Match Day 6 - Charlotte @ TFC - Saturday April 1 7:38pm - Fool If You Think Its Over

[OgtheDim]

It's Just Begun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aZBqrHs4qo&ab_channel=ChrisRea


***********

Have At It People

[OgtheDim]

My gawd....I hadn't listened to this in 45 years -

a song for the teenage girls in the donut shop smoking players lights & wondering if they will ever get over that weekend's drama in the last few rows of the movie theatre....

(application to post game - during game feelings may or may not apply)

[Canary10]

We're on a 4 game unbeaten run....

[SenorDingDong]

Insigne back for this one with the red hair?

[jloome]

Insigne back for this one with the red hair?

I'm guessing they'll make him wait a full month. Groin tears are finicky and prone to repeat.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm guessing they'll make him wait a full month. Groin tears are finicky and prone to repeat.
The dye job is making me wonder if it's sooner but then again there just could be some PR or advertising opportunity and he thinks that's cool for it.

[jloome]

The dye job is making me wonder if it's sooner but then again there just could be some PR or advertising opportunity and he thinks that's cool for it.

I think it was a direct response to that Turkey bullshit.

[OgtheDim]

I think it was a direct response to that Turkey bullshit.

Yeh, it was the "taking it seriously" by both league talking heads & some local "journos" that I think caused that response.

[los sonadores]

Yeh, it was the "taking it seriously" by both league talking heads & some local "journos" that I think caused that response.

Maybe all the players should get the same do. Increases the red quotient to offset the lack in our jerseys. Either that or we hire some cheerleaders and dress them in red.

(And yeah, one thing to always be thankful about as a TFC fan is not having to endure much in the way of religious gimmicks. No cheerleaders, Christian church bells, or revolutionary soldiers firing off muskets!)

[James17930]

Maybe all the players should get the same do. Increases the red quotient to offset the lack in our jerseys. Either that or we hire some cheerleaders and dress them in red.

(And yeah, one thing to always be thankful about as a TFC fan is not having to endure much in the way of religious gimmicks. No cheerleaders, Christian church bells, or revolutionary soldiers firing off muskets!)

Maybe MB can paint his head :lol:

[OgtheDim]

Maybe all the players should get the same do. Increases the red quotient to offset the lack in our jerseys. Either that or we hire some cheerleaders and dress them in red.

(And yeah, one thing to always be thankful about as a TFC fan is not having to endure much in the way of religious gimmicks. No cheerleaders, Christian church bells, or revolutionary soldiers firing off muskets!)

Oh, we have our own religious order of service

An entry song

A welcoming of each player

A song done each game at a certain time

A clap done each game at a certain time

A celebratory thank you at the end of the game

[Kamp Berg]

I hope the Canadian international players return with increased motivation to win. Seems like international duty can be a real two-headed beast.

[Yuushalinsky]

I hope the Canadian international players return with increased motivation to win. Seems like international duty can be a real two-headed beast.

it's pretty good that they'll be playing the game in TO so the boys will get some rest.

[Oldtimer]

My gawd....I hadn't listened to this in 45 years -

a song for the teenage girls in the donut shop smoking players lights & wondering if they will ever get over that weekend's drama in the last few rows of the movie theatre....

(application to post game - during game feelings may or may not apply)

I'll raise you something older (on a similar theme)... back to the 70's...


http://youtu.be/9hJCr9cq5co

The late Karen Carpenter was an amazing singer and a pretty good drummer too.

We can think back to the era of the Toronto Metros-Croatia and the original NASL.

[los sonadores]

Oh, we have our own religious order of service

An entry song

A welcoming of each player

A song done each game at a certain time

A clap done each game at a certain time

A celebratory thank you at the end of the game

Ah, true. Subtler and more various… or maybe it’s just that’s they’re at my home ground, haha. But I would still say no gimics… claps, singing, etc are knitted into the game and involve no added hardware, pieces, etc…. at most a drum borrowed for a few minutes from the supporters.

Hmm, but what about the expensive and nerve wracking series of explosions at the top. Doesn’t seem like tradition and I’d rather attend a battle on the pitch not an actual military battle. Do people like that stuff?

[OgtheDim]

What? You didn't like the drones at the north end for the first game?

(I especially liked the one that looked like it had been shot down)

[los sonadores]

What? You didn't like the drones at the north end for the first game?

(I especially liked the one that looked like it had been shot down)

I’m happy to say I missed those, haha. Got to my seat just before kickoff.

[613reppingTFC]

I was sitting in the first few rows of the upper East stands and couldn't even see the drones. They were obstructed from the roof overhang

[OgtheDim]

So....weather, eh?
https://today.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/winter_runner_ss_90631087.jpg

[SenorDingDong]

Insigne was on the BMO training field yesterday with the red hair, putting in some laps.

Weather for Saturday looks interesting. High of 13C in the afternoon and then dropping pretty rapidly at night.

[Yuushalinsky]

If Ayo is feeling better, I am not opposed to seeing what he's got this match - Looks like that half yesterday gave him some inspiration.

[Yuushalinsky]

Looking at the forecast, if it's a thunderous day all day Saturday, I have a feeling this game gets moved.

[Joe Kool]

Looking at the forecast, if it's a thunderous day all day Saturday, I have a feeling this game gets moved.

Quite the temp swing in the forecast from day to night from Environment Canada. Problem with moved games is they don't call them for weather until it is game time and everyone is there.



Sat, 1 Apr
Showers. Windy. High 11.


Night
Cloudy periods with 40 percent chance of flurries. Low minus 8.

[Yuushalinsky]

Quite the temp swing in the forecast from day to night from Environment Canada. Problem with moved games is they don't call them for weather until it is game time and everyone is there.



Sat, 1 Apr
Showers. Windy. High 11.


Night
Cloudy periods with 40 percent chance of flurries. Low minus 8.




I was seeing some forecasts call for thunderstorms - it is not looking like good weather whatsoever unfortunately.

[OgtheDim]

Enviro Canada doesn't work out 72 hours ahead but the Weather Network does.

Toronto Islands

They say rain all day, but not heavy with winds up to but stopping around 6 - game time heading towards 5 degrees with clear breaks but 32 km NW winds.

Bring your rain gear if you sit anywhere.

[OgtheDim]

Apple Commentators for this game (game is "free" on Apple TV)

Nate Bukaty and Kyndra De St. Aubin


Former SKC play by play

Colour for the Loons





You might want to find the Spanish as I would put these two among the least remarkable/capable.

*********

Game also on TSN4 & RDS

I would rather have a root canal then hear Caldwell soooo......

[Joe Kool]

Enviro Canada doesn't work out 72 hours ahead but the Weather Network does.

Toronto Islands

They say rain all day, but not heavy with winds up to but stopping around 6 - game time heading towards 5 degrees with clear breaks but 32 km NW winds.

Bring your rain gear if you sit anywhere.

That is why I quoted the source...don't shoot the messenger :) I have learned over the years to not fully believe any forecast until the morning of the game.

[leedsandTFC]

looks like petretta back in training.

[Mr. Inbetween]

looks like petretta back in training.

Which suggests? Opinion… Still out this match or on the bench; a late sub?

[jloome]

Which suggests? Opinion… Still out this match or on the bench; a late sub?

Good question. He's looked really good going forward so far, a little lightweight going back. Still, we're covered now anyway.

[jloome]

I suspect Matthew Doyle's "numbers" column on our game this week may be the most irrelevant thing ever written on mlssoccer.com:

"Bob Bradley hasn’t gotten his Toronto side pressing like LAFC (https://www.mlssoccer.com/clubs/los-angeles-football-club/) used to. Thus far they’ve generated only 128 sequences that started in the attacking third, second-fewest in the league per game behind only an Orlando side that’s been juggling lineups. Charlotte (https://www.mlssoccer.com/clubs/charlotte-fc/) are sixth in that stat. They’re a more dedicated pressing team than folks seem to realize."

That's it. No clarification or point on why a team would definitely always want to press, or what's troublesome about us not doing it as often as his other team. It doesn't occur to him in the slightest that different players might equate to a different approach.

[los sonadores]

Given the lack of TFC coverage if anyone feels like reading the Charlotte version of Beezer (minus the opening line joke), here’s their pregame report:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-fc/article273772940.html#storylink=mainstage_lead

[los sonadores]

And another Doyle column reposted here because we’re now playing Charlotte. With Bronico suspended and Westwood injured I wonder how they’ll play?

I had a look at the highlights on MLS.com from Charlotte’s last match but they’re edited so tightly to shots and fouls with no build up at all that they have no context and not much can be gleaned about what’s going on.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/charlotte-fc-in-shambles-nycfc-s-offense-clicks-more-from-matchday-3

[OgtheDim]

About that red card given out by Disco

Looked like one at the time & the 360 pundits including their ref pundit. Studs straight to the shin - could broke his leg.

The ref at the time didn't even give a yellow.

Charlotte COULD have used their once a year "take a second look at this please" option but chose not to - tells you what they ACTUALLY think of it.

[los sonadores]

Good question. He's looked really good going forward so far, a little lightweight going back. Still, we're covered now anyway.

Yeah, wasn’t long ago those positions seemed less than adequate. With Richie, Petretta, Gutierrez, JMR and Franklin things are looking good. We’ll see what happens with Ritchie and his loan. He’d still be a big loss, I’d expect, if he goes. For obvious reasons and because he’s the one that can comfortably play both sides.

[Red CB Toronto]

Hopefully Guti can make his TFC debut this weekend.

[jloome]

Hopefully Guti can make his TFC debut this weekend.

Man.... don't do that! I just had a frantic search for us dropping third dp money on Guti.

Shouldn't the more famous one be dead before we start calling ours that?

[Ultra & Proud]

That's it. No clarification or point on why a team would definitely always want to press, or what's troublesome about us not doing it as often as his other team. It doesn't occur to him in the slightest that different players might equate to a different approach.


I guess because Bob is our manager we have to to the LAFC press no matter what players we have on the roster or who might be available. Forget about the fact that is wasn't working. Just keep doing it.

[Kamp Berg]

I guess because Bob is our manager we have to to the LAFC press no matter what players we have on the roster or who might be available. Forget about the fact that is wasn't working. Just keep doing it.

Doyle has the worst case of confirmation bias, it’s takes him forever to adjust once he gets an idea in his head.

[Red CB Toronto]

Alonso has been signed to another short term deal for tomorrow. He was quite impressive last weekend. Wonder who is still out as I assume all the internationals are back, any of those out this weekend?

[los sonadores]

Alonso has been signed to another short term deal for tomorrow. He was quite impressive last weekend. Wonder who is still out as I assume all the internationals are back, any of those out this weekend?

Maybe Bob’s thinking of not playing either Oso or Kaye the full 90? Or does an emergency situation has to be proven to the league to make one of these kinds of call ups?

[Red CB Toronto]

Maybe Bob’s thinking of not playing either Oso or Kaye the full 90? Or does an emergency situation has to be proven to the league to make one of these kinds of call ups?

No, you do not need to justifying anything to sign someone anymore like you had to in the past.

[los sonadores]

No, you do not need to justifying anything to sign someone anymore like you had to in the past.

Ah, thanks. Then, yeah, why not keep him around for another week?

[jloome]

Maybe Bob’s thinking of not playing either Oso or Kaye the full 90? Or does an emergency situation has to be proven to the league to make one of these kinds of call ups?

I imagine. Oso had two games this week, effectively, already. At least then they have cover if he's leggy.

[rydermike]

Molinaro has an article about how TFC was able to re-sign Coello to another deal. I haven't subscribed yet, so can't read it though
https://www.tfcrepublic.ca/tfc-mls-rules-alonso-loans/

[OgtheDim]

According to that article short term loan players can max out at 2 games appearances.

So Coello playing tomorrow means he is maxed out & would have to either come up under hardship rules (less then 16 outfield roster players available) or be signed.

[los sonadores]

According to that article short term loan players can max out at 2 games appearances.

So Coello playing tomorrow means he is maxed out & would have to either come up under hardship rules (less than 16 outfield roster players available) or be signed.

Interesting. I think a case could be made for signing him. Bob has said Micheal won’t play every game, we’ll have likely 4-5 matches without Oso and Kaye during Nations League, it seems, unlike some, Bob doesn’t see Gutierrez as a midfielder. And about Coello himself, he’s 23, with 13 or 14 years of La Liga training, three years of US college soccer, and a season each of USL 2 and MLS Next. Probably not much to be gained by him staying at TFC 2.

Against signing him might be that Bob wants to add an under 22 initiative mid in summer who would get those minutes.

[Section 223]

I imagine. Oso had two games this week, effectively, already. At least then they have cover if he's leggy.
Just watched todays presser with Bob , why do they even bother we this , he clearly doesn’t want to do them, he offers nothing, best answer he gave was when someone asked him a basketball question

[Red CB Toronto]

According to that article short term loan players can max out at 2 games appearances.

So Coello playing tomorrow means he is maxed out & would have to either come up under hardship rules (less then 16 outfield roster players available) or be signed.

Yep, Alonso will become something similar to Themi last year, but he maxed out when he signed four short term deals. He only played in one game during those after which he was signed to a MLS contract.

Interesting that he simply wants to be known as Alonso.

[los sonadores]

Bradley on Charlotte:

“Typically they’re 4-3-3. (Forward Karol) Swiderski was such a big player in the past, now they bring in (Enzo) Copetti. He’s more of a real nine (striker). He’s strong, he likes to play with people around him. He brings guys into the game, he works hard,” Bradley said. “I think they’re still trying to figure out, ‘OK, what are we doing with Swiderski? And then what does the attack look like?’ So they’ve changed a little bit along the way. (Kerwin) Vargas still gives them something when they play him on the left. He’s still an interesting player.

“They’ve tried Swiderski on the right, I don’t know if that’s something they’ll continue. Can they switch the 4-2-3-1 and play Swiderski underneath Copetti? Yes. That’s possible, especially on a day when they’re down some guys in the midfield with the suspension. (Charlotte midfielder Brandt Bronico was issued a one-match suspension for serious foul play that occurred against the New York Red Bulls). And at least one out injured. So we’ll see.“

[OgtheDim]

Game day :scarf:

Wet with potential thunderstorms between noon & four. Then wind switches to the NW & chance of rain/flurries until game time. Around 4 at kickoff.

Going to be a wet damp stadium but warmer then the last 2 games.

[CBTFC]

What a wild shift in weather and temperature over today.

I'm out at Woodbine Beach right now and it's absolutely glorious, warm sun and very spring like.

Kick-off is will be the 15th inning of winter, lol

[OgtheDim]

I have a concern that a LOT of people think that this game will be a repeat of last year's CLT visit to TFC.

Last year, their coach decided to give up midfield but not do a block - we killed them before the half. Also, for that game, most teams didn't know about Berna's signature in from the right & shoot move.


I suspect this will be a MUCH tougher match.

[Yuushalinsky]

Weather cleared up - looks like a good 'un.

[OgtheDim]

And now not so much

[OgtheDim]

And the cold slowly descends....

[OgtheDim]

Wind blowing lustily from the north

[jloome]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsqNqT6XwAAWFCN?format=jpg&name=small

[OgtheDim]

Effin Windy

[ag futbol]

Holly god, Kilbane rosted Michael Bradley on the pregame show.

[NK Toronto]

Rosted just zipped his jacket all the way up coming out of the tunnel so you know it's cold.

[NK Toronto]

Holly god, Kilbane rosted Michael Bradley on the pregame show.

What did he say? I am watching apple. No Caldwell.

[MikeForbes]

Gonna watch a few minutes of this and then die in bed due to the novel coronavirus.

[benito]

It looks cold and very windy. Don’t feel too bad about giving my tickets away.

[benito]

Woowoowowowo

[MikeForbes]

After a billion tries, he finally did it!

[MDH]

He's wanted that so bad. I'm happy for him. 🤣

[ag futbol]

What did he say? I am watching apple. No Caldwell.
Basically, they said he has no first step anymore and teams are peppering TFC with shots outside the box because MB cannot fill the gaps fast enough. Sure he can run straight lines and cover distance but that’s not the issue.

They literally ran like 3 minutes of tape of guys peeling off him and blowing by him in game this year. It was pretty damning. Also takes about him being the coaches son and the youth players we sent out who played his position.

They soft peddled the message at the end saying maybe he should rotate more rather than play every minute but it was about as direct criticism I’ve seen them ever go at any player.

Leaving this segment aside they also hyped up the Larin V’s. Real Madrid angle for tomorrow. Best pre-game show they’ve run, maybe ever.

[Soccerpro]

JMR with a bad hesitation that nearly cost TFC a goal.

[tfcfans]

Nice start for the team - let’s get an easy one tonight, good teams simply need to win these kind of games at home.

[ensco]

^Kilbane was awesome there.

He also slagged Altidore in passing. Said Ayo is the better technical player, and backed it up by saying, I played beside Jozy (at Hull I think, he didn’t say). I have trouble buying this one. But I like what Kilbane is doing.

[Soccerpro]

Basically, they said he has no first step anymore and teams are peppering TFC with shots outside the box because MB cannot fill the gaps fast enough. Sure he can run straight lines and cover distance but that’s not the issue.

They literally ran like 3 minutes of tape of guys peeling off him and blowing by him in game this year. It was pretty damning. Also takes about him being the coaches son and the youth players we sent out who played his position.


They soft peddled the message at the end saying maybe he should rotate more rather than play every minute but it was about as direct criticism I’ve seen them ever go at any player.

Leaving this segment aside they also hyped up the Larin V’s. Real Madrid angle for tomorrow. Best pre-game show they’ve run, maybe ever.

I said this all last year and somehow there were people on here saying MB wasn't the problem.

[MikeForbes]

They are a much more athletic team. We are definitely superior technically.

[ensco]

Kaye should thank his lucky stars there. Wow.

[James17930]

Wow, they should have like 3 goals already.

[MDH]

This game sloppy

[Soccerpro]

We should be down 3-1 right now.

[MikeForbes]

They are a much more athletic team. We are definitely superior technically.

Except Mark-Anthony Kaye who has the first touch and passing range of a gopher.

[ensco]

Bob needs to use this stoppage like a timeout and get these guys settled down. We are going to lose this game for sure if we don’t stop the giveaways

[Amir.]

kaye turns it over and it should be 1-1...how many times have we seen this from him this year

[MikeForbes]

So, when Insigne gets back, who has that 3rd midfield spot? Servania or Kaye?

[ag futbol]

So, when Insigne gets back, who has that 3rd midfield spot? Servania or Kaye?
I’d like to see Osorio-Servania-Bradley. I’d also like to see more of Alonso in sub minutes.

[ag futbol]

Oh Caldwell, he clearly clipped his heel, you dope

[MikeForbes]

Oh Caldwell, he clearly clipped his heel, you dope

The lady Apple TV has on the call tonight is so much better than Caldwell.

[Soccerpro]

We are having big trouble keeping any possesion.

[James17930]

They're seeing a lot of good passes, but just can't quite get a lot of them through.

I love when those thread the needle passes come off, though.

[NK Toronto]

This ref is useless

[NK Toronto]

Bad 1st touch by Akinola

[James17930]

MB with actually a good long range shot!

[Amir.]

great shot by michael bradley which is tipped over...thats one of the parts of his game that is frustrating: he doesnt shoot enough when he has the chance as he has the quality

[ag futbol]

Osorio looks like he’s running on a half tank out there. Not sure I like the choice of him starting.

[Amir.]

man these clean touches and passes out of pressure by bradley are so high quality

[James17930]

I don't think that was a foul on Rosted. He was going for the ball and even pushed into the keeper.

[jloome]

This ref is total shit.

[benito]

He missed a few calls on that sequence… pk, goalie foul and the initial foul on hedges.

[benito]

There we go! Nice header by Michael.

[MDH]

Yes!! We needed that. Gotta take 2 from this half. Hold on tight in the second, hope for a Richie or Bernie runner to finish it. The corners from both guys have been ace

[MDH]

Guys that's every football play ever. Thank fuck the ref didn't overturn there. Not sure what the var was thinking.

[jloome]

This ref is only sometimes shit.

[James17930]

Why did VAR even flag that? That was nothing.

[benito]

On that same replay, every player is fighting for position.

[NK Toronto]

MLS officiating is farcical.

[tfcfans]

Going to be important to limit the number of corners in the second half as it’s complete chaos on those at the South End.

[notthesun]

Thank you ref for showing some common sense. How the hell was that deemed clear and obvious enough for a review, but there's no review initiated for Laryea's penalty claim? What a joke.

[Canary10]

My whole game plan in the second half would be to not give up any corners.

[Amir.]

damn it...he scored...now how the hell are we gonna prove that hes the worst player on the pitch

[jloome]

Thank you ref for showing some common sense. How the hell was that deemed clear and obvious enough for a review, but there's no review initiated for Laryea's penalty claim? What a joke.
This dude has a narrative in his head tha Richie is just looking for it. which he is, but contact is still contact.

the second one was a clear shove. how var misses that is beyond me.

[ag futbol]

damn it...he scored...now how the hell are we gonna prove that hes the worst player on the pitch
Just watch half time on TSN… they’re talking about it now

[ag futbol]

Someone needs to give Capetti the Doniel Henry Mexican special

[James17930]

That was pathetic.

[tfcfans]

This is going to be a long half…..

[Canary10]

Let’s just score another.

[NK Toronto]

TFC is lucky to be winning based on XG.

[James17930]

This is going to be a long half…..

Yep. With the wind long balls are basically not an option; we're going to have to play out every play. And with their press it's going to be very difficult.

[Soccerpro]

Bad decision-making around the opposition box. Just shoot it instead of getting cute.

[Amir.]

again inaction by bob bradley in the second half and another lead dropped...20 min to go win it...laryea hasnt been good at lb

[tfcfans]

Can’t say I’m surprised - I doubt this is ending 2-2…

[MDH]

Richie needs to come off now. Just made 3 mistakes in 5 seconds. Clearly too tired to play right now. Get him off!

[NK Toronto]

This is TFC's worst game of the season, against the 15th place team.

[James17930]

This is TFC's worst game of the season, against the 15th place team.

We haven't played badly, really. I really think the wind is just messing us up this half.

[MDH]

We haven't played badly, really. I really think the wind is just messing us up this half.

I think it's both. We've been abysmal and the weather have accentuated it.

[NK Toronto]

We haven't played badly, really. I really think the wind is just messing us up this half.

Except CLT had 3 good scoring chances in the 1st half where they should have scored. We have been dominated this half, by a bad team.

[OgtheDim]

Over confidence and crap weather that makes certain ways to play the game nigh on impossible... is a bad mix.

[NK Toronto]

It seems that Southern Ontario is a global warming free zone.

[jloome]

Coelo is an excellent player.

[benito]

Tough conditions but another blown game. Hopefully this don’t come back to haunt us at the end of season,

[jloome]

Meh. If we’re not jobbed on two legit penalty calls, this ends very differently. Still, if we’re a playoff team we have to beat teams like this.

Kaye was horrendous, Coelo was exceptional.

[MDH]

That game was like pulling teeth. Boy I hope they present a better product next week. I feel terrible for every human in the stadium, they all deserve a lot more. Get your shit together TFC. That was a terrible display of unpreparedness. We're very lucky to have the points we have but things need to change in that camp. We are not playing anything like winning football. We have zero control.

[OgtheDim]

Take the point and move on. No good can come from analysing that....


But I'll look at the second half tomorrow anyways....

[FiveThreeTwo]

Hello all, long time lurker/past season seat holder up in 221 - thought i'd break post ice here

Any hurdles/barriers to us signing Coelo to a first team deal? His poise on the ball, positioning and vision are quite promising stuff for the minutes he's been given past couple games. Someone needs to be challenging kaye for minutes so can keep elevating his form

[mowe]

Really disappointing. These dropped points are adding up. Despite the conditions, can’t give up a two-goal lead in the second half at home.

[Loyal]

No depth - AGAIN this year = Bad second halves!

[Smokecell]

Apple Commentators for this game (game is "free" on Apple TV)

Nate Bukaty and Kyndra De St. Aubin


Former SKC play by play

Colour for the Loons





You might want to find the Spanish as I would put these two among the least remarkable/capable.

*********

Game also on TSN4 & RDS

I would rather have a root canal then hear Caldwell soooo......

I thought this might have been a subjective take, but my word they were objectively the worst announcing crew I have heard in my time following MLS.

[Graeme]

Caldwell is still worse.

[stevep]

That game was like pulling teeth. Boy I hope they present a better product next week. I feel terrible for every human in the stadium, they all deserve a lot more. Get your shit together TFC. That was a terrible display of unpreparedness. We're very lucky to have the points we have but things need to change in that camp. We are not playing anything like winning football. We have zero control.

zero entertainment value in the 2nd half, agreed what a terrible product tfc is, again with the tfc2 players.

[stevep]

Meh. If we’re not jobbed on two legit penalty calls, this ends very differently. Still, if we’re a playoff team we have to beat teams like this.

Kaye was horrendous, Coelo was exceptional.

Kaye is easily the worst player on tfc

[RealG-TFC]

Maybe it was the cold but I was really underwhelmed with some performances. Akinola has no first touch and his decision making is bad. Bradley a give away machine. Kaye also struggles controlling balls it seems.

[NK Toronto]

I thought this might have been a subjective take, but my word they were objectively the worst announcing crew I have heard in my time following MLS.

I watched on Apple and had no issues with them. Neither good nor bad. I prefer pretty much anyone over Caldwell.

[stevep]

That game was like pulling teeth. Boy I hope they present a better product next week. I feel terrible for every human in the stadium, they all deserve a lot more. Get your shit together TFC. That was a terrible display of unpreparedness. We're very lucky to have the points we have but things need to change in that camp. We are not playing anything like winning football. We have zero control.

you have no idea what the feeling is like to not have $400 go onto my Visa every month for season seats for this garbage.
I don't really know how to put the feeling into words. its not elation, it's more like relief, the torture of them taking my money is over. no more never again will they get my money
i dont care if tickets are $500 in July. I just won't go, who gives a fuck

[ag futbol]

I felt the game management by Bob Bradley was really lacking. Playing against the wind in the second half a push by Charlotte was always in the cards. We didn’t seem prepared for it before and we’re too late to adjust after.

I continue to like Coello. He should have a first team deal.

[NK Toronto]

Kaye is easily the worst player on tfc

Against Honduras he didn't see the pitch. Wouldn't be surprised if his time with the CMNT comes to an end soon.

[JoesphNdo]

I'll absolutely agree the conditions made that game very difficult, and give the team a bit of a pass.

But that Charlotte team at home is as close to a gimme as you'll have in this league

[MDH]

I felt the game management by Bob Bradley was really lacking. Playing against the wind in the second half a push by Charlotte was always in the cards. We didn’t seem prepared for it before and we’re too late to adjust after.

I continue to like Coello. He should have a first team deal.
This is my biggest frustration about tonight. No changes for the second half. Kerr should have started the second half, bring Victor in earlier and for me, put in MacNaughton for Kaye, an extra head at the back. It's as if they didn't expect the wind to be there in the 2nd half.

[Bushmancan]

It was a bitter cold tonight with the wind being relentless. I am not going to talk at all about any negatives on our players or our coaching (regardless if there is merit or not). I will say, the calls against us in the first half felt very one sided.

Biggest story of the night, the MLS/AppleTV desire to create a RedZone is STUPID, this is not the NFL (Curtis Ali must have had an input somewhere in this… joking). Anyone in their right mind knows you DO NOT schedule night games in the NE in March or April. It was 13 degrees at 1pm. It is an insult to the players and the fans to play tonight (with windchill, something like -12). This is how injuries happen and how you piss off loyal fans. I sincerely want my money back (there was one spot in the east stands that had coffee and the line was 10x longer than any other line).

What is MLS/MLSE/TFC thinking? Never been more pissed off at the club, we could have won 5-0 and i would still be mad. Ok Rant over.

[jloome]

This is my biggest frustration about tonight. No changes for the second half. Kerr should have started the second half, bring Victor in earlier and for me, put in MacNaughton for Kaye, an extra head at the back. It's as if they didn't expect the wind to be there in the 2nd half.

All I know right now is we need to beg, borrow or steal an international slot to sign Coelo, because he was far and away the most competent midfielder we had on the field today.

[stevep]

It was a bitter cold tonight with the wind being relentless. I am not going to talk at all about any negatives on our players or our coaching (regardless if there is merit or not). I will say, the calls against us in the first half felt very one sided.

Biggest story of the night, the MLS/AppleTV desire to create a RedZone is STUPID, this is not the NFL (Curtis Ali must have had an input somewhere in this… joking). Anyone in their right mind knows you DO NOT schedule night games in the NE in March or April. It was 13 degrees at 1pm. It is an insult to the players and the fans to play tonight (with windchill, something like -12). This is how injuries happen and how you piss off loyal fans. I sincerely want my money back (there was one spot in the east stands that had coffee and the line was 10x longer than any other line).

What is MLS/MLSE/TFC thinking? Never been more pissed off at the club, we could have won 5-0 and i would still be mad. Ok Rant over.

what you need to understand is the league and mlse do whatever they want to do and do not give a fuck about what the fans want

[Bushmancan]

^ Completely understood, but it will bite them. World Cup or not. This was just stupid and this is not like the other teams, I couldn’t give my other pair of seats away if i wanted to, let alone sell them. The people that showed up tonight deserve a credit for a hot drink. Oh wait they don’t sell it at the stadium, couldn’t give them if they tried.

[Section 223]

Holly god, Kilbane rosted Michael Bradley on the pregame show.
Just watched tape of game when does Kilbane roast Bradley?

[Section 223]

Just watched tape of game when does Kilbane roast Bradley?
Don’t bother found it

[MDH]

All I know right now is we need to beg, borrow or steal an international slot to sign Coelo, because he was far and away the most competent midfielder we had on the field today.

Yeah, agreed, he was calm and composed. But more than that, he plays the ball on the ground, which you need when playing into the wind. Same with Vasquez. He seems like exactly the depth we need tbh, with an emerging Servania. I'm gonna start advocating MB for manager, BB moves upstairs. Not certain it's great, pretty sure it's better.

[los sonadores]

All I know right now is we need to beg, borrow or steal an international slot to sign Coelo, because he was far and away the most competent midfielder we had on the field today.

I regret posting that rather long and assured Singh piece about how we have no international spots… he asked BB about it in the presser and was told “you guys gotta do you homework” and that in fact we do have one spot because Victor qualifies as local now. Bob also said they are moving toward adding Alonso to the first team roster.

[jloome]

I regret posting that rather long and assured Singh piece about how we have no international spots… he asked BB about it in the presser and was told “you guys gotta do you homework” and that in fact we do have one spot because Victor qualifies as local now. Bob also said they are moving toward adding Alonso to the first team roster.

Well that's rather good news.

[khso11]

That first Charlotte goal, Bradley lost his guy (expected, he’s not in his 20s anymore), but what was JMR doing? That was such a weak attempt to block the shot, then the first thing he did after was asking for an offside call. I never thought he’s a defender, I don’t know why we still play him at RB while he doesn’t even provide any attack anymore.

Kaye…..my god he is just disappointing, can’t connect a damn simple short pass ever. Always hesitant on counter attacks. His positioning and coverage was ok, probably better than the academy players on the bench. His best play today was a sliding tackle in the 58’ but ended up losing a fk seconds after anyway. Still waiting for the LAFC version of him here. Oso is tired and shouldn’t be playing the full 90.

Ayo, I think Kilbane said something about him being technically better than Jozy…..I didn’t know having a 5 yard first touch dispossessing the ball on every goal scoring opportunity is technically better. At least Jozy comes clutch when he’s needed. He is slowly taking that Achara route, not looking good.

Put VV on to play 5mins…..comon Bob, even Messi can’t change the game with 5mins. But can’t blame the players too much today, the weather was bad…..and the ref was absolutely the worse.

I still blame the management for being lazy and not finding that 3rd DP, I am not buying that we need to find the perfect player bs (oldest MLSE trick in the book). We are wasting half the season once again. Maybe they should refund 50% for all SSH for this mediocrity. TL “why can’t we be great”……Bill Manning “why can’t we be mediocre”?

[Canary10]

It was a bitter cold tonight with the wind being relentless. I am not going to talk at all about any negatives on our players or our coaching (regardless if there is merit or not). I will say, the calls against us in the first half felt very one sided.

Biggest story of the night, the MLS/AppleTV desire to create a RedZone is STUPID, this is not the NFL (Curtis Ali must have had an input somewhere in this… joking). Anyone in their right mind knows you DO NOT schedule night games in the NE in March or April. It was 13 degrees at 1pm. It is an insult to the players and the fans to play tonight (with windchill, something like -12). This is how injuries happen and how you piss off loyal fans. I sincerely want my money back (there was one spot in the east stands that had coffee and the line was 10x longer than any other line).

What is MLS/MLSE/TFC thinking? Never been more pissed off at the club, we could have won 5-0 and i would still be mad. Ok Rant over.

I agree with this. We’re playing in ridiculous weather conditions that make the games almost unwatchable. Should have been an afternoon game. I’m happy to have AppleTV but we need some flexibility. You can’t go to a game and enjoy yourself right now.

[James17930]

Hello all, long time lurker/past season seat holder up in 221 - thought i'd break post ice here

Any hurdles/barriers to us signing Coelo to a first team deal? His poise on the ball, positioning and vision are quite promising stuff for the minutes he's been given past couple games. Someone needs to be challenging kaye for minutes so can keep elevating his form

Welcome! Always nice to get new people posting.

As to Coello, they've just signed him to a short term loan from TFC II, but I don't know how that works in terms of league rules.

As for any other barriers, well, yes, there's Kaye. But considering what he cost I can't see them dropping him too easily.

[ensco]

I agree with this. We’re playing in ridiculous weather conditions that make the games almost unwatchable. Should have been an afternoon game. I’m happy to have AppleTV but we need some flexibility. You can’t go to a game and enjoy yourself right now.

For all that…these idiots put themselves head to head with HNIC and the NCAA semifinals by choice. I will bet you the NCAAs outdrew Charlotte FC in Charlotte yesterday.

Complaining here won't work. TFC need to hear about this from SSH on this. Loud. I dropped seats in part because of this issue (I didn’t think they should be playing in March here at all, let alone at night).

Soccer is a summer sport, somebody could explain that to these geniuses.

People in the TV business often just fall in love with how smart they are… that is how success in that business works, being the guy with the bold vision… “we are going to make MLS appointment viewing on Saturday night, it's going to take years, we have to take the pain… stick with it come hell or high water”. It's annoying. This market isn’t close to big enough to be appointment viewing.

Free the cold weather teams from the madness. You can have a 1pm appointment for them in March, April, maybe May too. Hey geniuses, here's a freebee for you, you never know, maybe somebody in Europe will watch (because right now, they don’t get a single game live all year before midnight, ever)

[Canary10]

For all that…these idiots put themselves head to head with HNIC and the NCAA semifinals by choice. I will bet you the NCAAs outdrew Charlotte FC in Charlotte yesterday.

Complaining here won't work. TFC need to hear about this from SSH on this. Loud. I dropped seats in part because of this issue (I didn’t think they should be playing in March here at all, let alone at night).

Soccer is a summer sport, somebody could explain that to these geniuses.

People in the TV business often just fall in love with how smart they are… that is how success in that business works, being the guy with the bold vision… “we are going to make MLS appointment viewing on Saturday night, it's going to take years, we have to take the pain… stick with it come hell or high water”. It's annoying. This market isn’t close to big enough to be appointment viewing.

Free the cold weather teams from the madness. You can have a 1pm appointment for them in March, April, maybe May too. Hey geniuses, here's a freebee for you, you never know, maybe somebody in Europe will watch (because right now, they don’t get a single game live all year before midnight, ever)

I complained to my ticket rep at the beginning as the timing also makes it hard on families with young kids to attend games. Wasn’t even thinking weather at the time.

The wind is going to be an ongoing issue until we fill in the ends of the stadium too. I’ve been running along Lakeshore for more than a decade. Don’t know if it’s global warming or the condo development along the lake causing wind tunnels but the wind is way stronger now than it was ten years ago.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Just watched tape of game when does Kilbane roast Bradley?

What did he say?

I was at the game and froze my bag off and left pissed off again. An absolute garbage display getting literally dominated and pinned in our end int he second half against if there ever was a gimme 3 points it was last night.

So disappointed.

[ensco]

I complained to my ticket rep at the beginning as the timing also makes it hard on families with young kids to attend games. Wasn’t even thinking weather at the time.

The wind is going to be an ongoing issue until we fill in the ends of the stadium too. I’ve been running along Lakeshore for more than a decade. Don’t know if it’s global warming or the condo development along the lake causing wind tunnels but the wind is way stronger now than it was ten years ago.

Interesting.

I do remember windy games from the early days. Fede's olimpico reminded me of Labrocca scoring on an FK from about 45 yards out, where the ball just carried and carried. There was also a game where Julius James scored in a monsoon… those games were probably in May. But they are isolated memories.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Now onto the game....sorry, not much to be positive about other than the Berna Olympico goal...I thought he'd try it given the wind and it worked.

As for the rest...an horrible game. I heard excuses about the "wind"...well it was just as bad in the first half and Charlotte playing against it missed 3 sitters. Meanwhile second half, we were pinned in our end and our midfield completely overan (yet again) and Bob stands on the sideline literally doing nothing. His son and Kaye (who he brought here mind you) completely overan in the second half as we collapse. Not to mention some of the giveaways by both including one of Kaye's in the first half...under no pressure puts in right on the Charlotte players foot and seconds later almost a goal...

Now onto the players...

Back 2 CBs and Berna, the only players that did anything. Without them, I'd shudder to think how bad we'd look. God Bless Berna for how hard he works but he is getting fed up no doubt. Playing with an absolute pylon in Akinola up front and having zero service....if he goes down to injury, we literally have no attack whatsover. Only negative of Berna was the yellow...I get he's pissed but we need him badly....he can't yell at the ref as these cards are accumulating and he'll be suspended and he knows it as well, he right now is our entire attack. He sits out, we might not even get a touch in the attacking end, that' how bad we are offensively without him.

Lareya, nightmare. Ffs, I get you aren't a left back..but that was bruatal. And quit b.ittching to the refs after every damn infraction (real or imagined) and focus.

Kaye, nothign more to say, is not good enough. Him and MB are the worst 2 man CB combo in the MLS. We gave up a lot for him and he's been completely underwhelming.

Mike-another game, another horror shows (what else is new?) and gets beat for the first goal and left for dead. Cannot run and must be a sub, and that's that.

Akinola-sorry, there cannot be a worse striker in all of MLS. He is not fit, can't run, has zero touch, no hold up play....is literally like we are playing a man down. Remind me why we don't have a striker again? This can't go on like this.

Johnson, very good again. Where would we be without him?

Others-sorry, no more point going on, it was a massively disappointing 2 points down the drain. I'll say it to the cows come home, Bob and Manning must be fired. Not at the end of the season, not next month. Not tomorrow. Right now. And lets get on the business of returning to quality and winning football this great city expects.

Cheers.

[Bushmancan]

Complaining here won't work. TFC need to hear about this from SSH on this. Loud. I dropped seats in part because of this issue (I didn’t think they should be playing in March here at all, let alone at night).

Soccer is a summer sport, somebody could explain that to these geniuses.

Free the cold weather teams from the madness. You can have a 1pm appointment for them in March, April, maybe May too. Hey geniuses, here's a freebee for you, you never know, maybe somebody in Europe will watch (because right now, they don’t get a single game live all year before midnight, ever)

Calmed down a bit….Condensed your points to respond - the head to head match up was so obvious though and duly noted

Pointing it out - I have brought it to ticket rep but might need to do what Stevep did, as I said World Cup hype will short term save MLS, maybe people like Molinaro, Buffery or anyone who is not a shill needs to write about it, would be nice to at least voice it.

Summer sport - not 100% in agreement with you on this, been in London in January at a game and nearly froze to the bones with the dampness, but it was a enclosed stadium and the wind didnt get through.. none or very little of the MLS stadiums are designed to prevent the winter/spring winds and the typical 10 degree drop after sunset. I could go on about, quality of play, fan enjoyment, stadium atmosphere, risk of muscle pulls but if they can get more people streaming and sitting at home (some Business genius must have the stats) then let the teams play to half empty stadiums.

Start time and European followers, never even thought about that one but very astute observation, also i used to like to go out for dinner after the game.

I just think these are self induced mistakes … if i wanted to stream the game and 9 others live, I wouldn’t be a SSH. just my thoughts.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Found the Kilbane video, posted in the MB thread.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Last rant...shame on the MLS for putting our games in March/April at 7;30 at night. This is not playable weather, is not watchable. Families can't watch in this weather, is too f/ing cold...and not worth it.

Am assuming it was a sell out but tonnes of empty seats....lots came late, were in halftime tunnels well into the second half....left early as well... I have seasons, 4 of them and am getting fed up with this crap product and late night starts in cold weather. Took my son and his two buddies and they are all rep players who love football and they even lost interest. If we are losing that's one thing...but 9;30 at night, freezing cold, its not watchable.

PS in my city, there is a facebook group of dads....saw lots of "free ticket" giveaways...again for the game. Have to assume 99% is weather related. Shame on mls.

[ag futbol]

For all that…these idiots put themselves head to head with HNIC and the NCAA semifinals by choice. I will bet you the NCAAs outdrew Charlotte FC in Charlotte yesterday.

Complaining here won't work. TFC need to hear about this from SSH on this. Loud. I dropped seats in part because of this issue (I didn’t think they should be playing in March here at all, let alone at night).

Soccer is a summer sport, somebody could explain that to these geniuses.

People in the TV business often just fall in love with how smart they are… that is how success in that business works, being the guy with the bold vision… “we are going to make MLS appointment viewing on Saturday night, it's going to take years, we have to take the pain… stick with it come hell or high water”. It's annoying. This market isn’t close to big enough to be appointment viewing.

Free the cold weather teams from the madness. You can have a 1pm appointment for them in March, April, maybe May too. Hey geniuses, here's a freebee for you, you never know, maybe somebody in Europe will watch (because right now, they don’t get a single game live all year before midnight, ever)
I like the idea of consistent time slots. My antidotal observation is that running around to avoid the completion from a viewership perspective is a false economy. Best to stay consistent with something (whatever that may be) and feed your diehards, let everything blossom from there.

Really I would have rather taken the money we spent on Insgine and spent it on relocating the Argos + contributing to a retrofit of the stadium to turn it into what it should be for WC 2026 and thereafter: a 35k-40k enclosed stadium that actually protects fans from inclement weather.

I agree that given the current setup they are really killing the fan experience with evening kickoffs at the end of winter.

[wopchop]

^ Completely understood, but it will bite them. World Cup or not. This was just stupid and this is not like the other teams, I couldn’t give my other pair of seats away if i wanted to, let alone sell them. The people that showed up tonight deserve a credit for a hot drink. Oh wait they don’t sell it at the stadium, couldn’t give them if they tried.
It was a mission to find the hot drinks in the east stand - after a bit of a wild goose chase on the 2nd level the only concession that had it was at the far north end.
The hot chocolate tastes like water.

[Section 223]

Found the Kilbane video, posted in the MB thread.
Thanks for posting The Kilbane video Hala, I just realized who should be running this team that fellow Irishman sure knows his football. Agreed with everything you said in your game summary above , but Bernadeschi yellow only happened because our captain kept silent on the play he’s the one who should be in the refs face not Bernie, but we are stuck with this father and son mess so the horror show continues.

[ag futbol]

Thanks for posting The Kilbane video Hala, I just realized who should be running this team that fellow Irishman sure knows his football. Agreed with everything you said in your game summary above , but Bernadeschi yellow only happened because our captain kept silent on the play he’s the one who should be in the refs face not Bernie, but we are stuck with this father and son mess so the horror show continues.
This is just my $0.02 but MB looks a lot less vocal / captain like than he did in years past. Time to pass the torch I think.

[NK Toronto]

De Guzman added in his comments on TSN that this father and son dynamic potentially could cause problems in the dressing room and should not be occurring at this level.

[MDH]

I complained to my ticket rep at the beginning as the timing also makes it hard on families with young kids to attend games. Wasn’t even thinking weather at the time.


This is still a huge issue for me. Apple saw some clips of ultra groups and thought that's what footy fandom is. I hope those boys have a good time, but that's just the parroting of European football culture for me. Having nothing but evening games destroys the ability to create real grass roots lifelong fandom. If every week is an evening game the audience will become even more drinking age male, with more alcohol in them already. Who wants this? I know in the 10 years I stood behind the net before moving out west it was always easier to give the capos two fingers during day games. At night they're so drunk you have to ignore them for fear of being screamed at by your fellow supporters, by someone not watching the football🙄. The future of North American football is with the kids. We cannot create our own culture while we hold onto these idle ideas about European football culture. Racist, sexist drunk, angry European football culture. At PFC they work really hard at making the game fun for kids, they know the supporters groups are gonna do their thing, and they let them, but the game day is focused on the family atmosphere. It's a better feeling that TFC matches, even with only 5k people. Because at every match our community comes together, not just the drunk males looking to peacock themselves like the ultras they've seen on tv or heard in stories. Sorry rant over, I hate the forced culture so much, it break my heart. Apple should have one or two prime time matches a week, but most matches on weekends should be played under the sun, not the lights.

[OgtheDim]

It was freaking cold & miserable in the south end last night - the only good point was it wasn't raining.

I couldn't do it after 45 minutes...just way too cold.

Any other 4 hour window of today or yesterday and we win that game. The wind lessened our technical ability & upped their physical presence. Happens

****

TSN going after MB is an interesting choice. It might be a case of trying to differentiate themselves from the Apple broadcast which although not complete puffery (all the pundits regularly indicate they think TFC is going to fail this year), is very "you will love this".

***

And yes those 2 commentators are not good but Caldwell is not good in another way I just can't stand.

[jloome]

For all that…these idiots put themselves head to head with HNIC and the NCAA semifinals by choice. I will bet you the NCAAs outdrew Charlotte FC in Charlotte yesterday.


To me, this whole thing is clearly just to make Apple happy.

If all but three of the games are simultaneous, most package subscribers will only watch their own team, as most of the others are simulcast, and their hope is that, as it is evening, people will turn over to Apple programs because they're already on the App.

That's all this is about, channeling as much viewership towards Apple as possible, because Apple subscriber numbers are required to protect the value of their deal.

There was no consideration of weather, or timing, or Canada. Apple said "this is what we want," and they caved like the passel of corporate stooges that they are.

They are trying to copy the BBC model, basically, with the "wrap up" show being their version of "Match of the Day."

The argument is that football is not a sport where local teams draw large foreign support UNLESS they're a huge, premier-level club already. Most MLS clubs have 80-100% attendance, and they've seen from past national broadcasts on ESPN and Fox that the only people who watch the average MLS team are local fans.

So there's no percentage in "stacking games", which means they don't HAVE to start earlier. They don't care if kids go, because kids don't spend money until they're old enough to stay up to 10 pm anyway. They just take full-rate seats away from other adults in markets where, again, they already have 80-100% saturation.

From a business perspective, I understand Apple's reasoning.

From a pragmatic standpoint, given the weather six months a year here, it's absurd.

They could easily, also, have had one early game yesterday, same as the first four weeks. But someone watching a 2 pm start isn't going to necessarily stay on the couch afterwards and watch Ted Lasso.

[jloome]

Also, Fede basically refuses to track back and play defense.

At this point, we should probably be playing him as an out-and-out striker, as the final third is where he's effective and dangerous. He shows disinterest in being anywhere else, a luxury we can't really afford. His passing in the middle and final third are woeful, repeatedly the worst completion rate on the team. He's passing at under 75% last time I checked, which is pretty bad even for a winger.

They had multiple right-side breaks yesterday in which other players had to cheat over to cover his side.

Move him to striker or false nine.

I thought Bradley was problematic today. He was good a few times going forward and the header was nice. He had trouble tracking runners again due to speed. But the real problem was his inability to hold possession, turn on the ball and find space. He was just too slow to evade anyone. I counted three out-and-out strips where they just took the ball off him, and at least three times when, because he couldn't find space, he passed the ball into a crowd and gave it up.

He was a turnover machine. Kaye couldn't pass, Michael couldn't move, Servania was inaccurate across the board. Oso was leggy and probably shouldn't have been playing.

Frankly thought all three of our central mids were pretty awful yesterday. Servania was at least quick enough to defend but his control and passing were poor. Kaye was horrendous. His passing was terrible.

Coelo, again, looked exceptional. Several tough vertical passes, evading tackles that would've locked up Michael or MAK, keeping the ball moving. Really, as long as they can get his papers settled, he should be starting. Remove one of either MB or MAK and slot him in, and we will instantly be a better team for it.

The biggest issue to me is that we seemed to revert tactically to that purely vertical, quick touch into space style that he tried in the first game. It doesn't work. We're not Real Fucking Madrid. Attempt to cover 70 yards of the pitch with short passes only, all vertically, with no horizontal movement or switch of play until the final third, is lunacy.

I think we were set up to fail. At the very least, up 2-0 at the half, put on another central defender. It's a battle against the wind, and we have Michael in the box defending, because Hedges is wide, because JMR is too high defending the player Fede hasn't bothered to chase.

What a shitshow.

[Hala Hrvatska]

De Guzman added in his comments on TSN that this father and son dynamic potentially could cause problems in the dressing room and should not be occurring at this level.

100% agreed. And not potentially, but it is. The fact de guzman said the quiet part out loud is shocking but much appreciated.

Finally tsn and/or anyone said what needed to be said. No more walking around on eggshells....or the elephant in the room....

This is like house league soccer with the father coaching the son...unheard of...and definitely the captain's arm band has to go to someone else.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Also, Fede basically refuses to track back and play defense.

At this point, we should probably be playing him as an out-and-out striker, as the final third is where he's effective and dangerous. He shows disinterest in being anywhere else, a luxury we can't really afford. His passing in the middle and final third are woeful, repeatedly the worst completion rate on the team. He's passing at under 75% last time I checked, which is pretty bad even for a winger.

They had multiple right-side breaks yesterday in which other players had to cheat over to cover his side.

Move him to striker or false nine.

I thought Bradley was problematic today. He was good a few times going forward and the header was nice. He had trouble tracking runners again due to speed. But the real problem was his inability to hold possession, turn on the ball and find space. He was just too slow to evade anyone. I counted three out-and-out strips where they just took the ball off him, and at least three times when, because he couldn't find space, he passed the ball into a crowd and gave it up.

He was a turnover machine. Kaye couldn't pass, Michael couldn't move, Servania was inaccurate across the board. Oso was leggy and probably shouldn't have been playing.

Frankly thought all three of our central mids were pretty awful yesterday. Servania was at least quick enough to defend but his control and passing were poor. Kaye was horrendous. His passing was terrible.

Coelo, again, looked exceptional. Several tough vertical passes, evading tackles that would've locked up Michael or MAK, keeping the ball moving. Really, as long as they can get his papers settled, he should be starting. Remove one of either MB or MAK and slot him in, and we will instantly be a better team for it.

The biggest issue to me is that we seemed to revert tactically to that purely vertical, quick touch into space style that he tried in the first game. It doesn't work. We're not Real Fucking Madrid. Attempt to cover 70 yards of the pitch with short passes only, all vertically, with no horizontal movement or switch of play until the final third, is lunacy.

I think we were set up to fail. At the very least, up 2-0 at the half, put on another central defender. It's a battle against the wind, and we have Michael in the box defending, because Hedges is wide, because JMR is too high defending the player Fede hasn't bothered to chase.

What a shitshow.


Well said jloome. Nothing more to add to that.

[jloome]

Well said jloome. Nothing more to add to that.

My only non-negative to add is thank God we have a central defense now, or we would probably be bottom of the league.

That, and Ralph Priso was awful yesterday coming on in the second half for Colorado. Much talent, bad decisions. He's like a young Weston McKennie. He'll be fooling coaches with his potential for teams and teams to come.

I sort of feel like we have the pieces now to be competitive and we've just hit a point where Bob's tactical and personnel decisions are suspect.

I think he got it right against Atlanta and Miami, but the rest of the season so far is just the wrong look, playing at a speed we can't maintain through the middle.

WE have no consistency. We're like a microcosm of MAK and MB: inconsistent and slow in the middle.

Can only hope at this point that he changes tack, or that we hit a good stretch where combined training performances, good weather and smart tactical choices lead to some consistent quality. I felt last week like maybe we were turning a corner, but one week of poor weather was all it took to make them fall apart.

EDIT: Also, ONE win in six games. And that's with a defense that has limited our opponents to basically a goal a game, with two shutouts. If we hit ONE win in 10 games, does Manning maybe get off his thumbs and start looking at whether Bob's approach is working?

My one nightmare outcome is we get rid of Bradley and hire Jessie Marsch.

[TheGoodson]

Has anybody heard an updated timeline for Insigne.. or is the 4 weeks more like indefinite until he decides he wants to go?

[Hala Hrvatska]

My only non-negative to add is thank God we have a central defense now, or we would probably be bottom of the league.

That, and Ralph Priso was awful yesterday coming on in the second half for Colorado. Much talent, bad decisions. He's like a young Weston McKennie. He'll be fooling coaches with his potential for teams and teams to come.

I sort of feel like we have the pieces now to be competitive and we've just hit a point where Bob's tactical and personnel decisions are suspect.

I think he got it right against Atlanta and Miami, but the rest of the season so far is just the wrong look, playing at a speed we can't maintain through the middle.

WE have no consistency. We're like a microcosm of MAK and MB: inconsistent and slow in the middle.

Can only hope at this point that he changes tack, or that we hit a good stretch where combined training performances, good weather and smart tactical choices lead to some consistent quality. I felt last week like maybe we were turning a corner, but one week of poor weather was all it took to make them fall apart.

EDIT: Also, ONE win in six games. And that's with a defense that has limited our opponents to basically a goal a game, with two shutouts. If we hit ONE win in 10 games, does Manning maybe get off his thumbs and start looking at whether Bob's approach is working?

My one nightmare outcome is we get rid of Bradley and hire Jessie Marsch.

One win since August...the Manning/Bradley disaster had to end. The sooner the better. We can turn it around with literally anyone else at the helm.


And even if this continues, manning won't make a change..he brought BB here...he won't admit what a collasal mistake its been. Manning has to go now. Someone has to be accountable for this and he cannot escape it anymore.

[Hala Hrvatska]

My only non-negative to add is thank God we have a central defense now, or we would probably be bottom of the league.

That, and Ralph Priso was awful yesterday coming on in the second half for Colorado. Much talent, bad decisions. He's like a young Weston McKennie. He'll be fooling coaches with his potential for teams and teams to come.

I sort of feel like we have the pieces now to be competitive and we've just hit a point where Bob's tactical and personnel decisions are suspect.

I think he got it right against Atlanta and Miami, but the rest of the season so far is just the wrong look, playing at a speed we can't maintain through the middle.

WE have no consistency. We're like a microcosm of MAK and MB: inconsistent and slow in the middle.

Can only hope at this point that he changes tack, or that we hit a good stretch where combined training performances, good weather and smart tactical choices lead to some consistent quality. I felt last week like maybe we were turning a corner, but one week of poor weather was all it took to make them fall apart.

EDIT: Also, ONE win in six games. And that's with a defense that has limited our opponents to basically a goal a game, with two shutouts. If we hit ONE win in 10 games, does Manning maybe get off his thumbs and start looking at whether Bob's approach is working?

My one nightmare outcome is we get rid of Bradley and hire Jessie Marsch.


Agreed on the centre backs...liking them and Johnson...

And yeah, and NO more Americans...Marcsh would be a disaster here like BB....enough of the Americans getting fired elsewhere....not good enough.

Time for South American or Europeans...time for a clean break.

I still remember when Perez came in and had the cojones to bench Mike...no chance for that under BB...and its the same old crap as our midfield gets overun...including BB's handpicked Kaye who is simply not good enouggh to be a starter here.

[portu]

It looked so promising for the 45 minutes I was in the stadium. Bob’s gotta be on the hotseat. I give it 3 more games and then sacked if they aren’t all wins.

AND why the fuck are there games this late? We were up 2 nil after 45 and I was part of a mass exodus of fans that couldn’t stand the cold. Put on top that I waited in 30 person line to get into the stadium for like 20 mins. MLS operations is shit.

[jloome]

After their performances this week, a good manager would sit a bunch of these guys, I think.

What I'd like to see next week, but won't.

------------------Johnson---------------
Laryea---Hedges---Rostad---Petretta/Franklin (if Insigne is out)
-----------Servania---Coelo-----------
-------------------Osorio----------------
----Bernadeschi------------Insigne/Petretta (if Insigne is out)-----
-------------------Kerr------------------

I dunno, maybe sub in Peruzza in the 2nd half if Kerr is ineffective. He's big, he's tall, he scored buckets of goals before we signed him to a first team deal to not play him. We need a target man style striker, although I think Kerr has real potential as he's pretty big and strong, as well as being fast.

[SenorDingDong]

Has anybody heard an updated timeline for Insigne.. or is the 4 weeks more like indefinite until he decides he wants to go?

At this point I suspect we won't know until game day that he is back. There really is no point announcing sooner. But I expect it to be either next match in Nashville or next home match after that against Atlanta.


I watched the match, not really mad as much disappointed.
My anger is starting to get mad at the league though. I get this is the first season of Apple TV and League Cup, but there seriously needs to be some lessons learned here. We should not be playing night time games in Feb / March in the NE. If they want only night games then we start our first 4-5 games on the road.

The fact is that due to the League Cup we have two problems:
1.) The absurd decision to not recognize international window.
2.) Condensing the league and starting in February when its freezing for all the northern teams.

Problems with Apple TV:
1.) The decision to only night have time games.

The league and owners need to do like a lessons learned after this season.

If last nights game is played in normal conditions, we win. End of story.

But all is not lost. We are on a 5 game unbeaten streak. We are middle of the table in the East somehow, and we have played all 6 matches so far without Insigne or any starting striker really. I honestly feel like if we can get to June staying middle of the table before we get 1-2 reinforcements we should be in OK shape.

Last night I really can't fault too many players.
1.) Ayo looked awful and its embarrassing how out of shape he is.
2.) Laryea looked bad defensively.
3.) Oso looked tired as well but wasn't too bad.

Coehlo was a huge bright spot. I feel like he could take MB's position. He's so calm and looks like an excellent passer of the ball.

When Insigne is back I honestly feel we just need to drop that ST position for now. Its a weak spot. Outside of Kerr no one should be playing it. Kerr should sub in for Oso in the 2nd half.

Insigne - Osorio - Berna should be the top 3.

If Bob drops Servania when Insigne is back then he will really get in my bad books.

[DinamoTFC]

That game was like pulling teeth. Boy I hope they present a better product next week. I feel terrible for every human in the stadium, they all deserve a lot more. Get your shit together TFC. That was a terrible display of unpreparedness. We're very lucky to have the points we have but things need to change in that camp. We are not playing anything like winning football. We have zero control.

This is my sentiment. I'm tired of freezing my ass off for such poor amateur quality. I was embarrassed that my dad as a euro snob had to see that. Bob making same mistakes in second half leading to similar second half collapses every match ffs.

[barticusz]

Completely agree Dinamo, that was one of the worst games I've watched in a long time. Sure the weather had a factor in it, but still, I would have been pissed if I had paid money for that product.

[SoccMan2]

A few things in terms of playing home games starting in early March, yes this is Canada and I’m sorry but let’s be honest the weather sucks here even in the summer most of the time . Moreover, 98 percent of the time no matter what month BMO fiend is a wind tunnel. With this in mind and with the type of weather we get here you would think something would be done to enclose this stadium properly , and yes I’ve heard every bloody excuse on why this can’t happen. Like I’ve mentioned before we have the World Cup coming and still we won’t be getting the type of stadium this city needs to go with the type of weather we have . Look yes it would still be cold in there even with an enclosed stadium but it would not be anywhere close to how windy it was in there last night . If they really want to grow the attendance to even greater numbers this is something that needs to be addressed , because the schedule is not going to be reduced these March dates are here to stay , so if MLSE is serious about growing this team a proper stadium is needed , this open concept stadium is not going to do , not in this lousy weather city .

[Hala Hrvatska]

Completely agree Dinamo, that was one of the worst games I've watched in a long time. Sure the weather had a factor in it, but still, I would have been pissed if I had paid money for that product.

Imagine my anger having 4 tickets for that...

Freezing cold...and horrible football....

I hope MLSE actually watched and will do something about it. The casual fan is losing interest quick in the product and game time starts and cold....and the Insigne/Berna effect is wearing off now...its Bradly ball and even the most ardent fans are getting fed up....that was horrific last night watching us getting pinned in our own half by arguably the worst team in the league. And I think they were missing some guys as well.

[ensco]

When I add all this up... I wonder if Bob isn't just going to quit.

Appoint a manager now, see out the rest of the season upstairs, exit stage left in November.

I know nothing, but I think he doesn't have the answer, and I think he is a very self-aware guy.

I have wondered before if an appointment to manager is how MB will leave the field and move into management, but today, I actually don't see that, because they would both take a lot of heat if they tried that now.

[DinamoTFC]

I complained to my ticket rep at the beginning as the timing also makes it hard on families with young kids to attend games. Wasn’t even thinking weather at the time.

The wind is going to be an ongoing issue until we fill in the ends of the stadium too. I’ve been running along Lakeshore for more than a decade. Don’t know if it’s global warming or the condo development along the lake causing wind tunnels but the wind is way stronger now than it was ten years ago.

I emailed by rep now too after seeing a bunch of you have to express similar sentiments.

Winds might just be fact that we are playing games a lot earlier in the year now and at poor times.

[NK Toronto]

The season is starting earlier and finishing later in order to accommodate the League's Cup. I have yet to hear from any fan who is interested in this tournament. Why are they shoving this down our throats? Who wants this?

Are these games part of the season ticket package?

[Hala Hrvatska]

When I add all this up... I wonder if Bob isn't just going to quit.

Appoint a manager now, see out the rest of the season upstairs, exit stage left in November.

I know nothing, but I think he doesn't have the answer, and I think he is a very self-aware guy.

I have wondered before if an appointment to manager is how MB will leave the field and move into management, but today, I actually don't see that, because they would both take a lot of heat if they tried that now.

Good points. What I think is/was the plan is having MB take over....hope I am wrong, but this is crazy...enough with the Bradleys...a clean break from them is needed. Nothing we can do about MB until the end of this year, but BB and Manning have to go now. Salvage the season, and too bad if MB doesn't like his dad getting fired...this club HAS to be bigger than him and his dad.

Sorry for being blunt...but BB is the worst coach in MLS right now. Nothing he had shown me in this stint tells me he is capable of changing...from horrible tactics, not knowing how to close out games...lack of player development, horrible subs...etc...its not working...and all this with the highest or near top of the league payroll.

All is not lost if we can manning and bb righrt now, we DO have talent. Sign DP midfielder and a striker, and the pieces are there to win it all (once Insigne is back).

Last night, second half, freezing my a.ss off...my son and his buddies not even wanting to be there....my entire row of seats in my section not there (left or didn't even show up), watching us pinned in our end by a horrible team in Charlotte, was the final straw..had enough. Change is needed now. We can turn this around. But if BB stays, no chance.

[jloome]

When I add all this up... I wonder if Bob isn't just going to quit.

Appoint a manager now, see out the rest of the season upstairs, exit stage left in November.

I know nothing, but I think he doesn't have the answer, and I think he is a very self-aware guy.

I have wondered before if an appointment to manager is how MB will leave the field and move into management, but today, I actually don't see that, because they would both take a lot of heat if they tried that now.

We're in Nashville next Saturday. Tough game. If we end out losing on a Jacob Shaffelburg goal, assisted by Daniel Lovitz, I might have to cry.

I don't know if he'll quit. I would rather not; I'd rather a manager go down fighting than admit he's too stubborn to adapt or do things differently.

I'm still undecided on him. He's a three-time coach of the year, but I think the dynamic with Michael is bad, and the defensive issues in midfield are serious. Maybe he's bitten off more than his style will fit.

If MAK has a good game, and Michael has his usual decent offensive-but-middling-defensive effort, we tie or win a game. But if they both have a bad game, we usually are going to lose.

And MAK is too inconsistent to pair next to a guy with no quickness.

But he doesn't seem to recognize that. Or maybe he does and, like dropping the constant press, he's going to adapt and plug Coelo in more often.

I just figure he's running out of good grace. We're at a point where people around and above Manning will be paying attention, and if we lose the next two games, I think they might pull the trigger on him.

But maybe I'm underestimating Manning's indifference/stubbornness/loyalty. He can't honestly think one win in eight months is just the roster. Or maybe he can. Maybe getting along to get along in suit world requires more self-delusion and less avarice than I'd previously assumed, and he's an "always stick with your tribe" dude. So Ali Curtis somehow fails upwards, and he sticks with the narrative that Bob's legendary status in MLS is going to turn it all around.

I'm surprised Manning hasn't bailed laterally already, to be honest. That would be the normal move at this point for his ilk. Maybe the stuff we heard about Toronto's reputation for being a great team to work for because there are no consequences has filtered around pro sports a little, and maybe he's not having as easy a time this go around.

[ag futbol]

When I add all this up... I wonder if Bob isn't just going to quit.

Appoint a manager now, see out the rest of the season upstairs, exit stage left in November.

I know nothing, but I think he doesn't have the answer, and I think he is a very self-aware guy.

I have wondered before if an appointment to manager is how MB will leave the field and move into management, but today, I actually don't see that, because they would both take a lot of heat if they tried that now.
I think MB will potentially be a fine Manager one day but any upward promotion at TFC (regardless of Bob’s status) is a non-starter for me. Too much nepotism.

[Bushmancan]

A few things in terms of playing home games starting in early March, yes this is Canada and I’m sorry but let’s be honest the weather sucks here even in the summer most of the time . Moreover, 98 percent of the time no matter what month BMO fiend is a wind tunnel. With this in mind and with the type of weather we get here you would think something would be done to enclose this stadium properly , and yes I’ve heard every bloody excuse on why this can’t happen. Like I’ve mentioned before we have the World Cup coming and still we won’t be getting the type of stadium this city needs to go with the type of weather we have . Look yes it would still be cold in there even with an enclosed stadium but it would not be anywhere close to how windy it was in there last night . If they really want to grow the attendance to even greater numbers this is something that needs to be addressed , because the schedule is not going to be reduced these March dates are here to stay , so if MLSE is serious about growing this team a proper stadium is needed , this open concept stadium is not going to do , not in this lousy weather city .

We have to play some home games, in March and April …. I am not debating that. What i am saying if you know for a fact (statistics dont lie), that it is usually at least 8 to 10 degrees colder between daytime highs and lows why risk your players and fans. Look outside right now, considerably better than last night. It does not take a rocket scientist. MLS appears to understand you dont play soccer in Dallas in July at 1pm, why cant they figure out you dont play soccer in NE/NYC/Minn or Toronto at 7:30pm in March. D’OH! :yikes:

[OgtheDim]

Also, Fede basically refuses to track back and play defense.

....

Disagree...saw him, do it about 4 times yesterday - he covers for Richie and also, like most passionate attackers, tracks back if he loses the ball.

[JoesphNdo]

When I add all this up... I wonder if Bob isn't just going to quit.

Appoint a manager now, see out the rest of the season upstairs, exit stage left in November.

I know nothing, but I think he doesn't have the answer, and I think he is a very self-aware guy.

I have wondered before if an appointment to manager is how MB will leave the field and move into management, but today, I actually don't see that, because they would both take a lot of heat if they tried that now.

I'm not a betting man but I'd put my life savings on Michael Bradley managing this team within the next three to four years and be very confident about it. I hate it, I disagree with it as strongly as someone can, but it's happening. We'll see if I'm off.

[reggie]

I'm not a betting man but I'd put my life savings on Michael Bradley managing this team within the next three to four years and be very confident about it. I hate it, I disagree with it as strongly as someone can, but it's happening. We'll see if I'm off.

i agree.because he is in manning s roledex,we all know bill doesnt like to do any leg work jus lazy hires ,im hoping MB becomes prez,jus for the reason that manning would be gone

[NK Toronto]

We're in Nashville next Saturday. Tough game. If we end out losing on a Jacob Shaffelburg goal, assisted by Daniel Lovitz, I might have to cry.

I don't know if he'll quit. I would rather not; I'd rather a manager go down fighting than admit he's too stubborn to adapt or do things differently.

I'm still undecided on him. He's a three-time coach of the year, but I think the dynamic with Michael is bad, and the defensive issues in midfield are serious. Maybe he's bitten off more than his style will fit.

If MAK has a good game, and Michael has his usual decent offensive-but-middling-defensive effort, we tie or win a game. But if they both have a bad game, we usually are going to lose.

And MAK is too inconsistent to pair next to a guy with no quickness.

But he doesn't seem to recognize that. Or maybe he does and, like dropping the constant press, he's going to adapt and plug Coelo in more often.

I just figure he's running out of good grace. We're at a point where people around and above Manning will be paying attention, and if we lose the next two games, I think they might pull the trigger on him.

But maybe I'm underestimating Manning's indifference/stubbornness/loyalty. He can't honestly think one win in eight months is just the roster. Or maybe he can. Maybe getting along to get along in suit world requires more self-delusion and less avarice than I'd previously assumed, and he's an "always stick with your tribe" dude. So Ali Curtis somehow fails upwards, and he sticks with the narrative that Bob's legendary status in MLS is going to turn it all around.

I'm surprised Manning hasn't bailed laterally already, to be honest. That would be the normal move at this point for his ilk. Maybe the stuff we heard about Toronto's reputation for being a great team to work for because there are no consequences has filtered around pro sports a little, and maybe he's not having as easy a time this go around.

I think this will be Manning's last season with the club, but mainly due to the Insigne contract. It seems that the hype and buzz about the team upon his arrival is pretty much gone. If they start playing in a stadium that is one third empty and season ticket renewals drop off significantly I believe Manning will be gone at the end of the year.

[ensco]

I'm not a betting man but I'd put my life savings on Michael Bradley managing this team within the next three to four years and be very confident about it. I hate it, I disagree with it as strongly as someone can, but it's happening. We'll see if I'm off.

If I were betting money, my money would be on a square that has MB upstairs. Or had that as the goal, anyways,...

I think he is too smart and too ambitious to want to be a mere manager. Managers last a year or two, the guys upstairs always get 5-10 years in a job. John Thorrington or Chris Klein, that's who I would model my career on, if I were MB.

So, previously, I would have bet on him going straight to GM. But that required the afterglow that comes from a good, winning situation.

I think the ship on the whole scheme, whatever it was, may have passed, now that Kilbane fired a torpedo into the whole arrangement.

We need a name for that segment - The Kilbane Kill Shot?

[Oldtimer]

I think this will be Manning's last season with the club, but mainly due to the Insigne contract. It seems that the hype and buzz about the team upon his arrival is pretty much gone. If they start playing in a stadium that is one third empty and season ticket renewals drop off significantly I believe Manning will be gone at the end of the year.

Manning won't be gone because of the success that the Argos have had under him. What would be ideal would be MLSE having separate presidents for the Argos and for TFC, as we can easily see that with his time being divided he doesn't have enough time to give to the club.

Michael Bradley as GM with his dad as president? It's possible.

[Initial B]

I'm expecting we aren't going to see anything regarding Front Office/Coaching movement if TFC remains around the playoff line come the June transfer window. It really doesn't matter how the season goes so long as you are above the playoff line and the team is in form at the end of the season. MLS Cup matters much more than the Supporter's Shield. I'm betting Manning is hoping this season will run much the same way 2016 TFC did.

Now, if they are sinking after the transfer window, I imagine they will make a coaching change in August in order to salvage a playoff spot hoping for a dead manager bounce.

And I agree with Oldtimer - I think Manning will eventually be moved to the Argos as their full-time president. But I'm a little wary of any father/son nepotism in the GM/coaching roles.

[ensco]

Manning won't be gone because of the success that the Argos have had under him.

This is a possibly legitimate argument but I have never bought it. The whole argo thing is just a stadium utilization thing. Tanenbaum doesn’t care about them. The franchise value of TFC is 50x the Argos.

The person in the chain with the highest capacity for understanding what has happened here is Bob Bradley himself.

[jloome]

Disagree...saw him, do it about 4 times yesterday - he covers for Richie and also, like most passionate attackers, tracks back if he loses the ball.

Fine, but if he did it four times, there were at least that many in the second half alone when he didn't bother.

[Bushmancan]

A few things in terms of playing home games starting in early March, yes this is Canada and I’m sorry but let’s be honest the weather sucks here even in the summer most of the time . Moreover, 98 percent of the time no matter what month BMO fiend is a wind tunnel. With this in mind and with the type of weather we get here you would think something would be done to enclose this stadium properly , and yes I’ve heard every bloody excuse on why this can’t happen. Like I’ve mentioned before we have the World Cup coming and still we won’t be getting the type of stadium this city needs to go with the type of weather we have . Look yes it would still be cold in there even with an enclosed stadium but it would not be anywhere close to how windy it was in there last night . If they really want to grow the attendance to even greater numbers this is something that needs to be addressed , because the schedule is not going to be reduced these March dates are here to stay , so if MLSE is serious about growing this team a proper stadium is needed , this open concept stadium is not going to do , not in this lousy weather city .

And crickets from Manning on why we are doing this! TSN, Molinaro or Buffett need to ask this point blank

[OgtheDim]

I suspect MLSE is very aware of what revenue per game is like & how much less it is when the weather is cold. What they may not be aware of is how difficult BMO makes it to find warming food - all their food offerings are summer food. And they do not make warm drinks available easily - numerous reports of only 1 place having hot chocolate.

If they sold a goulash....imagine the $ they would have roped in last night.

If they sold a hot cider mulled wine - imagine.

Even pasta.


EMBRACE the winter...don't fight it.

The 7:38pm thing is here to stay, but creative people could figure out a way to get it to work & for early season games to become a winter festival atmosphere.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, and why no winter jackets available at the stadium - just the throws. Could made a killing.



Sorry but I find this "oh gosh its difficult because its cold thing" just annoying.

Yes, I hated it and left.

But there are ways to make it a better atmosphere.

EMBRACE the winter like the CanMNT did....we all loved that. Pile the snow on the sides. Sell the "winter classic"....for pete's sake if we can do it for hockey, it can be done for soccer.

[DinamoTFC]

Disagree...saw him, do it about 4 times yesterday - he covers for Richie and also, like most passionate attackers, tracks back if he loses the ball.

What I've noticed is that Fede does defend quite a bit but once we blow leads on terrible goals he tends to lose motivation and gives up defending. Noticed it a few games now and really can't blame him. He's too good for the players he has to work with.

[NK Toronto]

Manning won't be gone because of the success that the Argos have had under him. What would be ideal would be MLSE having separate presidents for the Argos and for TFC, as we can easily see that with his time being divided he doesn't have enough time to give to the club.

Michael Bradley as GM with his dad as president? It's possible.

Sorry Oldtimer have to disagree on this one. The Argos are a dieing team in a dieing league in a dieing sport. They are a financial sinkhole. TFC may be losing money on a cash flow basis but the value of MLS francises has sky rocketed, whereas the Argos are essentially worthless as an investment. Neither Larry T nor Roger's wanted anything to do with them. They are only worth something to Bell as long as TSN has CFL broadcast rights.

Time and the changing demographics of this country will eventually see the demise of the CFL, at least in Eastern Canada.

[los sonadores]

Some footage from Doyle showing Charlotte’s formation in offence and with Bernie not tracking the fullback shifting into the centre of midfield (scroll down to #6)

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/atlanta-end-red-bulls-curse-rapids-formation-switch-pays-off-more-from-matchday-

[los sonadores]

Only one lousy win but we’re above the playoff line. Such is the league this season. Really too bad the last draw because otherwise we’d up into 6th.

I’m thinking things still fall into place. How much into place can’t be predicted but things will have to go seriously awry not to make the playoffs. And we should be able to find a way to improve in the summer window.

[ensco]

Oh, and why no winter jackets available at the stadium - just the throws. Could made a killing.

Sorry but I find this "oh gosh its difficult because its cold thing" just annoying.

Yes, I hated it and left.

But there are ways to make it a better atmosphere.

EMBRACE the winter like the CanMNT did....we all loved that. Pile the snow on the sides. Sell the "winter classic"....for pete's sake if we can do it for hockey, it can be done for soccer.

Heat lamps under the roof on the west side would be a real start. And yes, of course, fix the amenities. Have someone set up a stand or two selling those chemical hand warmers. Do something!

I think, if the CMNT “success” in winter games gave the MLS or MLSE suits some kind of licence to do this, that Sam Adekugbe doing the snowbank leap meant this could be a happy Canuck thing… then that is a misread of what happened with the CMNT.

The CMNT success in WC qualifying was and is a rare, special thing. Fans know the dates are not optional. Fans understood the competitive advantage won by playing these games in the cold. Fans know they aren’t asked to do this that often. Fans get to see Phonzie, Jonathan David, plus plus plus… the number of people that saw them in Qatar, those were Super Bowl viewing numbers. Phonzie and David are now far better known than Fede or Insigne…

Qualifying is a big deal. When it wasn’t WC qualifying, you saw attendance drop like a stone last week.

TFC playing three early regular season games, in misery for all, by choice, is a totally hopeless proposition for the ticket buying public, and a hose job on SSH.

btw game time isn’t the biggest issue. It's playing in March at all that is the biggest issue. I have never been colder than I was at the Portland opener in 2011. The pipes all froze at BMO. It was an afternoon game.

[OgtheDim]

Nah, there's a way to do this & try to make it work as against just suffering through and hoping spring happens.

[BelfastBoy]

Ironically, Argo fans I have talked to feel that Manning has done 'nothing' for the team - despite the championship win. They are more worried about attendance and marketing though than the team performance and believe somehow that firing Manning will alleviate these problems. TFC has the opposite problem in that the stadium would be full if the team lived up to expectations on the pitch.

[Ultra & Proud]

I suspect MLSE is very aware of what revenue per game is like & how much less it is when the weather is cold. What they may not be aware of is how difficult BMO makes it to find warming food - all their food offerings are summer food. And they do not make warm drinks available easily - numerous reports of only 1 place having hot chocolate.

If they sold a goulash....imagine the $ they would have roped in last night.

If they sold a hot cider mulled wine - imagine.

Even pasta.


EMBRACE the winter...don't fight it.

The 7:38pm thing is here to stay, but creative people could figure out a way to get it to work & for early season games to become a winter festival atmosphere.

This is all around the smartest thing I've read on here in a while. Somebody should forward to the TFC/MLSE HQ people. All the suggestions are good.

I wondered why no pasta since they signed Insigne. Even a cup of soup would work from March to May. They should really develop a Fall/Spring menu and a separate summer menu and actually market it like they used to with food reviews from media and pics on the website.

But that hot cidar suggestion is gold.

[Canary10]

Why can't Apple follow the Premier League example? Have three Saturday time slots - 4:00, 7:30 and 10:00. Can accommodate different time zones and early and summer season climate challenges. Also allow fans to watch more than one game on TV. Also allows the UK and Europe to watch a game in the summer when their leagues are in the close season and people are dying for any soccer to watch.

[Ultra & Proud]

Why can't Apple follow the Premier League example? Have three Saturday time slots - 4:00, 7:30 and 10:00.

Because they don't go to sports events. Climate is always perfect when watching from your office or computer room so what do they care? They barely make crowd noise audible as is so attendance/atmosphere is irrelevant.

[Canary10]

Because they don't go to sports events. Climate is always perfect when watching from your office or computer room so what do they care? They barely make crowd noise audible as is so attendance/atmosphere is irrelevant.

Seems to work for the most successful league on the planet.

Part of the problem with the current approach is virtually every game is at the same time. Need some extra slots so people actually into the league can watch some other games. PL does that really well. Would also have the side benefit of playing day games in places where weather sucks in March. And vice versa where weather sucks in summer. I think Ensco's point somewhere that they are throwing away a whole potential summer European audience is a good one too.

[Ultra & Proud]

Seems to work for the most successful league on the planet.

Part of the problem with the current approach is virtually every game is at the same time. Need some extra slots so people actually into the league can watch some other games. PL does that really well.
I think they figure you can watch any match live or from the start so they beat the system.

[Canary10]

I think they figure you can watch any match live or from the start so they beat the system.

Lol.

[JoesphNdo]

If I were betting money, my money would be on a square that has MB upstairs. Or had that as the goal, anyways,...

I think he is too smart and too ambitious to want to be a mere manager. Managers last a year or two, the guys upstairs always get 5-10 years in a job. John Thorrington or Chris Klein, that's who I would model my career on, if I were MB.

So, previously, I would have bet on him going straight to GM. But that required the afterglow that comes from a good, winning situation.

I think the ship on the whole scheme, whatever it was, may have passed, now that Kilbane fired a torpedo into the whole arrangement.

We need a name for that segment - The Kilbane Kill Shot?

I buy everything you're saying here, but a few things push me still to manager

1 I think MB has a substantial ego (One that has always outstripped his capabilities), fair if you don't as I don't know the man personally so it's mostly a baseless read naturally, but I think he'll a) believe he can absolutely succeed as a manager and b) be attracted to the front and centre glory therein
2 I think this has been the play all along. Bob coming in taking in both roles makes the transition further upstairs very easy, Michael slots in. This may change, for sure, but I definitely believe Bob was appointed with this plan in motion
3 Michael has been the marketing face of the club for a long time now and they like the idea of him being prominent (Or liked? Who knows what Saturday meant, but it is something)
4 Manning has no idea how to build an MLS team, like none. All he knows is somehow we got it right in 2017, and the more you can shove 'hey fans, remember 2017!?' in peoples faces the more you can get them to forget what a failure the team has been every since. We've seen this time and again, with contract extensions on that team going on way beyond reason, trying to re-sign Seba and lots of decisions. Just going with our captain then as a manager to placate fans is ridiculously on brand for him. Ridiculously so. He literally does not know anything else

We'll see, though. You may be right.

Re;Apple TV. I absolutely love the games clumped together, but do fully expect them to shift that time to way earlier next season. For the two reasons that have come up here, the fan experience is really bad in the cold winter cities of which there are many, and to get some European views. Why sign Messi, if they pull off the impossible, and play games at a time no European can watch? It would make no sense

[Canary10]

None of my points are meant to say I disagree with the mulled wine suggestion. 100% need to do that.

[Oldtimer]

Sorry Oldtimer have to disagree on this one. The Argos are a dieing team in a dieing league in a dieing sport. They are a financial sinkhole. TFC may be losing money on a cash flow basis but the value of MLS francises has sky rocketed, whereas the Argos are essentially worthless as an investment. Neither Larry T nor Roger's wanted anything to do with them. They are only worth something to Bell as long as TSN has CFL broadcast rights.

Time and the changing demographics of this country will eventually see the demise of the CFL, at least in Eastern Canada.
I don't disagree at all with you about the CFL dying, at least in Ontario and Quebec. I was just giving MLSE's perspective.

[Oldtimer]

This is a possibly legitimate argument but I have never bought it. The whole argo thing is just a stadium utilization thing. Tanenbaum doesn’t care about them. The franchise value of TFC is 50x the Argos.


I gather you didn't watch the Gray Cup? (I don't watch a lot of gridiron but I usually take in that game). One of the most exciting games in years with a dramatic last minute win by the Argos. Larry T was excited to get the trophy. It's not just the bottom line with him like it is for Bell and Rogers. It was Larry who got MLSE to buy the Argos in the first place. So yeah, Manning probably gets a pass on the TFC side, at least for one more season. Larry is the one who will make the call 100%.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Another year, another Argos and CFL is dying... This is the slowest death ever.

I don't need to punch down on the Argos or the CFL anymore. I don't think there's much debate to be had.

If the Argos got their own even tinier stadium I'd love that for them. Then the rest of the league and Bell can prop up the Centre of the Universe oldest team in NA all they like.

But a piece of me would think it funny if the name was given back to a Toronto rugby team and the CFL team was gifted to Hamilton. Once again splitting the Steel city in half between Tigers and Wildcats.

[R.O.]

Look, I know that this is a TFC Forum and it is fashionable to Hate all things Argos, but as a fan of both (was an Argo fan first as they were around before TFC) and a fan of ALL the major Toronto sports teams. I think this hate (not rivalry) is kinda stupid.

Both serve different markets and demos, plus it is good for Torontonians to have options. I realize that BMO's field gets "beat up" during the summer months, but with the money and tech that MLSE has, that shouldn't be a problem.

The reason that MLSE (re: Bell) keeps and finances The Argos is simple. They bring in TV Ratings. The CFL TV deal is a money maker for TSN and gives them summer programming to put on against the Blue Jays.

Divisional finals TV ratings 2022: (https://3downnation.com/2022/11/19/2022-cfl-divisional-final-tv-ratings-hold-steady-compared-to-last-year/)

Montreal at Toronto — 629,000
B.C. at Winnipeg — 1,200,000

Average: 914,500
Division finals TV ratings 2021:
Hamilton at Toronto — 846,000
Saskatchewan at Winnipeg — 1,346,000

Average: 1,096,000


2022 Week 13 TV ratings: (https://3downnation.com/2022/09/09/despite-largest-single-game-tv-audience-during-2022-cfl-season-labour-day-weekend-ratings-drop-16-percent-year-over-year/)

Friday
Ottawa at Montreal — 310,400
Sunday
Winnipeg at Saskatchewan — 796,000
Monday
Toronto at Hamilton — 332,300

Edmonton at Calgary — 433,300
Total Week 13 average: 468,000
(These numbers do not include viewership from RDS, TSN’s French-language affiliate, which has averaged approximately 200,000 viewers for Alouettes games in 2022.)
2021 Labour Day Weekend ratings:
Friday
Montreal at Ottawa: 255,800
Sunday
Winnipeg at Saskatchewan: 979,700
Monday
Toronto at Hamilton: 435,900
Edmonton at Calgary: 580,500

Total average: 562,975



Semi-Final Sunday TV ratings 2022: (https://3downnation.com/2022/11/09/2022-cfl-semi-final-sunday-tv-ratings-down-27-percent-compared-to-last-year/)

Hamilton at Montreal — 516,200
Calgary at B.C. — 753,500

Average: 634,850
2021
Montreal at Hamilton — 684,000
Calgary at Saskatchewan — 1,061,000
Average: 872,500



You can clearly see that The Argos bring in the best Eastern Ratings, and without them, they lose a good deal. Plus, they spend like 6-10 million a year on the team, which is one DP contract on TFC.

Owning both teams does not seem to hamstring both Franchises at all.


Also re: Franchise value, TFC benefits from being in a league with the majority of teams are American. American Dollars and Audience are a big thing for value, if the CFL had American Teams their value would be bigger as well.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Amazing. To now be Billy big boots with MLS DP $. It wasn't that long ago that the salaries were a lot closer. And we shouldn't be invoking USA teams in the CFL again. We know that doesn't help the league maintain its cultural status for handouts. How bout dem Montreal Stallions?

[benito]

I sent a note to my ticket rep today about the evening kickoffs in March and April. He said he’s already received a few emails from SSHs and let will share with the league. The schedule is a league decision but the club is aware of the fans viewpoint.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I sent a note to my ticket rep today about the evening kickoffs in March and April. He said he’s already received a few emails from SSHs and let will share with the league. The schedule is a league decision but the club is aware of the fans viewpoint.

Hope it helps....thanks.

Its absolutely ridiculous to have these late March/April starts.

Nothing better than going to the stadium on a warm Sat/Sun afternoon for a game...get there early, have some food/drinks, etc...get home at a reasonable hour also.

[Bushmancan]

Hope it helps....thanks.

Its absolutely ridiculous to have these late March/April starts.

Nothing better than going to the stadium on a warm Sat/Sun afternoon for a game...get there early, have some food/drinks, etc...get home at a reasonable hour also.

OK, rant almost done. Response from my ticket rep... he is a good guy and clearly there is a common company line.

"I do apologize for the scheduling of matches this year. It is something that we understand to be an issue with many fans. We will continue to address these concerns with the league in the hopes of enhancing the game day experience for all of our members. These 7:30pm matches were mainly scheduled due to the Apple TV deal that was newly formed this season. Ultimately, MLSE has very little control over the scheduling of matches. The league has the final say on the date and time of matches."


I responded that I appreciated his work but send this one up, they have a share ownership of MLS Soccer so they are part of the decision, we don't play in Dallas in the summer because it is 108°F so why are we playing at night in the NE in the spring.

Additionally, it would have been so easy to give out hand warmers, or a TFC blanket, or... ??? (thanks Ensco) Anything to share that the club knew that this was not ideal, and they were interested in fans relations. The one i just don't get is the complete lack of preparation at the concessions.

btw... MLS Soccer gave me MLS_faninquiry@mlssoccer.com to send my dissatisfaction there. on the task.... LOL