Voyaguers QF - Club Foot @ TFC Tuesday May 9 7pm - Am I ...

[OgtheDim]

Coming Through?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhS9LnDoo_w&ab_channel=ChemicalBrothersVEV O

*****

Have At It People

[MikeForbes]

Please no Gareth Wheeler, please no Gareth Wheeler...

[Red CB Toronto]

I will be very curious if this is the first we see of Thomas Romero in net? Typically the backup has gotten the Cup matches in the past but do they really want to chance it in a single game elimination with an eye towards Champions League. It could be a bright spot in what has been a disappointing season so far. I am sure we will see some squad rotation considering the match is Tuesday and will be the first of two vs. Montreal this week.

[Joe Kool]

I will be very curious if this is the first we see of Thomas Romero in net? Typically the backup has gotten the Cup matches in the past but do they really want to chance it in a single game elimination with an eye towards Champions League. It could be a bright spot in what has been a disappointing season so far. I am sure we will see some squad rotation considering the match is Tuesday and will be the first of two vs. Montreal this week.

I want a full 1st string squad for this one. Higher priority than the MLS fixture for me. We cannot lose this to Montreal in our stadium. No way.

[ag futbol]

I want a full 1st string squad for this one. Higher priority than the MLS fixture for me. We cannot lose this to Montreal in our stadium. No way.
I mean, if Bob is still here on Tuesday, I don’t know how he’d survive dropping this one. The team that gutted its roster 3 months ago and kept all its money in its pocket is going to come into your barn and beat your high priced talent more than a year into your project?


Suspect TFC will throw everything it has at this.

[SenorDingDong]

I will be very curious if this is the first we see of Thomas Romero in net? Typically the backup has gotten the Cup matches in the past but do they really want to chance it in a single game elimination with an eye towards Champions League. It could be a bright spot in what has been a disappointing season so far. I am sure we will see some squad rotation considering the match is Tuesday and will be the first of two vs. Montreal this week.

Not sure how anyone in the TFC org could have the confidence to start the B squad lol.

[Richard]

I mean, if Bob is still here on Tuesday, I don’t know how he’d survive dropping this one. The team that gutted its roster 3 months ago and kept all its money in its pocket is going to come into your barn and beat your high priced talent more than a year into your project?


Suspect TFC will throw everything it has at this.

I think Manning will do everything he can to keep Bob in place for as long as possible.

If this goes pear shape Manning wont be here for very long, he spent tons of money on Insigne and Berna, and got Bob in to control everything.

The record post Bez/Vanney isn't good.

[ensco]

I do think if BB leaves, all 3 of BB, MB and Manning have to leave.

Which means they would need a replacement to take fully charge in place (and for all you guys dreaming of Tata, that ain’t him - Tata is a guy you rent for a year to get a decent team over the top)

All of which means, I think, that all of BB, Manning and MB have until the end of 2024, realistically. We would need renewals for next year to drop off, and then poor play in the first half of 2024… before Tanenbaum even reached for the phone, to ask Mark Abbott what to do….

[jloome]

I do think if BB leaves, all 3 of BB, MB and Manning have to leave.

Which means they would need a replacement to take fully charge in place (and for all you guys dreaming of Tata, that ain’t him - Tata is a guy you rent for a year to get a decent team over the top)

All of which means, I think, that all of BB, Manning and MB have until the end of 2024, realistically. We would need renewals for next year to drop off, and then poor play in the first half of 2024… before Tanenbaum even reached for the phone, to ask Mark Abbott what to do….

I defer to people who know him and MLSE better, but if Manning's survival instinct were finely honed, he'd bring in Tata before his own job even became an issue. IT probably isn't, yet, on the corporate history I see.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I do think if BB leaves, all 3 of BB, MB and Manning have to leave… before Tanenbaum even reached for the phone, to ask Mark Abbott what to do….

MLS OG… required to stay… AMLSSP/Messi… A Puppet-Master…

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/blob:http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/100905c9-aa38-44a9-b123-dd21ace7d1fe

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/blob:http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/58e5fb5d-464c-47ac-ab57-bfaa7a8a0fe6

[ag futbol]

I defer to people who know him and MLSE better, but if Manning's survival instinct were finely honed, he'd bring in Tata before his own job even became an issue. IT probably isn't, yet, on the corporate history I see.
Historically Manning’s survival instinct has been to leave town before shit hits the fan. But, not sure he’s getting another MLS gig after this one so he might just ride it out.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I do think if BB leaves, all 3 of BB, MB and Manning have to...


I defer to people who know him and MLSE better, but if Manning's survival instinct were finely honed, he'd bring in Tata before his own job even became an issue...

I think a ‘Tata’ move would be the logical move; time honoured tradition. However, the monkey in that wrench, the anchor or the albatross of that equation, is MB. As ensco may be implying, not sure a ‘lateral’ push to only Sporting Director, with a ‘Tata’ sort as mister, and MB than in an expected reduced role, would be internally manageable or beneficial? Though not even sure that if ‘any clean break’ would itself not reverberate into some squad chaos; who else may have to go? I do not believe the club is at the point/standard of when BB left LAFC. And, IIRC, only about half to a third of that group was retained before they won the championship. I suspect the rebuttal question would be… did MB in-still their club/play identity? Or was it really, mostly Cherundolo?

[jloome]

I think a ‘Tata’ move would be the logical move; time honoured tradition. However, the monkey in that wrench, the anchor or the albatross of that equation, is MB. As ensco may be implying, not sure a ‘lateral’ push to only Sporting Director, with a ‘Tata’ sort as mister, and MB than in an expected reduced role, would be internally manageable or beneficial? Though not even sure that if ‘any clean break’ would itself not reverberate into some squad chaos; who else may have to go? I do not believe the club is at the point/standard of when BB left LAFC. And, IIRC, only about half to a third of that group was retained before they won the championship. I suspect the rebuttal question would be… did MB in-still their club/play identity? Or was it really, mostly Cherundolo?

You're mixing up MB and BB so I'm not sure what the point is.

Why would either of them have any role if we fired Bob and hired Tata? Michael is a player. His deal expires this year. Bob is the sporting director, sure, but they can hire another one.

As for LAFC, Bob instilled their identity, it's clear from their playing style. But they are performing BETTER in that tactical set under Cherundolo.

I doubt they'd lack for resumes, given MLSE's wealth and apathy.

[jloome]

I think if we lose this, he's in trouble. You all can consider MLSE as stubborn as you want, but it'll be a major embarrassment given Montreal's teardown and comparative roster value.

[Oldtimer]

I will be very curious if this is the first we see of Thomas Romero in net? Typically the backup has gotten the Cup matches in the past but do they really want to chance it in a single game elimination with an eye towards Champions League. It could be a bright spot in what has been a disappointing season so far. I am sure we will see some squad rotation considering the match is Tuesday and will be the first of two vs. Montreal this week.


I want a full 1st string squad for this one. Higher priority than the MLS fixture for me. We cannot lose this to Montreal in our stadium. No way.

Zero chance we play any marginal players, unless injury forces it. I'm sure MB has informed BB of how important this is to this Canadian club.

[Red CB Toronto]

Zero chance we play any marginal players, unless injury forces it. I'm sure MB has informed BB of how important this is to this Canadian club.

Over the history of time the backup goalkeeper has always played the VCup matches for the most part, plus with only two games between matches some squad rotation could be in the cards. Not saying it will happen but something to think about. Plus hopefully Matt Hedges is ok after getting pulled during the pre-game warm ups Saturday night after consultation with the medical stuff.

[los sonadores]

Over the history of time the backup goalkeeper has always played the VCup matches for the most part, plus with only two games between matches some squad rotation could be in the cards. Not saying it will happen but something to think about. Plus hopefully Matt Hedges is ok after getting pulled during the pre-game warm ups Saturday night after consultation with the medical stuff.

I like your opening, “over the history of time”. It’s nice to find that we have deep time.

It’ll be interesting to see if Romero starts. Johnson has been very good. I think he goes again. We need this one. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see Romero start a league match soon. Bob seemed to have some faith in him in LA.

And Man, yeah, we need Hedges. But it could very well be a Rosted Maibike pairing. He looked pretty good in his cameo the other night. Obvious lots of very intriguing tools to work with.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I think if we lose this, he's in trouble. You all can consider MLSE as stubborn as you want, but it'll be a major embarrassment given Montreal's teardown and comparative roster value.

Agree. Moreover, I would suggest if TFC lose, the situation morphs officially into this territory…

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/288/bb7/72884c7f98149bd422e488510277f2b0b9-20-dumpster-fire.rsquare.w700.gif

[Mr. Inbetween]

You're mixing up MB and BB so I'm not sure what the point is. Why would either of them have any role if we fired Bob and hired Tata? Michael is a player. His deal expires this year. Bob is the sporting director, sure, but they can hire another one. As for LAFC, Bob instilled their identity, it's clear from their playing style. But they are performing BETTER in that tactical set under Cherundolo. I doubt they'd lack for resumes, given MLSE's wealth and apathy.

A try at clarifying my point...


I think a ‘Tata’ move would be the logical move; time honoured tradition. However, the monkey in that wrench, the anchor or the albatross of that equation, is MB. As ensco may be implying, not sure a ‘lateral’ push (of BB) to only Sporting Director, with a ‘Tata’ sort as mister, and MB than in an expected reduced role (as a player), would be internally manageable or beneficial? Though not even sure that if ‘any clean break’ (firing of BB and/or MB) would (in of itself) not reverberate into some squad chaos; who else may have to go (inevitably when such a manager gets involved)? I do not believe the club is (even) at the (similar) point (or) standard of (play of) when BB left LAFC. And, IIRC, only about half to a third of that group was retained before they won the championship. I suspect the rebuttal question would be… did MB in-still their club/play identity? Or was it really, mostly Cherundolo?

I will have to disagree, if you are suggesting firing BB and keeping MB will not affect the short-term dynamics of the locker-room. For now, MB's DNA is still firmly woven into TFC's identity. Though, I am tending to be less and less against such a move, I am stating that any change of the managerial status quo, especially to any 'Tata' sort, means likely even more added windows for squad development. Simply, there would be an effect once that thread is pulled; some fall-out to such an action/transition.

[Oldtimer]

Agree. Moreover, I would suggest if TFC lose, the situation morphs officially into this territory…

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/288/bb7/72884c7f98149bd422e488510277f2b0b9-20-dumpster-fire.rsquare.w700.gif

The calls for BB to be sacked will be high on this board if TFC loses to Montreal... muted among ordinary SSH, and non-existent in MLSE's board room.

[JoesphNdo]

The calls for BB to be sacked will be high on this board if TFC loses to Montreal... muted among ordinary SSH, and non-existent in MLSE's board room.

Curious why you think the sentiment around SSH is more pro Bob Bradley? That doesn't seem to be the case where I am, or on any other form of social media

Agree on mlse boardz though

[OgtheDim]

Curious why you think the sentiment around SSH is more pro Bob Bradley? That doesn't seem to be the case where I am, or on any other form of social media

Agree on mlse boardz though

Less pro & more not really noticing...


Most SSH are not thinking about the manager -I heard one guy on Saturday say "Seba would have made that" for the Insigne free kicks - that's more the thinking that goes on.

Social media is not representative of opinions, by and large of any group.

Most people are happy to go to a game & resigned to the team being imperfect. The stuff we discuss, they don't.

[OgtheDim]

Sooooooo......weather should be good.

[JoesphNdo]

Less pro & more not really noticing...


Most SSH are not thinking about the manager -I heard one guy on Saturday say "Seba would have made that" for the Insigne free kicks - that's more the thinking that goes on.

Social media is not representative of opinions, by and large of any group.

Most people are happy to go to a game & resigned to the team being imperfect. The stuff we discuss, they don't.

Maybe. I'm just very wary of projecting entire opinions onto people where you've no way to poll what they think. I also think our support is so small that the social media presence represents a much higher % of season ticket holders than most sports teams

Not saying I believe SSH believe one thing or another, just that I don't know if it's possible to know they believe differently to the online commentators

[Red CB Toronto]

The calls for BB to be sacked will be high on this board if TFC loses to Montreal... muted among ordinary SSH, and non-existent in MLSE's board room.

The big thing to remember right now is MLSE still does not have a President and CEO. I am pretty sure regardless of what happens tomorrow night, Bob Bradley's plight is pretty far from the minds of either Bell or Rogers chief executive.

[Red CB Toronto]

Sooooooo......weather should be good.

Love that, Saturday was not nice to experience , shorts and shirt, great weather. Going to be a pretty good week of weather overall in the city.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The big thing to remember right now is MLSE still does not have a President and CEO. I am pretty sure regardless of what happens tomorrow night, Bob Bradley's plight is pretty far from the minds of either Bell or Rogers chief executive.

Very true; and strange. Over a year now? Getting to a point, corporately, that they should just have announced the interim, her, as such. However, that did not stop MLSE/Raptors from dealing with Nurse. I suspect even if the TML do not get blown out, there will be some sort of repercussions, realignment or bloodletting there as well. Hell, even the Argos just made that highly questionable/debatable managerial rehire. I do not think a re-evaluation circle back to TFC would be so taxing; given MLSE’s overall situations. Seems, their, the MLSE Board’s, agenda may already be humming and set; in motion by the prevailing circumstances and mood to deal with all.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I am expecting or hoping for commitment and engagement by the TFC players. I want to see some passion on the pitch against CFMTL. Not unlike the other day’s Superclasico between River Plate and Boca Juniors.

[Red CB Toronto]

Very true; and strange. Over a year now? Getting to a point, corporately, that they should just have announced the interim, her, as such. However, that did not stop MLSE/Raptors from dealing with Nurse. I suspect even if the TML do not get blown out, there will be some sort of repercussions, realignment or bloodletting there as well. Hell, even the Argos just made that highly questionable/debatable managerial rehire. I do not think a re-evaluation circle back to TFC would be so taxing; given MLSE’s overall situations. Seems, their, the MLSE Board’s, agenda may already be humming and set; in motion by the prevailing circumstances and mood to deal with all.

The coaches plight if its TFC, Raptors, Leafs etc are in the hands of the team's president.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The coaches plight if it’s TFC, Raptors, Leafs etc are in the hands of the team's president.

Typically, yes; operationally, sure. However, corporately, pragmatically, everything may be under the purview, even influence of (individual members of) a Board. I am sure their Food & Beverage Department has a (Vice-) President that acts with independence. And yet, I would like to see that individual try and change MLSE’s Coca-Cola offerings/contract to Pepsi.

[OgtheDim]

In actual game news (we have what.....4 threads now discussing BB & BM)


https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1655608085463937043

[Luanda]

How many Cdns do we need to field?
With OSO out....the starting 11 could be a problem.

[Mr. Inbetween]

WTF? Now O’Neill too?

[jloome]

WTF? Now O’Neill too?

He pulled something during the game, which was why Mabika came on for his debut.

[Mr. Inbetween]

He pulled something during the game, which was why Mabika came on for his debut.

Yes, after match chatter about a pulled muscle, but I was selfishly hoping it was just more of a bad cramp than a strain.

[OgtheDim]

How many Cdns do we need to field?
With OSO out....the starting 11 could be a problem.

https://canadasoccer.com/events/canadian-championship/?c=canChamp#section_about


Canadian content is a focus of the competition and since 2017, regulations state that each team must field a minimum of three eligible Canadian Internationals as starters for each match.


Kaye, Franklin & Laryea would do it

[SenorDingDong]

In actual game news (we have what.....4 threads now discussing BB & BM)


https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1655608085463937043

Can Hedges please be back for Saturday? Our injuries this season are ridiculous.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just win. The amount of money on this team. Just win this tournament.

[Mr. Inbetween]

https://canadasoccer.com/events/canadian-championship/?c=canChamp#section_about


Kaye, Franklin & Laryea would do it


That’s right. Those three suggestions would be my selection. Still, IIUC, the key phrase is ‘as starters’! I think, technically, any or all of those players could be subbed out immediately after a start by BB if he had to? Given the ‘more recent’ five substitutions rule, TFC may have some needed flexibility from a historic perspective against the traditional three substitution situation.

[SenorDingDong]

That’s right. Those three suggestions would be my selection. Still, IIUC, the key phrase is ‘as starters’! I think, technically, those players could be subbed out immediately after a start by BB if he had to? Given the ‘more recent’ five substitutions rule, TFC may have some needed flexibility from a historic perspective against the traditional three substitution situation.

I think we might see Guti make an appearance in this match for Franklin (or Laryea).

[OgtheDim]

So Richie is banged up now too

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1655623048119177217


Ugh...just ugh.

[jloome]

So Richie is banged up now too

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1655623048119177217


Ugh...just ugh.

What the fuck is going on? We get so little info but there has to be an explanation for practically every important starter taking pulls or knocks this early in the year and being INCAPACITATED.

Like, what the fuck is going on? These numbers are ridiculous.

[Ultra & Proud]

What the fuck is going on? We get so little info but there has to be an explanation for practically every important starter taking pulls or knocks this early in the year and being INCAPACITATED.

Like, what the fuck is going on? These numbers are ridiculous.
Lower Body FC conitunes working towards a full infirmary XI.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Circumstances, fate, conveniently dousing the potential for a raging dumpster fire; BB gots the horseshoes.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Lower Body FC conitunes working towards a full infirmary XI.

Apropos! Brilliant! :)

[Red CB Toronto]

What the fuck is going on? We get so little info but there has to be an explanation for practically every important starter taking pulls or knocks this early in the year and being INCAPACITATED.

Like, what the fuck is going on? These numbers are ridiculous.

That is what happens when neither of the two dailies in Canada's largest city have someone on the TFC beat. Both the Sun and Star have been using Neil's CP copy recently. Beezer retired from The Sun at the end of March and The Star has not had one for a few years. It not anyone like John or Michael's fault who cover this team on a daily basis but there is nor pressure to break stories and MLSE knows it, so they can control the narrative.

[jloome]

That is what happens when neither of the two dailies in Canada's largest city have someone on the TFC beat. Both the Sun and Star have been using Neil's CP copy recently. Beezer retired from The Sun at the end of March and The Star has not had one for a few years. It not anyone like John or Michael's fault who cover this team on a daily basis but there is nor pressure to break stories and MLSE knows it, so they can control the narrative.

Yes, they just have no idea of that control’s value, or what to do with it.

[Red CB Toronto]

Yes, they just have no idea of that control’s value, or what to do with it.

Assume it is because they are used to Maple Leafs where each writer/media outlet is trying to outdo each other on a daily basis. In a conversation once with a national columnist he said it could be nuts for him to take a local Leaf beat gig because of the the pressures to break stuff, and some of the things you have to write about like chasing down each and every minor boo boo a player suffers.

[Oldtimer]

Curious why you think the sentiment around SSH is more pro Bob Bradley? That doesn't seem to be the case where I am, or on any other form of social media

Agree on mlse boardz though

Most random fans outside of some in the hardcore aren't so laser focused on BB. In fact they tend to focus on players rather than on coaching. They aren't pro or con BB, they don't think about him much at all.

[Ultra & Proud]

Most random fans outside of some in the hardcore aren't so laser focused on BB. In fact they tend to focus on players rather than on coaching. They aren't pro or con BB, they don't think about him much at all.
It's starting though. I see grumblings now on all TFC posts across social media.

He is getting the blame for trading for Sappong since that was a largley unpopular move amongst the regular fans. Since most of them don't understand windows and such they see it as screwing us for the year with Sappong when Messi was available (or similar).

[JoesphNdo]

Most random fans outside of some in the hardcore aren't so laser focused on BB. In fact they tend to focus on players rather than on coaching. They aren't pro or con BB, they don't think about him much at all.

You may be right, but how do you know? I agree social media etc aren't reflective of general sentiment as it self selects to a certain type of person, but I don't see how you can speak for 25-30,000 people with any confidence, either. We've no idea what the general fan sentiment is, there's no way to know. Certainly, the SSHs i stand with and know are usually very reactionary and basically 'sack the coach' as a default even earlier than most on this board, but that's also not enough of a sample size to infer anything about the masses

[los sonadores]

No Richie also? Jesus, I hope not. “And one or two unnamed players.” We’re already starting two rookies with less than, what, seven career starts? And adding Maibike into central defence who arrived in Toronto last week and sounds like a project.

It no doubt is true Bob’s system is inflexible and demands technical ability, serious working together within the group… and even so can be upset (with Vanney we always seemed to be resilient enough to do it against LAFC when the chips were down). But if half the team’s starting eleven are rookies and guys that arrived in town a couple of weeks ago plus others who have had only a match or three this season one can’t really expect a lot of “real chemistry” as MAK put it.

[Joe Kool]

I heard one guy on Saturday say "Seba would have made that" for the Insigne free kicks - that's more the thinking that goes on.

This made me laugh. Haha. I was at the Canada-Honduras game and there was a group of guys there and it was one guy's first game watching soccer live. His buddy goes "If you like this, you should come to TFC games. It is just as fun but much cheaper because they suck". LOL...some people have no clue.

[OgtheDim]

This made me laugh. Haha. I was at the Canada-Honduras game and there was a group of guys there and it was one guy's first game watching soccer live. His buddy goes "If you like this, you should come to TFC games. It is just as fun but much cheaper because they suck". LOL...some people have no clue.


Funny thing is, and this is from my thoughts in the south, a lot of people go to TFC games who don't seem to cry tears if they lose - not enjoy it as much and its more fun if they win but I don't see many people looking like they are going home to kick the dog & beat up the wife based on the result. (that is an obvious extreme -no implications to anybody here - this forum is passionate and that is cool but I don't think any of you are THAT nuts to think a TFC result is a personal make or break point for life)

[Oldtimer]

You may be right, but how do you know? I agree social media etc aren't reflective of general sentiment as it self selects to a certain type of person, but I don't see how you can speak for 25-30,000 people with any confidence, either. We've no idea what the general fan sentiment is, there's no way to know. Certainly, the SSHs i stand with and know are usually very reactionary and basically 'sack the coach' as a default even earlier than most on this board, but that's also not enough of a sample size to infer anything about the masses

Of course I haven't asked 30,000 people. It's not a scientific survey, I just have contacts with a sample of "less involved" people who occasionally attend a few games per season. Not SSH, not hardcore, but like an occasional match. Most clubs in the world have people like that and they are a valid part of what helps a club be part of a community. For years I've been aware of a disconnect between the hardcore and supporters vs the casual fans.

You can believe my informal "survey" is accurate or not. That's the great thing, football is about opinions.

[jloome]

Of course I haven't asked 30,000 people. It's not a scientific survey, I just have contacts with a sample of "less involved" people who occasionally attend a few games per season. Not SSH, not hardcore, but like an occasional match. Most clubs in the world have people like that and they are a valid part of what helps a club be part of a community. For years I've been aware of a disconnect between the hardcore and supporters vs the casual fans.

You can believe my informal "survey" is accurate or not. That's the great thing, football is about opinions.

The thing is, the hardcores make up a fair chunk of their season ticket base. Go on Reddit r/tfc right now; I think they're up to four separate Bob/Manning out threads already. I'm not sure they can both survive much past July if this keeps up.

If we lose two to Montreal, an actual outpouring of disgust will likely start, and casuals will be far less inclined to go.

[Joe Kool]

Funny thing is, and this is from my thoughts in the south, a lot of people go to TFC games who don't seem to cry tears if they lose - not enjoy it as much and its more fun if they win but I don't see many people looking like they are going home to kick the dog & beat up the wife based on the result. (that is an obvious extreme -no implications to anybody here - this forum is passionate and that is cool but I don't think any of you are THAT nuts to think a TFC result is a personal make or break point for life)

I certainly hope nobody takes it that serious. I see the majority having fun win or lose too. Disappointed maybe but nothing too extreme luckily. These games don’t even tend to have the best attendance so not even sure the casual soccer fan in TO take it too seriously.

[Ultra & Proud]

If we lose two to Montreal, an actual outpouring of disgust will likely start, and casuals will be far less inclined to go.

We lose these two and I think the mood at the next home match will be toxic. With a possibility of protest.

[Mr. Inbetween]

We lose these two and I think the mood at the next home match will be toxic. With a possibility of protest.

Pitchforks of loud and constant booing!

[los sonadores]

Of course I haven't asked 30,000 people. It's not a scientific survey, I just have contacts with a sample of "less involved" people who occasionally attend a few games per season. Not SSH, not hardcore, but like an occasional match. Most clubs in the world have people like that and they are a valid part of what helps a club be part of a community. For years I've been aware of a disconnect between the hardcore and supporters vs the casual fans.

You can believe my informal "survey" is accurate or not. That's the great thing, football is about opinions.

I usually look for tickets in the same few sections on the same side of the stadium and I don’t know why it surprises me but it’s rare that the folks around me seem to know very specifically about what they are watching. I mean that they might know football or they might not know it, but either way it doesn’t seem as if they know who more than a few players are at best. (Certainly the number of Italians has increased but they might know of only the two Italians.)

Also, a large number of people spend a lot of time either showing up late, leaving early or spending so much time in food and beer lines, etc that they miss quite a few minutes of the part of the game that they actually do attend. None of this feels like the ‘life and death’ sort of stuff of the serious fan. Maybe they could be doing anything with their time and money, it just happens to be a soccer match this time.

If this is so I’d be surprised if most people are brooding over who our coach is or even what our record is exactly. It is true that people tend to like to associate with winners. If the Jays are any indication with all those many seats that are sold only when the team is winning. But not necessarily sold to those who know much about baseball.

The E in MLSE is entertainment… which is to say “popular entertainment” and in this town that isn’t necessarily football itself but the football “experience”. (To use that word in the most crass way.)

[Red CB Toronto]

It will really be telling if at some point this morning the Reds announce a short term signing to fill out the 18 for tonight? That will tell us how injured this team really is.

[OgtheDim]

The thing is, the hardcores make up a fair chunk of their season ticket base. .

The season ticket base is 21k


Going to a game soon abuses me of the idea that the hardcore is the base.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, look its a

GAME DAY :scarf:



(My Toronto till I die includes supporting the team in games after crap underwhelming performances)

[JoesphNdo]

The season ticket base is 21k


Going to a game soon abuses me of the idea that the hardcore is the base.

The Tfc subreddit has 19k subs. Not all are SSHs of course (not by a long shot), but add in here, other forums and twitter and social media starts to account for a very very very healthy %, much more than something like the leafs

The fact that the ratings tell us that nobody, like nobody, watched Tfc on tv says our casual fan base is pretty small and we're a niche team that appeals mostly to more hardcore fans. Not exclusively, but I think the fan base skews far far far more that way, and is represented more online, than nearly any major sports team

[Oldtimer]

The season ticket base is 21k


Going to a game soon abuses me of the idea that the hardcore is the base.

A lot of tickets are owned by people and businesses who entertain clients. Especially in the boxes or the premium seats. That's why with warm sunny weather the stadium is full and on cold rainy evenings it's empty. Hardcore fans show up when it's less than ideal.


The Tfc subreddit has 19k subs. Not all are SSHs of course (not by a long shot), but add in here, other forums and twitter and social media starts to account for a very very very healthy %, much more than something like the leafs

The fact that the ratings tell us that nobody, like nobody, watched Tfc on tv says our casual fan base is pretty small and we're a niche team that appeals mostly to more hardcore fans. Not exclusively, but I think the fan base skews far far far more that way, and is represented more online, than nearly any major sports team

Casual fans aren't on sub reddits discussing a team that they are only slightly into. That's me with the Jays. I've been to a few games, I've never discussed, Tweeted, or otherwise expressed on social media any opinion about the Jays. I admit I don't know much about baseball. TFC has people like that too. More than you might think.

So if TFC loses this particular game to a championship that casuals barely understand, it's not going to result in a coach being fired.



If this is so I’d be surprised if most people are brooding over who our coach is or even what our record is exactly. It is true that people tend to like to associate with winners. If the Jays are any indication with all those many seats that are sold only when the team is winning. But not necessarily sold to those who know much about baseball.

The E in MLSE is entertainment… which is to say “popular entertainment” and in this town that isn’t necessarily football itself but the football “experience”. (To use that word in the most crass way.)

If TFC is a bottom feeder at or near the end of the season they might do something. They have investments to recoup.

[Joe Kool]

I rarely go to Leafs games but when I do it is just because I happen to get tickets from someone. I don't really know the players at all these days except a couple they use in marketing so are better known names. I don't know the standings and as much as I hope they win while I am there I also don't put too much thought into it if they don't. I just have a good night out. I also remember about 10 years ago being at a Raptors game with a friend for the first time just for the outing and had him explain to me the rules and terms used while we were there. Went to many Raptors games after that but for the most part a good night out was the only requirement. I am sure when it comes to soccer there are many like me with those other sports. When I think of it that way I can see why it is the way it is with many fans in the stadium. We also have weather involved which plays a part for the casual fan.

But for us hardcore, game day and a chance to beat Montreal. We better get the win or else :)

[Graeme]

I assume this is onesoccer only? Have been trying to google to no avail yet...

[Oldtimer]

I assume this is onesoccer only? Have been trying to google to no avail yet...

One Soccer, or better yet Fubo (which carries all One Soccer matches).

[jloome]

A lot of tickets are owned by people and businesses who entertain clients. Especially in the boxes or the premium seats. That's why with warm sunny weather the stadium is full and on cold rainy evenings it's empty. Hardcore fans show up when it's less than ideal.



Casual fans aren't on sub reddits discussing a team that they are only slightly into. That's me with the Jays. I've been to a few games, I've never discussed, Tweeted, or otherwise expressed on social media any opinion about the Jays. I admit I don't know much about baseball. TFC has people like that too. More than you might think.

So if TFC loses this particular game to a championship that casuals barely understand, it's not going to result in a coach being fired.



If TFC is a bottom feeder at or near the end of the season they might do something. They have investments to recoup.

The casual numbers in the season ticket base are irrelevant compared to the hardcores; if the casuals think the soccer is bad and don't like losing, they'll stop renewing very quickly and their ranks in our current numbers will quickly become irrelevant.

They've had a treble in recent history. In Toronto, that's probably good for five to 10 years of solid loyalty. But this isn't the leafs. IF they keep losing, the casuals are the FIRST people who will cancel their season tickets, not the last.

Casuals go to things because they're fun; a losing team that plays badly and gets booed for it isn't fun.

You think the spectacle of a 31-year-old Insigne putting one shot of seven on net is going to get them out? I don't think so.

[Joe Kool]

I assume this is onesoccer only? Have been trying to google to no avail yet...

Yeah they have these competitions. I see it on the FuboTV schedule on the OneSoccer channel. If you don't want to sign up for the year on FuboTV or OneSoccer there used to be a day pass on OneSoccer to stream for the day for about $5 if I recall. I have had FuboTV ever since they added OneSoccer and now they have EPL as well so even better for the annual price.

[OgtheDim]

The casual numbers in the season ticket base are irrelevant compared to the hardcores; if the casuals think the soccer is bad and don't like losing, they'll stop renewing very quickly ......


I doubt that or they would have left last year.

This team doesn't play badly/defensively. It can't score but when it does, its fun to watch. This isnt Preki ball. Right now, we are still a nice quick night out for adults or somebody taking a kid and knowing its past their bed time but so what.

I had a 5 year old behind me on Saturday - in 116. 4 teenagers beside me in some Dad's seats. A senior couple two rows in front. The Asian family with SS to my left. 10 rows up from the jumping up and down Kings of the North. This isn't the 500 level Friday night Jays thing nor is it hardcore reddit people nor is it Leafs games or CFL games out west. This isn't superclassico South America or English League. Its a VERY different crowd. They go for the game, hope its good & for the night out. They don't give a crap about tactics. They want to see good local soccer. The closest thing I would say it is to is Junior A hockey or 21K of lower league (Conference North level) support.

They go because its soccer, local, relatively cheap & its still an event.

NOW...if the team doesn't make the playoffs this year, that might change. But it ain't changing mid season.

[OgtheDim]

So Nigel Reed is calling one game of the 2 at 7 tonight.

Would be nice if it was him calling the TFC game.....

[jloome]

I doubt that or they would have left last year.

It just takes longer. Remember: this club was sold out for its first five years. They were terrible. The sellouts ended. That's why we ended up with Lieweke, Bez et al in the first place. The Bloody Big Deal was important because attendances were declining, season tickets were declining.

So it will happen. It just takes longer in Toronto than smaller cities because the level of other options and distractedness always slightly negates or mutes the passion.

It is not a good sign that for multiple home games, scores of free tickets have been offered by fans on Reddit's r/tfc. We even had one on this site last week. Not cheap, free. Season ticket holders just can't be bothered to go.

There's no economic system anywhere where apathy doesn't eventually lead to ruin.

[jloome]

So Nigel Reed is calling one game of the 2 at 7 tonight.

Would be nice if it was him calling the TFC game.....

He's a solid pro. He's never been spectacular but he's also never bad. Given his pedigree I'm surprised Apple didn't pick him up. Perhaps he didn't want to travel all over the U.S. every weekend. I did his show with Bob Iarusci once as the guest. He seemed very nice, very engaged.

I understand they were interested in Wileman but HBO offered him a better gig, so he's going to be doing US men's team games for HBO Max while also still working for TSN.

[noxx98]

So if Oso and Richie aren't able to go, who are our 3 Canadians to start? I assume that rule is still in place. Kaye, Franklin and maybe Akinola? Maybe JMR?

[los sonadores]

So if Oso and Richie aren't able to go, who are our 3 Canadians to start? I assume that rule is still in place. Kaye, Franklin and maybe Akinola? Maybe JMR?

Hoping Richie can go. Otherwise it’s a tough one - after being short wingers and strikers and now for the first time having them healthy, it would be weird to have to sit someone so Akinola plays. Petretta sounded like he might be back as well.

[jloome]

So if Oso and Richie aren't able to go, who are our 3 Canadians to start? I assume that rule is still in place. Kaye, Franklin and maybe Akinola? Maybe JMR?

Ayo or Jordan up top.

I suspect it might be Peruzza. I think Bob, from his comments, sees Ayo as more a wide forward than a number nine, which is what he was prior to the MLSISBACK thing.

[los sonadores]

He's a solid pro. He's never been spectacular but he's also never bad. Given his pedigree I'm surprised Apple didn't pick him up. Perhaps he didn't want to travel all over the U.S. every weekend. I did his show with Bob Iarusci once as the guest. He seemed very nice, very engaged.

I understand they were interested in Wileman but HBO offered him a better gig, so he's going to be doing US men's team games for HBO Max while also still working for TSN.

Apple TV is a bit like the internet/digital world overall. If there is history it’s often random or without context (and hence not really history). So far we’ve had different commentators every time I’ve watched. Often they don’t seem to know well the teams they are calling.

But more than than, in sports, watching one’s own team meant hearing your own voice (sometimes the voice of the national network). The voices were continuous with the fans and sometimes even meant more than the players. To think of Canada, what would the significance of Foster Hewitt or Danny Gallivan if they’d had to work 30 teams broadcasts?

I think Reed’s always been our strongest play by play voice. Maybe not more than a solid professional but one I could listen to easily and who more or less dignifies the games he calls. Maybe he could speak a bit less, but I get adapting from Brit radio to Canadian TV.

[los sonadores]

Ayo or Jordan up top.

I suspect it might be Peruzza. I think Bob, from his comments, sees Ayo as more a wide forward than a number nine, which is what he was prior to the MLSISBACK thing.

I don’t know, if he really thought of Ayo as a wide player why did he settle on Oso there? Oso who isn’t a wide player. Not that he won’t try him there again, but to me it sounded like something to save face (for management and the player) - justify still having him on the roster when bringing in yet another new striker.

[Captain]

I need help. I transferred tickets for tonight’s game to someone. On my end it shows that the transfer went through. On her end she can’t access the tickets. Will the ticket booth outside the stadium be able to sort this out?

[jloome]

I don’t know, if he really thought of Ayo as a wide player why did he settle on Oso there? Oso who isn’t a wide player. Not that he won’t try him there again, but to me it sounded like something to save face (for management and the player) - justify still having him on the roster when bringing in yet another new striker.

Because Oso is a better player.

He also started Ayo there, prior to Oso. He didn't do very well.

[los sonadores]

Because Oso is a better player.

He also started Ayo there, prior to Oso. He didn't do very well.

Yeah, I know. The point is he hasn’t done well there and was dropped even after training there in preseason for a player that isn’t a winger and wasn’t doing very well either. I guess this means mostly Ayo should be bought out.

Tough though to finally have healthy and preferred strikers and have to drop them to start a Canadian who isn’t scoring. How long do the three have to play before they can be replaced by non Canadians?

[los sonadores]

I need help. I transferred tickets for tonight’s game to someone. On my end it shows that the transfer went through. On her end she can’t access the tickets. Will the ticket booth outside the stadium be able to sort this out?

I wish I could help you. That happened to me also. Unfortunately my friend hasn’t been back since and ticketmaster refused to offer any sort of refund. Get there as early as you can and hope someone can be found to sort it out. Good luck!

[Kiwi10]

I need help. I transferred tickets for tonight’s game to someone. On my end it shows that the transfer went through. On her end she can’t access the tickets. Will the ticket booth outside the stadium be able to sort this out?

Yes normally will call booth at the north end of the stadium is pretty solid at fixing these issues. Your friend should have email confirmation of the transfer which should be enough paper trail for them especially if they have your personal info email etc. to back it up

I just had the same thing happen but the ticket showed up after 15 minutes so hopefully it's just a slow systems night.

[OgtheDim]

Hmm...there is a pregame.

[OgtheDim]

Montreal lineup - not weak

https://twitter.com/cfmontreal/status/1656058407684644864

[OgtheDim]

Our lineup - also not weak

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1656059351813988352

[SenorDingDong]

Our lineup - also not weak

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1656059351813988352


I think Petretta may have started over Franklin if not for the Canadian thing.

Other then that yea strongest XI we have with our injuries.

[jloome]

Our lineup - also not weak

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1656059351813988352

If ever something said two teams struggling, its having an early-round cup match-up in which they play mostly starters.

[ronzilla]

Anyone have a stream, feel free to share.

https://sportshub.fan/event/toronto_montreal_132362023/

[MikeForbes]

Anyone have a stream, feel free to share.

I echo this. Wanna watch, but really don't want to commit 15 bucks to what could basically be a one game thing.

[OgtheDim]

Oh gawd...One Soccer even when on mute just looks so....lame.

[OgtheDim]

Wheeler in the pregame - instamute but that means he's not doing the game.

[los sonadores]

Sapong between LI and Bernie. Let’s hope we’re able to use our 9 tonight.

[ronzilla]

I echo this. Wanna watch, but really don't want to commit 15 bucks to what could basically be a one game thing.

ICYMI, top left link seems to be working fine
https://sportshub.fan/event/toronto_montreal_132362023/

[OgtheDim]

No Nigel Reed but successfully avoided Terry Dunfield.

[MikeForbes]

Anyone have a stream, feel free to share.

https://sportshub.fan/event/toronto_montreal_132362023/


ICYMI, top left link seems to be working fine
https://sportshub.fan/event/toronto_montreal_132362023/

Thanks, brother!

[jloome]

The guy Crave had doing Champions League last week for Philly LAFC was freakin' excellent. Be nice if we got that dude.

EDIT: Nope. Ah well.

[Amir.]

sirois will likely blunder...gotta take advantage

[OgtheDim]

WTF was that coin toss? That looked like the away team called & he flipped it before getting the call from the Impact guy AFTER he showed him what it was?!@?!?!!

[jloome]

Fuck, Kobe. Bad touch dude. Can't have first teamers who can't trap an f'ing ball.

[jloome]

We're still playing uptight.

[SPALE]

Free stream until I get shut down lol
Https://www.twitch.tv/spale_tv

[OgtheDim]

Faster ball gets somewhere but when we hold & play it back..issues

[jloome]

We've played through the middle deliberately twice, including Insigne turning inside immediately twice.

I think someone saw those passing lanes from the last game and adjusted.

That's a good sign at least, even if Rosted already has one boneheaded pass.

[jloome]

Servania's got to put that back across instead of shooting from the bad angle. Straight tap in for Sapong.

[oranje boven]

The small contingent of Mtl fans just kicked out by police …

[Red CB Toronto]

They just threw out the entire MTL supporter section.

[Amir.]

these short passes from the back when opponent is playing high is very risky...gotta go long to sapong more often as he has shown he can really win battles

[jloome]

Did his ankle.

[ag futbol]

Arrg that’s so frustrating. Feel bad for the kid, hope he’s back soon.

Edit: on the positive side I like this One Soccer commentary team. Very matter of fact and not trying to fill the air at every second.

[Amir.]

get rutty in there

[jloome]

Arrg that’s so frustrating. Feel bad for the kid, hope he’s back soon.

Looked like a typical roll sprain. As long as nothing broke, two weeks tops.

[jloome]

Wow, Choniere's quite the diving little puss, isn't he?

[FootBallAZ]

Lol so apple left us hanging for this game thankful for fox sports

[OgtheDim]

Less cagey

More...not all that good

[jloome]

Lol so apple left us hanging for this game thankful for fox sports

Apple doesn't have the rights to cup games.

[jloome]

Why do we have a star above the crest? We haven't won anything in an age.

[FootBallAZ]

It look so empty and the supporters section too

[OgtheDim]

Why do we have a star above the crest? We haven't won anything in an age.

Can I introduce you to the crest of Chicago?

or

Uruguay?

[ag futbol]

How is that not a card? This ref is really poor

[jloome]

Can I introduce you to the crest of Chicago?

or

Uruguay?


Haha, but the little one right above is supposed to signify a title win the year before. That's why we added it.

Also, the Fire must rue the day NBC greenlighted the show "Chicago Fire", as searches for the team barely register.

Oh fuck.

yeah, well... we spend all time fucking around and not doing anything, that's going to happen.

[FootBallAZ]

Omg that was ugly off a free kick lol

[OgtheDim]

Why did we bring up the big guys for a free kick that was going to be an obvious shot...that's my question

[jloome]

Why did we bring up the big guys for a free kick that was going to be an obvious shot...that's is my question

And it's a good one.

Just dumb.

[ag futbol]

Why did we bring up the big guys for a free kick that was going to be an obvious shot...that's my question
Feels like a situation where guys should be well drilled and aware of responsibilities. Coello’s influence definitely showing after exiting game.

[benito]

Everyone watching the ball and not defending.

[jloome]

Bye Bye, Bob.

I mean, surely. This is embarrassing.

(Really not. A little bird at TFC tells me that Manning still expects him to turn it around, and believes this is somewhat down to MB and Hedges being out).

[SenorDingDong]

Bye Bye, Bob.

I mean, surely. This is embarrassing.

It's really ugly. Montreal has dominated.

[Amir.]

this teams best performer this year michael bradley is badly needed

[OgtheDim]

That second goal was amateur hour - the ball never went out and the call wasn't given & they all went to sleep.

[Ultra & Proud]

Bye Bye, Bob.

I mean, surely. This is embarrassing.

If it's ever to happen, you would have to think this is it.

[OgtheDim]

It's really ugly. Montreal has dominated.

No they haven't....like I get people got a narrative but those were two bone headed lack of concentration goals, not "domination".

[portu]

Are they trying to get him fired?

[FootBallAZ]

Bye Bye, Bob.

I mean, surely. This is embarrassing.

It's not happening man could you imagine he would have to admit to misjundegement of
Rosted
MAK
JJ
Petreta

And then everyone else casted off the team who still could have been useful.

[portu]

Wow are those boos? Rare BMO sight I feel

[FootBallAZ]

Bye Bye, Bob.

I mean, surely. This is embarrassing.


No they haven't....like I get people got a narrative but those were two bone headed lack of concentration goals, not "domination".

It's still dominating a week minded team

[benito]

Hopefully that wakes everyone up

[OgtheDim]

The "we are going to take 20 seconds to get EVERY GK started" thing is really awful to watch. Make up your mind and DO something.

[Amir.]

lets goooooooo

[SenorDingDong]

Mabika looks solid. Rosted is having big confidence issues

[portu]

God I hope we start bringing this back. Not a game to lose for any reason.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, look, quick ball movement moving forward gets a goal.

[ronzilla]

Referee is fuckin shit

[Ultra & Proud]

Oh, look, quick ball movement moving forward gets a goal.

That was one of two fast sequences per match we get to do. Have to make the next one count.

[OgtheDim]

Back to their second goal - Richie goes down asking for the foul & it doesn't come & they attack right where he was supposed to be, at pace.

Guy needs a talking to about responsibility over emotion.

[ag futbol]

this teams best performer this year michael bradley is badly needed
I’m sure tucking in as the third CB would have been exactly what we needed while Rea and Choinière ran threw midfield. I would welcome MB compared to who we have to field right now with injuries but let’s get real here.

[jloome]

this teams best performer this year michael bradley is badly needed

Dude, be as contrarian as you want, but there's not a statistical indicator on Earth suggesting he has been our best player this year.

[OgtheDim]

Oooo...nice of One Soccer with the heat.

[ag futbol]

Oooo...nice of One Soccer with the heat.
Sort of boiled down to desire at the end. Can’t say they are wrong to point that out.

We sort of picked ourselves up from the mat and rallied once we felt the embarrassment.

[OgtheDim]

If we had VAR, that might have been a red on Sepong.

[ag futbol]

If we had VAR, that might have been a red on Sepong.
We also might have got a penalty when he was pulled back in the box though :)

[jloome]

So JMR goes into the backline and Kerr goes up, I assume.

[SenorDingDong]

Berna looks really really off. Every play through him is dieing.

[Soccerpro]

This roster is so poorly/unevenly constructed. Add to the fact that key offseason additions are in their mid-30s and it's just mind boggling. This roster is built for win now but can't do that. it would be easier to stomach if there was some sort of long term plan, but we're even worse at developing youth.

[Amir.]

kerr in for franklin...rutty to lb

[stevep]

Is Bernie deliberately playing like shit he’s awful

[jloome]

That has to be penalty!

The defender literally stepped on Sapong's heel to prevent a shot, not even a call.

[OgtheDim]

Gives the ball to Bernadeschi...and he loses it on a dribble.


Rinse

Repeat

[Soccerpro]

CJ Sapong showing why he was easy to acquire...

[SoccMan2]

Bernadeschi has been crap now for how many games . The guy needs to step up I’m sorry for the money he is making , how many times is he going to get dispossessed or dribble into an opposing player !

[flambe]

what is this playing on, one soccer?
dont see it listed

nevermind, im an idiot

[Soccerpro]

what is this playing on, one soccer?
dont see it listed

Yes it is.

[jloome]

Bernadeschi has been crap now for how many games . The guy needs to step up I’m sorry for the money he is making , how many times is he going to get dispossessed or dribble into an opposing player !

he's trying too hard. He's holding the ball up and trying to beat a man every time and it's just foolishness.

[samuraizero]

MAK is just a pylon on the field. Why the f* does he keep starting, bring on some thirsty tfc2 kid.

[SenorDingDong]

MAK is just a pylon on the field. Why the f* does he keep starting, bring on some thirsty tfc2 kid.

He can make good defensive tackles but hes way too slow to move or pass the ball forward.

[Amir.]

much better second half for tfc...now just gotta find 1-2 goals and not concede

[OgtheDim]

He can make good defensive tackles but hes way too slow to move or pass the ball forward.

yeh, this.

Reminds me of Marky Delgado when he first came here - then he got told by somebody to take only 1 touch & pass & he got so much better.

[jloome]

MAK is just a pylon on the field. Why the f* does he keep starting, bring on some thirsty tfc2 kid.

We've been discussing what a false narrative this is in the last couple of days. He's statistically outperforming most of the team. We're just terrible.

That doesn't mean it isn't more obvious when he does something boneheaded, because the dude is huge. He stands out.

But they're all making the same mistakes he is. The last three games, we've basically deployed him as a defensive midfielder, so he hasn't been joining the play much.

[OgtheDim]

Interesting bit there when JMR wanted the ball to go forward towards Insigne & MAK insisted on it going back.

[OgtheDim]

That's a handball

This ref is baaaaad

[ag futbol]

Bernadeschi has been crap now for how many games . The guy needs to step up I’m sorry for the money he is making , how many times is he going to get dispossessed or dribble into an opposing player !
You know, my first thought watching the game today was Laryea has more impact on the team than any of our DPs. But the second thought was we saw absolutely brilliant play from Berna and LI last year, they just don’t look as engaged in 2023

[jloome]

That's a handball

This ref is baaaaad

I think he got the benefit for keeping his arm at his side. It hit him because he was turning, but his upper arm, at least, was tucked in. THey've been calling that as a non-handball this year (LAFC got away with one two weeks ago very similar against the Galaxy).

[OgtheDim]

Ugh....we just insist on holding onto the ball while we work out what to do next.

PASS the Ball ya numpties

[SenorDingDong]

You know, my first thought watching the game today was Laryea has more impact on the team than any of our DPs. But the second thought was we saw absolutely brilliant play from Berna and LI last year, they just don’t look as engaged in 2023

Insigne is at least running and opening up space with quick passes and touches. No idea whats going on with Berna though.

[ag futbol]

Insigne is at least running and opening up space with quick passes and touches. No idea whats going on with Berna though.
Call me crazy but I think we should move LI closer to midfield where he can get the ball more and impact the game. Dude is on an island up there too often

[samuraizero]

We've been discussing what a false narrative this is in the last couple of days. He's statistically outperforming most of the team. We're just terrible.

That doesn't mean it isn't more obvious when he does something boneheaded, because the dude is huge. He stands out.

But they're all making the same mistakes he is. The last three games, we've basically deployed him as a defensive midfielder, so he hasn't been joining the play much.


Not sure about the stats but what I've been observing as an outsider dummy is that MAK is where plays go to die and turnovers galore

[jloome]

Not sure about the stats but what I've been observing as an outsider dummy is that MAK is where plays go to die and turnovers galore

Again, that's all of them. He actually passes at a 90% clip and has fewer turnovers per game than the other midfielders.

What he DOES seem to have a habit of is doing it when deep, so it's dangerous.

[MikeForbes]

I can see why they picked up Mabika. Yeah, is still very raw, but he seems to read the game well and is a freakish athlete. If you look at it in a vacuum, swapping MacNaughton for Mabika is well worth the risk.

[jloome]

Wow, he's moved Kaye to the backline to try and get more offense.

That's a desperate sort of move.

[MikeForbes]

Who loves short shorts? Kosi loves short shorts

[OgtheDim]

Wow, he's moved Kaye to the backline to try and get more offense.

That's a desperate sort of move.

Rosted injured....Saturday is going to be makeshift.

[jloome]

He's expecting someone to go back post and no one takes the run.

Fuck, the dude ain't gonna do it all alone.

[samuraizero]

Wow, he's moved Kaye to the backline to try and get more offense.

That's a desperate sort of move.

This is scary.

[MikeForbes]

Rosted injured....Saturday is going to be makeshift.

Gotta think Pearlman will be coming up and starting.

[jloome]

Rosted injured....Saturday is going to be makeshift.

Adam Pearlman, come on down. If he's as good as everyone says, he'll get a chance to prove it, maybe.


Gotta think Pearlman will be coming up and starting.

Got there ahead of me Mike!

[SenorDingDong]

This team is really dysfunctional, broken, injured and frustrated. I'm not sure I see us winning another game for a bit.

[Amir.]

very narrow now with insigne rutty bernardeschi coming inside

[OgtheDim]

Insigne is really good at hitting the centre of the net where players are..usually the GK.

[ag futbol]

Insigne is really good at hitting the centre of the net where players are..usually the GK.
He’s two footed, no? I question why he doesn’t try and put the odd cross in. Our strikers must pull their hair out.

[jloome]

Insigne is really good at hitting the centre of the net where players are..usually the GK.

That wasn't a shot. Someone was supposed to run to the near post and redirect it. But nobody ran.

[MikeForbes]

Insigne and Bernie's free kicks have been less than stellar.

[OgtheDim]

That wasn't a shot. Someone was supposed to run to the near post and redirect it. But nobody ran.

I was talking about his free kicks but yeh, I see your point.

[MikeForbes]

My answer to everything I have ever wanted is right here.

https://twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1656003222476054528?s=20

[Amir.]

leave mabika up and pump balls in the box

[ag futbol]

My answer to everything I have ever wanted is right here.

https://twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1656003222476054528?s=20
Says he wants to play for trophies though (bad joke)

[MikeForbes]

5 minutes...

[MikeForbes]

Says he wants to play for trophies though (bad joke)

No trophy bigger than the League's Cup!

[jloome]

leave mabika up and pump balls in the box

He was in the bottom 4% of central defender for winning balls in the box last year across MLS for Miami on 17 games, despite his height. But maybe he's bulked up a little.

[jloome]

Bye bye CCL.

[Ultra & Proud]

I can see why they picked up Mabika. Yeah, is still very raw, but he seems to read the game well and is a freakish athlete. If you look at it in a vacuum, swapping MacNaughton for Mabika is well worth the risk.

Yeah this looks like one positive move we made. I don't think Mabika is ready yet but he's alright for a young CB.

[OgtheDim]

Not good enough. Only decent players out there were Sean J & Mabika.

System failure.


Saturday game thread is up already.


Going to log off for the night before I say something I might regret.

[Soccerpro]

How is there any hope BB turns this around?

[Ultra & Proud]

How is there any hope BB turns this around?

Yeah he just needs some time for the players to gel and whatever.

[Bushmancan]

Saying fire Bradley is too easy, but the last two games were two of the worst TFC games I have seen in a long while.

[Bobo]

Proud of our Canadian Championship quarter-finalists.

[SoccMan2]

Send the two DP players home they are useless I’m sorry !

[jloome]

Proud of our Canadian Championship quarter-finalists.

Remember how certain geniuses were sure Bernardeschi and Insigne would each score 20 goals, easy, in this league?

[jloome]

Send the two DP players home they are useless I’m sorry !

They're both extremely talented, but they've never played this style before. They're both accustomed to solid tactical units, where space is created, where defenders can't just pressure and challenge all the time because it'll create give-and-gos, outlets.

This is free-for-all American soccer. I mean, there's a plan there, but it's largely "find space, work triangles, go to the top corners of the box 'cause they're 'danger' spots."

It's just shit, and I've had enough.

[Oldtimer]

It's not that the players are struggling valiantly and just miss it. It's like they are lost and have no idea what to do.

[ag futbol]

Crappy scenes from the stands on Twitter. I don’t know who in the BMO security department thought sleeping on the away section was a good idea but here we are…

And.. aye yie yie, don’t throw your megaphone at our own players.

[samuraizero]

Crappy scenes from the stands on Twitter. I don’t know who in the BMO security department thought sleeping on the away section was a good idea but here we are…

And.. aye yie yie, don’t throw your megaphone at our own players.



Link?

[MikeForbes]

Crappy scenes from the stands on Twitter. I don’t know who in the BMO security department thought sleeping on the away section was a good idea but here we are…

And.. aye yie yie, don’t throw your megaphone at our own players.

Yeah. This is absolutely uncalled for. I couldn't give a fuck if MAK scored 6 own goals and had a 5% pass percentage. You are not entitled to act like this prick in the stands.

https://twitter.com/eyecposts/status/1656102654811025408?s=20

[samuraizero]

Well that guys gonna be banned lol

[notthesun]

Manning and Bob have to go. Horrendous leadership.

[Ultra & Proud]

Remember yesterday when I said if we lost both matches to Montreal our next home match would be toxic? I misjudged the timeline.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I just wanna see for one game a sense of pattern that I can recognize. Whether its consistant wide crosses into the middle of the box for sapong to head it. Or richie/berna, insigne/FB playing one-twos into the byline so that the midfielder or striker can run near post for a tap in while another runner goes mid net/far post and just overloading the box with dummies. Or even justa bunch of channel running in the center of the park where folks try to send sapong in while he beats the backline. Some sense of familiarity and to see a whole game of this lol.

Bobby seems to need to relearn the meaning 'can't see the forest for the trees' and get back to some basics- it doesn't mean he's selling out of his philsophies by not play horizontal all game and just having the lads string basic progressive passes forward and either make some channel runs or consistant wide service while they figure out al the gel and chemistry lol.

[Richard]

We have two wins in twelve competitive matches this season.

In any other league with the highest payroll that's an instant sack. It wouldn't even get past 8 games.

At this point I will take Frank Lampard until rest of the season.

[gracos]

great performance tonight boys, certainly showed you were hungry for the championship, am super impressed, and inspired

[benito]

Don’t know what to say. Disappointing.

[Gringo Starr]

That second MTL goal has to rank up there as one of the most infuriating TFC moments I have ever seen. How the hell did they all just quit on that play?

The only positive for me was the potential Mabika shows but he was limping by the end of the game so backline in MTL should be interesting

It feels like we are miles away from ever being good again

[Initial B]

Yeah. This is absolutely uncalled for. I couldn't give a fuck if MAK scored 6 own goals and had a 5% pass percentage. You are not entitled to act like this prick in the stands.

https://twitter.com/eyecposts/status/1656102654811025408?s=20
Waitaminit, wasn't one of those guys standing by the megaphone man also one of the guys who was fighting with the Impact supporters in the upper stands? Where is the security? MLSE is starting to look like a joke operation all the way from the Exec through to Ops.

[jloome]

I would so hate gegenpress, and think this roster is not built for it.

And Jesse Marsch was borderline disastrous at Leeds, albeit partly because the team is badly built.

But his players would run through a wall for him. I'm not sure they'd open a door for Bob. And if they did, they'd be so shit scared they'd stand there holding it for the next six people, too.

[Ultra & Proud]

I would so hate gegenpress, and think this roster is not built for it.

And Jesse Marsch was borderline disastrous at Leeds, albeit partly because the team is badly built.

But his players would run through a wall for him. I'm not sure they'd open a door for Bob. And if they did, they'd be so shit scared they'd stand there holding it for the next six people, too.

I know the answer is probably yes but I can't remember, did he run that when he was managing Montreal?

Also LOL at the door joke.

[jloome]

I just wanna see for one game a sense of pattern that I can recognize. Whether its consistant wide crosses into the middle of the box for sapong to head it. Or richie/berna, insigne/FB playing one-twos into the byline so that the midfielder or striker can run near post for a tap in while another runner goes mid net/far post and just overloading the box with dummies. Or even justa bunch of channel running in the center of the park where folks try to send sapong in while he beats the backline. Some sense of familiarity and to see a whole game of this lol.

Bobby seems to need to relearn the meaning 'can't see the forest for the trees' and get back to some basics- it doesn't mean he's selling out of his philsophies by not play horizontal all game and just having the lads string basic progressive passes forward and either make some channel runs or consistant wide service while they figure out al the gel and chemistry lol.

You post sane views.

But he's an MLS 1.0 coach. He has his 'system' and everything flows therefrom.

It's ridiculous. WE don't even have basic emergency outlets to break a trap. We end up passing the ball around the back under pressure!

WATCH Sean Johnson on goal kicks. He gave up on even trying short plays out today or looking for anyone but Sapong, and it's clear from his expression people aren't where they're supposed to be.

They're just not getting it, which means either the people coaching aren't conveying it well and motivating, or it's too complex for them. I suspect it's actually option three, a bit of both.

[jloome]

I know the answer is probably yes but I can't remember, did he run that when he was managing Montreal?

No, he adopted it at New York and became a Rangnick/Red Bull disciple. But he also lost a lot of games at Montreal. Doubtless working with Saputo is not easy.

[Auzzy]

After watching the lowlights on YouTube: Before the first Montreal goal, the ref (who was not the worlds fittest) ran faster than the majority of the TFC team.

[stevep]

Waitaminit, wasn't one of those guys standing by the megaphone man also one of the guys who was fighting with the Impact supporters in the upper stands? Where is the security? MLSE is starting to look like a joke operation all the way from the Exec through to Ops.

at least somebody had the guts to say to MAK what everyone is thinking
on instagram the posts are 75% baldy out, 25% hating on MAK

[glaze]

So I guess 114 is going to have their capo stand pulled again?

[stevep]

at least somebody had the guts to say to MAK what everyone is thinking
on instagram the posts are 75% baldy out, 25% hating on MAK
Here’s a good analogy for everyone
TFC fans love for MAK is comparable to Canadians love for Galen Weston

[AdamAM]

Is there really no chance this gets Bob canned? The commentators mentioned something about this being TFC’s first loss at home to MTL in the Canadian Championship ever….. with what has to be 5x their payroll that’s very damning.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The Kentucky Derby, Canada’s Wonderland, BMO Field… WTF? Love Is NOT In The Air!

[Mr. Inbetween]

Though an outlier manager replacement option for me; Smyrniotis could have been interesting, too bad no longer available. Let's Go Forge FC!

https://onesoccer.ca/a/bobby-smyrniotis-signs-extension-with-forge-fc-role-expanded-to-head-coach-sporting-director

[Mr. Inbetween]

Wow are those boos? Rare BMO sight I feel

They were. And they weren't hyperbolic.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Very poor and frustrating officiating! On the free kick before CFMTL's break-out and goal, I believe Brault-Guillard is way way off the line and actually moves before the strike and blocks it; should have been whistled back and re-took. IIUC, BB references this in his post match presser. Regardless, TFC were defensively positioned wrong during that play. Also, the play that involved CJ in CFMTL's box in the second half should have been a penalty kick IMHO. Even though CJ did have his hand/arm at the defender's waist-side to fight him off, the Defender also/already had both hands on him; one on that arm and one on his other shoulder, causing him to be off-balanced and go down.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Who loves short shorts? Kosi loves short shorts

He do! Nice legs :). I also think he may not be wearing any shin guards! With those low socks. Yikes!

[los sonadores]

Very poor and frustrating officiating! On the free kick before CFMTL's break-out and goal, I believe Brault-Guillard is way way off the line and actually moves before the strike and blocks it; should have been whistled back and re-took. IIUC, BB references this in his post match presser. Regardless, TFC were defensively positioned wrong during that play. Also, the play that involved CJ in CFMTL's box in the second half should have been a penalty kick IMHO. Even though CJ did have his hand/arm at the defender's waist-side to fight him off, the Defender also/already had both hands on him; one on that arm and one on his other shoulder, causing him to be off-balanced and go down.

That was the worst officiating I’ve seen in a while. We should have had at least a penalty and it was generally a mess.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Waitaminit, wasn't one of those guys standing by the megaphone man also one of the guys who was fighting with the Impact supporters in the upper stands? Where is the security? MLSE is starting to look like a joke operation all the way from the Exec through to Ops.

Maybe... if you are possibly suggesting the stocky individual? I am not sure he was fighting, but could have been there; provoking? Not sure why any TFC "supporters" would have been in/near that visitor section in the first place. Although, TBF, CFMTL ultras were kicked out. Details about that sitch are lacking. Also, from videos on twitter and not necessarily these still shots, similar in stature, think shoe's/sneak's are the same, unique sweat/pant design, possibly wrapped around waist in the fight video. Would have had to change shirt and cap perhaps; also gotten rid of man-satchel and added a scarf? IDK?

https://twitter.com/Fitzysoccer/status/1656141415062155266

https://twitter.com/thirstyco/status/1656140067662970888

[Mr. Inbetween]

That was the worst officiating I’ve seen in a while. We should have had at least a penalty and it was generally a mess.

Thanks, I wasn't sure anyone would agree.

[Mr. Inbetween]

What happened... happened. For all of it, in short, the blame should lie upon a handful of our supporters and a handful of theirs. However, if the highlighted is accurate, is the responsibility for some of what occurred then shared by the TFC/MLSE organization? Some CFMTL camp chatter seems to suggest so...

https://twitter.com/shadymaster08/status/1656093053373894658

[Ultra & Proud]

What happened... happened. For all of it, in short, the blame should lie upon a handful of our supporters and a handful of theirs. However, if the highlighted is accurate, is the responsibility for some of what occurred then shared by the TFC/MLSE organization? Some CFMTL camp chatter seems to suggest so...

https://twitter.com/shadymaster08/status/1656093053373894658

There's always security and cops up there when away fans show. Not this time. Somebody screwed this up. Probably the security company.

[ensco]

No, he adopted it at New York and became a Rangnick/Red Bull disciple. But he also lost a lot of games at Montreal. Doubtless working with Saputo is not easy.

The Germans hadn’t invented Gegenpress yet, so yup, he wasn’t doing that yet. Marsch had an older team in Montreal. Di Vaio, Nesta, Bernier. Other guys in their 30s from Italy, I don’t remember who exactly.

Marsch was a Bradley disciple originally, he was Bob's USMNT assistant. Something to keep an eye on.

[ensco]

The commentators mentioned something about this being TFC’s first loss at home to MTL in the Canadian Championship ever….. with what has to be 5x their payroll that’s very damning.

That is, wildly, incorrect.

Montreal won it here in 2008 and 2019. The 2008 win was a major upset. (I was, sadly, there both times.)

[Hala Hrvatska]

The worst part of this is we haven't even hit rock bottom yet...we'll keep losing.

Such an unispired effort, players going throught the motions...a team completely rebuilt on a fraction of our budget, comes in and humilates us....and yet, some think clueless bradley deserves "more time"?

Enough is enough. Bradley and manning out.

[OgtheDim]

There's always security and cops up there when away fans show. Not this time. Somebody screwed this up. Probably the security company.


That's on TFC/MLSE to ensure the security company is aware of the potential.


My bigger worry is there will likely be reprisal attempts on Saturday - and their security is notoriously shit.

[Smokecell]

Something doesn't seem right about that away supporter video.

Anyone else wondering why a) the Montreal supporter taking the video is totally unscathed, and b) why they are filming and not helping their friends?

[613reppingTFC]

That is, wildly, incorrect.

Montreal won it here in 2008 and 2019. The 2008 win was a major upset. (I was, sadly, there both times.)

Yeah I was going to say I was at the finals when they won here on penalties in 2019 when Oso hit the post. Actually going back to look at it, Altidore (hit crossbar), Mullins (saved down the middle) and Oso (hit the post). Poz was the only one to convert.
so yes the commentators are incorrect.

[613reppingTFC]

Very poor and frustrating officiating! On the free kick before CFMTL's break-out and goal, I believe Brault-Guillard is way way off the line and actually moves before the strike and blocks it; should have been whistled back and re-took. IIUC, BB references this in his post match presser. Regardless, TFC were defensively positioned wrong during that play. .

I didn't catch the post game presser. However when that play happened I was shocked they didn't call it back for a retake of the free kick. I went back at halftime to check and he took about two steps before Fede hit the ball and blocked it. You can even see it in the highlights video, when Fede hits the ball Brault-Guillard was running into Sapong.

[OgtheDim]

Something doesn't seem right about that away supporter video.

Anyone else wondering why a) the Montreal supporter taking the video is totally unscathed, and b) why they are filming and not helping their friends?


Standing near taking video instead of getting pummelled was probably a wiser choice & is usually the suggested approach to these things.

Don't engage - document.

[OgtheDim]

I didn't catch the post game presser. However when that play happened I was shocked they didn't call it back for a retake of the free kick. I went back at halftime to check and he took about two steps before Fede hit the ball and blocked it. You can even see it in the highlights video, when Fede hits the ball Brault-Guillard was running into Sapong.

There were a few things like that.

I know refs gotta experience things to get better but there are Canadian Pro level refs that should have done that game - they are used to the speed & discuss the situations every week with film & directives. CPL level guys may not even see film.