Bob Bradley Deathwatch Thread

[Ultra & Proud]

I think there's been more than enough time to make a fair judgement.

I don't see any answers coming from Bob. Just more of the same again & again. It looks like we're playing to our weaknesses more than anything else.

If Manning wants his job he better make a move and a good one (although he should be shown the door as well).

[Ultra & Proud]

And drop a Brinks truck full of $$$ on Tata's front lawn.

[los sonadores]

I guess it’s a nice fantasy to have when we look so poor (although last game we looked good). But this is MLSE. Next season, maybe. I’ll wait until mid season or later to speculate about what might happen but I think we’re going to have to be very bad all year for Bob to be gone. I also don’t think we are going to be bad all season.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think at some point Manning will know his job is at risk and I wouldn't be surprised if the Italians are becoming restless. Can only let that roll for so long and not everyone will let us play our game like NYCFC did for whatever reason they did.

[los sonadores]

I think at some point Manning will know his job is at risk and I wouldn't be surprised if the Italians are becoming restless. Can only let that roll for so long and not everyone will let us play our game like NYCFC did for whatever reason they did.

It seems MLSE has bigger fish to fry. If the many seasons tickets are sold (as they are), the club valuation is through the roof (as it is) and BB’s rep in the league and with Manning is still great … and Bradley’s only ten matches into the season with his roster (also both true) we’re not in the needle moving position.

I don’t know about the Italians and their views and influence on these matters but personally I can say it’s going to be depressing if they aren’t being incorporated into the play well. You can’t have players with that much talent looking that ineffective.

MAK in the post game press thing said that there have been too many injuries and not enough time with the full roster to develop “real chemistry”. As much as I’d like to say that we should be better and a new coach might do that, I think it’s probably true. BB said there was nothing positive to take from the game. Also true.

[ensco]

I declare this thread title very funny.

As to the substance of it, I think Bob has way more runway than this. He has at least the full year, imho.

[Oldtimer]

It's a bit too early to declare him done.

Losing a match missing several key players doesn't mean they'll pull the plug, especially as TFC has been in a playoff position for some time (may be just under this week depending on how the other teams results went).

With BB you get someone who is inflexible, but when he gets players that fit his style he can win, and he's shown that. I'm personally not a huge fan of his, but he wasn't an obviously bad choice.

[jloome]

It's a bit too early to declare him done.

Losing a match missing several key players doesn't mean they'll pull the plug, especially as TFC has been in a playoff position for some time (may be just under this week depending on how the other teams results went).

With BB you get someone who is inflexible, but when he gets players that fit his style he can win, and he's shown that. I'm personally not a huge fan of his, but he wasn't an obviously bad choice.

No, but I think there's truth in what Jozy said in that article. When he has a mostly young team, and they have sufficient technical ability, he does well.

When he coaches older, more experienced players (us, Chivas, Swanse), his personality possibly isn't the right match.
I realize I'm just theorizing, but they don't look motivated, cohesive. They don't look like a team, much of the time.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Have said it before, will say it again. Fire him (and Manning) right now. He is sucking the life out of this team. If he is not fired, I will not renew. Simply is useless and can not motivate this team, his tactics are horrendous. Highest (or one of the top) payrolls in the league and THIS? is what we get? About to miss the playoffs again. We said last year after that disaster, we better start out of the gate on fire and winning, or else. Well, its or else. Out of the playoffs....look disinterested, unmotivated, and this is at HOME....we saw in Philadelphia how we were overun.

2 wins in 9 months...more dropped points at home...fans losing interest even WITH the Italians...

We are vastly underachieving. At this point anyone could come in do better....the players (apart from his son) I have to assume have tuned him out. The lack of effort on the field screams Bradly has lost this team. My hope is Fede and Berna go to MLSE today, and tell them, Manning and Bradley out, enough of this.

We are wasting Insgines and Berna's contracts with this incompetent Bradly, cut the damn cord, and salvage the season.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

We are vastly underachieving.


This is nothing new, it's more like the norm for this franchise.
Except maybe 3 years in it's existence TFC was always underachieving.

PS: Can we imagine how many fans / followers lost TFC in the whole world in the last 2-4 years?
I mean how many people are still following TFC by watching the games live, from those who have no chance ever to go to a TFC match, because are living far from the Toronto area, or in other countries? Is this team worth to wake up in the middle of the night to watch if you are living in Europe, or in the early morning hours if you are in Asia?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

BB out? Manning out?
Absolutely no chance to happen before the end of this season, because this is MLSE.

TFC will make the playoffs, even if grossly underachieving vs payroll, because of the shit setup of the league.
(Way too many teams making the playoffs - no f.ing reason for more than max half of all the teams to make the playoffs. This setup does not encourage competitiveness, performance at all.).

[Gringo Starr]

It’s a shame Manning wasn’t canned with Armas, we probably could have lured Lagerwey. It hope he doesn’t turned ATL into.the Seattle of the east.

[OgtheDim]

I declare this thread title very funny.

As to the substance of it, I think Bob has way more runway than this. He has at least the full year, imho.

Yeh, pretty much this....with the exception that if we lose twice this week to Club Foot, the discussions become pointed.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeh, pretty much this....with the exception that if we lose twice this week to Club Foot, the discussions become pointed.

This now has gone from nearly unthinkable to quite likely based on current forms. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get skunked or get 1 point out of these two.

[nick.mastro]

It just pisses me off so much that he won’t experiment with the formations. Shows that BB is stubborn and will only stick to his old school ways. Atleast if he was changing things around we can see how the team can play in different formations.

Try Anythjng at this point !
4-4-2
Even a 3-5-2 now that we’ve seen Franklin play.

It’s so frustrating that every game we are expecting the same formation and the same shit on the field

[ag futbol]

I hear the point MLSE is constantly asleep at the wheel and takes way too long to do anything. But, you would think someone would understand our marquee player is north of 30 and we have a roster of high priced older talents who are not going to get any better with age.

To be this mediocre at this stage of the rebuild is a massive red flag.

[SenorDingDong]

It just pisses me off so much that he won’t experiment with the formations. Shows that BB is stubborn and will only stick to his old school ways. Atleast if he was changing things around we can see how the team can play in different formations.

Try Anythjng at this point !
4-4-2
Even a 3-5-2 now that we’ve seen Franklin play.

It’s so frustrating that every game we are expecting the same formation and the same shit on the field

I actually think this is an unfair critique. He has changed the formation a number of times including mid game. Problem is not much else has worked either.

[Ultra & Proud]

I actually think this is an unfair critique. He has changed the formation a number of times including mid game. Problem is not much else has worked either.

No formation will help if we insist on moving the ball up the pitch at a glacial pace. The consistent side passes don't help either. Only time our offense creates real chances is the rare times we attack at pace and that happens a couple times a match.

[Gringo Starr]

The body language was telling yesterday. LI was pleading with Franklin to make overlapping runs, O'neill was throwing up his arms when he couldn't find an outlet, SJ gave O'neill shit for passing back to him instead of going up field.

[Ultra & Proud]

The body language was telling yesterday. LI was pleading with Franklin to make overlapping runs, O'neill was throwing up his arms when he couldn't find an outlet, SJ gave O'neill shit for passing back to him instead of going up field.
Speaks to having no direction and no set identity. Nobody really seems to know what they should be doing at any time and that shows in the slowness, the lack of movement, and the poor passing choices. Also looks like we're under drilled because even a mediocre press throws us into scrambling chaos.

[Mr. Inbetween]

:facepalm:

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1655045660884828160

[Mr. Inbetween]

This is starting to ring rational and reasonable…

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1655039677211058177

[SenorDingDong]

The body language was telling yesterday. LI was pleading with Franklin to make overlapping runs, O'neill was throwing up his arms when he couldn't find an outlet, SJ gave O'neill shit for passing back to him instead of going up field.

Yea he's 19 and probably playing super conservative. There is definitely a confidence issue at this club though. MlSE needs to send in Tony Robbins or something.

[jloome]

Yea he's 19 and probably playing super conservative. There is definitely a confidence issue at this club though. MlSE needs to send in Tony Robbins or something.

I think we have a manager who has a system and style of play that is very difficult to learn. In fact, LA's coach Steve Cherundolo just confirmed this openly, that it requires precision movement and passing.

I think it's difficult because it attempts to be all things. It's free-flowing, but it's possession-based, it's pressing, but it's defensively responsible.

Here's the problem: it's too fucking complicated. With a few explosively singular players who can create their own goals (Vela, Arango, now Bouanga), LA can have games where they're "off" and be rescued by a tough back line and a single moment of brilliance.

Do that a few times, and a team gets confidence. Suddenly, it's winning more than it's losing.

We DO NOT have that player. It's clear neither of the Italians has Giovinco's team beating ability to create their own shit, or they don't have enough other good pieces around them OR the league has gotten too tough for that to work much, anyway (although Hany Mukhtar would like to have a word with skeptics, as would Thiago Almada).

If either of the Italians was producing at the level of top DPs like Mukhtar and Almada, building the rest up around them would be easier. But they aren't.

Couple that with a complex system, and any time we have ANY doubt out there -- HEdges going down, no striker, young midfield -- players become ulta conservative, start passing backwards and sideways, and most importantly LOSE FOCUS AND DETERMINATION.

We keep seeing it. They are too uptight, doing everything the hard way. There's very little quick progressive movement, or looking for long options, or movement between the lines to support rapidly advancing the ball.

When the center is clogged, they aren't finding the wings with quick switches to unbalance a compact defence. When there's space wide or deep, no one moves to it, because they're concerned they're not supporting the short passing triangle nearest them.

The basic shit just isn't being done well. And that speaks to nervousness, tension, and a lack of focus.

That's management. I don't think his methods gel with the guys we've got, simple as that. he's a hard-ass perfectionist who "always tells you exactly how it is" according to his former Chicago player, Mike Magee.

But that isn't working here. We need someone who can build confidence within the team, a manager who is solid and disciplined but also liked and respected by his players -- basically we need Wilfried Nancy, or Tata, or someone of that ilk. Hell, given how good they look right now, I'd take Vanni Sartini in a heart-beat.

When I was working at a job practicum as an 18-year-old student, 35 years ago, I had to cover local sports in Nova Scotia for a while.

My editor, a steroid-shooting ex-jock local bro, saw me disconsolate after forgetting to load film into my camera for an important game and not having art. "Toughen up, bro, don't be a little bitch," he said. "Don't fuck up next time."

Believe it or not, that advice did fuck all to help. I sort of feel like he's a slightly more erudite version of a 1980s-90s American jock/coach. Be stoic, be tough, fight harder than everyone else, just win, baby.

But... this isn't the 90s. Look at top football managers today and tell me how many have the locker room's admiration. I'd say it's pretty much all of them.

[los sonadores]

This is starting to ring rational and reasonable…

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1655039677211058177

To me, lots of numerical repetition doesn’t make for reason here. First of all, who is asking for 2 more years?

I think last year was a bit of a travesty… however, tearing everything down and starting again was the approach taken. Bradley has had 11 games with his roster and a few too many injuries. Frankly, I’d rather see if it will come together than begin again with someone new who will not necessarily make it work and then will need to makes changes next season, etc., etc.

All of those managers Bailey has listed were mediocre to without talent and had almost nothing of a career. They were assistants at best with the exception of Preki who was a good defensive coach but no more… and hence also best as an assistant.

Actually, I think the rational take here is that we’re jonesing for a change because we had all of those names in charge who were all shit to begin with. What a dreadful list! We really should not have been subjected to that except that “the worst team in the world” is indeed bad.

I’m not sure we get more out of this team by damning them now.

[Richard]

I think a more appreciate thread should be "Manning Deathwatch Thread". I am not convinced he knows who to run and MLS franchise in 2023.

Having said that, if we're not in a playoff spot by end of June, or early July, Bob should get the sack, along with Manning.

This team is underperforming.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think a more appreciate thread should be "Manning Deathwatch Thread". I am not convinced he knows who to run and MLS franchise in 2023.

I was going to add him in too but I think as long as money keeps coming in, MLSE will keep him.

The only hope is for Manning to feel his seat becoming real hot so he hands the whole footballing operations to a person who can do the job and that has done it before in the recent era of MLS. But since he would be picking that person it would be another USMNT retread like Berhalter or worse, Kreis.

[ag futbol]

To me, lots of numerical repetition doesn’t make for reason here. First of all, who is asking for 2 more years?

I think last year was a bit of a travesty… however, tearing everything down and starting again was the approach taken. Bradley has had 11 games with his roster and a few too many injuries. Frankly, I’d rather see if it will come together than begin again with someone new who will not necessarily make it work and then will need to makes changes next season, etc., etc.

All of those managers Bailey has listed were mediocre to without talent and had almost nothing of a career. They were assistants at best with the exception of Preki who was a good defensive coach but no more… and hence also best as an assistant.

Actually, I think the rational take here is that we’re jonesing for a change because we had all of those names in charge who were all shit to begin with. What a dreadful list! We really should not have been subjected to that except that “the worst team in the world” is indeed bad.

I’m not sure we get more out of this team by damning them now.
To me, throwing away last year just raised my expectations of 2023. It felt excessively wasteful but was allegedly done to accelerate our rebuild.

As for the rebuild itself, it really feels like 1) over-zealously throwing assets in the garbage because guys didn’t fit Bradley’s system. Then finding out Bradley’s system isn’t a value add to begin with 2) short term fixes that really feel more like an attempt to try and win now rather than build for the future.

Overall, it all feels so ineffective that we’d basically be insulting Bob and ourselves not to fire him.

[los sonadores]

To me, throwing away last year just raised my expectations of 2023. It felt excessively wasteful but was allegedly done to accelerate our rebuild.

As for the rebuild itself, it really feels like 1) over-zealously throwing assets in the garbage because guys didn’t fit Bradley’s system. Then finding out Bradley’s system isn’t a value add to begin with 2) short term fixes that really feel more like an attempt to try and win now rather than build for the future.

Overall, it all feels so ineffective that we’d basically be insulting Bob and ourselves not to fire him.

I suppose I’d rather see if Bradley can sort it out given more time instead of a coaching change now. (Of course this is a highly speculative exercise because in reality he’s going nowhere.) And don’t forget that a change of coach means a change of sporting director unless we want Bill Manning in that role. So, a long search for one perfect person or for two people that approve of each other and can work together… meanwhile the team is possibly dead in the water.

Very few teams in MLS have DPs and key players out and succeed. Even when they’re as balanced as can be, they’re unbalanced. Arena goes from record points to the basement, and now back again in 3 seasons because of what in most leagues would be not major, not insurmountable sales. So, for now, I’ll go with MAKs assessment that they have no real chemistry because they haven’t had the full roster together long enough.

If we look at the 2nd half last night: Insigne, 2nd full game; Dio, still no full games; Sapong, just arrived. Servania, arrived into the season after not playing much; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season. Hedges and Petretta disappearing in the warm up. Petretta we replaced with a rookie well enough but Hedges, no surprise there. I think there is a legit case here.

It’s also plausible that, as JLoome and others have speculated, the system is too complicated and rigid and doesn’t enough suit our players. But that’s not certain yet and how long does it take our upper management to make the correct choices and right the ship? Probably, a relatively long time. I think I’d much rather see what Bob does this season.

As for Tata, I remember well that he left the league saying that it was too much work at his age and he wanted a quieter Nats gig. Doesn’t sound to me like TFC is a good fit. Also, even if he did come he’s no magic bullet. He has his preferences which would take time to sort out, including the roster. And how long would he stay in cold Toronto with Manning and Co. to work with? Probably not long.

[SenorDingDong]

I suppose I’d rather see if Bradley can sort it out given more time instead of a coaching change now. (Of course this is a highly speculative exercise because in reality he’s going nowhere.) And don’t forget that a change of coach means a change of sporting director unless we want Bill Manning in that role. So, a long search for one perfect person or for two people that approve of each other and can work together… meanwhile the team is possibly dead in the water.

Very few teams in MLS have DPs and key players out and succeed. Even when they’re as balanced as can be, they’re unbalanced. Arena goes from record points to the basement, and now back again in 3 seasons because of what in most leagues would be not major, not insurmountable sales. So, for now, I’ll go with MAKs assessment that they have no real chemistry because they haven’t had the full roster together long enough.

If we look at the 2nd half last night: Insigne, 2nd full game; Dio, still no full games; Sapong, just arrived. Servania, arrived into the season after not playing much; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season. Hedges and Petretta disappearing in the warm up. Petretta we replaced with a rookie well enough but Hedges, no surprise there. I think there is a legit case here.

It’s also plausible that, as JLoome and others have speculated, the system is too complicated and rigid and doesn’t enough suit our players. But that’s not certain yet and how long does it take our upper management to make the correct choices and right the ship? Probably, a relatively long time. I think I’d much rather see what Bob does this season.

As for Tata, I remember well that he left the league saying that it was too much work at his age and he wanted a quieter Nats gig. Doesn’t sound to me like TFC is a good fit. Also, even if he did come he’s no magic bullet. He has his preferences which would take time to sort out, including the roster. And how long would he stay in cold Toronto with Manning and Co. to work with? Probably not long.


This is a solid assessment. The injury piece can't be overlooked.

We played the first 9 games without Insigne or any #9. Basically it was Berna up front and then musical chairs for who was next to him.

Midfield has been total musical chairs aside from Kaye. I actually thought MB and Kaye had some chemistry going then that got canned.

Defense has been our most consistent and not surprisingly is really our only bright spot this season. Even then we've now had bad luck with Hedges and Petretta going down.

I look forward to seeing who gets injured in warm up on Tuesday...

[Mr. Inbetween]

…I look forward to seeing who gets injured in warm up on Tuesday...

Funny :)… but not funny :(!

[Ultra & Proud]

So we're in 13th place after 1/3 of the schedule played.

Pretty much exactly the same as last season with a roster of all kids and not much else.

[jloome]

A rather astute take from Doyle on mlssoccer.com:

Toronto are second in total touches, but are just 24th in non-penalty xG and 25th in touches in the opponent’s box.

They get a lot of the ball, but they don’t really seem to know what to do with it. Given the names on the roster, that’s very strange.

[los sonadores]

A rather astute take from Doyle on mlssoccer.com:

Toronto are second in total touches, but are just 24th in non-penalty xG and 25th in touches in the opponent’s box.

They get a lot of the ball, but they don’t really seem to know what to do with it. Given the names on the roster, that’s very strange.


Yes and no. Those names that know what to do with the ball haven’t played together much. I’d be surprised come summer, let’s say, if they aren’t quite a bit more fluid and knowledgeable about other.

I think he’s missing something there (for example, lack of touches in the box have accrued over most of the season without a proper striker.)

Actually, this was more accurate about the game itself:

“If a Bruce Arena team gets a gift like that 20 minutes into a road game, you know exactly what the next 70 minutes are like: Low block, absorb, and selectively send runners forward (which is how they got their second goal, which came in the 62nd minute). The reality of the game state dictated how this one would play out more than any tactical adjustments from either Arena or his counterpart in the other dugout, Bob Bradley.”

[jloome]

Yes and no. Those names that know what to do with the ball haven’t played together much. I’d be surprised come summer, let’s say, if they aren’t quite a bit more fluid and knowledgeable about other.

I think he’s missing something there (for example, lack of touches in the box have accrued over most of the season without a proper striker.)

Actually, this was more accurate about the game itself:

“If a Bruce Arena team gets a gift like that 20 minutes into a road game, you know exactly what the next 70 minutes are like: Low block, absorb, and selectively send runners forward (which is how they got their second goal, which came in the 62nd minute). The reality of the game state dictated how this one would play out more than any tactical adjustments from either Arena or his counterpart in the other dugout, Bob Bradley.”

I cannot agree with this. These guys have been training together for nearly a year and have two dozen games in that time when everyone has been healthy.

Multiple other managers in this league have injury issues and yet have managed to produce coherent, productive offenses by now.

[los sonadores]

I cannot agree with this. These guys have been training together for nearly a year and have two dozen games in that time when everyone has been healthy.

Multiple other managers in this league have injury issues and yet have managed to produce coherent, productive offenses by now.

If we look at the 2nd half last night, games played this season: Insigne, his second full game; Dio, arrived this season, one full game; Sapong, arrived last week, two full games, Servania, arrived into the season well after training camp; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season.

I think there is a legit case here.

[jloome]

If we look at the 2nd half last night, games played this season: Insigne, his second full game; Dio, arrived this season, one full game; Sapong, arrived last week, two full games, Servania, arrived into the season well after training camp; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season.

I think there is a legit case here.

Ah, maybe somewhat. We're still talking two full months of training together now and they look barely coherent. Montreal in its last two games has had a more cohesive performance.

If they were just a little off in timing, I'd buy that it's all rustiness. But they are often passing at an above 80% rate; they just have no idea what to do with the ball in the offensive end.

[Canary10]

Ah, maybe somewhat. We're still talking two full months of training together now and they look barely coherent. Montreal in its last two games has had a more cohesive performance.

If they were just a little off in timing, I'd buy that it's all rustiness. But they are often passing at an above 80% rate; they just have no idea what to do with the ball in the offensive end.

They look absolutely clueless going forward. There doesn't look to be anything drilled into them, everything looks completely improvised. So much of our attack goes up the right side as well, while our best player is on the left. Need to swing the ball out to the other side more often. I might help with Bradley back, but it looks just awful right now. Am I crazy, or did Insigne play DM for about a 5 minute spell in the second half Saturday? Sometimes doesn't even seem like they know the position they're playing. Maybe it's Total Football now?

[Gringo Starr]

If we look at the 2nd half last night, games played this season: Insigne, his second full game; Dio, arrived this season, one full game; Sapong, arrived last week, two full games, Servania, arrived into the season well after training camp; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season.

I think there is a legit case here.

St Louis is an expansion team this year and are top of the west

[Mr. Inbetween]

St Louis is an expansion team this year and are top of the west

TBF, didn’t STLCITY get a jump start/warm up by being/playing together in MLS NEXT PRO for a season at least before graduating to/launching in MLS?

[Graeme]

St Louis is an expansion team this year and are top of the west

They played together last year as St Louis SC 2, including both DPs.

[Super]

To be fair it's going to be difficult for any coach to win with this team without quality strikers. This league is all about having quality strikers, and we opted for quality wingers instead and then went through a whole series of subpar strikers. This team will struggle all year, regardless of coach. Might as well keep Bradley around for the year. But Manning definitely needs to go.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Of note, Priso, McNaughton and Shaffleburgh all started for their teams in wins the other day. Meanwhile, clueless Bradley who dumped them has won 2 games in all of 9 months...and we are in 23rd place in ppg right now. On the highest payroll in the league. Bradley doing less with more yet again 45 games into this disaster of his project.

Get rid of him and Manning. Right now. Enough of this. Stop the rot and lets salvage the season. And win.

[FootBallAZ]

To be fair it's going to be difficult for any coach to win with this team without quality strikers. This league is all about having quality strikers, and we opted for quality wingers instead and then went through a whole series of subpar strikers. This team will struggle all year, regardless of coach. Might as well keep Bradley around for the year. But Manning definitely needs to go.


i would agree- but BB is in charge of player acquisitions - no striker is on him- TFC had JJ this season too.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yes and no. Those names that know what to do with the ball haven’t played together much. I’d be surprised come summer, let’s say, if they aren’t quite a bit more fluid and knowledgeable about other.

I think he’s missing something there (for example, lack of touches in the box have accrued over most of the season without a proper striker.)



Playing together is an excuse that has worn itself out with our team. Every team has injuries and if we're waiting until we don't then the excuse will live forever because our physio staff is shit. In 2017 we had multiple injuries and call ups and our subs came in and played good for a stretch. I remember we had a team of nobodies fight hard in Colorado some years back who never played at all much less together. That's the kind of stuff MB complained about in 2015 after we went down meekly to Montreal in the playoff as excuses and needing "more men" on the field to get the job done. If we need more matches to get the team to manage chances on goal or touches in the box then all that says is that our training is garbage. Clearly nobody is prepared and by saying they need more time game together is saying exactly that. Even Bob mentioning the Rosted error and how Bruce would adapt is an excuse. Mistakes happen and they happen enough in MLS. One error shouldn't dictate a match unless you really have no plan B and low blocks happen. That's something you need to figure out how to deal with or else be trash and be sacked.

As for the touches in the box, we should have had more with any of our 9's in there. The quality of that striker doesn't effect the amount of or ability to make chances happen by moving the ball quickly and getting balls in the box. Even Dwyer during our Curtis debacle was getting touches in the box and he was garbage. The quality of that 9 will obviously effect the outcome because a crappy one will blow their chances and ruin great opportunities but presently we have about 2 or 3 legit goal scoring chances on a good day and pretty much none on a bad one.

All this is down to training, tactics, and confidence. I think we're pretty bad on all three of these.

[Ultra & Proud]

To be fair it's going to be difficult for any coach to win with this team without quality strikers. This league is all about having quality strikers, and we opted for quality wingers instead and then went through a whole series of subpar strikers. This team will struggle all year, regardless of coach. Might as well keep Bradley around for the year. But Manning definitely needs to go.
Tell that to Nashville. They've never had one.

[Ultra & Proud]

Red Bulls & Fire dumped their managers today so it seems they decided that this was enough time to see some results and they're the two teams right behind us in the basement of the east. And with way worse and far cheaper rosters I would add.

[Canary10]

Needs to be a good alternative lined up and ready to jump in if this is the move. I don't want to see a Frank Lampard situation here.

Or in the MLS context - Frank Klopas.

[Mr. Inbetween]

i would agree- but BB is in charge of player acquisitions - no striker is on him- TFC had JJ this season too.

I keep thinking about this assertion. I will concede, BM, as TFC President, naturally has input and influence. I would even presume, that for non-footballing reasons, that is, marketing, he may even over-ride or demand a certain consideration for selection. I also suspect, as some others may, that at times BM transaction fingerprints are also on scene. Nevertheless, IMHO, this entire squad, what is being finally fielded match day, is essentially from BB’s hand/of his making; in almost entirety. That is, with the possible sole exception of Insigne- timing- and of who’s acquisition I would still gladly debate and believe BB was well aware of, encouraged by and had a final say in.

[Ultra & Proud]

Needs to be a good alternative lined up and ready to jump in if this is the move. I don't want to see a Frank Lampard situation here.

Or in the MLS context - Frank Klopas.

A good GM/President would have been looking at alternatives a few weeks ago but we have Manning so....

And there aren't a lot of good ones around and when good jobs start becoming available (as in not these two) then the field will shrink and we will have our Klopas but his name will be Gregg.

[Ultra & Proud]

I keep thinking about this assertion. I will concede, BM, as TFC President, naturally has input and influence. I would even presume, that for non-footballing reasons, that is, marketing, he may even over-ride or demand a certain consideration for selection. I also suspect, as some others may, that at times BM transaction fingerprints are also on scene.

They said before during one of their press conferences that Bob is the guy doing player acquisitions and that Manning is involved at the DP level only. I figure that's the case since he would like to be the guy flying to Italy for fancy dinners and he probably doesn't have time to scour weird leagues for players. He would just roll out his USMNT rolodex and fire away.

[Canary10]

A good GM/President would have been looking at alternatives a few weeks ago but we have Manning so....

And there aren't a lot of good ones around and when good jobs start becoming available (as in not these two) then the field will shrink and we will have our Klopas but his name will be Gregg.

This my fear.

Yes, looks like Vanney may be available shortly.

[Ultra & Proud]

This my fear.

Yes, looks like Vanney may be available shortly.
Sadly since this would be the easiest and laziest move it's very possible. It could also mean Bob moves upstairs and Vanney manages. Vanney's fastly rising career trajectory is gone now. Nobody is handing him the keys to anything now.

*And the marketing aspect would probably appeal to Manning. You could do a big press conference for this and start showing 2017 footage again.

[ensco]

Sadly since this would be the easiest and laziest move it's very possible. It could also mean Bob moves upstairs and Vanney manages. Vanney's fastly rising career trajectory is gone now. Nobody is handing him the keys to anything now.

*And the marketing aspect would probably appeal to Manning. You could do a big press conference for this and start showing 2017 footage again.

You have nailed it. I didn’t think of this, but it would tick all the boxes.

This is what they will do in the summer.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, I'd hold fire on this until after November for a good reason


Curtin has still not signed a contract extension with Philly - his ends after 2023.


Until he does, every change during this season is going to be interim.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeh, I'd hold fire on this until after November for a good reason


Curtin has still not signed a contract extension with Philly - his ends after 2023.


Until he does, every change during this season is going to be interim.
I would say yes but Curtain has been proven to be a system guy that has a great academy to feed the first team and a team full of good but not great players who he can get to play as a team.

He hasn't worked with a lot of higher priced, higher ego'ed players like he would have to deal with here. For sure he is better than Bob. No question there but I am not sure we would be the best option. Maybe if he came in last year instead of Bob when we tore it all down so he could do his thing form the ground up but now we're stuck in "win now" mode for a few more years.

[FootBallAZ]

two teams behind TFC seem more ambitious then TFC sitting at 12 points with teams ahead and a game on hand.

[jloome]

I would say yes but Curtain has been proven to be a system guy that has a great academy to feed the first team and a team full of good but not great players who he can get to play as a team.

He hasn't worked with a lot of higher priced, higher ego'ed players like he would have to deal with here. For sure he is better than Bob. No question there but I am not sure we would be the best option. Maybe if he came in last year instead of Bob when we tore it all down so he could do his thing form the ground up but now we're stuck in "win now" mode for a few more years.

Exactly.

Again, Jim Curtin and Jesse Marsch are both Bob disciples, they literally learned how to coach from the guy. They both have extremely dedicated, inflexible systems based largely on pressing. It took Curtin years to turn Philly into a consistent winner because it took that long to get him exactly the roster AND feeder system dedicated to his form of high press.

And I hate to be a stickler for facts, but he's never won anything other than the eastern division. Like Bob since Chicago in '96, he's gotten close several times, but he never wins the big game.

At Leeds, Marsch was the opposite. He coudl ONLY win the big game, because only confident self-possessed teams refused to change their approach, and were unhinged by a high gegenpress all the time. Everyone else low blocked it out of existence.

In fact, the predilection of almost every team to press high in this league is why we're looking at a record number of scoreless ties this year so far. None of them know how to break down a low block o nce they have the ball. Winning it in the offensive end is pretty useless if you can't break down a defence..... witness us.

And the notion of managing a team to work with all zones of the pitch as an advantage -- by hanging back to counter, for example, or switching to unbalance a block of movement, seems lost on a lot of MLS teams.

It's why they'd still get killed by Premier League and Championship teams; I watch A LOT of them now on Fubo, and I'm telling you, the skill and athleticism levels are no longer that disparate.

What is really missing here is raw basics, which seem to be taught terribly in North America (disciplined reproduction of basic technique in short passing, trapping and movement) and tactical discipline. Without the latter, how are players supposed to develop the skill to read and breakdown defenses and opportunities in an open system like Bob's?

Seba was basically Brazilian in his approach to football, and small/fast enough for it to defeat double-teams. He was an anomaly. Insigne and Bernardeschi are not built for MLS tactics, which are typically a blend o fSouth American style 'isolate and support', tendency-based management and German high-pressing, high-intensity defense.

That's what Bob, Jesse et al all teach (and now Marsch's former assistant in St. Louis): no movement rigidity, but instead an understanding of how to take advantage of "high reward" situations, in essence a blend of total football and gegenpress.

And it's brutal. It only works if the team is technically proficient and quicker than their opponents, because it's just too reliant on individual choice and error-free execution. As soon as teams realize giving up control of the ball to a press stifles them, and that their opportunities are all removed by removing last-third giveaways, it becomes an easy tactic to set up against, using a switching counter attack, where the ball is immediately funneled in an outlet, ala a basketball fast break, to the most open, forward wide man on the wings.

That player then switches field again quickly to the other side, in the middle third, as the pressing team tries to adjust to defending its opposite. Boom, unlocked narrow block. As soon as Premier League managers realized how to do that to Leeds, Marsch's goose was cooked. It's also why St. Louis is now losing games.

It's also what both Atlanta and Philly did to us. Headman the fastest midfielder in space, advance the ball before we can get back, overload the defense. The way we play offensively, we don't have to press all the time. We set up all of our offensive movement as if we're going to camp in their end. So they just low block us. There's very little deliberate danger caused by transitional play. So the same tactic that defeats gegenpress defeats Bob ball.

Even worse, when teams PRESS US, we can't break it. We're too slow to find the open man in transition, and too slow to be supporting that man once he's converged on by defenders.

Do we really want go through this all again for another five years so Jim Curtin can build a team that fits a singular tactical approach? Hell no.

The reason people asking for someone like Tata (aside from one of the winningest records in the history of world football) is that he is both tactically flexible and loved by his players.

Neither of those descriptions seems to match Bradley, or Curtin, or Marsch. They can motivate, but that's not the same thing. At Leeds, the players talked after Marsch left about loving his passion but him wanting them to do more than they could learn and execute. It sounded quite familiar.

What we really need is either a dead cert like Tata or the next Wilfried Nancy.

[Ultra & Proud]

Since we're stuck with only ever being able to hire American or USMNT managers (that's the Manning rules) we probably would have this experienced list to choose from in summer:

- Berhalter
- Marsch
- Porter
- Vanney
- Vermes

Ooooof

[OgtheDim]

I'd consider Hendrickson - Fire wasn't his fault.

[jloome]

I'd consider Hendrickson - Fire wasn't his fault.

Bit of a crapshoot, like Fraser. Don't really know how he'll adapt to having money. Both are better than the teams they've had to work with, by reputation.

I think we need an experienced manager who is a player's manager, not a hardass, and who is tactically adaptable to the tools at hand.

I think that even with the cap and player machinations -- thanks to fair play reg, every team has weird shit to deal with in Europe too now, just much less -- the quality in the league is now such that a non-MLS manager, unfamiliar with the league, can do well here. Yes, it would really help to have a sporting director like Bez.

But I'd take almost any manager at a second or third-tier league now -- Europe, Japan, Africa, I don't give a shit where they come from -- if they consistently win, can command the locker room's pride and fight, and if they can adapt tactically instead of trying to fit pieces to a singular preferred system, even one that is 'total' movement flexible.

[jloome]

Since we're stuck with only ever being able to hire American or USMNT managers (that's the Manning rules) we probably would have this experienced list to choose from in summer:

- Berhalter
- Marsch
- Porter
- Vanney
- Vermes

Ooooof

Fucking disastrous, any one of them.

Marsch would motivate them, but we do not have the quickness or intensity for Gegenpress; plus it's just ugly football to watch, even when working.
The rest are just utterly roster dependent. They're not moulding any group into more than it already is.

Let's be honest, after watching Greg at LA for a few years, where he has more distractions and more personality disorders to deal with than even here, it's clear he's a pretty average manager. Without Seba, Michael and Jozy all being well above the league standard in 2017, I highly doubt we're anywhere near that treble.

[OgtheDim]

Let's be honest, after watching Greg at LA for a few years, where he has more distractions and more personality disorders to deal with than even here, it's clear he's a pretty average manager. Without Seba, Michael and Jozy all being well above the league standard in 2017, I highly doubt we're anywhere near that treble.


Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

[FootBallAZ]

the biggest take away from me watching the game in stadium was- that the two DP's def do not seem interested in pressing or being the highest up to press- a lot of times it was MAK- this alone should be like a sign to switch it up.

4-3-3 aint doing no favors-isolating the DP's and then having no one run to them or give them outlet passes is crazy- this is basic fundamentals taught at such an early age.

[TheGoodson]

Fire everyone… I’m done. After the crap I had to watch this past week no one can’t justify the garbage displays week in and week out. It’s not getting better even with players coming back from injuries. The substitutes are pathetic and are not difference makers

there is max 5 players from the starting 11 I would keep and the majority is the back line. I hope the Italians request to leave as Insinge will never live up to his contract as he’s not an individually brilliant and was always a complimentary player on those Napoli teams. Bernadeschi is a luxury player on this shit team and not someone who can be the main guy and build your squad around

clear it out and give the new sporting director and coach a blank slate. Realistically in this league you don’t need multiple seasons to rebuild especially when TFC has the money that it has. TFC just needs people who know what they are doing and have an actual plan unlike what we witnessed the past 3 transfer windows

[jloome]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

Yeah, good point. I think Hedges is once again displaying the fact that you can't win in this league without a Hedges/Moor/Zimmerman solid line leader, a guy who is only ever beaten by the absolute best players.

Klein... sure. I dunno. He's been suspended since last year, so Greg is technically doing both jobs. They have a lot of good pieces, but look at the defensive pieces he brought in. Any team starting Chris Mavinga at this point almost deserves what it gets. He has a big heart, but let's be honest, his last two seasons with us were total bombscares and he does seem to get injured whenever he's playing reallly badly.

I think Klein made it much harder on him than it had to be by mismanaging assets. But they still have a lot of very solid players, and they don't have our speed issues. Vanney just trusts the wrong guys.

EDIT: Anyone else wish we'd signed Ricky Puig? I'm sure being in demand from Barca he wouldn't have gone anywhere but LA, but you never know.

[jloome]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

It's possible Bob refuses to use our analytics guy's analytics. He talked at length in one of his pressers about how translating all that data to the pitch rarely works. He did not sound like a fan.

There are multiple teams in MLS without an analytics guy. Someone did a piece on it not long ago, surprised by how many hadn't taken it up yet. TFC were one of the first, apparently. I mean, it's imperceptible from performance, let's be honest.

[JoesphNdo]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

And Vasquez, our MVP that season

I think the general takeaway from me on Vanney at TFC overall was pretty much 'shot about par'. Definitely wasn't bad by any means,but I don't see it as a spectacular performance with the sheer level and depth of talent we had available and I definitely wouldn't be clamouring to get him back in a hurry

I do agree with the sentiment that if we wanted rid of Bob, which remains to be seen, it'd be the most on brand move of all time for Bill "Remember 2017!?" Manning to bring Vanney in and move Bob upstairs. It could also work with what I take as given is the plan which was 'Bob in for a bit, move upstairs then Michael in as manager' to have Vanney in in the short term

But ultimately I think they'll do anything they can to keep Bob in charge until Michael hangs up his boots. I think it'd be an absolute disaster, but I think it's what is planned

[Ultra & Proud]

But ultimately I think they'll do anything they can to keep Bob in charge until Michael hangs up his boots. I think it'd be an absolute disaster, but I think it's what is planned

I would rather they wait for Vasquez to get his coaching badges (if he wanted to get into managing).

[OgtheDim]

...

Klein... sure. I dunno. He's been suspended since last year, so Greg is technically doing both jobs. .


He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. Its why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

[jloome]

He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. Its why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

Yeah, they're getting hammered in the box. I don't think he'll do it, though. He loves the middle of the park. It's why he has Ricky Puig as an eight instead of a 10, which is what he clearly is. He should be doing Almada shit but spends half his time defending. He's quite good at it, though, just wasted.

[FootBallAZ]

I would rather they wait for Vasquez to get his coaching badges (if he wanted to get into managing).


why wait- TFC has hired- a coach previously with no coaching badges at all.

[los sonadores]

He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

Vanney at LAG is a mystery. Here he was the most flexible manager in the league. Not without his faults but it’s nonsense that he didn’t have anything to do with our treble and almost Concacaf win. The difference between what he was doing here and our previous managers was considerable. If he’s a mediocre manager then it’s certain we’ve never had a good one, haha.

It is true that LAG despite the wealth, rep and willingness of players to come there was quickly eclipsed by LAFC (that would include Bob Bradley) simply because the later is a properly professional set up. LAG not only has no analytics but they didn’t even have a scouting dept when Vanney arrived. MLS 1.0, as they say.

Tata is a mercenary. He hasn’t stayed longer than two seasons at any club team. His average is closer to one season.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I'm still in the wait until after summer transfer window to see camp, but I must say that patience is kinda wearing thin lol. The Logic there is that is Bob will have had 2 summer windows, and 2 winter windows to get all the fundemental/foundational pieces needed to play his system which I think is more than a fair amount of time to know his player roster and their capabilitiles, the system and its complexity, and whether the players can fit into that system- and then get us the necessary players to make it work if it isn't (or adapt to the players he's been dealt).

I think jloomes post quoting doyle tho is a numerical representation of what i'm seeing or have been seeing, and it's definitely been my frustrations watching the games even with both DPs back. Every team should have an attacking identity going forward; even the best, most hyper fluid teams have familiar plays/runs/movements, where the manager has started with at least that foundation so that when the team isn't clicking - they can resort to familiary. I'm not truly seeing any of these basic movements or plays... regardless of who the striker has been up front. Maybe i've missassessed Bob's ideas here (how much is Bob an X's and O's chalk talk type of guy anyways?) but feels like in lieu of having that balance between fluidity and preset movements... he wants the attack to be spontanous and generated off a single attacking idea in that moment- and he's hoping the team as a whole rally off that single idea that translates into a goal. Basically - give it to the italians (or richie) to develop the idea, and everyone else flow around them in the moment. Given this is MLS i'm not sure why he wouldn't go for more basic system upfront; preset channel running for strikers, wingers...etc. so that it builds familiarity, then have them express outside the box/creative ideas afterwards. There's a reason why Josef Martinez in Atlanta banged in as many goals as he did, BWP in Redbulls... etc. Sometimes basic movements and chemistry/familiarity in a league like this simply trump overly complex systems built around fluidity and creativity.

Anyways... just how I'm seeing it. If his entire idea is to feed the balls out wide to the italians and hope they can create that thread of an opportunity (or richie)... I think he's gonna find himself in a tough spot waiting for chemistry to never form while opposing teams just box out insigne and berna, and score off our mistakes caused by pressing that excess fluidity when were all out of shape. I'm not too confident that will bring more wins our way lol.

[jloome]

Tata is a mercenary. He hasn’t stayed longer than two seasons at any club team. His average is closer to one season.

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim.

I'd take two years of Tata any day.

[jloome]

I'm still in the wait until after summer transfer window to see camp, but I must say that patience is kinda wearing thin lol. The Logic there is that is Bob will have had 2 summer windows, and 2 winter windows to get all the fundemental/foundational pieces needed to play his system which I think is more than a fair amount of time to know his player roster and their capabilitiles, the system and its complexity, and whether the players can fit into that system- and then get us the necessary players to make it work if it isn't (or adapt to the players he's been dealt).

I think jloomes post quoting doyle tho is a numerical representation of what i'm seeing or have been seeing, and it's definitely been my frustrations watching the games even with both DPs back. Every team should have an attacking identity going forward; even the best, most hyper fluid teams have familiar plays/runs/movements, where the manager has started with at least that foundation so that when the team isn't clicking - they can resort to familiary. I'm not truly seeing any of these basic movements or plays... regardless of who the striker has been up front. Maybe i've missassessed Bob's ideas here (how much is Bob an X's and O's chalk talk type of guy anyways?) but feels like in lieu of having that balance between fluidity and preset movements... he wants the attack to be spontanous and generated off a single attacking idea in that moment- and he's hoping the team as a whole rally off that single idea that translates into a goal. Basically - give it to the italians (or richie) to develop the idea, and everyone else flow around them in the moment. Given this is MLS i'm not sure why he wouldn't go for more basic system upfront; preset channel running for strikers, wingers...etc. so that it builds familiarity, then have them express outside the box/creative ideas afterwards. There's a reason why Josef Martinez in Atlanta banged in as many goals as he did, BWP in Redbulls... etc. Sometimes basic movements and chemistry/familiarity in a league like this simply trump overly complex systems built around fluidity and creativity.

Anyways... just how I'm seeing it. If his entire idea is to feed the balls out wide to the italians and hope they can create that thread of an opportunity (or richie)... I think he's gonna find himself in a tough spot waiting for chemistry to never form while opposing teams just box out insigne and berna, and score off our mistakes caused by pressing that excess fluidity when were all out of shape. I'm not too confident that will bring more wins our way lol.

I think that's a pretty astute take. I'm not saying they don't have those familiar fallback set patterns, but it sure seems hard to see them. The only one that they've used repeatedly is the overlap with richie and a central player drawing the defense while the striker and trailer try to finish RIchie's cross.

But there's none of that in the final third build-up. I think you've described what they seem to be trying admirably. It seems high reward it's clicking, like at LAFC, but it's wedded to the right players and we clearly don't have them. Just not quick enough.

[Mr. Inbetween]

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim. I'd take two years of Tata any day.

I would take two years of Tata too; a few other individuals as well. Just would like to qualify your assertion… a ‘handful’ of misters, of such calibre… perhaps with MLS experience or realistic candidates? Certainly! And with a healthy number of games under their belt. I even agree that ‘Tata’s’ are a rarity. However, internationally; world wide? I think there are ‘several handfuls’ of such coaches. IIUC, there are at least a couple of handfuls of such managers still active within the last five years with over a thousand matches. With a couple more handfuls under that match threshold with an above 50% winning average.

[los sonadores]

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim.

I'd take two years of Tata any day.

I’d be surprised if he would come but if he did, two years might be unlikely. He’s stayed two years at a club team once - at Atlanta, presumably because they were building from scratch. Otherwise, excluding National Team gigs (which are necessarily longer) his average is 13 months per club.

[MikeForbes]

Bob is here until the season ends. Surprised no one has mentioned a certain Italian manager yet though who could be down for a big pay day and roster control. Some guy named Conte.

[portu]

You fire Bob the moment you’ve locked down a PERMANENT head coach. Rest of the front office goes quietly in the winter.

The roster is what it is for the rest of the season (Laryea) aside, let the FO focus on selling tickets or whatever until end of the season.

[los sonadores]

Since we're stuck with only ever being able to hire American or USMNT managers (that's the Manning rules) we probably would have this experienced list to choose from in summer:

- Berhalter
- Marsch
- Porter
- Vanney
- Vermes

Ooooof

I think the American thing is likely (another reason Tata is unlikely). Vanney back is too much absurdity and the others, if they came, I’d probably give up watching, that’s all just too depressing.

My question to you is: if these are the likely options, why are you calling for Bradley’s head now?

[Mr. Inbetween]

Bob is here until the season ends. Surprised no one has mentioned a certain Italian manager yet though who could be down for a big pay day and roster control. Some guy named Conte.

Certainly an Italian manager with a solid winning percentage. Though Lollo has had issues with Conte in the past; water now under the bridge. TBH, I do not think ‘a Conte’ is attainable; and if you’re aiming there, then it’s ‘an Ancelotti’ for me. Unfortunately ‘a Cannavaro’ would be more likely; realistic.

[jloome]

Certainly an Italian manager with a solid winning percentage. Though Lollo has had issues with Conte in the past; water now under the bridge. TBH, I do not think ‘a Conte’ is attainable; and if you’re aiming there, then it’s ‘an Ancelotti’ for me. Unfortunately ‘a Cannavaro’ would be more likely; realistic.

Patrick Viera was good at NYC and a lot of pundits seem to think got an early exit at Palace.

[ronzilla]

It's a new team. It's still possible they could turn it around and go on a good win streak.

Let's see what happens the next few games.

[ag futbol]

You fire Bob the moment you’ve locked down a PERMANENT head coach. Rest of the front office goes quietly in the winter.

The roster is what it is for the rest of the season (Laryea) aside, let the FO focus on selling tickets or whatever until end of the season.
If we’re fully cleaning house, I think Manning would usually be the first one out the door. Bob stays on longer but inevitably gets shown the door by the new President who hires his own guy.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Patrick Viera was good at NYC and a lot of pundits seem to think got an early exit at Palace.

He too would be a candidate to consider; great mention. At the very least he has had MLS experience/exposure. Jeez, with the names being suggested by the community, the list of potential (that is, realistic/seemingly attainable) considerations is certainly not very short. I am not personally convinced Viera would be the right choice, but then again what do I know; absolutely nothing! I thought BB would be the answer; so far he is not looking like it. I truly hope I am wrong.

Edit: For me a Laurent Blanc would be really interesting. Yet, realistically attainable; IDK?

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the American thing is likely (another reason Tata is unlikely). Vanney back is too much absurdity and the others, if they came, I’d probably give up watching, that’s all just too depressing.

My question to you is: if these are the likely options, why are you calling for Bradley’s head now?

As bad as most of that bunch is, most of them would probably do better now than Bob.

But it more speaks to getting rid of Manning too and his USMNT filled roladex so we could expand our search parameters.

[los sonadores]

As bad as most of that bunch is, most of them would probably do better now than Bob.

But it more speaks to getting rid of Manning too and his USMNT filled roladex so we could expand our search parameters.

I don’t know about that, doing better than Bob now. Okay, maybe some of them could get us out of 13th but so should Bob be able to do that. Mostly we’ve been in a playoff position. Had we won on Saturday we’d have been in 5th alongside NYCFC (who we beat last week). It’s MLS and still early on. Three points is the difference between top third and bottom third of the table.

I don’t think the current situation with everything in one person’s hands and in addition, a relatively unengaged upper management guy who seems to be focusing on the Argos is a good balance. At the same time, we’re in a weird American franchise league with a huge corporate Canadian ownership (that may as well almost be American). Hiring Americans is going to be comfortable for them and I don’t expect otherwise

[Ultra & Proud]

I don’t know about that, doing better than Bob now. Okay, maybe some of them could get us out of 13th but so should Bob be able to do that. Mostly we’ve been in a playoff position. Had we won on Saturday we’d have been in 5th alongside NYCFC (who we beat last week). It’s MLS and still early on. Three points is the difference between top third and bottom third of the table.

With our roster being what it is and what it cost we shouldn't have a manager in place that should be able to be get us out of 13th. That really shouldn't be a question and realistically the only weeks we should have ever been around 13th would be weeks 1 & 2.

Didn't some guy almost 10 years say "why can't we be great?" in a TFC presser? Well have we fallen now to maybe we could get out of 13th? Maybe we could make the playoffs in 7th? Maybe if we won matches instead of drawing or losing them we could be in 5th?

[los sonadores]

With our roster being what it is and what it cost we shouldn't have a manager in place that should be able to be get us out of 13th. That really shouldn't be a question and realistically the only weeks we should have ever been around 13th would be weeks 1 & 2.

Didn't some guy almost 10 years say "why can't we be great?" in a TFC presser? Well have we fallen now to maybe we could get out of 13th? Maybe we could make the playoffs in 7th? Maybe if we won matches instead of drawing or losing them we could be in 5th?

I don’t think too many people would be unhappy if, after all the injuries, we were in the top 1/3 of the table. If we got the result last week we would have been. I said that those proposed managers, none of who I think would be a good idea, might get us out of 13th because I don’t think they’d do much more and would not be successful over time. I’d rather see how Bradley does for the first time with his roster, without many key injuries, and adequate time to play together.

[jloome]

If you want to know the exact problem with Bob, go look at those passing maps Mr. Inbetween just posted in the New England game thread; they are very telling.

New England's is very simple: run the ball up the wings, particularly the left. Collectively, Dejuan Jones just ran by Bernie, Servania and Laryea all game, as if they weren't even there.

Now look at our passing map. A million ways to go sideways. Look how many types of passes we're trying without even exiting our own end. Zero play through the middle? I'm sorry, that's not great defense, that's tactical foolishness. That's being set up and told to get it to the wings as quickly as possible, and then waiting until the wingers show deep and ARE ALSO TRAPPED IN OUR END.

It's clear; we tried absolutely ZERO diagonal movement in the center of the park and concentrated 100% of our forward movement on the wings. Our midfield passing pattern is literally a rectangle in our end of the pitch.

That's by design. That is a BAD gameplan.

If anyone thinks Coello was overwhelmed, I'll note he was our statistically best player on the day outside of Richie; he just barely saw the ball all day.

Servania or Kaye or the fullbacks got it... and immediately tried to headman it to either insigne or Bernadeschi... even when they had to come back into our half to show for it. At no point did Sapong come back far enough to show for the ball, and at no point did any of the midfielders try to penetrate the attacking third to offer the other two mids a triangle or advance man to pass to between the lines.

We were completely one-dimensional. That's largely why we were spanked. The team's actualy underlying numbers -- we still passed at an 80% clip and had 20 shots -- all showed we had plenty of possession, so we weren't played off the park. We just gave the game up tactically.

I have zero faith in the guy anymore. I know he's had winning teams, but they seem like good alchemy; he got the exact players for his system in LA. Still, even then, he had to leave for them to go all the way.

I think shit like this is why.

I don't trust his judgment in players -- I think the arguments about giving Shaffelburg a chance to start elsewhere are largely bullshit, good teams don't give up good, young depth just to give players opportunities -- and I don't think he is a good tactical coach. Within his system, he does not prep us adequately for the teams we're playing.

We were completely tactically outcoached. That's what that passing map says. No team fails to land a SINGLE diagonal pass into the offensive third unless it's by design. And it was a stupid design.

Literally, the game we'd just won, was predicated on the mids stepping up into the middle third and winning challenges high, and then advancing through the headman, Sapong. But if we have no one IN the middle third, and no one passing to them, because we're immediately going lateral to the wing no matter how deep the ball, how the fuck are we supposed to unbalance their defense?

How do you have transitional goals if the other team can just maintain their defensive positioning in transition? You can't. How do the Italians shed constant double pressure with no central outlet? They can't.

He tried to adjust what we were doing to a new opponent and in doing so, eliminated the things that had made us successful a week earlier.

[JoesphNdo]

I don’t think too many people would be unhappy if, after all the injuries, we were in the top 1/3 of the table. If we got the result last week we would have been. I said that those proposed managers, none of who I think would be a good idea, might get us out of 13th because I don’t think they’d do much more and would not be successful over time. I’d rather see how Bradley does for the first time with his roster, without many key injuries, and adequate time to play together.

Top 33% of the league with the money spent and carte blanche to rip the team apart and start fresh is not success. It may not be an abject failure, but it is definitely not an achievement to be proud of or necessarily a sign that this management team is working. Injuries wouldn't be as much of a problem if we were even semi competent in building a roster.

And the latter point is the biggest (Well one of two biggest issues) we have with Bob. It's less Bob the manager and more Bob the GM. Our roster construction has not been good at all.

[Graeme]

Hmmm...sounds like we could have used MB out there...

[jloome]

Top 33% of the league with the money spent and carte blanche to rip the team apart and start fresh is not success. It may not be an abject failure, but it is definitely not an achievement to be proud of or necessarily a sign that this management team is working. Injuries wouldn't be as much of a problem if we were even semi competent in building a roster.

And the latter point is the biggest (Well one of two biggest issues) we have with Bob. It's less Bob the manager and more Bob the GM. Our roster construction has not been good at all.

No, it's Bob the manager.

Please, if you don't want to read the long screed I understand, as the ideas get going and I post too much.

But seriously, go look at the passing maps from New England, in the New England game thread.

We lost because we were tactically inept. We passed at an 80% clip, and yet the vast majority were in a rectangle within our own end. We attempted essentially zero forward passes through the middle and zero diagonal passes through the middle.

Consequently, all they had to do was double up on the Italians repeatedly. We did nothing centrally to shift their defense. They could literally just drop into a low unit once we were across the half, with zero space created.

It was tactical ineptitude. He made a really bad call about playing solely through the wings.

[JoesphNdo]

No, it's Bob the manager.

Please, if you don't want to read the long screed I understand, as the ideas get going and I post too much.

But seriously, go look at the passing maps from New England, in the New England game thread.

We lost because we were tactically inept. We passed at an 80% clip, and yet the vast majority were in a rectangle within our own end. We attempted essentially zero forward passes through the middle and zero diagonal passes through the middle.

Consequently, all they had to do was double up on the Italians repeatedly. We did nothing centrally to shift their defense. They could literally just drop into a low unit once we were across the half, with zero space created.

It was tactical ineptitude. He made a really bad call about playing solely through the wings.

Yeah I definitely don't disagree, and wouldn't say he's been a great manager but a bad GM. I guess I'm just more willing to give some benefit of the doubt on the management side with his track record and significantly less likely to assume there's a masterplan I can't see on the GM side. But I definitely have some major concerns on the management side, too. Everything you said being one, and the issues with his son that have been discussed to death here, also.

[Oldtimer]

It's less Bob the manager and more Bob the GM. Our roster construction has not been good at all.

The problem is that Bob can construct a roster to match his style if he's 100% in control, he's done it before, however it's unrealistic to think he can have that. If Manning is hiring random Italian stars for marketing purposes, this ties his hands.

For this reason it might be best if BB goes, because while he can win if he gets a team that matches his style, he's not flexible enough to change his style to match the players that he has. Insigne doesn't match his style of play and that's going to mean years where he will be trying to work around someone who should be built around.

[jloome]

The problem is that Bob can construct a roster to meet his style if he's 100% in control, he's done it before. However it's unrealistic to think he can have that. If Manning is hiring random Italian stars for marketing purposes, this ties his hands.

For this reason it might be best if BB goes, because while he can win if he gets a team that meets his style, he's not flexible enough to change his style to match the players that he has. Insigne doesn't match his style of play and that's going to mean years where he will be trying to work around someone who should be built around.

This is, succinctly (which I should learn, but hell, I write books for a living), the entire point.

He is not a tactical coach. He has a set system, the players have to be able to do it. Within that, the adjustments he makes to try to get this group as productive as possible simply don't work and are often not the right call.

[Ultra & Proud]

It was tactical ineptitude. He made a really bad call about playing solely through the wings.

It was this plus either being too stubborn to adapt the gameplan or not even realizing that it needed to be adjusted.

Bob's post match talk about giving up an early goal and then Bruce doing a low block, did they really? They were still were rampaging down the right wing. I think they crowded their box when we had solid offensive possession because that's what everyone should do against us. You now we'll pass it around, waste our own time, and then launch in a prayer cross or let one of the Italians try for a long shot and hope for the best. That plus any Richie marauding is basically our whole offensive strategy.

[JoesphNdo]

The problem is that Bob can construct a roster to match his style if he's 100% in control, he's done it before, however it's unrealistic to think he can have that. If Manning is hiring random Italian stars for marketing purposes, this ties his hands.

For this reason it might be best if BB goes, because while he can win if he gets a team that matches his style, he's not flexible enough to change his style to match the players that he has. Insigne doesn't match his style of play and that's going to mean years where he will be trying to work around someone who should be built around.

For sure that is part of it, 100%. But he's also made glaring errors beyond the DPs. If we are, as he says, up against the cap completely with no room to move with our roster the way it is (No depth whatsoever really, no striker who'd start on any other decent MLS squad, a *very* questionable central mid field even if everyone is fit and not entirely sure what our RB situation is after this summer) then he wears that failure completely even if the DPs maybe weren't his choice

We've traded very poorly, Shaff is a big one as Jloome mentioned. I don't think he's the second coming of Messi, but what he was was a very useful, versatile player at very low cap hit. You *need* players like that on your roster, they are essential in MLS and not finding a way to make it work and convince him to stay is exactly the kind of move that doesn't seem super significant but in the context of MLS salary rules is an example of why our roster is so poorly put together

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't think our roster is as terrible as made out.

Defense is fine. Should even be okay if Richie goes and that might be for the best to allow some more $$$ to use elsewhere. Petretta is a question though.

Forwards needs a little work. Italians are fine. Back ups need work. Sappong is a decent back up for now. The bloat at the 9 position needs to be fixed and we need a real one. Doesn't have to be some huge name "let's sell us some season memberships" kind either. A Buskas or Giakoumakis type would do fine.

Midfield has good pieces. A core of MAK, Coello, & Servania is a fine base. I think we would be better without one of MB & Osorio or both. We should be looking at finding a dynamic, pacey offensive midfielder for balance.

All of which is doable but it's unfortunately based on us trimming some fat or hoping MLS loosens the cap ASAP.

[jloome]

I don't think our roster is as terrible as made out.

Defense is fine. Should even be okay if Richie goes and that might be for the best to allow some more $$$ to use elsewhere. Petretta is a question though.

Forwards needs a little work. Italians are fine. Back ups need work. Sappong is a decent back up for now. The bloat at the 9 position needs to be fixed and we need a real one. Doesn't have to be some huge name "let's sell us some season memberships" kind either. A Buskas or Giakoumakis type would do fine.

Midfield has good pieces. A core of MAK, Coello, & Servania is a fine base. I think we would be better without one of MB & Osorio or both. We should be looking at finding a dynamic, pacey offensive midfielder for balance.

All of which is doable but it's unfortunately based on us trimming some fat or hoping MLS loosens the cap ASAP.

Any number of other managers would be doing much more with what we have.

[OgtheDim]

Give the ball to the Italians working about as well against a low block as 2018 give the ball to Seba did against a low block.

Only one game - I'd like to see the same graphs for the NYC game & the Atlanta games to see if games states changed things.

It does point out the problem with having so many touches but such bad xG.

What those positional charts don't track is speed of ball movement - that is the key to Bradley / Vanney ball and we were crap at it against NER after being much better against NYC.

[Bushmancan]

I don't think our roster is as terrible as made out.

Defense is fine. Should even be okay if Richie goes and that might be for the best to allow some more $$$ to use elsewhere. Petretta is a question though.

Forwards needs a little work. Italians are fine. Back ups need work. Sappong is a decent back up for now. The bloat at the 9 position needs to be fixed and we need a real one. Doesn't have to be some huge name "let's sell us some season memberships" kind either. A Buskas or Giakoumakis type would do fine.

Midfield has good pieces. A core of MAK, Coello, & Servania is a fine base. I think we would be better without one of MB & Osorio or both. We should be looking at finding a dynamic, pacey offensive midfielder for balance.

All of which is doable but it's unfortunately based on us trimming some fat or hoping MLS loosens the cap ASAP.


I would agree, and i would add one small thing. I know we really want our #9 to be able to hold up the ball but the more i see it, we need someone with pace that can keep defences honest. This for MLS might be a unicorn but we need someone that LI and Bernie feel comfortable playing the ball to. IMHO

[SenorDingDong]

I would agree, and i would add one small thing. I know we really want our #9 to be able to hold up the ball but the more i see it, we need someone with pace that can keep defences honest. This for MLS might be a unicorn but we need someone that LI and Bernie feel comfortable playing the ball to. IMHO

Bernie and LI need to be comfortable playing the ball to anyone though. If they decide who is worthy of getting a pass this team will never win.

Insigne I feel like is better at this recently.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The problem is that Bob can construct a roster to match his style if he's 100% in control, he's done it before, however it's unrealistic to think he can have that. If Manning is hiring random Italian stars for marketing purposes, this ties his hands...


For sure that is part of it, 100%. But he's also made glaring errors beyond the DPs…

A 30? player TFC roster - 2 players (Lollo and Fede) = 28 players, accordingly, that BB should then have pragmatic selective control over. And hence, subsequently, 93% of the roster to glaringly error with! For now, I would have to agree with JN’s argument and skepticism about BB’s ability to construct/manage his section of that playground. He has had three transfer windows so far to produce (some) wins; realistically, and unless things turn around, when should the end of that runway be reached? Another one or two more windows?

[Ultra & Proud]

Any number of other managers would be doing much more with what we have.
For sure because there are teams playing much better than we are, with points and goals to show for it, with worse rosters even with our injuries in the league right now. San Jose is one of them. Houston & Vancouver are others.

I am tired of the injury excuse and the time to gel excuse. That's what months of training is for and why they get paid to be professional footballers and pro managers/coaches. Other teams seem to be able to deal with things like injuries or they are able to incorporate new players in quickly without needing months to gel.

[jloome]

What those positional charts don't track is speed of ball movement - that is the key to Bradley / Vanney ball and we were crap at it against NER after being much better against NYC.

True. And again, if you eliminate the entire middle of the field as an option, nothing moves quickly. It was a suicidal approach.

[Ultra & Proud]

True. And again, if you eliminate the entire middle of the field as an option, nothing moves quickly. It was a suicidal approach.
Let's see if that tactic continues or we adjust. And if it continues, for how long it goes until Bob admits defeat and changes it up.

[Oldtimer]

This is, succinctly (which I should learn, but hell, I write books for a living), the entire point.

He is not a tactical coach. He has a set system, the players have to be able to do it. Within that, the adjustments he makes to try to get this group as productive as possible simply don't work and are often not the right call.

That's why I was and am lukewarm with BB. While BB has won stuff, a tactical coach gives you much more possibility and IMO is the direction where teams should be moving as MLS develops.

We had a tactical coach, traded him for a failure, and then brought in someone who is more MLS past than MLS future. It may have felt a "safe bet" at the time to Manning, but we could do better.

[Ultra & Proud]

Bothers me a bit that even Olsen, who I in no way wanted at all, has Houston playing pretty well for what they have there.

I agree we should look towards getting a tactical manager with some fresh ideas in but I have no idea who we could get and I bet Manning has even less of a clue.

[jloome]

Bothers me a bit that even Olsen, who I in no way wanted at all, has Houston playing pretty well for what they have there.

I agree we should look towards getting a tactical manager with some fresh ideas in but I have no idea who we could get and I bet Manning has even less of a clue.

Bring in a guy from the lower leagues in England or Europe, but one who has won repeatedly or gotten teams promoted repeatedly. There are quite a few out there.

They'll have the knowledge of working with restricted budgets, which means they'll have required tactical adaptation to be consistently successful. (Gary Smith in Nashville, for example.)

They're easier to find than world-class guys like Tata, but the ones who win consistently eventually also get chances at higher levels, so they're not THAT easy.

Either way, the search should be underway already, even if they're optimistic about Bob.

Football teams are like famous deaths at newspapers: you need an obituary ready, written usually years before then updated, because you have to react quickly. When they aren't ready, you get situations like Leeds and Southampton, where they've each gone through three managers in one season.

[los sonadores]

I would agree, and i would add one small thing. I know we really want our #9 to be able to hold up the ball but the more i see it, we need someone with pace that can keep defences honest. This for MLS might be a unicorn but we need someone that LI and Bernie feel comfortable playing the ball to. IMHO

That would be Diomande but of course he’s been injured and barely played.

[los sonadores]

That's why I was and am lukewarm with BB. While BB has won stuff, a tactical coach gives you much more possibility and IMO is the direction where teams should be moving as MLS develops.

We had a tactical coach, traded him for a failure, and then brought in someone who is more MLS past than MLS future. It may have felt a "safe bet" at the time to Manning, but we could do better.

For all the many other reasons that have been thought of, I suspect collapsing two roles/two hires into one coach/sporting director also appealed to Manning. It probably means less for him to do in terms of both hiring and general overseeing of things TFC.

[jloome]

For all the many other reasons that have been thought of, I suspect collapsing two roles/two hires into one coach/sporting director also appealed to Manning. It probably means less for him to do in terms of both hiring and general overseeing of things TFC.

I suspect Bob demanded it, that he figures he works best when he can pick and choose his entire lineup. We can see that's the only way his system seems to work. He might have realized that, too, or at the least that he got his best results when involved in player selection.

[Ultra & Proud]

Two minutes to midnight.

Doomsday approaches.

[OgtheDim]

Two minutes to midnight.

Doomsday approaches.



Nah....this game doesn't push the needle that much.

NOW...the beat down One Soccer just did on the midfield play on the two goals & Berna's lack of responsibility? That will get noticed.

[ag futbol]

I think I can say with some confidence that if after all this time we are questioning if Bradley can field a competitive team there is no way in hell he is ever leading anyone to a MLS cup.

[Ultra & Proud]

Nah....this game doesn't push the needle that much.

NOW...the beat down One Soccer just did on the midfield play on the two goals & Berna's lack of responsibility? That will get noticed.

How about after we lose this Saturday?

[portu]

I’m wondering if it’ll take something Armas-esque for BB to get the sack.

We are squarely in fireable territory not sure what more will move the needle during the season beyond an even longer string of bullshit.

[ag futbol]

I’m wondering if it’ll take something Armas-esque for BB to get the sack.

We are squarely in fireable territory not sure what more will move the needle during the season beyond an even longer string of bullshit.
In Chris Armas’s defence, he had a fraction of the budget Bradley has.

[jloome]

Nah....this game doesn't push the needle that much.

NOW...the beat down One Soccer just did on the midfield play on the two goals & Berna's lack of responsibility? That will get noticed.

I will tell you that according to my little bird at TFC, Manning's take is that they're struggling due to injuries, particularly MB and MH.

Having said that, that was just prior to the Philly game. But he was already, clearly, already deciding whether to circle the wagons or make a move, or he wouldn't be communicating about it to others.

And that is a dead cert source, by the way.

[nick.mastro]

This is a 100% sack after this weekend.

[Areathrasher]

I don't see Bob Bradley leading this team to any sort of success as a coach or GM.

He has to go.

[jloome]

This is a 100% sack after this weekend.

It should be. I think Bill might cling to the injury situation even then, as it won't have changed by then.

But the injuries aren't why the most expensive lineup in league history shits the bed offensively, game after game.

[Ultra & Proud]

It should be. I think Bill might cling to the injury situation even then, as it won't have changed by then.

But the injuries aren't why the most expensive lineup in league history shits the bed offensively, game after game.

MB + MH = Goals

[JoesphNdo]

If he loses on Saturday he has to go. He's out of excuses at this point. The idea that Michael Bradley, whose been very poor this season, would make a difference or that Hedges is responsible for an attack having no cohession is absurd. If manning believes that he's worse than I thought.

The problem is manning needs to go, too. I'd take a bad manager with a semi component GM instead of the other way around if offered

[jloome]

MB + MH = Goals

He's just of the opinion, I am told, that sometimes rebuilds take longer than expected.

He cites Salt Lake taking 18 months back in 2010 (although they did win a cup in 2008, so it's not like they were coming off a bad first two years), and us taking three years after the bloody big deal.

I mean, it's a narrative at this point. I think we all sort of recognize he's not motivating this team OR setting them up to win. The guys on OneSoccer weren't wrong; we were outworked everywhere.

To me, we look tight and nervous all the time. Job 1 of a manager is getting rid of that.

[DinamoTFC]

I think it's safe to say now that Bob has done more negative than positive.

Wasted all of last year trying to give the young guys minutes only to sell the ones he gave the most minutes to and showed any qualities of depth (Shaff, Petrasso, Nelson..Priso prior).

Got rid of Pozuelo who was willing to take a TAM contact (his words) until he knew he was on the way out and then at last second requested Miami for his gf who he's no longer with and now in Turkey. Pozuelo type player is the player we are missing to connect with the DPs.

Wasted lots of GAM on Kaye who's been very underwhelming.

Lots of old signings or bad signings. Ex Petretta shouldn't be on TAM (who is solid defensively but offers absolutely nothing going forward, Franklin can do same job). Osorio who I like is massively overpaid. Everyone is overpaid. Akinola never should be given contract he was given after knee surgery.

Lost to a terrible Montreal who got rid of literally all their best players and had more turnover then us but somehow they are better than us.

Twice the amount of losses to wins with better players than Armas ever had.

Team is slow and lackluster as hell.

Lastly, arrogant and restricts information to journalists. Great job keeping fans interested.

Please add more if you have.

Do what you have to do and get Tata Martino in ASAP

[ag futbol]

MB + MH = Goals
Haha!

I know people are saying MLSE will stand pat here and not do anything but I can see several paths where they are prompted to action.

1) a call from the league office to our ownership group basically politely pointing out our team is a dumpster fire. Happened before with Mo and Anselmi.

2) The Italians decide to bail and Bob’s corpse is the only way to keep them in town.

3) less likely I admit but we’re seeing a more bold media lately when it comes to posting towards TFC (Kilbane taking MB to the woodshed as a reference point). If they go after BB and Manning, I don’t think this will be easily missed by the upper brass.

[Ultra & Proud]

Haha!

I know people are saying MLSE will stand pat here and not do anything but I can see several paths where they are prompted to action.

1) a call from the league office to our ownership group basically politely pointing out our team is a dumpster fire. Happened before with Mo and Anselmi.

2) The Italians decide to bail and Bob’s corpse is the only way to keep them in town.

3) less likely I admit but we’re seeing a more bold media lately when it comes to posting towards TFC (Kilbane taking MB to the woodshed as a reference point). If they go after BB and Manning, I don’t think this will be easily missed by the upper brass.

There's some US media going at Bob for being a dinosaur though. Maybe not local because they're all shills but abroad, yes.

[Oldtimer]

In Chris Armas’s defence, he had a fraction of the budget Bradley has.
You know things are terrible when Armas is compared favourably.

It's not that the players are struggling valiantly and just miss it. It's like they are lost and have no idea what to do. That's coaching.

Unlike the Vanney death watch thread, I don't think this team is going to turn around sufficiently and both BB and MB will be gone.

[Ultra & Proud]

You know things are terrible when Armas is compared favourably.

It's not that the players are struggling valiantly and just miss it. It's like they are lost and have no idea what to do. That's coaching.

Unlike the Vanney death watch thread, I don't think this team is going to turn around sufficiently and both BB and MB will be gone.

I think Armas would do better right now.

[Richard]

What a spectacular failure. Montreal is on a shoe string budget, lost all of its good players, and yet here we are.

"Worst team in the world" - Danny Koevermans

[Initial B]

BB has had my prerequisite 3 windows, and BM has had even more time to watch the team degenerate on his watch, with no coat-tails to ride anymore. If they lose on Saturday, I think they both should be gone. If TFC really are in "win now" mode, then MLSE can't afford to waste another season. Notice the other firings that have happened in the last 24 hours. Things happen in threes. MLSE will have to move now if they want a chance at Tata before the Red Bulls and Fire jump the gun on them. That will give Tata a month to figure out what he has to work with and a summer transfer window to right the ship before pushing for a playoff spot.

[Kamp Berg]

I’d even take Vanney on an interim basis right now. At least he adjusts to his player’s strengths sometimes.

[RealG-TFC]

I’d take Vanney on an interim basis right now. At least he adjusts to his player’s strengths sometimes.

I too would not hate this.

[MikeForbes]

I welcome our new overlord, Gregg Berhalter, after Bill Manning uses Bob Bradley as his next meatshield.

[JoesphNdo]

The biggest reason why I think Bob isn't going anywhere even if we lose the next 3 is quite simply exit strategy, I don't see how there is one. We are all in, and nuclear blasting the entire org is the only way out

Firstly, you have Bob as GM and manager, making it already difficult to fire him and figure out how to move forward in the short term. And frankly, he's been poor at both, so moving him full time into one role and replacing him in the other doesn't do much

Then there's Michael. This is supposition on my part, but I suspect he's been promised the keys to the kingdom, possibly as far back as his first TAM contract but almost certainly from Bobs arrival. And I also suspect Bobs early moves, which didn't make sense from an on field pov, were all Michael calls. It's also why he's undroppable despite performance so poor the media outlet owned by the team dedicated a pre show to calling him out

And one further is Manning. He shares culpability here, and confidence in him to do his job has to be low. We have not been bad, but we have been the worst team in MLS history in terms of roster quality vs spend. Every single non Bezbatchenko year in our history. And I mean that literally, statistically, we have the absolute worst point return to dollar spend in league history - the literal bottom. So how do you clear the rot without clearing Bill?

So to actually move on from this situation, you argubly need to remove both Bradleys (Team captain and manager/gm, no less) and Manning and then with all of those gone find a new GM, new manager and start the roster over from scratch. A bloated roster up against the salary cap with no room to maneuver. All while, possibly, reneging on a deal you made with our captain and a man widely seem as a club legend. The fall out could be spectacular. And even after doing all that, the new team would struggle to right the ship for at least two years since we are basically not going to move anyone off this roster to open up cap space at the salaries we're paying.

So I just see us as bring truly stuck. We'd have to really, really hit rock bottom (And that really is empty stands) to justify all that, that's my worry. I suspect the soft reset is more likely. Bob sees us to winter come hell or high water (Expect us to act like making the play offs in a league where like 2/3 of the team make is an achievement akin to winning a world cup) and then is moved upstairs, Michael comes in and we just pray it somehow all works out despite all evidence that it won't

[Ultra & Proud]

I welcome our new overlord, Gregg Berhalter, after Bill Manning uses Bob Bradley as his next meatshield.

And I welcome yet another rollback to year one pricing season memberships because after all this, that's where we're landing thanks to Billy.

[Areathrasher]

With his Argos and WC responsibilities - they won't get rid of Manning

[jloome]

The biggest reason why I think Bob isn't going anywhere even if we lose the next 3 is quite simply exit strategy, I don't see how there is one. We are all in, and nuclear blasting the entire org is the only way out

Firstly, you have Bob as GM and manager, making it already difficult to fire him and figure out how to move forward in the short term. And frankly, he's been poor at both, so moving him full time into one role and replacing him in the other doesn't do much

Then there's Michael. This is supposition on my part, but I suspect he's been promised the keys to the kingdom, possibly as far back as his first TAM contract but almost certainly from Bobs arrival. And I also suspect Bobs early moves, which didn't make sense from an on field pov, were all Michael calls. It's also why he's undroppable despite performance so poor the media outlet owned by the team dedicated a pre show to calling him out

And one further is Manning. He shares culpability here, and confidence in him to do his job has to be low. We have not been bad, but we have been the worst team in MLS history in terms of roster quality vs spend. Every single non Bezbatchenko year in our history. And I mean that literally, statistically, we have the absolute worst point return to dollar spend in league history - the literal bottom. So how do you clear the rot without clearing Bill?

So to actually move on from this situation, you argubly need to remove both Bradleys (Team captain and manager/gm, no less) and Manning and then with all of those gone find a new GM, new manager and start the roster over from scratch. A bloated roster up against the salary cap with no room to maneuver. All while, possibly, reneging on a deal you made with our captain and a man widely seem as a club legend. The fall out could be spectacular. And even after doing all that, the new team would struggle to right the ship for at least two years since we are basically not going to move anyone off this roster to open up cap space at the salaries we're paying.

So I just see us as bring truly stuck. We'd have to really, really hit rock bottom (And that really is empty stands) to justify all that, that's my worry. I suspect the soft reset is more likely. Bob sees us to winter come hell or high water (Expect us to act like making the play offs in a league where like 2/3 of the team make is an achievement akin to winning a world cup) and then is moved upstairs, Michael comes in and we just pray it somehow all works out despite all evidence that it won't

I don't disagree with a lot of this, except the MB upstairs part. I would be willing to bet money that isn't happening. I do have some sources still, and there's not even a hint of that, ever.

He doesn't even have his badges. It's not going to happen. Manning is a former player, and he's survived shrewdly in the business. He's not handing this shitpile to an inexperienced guy.

[gracos]

Bob and Bill understand inspiring football, and i knew the boys had fight and desire to win the championship, thats all we can expect from TFC

[Ultra & Proud]

With his Argos and WC responsibilities - they won't get rid of Manning

They can promote him higher into MLSE and out of TFC. He's earned it.

[JoesphNdo]

I don't disagree with a lot of this, except the MB upstairs part. I would be willing to bet money that isn't happening. I do have some sources still, and there's not even a hint of that, ever.

He doesn't even have his badges. It's not going to happen. Manning is a former player, and he's survived shrewdly in the business. He's not handing this shitpile to an inexperienced guy.

I trust your sources so I do take some comfort in that. That does relieve some complication there but it's still such a mess and the way out is going to be absolutely painful

[ag futbol]

With his Argos and WC responsibilities - they won't get rid of Manning
Yeah the Argos are really thriving as an organization too. I can’t wait to see what BM does with a World Cup game!

[Ultra & Proud]

Well there's rumors Klein & Vanney will be ousted in LA so we could just bring in another batch of proven American MLS winners.

[jloome]

Well there's rumors Klein & Vanney will be ousted in LA so we could just bring in another batch of proven American MLS winners.

Klein is suspended for a year by the league for cooking the books, and only has his job in the first place because he attends an evangelical church with the owner, Phil Anschutz.

[Ultra & Proud]

Klein is suspended for a year by the league for cooking the books, and only has his job in the first place because he attends an evangelical church with the owner, Phil Anschutz.

I bet he's in Manning's roladex though.

[TheGoodson]

They need to go nuclear and hopefully the Italians want out sooner rather than later…

that way you get a new gm and coach and get as close to a blank slate as you can get

[ag futbol]

They need to go nuclear and hopefully the Italians want out sooner rather than later…

that way you get a new gm and coach and get as close to a blank slate as you can get
Do you think they need to go full nuke on the roster though? Maybe I’m naive but I seriously think it could be a lot better with a few key additions and a different coach. Namely: a solid midfielder with pace and a quality target man.

[Ultra & Proud]

They need to go nuclear

They're working on it.

[jloome]

I suspect if Bernardeschi held onto the ball for so long with Tata coaching, he'd take him off. He would certainly not put up with anything less than quick, crisp movement in training, at full game speed.

He wouldn't brook a moment of this bullshit.

[Ultra & Proud]

quick, crisp movement in training, at full game speed. .
Pretty sure this isn't happening in training now. Must just be a mess at Downsview.

[los sonadores]

The biggest reason why I think Bob isn't going anywhere even if we lose the next 3 is quite simply exit strategy, I don't see how there is one. We are all in, and nuclear blasting the entire org is the only way out

Firstly, you have Bob as GM and manager, making it already difficult to fire him and figure out how to move forward in the short term. And frankly, he's been poor at both, so moving him full time into one role and replacing him in the other doesn't do much

Then there's Michael. This is supposition on my part, but I suspect he's been promised the keys to the kingdom, possibly as far back as his first TAM contract but almost certainly from Bobs arrival. And I also suspect Bobs early moves, which didn't make sense from an on field pov, were all Michael calls. It's also why he's undroppable despite performance so poor the media outlet owned by the team dedicated a pre show to calling him out

And one further is Manning. He shares culpability here, and confidence in him to do his job has to be low. We have not been bad, but we have been the worst team in MLS history in terms of roster quality vs spend. Every single non Bezbatchenko year in our history. And I mean that literally, statistically, we have the absolute worst point return to dollar spend in league history - the literal bottom. So how do you clear the rot without clearing Bill?

So to actually move on from this situation, you argubly need to remove both Bradleys (Team captain and manager/gm, no less) and Manning and then with all of those gone find a new GM, new manager and start the roster over from scratch. A bloated roster up against the salary cap with no room to maneuver. All while, possibly, reneging on a deal you made with our captain and a man widely seem as a club legend. The fall out could be spectacular. And even after doing all that, the new team would struggle to right the ship for at least two years since we are basically not going to move anyone off this roster to open up cap space at the salaries we're paying.

So I just see us as bring truly stuck. We'd have to really, really hit rock bottom (And that really is empty stands) to justify all that, that's my worry. I suspect the soft reset is more likely. Bob sees us to winter come hell or high water (Expect us to act like making the play offs in a league where like 2/3 of the team make is an achievement akin to winning a world cup) and then is moved upstairs, Michael comes in and we just pray it somehow all works out despite all evidence that it won't

This is the likely scenario except the MB thing. I can’t see that happening, the guy doesn’t even have his badges. Also, he’s never once suggested he’d like to coach. I would lose all respect for him if that’s the way it went.

MLSE is a slow moving corporate entity who moreover stands to gain nothing but headaches from firing BB now.

Assholes throwing stuff at our own players isn’t going to help either.

edit: sorry I didn’t mean “who”! Which. I don’t believe cooperations are people… maybe very dumb creatures but not people. On the other hand, some of those in our supporters section tonight don’t seem to be people either.

[los sonadores]

Do you think they need to go full nuke on the roster though? Maybe I’m naive but I seriously think it could be a lot better with a few key additions and a different coach. Namely: a solid midfielder with pace and a quality target man.

Full nuke is the fans panacea. I don’t think it gets you somewhere except where we were last year (which I don’t think was a good idea to begin with.)

Some of the comments are kind of amusing here tonight. Yes, it was shit and we lost and ended up with even more injuries - we had MAK in central defence and less than a competent midfield. It looks like we’ll have a central defence next match with a kid who arrived last week and a call up with no MLS level experience. But what’s with calling for replacement coaches who suck and no sporting director. What’s the point of that, exactly?

[Ultra & Proud]

But what’s with calling for replacement coaches who suck and no sporting director. What’s the point of that, exactly?

Because that's exactly what Manning will do if he isn't sacked too. No point in thinking bigger because it won't happen so you have to choose the least shitty BM (HA!) option.

[jloome]

Can someone explain to me, tactically, why we almost never put a quick ball into the box, from either winger? Insigne tried one late, but not to a crowded box; he was aiming for guys running in to meet it.

But quite often, Bermardeschi will beat his guy... and then try to beat another guy. Or try to run to a shooting position or into the box.

He never just crosses it, even when we have two or three people in the box. Insigne is mostly doing this, too.

It has to be by tactical request, because the fullbacks also never launch a ball high or early. Richie goes to the baseline, the left back never really overlaps except to support.

Most goals are second chances, which occur if you try crosses, even if people aren't in the optimal positions. Sometimes, because. But we really don't ever do that.

It's the system. I fucking hate it. It's restrictive and requires a ridiculously balanced lineup, by MLS standards. If we had a great GM and time to start over, ala LA... I still don't think Bob's personality is motivational. So it probably still would suck.

[bhandsome90]

BB is inflexible. For a salary cap league, I think manager needs to be able to adapt because most teams won't have great depth players like the bigger leagues.

[los sonadores]

Can someone explain to me, tactically, why we almost never put a quick ball into the box, from either winger? Insigne tried one late, but not to a crowded box; he was aiming for guys running in to meet it.

But quite often, Bermardeschi will beat his guy... and then try to beat another guy. Or try to run to a shooting position or into the box.

He never just crosses it, even when we have two or three people in the box. Insigne is mostly doing this, too.

It has to be by tactical request, because the fullbacks also never launch a ball high or early. Richie goes to the baseline, the left back never really overlaps except to support.

Most goals are second chances, which occur if you try crosses, even if people aren't in the optimal positions. Sometimes, because. But we really don't ever do that.

It's the system. I fucking hate it. It's restrictive and requires a ridiculously balanced lineup, by MLS standards. If we had a great GM and time to start over, ala LA... I still don't think Bob's personality is motivational. So it probably still would suck.

Good question. I’ve been wondering about this since the Italians arrived. I still don’t know the answer. What I can say with reasonable certainly is that Richie has always done his thing the way he does it now, no matter the coach or tactics. Too, it’s always more successful than it isn’t. But I find the play of both wingers baffling often because when what they do comes off, more often than not it won’t. Tonight, I found Bernie’s play especially baffling. And it might be said that Insigne really benefited from Cricito’s support. DC would often carry the ball in and set up in a narrower perch from where LI, out wider, could begin to work and where he didn’t, of course, have two or three guys attending to him.

I may be alone on this board and I know well that when things are going badly the answer is often to fire the coach… but I’d like to see Bob get further with what he’s trying to do. I want to see what he’s trying to do. I know there’s something there for this group I just can’t tell what it is!

Last year was a travesty and I think the carte blanche, no pressure tear down was foolish and arrogant… but I know there’s something of interest with this roster and whatever the hell Bob wants them to do. The injury list looks ever more absurdly long (too long to type) so who knows when we will find out. I think until then (if that time comes) he’s got to begin really working with what he has.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Someone, anyone, please tell me Bradley has been fired?

[nick.mastro]

I’m really looking forward to some sort of announcement today.

[Canary10]

Good question. I’ve been wondering about this since the Italians arrived. I still don’t know the answer. What I can say with reasonable certainly is that Richie has always done his thing the way he does it now, no matter the coach or tactics. Too, it’s always more successful than it isn’t. But I find the play of both wingers baffling often because when what they do comes off, more often than not it won’t. Tonight, I found Bernie’s play especially baffling. And it might be said that Insigne really benefited from Cricito’s support. DC would often carry the ball in and set up in a narrower perch from where LI, out wider, could begin to work and where he didn’t, of course, have two or three guys attending to him.

I may be alone on this board and I know well that when things are going badly the answer is often to fire the coach… but I’d like to see Bob get further with what he’s trying to do. I want to see what he’s trying to do. I know there’s something there for this group I just can’t tell what it is!

Last year was a travesty and I think the carte blanche, no pressure tear down was foolish and arrogant… but I know there’s something of interest with this roster and whatever the hell Bob wants them to do. The injury list looks ever more absurdly long (too long to type) so who knows when we will find out. I think until then (if that time comes) he’s got to begin really working with what he has.

I really appreciate your belief and Jloome’s attempts to figure out what it is Bob is trying to do. If there is a grand plan it’s really eluding me.

[OgtheDim]

How about after we lose this Saturday?


Again, he won't get fired until they are either out of playoff contention or dangerously close to it.

[Oldtimer]

I’d even take Vanney on an interim basis right now. At least he adjusts to his player’s strengths sometimes.


I too would not hate this.

+1
He likely will be available soon, as LAG will probably fire him (although their struggles are more to do with team construction rather than coaching). I'd be happy to have him back for the reasons you mentioned. He's a technical coach who knows how to get something out of players like Insigne.

[OgtheDim]

I think Armas would do better right now.

Ugh, no.

I remember those weeks - they were worse.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Again, he won't get fired until they are either out of playoff contention or dangerously close to it.

We were supposed to come out of the gate on fire...all the excuses are now done.

WITH the Italians...the horrndous Philly game where we were humilated. The NE game at home where we meakly lost...and then last night again at home vs Montreal who unloaded all their good players...coach gone....is at a fraction of our budget and they walk in here and beat us in a cup game...

This has to end now and lets salvage the season. Bradley is ruining this team and sucking the life out of it and for the fans....we are grossly underachieving...need to stop the rot, bring someone in, literally anyone and change the culture and we will be better.

No more excuses about "time"...ffs, Montreal just beat us and they have a completely new team, new coach and no budget....no more injury excuses...everyone has injuries...and in the Philly, NE and last night losses, that is WITH the Italians....imagine if bad it would be without them? Bradly has lost this team...can't motivate, can't coach, is incomptent, the players I strongly suspect don't respect him...(my opinion) and its over. If teams below us can fire their managers, why not us?

Anyone would be better. Make the move MLSE, now.

[ag futbol]

Ugh, no.

I remember those weeks - they were worse.
I guess the debate would be whether the team would just tune out Armas and plays more relaxed than it does under Bradley. Sort of like, are no instructions better than too many instructions and having someone looking over your shoulder at all times.

Don’t underestimate the removal of the burden of having the coach’s son in the room.

[woolly]

Adding fuel to the fire, I can see Laryea not wanting to hang around at any price if TFC continues to be a dumpster fire. I think it's more reasonable that he'd ride the bench at Nottingham and look for a loan/trade to another outfit rather than continue to participate in this debacle.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I guess the debate would be whether the team would just tune out Armas and plays more relaxed than it does under Bradley. Sort of like, are no instructions better than too many instructions and having someone looking over your shoulder at all times.

Don’t underestimate the removal of the burden of having the coach’s son in the room.


Carlo Ancelotti lets his guys play...and the players love him. Differnt say to a Guadriola...both both are loved by their players and go through walls for them...and win.

I don't think anyone on this team outside of his son enjoys playing for Bradley...and I can safely assume, the Italians think he is not a good manager at all....and have tuned him out.

Having the son on the team just complicates things ever more. Imagine when/if Bradly sr is canned...the lockeroom with son still there?

What needs to happen is Bradly and Manning are fired this morning. New coach comes in, captaincy given to one of the italians and on we go.

I'd actually love Perez back here...we played somew of our best football with him here. And he wasn't afraid to bench Mike, when Mike was better than he is now....and I imagine given his background in places like Real's system, would garner immediate respect from the Italians...and everyone would get on board and we'd turn it around

Tata is the best choice if somehow we could convince him.

But at this point I don't care who, just get rid of Bradley and Manning today. No more of this s.hitshow...enough is enough.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'd actually love Perez back here...we played somew of our best football with him here. And he wasn't afraid to bench Mike, when Mike was better than he is now....and I imagine given his background in places like Real's system, would garner immediate respect from the Italians...and everyone would get on board and we'd turn it around

I will say this one more time; if Perez is so good then why does he have no job and no employment ever minus when he is with his pal, Armas?

Because he is shit. But he does have a nice website.

So how about we focus on a new manager that might be here for 3+ years and actually have a feasible, MLS ready plan that isn't something rigid & stupid like the gegenpress or whatever Bob is trying to do.

[FootBallAZ]

i also wanted to mention that- what is happening with MAK is Bob's fault- the over payment of a 1st and GAM and the full 90M = disaster - unfortunate MAK got into it with the supporters and that the supporters tossed the megaphone - at this point the environment is toxic for the players and is becoming toxic for the supporters-

everyone is getting paid well to do a job- they should be doing their jobs- regardless- of the moves that highlights someones mistakes or mis-judgements.

[Hala Hrvatska]

So how about we focus on a new manager that might be here for 3+ years and actually have a feasible, MLS ready plan that isn't something rigid & stupid like the gegenpress or whatever Bob is trying to do.

I'd take literally anyone at this point. Bradley's "system" whatever it is, doesn;t work and the players don't work.

He also ran Poz out of town (including others) when Poz would be perfect in the midfield to work with the Italians....our midfield is horrendous...and we have no striker...that's all on Bradley.

I hate that I am losing interest in this team...but Bradley has turned this into a disaster.

[Hala Hrvatska]

i also wanted to mention that- what is happening with MAK is Bob's fault- the over payment of a 1st and GAM and the full 90M = disaster - unfortunate MAK got into it with the supporters and that the supporters tossed the megaphone - at this point the environment is toxic for the players and is becoming toxic for the supporters-

everyone is getting paid well to do a job- they should be doing their jobs- regardless- of the moves that highlights someones mistakes or mis-judgements.

MAk has vastly under achieved...I simply think he is not a good player. Him, Bradley and Oso is the worst midfield combo in the league....and are paid quite a bit also.

Meanwhile Priso, McNaguton and Shaffleburgh who all Bob dumped were good enough to start over the weekend for their teams in wins....

[Mr. Inbetween]

I will say… So how about we focus on a new manager that might be here for 3+ years and actually have a feasible, MLS ready plan that isn't something rigid & stupid like the gegenpress or whatever Bob is trying to do.

Ange Postecoglou? IIUC, he may be on a yearly rolling contract? Recent reports are Celtic are worried he may leave; Leeds interested?

[FootBallAZ]

MAk has vastly under achieved...I simply think he is not a good player. Him, Bradley and Oso is the worst midfield combo in the league....and are paid quite a bit also.

Meanwhile Priso, McNaguton and Shaffleburgh who all Bob dumped were good enough to start over the weekend for their teams in wins....



i truly feel bad for MAK - his frustrations now becoming public - behind closed doors it must be very heated/toxic.

[Mr. Inbetween]

i also wanted to mention that- what is happening with MAK is Bob's fault- the over payment of a 1st and GAM and the full 90M = disaster - unfortunate MAK got into it with the supporters and that the supporters tossed the megaphone - at this point the environment is toxic for the players and is becoming toxic for the supporters-

everyone is getting paid well to do a job- they should be doing their jobs- regardless- of the moves that highlights someones mistakes or mis-judgements.

Fair or not, MAK got a lot of verbal heckling/abuse post match. I try to remind myself Footballers are people as well; they got their own/other stuff going on too. He did seem to be one of a few players who went to acknowledge the supporters post match. Or was it just part of continued heated engagement from the get go; I wasn’t able to tell? From my perspective and vantage point, a SSH in SEC221, that frustration wasn’t just from SEC114 but also from some others of those that were there and remained after the final whistle in the South Stands; even a few from KITN. Visually, lot’s of raised arm gestures and yelling. After MAK’s interaction with 114, it seemed he had to be restrained once again as he drifted to 119 instead of continuing directly to the tunnel; there were a number in that section that seemed to also be having a go at it.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ange Postecoglou? IIUC, he may be on a yearly rolling contract? Recent reports are Celtic are worried he may leave; Leeds interested?
He would be great but his career trajectory isn't going MLS bound at the moment.

[Ultra & Proud]

MAk has vastly under achieved...I simply think he is not a good player.

You see I think he is a good player and can do a job BUT only when the system he has to play in makes sense. Right now nobody, and I mean nobody, knows where to pass or when. He isn't the only one making shit passes and holding the ball too long, everyone is and they're doing it because they don't know where to pass or where to move and they have no idea where anyone else is without stopping and looking to figure it out and by then the passing lanes are gone. One touch passing is difficult if nobody is where they're supposed to be.

[reggie]

Ange Postecoglou? IIUC, he may be on a yearly rolling contract? Recent reports are Celtic are worried he may leave; Leeds interested?
pie in the shy stuff here,the prob is bill has only US area codes in his rolodex

[Ultra & Proud]

pie in the shy stuff here,the prob is bill has only US area codes in his rolodex
There is no probably about that. This is why I figure our most likely successors to Bob will be Marsch or Berhalter most likely and Vanney as a long shot because Manning will think 2017 nostalgia vibes will smooth over the bad vibes and be good for a PR push later.

And then he'll sign Giovinco to a TAM deal for 2 seasons to keep the randos on Twitter and IG happy.

[jloome]

I may be alone on this board and I know well that when things are going badly the answer is often to fire the coach… but I’d like to see Bob get further with what he’s trying to do. I want to see what he’s trying to do. I know there’s something there for this group I just can’t tell what it is!
.


Just watch an LAFC game. It's the exact same system. Those players just suit it. And their head coach, Steven Cherundolo, said he has tweaked how they approach games and some tactical decisions from how his predecessor would've handled it. But it's the exact same movement system.

It's not going to work here, period. It requires extremely high talent levels and quickness, across the board.

[jloome]

I will say this one more time; if Perez is so good then why does he have no job and no employment ever minus when he is with his pal, Armas?

Because he is shit. But he does have a nice website.


That's brutally unfair. He seemed a good coach to me, given what he was working with.

But he's a youth coach. His entire career before us consisted of a few years with the US youth national team, and then prior to that he was a youth coach in La Liga for a decade.

He has no head coaching experience. But he's not "shit" or "unhirable."

If he can't get a gig here, it might be because he declared himself the interim in a press conference, undermining his GM. But even that I doubt. I imagine he's back to working with young players, and if he isn't already, he will be soon enough.

[Ultra & Proud]

That's brutally unfair. He seemed a good coach to me, given what he was working with.

But he's a youth coach. His entire career before us consisted of a few years with the US youth national team, and then prior to that he was a youth coach in La Liga for a decade.

He has no head coaching experience. But he's not "shit" or "unhirable."

If he can't get a gig here, it might be because he declared himself the interim in a press conference, undermining his GM. But even that I doubt. I imagine he's back to working with young players, and if he isn't already, he will be soon enough.

Maybe but he still hasn't even had lower level experience which tells you something. He is most likely just a X's and O's guy. Watching him speak last season never filled me with any thought that he was a motivator. Motivation to sleep maybe.

Working with kids doesn't always equal pro success and since that's all he's had minus his interim stint here, it looks like other people who do hiring think he doesn't have what it takes at the pro level or even semi-pro either. Maybe he isn't inherently unhirable but until he actually gets hired that's what he is.

[ag futbol]

I never thought of Perez as someone who would be “the guy” but more of an effective interim manager.

What he did show in his short time in charge though was the amount of politics and BS that surrounded our roster which he didn’t seem to care one bit about or whose toes he stepped on. He had the guts to drop Bradley and Altidore from the starting lineup and the team performed when that happened. That’s my lasting memory.

[Ultra & Proud]

I never thought of Perez as someone who would be “the guy” but more of an effective interim manager.

He seems to me to be a good assistant type coach in charge of fine tuning tactics and coming up with gameplans under a manager who is more of the motivational sort.

[ag futbol]

Looking at the schedule, after Mtl, we have RBNY home and away at Austin. Let’s assume that goes 1-1-1 just for the sake of discussion. And the odds of winning away at Austin on our current form would seem slim.

So, if you were making a coaching change, you eject Bob after Austin, then new guy comes in and gets DC at home, Chicago at home, and Minnesota away. If you ever wanted to give a new guy an easy start, this is it.

[jloome]

He seems to me to be a good assistant type coach in charge of fine tuning tactics and coming up with gameplans under a manager who is more of the motivational sort.

That's probably fair. He was perhaps too gentle.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I never thought of Perez as someone who would be “the guy” but more of an effective interim manager.

What he did show in his short time in charge though was the amount of politics and BS that surrounded our roster which he didn’t seem to care one bit about or whose toes he stepped on. He had the guts to drop Bradley and Altidore from the starting lineup and the team performed when that happened. That’s my lasting memory.

Yeah, and he didn't care about the repurcussions, I loved that he did it...shook things up. And we saw Priso look good until got hurt.

Compare and contrast to Bradley though right now...is not capable and this will be the last gig he gets. just hope he doesn't go upstairs...we need a clean break from Manning and the Bradleys. Enough.

[jloome]

Looking at the schedule, after Mtl, we have RBNY home and away at Austin. Let’s assume that goes 1-1-1 just for the sake of discussion. And the odds of winning away at Austin on our current form would seem slim.

So, if you were making a coaching change, you eject Bob after Austin, then new guy comes in and gets DC at home, Chicago at home, and Minnesota away. If you ever wanted to give a new guy an easy start, this is it.

I don't know how he survives if we lose the next two games. Mtl speaks for itself. NYRB are terrible this year and their only decent striker is suspended for calling the ref a "monkey" (which I'm told in Belgium really isn't a racist thing, but he's still an idiot).

Austin are struggling this year, too. Really, we should be expecting maximum points out of those three. The team we played yesterday wasn't good, but they were motivated. They just completely outworked us in every area of the pitch.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Looking at the schedule, after Mtl, we have RBNY home and away at Austin. Let’s assume that goes 1-1-1 just for the sake of discussion. And the odds of winning away at Austin on our current form would seem slim.

So, if you were making a coaching change, you eject Bob after Austin, then new guy comes in and gets DC at home, Chicago at home, and Minnesota away. If you ever wanted to give a new guy an easy start, this is it.


Definitely. Plus the new coach "bounce" will help. The excitement will be back as well.

The thing is, I bet Bradley (is so arrogant and aloof) thinks he is doing a great job still right now...that we are progressing in a "good way"....

The added benefit of firing him is I won't ever hear him say "in a good way" again...gets on my nerves so much...though MB will still use that until he is done here....

[Ultra & Proud]

The added benefit of firing him is I won't ever hear him say "in a good way" again...gets on my nerves so much...though MB will still use that until he is done here....

You're going to start seeing me say it. I'm adding it into the act until Bob's gone. Not like all over the place willy nilly but planned out in a good way.

[Hala Hrvatska]

You're going to start seeing me say it. I'm adding it into the act until Bob's gone. Not like all over the place willy nilly but planned out in a good way.

Am hoping manning and bradley are let go in good way today.

[ag futbol]

I don't know how he survives if we lose the next two games. Mtl speaks for itself. NYRB are terrible this year and their only decent striker is suspended for calling the ref a "monkey" (which I'm told in Belgium really isn't a racist thing, but he's still an idiot).

Austin are struggling this year, too. Really, we should be expecting maximum points out of those three. The team we played yesterday wasn't good, but they were motivated. They just completely outworked us in every area of the pitch.
Yeah, fair. This should be an easier stretch, It would be a shame to waste it with Bob continuing as coach.

[Ultra & Proud]

Am hoping manning and bradley are let go in good way today.
My bet is that it will be Monday. We will lose Saturday and that will give Manning some time stop doing whatever Argos stuff he does and start making calls to his American buddies to take over.

[jloome]

My bet is that it will be Monday. We will lose Saturday and that will give Manning some time stop doing whatever Argos stuff he does and start making calls to his American buddies to take over.

He is aware Tata is interested in coming back to MLS, according to my little bird. He sounds like he respects the guy. But my sense is he totally wedded the "rebuild" to hiring Bob, and has sold that to others. His internal line is 'patience', but that was before New England and Montreal.

[JoesphNdo]

I'm still skeptical we have a chance on Tata, but if we have and we just choose not too...Jesus Christ.

[Ultra & Proud]

He is aware Tata is interested in coming back to MLS, according to my little bird. He sounds like he respects the guy. But my sense is he totally wedded the "rebuild" to hiring Bob, and has sold that to others. His internal line is 'patience', but that was before New England and Montreal.
Wedding a rebuild to a candidate who is clearly failing is grounds for the sack as well. Just this tidbit equals Manning definitely out of TFC. They can keep him for the Argos and WC or condos, etc. His time here should be done.

[TheGoodson]

I don’t think Bob will be fired after the weekends match as there is a built in excuse… last night Rosted came off injured and by the end of the match the new defender was limping. Which means there are 0 healthy centre backs. So unless TFC looses by 5 plus they will use the injuries as excuse.

with respect to JLoome’s little bird I heard the same thing… manning has tied himself to Bob and the only way change will happen is if they miss the playoffs which is a low bar in this league.

[stevep]

Crazy prediction: Greg Vanney will be the new tfc manager

[JoesphNdo]

I don’t think Bob will be fired after the weekends match as there is a built in excuse… last night Rosted came off injured and by the end of the match the new defender was limping. Which means there are 0 healthy centre backs. So unless TFC looses by 5 plus they will use the injuries as excuse.

with respect to JLoome’s little bird I heard the same thing… manning has tied himself to Bob and the only way change will happen is if they miss the playoffs which is a low bar in this league.

Jesus Christ, imagine giving someone the absolute top budget in any environment and calling "being in the 38th percentile" a success. Is being in charge of TFC the best job on planet earth? I wish I could get paid that much, be given that much to work with, and have that little pressure to deliver

[TheGoodson]

Jesus Christ, imagine giving someone the absolute top budget in any environment and calling "being in the 38th percentile" a success. Is being in charge of TFC the best job on planet earth? I wish I could get paid that much, be given that much to work with, and have that little pressure to deliver

manning’s job is even better than bob’s

[Ultra & Proud]

manning’s job is even better than bob’s
The first tenured president of a company/team ever.

He is eternal.

[ag futbol]

I don’t think Bob will be fired after the weekends match as there is a built in excuse… last night Rosted came off injured and by the end of the match the new defender was limping. Which means there are 0 healthy centre backs. So unless TFC looses by 5 plus they will use the injuries as excuse.

with respect to JLoome’s little bird I heard the same thing… manning has tied himself to Bob and the only way change will happen is if they miss the playoffs which is a low bar in this league.
Not surprising but it’s also so asinine for MLSE to behave this way it’s unbelievable. How hard is it to set some clear guard rails on performance such that silly situations like the one we are in now can’t happen? It wouldn’t even take much involvement, just really basic governance principals.

They look like a bunch of dupes managing their sports enterprises like this.

[leedsandTFC]

He is aware Tata is interested in coming back to MLS, according to my little bird. He sounds like he respects the guy. But my sense is he totally wedded the "rebuild" to hiring Bob, and has sold that to others. His internal line is 'patience', but that was before New England and Montreal.

if tata is interested in coming back need to drive a dumptruck of money to his door and do whatever it takes to get him.

i've been preaching patience for bob as we've had injuries and still building, but it's clearly not working and the injuries look to be based on a systematic issue caused by whatever they are doing (3 starters injured in warmups, 1 in training).

there's still a good season to be had here but if the next few games go poorly they need to make the change. lots of good coaches out there.

[Kamp Berg]

Not surprising but it’s also so asinine for MLSE to behave this way it’s unbelievable. How hard is it to set some clear guard rails on performance such that silly situations like the one we are in now can’t happen? It wouldn’t even take much involvement, just really basic governance principals.

They look like a bunch of dupes managing their sports enterprises like this.

Not surprising at all. They probably do have governance principles, about profit. Considering neither company seems to give a shit about its customers, it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

[jloome]

if tata is interested in coming back need to drive a dumptruck of money to his door and do whatever it takes to get him.

i've been preaching patience for bob as we've had injuries and still building, but it's clearly not working and the injuries look to be based on a systematic issue caused by whatever they are doing (3 starters injured in warmups, 1 in training).

there's still a good season to be had here but if the next few games go poorly they need to make the change. lots of good coaches out there.

I believe he'd be a $1-2 million a year coach, minimum. So they might not do it on that basis alone. But he, or someone just like him, is what we need: someone with a superb international track record who is above all able to handle a disparate dressing room and will adapt his demands to it.

I mean, I'd be up for Bielsa if I didn't think man-to-man football in this league would destroy us with injuries and fatigue. Again, beloved wherever he works. People in Leeds would elect him mayor, if he ran.

[jloome]

I don’t think Bob will be fired after the weekends match as there is a built in excuse… last night Rosted came off injured and by the end of the match the new defender was limping. Which means there are 0 healthy centre backs. So unless TFC looses by 5 plus they will use the injuries as excuse.

with respect to JLoome’s little bird I heard the same thing… manning has tied himself to Bob and the only way change will happen is if they miss the playoffs which is a low bar in this league.

I'm not going to suggest all these injuries are players deliberately tanking Bob, but I do wonder if, when mildly injured, they aren't all 'working to rule', which means being as stickler about recovery as possible, because coming back isn't going to help anything.

[leedsandTFC]

I believe he'd be a $1-2 million a year coach, minimum. So they might not do it on that basis alone. But he, or someone just like him, is what we need: someone with a superb international track record who is above all able to handle a disparate dressing room and will adapt his demands to it.

I mean, I'd be up for Bielsa if I didn't think man-to-man football in this league would destroy us with injuries and fatigue. Again, beloved wherever he works. People in Leeds would elect him mayor, if he ran.

bielsa would only come in the offseason. you need an offseason for that style to be implemented, but also i dunno if it would work in MLS due to the travel involved and days off involved with that. would be another big risk.

tata or patrick viera would be by bets atm.

[TheGoodson]

If MLSE goes with Tata, Viera or any other foreign coach, they need to find a Bez to handle the gm duties

Coach says to GM I need players that fit x profile or suggest actual players… and let them manoeuvre with all of the cap issues and rules the MLS has

[Ultra & Proud]

If MLSE goes with Tata, Viera or any other foreign coach, they need to find a Bez to handle the gm duties



That's what Manning is for :leaving:

[OgtheDim]

There's a lot of group think going on in here that is not shared in places where this decision would be made.

If I were to put an odds up for a loss Saturday meaning a BB firing next week, i'd say its 30-1.


Hey, I'm not suggesting we don't have issues that a change in manager might fix - just I'm pretty darn sure BM is not firing BB yet.

[Ultra & Proud]

Hey, I'm not suggesting we don't have issues that a change in manager might fix - just I'm pretty darn sure BM is not firing BB yet.

Only because it would reflect poorly on him that all his hires (Curtis, Armas, Bradley) were all terrible and the team keeps getting reduced to ground zero after all his hires fail. He gets no credit on Vanney. He wasn't here when he got hired to TFC.

[MikeForbes]

There's a lot of group think going on in here that is not shared in places where this decision would be made.

If I were to put an odds up for a loss Saturday meaning a BB firing next week, i'd say its 30-1.


Hey, I'm not suggesting we don't have issues that a change in manager might fix - just I'm pretty darn sure BM is not firing BB yet.

I am pretty sure if Bob is fired, Bill is going with him. Also, have a hard time believing it would happen before the end of the season.

[Ultra & Proud]

I am pretty sure if Bob is fired, Bill is going with him. Also, have a hard time believing it would happen before the end of the season.
Normally I would say yes but the ire from this season has spread to the normal fans and even random sports people and websites. It's getting some play in mainstream American media and social media accounts (the fight, the megaphone, the fan's anger).

Even the fattest MLSE fat cat knows all about this now. No way to avoid it and this so far, is the ugliest overall stream of frustration I have ever seen aimed at the club and it promises to only get worse. No chance the locker room isn't lost after this. I think soon the toxicity will make holding out until the off season untenable.

[Richard]

I remember reading the TFC season predictions by the soccer analyst's with most of them saying we were a bottom feeder.

Well looks like that wasn't as absurd of a prediction.

[Kiwi10]

Bradley getting sacked is likely longer odds than we hope unless there is a good replacement ready to slide in. They wont do an Armas -> Perez type move which basically throws the towel in on the year.

That being said, MLSE brass must have had CL participation priced into the Insigne & Bernie spend. CCL is a stated goal for the club - crashing out again, in round 1 should have people very unsettled. Now maybe we have a shot to qualify in the final year of Insignes contract? That's a huge misfire. (Playing like this we won't have a chance in hell at leagues cup qualification when MX teams are in the mix).

Bradley has had a lot of input on this roster construction and it's not working or showing signs of improvement. The last 180 minutes at BMO have been aimless football. Are Insigne, Berna, Kaye etc. all suddenly that bad or are we not getting the most out of them due to coaching.

I don't think it's an unappealing gig - some cap issues but some big name players and an open DP slot for the summer window. The optimist in me believes the right coach with a few smart moves in the summer could have us do a Seattle.

[los sonadores]

Just watch an LAFC game. It's the exact same system. Those players just suit it. And their head coach, Steven Cherundolo, said he has tweaked how they approach games and some tactical decisions from how his predecessor would've handled it. But it's the exact same movement system.

It's not going to work here, period. It requires extremely high talent levels and quickness, across the board.

How can you have a system and be so clueless about how it works? Other than the Italians (which is a big ‘other’, I know) it’s Bob making the acquisitions. Don’t you think there is a chance that he’s finding players that he thinks he can work with?

[jloome]

How can you have a system and be so clueless about how it works? Other than the Italians (which is a big ‘other’, I know) it’s Bob making the acquisitions. Don’t you think there is a chance that he’s finding players that he thinks he can work with?

I suspect he believes he can make any decent player effective in it, as he had several young stars (like Opoku) who adapted to it.

But to my mind there are locker room issues here that are going to prevent him having any positive impact.

His son being the captain continues to be a major discomfort thing, I'm sure, regardless of what players say publicly. They can't talk openly in the locker room, because they know what happened to prior players Michael didn't like. Let's face it, Bradley had no way of knowing to go after Pozuelo, Lawrence and Auro Jr without his son telling him who the "troublemakers" were.

On top of that, he is an old-school "tell it like it is" coach. He does not mince words, suck up or blow smoke. But he also has no softer side, that I can see. He is not motivating these guys to win.

Now, it's possible that was also the case in LA. They had the right players for the system, but they were nowhere near as dominant under him as they are under Cherundolo. It's night and day.

[Kiwi10]

Crazy prediction: Greg Vanney will be the new tfc manager

Could have some fun with this and bring back the old 5-3-2. Let the Italians do whatever they need to up front.


-----------------Johnson-----------
--------O'neill - Hedges - Rosted---------
--Laryea --------------------------Petretta
-----------------Bradley--------------------
------------Kaye---------- Osorio----------
-----------------------Insigne-------------
----------------Berna----------------------

[los sonadores]

I don’t think a little bird is needed to know that Bradley was hired and given carte blanch (including the sporting directorship) and he’s still in that period.

In Europe (or even at LAFC) he’d for sure be gone - change is almost a kind of raisin d’être. But at MLSE, for Manning, it’s too uncomfortable, stirs up too much dust. He’s already sold a line of patience and continuity as well as the promise that Bob was the best hire possible for the long term.

And if it was Tata, his average is 13 months at club teams. There would have to be a new sporting director hire as well, and then very soon the whole thing would have to be done over again. It’s unlikely Manning or MLSE wants to get into that. Maybe something happens but I doubt it. And if we make the playoffs, unless the Italians mutiny, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bradley gets another season.

[ag futbol]

I don’t think a little bird is needed to know that Bradley was hired and given carte blanch (including the sporting directorship) and he’s still in that period.

In Europe (or even at LAFC) he’d for sure be gone - change is almost a kind of raisin d’être. But at MLSE, for Manning, it’s too uncomfortable, stirs up too much dust. He’s already sold a line of patience and continuity as well as the promise that Bob was the best hire possible for the long term.

And if it was Tata, his average is 13 months at club teams. There would have to be a new sporting director hire as well, and then very soon the whole thing would have to be done over again. It’s unlikely Manning or MLSE wants to get into that. Maybe something happens but I doubt it. And if we make the playoffs, unless the Italians mutiny, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bradley gets another season.
I think the Italians mutiny or asking to leave town is a strong possibility. Either way, it seriously dents BM and MB’s prospects. These guys aren’t going to roll over and die like this (I would hope, they would definitely have their agents do some arm twisting).

The other thing that’s going to burn both of the bald men is renewals. There is no story that’s going to save this club this off-season.

[jloome]

I don’t think a little bird is needed to know that Bradley was hired and given carte blanch (including the sporting directorship) and he’s still in that period.

In Europe (or even at LAFC) he’d for sure be gone - change is almost a kind of raisin d’être. But at MLSE, for Manning, it’s too uncomfortable, stirs up too much dust. He’s already sold a line of patience and continuity as well as the promise that Bob was the best hire possible for the long term.

And if it was Tata, his average is 13 months at club teams. There would have to be a new sporting director hire as well, and then very soon the whole thing would have to be done over again. It’s unlikely Manning or MLSE wants to get into that. Maybe something happens but I doubt it. And if we make the playoffs, unless the Italians mutiny, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bradley gets another season.

I don't think the 13 months thing is as much of an issue when a manager is in his Sixties. Until now, he's been in constant demand. I know Leeds approached him, but that's the only job he's been hyped for since Mexico, and he came out himself about managing in MLS again. He probably wasn't happy that Leeds called him eighth or ninth, either.

So I think they could get him on a longer deal. At least that way, if someone scooped him, they'd have to buyout his deal and compensate MLSE.

[jloome]

I think the Italians mutiny or asking to leave town is a strong possibility. Either way, it seriously dents BM and MB’s prospects. These guys aren’t going to roll over and die like this (I would hope, they would definitely have their agents do some arm twisting).

The other thing that’s going to burn both of the bald men is renewals. There is no story that’s going to save this club this off-season.

You should see the broader online forums on social media. The number of people saying "I'm out, immediately, unless he's gone," is significant.

And I still dispute the view that attendance for all these games is accurate, and not some fiction based on tickets sold. Because on TV, for the last two home games against New England and Montreal, it has looked half empty.

[SenorDingDong]

Could have some fun with this and bring back the old 5-3-2. Let the Italians do whatever they need to up front.


-----------------Johnson-----------
--------O'neill - Hedges - Rosted---------
--Laryea --------------------------Petretta
-----------------Bradley--------------------
------------Kaye---------- Osorio----------
-----------------------Insigne-------------
----------------Berna----------------------

Replace O'neill with Mabika and im sold!

[los sonadores]

I suspect he believes he can make any decent player effective in it, as he had several young stars (like Opoku) who adapted to it.

But to my mind there are locker room issues here that are going to prevent him having any positive impact.

His son being the captain continues to be a major discomfort thing, I'm sure, regardless of what players say publicly. They can't talk openly in the locker room, because they know what happened to prior players Michael didn't like. Let's face it, Bradley had no way of knowing to go after Pozuelo, Lawrence and Auro Jr without his son telling him who the "troublemakers" were.

On top of that, he is an old-school "tell it like it is" coach. He does not mince words, suck up or blow smoke. But he also has no softer side, that I can see. He is not motivating these guys to win.

Now, it's possible that was also the case in LA. They had the right players for the system, but they were nowhere near as dominant under him as they are under Cherundolo. It's night and day.

I agree that there are probably locker room issues and even if not, MB is likely to always be a major blind spot for his father.

Night and day with Cherundolo? That’s going too far. Until that last season Bradley’s winning percentage there was not unlike Cherundolo’s or was better. Even at the end Bradley’s overall winning percentage was around 60%. And Cherundolo hasn’t been there long.

Also, record expansion team points for Bradley (for the 2nd time in the league), record points for a season, supporters shield, Champion’s league final. We aren’t playing well and last season was, to me, a bad joke, but there wasn’t a lot of ‘night’ for Bradley in LA. Even that the club chose to keep the system once Bradley moved on says something. Normally, there isn’t any devotion to continuity between managers in this league (outside large companies with set corporate identities that prefigure the league - Red Bull especially and Emirates work hard globally at continuity of ‘brand’.)

If there is any lesson to be had from this league it’s that success is often something of a mystery and almost impossible to keep up. Teams go from top to bottom so often, even with the same staff. Or Champions League winners and missing the playoffs at once. It’s all very fragile. Watching the Premier League or supporting a no hoper English club in a far off lower league is a lot easier, me thinks.

[Ultra & Proud]

You should see the broader online forums on social media. The number of people saying "I'm out, immediately, unless he's gone," is significant.

Yeah this has gone way past "oh the hardcores are pissed off for some reason " type of vibe that came up during the Armas debacle. This one is mean and widespread. It isn't going away and it's not going to get any better.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Weather it's BB, BM or the MLSE Board, it will require one of them to...

https://y.yarn.co/763c80a0-af5e-4cc9-b78c-d8ed9ff7ff07_text.gif

https://y.yarn.co/f3dc351c-ef36-450e-912e-46ad08c1900f_text.gif

https://y.yarn.co/811d4824-98de-414d-bf15-751745d80b76_text.gif

[jloome]

If there is any lesson to be had from this league it’s that success is often something of a mystery and almost impossible to keep up.

Also, they have a stronger lineup, with better players in almost every position, and balance.

That's pretty important. Maybe his system would work here if it truly started from scratch. But that's not going to happen, not with a need for DPs who sell seats and Canadian players who are decent.

[Blindside16]

Am hoping manning and bradley are let go in good way today.

I wholeheartedly second this. In a side note I owe you a public apology. In the not so distant past I have thrown jabs and sarcasm your way, even made accusations towards you that looking back were extremely unfair. I had thought your were just, for the lack of a better word, a troll on here to cause trouble with your attacks on Bradley. I have defended him, given him the benefit of the doubt, preached patience all in the hopes of seeing stability and the glory days returning to the club. I can see know that I was completely in the wrong and you had saw something that I missed and refused to see. Bradley is unfit for the position and needs to be removed immediately.

I was man enough to say those things earlier and I am man enough to acknowledge just how wrong I was. Once again, I offer you my most sincerest of apologies.

Bradley and Manning Out!

[Hala Hrvatska]

I wholeheartedly second this. In a side note I owe you a public apology. In the not so distant past I have thrown jabs and sarcasm your way, even made accusations towards you that looking back were extremely unfair. I had thought your were just, for the lack of a better word, a troll on here to cause trouble with your attacks on Bradley. I have defended him, given him the benefit of the doubt, preached patience all in the hopes of seeing stability and the glory days returning to the club. I can see know that I was completely in the wrong and you had saw something that I missed and refused to see. Bradley is unfit for the position and needs to be removed immediately.

I was man enough to say those things earlier and I am man enough to acknowledge just how wrong I was. Once again, I offer you my most sincerest of apologies.

Bradley and Manning Out!


No worries, all water under the bridge. We all want the best for this team.

Bradley still hasn't been fired, Manning neither...am hoping after we lose in Montreal (hope not but would be a shock if we won) * its over and they are both gone. Enough is enough.

* When was the last time we actually won a road game? Seems like forever ago....

[Mr. Inbetween]

Interesting and FWIW…

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1656332914878038017

[Kiwi10]

Interesting and FWIW…

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1656332914878038017

Which drops to a clean 1.0 if we just look at 2023.

12 pts in 11 MLS games + Tuesday's loss.

[Derko]

Bradley getting sacked is likely longer odds than we hope unless there is a good replacement ready to slide in. They wont do an Armas -> Perez type move which basically throws the towel in on the year.

That being said, MLSE brass must have had CL participation priced into the Insigne & Bernie spend. CCL is a stated goal for the club - crashing out again, in round 1 should have people very unsettled. Now maybe we have a shot to qualify in the final year of Insignes contract? That's a huge misfire. (Playing like this we won't have a chance in hell at leagues cup qualification when MX teams are in the mix).

Bradley has had a lot of input on this roster construction and it's not working or showing signs of improvement. The last 180 minutes at BMO have been aimless football. Are Insigne, Berna, Kaye etc. all suddenly that bad or are we not getting the most out of them due to coaching.

I don't think it's an unappealing gig - some cap issues but some big name players and an open DP slot for the summer window. The optimist in me believes the right coach with a few smart moves in the summer could have us do a Seattle.

This I truly agree

[ensco]

I note that our second best manager ever, who is today only 51 years old, is currently managing something called Chester-Le-Street Town, in the 10th tier of English football...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cummins_(football_manager)

[Ultra & Proud]

I note that our second best manager ever, who is today only 51 years old, is currently managing something called Chester-Le-Street Town, in the 10th tier of English football...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cummins_(football_manager)
He would do better than Bob if he started here next week.

[FootBallAZ]

No worries, all water under the bridge. We all want the best for this team.

Bradley still hasn't been fired, Manning neither...am hoping after we lose in Montreal (hope not but would be a shock if we won) * its over and they are both gone. Enough is enough.

* When was the last time we actually won a road game? Seems like forever ago....


bro please manage your expecations.

[Areathrasher]

I'm banking on Italian mutiny. Still surprised D'Amico hasn't started leaking coaching links to Italian press.

I fully expect to hear a Gattuso rumor soon enough

[ag futbol]

I note that our second best manager ever, who is today only 51 years old, is currently managing something called Chester-Le-Street Town, in the 10th tier of English football...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cummins_(football_manager)
Call me crazy, but if we HAD to hire a former manager (which I don’t think we should do) this is the route I’d take. Players coach, got the most out of the guys he had to work with in adverse circumstances with very little support from management.

The only other decent option is Vanney and think that’s just too much recent history. TFC needs a little more of a fresh look.

[Canary10]

I'm banking on Italian mutiny. Still surprised D'Amico hasn't started leaking coaching links to Italian press.

I fully expect to hear a Gattuso rumor soon enough


I think the mutiny has happened on the pitch already. I don't think they're playing under any of Bob's direction right now. That's a big part of the problem.

[SenorDingDong]

I'm banking on Italian mutiny. Still surprised D'Amico hasn't started leaking coaching links to Italian press.

I fully expect to hear a Gattuso rumor soon enough

Gattuso when someone doesn't track back.

https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article12148779.ece/ALTERNATES/s1168v/UEFA-Champions-League-2nd-Round-1st-Leg-Inter-Milan-v-Tottenham-Hotspur-San-Siro-150211.jpg

[Kiwi10]

Given injuries are one mitigating factor in how Bob might be assessed I took a look at the league injury report from this weekend. Not the perfect measuring stick as it's just a snapshot in time, but I couldn't find a straight summary of MLS games lost to injury this season.

TFC currently has 4 players out and 2 questionable, which is bottom 3rd of the league, but not a significant outlier. 10 teams have as many or more injured.

2 of those teams, ATL & NER are still doing quite well.
SKC & NYRB are awful.
The rest are in the same 11-14 pt range.

Not sure we can draw significant conclusions other than injuries will hurt in this league, but good teams, with strong coaching can can overcome.

Bob assembled a team relying on some older core players while shipping out some young cover. Injuries are unfortunate, but shouldn't be unexpected. I don't think our injury problems are worthy of a free pass.
https://imgur.com/a/ZAc2qDI

Data Summary - https://imgur.com/a/ZAc2qDI
Source Data - https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mlssoccer-com-injury-report
(couldn't figure out the picture upload)
https://imgur.com/a/ZAc2qDIhttps://imgur.com/a/ZAc2qDI

[jloome]

Call me crazy, but if we HAD to hire a former manager (which I don’t think we should do) this is the route I’d take. Players coach, got the most out of the guys he had to work with in adverse circumstances with very little support from management.

The only other decent option is Vanney and think that’s just too much recent history. TFC needs a little more of a fresh look.

He wouldn't come back.

When he agreed to take the interim job, someone at TFC promised him they'd get his wife permission to work in Canada, as she didn't want to give up her career. Nurse, I think, but that might be wrong.

Of course, they were just blowing smoke up his ass to get him to take the interim role.

So when the season ended and they rold him a) we're not sure you're the guy, you're going to have to compete for the job and b) we can't guarantee your wife a work visa, he rightfully told them to fuck right off.

Given how he'd been quite successful as a youth coach before moving here, I imagine the whole episode cost him quite dearly.

He was a good manager. He didn't have long, but he turned around Carver's mess almost instantly. I think he was a game above 500 in the end, with a fucking terrible team.

But I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Besides, at this point, the league is bigger, tougher, faster etc.

[ag futbol]

He wouldn't come back.

When he agreed to take the interim job, someone at TFC promised him they'd get his wife permission to work in Canada, as she didn't want to give up her career. Nurse, I think, but that might be wrong.

Of course, they were just blowing smoke up his ass to get him to take the interim role.

So when the season ended and they rold him a) we're not sure you're the guy, you're going to have to compete for the job and b) we can't guarantee your wife a work visa, he rightfully told them to fuck right off.

Given how he'd been quite successful as a youth coach before moving here, I imagine the whole episode cost him quite dearly.

He was a good manager. He didn't have long, but he turned around Carver's mess almost instantly. I think he was a game above 500 in the end, with a fucking terrible team.

But I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Besides, at this point, the league is bigger, tougher, faster etc.
Those people who screwed him at TFC are long gone now. Also, foreign Nurses seem to have recently been granted more pathways to easily work in Canada (give our crisis in healthcare)

But this is all blowing smoke. We’d all agree we should look elsewhere. And you’re probably right, it might be such a sour taste he’d never want to see this place again. There’s at least one city I feel that way about, on account of a former boss/ employer.

[jloome]

Bob's not going anywhere.

My little bird in the front office tells me they put this all down to injuries and bad luck, basically. The positive defensive trend is enough to convince them that if everyone is healthy they'll win games.

Having said that, they are concerned about tactical flexibilty. Mostly, though, they think this is the players underperforming. They believe the backups and youth aren't playing to their potential.

They also see there being a lot of season left to get back on track and that once Michael Bradley, Matt Hedges and Jonathan Osorio are back, we'll be competitive again.

So... I'd have to say they're in a state of total denial at this point. They haven't made any of the logical connections between motivation, drilling and wider team performance. They haven't looked at the longer-term picture of how his record compares with other TFC managers. They aren't relating the statistical underperformance to the tactics.

If I were to guess -- and this is just a guess, not sourced info -- Bill has sold the board on this being THE GUY, and will back him until he has no choice, or Bob forces his hand by saying or doing something fire-able.

As for our injured players:

-- Michael Bradley pulled his hamstring, that's why it's taking so long
-- Matt Hedges pulled his groin muscle in training after the concussion protocol game, so it's a different injury
-- Osorio has a "contact knee injury"; that one seems weird, as you'd think a bruised knee is a few days, tops.

[Ultra & Proud]

Bob's not going anywhere.

My little bird in the front office tells me they put this all down to injuries and bad luck, basically. The positive defensive trend is enough to convince them that if everyone is healthy they'll win games.

Having said that, they are concerned about tactical flexibilty. Mostly, though, they think this is the players underperforming. They believe the backups and youth aren't playing to their potential.

They also see there being a lot of season left to get back on track and that once Michael Bradley, Matt Hedges and Jonathan Osorio are back, we'll be competitive again.

So... I'd have to say they're in a state of total denial at this point. They haven't made any of the logical connections between motivation, drilling and wider team performance. They haven't looked at the longer-term picture of how his record compares with other TFC managers. They aren't relating the statistical underperformance to the tactics.

If I were to guess -- and this is just a guess, not sourced info -- Bill has sold the board on this being THE GUY, and will back him until he has no choice, or Bob forces his hand by saying or doing something fire-able.

As for our injured players:

-- Michael Bradley pulled his hamstring, that's why it's taking so long
-- Matt Hedges pulled his groin muscle in training after the concussion protocol game, so it's a different injury
-- Osorio has a "contact knee injury"; that one seems weird, as you'd think a bruised knee is a few days, tops.

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

[jloome]

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

I have no info on any outside interest at all. My sense is that they're going to push Bob as the guy for as long as is humanly possible, as the injury situation is something they can take to the board as a mitigating factor.

He has people to answer to, even if we rarely hear from them.

Part of the issue is that the front office seems to be largely results based, with respect to their opinions. So they're not really seeing cause-and-effect beyond what's obvious: lots of injuries, tough to win games.

The fact that we weren't winning games before that, because our offensive output is inept, is lost on them, I believe. Insigne and Bernardeschi's poor performances recently are lost on them.

Michael getting surgery doesn't really clarify anything. It seriously impacts my source's arguments -- but so do numerous factors. And if he's out for months and they want to can Bob, Bob's going to have a built-in narrative of "they fired me when injuries were the problem", which Bill will know could affect the weight of his argument to the board about the necessity of the firing, and consequently his own position.

[Ultra & Proud]

Michael getting surgery doesn't really clarify anything. It seriously impacts my source's arguments -- but so do numerous factors. And if he's out for months and they want to can Bob, Bob's going to have a built-in narrative of "they fired me when injuries were the problem", which Bill will know could affect the weight of his argument to the board about the necessity of the firing, and consequently his own position.
True but it would make it easier for Bob to transition to upstairs and make all the injuries someone else's problem.

I wish they were results based. We were actually worse with our main players back. I can see hinging some excuses on the loss of MB & MH but they weren't and won't be the solution to us scoring no goals. Osorio maybe but not this season and if that's where the excuses lie then we need MB to re-do that speach about having no excuses and needing more men.

[jloome]

True but it would make it easier for Bob to transition to upstairs and make all the injuries someone else's problem.

I wish they were results based. We were actually worse with our main players back. I can see hinging some excuses on the loss of MB & MH but they weren't and won't be the solution to us scoring no goals. Osorio maybe but not this season and if that's where the excuses lie then we need MB to re-do that speach about having no excuses and needing more men.

You keep bringing up Bob going upstairs; I don't know where this idea is coming from.

They want him because of his past record as a coach. They have zero interest, as far as I can tell, in making him an executive.

You'd be much more likely to see Justin Morrow in that sort of role than Bob. Someone internal, they know and trust, who has done well for them in a corporate role already.

I really don't think Bob will ever go "upstairs" on his own. This is a sink-or-swim deal. They're just going to give him as long as possible to reach shore before declaring him lost at sea.

[Ultra & Proud]

You keep bringing up Bob going upstairs; I don't know where this idea is coming from.

They want him because of his past record as a coach. They have zero interest, as far as I can tell, in making him an executive.


He is currently in a dual role position I think. I was referring to dropping the on field one and sticking to the other. Not adding anything new or promoting.

[ag futbol]

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?
The Mo Johnston special. Once you’ve filled the room with turds, leave the room and have your replacement step in them. Look down from the top and prolong your lifespan.