Match Day 14 - TFC @ Austin - Sat May 20 8:39pm - I Have Nothing But Pride

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulGhfiI9yiY&ab_channel=JackKaysVEVO

(I know some of you feel the way this song feels about TFC right now & that should be acknowledged)

***********

Have At It People

[Mr. Inbetween]

When an epilogue is eventually considered for TFC’s season, it likely may be titled for this stretch… Crisis of the Feriti (injured/wounded)!

[SoccMan2]

I’m thinking this is Bob’s last game because I’m seeing a 5-0 drubbing hopefully I’m wrong but let’s be realistic here this team is just useless right now . Moreover, hopefully it’s Manning’s last game too.

[los sonadores]

I suppose one good thing about having half your team injured is that it keeps the legs fresh, haha. Two or three leave injured every match and are replaced by guys who barely have played at all, or not lately.

It’s a road trip - usually that means a loss in MLS. But I hope we put up a good fight and look engaged on all fronts.

Austin is also below the playoff line, are about the same points per game average as us, are as bad as us at scoring (20th and 21st and both @ 1 goal per game) and are several places worse than us at conceding (6th worse to our 12th). 5th highest payroll in the league. Driussi should be out for them but not much more than that.

A 1-1 draw is in line with both teams points per game average and goals scored per game average.

[jloome]

Well, I thought that was a really good effort with more than half the team missing, so I'm going to err on the side of optimism here.

I thought Richie's comments after the last game were probably needed.

“Teams go through stretches like this. We have a good team. We're missing a lot of people. We have young guys playing that haven't had a ton of experience. Everyone's growing right now,” he continued. “It's better to go through stretches like this now versus summer or later in the season.”

“So I understand, but I feel, honestly, proud of the guys. Guys are still trucking along, going, fighting, we come to training every day, we put in the work,” Laryea explained. “[There are] things you guys don't see. You guys just see the results after the games and it might look bad to you, but within the group everyone's working really hard, which is a very positive thing for me.”

“Keeps me going, keeps guys going. It's going to click soon,” he anticipated. “Hopefully this weekend we can go and get a big three points and then start getting a few of the guys back and start going from there.”

Toronto will hit the road this weekend, Texas-bound for a clash with Austin FC. A week later another flurry of matches sees the visits of D.C. United and the Chicago Fire before moving into June with an away date at Minnesota United.

What’s visible above the water line, from the outside, on the match days and in the results is only a small part of the bigger picture. The club feels they are getting closer to where they want to be.

“The conversations that are being had, the meetings that we have, the club wants to win, that's the ambition of the club,” said Laryea, peeling back the curtain a touch. “Everyday we're reminded of that and guys on the team remind guys of that. I'm constantly reminding people of that, it's a big [point of emphasis] of a lot of the veteran guys. It's good that we have many different voices saying the exact same thing and everyone wants to win.”

“Sometimes you hear people say that and they don't really mean it. This group means it,” he closed. “You see it when we come to train, the mood in the group. Yeah, could obviously be a better season, but it’s football. You see people hang their head, probably see me hang my head a few times in games as well, but we keep trucking along. You don't really get to see within our walls, our discussions, arguments amongst ourselves. It shows that everyone cares.”

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1659557799532134400?s=20

[Canary10]

What's MAK's injury? I missed that.

[Kamp Berg]

What's MAK's injury? I missed that.

He felt something in his hip before the last game.

[los sonadores]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1659557799532134400?s=20

I guess if we’re to make this sort of speculation… Hedges is the most obviously needed “questionable”. Allows Richie to get back to RB. It would also be very helpful, most probably, to have MAK back in the midfield (though Kosi did very well last match). i’m hoping for those two but if it’s only MAK i suppose he goes to centre half alongside Mabike and Richie would also be back to playing wide.

And please wake up you strikers! Maybe, unlike NYRB, some hold up play is needed against Austin which would favour Sapong. And it would be more than nice to see something out of Diomande. He looked like he still had the legs and an eye for goal in preseason…..

[Ultra & Proud]

Well, I thought that was a really good effort with more than half the team missing, so I'm going to err on the side of optimism here.

I thought Richie's comments after the last game were probably needed.

“Teams go through stretches like this. We have a good team. We're missing a lot of people. We have young guys playing that haven't had a ton of experience. Everyone's growing right now,” he continued. “It's better to go through stretches like this now versus summer or later in the season.”

“So I understand, but I feel, honestly, proud of the guys. Guys are still trucking along, going, fighting, we come to training every day, we put in the work,” Laryea explained. “[There are] things you guys don't see. You guys just see the results after the games and it might look bad to you, but within the group everyone's working really hard, which is a very positive thing for me.”

“Keeps me going, keeps guys going. It's going to click soon,” he anticipated. “Hopefully this weekend we can go and get a big three points and then start getting a few of the guys back and start going from there.”

Toronto will hit the road this weekend, Texas-bound for a clash with Austin FC. A week later another flurry of matches sees the visits of D.C. United and the Chicago Fire before moving into June with an away date at Minnesota United.

What’s visible above the water line, from the outside, on the match days and in the results is only a small part of the bigger picture. The club feels they are getting closer to where they want to be.

“The conversations that are being had, the meetings that we have, the club wants to win, that's the ambition of the club,” said Laryea, peeling back the curtain a touch. “Everyday we're reminded of that and guys on the team remind guys of that. I'm constantly reminding people of that, it's a big [point of emphasis] of a lot of the veteran guys. It's good that we have many different voices saying the exact same thing and everyone wants to win.”

“Sometimes you hear people say that and they don't really mean it. This group means it,” he closed. “You see it when we come to train, the mood in the group. Yeah, could obviously be a better season, but it’s football. You see people hang their head, probably see me hang my head a few times in games as well, but we keep trucking along. You don't really get to see within our walls, our discussions, arguments amongst ourselves. It shows that everyone cares.”

If he stays on maybe he should be the next captain. I know he is hot headed on the pitch but I never saw anybody give a speech like this since old days Bradley and we needed that. Neither of the Italians are doing it and Osorio talks but is pretty boring and doesn't really have the personality for it. Since our whole team is fairly boring and dull in all aspects, maybe adding some fire in the form of Richie will shake some of the cobwebs off the rest of our floaters.

[ag futbol]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1659557799532134400?s=20
More Antonoglou in midfield please. I liked what I saw last game. He was able to get his teammates to trust him with the fall fairly quickly which is a good sign (defensively untested, I admit).

Would want to know if he can do it against better opposition. My hot take from a small sample size is he looks more capable than pretty much all our youth prospects at the moment with the exception of Kerr (not including Coello in that list as he’s a bit older / experienced).

But please, please don’t turn this kid into a fullback. He looks way better in midfield.

[SenorDingDong]

I guess if we’re to make this sort of speculation… Hedges is the most obviously needed “questionable”. Allows Richie to get back to RB. It would also be very helpful, most probably, to have MAK back in the midfield (though Kosi did very well last match). i’m hoping for those two but if it’s only MAK i suppose he goes to centre half alongside Mabike and Richie would also be back to playing wide.

And please wake up you strikers! Maybe, unlike NYRB, some hold up play is needed against Austin which would favour Sapong. And it would be more than nice to see something out of Diomande. He looked like he still had the legs and an eye for goal in preseason…..

No Richie at RB!!!

Franklin is capable.

Richie goes to right mid and Berna moves center with Sapong. We need goals.... defensively we are honestly ok this year, but we can't score.

[los sonadores]

No Richie at RB!!!

Franklin is capable.

Richie goes to right mid and Berna moves center with Sapong. We need goals.... defensively we are honestly ok this year, but we can't score.

Hah, well, RB is preferable to CB for Richie. Otherwise I agree, but we haven’t seen any of that from Bob. Even Vanney was reluctant to play Richie there but he always rocked at right mid (his natural position it might be said).

[los sonadores]

MLS,com preview:

Austin FC won their first match in over two months with Wednesday's road upset over the Sounders. Arguably more encouraging for the Verde & Black, though, is the consistent production they're now getting from Designated Player Emiliano Rigoni (three goal contributions in his last four matches). A home match against a brutally-injured Toronto FC side gives ATX a major chance to gain momentum.

[Mr. Inbetween]

:idea:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwgGunbWwAAeSKJ?format=jpg&name=small

[Kamp Berg]

:idea:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwgGunbWwAAeSKJ?format=jpg&name=small

I think that’s too much change, it’s important to have some consistency. I would move Insigne back to LW, and add Richie to the midfield. As someone noted, midfield is where Richie played before Vanney move him to RB. Even better would be a 4-4-2, with Insigne as the LM, Richie as the RM, and Berna as the second striker.

[Prof]

:idea:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwgGunbWwAAeSKJ?format=jpg&name=small
Would much rather see Antonoglou in Insigne spot. Insigne and Bernadeschi need to ride the bench. Not team players at all.

[nick.mastro]

4-4-2

--Insigne--Sapong--
Lareya-Kaye-Servania-Berna

Insigne needs to stop being so wide on the wing. Was just watching Giovinco highlights, most of his goals were because he was always played in the middle. This is where insigne has to be, and forget about his defensive responsibilities. Such a waste of goal finishing talent when used so wide on the pitch.

[los sonadores]

4-4-2

--Insigne--Sapong--
Lareya-Kaye-Servania-Berna

Insigne needs to stop being so wide on the wing. Was just watching Giovinco highlights, most of his goals were because he was always played in the middle. This is where insigne has to be, and forget about his defensive responsibilities. Such a waste of goal finishing talent when used so wide on the pitch.

Giovinco was much more at home living in the middle than Insigne is. And Insigne has a terrible shooting percentage, he’s not clinical at all. If one of the two DPs are played up front it should be Bernie in behind Sapong.

Edit: and then, yes, Richie wide in the midfield with Franklin as RB. Insigne can continue doing his thing wide and cutting in.

And too, in time I think we all hope for real interplay between every player on the field. We have plenty of talent and experience (although maybe not any time soon due to injury). Insigne doing his thing alone is not going to be enough. Unlike most folks posting here I’m giving it all more time (and I’m writing off last season), but in the end it’s not acceptable to not fully use the talents of players like our two DPs. That was one of the great pleasures of Giovinco and Jozy. It was maybe the first and probably last time they were deployed in a way that got the most out of them as footballers. (For sure, part of that was what they did for each other.)

[Mr. Inbetween]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/lrz2hom6wKGr59E3WH/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95252lwo8znz9dfhth4gcaytydeiyz5 cj6rv8v6f19j&ep=v1_stickers_related&rid=giphy.gif&ct=ts

https://youtu.be/nO23B5C_Mcw

[OgtheDim]

Later start time...chance to watch some earlier games for a bit.

[Kamp Berg]

I really hope we see Richie used higher up the pitch today. If he does as good of a job as he did as CB, then I think a real case could be made for him as the third DP. Petretta and Franklin seem good enough in the fullback roles and hopefully it would lead to a reshuffle resulting in two more under-22 signings. It would alleviate some midfield woes and allow for more depth signings. Fingers crossed 🤞🏻

[Richard]

I really hope we see Richie used higher up the pitch today. If he does as good of a job as he did as CB, then I think a real case could be made for him as the third DP. Petretta and Franklin seem good enough in the fullback roles and hopefully it would lead to a reshuffle resulting in two more under-22 signings. It would alleviate some midfield woes and allow for more depth signings. Fingers crossed 爛

As much as I like Richie it doesn't make sense to have him as a DP as we desperately need a premium striker. Overall the budget has been tremendously mismanaged,

[Kamp Berg]

As much as I like Richie it doesn't make sense to have him as a DP as we desperately need a premium striker. Overall the budget has been tremendously mismanaged,

I understand, but in the current setup, even a great striker would probably be starved of service. Richie in the mid could possibly alleviate that issue. I agree with the mismanagement, doesn’t leave many good choices. Would probably only work if a truly promising young striker could be acquired using a U-22 spot.

[SenorDingDong]

I really hope we see Richie used higher up the pitch today. If he does as good of a job as he did as CB, then I think a real case could be made for him as the third DP. Petretta and Franklin seem good enough in the fullback roles and hopefully it would lead to a reshuffle resulting in two more under-22 signings. It would alleviate some midfield woes and allow for more depth signings. Fingers crossed 爛

Same here. Richie on the right wing Berna moved more center. All I want to see. Guess it depends on if Hedges is available or MAK.

We don't even need a DP striker. Move Berna to CF, put Richie on the right and get a new DP CAM to play in the middle between Insigne and Richie. Osorio could also do this but he's frequently injured now.

DP striker would do nothing right now. Honestly if we can clear Akinola and Diomande get one quality striker for TAM money.

[Red CB Toronto]

Some of the doubtuls must be out, Toronto FC announced today that the club has signed Markus Cimermancic, Antony Curic and Jordan Faria to short-term loan agreements from Toronto FC II, the club’s MLS NEXT Pro side.

[OgtheDim]

Two mids & a defender

Kaye & Hedges not making it, likely.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Do we even know if any of Kaye, Hedges or Perruzza even made the flight to Austin.

[Super]

Same here. Richie on the right wing Berna moved more center. All I want to see. Guess it depends on if Hedges is available or MAK.

We don't even need a DP striker. Move Berna to CF, put Richie on the right and get a new DP CAM to play in the middle between Insigne and Richie. Osorio could also do this but he's frequently injured now.

DP striker would do nothing right now. Honestly if we can clear Akinola and Diomande get one quality striker for TAM money.

I respectfully disagree. A DP striker would have won us games at this point in the season. The amount of chances blown by our so-called strikers makes you want to cry. If TFC blows more money on players that do not score goals then we deserve to finish last.

[ensco]

Think we might get thumped here. I just have a bad feeling about this one.

[Red CB Toronto]

Do we even know if any of Kaye, Hedges or Perruzza even made the flight to Austin.

I know Peruzza andd Hedges did based on TFC instgram. Guess once they got down to Austin it was determined they could not go, likely sometime this morning after a check in with the medical staff.

It is interesting with 9 players out on Wednesday, the Reds had only one short term signing while the Red Bulls had three with 12 guys out. Today with at least 8, up to a possible 11 out, the Reds have signed three to short term deals, figure this is not a good sign for the questionable. Guess we shall see when the line up is released?

[jloome]

OUT: Sebastian Driussi (left adductor)




OUT: Owen Wolff (international duty)

[Ultra & Proud]

I respectfully disagree. A DP striker would have won us games at this point in the season. The amount of chances blown by our so-called strikers makes you want to cry.

I don't think so. We average a handful of chances per match at best so CF doesn't get many real chances to blow. Barely any link up up top and usually we move so slow there's 11 players defending in the box by the time we try.

We would need a different type of CF that could create on his own and has pace and guile rather than one that relied on service because we don't do that here.

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1660068148240949249

[Slick]

Insigne not in the line up. Defoe 2.0.

[noxx98]

https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1660068877127102464
another lower body injury supposedly... *sigh*

[Amir.]

looks like laryea in the midfield which would be a good decision

[OgtheDim]

Well people did want a 4-4-2....

[portu]

Defoe was better than Insigne change my mind

[Areathrasher]

I'd love to see TFC score a goal tonight

[reggie]

i would love to see tfc not lose 3 nil tonight

[CorrwgBach]

I would like to see someone run

[noxx98]

Ya'll might be asking a bit too much out of the team tonight...

[Richard]

Defoe was better than Insigne change my mind

Well statistically you're not wrong.

[Kamp Berg]

Love seeing Richie higher up, with the armband. Insigne out again is really troubling, not sure he’ll last his full contract here. Hedges back is monumental, could be a surprising match.

[ronzilla]

Get ready for another long night of TFC getting thumped.

[Graeme]

With Hedges in, we have a chance.

[Kamp Berg]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1660068148240949249

Anyone know who Faria is?

[JoesphNdo]

I got almost cautiously optimistic when I saw Driussi out but no insigine? Brutal. Escaping with a point would be huge. I'd take just surviving with no fitness worries for the returning Hedges or MAK at this point

[Bushmancan]

Defoe was better than Insigne change my mind

https://www.footballfancast.com/west-ham-united-news/three-moments-in-west-ham-history-that-riled-the-fanbase/

Until Insigne says he quits, he will always be better than Defoe… (beats Ince and Lampard as WestHam Judas)

[Mr. Inbetween]

Defoe was better than Insigne change my mind

Uhhh, yeah? Insigne is a winger, Defoe was a striker. There is a fundamental difference.

[Amir.]

faria used to be with tfc ii then to york in cpl then finland d3 then back to tfc ii

[OgtheDim]

Defoe's mom

***********

Ok, this could be really bad or a dogged draw.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Richie with Armband. Let’s see if Themi is the game changer some think he will be.

[OgtheDim]

Urrutti - good thing nobody on the team is left from that move.

[Mr. Inbetween]

With Hedges in, we have a chance.

Agree.

[Gringo Starr]

Hedges and Mabika might make for a good cb pairing

[rydermike]

Anyone know who Faria is?
He's one of the 3 TFC2 guys called up. Used to play for TFC2 then went to CanPL and Finland. Came back this year.

Edit: oops didn't see Amirs post saying the exact same thing

[Mr. Inbetween]

Did MLS commentator just state BBradley is ‘safe’ with a ‘4 year guaranteed’? Another bad contract?

[Amir.]

sapong
bernardeschi kaye servania laryea
antonoglou petretta hedges mabika franklin
johnson

[OgtheDim]

Apple with the news that it is a foot injury to Insigne...

[SenorDingDong]

sapong
bernardeschi kaye servania laryea
antonoglou petretta hedges mabika franklin
johnson

Is this the actual formation?

Parking the bus

[Amir.]

^ as usual depends how you see it...back three or back five...

[Ultra & Proud]

I got almost cautiously optimistic when I saw Driussi out but no insigine? Brutal. Escaping with a point would be huge.

You make it sound like Insigne is important to the squad and does anything. Him out is probably a bonus at this point. Played better before he came back. See if that continues.

[James17930]

I just can't believe we've fallen to last in the East.

Absolutely brutal.

[OgtheDim]

Kobe in not a bad defender...


Their press is good - not being gotten through much.

[JoesphNdo]

You make it sound like Insigne is important to the squad and does anything. Him out is probably a bonus at this point. Played better before he came back. See if that continues.

He hasn't been great or even good at all I agree, but tbh he's been the better of the DPs since he's been back

[Mr. Inbetween]

You make it sound like Insigne is important to the squad and does anything. Him out is probably a bonus at this point. Played better before he came back. See if that continues.

On a goals and assists basis? Even I will not argue against such an assertion.

[Amir.]

at least two balls lost by kaye in his half in the first 22 min...second one leads to a chance

[jloome]

We need to push our backline up and challenge them with the offside trap; they're just way too deep to transition the ball most of the time.

[Auzzy]

I only have one extremely important comment to make so far: the Austin manager has a very long chin.

[Slick]

We're just brutal upfront. Completely lost. Zero threat.

[Bushmancan]

W (https://www.footballfancast.com/west-ham-united-news/three-moments-in-west-ham-history-that-riled-the-fanbase/)hen was the last time we caught a break and the opposition got a red card?

[QBall]

Halfway through the first half and it feels like we're playing for the tie :facepalm:

[Mr. Inbetween]

Apple with the news that it is a foot injury to Insigne...

Have you seen Lollo’s feet? Caution, best not to be eating or drinking…

https://www.tuttonapoli.net/multimedia/video-balotelli-sfotte-insigne-e-riprende-il-suo-piede-fatato-lorenziello-la-qualita-fa-male-367986

[JoesphNdo]

Halfway through the first half and it feels like we're playing for the tie :facepalm:

We'd be foolish not too.

[OgtheDim]

Servania & MAK trying to go back to find space just keep running into their press.

[OgtheDim]

We'd be foolish not too.

Away games out of a conference - any point is a bonus.

[DinamoTFC]

Uninspiring football so far. No cohesion. No improvement. Players look like they have no drive. High percentage of incomplete passes.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh...Atonoglu...not quite ready for the speed.

[Bushmancan]

A lot of heavy touches by Bernie tonight. I realize he has no support ….still need more.

[Bushmancan]

Great to get out of that half…

[Joe Kool]

Toothless…

[noxx98]

That was was certainly a half of football. Our scoreless streak looks likely to continue. Let's just hope for the 0-0 draw at this rate.

[OgtheDim]

A lot of heavy touches by Bernie tonight. I realize he has no support ….still need more.

Yeh, he's trying to do too much with his first touch.

As has been the problem for most of the season, they are trying to be too elaborate.

Hedges though - man the guy just has a zone around him that nobody is going to beat.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Can BB even, and will he, adjust?

[jloome]

Well that was total shit.

Kaye.... man I'm always defending the guy, but that was some woeful shit. He's supposedly directing traffic and all he can keep doing is pointing back at the defense. The wingbacks have started ignoring him. He also coughed it three times by my count.

Servania, awful. Bad pass, bad pass, no movement after the pass so he's not in the right spot.

Sapong, awful. Can't hold a ball up if you can't get to it.

Defensively, we've usually got eight men in our half, and we wonder why we can't transition.

It's just terrible. Most of the rest were okay individually but with three playing so badly, we're basically hosed. He has to push the back line up.

[ronzilla]

Start the car.

[OgtheDim]

Can BB even, and will he, adjust?

The 3-4-3 that is really a 4-3-3 isn't really working - they did switch Richie & Fede about 35 in & dropped Servania back a bit. But MAK is getting overrun.

[FiveThreeTwo]

having a hard time understanding why we can dink around with the ball and move it in the middle of the park, but we absolutely just seem to get a form of writers block in the final 3rd. Apart from richie, how in all that space up front can their be minimal runs made. I mean we saw servania literally do in the 90th the other game in a near post run that helped us save a point... can we not just have that... all the time? lol

[DinamoTFC]

Can BB even, and will he, adjust?
I can safely say I understand all the complaints Swansea had about him. At first I thought they cut him loose too early but now I know why.

[Oldtimer]

Really missing Osorio this match.

[JoesphNdo]

Honestly this is pretty much what you'd expect, though yes our mid field is especially off. But for me, only real thing I'm reading into here is the continued issues with our DPs (in this case, DP). Otherwise yeah never expected much with the pieces we had

Shaff just winning a last second penalty is more upsetting than the game so far

If Austin continue not knowing how to make the right decision on the final pass we might absolutely steal a point here

[jloome]

We spend so much fucking time carrying the ball instead of letting it do the work. Simple, quick, smart movement. How many times did either Kaye or Mabika or Bernardeschi get stripped in that half?

The support movement is shit, too, nothing quick and obvious, just more attempts to roll it down the wings.

It's just fucking dreadful. No switch of field, no catching the other team high and firing it out to the wing, no attempts to beat the back line. Do any of our players know how to hit a cross-field switch or a long through ball?

[FiveThreeTwo]

Honestly this is pretty much what you'd expect, though yes our mid field is especially off. But for me, only real thing I'm reading into here is the continued issues with our DPs (in this case, DP). Otherwise yeah never expected much with the pieces we had

Shaff just winning a last second penalty is more upsetting than the game so far

How frustrating is it looking at our squad and what we're lacking... and realizing we traded away the very type of pacy line breaking forward that can progress the ball for all of our slow guys... for a bag of pucks... lol a humble youth product at that

[QBall]

Half time: Zero shots on goal, zero shots. Does Bob Bradley have to refund his pay if it stays like this?

[ensco]

Not watching the second half.

Good luck guys, hope it gets better.

[DinamoTFC]

How frustrating is it looking at our squad and what we're lacking... and realizing we traded away the very type of pacy line breaking forward that can progress the ball for all of our slow guys... for a bag of pucks... lol a humble youth product at that

Mind boggling incompetency

[OgtheDim]

Servania off is a good move.

[Amir.]

antonoglou and servania out for mbongue and thompson

[OgtheDim]

Can BB even, and will he, adjust?

Well he did.....Sapong on the left.

[Amir.]

good ball by kaye, franklin breakaway and he has to do way better...heavy touch

[Amir.]

\
Well he did.....Sapong on the left.

+laryea back to wing back which is a good decision as he was just not involved enough in the first

[JoesphNdo]

Austin without Driussi are...not good. They have no idea what to do with the ball. I really think the point is there for us with a bit of luck, and we may even sneak a chance.

[Bushmancan]

Can we complete just one through ball.. our passing in the final third is just atrocious.

[OgtheDim]

That's an incredible stat about only ever winning once in Texas.

[OgtheDim]

Their subs are going to make it difficult for us.

[Amir.]

dp rigoni coming in as well as former mls dp zardes

[Mr. Inbetween]

Hedges with a possible handball; lucky. Kobe ignoring Fede; ballsy. Wolff now adjusting to BBradley; decisive, regardless if correct.

[rydermike]

Jordan Faria debut

[FiveThreeTwo]

#playin'thekids

[portu]

Wow Fede off. Wow.

[Amir.]

bernardeschi out for faria who played finnish d3 last year

[JoesphNdo]

I don't love that. Maybe it's an injury/tiredness maybe it's sending a message but... bad as he's been, if anyone would steal a goal from nothing here it's Bernie

Feels like there's a story there.

[jloome]

Jordan Faria debut


I don't love that. Maybe it's an injury/tiredness maybe it's sending a message but... bad as he's been, if anyone would steal a goal from nothing here it's Bernie

Feels like there's a story there.

Fede gave up. He stopped running in the second half, stopped pressing, was behind the play.

[TorcidaSplit]

Looks like they’ll play for another draw with these subs. Taking Fede off was crazy

[rydermike]

What is Kaye doing there. Some refs might've given red on that

[jloome]

No communication. Kaye is about to be triple teamed and no one tells him 'time', or 'man' or anything to get him to move the ball.

[jloome]

Three man wall seems a mistake.

[Smokecell]

At least Kaye was playing like a gave a shit there. I respect the decision to pull Fede. Nobody should be immune to having their performance called out.

[JoesphNdo]

Fede gave up. He stopped running in the second half, stopped pressing, was behind the play.

I don't disagree and this isn't the first game by any means, I see the logic but still don't think I'd sub him off but wouldn't argue too much on that point

But more so it feels like a story. Bernie not playing for the coach and Bradley finally losing patience? Something is broken there and has been for weeks

[Amir.]

you dont take two touches and then try to turn centrally thirty yards away from your goal...and he was already facing two players who were closing him down so he knew he had to get rid of it...he cant be starting anymore...a strong central midfielder is badly needed at the transfer window

[Mr. Inbetween]

I don't love that. Maybe it's an injury/tiredness maybe it's sending a message but... bad as he's been, if anyone would steal a goal from nothing here it's Bernie. Feels like there's a story there.

Yes, Agree. IIRC Fede was embraced/hugged by BB when subbed off just last match. Hope the story is nothing more than a usual; and not like Franklin’s (in)action, being the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[Bushmancan]

Wow Fede off Wow.

You have to wonder, with LI not playing and Bernie not performing. Have the DPs stopped playing for BB?

[jloome]

How does the ref think that boot came off? The wind?

[Smokecell]

You have to wonder, with LI not playing and Bernie not performing. Have the DPs stopped playing for BB?

What’s Osos injury listed as btw? Not concussion related is it?

[Slick]

Nearly 80 mins thru, and we haven't had a shot on net

[rydermike]

Akinola walking to bench. Probably coming on for Sapong

[Bushmancan]

What’s Osos injury listed as btw? Not concussion related is it?

Listed as Knee, Star said strained MCL

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW…

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1660103263499309058

[Richard]

Yes I agree Bob pulls Fede making him the scapegoat, Bob will never accept that his time here is a failure

That idiot Manning gave Bob a 5 year guaranteed contract. We're fucking doomed.

[rydermike]

That idiot Manning gave Bob a 5 year guaranteed contract. We're fucking doomed.
Youd think after giving Curtis a 5year deal he'd learn not to do that

[Slick]

Ok, I'm done with this. A year and 3 months in, that's more than enough. It's not working out. Bradley out!!!

[jloome]

Shouldn't that come back for goalie interference?

[FiveThreeTwo]

Plays Benny Hill Theme

[rydermike]

Of course

[JoesphNdo]

I love SJ and he's been a great signing...but that's on him

Gutting because Austin were absolutely fucking garbage. They hadn't a clue how to get a good look on goal, not sure if we deserved anything but they definitely didn't either. Very frustrating.

[Richard]

"Worst team in the world" - Koevermans

[Ultra & Proud]

At least we lost in a good way.

[benito]

How many points have they given away this year. Geez

[Amir.]

sean johnson has to take control of the box there

[OgtheDim]

What are you going to do there - the goalie interference isn't offside so was never coming back. SJ calls for it so nobody goes up.

He made a great save on the first header but that's just a chaos goal.

[jloome]

We remain a shambles.

His tactics remain a mistake for this team. We're playing a team with five men pressing us high, and we're still setting up through the drop-back six, as if Michael were here.

It's just fucking woeful to watch.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I'm gonna steal a quote from that shoresy TV show;

"It's not that they don't love to win.. it's that they don't hate to lose."

[Bushmancan]

That loss was more painful than the DCU game to begin the season. It is time to either write this thing off or make something big happen, i could watch kids try hard annd play hard and get beat. Watching players show no pride in the badge… looks like the Leafs, never thought i would say that about TFC.

[Smokecell]

Patience is one thing with this team. Naïveté is another.

[Kiwi10]

No goals in the last 4 league games is dire.

[notthesun]

Everything about this club, top to bottom, is absolutely horrendous right now. Don't know what else to say.

[Bushmancan]

Everything about this club, top to bottom, is absolutely horrendous right now. Don't know what else to say.

Manning out and unfortunately BB out…. Its badly broken, and you cannot blame injuries.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I love SJ and he's been a great signing...but that's on him… Gutting.. Very frustrating.

Thinking so too. Should have stepped on, or ‘tried’ stepping over Austin player; hesitated. Likely may have then gotten an interference call?

[OgtheDim]

We remain a shambles.

His tactics remain a mistake for this team. We're playing a team with five men pressing us high, and we're still setting up through the drop-back six, as if Michael were here.

It's just fucking woeful to watch.

Jloome, did you see the second half? We weren't doing that for the last 45..

BB actually got it right in the second half - we started playing it out wide.

Chaos goal gets them the result but Austin in the second half did not look like scoring - nor did we. Neither team is all that good.

*********

A lot of people at the beginning of this game saying we were going to get shelled.

We wern't. Almost stole a point.

I get it...some people in here were waiting 90+ minutes to write "I Hate this!" I'm not happy either. Its not good enough & our 2 DP's are not worth their pay this season.

But that was not Armas ball pathetic.

I'm out till tomorrow...

[Amir.]

1 win 2 draws 5 losses without Michael Bradley...need a solution for central midfield...all three dps havent been good enough and need to step up...hedges is a beast and one of the only bright spots right now

[SoccMan2]

Best move Bradley did all night was take Bernadeschi off , guy looked lost out there and is a give away machine , it’s really embarrassing to watch a guy still in his prime and with his pedigree play like he has been playing most of this season . Moreover, Insigne has been just as bad I have no words to explain how bad these two guys have been so far this season .

[Bushmancan]

^^^I am glad we didnt steal a point in hindsight, then we would be saying not so bad. WE DIDN’T HAVE A SHOT ON GOAL. This isn’t the MLS cup and we are playing for penalties. Either the veterans step up or sit them and play TFCII. It was great to see Hedges back.

[Soccerpro]

After watching game #1 last year, it was obvious that a #6 ball winner was required (think Andreas Cubas in Vancouver).

For some reason, BB has been cool with opposing teams steamrolling through our midfield for the last two years. Only he can answer why. We've never won the midfield battle since BB arrived. Why BB and so many others are fine with ignoring that major reason as to why we're so uncompetitive has been baffling to me.

Other obvious issues: Lack of a solid MLS goal scorer. Jimenez was a decent striker but seemed to fall out of favour at the club. Dimonande (who hasn't played much on his 4 teams in the last 2 years) and Akinola (who is a fat, out-of-shape, terrible soccer player who would be lucky to be in CPL) was our forward line before BB brought in 34 year old Sapong, who is an average MLS striker.

Besides Laryea, we also have absolutely no width. Opposition teams just pack the middle and we can't do much about it.

MAK has been a shadow of himself since coming to TFC. Osorio also hasn't been the same since his serious head injury a year ago.

The Italians are clearly frustrated. Signing two DP wingers, who don't stretch the field and lack the pace to be 1v1 threats was also a very bad sporting decision.

Think about it, 2 DP wingers? Why???

Several players we start every match have no business being in MLS.

To summarize:

We are old, unbalanced, overpaid, and broken.

[Ultra & Proud]

Jloome, did you see the second half? We weren't doing that for the last 45..

But that was not Armas ball pathetic.

With Armas ball we created chances and had shots. This team is playing worse than that one but with better players.

If you Play a match anywhere, give up everything, do nothing, and your hope is a scoreless draw with the highest paid team in the league then you need to look in the mirror.

Austin isn't a good team either and they missing their main good player.

[Oldtimer]

Ratings, defence 7/10, offence 0/10, substitutions 6/10, referee 6/10 (handled potential violent situation well). BB overall 3/10. Someone like Vanney would have adjusted the formation to be able to pull off a tie, BB is too inflexible for a situation like this.

[Ultra & Proud]

Someone like Vanney would have adjusted the formation to be able to pull off a tie

Well he'll be available tomorrow probably.

[reggie]

this is year one level crap

[Red CB Toronto]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1660068148240949249

What is up with TFC listing 9 on the bench Saturday, is that two too many or am I missing something here?

[Amir.]

nine allowed in mls

[Soccerpro]

Ratings, defence 7/10, offence 0/10, substitutions 6/10, referee 6/10 (handled potential violent situation well). BB overall 3/10. Someone like Vanney would have adjusted the formation to be able to pull off a tie, BB is too inflexible for a situation like this.

His team is currently in last place in the West with some great players on his team.

[Mr. Inbetween]

On SJ; all the time in the world. Various angles…

https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1660110377915674625

[noxx98]

https://twitter.com/plattoli/status/1660129050038267904
Shots fired...

[ag futbol]

I thought the defence played quite well tonight. Attack wise we are beyond hopeless. There is no way we have a coherent plan in that area. It’s basically “throw it out wide and someone bottle the magic” every time.

The party line that’s coming out about injuries is ridiculous. Why should we wait around for everyone to get healthy when they couldn’t even win games as a first choice 11?

[Areathrasher]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1660129559889563651?t=IgugDVUqbMFHQSLJuXPYdA&s=19


Heh

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1660129559889563651?t=IgugDVUqbMFHQSLJuXPYdA&s=19


Heh

It's all tendencies and trusting players to see opportunities then?

I mean it's not like we haven't seen that from other MLS managers like Mariner and Mo.

[Mr. Inbetween]

For the record, seems Insigne was not on the flight…

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1660069106253455360

[FiveThreeTwo]

https://twitter.com/plattoli/status/1660129050038267904
Shots fired...

At least he confirms what many folks on here have been saying for a while about there being a lack of specific moves and plays, or just a basic foundation of movements that the team can build off of in the buildup or final thirds. It would also explain why when he switches to a more youth/TFC2 lineup they look like lost puppy dogs out there having no reference point/chemistry to build plays and really just yolo around the pitch hoping to find an opportunity. Brutal

That still doesn't change from my view that berna's has been sub-par with sloppy uninspiring play... the lost balls, overdribbling, tough passes and just giving up on plays and walking around as the opponents counter attack off a ball they just stole from him/his peers- and probably deserved a sub-off as a wakeup call at somepoint.

Like someone else mentioned earlier... if Berna and Insigne feel there's a lack of direction and ownership of setting up a basic tactical framework from Bob and his coaching staff (and they start just ignoring him), I'm wondering how long before these two start doing their own coaching on the field with all the young guys on the pitch and just start ignoring Bob on ingame adjustments or calls (if there any). That's a good way to loose a locker room if he hasn't, and MB4 isn't going to be on the field to regulate. Either way it feels like were coming to a head if things don't change - and Berna speaking out like that feels like a pretty big shot

[Red CB Toronto]

nine allowed in mls

18 is the norm, when did 9 come into MLS, have never seen TFC dress that many?

[Amir.]

around covid time they increased and it is now that

[noxx98]

18 is the norm, when did 9 come into MLS, have never seen TFC dress that many?
Pulled up a random box score from this year... https://theathletic.com/football/game/atlanta-united-vs-toronto/ifnP6EPHwojBqjwu/ I think the 9 subs became the norm post COVID.
Liverpool also had 9 on the bench today: https://www.google.com/search?q=liverpool&rlz=1C1UEAD_enCA982CA982&oq=liverpool&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j46i67i131i433i650j0i67i131i433i 650j0i67i650l6j0i271.2175j1j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11s38h668p;2;/m/02_tc;ln;fp;1;;;

[Amir.]

vs philly for example both teams had nine subs

https://www.transfermarkt.com/philadelphia-union_toronto-fc/index/spielbericht/3993748

[Slick]

https://twitter.com/plattoli/status/1660129050038267904
Shots fired...

Good for him. This has got to be Bob's last game.

[notthesun]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/austin-fc-scores-in-stoppage-time-to-defeat-injury-ravaged-toronto-fc/


Bernardeschi, speaking to reporters in a virtual availability after the game, praised his teammates saying they had left it all out on the field.

But the former Juventus player, who wears his heart on his sleeve, then seemed to take square aim at Bradley's tactics.
"We don't play," the Italian star, the fourth-highest-paid player in the league at US$6.295 million this season, said in English. "We play long pass. We don't have an idea to play."

"I think this city, the fans, everybody, don't deserve this," he added. "And I think maybe we need to change something. We need a little bit more tactics. We need an idea how we play, because this is the real problem for me. It's impossible to play like this when we play without idea."

Asked whether the problem was in executing the game plan or the game plan itself, Bernardeschi replied: "We don't have a construction in the game. When the player has the ball, we don't know how to pass the ball. This is the real problem. Because we don't train that.

"We lose every game. We tie, we lose, we tie, we lose. Sometimes we win. But I can't believe this, sincerely. This is no good for the young players. They need to get better and grow up with an idea of football … We need the idea of football."

Fucking yikes.

[jloome]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/austin-fc-scores-in-stoppage-time-to-defeat-injury-ravaged-toronto-fc/



Fucking yikes.

It's Mo/Mariner ball all over again. They teach them to work in triangles, they teach them to attack from the top corners of the box as the most dangerous zones, and to overlap and support.

But they don't prescribe/plan their offensive movement. I know that sounds mind boggling but this seems to come up a lot with managers who developed in MLS. They trust the players to read the game and take the opportunities... but that's incredibly fucking naive, basically expecting any level of pro to play what amounts to Total Football.

I'm horrified if that's what's going on here. Our player base is too diverse in talent to have no guidance in the offensive zone other than the basics.

Good, modern managers put together patterns of movement and shifting the ball to move defenders out of position and create imbalances or mismatches. These guys manage like NCAA. IT's just tactically insufficient to the level the league is now at. If we had a more balanced lineup, ala LAFC, we would just win more with this style because the 1-on-1 matchups would fall to us.

But we don't have a squad as deep or talented as them. We have a top-heavy squad. WE need more rigidity and planning to make up for that.

But I don't think he knows how to coach that way. We clearly need a Tata-style adaptive coach. Not just in shape on gameday, but in depth of training and preparation for each opponent.

[los sonadores]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/austin-fc-scores-in-stoppage-time-to-defeat-injury-ravaged-toronto-fc/



Fucking yikes.

Saw the game late… we managed to get through the poor, over-run first half and make the necessary adjustments to push higher. I thought even though they had Rigoni, Zsardes and Fagundez to bring on and we had… who the hell was that? A point out of the game would not have been unjust. 92nd minute, fuck that’s tough.

But Bernie in the press conference… that’s got to be one Italian officially in mutiny. We’ll see what’s said tomorrow but I can’t see how that’s not calling for a change of manager.

[los sonadores]

It's Mo/Mariner ball all over again. They teach them to work in triangles, they teach them to attack from the top corners of the box as the most dangerous zones, and to overlap and support.

But they don't prescribe/plan their offensive movement. I know that sounds mind boggling but this seems to come up a lot with managers who developed in MLS. They trust the players to read the game and take the opportunities... but that's incredibly fucking naive, basically expecting any level of pro to play what amounts to Total Football.

I'm horrified if that's what's going on here. Our player base is too diverse in talent to have no guidance in the offensive zone other than the basics.

Good, modern managers put together patterns of movement and shifting the ball to move defenders out of position and create imbalances or mismatches. These guys manage like NCAA. IT's just tactically insufficient to the level the league is now at. If we had a more balanced lineup, ala LAFC, we would just win more with this style because the 1-on-1 matchups would fall to us.

But we don't have a squad as deep or talented as them. We have a top-heavy squad. WE need more rigidity and planning to make up for that.

But I don't think he knows how to coach that way. We clearly need a Tata-style adaptive coach. Not just in shape on gameday, but in depth of training and preparation for each opponent.

That does sound nuts!

Edit: I’ve been listening to Bradley during the after match questions and he doesn’t often have much to say about tactics… there is a sort of dumbness there (“this happened and then this happened and then this happened”) but it’s difficult to believe that there is no attempt to train pattens of movement, and to prepare for specific opponents, etc… except to see the static-ness of our attack (which was true even when we were winning after the Italians arrived last year). “We have no idea of football” is pretty damning.

Okay, I’m with you. Tata for a season. Otherwise, I shudder to think about who Manning’s next choice will be. And the problem is that who has any idea how to replace Manning? which is really what needs to happen. How many American corporate suits who also would have to deal with the Argos know anything much about football? Certainly the upper management who would be hiring this person knows very little. This is the problem with a deathly slow moving mega-corporate ownership. When things happen to fall into place (almost by chance) the flowing money is much to our advantage.

[portu]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/austin-fc-scores-in-stoppage-time-to-defeat-injury-ravaged-toronto-fc/



Fucking yikes.
Rare to see a quote actually be worse than the Twitter snippet.

"Fire BB" without saying "Fire BB" from Fede here.

[Mr. Inbetween]

... But Bernie in the press conference… that’s got to be one Italian officially in mutiny. We’ll see what’s said tomorrow but I can’t see how that’s not calling for a change of manager.

Let's see if BBradly just got fragged? Have not reviewed all BBradley post match comments. Though he seemed to not want to add any confrontational fuel to any fire from the few I did; in a damage control or CYOA mode. Interesting to see in the next few days if anything plays out; walk backs like Fede was just misunderstood, etc.

https://twitter.com/Gian_411/status/1660116438697353218

[Mr. Inbetween]

For the record, seems Insigne was not on the flight…

Follow-up...

https://twitter.com/TomasKarageo/status/1660123726485094400

[Hala Hrvatska]

Follow-up...

https://twitter.com/TomasKarageo/status/1660123726485094400

What caught my eye was the "in a funny way"....same crap as his classic in a "in a good way".

Drives me nuts...ffs...lol.

Enough of this clown, has to be fired. The team cannot sink any lower than this (or can it?).

Fede without saying the words "fire Bob Bradley", did so last night in that masterclass interview. Enough is enough.

[PawTar711]

the game was well played, i think that the backline needs to quickly render a quick training session though in order to get better hastly. when ever bernadeschi sp is playing so far back, he also decides to take it forward creating is he doing all the work by himself, or do the other players need to get the ball forward instead of playing back. too much playing back is not good... sincerely jay

[Oldtimer]

Good, modern managers put together patterns of movement and shifting the ball to move defenders out of position and create imbalances or mismatches. These guys manage like NCAA. IT's just tactically insufficient to the level the league is now at. If we had a more balanced lineup, ala LAFC, we would just win more with this style because the 1-on-1 matchups would fall to us.



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/p39ENzUyRqM2AyHBfW-SjSkIx5w=/0x0:2667x4000/920x613/filters:focal(1224x1484:1650x1910):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/68623434/1174534878.0.jpg

"Do you miss me yet?

[OgtheDim]

Reminder that Vanney left because he wanted to go home.

******

Feda had it right in his video interview

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/postgame-sound-federico-bernardeschi-may-20-2023#postgame-sound-federico-bernardeschi-may-20-2023

Players tried really hard, the young guys tried hard - the tactics offensively (not formation) are wrong. He indicated not shooting was a tactical issue. Players are trying with the right mentality. But the tactics are not good enough offensively.

[ag futbol]

Reminder that Vanney left because he wanted to go home.

I mean, I’m sure that was partial motivation. But it sounded like Manning basically made him coach for his new contract which I’m sure was more than enough motivation to leave town on its own.

I think he’s better than what we have but I don’t particularly think we should revisit history by bringing him back again.

[ronzilla]

Vanney had the luxury of riding on the back of a hot DP.

Currently sitting dead last with LA galaxy.

Hard pass.

[jloome]

Reminder that Vanney left because he wanted to go home.
.

Where are you getting that from?!?

He said quite specifically when he left that he wanted to stay but they just never approached him with a new offer. They deliberately didn't negotiate a deal with him, so that he would take other offers they knew were out there, because Ali wanted to hire Chris Armas. The quote was something like "I kept expecting an offer but it never happened."

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/why-greg-vanney-decided-step-away-toronto-fc-and-whats-next

[OgtheDim]

Where are you getting that from?!?

He said quite specifically when he left that he wanted to stay but they just never approached him with a new offer. They deliberately didn't negotiate a deal with him, so that he would take other offers they knew were out there, because Ali wanted to hire Chris Armas. The quote was something like "I kept expecting an offer but it never happened."

See the quote.

He waited to see if the LAG gig would come up - that was his dream - to coach the team he played for.

Its not working out & I would have to think about whether he'd be good back up here - unlike others, I think he didn't ride DP's to success. And he has a track record of making domestic prospects better. And he teaches what to do in situations.

BUT...can he adjust to and move with the MLS game circa 2024 compared to 2017? BB doesn't seem to have made that adjustment (Arena has).

[ag futbol]

Where are you getting that from?!?

He said quite specifically when he left that he wanted to stay but they just never approached him with a new offer. They deliberately didn't negotiate a deal with him, so that he would take other offers they knew were out there, because Ali wanted to hire Chris Armas. The quote was something like "I kept expecting an offer but it never happened."


See the quote.

He waited to see if the LAG gig would come up - that was his dream - to coach the team he played for.

Its not working out & I would have to think about whether he'd be good back up here - unlike others, I think he didn't ride DP's to success. And he has a track record of making domestic prospects better. And he teaches what to do in situations.

BUT...can he adjust to and move with the MLS game circa 2024 compared to 2017? BB doesn't seem to have made that adjustment (Arena has).
IIRC series of events was something like this:

- Curtis arrives
- Manning and Curtis leave Vanney’s contract status open heading into his final year (implying he’s coaching for his job)
- Vanney does exceptionally well with an injury depleted lineup and him leaving suddenly looks more like a black-eye than a bonus
- Curtis and Manning start renewal discussions with Vanney around half way through the season
- Vanney realizing his stock is hot and the LA job might open basically delays negotiating (also not being Curtis and Manning’s guy left less incentive to return).
- LA job opens and Vanney skips town.

So not exactly black and write. But I would bet if Vanney was reporting to Tim B and Tim L, he would have stayed in a good place rather than headed over to LA.

Again, I don’t mind him leaving and think it’s alright we parted ways. I just think it wasn’t as simple as “he wanted out and he left”. Our situation at TFC certainly contributed to his desire to leave.

[ensco]

I had forgotten that part of the Vanney episode. Boy that rhymes with what happened with Dubas.

The pattern of MLSE forcing players and management to serve out the last year of a contract before dealing with re-upping, regardless of the signal it sends, is pretty distinctive, and remarkable.

[jloome]

See the quote.

He waited to see if the LAG gig would come up - that was his dream - to coach the team he played for.

Its not working out & I would have to think about whether he'd be good back up here - unlike others, I think he didn't ride DP's to success. And he has a track record of making domestic prospects better. And he teaches what to do in situations.

BUT...can he adjust to and move with the MLS game circa 2024 compared to 2017? BB doesn't seem to have made that adjustment (Arena has).


I think you both need to read more critically.

At no point did he say he wanted to leave in that story.

All he confirmed as that he wouldn't sign the offer they made.

The offer sat there for months unsigned, it says. You don't sit there stewing over an offer if you plan to leave.

And in that same story, Manning says they made him the best offer they thought they could and confirms they forced an answer out of him. So they clearly didn't even negotiate with him. They gave him a 'take it or leave it' deal after everything he'd accomplished.

To me, that says this was about money... and maybe also respect. If they'd paid him what he wanted, he would've stayed.

Instead, they pulled an MLSE: they left it to the last moment to try to force him to take the deal they wanted.

That had nothing to do with his "dream job." They didn't respect him enough to give him what he wanted, OR he asked for too much, thinking he ended out with a great job either way. My tendency is to think the former.

[Oldtimer]

- Vanney does exceptionally well with an injury depleted lineup and him leaving suddenly looks more like a black-eye than a bonus


There's zero doubt in my mind that he would be doing better with our current injury-depleted team than Bradley. For one he would be able to handle our DPs much better. For two, he'd actually be doing, like, tactics.


Vanney had the luxury of riding on the back of a hot DP.



I think we can finally put that narrative to rest. Insigne is much bigger a star than Giovinco ever was. The fact that Insigne is not performing as virtually everybody (including Insigne) thought he would means something, it shows that coaching matters.

[ag futbol]

There's zero doubt in my mind that he would be doing better with our current injury-depleted team than Bradley. For one he would be able to handle our DPs much better. For two, he'd actually be doing, like, tactics.



I think we can finally put that narrative to rest. Insigne is much bigger a star than Giovinco ever was. The fact that Insigne is not performing as virtually everybody (including Insigne) thought he would means something, it shows that coaching matters.
I mean, in fairness Giovinco has a style of play that is very in-tune with MLS. He’s very individualistic, fast (or was fast), and will try to make magic from nothing and seems to relish the idea of trying to put the team on his shoulders. His free kick taking was also incredibly underrated (he was spectacular in this area).

LI and Bernie are better players but they don’t have that same profile. They want to play within the broader team, which is good but may not make them as natural of a fit here.

I’m not trying to absolve Bob or criticize our DP’s here but I think it’s fair to question fit. TFC should have learned this lesson after Defoe. They need to understand how someone’s game will work best coming into MLS where they won’t have teammates playing as at high a level vs Europe.

[los sonadores]

I think you both need to read more critically.

At no point did he say he wanted to leave in that story.

All he confirmed as that he wouldn't sign the offer they made.

The offer sat there for months unsigned, it says. You don't sit there stewing over an offer if you plan to leave.

And in that same story, Manning says they made him the best offer they thought they could and confirms they forced an answer out of him. So they clearly didn't even negotiate with him. They gave him a 'take it or leave it' deal after everything he'd accomplished.

To me, that says this was about money... and maybe also respect. If they'd paid him what he wanted, he would've stayed.

Instead, they pulled an MLSE: they left it to the last moment to try to force him to take the deal they wanted.

That had nothing to do with his "dream job." They didn't respect him enough to give him what he wanted, OR he asked for too much, thinking he ended out with a great job either way. My tendency is to think the former.

It seemed like this at the time. I don’t think Curtis wanted him. And if Manning had really wanted Vanney to stay there would have been more respect offered via contract.

Also, one would have think that Vanney would get that he was not Curtis’ first choice and also that Curtis is a wanker and it might be smart to leave.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW and in regards to a point Fede mentioned in his post match presser…

https://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments/13nugsp/tfc_passing_networks_vs_austin_fc_may_20_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[OgtheDim]

I call bogus - Antonoglu didn't play the first half.

These stats say otherwise

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1701872/LiveStatistics/USA-Major-League-Soccer-2023-Austin-FC-Toronto-FC


NEVER trust reddit.

[rydermike]

I call bogus - Antonoglu didn't play the first half.

Antonoglou started the match. He played the first half. Kosi subbed him at half

[OgtheDim]

Augh...I blanked on that.

Stats aren't right but...yeh...ur right.

[Canary10]

If that’s accurate….well, no comment needed.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I call bogus - Antonoglu didn't play the first half. These stats say otherwise

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1701872/LiveStatistics/USA-Major-League-Soccer-2023-Austin-FC-Toronto-FC

NEVER trust reddit.

I see. Sounds like simple advice. I will then never have to trust jloome again! :confused: :smilewinkgrin:

[jloome]

I see. Sounds like simple advice. I will then never have to trust jloome again! :confused: :smilewinkgrin:

Yeah, I'm the only person you can trust on reddit.

Seriously, it's a public posting site. Everything is suspect unless you've double checked it first at source, then by questioning anything dubious (for example, this looks nothing like any other passing pattern for a team in history) to whoever's posting it and expecting an explanation.

If there's no original source that is verifiable and trusted, and no explanation, it's bullshit.

Most of the things in life that look dramatically off the curve are just erroneous or manipulated. This stands true of everything from football passing patterns to meteorological predictions to study findings that are massively out of wack.

EDIT: I should note that after three years off it, and a few months on, I'm back off commenting on Reddit. Too much infuriating behavior.