Match Day 15 - DCU @ TFC Sat May 27 7:39pm - There's a black hat caught [Archive]

jloome

05-23-2023, 09:35 AM

Hmm, tasteless jokes aren’t my forte… but wasn’t the last time a manager was fired (if we’re not including Perez’s not being rehired), wasn’t there a DP star awol who had a dust up with the manager and refused to play?

I believe there was. He ended up in New England. But we can't do that with the current guy. Any salary we eat, which would be most of it, would still be a charge against us too big to be able to replace him.

I imagine what is presently going on at MLSE is they are having meetings drenched in frustration in which Manning is asking Bob "how do we fix this", and Bob is reassuring him that once some of the injured players are back, it'll all turn around.

But we know that's bullshit. He probably won't be fired in the next week; my office source said they were giving him at least four more games to turn it around, the run at home, and that was before the last game away. By that measure, he still has four home fixtures to get wins before they'll pull the trigger.

The Italians have possibly changed that equation, however. If Insigne sits out and refuses to play for him, his agent already knows from the Emmanuel Reynoso situation at Minnesota that the league is toothless and can basically do nothing about it. Reynoso missed the first 12 games of the season, apologized for doing so... and is back on the team. It cost him nothing to stay in Argentina and deal with what was reportedly a failing marriage and a minor assault charge for slapping a kid, against the team's wishes.

los sonadores

05-23-2023, 10:15 AM

I believe there was. He ended up in New England. But we can't do that with the current guy. Any salary we eat, which would be most of it, would still be a charge against us too big to be able to replace him.

I imagine what is presently going on at MLSE is they are having meetings drenched in frustration in which Manning is asking Bob "how do we fix this", and Bob is reassuring him that once some of the injured players are back, it'll all turn around.

But we know that's bullshit. He probably won't be fired in the next week; my office source said they were giving him at least four more games to turn it around, the run at home, and that was before the last game away. By that measure, he still has four home fixtures to get wins before they'll pull the trigger.

The Italians have possibly changed that equation, however. If Insigne sits out and refuses to play for him, his agent already knows from the Emmanuel Reynoso situation at Minnesota that the league is toothless and can basically do nothing about it. Reynoso missed the first 12 games of the season, apologized for doing so... and is back on the team. It cost him nothing to stay in Argentina and deal with what was reportedly a failing marriage and a minor assault charge for slapping a kid, against the team's wishes.

Eventually New England but Armas’ firing after we lost to DC was Jozy’s immediate return to the club.

I guess it will depend on what LI and Bernie do? If Insigne refuses to play and Bernie plays half heartedly it’d be tough to make the case that all will be well after a few more guys get back.

jloome

05-23-2023, 10:19 AM

We will be very fortunate if DC doesn't spank us. They're playing like a team that has three recent Premier League players in its starting lineup.

ag futbol

05-23-2023, 10:22 AM

Just my guess but if the Italians have lost confidence in Bob and there’s probably a chunk of the rest of the team that’s not far behind.

He has insulate himself somewhat by bringing in his own guys but the walls can only hold up so long.

This is definitely a “when” not “if” scenario in terms of Bradley being removed.

ag futbol

05-23-2023, 10:29 AM

Eventually New England but Armas’ firing after we lost to DC was Jozy’s immediate return to the club.

I guess it will depend on what LI and Bernie do? If Insigne refuses to play and Bernie plays half heartedly it’d be tough to make the case that all will be well after a few more guys get back.
Short of the Italians agreeing to take a pay cut and go back to Europe it would appear the parties involved are stuck together.

It was easier to isolate Altidore from the team. If they did that with the Italians MLS HO would be fielding angry calls from D’Amico and others with real sway in the world game.

The most movable pieces here are Bradley and Manning and that’s eventually what will break IMO.

los sonadores

05-23-2023, 10:39 AM

Short of the Italians agreeing to take a pay cut and go back to Europe it would appear the parties involved are stuck together.

It was easier to isolate Altidore from the team. If they did that with the Italians MLS HO would be fielding angry calls from D’Amico and others with real sway in the world game.

The most movable pieces here are Bradley and Manning and that’s eventually what will break IMO.

Yeah, it seems very unlikely you freeze out Insigne like the morons Curtis and Armas did with Jozy. I don’t imagine that’s Bob’s style either (or if it is, it’s foolish)… but if it’s true that LI had words with BB and refused to play in Austin it’s not impossible that he refuses to play again until Bob is gone. “Lorenzo Insigne does not want to work with Bob Bradley” was the ExtraTime quote.

Graeme

05-23-2023, 10:45 AM

Yeah, it seems very unlikely you freeze out Insigne like the morons Curtis and Armas did with Jozy. I don’t imagine that’s Bob’s style either (or if it is, it’s foolish)… but if it’s true that LI had words with BB and refused to play in Austin it’s not impossible that he refuses to play again until Bob is gone. “Lorenzo Insigne does not want to work with Bob Bradley” was the ExtraTime quote.

Well, honestly, we've played better without him this year, so not a big loss.

ag futbol

05-23-2023, 10:49 AM

Yeah, it seems very unlikely you freeze out Insigne like the morons Curtis and Armas did with Jozy. I don’t imagine that’s Bob’s style either (or if it is, it’s foolish)… but if it’s true that LI had words with BB and refused to play in Austin it’s not impossible that he refuses to play again until Bob is gone. “Lorenzo Insigne does not want to work with Bob Bradley” was the ExtraTime quote.
That’s fair. I mean it is an effective way to state your displeasure.

Sad our media can’t point out what appears to be right there in the open.

OgtheDim

05-23-2023, 10:59 AM

los sonadores

05-23-2023, 11:02 AM

That’s fair. I mean it is an effective way to state your displeasure.

Sad our media can’t point out what appears to be right there in the open.

Quite incredible, really. Kaylyn Kyle said something like ‘I asked what was going on and that’s what I told. I don’t know anything more.’ Someone in town couldn’t do that? I guess we’re still waiting on confirmation.

It seems it’s all about the zoom press conferences and not much else… but of course we watch those too. There’s not much other content found in the news stories. When there are news stories - it’s pretty much only Davidson now. I read him because I like to read solid, well written pieces on my club but really that’s because I’m a fanatic. They’re rarely much more than one can get for oneself by simply watching the video made public.

ag futbol

05-23-2023, 11:22 AM

Quite incredible, really. Kaylyn Kyle said something like ‘I asked what was going on and that’s what I told. I don’t know anything more.’ Someone in town couldn’t do that? I guess we’re still waiting on confirmation.

It seems it’s all about the zoom press conferences and not much else… but of course we watch those too. There’s not much other content found in the news stories. When there are news stories - it’s pretty much only Davidson now. I read him because I like to read solid, well written pieces on my club but really that’s because I’m a fanatic. They’re rarely much more than one can get for oneself by simply watching the video made public.
It’s quite incredible how spineless they have all become. Do the various beat reporters left think writing the same puff piece as the next 5 guys is going to increase their readership?

You could make an entire career here out of printing obvious things as long as you’re comfortable with not always being in the club’s hood books. No special access or lame quotes needed.

SenorDingDong

05-23-2023, 11:56 AM

We will be very fortunate if DC doesn't spank us. They're playing like a team that has three recent Premier League players in its starting lineup.

Yep they are playing excellent recently and like a team.

Its kind of sad for us all these wooden spoon contenders - Montreal, DC, Kansas, NYRD have all managed to turn it around somewhat. Meanwhile we are sinking faster then basically anyone outside of LA Galaxy - who are also in their own absolute mess.

Hala Hrvatska

05-23-2023, 11:57 AM

If we lose again or draw...surely, that HAS to be the final straw and out go Manning and Bradley? Please tell me so....

jloome

05-23-2023, 12:04 PM

Yep they are playing excellent recently and like a team.

Its kind of sad for us all these wooden spoon contenders - Montreal, DC, Kansas, NYRD have all managed to turn it around somewhat. Meanwhile we are sinking faster then basically anyone outside of LA Galaxy - who are also in their own absolute mess.

I put Montreal to my office source; everyone keeps blaming injuries and roster change, nd only having 14 key players, or whatever their silly internal number is. But Bob has had FIFTY games now, the fourth most of any TFC manager (a sad statistic in and of itself). Meanwhile, Losada turned Montreal around in one off season despite losing seven starters and promoting two youth players to the first team.

If nothing else, I think we can all agree that Bob Bradley is an absolutely horseshit judge of talent. Not only did he tell them before THIS season that they could count on transfer funds from player sales despite having seen our youth for over a year, he also has let go more performing players than he's made stick with the first team.

OgtheDim

05-23-2023, 12:13 PM

No Tuesday media visits today - not unheard of in the past for there to be no avail until Thursday when its after a Saturday game on a long weekend.

I wouldn't conspiracy think this one too much.

NOW

Thursday - that one will be interesting.

Hah... I was WRONG - Davidson is at practice.

They messed me up - usually journos are there by 11 am. :prrr:

jloome

05-23-2023, 12:27 PM

Well, honestly, we've played better without him this year, so not a big loss.

If we'd actually played well at any point that would be some comfort.

Gringo Starr

05-23-2023, 02:59 PM

I put Montreal to my office source; everyone keeps blaming injuries and roster change, nd only having 14 key players, or whatever their silly internal number is. But Bob has had FIFTY games now, the fourth most of any TFC manager (a sad statistic in and of itself). Meanwhile, Losada turned Montreal around in one off season despite losing seven starters and promoting two youth players to the first team.

If nothing else, I think we can all agree that Bob Bradley is an absolutely horseshit judge of talent. Not only did he tell them before THIS season that they could count on transfer funds from player sales despite having seen our youth for over a year, he also has let go more performing players than he's made stick with the first team.

Thanks for sharing this stuff, I’m curious does your source know if BB took the job with the understanding that he would get a third DP or did he come into this knowing there was no more money being put up by MLSE. Also what would be the motivation for your source to speak?

ensco

05-23-2023, 03:06 PM

Also what would be the motivation for your source to speak?

Loneliness?

https://twitter.com/taj1944/status/1660702445499203584?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

ronzilla

05-23-2023, 03:08 PM

Hoping to wake up Sunday morning to those big, bold headlines. It's long overdue.

JoesphNdo

05-23-2023, 03:14 PM

Loneliness?

https://twitter.com/taj1944/status/1660702445499203584?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

That's an unfair comparison, at least we got 4 or so really good seasons out of GOT before it started unraveling

jloome

05-23-2023, 03:36 PM

Thanks for sharing this stuff, I’m curious does your source know if BB took the job with the understanding that he would get a third DP or did he come into this knowing there was no more money being put up by MLSE. Also what would be the motivation for your source to speak?

Mostly because I’m respecting their privacy by not printing what they tell me verbatim, it’s been an attempt to demonstrate why they made the decisions they did, although none of the explanations really has been anything we couldn’t surmise from common sense.

There’s possibly a sense that because I’m an ex-columnist and author with a fan club and stuff that I have influence over the fans to some respect, and that can be massaged from their end. It’s a little delusional; the only place I regularly post about TFC is here, and you useless bastards already know how wrong I can be, after sixteen years of this. Nobody here is taking chat as gospel.

Also, the source in question is one of several under extreme pressure, trying to do their job, but not having a lot of luck despite pursuing seemingly sensible choices. As such I do get a sense they appreciate some sympathy and respect. Not a ton of professional sympathy, as they’ve made good money making frankly terrible choices (albeit ones I may well have made myself).

But humanistic sympathy, certainly.

I suspect however that my latest conversation with them has led to the tactical decision to go back to their earlier quiet PR tack, which is to have some of their lowlier staff post on forums like this, undermining people’s opinion and generally being duplicitous under the guise of playing devils advocate.

My last message to them was pretty unequivocal, that from the fan perspective he’s got to go. If I felt or saw any real groundswell against that, I’d have told them that. But it’s only ever one or two posters who jump into these things to actually DEFEND the club’s behavior, no matter how poor it is. I suspect most regulars can figure out who they are.

EDIT On Bob and the DPs, my impression is he thought he would have three this year, as they’d planned to finance a third using young player sales that did not materialize (chiefly JMR, I suspect.)

ensco

05-23-2023, 03:41 PM

jloome

05-23-2023, 03:49 PM

I am going to go against trend on one important point (at the risk of repeating myself)…

Fede should not have gone public like that. He had a right to be heard, but he should have gone to Manning or, even better, Tanenbaum or Ed Rogers.

It doesn’t work when players do this. It leaves only bad options and it creates toxicity, it doesn’t stop it.

I expect him to do something to try to difuse this soon.

Problematically, I doubt he would even have thought of talking to them, as they are pretty hands off on team decisions.

He may have already tried to talk to Bob about it. A man who is confident in all his decisions is too confident.

Mr. Inbetween

05-23-2023, 05:22 PM

Is the silhouette in this image of the individual to the right of Lollo and Fede, in black, at the forefront and in front of the net, VV or just an assistant coach; maybe Roy Kent/Stalteri? I realize it is hard to tell...

https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1661045487439433731

jloome

05-23-2023, 05:32 PM

Does look a little like Victor. maybe he’s back.

Edit: As for DC, since we're in the game thread: all I'm hoping is that the staff took Fede's comment to heart and has worked this week on some pattern play, for when Bob ball is breaking down or the youth can't keep pace.

If the dude is a tactical genius, now would be the time to demonstrate it.

Gringo Starr

05-23-2023, 07:35 PM

Mostly because I’m respecting their privacy by not printing what they tell me verbatim, it’s been an attempt to demonstrate why they made the decisions they did, although none of the explanations really has been anything we couldn’t surmise from common sense.

There’s possibly a sense that because I’m an ex-columnist and author with a fan club and stuff that I have influence over the fans to some respect, and that can be massaged from their end. It’s a little delusional; the only place I regularly post about TFC is here, and you useless bastards already know how wrong I can be, after sixteen years of this. Nobody here is taking chat as gospel.

Also, the source in question is one of several under extreme pressure, trying to do their job, but not having a lot of luck despite pursuing seemingly sensible choices. As such I do get a sense they appreciate some sympathy and respect. Not a ton of professional sympathy, as they’ve made good money making frankly terrible choices (albeit ones I may well have made myself).

But humanistic sympathy, certainly.

I suspect however that my latest conversation with them has led to the tactical decision to go back to their earlier quiet PR tack, which is to have some of their lowlier staff post on forums like this, undermining people’s opinion and generally being duplicitous under the guise of playing devils advocate.

My last message to them was pretty unequivocal, that from the fan perspective he’s got to go. If I felt or saw any real groundswell against that, I’d have told them that. But it’s only ever one or two posters who jump into these things to actually DEFEND the club’s behavior, no matter how poor it is. I suspect most regulars can figure out who they are.

EDIT On Bob and the DPs, my impression is he thought he would have three this year, as they’d planned to finance a third using young player sales that did not materialize (chiefly JMR, I suspect.)
I know we have been crap before but I am amazed by the way the veneer has peeled away this time around, that they have lost control of the narrative especially without having to face a probing media. To see this happen to two dominant media companies is fascinating to me. I know you have mentioned everyone being siloed but the Dubas presser was wild and Shanahan’s to me reeked of self preservation. I just never expected people to get exposed in the way it’s playing out.

jloome

05-23-2023, 07:54 PM

I know we have been crap before but I am amazed by the way the veneer has peeled away this time around, that they have lost control of the narrative especially without having to face a probing media. To see this happen to two dominant media companies is fascinating to me. I know you have mentioned everyone being siloed but the Dubas presser was wild and Shanahan’s to me reeked of self preservation. I just never expected people to get exposed in the way it’s playing out.

I think it's quite rare for a company this large and overarching to also have to be forward-facing, because many of their customers are sports fans. Most large corporations only face this sort of scrutiny when they break the law or are life-threatening.

But sports is the most public, consistently accessed portion of the news -- in any country-- which is why it's so ideal for sportswashing by countries like the UAE and Saudi. Your narrative is out there every day.

The downside to that is it requires solid control over the outward message, or it's like having an entire government department meltdown: you quickly realize most of the time, the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing, because there are too many directors, too many departments, too many individualized fiefdoms of responsibility, too few people actively holding it all together.

OgtheDim

05-24-2023, 11:19 AM

FWIW

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1661404572693192704

SenorDingDong

05-24-2023, 12:05 PM

FWIW

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1661404572693192704

Was Diomande on a 1 year contract? I get the sense we will never see him or Vazquez this season.

Ultra & Proud

05-24-2023, 12:09 PM

Was Diomande on a 1 year contract? I get the sense we will never see him or Vazquez this season.

I think it's a two year deal because why not pay over $500K annually to a guy who didn't play much for a few years.

But we did get to see them both play. Just not very much and neither did anything worth the $800K+ they're burning this season.

ag futbol

05-24-2023, 12:13 PM

I think it's a two year deal because why not pay over $500K annually to a guy who didn't play much for a few years.

But we did get to see them both play. Just not very much and neither did anything worth the $800K+ they're burning this season.
Dio on anything more than a one year contract plus a one year team option would be criminal. He should of had basically zero leverage going into negotiations.

los sonadores

05-24-2023, 01:14 PM

Dio on anything more than a one year contract plus a one year team option would be criminal. He should have had basically zero leverage going into negotiations.

Yeah, so true. And he’s a big part of the reason we had virtually no striker through the first ten matches or so. That’s got to be the biggest signing failure so far. VV I figured we’d lucky if he got in a handful of meaningful games and I didn’t expect any full matches.

Mr. Inbetween

05-24-2023, 01:23 PM

Follow-up…

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1661407448652034048

MikeForbes

05-24-2023, 01:28 PM

Did we ever hear anything about Michael Bradley outside of him heading to England for a hamstring surgery?

Ultra & Proud

05-24-2023, 01:42 PM

Did we ever hear anything about Michael Bradley outside of him heading to England for a hamstring surgery?
Not a thing. No mention if he even had the surgery. Normally I would find that odd but this is TFC 2023 and they don't share info other than what the players are wearing when they get to the stadium and a couple of professional looking training photos a week with a witty caption under them.

jloome

05-24-2023, 01:43 PM

Did we ever hear anything about Michael Bradley outside of him heading to England for a hamstring surgery?

Not as bad as it could have been, eight to 10 weeks. So he'll be back with about a third of the season left.

OgtheDim

05-24-2023, 09:05 PM

Refs

Toronto FC vs D.C. United
BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
REF: Lukasz Szpala
AR1: Jason White
AR2: Chantal Boudreau
4TH: Sergii Demianchuk
VAR: Michael Radchuk
AVAR: Gjovalin Bori

Commentators

https://twitter.com/MLS_PR/status/1661356458187931648

Heldrith has done announcing for awhile - has partnered with St Aubin for awhile too. "The voice of NWSL"

Mr. Inbetween

05-25-2023, 10:09 AM

FWIW, regarding Insigne’s injury!? Also, not sure about this account; thoughts?

https://twitter.com/tfcnewsoutlet/status/1661562980499173380

Canary10

05-25-2023, 10:11 AM

FWIW, regarding Insigne’s injury!? Also, not sure about this account; thoughts?

https://twitter.com/tfcnewsoutlet/status/1661562980499173380

Kaylyn Kyle was the one who said he travelled, wasn't it?

ag futbol

05-25-2023, 10:27 AM

Kaylyn Kyle was the one who said he travelled, wasn't it?
Would seem to be an easy point of clarification, no? Picture of LI in Austin and Bob’s just painted himself into one more corner.

Canary10

05-25-2023, 10:30 AM

Would seem to be an easy point of clarification, no? Picture of LI in Austin and Bob’s just painted himself into one more corner.

I thought other players confirmed he didn't travel.

jloome

05-25-2023, 10:45 AM

I thought other players confirmed he didn't travel.

Yeah, Kaye did.

I suspect what has happened with Kyle, as its third-hand stuff through her hubbie, is that Harrison Heath heard about a dispute with Bernardeschi and that got confused with Insigne. The "he didn't travel" stuff could have been as easy as him surmising and then stating "that's why he didn't go to Austin," and just assuming it.

It's important to remember that even though she has an "in" at the team, she's not a reporter or journalist. She's an ex-player talking head announcer, with no experience in dealing with the nuance that can lead to misunderstandings.

ensco

05-25-2023, 10:59 AM

Mr. Inbetween

05-25-2023, 11:12 AM

Kaylyn Kyle was the one who said he travelled, wasn't it?

Sort of. Certainly amplified those 'reports/rumours'; poured gasoline on a fire. Except I understand they were basically from/originated with an identified well known Toronto-centric account that spreads falsehoods involving TFC. She is very opportunistic in her analyst commentary and pundit reporting; personal peeve of mine. Parsed her comments scrupulously, one needs to listen carefully, I was easily overwhelmed just by the totality of what was being stated... Lollo 'does not want to work with (? not play for!) Bob Bradley'. Certainly put the source spotlight, an unnecessary whitsle-blower target, on Richie! While not trying to minimize what may be unfolding, since I believe there are huge issues at TFC, there are days that I myself do not want to work with some people I work with/for and tell a colleague or two so and keep doing my job professionally.

jloome

05-25-2023, 11:51 AM

^If that is what happened, you are being too nice, jloome. Experienced journalist or not, she went out on a national platform with a bogus and defamatory story. She tweets multiple times a day. She needed to correct that yesterday.

She probably hasn't even noticed. I mean, it clearly didn't occur to her that Richie is going to be instantly outed as her source by many, as her husband played with him at Orlando. Many people know that. It's not a secret.

Yet not even an attempt to deflect by saying "a source within the league" or something that might've separated it but still been technically accurate.

She has no craft. She's just a talking head.

Canary10

05-25-2023, 12:56 PM

Sort of. Certainly amplified those 'reports/rumours'; poured gasoline on a fire. Except I understand they were basically from/originated with an identified well known Toronto-centric account that spreads falsehoods involving TFC. She is very opportunistic in her analyst commentary and pundit reporting; personal peeve of mine. Parsed her comments scrupulously, one needs to listen carefully, I was easily overwhelmed just by the totality of what was being stated... Lollo 'does not want to work with (? not play for!) Bob Bradley'. Certainly put the source spotlight, an unnecessary whitsle-blower target, on Richie! While not trying to minimize what may be unfolding, since I believe there are huge issues at TFC, there are days that I myself do not want to work with some people I work with/for and tell a colleague or two so and keep doing my job professionally.

Agreed, totally makes it look like Richie spilled the beans. Really poor form from her. Agree with Ensco as well.

nolimitag

05-25-2023, 03:11 PM

Anyone have 4 tickets for Saturday?

jloome

05-25-2023, 03:31 PM

Anyone have 4 tickets for Saturday?

Check the Reddit r/tfc forum tomorrow and Saturday morning. There's usually a half-dozen or more free pairs on offer from people who can't make it.

Slick

05-25-2023, 05:15 PM

I am not going to the game this weekend, and I'm not giving my seats away to a friend or a relative. I'll evaluate week over week if it will continue for the remainder of the season

rydermike

05-25-2023, 08:54 PM

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1661789941527879682

Mr. Inbetween

05-26-2023, 01:57 AM

Not as bad as it could have been, eight to 10 weeks. So he'll be back with about a third of the season left.

That seems to be the standard recovery time frame the Doc spiels for footballers. IMHO, TFC journos will need to ask if any 3D CT imaging has occurred post op as a follow-up; a self noted warning indicator that recovery progress will not be standard!

https://twitter.com/DocStijn/status/1192091746836058112

Mr. Inbetween

05-26-2023, 04:52 AM

Official! So expected to be in the line-up? We shall see.

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1661884861320429569

SenorDingDong

05-26-2023, 05:18 AM

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1661789941527879682

Diomande. Comes back for 1 game, then out for 3. Rinse and repeat.

Ultra & Proud

05-26-2023, 06:50 AM

Diomande. Comes back for 1 game, then out for 3. Rinse and repeat.
Solid use of $500K.

SenorDingDong

05-26-2023, 09:19 AM

Solid use of $500K.

Him and Akinola worst two contracts on the team.

1 million + between them.

Ultra & Proud

05-26-2023, 09:41 AM

Him and Akinola worst two contracts on the team.

1 million + between them.
Over $1M for no goals or even a hope of a goal.

At least Akinola tripped over the ball on that breakaway. We'll always have that memory of him. By winter I will have forgotten Diomande completely.

RealG-TFC

05-26-2023, 09:46 AM

Solid use of $500K.

For me, this is when BB jumped the shark. We were all either looking forward to a rested/determined Jiménez (a striker Bob brought) or for a DP striker. And Diomande is what we got.

ag futbol

05-26-2023, 09:54 AM

For me, this is when BB jumped the shark. We were all either looking forward to a rested/determined Jiménez (a striker Bob brought) or for a DP striker. And Diomande is what we got.
I used to think JJ was just not the right fit for our team. His never getting on the ball or being involved in the play was a sign of a poor fit. In retrospect, Bradley’s offence is defunct and our inability to involve our striker in the game is one of the biggest glaring flaws. Yes, JJ could be better at holdup play but even with Sapong (who is good at showing for the ball), we could go 10-15 minutes in a game without him getting a single touch.

MikeForbes

05-26-2023, 11:03 AM

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1662125205278322688?s=20

noxx98

05-26-2023, 11:45 AM

Fede just posted an Instagram story in training gear in the TFC locker room and a check mark next to the word training.
Maybe just an indoors maintenance day.

Mr. Inbetween

05-26-2023, 11:47 AM

The journos, we all, are jumpy! :)

MikeForbes

05-26-2023, 11:53 AM

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1662139452913860614?s=20

Areathrasher

05-26-2023, 11:53 AM

And Bob has suspended Berna. Fucking LOL. Joke.

MikeForbes

05-26-2023, 11:57 AM

We are gonna lose Bernie and keep Bob, aren't we?

Mr. Inbetween

05-26-2023, 11:59 AM

Guess BB is expecting to win this match and not get booed at all!?

ag futbol

05-26-2023, 12:02 PM

This feels like a last ditch, desperate attempt at narrative control. Throw the players under the bus for the club’s poor planning and shortcomings.

I’m going to tune out for a couple of games or until Bob is fired. It’s really pointless to follow this team at the moment. Just an exercise in raising your blood pressure.

OgtheDim

05-26-2023, 12:03 PM

Eff off Bb

Sorry, but no

You're a manager

Figure it out....
geez

Mr. Inbetween

05-26-2023, 12:04 PM

What accentuates this dysfunction for me is that Fede, for all intent and purposes, became/was TFC's poster boy and not Lollo; so something has really gone off the rails in terms of man-management for all this to have happen.

noxx98

05-26-2023, 12:06 PM

Time to go Bob

Ultra & Proud

05-26-2023, 12:09 PM

Bob is doing something I never thought I would see again. He is going full Marriner on the squad.

zamperina

05-26-2023, 12:28 PM

Time to go Bob

Fans going to the game need to get a chant going...Fire Bradley!

Or better yet sneak in a sign!

jloome

05-26-2023, 12:29 PM

Eff off Bb

Sorry, but no

You're a manager

Figure it out....
geez

I realize he feels the need for internal discipline, but he should extend that to himself and his asinine comments yesterday.

Now, it just looks like sour grapes for being called out. It looks as if he accepts none of the criticism, and suggests we can do as well without Fede against DC when we need a win.

This is insane.

They are so far behind the mood of the public and where this stands. But I know for a fucking fact that they were told weeks ago that the tactical mesh wasn't there, that he wasn't giving them the direction they need.

As an autistic person, I do not really have a capacity to "hate" anyone, so I have no ill will towards Bob at all. I'm sure from his own perspective, the way he's handling this is right and honorable. But it's going to get really ugly if they don't make a move soon.

I chatted with my office source today and they are still, I suspect, in a slight holding pattern. The impetus isn't there yet to make the decision today but "frustrations are high".

I didn't ask as it didn't occur to me until afterward, but I do wonder if they're waiting for Michael to return in the hopes he can "smooth" this over. My worse fear is they have him getting his badges while overseas for the pre-supposed half-measure of kicking Bob "upstairs." That would be even more disastrous. Michael is an iron competitor, but he does not have the temperament for management. He's too intense and not even close to personal enough.

ensco

05-26-2023, 12:29 PM

It was either this, or fire BB.

Unsurprising, really. Happened with Jozy in Armas' last days. Bob has the keys, until he doesn’t.

SenorDingDong

05-26-2023, 12:32 PM

Yea this is getting insane. He's benching Berna for his words?

There needs to be a major fan protest against Bob and in support of Berna tomorrow.

Hala Hrvatska

05-26-2023, 12:34 PM

If we lose tomorrow...and if endless boo-ing...minimal crowd (despite it technicall a "sell out")...is that the final straw for MLSE?

Or are they allowing bradley to burn everythign to the ground again....

Wonder what MB's advice/role in this move is....curious. You'd think he'd be able to tell dad this is insane and won't end well for not only bob but him too....

Ultra & Proud

05-26-2023, 12:37 PM

Wonder what MB's advice/role in this move is....curious.

If he's smart he stuck around in London for a while.

Canary10

05-26-2023, 12:41 PM

Mighta been better to just get an idea of football.

Graeme

05-26-2023, 12:47 PM

I'd like to see us play with Ritchie in Berna's spot. Suspect the flow might be a bit better...

Amir.

05-26-2023, 12:55 PM

its not good to miss bernardeschi but with his comments there was no other way for the coaching staff...if you let it go you open the door to players publicly criticizing you

benito

05-26-2023, 01:06 PM

What a mess.

jloome

05-26-2023, 01:24 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he has four home games, as my source suggested, to turn things around.

But I get the sense we might see something sooner if we get crushed this weekend.

OgtheDim

05-26-2023, 01:27 PM

Mighta been better to just get an idea of football.

Yeh, that is my thoughts.

Have a conversation - move on.

noxx98

05-26-2023, 01:28 PM

I think we still lose, but I'm putting money on Insigne scoring a great solo goal once we're down to make it 3-1. Almost a bit of a "Fuck you BB, I'll do it myself" type goal

Canary10

05-26-2023, 01:28 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he has four home games, as my source suggested, to turn things around.

But I get the sense we might see something sooner if we get crushed this weekend.

Don't all our historical coaching changes happen after a beating from DC United?

ag futbol

05-26-2023, 01:30 PM

Sportsnet headline “Disgruntled Italian Federico Bernardeschi benched for TFC game against D.C. United”

Way to gloss over the real issue guys.

ronzilla

05-26-2023, 01:31 PM

BB trying to flex muscle, little does he know it will come back to bite him, in a big way.

What a jackass.

Adios.

OgtheDim

05-26-2023, 02:31 PM

I go to games because I enjoy many aspects of the experience.

I fully expect us to be crushed m

I am still going.

There was a 5 year old girl behind me my last game at BMO. I suspect she doesn't care about vaping or who's a son of whom or how the tactics play.

I can't be that niave anymore.

But I will go

Initial B

05-26-2023, 04:27 PM

That Atlantic article coming out the day before a game? Yeah, we're going to get thumped because tomorrow is going to be a hostile environment for the home side. I'm betting another 2-0 loss, but if they get completely thumped then we know the situation is irreparable.

Richard

05-26-2023, 04:54 PM

So do we all think Insigne will still play after that shock reveal?

This is going to be a shitshow.

portu

05-26-2023, 05:08 PM

I hope Insigne boycotts tomorrow.

So unacceptable.

I was borderline on getting seasons again this year. I am very glad I didn’t.

ag futbol

05-26-2023, 05:11 PM

So do we all think Insigne will still play after that shock reveal?

This is going to be a shitshow.
I’d sit it out if I were him. Feed Bob to the wolves.

SenorDingDong

05-26-2023, 06:04 PM

I hope Insigne boycotts tomorrow.

So unacceptable.

I was borderline on getting seasons again this year. I am very glad I didn’t.

Regardless, he should play. He is a professional player with a contract. I mean we KNOW how he feels. Doing something like sitting out just kills any future chances of him joining a team.

reggie

05-26-2023, 07:08 PM

Regardless, he should play. He is a professional player with a contract. I mean we KNOW how he feels. Doing something like sitting out just kills any future chances of him joining a team.

if bob is going down with the ship.he should not play LI tomorrow.i hope he sits him.i want this to implode so they have to clean house

spe18

05-26-2023, 10:26 PM

Bernardeschi story has reached the British tabloids:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/major-league-soccer/article-12130093/Italy-international-Federico-Bernardeschi-VAPING-planes-practice-Toronto.html

Mr. Inbetween

05-27-2023, 01:02 AM

los sonadores

05-27-2023, 01:35 AM

We may yet see just how divided the TFC dressing room really is by or during match-time. How well, of those fielded, each play; if hearts are in it. Perhaps, even a possibility, if a team is fielded at all, in the case there is a player boycott/revolt of the coach; which may intern suddenly see an interim on the touch-line and with Fede playing? A lot may happen in the next hours, just as has happened in these past hours.

One feature of Sporting Director Bradley’s tenure has been extreme stuff when it comes to “my kind of guy” and “not my kind of guy”. The 33 guys out in a season and a half was and is very extreme. Usually managers find ways to work with players who they might not love but know they need and can get real contributions from. If he had a GM working properly above him I don’t think the carnage would have been as extreme because what he did was unworkable and a recipe for disaster.

So maybe it’s not surprising the camps are divided. I think this ‘all in it’ or ‘all out’ approach crippled us last season because quite a few of the players unceremoniously shipped out were some of the better players and who knew how to play. We ended up with kids playing out of position and of course that went badly.

Mr. Inbetween

05-27-2023, 01:58 AM

^
You might be right. IDK what to think anymore. I am all over the place on aspects of this story. What is actually true, from what has be stated? The simmering dysfunction is just so bat-shit crazy! A lot of it speculated about in the past on the very Threads of this Forum! Wow!

https://twitter.com/Plasma_Wine/status/1662276359819784194

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 04:36 AM

I hope Insigne boycotts tomorrow.

I hope too..

If Insigne will not boycott, it means that he is not on the same page with Berna, and will never be.
And in this case the team should get rid of one of these guys, no matter who will be the new coach.

PawTar711

05-27-2023, 05:34 AM

Will be at the game in the "corner" wearing my Wisla scarf.

Gringo Starr

05-27-2023, 05:52 AM

I wonder where some of the other guys sit-like Oso, Richie, SJ, Hedges which side are they leaning to- was there consensus among the supposed leadership group that the Fede benching needed to be done.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 06:22 AM

Weather is nice today - expect a decent crowd.

Most people going either

a) don't know about what has happened

or

b) don't care cause they are there for the event

*********

I support the team - I'll be there tonight.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 06:37 AM

In Commuting news

Harbourfront streetcars replaced by buses this weekend....

https://twitter.com/TTChelps/status/1662418994383532034

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 07:33 AM

MATCH DAY!

:drum:

For me is the most important TFC match in the last 3 years and 5 months, because after this one we can have some good conclusions on what to expect until the end of the 2024 season.

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 07:47 AM

To add a lighter ray to a gloom and doom atmosphere, you know who's the whisest "person" on this whole forum?

That must be a certain poster's "dog", who lately doesn't even bother about TFC!
I mean we all know that for all these matches this year he would say "I'm not impressed", but he's wise to not even bother any more losing time to give his opinion.

PS: Yeah, I knew we're going to have (yet another) full of shit season, just a few games into the season, because of the absence of his opinion about these matches...

Canary10

05-27-2023, 07:49 AM

Regardless, he should play. He is a professional player with a contract. I mean we KNOW how he feels. Doing something like sitting out just kills any future chances of him joining a team.

Agreed.

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 07:56 AM

Regardless, he should play. He is a professional player with a contract. I mean we KNOW how he feels. Doing something like sitting out just kills any future chances of him joining a team.

I also agree, he should play.
Which does not mean he should play to his fullest capability (far from that!)... I would be shocked if he does so.
In this latter case it would mean that he has a truly poisonous relation with Fede - he dislikes Fede more than he dislikes BB.

Canary10

05-27-2023, 08:14 AM

NK Toronto

05-27-2023, 08:21 AM

I’m with you. It might be a train wreck but it’s our train wreck.

"It Might Be A Train Wreck But It's Our Train Wreck" should replace "All For One" as the club's new slogan. At least it's true.

Canary10

05-27-2023, 08:23 AM

This should replace "All For One" as the club's new slogan. At least it's true.

Lol!

NK Toronto

05-27-2023, 08:37 AM

Lol!

You should secure the marketing rights. The new slogan could be printed on this season's home jersey.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 09:02 AM

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 09:09 AM

I would whole heartly stay away from anything to do with shuttle buses. Take the King St. streetcar or GO from Union.

In Commuting news

Harbourfront streetcars replaced by buses this weekend....

https://twitter.com/TTChelps/status/1662418994383532034

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 09:11 AM

As I have always said the supporters are the hyperhole of TFC. Things that matter to use, very few care about. For most it is about the event, the evening/afternoon out. Have a good time, have a few beers, maybe see a few goals etc.

Weather is nice today - expect a decent crowd.

Most people going either

a) don't know about what has happened

or

b) don't care cause they are there for the event

*********

I support the team - I'll be there tonight.

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 09:44 AM

As I have always said the supporters are the hyperhole of TFC. Things that matter to use, very few care about. For most it is about the event, the evening/afternoon out. Have a good time, have a few beers, maybe see a few goals etc.

This is not valid only for TFC, but for the whole professional US+Canada football.

This is a brutal contrast between the European professional football going peple and US + Canada professional football going people.
By football going people I'm lumping in everybody present at a match: supporters, fans, football lovers. Some weks ago I wanted to make a tread about this contrast, but then I dropped the idea...

In Europe they go for the love of the game, if for not for the love of one of the teams. So if not demanding results from the team they are sided with, at least they are demanding a good level of play.

In US and Canada it's just a good time out social event, meeting friends, having good talks about anything, not only the match & the teams, having drinks, eating, etc. This also explains that tons of people always arrive good 10 minutes after match starts, 10 minutes before half time go to stay in fucking lines to get drinks and food, then coming back 10 minutes later, then yet again 10 minutes before game ends a ton of people are leaving. This shit isn't happening in Europe.

I don't know about South America, Asia or Africa, but I suppose it's the same like in Europe.
If this offends anyone, sorry, but I speak like an European, who until was 30 years old, went to probably well over 100 matches in 2 countries' top divisions, and a few dozen in the 2nd division.

Another sharp difference:

No fucking way that more than 1/3 of the stadium should be full ever, until things start to change in positive for TFC!!

That would happen in any of the professional leagues in Euro, when a team spends that much like TFC and has these kinds of results in the competition.
There people who really support a team understand to support by this attitude, because this is the best way to make they voices heard, besides protesting at matches with songs, banners, boos, leaving en masse (the supporter groups) very early in matches.

But no, in US+Canada real supporters always support the boys by being at the game, no matter what...
For someone raised in another football coulture that is the definition of nonsense.

ManUtd4ever

05-27-2023, 09:48 AM

I don't have it in me to hope for a loss but if another disappointing result on home soil will accelerate the process of hiring a new manager, then so be it.

Ultra & Proud

05-27-2023, 10:26 AM

I don't have it in me to hope for a loss but if another disappointing result on home soil will accelerate the process of hiring a new manager, then so be it.
You don't need to hope for it. The question is whether we can keep our goalless streak going to challenge the 2007 record or if we can go 3+ matches without a shot on target. What is the record for longest run without a shot on target? Give us all the shitty records.

JoesphNdo

05-27-2023, 10:28 AM

The bookmakers have us as a marginal favourite to win this, though still rate us at lower than 50% to do so. Seems crazy to me but who knows, they're definitely more optimistic than we are

noxx98

05-27-2023, 10:34 AM

The bookmakers have us as a marginal favourite to win this, though still rate us at lower than 50% to do so. Seems crazy to me but who knows, they're definitely more optimistic than we are
The line barely moved after it came out that Berna was out. I feel like the bookmakers really don't know how to set the lines for MLS, or they overly weight home field advantage.

JoesphNdo

05-27-2023, 10:37 AM

The line barely moved after it came out that Berna was out. I feel like the bookmakers really don't know how to set the lines for MLS, or they overly weight home field advantage.

Over weighting home advantage in MLS is a sound strategy to be fair but this one is weird. The bookmakers don't even have to notice or pay attention, if the market notices that alone pushes the odds (otherwise you could destroy the bookmakers on niche leagues you study). I can't really explain today's odds, it's downright weird.

Canary10

05-27-2023, 10:56 AM

This is not valid only for TFC, but for the whole professional US+Canada football.

This is a brutal contrast between the European professional football going peple and US + Canada professional football going people.
By football going people I'm lumping in everybody present at a match: supporters, fans, football lovers. Some weks ago I wanted to make a tread about this contrast, but then I dropped the idea...

In Europe they go for the love of the game, if for not for the love of one of the teams. So if not demanding results from the team they are sided with, at least they are demanding a good level of play.

In US and Canada it's just a good time out social event, meeting friends, having good talks about anything, not only the match & the teams, having drinks, eating, etc. This also explains that tons of people always arrive good 10 minutes after match starts, 10 minutes before half time go to stay in fucking lines to get drinks and food, then coming back 10 minutes later, then yet again 10 minutes before game ends a ton of people are leaving. This shit isn't happening in Europe.

I don't know about South America, Asia or Africa, but I suppose it's the same like in Europe.
If this offends anyone, sorry, but I speak like an European, who until was 30 years old, went to probably well over 100 matches in 2 countries' top divisions, and a few dozen in the 2nd division.

Another sharp difference:

No fucking way that more than 1/3 of the stadium should be full ever, until things start to change in positive for TFC!!

That would happen in any of the professional leagues in Euro, when a team spends that much like TFC and has these kinds of results in the competition.
There people who really support a team understand to support by this attitude, because this is the best way to make they voices heard, besides protesting at matches with songs, banners, boos, leaving en masse (the supporter groups) very early in matches.

But no, in US+Canada real supporters always support the boys by being at the game, no matter what...
For someone raised in another football coulture that is the definition of nonsense.

I don’t know about that. Old Trafford has been full the last decade.

JoesphNdo

05-27-2023, 11:00 AM

I don’t know about that. Old Trafford has been full the last decade.

Yeah I think that's a romanticized view of Europe's top flights, at least at the truly top of the pryamid. A decent % at any top English game are tourists in for the day. It's been a long, long, long time since top English stadiums (and same for the other big teams) stadiums were filled with hardcore fans

Hell, in maybe 2000? 2001? Roy Keane got in trouble for ranting about exactly this, saying how good mid week games were because less people flew in for it and referring to Manchester United weekend fans as "the prawn sandwich brigade". That was over 20 years ago, and it's only gone further in that direction. Teams there don't sell to local working class people they sell weekend trips and they're open about that (remember "legacy fans"?)

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 11:21 AM

The bookmakers have us as a marginal favourite to win this, though still rate us at lower than 50% to do so. Seems crazy to me but who knows, they're definitely more optimistic than we are
I think tonight we either roll over and die or the team comes super fired up.

What happens if we win? Lol

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 11:33 AM

I think tonight we either roll over and die or the team comes super fired up.

What happens if we win? Lol

We cheer....and thank them for a job well done...

JoesphNdo

05-27-2023, 11:40 AM

I think tonight we either roll over and die or the team comes super fired up.

What happens if we win? Lol

What if we win because insigne puts the team on his back and bags a hat trick? Does that make bobs position better or worse? Lots of interesting outcomes from tonight, it will definitely be telling

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 11:43 AM

The bookmakers have us as a marginal favourite to win this, though still rate us at lower than 50% to do so. Seems crazy to me but who knows, they're definitely more optimistic than we are

Bookmakers in most cases are right.
IMHO this one has a 0-0 or 1-1 type draw written all over it (I'm not believing this because off the bookie lines).

Bobo

05-27-2023, 11:52 AM

What a bizarre feeling going into this one. The only intrigue is to see whether the players have any fucks left to give or actively try to get Bob out. And the shame associated with potentially wanting the latter to happen.

The absolute fucking state of this club.

tfcfans

05-27-2023, 11:56 AM

This is funny - I was just about to come on here and talk about gambling thinking I was the only one thinking the line of DC as a slight underdog is weird - I guess it’s not just me - I am hammering DC tonight and will be happy to be proven to be wrong but I’ve been betting against us all year and it’s proven quite profitable - usually betting on losses on the road, and ties at home - tonight just has the “Armas Out” potential written all over it where the team simply quits on the coach — maybe a little money on some wild goal totals too (put like $5-$10 on 5+ or 7+ total goals or some crazy crap like that).

Other picks for tonight - I am thinking St Louis and Seattle at home tonight too - Vegas over Dallas (over 5.5 goals total) and Butler over in points against the Celtics -

No point talking about soccer anymore frankly - the best thing that happened to them this season is that no one is watching them disintegrate thanks to Apple TV.

ManUtd4ever

05-27-2023, 12:20 PM

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/star-winger-federico-bernardeschi-defiant-141222349.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADBkXPxwKvEqzhsNatE0pudyPMFT-LH9zSDXMIB5Dw_i_50D95CjMS6dX7Bt7o5pQBaxBpn53mMoe2Y-VAzkhpqUOG1y8rK637o1kh13_pHOUrDrnvkP6TtvtvB9qafr4C ISTBROwodjvgMwO0unG-3cIYRpXnxq1wfsWduPsjh7

TORONTO — Disgruntled Toronto FC (https://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/teams/toronto-fc/) star Federico Bernardeschi (https://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/players/372348) took to social media for a defiant response to being benched by coach Bob Bradley.Bernardeschi, who has 2.8 million followers on Instagram, shared his position in a two-part Instagram story.
The first portion showed an unsmiling Bernardeschi in front of his Toronto FC locker with a box next to the word "Workout" being ticked to the musical accompaniment of "Can't Stop Me Now" by American alternative rock duo The Score.
"I've climbed so many mountains, each one's another test," says the song. "It's hard to breathe when it's just you against your Everest. They say what doesn't kill you will only make you stronger. Guess I can shake the world and take the pain a little longer."
"Can't stop me now," says the refrain. "And heavy is the head that wears the crown."
The second part was a review of the Italian's statistics through the first 14 games of the season: best goal-scorer, best-per-game average chances created, most key passes per game, second-best assist provider, second-most shots on target and second-most percentage dribbles succeeded.

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 12:30 PM

Ultra & Proud

05-27-2023, 12:32 PM

What if we win because insigne puts the team on his back and bags a hat trick? Does that make bobs position better or worse? Lots of interesting outcomes from tonight, it will definitely be telling

I don't think it's possible. At this rate I'd be impressed if we got a hat trick of shots on target but that seems too long a shot as well.

jloome

05-27-2023, 12:50 PM

jloome

05-27-2023, 12:57 PM

What if we win because insigne puts the team on his back and bags a hat trick? Does that make bobs position better or worse? Lots of interesting outcomes from tonight, it will definitely be telling

Based on my source’s take on things, I have at least a small worry that Bob has convinced them this is “poisonous” Bernardeschi, and that as soon as he’s gone, we’re going to start performing better. When the reality is that even if it helped sitting him, we’re tactically shit, and the players are so tense we’re more likely to trip over a ball than get a foot on it.

spe18

05-27-2023, 01:01 PM

We’re going to get killed 2-0 at best. They’re much improved. I hate Apple and its shitty digital keyboard for wiping out this post three fucking times before finished.

They’ve only lost once in seven games. Benteke, O’Brien and Klisch make them extremely dangerous, they have high work rates, and a manager with a clue.

At the same time, if I heard correctly, mainz had lost 4 in a row coming in to today, and managed to eventually tie dortmand today to knock them out of the top spot - and that was on the road.

los sonadores

05-27-2023, 01:07 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he has four home games, as my source suggested, to turn things around.

But I get the sense we might see something sooner if we get crushed this weekend.

I can’t see things turned around with the Italians on the roster. So we may as well get shelled for better or worse.

At any rate I don’t see them scoring less than two and for us one would be an achievement. Maybe Insigne and Sapong can begin seeing each other again like they did in Sapong’s debut.

A bit interesting in that DC and us were shit last year and this years been a different story.

los sonadores

05-27-2023, 01:17 PM

Based on my source’s take on things, I have at least a small worry that Bob has convinced them this is “poisonous” Bernardeschi, and that as soon as he’s gone, we’re going to start performing better. When the reality is that even if it helped sitting him, we’re tactically shit, and the players are so tense we’re more likely to trip over a ball than get a foot on it.

It must be driving Bradley nuts. Last season he didn’t seem to been able to tolerate the slightest neutrality or anything other than 110% hung ho… now he’s got his two best, most storied players who have not wanted to play with since last year (in Insigne’s) case and are continuing to mutiny. Got to think he has the wrong personality to adequately deal with this situation. (and looks like that’s been true since last season).

noxx98

05-27-2023, 01:21 PM

Richard

05-27-2023, 01:38 PM

Yikes. Shaq and Kobe famously hated each other and they were still able to win championships. Winning can fix everything and the tactics aren't currently there to get this team winning.

They had Phile Jackson for a coach which is the equivalent of Sir Alex Ferguson.

Bob's a dinosaur who's time has come to retire.

FootBallAZ

05-27-2023, 01:52 PM

I've lost passion since last season at the end there... I always mentioned no goals created within the run of game play.

I'm torn between going and showing my displeasure or not going at all.

Every thing we pay for has increased in price was promised would translate in the standings.

Everytime I pay I'm like thank you bill manning.

Unfortunately with argos 150th year or whatever combined with the uncertainty leafs and raptors are in this situation really is starting to haunt me as I don't think anything will change...referring to BM as the main focus.

If BB has 4 home games - that means pretty much until the summer window.

FootBallAZ

05-27-2023, 02:03 PM

Based on my source’s take on things, I have at least a small worry that Bob has convinced them this is “poisonous” Bernardeschi, and that as soon as he’s gone, we’re going to start performing better. When the reality is that even if it helped sitting him, we’re tactically shit, and the players are so tense we’re more likely to trip over a ball than get a foot on it.

Wow wow wow this is what I assumed.

BB is pulling the sheet over BMs eyes just like BM is doing to MLSE.

This actually hurts like I went from such a high in 2016 to 2020 and then 2022 national team has been awesome and fun and watching tfc players looking so much better and happier vs a TFC match becomes difficult to deal with too such extremes.

Mr. Inbetween

05-27-2023, 03:04 PM

Yikes. Shaq and Kobe famously hated each other and they were still able to win championships. Winning can fix everything and the tactics aren't currently there to get this team winning.

Forget about them. Seems TFC's Y17 Treble Champions squad may have been just as dysfunctional as our current group. Only glory/winning masks all.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 05:41 PM

4-3-3 Uber alles

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 05:43 PM

Insigne is back, MAK is back. Petretta loses his spot to Kobe Franklin.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 05:45 PM

No idea who the third CM is. Could be JMR or Kerr.

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 05:48 PM

Nice to see Kobe getting minutes, he has been a bright spot of late.

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350314997_782721796812880_5516113461452343352_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qmW3a-M6sAwAX-0s7cP&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCU9qO03cWPi3V2IR0Lj5zIlddzrVmxQWa-hN5sMAzijw&oe=647725F4

TMAN80

05-27-2023, 05:53 PM

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/blob:http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/8c785432-df2e-4b45-8f33-908151060137Well I don’t know how to add photos, but what I was trying to add was a photo of a sign reading “Bradley Out” in the security garbage bin at gate 2.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 05:56 PM

Crowd is filing in.

Expect about 22k tonight.

benito

05-27-2023, 05:57 PM

The lakeshore west trains are delayed. Might be a late crowd from the west end.

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 06:04 PM

Crowd is filing in.

Expect about 22k tonight.

I unfortunately am home with the flu, but yeah this week had no really effect on tickets being dumped. Tickets never got anywhere near as low as they did earlier in the season when tickets could be had for $10-15 on game day. I suspect 80% of the stadium have not even paid all that much attention to what is it going on, it is a night out on what is a beautiful evening for them.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:07 PM

MLS Pre-Game crew in full spin mode in support of Bob Bradley. If they think this guy is so invaluable they can have him.

Oldtimer

05-27-2023, 06:14 PM

I unfortunately am home with the flu

Rest up and get well.

Oldtimer

05-27-2023, 06:15 PM

MLS Pre-Game crew in full spin mode in support of Bob Bradley. If they think this guy is so invaluable they can have him.

They love Akinola too for some reason.

ManUtd4ever

05-27-2023, 06:15 PM

MLS Pre-Game crew in full spin mode in support of Bob Bradley. If they think this guy is so invaluable they can have him.

Yup.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:18 PM

They love Akinola too for some reason.
They can have all the Akinola they want too. Just tell us where to send him.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 06:24 PM

They love Akinola too for some reason.

Imagine how much they will love Ayo when we send him to the Fire for 50k in GAM.

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 06:30 PM

Rest up and get well.

Thank you.

Initial B

05-27-2023, 06:32 PM

Here is MLSsoccer.com's take on tonight:

Slowing down to try and look as much as you can at Toronto without giving away the fact you’re slowing down to try and look as much as you can at TorontoIt’s a mess. Maybe the single biggest mess I can remember since I started covering MLS. Yeah, there’s been drama in places like Atlanta and LA, but this is an avalanche of every mess, everywhere all at once. It is deep and it involves likely the league’s highest-compensated player ever, the player who’s not quite as highly paid but is outperforming him, one of the all-time great managers in US soccer history, and so much more that we don’t have time to get into, but you should really go check out the reporting being done on the situation.

We can say for certain the mess will manifest today in Federico Bernardeschi missing Toronto’s matchup with a suddenly hot D.C. United team. That’s a “coach's decision” that does a decent job of summing up the general vibe of things in Toronto right now. Not having your best player for a game that feels like a must-win is… did I mention everything kind of feels like a mess?

It could be a rough one in Toronto tonight (7:30 pm ET | MLS Season Pass (https://tv.apple.com/us/sporting-event/toronto-fc-vs-dc-united/umc.cse.4vx8tyzj4wpyhyppp4b2np89c)). The atmosphere will be fascinating, the body language should tell stories and it may just be the most interesting game of the day. Then, just because it’s MLS, Toronto may come out with a win.

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 06:35 PM

Deleted post.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:36 PM

Bob Bradley gets announced and booed. Puppet in commentary booth “I think that was for the team”

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 06:36 PM

Strong Bradley out chant from 114.... only

jloome

05-27-2023, 06:38 PM

Still want us to win. Can't root against my team, even if it gives him a reprieve.

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 06:47 PM

can't say I disagree but damn some of those pre-match betting odds were opportunistic lol...

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 06:48 PM

This may change but DCU is letting us play our game. No real press.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:50 PM

This may change but DCU is letting us play our game. No real press.
Yeah, it feels like they are waiting for us to self destruct but are being a little too hands off about it.

That’s a deserved goal. We’ve had 3 clear cut chances in the first 10 minutes

Amir.

05-27-2023, 06:50 PM

good start by tfc and goal...kerr doing really well

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 06:50 PM

Big header from Kerr.

jloome

05-27-2023, 06:51 PM

We're playing pretty well. Moving the ball quicker. Kerr offers more than Fede defensively, I hate to say it.

It's still all just overlaps and triangles but we're outworking them, so it's working. DC's big weak spot is its central defense.

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 06:51 PM

Great on Kerr, the team needed this big time.

PizzaEatingYeti

05-27-2023, 06:51 PM

Best 15 minutes of the season for TFC?

Like I said, bookies are almost always right.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 06:52 PM

We are a really tall team right now.

jloome

05-27-2023, 06:52 PM

Franklin with the lung buster. What a young player he is.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:53 PM

We're playing pretty well. Moving the ball quicker. Kerr offers more than Fede defensively, I hate to say it.
I just think with how we are trying to play, a pacey FW on the right side makes more sense. And when teams try to pin Laryea back… Kerr just needs to make that quick run like he has on several sequences now.

Edit not that Kerr > Bernie by any means, not suggesting that.

Amir.

05-27-2023, 06:54 PM

mabika please dont do that...smash those balls away

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 06:54 PM

Lower body injury FC.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 06:55 PM

Jesus, that’s not good. What are they doing in rehab? Beating guys with cinder blocks?

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 06:55 PM

dam injuries !!

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 06:55 PM

We gotta respond. They are starting to adjust and attack.

rydermike

05-27-2023, 06:56 PM

Our training staff needs to be replaced. The sheer number of injuries is ridiculous.

Red CB Toronto

05-27-2023, 06:58 PM

Good on Berna for not hiding out at home tonight.

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/350256800_1238343403535250_4282920180041510633_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=25OoIbI039kAX86rMez&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=03_AdQGwM8sfzBxWcwR8OT-xwOrlTKKCUdjtl64rpYJOPOgzw&oe=6499F322

rydermike

05-27-2023, 07:01 PM

Laryea now down. 2 injuries in 25 minutes.

Amir.

05-27-2023, 07:01 PM

kaye keeps a ball in his own box instead of clearing it and loses it...

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:05 PM

I mean. I appreciate it’s a deflection but it’s directly off his hand… sort of hard to ignore

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:06 PM

Love how hard Lorenzo is hitting his corners. He has looked really good tonight.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:11 PM

Best we have played in weeks.

jloome

05-27-2023, 07:15 PM

Best we have played in weeks.

THis is the most fascinating twist in this so far.

What's bringing this about? We're suddenly getting five, six bodies in the box. We're running hard. No one looks tentative.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 07:16 PM

Against a non pressing team but.. the ball movement is quicker. And nobody is playing hero ball.

ronzilla

05-27-2023, 07:16 PM

DC United look awful. They bring nothing.

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 07:17 PM

imagine that eh, lol we get overloads into the box and a few different runs into the spaces in the 18 yard box as the winger or FB hit the byline... and chances start coming alive.

who woulda thunk lol.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:17 PM

Against a non pressing team but.. the ball movement is quicker. And nobody is playing hero ball.
Yeah, everyone’s actually passing and trusting their teammates. I think having a younger / faster lineup is helping.

I am a bit puzzled by DC though. They look listless

Richard

05-27-2023, 07:19 PM

THis is the most fascinating twist in this so far.

What's bringing this about? We're suddenly getting five, six bodies in the box. We're running hard. No one looks tentative.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

Imagine if TFC had an "All or Nothing" series this season. Pop corn time.

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 07:21 PM

Yeah, everyone’s actually passing and trusting their teammates. I think having a younger / faster lineup is helping.

I am a bit puzzled by DC though. They look listless

Garber asked Wayne if he shouldn't let the lads maybe have a bit of a night off, go for a 90 minute soft jog around the park and aim for a good hard road draw {/joke} lol

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:21 PM

Benteke is the prototypical MLS number 9. Can not touch the ball for 10+ minutes and eventually just outmuscle a defender for a big chance. Great save by SJ.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:22 PM

Like I appreciate they are struggling but that’s a pretty impractical and ego driven move by Wayne to not wait until half.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:22 PM

So, Rooney makes three changes just before half. Odd strategy, but I admire the balls.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:24 PM

Sean Johnson is the best goalie we have ever had.

OgtheDim

05-27-2023, 07:25 PM

MAK & Sapong playing well.

benito

05-27-2023, 07:25 PM

Great save on the free kick.

Odd subs by DC. Trying to send a message I suppose.

Richard

05-27-2023, 07:26 PM

Sean Johnson is the best goalie we have ever had.

Not a high bar to overcome, but yes he is a premium keeper in this league.

jloome

05-27-2023, 07:26 PM

So, Rooney makes three changes just before half. Odd strategy, but I admire the balls.

I think he saw we'd dropped Thompson to cover at left back when Richie is high, and he's late to track back, so they had two chances to get the ball into the box at the end as a result. That's Fountas' bread and butter, so he wanted him in to take advantage of it.

Pretty tactically astute. Expect them to attack right back in the second half, big time.

Amir.

05-27-2023, 07:27 PM

great first half by toronto...now the second which has been a challenge all season...dc subs in three big guns right before the break

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:27 PM

Very good half by Kerr. I wish him and Thomson would read the game a bit faster though. Thomson in particular seems to have zero anticipation of the next phase of play. He gets the ball and it’s always 3-4 touches before he figures out what he wants to do.

Really good half of football but let’s see how we hold up with a few more first choice DCU players in the fold.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:32 PM

I think he saw we'd dropped Thompson to cover at left back when Richie is high, and he's late to track back, so they had two chances to get the ball into the box at the end as a result. That's Fountas' bread and butter, so he wanted him in to take advantage of it.

Pretty tactically astute. Expect them to attack right back in the second half, big time.

Pedro Santos is one of the most underrated players in MLS history. How many times did he burn us with Columbus? I do wonder if we were in on him before making Petretta the highest paid 2nd string LB in the league.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:36 PM

Pedro Santos is one of the most underrated players in MLS history. How many times did he burn us with Columbus? I do wonder if we were in on him before making Petretta the highest paid 2nd string LB in the league.
On Petretta, it would appear to me Bob’s dropped him for this game after the sequence that caused the goal last week. That said, Franklin has borderline played his way into a starting role and is improving every week.

jloome

05-27-2023, 07:40 PM

ronzilla

05-27-2023, 07:41 PM

Franklin has to be the most improved player this year.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:44 PM

We are playing a perfect road game at home.

jloome

05-27-2023, 07:44 PM

Geez Kerr is fast. Holy.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:46 PM

Mabika stuffed Taxi man.

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 07:47 PM

Mabika stuffed Taxi man.
I’m borderline thinking he should start over Rosted. Makes mistakes for sure but no more than his competition. And he has a lot more strong individual plays.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:48 PM

Gonna be a white knuckle 40 minutes, isn't it?

Amir.

05-27-2023, 07:51 PM

great job kerr

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:51 PM

I’m borderline thinking he should start over Rosted. Makes mistakes for sure but no more than his competition. And he has a lot more strong individual plays.

His technical ability is not great, but there is an MLS version of Per Mertesacker in there.

Amir.

05-27-2023, 07:52 PM

please sub out kaye before he gives a goal or gets a red

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 07:54 PM

Tyler Miller plays like he is a bored GK in pro clubs.

jloome

05-27-2023, 08:04 PM

Kerr has played great. Really taking the chance. He's making Santos' life hell with the speed.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:06 PM

Kosi! What a counter attack!

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 08:06 PM

that's what i'm talking about. fast and verticle, get those bloody overloads into the box and make shit happen. Beautiful.

jloome

05-27-2023, 08:07 PM

Man, where has this been all year?

Amir.

05-27-2023, 08:07 PM

boom what a counter then laryea to insigne to thompson great finish...now please defend properly last 15...remember last time vs dc

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 08:07 PM

Wow, what a sequence. LI probably player-of-the-game but huge step up by Kerr. He’s been eating DCU alive

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:08 PM

Kerr is the MOTM.

tfcfans

05-27-2023, 08:11 PM

TFC scores again - this is just hilarious....I just can’t with this team - I bet against them, and I want to quit them, and then here we go again with a game that makes me care for another few days until Wednesday…..you’d think after living through 2007-2013 I’d learn….:rolleyes::rolleyes:

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 08:15 PM

Lorenzo is on fire tonight. Fuck man, great response to all the noise and BS going on.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:15 PM

#MabikaGreatness

Amir.

05-27-2023, 08:16 PM

legs are heavy get petretta in there

jloome

05-27-2023, 08:22 PM

This coming back? Hedges was tripped.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:22 PM

Imagine if we had a Christian Benteke. We'd be unstoppable.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:24 PM

I'm so scared right now.

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:25 PM

Has Ayo touched the ball since he came on?

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 08:30 PM

Amir.

05-27-2023, 08:31 PM

Lets gooo

MikeForbes

05-27-2023, 08:32 PM

That's a big win. Not sure we were great tonight, but we scraped and clawed for that. The next two games are massive.

jloome

05-27-2023, 08:33 PM

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 08:33 PM

So I have a confession to make, I couldn’t handle the AppleTV commentary team so I voluntarily listened to Gareth Wheeler.

And now that we have won I will listen to Gareth Wheeler and only Gareth Wheeler until we lose.

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 08:34 PM

Insigne is having one of these 'fuck everyone who doesn't think im worth 14M nights, nobody can hold a candle to me out here and i'm about to out fight and undress everyone' kinda nights lol. I don't mind it if it lights a fire under his ass lol

That 2nd goal was all him. Starts the play in out half with a great outlet pass, sprints up field to get the return then lays it on a plate for Thompson.

ManUtd4ever

05-27-2023, 08:36 PM

Will any of us be the least upset if this turns out to be a cathartic week that keeps them all employed and we start winning games?

I hope not. We need them to do this again a few times before I get all gushy, but that felt pretty good.

The boys finally showed some heart tonight. Especially Insigne.

Let's see if they can maintain that intensity moving forward.

Bobo

05-27-2023, 08:36 PM

Amir.

05-27-2023, 08:37 PM

Great job to Bob Bradley for the proper management of the Bernardeschi situation and the coaching tonight along with the great performance by the players to get the win tonight...no player is above the team

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 08:38 PM

I really really hope this is where the season turns around. I thought the same after the NYCFC game.. but maybe this time..

ag futbol

05-27-2023, 08:39 PM

I'm of the belief so far this is probably a mix of all things coming to the fore, coupled with a reaction. Someone has coached them to attack the box this week; it's not a coincidence. We're having five, six guys attack regularly. We're seeing quick, first-time decisions.

And never in 16 years have I seen Bob Bradley absolutely reaming out players who are losing their focus, and he did several times in that one.

It's like ice-cold water in the face, a week like that.

Take the positives when we can get them. D.C. mostly sucked, but this certainly didn't look like mutiny. The effort was impressive. Insigne showed great commitment getting up and down the flank.

Kerr's looking like solid cheap depth at the very least and Franklin could be that cheap fullback that can enable a team to spend elsewhere. Hopefully TFC can take a mulligan on Petretta somehow.

This was a good reality check for Berna too. Dare I say he might have to wait a bit longer to get back into the starting XI? Either way, it'll be interesting to see how he responds.
Yeah, I’m not trying to pile on but Kerr deserves more opportunities at his preferred spot.

SenorDingDong

05-27-2023, 08:41 PM

Yeah, I’m not trying to pile on but Kerr deserves more opportunities at his preferred spot.

Hopefully this gets Berna to basically shut up and just play his ass off like the beginning of the season.

We don't need drama. I'm not convinced by Bob but it was nice to see better direct tactics tonight, people in the box and getting the ball in there.

jloome

05-27-2023, 08:43 PM

Take the positives when we can get them. D.C. mostly sucked, but this certainly didn't look like mutiny. The effort was impressive. Insigne showed great commitment getting up and down the flank.

Kerr's looking like solid cheap depth at the very least and Franklin could be that cheap fullback that can enable a team to spend elsewhere. Hopefully TFC can take a mulligan on Petretta somehow.

This was a good reality check for Berna too. Dare I say he might have to wait a bit longer to get back into the starting XI? Either way, it'll be interesting to see how he responds.
I mean, it's interesting, because Kerr's speed and defensive pressures were major, major factors tonight. That and they finally just used some basics in attack, attacking both posts, having a trailer.

Must have been a hell of a week on the practice pitch.

He scored a lot of goals as a striker Fiorentina. I wouldn't be averse to having him up top, when we're able to keep the ball mostly on the ground like tonight. He's also a decent hole player. He doesn't have to be on the right.

Or maybe the petulance is a bigger issue than just being the "whistblower" this week.

I do wonder, however, based on Bradley's comments about them now seeing eye to eye, if they didn't reach some kind of detente. It may be "we'll work on the attack and numbers if you keep shit in house and behave" or just "we'll move you if you want, but we need to work this shit out as a team."

I'm not sure it matters how he did it, he got them to pull together and fight this week. And he was vocal, screaming, motivating, all through the game. I wonder if they made it clear to him they needed it or if he just decided they need more direction during the game. But when one of them lost their focus tonight, others were stepping in and calling them out.

It was just more accountable across the board, coach and players.

FiveThreeTwo

05-27-2023, 08:45 PM

I will say though, that was quite the gamble BB/staff went with and clearly there's still fight and will within the team/kids to support him, fair play to him. Bold play to park a player and send a message that he thinks the team can compete and win without one of the biggest names [and they did]

But yeah just my thoughts are similar to others - I'll need to see this mentality game in and game out. Don't need to be world beaters every week, but attacking in waves and those overloads and above all else - I need to see that they can adjust week in and out if they keep this up and teams start playing safer and in lower blocks against us. We should have buried that win... DC played quite open and gave us time to get forward fast from what I saw. But the real test will be when teams compress and whether we adapt to that. The wins nice - but doesn't mean i'm on the #benchberna wagon, nor the #bobssaved wagon lol.

Small other observation... JMR was a nice pacey touch in the midfield. At times was able to drive forward in a traditionally slow midfield for us, and added another way to get the ball forward we haven't seen too much from the mids.