Match Day 11 - NER @ TFC Saturday May 6 7:39pm - Don't you wonder what we'll find

[OgtheDim]

Stepping Out Tonight?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJwt2dxx9yg&ab_channel=JoeJacksonVEVO


**********

Have At It People

[Red CB Toronto]

And Jozy comes home , he will always have that 66th minute.

[SenorDingDong]

And Jozy comes home , he will always have that 66th minute.

Didn't realize he was back from Liga MX.

Anyway I predict a low scoring game. NE defense and goaltending is top notch.

[Graeme]

Plus, their main striker was stretchered off the field on Saturday. Probably out for our game. Hope it's not as bad as it looked.

[jloome]

Plus, their main striker was stretchered off the field on Saturday. Probably out for our game. Hope it's not as bad as it looked.

That was Dylan Borrero, their young attacking midfielder. Knee injury of some sort.

Their main striker now is Vrioni, the former Juventus youth. Good, good player.

Borrero was their Tajon replacement and a big part of why they're doing so well this year.

[Yuushalinsky]

NYCFC should not have been as bad as they were last night - this turnaround was fast and one of two things is true:

1) the turnaround really was solidified and we're going to put in a pretty good showing against NER

2) we've still got a ways to go and will either grit towards a 2-2 draw or lose

Hopefully it's option 1.

[OgtheDim]

Doyle speculating the Borreo injury means NER return to a 4-4-2 diamond with bombing WB's providing width and a LOT of midfield possession fighting.

I suspect this match might come down to who can get the ball to the wings quicker.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Doyle speculating… I suspect this match might come down to who can get the ball to the wings quicker.

Coello at centre-mid it is then. :)

[Yuushalinsky]

Coello at centre-mid it is then. :)

Coello has really solidified himself as a viable option, hasn't he? If he starts, I'm expecting this to be his 'test' game and for one of the other three to start having to make room for him if he succeeds.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Coello has really solidified himself as a viable option, hasn't he? If he starts, I'm expecting this to be his 'test' game and for one of the other three to start having to make room for him if he succeeds.

I am enjoying his play and progress; I hold a lot of hope in him. I really liked his sort of hybrid DM effort against <EDIT- Philadelphia? NOT! Meant…> NYCFC; for me, a hybrid between a volante de contencion and de salida.

[los sonadores]

Doyle speculating the Borreo injury means NER return to a 4-4-2 diamond with bombing WB's providing width and a LOT of midfield possession fighting.

I suspect this match might come down to who can get the ball to the wings quicker.

Also, from Doyle - about the last match and Sapong’s influence. I expect more of the same.

“DP wingers Federico Bernardeschi and Lorenzo Insigne both hit season-highs for passes received in the attacking third as per TruMedia via StatsPerform“

[Mr. Inbetween]

Alright, a time to get your football manager spectacles on ask… Fede, now on four yellow cards? Do you, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, him, and instruct he take a deliberate foul in this match, in order to miss the subsequent ‘MLS’ match against CFMTL? Perhaps, have him do so, if the option remains, in the MLS CFMTL match, so he then misses the following match against RBNY? Or, do you do/say nothing and see what happens organically; whenever and wherever that chip may fall?

[OgtheDim]

You want him out there for every match - he kept his head a bit more the last game - see he does it for this one as well so he gets to the derby.

[mowe]

Don’t want to get too far ahead of myself but this is a crucial month for our season.

7 games, 5 at home including a Voyageurs Cup tie. And all winnable IMO. Would be really disappointing to not see a charge up the table with this schedule:

5/6: vs NE
5/9: vs MTL (VCup)
5/13: @ MTL
5/17: vs NYRB
5/20: @ Austin
5/27: vs DC
5/31: vs CHI

[CorrwgBach]

Alright, a time to get your football manager spectacles on ask… Fede, now on four yellow cards? Do you, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, him, and instruct he take a deliberate foul in this match, in order to miss the subsequent ‘MLS’ match against CFMTL? Perhaps, have him do so, if the option remains, in the MLS CFMTL match, so he then misses the following match against RBNY? Or, do you do/say nothing and see what happens organically; whenever and wherever that chip may fall?

There is a good behaviour policy in MLS, if he plays 5 games with no cautions, a card gets removed from the accumulation. 1 down.

[SenorDingDong]

Don’t want to get too far ahead of myself but this is a crucial month for our season.

7 games, 5 at home including a Voyageurs Cup tie. And all winnable IMO. Would be really disappointing to not see a charge up the table with this schedule:

5/6: vs NE
5/9: vs MTL (VCup)
5/13: @ MTL
5/17: vs NYRB
5/20: @ Austin
5/27: vs DC
5/31: vs CHI

5/6 vs NE and the 5/20 @ Austin are really the toughest matches.

I agree with you though. This should be at least 4/6 wins for league games.

[jloome]

5/6 vs NE and the 5/20 @ Austin are really the toughest matches.

I agree with you though. This should be at least 4/6 wins for league games.

O'Brien, klisch and Benteke have made a considerable impact on DC. They've won four in a row.

[OgtheDim]

NYRB always causes us fits & MTL is MTL.

[los sonadores]

NYRB always causes us fits & MTL is MTL.

Yep. In other words they’re almost all tough matches this month and a few too many of them.

[SenorDingDong]

O'Brien, klisch and Benteke have made a considerable impact on DC. They've won four in a row.

Forgot they got O'Brien. He's gone in July though right?

Really I guess any game in MLS is tough. I still stand we need 4/6 wins this run to turn the season into a winning one.

[JoesphNdo]

NYRB always causes us fits & MTL is MTL.

Games like that are always unpredictable but MTL are proper absolute garbage this season, their record is better than their performances and their record is pretty bad. They seem, per the numbers I'm looking at, to be both the leagues worst team on Xg and on Xg against so there's a good argument they may have the leagues worst defence and the leagues worst attack. There's no excuses, if we can't beat them we're in real trouble

[jloome]

Games like that are always unpredictable but MTL are proper absolute garbage this season, their record is better than their performances and their record is pretty bad. They seem, per the numbers I'm looking at, to be both the leagues worst team on Xg and on Xg against so there's a good argument they may have the leagues worst defence and the leagues worst attack. There's no excuses, if we can't beat them we're in real trouble

Last two games they've been much better. Mathieu Choniere is turning into a decent midfielder.

Still should beat them, though.

[Mr. Inbetween]

There is a good behaviour policy in MLS, if he plays 5 games with no cautions, a card gets removed from the accumulation. 1 down.

Yes, correct. While hopeful about his good behaviour, IIUC, historically, more often than not, he has tested, met or exceeded such a threshold. Tactically, I would prefer his absence to be of TFC choosing; against the most desirable/manageable opponent.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yes, correct. While hopeful about his good behaviour, IIUC, historically, more often than not, he has tested, met or exceeded such a threshold. Tactically, I would prefer his absence to be of TFC choosing; against the most desirable/manageable opponent.
Who can blame him? I'd be collecting cards out there if I had to deal with PRO refs on a weekly basis.

[CorrwgBach]

Who can blame him? I'd be collecting cards out there if I had to deal with PRO refs on a weekly basis.

I don't as dissent was my usual yellow, it would be exactly the same for me, probably worse.

Mind you, I was at my pomp 75-90 so you could do almost anything in those days.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1654227519694856193?s=20

[OgtheDim]

Looks like last week's lineup starts this week again.

Good thing Arena rarely changes his lineups to match his opponents

[ag futbol]

And theoretically Dio is available off the bench. Definitely a helpful addition.

[Ultra & Proud]

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1654227519694856193?s=20

Lower body is and always will be our thing.

At some point shouldn't somebody, somewhere start wondering why we're getting these non-stop for years on end with most of them being training injuries?

[los sonadores]

Lower body is and always will be our thing.

At some point shouldn't somebody, somewhere start wondering why we're getting these non-stop for years on end with most of them being training injuries?

Given the complexity of the body, Lower body/upper body seems an almost meaningless designation. I think most football injuries involve the “lower body” which is, what?, anything below the waist?

[Ultra & Proud]

Given the complexity of the body, Lower body/upper body seems an almost meaningless designation. I think most football injuries involve the “lower body” which is, what?, anything below the waist?

We were getting a lot of quad ones and some hamstrings. Like way too many over the past few years. Not as many ankle, calf, or knees.

[los sonadores]

We were getting a lot of quad ones and some hamstrings. Like way too many over the past few years. Not as many ankle, calf, or knees.

Osorio is knee and Vazquez foot. Not sure about the others.

[Ultra & Proud]

Osorio is knee and Vazquez foot. Not sure about the others.
This time yes but going back the last 4-5 years we have had a lot of these.

[FootBallAZ]

This time yes but going back the last 4-5 years we have had a lot of these.


still the same medical team? i guess should be an area of focus to upgrade for sure.

[Ultra & Proud]

still the same medical team? i guess should be an area of focus to upgrade for sure.
I'm not sure. The head guy changed a few times. Not sure about the rest of the staff but we lose a lot of man matches compared to other teams in the league.

[OgtheDim]

I'm not sure. The head guy changed a few times. Not sure about the rest of the staff but we lose a lot of man matches compared to other teams in the league.


Not too sure about that

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mlssoccer-com-injury-report


Would take somebody tracking these things but I suspect we have had in the past a lot of a certain type of injury (calf) - not this year so far apart from Insigne.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not too sure about that

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mlssoccer-com-injury-report


Would take somebody tracking these things but I suspect we have had in the past a lot of a certain type of injury (calf) - not this year so far apart from Insigne.
I know but like I said earlier, we've had this type of thing going for years now. Maybe we just buy/develop fragile players but even Jozy stayed healthy for the most part last season after leaving here. VV was fine in LA. So far Mavinga looks bad on the field but he isn't hurt.

Not sure but we're one of the only teams I can think of that couldn't get all our DPs on the field together a few years back. Always had one of Giovinco or Jozy out, Vasquez too. Not sure what it is but it seems like our injury list has 4+ names on it permanently.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Believe Mavinga was out last week!?

[Ultra & Proud]

^
Believe Mavinga was out last week!?
Well LA have been terrible this season and as we've seen here, when things get real bad and he starts looking real dodgy he tends to get "hurt" for awhile.

[los sonadores]

Not too sure about that

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mlssoccer-com-injury-report


Would take somebody tracking these things but I suspect we have had in the past a lot of a certain type of injury (calf) - not this year so far apart from Insigne.

I’m not commenting on the issue in question because I don’t at all know the answer, though I do know some on this board are of the mind that we lose more, or are usually at the top of, man matches lost. It would be interesting to see data on this in the context of number of matches played and under what conditions the matches are played. That’s a tough one, I think, because there is such disparity of weather, travel and field conditions in MLS.

Champions League runs seem to make for injuries and generally poor fitness/play in MLS. I remember, in our year and the year after, being envious of the quality of Liga MX rosters. They had more players who were obviously capable of starting. Much more balanced rosters.

I remember Bob saying to reporters something like “com-on guys, I read injury reports and it’s always ‘upper body, lower body’ and so don’t ask me for injury details”. At the time I thought it was odd because TFC had always used specifics to describe injuries. I see every other MLS team on the current list except us and Nashville uses specific terms!

[Mr. Inbetween]

^^
True.

[OgtheDim]

^
Believe Mavinga was out last week!?

FWIW, Mavinga pulled hamstring the week before mid game....

[OgtheDim]

Weather forecast


15 degrees

Sunny

slight winds from the south East


********

My gawd, it might actually be a decent night out....

[Red CB Toronto]

What a relief as it has not been nice of late, since that heat wave we had back in April. Looking forward to it.


Weather forecast


15 degrees

Sunny

slight winds from the south East


********

My gawd, it might actually be a decent night out....

[James17930]

I have a cautiously optimistic feeling about this one. I can see us getting the win.

I think this is when the team is going to start pushing on and racking up some wins.

[los sonadores]

Interesting piece on Bradley and Arena.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/bob-bradley-vs-bruce-arena-american-coaching-legends-carry-history-lessons-learn

[CBTFC]

Game Day!

Even though it should be fairly ideal conditions for the game this evening (not too hot or cold and not much wind) I do wish it was an afternoon game. At least 3 or 4 kickoff.

Something about watching a game in the warm afternoon sunshine. Miss that feeling at BMO

[Mr. Inbetween]

Expecting a strong performance by Lollo; goal/s and/or assist/s.

The others, as well, Fede, CJ, Richie, Servania, MAK, et al. (Rosted by noggin); they all need to…

https://youtu.be/DS1mNvXgujQ

It was the (mid) eighties! You had to experience it to understand and appreciate…

[jloome]

At this point, I'm wondering what the hell the non-COVID illness Guitierrez has. It has to be mono, doesn't it? For it to be this long and not a serious medical condition?

[los sonadores]

At this point, I'm wondering what the hell the non-COVID illness Guitierrez has. It has to be mono, doesn't it? For it to be this long and not a serious medical condition?

I don’t know but apparently he trained all week with the group so he must have recovered but not yet be fit enough to play.

[OgtheDim]

For those watching from home

same broadcast crew as last week

https://twitter.com/MLS_PR/status/1653454056617017344

[OgtheDim]

And the ref is.....

oh shit

Toronto FC vs New England Revolution
BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
REF: Fotis Bazakos
AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
AR2: Ian McKay
4TH: Gianni Facchini
VAR: Younes Marrakchi
AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

[jloome]

And the ref is.....

oh shit

Toronto FC vs New England Revolution
BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
REF: Fotis Bazakos
AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
AR2: Ian McKay
4TH: Gianni Facchini
VAR: Younes Marrakchi
AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

This guy fucking hates us, I swear. He seems to have his worst performances every time TFC plays.

[Red CB Toronto]

For those watching from home

same broadcast crew as last week

https://twitter.com/MLS_PR/status/1653454056617017344

Interesting that the Whitecaps seem to have a dedicated local crew on Apple with Blake Price and Paul Dolan, where TFC gets assigned a crew each week. Blake and Paul were both with TSN in the past. I assume we could have seen the same with Luke and Caldwell if both has left TSN ...

[los sonadores]

This guy fucking hates us, I swear. He seems to have his worst performances every time TFC plays.

Headline to a Kurt Lawson story:

“Ref's blunder costs TFC win over Revolution”

[Ultra & Proud]

This guy fucking hates us, I swear. He seems to have his worst performances every time TFC plays.

Every performance of his is worst.

[OgtheDim]

Decent crowd size at this point.

As a guy who hasn't been here unless its freezing, nice to see draft back. :drinking:

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1654982040134008834?s=20

[Ultra & Proud]

Decent crowd size at this point.

As a guy who hasn't been here unless its freezing, nice to see draft back. :drinking:

So that's why it wasn't here. I thought they phased it out. Today was the first time I saw it.

Question; how much is a large of it now? These $20 King Buds kill me to buy.

[OgtheDim]

20 for a large 20 Oz premium goose Island IPA sitting beside me right now

[MikeForbes]

Hedges a late scratch from the starting lineup. That could be trouble.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, NER is slightly better than NYC

[MikeForbes]

MAK's first touch is just dreadful.

[MikeForbes]

Rough start for Kobe.

[MikeForbes]

I'd definitely start considering bringing in JMR for Kobe and having Richie come over to the left.

[samuraizero]

Lol MAK. Sad.

[MikeForbes]

If one of Servania or Coello lose their starting job once Oso or Bradley come back, questions need to be asked.

[Amir.]

13th minute kaye loses the ball easily 30 meters away and leads to a chance

[MikeForbes]

Thought Insigne had that!

[MikeForbes]

Gross by Rosted.

[rydermike]

This team without Hedges is nothing

[Amir.]

rosted mistake and wood punishes...0-1

[Kamp Berg]

Kaye needs to be subbed off

[Amir.]

insigne and bernardeschi putting hands up and clapping for each other when a play is missed is hilarious...guess its an italian thing

[jloome]

This color commentator is awful. Rosted doesn't clear it out of the box because he's marking the player, so he can't get a clean shot. Good lord.

[jloome]

Bazakos is so shit. My lord. I've seen rec league referees with a better view of what's actually going on.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure if it's formation or they are just working harder. We are not bad but they are better.

[ronzilla]

WTF is going on

[Amir.]

ball lost by kaye right in the middle 35 meters from his goal...a minute later he is blown by...a minute later coello is blown by and takes a yellow

[ronzilla]

MAk is just not cut out for a starting position.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Jesus... Seba was at least twice as good/important for TFC like Insigne is, and was making what? Half what Insigne is paid? A third?

[Amir.]

you shouldnt isolate insigne on a side when there isnt enough quality in midfield...result is him and bernardeschi will not be involved enough...got tired of it and dropped to cm at the end of the half...pull kaye put insigne in midfield and the midfield will be better on both sides of the ball

[noxx98]

Today hasn’t been an issue with the system or style. It’s just individual mistakes. Kaye’s touch has been atrocious. Rosted goofed badly.
Also there are a lot more casuals at the game today. Good to have a full stadium but I just had a group arrive and walking up the aisle blocking my view of the Insigne free kick.
Could theoretically be 3-1 if Insigne’s long distance shot, Laryea’s shot and Servenias shot made it in instead of just missing.

[gracos]

great performance from the boys, well done TFC

[los sonadores]

terrible play by play guy - all trivia and ‘special interest’ and very little mention of the match. for viewers who don’t know anything about football… much like this dreadful broadcaster. i switched to the Spanish commentary and i don’t speak the language!

[ronzilla]

Schoolboy error from Rosted. That ball goes back to the GK.

Expecting a better half.

[Oldtimer]

TFC really missing Osorio, this gives the Revs more control over the midfield.

Mind you TFC doing decently well given everything against a very good Revs side.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Could theoretically be 3-1 if Insigne’s long distance shot, Laryea’s shot and Servenias shot made it in instead of just missing.

Or 3-3, or worse for TFC.
Let's not forget NE had 2 big missed chances too...

[Oldtimer]

Or 3-3, or worse for TFC.
Let's not forget NE had 2 big missed chances too...

Put Bono in there and it would be significantly worse. Our GK upgrade has been really important.

[Kamp Berg]

its night and day out there with or without Hedges. Nice that he was such a good signing, but near catastrophic when he’s out.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

its night and day out there with or without Hedges. Nice that he was such a good signing, but near catastrophic when he’s out.

For sure.
And that means we still have no proper defense.... when with 1 man out it's that much of a change.

[ag futbol]

These commentators know they can not talk sometimes right?

Edit: aaarrg

[Amir.]

big applause for tfc great altidore who enters for new england...servania is subbed out, the extremely weak kaye stays on and a couple minutes later he doesnt follow his player and its 0-2

[MikeForbes]

Servania getting subbed out before MAK is a joke, right?

[gracos]

our team looks phenomenal tonight, im so impressed

[noxx98]

Servania and coello were both on yellows. So I understand one of them needed to come off before Kaye. But it’s not ideal.

[OgtheDim]

Mid table team with Midfield injuries struggles against top team.

[Kamp Berg]

Funny how the commentators are trying to play off like this is some chess game of Bradley vs Arena when it’s so one-sided.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Mid table team with Midfield injuries struggles against top team.
Barely mid table...

[ag futbol]

Mid table team with Midfield injuries struggles against top team.
I don’t think it would make a difference. Bradley would be chasing shadows and Osorio hasn’t covered himself in glory this season.

Hedges absence is what’s killing us. And otherwise, we’re playing a team that has played better this season and will be top of the table if they win here tonight.

[Richard]

Mid table team with Midfield injuries struggles against top team.

11 games into the season you are what you are.

Injuries' are part of the game. No depth? That's on management.

[stevep]

our team looks phenomenal tonight, im so impressed
I’m so sad I didn’t renew my season seats
Team looks like a really exciting team to watch
All I want is to be entertained and excited at a game and although I couldn’t make the game tonight (which I am also sad about) it seems TFC was both exciting and entertaining at the same time

[OgtheDim]

There's a lot of good ideas on attack - implementation... Not so much

[PizzaEatingYeti]

It's shocking that with 2 center forwards and both the 2 Italian DPs on the field we can generate so little clean chances.

[Amir.]

tired legs down two goals only two subs used...had to get rutty in there at the very least

[khso11]

Ok step 1, fire Bill Manning

[jloome]

There's a lot of good ideas on attack - implementation... Not so much

We're just too slow at everything. Moving the ball, closing down defensively, primarily.

Every time we have a player in the f inal third, their marker is all over them, instantly. They give them no respect, no yard to beat them or any of that nonsense. They just make it difficult for our guys every time.

They get into our end and quite often the player who should be marking the ball is ten yards off his player when the switch occurs, or the overlap.

It's egregious. Against NYFC, when their players selfishly tried to just run through our midfield, we were fine. Against a team that uses space we are too slow. And I don't think that's biology, I think it's training.

[Bushmancan]

Didn’t look like a team, didnt look like we were playing for pride …didn’t look like we cared.

Hedges not playing was big.

[ag futbol]

Didn’t look like a team, didnt look like we were playing for pride …didn’t look like we cared at all…
Yep. Done with Bob at this point, it’s time to move on.

[portu]

I’m sorry but this has got to be sacking territory before it’s too late to salvage

[noxx98]

I’ve been a big BB apologist but I think I’m on the fire BB bandwagon now.

[jloome]

Didn’t look like a team, didnt look like we were playing for pride …didn’t look like we cared at all…

It's still not working. He does not have them playing for pride, the badge, running through walls. They looked barely interested tonight.

There's still no cohesion in the offensive end. WE got a win with a solid midifeld against NY, but whatever they're trying to accomplish offensively, it's just not working.

WE look like everyone is freelancing and looking for a runner, as if none of the exterior, off-the-ball movement is by design, to accomplish something tactically like creating an overload or a weakness in the middle.

It just seems purposeless.

There was a note in that story about Bradley and Arena in which Cherundolo talks about how executing Bob's system in LA means no room for error, no mistakes, precision passing and movement.

But it's not happening here. Maybe our guys are just too old and set in their ways, and he's trying to teach old dogs new tricks. But it's just not working.

Right now, we have as much chance of losing every game as winning it. we can lose one player defensively, Hedges, or one player offensively, Sapong or Insigne or Bernadeschi, and we will have problems.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

It's egregious. Against NYFC, when their players selfishly tried to just run through our midfield, we were fine. Against a team that uses space we are too slow. And I don't think that's biology, I think it's training.

Solid point here.

Almost everybody says TFC had it's best match of this season against NYFC
Well... they had the "best game of the season" against a team which had a very weak game... TFC was let to have a good game.

But agaist teams who play at least decent? Not much cigar so far...

[synkronized1]

Johnson made some great saves. Could have been much worse. What a mess.

[ag futbol]

I’m not convinced LI and Berna was wide forwards in a front 3 is ever going to be a winning formula. Feels like 1+1=1.5

Neither is particularly fast either. Just doesn’t feel as dynamic as it should be given each of their qualities.

[Ultra & Proud]

We're just too slow at everything. Moving the ball, closing down defensively, primarily.

Every time we have a player in the f inal third, their marker is all over them, instantly. They give them no respect, no yard to beat them or any of that nonsense. They just make it difficult for our guys every time.

They get into our end and quite often the player who should be marking the ball is ten yards off his player when the switch occurs, or the overlap.

It's egregious. Against NYFC, when their players selfishly tried to just run through our midfield, we were fine. Against a team that uses space we are too slow. And I don't think that's biology, I think it's training.

Agree with everything you said and exactly this was killing me all match.

It's 100% on Bob. Deathwatch time has begun.

[ronzilla]

Not one single player had a good game, except maybe Johnson.

Terrible performance.

Win next week or sack BB.

[ag futbol]

Not one single player had a good game, except maybe Johnson.

Terrible performance.

Win next week or sack BB.
Don’t look now but the team that gutted their roster and started the year with zero meaningful signings is now even with us on points, has a game in hand, and has won 3 straight.

On paper we should trash them. But momentum all on their side at the moment.

[los sonadores]

At first I thought we didn’t ever recover from the pre game loss of Hedges… but we were just so slow and without anything much worth watching. We have to amount to more. That was pretty dreadful.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW, in the stadium, it was obvious they were working hard.

The "they did not care" thing is bogus.

We didn't move the ball fast enough. We had no real answer to their defensive pressure.

[Ultra & Proud]

FWIW, in the stadium, it was obvious they were working hard.

The "they did not care" thing is bogus.

We didn't move the ball fast enough. We had no real answer to their defensive pressure.

Some of our players look like either they don't care or are completely dejected. Either way, time for changes. Big ones.

[jloome]

FWIW, in the stadium, it was obvious they were working hard.

The "they did not care" thing is bogus.

We didn't move the ball fast enough. We had no real answer to their defensive pressure.

Their heads clearly aren't focused.

On the second goal, we left Carles Gil unmarked in the box, completely. We had FIVE defenders between the penalty spot adn the goalline and not one stepped up to challenge the cross or the shot.

Both goals were pretty horrendous.

Did anyone play well today? Richie and Sean Johnson, that's it.

[los sonadores]

I’m not convinced LI and Berna was wide forwards in a front 3 is ever going to be a winning formula. Feels like 1+1=1.5

Neither is particularly fast either. Just doesn’t feel as dynamic as it should be given each of their qualities.

Today looked too much like the end of last season with Insigne and Bernie doing a bit of each of their own thing and then trying to connect but poorly. There’s not enough fluidity or cohesion overall.

I care less about being at the top of the table than I care about playing some football worth watching. (Although when you do that in MLS you tend to win your share.)

[OgtheDim]

Not saying they played well.

Just saying the in stadium experience was different than the TV one.

We don't have enough defensive pressure on the ball.

I'm not sold on this necessarily working against decent teams. But it's not Armas level bad

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm not sold on this necessarily working against decent teams. But it's not Armas level bad

No but it isn't anywhere near good either.

[los sonadores]

They’ve been playing about a match a week with time to train and get things together. Now we get into two a week until into next month and we’re at only about a point a game winning percentage. It’ll be interesting to see if we somehow got it together with all the playing time or we just stay were we are.

If it feels like we’re wasting this roster it’s going to be difficult to watch.

[los sonadores]

Speaking of the rosters though… the league has really gotten better. NE loses its two best goal scorers and they still have Bobby Wood and Jozy.

[los sonadores]

Not saying they played well.

Just saying the in stadium experience was different than the TV one.

We don't have enough defensive pressure on the ball.

I'm not sold on this necessarily working against decent teams. But it's not Armas level bad

No, but I’ve watched us play lots of very lousy football over the years and even I wasn’t willing to watch that team.

I really don’t think there is any chance at all of Bradley being fired this season and so I’m not going to bother to call for it. But we have to play a hell of a lot better to keep watching TFC from being dispiriting.

[glaze]

I’ve defended Bradley for far too long. Tonight was ugly. The team just gave up.
This season may be lost already. Next season Bradley out

[Gringo Starr]

That first half was dreadful, stunned that no changes were made at the half. Every pass was telegraph, there is no creativity, it’s just shit to watch. They should just spend the week practicing how to pass. When LI gets a ball to run onto at full speed he looks dangerous but no one seems to be able to put a pass in front of him. One of the two times it happened tonight was off a Sj throw. It is pathetic.

[jloome]

That first half was dreadful, stunned that no changes were made at the half. Every pass was telegraph, there is no creativity, it’s just shit to watch. They should just spend the week practicing how to pass. When LI gets a ball to run onto at full speed he looks dangerous but no one seems to be able to put a pass in front of him. One of the two times it happened tonight was off a Sj throw. It is pathetic.

He had seven shots tonight and only put one on target.

Everyone had a shit statline except Coello, Laryea. Bernardeschi put three shots on but two of them were dribblers. MAK completed 92% of his passes but no long balls and only one through ball.

We were really bad. Impatient in offense, late and inattentive in defense. Demoralizing sort of loss.

[SenorDingDong]

I think we may have under estimated this one.NER has the best defensive record in the league with only 6 goals against. 4 of those came in one game when they were away to LAFC.So they have 2 goals conceded in 10 games... That's damn impressive and we ain't the only ones who can't score against them.

[MDH]

I don't think folks are completely wrong but there being no talk about the unbelievable pathetic own goal that completely changed the game and is basically unforgivable tells me that this board is dedicated to it's narrative. No matter what happens in the outcome it's mak, or somehow still mb or whoever you thought it was 6 weeks ago. Today, Rosted made such a big mistake it might have cost us a game. If you just take about your narratives, you're no better than the British. You don't want to be like the British, they're the worst, they havent even watched football in years. Just created narratives and talked about them over football matches.

[ag futbol]

I don't think folks are completely wrong but there being no talk about the unbelievable pathetic own goal that completely changed the game and is basically unforgivable tells me that this board is dedicated to it's narrative. No matter what happens in the outcome it's mak, or somehow still mb or whoever you thought it was 6 weeks ago. Today, Rosted made such a big mistake it might have cost us a game. If you just take about your narratives, you're no better than the British. You don't want to be like the British, they're the worst, they havent even watched football in years. Just created narratives and talked about them over football matches.
To be fair, the frustration expressed is less about this game and more about the overall direction of our team.

[MDH]

To be fair, the frustration expressed is less about this game and more about the overall direction of our team.

To be fair, that's not how they express themselves. They talk about the match, and how the same guy they were complaining about last week is the root of all our problems. Sorry man, it's just pointless narrative driven nothingness. I also don't like Bob and really dislike Bill. I have general problems with some choices being made. Yesterday a big part of why we lost is that during our best period of the match, when we were in the ascendancy and momentum was with us, our CB make an idiotic decision to try to beat a guy at the last man back. And he gave the other team a clean breakaway against the run of play, on a basic play that should have never happened at a professional level. The team never recovered. That's what happened in yesterday's football match. You wouldn't know that from being here's. 🤷

[jloome]

I don't think folks are completely wrong but there being no talk about the unbelievable pathetic own goal that completely changed the game and is basically unforgivable tells me that this board is dedicated to it's narrative. No matter what happens in the outcome it's mak, or somehow still mb or whoever you thought it was 6 weeks ago. Today, Rosted made such a big mistake it might have cost us a game. If you just take about your narratives, you're no better than the British. You don't want to be like the British, they're the worst, they havent even watched football in years. Just created narratives and talked about them over football matches.
I hate to burst your bubble but they were all shit. Yes, Rosted was the worst player on the pitch, but nobody has to lean on bias or predisposition to see how bad we were.

And going down by one does not decide a game. Laying the entire game on him is also a bullshit narrative; we had 70 minutes to get that goal back.

I admit I also find it frustrating that MAK is the immediate scapegoat for A lot of people. Most of the time he is not the problem.

But he had four bad giveaways yesterday and contributed very little going forward or back. Servania was even worse.

[Ultra & Proud]

To be fair, the frustration expressed is less about this game and more about the overall direction of our team.

This is true for me. I never went at MB, MAK, MacNaughton and said they should sit when things were terrible. This has been a lingering issue I brought up all year that we create no chances and we progress the ball too slow. The counter narrative is always "well the injuries" but Insigne is back, we have a 9 and we still create almost nothing. That's the frustration. I watch teams like Colorado, who are shit and have a way worse roster than us, push up the field at pace and cause problems. Last night's match was a perfect example. Their movement made things easier. We don't move so....

[MDH]

I hate to burst your bubble but they were all shit. Yes, Rosted was the worst player on the pitch, but nobody has to lean on bias or predisposition to see how bad we were.

And going down by one does not decide a game. Laying the entire game on him is also a bullshit narrative; we had 70 minutes to get that goal back.

I admit I also find it frustrating that MAK is the immediate scapegoat for A lot of people. Most of the time he is not the problem.

But he had four bad giveaways yesterday and contributed very little going forward or back. Servania was even worse.

You're just changing what I said to make it seem worse. Yesterday our CB literally gave away a goal. You would not know that for being here. That's it. Just letting everyone on the board know how deep into your narratives you are. You are a big part of that Insigne is a bust guy.

[los sonadores]

You're just changing what I said to make it seem worse. Yesterday our CB literally gave away a goal. You would not know that for being here. That's it. Just letting everyone on the board know how deep into your narratives you are. You are a big part of that Insigne is a bust guy.

I don’t know about the board’s narratives or not narratives but the narrative of the team itself was that they’d “turned the corner” last match and were ready to climb the standings. But we looked poor right from the start. I don’t think we recovered from losing Hedges and we lost him before the match. I don’t think anyone played well with the exception of our keeper and maybe Coello (who I thought was doing more or less everything that was expected of him). Even our coach said there was nothing positive to take away from this match.

[Ultra & Proud]

You're just changing what I said to make it seem worse. Yesterday our CB literally gave away a goal. You would not know that for being here. That's it. Just letting everyone on the board know how deep into your narratives you are. You are a big part of that Insigne is a bust guy.

I agree with JLoome here. Everyone was shit except for Johnson. Maybe Sappong but he didn't get enough clear chances. Your narrative seems to be that all is good except for one bone headed play. Not sure how you could have watched the other 91 minutes and not saw that we were terrible or how over the whole season we create next to nothing going forward. These are ongoing issues. Even against a terrible NYCFC who got it all wrong tactically and let us do exactly what we wanted, we only managed that one goal. We have some talented players so we do get goals but they're usually from individual brilliance or from that one time during a match we attack directly with pace.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Not what I was expecting; performance wise. Not so much about the loss, more for me about the next steps in individual efforts towards collective cohesiveness that was lacking. When is TFC going to turn that corner? Stewed on the matter, rather than make any immediate post match comment. Trying to brain through it; is it on the players, on the coach or on both? Got a headache. Not heathy, now, with today’s weather, just feeling a mix of disappointment, frustration, anger and despair in and for TFC.

[jloome]

I agree with JLoome here. Everyone was shit except for Johnson. Maybe Sappong but he didn't get enough clear chances. Your narrative seems to be that all is good except for one bone headed play. Not sure how you could have watched the other 91 minutes and not saw that we were terrible or how over the whole season we create next to nothing going forward. These are ongoing issues. Even against a terrible NYCFC who got it all wrong tactically and let us do exactly what we wanted, we only managed that one goal. We have some talented players so we do get goals but they're usually from individual brilliance or from that one time during a match we attack directly with pace.

Exactly.

Everyone has narratives, and they're not always right. Blaming MAK solely or Bob solely would be an incorrect narrative. But so is blaming Rosted solely.

When the narratives are annoying is when they literally don't match what's going on on the pitch. MAK gets excoriated here, despite being statistically our best midfielder this season.

But yesterday, there was no doubt we were shit. Sure, MDH, I'll give you that a bigger deal might be made of the first mistake as the catalyst.

But also, focusing on just that -- and Rosted has been pretty heavily criticized in other games, it's not like he gets nothing but love -- ignores the other 70 minutes of garbage.

Literally the only two players yesterday with a respectable stat line were Coello and Laryea.

WE HAD TWENTY SHOTS on net and didn't score a goal. The one goal caused by a boneheaded play was not the only reason we lost.


You are a big part of that Insigne is a bust guy.

This doesn't make any kind of sense so I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting the board's narratives, or mine personally, are somehow responsible for the fact that Lorenzo Insigne put one of seven shots on net? Or somehow we're altering his mood, his training somehow?

He's actually scoring at a higher rate from open play over his time here than Bernardeschi, who has more than half his goals from the spot.

But without a tactical system that they can play and fit in, one in which they're not trying to do everything themselves, they're not showing themselves particularly effective or dangerous. Teams double them up, and no one moves into support quickly enough to extract them. Even when t hey do, half the time the Italians ignore them and try to beat three guys on their own, and it doesn't work.

Neither is Seba with the ball, that seems a glaring reality. Massively technically skilled, and both woudl be massive producers in a good, team-based system. But this isn't it.

[Bushmancan]

^ Correction 20 Shots at net, 5 on and two were long range rollers from Bernie. We gave up an unfortunate goal, still like Rosted but he needs Hedges

They cut off the wings, made us play to the middle (we couldn’t). We were (are) too slow and got frustrated.

[Ultra & Proud]

Exactly.

Everyone has narratives, and they're not always right. Blaming MAK solely or Bob solely would be an incorrect narrative. But so is blaming Rosted solely.

Currently I won't totally come down on any player for errors. I don't think they've been set up to succeed and if anything, they're being directed to fight an uphill battle. Good managers, with controlled budgets, learn to examine the rosters they inherit and then develop a system to make that squad work like Gonzalez has done in SJ.

Granted, that Rosted move yesterday was like the fancy MacNaughton stuff that got him demoted him to the bench last season and it was terrible. Beyond that, all these passing errors and lack of ideas speak to us having a bunch of square pegs & round holes.

[MDH]

I agree with JLoome here. Everyone was shit except for Johnson. Maybe Sappong but he didn't get enough clear chances. Your narrative seems to be that all is good except for one bone headed play. Not sure how you could have watched the other 91 minutes and not saw that we were terrible or how over the whole season we create next to nothing going forward. These are ongoing issues. Even against a terrible NYCFC who got it all wrong tactically and let us do exactly what we wanted, we only managed that one goal. We have some talented players so we do get goals but they're usually from individual brilliance or from that one time during a match we attack directly with pace.

I'm not adding a narrative. I'm saying that no one talks about what happens on the pitch. And that continues to be true. Y'all are making weird assumptions that me thinking y'all need to watch the matches and not the say MAK 50 times a match or something similar, means that I think the team was good. Why would you think that, where, other than the narratives in your mind, did that happen? What I said was that after the match I came here to talk about the match. But that wasn't happening in the match thread. In fact the match thread was the same narrative driven nothingness that it often is, especially when we are poor. Smh.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm not adding a narrative. I'm saying that no one talks about what happens on the pitch. And that continues to be true. Y'all are making weird assumptions that me thinking y'all need to watch the matches and not the say MAK 50 times a match or something similar, means that I think the team was good. Why would you think that, where, other than the narratives in your mind, did that happen? What I said was that after the match I came here to talk about the match. But that wasn't happening in the match thread. In fact the match thread was the same narrative driven nothingness that it often is, especially when we are poor. Smh.

I see what your saying but the MAK thing is hopeless. I don't want to say a lot of Toronto sports fans are idiots but here we are. It seems the T.O way is to always have a scapegoat order selected so that there can always be blame assigned to that person. Now it's MAK because MB is injured. Really doesn't matter what he does in a match now or if we win or lose. Even on that match where he had a 97% pass completion percentage or therabouts, there were a bunch of people, not here but on other social media, pointing to the one or two missed passes he had. So there is no winning. It's the way here. I choose to ignore it because reality doesn't apply to this one particular part of Toronto sports culture (it's in all our sports too).

[jloome]

I see what your saying but the MAK thing is hopeless. I don't want to say a lot of Toronto sports fans are idiots but here we are. It seems the T.O way is to always have a scapegoat order selected so that there can always be blame assigned to that person. Now it's MAK because MB is injured. Really doesn't matter what he does in a match now or if we win or lose. Even on that match where he had a 97% pass completion percentage or therabouts, there were a bunch of people, not here but on other social media, pointing to the one or two missed passes he had. So there is no winning. It's the way here. I choose to ignore it because reality doesn't apply to this one particular part of Toronto sports culture (it's in all our sports too).

I posted in an anti-MAK thread on Reddit with his actual statistics, which still have him as one of best players on the weight of the season, but a lot of them already have him as the default "cause" of our woes, because some people need the most easily, broadly defined object to hate in order to feel secure in their own opinions.

Having said that, he was generally shit in this game. Got stripped multiple times, couldn't complete anything but short back passes. He didn't get much help, though.

[ensco]

I posted in a thread on Reddit…..


https://i.gifer.com/MWlK.gif

[jloome]

https://i.gifer.com/MWlK.gif

Yeah, I know, it's like I lobotomized myself or something.

Being stuck working at home is boring sometimes, dude. There's only so much football that can be watched.

[los sonadores]

I posted in an anti-MAK thread on Reddit with his actual statistics, which still have him as one of best players on the weight of the season, but a lot of them already have him as the default "cause" of our woes, because some people need the most easily, broadly defined object to hate in order to feel secure in their own opinions.

Having said that, he was generally shit in this game. Got stripped multiple times, couldn't complete anything but short back passes. He didn't get much help, though.

He was poor in this one. But even so he was the only player doing the post game media video thing. He speaks honestly and answers for his and the team’s mistakes. Almost every time I’ve heard him speak he mentions personally needing to be better and the struggle to do so. Not only he is a mature person with a good attitude but he has gotten better since he’s been here.

I don’t have a rah-rah, relentlessly positive personality but I think sometimes if fans back their team we get better results, especially when the will is there from the team. A team being composed only of individual human beings, that is. You have to wonder what’s wrong with people when they get down unreasonably on local stars. A form of jealousy/resentment and small mindedness, I suppose.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW…

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371868117909505

[Mr. Inbetween]

In the weeds… too much?

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371893820538882

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371918189420544

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371941518213125

[los sonadores]

In the weeds… too much?

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371893820538882

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371918189420544

https://twitter.com/GriffGraphs/status/1655371941518213125

The game (the world,,, life!) becoming so abstract as to become meaningless. This is nothing new but the last 20 years or so seem to have become especially good at this condition.

edit: no offence though, hah, one can learn from almost everything!

[jloome]

The game (the world,,, life!) becoming so abstract as to become meaningless. This is nothing new but the last 20 years or so seem to have become especially good at this condition.

edit: no offence though, hah, one can learn from almost everything!

Those passing flow charts are actually really telling. whether through design or defence, we were basically trapped passing sideways in our own end, and the ball only advanced laterally up the w ings. the centre of the park was lost completely. We did not advance with diagonal passing AT ALL, which seems nuts. Surely either the mids or Bob noticed this at some point?

But it's so complete I have a hard time seeing that as just defense actions. That feels like our plan was to shuttle it wide all the time, which is far too restrictive, especially when the ball never comes from the central midfielder, so there's never an angle to outlet to the winger when he's more advanced.

By contrast, New England just gave the ball to DeJuan Jones and he sprinted up the left side basically uninhibited by Bernie or Laryea, neither of whom, clearly, was playing a whole lot of defense.

Yikes.

New England barely had to break a sweat, based on those passing patterns. They just ran by us, which is why the actual number of passing lanes used is so low. By contrast, our map looks like a fucking engineering schematic.

[Canary10]

Those passing flow charts are actually really telling. whether through design or defence, we were basically trapped passing sideways in our own end, and the ball only advanced laterally up the w ings. the centre of the park was lost completely. We did not advance with diagonal passing AT ALL, which seems nuts. Surely either the mids or Bob noticed this at some point?

But it's so complete I have a hard time seeing that as just defense actions. That feels like our plan was to shuttle it wide all the time, which is far too restrictive, especially when the ball never comes from the central midfielder, so there's never an angle to outlet to the winger when he's more advanced.

By contrast, New England just gave the ball to DeJuan Jones and he sprinted up the left side basically uninhibited by Bernie or Laryea, neither of whom, clearly, was playing a whole lot of defense.

Yikes.

New England barely had to break a sweat, based on those passing patterns. They just ran by us, which is why the actual number of passing lanes used is so low. By contrast, our map looks like a fucking engineering schematic.

Also we're moving the ball mainly up the right. There was a stat saying that as well during the game. Insigne not getting involved enough. Probably why he dropped back into Michael Bradley's position at one point in the game.

[los sonadores]

Those passing flow charts are actually really telling. whether through design or defence, we were basically trapped passing sideways in our own end, and the ball only advanced laterally up the w ings. the centre of the park was lost completely. We did not advance with diagonal passing AT ALL, which seems nuts. Surely either the mids or Bob noticed this at some point?

But it's so complete I have a hard time seeing that as just defense actions. That feels like our plan was to shuttle it wide all the time, which is far too restrictive, especially when the ball never comes from the central midfielder, so there's never an angle to outlet to the winger when he's more advanced.

By contrast, New England just gave the ball to DeJuan Jones and he sprinted up the left side basically uninhibited by Bernie or Laryea, neither of whom, clearly, was playing a whole lot of defense.

Yikes.

New England barely had to break a sweat, based on those passing patterns. They just ran by us, which is why the actual number of passing lanes used is so low. By contrast, our map looks like a fucking engineering schematic.

That’s more or less how the game played out after the first 20 minutes. We almost always had the ball in front of their low block after attempting to get it to, or up, the wings very ineffectually and predictably. (Richie had space a few times but made poor final decisions and yes there was no defence on that side.) Coello, I think was passing forward from midfield but it was rare that our two strikers had any real chance to do anything with the ball.

[los sonadores]

Also we're moving the ball mainly up the right. There was a stat saying that as well during the game. Insigne not getting involved enough. Probably why he dropped back into Michael Bradley's position at one point in the game.

Insigne had the ball often, it seemed, but by the time it got to him he was not at all in an advantageous position. We were more direct on the right. It seemed like the tack taken in the 2nd half last week against the often narrow NYFC to get Richie loose was the main idea this time. And this time he tried to score directly.

[jloome]

That’s more or less how the game played out after the first 20 minutes. We almost always had the ball in front of their low block after attempting to get it to, or up, the wings very ineffectually and predictably. (Richie had space a few times but made poor final decisions and yes there was no defence on that side.) Coello, I think was passing forward from midfield but it was rare that our two strikers had any real chance to do anything with the ball.

Problematically, those maps show ATTEMPTS as well as completions, in the lighter shading of the arrows. We didn't even TRY to go through the middle. Coello was the only player with more than one long pass completed between the our end and the offensive zone, and none of the three midfielders moved the ball diagonally to avoid pressure.

That can only be by design. No player ignores every opportunity directly ahead of him unless he's trying to play to a plan. And whether he meant them to be completely restrictive or not, that's what happened.

[los sonadores]

Problematically, those maps show ATTEMPTS as well as completions, in the lighter shading of the arrows. We didn't even TRY to go through the middle. Coello was the only player with more than one long pass completed between the our end and the offensive zone, and none of the three midfielders moved the ball diagonally to avoid pressure.

That can only be by design. No player ignores every opportunity directly ahead of him unless he's trying to play to a plan. And whether he meant them to be completely restrictive or not, that's what happened.

Yep, I agree. That’s what it looked like and was. What it was suppose to look like I’m not sure. And yeah, what the two striker attempt was about I’m not sure either. Maybe that was a failed attempt make things more central and probably not tried in training. Actually, it would be worth watching again with this stuff in mind… if it weren’t so gawd awful. I don’t think I could stomach it again.

[Joe Kool]

We went through a time when the only plan we seemed to have was get the ball to Giovinco. Every team knew it and double teamed Giovinco and we didn't seem to have a plan B at that time so the offense died. It almost feels like the same situation now with the Italians and sometimes we have players making riskier pass attempts to get them the ball versus the straight forward play to a non-Italian closer to them. Even Berna tries at least a couple times per game to pass from one side of the field all the way across to Insigne. Last game it went well over the advertising board too when he tried. Not even close. The only thing I was thinking of is does he have no confidence in the players around him....aside from Laryea who he will pass to regularly.

[jloome]

We went through a time when the only plan we seemed to have was get the ball to Giovinco. Every team knew it and double teamed Giovinco and we didn't seem to have a plan B at that time so the offense died. It almost feels like the same situation now with the Italians and sometimes we have players making riskier pass attempts to get them the ball versus the straight forward play to a non-Italian closer to them. Even Berna tries at least a couple times per game to pass from one side of the field all the way across to Insigne. Last game it went well over the advertising board too when he tried. Not even close. The only thing I was thinking of is does he have no confidence in the players around him....aside from Laryea who he will pass to regularly.

Yeah, you're right. By about the two-thirds point of the games against Philly and New England, they started looking for each other and ignoring the middle.

[ag futbol]

We went through a time when the only plan we seemed to have was get the ball to Giovinco. Every team knew it and double teamed Giovinco and we didn't seem to have a plan B at that time so the offense died. It almost feels like the same situation now with the Italians and sometimes we have players making riskier pass attempts to get them the ball versus the straight forward play to a non-Italian closer to them. Even Berna tries at least a couple times per game to pass from one side of the field all the way across to Insigne. Last game it went well over the advertising board too when he tried. Not even close. The only thing I was thinking of is does he have no confidence in the players around him....aside from Laryea who he will pass to regularly.
You raise a good point though re: Giovinco. Individual brilliance is what Giovinco did and is what made him one of the best (if not the best) MLS players ever.

As good as LI and Berna are, they aren’t really the “create something from nothing” type. And don’t get me wrong, I think they are both brilliant and highly capable footballers with all around qualities far better than Gio (their careers would say as much). But this is MLS and where the average player sometimes isn’t much and rosters are thin, should we not have at least one guy somewhere on this roster who can do it all himself and has a bit more pace?