Insigne thread.

[Oldtimer]

Not sold on him. Unpopular opinion? I think we've given him enough time to show that he's a net negative given that he's taking up a DP slot and the team looks worse with him in the lineup.

The problem when the president buys a "big name" instead of letting the manager choose someone.

[tfcfans]

Why would anyone be sold on him so far ? This is common sense - clearly Berna has been the much more influential signing so far — we paid the guy to be one of the best players in the league and he simply hasn’t shown that yet - why would anyone be sold on him? If he’s not playing at least 24 games this year and ending up at a 10G and 10A kind of season than he simply isn’t worth the DP slot we are paying him for - we fixed the back line, we need someone up front to make things happen. I get that we need a “scorer” but Berna has figured out how to link up with Lareya to make things happen - Insigne has done what exactly to make everyone around him better ?

[JoesphNdo]

Has he played 90 total minutes this season? Has he been fit for any but the first 30? I know we're fucking awful today but it's a stretch to say we've given enough time to a player whose played maybe 90 minutes over 3 games and been fit for 30 of them

[MDH]

Not sold on him. Unpopular opinion? I think we've given him enough time to show that he's a net negative given that he's taking up a DP slot and the team looks worse with him in the lineup.

The problem when the president buys a "big name" instead of letting the manager choose someone.

He's a great player. The players around him aren't as good. He's played almost no time, less than 100 minutes as of the timing of this post. You need to calm down about this my guy, we've heard you. The problem with this team is Bob Bradley and those who empower him.

[Amir.]

should be playing in the midfield in this team...there just isnt enough quality to get enough balls to him and bernardeschi...they cant be both playing very high

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, not time for this discussion yet, and certainly not during this game....

[OgtheDim]

And that goal there is the answer for me....

[Fort York Redcoat]

There's a goal. Let's have a Mista value dollar to him so far.

That said I wouldn't wish his bad luck he's had on anyone.

Still, he wears the contract he signed and that effects the balance of this team.

AND furthermore, why does our back line look like this is preseason needing time to gel? These aren't the kids we played in the last couple years.

[JoesphNdo]

A goal and (not that it's saying much) by far the best Toronto fc player on the pitch today the first time this season he plays more than half an hour. Maybe we shouldn't write him off just yet

[jloome]

I don't think it's him, I think it's Bob's system.

We have too many players who have specific weaknesses in their game, quite a few of them involving defense. The system has to adjust to the players in this league.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't think it's him, I think it's Bob's system.

We have too many players who have specific weaknesses in their game, quite a few of them involving defense. The system has to adjust to the players in this league.

Yup. That's how I see it

Bob has us set up to fail or at least make it as hard as possible to get results.

[ag futbol]

Not sold on him. Unpopular opinion? I think we've given him enough time to show that he's a net negative given that he's taking up a DP slot and the team looks worse with him in the lineup.

The problem when the president buys a "big name" instead of letting the manager choose someone.
I’m not sold. I also think the combination of LI and Berna as DP’s is kind of stupid. Both those guys have average pace and it doesn’t exactly feel like much synergy when they play together.

I do wonder if a better coach could get more out of this team and LI in particular. Bradley’s football is too narrow minded and rigid.

[Auzzy]

I think Insigne was the wrong DP, found in the wrong way.

However, now he's ours. The next big problems came after the signing: not finding him the proper supporting cast, and not coaching and playing the team in a way that gets the most out of him and everyone else.

Against a team like Philly, you see there's a MASSIVE void in the centre of TFC's midfield and front line. MAK is incredibly hot and cold, and not very fast. The fact that he was not pulled after his giveaway for the fourth goal, after a number of previous similar screw-ups, shows us that we're incredibly weak in that area, and/or that BB is blind. (Or is BB blinded by his belief in himself?)

Osorio is very good, but he's never been very fast, and now he's 30. Seeing him trying to track back on the third goal against was telling. He should be playing with a couple of young dynamic players up the centre, not MAK and...

Michael Bradley. Enough said. He would also be OK with a couple of young fast workhorses around him, but not with the above two.

The even bigger problem is at centre forward of course. Trying to put Insigne up there against a team like Philly is a testament to failure. Of course he didn't spend much time at CF in the first half, but that left a big void up front. Almost zero pressure on Philly's defence helped them to control the game all over the park.

Can they please hire a running coach for Perruzza (and others)? It's amazing to see someone run so un-athletically at age 22. It affects everything he's trying to do up there, and again applies minimal pressure on the opposing defence, while opening no space for Insigne and Berna. Our other young backup forward, Ayo, has also become very unathletic. You see plenty of young cheap forwards around MLS: even if they aren't incredibly gifted, they create pressure and havoc in the middle, open up room for everyone else, and get into spaces where they can walk in or tap in a goal.

I can't even remember who our top centre forwards were supposed to be this season. Wasn't it Diomande and someone else? What a freaking disaster.

TFC's has lots of talented players, especially Insigne and Berna, but too many of them are best on the sides of the pitch. We have depth there and can make meaningful subs. But with the spine mostly empty, and no quick movement up or down the middle, it becomes quite easy to defend against the wing play, and to put too much pressure on our central defence.

Coello and others offered some meaningful contributions in the middle. There is hope, if BB can see what is needed, and if they have a bit more turnover in the summer.

All that being said, Insigne had two other glorious chances that a player on his salary NEEDS to bury. That would have totally changed the complexion of the game. Perhaps a bit of rust after his layoff? I hope so.

[Oldtimer]

I'm NOT saying that Insigne isn't a good player, he is. A very good player.

Bob Bradley has a fixed system, if he's allowed to choose his own players he gets guys to fit his system and that's how he gets a winning side.

The problem is that no way does Insigne fit his system. He was brought in for marketing reasons and that's on Manning. (Berna was also brought in for marketing reasons but he does fit Bob's system).

I'm not sold on this experiment. Either you build everything around Insigne (including a team and a coach that can work with him) or you replace Insigne with someone who fits the system.

Roster construction is number one in a salary cap league. That's why we've struggled post Bez, we have essentially a marketing guy (Manning) making roster decisions.

So time to get some value for Insigne by selling him, I've seen enough.

[Oldtimer]

Some here might prefer to go for the option of keeping Insigne and dumping Bradley and Manning. I acknowledge that might also work. However be prepared for 2 more years of pain as the roster gets rebuilt around Insigne and yet another coach's vision. Getting rid of Insigne is faster and there are DPs who would fit Bradley's system.

[ag futbol]

I think the big issue here is that a huge chunk of our decisions seem to be based on familiarity / marketing (family ties? *gasp*) rather than a true assessment of todays MLS and what it takes to win.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I am not convinced that Bob Bradley is a winner in todays league. The whole setup feels like a cliche movie where the band gets back together and does it one more time.

Don’t care about splitting hairs of Manning vs Bradley responsibilities and for what signing. Manning is on replacement coach number 2, he succeeds or dies here. Bob is presiding over a second straight season of poor performance and looks very inflexible and pretty tone deaf.

They both have enough hair on them where this either turns around or get pink slips. Pretty simple IMO.

[Oldtimer]

I think Insigne was the wrong DP, found in the wrong way.


You're whole post was excellent, you summed up many of our problems well.

[JosephFC]

I think the big issue here is that a huge chunk of our decisions seem to be based on familiarity / marketing (family ties? *gasp*) rather than a true assessment of todays MLS and what it takes to win.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I am not convinced that Bob Bradley is a winner in todays league. The whole setup feels like a cliche movie where the band gets back together and does it one more time.

Don’t care about splitting hairs of Manning vs Bradley responsibilities and for what signing. Manning is on replacement coach number 2, he succeeds or dies here. Bob is presiding over a second straight season of poor performance and looks very inflexible and pretty tone deaf.

They both have enough hair on them where this either turns around or get pink slips. Pretty simple IMO.
I am of the opinion that Insigne isn't even close to our problems , we watched last night as our midfield was out run and simply could not move the ball up the field to Insigne and Berna when possessing the ball. How do we get midfield pieces ? Would there be any takers for Oso's contract in the league? Yes I am suggesting simply give him away. Next I don't see Michael Bradley here next year, can we somehow mutually terminate his contract? This will free up some much needed money and a DP spot.

[jloome]

I think Insigne was the wrong DP, found in the wrong way.

However, now he's ours. The next big problems came after the signing: not finding him the proper supporting cast, and not coaching and playing the team in a way that gets the most out of him and everyone else.

Against a team like Philly, you see there's a MASSIVE void in the centre of TFC's midfield and front line. MAK is incredibly hot and cold, and not very fast. The fact that he was not pulled after his giveaway for the fourth goal, after a number of previous similar screw-ups, shows us that we're incredibly weak in that area, and/or that BB is blind. (Or is BB blinded by his belief in himself?)

Osorio is very good, but he's never been very fast, and now he's 30. Seeing him trying to track back on the third goal against was telling. He should be playing with a couple of young dynamic players up the centre, not MAK and...

Michael Bradley. Enough said. He would also be OK with a couple of young fast workhorses around him, but not with the above two.

The even bigger problem is at centre forward of course. Trying to put Insigne up there against a team like Philly is a testament to failure. Of course he didn't spend much time at CF in the first half, but that left a big void up front. Almost zero pressure on Philly's defence helped them to control the game all over the park.

Can they please hire a running coach for Perruzza (and others)? It's amazing to see someone run so un-athletically at age 22. It affects everything he's trying to do up there, and again applies minimal pressure on the opposing defence, while opening no space for Insigne and Berna. Our other young backup forward, Ayo, has also become very unathletic. You see plenty of young cheap forwards around MLS: even if they aren't incredibly gifted, they create pressure and havoc in the middle, open up room for everyone else, and get into spaces where they can walk in or tap in a goal.

I can't even remember who our top centre forwards were supposed to be this season. Wasn't it Diomande and someone else? What a freaking disaster.

TFC's has lots of talented players, especially Insigne and Berna, but too many of them are best on the sides of the pitch. We have depth there and can make meaningful subs. But with the spine mostly empty, and no quick movement up or down the middle, it becomes quite easy to defend against the wing play, and to put too much pressure on our central defence.

Coello and others offered some meaningful contributions in the middle. There is hope, if BB can see what is needed, and if they have a bit more turnover in the summer.

All that being said, Insigne had two other glorious chances that a player on his salary NEEDS to bury. That would have totally changed the complexion of the game. Perhaps a bit of rust after his layoff? I hope so.

So much this. Our central midfield is just not quick or dynamic enough, and Bernadeschi and Insigne are both exceptional players within the limits of their athleticism. Neither has the pace Seba had at his peak, so they can't tear teams apart single-handedly. They're just exceptional TEAM players, but we don't have a cohesive team, because the midfield can't compete, not in this system.

I don't think a new manager has to take two years to fix anything; if they're willing to pay for Martino or someone of that ilk -- a world-class manager, basically -- they'll get an immediate bump (the new manager bump) because that manager will simplify what they're doing and spent a period "purging" the over-instruction and mandated shit, before expanding outward tactically to accomodate the best of the players he have.

He won't come in with a fixed "system" and demand everyone play to it. That keeps getting shown up as a mistake again and again in the modern era.

There's a common thread between great managers and it's probably one of the elements Tim Bezbachenko recognized in Wilfried Nancy: their players would walk through walls for them, would go to battle for them. I don't get that sense from Bob. I just don't.

[rydermike]

They both have enough hair on them where this either turns around or get pink slips. Pretty simple IMO.

No they don't.

Bad joke. I'll see myself out

[Marcus]

Just curious but does Insigne even want to stay past this season? I haven't read anything to imply one way or the other but with the Euro next year is there a need to play for a European side to play for Italy? Even if it's not a requirement if things aren't going well for player or club it would be a convenient way to save face for all??

[Mr. Inbetween]

I love the absurdity of social media… Lollo and Pep… related?

https://twitter.com/aXtrips/status/1368469560043601929

[ensco]

I have never been sold on him. It's because of his deal, which does and will warp everything.

I thought the rumours of his signing had to be wrong, because it just couldn’t be true, they couldn’t possibly be committing $75M to anybody, let alone somebody this unknown ... could they? (Not looking to re-have the debate about how famous he is.. he is well known to Serie A followers, absolutely, but that's it, and even then, it's players from the big 3 clubs that really move the marketing needle in Serie A… if you disagree, fine, it's a free country)

Even if he is a fine player for a year or two, as is likely - but hasn’t really happened yet, for a bunch of reasons, sure- I mean, how hard is that to find? He will never be worth even 20% of what they paid for him.

Which creates problems for the manager. Which creates problems for the player. Which creates problems for teammates. Which creates problems for all of us, who get to think about what else they could have done with the money…

I am sure he is a fine person, a good footballer, I hope he comes to like it here. I know he is on the winning end of the single worst contract in MLS history, one that is so bad that I can’t even see second place in the distance from it.

[NK Toronto]

I have never been sold on him. It's because of his deal, which does and will warp everything.

I thought the rumours of his signing had to be wrong, because it just couldn’t be true, they couldn’t possibly be committing $75M to anybody, let alone somebody this unknown ... could they? (Not looking to re-have the debate about how famous he is.. he is well known to Serie A followers, absolutely, but that's it, and even then, it's players from the big 3 clubs that really move the marketing needle in Serie A… if you disagree, fine, it's a free country)

Even if he is a fine player for a year or two, as is likely - but hasn’t really happened yet, for a bunch of reasons, sure- I mean, how hard is that to find? He will never be worth even 20% of what they paid for him.

Which creates problems for the manager. Which creates problems for the player. Which creates problems for teammates. Which creates problems for all of us, who get to think about what else they could have done with the money…

I am sure he is a fine person, a good footballer, I hope he comes to like it here. I know he is on the winning end of the single worst contract in MLS history, one that is so bad that I can’t even see second place in the distance from it.

Couldn't agree more.

This signing speaks volumes about the limited size of the TFC fan base. Insigne was signed to sell tickets to the casual fan and create excitement around the club. This was never about sound roster building.

[Richard]

I love the absurdity of social media… Lollo and Pep… related?

https://twitter.com/aXtrips/status/1368469560043601929

I dont think I can unsee this. :smilielol5:

[ag futbol]

I have never been sold on him. It's because of his deal, which does and will warp everything.

I thought the rumours of his signing had to be wrong, because it just couldn’t be true, they couldn’t possibly be committing $75M to anybody, let alone somebody this unknown ... could they? (Not looking to re-have the debate about how famous he is.. he is well known to Serie A followers, absolutely, but that's it, and even then, it's players from the big 3 clubs that really move the marketing needle in Serie A… if you disagree, fine, it's a free country)

Even if he is a fine player for a year or two, as is likely - but hasn’t really happened yet, for a bunch of reasons, sure- I mean, how hard is that to find? He will never be worth even 20% of what they paid for him.

Which creates problems for the manager. Which creates problems for the player. Which creates problems for teammates. Which creates problems for all of us, who get to think about what else they could have done with the money…

I am sure he is a fine person, a good footballer, I hope he comes to like it here. I know he is on the winning end of the single worst contract in MLS history, one that is so bad that I can’t even see second place in the distance from it.
Call me crazy but for 75 million dollars we could (probably) be rid of the argos once and for all, MLSE could move them elsewhere and BMO field could transform into what it should be: the true SSS for the nats (men’s and women’s) as well as TFC plus Toronto’s women’s team. Maybe I’m petty but that’s what I’d spend it on.

[Richard]

Call me crazy but for 75 million dollars we could (probably) be rid of the argos once and for all, MLSE could move them elsewhere and BMO field could transform into what it should be: the true SSS for the nats (men’s and women’s) as well as TFC plus Toronto’s women’s team. Maybe I’m petty but that’s what I’d spend it on.

You expect too much from this ownership, they have even less incentive to spend money going forward if the Apple deal is a success.

TFC is not even the third wheel, just being kept around because of MLS franchise valuations, otherwise not that far off from the Argo's.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Daje Napoli! Daje!… C’mon Napoli! C’mon!

[benito]

Party will be delayed for a few days. Nice tying goal by Salernitana towards the end of the game.

[Bushmancan]

I have to be honest the player that i saw on the field last night was full of fire and compete, a great choice for the captain arm band. He also supported his team mates when some of the service to him wasn't quite right. I was not overly impressed with new York but having Insigne on the left and Fede on the right with a target potential in the middle, changed the game completely. His trajectory here in the fans eyes will only go up with a few more solid outings.

He was really engaging to get the crowd into the game last night, especially around the 88th minute.

[vince93]

I have to be honest the player that i saw on the field last night was full of fire and compete, a great choice for the captain arm band. He also supported his team mates when some of the service to him wasn't quite right. I was not overly impressed with new York but having Insigne on the left and Fede on the right with a target potential in the middle, changed the game completely. His trajectory here in the fans eyes will only go up with a few more solid outings.

He was really engaging to get the crowd into the game last night, especially around the 88th minute.

Insigne was by far the best player on the pitch last night, I love Bernie but he is not a better player then Insigne. Last night might have been the first time Insigne was at full health since he arrived at TFC.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Party will be delayed for a few days. Nice tying goal by Salernitana towards the end of the game.

Yes and yes.

‘ ‘O’Ciuccio’ e ferito ma non e mourt!’… ‘ ‘Napoli/nickname’ is wounded but not dead!’. They will win The Scudetto/Shield; Italian SerieA Championship.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The ‘curse’ of the Leafs not getting past the first round in about twenty years has been highlighted in a few posts recently; including by myself. Well, in Italy’s SerieA, in about the last thirty years, since Napoli last took the title, the Maradonna era, their championship has been won essentially by two cities, either Torino, with Juventus and Milan with, AC or Inter… except for two years; then by Rome with Lazio and Roma. Those three cities are the three wealthiest of Italy; 1/Milan, 2/Rome, and 3/Turin. It is good for calcio/football/soccer that such glory is deservingly spread.

[SenorDingDong]

Insigne was by far the best player on the pitch last night, I love Bernie but he is not a better player then Insigne. Last night might have been the first time Insigne was at full health since he arrived at TFC.

Let him keep the armband if he's going to play like that!

[James17930]

Insigne was by far the best player on the pitch last night, I love Bernie but he is not a better player then Insigne. Last night might have been the first time Insigne was at full health since he arrived at TFC.

Can we please stop comparing LI and FB? Not everything has to be 'one is better than the other.'

They're both great and awesome and having both of them on the field together is fantastic for us. That's it.

[Ultra & Proud]

Can we please stop comparing LI and FB? Not everything has to be 'one is better than the other.'

They're both great and awesome and having both of them on the field together is fantastic for us. That's it.
This is true. Who cares who is better or who makes how much money.

Bottom line is that with a healthy Insigne out there with Bernardeschi we're a much, much better team. Add in the Sappong factor and I think we created more chances in that last match than a few of our previous 9 combined.

The guy is good. Be happy he is here and motivated.

[ensco]

How is he only showing on the books at $7.5M?

Discuss.

[spe18]

How is he only showing on the books at $7.5M?

Discuss.

But which books? The PA's books, or TFC/MLS' books? :)

[MikeForbes]

How is he only showing on the books at $7.5M?

Discuss.

My assumption would be he got a massive signing bonus.

[jloome]

How is he only showing on the books at $7.5M?

Discuss.

Several different possibilities off the top of my head.

One, the original $15M leaked to Romano was for a two-year deal plus two option years, for a total contract value of about $30M US, not the assumed original $64M (technically never confirmed by anyone). That's a quite typical MLS deal structure, and the amounts would fit.

Two, they've amortized it over four years and intend to pay him a massive back end.

Three, he was paid $15M for just half of last year, allowing them the equivalent amount of salary relief this year. This seems most likely.

What won't be missing are massive "bonuses", as they have to be included in the "guaranteed compensation" heading of the salary guide, part of their deal with the association.

[spe18]

Three, he was paid $15M for just half of last year, allowing them the equivalent amount of salary relief this year. This seems most likely.



In this scenario, how much is would the pay be each year?

i.e. year 1 (2022) - half year is $15 million
year 2 (2023)?
year 3 (2024)?
year 4 (2025)?
year 5 (2026 - presuming he's here until the year the world cup is hosted here)?

[jloome]

In this scenario, how much is would the pay be each year?

i.e. year 1 (2022) - half year is $15 million
year 2 (2023)?
year 3 (2024)?
year 4 (2025)?
year 5 (2026 - presuming he's here until the year the world cup is hosted here)?

Without knowing what the total value is, no way to say. But if it's the $64M total, it could be any number of ways. I know the league frowns on backloading deals. It could be something like 15, 7.5, 15, 15, 7.5.

I think it's more likely the original deal was a two-year figure. It's still double what Napoli were offering him and guaranteed until age 35, a deal no on in Europe would've come close to matching.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I participated in the whole gross vs. net, impossible vs possible, community discussion/debate involving his supposed salary. And still IDK. Maybe, it’s just a case of Occam’s Razor. Whatever Insigne is being paid was enough-more than any other clubs offered outside of SerieA for him to sign with TFC, yet enough-less than the irrationale/outrageous (for a MLS business model) suggestions being publicized? I anticipate ‘those facts’ will eventually become known. Until then, I wait.

[leedsandTFC]

i think the salary reported last season was 14 M, but MLSPA reports annualized salaries (pls correct me if I'm wrong), so likely would have cost 7 M to the budget.

there are probably off the books expenses too not counted here too (reported that they were going to give him a house, etc).

there are also whispers that MLSPA has previously underreported salaries at the top end of the league, tho.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Insigne. Hope he's healthy. Hope he'll be worth it. Won't know till the end of the season. Not yet though.

[Richard]

i think the salary reported last season was 14 M, but MLSPA reports annualized salaries (pls correct me if I'm wrong), so likely would have cost 7 M to the budget.

there are probably off the books expenses too not counted here too (reported that they were going to give him a house, etc).

there are also whispers that MLSPA has previously underreported salaries at the top end of the league, tho.

Nothing in MLS is legitimate, it's all smoke an mirrors.

I suspect they are grossly underreporting Ingsige's salary because of the inflation it causes.

Agent's will look at TFC and ask for huge sums of money. MLS does not want what TFC did to become the norm.

[khso11]

All the things that people think Giovinco would be if he came back is slowly showing on Insigne. "He's gonna be slow", "he won't be able to score anymore", "he would be injury prone", "he's gonna be overpaid".....

I hope Lorenzo bounce back soon, it's so sad and frustrating to see him play like he's never on the same page. He keeps trying, he is working hard but nothing is working out. He's a great leader, the right guy to wear the armband, I feel bad that he is put into this dumpster fire. 10 months ago, whenever him and Berna gets the ball, BMO would be excited to see what magic they'll pull out next. Now, everyone is just anticipating a backwards pass or an horrendous touch.

People will compare him to Seba, it is gonna be part of it. I expected way more from Insigne than what he is showing right now. If the team keeps taking Ls, he will get a lot of the blame even if he doesn't deserve it. Right now is the time for him to start coming back from this bad form.

[SenorDingDong]

All the things that people think Giovinco would be if he came back is slowly showing on Insigne. "He's gonna be slow", "he won't be able to score anymore", "he would be injury prone", "he's gonna be overpaid".....

I hope Lorenzo bounce back soon, it's so sad and frustrating to see him play like he's never on the same page. He keeps trying, he is working hard but nothing is working out. He's a great leader, the right guy to wear the armband, I feel bad that he is put into this dumpster fire. 10 months ago, whenever him and Berna gets the ball, BMO would be excited to see what magic they'll pull out next. Now, everyone is just anticipating a backwards pass or an horrendous touch.

People will compare him to Seba, it is gonna be part of it. I expected way more from Insigne than what he is showing right now. If the team keeps taking Ls, he will get a lot of the blame even if he doesn't deserve it. Right now is the time for him to start coming back from this bad form.


He's looked much better then Berna for a few games now but Berna always gets a free pass.

[khso11]

I won't be giving Berna a free pass, he seemed very lost the last few games. Always half a step behind, hesitant on his moves (vs. NYRB he had an opportunity to do his signature outside foot cross to an unmarked Akinola in the box but he hesitated), and misplacing his passes. Maybe he is playing with an injury, I don't know, nobody knows. But people are giving him a free pass (for now) maybe for the kind of person he is, he expresses his passion positively to the fans from the beginning.

[stevep]

Lorenzo (shoot it right at the keeper) Insigne

It takes a special talent to do that every shot

[Fort York Redcoat]

We have the top that we want and still no goals. Goals against we expect but last night was surely a night for individuals to shine with goal scoring.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not going to even try to defend our DPs, or any players really, but the reality is that none of them have been set up to succeed.

Every match looks like the first preseason matches where different lineups and tactics are tested and nobody is quite sure where they should be or what they should be doing.

[SenorDingDong]

Lorenzo (shoot it right at the keeper) Insigne

It takes a special talent to do that every shot

I had no idea why he hit that with his left foot. Should have done this with his right. Angle was the same.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlMRDJmZAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlMRDJmZAI

[portu]

Insigne and Fede have regressed - you could argue that for most of our signings under BB.

Not fair to hold Insigne to the fire, more at play here probably.

[jloome]

Insigne and Fede have regressed - you could argue that for most of our signings under BB.

Not fair to hold Insigne to the fire, more at play here probably.

Whether he’s the right fit or not, he’s getting league-leading money and is the worst-shooting forward in MLS. It’s somewhat fair.

[JoesphNdo]

Whether he’s the right fit or not, he’s getting league-leading money and is the worst-shooting forward in MLS. It’s somewhat fair.

Yeah there's elements of both but I definitely do think the fact that we're 0 in 3 under bob in getting the best out of DPs is a factor, too. The Italians are unknowns but pozuelo was former league MVP. I think there's issues on both sides here, we need more from insigine but management also needs to use him and Bernie better

[SoccMan2]

Giovinco made an impact right from the start, he was the kind of player that made things happen almost every time he touched the ball. Insigne looks slow in every aspect of the game , it’s getting very hard to watch this guy right now it’s embarrassing actually. Giovinco was basically a bench player in Italy , Insigne was a starter and star player for Napoli a team that was always one of the top teams in Italy while he played there. Giovinco was barely an Italian national team player while Insigne was basically a mainstay with the Italian national team and was a main player on Italy’s Euro Championship winning team. This guy needs to step it up he is an embarrassment right now , moreover Bernadeschi is not any better constantly losing the ball and constantly dribbling into opposing players and losing the ball . These guys were brought here to put bums in the seats but looking at the crowds lately they are one of the reasons why people are staying away !

[stevep]

Giovinco made an impact right from the start, he was the kind of player that made things happen almost every time he touched the ball. Insigne looks slow in every aspect of the game , it’s getting very hard to watch this guy right now it’s embarrassing actually. Giovinco was basically a bench player in Italy , Insigne was a starter and star player for Napoli a team that was always one of the top teams in Italy while he played there. Giovinco was barely an Italian national team player while Insigne was basically a mainstay with the Italian national team and was a main player on Italy’s Euro Championship winning team. This guy needs to step it up he is an embarrassment right now , moreover Bernadeschi is not any better constantly losing the ball and constantly dribbling into opposing players and losing the ball . These guys were brought here to put bums in the seats but looking at the crowds lately they are one of the reasons why people are staying away !
Brilliant marketing strategy.
Absolutely brilliant con
Suckered so many people

[Fort York Redcoat]

So at what point do we as Toronto supporters get credit for Napolis Scudetto?

Jk but this move has done the absolute opposite of its intention.

Remember the Napoli fanfare on the signing? So little of that excitement has been transferred to new support of our local side.

[spe18]

How is he only showing on the books at $7.5M?

Discuss.

Now going back to this original question, I think we now have our answer, per the explosive article on The Athletic.

The PA didn't include Insigne's marketing deal in its figures. :)

I somehow suspected the PA didn't list the entire amount that he might be getting paid.

Actually, I'd be interested to know if this so called "marketing deal" is with tfc itself ;)

https://theathletic.com/4555769/2023/05/26/toronto-fc-insigne-bernardeschi-bradley-mls/

[PizzaEatingYeti]

https://theathletic.com/4555769/2023/05/26/toronto-fc-insigne-bernardeschi-bradley-mls/

That article is behind a paywall, except the first part. Thay maybe the most some 1/4 of the whole article.

Can someone post the whole article here?
Thanks in advance!

Edit: Never mind, I have read it.

[Mr. Inbetween]

This!!! Absolutely this! She is opportunistic; trying way too hard. Even if the Italians do dislike one another, and most interactions suggest otherwise, they are professional colleagues. Really National Enquirer nonsense; tabloid journo level reporting. Shameful.

https://twitter.com/DavidBernardi7/status/1662645322278113280

[JoesphNdo]

This!!! Absolutely this! She is opportunistic; trying way too hard. Even if the Italians do dislike one another, and most interactions suggest otherwise, they are professional colleagues. Really National Enquirer nonsense; tabloid journo level reporting. Shameful.

https://twitter.com/DavidBernardi7/status/1662645322278113280

Didn't the athletic report the same thing?

People here also tried to call her out for saying insigne didn't want to work with bob

Considering all the absolute random twitter accounts we post as sources of news, I think she's been vindicated pretty well this week, no?

[OgtheDim]

If anybody can find a clip of that 30 seconds in the second half extra time where LI put on a show about controlling the ball - THAT was amazing.

[ag futbol]

Didn't the athletic report the same thing?

People here also tried to call her out for saying insigne didn't want to work with bob

Considering all the absolute random twitter accounts we post as sources of news, I think she's been vindicated pretty well this week, no?
Yeah, I mean for all the squawk of said Twitter posters they’ve offered zero evidence to the contrary.

And as you said, the Athletic is essentially reporting the same thing Kyle is so why would anyone think they have backup in calling her reporting “fake news”?

[Mr. Inbetween]

Didn't the athletic report the same thing? People here also tried to call her out for saying insigne didn't want to work with bob Considering all the absolute random twitter accounts we post as sources of news, I think she's been vindicated pretty well this week, no?

Yes. The Athletic did report something similar. Though we could argue over a parsing of words from, IIUC, 'did not get along' to 'hated each other'. I am having a lot of trouble with the inconsistencies and the incongruousness of significant aspects of the story; within the very same article itself and not just against outside published counters. For instance, again IIUC, the article also suggests in contradiction BM 'said that Insigne helped recruit Bernardeschi' I am one of those that would be guilty, appreciate your inclusion of the we, of posting random twitter accounts as sources of news. Yet, given her national/global Apple platform I am not so sure that still vindicates her pretty well since she indicates 'that was very well known in the media (and) that was very well known in Italy with the national team'. I am having trouble finding any such social media references from 'before' the Italians arrived to TFC. More over if that information was so pervasive why did no one post anywhere that notion. In contrast, IIRC, I believe there is a short video clip of Lollo and Fede celebrating/partying together with the Euro-Cup. I also remembered this image from over 5 years ago (March 2016?)

https://www.vesuviolive.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Insigne-Nazionale.jpg

[Canary10]

Yeah, I mean for all the squawk of said Twitter posters they’ve offered zero evidence to the contrary.

And as you said, the Athletic is essentially reporting the same thing Kyle is so why would anyone think they have backup in calling her reporting “fake news”?

She was wrong about Insigne travelling to Austin and not starting because of a blow up with Bob.

[JoesphNdo]

Yes. The Athletic did report something similar. Though we could argue over a parsing of words from, IIUC, 'did not get along' to 'hated each other'. I am having a lot of trouble with the inconsistencies and the incongruousness of significant aspects of the story; within the very same article itself and not just against outside published counters. For instance, again IIUC, the article also suggests in contradiction BM 'said that Insigne helped recruit Bernardeschi' I am one of those that would be guilty, appreciate your inclusion of the we, of posting random twitter accounts as sources of news. Yet, given her national/global Apple platform I am not so sure that still vindicates her pretty well since she indicates 'that was very well known in the media (and) that was very well known in Italy with the national team'. I am having trouble finding any such social media references from 'before' the Italians arrived to TFC. More over if that information was so pervasive why did no one post anywhere that notion. In contrast, IIRC, I believe there is a short video clip of Lollo and Fede celebrating/partying together with the Euro-Cup. I also remembered this image from over 5 years ago (March 2016?)

https://www.vesuviolive.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Insigne-Nazionale.jpg

It was well known enough to be a topic of discussion here as far back as last seasons and a clip of them celebrating doesn't mean anything compared to sourced, backed up reporting

Literally *everything* she has said on Tfc this week has been backed up in an article by the athletic, an article that has multiple sources and is from maybe one of the only credible publications left in sports

Something isn't fake news when you don't like what the message is. What she has said has been backed up at the highest level of credibility that exists for a team like Toronto fc. She is batting 1000 on us this week.

I've no idea if she's generally credible, but this consistent attempt to discredit her I've seen elsewhere is...weird. It's downright weird. It's Donald trump "I don't like it therefore it's fake"-esque

She has been fully, 100% backed up with what she's said. Like her or not, she has said nothing that hasn't been sourced and printed by a very credible media outlet.

[ag futbol]

She was wrong about Insigne travelling to Austin and not starting because of a blow up with Bob.
The first point, although there was no definitive evidence to the contrary, yes it appears to be wrong.

Point #2? I think that might be unknowable at this stage. I wouldn’t take the club’s assertion to the contrary as proof.

[Canary10]

The first point, although there was no definitive evidence to the contrary, yes it appears to be wrong.

Point #2? I think that might be unknowable at this stage. I wouldn’t take the club’s assertion to the contrary as proof.

Yeah I meant the travel part specifically.

[ag futbol]

Yeah I meant the travel part specifically.
Fair enough.

[ensco]

To me there is a pretty interesting ambiguity in the Athletic story. The Monday conference call was “led” by Insigne and Bernadeschi, and the topic was ousting BB… but upon very close reading it only implied that Insigne was calling for #bobout. We all thought it said it, but it stops short.

Then Insigne declared himself postgame yesterday as NOT on team#bobout.

So the question for me is… how do his teammates, who all saw whatever it is that actually happened, now see Lorenzo?

Is he a stand up guy, who as a team leader helped run an important discussion Monday, but either supported Bob or maybe stood aside personally…and is now just trying to do the right thing, the professional thing, and support the manager publicly, as stars do?

Or is Lorenzo a snake, who said one thing Monday and then sold out his teammate Saturday, because getting rid of Fede means more free kicks, and more Ovo jerseys sold and personal glory, for Lorenzo?

[JoesphNdo]

To me there is a pretty interesting ambiguity in the Athletic story. The Monday conference call was “led” by Insigne and Bernadeschi, and the topic was ousting BB… but upon very close reading it only implied that Insigne was calling for #bobout. We all thought it said it, but it stops short.

Then Insigne declared himself postgame yesterday as NOT on team#bobout.

So the question for me is… how do his teammates, who all saw whatever it is that actually happened, now see Lorenzo?

Is he a stand up guy, who as a team leader helped run an important discussion Monday, but stood aside personally…and is now just trying to do the right thing, the professional thing, and support the manager publicly, as stars do?

Or is Lorenzo a snake, who said one thing Monday and then sold out his teammate Saturday, because getting rid of Fede means more free kicks, and more Ovo jerseys sold and personal glory, for Lorenzo?

Difficult to know. I think the simplest explanation is he wants Bradley out, but, saw himself and his character questioned in the media and by some fans as a result and that put a fire under his ass to go out and show he isn't the problem

[OgtheDim]

Or maybe a bunch of Type A guys had a series of gigantic arguments that had been coming for awhile - arguments about their livelihoods & plans & stuff that bugged them & about hopes & opinions - somewhere towards the end of all that, people recognized all their futures were at stake, found a common ground and even thought they had a lot of crappy things to say to each other worked it all out as professionals...


for now




Hedges post game interview firmly indicated some serious arguing happened that none of them want to talk about - I would note nobody is saying "that's behind us now".

[ensco]

Fede will definitely feel seriously betrayed.

Unless one thinks Fede is crazy enough to have said what he said without canvassing his teammates.

[Richard]

Could someone explain where this whole Insigne/Bernie feud started? I'm going to assume it was originating from the national team.

[jloome]

To me there is a pretty interesting ambiguity in the Athletic story. The Monday conference call was “led” by Insigne and Bernadeschi, and the topic was ousting BB… but upon very close reading it only implied that Insigne was calling for #bobout. We all thought it said it, but it stops short.

Then Insigne declared himself postgame yesterday as NOT on team#bobout.

So the question for me is… how do his teammates, who all saw whatever it is that actually happened, now see Lorenzo?

Is he a stand up guy, who as a team leader helped run an important discussion Monday, but either supported Bob or maybe stood aside personally…and is now just trying to do the right thing, the professional thing, and support the manager publicly, as stars do?

Or is Lorenzo a snake, who said one thing Monday and then sold out his teammate Saturday, because getting rid of Fede means more free kicks, and more Ovo jerseys sold and personal glory, for Lorenzo?


I do wonder how much of this is because Insigne’s only translator for the last four weeks has probably been Bernardeschi.

Michael came back to take in this team meeting apparently, and suddenly stories are changing dramatically.

Insigne’s English is not good; Richie may have passed Kyle what he’d heard, but given that he probably spends a lot of his time practicing with Fede, I wonder whether he was getting the whole story.

I do get the sense Fede is a little immature and prone to manipulation, because he’s been astute about building enough fan support that even when he wasn’t playing defense properly people were still jumping to defend his workrate and slag Insigne.

I think his ego issues, and seeing himself as the secondary star, are probably problematic. But if Bob demonstrates to hi he’s wrong, maybe he buys in. It may not matter if he gets moved or Bob gets fired. Kilbane seems to believe Bradley is a dead man walking, but this is a very political league.

[jloome]

Fede will definitely feel seriously betrayed.

Unless one thinks Fede is crazy enough to have said what he said without canvassing his teammates.

I suspect he’s egotistical enough to think guys who don’t like Bob would back him, without actually asking them.

If there’s a schism over anything it’s probably whether they want to play for Bob. Given how some former players described it as “the worst environment they’d ever been in” there are likely roster schisms that have to be resolved before the team can move ahead either way.

[ensco]

I think Kilbane is right but didn’t go far enough. I think both Bob and Fede are dead men walking. Its just a question of when.

[SenorDingDong]

Everything we've heard about Insigne has only been hear say. Nothing direct from his mouth like Berna.

Anyway it doesn't matter. Insigne did the right thing last night and just upped his efforts. As a professional athlete you don't throw a mutiny against your coach. Even if the coach stinks. That's career ending/ damaging stuff.

[Mr. Inbetween]

If anybody can find a clip of that 30 seconds in the second half extra time where LI put on a show about controlling the ball - THAT was amazing.

:smilewinkgrin:

https://twitter.com/idiffidatiTFC/status/1663087430121996288

[SenorDingDong]

:smilewinkgrin:

https://twitter.com/idiffidatiTFC/status/1663087430121996288

I love that. What a shift.

[leedsandTFC]

i feel like part of the clear the air involved it being made clear to insigne that bob isn't going anywhere.

he clearly is enjoying living in toronto, so will do what it takes to stay.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So Insigne puts up last match. May it continue.

[Oldtimer]

That article is behind a paywall, except the first part. Thay maybe the most some 1/4 of the whole article.

Can someone post the whole article here?
Thanks in advance!

Edit: Never mind, I have read it.

We don't allow posting of complete articles here for copyright reasons and because we want people to support the few reporters who actually report on the team. People who post complete articles will be banned.

In the future please pay your $1.50. It's cheaper than a magazine and a fraction of a single BMO beer. I can't believe that anyone here can't afford it, even the proverbial 16 year old posting from their mom's basement.

[SenorDingDong]

i feel like part of the clear the air involved it being made clear to insigne that bob isn't going anywhere.

he clearly is enjoying living in toronto, so will do what it takes to stay.

I'm hard pressed to see Insigne leaving. He was in the Four Seasons last year, but this off season his family and him bought what looks like a gorgeous house, mini footy pitch in the back, very modern.

He has to boys who are older and in school. Its possible at the end of last season he may have investigated a return to Europe, deemed it not financially viable and now is committed.

Berna only has 1 daughter who is still pre-school, so he could be more flexible.

But yes I agree with you. In the last match I noticed Insigne wasn't getting frustrated with lack of calls or anything. He seemed changed. Probably accepted Bob and MLS for what it is, and if he wants any enjoyment of his time here all he can do is adapt and play hard. That is 100% the right approach too.

[OgtheDim]

That second goal - the guy ran hard for over half the pitch to get on the end of that pass after he did the big looping switch to create the overload - Insigne still has distance pace.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW, ties into the previous and recent unsubstantiated rumour. From a Turkish sports daily...

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1663398676671209474

[los sonadores]

FWIW, ties into the previous and recent unsubstantiated rumour. From a Turkish sports daily...

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1663398676671209474

Now that Apple and The Athletic have stated that Insigne is not happy in Toronto I imagine ever football rabid country with a news source will have a story stating that he’s coming soon to a powerhouse near you! Won’t most of it be trashy unsubstantiated stuff? I hope he continues to play well and wear the armband even if only so we don’t have to busy ourselves with endless rumour.

[Mr. Inbetween]

You are probably right; let the rumour mill begin and go into overdrive. I would not be surprised if either or both Lollo and Fede have been given permission to negotiate with another team. Ideally, it could be conditioned upon a no transfer fee (the honey) and a mutual termination of the contract- no $ owing (the catch). Given what has transpired, I would not be surprised that BB has maintained the confidence of BM and/or the MLSE Board in the matter of the revolt.

[los sonadores]

You are probably right; let the rumour mill begin and go into overdrive. I would not be surprised if either or both Lollo and Fede have been given permission to negotiate with another team. Ideally, it could be conditioned upon a no transfer fee (the honey) and a mutual termination of the contract- no $ owing (the catch). Given what has transpired, I would not be surprised that BB has maintained the confidence of BM and/or the MLSE Board in the matter of the revolt.

I’d been thinking before the Kaylyn Kayle news that Bob had this year and more - both if he made the playoffs and even if he didn’t, especially if there are extenuating circumstances (major injuries, for example). Barring an Italian mutiny, that is. We seem to have had the mutiny so I’m guessing now that maybe it depends on the results going forward. Which isn’t bad in the sense that it’s good to have pressure to perform. We had almost no pressure last season and that doesn’t make for winning football.

Another guess: we make the playoffs and it’ll satisfy the board but not the Italians if they are still with us. They really want to win and haven’t come to the bush league to sit near the bottom of the table.

[Mr. Inbetween]

It was well known enough to be a topic of discussion here as far back as last seasons and a clip of them celebrating doesn't mean anything compared to sourced, backed up reporting. Literally *everything* she has said on Tfc this week has been backed up in an article by the athletic, an article that has multiple sources and is from maybe one of the only credible publications left in sports. Something isn't fake news when you don't like what the message is. What she has said has been backed up at the highest level of credibility that exists for a team like Toronto fc. She is batting 1000 on us this week. I've no idea if she's generally credible, but this consistent attempt to discredit her I've seen elsewhere is...weird. It's downright weird. It's Donald trump "I don't like it therefore it's fake"-esque. She has been fully, 100% backed up with what she's said. Like her or not, she has said nothing that hasn't been sourced and printed by a very credible media outlet.


I do not remember it being a topic of discussion here as far back as last season; I do remember mentions related to a blurt about this in a segment involving MSingh from earlier this year though. Numerous clips of Lollo and Fede interacting even celebrating are relevant. A publication’s or writer’s credibility is not a proxy for reliability. I am not suggesting the message of her reporting is fortunate happenstance; it’s opportunism. I do not believe she cares if her source inference is being linked to Richie or follows the advice of Jeff Bradley who I think has slyly trolled her. Nothing she has specifically said has been backed up by that article. Words, the choices of, have meaning; they are the foundation of contract and libel law. Professionally she is a tenant of the wordsmith world. In what literary universe does ‘not get along’ mean ‘hated each other’. Even if one thinks it’s code and equates both phrases while also then accepting a personal issue existed between the two ‘before’ they even got to TFC, where is it stated in the article that that was ‘very well known in the media. That was very well known in Italy, with the national team, they did not get on’?

Agree, something isn't fake news when you don't like what the message is. However, something may be considered fake journalism if statements can and do fit within the parameters of such criteria. In my opinion her reporting is often weak in newsworthiness, investigation, featurability, opinion and analysis. I think she enjoys walking late into a theater to pour gasoline on fire while screaming to everyone it’s out of control. Example, her assertion massive corporations wanting to give all their money to CWNT that went nowhere. Some even consider her Alexi Lalas-esque. Maybe its just weird thinking it’s weird to equate calling someone out with discrediting them; a distinction with a difference. To introduce Trump into the discussion just murks the conversation.

Experience has taught me to subscribed to Knoll’s law of media accuracy. IIUC, you yourself believe some in the profession ‘aren't media, they're an extension of the party line’. Others in this Forum have even expressed concerns about TBogerts past reporting as such. These outlets/media mediums are not scholarly publications. The Athletic itself was a distressed asset just bought out last year by the NYT. Again, would it be a great leap to think journalistic standards are usually the first to be tested or suffer in such ordeals. Great reporting can be sensational. Yet, into today’s economic landscape sensationalism still baits/drives the most clicks and purchases/subscriptions. I think the fight against shortcuts or compromise is the prevailing reality that many in that profession have to deal with while trying to earn a living.

[jloome]

I do not remember it being a topic of discussion here as far back as last season; I do remember mentions related to a blurt about this in a segment involving MSingh from earlier this year though. Numerous clips of Lollo and Fede interacting even celebrating are relevant. A publication’s or writer’s credibility is not a proxy for reliability. I am not suggesting the message of her reporting is fortunate happenstance; it’s opportunism. I do not believe she cares if her source inference is being linked to Richie or follows the advice of Jeff Bradley who I think has slyly trolled her. Nothing she has specifically said has been backed up by that article. Words, the choices of, have meaning; they are the foundation of contract and libel law. Professionally she is a tenant of the wordsmith world. In what literary universe does ‘not get along’ mean ‘hated each other’. Even if one thinks it’s code and equates both phrases while also then accepting a personal issue existed between the two ‘before’ they even got to TFC, where is it stated in the article that that was ‘very well known in the media. That was very well known in Italy, with the national team, they did not get on’?

Agree, something isn't fake news when you don't like what the message is. However, something may be considered fake journalism if statements can and do fit within the parameters of such criteria. In my opinion her reporting is often weak in newsworthiness, investigation, featurability, opinion and analysis. I think she enjoys walking late into a theater to pour gasoline on fire while screaming to everyone it’s out of control. Example, her assertion massive corporations wanting to give all their money to CWNT that went nowhere. Some even consider her Alexi Lalas-esque. Maybe its just weird thinking it’s weird to equate calling someone out with discrediting them; a distinction with a difference. To introduce Trump into the discussion just murks the conversation.

Experience has taught me to subscribed to Knoll’s law of media accuracy. IIUC, you yourself believe some in the profession ‘aren't media, they're an extension of the party line’. Others in this Forum have even expressed concerns about TBogerts past reporting as such. These outlets/media mediums are not scholarly publications. The Athletic itself was a distressed asset just bought out last year by the NYT. Again, would it be a great leap to think journalistic standards are usually the first to be tested or suffer in such ordeals. Great reporting can be sensational. Yet, into today’s economic landscape sensationalism still baits/drives the most clicks and purchases/subscriptions. I think the fight against shortcuts or compromise is the prevailing reality that many in that profession have to deal with while trying to earn a living.

Yeah, just said something similar in the Bob thread, although more from a working perspective.


I think the fight against shortcuts or compromise is the prevailing reality that many in that profession have to deal with while trying to earn a living.

​ I'd add to this that a great many journalists have been hired in the years since standards began to seriously drop, which wasn't long after 9/11. So they've never had to work to tougher standards. And many of the remaining veterans were literally those who'd stay and write whatever told, just because they wanted to keep the job.

[ag futbol]

I do not remember it being a topic of discussion here as far back as last season; I do remember mentions related to a blurt about this in a segment involving MSingh from earlier this year though. Numerous clips of Lollo and Fede interacting even celebrating are relevant. A publication’s or writer’s credibility is not a proxy for reliability.

Ah yes, the sacred locker room bond. Always real, never done for the sake of public appearances, or strangely compartmentalized when there is conflict elsewhere in the relationship. What you see is what you get!

I’ve included some classic relationships in sports below in the spirit of friendship. Hooray for camaraderie!

http://media.cleveland.com/shaw_impact/photo/west-lbj-embrace-vert-apjpg-95256901a92c87d4.jpg

https://www.nbateamslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/barbosa_nash.jpg

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/4635a9a/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1195+0+0/resize/1200x700!/format/webp/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fb6%2Fe8%2F4b995919a5 a4504d0a65e38aaa1c%2Flat-clippers-knicks-la0025539410-20141231

[Mr. Inbetween]

You missed the most obvious and easy one... :smilewinkgrin:

https://twitter.com/texsaspost/status/1132132944003444736

[ag futbol]

You missed the most obvious and easy one... :smilewinkgrin:

There were just too many too list :)

[Mr. Inbetween]

^^^


Ah yes, the sacred locker room bond. Always real, never done for the sake of public appearances, or strangely compartmentalized when there is conflict elsewhere in the relationship. What you see is what you get! I’ve included some classic relationships in sports below in the spirit of friendship. Hooray for camaraderie!

Also, <EDIT: missed this at first glance, brain-fart on my part>, according to those pics selected as examples, are you implying one of the Italians had an affair with the other's wife?

[ag futbol]

^^^



Also, brain fart, according to those pics selected as examples, are you implying one of the Italians had an affair with the other's wife?
No, just that things aren’t always what they appear and people can be excessively fake or celebrate in a moment but not give up their grievances.

By all accounts, it sounded like coming in the Italians weren’t exactly close (but that’s different from being in conflict). Perhaps they are closing now finding themselves on this adventure together?

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
I do not fundamentally disagree with what you and others as well have suggested. It may also just be the opposite of what you state. The Italians grew apart after arriving. Fede may have wanted more, either salary, official recognition or exposure, given how, with his likeable personality, he sort of became the defacto face of the franchise. We all know Lollo went through a personal issue during the second half of last season, that then kind of again carried over after the beginning of this season with an injury. However, I think he may have lost a mental edge over Fede that was then compounded by the tragedy his family suffered before that occurrence. Specifically, when he took that penalty kick against NER's Petrovic which was saved. I believe after that he ceded that responsibility to Fede.

[JoesphNdo]

I do not remember it being a topic of discussion here as far back as last season; I do remember mentions related to a blurt about this in a segment involving MSingh from earlier this year though. Numerous clips of Lollo and Fede interacting even celebrating are relevant. A publication’s or writer’s credibility is not a proxy for reliability. I am not suggesting the message of her reporting is fortunate happenstance; it’s opportunism. I do not believe she cares if her source inference is being linked to Richie or follows the advice of Jeff Bradley who I think has slyly trolled her. Nothing she has specifically said has been backed up by that article. Words, the choices of, have meaning; they are the foundation of contract and libel law. Professionally she is a tenant of the wordsmith world. In what literary universe does ‘not get along’ mean ‘hated each other’. Even if one thinks it’s code and equates both phrases while also then accepting a personal issue existed between the two ‘before’ they even got to TFC, where is it stated in the article that that was ‘very well known in the media. That was very well known in Italy, with the national team, they did not get on’?

Agree, something isn't fake news when you don't like what the message is. However, something may be considered fake journalism if statements can and do fit within the parameters of such criteria. In my opinion her reporting is often weak in newsworthiness, investigation, featurability, opinion and analysis. I think she enjoys walking late into a theater to pour gasoline on fire while screaming to everyone it’s out of control. Example, her assertion massive corporations wanting to give all their money to CWNT that went nowhere. Some even consider her Alexi Lalas-esque. Maybe its just weird thinking it’s weird to equate calling someone out with discrediting them; a distinction with a difference. To introduce Trump into the discussion just murks the conversation.

Experience has taught me to subscribed to Knoll’s law of media accuracy. IIUC, you yourself believe some in the profession ‘aren't media, they're an extension of the party line’. Others in this Forum have even expressed concerns about TBogerts past reporting as such. These outlets/media mediums are not scholarly publications. The Athletic itself was a distressed asset just bought out last year by the NYT. Again, would it be a great leap to think journalistic standards are usually the first to be tested or suffer in such ordeals. Great reporting can be sensational. Yet, into today’s economic landscape sensationalism still baits/drives the most clicks and purchases/subscriptions. I think the fight against shortcuts or compromise is the prevailing reality that many in that profession have to deal with while trying to earn a living.

Honestly as I said, I can't speak to her in general. However, in this case, the main facts of what she said (you can argue on wording) was backed up by a sourced article from a credible institution, bar maybe the 'hating each other' part but, as I said, that rumour existed here for over a year so this definitely was one that existed (it may have had no merit, but the rumour existed). The other side I'm sorry, I can't agree pictures or social media posts prove anything. There's numerous examples given here so I won't go more into it, but there's many examples of people who can't stand each other appearing happy and huggy in the public eye

That doesn't make it 100% gospel, everyone has an agenda, I just think calling her national enquirer-esque and fake news for reporting of something that...is pretty much accurate, as best as we can tell, seems personal. In this case, I don't get it. Maybe some of her wording was off and sure, call her on that, but the bones of what she said was pretty much vindicated as best as anyone who isn't in the camp possible could

Nothing is a proxy for 100% reliability, but I'll take an article by known writers backed up by (they say, and I've no reason to doubt) a string of sources on both sides of the fence over random social media posts and context-less pictures. Unfortunately for us, while not 100% reliable, it's the least bad option we have (Bar jloome just calling his people and talking to them!)

My main issue is the way she's been taken to task - mostly elsewhere, btw, not you - over stating things pretty well backed up strikes me as odd given the lack of scrutiny given to things we think are news these days. Makes me wonder if there's more at play there.

[ensco]

At risk of wading into cultural stereotyping, Fede and Lorenzo come from the two very different halves of Italy.

Fede is from the wealthier north, and within that context, his home town, Carrara, is a particularly wealthy part of Italy. Insigne is from the working class south, and withing that context, one of the grittier areas (suburban Naples).

The North-South cultural divide in Italy resembles, but is bigger, I would say, than that between the US Northeast and the Deep South, just to draw a parallel we all know.

Anybody who knows anything about Italy knows that two Italians with those backgrounds are not automatically going to be reflexively friendly with each other, even if they are far from home and the only Italians in the room. My expectation would never have been that they would be instant blood brothers here. Which is fine.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^^
JoesphNdo, appreciate your reply. We have each had the opportunity to opine and rebut on this matter. You do not agree with me, I do not agree with you; that's alright, I think we can agree to disagree. Trusting we are both good to move on. http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/blob:http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/5e194910-848c-4af2-b1f9-03650effdb4e :cheers: