Messi discussion thread

[Oldtimer]

A place to discuss all things Messi.

[Oldtimer]

Miami apparently in talks to hire Tata Martino. Imagine hiring a manager to match your star player in style instead of hiring a manager whose style wastes your star player's potential. What a concept! Maybe TFC could learn from Miami about how to handle things when you hire an expensive DP.

Not that I expect Miami to do well this year while sanctions for breaking MLS salary rules are in effect. But next year a manager like Tata could rebuild the squad around Messi.

[RealG-TFC]

I wonder if they get to have five DPs again like thier inaugural season but this time that gets covered up and swept under the rug.

[MikeForbes]

Looks like Messi is trying to bring some more friends.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666636821734801408?s=20

[SenorDingDong]

Looks like Messi is trying to bring some more friends.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666636821734801408?s=20

So does every team get 4-5 DP slots now?

[Ultra & Proud]

So does every team get 4-5 DP slots now?
The rumor is it will be 5 and there will be more changes to go with that.


But I will say this; letting Messi fill Miami with his old man buddies (Suarez, Busquets, Fabregas, Di Maria) will fail. This isn't an old man league and I figure they'll figure that out in a year or so.

Let them have their Messi, Di Maria, & Tata. As long as we have Bill, Bob, & Akinola we're good.

[SenorDingDong]

The rumor is it will be 5 and there will be more changes to go with that.


But I will say this; letting Messi fill Miami with his old man buddies (Suarez, Busquets, Fabregas, Di Maria) will fail. This isn't an old man league and I figure they'll figure that out in a year or so.

Let them have their Messi, Di Maria, & Tata. As long as we have Bill, Bob, & Akinola we're good.

If they truly get all 5 of them, it might work as that's like half of a starting 11. Least for 45 min a game or so.
Otherwise yes I agree, its kind of been proven over and over again that aging Europe stars tend to really underperform in MLS.

The second tier type players are the ones who seem to shine. (Benteke, Giovinco, Pozuelo) etc.

[Canary10]

The rumor is it will be 5 and there will be more changes to go with that.


But I will say this; letting Messi fill Miami with his old man buddies (Suarez, Busquets, Fabregas, Di Maria) will fail. This isn't an old man league and I figure they'll figure that out in a year or so.

Let them have their Messi, Di Maria, & Tata. As long as we have Bill, Bob, & Akinola we're good.

Will certainly be interesting....

[OgtheDim]

So lots of English people calling MLS a retirement league

I'm struggling to figure out who beyond Insigne & now Messi are European players now here late in their careers.

[SenorDingDong]

So lots of English people calling MLS a retirement league

I'm struggling to figure out who beyond Insigne & now Messi are European players now here late in their careers.

Insigne isn't even that old, he joined the league at 31. In Footy terms, with all the professional care nowadays that still pretty prime age. Michael Bradley at 31 was going to MLS Cup final. Much different then bringing in guys like Busquets, Suarez, Messi etc who are joining the league at 35. 36.

[Canary10]

So lots of English people calling MLS a retirement league

I'm struggling to figure out who beyond Insigne & now Messi are European players now here late in their careers.

Chiellini. Zava

[Mr. Inbetween]

...But I will say this; letting Messi fill Miami with his old man buddies (Suarez, Busquets, Fabregas, Di Maria) will fail. This isn't an old man league and I figure they'll figure that out in a year or so. Let them have their Messi, Di Maria, & Tata. As long as we have Bill, Bob, & Akinola we're good.

Agree, while the club may not initially be realistically built to win it all, it would be much more competitive, entertaining, and marketable than it has ever been. I expect after an initial honeymoon phase, the realization to tinker towards a championship will prevail. Without question such moves, if they happen, will need, the balance offered, to be off-set, by an outstanding supporting cast. They will also depend on each pal's spend/likely contribution. Speculation by a few who shall not be named is that Tata is confirmed, so he has experience to handle this, but it is always a challenge for a conductor and his concertmaster to lead that kind of orchestra. BTW, rumours Griezmann wants in also.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Chiellini. Zava

Give you Chiellini, I'll even throw in a Bale. But a Zava, never, his avocados are massive! :)

[Prof]

If they truly get all 5 of them, it might work as that's like half of a starting 11. Least for 45 min a game or so.
Otherwise yes I agree, its kind of been proven over and over again that aging Europe stars tend to really underperform in MLS.

The second tier type players are the ones who seem to shine. (Benteke, Giovinco, Pozuelo) etc.

You are absolutely correct. The only big name players to shine in the MLS was Zlatan and Henry. All the rest were mediocre at best, where the 2nd tier players still had the desire to prove their worth.

[Canary10]

Give you Chiellini, I'll even throw in a Bale. But a Zava, never, his avocados are massive! :)

He came out of retirement with LAFC. Did you miss that?

[Bushmancan]

I would not be surprised or necessarily think it would be a bad idea… MLS will come out with a limited edition #10 Messi shirt for every team. Cannot retire #10 league wide, like NHL and Gretzky. But i think a special #10 Shirt would sell.

I am not overly optimistic that he is going to blow the doors off of the league… he still needs a supporting cast but it will be pretty awesome to see him play. We need a TFC v Miami roadtrip thread set up.

[ag futbol]

I think Miami has two options.
1) if you go the old players route, you get a good coach that understands tactics and that you hope your superior movement and understanding of the game exposes MLS’s positional weaknesses. Pray everyone stays healthy because once you get past the first 11, the team will struggle to pull that tactic off. Or…

2) have a lot of guys who are typical for MLS. Make sure they can get Messi the ball in the right positions to do what he does best…

If they get stuck in the middle on this they’ll get frustrated, out paced, and be ineffective.

You also have to hope Messi stays in good shape. You never know when age catches up to you this late in your career…

[CorrwgBach]

I do love a great Geriatricos team.

[jloome]

I do love a great Geriatricos team.

Unpopular opinion: I suspect Messi will be far less effective in MLS than people expect.

He's always been a great individual technician but as he's aged he's become more about interplay, quick passing, setting other guys up.

But Miami's team is shit. And this league is all about shutting down individual play as quickly as possible. And he's lost a few steps.

One of the reasons our two guys are struggling is they were never the types to beat three guys and set themselves up, ala Giovinco or Pozuelo. They're both quick, technically brilliant. But their mind isn't used to multiple dudes closing them down instantly, always challenging physically, never marking off.

Messi of even three years ago, none of that is an issue, because he's BOTH types of player. Now, he may end up being the most expensive set up man in history.

I guess we'll get to see how good a finisher Campana is. He looks pretty good to me. But I wouldn't be surprised if Craig Forrest is right and Messi's age doesn't show a bit. If he winds up with 12 goals and 15 assists, it'll still be a great season by MLS standards, but fans will be underwhelmed.

MLS doesn't lose either way; if it's tougher than he thought, after he just led Argentina to a world cup and scored 16 in France, it makes MLS look like a higher standard. If he just keeps on trucking, he brings in curious outsiders.

But a 35-year-old guy who scores 16 in a technically supportive, more balanced team of high achievers is not necessarily going to get that when Benjamin Cremaschi and Harvey Neville are supplying them.

[jloome]

I do love a great Geriatricos team.

Under 30s do well, over 30s generally do not.

(Lampard is the one major exception but he only played about 15 games of each of his two years.)

[ensco]

Unpopular opinion: I suspect Messi will be far less effective in MLS than people expect.

He's always been a great individual technician but as he's aged he's become more about interplay, quick passing, setting other guys up.

But Miami's team is shit. And this league is all about shutting down individual play as quickly as possible. And he's lost a few steps.

One of the reasons our two guys are struggling is they were never the types to beat three guys and set themselves up, ala Giovinco or Pozuelo. They're both quick, technically brilliant. But their mind isn't used to multiple dudes closing them down instantly, always challenging physically, never marking off.

Messi of even three years ago, none of that is an issue, because he's BOTH types of player. Now, he may end up being the most expensive set up man in history.

I guess we'll get to see how good a finisher Campana is. He looks pretty good to me. But I wouldn't be surprised if Craig Forrest is right and Messi's age doesn't show a bit. If he winds up with 12 goals and 15 assists, it'll still be a great season by MLS standards, but fans will be underwhelmed.

MLS doesn't lose either way; if it's tougher than he thought, after he just led Argentina to a world cup and scored 16 in France, it makes MLS look like a higher standard. If he just keeps on trucking, he brings in curious outsiders.

But a 35-year-old guy who scores 16 in a technically supportive, more balanced team of high achievers is not necessarily going to get that when Benjamin Cremaschi and Harvey Neville are supplying them.

I think this is a sophisticated argument, I will make a simpler one.

I watched him in person at a game in Qatar - I had good seats, and for 45 minutes he was right in front of me. He walked the entire game, with very limited exceptions. He will score some goals, but he will not be amongst the 5-10 most impactful players in MLS. He will have many of the same problems Insigne has, he won't get the ball in spaces where he will be able to create enough 1v1

But does it matter? We get to see a deity, even if he is, now, in decline.

[jloome]

But does it matter? We get to see a deity, even if he is, now, in decline.

Only to Miami fans. The rest of the league gets to see the skills and MLS can't lose from either narrative.

EDIT: And Miami can't really lose commercially; they gained FIVE MILLION instagram followers in one day yesterday, instantly making them the most followed professional team in U.S. sports other than a few in the NBA.

[Mr. Inbetween]

... I watched him in person at a game in Qatar - I had good seats, and for 45 minutes he was right in front of me. He walked the entire game, with very limited exceptions... But does it matter? We get to see a deity, even if he is, now, in decline.

Yes... but 'the walk' is a very old dig at, knock about, Messi. Probably started around the half-way mark of his professional career; IIRC, perhaps early 2010's? The counters are many. A few... the obvious, he adjusted his play as a strategy/tactic to keep himself playing-longevity and playing the full match. The simplest, he is technically experienced and superior enough to know when to engage/run. The sophisticated, my favourite, some have suggested and that I read, the walking, particularly immediately at the start of a the match is a sign of his intelligence, that he is assessing for himself, which allows him to judge the pitch, his opponents and the spaces available. That is why, they say, he has scored the least amount of his goals throughout his career in the first 15 minutes of the match.

[FootBallAZ]

Inquired about season tickets .

They are moving to bigger stadium that is still under construction

They are trying to reduce scalping so will be making tickets non transferable.

200 usd/ga deposit

500 usd/premium- which will include food, drinks and parking.



Still have no solid numbers on season prices as they are still running the numbers.


The way we got around this in qatar was share login and password for whoever was going - still a risk too.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Only to Miami fans. The rest of the league gets to see the skills and MLS can't lose from either narrative.

EDIT: And Miami can't really lose commercially; they gained FIVE MILLION instagram followers in one day yesterday, instantly making them the most followed professional team in U.S. sports other than a few in the NBA.

Follow-up... MLS/Apple/Addidas must be giddy as..., reviewing their conversion tactics and strategies...

BTW, unbelievable, it is at 6.7 Million Followers now!

Reports are that all their tickets, to the rest of their matches, are now sold out. Not sure about the credibility of these reports, since there is also chatter about moving temporarily to another, larger, stadium?

https://twitter.com/usmntonly/status/1666810472363085825

[Richard]

But can Messi do it on a cold, rainy night in Columbus Ohio?

MLS will now become the WWE for the next couple years, the red carpet and more will be pulled out, watch for A LOT of favoritism from the refs, anyone breaths on Messi it will be a foul. Good luck to defenders.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Pal 'Chomper' out!?

https://twitter.com/BarcaUniversal/status/1667063144781426691

[jloome]

Pal 'Chomper' out!?

https://twitter.com/BarcaUniversal/status/1667063144781426691


And Miami already has three other DPs under contract. They'll have to deal Pizzaro or Josef Martinez, or buy Campana down somehow or trade him.

[Smokecell]

And Miami already has three other DPs under contract. They'll have to deal Pizzaro or Josef Martinez, or buy Campana down somehow or trade him.

On that note, I thought their captain Gregore was a DP too, but I’m not 100% sure.

[jloome]

On that note, I thought their captain Gregore was a DP too, but I’m not 100% sure.

You are correct. Campana is a young DP. That's even more a problem, as they can't have all three DPs above the TAM cap or they lose the U22 spot.

So they'll have to buy out either Pizarro or Josef Martinez.

[Ultra & Proud]

You are correct. Campana is a young DP. That's even more a problem, as they can't have all three DPs above the TAM cap or they lose the U22 spot.

So they'll have to buy out either Pizarro or Josef Martinez.

Rumor is they will buy out Pizarro but Campagna also on the way out because they (Messi) want 3 DPs above the TAM threshold. If I were TFC I would look at a deal for Campagna somehow. Then dump Akinola.

[Yuushalinsky]

I'm looking slightly ahead to next year - there is no way that they're not going to throw the other owners a bone after making everyone contribute to the Messi fund in terms of competitiveness.

[woolly]

It's going to be interesting to see how Messi feels about playing in some of the shit stadiums of the MLS... Both NY sites come to mind and the crap turf in Vancouver, Houston in July, etc..

My guess is that those games will be "Load management"

On the other hand...if they force those stadiums to upgrade in order to not embarrass the league on a global scale, I'm totally on board with that.

[benito]

It will be interesting what happens in Miami with regards to the stadium too. DoDo they continue in their temp stadium or do they move some games to Hard Rock stadium for increased capacity?

[Mr. Inbetween]

It will be interesting what happens in Miami with regards to the stadium too. DoDo they continue in their temp stadium or do they move some games to Hard Rock stadium for increased capacity?

IIUC, rumours are The HRS solution is on the table, being discussed and considered; likely.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I don’t disagree withh all of that but the principle is what’s wrong. When MLS changed all the rules for Beckham they brought in the DP rule to at least give teams in theory equal ability to bring it that kind of player. Are we going to move to one league sponsored and paid for player per team now?


Yeah what's next....having a team where the father is the coach and the son is the captain? But seriously....I agree with you. League sponsors providing funding for one team's DP is crap.

I understand the sponsorship concern. It's a grey area, fraught with conflicts of interests. However, for myself, there is a difference, unique sets of concerns, between a league sponsorship and league sponsors providing more funding to one clubs DP over another; as a separate but favouring initiative; marketing deal. IIUC, in the latter instance, I suspect Nike is similarly involved in the NFL, MLB and NBA. I believe that Messi already is/was sponsorship engaged by Adidas. The league/all other clubs sponsorship nee contribution is troubling. However, maybe those contributions are not what we speculate-direct or as overwhelming as presumed; For instance, perhaps instead of any jersey profit pooling, I-Miami/Messi gets a greater slice/additional points on those/their sales.

By most accounts any deal is 'complicated'. Possibly as much as $150M over the contract, supposedly 2 1/2 years with option for 2026? Again, by most accounts, his earnings involve salary, bonuses/marketing components and equity. It has also been widely reported Adidas and Apple were offering profit sharing in their initiatives of merchandising and/or subscriptions.

I do think it is still early days; the fine details being unknown. For myself, even $150M for 2 1/2 years seems conservative; $60M a year? By my own rough cost thoughts gamed out it's easy @ $134M/YR...

1/ IMCF/MLS 'Official' (laugh track here) Salary, league highest token award @ $10M/YR Guar/Comp.
2/ Equity @ 35% or $200M on a now nonsense $600M valuation = $66M/YR.
2/ Apple MLSSP profit sharing with ads. A MJorden 5% on $80 Sub/Yr on a global 1% of 450M Insta conversion is 4.5M subscribers by $4 = $18M/YR.
3/ A Beckham like Adidas/IMCF merchandise deal... jerseys like at MLS Store, at club/stadium and et al. @ conservatively $10M/YR.
5/ Best in sector, all media campaigns/commercial ads for a credit card/bank, car, fast food establishment, soft drink, etc, saturation contolled 10 spots a year @ conservatively $2.5M/PER/YR = $25M/YR.
6/ MLS/FIFA League/WC media campaigns @ $5M/YR.

[Prof]

It's going to be interesting to see how Messi feels about playing in some of the shit stadiums of the MLS... Both NY sites come to mind and the crap turf in Vancouver, Houston in July, etc..

My guess is that those games will be "Load management"

On the other hand...if they force those stadiums to upgrade in order to not embarrass the league on a global scale, I'm totally on board with that.

Not sure where you are getting your facts from, but Red Bull Arena is probably one of the best SSS in America.

[jloome]

Not sure where you are getting your facts from, but Red Bull Arena is probably one of the best SSS in America.

NYFC has used two temporary homes, may be referring to that.

[ensco]

Interesting. The Extratime guys are kind of nervous about this being a headfake. Messi saying he intends to sign in Miami is not the same thing as signing in Miami.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Until the MLS contract is signed by Messi, not even an agreement with the agent, his father, matters in the end. And till then, the 'hijack' is always in play...

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/10-of-the-biggest-transfer-hijacks-of-all-time-mikel-petit-gascoigne/

[Richard]

Has Don Garber confirmed?

It would be an extremely bad look on all parties involved if this fell through.

[Mr. Inbetween]

AFAIK, no Don Garber/MLS official 'it's done' confirmation. Just this...

https://twitter.com/thesoccerdon/status/1666858663791800340

[OgtheDim]

Until the MLS contract is signed by Messi, not even an agreement with the agent, his father, matters in the end. And till then, the 'hijack' is always in play...

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/10-of-the-biggest-transfer-hijacks-of-all-time-mikel-petit-gascoigne/

Money is not the issue here so it would take something extremely stupid for him to got to KSA.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Exactly, that is the point. Bankruptlona may still find a way!

[Richard]

Exactly, that is the point. Bankruptlona may still find a way!

Nah. I dont think Barcelona actually wants him back, at least not anyone below the board level, I think they are trying to appease fans by trying to sign him.

Xavi is more than fine working with his young players than trying to change his system by accommodating an aging Messi.

[woolly]

NYFC has used two temporary homes, may be referring to that.

Sorry, I was thinking of Gilette stadium, not RB Stsdium

[Mr. Inbetween]

Nah. I dont think Barcelona actually wants him back, at least not anyone below the board level, I think they are trying to appease fans by trying to sign him. Xavi is more than fine working with his young players than trying to change his system by accommodating an aging Messi.

Fair. The 'just going through the motions' is one of the reasonable narratives. However, if they were trying to appease the Cules, than why diss Messi with that goodbye-so long-farwell parting statement? Another approach seemed warranted. I think Barca-the business needed Messi at this moment more than most think. Mal tempum adventum/bad times coming. He would be the transitional (father) figure (head) of calm in their sea of financial turmoils and any pending upcoming SuperLeague decisions or fall-out.

[TFC1986]

Anyone know through the "league cup" if we would possibly be able to play Miami.
The cost of these tickets are quite high, and I would have 100% opted out. But now with Messi in Miami. Just curious to know if it could be a possibility.

[wopchop]

Anyone know through the "league cup" if we would possibly be able to play Miami.
The cost of these tickets are quite high, and I would have 100% opted out. But now with Messi in Miami. Just curious to know if it could be a possibility.
Unlikely, see link: https://www.leaguescup.com/news/2023-match-schedule-and-bracket-announcement

On the knockout, we have to get through the other east group winners before we would face the winner of all the south group winners.

Getting through Group stage and three knockout rounds is a big ask for these Toronto and Miami teams.

[OgtheDim]

That and we are the second lowest ranked team - we only could have a home game if somehow we met DCU.

[Mr. Inbetween]

BA... 'Messi is good for the league'...

https://twitter.com/TommyQuinlan_IV/status/1667911980978429952

[Mr. Inbetween]

Neymar Jr. may be being targeted by the KSA/Al-Hilal, but where does he happen to be? In Miami, at the Miami Heat game!

[Luanda]

Neymar Jr. may be being targeted by the KSA/Al-Hilal, but where does he happen to be? In Miami, at the Miami Heat game!

There is a large Brazilian community in Miami.

[Mr. Inbetween]

There is a large Brazilian community in Miami.

Pompano Beach baby! Boat Drinks!

[ensco]

Vini Jr and Pogba were also there. Shakira too (she is apparently dating Jimmy Butler, so a special case).

International hipsters dig the NBA Finals, when it's in a place like Miami.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Even Vini Jr. 'knows the score'... :)

https://twitter.com/FCBSiddu/status/1667568559030149120

[FiveThreeTwo]

If/when he does sign, and if/when Tata signs on as coach what are the odds Messi's allowed to provide some influence on coaching/assistant manager decisions?

Think we see Aguero take the opportunity to get back around the pitch and football again and be an assistant mgr/coach under Tata? His buddy and family in town now with him in Miami - perfect opportunity to be around the field and dip toes into coaching. Unless he loves his twitch streamer/memer gig now too much to commit to that type of thing lol. Might be worth a punt tho even as a way for him to be around their younger forwards/strikers, or potential other Argentinian youth transfers lol

[Canary10]

Do you think Miami took the approach of stressing all the unique challenges of MLS when trying to lure him there? The more I read about this the more I can see this souring really quickly.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Do you think Miami took the approach of stressing all the unique challenges of MLS when trying to lure him there? The more I read about this the more I can see this souring really quickly.


Naw, cause it's Magic City baby...

https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1667929319820206081

[OgtheDim]

Unique problems Messi will face


Refs
Travel
Weather
Pitches
Tactics
Quality of play of his teammates
Interviews
Weird roster rules (he's always been on a team that could buy what it needed)


Now, I can imagine him dealing with most of that


Could in no way imagine Ronaldo doing so

[Mr. Inbetween]

Unique problems Messi will face... Could in no way imagine Ronaldo doing so

Funny you should mention that name. A few social media rumours circulating that CR7 now wants to come, is coming, to MLS by next season.

[ensco]

Unique problems Messi will face


Refs
Travel
Weather
Pitches
Tactics
Quality of play of his teammates
Interviews
Weird roster rules (he's always been on a team that could buy what it needed)


Now, I can imagine him dealing with most of that


Could in no way imagine Ronaldo doing so

I would bet money that Messi is going full load management here. I certainly expect him to skip most longer flights, and any trip to a turf stadium.

[OgtheDim]

I would bet money that Messi is going full load management here. I certainly expect him to skip most longer flights, and any trip to a turf stadium.

Bruce Arena made a good point the other day - there's only 3 turf fields in the East - he's going to play in front of 73k in Atlanta for sure.

Now, is going to play @ NER next season where it would be 65K or Carolina - 75K (larger then Atlanta) on "Decision day"? I think so

Will he fly out to Portland? Not sure


This year, his away trips will be LAFC, Cinci, New Jersey, Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte.

[ensco]

^Obviously I am just guessing here, but I think his biggest single objective will be to be a decent active player in 2026, and not just be in the 26 but be a contributor to Argentina at the next World Cup.

The marketing power in the strategy of what he is trying to do requires him to still be good three years from now. This is true for MLS also, so the league has incentives not just to allow this, but to encourage it!

So I think, in pursuit of that, he will do unique things that seem “crazy”. Such as skipping Atlanta games.

[MikeForbes]

Inter Barcelona FC

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1668645706955988993?s=20

[JoesphNdo]

Inter Barcelona FC

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1668645706955988993?s=20

As a supporter of a rival team, this 'sign all of Messis old friends' is pure upside for us, I love it. We get the financial boost from attendance when theyr'e here and, hopefully, success of the Apple TV deal but share a conference with a team that will be ill equipped to become any kind of dominant force if they sign more of these players

Love seeing this news, basically.

[Ultra & Proud]

As a supporter of a rival team, this 'sign all of Messis old friends' is pure upside for us, I love it. We get the financial boost from attendance when theyr'e here and, hopefully, success of the Apple TV deal but share a conference with a team that will be ill equipped to become any kind of dominant force if they sign more of these players

Love seeing this news, basically.

Same here. LA Galaxy syndrome in full effect. Keep it coming Miami.

Now if only we had someone in charge of our team that could take advantage of any new roster flexibility without tying stacks of cash to anchors to sink forever.

Or else try to get Campagna off of them for someone like Akinola or O'Neill.

[Mr. Inbetween]

It's Oprah Time for Miami... and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami! Heck even that broken down retiree, el companero Kun, is now in on this absurdist fun; enjoying the Messi moment...

https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1667880133271625729

[jloome]

It's Oprah Time for Miami... and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami! Heck even that broken down retiree, el companero Kun, is now in on this absurdist fun; enjoying the Messi moment...

https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1667880133271625729

So he's... a TAM player?

Even before Messi gets there they have three DPs. Now they have to free up two of those spots? Or is a fourth DP imminent? I'd heard they were doing away with all of that and just going to a higher cap next year.

Interesting to see how they finesse this. Maybe he signs a six-month TAM deal then pre-signs a new deal for next year at DP level, if they know changes are coming.

I'm sure they can't wait to be rid of Pizarro's anchor contract, given his production levels, but Campana is a good striker for his age. Like, one we should poach of possible if they have to get rid of him.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's Oprah Time for Miami... and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami, and you get to play for Inter-Miami! Heck even that broken down retiree, el companero Kun, is now in on this absurdist fun; enjoying the Messi moment...

There's a rumor he will be an assistant there.

[Ultra & Proud]

but Campana is a good striker for his age. Like, one we should poach of possible if they have to get rid of him.

We should be all over this but I bet we're not.

[Mr. Inbetween]

There's a rumor he will be an assistant there.

https://wp.usatodaysports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2015/01/200.gif

[MikeForbes]

As a supporter of a rival team, this 'sign all of Messis old friends' is pure upside for us, I love it. We get the financial boost from attendance when theyr'e here and, hopefully, success of the Apple TV deal but share a conference with a team that will be ill equipped to become any kind of dominant force if they sign more of these players

Love seeing this news, basically.

This is quite literally something Bill Manning would do.

[Mr. Inbetween]

So he's... a TAM player? Even before Messi gets there they have three DPs. Now they have to free up two of those spots? Or is a fourth DP imminent? I'd heard they were doing away with all of that and just going to a higher cap next year. Interesting to see how they finesse this. Maybe he signs a six-month TAM deal then pre-signs a new deal for next year at DP level, if they know changes are coming. I'm sure they can't wait to be rid of Pizarro's anchor contract, given his production levels, but Campana is a good striker for his age. Like, one we should poach of possible if they have to get rid of him.

I cannot see Kun playing. Maybe another role; as U&P suggests. Regardless. IMCF most likely has / wants to shed most to all of their DPs, U22s, and TAMS to facilitate the success of this initiative; a Messi template. Maybe the club takes advantage of MLS expansions to their Intraleague Loans Policy and their In-Season Player Buyout Policy? Perhaps MLS quietly introduces new MLS rules or regulations to effect this?

[JoesphNdo]

Kun retired on the advice of doctors while at Barcelona, I don't think there's even a .1% chance he signs as a player contract. I wouldn't waste time thinking about how they can fit him onto the roster - if playing again was at all a prospect, he'd have been doing whatever he could to potentially make it onto the world cup squad

[Mr. Inbetween]

If Jordi Alba does end up at IMCF, then I suspect Raoul Petretta will no longer be the highest paid left back in MLS? :)

[jloome]

^Obviously I am just guessing here, but I think his biggest single objective will be to be a decent active player in 2026, and not just be in the 26 but be a contributor to Argentina at the next World Cup.

The marketing power in the strategy of what he is trying to do requires him to still be good three years from now. This is true for MLS also, so the league has incentives not just to allow this, but to encourage it!

So I think, in pursuit of that, he will do unique things that seem “crazy”. Such as skipping Atlanta games.

He said yesterday he won't play in the World Cup in 2026. But I also heard a suggestion yesterday he plans to restrict travel somewhat. He's expected to skip some road trips based on load management, which if you're one of those ticket-paying fans who want to see the 'best ever' tour is going to really be a pisser.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Messi, The GOAT! Thanks, but no thanks Sheik! I choose Inter-Miami! Bonkers! Legend...

https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1666540706880684033

[Mr. Inbetween]

IMO, really, really, interesting article. Simplifies the explanations for why the deal works. Of it's potential metrics; prior templates...

(For instance, in two years, PSG supposedly made $130M on Messi Jerseys alone!!! That is after Nike's cut and Messi's!)

https://huddleup.substack.com/p/the-unique-contract-that-convinced?r=s7ix&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[Ultra & Proud]

IMO, really, really, interesting article. Simplifies the explanations for why the deal works. Of it's potential metrics; prior templates...

(For instance, in two years, PSG supposedly made $130M on Messi Jerseys alone!!! That is after Nike's cut and Messi's!)

So I take it Adidas will be ignoring their sales rules for allowing MLS clubs to have 3rd jerseys in Miami's case.

[Mr. Inbetween]

So I take it Adidas will be ignoring their sales rules for allowing MLS clubs to have 3rd jerseys in Miami's case.

Perhaps. For sure, Adidas will have to up their design game.

[ensco]

He said yesterday he won't play in the World Cup in 2026. But I also heard a suggestion yesterday he plans to restrict travel somewhat. He's expected to skip some road trips based on load management, which if you're one of those ticket-paying fans who want to see the 'best ever' tour is going to really be a pisser.

I am happy to wager a pint on this. He's going.

That statement is a smart but meaningless thing to do.

Messi may well drop from qualification, that I can see. But he is going in 2026 whether he wants to or not! If he is still playing. (Same for Copa America in 2024, btw)

Imagine the pressure that would be on him, the Argentine manager, everybody. Anybody who knows anything about Argentina knows that the domestic politics around this would be insane. This would be way, way bigger than football.

I also suspect he wants to, and recognizes that this is the correct way to play it.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Agree. Wholeheartedly. It's the smart move/play. Circumvents, avoids or shuts down the entire discussion. The one that he needs to compete, test and prepare himself at the highest level to play in Y26; so why then did he go to MLS?

[jloome]

I am happy to wager a pint on this. He's going.

That statement is a smart but meaningless thing to do.

Could be. But by your own admission, he's going to do a lot of walking. I mean... four more years in a league like MLS? We'll be lucky if he's not off injured half the time he's here.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Dominoes falling in place...

https://twitter.com/90min_us/status/1669438862525976582

[Mr. Inbetween]

From the same Argentinian radio station that broke the Messi decision to MLS...

Pal 'Chomper' seems to be 'in play' again...

Although Suarez has made statements denying the rumour, other chatter is either he is coming or it's leverage to get Gremio to ante up what they owe Suarez on his contract; supposedly behind in their payments. Otherwise they are in breach of contract which sets him free from a 70 million Euros transfer clause against a USD2.5M salary?

'Suarez may be moving to MLS At least, that's what journalist Leo Paradizo, from Radio Continental590 and ESPN in Argentina, publishes. According to the source, Luisito is about to arrange his transfer to Inter Miami, Lionel Messi's MLS club.'

https://twitter.com/oBotafoguista/status/1670152083666792449

[Mr. Inbetween]

You learn something new everyday. Today I learned that the same corporate group that makes the adhesive labels I use at work are working on finishing all the IMCF Adidas Jerseys in the world with The GOAT's name on it.

(https://twitter.com/FavianRenkel/status/1669124301033971713)https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1670525346435743757

(https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1670525346435743757)https://twitter.com/XavierLSuarez1/status/1670427494011355136

(https://twitter.com/XavierLSuarez1/status/1670427494011355136)

[jloome]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/20/60m-a-year-lionel-messi-set-to-make-inter-miami-debut-on-21-july

Debut july 21 against Cruz Azul in the League's Cup, according to the Miami owner.

Weird, because I'd bet it'll be the all-star game two days earlier(!!!? This fucking league, scheduling the all-star game TWO DAYS before cup games.)

[Smokecell]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/20/60m-a-year-lionel-messi-set-to-make-inter-miami-debut-on-21-july

Debut july 21 against Cruz Azul in the League's Cup, according to the Miami owner.

Weird, because I'd bet it'll be the all-star game two days earlier(!!!? This fucking league, scheduling the all-star game TWO DAYS before cup games.)

...of a manufactured cup that THEY created :facepalm:

[jloome]

...of a manufactured cup that THEY created :facepalm:

It's fucking embarrassing how incompetent they are sometimes.

[ag futbol]

...of a manufactured cup that THEY created :facepalm:
MLS and Liga MX might as well just merge at this point they are both so rock hard for Chicano dollars.

Either that or US and Mexican nat players can cease to have club teams while they face off 40,000 times a year to make sure they didn’t miss any commercial opportunities..

It’s a disgrace how much of North Americans football is becoming about one thing.

[jloome]

MLS and Liga MX might as well just merge at this point they are both so rock hard for Chicano dollars.

Either that or US and Mexican nat players can cease to have club teams while they face off 40,000 times a year to make sure they didn’t miss any commercial opportunities..

It’s a disgrace how much of North Americans football is becoming about one thing.

I hate to say it, but I can actually see a time when I won't watch football from here anymore. MLS will ruin everything I love about it, and the CPL will never achieve it. And like most people here, I have another team from Europe I support, because that's where my roots are.

I don't want a franchise system with meaningless season games, endless playoffs and cups, 60 plus games a year exhausting players, squads that have to be topped up with unqualified youth just to field a team.

It's fucking pointless. I hate North American sports generally for the absolute tedium of most of the games meaning nothing, which is why I no longer watch them.

[OgtheDim]

I wouldn't judge what Leagues cup will feel like until we get there

IMHO


I suspect the first round matches will feel forced - 4 team groups are always better then 3.

But cup competitions, especially ones with games every night, are fun. Those games will feel like they mean something.

[MikeForbes]

I am willing to give the League's Cup a fair go. I am actually really excited for it.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Me too. Seems wife got a call from our TFC Rep today to opt out? She/we decided to remain(?) opted in.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I hate to say it, but I can actually see a time when I won't watch football from here anymore. MLS will ruin everything I love about it, and the CPL will never achieve it. And like most people here, I have another team from Europe I support, because that's where my roots are.

I don't want a franchise system with meaningless season games, endless playoffs and cups, 60 plus games a year exhausting players, squads that have to be topped up with unqualified youth just to field a team.

It's fucking pointless. I hate North American sports generally for the absolute tedium of most of the games meaning nothing, which is why I no longer watch them.

These are exactly my thoughts too!

[JoesphNdo]

I hate to say it, but I can actually see a time when I won't watch football from here anymore. MLS will ruin everything I love about it, and the CPL will never achieve it. And like most people here, I have another team from Europe I support, because that's where my roots are.

I don't want a franchise system with meaningless season games, endless playoffs and cups, 60 plus games a year exhausting players, squads that have to be topped up with unqualified youth just to field a team.

It's fucking pointless. I hate North American sports generally for the absolute tedium of most of the games meaning nothing, which is why I no longer watch them.

You're not wrong about north American soccer, but European soccer is worse. Leagues where the only way to win is to hope you get backed by the right human rights abuser trying to sports wash their reputation, most clubs with a 0.0% chance of ever winning who exist only to feed the big teams, and as many cups and games as here. Add in clubs actively hostile to their local fans ("legacy fans") who would rip up everything about their history move the teams to Asia in a second if they had the chance

European soccer has bigger problems than here tbh and I'd take MLS, as absurd and artificial as it feels with it's manufactured everything, given a choice between the big euro leagues and here any day.

There's still so much I'd chance about MLS, mainly about the supporters culture, so I'm not saying it's amazing but the European scene is fucking bleak. And I grew up in a family and place in Europe obsessed with football

[OgtheDim]

My two cents and I don't think this necessarily applies to people on here but I'm noticing some things in our post covid social media infested world that I'm just going to riff on for a little bit:



Football suffers from "unless you are the very best, you are a failure & thus not worth supporting" disease.

When out last night, I drank 2 types of beer


1 - a decent draft IPA
2 - Sleemans Honey Brown


The second I drank because it was cheaper (happy hour time reached) but still enjoyable. Do I think Sleemans is the best & would always go for it? No.

So why in HELL would I expect my football to be perfect and always a winner?


I'm watching tonight's game expecting my team to lose - but I watch for the sport, for the fact its my local & cause its still enjoyable to do among all the other things I enjoy. Does the game "mean something"? Hell no. Neither did those Sleemans last night.

So?

If you're not enjoying yourself, stop watching, definitely. But if you're not enjoying yourself because the games are not good enough....you might want to consider whether "good enough" is something fabricated by consumer culture.



Edit: I do draw the lines at somethings - I have tried CPL & just can't. Just like I find Molson Canadian & Bud not worth my time. People have to find the line - I just wouldn't make it so high that you don't enjoy ANY aspect of what you are doing for entertainment.

[ag futbol]

I hate to say it, but I can actually see a time when I won't watch football from here anymore. MLS will ruin everything I love about it, and the CPL will never achieve it. And like most people here, I have another team from Europe I support, because that's where my roots are.

I don't want a franchise system with meaningless season games, endless playoffs and cups, 60 plus games a year exhausting players, squads that have to be topped up with unqualified youth just to field a team.

It's fucking pointless. I hate North American sports generally for the absolute tedium of most of the games meaning nothing, which is why I no longer watch them.
I share your opinion here but I will say it extends more so to all the big leagues in general rather than MLS specifically. It increasingly feels like 12 layers of corporate bs / consumerism surrounding one level of authenticity.

I grew up in Halifax (with no major pro teams in the city of course). Lower level leagues can be fun. Ignoring the “plunging the nats for dollars” aspect for a second, I think they are on to something with the CPL. But I’d appreciate a little bit more investment than I’m seeing currently. If the quality raised ever so slightly and they started playing in nice local stadiums, it would really go a long way to making me want to attend.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm surprised at hearing the fatigue from some of our longest serving and proficient posters but I completely understand.

If I tried to watch all leagues and/or my teams with the same expectations my heart would explode with frustration.

Messi will be fun to watch in the established MLS way. He probably won't meet the hypes expectation on the pitch but most people won't care because in NA the sizzle beats the actual steak all the time.

Still. Messi here is better than Messi not here.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Interesting listen/watch by SportiCast from Sportico on Messi details, as well as, sport franchise valuations and current on-goings as a background to the Larry Tananbaum/MLSE matter. Decided to included this post in two threads because of it's specific portions relevance to each.

https://www.sportico.com/podcasts/sporticast/2023/leo-messi-contract-details-ownership-jordan-sale-1234726636/

[Mr. Inbetween]

The Messi knock... 'standing still' or 'walking'... but then... magic (this time against Brazil)...

https://twitter.com/nocontextfooty/status/1672109901189992448

https://twitter.com/DonDrPr_4ever/status/1672298629363638272

[jloome]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/24/sergio-busquets-joins-lionel-messi-at-inter-miami-after-leaving-barcelona

So... how? Non dp player? On league minimum? Be interesting to see how they explain this one.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Bro, if you have got no idea... I would like to think I try to have a modicum of sense about such MLS matters and am utterly lost on this; the how is Inter-Miami managing all this? I thought they were also (recently?) penalized- sanctioned by the league for a past transfer/wage transgression. The transfer reports, outgoing and incoming, are all over the place. Keeping one of or both of Campana or Martinez. Busquets supposedly a DP. Alba the next target? A DP? Add to that mix some rumours of Suarez pulling a Criscito. IIUC, Martinez had a good portion of his contract paid for by Atlanta and may not count as a DP for either club. The general consensus suggests Pizzaro gets bought out. Gregore is traded or bought down; been stated IMCF have enough TAM. While it seems the Messi-IMCF-MLS deal did not involve any league-wide or shared financial sacrifice, I suspect the league head office is working overtime, even looking the other way or pinching their noses against any rules and regulations, to facilitate any required moves to accommodate the arrival and best Messi approved possibility for success of The GOAT et al.

[Richard]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/24/sergio-busquets-joins-lionel-messi-at-inter-miami-after-leaving-barcelona

So... how? Non dp player? On league minimum? Be interesting to see how they explain this one.



^
Bro, if you have got no idea... I would like to think I try to have a modicum of sense about such MLS matters and am utterly lost on this; the how is Inter-Miami managing all this? I thought they were also (recently?) penalized- sanctioned by the league for a past transfer/wage transgression. The transfer reports, outgoing and incoming, are all over the place. Keeping one of or both of Campana or Martinez. Busquets supposedly a DP. Alba the next target? A DP? Add to that mix some rumours of Suarez pulling a Criscito. IIUC, Martinez had a good portion of his contract paid for by Atlanta and may not count as a DP for either club. The general consensus suggests Pizzaro gets bought out. Gregore is traded or bought down; been stated IMCF have enough TAM. While it seems the Messi-IMCF-MLS deal did not involve any league-wide or shared financial sacrifice, I suspect the league head office is working overtime, even looking the other way or pinching their noses against any rules and regulations, to facilitate any required moves to accommodate the arrival and best Messi approved possibility for success of The GOAT et al.

To put to much thought into it.

MLS is in WWE mode, they will create, bend, break whatever rules to appease Messi.

[ensco]

Stuff is coming out about what happened with Messi and the PSG Ultras in Paris. Unimaginable.

It's wild to read that some PSG supporters are driving all of him, Mbappe and Neymar out. They have been organizing protests at these guys homes (it happened to Neymar for sure and Messi alludes to “things”)…

[JoesphNdo]

Stuff is coming out about what happened with Messi and the PSG Ultras in Paris. Unimaginable.

It's wild to read that some PSG supporters are driving all of him, Mbappe and Neymar out. They have been organizing protests at these guys homes (it happened to Neymar for sure and Messi alludes to “things”)…

Sometimes I find myself resenting how artificial and underwhelming supporter culture is here and long for something like Europe. But then you're reminded of the ugly reality behind alot of that and honestly MLS support starts to look a whole lot better by comparison. Between stuff like that and the violence still at games, not to mention how things like racism consistently still appear in even all of Europe's major leagues...I'll take what we have overall

[OgtheDim]

I remain convinced we attracted Insigne because he could walk the streets here & nobody will notice and if they do, they will nod & smile & not bug him much.

Messi isn't going to have to deal with Ultras in Miami but he will not be able to walk around in a mall.

[Mr. Inbetween]

What did Tata just whisper into Messi's ear? Perhaps, see you soon in Miami?

https://twitter.com/SC_ESPN/status/1672737078629761024

[Mr. Inbetween]

If Messi goes, participates, in this year's upcoming MLS All-Star match, is anyone going?

[CorrwgBach]

If Messi goes, participates, in this year's upcoming MLS All-Star match, is anyone going?

No, it’s a friendly and pointless.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Well... It's official!

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1674154899653656580

https://twitter.com/psp_paraguay/status/1674168405459386368

[DinamoTFC]

Hats off to Miami. They might actually turn that club around. Too bad we couldn't land Tata

[Mr. Inbetween]

WTF!? #1...

https://twitter.com/SoccerFlow/status/1675739049326432256

[Mr. Inbetween]

WTF!? #2...

https://twitter.com/footballespana_/status/1675419034270208000

[Mr. Inbetween]

Rumours... Fast & Furious! Suarez still possible; in play!

Jorge Mas, president of IMCF... 'Two or three more players will come. We spoke with Jordi Alba, while Luis Suárez has a contract and a termination clause. I don't know if that will happen. All the announcements will be made before July 15'.

https://twitter.com/RinconMLS/status/1675514236460564481

[Mr. Inbetween]

It’s happen’. It’s finally happen’!

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1678832978548387847

[OgtheDim]

Dude is out there buying Family Size Lucky Charms for his kids...


https://twitter.com/lautarodeIcampo/status/1679667857368535040

[Mr. Inbetween]

Luis Suarez doing everything possible to get to, no sleep 'til, IMCF. Seems Gremio holding his feet to their agreement's 'release clause' fire.

'Inter Miami insists on signing Luis Suárez, but Gremio has already made its position clear: he is only leaving because of the exit clause and the MLS team considers it very high. Except for a radical change, it seems very difficult to get out of this market.'

https://twitter.com/CLMerlo/status/1679666200928743424

[SenorDingDong]

Dude is out there buying Family Size Lucky Charms for his kids...


https://twitter.com/lautarodeIcampo/status/1679667857368535040

Something he could probably never do in Europe.

[Canary10]

Something he could probably never do in Europe.

No Lucky Charms in Europe?

[ag futbol]

Something he could probably never do in Europe.
What do really famous people do for kicks? They go to countries where they are less known and go to the grocery store appears to be the answer hahaha

My bet is once he launches in MLS and press coverage takes off it will be no more trips to whole foods.

[OgtheDim]

I think by his 3rd year here, he'll be part of the wallpaper and a very happy man for having been able to get his family out of the bubble.

[Joe Kool]

No Lucky Charms in Europe?

He had the same reaction a lot of us non-Americans have when he first went into a US supermarket. There are stores where entire aisles are dedicated to cereal alone about 4 times the size of our cereal section in Canada. So many truly odd and different products. Might even be more staggering coming from Europe. I still get baffled by it when I go to the US. My wife would always say when in the US let's go get a bunch of junky cereal. Maybe it is a thing along with a trip to Olive Garden.

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/ArtButSports/status/1680037292612767744


BTW, this twitter account does all this without AI - its all in his head or pics he's taken in museums.

[los sonadores]

https://twitter.com/ArtButSports/status/1680037292612767744


BTW, this twitter account does all this without AI - its all in his head or pics he's taken in museums.

Not bad but also not very close visually… I guess the “first marketing” part. Btw, prefer this use of marketing… shopping at the market rather than PR. It was in use in that way at least though the 1950’s.

[MikeForbes]

It is officially official.

https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF/status/1680277326137905155?s=20

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/DamianCalhoun/status/1680296215068704768

Holy...

[Richard]

https://twitter.com/DamianCalhoun/status/1680296215068704768

Holy...

Now everyone can watch a team just as inept as us in 4K. 😀

[jloome]

Now everyone can watch a team just as inept as us in 4K. 

If they don't win this weekend, they're about as unlikely to make the playoffs as we are. That'll annoy a few people. He gets here and... stops playing for five months.

[jloome]

A fairly withering assessment from one of the better football writers:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jul/15/money-and-profile-sure-but-what-does-lionel-messi-bring-to-miami-on-the-pitch

[Richard]

If they don't win this weekend, they're about as unlikely to make the playoffs as we are. That'll annoy a few people. He gets here and... stops playing for five months.

I'm sure Messi doesn't care about Miami's performance, in my opinion he has already retired mentally.

He is basically here to be a Harlem Globetrotter, dribble past some mediocre defenders, score a free kick here and there, take every other game off, and then go on a early holiday.

Are reporters still going to be allowed in the dressing room? When was the last time you have seen Messi in a scrimmage with reporters? This guy is not going to do any marketing outside of the bare minimum.

MLS HQ in two years is going to be disappointed once this whole deal is up and wondering what the hell they paid for.

I guess it will be fun to hear Ray Hudson commentate on Messi directly again.

[Amir.]

are they waiting for busquets to turn 35 tomorrow to announce theyve signed 2 35+ players to try to make one of the greatest turnarounds in mls history by winning something like 8 of the last 12 to get in the playoffs with what is currently the third worse defense in the east? lol

[Amir.]

are they waiting for busquets to turn 35 tomorrow to announce theyve signed 2 35+ players to try to make one of the greatest turnarounds in mls history by winning something like 8 of the last 12 to get in the playoffs with what is currently the third worse defense in the east? lol

they indeed announce busquets the day he turns 35...and to a dp contract...looks like they have 5 dps now if we include campana martinez gregore...will be interesting to see if they have to be compliant by the next mls game in august or by leagues cup this week

https://www.intermiamicf.com/news/inter-miami-cf-signs-legendary-midfielder-sergio-busquets

[jloome]

they indeed announce busquets the day he turns 35...and to a dp contract...looks like they have 5 dps now if we include campana martinez gregore...will be interesting to see if they have to be compliant by the next mls game in august or by leagues cup this week

https://www.intermiamicf.com/news/inter-miami-cf-signs-legendary-midfielder-sergio-busquets

They'll buy out Gregore because of his injury. The rules this year on the u22 DPs don't say anything about value limits on the main DPs, so presumably they can keep Campana.

[Amir.]

theres still a max of 3 dps...looks like martinez doesnt occupy a dp spot due to the contract percentage Miami are responsible for...+ the salary budget charge of gregore might have been brought down to make him a non dp...in that case the 3 dps are messi busquets campana

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/josef-martinez-signs-for-inter-miami-after-atlanta-united-contract-buyout

[los sonadores]

A fairly withering assessment from one of the better football writers:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jul/15/money-and-profile-sure-but-what-does-lionel-messi-bring-to-miami-on-the-pitch

Good summation and extension of what many of us are saying and thinking. And let’s face it, most commentary is about the money involved, the attention, brand(s) status and the fact that Messi is an all time great. As far as the sporting aspect goes, probably the best shot is that Tata reconfigures the team to be as close to Argentina as possible in terms of Messi support. Not at all easy to do in MLS, and we have seen what happens when there are two somewhat conflicting management approaches, one to sign stars/get attention, and the other to play effectively within the constraints of the league.

[MikeForbes]

Anyone else watching this Messi thing live on Apple TV? This is how I would imagine they would treat Jesus (whether he was real or not) if he came back to life and wanted to add a chapter to the Bible.

[wopchop]

Anyone else watching this Messi thing live on Apple TV? This is how I would imagine they would treat Jesus (whether he was real or not) if he came back to life and wanted to add a chapter to the Bible.
I was thinking the same thing!

[Bushmancan]

https://twitter.com/worldsoccertalk/status/1680956472719466496?s=20

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/worldsoccertalk/status/1680956472719466496?s=20

Messi already bringing positive change to the league.

[los sonadores]

Messi already bringing positive change to the league.

I read the article, Garber is talking about installing grass over artificial pitches only for the Messi matches as if they were special and temporary events. He also says that some great players were fine with playing on turf… doesn’t sound like lasting change to me.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1681365178380591104?s=20

[Canary10]

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1681365178380591104?s=20

Miami is quickly taking advantage of MLS's new O35 Initiative.

[Joe Kool]

Messi already bringing positive change to the league.

Then after Messi leaves the stadium they roll up the temporary natural grass and continue to play on fake turf I bet. Until next year when they bring out a temp surface again when the Miami circus comes to town.

[jloome]

Then after Messi leaves the stadium they roll up the temporary natural grass and continue to play on fake turf I bet. Until next year when they bring out a temp surface again when the Miami circus comes to town.

Yup. Not giving up all that sweet concert revenue for nobody regular players.

[OgtheDim]

Yup. Not giving up all that sweet concert revenue for nobody regular players.

I saw a tweet from @MLSist lately indicating NER only changes their field after a certain yearly monster truck event...just in time for Patriot preseason of course.

[Prof]

Then after Messi leaves the stadium they roll up the temporary natural grass and continue to play on fake turf I bet. Until next year when they bring out a temp surface again when the Miami circus comes to town.

Real grass, not turf.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We MAY trust that Garber et al know what attracts or whats expected by the best players in the world. Just can't afford to keep it that way. MULTI MULTI MULTI SPORT!!!

[SoccMan2]

In terms of fake turf it’s really only the NFL stadiums with MLS teams that have them with I think Portland being the only exception, but all the soccer specific stadiums have natural grass, moreover all of the new MLS stadiums have natural grass . Furthermore, how many artificial grass stadiums does the MLS have ? A very small percentage compared to the number of teams . Let’s give the MLS some credit here I know it’s hard for most people on here to do that but there have been a lot of nice new grass only stadiums built since the MLS came to existence unfortunately our BMO field is definitely not one of them , but at least it has grass .

[BendItLikeGio]

Yes BMO isn;t the greatest anymore, but they paved the way for many new teams to have proper grass/soccer specific stadium..

unfortunately, BMO field being owned by city of toronto, any changes or upgrades takes forever to be approved, like anything at the city.



In terms of fake turf it’s really only the NFL stadiums with MLS teams that have them with I think Portland being the only exception, but all the soccer specific stadiums have natural grass, moreover all of the new MLS stadiums have natural grass . Furthermore, how many artificial grass stadiums does the MLS have ? A very small percentage compared to the number of teams . Let’s give the MLS some credit here I know it’s hard for most people on here to do that but there have been a lot of nice new grass only stadiums built since the MLS came to existence unfortunately our BMO field is definitely not one of them , but at least it has grass .

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think this is hilarious that Leagues cup will have fake Messi eyeballs on it with very little interest in the brand new cash tourney.

[Canary10]

Yes BMO isn;t the greatest anymore, but they paved the way for many new teams to have proper grass/soccer specific stadium..

unfortunately, BMO field being owned by city of toronto, any changes or upgrades takes forever to be approved, like anything at the city.

I don't think MLSE is just sitting around with buckets of money to throw at BMO Field just waiting for City approvals to come through.

[OgtheDim]

I don't think MLSE is just sitting around with buckets of money to throw at BMO Field just waiting for City approvals to come through.

Kinda the opposite actually


https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2023.EX6.25

[ag futbol]

Some Twitter chatter of Iniesta signing with Inter Miami. I pray that it doesn’t happen. I just finished washing my mind of MLS Pirlo, am I going to have to do it to another one of my favourite players?

[los sonadores]

Some Twitter chatter of Iniesta signing with Inter Miami. I pray that it doesn’t happen. I just finished washing my mind of MLS Pirlo, am I going to have to do it to another one of my favourite players?

Yeah, man, I know what you’re saying. It’s one of those sort of desperate MLS things that befall us.

[CorrwgBach]

Yeah, man, I know what you’re saying. It’s one of those sort of desperate MLS things that befall us.

This one is great he’s actually coming out of retirement to join Messi.

He’s 40 next year surely this is not as a player.

[ag futbol]

This one is great he’s actually coming out of retirement to join Messi.

He’s 40 next year surely this is not as a player.
I’m not clear on what this is. He was still playing in Japan this year. The below article paints an interesting picture:

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/10/andres-iniesta-goodbye-japan-vissel-kobe

Between this and Busquets quote recently (“I have only been here three days but it is another culture. It is more spectacle in that it does not depend so much on whether you win or lose") I am sort of hoping this whole Inter Miami thing face-plants.

[jloome]

I’m not clear on what this is. He was still playing in Japan this year. The below article paints an interesting picture:

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/10/andres-iniesta-goodbye-japan-vissel-kobe

Between this and Busquets quote recently (“I have only been here three days but it is another culture. It is more spectacle in that it does not depend so much on whether you win or lose") I am sort of hoping this whole Inter Miami thing face-plants.

Yeah, "it's not that important" is a really bad look. Messi said the same thing last week and the overseas press treated it like a buffet.

The complete absence of any sentimentality in American corporate culture really doesn't fit well with football.

[OgtheDim]

Miami going to LAFC is going to be a bit of a shock for those oldsters in 2023 but they have no idea what they have bought into Feb through Nov of next year.

[jloome]

Miami going to LAFC is going to be a bit of a shock for those oldsters in 2023 but they have no idea what they have bought into Feb through Nov of next year.

American commentators fellating everyone from Kim Kardassian to LeBron and Ryan Seacrest.

No discussion of football so far.

[Mr. Inbetween]

MLS... 'The Moment'... BM/AM...

https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1682563903627186176

[SenorDingDong]

MLS... 'The Moment'... BM/AM...

https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1682563903627186176

I hate to say it and I know its only 30 min. But Messi / Busquets look damn good. Messi and Martinez connection looks really good.

That said, Inter Miami defensively looks awful. Cruz Azul should have 3-4 goals easy.

[ag futbol]

I hate to say it and I know it’s only 30 min. But Messi / Busquets look damn good. Messi and Martinez connection looks really good.
Yep, their space awareness is just next level. It’s pretty crazy to watch. It’s like split second and all of sudden Busquets just pings Messi wide open some how.

[SenorDingDong]

And the storybook finish for Messi. Wow.

[spe18]

WOW!!!!!! Just an absolute stunner on a free kick by Messi to win it @ the death for Inter Miami!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OgtheDim]

LOL...just saw the FK taken but that is a moment.

[SenorDingDong]

Yep, their space awareness is just next level. It’s pretty crazy to watch. It’s like split second and all of sudden Busquets just pings Messi wide open some how.

This crazy experiment might just work for a year or so.

[MikeForbes]

That is probably the biggest MLS moment of all times. Everyone from LA to Tokyo will see that Messi free kick by noon tomorrow. A lot will say "so what? He scored against a nobody Mexican team" when Cruz Azul is one of the biggest teams on the continent.

[CorrwgBach]

That is probably the biggest MLS moment of all times. Everyone from LA to Tokyo will see that Messi free kick by noon tomorrow. A lot will say "so what? He scored against a nobody Mexican team" when Cruz Azul is one of the biggest teams on the continent.

The ref probably could have blown for time on the foul. And in most games he would have. Fully understand why he did not.

If Clive Thomas was reffing he would have blown time as soon as Messi hit it. Apologies for the old old reference.

[jloome]

Yep, their space awareness is just next level. It’s pretty crazy to watch. It’s like split second and all of sudden Busquets just pings Messi wide open some how.

Storybook ending.

Messi was very good. Busquets had a few amazing moments; but I'll tell you what... their goalie, Drake Calendar, had to stand on his head a few times to get them there.

Part of the reason Cruz Azul were so dangerous late in the game was that Busquets has zero mobility defensively. So they could leave one midfielder deep in the pocket in front of him as a constant outlet, maintaining deep pressure.

THey'll win some amazing finishes and Messi looks super dangerous still. But I think they'll have some trouble defending with three players on the field -- Martinez, Messi and Busquets -- who essentially don't defend.

Damn dangerous going forward, though. Damn.

[RealG-TFC]

Former Red Carlos Salcedo doing his part in the storybook ending

[JoesphNdo]

Half fit and Messi was by far the best player on the pitch when he came on, such a joy to watch

[ag futbol]

This crazy experiment might just work for a year or so.
Yep. My takeaway too. They’ll have to play vintage Barcelona / Spain way of keeping the ball as much as possible. Defending won’t be their thing.

But they’ll start to punch holes in teams that don’t press considerately and the league will need to adjust tactically.

[DinamoTFC]

Hope our DPs saw that and try a little harder next game.

[wopchop]

Has anyone ever seen a goal celebration quite like that? Did he do a lap? LOL.

[Richard]

Goat

[PizzaEatingYeti]

That is probably the biggest MLS moment of all times. Everyone from LA to Tokyo will see that Messi free kick by noon tomorrow. A lot will say "so what? He scored against a nobody Mexican team" when Cruz Azul is one of the biggest teams on the continent.

Yep, Cruz Azul are nobodies on the World stage.

[SenorDingDong]

THey'll win some amazing finishes and Messi looks super dangerous still. But I think they'll have some trouble defending with three players on the field -- Martinez, Messi and Busquets -- who essentially don't defend.

Damn dangerous going forward, though. Damn.

My main takeaway was I don't think they can add any more old guys on the pitch at the same time. Way too easy for Cruz Azul to have so much possession st the end. Should have easily scored more goals. But damn, those Messi passes and through balls were magic.

Will be curious to see if Messi adjusts. When Insigne came he was like Messi, didn't really press or track back. Now he does all that lol.

[Gringo Starr]

I’m not impressed, I mean even Mista scored against Cruz Azul

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/MichaelBuckelew/status/1682623053274988544


(Goes to look to see who is going to be that kid for Atlanta on Tuesday.)

[Mr. Inbetween]

Welcome to the MLeSsi Era. The 🐐 just doing 🐐 things...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1682569429819727877

[Amir.]

cruz azul had so many opportunities they should have won it by a few goals...and they are last in mexico after three losses in three games...messi and martinez werent defending and busquets couldnt run much and had a huge giveway which should have turned into a goal...obviously as far as passing the ball hes still very good...they conceded the equalizer 11 minutes after the three subbed in and then needed a last minute free kick from messi...its gonna look good offensively but nothing points to them being able to fix it defensively...callender is bad miller didnt close down on the goal then later went down and subbed out and it looks like you will have 2-3 players who will be waiting the team to win back the ball or who wont have the legs to defend

[Mr. Inbetween]

Robbie Robinson? MLeSsi match nerves and/or heatstroke sickness? Announcing... clean-up on IMCF aisle... left pitch touchline. Hate to have slid tackled into that!

https://twitter.com/nocontextfooty/status/1682623333550964736

[Mr. Inbetween]

Lots of images of Messi et al bonding with IMCF players during practice the past week. I note the shenanigans between Messi and Martinez. Messi smiling, laughing, thinking... 'C'mon dude don't make it too easy for papzz, asshole! Later, together, actually celebrating the dream of a storybook ending to an MLS debut. My spidey sense tells me lots to expect from the chemistry between these two. BTW, I have never bothered to notice when watching him, does anyone know if there is an instance/footage, other than perhaps WC26, of Messi ever scoring and lapping the pitch in celebration to his family, wife and kids, for their hugs and kisses? Was that a La Liga/Ligue 1/MLS league match first for him?

https://twitter.com/VivianGonzalez8/status/1682812950556360704

[Prof]

I'm in Florida now. I just paid more for one bloody game to take my nephew to see Messi tonight, than my TFC season membership. :scarf:

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I'm in Florida now. I just paid more for one bloody game to take my nephew to see Messi tonight, than my TFC season membership. :scarf:

WOW man.. that's a lotta cash...
I whish you and your nephew to see a great game in which Messi will have a great evolution, and at least 2 goals (or 1 goal and a major assist) by him.

[Prof]

WOW man.. that's a lotta cash...
I whish you and your nephew to see a great game in which Messi will have a great evolution, and at least 2 goals (or 1 goal and a major assist) by him.

2 goals and 2 assists. Some stars make everyone on the team better and some like ours don't. His vision is one of a kind. Great atmosphere, but everything is pricey. Parking at the stadium started at $50.

[Mr. Inbetween]

IMCF's rising tide lifts all boats. Teammates play better when playing for/with the GOAT. The DRV PNK MLeSsi experience, crossed off the bucket list, congratulations. Envious, memory for a lifetime.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Messi... Jedi Master of The Force?

https://twitter.com/nocontextfooty/status/1684088575162216448

https://twitter.com/n8b101/status/1684109968000049152

[Richard]

Messi looks so happy at Miami when you look at him at PSG, their ultras are a disgrace, no appreciation for what they had.

Let's see if Messi and friends can run the table, if they get competitive and make any decent sort of run you could be looking at Super Bowl level numbers.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Messi... Jedi Master of The Force?

https://twitter.com/nocontextfooty/status/1684088575162216448

https://twitter.com/n8b101/status/1684109968000049152

Clarification, update... Mjolnir! or Stormbreaker? ...

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1684964800235806733

[Canary10]

Clarification, update... Mjolnir! or Stormbreaker? ...

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1684964800235806733

I thought the Thor pic was the TFC home kit for a brief second.

[benito]

I thought the Thor pic was the TFC home kit for a brief second.

hahaha… that must have been the inspiration for the kit.

[jloome]

The real test for the Messi effect will be if they play America. Watching them rip St. Louis apart the other night it was clear they're on a different level to any MLS club right now. Just a precise, front-foot, top-level club in terms of performance.

That'll be interesting. I think against a team that good, we'll see him have a tougher time, because he needs supporting pieces in a scenario like that.

[OgtheDim]

As usual, Pablo Maurer with the interesting take that also includes NASL / Pele information

Behind the paywall - how do shirt swaps happen

https://theathletic.com/4730331/2023/07/29/messi-jersey-swap-mls/

[ronzilla]

Messi plays like he's in his backyard with slippers on. Doesn't need to put much effort. Miami is so lucky to have him.

[Mr. Inbetween]

#$@!% Horseshoes & Hand-Grenades…

https://twitter.com/FCBAlbiceleste/status/1684263951565979657

[Mr. Inbetween]

As usual, Pablo Maurer with the interesting take that also includes NASL / Pele information Behind the paywall - how do shirt swaps happen

https://theathletic.com/4730331/2023/07/29/messi-jersey-swap-mls/

Believe in one of Miami’s two LC matches, IIRC against ATLUTD and not Cruz Azul , there is post-game footage on the internets of another player following him, a shirt exchange already happened, into the tunnel to his locker-room entrance when a team assistant gives Messi a ‘second’ shirt to hand the player.

Also, a similar ‘MLS’ story; that’s not paywalled…

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/messi/want-a-lionel-messi-game-worn-jersey-eloy-room-already-has-one

[Bushmancan]

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1685560861526515713?s=46&t=LPJQqint7A0s6YNY-o9Urw

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1685560861526515713?s=46&t=LPJQqint7A0s6YNY-o9Urw

Given that Suarez himself said yesterday that Miami doesn't have the money he wants, and given they already have three DPs, this feels like speculative fishing.

He figures the cap is going to change somehow -- although I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but many older owners are fighting major changes -- and that when that happens, in the off season, they can sign Suarez. But none of that has happened yet, and no one voids a contract on a possibility.

[FootBallAZ]

I'm in Florida now. I just paid more for one bloody game to take my nephew to see Messi tonight, than my TFC season membership. :scarf:


Are we able to ask- how much you paid and what the process was? I was told from my Miami Season's rep that tickets are non transferable - did you have to use the original ticket holder's login and password? or was it a hard copy ticket?

thanks.

[Prof]

I purchased through Ticketmaster. Cost was approximately $178 US each for 2 ($490 CAN.) including fees. These were the cheapest for that game. I was told if you wait just before kick off the prices go down on stub hub. But I wasn't willing to take the chance. No hard copy, ticket was on my phone.

[spe18]

Another spectacular goal by Messi in the opening minutes in the round of 32 match vs. Orlando City!

[OgtheDim]

And then Orlando comes back

&

Messi does a petulant kick of a leg to get a deserved yellow card

[OgtheDim]

They keep talking about "Taylor was playing non-league football"


He played 1 game on loan and the rest in his home country of Finland.

[Mr. Inbetween]

It pains me to say it, but Messi should have already fouled, carded, himself out of this match and IMCF should be playing with ten.

[ag futbol]

They keep talking about "Taylor was playing non-league football"


He played 1 game on loan and the rest in his home country of Finland.
Yeah, they sure do love their hyperbole.

The officiating here is highly suspect.

[SenorDingDong]

Well one thing is for sure. Inter Miami is going to quickly rise up the table a bit.

TFC definitely going to get that dead last spot.

[Red CB Toronto]

They keep talking about "Taylor was playing non-league football"


He played 1 game on loan and the rest in his home country of Finland.

I would argue Finland is lower than non-league football.

[jloome]

I would argue Finland is lower than non-league football.

It's certainly lower than the English National League. I believe Taylor was at Lincoln, which is National League. He was only 18, though.

Taylor's career as revived by being discovered by Norwegian scouts and given a deal there. He was at Brann, quite a big club by Scandi standards, before MLS.

[Richard]

Well one thing is for sure. Inter Miami is going to quickly rise up the table a bit.

TFC definitely going to get that dead last spot.

I'm all in favor of TFC getting relegated to the CPL.

[Richard]

I was wrong about Messi. He has come in with a winners mentality and not for a vacation.

He makes MLS look like Sunday league football.

[ensco]

The truly truly elite guys, which Beckham and Henry were not, at least not when they got here, come in here and just tear the league apart.

Ibra did this. Maybe David Villa also.

https://twitter.com/troiisports/status/1688474124316749824?s=46&t=NTVAP73zMbn_JXnlneKOVQ

[jloome]

The truly truly elite guys, which Beckham and Henry were not, at least not when they got here, come in here and just tear the league apart.

Ibra did this. Maybe David Villa also.

https://twitter.com/troiisports/status/1688474124316749824?s=46&t=NTVAP73zMbn_JXnlneKOVQ

I'd say 'legendary'. Beckham and Thierry Henry were both Golden Ball winners or nominees, both perennial top 100 players, so they were truly elite.

Ibra and Messi are probably both top 10 all-time. Messi is almost certainly number one on that list.

But having said that ... Dallas's tactic of crowding out Busquets with Velasco covering him tightly for first 64 minutes was working.

They probably win that walking away, even with Messi, af they don't a) have a player lose his mind and forget which end he's at -- as you clearly see in the replay from Lima's expression that he's TRYING to score; and b) have their manager do the dreaded "extra defensive man" sub, and sit them back instead of pressing high.

They certainly did not look invincible in that game.

He didn't do much walking, either. I mean, the dude would get 30 goals AND assists in a season, it's so easy for him to find space.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Messi… Master of the Dark Arts :)…

https://twitter.com/nocontextfooty/status/1688824824888479744?s=61

[Mr. Inbetween]

Bawawawa :) ...

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1690058483230490625

[Mr. Inbetween]

The GOAT still doing GOAT things…

https://twitter.com/MLSMoves/status/1690174484123152384

[Prof]

Every time a new DP is signed, I hear "they are going to tear this league apart". Bullshit, only 2 players so far have come and made an immediate impact Messi and Ibra. The rest of the "big names" are pretenders. And we may have signed the biggest pretender ever in Insigne.

[Ultra & Proud]

Every time a new DP is signed, I hear "they are going to tear this league apart". Bullshit, only 2 players so far have come and made an immediate impact Messi and Ibra. The rest of the "big names" are pretenders. And we may have signed the biggest pretender ever in Insigne.
Villa & Vela would disagree.

[ag futbol]

Villa & Vela would disagree.
Different era but shout out to Robbie Keane as well. He really lit things up here, fun to watch.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Every time a new DP is signed, I hear "they are going to tear this league apart". Bullshit, only 2 players so far have come and made an immediate impact Messi and Ibra. The rest of the "big names" are pretenders. And we may have signed the biggest pretender ever in Insigne.

I think your frustration may highlight an interesting opportunity. This Messi factor, the BM/Before Messi and AM/After Messi in MLS, may be the spark our DP’s, as well as, other teammates and management, needed to finally jolt their realization of what was expected, how it was supposed to go. It may re-invigorate them to commit to figuring out how to make it work with those here and in the short-term give it a go again; I still think on paper TFC should be a more middling squad.

[JoesphNdo]

You don't have to leave this club for an example, by any definition, Seba came and tore the league apart

[jloome]

You don't have to leave this club for an example, by any definition, Seba came and tore the league apart

Absolutely. I'd say Hany Mukhtar performs at close to that level as well. He's just a complete game-changer at this level.

[SenorDingDong]

Do we all forget Pozuelo as well? 2019/2020 he was destroying the league.

The players who tear this league apart are rarely the A list players (pirlo, lamaprd, gerrard, insigne) etc...

It's more the B type players.

[ag futbol]

Do we all forget Pozuelo as well? 2019/2020 he was destroying the league.

The players who tear this league apart are rarely the A list players (pirlo, lamaprd, gerrard, insigne) etc...

It's more the B type players.
I don’t think it’s big name vs non-big name. More like having an individualistic streak and understanding you’re shouldering the load as opposed to being a specialist like many can do in Europe because of the quality of players around them.

[Prof]

You don't have to leave this club for an example, by any definition, Seba came and tore the league apart

As much as I love Seba, he was not a big name when he came and along with Villa, Vela, Keane etc. it was a season(s) long impact, not immediate. Inter Miami has scored more goals in 6 games with Messi than TFC has all season. Think of that impact.

[OgtheDim]

Soooooo......is anybody going to beat Miami this season? Cause they are looking pretty Man City / Bayern like out there right now.

[jloome]

Soooooo......is anybody going to beat Miami this season? Cause they are looking pretty Man City / Bayern like out there right now.

I think they show significant signs of vulnerability despite the four goals a game. They scored 4 on an xG of 0.5 or something like that. Philly had an xG of 2.3 or thereabouts.

There will be games when the goalie doesn't have a shocker, and the late curler from Messi doesn't go in.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Soooooo......is anybody going to beat Miami this season? Cause they are looking pretty Man City / Bayern like out there right now.

20SEP23, Messi vs. Vazquez, a match in waiting since childhood.

[ensco]

20SEP23, Messi vs. Vazquez, a match in waiting since childhood.

Jesus, we are going to be the Washington Generals in that game. I bet a TFC victory would pay at least 25-1.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Jesus, we are going to be the Washington Generals in that game. I bet a TFC victory would pay at least 25-1.

My son will make that bet. Mentioned to me that for some reason there were good/favourable odds on Messi scoring in tonight’s match. Think he made some money.

[Mr. Inbetween]

So NSH and IMCF go to CCL?

[jloome]

So NSH and IMCF go to CCL?

Yeah, plus Monterrey's already in as their league winner. But I believe Philly still has to win the third place game to be a third qualifier.

It's the CCC now, they dropped league in favor of 'Cup' for next year.

[ag futbol]

I think they show significant signs of vulnerability despite the four goals a game. They scored 4 on an xG of 0.5 or something like that. Philly had an xG of 2.3 or thereabouts.

There will be games when the goalie doesn't have a shocker, and the late curler from Messi doesn't go in.
Maybe this is my slanted view half watching parts of the game in the background but Miami looked pretty comfortable out there. Basically scored when they wanted and then did their usual 2nd half funk having already gone up 3-0.

xG is an okay metric but it has flaws. To the model, the chance of Jordy Alba scoring streaking off the left flank and shooting from that position is the same as any other MLS fullback. But we all know those are not the same.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Yeah, plus Monterrey's already in as their league winner. But I believe Philly still has to win the third place game to be a third qualifier. It's the CCC now, they dropped league in favor of 'Cup' for next year.

That's interesting. I would have thought given MTY's circumstance PHY would have been granted that CCC spot automatically then. Do you happen to understand where that slot ends up with now? Does it go to the MLS or to LigaMX?

[OgtheDim]

In his presser today (a lot of deferential journos today but its early and they are not losing yet), Messi was asked about playing on turf

https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1692269702993551706

[Mr. Inbetween]

Yeah, plus Monterrey's already in as their league winner. But I believe Philly still has to win the third place game to be a third qualifier. It's the CCC now, they dropped league in favor of 'Cup' for next year.


That's interesting. I would have thought given MTY's circumstance PHY would have been granted that CCC spot automatically then. Do you happen to understand where that slot ends up with now? Does it go to the MLS or to LigaMX?

^
?
Click for visual of all leagues Y24 CCC allocated slots/spots...

https://twitter.com/MLSMoves/status/1691915278366699919

[OgtheDim]

I love MLS - guy plays game against Messi - goes home with his shirt - wife posts pics of the shirt at 1:30 with guy drinking a beer

https://twitter.com/JenZMcCarty/status/1693136336285302932

[ensco]

This is simply unreal.

https://x.com/joepompliano/status/1693727222132015121?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

[OgtheDim]

Lovitz near him at one point then he goes real wide and nobody picks him up again - there was a bit a few years ago by Pep talking about just this - he just walks around looking at space being aware of opportunities.

Its a privilege to watch him so close in our league now.

[JoesphNdo]

Lovitz near him at one point then he goes real wide and nobody picks him up again - there was a bit a few years ago by Pep talking about just this - he just walks around looking at space being aware of opportunities.

Its a privilege to watch him so close in our league now.

Yeah there's a sort of narrative built up recently that Messi has adjusted his game and now spends 90% of the game at walking pace and it's a sign of age

While I'm sure he presses less than he used too, Messi has always been like this to a large extent. I remember going to see him in 2011, as the best player in the world on the best team ever assembled, and a non football hardcore friend of mine who went commenting on how shocked they were that he was just standing around for most of the game. And it was true. Pep, who managed him a decade ago, said "He's walking... That's what I like the most. He is not out of the game, he's involved. He's moving his head: right, left, left, right. He knows exactly what is going to happen. But his head is always like this [Guardiola turns his head left and right]. He's always moving. "He's not running, but he's always watching what's happening. He smells where are the weak points in the back four. After five, ten minutes, he has the map in his eyes, in his brain to know exactly where is the space and what is the panorama. It's like being in the jungle and I have to survive. And he knows if I move here, here, I will have more space to attack."

He's someone who is ruthless with knowing when to move and when you'd just be moving for the sake of not being accused of being lazy. He pressed like a terrier dog when the time was right, but knew when it wasn't. It's a fascinating part of his game that should be studied, but it's not particularly new - maybe slightly more extreme than before

[jloome]

Yeah there's a sort of narrative built up recently that Messi has adjusted his game and now spends 90% of the game at walking pace and it's a sign of age

While I'm sure he presses less than he used too, Messi has always been like this to a large extent. I remember going to see him in 2011, as the best player in the world on the best team ever assembled, and a non football hardcore friend of mine who went commenting on how shocked they were that he was just standing around for most of the game. And it was true. Pep, who managed him a decade ago, said "He's walking... That's what I like the most. He is not out of the game, he's involved. He's moving his head: right, left, left, right. He knows exactly what is going to happen. But his head is always like this [Guardiola turns his head left and right]. He's always moving. "He's not running, but he's always watching what's happening. He smells where are the weak points in the back four. After five, ten minutes, he has the map in his eyes, in his brain to know exactly where is the space and what is the panorama. It's like being in the jungle and I have to survive. And he knows if I move here, here, I will have more space to attack."

He's someone who is ruthless with knowing when to move and when you'd just be moving for the sake of not being accused of being lazy. He pressed like a terrier dog when the time was right, but knew when it wasn't. It's a fascinating part of his game that should be studied, but it's not particularly new - maybe slightly more extreme than before

I was talking to some Barca fans online yesterday. He ran the pitch most of the time prior to 2013, when he had an injury. Since then, he has deliberately limited his off-the-ball movement to preserve his strength, basically.

I don't know if you saw the video of him walking around before his goal against Nashville. IT's instructive. He walks constantly, but since he isn't relied on to play defence, he can hang around the midfield and by the time the transitional play switches to the offensive end of the pitch, he's hustled into the right position.

Can't imagine how lethal he was when he was mobile, can't really remember it now.

[JoesphNdo]

I was talking to some Barca fans online yesterday. He ran the pitch most of the time prior to 2013, when he had an injury. Since then, he has deliberately limited his off-the-ball movement to preserve his strength, basically.

I don't know if you saw the video of him walking around before his goal against Nashville. IT's instructive. He walks constantly, but since he isn't relied on to play defence, he can hang around the midfield and by the time the transitional play switches to the offensive end of the pitch, he's hustled into the right position.

Can't imagine how lethal he was when he was mobile, can't really remember it now.

I can't offer a substantial disagreement beyond saying 'that's not how I remember it', if they lived in Barcelona and were regulars at the Camp Nou though I'd trust them over me 100%, I've only seen him live a few times and memory is a funny thing.

But, I certainly always remember being fascinated by how much walking and how little running he did under Peps Barcelona. As I said, when he had to press, he pressed like a demented animal as did that entire team. But he was always selective about it, and it was always in bursts. It's possible this got more extreme over time, but to me it's always been in his game and as I said a conversation I remember having after watching him live in 2011 with someone shocked that we could rate this guy who just stood around the whole game. She genuinely thought he must be crap. As I said he probably got far more extreme, maybe directly after the injury, but it's always been there in some way shape or form

I view his walking as a strength and something to be studied, not a weakness. Basically when the GOAT does something different to anyone else and produces output higher than anyone else, chances are it's him seeing something they don't. His movement is an incredibly hard thing to track, and fascinating to watch in action as it defies everything you were ever told as a kid learning the game. If I walked like that in my u12 team I'd have been subbed by minute 20 so it's always been something really interesting to me

[Mr. Inbetween]

This is simply unreal.

https://x.com/joepompliano/status/1693727222132015121?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

Like the lion prowling the plains of the Serengeti among the poor gazelles.

[jloome]

This is simply unreal.

https://x.com/joepompliano/status/1693727222132015121?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

What struck me wasn't that he walked for three straight minutes. It's that he's doing it to very precise, specific field locations to watch what's going on. He moves between the points where it's mostly likely he'll need to be when he starts running.

A few times in the video, he looks up and checks the line of where he's walking and his target, even though he's clearly not facing the play. In other words, he's figured out the exact positions he needs to be in at any point to read the play and where the space will be.

There's more prescribed movement and "pattern of play" in his strolling than there was in any of our buildup last week.

[Richard]

What struck me wasn't that he walked for three straight minutes. It's that he's doing it to very precise, specific field locations to watch what's going on. He moves between the points where it's mostly likely he'll need to be when he starts running.

A few times in the video, he looks up and checks the line of where he's walking and his target, even though he's clearly not facing the play. In other words, he's figured out the exact positions he needs to be in at any point to read the play and where the space will be.

There's more prescribed movement and "pattern of play" in his strolling than there was in any of our buildup last week.

Now we're going to get every youth player copying that and be like "well the goat does it", "work smarter than harder!". Lol.

In all seriousness that must be so annoying for defenders or anyone asked to mark him, you feel like your just sucked into false sense of security, or questioning your contribution by marking a guy going for a stroll.

[jloome]

Now we're going to get every youth player copying that and be like "well the goat does it", "work smarter than harder!". Lol.

In all seriousness that must be so annoying for defenders or anyone asked to mark him, you feel like your just sucked into false sense of security, or questioning your contribution by marking a guy going for a stroll.

I've seen a few quotes from former players lately about it. It's just so easy to lose track of him because he's so nonchalant in it. They let him get behind them because they figure a) the play is on their other side, so they have to look away and b) he's just walking anyway, so easy to track if he begins a run.

But Messi is like any great forward. He watches the defenders, waits to see when their attention is drawn away. He has as much eye on them as the ball.

Seba did this brilliantly as well. Of our current squad, Coello is exceptional at it; his head is always on a swivel. He's not the most adroit, limber midfielder but he rarely coughs up the ball and his long passing completion rate is excellent.

[jloome]

Incidentally, for anyone with a VEE Pee En, Miami's Open cup game is on CBS Golazo tonight, a free streaming service in the U.S.

EDIT: Never mind, they've moved it to Paramount+, the subscription streamer.

[jloome]

Like the lion prowling the plains of the Serengeti among the poor gazelles.

That's a pretty perfect metaphor.