Match Day 23 - St. Louis @ TFC Sat July 8 7:38pm Until Then, We'll Have to Muddle

[OgtheDim]

Through Somehow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKG5X0QMSWA&ab_channel=PakoChile

So have yourself, a Merry Little Christmas ....Now


************

Have at It People

[Red CB Toronto]

Whose in net, Thomas Romero I assume with El Salvador not getting out of the group stage at the Gold Cup? Think we really have seen enough of Greg Ranjitsingh after he gave up 10 goals in the last four losses.

[Ultra & Proud]

Let's see, high energy press against our random selection of players who haven't had enough data amassed for the analytics department to study. Possibly with Ranjitsingh in goal because nothing we ever do makes sense. I smell another problematic evening. Maybe 3-0 this time and another match with no shots on target for us.

[FootBallAZ]

this really sucks because at the very least as fans we should be able to enjoy summer time footy with cold drinks but the schedule gives us games july 1st and 8th and then august 20th.

i dont want to go which makes me mad because i froze my ass off earlier this year and now to finally have good weather for games and i wont go because of the on field product really bothers me.

[OgtheDim]

You know, I try to come up with a song each week that captures the moment .

I just might have outdone myself with the layers on this one.

I won't explain the art cause that would be crass.

But I'm proud of this one....

[jloome]

You know, I try to come up with a song each week that captures the moment .

I just might have outdone myself with the layers on this one.

I won't explain the art cause that would be crass.

But I'm proud of this one....

Judy Garland themes abound.

Wonder if we’ll see more fight with Ibarra rumoured to be coming in. Guys will know he’s not going to be the one fighting for a midfield spot.

[Red CB Toronto]

Still a lot of bodies missing from action.

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/358764279_768507911734688_2602252886585776552_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_eui2=AeGyJTGts9UB6_zIe6LMA_rftGEElEh6RzK0YQSUS HpHMr94iCP4qRyfZXKXPAM39eo&_nc_ohc=nkfDUbYZcuMAX-bnx2u&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=03_AdRNr0hn9-vCkmtOONPPiukaZYnvPw4UYtdKAdbDvxqprg&oe=64CEF0A4

[OgtheDim]

Toronto FC vs St. Louis CITY
BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
REF: Filip Dujic
AR1: Ian McKay
AR2: Gerard-Kader Lebuis
4TH: Michael Venne
VAR: Michael Radchuk
AVAR: Gjovalin Bori


&

Commentators

Tony Husband Ross Smith

[MikeForbes]

As mentioned in another thread, Ibarra is suspended for this game. We are likely down Insigne and for sure Bernie. Gonna be lambs to a slaughter.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Interesting perspective on spend correlation...

https://twitter.com/MattBakerSTL/status/1677160820126498818

[Mr. Inbetween]

Can only smile and giggle...

https://twitter.com/SomersJohnny/status/1677326122663526402

[Richard]

Can only smile and giggle...

https://twitter.com/SomersJohnny/status/1677326122663526402

Can we sign Gio off the street? Lol

[woolly]

Can we sign Gio off the street? Lol

No "Loan Expired" for Richie? Didnt even rate an "Int'l Duty" mention....

[Slick]

We'll get to watch Romero in net for the first time.

[Ultra & Proud]

We'll get to watch Romero in net for the first time.
Unless Terry decides Ranjitsingh is just too good to bench.

[Mr. Inbetween]

No "Loan Expired" for Richie? Didnt even rate an "Int'l Duty" mention....

Missed that! Good catch.

[spe18]

For those not already aware, there are changes to the entire Lakeshore line on GO Transit this weekend, including no train service west of Oakville.

https://www.gotransit.com/en/the-future-and-go/construction-notices/july-7-9-partial-bus-replacement-on-lakeshore-west-line?utm_source=lswworkblockpage&utm_medium=Homepagetile&utm_campaign=workblockLSWjuly7-9

[rydermike]

So TFC2 played today. Gavran played in net, so Romero should start tomorrow.
Pearlman and Batiz did not dress for TFC2, so I would assume they get signed to another short-term tomorrow.

[SenorDingDong]

Can only smile and giggle...

https://twitter.com/SomersJohnny/status/1677326122663526402

Diomande just the worst signing ever. 500k a year dude hasn't even played one full game.

[tfcfans]

Shockingly you can still get over 2.2-1 odds betting on St Louis (TFC is like 2.5 or so) - I have no idea how people think this game is actually close enough to make St Louis only a tiny favourite - I would probably bet the Over 2.5 total goals too but that’s assuming St.Louis will score 3 because I’m not sure how we are scoring a goal…..LOL

[OgtheDim]

If we could avoid the whole "pass back that goes right to their striker" thing, that would be a triumph - I think its 5 goals for them like that this year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Looking forward to watching a tire fire live. This has the possibility of some records being made. See y'all there!

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, nice night...watching some soccer....going to try to avoid watching the ball because that is just going to be painful.


What am I looking for tonight?


Romero - any good?


So how bad is O'Neill if Romero is not as bad as Rajitsingh.



Can Mabika work against a press?


So is Dunfield going to actually change ANYTHING or just keep to some strange plan which doesn't seem to be changing all that much?


Hows the offence do with neither Italians?


If Coello starts, who's he effective with?


Can a run of games without his fellow Italians around settle down Petretta?




This is ALL about 2024 now.

***********


I might spend time watching how St. Louis plays.

[Red CB Toronto]

Looking forward to watching a tire fire live. This has the possibility of some records being made. See y'all there!

Reminds me of when a field was actually set on fire burning disco records at a Chicago White Sox game back in 1979. Whom ever thought it was a good idea.

https://www.freep.com/gcdn/presto/2019/07/10/PDTF/82e81b24-f6d9-4d8c-82b1-bc7e93d17911-AP_75119267035.jpg?crop=3017,1695,x0,y0&width=660&height=372&format=pjpg&auto=webphttps://www.freep.com/gcdn/presto/2019/07/10/PDTF/82e81b24-f6d9-4d8c-82b1-bc7e93d17911-AP_75119267035.jpg?crop=3017,1695,x0,y0&width=660&height=372&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Disco Demolition Night - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Demolition_Night)

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1677717484420362242

[OgtheDim]

Somebody should figure out the record for short term signings from the B team in one year.

[ag futbol]

I’m glad we’re promoting upward to the first team. After all, we know the current senior squad can’t cut it. We need more youth players that have been brought up in a culture of success as demonstrated by TFC II averaging **checks notes** 0.88 PPG?

[ronzilla]

My prediction is my apple stream will be shut down at the 56th minute, and that's being generous.

On a positive note, Dunfield will have a much better lineup to work with next week.

There's still a glimpse of hope to turn this around. It IS still possible.

[SenorDingDong]

My prediction is my apple stream will be shut down at the 56th minute, and that's being generous.

On a positive note, Dunfield will have a much better lineup to work with next week.

There's still a glimpse of hope to turn this around. It IS still possible.

If they bring back Poz and sign a DP striker maybe. But we would be looking at having to win every single game.

[jloome]

St. Louis named MLS' "most watchable" team by ESPN. We were second last, ahead of Colorado. (Again, everyone in this league insists Robin Fraser is a genius. I've yet to see it. Another MLS 1.0 narrative, basically.)

[Ultra & Proud]

St. Louis named MLS' "most watchable" team by ESPN. We were second last, ahead of Colorado. (Again, everyone in this league insists Robin Fraser is a genius. I've yet to see it. Another MLS 1.0 narrative, basically.)

Just wait until the Rapids fire him and Manning offers him a 4 year contract. We will retake our throne from them.

[Bobo]

Sapong, my captain.

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1677810299036901376

[rydermike]

Sapong, my captain.
There must have really been some divisiveness with the Kaye/Bradley sons and the rest with Sapong being given the armband over Kaye

[OgtheDim]

Well that is weird but in the course of this season just going to surf that.

Good to see Romero starting - wish Coello was but oh well.

[rydermike]

Well that is weird but in the course of this season just going to surf that.

Good to see Romero starting - wish Coello was but oh well.

I guess Coello isn't fit enough yet for 90, especially after a mid-week game. I assume he'll come at at 45 (if the game isn't out of reach yet by then)

[OgtheDim]

The best thing about this game might be the uniform which is a great 3rd.

[SenorDingDong]

Kinda shocked Coello isn't starting

[OgtheDim]

You know.... Yes we are shit.

&

The amount of people here with smiling kids..... and all the steel pans

There are worse ways to spend a Saturday night.

[JoesphNdo]

No insigne even on the bench... official line is injury I assume?

[OgtheDim]

He was doubtful.


Last Tuesday, he was out.


Sometimes a guy out injured is just a guy out injured

[JoesphNdo]

He was doubtful.


Last Tuesday, he was out.


Sometimes a guy out injured is just a guy out injured

For sure. No conspiracies here, just wondering if we had a stated reason

[OgtheDim]

I'm thinking 19 k here

[jloome]

That shirt is dope.

[Bushmancan]

I don’t think I can remember less energy before a game in 15 years. FIRE MANNING!

[wopchop]

I'm thinking 19 k here

Lots of empty seats in the lower East stand for sure.

Jersey is cool.

[rydermike]

Lucky there. I wonder if he didn't give it because Sevania held his arm so Petretta didn't have it in an unnatural position, he was trying to pull his arm and couldn't.

[jloome]

No fucking way that was a penalty. Fuck both these announcers. It hits Servania, not Petretta. Petretta's arm is out but its BEHIND Servania's shoulder.

This is the same shit I was talking about in antoher thread. In any case of this involving Seattle (against LAFC just a few weeks ago) or an American club we get the commentators divided, or giving the benefit, or at least having a debate. With us, they're absolutely sure we're fucking guilty, even when they can't even properly see what's going on.

And why for a mistake that "must be clear and obvious" did that take so long?

Kind of bullshit, boys.

[OgtheDim]

Romero.... Decent

[Oldtimer]

How come Akinola is the best player right now?

[OgtheDim]

Their lack of a press is making this easier for us

[MikeForbes]

Definitely the better team so far.

[FiveThreeTwo]

JMR out here trying to show his liverpool trial form

[OgtheDim]

We seem to be better we without the Italians

[Bushmancan]

So nice to see a free kick into the box and not trying to score from 35 yards.

[oranje boven]

Kinda like our ball movement tonight… prob cause they’re not forced to give the ball to the Italians as soon as they get it.

[MikeForbes]

How many times have we played well in the first half and came out and got absolutely worked in the second half?

[rydermike]

I like Romero.
Thanks Bob. Too bad two of your three signings I like both play Keeper (and the third is Hedges)

[JoesphNdo]

JMR out here trying to show his liverpool trial form

Best player on the pitch for me. The talent is there, it's absolutely there, he does things nobody without an Italian passport can do on this team. He just shows it so rarely. But he's been quietly quite good today.

Given the line up that's a really nice performance over all. Maybe it's just low expectations but I'm happy enough with that, there's some signs of life.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, I expect them to adjust & beat us but not being embarrassed for 45 minutes is all we could have asked for

[Luanda]

we seem to be better we without the italians

you said it!

[OgtheDim]

And here comes the rain

[FiveThreeTwo]

Best player on the pitch for me. The talent is there, it's absolutely there, he does things nobody without an Italian passport can do on this team. He just shows it so rarely. But he's been quietly quite good today.

Given the line up that's a really nice performance over all. Maybe it's just low expectations but I'm happy enough with that, there's some signs of life.

yeah. maybe he just needs to be put into his natural position and be allowed to learn and grow. Maybe just lacked the confidence to go forward on things before this point when stakes were higher or Italian DP's and MB4 were always there with their presence to bark over bad plays.

Maybe he can keep building on it

[rydermike]

Of course. Down 1-0

[rydermike]

Coello in for Servania

[jloome]

Coello desperately pointing to Franklin and JMR to play forward, not back.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, I'll take Coello over Servania

MAK takes an extra touch too many almost every time

[jloome]

Kobe Franklin does not know how to go forward. He actually passed backwards there despite an empty lane for 20 yards right in front of him.

[rydermike]

Can Jesus (Batiz) save us

[OgtheDim]

MAK - where forward movement stops

[MikeForbes]

Too gassed out from a funeral to see this through to the end. Maybe me tuning out will encourage the boys to score one of those things the other teams always score against us. Forget what they are called, but they seem to result in wins.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I just wanna add that if Coello was american and was on a US club, he'd be getting foamed at by Doyle and all the other dudes who could never manage out of a paper bag but arm chair cite every analytics number in the playbook.

He's a jackson Yeuill, paxton pomykal and any of those ball moving mid types and they often will never shut up about ( and never not name drop being young gun midfielders). This guy? Coello? you won't hear a peep despite being friggan ice cold when he receives the ball and puts in really good spaces... considering he came from the college system/ with a touch of spanish academy

[jloome]

Six players behind the ball on a free kick in their end, and they have to be directed by Coello to get into the fucking box. Unbelievable.

We have so many young players with skill and technique, but poor fundamentals and no actual recognition of how to play football. It's astounding.

[jloome]

What the fuck was Pearlman doing there?

(And excellent as he generally is, Coello's backpass there was bananas stupid, to start all that.)

[FiveThreeTwo]

Seems like there's a lot of baptism by fire out there with the youths lol.

[jloome]

I mean, our central defender is being mugged over the back and it isn't called, passes it to another central defender where they do the same and it ends up a corner...

And that basically started with shitty officiating. Man, they've missed a lot both ways today.

[jloome]

Coello's frantically signalling Koby to toss it into the box, and instead he goes short despite not really having a guy there yet. I just...

[ronzilla]

Dunfield getting the most of what he has. Great effort. Unlucky.

I was expecting a mauling.

[jloome]

Well... that one stung a little. Played okay, just too many guys who shouldn't be out there. Central defenders were generally poor, MAK was poor, Kerr was quite poor, Franklin made a lot of very weak decisions and stalled a lot going forward.

The rest played well.

Just a game of inches today, no one quite good enough to bury a chance.

[OgtheDim]

Not embarrassed

Not good enough

But not embarrassed

[FiveThreeTwo]

Make no doubt about it tho - we play a much more diverse game when the italians aren't out there.

Do you play them for the small chance we can improve scoring chances and opportunity for a win or tie... or do ya just keep trotting out the kids as long as dunfield is here so they can do a good prospect dive of their system and see who can grow and step up or who just is never gonna be ready. The kids tonight weren't that bad, considering what we've had in prior weeks lol- but be nice to have a single youth or striker who just knows how to run past defenders in the odd channel run lol.

[Smokecell]

We’re a free 3 points. That’s all there is to say.

Our goalless streak is worthy of the whole league laughing at us.

[jloome]

He had them working well and playing hard, but our lineup just isn't good enough right now.

I do wonder why he took off Akinola when he was our most dangerous player tonight by a mile. Maybe he looked leggy, but Sapong was offering nothing and would've made more sense.

[JoesphNdo]

We're not great but Dunfield is unlucky to be 0 for 3. He's improved us in some small ways even with almost nobody available to him. I don't think he's the answer long term at all but he's done okay

[benito]

TFC gave it a good effort tonight. A draw seemed justified but didn’t work out that way.

[jloome]

TFC gave it a good effort tonight. A draw seemed justified but didn’t work out that way.

One thing was clear tonight: they know what he wants. Get the ball wide, put it into the box, crash the box. It's not sophisticated but if we had even one good striker we probably walk out of that one with a point.

For a team missing so many starters, we really did okay. I think the big remaining problem is that we clearly don't have a consistent scorer. A top-level striker, a starter like Vasquez or Giakoumakis or Benteke, buries at least one of those crosses today.

I thought Ayo played really quite well. He was all over them. It was a good sign.

I mean... I'm just going to say it, Terry Dunfield generally impresses me. I don't agree with a few things and I'm pretty sure they'll go for someone with more experience, but this season feels like a wash. If they got a good striker but couldn't get the man they wanted to run the show, I wouldn't feel terrible with him getting a longer look, with more starters.

I think he's doing some things for longer-term dividends, like holding back Coello tonight and getting Bartiz out onto the pitch when Ayo was doing well. Also not sure putting in two young and quite skittish-looking defenders in late was such a wise move and it almost cost us a goal.

But he wants them ready to play.

I like that he seems to have simplified their approach and made them all play more directly. This league doesn't really thrive much on possession minutes, let's face it.

[Prof]

TFC gave it a good effort tonight. A draw seemed justified but didn’t work out that way.

Agreed. They are finally playing as a team. Keep Bernadeschi and Insigne on the bench. Kids are playing well, but unlucky.

[los sonadores]

Romero looked really good, like a real keeper which we haven’t had the past few matches. That gives us something of a chance.

Otherwise, it is what what it is. If we had a good striker we might’ve earned a draw. The kit was probably the strongest thing about the night. Not that I want to see it every night but most of our kits right from the beginning have been drab or ugly. This has flair.

[los sonadores]

Agreed. They are finally playing as a team. Keep Bernadeschi and Insigne on the bench. Kids are playing well, but unlucky.

Not very unlucky and I don’t see this roster (as it was tonight) winning too many at all.

We’ve been obsessing over the Italians but let’s not get carried away. Without them (and others) we look like a last place team or close to it.

[Smokecell]

I feel for Dunfield. He’s going to leave this as nothing more than the answer to a trivia question as the only coach to never win for TFC.

[MikeForbes]

Too gassed out from a funeral to see this through to the end. Maybe me tuning out will encourage the boys to score one of those things the other teams always score against us. Forget what they are called, but they seem to result in wins.

Turns out they could not.

[ManUtd4ever]

Despite the result, I thought the team looked much more dangerous last night with the kids in the lineup and the DPs on the sidelines.

[Bushmancan]

I feel for Dunfield. He’s going to leave this as nothing more than the answer to a trivia question as the only coach to never win for TFC.

I dont think so… next week we have Ibarra, Oso back, Johnson maybe (but regardless, Romero was good) and we play Chicago. Probably still no Italians so the work ethic and team play will be there.

[jloome]

Not very unlucky and I don’t see this roster (as it was tonight) winning too many at all.

We’ve been obsessing over the Italians but let’s not get carried away. Without them (and others) we look like a last place team or close to it.

AS one Tweeter pointed out, we had a $5M team on the field tonight, 2007 budget.

[SenorDingDong]

I'm not sure how anyone watching that game doesn't immediately say - let's use the same plan but put Berna as #9.

We actually had a decent attacking effort. Insigne also can put balls in the box.


Do the same thing but rest Sapong and try Berna.

Otherwise good game from Romero and a good shift for most against one of the best teams in MLS.

[buddies]

I'm not sure how anyone watching that game doesn't immediately say - let's use the same plan but put Berna as #9.

We actually had a decent attacking effort. Insigne also can put balls in the box.


Do the same thing but rest Sapong and try Berna.

Otherwise good game from Romero and a good shift for most against one of the best teams in MLS.

To be honest I don't think he wants that role. He's moved into the middle of the park enough this year that if he really wanted to be the striker he'd cheat. He'd move 10 yards further up the park whenever the ball got into interesting locations and he'd be sniffing that ball out if it came into the box. He hasn't done that. He's more than capable I but I think what we need is both Bernardeschi and Insigne playing the role that got them into the Italian National Team. They weren't relied on as goal scorers. They were relied on as dependable wingers who can get the ball into a goal scorer. I remember back when we had Giovinco and Altidore playing at their peak for us. If you took one out of the lineup it closed the space available for the other. Other teams could focus on the one guy and he was less effective. We've got two quality wingers on either side of the park. We can't stop there! We need to go all in and find a quality striker to compliment guys like Osorio in the midfield who get themselves into good spots when the ball comes into the box. Add that one component and I think both Italians will shine in the role that got them where they got to in Italy.

[Super]

The football gods will continue to punish us for our disrespect of the sport itself by not having a striker to enter the season. Now we have seen the result of playing without a striker. Sure, some people might argue that some of these so-called strikers on our team are strikers, but strikers score goals, and we have none of those. Next season, and all future seasons, please remember: start the season with a striker. Rule number one! You want a DP? Get a striker. You want a second DP? Get a second striker. You want a third DP? Maybe an attacking midfielder if you already have 2 amazing strikers. Let's never, ever repeat a season this bad again.

Also, please, for the love of everything holy, stop saying Berna and Insigne will score our goals. They never did, they don't, they never will. They're not strikers. We knew that when we signed them. Their role is to create chances for strikers, except we don't have any, hence why we're the dumbest club in the league.

[reggie]

the boys played hard and were unlikely not to get at least get a draw,man this team cant get a bounce,another reason im not renewing other than manning is this go tunnel crap.it was a disaster last night, 17 years of this shit and they cant fix this

[ag futbol]

Watched this one on replay. Generally liked what I saw.

- Really good performance from JMR (although in fairness they left his flank fairly open at times). On another day I think he might get a goal in somewhere. Not a fullback, stupid that we spent so much time playing him back there. Would like to see how he does centrally playing behind the strikers. That might be a good look.
- That’s an improved performance from Akinola. Something to build on but the kid has to bang in some goals.
- I like that Terry actually got players forward into the box. That was something we never saw under Bob.
- Coello should definitely be starting. Kaye should definitely be sitting.
- Only negative I will say is there’s no reason why you need to try youth players like Adam Perlman at MLS level. He looked completely out of his depth and they should be able to see that in practice too.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, we are always slightly more decent against a non pressing side.


Which is maybe 1 out of 4 teams in this league.

[ag futbol]

Yeh, we are always slightly more decent against a non pressing side.


Which is maybe 1 out of 4 teams in this league.
Yeah, but they have that crazy “your defenders will back pass to us” thing. Happened several times, just never quite got burnt by it.

I would like to know what the secret sauce is on that.

[jloome]

Yeah, but they have that crazy “your defenders will back pass to us” thing. Happened several times, just never quite got burnt by it.

I would like to know what the secret sauce is on that.

I do notice that in most cases, the man they pass to is fairly static.

It's like because the defender isn't actively pressing with the rest, but instead is "marking out" the high central zone, they don't register that he's defending.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I'm thinking 19 k here

Agree, or less! Was there too. Definitely not...

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1678071230505668608

https://i.imgflip.com/36ypb4.jpg

[stevep]

AS one Tweeter pointed out, we had a $5M team on the field tonight, 2007 budget.

Divide by 2 for realistic cost
$5M is fiction. Mlse mls bullshit

[OgtheDim]

Agree, or less! Was there too. Definitely not...

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1678071230505668608

https://i.imgflip.com/36ypb4.jpg



Not sure what that 26K was but I was thinking about 22 in the end - each section was 2/3 full.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
I will quibble. Think you are being generous. Definitely under 20K.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I thought Romero was alright. Needs to work on his distribution and sweeper keeper actions.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Given the players at disposal, it was the best TFC match in the last... I dunno how many tries.
But it's essential to mention that St Louis did not press.

TFC historically cannot play against pressing teams, so... this "best match" must be taken with a huge grain of salt.
I would say any team's coach who does not play pressing against TFC is an idiot (especially in Toronto), or he knows that his team simply cannot play pressing.

PS: Romero looks like a very decent keeper!

[613reppingTFC]

^ Is it fair to say that he could also just be that confident that he is playing against a weaker much depleted team that he thinks they will pick up a win without requiring a press away from home, and a mid week game against LAFC coming up?

You are right though, I was at the game and they did very well in the first 45 to hold them off and got a bunch of chances created. I know it's simple but having balls whipped into the box is something we aren't doing with Insigne and Berna on the field. They looked okay that game and never seemed out of it until some of the clumsy errors in the last 10 mins with those younger subs

[Canary10]

I thought we worked hard, which is at least a big improvement. Deserved better in that game.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Glad we got the St Louis fan out of the Supporters section unscathed prematch. He was clueless. Just born.