Match Day 9 - TFC @ Philly Sat April 22 7:39 pm - You Don't Believe It

[OgtheDim]

We do this every time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXhTHyIgQ_U&ab_channel=PostMaloneVEVO


*********

Have at It People

[Mr. Inbetween]

With what occurred with Fede after the match against ATLUTD, does he currently still have four or perhaps now five yellow cards and will miss the next match by accumulation?

[Red CB Toronto]

Plus I do wonder if this is the first time we see Thomas Romero in net? SJ has a busy week with the US-Mexico match in Phoenix on Wednesday night. He is the likely starter against Mexico and will have a lot of training, travel, re-generation going on with a midweek match out west. Will be interested to see how this plays out.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict this ends in a draw.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Plus I do wonder if this is the first time we see Thomas Romero in net? SJ has a busy week with the US-Mexico match in Phoenix on Wednesday night. He is the likely starter against Mexico and will have a lot of training, travel, re-generation going on with a midweek match out west. Will be interested to see how this plays out.

Likely? Though I would still prefer SJ between the uprights for all these matches; a best gloves forward thing for me.

[OgtheDim]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict this ends in a draw.

I'd take that result...

[FootBallAZ]

I'd take that result...


at what point will we stop taking these draws ? TFC has been so bad over the past 3 seasons that - we have lowered our expectations to a season full of draws?

do you expect TFC to win this year?

[rydermike]

at what point will we stop taking these draws ? TFC has been so bad over the past 3 seasons that - we have lowered our expectations to a season full of draws?

do you expect TFC to win this year?

Maybe we can be like Portugal in Euro 2016. In their 7 games, they had 6 draws after 90 minutes (Group stage - Draw, Draw, Draw, Extra Time Win, PK Win, Win, Extra Time Win). We can go 1-32-1

[Mr. Inbetween]

This…

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1647936967089299456

Image refresher here???… this or that???…

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/5/20/22445916/toronto-fc-mls-drop-new-2021-parley-kits

https://www.mlsstore.ca/en/toronto-fc/jerseys/mens-toronto-fc-adidas-blue-2022-primeblue-replica-jersey/t-36345819+d-58227560+f-268670491+z-9-3196334836?utm_medium=cse&loc=en-CA&_s=ak1944mlsca-plamlsca&sku=17706536

BTW, is anyone able to confirm what JP Nesker’s TFC ‘white whale kit’ is called and the year it is from?

[OgtheDim]

at what point will we stop taking these draws ? TFC has been so bad over the past 3 seasons that - we have lowered our expectations to a season full of draws?

do you expect TFC to win this year?

This is all situational.

Philly away? I'll take that draw

Not all that happy with a draw at home vs Atlanta

Would not accept a draw vs. NYC at home

[Ultra & Proud]

This…

https://twitter.com/WakingtheRed/status/1647936967089299456

Image refresher here???…

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/5/20/22445916/toronto-fc-mls-drop-new-2021-parley-kits

BTW, is anyone able to confirm what JP Nesker’s TFC ‘white whale kit’ is called and the year it is from?

But what is the 2023 Parley kit? Seems like MLS dropping the ball with their own advertising this season. Usually we would have seen something and had some spam links dropped on SM sites or emailed before the Parley kit match week came up.

[OgtheDim]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit

[Mr. Inbetween]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit

Ok OtD; thanks! Interesting.

[FootBallAZ]

This is all situational.

Philly away? I'll take that draw

Not all that happy with a draw at home vs Atlanta

Would not accept a draw vs. NYC at home


cool bro -i agree- gets annoying to say ya ill take a draw this weekend when we already took so many lol

[FootBallAZ]

Maybe we can be like Portugal in Euro 2016. In their 7 games, they had 6 draws after 90 minutes (Group stage - Draw, Draw, Draw, Extra Time Win, PK Win, Win, Extra Time Win). We can go 1-32-1


lol- as long as i guess TFC is playing meaningful games I cant object.

[Ultra & Proud]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit
Okay I get why not overly promoted. Looks like dollar store bathroom wallpaper.

[jloome]

Okay I get why not overly promoted. Looks like dollar store bathroom wallpaper.

They're kinda ugly and feel like polyester, so people didn't want them. Now, they're going for more than list price on the resale market due to scarcity, allegedly.

This was the same rationale that made me look at a comic book rack in 1984 and say "Ptttf... Teenage Mutant Ninja TURTLES? Nobody's going to buy that."

[OgtheDim]

Same commentators as last week - Costigan & Edu

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1648356387787816960

Could be worse...

[ensco]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit

This is the weekend I have been dreaming about. Getting on Season Pass, clicking on games … and having zero idea which teams are playing.

[JoesphNdo]

This is a real chance of an upset, Philly are definitely prioritizing CCL. It's a pity they have LA and not a daunting trip to Mexico, but still, we should go out and attack

[los sonadores]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1648356387787816960

Could be worse...

At what point does “concussion protocol” mean “concussion”?

[613reppingTFC]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit

On the MLS store you can buy Philly in the Darker kit which would mean we are going to be the lighter kit for this year again. I don't see TFC for sale anywhere yet so cannot confirm, but we won't both be wearing dark lol

Edit: never mind it's on the mls Canadian website for sale

[jloome]

This is a real chance of an upset, Philly are definitely prioritizing CCL. It's a pity they have LA and not a daunting trip to Mexico, but still, we should go out and attack

They're still tough. I've watched a few of their games this year and they're fighting for every ball, every shot. They've had some defensive miscues and bad results after travelling, and Blake was out for several games.

But he's back. So it'll be tough.

[Mr. Inbetween]

This is a real chance of an upset, Philly are definitely prioritizing CCL. It's a pity they have LA and not a daunting trip to Mexico, but still, we should go out and attack


They're still tough. I've watched a few of their games this year and they're fighting for every ball, every shot. They've had some defensive miscues and bad results after travelling, and Blake was out for several games. But he's back. So it'll be tough.

Agree, it could be a tough match. Probably a draw; middling club chance at 12/28 and statistically fair-ish. However, I do think they can be had. Maybe the return of Lolo and Adama give us that edge? Also, hopefully Fede is playing and not out on any accumulation; given what may have occurred at the end of the last match? In this instance, I will accept a draw, yet would prefer a win, so TFC does not set any new club record!

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1647727177796837376

[JoesphNdo]

They're still tough. I've watched a few of their games this year and they're fighting for every ball, every shot. They've had some defensive miscues and bad results after travelling, and Blake was out for several games.

But he's back. So it'll be tough.

For sure, to be clear, we're still underdogs and I'd take a draw all day, but there's definitely more chance of an upset now as they go deep in CCL than ever

[Bushmancan]

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/04/adidas-x-parley-mls-2023-kits.html

Its the "we made this from ocean plastic" kit

That is too funny, i don't need the plastic kits to be confused. It took me a while to figure out that Portland were playing Seattle

[jloome]

In this instance, I will accept a draw, yet would prefer a win, so TFC does not set any new club record!



It's going to get tougher and tougher justifying those draws with Insigne back, though. Even though it does seem statistically likely. People expect wins with both Italians on the pitch (or all three, I suppose. Props to Petretta.)

[jloome]

For sure, to be clear, we're still underdogs and I'd take a draw all day, but there's definitely more chance of an upset now as they go deep in CCL than ever

Yeah, as with Seattle last year. They were deadly in CCL but looked half-asleep in the league. They looked like last season's Sounders in the game against Portland on the weekend. Came out flying, absolutely dominant, then took Leo Chu off...and went to sleep.

[ensco]

That chart above doesn’t make me feel better about what happens when TFC clusters draws like that.

for what it's worth, those 2010 and 2013 TFC teams went on to start losing games, not winning them. The 2010 slide led a complete blowup of everything, including the departure of Dero, Mo and Preki.

I know I know, different time, different team…. Anyways, carry on

[ag futbol]

That chart above doesn’t make me feel better about what happens when TFC clusters draws like that.

for what it's worth, those 2010 and 2013 TFC teams went on to start losing games, not winning them. The 2010 slide led a complete blowup of everything, including the departure of Dero, Mo and Preki.

I know I know, different time, different team…. Anyways, carry on
I do remember in 2017 when we had a few notable injuries and it was up to Jay Chapman and a bunch of the supporting cast to treat water (which they did quite well).

This feels similar in some ways but I’m not sure LI as the cavalry will be enough to push us over the hump. The lack of a usable striker is really a shadow over the team right now. The options top to bottom feel pretty bad, even if Dio returns.

[jloome]

I do remember in 2017 when we had a few notable injuries and it was up to Jay Chapman and a bunch of the supporting cast to treat water (which they did quite well).

This feels similar in some ways but I’m not sure LI as the cavalry will be enough to push us over the hump. The lack of a usable striker is really a shadow over the team right now. The options top to bottom feel pretty bad, even if Dio returns.

They have to get the Italians playing provider with less-talented players, and not just looking to score, basically. We have the lowest number of touches in the box in the league.

We do not have a single striker with a touch inside the six-yard box and I don't believe any of them have more than one shot from inside the penatly area, the 18-yard box, other than Peruzza, who got two poor ones off in the last game.

That's after eight games.

The thing is, they KNOW how much offensive talent the Italians provide, and that Oso and Kaye can chip in goals as well. So fixing the defense and team movement has clearly been the priority.

Now we need goal, and chances in the box.

[ag futbol]

They have to get the Italians playing provider with less-talented players, and not just looking to score, basically. We have the lowest number of touches in the box in the league.

We do not have a single striker with a touch inside the six-yard box and I don't believe any of them have more than one shot from inside the penatly area, the 18-yard box, other than Peruzza, who got two poor ones off in the last game.

That's after eight games.

The thing is, they KNOW how much offensive talent the Italians provide, and that Oso and Kaye can chip in goals as well. So fixing the defense and team movement has clearly been the priority.

Now we need goal, and chances in the box.
Hard to argue with fixing the back first. Honestly seeing a competent keeper and an organized backline has been great to watch

[ensco]

I do remember in 2017 when we had a few notable injuries and it was up to Jay Chapman and a bunch of the supporting cast to treat water (which they did quite well).

This feels similar in some ways but I’m not sure LI as the cavalry will be enough to push us over the hump. The lack of a usable striker is really a shadow over the team right now. The options top to bottom feel pretty bad, even if Dio returns.

I think our scrubs actually won most of those games when Altidore, Bradley, and Gio were all missing to various degrees in July-Sep 2017. They would have had to do so given we set the points record.

[Red CB Toronto]

Sean Johnson went the full 90 for the US Wednesday night in their 1-1 draw with Mexico in Phoenix. With travel, regeneration etc. I will be curious on what are the odds we see Thomas Romero in net Saturday night. Sean will either have to fly back to Toronto, only to travel with the team to Philly on Friday or fly directly there and have no training for the next before the match. Will be interesting to see what Bob decides.

[los sonadores]

I think our scrubs actually won most of those games when Altidore, Bradley, and Gio were all missing to various degrees in July-Sep 2017. They would have had to do so given we set the points record.

Yeah, hence the talk of great depth. It didn’t seem to matter who we played.

[613reppingTFC]

Sean Johnson went the full 90 for the US Wednesday night in their 1-1 draw with Mexico in Phoenix. With travel, regeneration etc. I will be curious on what are the odds we see Thomas Romero in net Saturday night. Sean will either have to fly back to Toronto, only to travel with the team to Philly on Friday or fly directly there and have no training for the next before the match. Will be interesting to see what Bob decides.

My guess is Bob still plays Johnson. I'm sure he wants to have the best 11 out there, we don't really want to drop more points and philly is a pretty capable team so hopefully another draw would be a good result. Guessing Insigne might start and go for 45-60 mins?

[SenorDingDong]

I think Sean will play. Doesn't seem like a guy who would say no.

[OgtheDim]

Interesting that the only place I saw discussion of possible TFC suspensions for the post game last week....was in here.

Berna on a 1 & done for the next is not surprising - Puig is as well for LAG - Seba was the same - offensively interested, defensively trying but doing striker tackles.

[jloome]

Interesting that the only place I saw discussion of possible TFC suspensions for the post game last week....was in here.

Berna on a 1 & done for the next is not surprising - Puig is as well for LAG - Seba was the same - offensively interested, defensively trying but doing striker tackles.

You're being generous. Two of Fede's cards were for dissent, beaking at the Ref. Somewhat unnecessary although I'd rather he's that passionate than he doesn't care.

[ensco]

Interesting that the only place I saw discussion of possible TFC suspensions for the post game last week....was in here.

Berna on a 1 & done for the next is not surprising - Puig is as well for LAG - Seba was the same - offensively interested, defensively trying but doing striker tackles.

I think MLS is having real issues with the level of refereeing, and are facing kind of a conundrum.

Just to pick our game last week, their were 12 players on the pitch who know what proper refereeing looks like, in Europe and South America. A whole bunch of guys with Euro and World Cup experience.

But if they start suspending those types of players, ie Fede or Richie.... it would cause a deep dive on looking at the refs calls, and if those are in fact blown or missed calls, that would then cause a "mickey mouse bad look" for the league. Mickey mouse bad looks aren't what Apple was promised.

So I think the solution is that are turning a blind eye to behaviours that look pretty much like automatic suspensions, when said behaviour is born out by a review of the facts.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1649068841308135427

[Mr. Inbetween]

^ Didn’t Molinaro report Diomande was back training with TFC last week? New or re-aggravated injury? Ditto, perhaps by others reporting and not Molinaro, on VV?

[Graeme]

Not sure if it was Molinaro, but yes, Diomande and Vazquez were both training at some point recently. Hedges is good news, but sounds like (so far) we won't see him this weekend.

[613reppingTFC]

^ Didn’t Molinaro report Diomande was back training with TFC last week? New or re-aggravated injury? Ditto, perhaps by others reporting and not Molinaro, on VV?

Haha yeah on the 18th he said that Diomande was in full training..sooo what is it now?

[OgtheDim]

We seem to be getting our "so what happens when MB isn't available" situation.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Second week in a row. Interesting. Let’s see what BB does.

[jloome]

Haha yeah on the 18th he said that Diomande was in full training..sooo what is it now?

Muscle injury, so they likely have limited duty even when resuming training. Another week, at least, I'd suspect.


That chart above doesn’t make me feel better about what happens when TFC clusters draws like that.

for what it's worth, those 2010 and 2013 TFC teams went on to start losing games, not winning them. The 2010 slide led a complete blowup of everything, including the departure of Dero, Mo and Preki.

I know I know, different time, different team…. Anyways, carry on

This year is a little different. We have the fifth-best difference between expected goals and expected allowed in the league; the only thing letting us down is touches in the box and having a central attacking presence.

Our defensive strength is so much greater this year than last that we can win a LOT of 1-0 games if we can actually get a striker scoring regularly. None of ours even have a touch in the six-yard box after eight games, and only a few in the 18.

Offensively at least, we're basically playing with 10-10.5 men all the time.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1649094006104637460?s=20

[jloome]

I think Sean will play. Doesn't seem like a guy who would say no.

That goal last night (a baaad defensive giveaway) was the first he's given up in an international in 800-plus minutes, apparently.

[los sonadores]

^
Second week in a row. Interesting. Let’s see what BB does.

I’m expecting a version of what worked best last week: Osorio, MAK and Servania as the midfield. Insigne plays a half, maybe, and JMR there when Insigne’s off.

Maybe what’s trickier is what the midfield looks like when MB is back….

[los sonadores]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1649094006104637460?s=20

I’d like to see Diomande can get on the field. There’s been nothing to suggest we don’t desperately need a striker and he’s the hope… the sooner the better. With Kerr out I’d give Perruza another half to see if he can begin to adjust to the speed of the Italians game.

Also have to think that if either Ayo or Peruzza can get even one goal they would gain some confidence.

edit: And if Diomande does get on the pitch, even for 15, it should be with Insigne and Bernie.

[JosephFC]

Berna questionable for phila game

[los sonadores]

Berna questionable for phila game

Yeah just saw that from Davidson. That’s really too bad.

[jloome]

Yeah just saw that from Davidson. That’s really too bad.

And still limited minutes for Insgine, along with possibly none for Diomande and Vazquez.

So we might be down Hedges, Bradley, Insigne, Bernadeschi, Diomande and Vazquez.

Eep.

[James17930]

And still limited minutes for Insgine, along with possibly none for Diomande and Vazquez.

So we might be down Hedges, Bradley, Insigne, Bernadeschi, Diomande and Vazquez.

Eep.

So before we were saying a draw would be a good result; now I think we'll be sacrificing goats for one.

[SenorDingDong]

And still limited minutes for Insgine, along with possibly none for Diomande and Vazquez.

So we might be down Hedges, Bradley, Insigne, Bernadeschi, Diomande and Vazquez.

Eep.

That's definitely not a good sign. Think I will skip watching this one.

Best we can hope for is a start the car kind of draw.

[Ultra & Proud]

Best we can hope for is a start the car kind of draw.

This is our thing now and I am sticking to my draw prediction no matter who plays.

Only draws.

[SenorDingDong]

This is our thing now and I am sticking to my draw prediction no matter who plays.

Only draws.

1-32-1 season record.

[Ultra & Proud]

1-32-1 season record.

My dream is 3 - 30 - 1

Have to beat Montreal twice.

[ensco]

My dream is 3 - 30 - 1

Have to beat Montreal twice.

Imagine losing one game in 34 ... and missing the playoffs.

There must be a league somewhere where something like this has happened

[Mr. Inbetween]

At what point does “concussion protocol” mean “concussion”?

Yeah, this is a weird sitch. That is, the always terminology status of being in 'concussion protocol' part of it. In this instance, for Hedges, even though he has a concussion; is concussed. I am sure there is better information on this out there, but I found the following in relation to MLS/Next on the matter that may help explain. Suspect any Next should be similarly applicable to MLS. Interesting... Hedges is progressing and seems to be somewhere between stages 3 and 4?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mls-head-injury-evaluation-and-management-protocol

https://www.google.com/search?q=mls+concussion+protocol&client=firefox-b-d&hl=en&sxsrf=APwXEddOvDaGJi6-GUfSvPsPFA-A5oESfA:1682158491891&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsxPXaoL3-AhUemWoFHUXOD8QQ_AUoAHoECAIQAg&biw=1360&bih=643&dpr=1

Graded Exercise Progression.
A graded return to play progression must be supervised by a QMP. An example of a return to play progression is provided below.

Other information is
available at: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57125d942eeb814000fb1ca5/t/5e4c29a6752b454673e
934cf/1582049716151/20200218+R2R+Concussion+Management+v3.pdf).

1. Light aerobic exercise (e.g. stationary bicycle) for 15-20 minutes (do not allow Player
to break a sweat)
2. Moderate intensity aerobic exercise (30 minutes, moderate intensity, breaking a
sweat)
3. Sport-specific training (ball handling, passing, light running, NO heading)
4. Non-contact training drills, including full exertion interval training (may start light
resistance training)
5. Full contact training with heading
6. Return to competition (game play)

Typically, a Player progresses from one step to the next every 24 hours as long as concussion related symptoms do not newly emerge, reemerge, or become exacerbated. If the Player develops symptoms during one of the steps the activity should be stopped and the Player should be allowed to rest for 24 hours or until such symptoms resolve, whichever is later. The Player should then return to the prior step and resume the progression. The QMP shall be wholly responsible for determining the level of permissible activity, and whether a Player can engage in 7
such with or only without certain symptoms.

Patience is key as symptoms may re-emerge during this process. Do not attempt to speed up this process unless under the supervision of a well-qualified concussion specialist who has access to a multi-disciplinary team of qualified healthcare professionals.

Return to Play.
Return to full contact play shall only occur once the Player is free of concussion related symptoms and permitted in writing by the Player’s QMP and only occurs after (1) player is free of concussion-related symptoms at rest, (2) Player remains free of concussion-related symptoms after a graded exercise progression, and (3) the Player is judged by the QMP to be at his or her neuro-cognitive baseline. At this point the appropriately trained healthcare professional should provide a written note clearing the Player for full-contact play.

[Mr. Inbetween]

MatchDay! Rain? Possibly thunderstorms? Delay/s?

FWIW... Believe match may be on TSN?

[Mr. Inbetween]

Also, FWIW, a Philadelphia Inquirer seasoned journo predicting a tie.

https://www.inquirer.com/soccer/philadelphia-union-vs-toronto-fc-score-prediction-20230422.html

[jloome]

MatchDay! Rain? Possibly thunderstorms? Delay/s?

FWIW... Believe match may be on TSN?

It's on TSN3.

[OgtheDim]

So incoming TSN talking point - "Now we get to see the future of TFC"

[MikeForbes]

Bernie as the 9?

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1649908526830047232?s=20

[Kamp Berg]

Bernie as the 9?

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1649908526830047232?s=20

Looks like it. I’m guessing Kaye as the 6

[noxx98]

I like this lineup a lot. Shifts Oso back into the midfield rather than playing LW and gets JMR in the game. Would prefer a true striker that Insigne and Berna can work off of, but having Insigne and Berna closer to link up should work well.

[Graeme]

Bernie as the 9?

Or maybe Insigne as a false 9?

[los sonadores]

Or maybe Insigne as a false 9?

That would be very interesting.

[MikeForbes]

I do believe that at this point in his career, Insigne's best position might be as a false 9 or 10.

[jloome]

I do believe that at this point in his career, Insigne's best position might be as a false 9 or 10.

I suspect it'll just be Fede as a 9. He played there at Fiorentina quite a bit when younger so he's used to it. Plus, Insigne and JMR are both more providers than scorers.

[MikeForbes]

I suspect it'll just be Fede as a 9. He played there at Fiorentina quite a bit when younger so he's used to it. Plus, Insigne and JMR are both more providers than scorers.

I am now kind of wondering if it is 4-4-2 with Oso and JMR as the wide mids and Insigne and Bernie playing as a staggered duo up front (Insigne playing a bit behind). Either way, I am very intrigued.

[los sonadores]

I suspect it'll just be Fede as a 9. He played there at Fiorentina quite a bit when younger so he's used to it. Plus, Insigne and JMR are both more providers than scorers.

And it’s not likely to be a long term position for Insigne… having just come back and not playing more than 20 mins this season we probably want to see him get into the groove of his usual position.

[Yuushalinsky]

this is unironically the best line up we're probably going to see until we get a striker.

[MikeForbes]

These plastic kits are actually the best we have seen all year.

[Yuushalinsky]

They do actually look pretty slick on the pitch

[rydermike]

The first blue parley kit we had is still my favourite. The black bar behind the BMO logo ruins this one for me.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Or maybe Insigne as a false 9?

TSN suggesting so.

[noxx98]

This weather looks dreadful.

[OgtheDim]

Philly going to long ball & press all game long

[noxx98]

I don't think we've strung together more than 3 passes in a row.

[OgtheDim]

Jmr ball watching Laryea when he should have been attacking the post

[Amir.]

two big issues with this formation/lineup and we are seeing it early on: the kaye-osorio duo in the middle is not good enough and insigne and bernardeschi are not involved enough

[noxx98]

Oh dear.

[Yuushalinsky]

uuuunfortunate.

[James17930]

That's close to the worst luck OG I've seen from us.

Only worse one was the one in MLS Cup that went off Morrow.

[OgtheDim]

Can only laugh at that...

[MikeForbes]

Double OG. Feel bad for both Lucas and Siggy on that.

[rydermike]

Rosted going to get roasted for that

[Amir.]

shouldve been a goal even before that with kayes player getting free to get a shot from a few yards out

[OgtheDim]

Ugly

[MikeForbes]

I hate this sport.

[Amir.]

johnsons blunders coming out in the past couple games

[jloome]

If this goal stands I'm going to be somewhat disgusted. The striker blocked out a keeper in the box from playing the ball. He has a play at it, sure, but he goes in back first. Hes' not even trying to get the ball.

[OgtheDim]

That is bad refereeing to not call that in the first place

[MikeForbes]

If this goal stands I'm going to be somewhat disgusted. The striker blocked out a keeper in the box from playing the ball. He has a play at it, sure, but he goes in back first. Hes' not even trying to get the ball.

It is one of those goals that people will love if it is for their team or hate if it is against their team. Just looks 50/50 to me.

[OgtheDim]

johnsons blunders coming out in the past couple games

That is NOT on Johnston

[jloome]

Oh fuck this.

Just... shit start to a game all the way around.

[khso11]

Everyone ball watching, this whole game. MAK on this 2nd OG, JMR on the last attack, too lazy.

This midfield ain’t it, we need a new #6, missing MB right now.

[jloome]

We're going to learn what we're made of now. Need steel to come back in this.

[James17930]

It is one of those goals that people will love if it is for their team or hate if it is against their team. Just looks 50/50 to me.

Yeah, in the end I couldn't see anything wrong with it.

[JoesphNdo]

I've always hated the random unwritten rule that anyone who breaths on a goalkeeper is fouling them, so that one is a weird one. It's 100% not a foul, but I also expect it to be called as one more often than not. Mostly I think it's just the right decision

Man we've been rough today.

[Amir.]

theres absolutely no foul there...huge blunder by johnson...went all the way there to keep it in and give it back to philly and ends in a goal

[MikeForbes]

That is NOT on Johnston

Blaming SJ for that is lazy. There are 10 other players on the field who are getting worked currently.

[samuraizero]

do we really not have enough depth to NOT play kaye?

[Amir.]

osorio has no business being at cm in a 2 cm system...he cant defend properly...go to a 433 with insigne kaye servania in the middle so insigne gets more involved and knows how to defend better and send osorio higher

[jloome]

This is fucking dreadful.

[MikeForbes]

So, Petretta... the guy literally does nothing. I get on Kaye for his turnovers and passing. Criscito being replaced by Petretta has been the biggest downgrade of the off-season.

[Amir.]

johnson sends two balls to the opponent inside a minute

[Ultra & Proud]

do we really not have enough depth to NOT play kaye?

Was one of our best players the past few matches. Who would you want over him anyway? He's playing a lot better than Osorio this season. If anyone should take a seat, it'd be him.

[khso11]

Was one of our best players the past few matches. Who would you want over him anyway? He's playing a lot better than Osorio this season. If anyone should take a seat, it'd be him.

This

[jloome]

Was one of our best players the past few matches. Who would you want over him anyway? He's playing a lot better than Osorio this season. If anyone should take a seat, it'd be him.

He and Servania are the only two playing reasonably well so far.

Too many skill players trying one-touch layoffs, one touch passes etc. No cohesiveness positionally. We usually have support players near the ball, but there's no fluidity or fluency to it. It's like they're being asked to just endlessly rotate, with no end route to goal.

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, offside but that team just works harder.

[MikeForbes]

Way off there.

[Amir.]

a bad pass by kaye ends in a third that is offside

[MikeForbes]

Yeh, offside but that team just works harder.

Just a good team constructed by elite scouting. Kai Wagner is a top 10 player in the league plucked from the German 3rd division.

[noxx98]

I’m going to pour myself a tall glass of wine. Going to need it tonight.
Thinking I’ll shift the Leafs game to the main screen

[Ultra & Proud]

Well we're not interested in this match anyway. You can see that almost nobody cares enough to match the Union intensity. I guess all it takes is a bit rain to make us want to just get back on the plane.

[jloome]

I feel like this system is designed to produce a million half chances, but rarely a direct shot on net.

[gracos]

we need to give the club time, how much time; i dont know, but time fixes all

[Oldtimer]

OgtheDim is right, I don't believe it.

[OgtheDim]

Shades of last season that.

[Bobo]

Holy smokes, is this an all-time bed-shitting? Someone wake Bob up.

[khso11]

Fuck this shit, it’s over, sub in the kids

[jloome]

Why is McNaughton higher than the center half on the ball? Jesus Christ that's bad positioning.

[MikeForbes]

We are just getting shredded. Our midfield is non existent and Rosted/MacNaughton might as well just leave the field.

[OgtheDim]

Richie defensively is not interested but why he has been the last guy 3 times now... that's an issue.

[JoesphNdo]

I wonder are the Italians not fit and out squad depth is just so bad that we had no choice but to trot them out anyway? This is far beyond any reasonable expectation of how bad we could be

[zorsofstesab]

For those who complained about Bradley and believed that an Oso/Kaye tandem were our future today should prove that 1 Bradley works harder then both our Canadians. Both our ball watching, multiple giveaways and chasing Union players towards our own goal. Never a good sign if you ask me.

[MikeForbes]

If I am the manager I am subbing off MacNaughton for O'Neill, Alonso for Oso or Kaye and Kerr for Insigne.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Misery has found TFC again. I blame the rain, the kit, BB…

[tfcfans]

Let’s assume most people care about a hockey result more than this nonsense at this point — I’m more upset that we waste one of our precious TSN games on this garbage instead of it being on Apple TV and the joy that whole process brings for me to get the game on my TV. Why anyone would keep watching TFC tonight is beyond me. I actually bet on us to lose 3-0 or 3-1 — clearly I underestimated our level of ineptitude tonight.

[Amir.]

kaye with another straight turnover pass...osorio is either clueless on proper defending or just doesnt apply it...you cant have both insigne and bernardeschi at forward in a 442...gotta have insigne in midfleld...got frustrated and started dropping back himself...this is when we realize how much bradley the best performer of the team is missed

[OgtheDim]

Hey we out possess them......

:hide:



**********

McNaughton regressed tonight & I think it might be because there is not decent DM in front of him.

[MDH]

The folks here desperately looking for an individual to blame on the pitch. It's clear to me that the issue is the complete lack of preparation. It's a Bob thing, we aren't ready for these games.

[jloome]

All I know is we've had mostly the same players (minus Servania) in the midfield and at forward for nearly year now, and they cannot move the ball cleanly and fluently.

We never switch play quickly. It's all just one touch advance the ball, one touich advance the ball.

I see LA play this system and they have players working at a higher rate, passing accurately and it works for them. There are still moments, when the ball is stuck to one side or the other, when it looks precarious. But it's not that the system can't work.

It just doesn't fit our players. And I don't know if that's going to change at this point.

There was a story yesterday with Tata Martino saying he fancied coaching in MLS again. Lifetime winning percentage in the top 20 all -time.

We're just so slow and uninterested defensively.

On most of the pitch, we're static, telegraphing everything. When the ball is delivered, the only two TFC players moving are the man on the ball and the guy he's passing to, so everything is easy for Philly to defend.

Nobody's holding up the ball, forcing Philly to foul. We just dump the ball as soon as we're under pressure because that's basically how this tactic is designed, for quick, short passes.

But it doesn't work unless the guys doing it are working at a high rate all the time, and we don't seem able to do this.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm not sold on Tata but at this point I would take him. I'd even take Berhalter.

Or Petke.

[tfcfans]

Toronto sucks at sports……a solid day all around…..

[OgtheDim]

...

We never switch play quickly. It's all just one touch advance the ball, one touich advance the ball... .

There was a 3 minute stretch there before the flood came where we got the ball out wide to Richie & suddenly had space. (this is why I don't think this game is a mark of how things will always go)

[los sonadores]

The centrebacks seemed not to recover their composure after the double own goal. Really chaotic. And yeah, there’s no one playing reliably in front of them.

Insigne is not a striker of any kind and not surprising under the circumstances that he’s dropping deep into the midfield to attempt to be of help.

Not sure who you put on in midfield. Coelho hasn’t looked comfortable when being pressed in any game he’s played. Though I like him with MB as a steady outlet who can play the ball forward reliably.

[Amir.]

o'neill and translator in for macnaughton bernardeschi

[noxx98]

Perruzza goal incoming, surely.

[MikeForbes]

I'm not sold on Tata but at this point I would take him. I'd even take Berhalter.

Or Petke.

Berhalter would be a blessing from soccer Jesus at this point. If Bradley goes, Manning goes though. Curtis was Bill's meat shield. This is his last call.

[Amir.]

kaye makes a five meter pass straight to the opponents feet

[OgtheDim]

Rush forward


Stop turn

Play ball back to covered defender


JMR is being Nelson tonight

[Amir.]

kaye makes another 2 turnovers in 30 seconds

[Mr. Inbetween]

Perruzza goal incoming, surely.

Almost! Almost.

[MikeForbes]

I hate this though. Manning will want to make Richie our third DP because he is Canadian. We already overpaid for Kaye because of his birth certificate. Selling tickets should not come before winning games.

[MikeForbes]

Absolute garbage.

[OgtheDim]

Berhalter is not all that good - like our defence, his teams can't deal with pace.

[613reppingTFC]

kaye makes another 2 turnovers in 30 seconds

And another Kaye giveaway leads to the 4th goal

[Amir.]

kaye easily loses the ball again and osorio doesnt cover his player and its 4-0

[portu]

Ouch ouch ouch - BB has to be on the rocks with this shitshow

[zorsofstesab]

Kaye giveaway at midfield. Now chasing back as Union on the attack. Oso blatant horrible defending and his man scores while he bounces off him. This performance has nothing to do with being prepared. They are paid professionals who clearly don't give a flying Fkuc or believe they are untouchable because of there Team Canada status.


For those who complained about Bradley and believed that an Oso/Kaye tandem were our future today should prove that 1 Bradley works harder then both our Canadians. Both our ball watching, multiple giveaways and chasing Union players towards our own goal. Never a good sign if you ask me.

[khso11]

MAK and Oso is the death of this midfield, pure definition of a turnover machine. Maybe they aren’t the players for this system for some reason.

Whoever thinks we’ll be fine with 2 DPs for the rest of the season, good luck.

[samuraizero]

I brought up kaye earlier and he was immediately defended and I was told he's our best midfielders in the last x games -- but all I've seen him "accomplish" is exactly what we're seeing tonight.
And if he's our best midfielder in the last x games, then we're in really sorry shape.

[613reppingTFC]

Also hopefully he is saving that last sub for Insigne. Coming off an injury should he be going the full 90 in weather like this?

[SoccMan2]

The best pro team in Ontario is Forge FC if they were to meet in the Canadian Championship which is very likely it’s going to be a very embarrassing night for TFC . The coach that should replace Bradley after tonight is the Forge coach .

[khso11]

Insigne! Now do that 4 more times

[Amir.]

well done insigne

[jloome]

Nice goal. Fucking meaningless at this point.

[noxx98]

Great dummy and goal there from Insigne. Insigne's back, now sub him off.

[tfcfans]

There’s that meaningful goal from Insigne that we’ve been looking for…..LOL….

[MikeForbes]

Insigne saving Bob's job.

[JoesphNdo]

Insignes been quietly pretty good this half, even outside the goal. He looks to be our only creative outlet. Perhaps writing him off for not doing enough in three halves of football was a tad premature

Him and fede fully fit can still somewhat carry even a team as bad as we look. I'm not sure how far, but bad as we are we are still not a write off in the east this season

But Jesus Christ we've been really really bad today

[Canary10]

He’s also playing incisive balls in the box. If we only had someone up front who could take them on the run.

[jloome]

Since we brought on Peruzza and began playing more patiently, it's been improved, but a big part of that is Philly is no longer pressing.

EDIT: Was no longer pressing. Now that we've scored they're back to full field.

[khso11]

I brought up kaye earlier and he was immediately defended and I was told he's our best midfielders in the last x games -- but all I've seen him "accomplish" is exactly what we're seeing tonight.
And if he's our best midfielder in the last x games, then we're in really sorry shape.

I think that he was defended because other midfielders were playing worse than him in the last few games. Tonight Kaye once again became one of the worse player on the field again.

[Yuushalinsky]

Look, the game isn't going so well but I've got some pretty kickass wings so I've got something going for me.

https://imgur.com/a/4Nc2MSjhttps://i.imgur.com/jToeTdC.jpg

[Fort York Redcoat]

The best pro team in Ontario is Forge FC if they were to meet in the Canadian Championship which is very likely it’s going to be a very embarrassing night for TFC . The coach that should replace Bradley after tonight is the Forge coach .

You don't know his name Steeltown? Pshaw

[OgtheDim]

Perruzza at least tries to make runs.

[khso11]

Why the fuck is Oso yelling at Coello there

[khso11]

Clear handball on Bedoya, should’ve been a PK

[OgtheDim]

Kinda enjoying this "give the ball to Insigne" thing.

[Amir.]

kaye makes an incredibly predictable and slow dribble in his half and its easily taken away...insigne out for thompson

[jloome]

Again a lot of times when we've been stripped tonight it's because the player insists on some little trick step or stepover to get space, or get a preferable turn.

Too often we just don't have clean movement. Everyone's receiving the ball under pressure, backing up the defender.

It's really worrying that they can be this piss poor.

[jloome]

Nice goal.

Maybe if we don't have two disaster goals to start the game...

Definitely seem to be taking a more patient approach in the second half. But that just means they were setup or instructed wrong to begin with, or just couldn't do it.

[OgtheDim]

It's really worrying that they can be this piss poor.


Chaos ball in the rain is how Philly likes to play. We don't handle the press well. Especially if Oso is off his game.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Oh. Good morning TFC.

[JoesphNdo]

I suspect alot of the improvement in the second half was just philly turning it way the hell down, we were absolutely piss poor overall

[OgtheDim]

I suspect alot of the improvement in the second half was just philly turning it way the hell down, we were absolutely piss poor overall

Yeh, after that 3rd goal, this was really just an souped up training exercise.

[reggie]

what is that 1 win in the last 20 or so games,but thats ok we have 23k ssh.that all that matters

[Ultra & Proud]

Especially if Oso is off his game.

Starting to think this Oso deal will be another anchor contract because we won't use the buyout on him.

[Loyal]

Osorio looks like a player that realizes he was not good enough to play in Europe and is sulking at our expense - literally!

[reggie]

we had the most overpaid backline a couple of years ago,now we have the 4 mil dollar slow has molasses midfield.and BB will not be fired while his son is still here

[Ultra & Proud]

BB will not be fired while his son is still here

He might just move upstairs but who would be manager? Somebody like Berhalter or another USMNT retread.

[MikeForbes]

I love Richie as a player, and what story he is, I just have a fear that these recent goals are gonna give him a DP spot.

[los sonadores]

I think that he was defended because other midfielders were playing worse than him in the last few games. Tonight Kaye once again became one of the worse player on the field again.

He had one excellent game with the highest pass competition rate (95%) in the league in 13 years for more than 110 passes attempted. Plus he won his duels and made key passes. Otherwise he’d been better than he had previously been.

Our entire midfield was not good tonight. Actually but for Kaye’s performance against Atlanta our midfield without MB has had only one half when it’s been decent. And I think it’s pretty clear that full pressing is the way to be successful against us. The upcoming NYRB game should be interesting.

[reggie]

He might just move upstairs but who would be manager? Somebody like Berhalter or another USMNT retread.
yup...somebody who is in mannings rolodex,BB is not FO material

[los sonadores]

I love Richie as a player, and what story he is, I just have a fear that these recent goals are gonna give him a DP spot.

I’d it’s going to be a low cost DP anyway I’d be okay with it being Ritchie. Without him we’d be not worth watching so far. But that’s only if Diomande works out. Otherwise, we need a striker.

[reggie]

He had one excellent game with the highest pass competition rate (95%) in the league in 13 years for more than 110 passes attempted. Plus he won his duels and made key passes. Otherwise he’d been better than he had previously been.

Our entire midfield was not good tonight. Actually but for Kaye’s performance against Atlanta our midfield without MB has had only one half when it’s been decent. And I think it’s pretty clear that full pressing is the way to be successful against us. The upcoming NYRB game should be interesting.

he had 1 good game in 9 ,he has been dreadful

[Initial B]

I'm really curious if BB spoke postgame and what his thoughts were. I'm also wondering if there was reporter there to ask him hard questions.

[los sonadores]

I'm really curious if BB spoke postgame and what his thoughts were. I'm also wondering if there was reporter there to ask him hard questions.

Yeah I’d like to hear what he has to say, also. The reporters are zoomed in but they don’t often ask hard questions… I guess we’ll see.

[Ultra & Proud]

he had 1 good game in 9 ,he has been dreadful

He's actually gotten better minus today. He's been better than Osorio. Better than Servania overall. His passing was shit today but so was everyone elses.

Comes back to what was mentioned earlier by JLoome I think; Bob isn't setting us up to win. If anyone looks good it's usually in spite of the gameplan rather than because of it.

[Derko]

I really think MAK is the new Delgado, but at least Degado hustled back when he lost the ball. MAK is a useless signing as far as I am concerned, he was a CMT bench strength paleyer when we signed him, shit game all around,

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm really curious if BB spoke postgame and what his thoughts were. I'm also wondering if there was reporter there to ask him hard questions.

He said they didn't come out the way they planned, had no intensity, and didn't match the Philly press but he made it sound like none of that was in any way his fault.

[Richard]

9 points out of 9 games is abysmal.

We dont get 3 points next game things are going to spiral, New England have a good team, you don't want 1 win in 11 games. We are dangerously close to Arron Winter type run.....

[los sonadores]

I really think MAK is the new Delgado, but at least Degado hustled back when he lost the ball. MAK is a useless signing as far as I am concerned, he was a CMT bench strength paleyer when we signed him, shit game all around,

What was wrong with Delgado? Or continues to be wrong with him? I know LAG are in serious trouble at the moment but last season he was an important part of maybe the best midfield in the league.

[los sonadores]

He said they didn't come out the way they planned, had no intensity, and didn't match the Philly press but he made it sound like none of that was in any way his fault.

To be fair, later he said something perhaps of note to some posters in this board: “you can’t win a game like that because at times you move the ball quick.” Later he said that in a game with Philly “possession doesn’t matter”. And he catalogued just about everything that, if we had done, we would have made a good game of it.

Not what it was the reason for the embarrassing showing but from the start I didn’t like the idea of the two Italians up front. Bernie as a nine - okay - but both guys in a 4-4-2 against Philly doesn’t sound likely to me. We looked so much better with Peruzza in the middle and Insigne on the left coming inside. Not having a striker who’s been capable of scoring a goal is going to always make it an uphill battle.

[Hala Hrvatska]

BB and Manning that was definitely not a game played in a "good way". Humiliating. Dominated. Embarrassed. Exposed. Disinterested. Overran. Schoolboyish. Heartless. Zero intensity. Overmatched. Lost. Garbage. Shocking. I don't know what else I can add. Watching that first half, have we in our history ever looked worse? Even the Armas DC debacle wasn't that bad.

And mind you, this was WITH the Italians. We literally got sliced open every single time. They rang one off the bar, missed other chances. I think now we are in 12th (if I recall said during the game). And mind you, Philly had a huge game this week in Concacaf that their minds were on...had they kept up the intensity, could have been into 7 or 8 goals against territory.

My God, how bad some of our players are. We are what the highest or one of the highest payroll teams i the league and again out of the playoffs wiht 1 win all year. 9 points out of 27 and look completely horrible. No tactics, no defensive structure, zero fight in our players, zero abilty on the ball outside of the Italinas, zero awareness around the team as it gets carved up with ease.

Sorry for the rant, but that was rock bottom. Bradley must go this morning. Manning this morning. Enough. No more time. No more windows. No more running us into the ground. Enough. Fix this s.hit MLSE. Now.

[Hala Hrvatska]

He said they didn't come out the way they planned, had no intensity, and didn't match the Philly press but he made it sound like none of that was in any way his fault.

Again BB not taking accountability for the mess HE created. Get rid of this clueless clown. He is making a mockery of this team and us fans.

[Canary10]

We couldn’t handle the press. Every goal came off mistakes from pressure. We don’t have a team that can play through it. Should have just lobbed long balls over it to Insigne and Berna and let them make things happen.

[OgtheDim]

Post game videos found at the bottom of the team's main page

&


https://www.torontofc.ca/video/postgame-sound-bob-bradley-april-22-2023#postgame-sound-bob-bradley-april-22-2023

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/postgame-sound-bob-bradley-april-22-2023#postgame-sound-jonathan-osorio-april-22-2023

[ensco]

So, I have only watched the highlight package… reading all this dire commentary on here, was this really the apocalypse, or was it maybe just a bad day at the office that should be forgotten, fast..?

This reminded me of our Charlotte game last year… except us in the role of Charlotte. Two kind of flukey goals early just completely deflated us, allowed the other guys to just be free, be comfortable.

[JoesphNdo]

So, I have only watched the highlight package… reading all this dire commentary on here, was this really the apocalypse, or was it maybe just a bad day at the office that should be forgotten, fast..?

This reminded me of our Charlotte game last year… except us in the role of Charlotte. Two kind of flukey goals early just completely deflated us, allowed the other guys to just be free, be comfortable.

I suspect highlights made it look better then it was. It's never the apocalypse and it's only ever just one game for sure, but this one game was bad, really really bad. Up until philly scored their fourth and just stopped trying it's as one sided a loss as I can remember, they absolutely steam rolled us. We looked like a non league team playing a cup game away to Barcelona

We will not be that bad all season, but we were bad. Really, really bad.

[Ultra & Proud]

So, I have only watched the highlight package… reading all this dire commentary on here, was this really the apocalypse, or was it maybe just a bad day at the office that should be forgotten, fast..?

This reminded me of our Charlotte game last year… except us in the role of Charlotte. Two kind of flukey goals early just completely deflated us, allowed the other guys to just be free, be comfortable.

No, we were terrible from the moment it started. We had no answer to the press and nobody could pick out a pass including the Italians. No shots in the first half and not a ton of chances created after Philly took their foot off the gas. It wasn't a one off but more so like a magnification of what we've been doing poorly all season long.

I think as long as Bob is manager we will be mediocre. The lack of a CF is an excuse and won't change anything. A prime time DP CF would just be starved of service up top since we can't move the ball with any intent into dangerous areas. If that were the only problem then we'd have chances that whoever our CF was, would be blowing. Now they barely get a sniff. Even Insigne & Bernardeschi have to drop back deep to get touches or they'd be anonymous out there.

[ensco]

^OK thanks.

It didn’t look good on the highlights either…

[Kamp Berg]

Last night Martinez proved how important a real DM is.

[OgtheDim]

So, I have only watched the highlight package… reading all this dire commentary on here, was this really the apocalypse, or was it maybe just a bad day at the office that should be forgotten, fast..?

This reminded me of our Charlotte game last year… except us in the role of Charlotte. Two kind of flukey goals early just completely deflated us, allowed the other guys to just be free, be comfortable.

All games turn on goals.

We were being pressed hard but coping. There was a 3 minute period once we got through their press where we applied pressure around the box but didn't get a shot off. However, we played into the strength of their press by continually trying to recycle the ball backwards once to find a space to go forward. When you play the press, you have to move the ball forward continuously - you have to search for the outlet forwards - a pass back out creates more pressure. JMR & Servania were both bad at this in particular which led to a lot of turnovers on our left side.

That and, McNaughton in particular, could not handle their vertical attack speed - Philly get the ball and launch it forward, at pace.

The first goal was a joke - who knows what would have happened if that hadn't gone in. If Philly doesn't score, they tend to stop pressing around the 30th minute - that's where we needed to get to and didn't. If we could have gone in down 1-0...would have been a different game.

The second goal was typical Philly chaos and I blame that on nobody at the back beyond Johnson being a leader. T

The 3rd goal was watching a repeat of 2022, as was the 4th.

The second half was a glorified training match.


We need a DM - many of us have been saying this for years. Sometimes, MAK can be DM like when teamed with MB - that was Delgado's role. But without MB & given MB's lack of closing speed, we now need that DM to anchor in front of the defence.

I'd consider that as important as our need for a true Centre Forward.

Insigne was impossible to see until Philly gave the mids space to pass to him. Insigne is very good if you can get him the ball. Servania & JMR & Petretta couldn't do that.

[JosephFC]

All games turn on goals.

We were being pressed hard but coping. There was a 3 minute period once we got through their press where we applied pressure around the box but didn't get a shot off. However, we played into the strength of their press by continually trying to recycle the ball backwards once to find a space to go forward. When you play the press, you have to move the ball forward continuously - you have to search for the outlet forwards - a pass back out creates more pressure. JMR & Servania were both bad at this in particular which led to a lot of turnovers on our left side.

That and, McNaughton in particular, could not handle their vertical attack speed - Philly get the ball and launch it forward, at pace.

The first goal was a joke - who knows what would have happened if that hadn't gone in. If Philly doesn't score, they tend to stop pressing around the 30th minute - that's where we needed to get to and didn't. If we could have gone in down 1-0...would have been a different game.

The second goal was typical Philly chaos and I blame that on nobody at the back beyond Johnson being a leader. T

The 3rd goal was watching a repeat of 2022, as was the 4th.

The second half was a glorified training match.


We need a DM - many of us have been saying this for years. Sometimes, MAK can be DM like when teamed with MB - that was Delgado's role. But without MB & given MB's lack of closing speed, we now need that DM to anchor in front of the defence.

I'd consider that as important as our need for a true Centre Forward.

Insigne was impossible to see until Philly gave the mids space to pass to him. Insigne is very good if you can get him the ball. Servania & JMR & Petretta couldn't do that.
No mention of Mark-Anthony and Oso who has had a horrible start to the season, I think in the long run we will regret the deal that was given Oso.

[OgtheDim]

I would note this sort of thing happens to every team - team knows what it needs to do when going to another team's park and doesn't do it.

The response next week is important. I said already that I expect a win next week - NYC is doing well...at home. But they can't play their style away from home and we should be in with a shout to play our game.

But if there is no response...then we got issues.

Watch the Oso video - he's asked about the room & takes time to talk about it. There isn't a problem in the room with people not knowing what they need to do but there continues to be this "we can't figure it out" mentality when the team isn't allowed to play the way they want to play. Jloome has called this arrogance - I call it tunnel vision. "If we can't play our way, we are stumped" I know every team sort of does this but there comes a time when you just have to figure out how to win.

[MikeForbes]

Ayo not seeing the field in a game where we need goals is pretty damning and shows that Bob could very well be losing patience with him.

[jloome]

^OK thanks.

It didn’t look good on the highlights either…

Og's right, we're just trying to stick round pegs in square holes.

I watch this exact same offense work for LAFC.... most of the time. When it doesn't, like their draw yesterday, they look a lot like us.

The thing is, they have tough, quick players.

We have soft, slow technicians.

We were actually better yesterday when we stuck younger players in who were just doing what they were told, not attempting to run into space constantly, or do something on the ball, just progress it. Look for the best advanced option and pass to them. Pass, move, pass, move.

But we don't move as a team, and we don't move the ball as a team.

Our players get into tight spaces and instead of advancing to the next runner, or switching field -- or even knowing where the pass is supposed to go before the ball reaches them -- they panic.

They either pass backwards, losing field position to pressuring defense, or they back up the defender in a hold-up position then attempt to turn and run. I can't count how many times we got stripped yesterday by Oso and Kaye trying to turn against two defenders.

Nobody in our midfield plays with grit, no one gets stuck in on tackles, no one even seems able to prepare for their next pass before the ball arrives (other than Coelho, who seems to instictively look for the next pass before it gets there. Didn't help him yesterday as his passing wasn't so hot).

Everyone wants to run with the ball.

We just seem unable to cope with speed and pressure. I said "arrogant" before and I still think it's arrogant. It's like our players think they're all Messi.

The way Bob is setting us up plays into and exacerbates this problem. We're too vertical and too sloppy with our short play. Even when we advance the ball, it's only a few feet at a time to a passing runner, and we're too backward and slow when under pressure.

We don't use enough of the pitch and we rarely switch field. We should be using the switch to break the press, have established positional and pattern play to do so that fits with our other tactics. WE don't.

It looks similar, again, to the problem Jesse Marsch had at Leeds, where he kept insisting they play "narrow" and vertical, and as a result, every time they set up in the opponents end, they face a low block of their own design.

WIth us, we constrain everyone to this short "pass and move" rotational system, and we only use a tiny, very congested area of the pitch to transition as a result.

And we just don't have the quickness most of the time to pull it off. And that's despite the team usually passing around an 80% clip.

Yesterday, we had more than 500 passes, an 80% pass rate and we had about 60% of the possession. None of that mattered dick diddly.

In the second half, when they weren't really pressuring as much, we spread the play more and used both sides of the pitch. We had outlets to wide players. Even after Philly resumed pressing, after our goal, we were still in it. Of course, had they cared nearly as much maybe we wouldn't have been.

It's the tactic. It works in LA because they're tough, they pass accurately and they're quick.

We're not, we don't and we aren't.

We have lots of skill. We do not have lots of speed or strength. We are a macrocosm of Oso, basically: rather than flattering to deceive, we deceive to flatter. We have an occasional brilliant stretch or game, but most of the time our players aren't up to playing both ways, quickly enough or accurately enough.

At a team Bob could build from scratch, they had 57 points in LAFC's first season, playing with this exact set of tactics.

But this is not a team he has built from scratch, and he is clearly not adapting enough to make up for that.

Oso has been terrible this season; as in, he should sit for a game and get some perspective on the speed things are actually moving at, and stop holding onto the ball for so goddamned long.

Mark-Anthony Kaye had the same problem yesterday. He had a couple of good interceptions and was doing okay early on compared to the others, but then fell apart by continually holding the ball too long or passing backwards, even though Philly was eating up that ground with sprinting.

Servania looks like a decent young player but probably not a starter at a good team. He's in and out of games, he runs a lot.

We missed Michael yesterday, but I don't think it would've made much difference. When speed, or lack thereof, is a big part of the issue, having another slow midfielder -- even one good in traffic -- probably wasn't going to help.

I think at the right team -- one he has built from scratch -- Bob is probably worth his weight in his awards and resume. But he is a system coach, not an adapter, and his system does not fit our roster.

If I'm Manning -- and people who get him better than I do seem sure he won't do this, but anyway -- I would be on the phone today with Tata Martino's agent.

He wants to come back to MLS and is presently unemployed. He is one of the winningest managers in world football history, literally. He has a better-than-50% win rate at teams across Spain, South America and MLS, which is unheard of among managers.

And he is an ADAPTER. He works with what he has to make the team better. We all saw what he did in two years at Atlanta.

[JoesphNdo]

Said it elsewhere but sadly id be shocked if Tata doesn't goto Miami for a whole load of reasons. In fact id be shocked if they weren't negotiating and closing on that as we speak

If he's available, absolutely to get him but I'm doubtful we'd be in the running

[ensco]

I always thought this was curious - and wondered who the audience for this really was…

https://twitter.com/felipecar/status/1596141485967249408?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w

[Smokecell]

At the moment Oso has to be competing with Rigioni in Austin for the worst DP spend in MLS.

I know he had a knock coming into the season so I thought that was the reason for his lack of fitness, but we are 9 games in and he looks out of shape and tracks back at a leisurely pace. It’s not a good look. In fact, I think a lot of what Kilbane said about Bradley losing a step applies to Osorio as well.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ayo not seeing the field in a game where we need goals is pretty damning and shows that Bob could very well be losing patience with him.

Unless there's a trade in the works before Monday. That's what I figured.

[jloome]

At the moment Oso has to be competing with Rigioni in Austin for the worst DP spend in MLS.

I know he had a knock coming into the season so I thought that was the reason for his lack of fitness, but we are 9 games in and he looks out of shape and tracks back at a leisurely pace. It’s not a good look. In fact, I think a lot of what Kilbane said about Bradley losing a step applies to Osorio as well.

I just feel he's trying to do too much when he's on the ball, and he's not tough enough defensively when he's off it.

He can't play shoulder-to-shoulder anymore; he doesn't even go into those sort of challenges the way he used to. If I had to guess, the head injury has left him with some subconscious doubt about how "hard" he can go into things.

He's killing us in transition by never receiving the ball on the roll and finding the next man upfield, always trying to control, turn and run into space, as if he needs to single-handedly eat up yards, which isn't good.

[Joe Kool]

I thought we were in trouble from the moment they showed the starting lineup with Rutty on the LW and Insigne in the middle. Playing players out of position is always a problem. Rutty was invisible and there was a big difference when Insigne finally was put in his proper position. We are lucky Philly took their foot off the pedal in the 2nd half. They cut through us at will. We looked like an unorganized team with guys scrambling everywhere. Horrible game.

[Kamp Berg]

I thought we were in trouble from the moment they showed the starting lineup with Rutty on the LW and Insigne in the middle. Playing players out of position is always a problem. Rutty was invisible and there was a big difference when Insigne finally was put in his proper position. We are lucky Philly took their foot off the pedal in the 2nd half. They cut through us at will. We looked like an unorganized team with guys scrambling everywhere. Horrible game.

Yeah, I thought the strangest past was subbing Thompson into Insigne’s natural position. Why wouldn’t Thompson go into the central midfield when coming on and move JMR back to the wing? Isn’t Thompson’s natural position CM?

[Areathrasher]

I always thought this was curious - and wondered who the audience for this really was…

https://twitter.com/felipecar/status/1596141485967249408?s=61&t=m37cT46Agnuvoekh9VGF_w
The Athletic has an interview with him last week. Said he turned down the Boca job as he didn't want the pressure after the Mexico gig. Could see here being appealing to him given those comments

[OgtheDim]

For what its worth,

https://twitter.com/OptaJack/status/1650595968805654529

[reggie]

For what its worth,

https://twitter.com/OptaJack/status/1650595968805654529

i hope manning didnt see this he may give him a DP contract

[los sonadores]

Doyle’s take:

The Union, meanwhile, are still alive in CCL playing and harboring continental dreams, and put forward the type of performance you’d want to have in the days before a semifinal showdown against still-unbeaten LAFC. This one was a laugher, and TFC ‘keeper Sean Johnson gave us our Face of the Week:

Philly dominated in central midfield, creating turnovers that then sprung center forward Mikael Uhre into space again and again and again. Add in a truly hilarious own goal, and that’s how you get four.

TFC were spared some blushes by one banger from Lorenzo Insigne and another from Richie Laryea, but this team’s roster build approach of spending damn near everything on the top of the roster and damn near nothing on depth is starting to look like a very, very bad plan. And it’s being exacerbated by a weird inability to develop the talent on hand, which is the thing, I would argue, Bob Bradley’s been best at over the course of his career.

We’re talking all-time greats like Carlos Bocanegra, DaMarcus Beasley, Ante Razov, Rico Clark, young Michael Bradley, Mike Magee, Eddie Gaven, Sacha Kljestan, Brad Guzan, Eddie Atuesta, Diego Rossi… everywhere Bradley’s been, both in MLS and overseas – even Chivas USA! – he’s taken young players and made them better.

That’s not happened with any of the kids in Toronto. It absolutely needs to or this team is not going to make the playoffs.

[Initial B]

I read that and it just makes me wonder whether that's Bob's fault, or it's just that our Academy coaches just suck at developing players from the GTA, or is it that the grassroots clubs are still hoarding their best players and telling them to go straight to Europe than spend time in TFCA.

[jloome]

Doyle’s take:

The Union, meanwhile, are still alive in CCL playing and harboring continental dreams, and put forward the type of performance you’d want to have in the days before a semifinal showdown against still-unbeaten LAFC. This one was a laugher, and TFC ‘keeper Sean Johnson gave us our Face of the Week:

Philly dominated in central midfield, creating turnovers that then sprung center forward Mikael Uhre into space again and again and again. Add in a truly hilarious own goal, and that’s how you get four.

TFC were spared some blushes by one banger from Lorenzo Insigne and another from Richie Laryea, but this team’s roster build approach of spending damn near everything on the top of the roster and damn near nothing on depth is starting to look like a very, very bad plan. And it’s being exacerbated by a weird inability to develop the talent on hand, which is the thing, I would argue, Bob Bradley’s been best at over the course of his career.

We’re talking all-time greats like Carlos Bocanegra, DaMarcus Beasley, Ante Razov, Rico Clark, young Michael Bradley, Mike Magee, Eddie Gaven, Sacha Kljestan, Brad Guzan, Eddie Atuesta, Diego Rossi… everywhere Bradley’s been, both in MLS and overseas – even Chivas USA! – he’s taken young players and made them better.

That’s not happened with any of the kids in Toronto. It absolutely needs to or this team is not going to make the playoffs.

1) all but atuesta on that list are more than a decade ago.
2) He's not a field coach here. Maybe he used to do that more.

Maybe one of the problems is he's running a much bigger set of responsibilities at a bigger company, and his assistants aren't getting the job done.

Did players get dramatically better under Stalteri at York? I have no idea.

[613reppingTFC]

1) all but atuesta on that list are more than a decade ago.
2) He's not a field coach here. Maybe he used to do that more.

Maybe one of the problems is he's running a much bigger set of responsibilities at a bigger company, and his assistants aren't getting the job done.

Did players get dramatically better under Stalteri at York? I have no idea.

Wouldn't Rossi also count as he went to LAFC when he was 20, same age as Atuesta when he went to LAFC. Quite possibly they were developed before they even arrived there and Bob just found them at a good time.
But i get what you're saying, he might not carry out the same responsibilities that he did all those years ago. It's true, maybe the youth don't see TFCA as a place to develop and just a roadblock to getting over to Europe so we are left with what you could say is 2nd best and trying to develop those kids?

[ag futbol]

I am critical of Bob for a lot of things but I give him pretty well full marks for how he’s treated the academy kids. He’s played them all more than anyone else would (the amount of minutes handed out last year was huge).

The academy staff just can’t produce an MLS ready player to save their lives. It’s like we have to teach what being a pro means to these kids once they reach the first team.

[Ultra & Proud]

I am critical of Bob for a lot of things but I give him pretty well full marks for how he’s treated the academy kids. He’s played them all more than anyone else would (the amount of minutes handed out last year was huge).

The academy staff just can’t produce an MLS ready player to save their lives. It’s like we have to teach what being a pro means to these kids once they reach the first team.
Nobody can say he doesn't give them a chance. If he shuffles them off to oblivion then they probably earned it. I was hoping with Bob here they would overhaul the academy but it seems the same. The first team is like the final stage of the academy for these kids and then they either sink or swim, usually sink.

[Ultra & Proud]

Did players get dramatically better under Stalteri at York? I have no idea.

Didn't they just get worse & worse year to year so far in their existence?

Going to say our first team assistants aren't that great either. One of the reasons I kind of wanted Tata here is because he'd probably clean house and bring in all his crew to run things. Maybe keep a couple back roomers or whatnot around to translate if any of them speak Spanish.

[jloome]

The mentality still just seems off with a lot of Canadian players. I'm not sure why that is. Elitism and a sense of privilege are big in the U.S., too, because they've had the academy system as their primary feeder for years.

Maybe they're just a little ahead of us in getting them to toughen up and have humility about their current abilities. Not their potential, their present.

We seem to either get players like Ralph and Jordan, neither of whom could be accused of lacking confidence, or guys who just seem deer-in-the-headlights. Worse, we often draft players like that.

And others, we somehow get wrong anyway. Griffin Dorsey, whom I believe we gave one game, has 32 starts in Houston last season and this. Granted, it's Houston. But we don't have depth. We let him go, we let Lovitz go, we let a lot of decent young players go.

So it's not that we never get the talent to work with. Maybe it's just that before Bez they were laissez-faire crooked and incompetent, and since then, they've just been the latter. We have NOT had good training. It seems apparent.

[OgtheDim]

Doyle is a content creator

If TFC isn't doing well, what's the reason is something he has to discuss

As a guy who loves the "play the kids" story lines, not surprised Doyle reached for that.


BB's been here 18 months.

Last year, most of the kids played, not his ones brought in, were given a good trial & failed - 1 transferred out to Europe (Nelson), 3 kept that are playing periodically (JMR & Kerr & Peruzza) - rest hanging around

Who this year is a kid who got worse that Doyle can point to?


Nah, Doyle is reaching for stuff here

[FootBallAZ]

this is becoming a joke- my account rep said give it this year- new guys will be added, performance will be better than the two previous years, you will see why the 40% increase and increase in beer will be justified.

Ive never been so turned off to watch TFC - and its heartbreaking.