2023 MLS in-season transfers (non-TFC)

[Oldtimer]

Post any news here.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Did this matter just get a little (or a lot) more interesting?... With this comment by MLS Commissioner Garber?...

https://twitter.com/MLSist/status/1631776448628260864

https://theathletic.com/4273478/2023/03/03/lionel-messi-mls-don-garber-comments/

[Mr. Inbetween]

More... Messi- MLS sitch... twitter war... fun... btwn journos F. Romano and J. Arango vs. media personality- insider Mike Ryan (Ruiz) but is it all nonsense? Hmmm...

https://twitter.com/LeBatardShow/status/1631778459604090882

[Mr. Inbetween]

The Inbetween... I enjoy that space between possibility and probability... seems so does Tom Bogert...

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1631440180765765633

[ensco]

Solely because of the nosestretching tales MLS officials and sources were peddling re Ronaldo…

I am going to take all these stories with a boulder sized grain of salt.

I know Messi has an apartment in Miami, but … either he will be trying to play elite football, or he will be trying to maximizing his income. He would not be close to doing either in MLS.

If he wants to do something sentimental, that is not Miami either.

[JoesphNdo]

I'm more bought into this than others. MLS have a huge, huge incentive to move heaven and earth to aquire Messi this season. A huge incentive. And while he could earn more in Saudi, there's advantages to being in MLS that may make mean he'd take the offer if it was even close. Think of the deal Beckham got and how much that would be worth now

I don't think it's MLS or Saudi but I suspect more a decision of MLS of win more champions leagues and extend his records in Europe is the decision

[613reppingTFC]

So I'll start off that I don't know a ton when it comes to signing players. But I've seen people say that when teams sign a player they will give them access to cars or pay for their homes or something along those lines. So what would the chances be..that since apple has the rights to MLS now and that's pretty well the only way to watch. And with lots of eyes on Messi and knowing people would watch him wherever he goes. Does anyone know if there would be a possibility that apple could somehow help to sweeten the deal? It would benefit them by extra people signing up for their services and they have loads of cash.
I know it would probably be some sort of breach and could result in a team taking some punishment too? But just was thinking about it..also could be really stupid idea...

[ensco]

I'm more bought into this than others. MLS have a huge, huge incentive to move heaven and earth to aquire Messi this season. A huge incentive. And while he could earn more in Saudi, there's advantages to being in MLS that may make mean he'd take the offer if it was even close. Think of the deal Beckham got and how much that would be worth now

I don't think it's MLS or Saudi but I suspect more a decision of MLS of win more champions leagues and extend his records in Europe is the decision

But what does "close" mean when Saudi is offering $250M a year?

To your last point - I think he should go back to Barcelona and that is how I would bet it.

[Canary10]

But what does "close" mean when Saudi is offering $250M a year?

To your last point - I think he should go back to Barcelona and that is how I would bet it.

It’s SKC-Ronaldo close. Like more than than Insigne is making!!!😲

[JoesphNdo]

But what does "close" mean when Saudi is offering $250M a year?

To your last point - I think he should go back to Barcelona and that is how I would bet it.

If you start to give up ownership %s you're already, possibly, not far off the Saudi money. And I think there's a lot of advantages for him playing in MLS and living in the US, too.

The romantic in me wants him to goto Argentina, and I wouldn't put MLS as favourites. Just think we'd all be shocked by what MLS would come up with to get him here, it's much, much more than it was pre apple tv. The concept of a steaming package MLS can sell instantly, directly to just about anyone on the planet with no local tv rights negotiations changed the game there

[OgtheDim]

Yeh, I think the concept of "Messi is in Miami & here's the stream you can watch him on" is quite the possible package worldwide.

[jloome]

I think the economics of Messi are more complicated now than people may be considering.

Franchise valuations are extremely high, and it's more likely they'd give him points on income than try to jerry-rig a new franchise with investors who accept that he's worth that as a co-owner. They have to look at where the league can go, how much more it can grow relative to its current franchise model, how much global acceptance there might be of MLS as a top league, when it's basically an anti-American punchline to fans in most countries.

A lot of coming to MLS is a gamble: for him that the revenue points will work, for any franchise partners that a 35-year-old legend -- notwithstanding being the best every -- will be solely responsible for driving hundreds of millions in profit or growth.

Conversely, Saudi will offer him $350M cash a year. End of story.

He only comes to MLS if it's for romantic reasons, or Beckham straight up gives him some of his business. In Miami, pro sports have always struggled to compete with a multitude of other ways to spend your money, and the fact that much of the free-spending population isn't really from there but just seasonal visitors. Is he going to be enough to justify giving away $500M worth of combined capital and revenue over four or five years?

Beckham was... but the league was young, franchises were still folding, contract and moving, and they cost $10M. It's a different ballpark now.

[JoesphNdo]

I think the economics of Messi are more complicated now than people may be considering.

Franchise valuations are extremely high, and it's more likely they'd give him points on income than try to jerry-rig a new franchise with investors who accept that he's worth that as a co-owner. They have to look at where the league can go, how much more it can grow relative to its current franchise model, how much global acceptance there might be of MLS as a top league, when it's basically an anti-American punchline to fans in most countries.

A lot of coming to MLS is a gamble: for him that the revenue points will work, for any franchise partners that a 35-year-old legend -- notwithstanding being the best every -- will be solely responsible for driving hundreds of millions in profit or growth.

Conversely, Saudi will offer him $350M cash a year. End of story.

He only comes to MLS if it's for romantic reasons, or Beckham straight up gives him some of his business. In Miami, pro sports have always struggled to compete with a multitude of other ways to spend your money, and the fact that much of the free-spending population isn't really from there but just seasonal visitors. Is he going to be enough to justify giving away $500M worth of combined capital and revenue over four or five years?

Beckham was... but the league was young, franchises were still folding, contract and moving, and they cost $10M. It's a different ballpark now.

So I don't disagree that cost goes up alot, but I think there's also a huge incentive here. This will be long and rambly, and basically stream of consciousness so don't expect perfect analysis, but tl;dr I think the Apple deal is an all in bet with an upside that is 'MLS is on course to be the number 2 league in the world' and a downside of 'MLS will contract from where it is today' (With reality likely landing somewhere in the middle, but those are the stakes here)

So first, the optimistic side. Beckham brought alot of upside to the league, but it was limited in scope because MLS was limited in reach. Beckham wasn't a huge, consistent, TV ratings draw because he wasn't that kind of player - his appeal was in his celebrity, with alot of people who would never watch soccer. He brought huge exposure to the league, and sold tickets, and moved merch, but there was a cap. Beckham had a huge following in Asia, for example. Beyond jersey sales, MLS didn't have a way to tap into that market directly with huge TV deals and even in the US what he brought to TV was limited

It's a different ballgame now with Messi. You're a Messi fan in Korea? Want to see your boy? Easy, drop $100 a year and it's all you can eat. Former Messi fanatic in Barcelona who would take a bullet for the man? Jump in etc. That changes things. Beyond that, let's look at the absolute wildly optimistic, best case way the Apple TV deal goes - and this is deliberately optimistic, not saying I believe it

The EPL is the most popular league in the world, and explosion in global popularity that started in the mid 90s/early 2000s. Why? Because it was the best league in the world? Actually, back then it was so far from that you'd have been laughed at for saying it was, the European results show that, they were also rans in Europe. Because it was competitive? United used to have leagues wrapped by March while the rest of Europe was trading different league winners. It's because of two things primarily - it was slickly marketed and packaged, so when you looked at it it felt big time and the primary media covering it was English speaking. This gave it a huge advantage globally. We're at a point now where, basically, the other leagues in Europe are dying as competitive leagues and the premier league is the defacto superleague. Soon, it'll be the only league elite players play in, because it's financial advantage is just too big

MLS, the little engine that could, is a primary English speaking league that now is pretty damn slickly produced. They now have an ability to sell, in an instant, to anyone, anywhere in the world, directly. They also have the advantage of alot of playing time when there's no big Euro football on, and a quirky format that, love it or hate it, is something different. If MLS can produce a wave of momentum, which a few absolute mega signings could produce, they can start to get interest outside of these shores - especially if, in Europe, there isn't really a compelling league beyond the English one for top level competition or something different. This won't happen overnight, and it's not like they sign Messi and everyone in Spain is following the league, but there's an opening there to become a league people follow and a league that can generate real revenue. It's a huge gamble, but there's actually alot of potential here and if the leagues brass think (whether you agree or not) that Messi signing can start moving Apple TV packages globally even in a small way they will probably sacrifice far more than you'd imagine to do it

And then there's the pessimistic side. This is an all in gamble because failure is also pretty catastrophic. Sports leagues live and die on media rights, not ticket sales. And MLS has been, frankly, utterly shit on TV. It failed. Nobody watched, outside of big games. They were able to get some money for TV revenue because that small audience was young, and seen as something that could grow, but while tiny growth did come they were still an absolute nothing event on TV. Now imagine they goto Apple for 10 years and it doesn't work, Apple don't renew, it's not worth it to them. What then? Where do you think MLS goes? "Hey sports media, remember us, the product that couldn't draw flies ten years ago on TV? Well we tried streaming and there was no audience for us there, either! So how about we start the bidding at 1 billion?". MLS *needs* this to succeed if it wants to grow, or even if it wants to not contract, as a business. And you can see that right now, they're in that start up 'just acquire users, screw revenue' phase. Every season ticket gets a free package, everyone on t-mobile gets a free package, 40% of the games are free - just come and watch, please!

So long winded way of saying, I think MLS would give up *alot* to make this work. The upside potential of the deal is huge, and the downside potential if they fail on streaming is catastrophic, in fact I just read the Athletic claim (they admit this hasn't been corroborated) that Apple has an 'opt out' clause and can just walk away at any point if the subscription numbers aren't what they want. Think about those stakes, and the $$ difference between an MLS that gets this right and an MLS that gets this wrong. That $$ difference is huge, and somewhere in that $$ difference is what they would spend on some flyers to make this work. Plus Messi seems to love Miami, so there is that.

So do I think it'll happen? No, probably not, still. That's alot of words to say no, I know. But I wouldn't rule it out. And I'd fully believe MLS are currently talking internally about doing things that'd absolutely shock all of us if they think there's a chance

[jloome]

So do I think it'll happen? No, probably not, still. That's alot of words to say no, I know. But I wouldn't rule it out. And I'd fully believe MLS are currently talking internally about doing things that'd absolutely shock all of us if they think there's a chance

Compelling argument, dude.

I wonder if they can pull it off, though, while insisting on the North American playoff model rather than traditional promotion/relegation, traditional transfers etc.

The reason I say that is that there are a number of indicators that these things are sort of sacrosanct to hardcore football fans elsewhere. Even here, when polled on whether they'd like it -- not whether it will happen -- most fans say they'd like to see it. They just don't think franchise owners would allow it.

But those owners need to win over all those foreign fans to be a "no. 2 superleague" after the EPL. A poll last week on ESPN found 60% of MLS players want promo/relegation, and the fastest growing fanbase of any football team in the US right now isn't in MLS... it's for Wrexham, because of Ryan Reynolds' fan pull and the documentary. When asked why fans support them and not their local MLS team, the answers are mostly the same: because they're an underdog trying to get promoted.

In other words, the community structure and possiblity of greatness that is inherent to ANY league football team in other countries doesn't exist in the U.S. It will ALWAYs be a secondary league there, because it isn't traditionally American and because, without embracing that underdog/annual survival structure, most of the games mean nothing.

You can throw celebrity and cameras and money at any league all you want; but ultimately, people have to take the team's stakes personally. They will NEVER get to that level of league if they think it'll be based on uber-fans of one player. It will just never happen.

The entire football culture in the U.S. basically has to change and at least generally homogenize with football culture elsewhere first. And that's at odds with how U.S. capitalists work.

[ensco]

I tip my hat to Joseph Ndo and jloome. They have sorta kinda caused me to change my view of this. Joseph might be right, the business case might be there. jloome points out the real issue, which is the authenticity, or lack thereof, that most see (but we are mostly blind to, being inside the bubble)

[ag futbol]

In other words, the community structure and possiblity of greatness that is inherent to ANY league football team in other countries doesn't exist in the U.S. It will ALWAYs be a secondary league there, because it isn't traditionally American and because, without embracing that underdog/annual survival structure, most of the games mean nothing.

You can throw celebrity and cameras and money at any league all you want; but ultimately, people have to take the team's stakes personally. They will NEVER get to that level of league if they think it'll be based on uber-fans of one player. It will just never happen.

I like this topic. I have changed my sports watching habits of late and noticed a trend: high stakes and compelling narratives are the winners. Losers are the ones where there’s a high quantity of games and low incentives to compete every night. Also places where the story lines are dry and tired.

Cut down massively on NHL and NBA. Watch a lot more NFL (say what you will about the sport, every game matters, and the production value / ability to craft stories makes it some of the most watchable TV out there and the physicality of it prevents the owners from watering down the product).

MLS needs a format where every weekend matters for one reason or another. The new setup is a step in the wrong direction. I still watch because I’m a fan of the game and the global nature of football is really unmatched by any other sport. But let’s be honest here, the MLS regular season is largely a stupid exercise now, and only serves to remove teams that are abject failures.

[jloome]

MLS needs a format where every weekend matters for one reason or another. The new setup is a step in the wrong direction. I still watch because I’m a fan of the game and the global nature of football is really unmatched by any other sport. But let’s be honest here, the MLS regular season is largely a stupid exercise now, and only serves to remove teams that are abject failures.

Maybe they could turn it into a platform to try to suit both playoff fans and traditionalists: have two titles, a League Title and a Cup title.

Keep the format, but add a second best-of-three round. Traditionalists can afford the league title more weight, as it's based on the season. Playoff fans can favor winning the cup.

This very debate exists in England every year, although there it's because Cup upsets let smaller clubs dream big. But there are many, many English fans who favor the FA Cup more. Most don't rate the League cup much anymore.

Anyway, it would at the least bow to internatioanl convention somewhat, as we'd have a league title and two cups to contend.

In the long run, so many Americans are now investing in European football that they may see merit in pro/relegation, because they WANT a financial advantage. The guys who own LAFC probably WANTS to crush the guys who own Orlando.

Financial equity was needed to keep the league alive for years, but my reading of the average billionaire isn't that he really wants a level playing field. If they know they'll outspend other owners anyway, it will be easier for MLS franchises to countenance a few smaller cities coming in and setting the stage for pro/rel, in the same futile manner it largely happens in England, where smaller clubs rarely stick for long.

It gives the impression of having a chance to become the biggest club in the world... but it's not really going to happen. More realistically, it gives smaller cities a shot at glory like Leicester managed: one offs that reaffirm the purpose of the system and let fans dream big.

Of course, the sheer number of large American cities and the relative might of the collected ownership complicates all of that. I think we already have way too many teams, and MLS would be better off if it split into two divisions, a Premier and a Championship. But no one pays $325M to be in division two.

So the only way to do it would be new franchises in places like Sacramento, Detroit and San Diego, and a system that makes it very, very hard for even ONE team to go down, likely include a playoff against the potential promotee. That would require a formalized relationship with USL again, more investment in USL with help from MLS, more basic value at the second tier.

It's hard to see it happening, but it's possible. Probably take another decade at least, though, and a loooot of money.

[Initial B]

Of course, the sheer number of large American cities and the relative might of the collected ownership complicates all of that. I think we already have way too many teams, and MLS would be better off if it split into two divisions, a Premier and a Championship. But no one pays $325M to be in division two.
Well, if they do split into two divisions of 18 teams, then they'll need to make sure that Division 2 teams would get a relatively equal portion of the TV revenues, perhaps 70-80% of the Div 1 revenues. They would also have to make it so it is relatively easy to get promoted - say, the bottom and top team of Div 1 and Div 2 get relegated/promoted automatically, but then the next 8 teams in each Division would be seeded and have a single round of 3-game playoffs (Div 1: 10v17, 11v16, 12v15, 13v14; Div 2: 2v9, 3v8, 4v7, 5v6) with the Div2 playoff winners getting promoted and the Div1 losers getting relegated. My worry there is what happens if a higher-seeded club (say Philly) ever get relegated on their home field, whether the stadium would survive.
Additionally, if they do this sooner than later, they can lower the expansion fees to something more reasonable to allow more cities to get in on the ground floor.

[Mr. Inbetween]

As a follow-up to the insightful framing of the Messi situation by both Joseph Ndo and jloome. If the notion that a contingency clause between MLS and Apple exists and is accurate; that an “opt-out” is triggered to allow Apple to walk away from the agreement if the league doesn’t drive a certain number of subscribers to Season Pass in a set time. Then a linchpin of a 'Messi' signing or what conspiracist me thinks was an ergo necessary 'trial run' at Ronaldo is more than self explanatory and of MLS existential self-interest. Therefore, from the business perspective everything financially creative must be done- good debt- short of unmanageable initiatives- bad debt- to drive subscribers to/past the 'target' in order to lock-in Apple asap.

According to The Athletic...

“MLS’ deal with Apple is still in its infancy and specific terms of the pact have been hard to come by. Sources familiar with the arrangement, though, have suggested over the past few months that the league’s agreement with Apple contains an “opt-out” clause that allows Apple to walk away from the agreement if the league doesn’t drive a certain number of subscribers to Season Pass in a set timeframe. Garber did not confirm or deny such a clause.”

https://theathletic.com/4273822/2023/03/04/mls-expansion-apple-tv-messi-don-garber-interview/
(https://theathletic.com/4273822/2023/03/04/mls-expansion-apple-tv-messi-don-garber-interview/)
Edit: Addendum...

https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1633127828181905408

[Bushmancan]

Anyone want to consider a flyer for the Sept game in Miami, and bet on getting Messi…. LOL. Could always sell the tickets if he isn’t coming.

[jloome]

Well, if they do split into two divisions of 18 teams, then they'll need to make sure that Division 2 teams would get a relatively equal portion of the TV revenues, perhaps 70-80% of the Div 1 revenues. They would also have to make it so it is relatively easy to get promoted - say, the bottom and top team of Div 1 and Div 2 get relegated/promoted automatically, but then the next 8 teams in each Division would be seeded and have a single round of 3-game playoffs (Div 1: 10v17, 11v16, 12v15, 13v14; Div 2: 2v9, 3v8, 4v7, 5v6) with the Div2 playoff winners getting promoted and the Div1 losers getting relegated. My worry there is what happens if a higher-seeded club (say Philly) ever get relegated on their home field, whether the stadium would survive.
Additionally, if they do this sooner than later, they can lower the expansion fees to something more reasonable to allow more cities to get in on the ground floor.

Maybe the way to keep everyone happy is to ensure that the best clubs from each division play in MLS Cup.

Let's say they can get us up to 36 teams. The first 18 in the following season make up the MLS Premier Division. The Next 18 make up the MLS First Division. That would require adding six teams. Then USL-C becomes MLS Third Division.

The MLS Premier Division league title is determined by the season points. The Cup is a tournament based off the top division teams, plus, say, the top four from the next two divisions.

You only promote/relegate one team from each division, and they have to win a playoff series against the lowest team above them to be promoted.

It would be extremely difficult, under those circumstances, for an MLS club to fall out of the top 2 divisions. The advantage to being in the Premier Division is that the league has its own title, and everyone with a decent team still gets to play for MLS cup in a "playoff" bracket.

This would take into account that MLS 1.0 owners have been reluctant to spend more and grow, as those who underfund their team, despite the cap, will probably fall into Division One pretty quickly.

It would also help with the imbalanced schedule massively, as teams would be limited to regular season games against their own division.

[jloome]

Anyone want to consider a flyer for the Sept game in Miami, and bet on getting Messi…. LOL. Could always sell the tickets if he isn’t coming.
Buy them quickly; Miami is selling out games on the pure rumour he might be coming. Their attendance is up 5,000+ per game this season, the biggest increase in the league.

[Bushmancan]

Buy them quickly; Miami is selling out games on the pure rumour he might be coming. Their attendance is up 5,000+ per game this season, the biggest increase in the league.

Telling sign, no single game tickets for any game beyond July. Got 2 in Section 123 on StubHub for $50 for 2. Let’s see. Hahaha.

Small investment.

[rydermike]

Auro ends up signing in Kazakhstan
https://tntsports.com.br/melhorfuteboldomundo/Ex-Santos-e-Sao-Paulo-lateral-Auro-e-o-novo-reforco-do-Ordabasy-do-Cazaquistao-20230303-0025.html

[SenorDingDong]

Auro ends up signing in Kazakhstan
https://tntsports.com.br/melhorfuteboldomundo/Ex-Santos-e-Sao-Paulo-lateral-Auro-e-o-novo-reforco-do-Ordabasy-do-Cazaquistao-20230303-0025.html

Wowowwweewaaaa!!

That said, thats a big fall from MLS / Brazilian league.

[ag futbol]

Auro ends up signing in Kazakhstan
https://tntsports.com.br/melhorfuteboldomundo/Ex-Santos-e-Sao-Paulo-lateral-Auro-e-o-novo-reforco-do-Ordabasy-do-Cazaquistao-20230303-0025.html
This is nuts. There are far worse players in the league right now (and plenty of other league of a higher quality than where he went).

Needs to fire his agent me thinks

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/SethMan31/status/1630623368461402145

[Mr. Inbetween]

Auro ends up signing in Kazakhstan
https://tntsports.com.br/melhorfuteboldomundo/Ex-Santos-e-Sao-Paulo-lateral-Auro-e-o-novo-reforco-do-Ordabasy-do-Cazaquistao-20230303-0025.html


This is nuts. There are far worse players in the league right now (and plenty of other league of a higher quality than where he went). Needs to fire his agent me thinks

I cannot help but feel that somehow, some players have been singed by the Soteldo flame-out. That some sort of Soteldo cloud is following Auro as well as Pozuelo; no difference for me in that Pozuelo ended up in Turkey at Konyaspor which is usually a league middling club that every few years makes it as far as into their top three. IIUC, he is only on contract until the end of this season? IMHO, both should have found another home within MLS.

[Yuushalinsky]

https://twitter.com/realstevescores/status/1633082779759169537?t=f-SZ3L8hIOG1mw5T_dFQBw&s=19

This one kind of pisses me off - Toronto should be in on these kinds of players given limitations

[Mr. Inbetween]

Chugga, chugga, choo, choo... all aboard? Smoke... & Fire? Never say never! MLS can be creative too... A slice of a/the club ownership pie and btw, welcome to Miami's Freedom Park Sports & Entertainment complex's one and only latest... 'Parador' Lionel. Perhaps, even, @ Vegas, baby? With Apple? In the immortal exchange between Big Joe and Crapgame... Make a deal? What kinda deal? A deal deal!... business is business.

https://twitter.com/ISWTPod/status/1633190588202754049


http://youtube.com/watch?v=mM4IjBt46Z0

[ag futbol]

https://twitter.com/SethMan31/status/1630623368461402145
If Bruce Arena can’t get the best out of this guy, nobody will. Maybe the hard ass, take no prisoners approach is what he needs. Never really struck me as putting his foot on the gas while playing with TFC.

[Ultra & Proud]

Chugga, chugga, choo, choo... all aboard? Smoke... & Fire? Never say never! MLS can be creative too... A slice of a/the club ownership pie
Last rumor I heard was a 20% ownership stake of Miami and a solid cut of merch sales.

On the football side some of his people talked about MLS and saying that if he comes he wanted to be like Beckham in the way that Beckham is referred to as being the guy that changed MLS from 1.0 to what it has become today. If Messi comes he wants to be known as a player, along with Beckham, that was key in the development of the league. I assume that means a major shake up of the cap, the DP numbers, or the amount of TAM signings and how that works against the cap. I can't see him coming here to play along with what's currently in Miami. He will want it stocked with players of a certain quality and from there it will spread to the ambitious clubs.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Last rumor I heard was a 20% ownership stake of Miami and a solid cut of merch sales. On the football side some of his people talked about MLS and saying that if he comes he wanted to be like Beckham in the way that Beckham is referred to as being the guy that changed MLS from 1.0 to what it has become today. If Messi comes he wants to be known as a player, along with Beckham, that was key in the development of the league. I assume that means a major shake up of the cap, the DP numbers, or the amount of TAM signings and how that works against the cap. I can't see him coming here to play along with what's currently in Miami. He will want it stocked with players of a certain quality and from there it will spread to the ambitious clubs.

All you suggest is reasonable to me. IMHO, the generational bench-markers in the development/evolution of football in North America... The NY Cosmos w/Pele, Beckenbauer, Chinaglia, then LA Galaxy w/Beckham, and now IMCF with Messi. Well... looks like he is mos def not going back to Barca now with that emerging circus; corruption charges and conditional transfer ban. The confluence of happenstance factors... my Spidey-Sense is a tingling!

BTW, these latest pickings/nuggets, FWIW...

https://twitter.com/NicoSchira/status/1634328086249455617

https://twitter.com/OLBG/status/1634184831495204865

https://twitter.com/IndependentSG/status/1634507437804773376

[los sonadores]

Interesting article on James Sands return to NYCFC.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/james-sands-vows-to-step-up-as-a-leader-at-nycfc-after-rangers-loan

[jloome]

O'Brien finalizing his move to DC today.

O'Brien and Klisch behind Taxi Fountas and Christian Benteke is a seriously dangerous middle of the field in this league.

[jloome]

If Bruce Arena can’t get the best out of this guy, nobody will. Maybe the hard ass, take no prisoners approach is what he needs. Never really struck me as putting his foot on the gas while playing with TFC.

I think they should get past the arrogance about his ball skills and move him to centre half. I mean, the dude is 6'7 or something now and he doesn't read the two-way game particularly well. Passing backlines are pretty common now.

[TheGoodson]

This all day… he would be an ideal cb. Just needs to add some muscle to his frame.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Nothing confirmed... tho chatter seems to be intensifying... spinning into a whirlwind... I BELIEVE... The GOAT will soon browse on MLS... 20SEP23! :)

[los sonadores]

O'Brien finalizing his move to DC today.

O'Brien and Klisch behind Taxi Fountas and Christian Benteke is a seriously dangerous middle of the field in this league.

Ah, I saw that coming a mile away. I don’t think he was for us, on a few levels.

[jloome]

Al Hillal of Saudi Arabia reportedly offering Messi $220M per year. I don't think he's going to Miami.

[Richard]

Insanity is the only way to describe it.

[ensco]

Al Hillal of Saudi Arabia reportedly offering Messi $220M per year. I don't think he's going to Miami.

If Messi is going to play for $30-40M next season some place because he owns property and likes it there, that would only be in one place -Barcelona.

Otherwise he goes to Saudi.

This has been an irritating kabuki MLS has been running for Apple's benefit since day one.

[jloome]

If Messi is going to play for $30-40M next season some place because he owns property and likes it there, that would only be in one place -Barcelona.

Otherwise he goes to Saudi.

This has been an irritating kabuki MLS has been running for Apple's benefit since day one.

Miami's too. They've sold out everything but single seats through to the second half of the season, apparently, just on the rumour.

[Bushmancan]

^they haven’t released 2nd half single game seats yet for the remainder of the season on Ticketmaster or InterMiami’ websites officially yet.( https://www.intermiamicf.com/tickets/single ) or hadn’t as of last week. Generally speaking what is being sold for the 2nd half is resale by and large.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Al Hillal of Saudi Arabia reportedly offering Messi $220M per year. I don't think he's going to Miami.


If Messi is going to play for $30-40M next season some place because he owns property and likes it there, that would only be in one place -Barcelona. Otherwise he goes to Saudi. This has been an irritating kabuki MLS has been running for Apple's benefit since day one.

I am probably peeing into the wind on this one. But that's fine, it happens. I enjoy a bit of pie in the sky for the soul. I would like to think Messi is a different kind of cat, not all tuna, we shall shortly see. I hope he is interested in more than money to leave as, or add to, his legacy; me thinks his family already enjoys generational wealth. IDK, maybe grabbing hands always want to grab all they can; while they can? I believe the influence of other esoteric forces are at play. Being of our time, at the right time, for football in North America, for MLS/FIFA and for the potential the market offers as a frontier and all that that encompasses. The one step beyond. He would be transformative, up there with B&C&P @ NY Cosmos and Beckham @ LAG. Say what you will, I suspect that sort of gravitas is still powerful to a legend. What do you offer someone who has everything? Maybe another significant footnote in the annals of footballs? Barca is a fair default, home, but it is in shambles and not an adventurous way to go out; more like the safe choice. The KSA? There is nothing there to give to be valued and treasured historically. He offers no value-add to 'the beautiful game' by going/being there.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Other ongoings...

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1635636456436772865

[ensco]

I am probably peeing into the wind on this one. But that's fine, it happens. I enjoy a bit of pie in the sky for the soul. I would like to think Messi is a different kind of cat, not all tuna, we shall shortly see. I hope he is interested in more than money to leave as, or add to, his legacy; me thinks his family already enjoys generational wealth. IDK, maybe grabbing hands always want to grab all they can; while they can? I believe the influence of other esoteric forces are at play. Being of our time, at the right time, for football in North America, for MLS/FIFA and for the potential the market offers as a frontier and all that that encompasses. The one step beyond. He would be transformative, up there with B&C&P @ NY Cosmos and Beckham @ LAG. Say what you will, I suspect that sort of gravitas is still powerful to a legend. What do you offer someone who has everything? Maybe another significant footnote in the annals of footballs? Barca is a fair default, home, but it is in shambles and not an adventurous way to go out; more like the safe choice. The KSA? There is nothing there to give to be valued and treasured historically. He offers no value-add to 'the beautiful game' by going/being there.

These things could all be true, but they aren’t especially likely.

He might do it, I mean what do I know? But Pele is widely viewed by non North Americans to have wasted his time here - that won’t be what his marketing people are telling him…

I just think all the non financial pieces point “home” to Barcelona, and I think its compelling…

[TheGoodson]

I doubt he goes back to Barcelona as they are in shambles especially with the latest scandal

also IMO he has young children and I bet miami is a lot more attractive then Saudi Arabia with a young family. Seba left his wife and kids here when he signed there

plus I don’t really think money is the driver it’s more about where would they have a better lifestyle

[jloome]

I doubt he goes back to Barcelona as they are in shambles especially with the latest scandal

also IMO he has young children and I bet miami is a lot more attractive then Saudi Arabia with a young family. Seba left his wife and kids here when he signed there

plus I don’t really think money is the driver it’s more about where would they have a better lifestyle

When someone's offering you $220M to perform a task that, in just two or three years, you will no longer be able to perform, I'd say mone yis very much the driving issue.

If it wasn't, he'd be in Miami tomorrow. He's already won everything, he's already the consensus greatest ever, and he loves it there apparently.

But MLS's money is going to be an intangible, a gamble, like Beckham getting a cut of LA Galaxy revenue. Whenever you take a deal like that, you're girding up to at some point have your lawyers fighting their lawyers. It worked out for Beckham and he made a half-billion dollars off it.

But... Messi's already guaranteed that in Saudi Arabia, just by showing up. His family will just stay in Spain and he'll jet back privately whenever he feels like it.

THey'll probably give him a four-year-deal AND incentives, so unless MLS is going to figure out a way to give the man a BILLION dollars to play football for two or three years....

Saudi oil money colors all things.

[JonO]

We are all just guessing at what the wealthy will do. He is already estimated to be worth about $600 million. Sure he could go to SA and do well for himself, but at some point you have enough wealth.

Other factors at play include ego. This would pay him more than Ronaldo.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Final destination intrigue continues...

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2023/03/15/the-astronomical-contract-offer-that-could-see-lionel-messi-join-ronaldo-in-saudi-arabia/

[los sonadores]

We are all just guessing at what the wealthy will do. He is already estimated to be worth about $600 million. Sure he could go to SA and do well for himself, but at some point you have enough wealth.

Other factors at play include ego. This would pay him more than Ronaldo.

We live in a culture/world in which the winner is the one who is the wealthiest. And in the case of football, it’s also evidence of being the best, of being appreciated, respected, loved. It’s weird and unhealthy but it’s not very often someone takes less to stay in a place he has real feelings for… like our much maligned captain has done.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Would the signing of Busquets by IMCF signal the coming of Messi?

https://twitter.com/XGLAVOZ/status/1636176935385432068

[jloome]

Would the signing of Busquets by IMCF signal the coming of Messi?

https://twitter.com/XGLAVOZ/status/1636176935385432068

No.

Why would it? Different levels of player. Older Euro stars come here all the time.

The greatest player ever doesn't. If he does, I can't see this having any impact on it.

[OgtheDim]

We don't see any many older stars come here as we used to see.

[JoesphNdo]

We don't see any many older stars come here as we used to see.

The business model for big salaries isn't there anymore. Busquets isn't selling a ticket or an apple tv subscription, so you've no money return, and the on field return for them has been 50/50 at best recently. I think as a general practice this has mostly gone the way of the dodo outside of exceptional circumstances for your truly completely spent former star types

[ensco]

How many 35 year olds are on 3.5M euros? Busquets is a DM. He has no business being insulted by that.

[Mr. Inbetween]

My perspective is sympatico with Herc's latest on this matter. Seems to confirm that MLS is responsible for MLS Season Pass production, Apple is/provides the platform. Pressure is on! From 48:50 to 53:35.


https//youtube.com/watch?v=Bv-Qgi1Mw1I?t=2930

[Mr. Inbetween]

The latest steeped tea...

https://www.insidesport.in/football-ligue-1-lionel-messi-psg-messis-father-labels-three-stories-by-top-publication-as-fake-news-claims-psg-superstar-didnt-stormed-out-of-training-is-not-stalling-contract-talks-check-out

[Mr. Inbetween]

WTF??? No interest even as a MLS backup? Not even by Philly? Odd.

https://twitter.com/JeffreyCarlisle/status/1637817806749302786

[Blindside16]

WTF??? No interest even as a MLS backup? Not even by Philly? Odd.

https://twitter.com/JeffreyCarlisle/status/1637817806749302786

I am not overly shocked. I always thought he was over rated and always had the impression he was an egomaniac.

[Ultra & Proud]

No word on Vanney getting sacked yet but you have feel it will be coming after the Gals surely get stomped by LAFC this weekend.

Now that's a team that is for sure coming apart at the seams. That match against Houston was a disgrace in terms of their play and their professionalism. Really their whole FO should be shown the door but they won't be. I know if I was running the show there I would buy out Costa ASAP but really they should have done that already.

Feel a bit bad for Vanney but he knew what he would be getting into. This is the way for LAG nowadays; MLS 2.0 forever.

[OgtheDim]

No word on Vanney getting sacked yet but you have feel it will be coming after the Gals surely get stomped by LAFC this weekend.

Now that's a team that is for sure coming apart at the seams. That match against Houston was a disgrace in terms of their play and their professionalism. Really their whole FO should be shown the door but they won't be. I know if I was running the show there I would buy out Costa ASAP but really they should have done that already.

Feel a bit bad for Vanney but he knew what he would be getting into. This is the way for LAG nowadays; MLS 2.0 forever.

The problem at LAG lies above Vanney.

Klein held a meeting with the SG's, who are boycotting games still, this weekend and his basic point was everything was being done to fill Vanney's vision right now. There is much evidence that Klein is BAD at developing a team & ownership finally realised it this off season. So LAG is going to go through a LOT of issues before 6 years of stupidity gets cleansed. But until they ditch Klein, the team will remain in off field crisis.

[Ultra & Proud]

The problem at LAG lies above Vanney.

Klein held a meeting with the SG's, who are boycotting games still, this weekend and his basic point was everything was being done to fill Vanney's vision right now. There is much evidence that Klein is BAD at developing a team & ownership finally realised it this off season. So LAG is going to go through a LOT of issues before 6 years of stupidity gets cleansed. But until they ditch Klein, the team will remain in off field crisis.
Klein sent out an email yesterday to SSHs saying that if the Gals don't advance in the playoffs he will resign. I figure that will put even more pressure on Vanney because Klein will want some results.

Too bad for Vanney. Had he of picked anywhere other than that LA to go, which everyone knew would be a bust, then he'd probably be in the USMNT conversation now instead of being an MLS also ran. Maybe he can get the Montreal gig after crazy Joey sacks Losada.

[OgtheDim]

And the response from the Galaxy SAG's is what was to be expected.

https://twitter.com/GalaxyPodcast/status/1646280425306992640

[ensco]

Is it just me, or is Montreal actually insane to have traded Miller plus $1.3M today for a middling prospect today?

[jloome]

Is it just me, or is Montreal actually insane to have traded Miller plus $1.3M today for a middling prospect today?

Montreal fans say Miller is on the decline but I suspect they're just butthurt at what is, on the face, highway robbery.

[los sonadores]

Montreal fans say Miller is on the decline but I suspect they're just butthurt at what is, on the face, highway robbery.

Who isn’t on the decline at that club?

[barticusz]

I've watched a number of Montreal games this year as well as Vancouver (thank you AppleTV!). MTL look like absolute shite. Not a Kamal problem in my mind. They gutted really key aspects of that team and lost Nancy, who really had them playing as a unit and some great football. Getting out of there is a great thing for Kamal. Paying an extra $1.2M in gam seems absolutely insane to me. Not sure what they're thinking.

[los sonadores]

No word on Vanney getting sacked yet but you have feel it will be coming after the Gals surely get stomped by LAFC this weekend.

Now that's a team that is for sure coming apart at the seams. That match against Houston was a disgrace in terms of their play and their professionalism. Really their whole FO should be shown the door but they won't be. I know if I was running the show there I would buy out Costa ASAP but really they should have done that already.

Feel a bit bad for Vanney but he knew what he would be getting into. This is the way for LAG nowadays; MLS 2.0 forever.

I had no idea that when Vanney arrived last year they had no full time scouting department. And still don’t have an analytics department.

[ensco]

Montreal fans say Miller is on the decline but I suspect they're just butthurt at what is, on the face, highway robbery.

He is one of five guys that were outstanding against Belgium and then looked overmatched against Croatia, but somehow he seems to be the one that is “wearing” that Croatia game in terms of his reputation.

I like where we got to at CB - but wish we could have been in the mix for him, given how Montreal valued him

[Mr. Inbetween]

Is it just me, or is Montreal actually insane to have traded Miller plus $1.3M today for a middling prospect today?

Cause it was...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fkF0BSU01w (http://[video=youtube;6fkF0BSU01w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fkF0BSU01w[video])

[ensco]

MLS Extratime guys are losing their minds about the Miller deal. They are in disbelief. Saying unnamed MLS execs are calling it the worst trade in MLS history.

[Canary10]

MLS Extratime guys are losing their minds about the Miller deal. They are in disbelief. Saying unnamed MLS execs are calling it the worst trade in MLS history.

Is it possible he just demanded out? Between the coach and the owner, there is a whole lot of crap over there. As Ultra said, let's just be glad he got out of there, for the sake of him and the CMNT.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The conspiracist in me is hoping it's one Argentinean bleating for another to join him at MLS. :)

[los sonadores]

Cincinnati about to transfer Brenner to Udinese for apx.10 million or more.

[jloome]

He is one of five guys that were outstanding against Belgium and then looked overmatched against Croatia, but somehow he seems to be the one that is “wearing” that Croatia game in terms of his reputation.

I like where we got to at CB - but wish we could have been in the mix for him, given how Montreal valued him

The MLS Extra Time guys called it "an insane trade" on the face of it, with them all assuming at first the $1.3M was also going to Montreal. Even then it would've been a bad deal.

Doyle calls it "the worst trade in the history of MLS."

[Ultra & Proud]

The MLS Extra Time guys called it "an insane trade" on the face of it, with them all assuming at first the $1.3M was also going to Montreal. Even then it would've been a bad deal.

Doyle calls it "the worst trade in the history of MLS."
This deal was so bad I don't even really know what to say. It's flabbergasting.

It's like the owners know MLS 1 & 2 are coming along with pro-rel and Joey wants in the basement before anyone else gets there.

[bald eagle]

This deal was so bad I don't even really know what to say. It's flabbergasting.

It's like the owners know MLS 1 & 2 are coming along with pro-rel and Joey wants in the basement before anyone else gets there.
How that owner in Montreal can screw up that MLS franchise and be so successful with his Serie A team makes my head spin. He took over Bologna the year they were relegated and now he has them challenging for a place in the European club competitions. Montreal is a nasty train wreck.

[Kamp Berg]

How that owner in Montreal can screw up that MLS franchise and be so successful with his Serie A team makes my head spin. He took over Bologna the year they were relegated and now he has them challenging for a place in the European club competitions. Montreal is a nasty train wreck.

I’m pretty there are multiple owners at Bologna.

[bald eagle]

I’m pretty there are multiple owners at Bologna.
Actually no, Wiki claims Saputo owns 99.93%

[wopchop]

Actually no, Wiki claims Saputo owns 99.93%
Maybe the 0.07% is the brains of the operation.

[jloome]

Maybe there's so deeper family-related issue. I mean, Joey's pop was a made guy, and Miami is full of... retirees.

[bald eagle]

Maybe there's so deeper family-related issue. I mean, Joey's pop was a made guy, and Miami is full of... retirees.
Been doing a bit of research , never realized how successful the Saputos are , top 10 richest families in Canada , is selling cheese that lucrative? Sounds like these two Soccer clubs are just play things for Joey

[FiveThreeTwo]

It is when they slowly corner the cheese market alongside paramalat/Lactalis and kraft heinze by not only building their own product lines, but buying up every independent little man cheese maker between charlottetown to victoria - and especially Ontario for the milk quotas. Most Canadians are getting their everyday cheese and dairy products from one of those 3.

Also improves their bottom line when they can cheapen their product by swapping whole milk ingredients in these small town cheeses with 'modified milk ingredients'. Ontop of the known history with organized crime, i'd say they are in a healthy spot atm with the inflation and food price increases... but I don't pay much attention to their financials

I'm not in the industry, but tend to drive up to a cottage every year north of tweed and always stop-in at Maple Dale Cheese - who seem to be in a constant battle trying to push away acquisition offers from the companies above. Hope they don't anytime soon.

-still... to round it back to the MLS discussion, the minute I saw the news break of the trade it looked like a real bizarre transaction and real missmatch in player evalutions. Time will tell tho I guess.

[Mr. Inbetween]

How that owner in Montreal can screw up that MLS franchise and be so successful with his Serie A team makes my head spin. He took over Bologna the year they were relegated and now he has them challenging for a place in the European club competitions. Montreal is a nasty train wreck.

Cause SerieA was, still sort of is, a train wreck. IIUC, one could have gained control of a club like ASRoma when MBradley was there/about a dozen years ago for only about 100M CAD!

[Mr. Inbetween]

Also, this may add perspective to the CFMTL firesale…

https://football-italia.net/president-saputo-balances-bologna-books-with-40m/

[Mr. Inbetween]

Maybe there's...

Speaking of Joey- The Saputo’s, if you have a moment, recommend to learn up on this character; another Joey - Tacopina. Lots of interesting life/work intersects, some current America politics relevance, a ‘consigliere’ of sorts, with connects to / representing investment funds. Significant involvement in Italian football.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Interesting article on Messi’s dilemma…

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/lionel-messi-mls-inter-miami-psg-transfer-now-or-never/geuvk75lulczpisvcl4sntoh

[ensco]

Also, this may add perspective to the CFMTL firesale…

https://football-italia.net/president-saputo-balances-bologna-books-with-40m/

This is a super illuminating story that explains a lot. Thanks for posting this.

[Kamp Berg]

Actually no, Wiki claims Saputo owns 99.93%

Ah, thanks, I read he has partners, didn’t realize they were so minor.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Andrea D’Amico… busy, busy, busy?

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1649091520048381955

[Mr. Inbetween]

This is just sooo weird, even if a former PSG’er, given the ongoing circumstances; Beckham stirring the MLS media/fanbase pot?

https://twitter.com/PSG_espanol/status/1651575272062287873

[CBTFC]

To your last point - I think he should go back to Barcelona and that is how I would bet it.

100%

Messi is Barcelona, and it's really disappointing he was forced to leave in the first place.

He, the club and La Liga have a chance to write a fitting end.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Kilbane cried for the GOAT... When Messi raised Jules Rimet’s offspring!

https://twitter.com/NeilMit42376137/status/1655009873266978818

[SenorDingDong]

This is just sooo weird, even if a former PSG’er, given the ongoing circumstances; Beckham stirring the MLS media/fanbase pot?

https://twitter.com/PSG_espanol/status/1651575272062287873

I wish our Midfield had Marco Veratti.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Not a bad wish; I am alright with that kind of ask. Though, I believe he is under contract with PSG ‘till Y26 :(. Instead, would you settle for a Toni Kroos? Believe he may still be available, on a free transfer!, yeah!, this summer window. :)

[Mr. Inbetween]

For some this may be a sign. Which way the wind may be blowing? A canary in the coal mine? The first domino? That the stars may be aligning!

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1656073167205441536

[Canary10]

Kilbane cried for the GOAT... When Messi raised Jules Rimet’s offspring!

https://twitter.com/NeilMit42376137/status/1655009873266978818

MLS writers engaging in fan fiction.

[Mr. Inbetween]

More fan fiction :) …

Though from a marketing aspect, if MLS/Apple are able to covert/capture just 1% of Lionel Messi’s own social media presence- instagram followers, then that would be about 4.5M world wide subscribers!

https://twitter.com/TommyQuinlan_IV/status/1657429490841034752

[613reppingTFC]

I was just looking up the Real Madrid v Man City game and started wondering what's going on with Hazard. Seems a quick search shows that Montreal are apparently interested and have reached out. Doubt he wants to leave Madrid with a year left on his contract and he has really shown nothing while being there either, so not too sure how well he would perform here at 32 with having played only 70 something games the last 4 years. Just thought I'd mention it though.

[SenorDingDong]

I was just looking up the Real Madrid v Man City game and started wondering what's going on with Hazard. Seems a quick search shows that Montreal are apparently interested and have reached out. Doubt he wants to leave Madrid with a year left on his contract and he has really shown nothing while being there either, so not too sure how well he would perform here at 32 with having played only 70 something games the last 4 years. Just thought I'd mention it though.

I think he would be a bust, but all props to Montreal if they want to get him. He is a big name. If nothing else, having big players like that come in would help Insigne / Fede feel better about their decision.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I would prefer Vardy over Hazard; even at his age. Suspect if, seems so, Leicester are relegated and he chooses not to retire, MLS is an option. Likely would desire a payday.

[Canary10]

I would prefer Vardy over Hazard; even at his age. Suspect if, seems so, Leicester are relegated and he chooses not to retire, MLS is an option. Likely would desire a payday.

Worth it for the parties alone.

[RealG-TFC]

Hazard couldn't be bothered to take Madrid seriously, there's no way he would give an iota of shit about MLS.

[Richard]

Why in the world would you want Hazzard, that's washed up ex-footballer, he is retired folks.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I was wondering what was up with, the status of, Messi? If accurate, could this partnership work?

https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1663714005662195715

[Canary10]

Damn apparently Teemu Pukki has an offer from Minnesota.

[Ultra & Proud]

I was wondering what was up with, the status of, Messi? If accurate, could this partnership work?


Technically yes but I don't see how it could match the rumored Saudi money unless a lot of weird MLS incentives and ownership stakes. I mean league ownership, not just Miami.

[ag futbol]

Technically yes but I don't see how it could match the rumored Saudi money unless a lot of weird MLS incentives and ownership stakes. I mean league ownership, not just Miami.
I mean, after Ronaldo’s initial experience and other funniness at PSG, maybe those dollars aren’t as enticing as they were a year ago. But most likely, you’re right.

[Ultra & Proud]

I mean, after Ronaldo’s initial experience and other funniness at PSG, maybe those dollars aren’t as enticing as they were a year ago. But most likely, you’re right.
Seems like he would get a cut of the Apple deal as well as jersey sales.

Still shouldn't equal Saudi money but I am pretty sure he has enough money to retire by now. Not scraping by at this point.

[ag futbol]

Seems like he would get a cut of the Apple deal as well as jersey sales.

Still shouldn't equal Saudi money but I am pretty sure he has enough money to retire by now. Not scraping by at this point.
Unless he’s feeding his family gold plated steaks, should be good.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Unless he’s feeding his family gold plated steaks, should be good.

Well... that extra KSA Do-Re-Me may come in handy, Messi does need a robust fund to feed his training mate Hulk! :)

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1238917898338537472

[Mr. Inbetween]

One step closer? Source is a Spanish/Barca newspaper!? IMCF/Messi offer-details revealed…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2023/06/01/inter-miamis-huge-yearly-offer-to-lionel-messi-revealed-by-report/?sh=389221ae4296

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/oferta-inter-miami-leo-messi-88165430

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_(Spanish_newspaper)

https://twitter.com/263Chat/status/1664652500526419968

[SenorDingDong]

One step closer? Source is a Spanish/Barca newspaper!? IMCF/Messi offer-details revealed…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2023/06/01/inter-miamis-huge-yearly-offer-to-lionel-messi-revealed-by-report/?sh=389221ae4296

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/oferta-inter-miami-leo-messi-88165430

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_(Spanish_newspaper)

https://twitter.com/263Chat/status/1664652500526419968

That's a crazy salary for MLS.

[MikeForbes]

Lots of rumors swirling tonight about Messi and Inter Miami. Say what you want, but no one can deny this would be the biggest signing in MLS history.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I do not know how much juice Hernan Castillo has. Report is out of Argentina- Radio Continental AM590! Done!? Let's see if FRomano (a follower) breaks it? :)

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Other reports, some lost in translation going on?, indicate he suggested Messi will play for IMCF next season!? Perhaps, implying that he does a series of 'goodbye' matches for Barca?

[ensco]

I don’t believe a word of it, this is the MLS office doing the CR7 to SKC dance v2.0.

That Saudi golf deal tells me this is over. Like, it ended months ago. He is going to Saudi.

MLS sold Apple on the idea that they would get guys like Ronaldo and Messi, and now they have tap dancing to do.

[noxx98]

https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1666275100130148352
Not so fast on Saudi apparently...

[Mr. Inbetween]

I don’t believe a word of it, this is the MLS office doing the CR7 to SKC dance v2.0. That Saudi golf deal tells me this is over. Like, it ended months ago. He is going to Saudi. MLS sold Apple on the idea that they would get guys like Ronaldo and Messi, and now they have tap dancing to do.

Maybe. I choose to believe. Could it be that these signals, right now, and in the last several days... of 1/reports-video of Messi's dad meeting with Barca after La Liga supposedly granted them a special reprieve on aspects of their FFP decision and 2/ details of MLS's offer emerging... are just the effects preceded and evidenced by days earlier reporting of the KSA's Pro League's additional spending budget of 20 billion! Perhaps being caused because the Saudi's understood they were out of the Messi contention, leading them to a mind-boggling double down in order to suck as much of the available transfer player oxygen and attention out of the Messi room. Which, in turn, has now lead to the signing of Benzema and with reports of many other potential signings possible; like Kante, Sanchez, Son.

[ensco]

^I always thought Messi would go back to Barca. That would be what he does if somehow sentiment matters more than money.

I am a bit out on a limb here, given that I know nothing, but I just find that these Messi to Miami stories defy logic and common sense.

[OgtheDim]

^I always thought Messi would go back to Barca. That would be what he does if somehow sentiment matters more than money.

I am a bit out on a limb here, given that I know nothing, but I just find that these Messi to Miami stories defy logic and common sense.

The stories themselves stem from self interest - Miami has to be seen to be doing something & reporters are being fed almost exactly what they are doing.

On another note, the golf analogy isn't the same - golf has been a "stateless" game for decades where local affinity is maybe the 5th consideration for where a tournament is played - and even then, nobody is suggesting all golf tournaments be played in the KSA.

Nobody is going to watch Messi play in the KSA league - people don't watch Ronaldo now. There is at least a patina of interest in MLS venue experience that would make the Messi experiment - and its an experiment & a gamble by Messi no matter where he goes - of interest.

[JoesphNdo]

I give the rumours some credibility, I've said before but I think the apple tv deal has changed the equation considerably and the offer to Messi, i suspect, is both real and far higher than people would suspect

I still think Barcelona is the most logical and likely destination, but I can see MLS overall putting something more attractive than Saudi together (even if the $$ isn't as high)

As an aside I think the way Saudi are attempting to build their league is absolutely insane and they will eventually realize they're burning money with no return in a way that'd make bill manning blush. Like china I suspect they eventually quietly just stop when they don't get the instant gratification from it, but for now it'll be a great place for people to get their retirement pay day

[Mr. Inbetween]

Oh boy! Wow! Rumours that he has now given, for what it would be worth, a verbal agreement! Bonkers! Just nuts!

[Mr. Inbetween]

I cannot believe, that on August 30, 2023, Nashville, Gary Smith, Lukas MacNaughton and Jacob Shaffelburg will enjoy the possibility to experience this...

https://twitter.com/MLS_Buzz/status/1666215076380983298

[OgtheDim]

... the golf analogy isn't the same - golf has been a "stateless" game for decades where local affinity is maybe the 5th consideration for where a tournament is played - and even then, nobody is suggesting all golf tournaments be played in the KSA....

Just another personal note for the golf thing.


The news about global oil taking over golf's game was delivered to golf's finest players where?

Smack dab in the middle of one of the more poorer neighbourhoods in the city - where I used to work as a community worker wondering why this barb wired lush greenness mostly used by rich white folks was still allowed to exist

Sheppard & Jane

So, yeh, golf is REALLY removed from its surroundings way more then soccer will ever be

[SenorDingDong]

Oh boy! Wow! Rumours that he has now given, for what it would be worth, a verbal agreement! Bonkers! Just nuts!

I personally do hope it happens. It would light an extra fire in guys like Insigne and also help validate their decision to come.

Would be extremely good for the league too and also would be very happy he would not go the Saudi oil money route...

[JoesphNdo]

BBC (via Guillem Balague, who is semi credible in this sense - he is a bit tabloidy at times, but is also very connected to Messi) are reporting it as nearly done

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but there is no doubt in my mind MLS has been a credible player in this game and this is not just smoke - they are trying very hard to land him, and comping with a big offer and a belief that it's at least possible. Now it's possible that they still don't get him and that other offers win (As I said, I have to believe Barcelona is his first choice, and even this could just be leverage there) but they are absolutely in the conversation

[SenorDingDong]

BBC (via Guillem Balague, who is semi credible in this sense - he is a bit tabloidy at times, but is also very connected to Messi) are reporting it as nearly done

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but there is no doubt in my mind MLS has been a credible player in this game and this is not just smoke - they are trying very hard to land him, and comping with a big offer and a belief that it's at least possible. Now it's possible that they still don't get him and that other offers win (As I said, I have to believe Barcelona is his first choice, and even this could just be leverage there) but they are absolutely in the conversation

Personally I think going back to Barca would be a let down for him and the fans. He left there on such a high note, its not going to be the same going back. He's not going to get the same results.

[JoesphNdo]

Personally I think going back to Barca would be a let down for him and the fans. He left there on such a high note, its not going to be the same going back. He's not going to get the same results.

Yeah it comes down to motivation. There's a few records that Ronaldo holds over Messi because he played more games in Europe that Messi is in touching distance of grabbing (All time top scorer in the champions league is one that comes to mind). Does that bother him? I suspect not as much as it would bother Ronaldo, but that could be a motivator to stay in Europe and, if staying in Europe and not PSG, Barcelona makes alot of sense. But only Messi could tell you if he cares about that or if he's happy to sail into the sunet the world cup winner and, probably, most popular pick for the sports GOAT as is

[los sonadores]

In more humdrum but more local news, a random article on Richie in Forest News.

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2023/06/06/nottingham-forest-owned-richie-laryea-stars-during-weekend-outing/

[Mr. Inbetween]

^I always thought Messi would go back to Barca. That would be what he does if somehow sentiment matters more than money. I am a bit out on a limb here, given that I know nothing, but I just find that these Messi to Miami stories defy logic and common sense.

If you know nothing... well than, if it were possible, I then know much much less... Remember, Messi, himself has defied logic several times. IIRC, we agree he is THE GOAT; at least of modern era football. I would not fret too much, I too believe that the Barca option is very much in play. That somehow, his feet will again touch Camp Nou's grass pitch in play; even if it is just for one match. The problem is that Barca is in such utter financial shambles; supposedly, at least 1.5B in Bartomeu debt and exacerbated by the Covid Pandemic. Still, I suspect any team they would field would be better than any IMCF may. I keep saying it, and maybe this is all just smoke and mirrors to get the KSA to up their ante, now/last reported at 1.2B!!!, Messi is a different cat. Although that is aaalot of Tuuunaaa to be leaving in any dish. Maybe his motives are altruistic; laughably, he may not want to contribute to the notion that we are all already paying too much for gas and home heating oil. Or, he may just not care for the KSA life; his family life may be a part of that equation. I mean, Ronaldo's there, already did it, done it. Maybe in the end and in good conscious, he will not play for a league that until 2017 did not allow woman in their stadiums and to this day, separates them conveniently in 'family sections'. The Spock in me says the KSA move is the one that should be happening. Although, I think there is no value add to his legacy brand by such a move. Miami, instead, does propel him into the centre of an untapped football marketplace- universe. Overnight he displaces Pele to grandfather and Beckham to uncle, from father and son respectfully, while positioning himself as the father of North American football's professional world stage evolution. If not, in the personal sense, Miami is the LatinX capitial of the world; a gateway to Argentina and Spain. He already has interests there. His family life would at least be comfortable and unobstructed.

[Canary10]

Looks like it's a done deal if Twitter is to be believed. Stunning.

[SenorDingDong]

Looks like it's a done deal if Twitter is to be believed. Stunning.

Its being reported on every major news outlet.

https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/lionel-messi-to-join-inter-miami-of-mls-1.1970249

[OgtheDim]

In more humdrum but more local news, a random article on Richie in Forest News.

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2023/06/06/nottingham-forest-owned-richie-laryea-stars-during-weekend-outing/


That reads like the John Molinaro of Nottingham Forest land....

thanks for the find

[JoesphNdo]

The betting market is basically treating this as a nearly done deal fwiw - https://www.oddschecker.com/us/soccer/specials/player-specials/lionel-messi/club-after-summer-transfer-window

[jloome]

The betting market is basically treating this as a nearly done deal fwiw - https://www.oddschecker.com/us/soccer/specials/player-specials/lionel-messi/club-after-summer-transfer-window

The BBC is reporting it. They don't often get "will" stories wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65832658

[jloome]

^I always thought Messi would go back to Barca. That would be what he does if somehow sentiment matters more than money.

I am a bit out on a limb here, given that I know nothing, but I just find that these Messi to Miami stories defy logic and common sense.

If the stories are to be believed he's getting profit points from Apple and MLS, merchandising as well as a franchise opportunity. Given that a similar deal for Beckham WITHOUT the Apple component netted him a billion dollars in five years....

[JoesphNdo]

The BBC is reporting it. They don't often get "will" stories wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65832658

Yeah for sure. As I said Balague is an interesting source here. He definitely has a (partially unfair) reputation for making shit up, but, he's also extremely connected to Barcelona & Messi and I doubt BBC reports this without some seriously credible sources behind it. I think it's far more likely than not happening, but wouldn't quite be out buying a Messi jersey if I'm a Miami fan just yet, there's always the possibility that this is a leverage play

[ag futbol]

i’d be interested to see from MLS‘s perspective where they hope the league is before and after Messi plays.

With Beckham I think it was really about creating an awareness of the league, getting people to understand we had a football league in North America. Our own timing was very beneficial to that fact and certainly helped TFC launch.

With Messi, I’m a little less sure what this does. Win over soccer fans in the US who do not currently watch MLS? More global appeal?

[OgtheDim]

Just so people know what to tell their friends/co workers / odd relatives who may vaguely remember that you have seats at BMO



Miami doesn't came back again until 2024

[JoesphNdo]

i’d be interested to see from MLS‘s perspective where they hope the league is before and after Messi plays.

With Beckham I think it was really about creating an awareness of the league, getting people to understand we had a football league in North America. Our own timing was very beneficial to that fact and certainly helped TFC launch.

With Messi, I’m a little less sure what this does. Win over soccer fans in the US who do not currently watch MLS? More global appeal?

Sells Apple TV subscriptions globally, basically. The game changed with Apple TV, MLS has never had the opportunity to monetize a Messi in this way before, it completely changed the economics here.

It's also an unknown and therefore a risk, but the opportunity on a Messi signing increased exponentially when they turned their TV coverage into one single, globally accessible stream package they can sell directly to anyone with an internet connection

IF this happens, expect Miami kick off times to move around quite a bit

EDIT - And yep, good call below from Og, getting him involved as a face of the world cup or somehow find a way to work him there also adds value

[OgtheDim]

i’d be interested to see from MLS‘s perspective where they hope the league is before and after Messi plays.

With Beckham I think it was really about creating an awareness of the league, getting people to understand we had a football league in North America. Our own timing was very beneficial to that fact and certainly helped TFC launch.

With Messi, I’m a little less sure what this does. Win over soccer fans in the US who do not currently watch MLS? More global appeal?


Messi would be in MLS until after the 2026 WC. THAT'S the big play here.


Whether the league can deal with the BAD refs we currently have & whether people will accept 90k earning kid midfielders being berated for not being where he wants them to be is another matter.

[ensco]

Well - my big opinion aged well!

Just in case I was wrong about this… I bought on stubhub 4 tickets to the TFC game in Miami in September for $30 each, a few days ago. So I have that to salve my wounded ego.

[OgtheDim]

Well - my big opinion aged well!

Just in case I was wrong about this… I bought on stubhub 4 tickets to the TFC game in Miami in September for $30 each, a few days ago. So I have that to salve my wounded ego.


Nice investment.....

[benito]

Just so people know what to tell their friends/co workers / odd relatives who may vaguely remember that you have seats at BMO

Miami doesn't came back again until 2024

Hahaha… Just received a couple of texts about my seats.

[ag futbol]

Sells Apple TV subscriptions globally, basically. The game changed with Apple TV, MLS has never had the opportunity to monetize a Messi in this way before, it completely changed the economics here.

It's also an unknown and therefore a risk, but the opportunity on a Messi signing increased exponentially when they turned their TV coverage into one single, globally accessible stream package they can sell directly to anyone with an internet connection

IF this happens, expect Miami kick off times to move around quite a bit

EDIT - And yep, good call below from Og, getting him involved as a face of the world cup or somehow find a way to work him there also adds value


Messi would be in MLS until after the 2026 WC. THAT'S the big play here.


Whether the league can deal with the BAD refs we currently have & whether people will accept 90k earning kid midfielders being berated for not being where he wants them to be is another matter.
That all makes sense, great insight.

OG, look at the bring side, that’s way more than the $12k we paid Gabe Gala to score against Real Madrid :)

[Mr. Inbetween]

Yeah for sure. As I said Balague is an interesting source here. He definitely has a (partially unfair) reputation for making shit up, but, he's also extremely connected to Barcelona & Messi and I doubt BBC reports this without some seriously credible sources behind it. I think it's far more likely than not happening, but wouldn't quite be out buying a Messi jersey if I'm a Miami fan just yet, there's always the possibility that this is a leverage play

Maybe. The real question is who is Hernan Castillo? Everyone else is the afterthought.

[OgtheDim]

This deleted tweet by Apple TV has big "Welcome Diego Forlan" vibes


https://twitter.com/jeffrueter/status/1666465449813442567

[JoesphNdo]

This deleted tweet by Apple TV has big "Welcome Diego Forlan" vibes


https://twitter.com/jeffrueter/status/1666465449813442567

So they also announced a Messi documentary, I think. So I think this one was a really cheeky way to stoke hype while also not actually saying what everyone thinks they're saying. I'm surprised they deleted it.

[Ultra & Proud]

Whether the league can deal with the BAD refs we currently have & whether people will accept 90k earning kid midfielders being berated for not being where he wants them to be is another matter.
They won't do anything about the shit refs but I think they'll change roster rules to accomodate him and that will affect all the teams.

[MikeForbes]

They won't do anything about the shit refs but I think they'll change roster rules to accomodate him and that will affect all the teams.

EPL fans moan on the reg about how awful the officiating is and that is supposedly the best league in the world. Not to defend the refs in MLS or anything because they do suck, but the officials will forever be scapegoats for when you don't want to admit your team lost the game. Been that way since I remember watching sports I seriously doubt it ever changes.

[MikeForbes]

Inter Miami having themselves a day.

https://twitter.com/AlbicelesteTalk/status/1666469387551768581?s=20

[MikeForbes]

And... Here we go.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666473832796901376?s=20

[JoesphNdo]

Inter Miami having themselves a day.

https://twitter.com/AlbicelesteTalk/status/1666469387551768581?s=20

I thought that was a done deal the minute he said MLS, and said as much. If MLS is serious about bringing Messi in they'd demand Miami can Phil Neville and bring in Tata. It just made all the sense in the world. You need to sell Messi the entire package, and would he prefer to play under Tata or Phil Neville?

[Ultra & Proud]

EPL fans moan on the reg about how awful the officiating is and that is supposedly the best league in the world. Not to defend the refs in MLS or anything because they do suck, but the officials will forever be scapegoats for when you don't want to admit your team lost the game. Been that way since I remember watching sports I seriously doubt it ever changes.
Normally yes but I watch a lot of matches of teams and leagues that I don't care about and when I watch random MLS matches during the week I see a lot of really poor calls. Or missed ones. More than I see in other random leagues I watch except for maybe the Saudi league.

[jloome]

I thought that was a done deal the minute he said MLS, and said as much. If MLS is serious about bringing Messi in they'd demand Miami can Phil Neville and bring in Tata. It just made all the sense in the world. You need to sell Messi the entire package, and would he prefer to play under Tata or Phil Neville?

Given that Messi once threatened to retire from the Argentine national team rather than play again for Martino, this one is a little surprising if true. They also worked together at Barcelona and Messi apparently does not like him.

[JoesphNdo]

Given that Messi once threatened to retire from the Argentine national team rather than play again for Martino, this one is a little surprising if true. They also worked together at Barcelona and Messi apparently does not like him.

You know, I somehow completely forgot about the rumours of them not getting along for some reason! Yeah, you're right, not sure how I forgot that. That does make this one a little more interesting

As an aside, the transfer status just hit 'here we go' - https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1666473832796901376?s=46&t=ivJm_jlUZMB50BTDgxktcg

[Ultra & Proud]

Given that Messi once threatened to retire from the Argentine national team rather than play again for Martino, this one is a little surprising if true. They also worked together at Barcelona and Messi apparently does not like him.
This is true but after looking at Neville doing Neville things before getting sacked, I'm sure Tata is looking a lot better than some MLS alternatives.

Let Messi watch a Bob match to see how MLS legends do it.

[Mr. Inbetween]

As unscrupulous as FRomano may be, the interesting thing about some of the recent tweets about Messi, even from the original source yesterday, is the mentions include that 'Messi will play in MLS next season'. Maybe it's just that some of these so called 'Transfer Specialists' are forgetting MLS is actually 'in-season' or, is it that something else is also happening... a fall Barca stint?

[Ultra & Proud]

As unscrupulous as FRomano may be, the interesting thing about some of the recent tweets about Messi, even from the original source yesterday, is the mentions include that 'Messi will play in MLS next season'. Maybe it's just that some of these so called 'Transfer Specialists' are forgetting MLS is actually 'in-season' or, is it that something else is also happening... a fall Barca stint?
They don't think about us being in season. They announce things this way often.

[ag futbol]

Normally yes but I watch a lot of matches of teams and leagues that I don't care about and when I watch random MLS matches during the week I see a lot of really poor calls. Or missed ones. More than I see in other random leagues I watch except for maybe the Saudi league.
The inconsistency here is wild. One guy thinks he’s reffing the SPL, the next guy thinks he’s reffing La Liga. And then you throw in guys like Geiger or Kevin Stott, who live in their own heads and really shouldn’t be officials at all… it’s a mess.

[OgtheDim]

The inconsistency here is wild. One guy thinks he’s reffing the SPL, the next guy thinks he’s reffing La Liga. And then you throw in guys like Geiger or Kevin Stott, who live in their own heads and really shouldn’t be officials at all… it’s a mess.

I just can't get over a guy giving a two handed push in the back & a ref looking at it from the angle where he can see the arms extended saying "got ball" - PRO guys can't deal with the speed.

[spe18]

You should see the resale prices for the places that miami is playing in late july onwards!

And also check out the before and after games too. Ticketmaster is handy in this regard!

[Mr. Inbetween]

They won't do anything about the shit refs but I think they'll change roster rules to accomodate him and that will affect all the teams.

FWIW, posted by jloome, in the 2023 TFC/MLS General Banter Thread yesterday; a start?


...

https://proreferees.com/2023/06/06/sandro-ricci-joins-pro-as-manager-of-senior-referees/

Looks like we're getting some more experience at the top of PRO.

[ag futbol]

I just can't get over a guy giving a two handed push in the back & a ref looking at it from the angle where he can see the arms extended saying "got ball" - PRO guys can't deal with the speed.
The level of play in this league has accelerated so much over the past decade. This group of officials as a whole was never going to be able to keep up. They need to cut the dead weight.

And I don’t know what Allan Kelly is doing but if this is the end product of his leadership he should step down.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/GraemeBailey/status/1666487606668820480?s=20

[Mr. Inbetween]

Given that Messi once threatened to retire from the Argentine national team rather than play again for Martino, this one is a little surprising if true. They also worked together at Barcelona and Messi apparently does not like him.

Some of that reporting is somewhat suspect. Like the 'hate' nonsense between Lollo and Fede. Messi and Tata may have had issues over the courses of their relationship, ups and downs, but IIRC, Messi stood up for him at Barca; to their board and the Blaugrana. Besides, realistically, presented with the option, would you want a Neville or a Bradley mistering you and your club over a Tata? I think not.

[MikeForbes]

How can Michael Bradley be the Sergio Busquets of MLS if Sergio Busquets himself is in MLS?

[Mr. Inbetween]

How can Michael Bradley be the Sergio Busquets of MLS if Sergio Busquets himself is in MLS?

https://memes.memedrop.io/production/P0L52k4g524y/292w_s.jpg and https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/EeQvRLEXsAA-_BZ.jpg

[CorrwgBach]

https://twitter.com/GraemeBailey/status/1666487606668820480?s=20

If the World Cup was not in the winter, Manning would have seen Argentinians celebrating in the streets and we would have signed Messi.

[SenorDingDong]

If the World Cup was not in the winter, Manning would have seen Argentinians celebrating in the streets and we would have signed Messi.

Nah, Miami was always a better choice for latin / spanish players.

[jloome]

Some of that reporting is somewhat suspect. Like the 'hate' nonsense between Lollo and Fede. Messi and Tata may have had issues over the courses of their relationship, ups and downs, but IIRC, Messi stood up for him at Barca; to their board and the Blaugrana. Besides, realistically, presented with the option, would you want a Neville or a Bradley mistering you and your club over a Tata? I think not.

I recall this differently? Didn’t Martino resign despite the board offering him another deal? As I remember the board eventually asked him to stay, but he resigned on principle because he promised the fans the title and they blew it on the last day.

[jloome]

The bulk of the Footy Prime crew seem to think he’ll get 20-30 in a full season. Forrest says 10-12 and that MLS is underestimated. Also seemed disappointed we’re still “100%” a retirement league.

”And in two years he won’t be scoring any. I don’t know why people think he can play forever.”

Points out Higuain scored 16 and Miami still couldn’t win, and that adapting his game by walking at the World Cup only worked because “it was Argentina, not Miami” around him.

Interesting take. I tend to think that Messi at half speed is about equivalent to Seba at full speed, given how he reads the game. But he’s right about the decline at that age being rapid and unpredictable.

[SenorDingDong]

The bulk of the Footy Prime crew seem to think he’ll get 20-30 in a full season. Forrest says 10-12 and that MLS is underestimated. Also seemed disappointed we’re still “100%” a retirement league.

”And in two years he won’t be scoring any. I don’t know why people think he can play forever.”

Points out Higuain scored 16 and Miami still couldn’t win, and that adapting his game by walking at the World Cup only worked because “it was Argentina, not Miami” around him.

Interesting take. I tend to think that Messi at half speed is about equivalent to Seba at full speed, given how he reads the game. But he’s right about the decline at that age being rapid and unpredictable.

I would go more around 10-15 goals.. I don't think he gets 20-30. He plays one touch footy like Insigne so he will need to adjust to players not being in good spots / making runs.

Now he is obviously better then Insigne but he has lost a lot of his pace (which is huge in MLS).

Really depends on who Miami puts around him.

[Canary10]

Can't wait for TFC to take on Miami on February 21 2024. Hope the weather is good! 🤞

[Mr. Inbetween]

I recall this differently? Didn’t Martino resign despite the board offering him another deal? As I remember the board eventually asked him to stay, but he resigned on principle because he promised the fans the title and they blew it on the last day.

Maybe. You might be right. There is lots of static out there. My memory is faulty. Last week, after the first rumours of Tata being an option for MLS/IMCF, I refreshed and read he was upset at his stint at Barca because of a peculiar sentiment, 'my contribution as coach was limited to the management of the team'. I further read and learned this was perhaps in connection to off-field issues of the time, like Neymar or the tragic death of Tito Vilanova. He also supposedly received some harsh press criticism even though he was winning matches but some of the metrics, like possession, were poor. I mean, as Wiki reminds, he did not lose a match in his first 16 and went unbeaten until his 22nd. However as you point out, he did concede the league title on the last day to their bitter rivals and did not win enough major trophies.

[SenorDingDong]

Can't wait for TFC to take on Miami on February 21 2024. Hope the weather is good! 爛

I hope its a blizzard! Messi needs full the MLS experience.

[Canary10]

I hope its a blizzard! Messi needs full the MLS experience.

I didn't say what I meant by good, lol!

[Mr. Inbetween]

Move over Becks and Seba, cannot wait to see Monsieur Free Kick D'Or and the 'Messi Slide' in action in MLS... :)

https://twitter.com/thefootyarena/status/1663464922926153728

[Richard]

Wait so is Messi going on a 7 month holiday, or is he joining Barca for half a season?

[FootBallAZ]

Wait so is Messi going on a 7 month holiday, or is he joining Barca for half a season?


sounds like he isnt playing in MLS this season-I assume he will do a farewell tour in barca for 2023.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I didn't say what I meant by good, lol!

Footballers not as unaccustomed to that snow condition as you may think? :)

https://www.facebook.com/OhMyGoal.KeliNetwork/videos/zlatan-messi-marquinhos-football-stars-in-the-snow/244322853754157/

[JoesphNdo]

sounds like he isnt playing in MLS this season-I assume he will do a farewell tour in barca for 2023.

Is this confirmed at all? Financially and from any business perspective, I don't think this would make any sense for MLS. I've a real hard time believing it

[Mr. Inbetween]

This deleted tweet by Apple TV has big "Welcome Diego Forlan" vibes...

Always, still, a possibility. Name escapes me, but wasn't there a player, as a cautionary tale, maybe in Europe, recently, that even took the transfer medical, but yet had not signed the contract and then went with another team?

[SenorDingDong]

sounds like he isnt playing in MLS this season-I assume he will do a farewell tour in barca for 2023.

That seems silly to me. Why would Barca want him for half a season?

[MikeForbes]

The man himself has confirmed it.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666521109972262938?s=20

[Mr. Inbetween]

Is this confirmed at all? Financially and from any business perspective, I don't think this would make any sense for MLS. I've a real hard time believing it

U&P may have helped clarify this earlier; I am still not sure. However, since some reports state 'next season', he suggests it is a common reference or oversight from the Euro-centric perspective to this July/August since some journos overlook the fact that MLS is already 'in season'.

[Mr. Inbetween]

The man himself has confirmed it...

Meh, not the man, maybe 'the faker of news' himself.

[FiveThreeTwo]

well, I know the skeptics in all of us couldn't possibly fathom this move because it exceeds the paradigms of how most folks view money, business and success.

Its been reported a couple places i've read now that Messi turned down 1.5B over 2/3 years from the saudis to come to miami, and that they even reduced the term to 2 years to try and to sweeten the deal. Think about that. We're into territory at least in the sporting world where one can no longer simply apply logical conclusions based on their own life experiences. Its paradigm busting that someone would value 2 years of their quality of life with family, friends and a nice location over 1.5 Billion dollars. Can't think of many people on the planet with that type of discipline- rich and successful or not.

Crazy. No longer can we assume the most logical things are the most conclusive lol.

Just adding - I can appreciate he's a mega family man and I guess in the current presser he's basically said the past 2 years were unenjoyable and terrible with PSG in the sense he couldn't be around his family and kids growing up n' watching them go to school for example. If going to saudi for 3 more years basically stripped him from being able to watch his kids grow up... I can definitely respect that at the highest level. Unlimited levels of money for your family and friends means nothing if you aren't around to able to be in your kids lives and play the child/parent dynamic; and your family suffers cause you aren't there to experience all the good moments of their childhood. Fair play to him... even if he hadn't chose MLS and it was some other smaller league.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
And this is why he, Messi doing Messi things, is... The GOAT.

[Mr. Inbetween]

According to media personality- insider Mike Ryan (Ruiz), IMCF is busy trying to clear more space for other Messi 'pals' besides Busquets.

[ag futbol]

According to media personality- insider Mike Ryan (Ruiz), IMCF is busy trying to clear more space for other Messi 'pals' besides Busquets.
This is how you get deals for good players. Forced seller, viewpoint that thinks about the preferences of a new coach / incoming star while ignoring what is given away.

Maybe they’ll decide to throw Campana in the garbage and we can pounce.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Wonder what the odds are on if he plays or appears at the MLS AllStar Match on 19JUL23?

[Mr. Inbetween]

This is how you get deals for good players. Forced seller, viewpoint that thinks about the preferences of a new coach / incoming star while ignoring what is given away.

Maybe they’ll decide to throw Campana in the garbage and we can pounce.

I suspect, if he is truly to be involved, they will give Tata the input respect expected and required. Otherwise welcome to TFC Cubed!

[FiveThreeTwo]

I expect suarez to join him on a sub TAM deal and busquets. Dunno who else.

If inter miami were smart they'd aim to be top of the pile now for all these argentian players looking to move that aren't quite ready for EU yet... and get themselves an Almada or two. Like any of those guys looking to leave argentina to continue to grow are gonna turn down an opportunity to be team mates with one of their heroes in Messi, for lets say a competing mls or ligamx club lol.

Also interested now what this means for the league. Everyone is saying this doesn't cast implications that there's gonna be changes to the salary cap/roster rules but with Apple/Adidas and MLS landing this deal and looking to culminate it all to a 2026 WC... Are they really gonna bottleneck clubs by keeping salary caps locked down through TAM/GAM/SPAM/HAM or is it time to keep the DPs and opt for a general team wide salary cap?

Like if you are investing most likely 50M in salary for a guy plus profit sharing in apple/adidas and most likely ownership stake in IMFC afterwards... how do you not if you are Apple and Garber look to remove as many barriers as possible for Miami and other clubs... so that the mass influx of subscriptions/stakeholders they are about to get are satisified with the overall player quality and experience and subscription product. Garber and Apple will want to see this club challenging for MLS cups, Champions League and Leagues Cup hardware, and not with subpar quality of players. Hard not to think other things are coming in soon around roster rules.

[Gringo Starr]

I wonder if this gets MLSE to spend on a third DP

[Mr. Inbetween]

Campana would seem unlikely; a stretch-goal :) . Then again, their lead, Mabika, is sure shining like gold for us. Given the events of today, 1.2 to 1.5 Billon, tax 'fooken' free!?!?!?, left on the table or sent back to the kitchen like an under-cooked meal, anything must be possible. Realistically, given this earthquake, and if MLS teams are indeed subsidizing some to most of this outlay by getting at least less of their Apple- MLS deal cut, maybe new acquisition/salary cap rules and regulations are also in play and may be introduced to mitigate any perceived unfairness to and by the other league clubs in this matter.

EDIT: Better stated above by 5-3-2!

[Ultra & Proud]

Hard not to think other things are coming in soon around roster rules.

I expect big, big changes to MLS roster mechanisms in the off season. A few smaller ones this summer.

I just hope they give a bit more money to spread around to the lower paid players for depth. Forget about all the TAM and above. League needs money to invest in quality depth on the bench. The bench end of the 18 man squad should all be on Diomande type money (but actually be able to play at some point). Give Bob & Bill more money to waste on garbage already!

[Yuushalinsky]

I expect big, big changes to MLS roster mechanisms in the off season. A few smaller ones this summer.

I just hope they give a bit more money to spread around to the lower paid players for depth. Forget about all the TAM and above. League needs money to invest in quality depth on the bench. The bench end of the 18 man squad should all be on Diomande type money (but actually be able to play at some point). Give Bob & Bill more money to waste on garbage already!

Would we be in this mess if we had to accommodate for ridiculous rules? Part of me wonders. Part of me agrees.

[OgtheDim]

There is a CBA valid until the end of 2024

Nothing is going to change drastically until then.

[ag futbol]

There is a CBA valid until the end of 2024

Nothing is going to change drastically until then.
It does allow for unilateral relaxations though. So if the clubs agree to loosen the purse strings it does not require player consent.

[ensco]

According to media personality- insider Mike Ryan (Ruiz), IMCF is busy trying to clear more space for other Messi 'pals' besides Busquets.

Vazquez must be on his way to Miami. I would be happy for him if that happened. He and Leo are close.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Well - my big opinion aged well!

Just in case I was wrong about this… I bought on stubhub 4 tickets to the TFC game in Miami in September for $30 each, a few days ago. So I have that to salve my wounded ego.

@#$%&! :). A capitalist lesson on how to salve, heal and stroke a wounded ego all in the same moment...

My math is rusty, is that...

https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1666538601641832455

[Mr. Inbetween]

Vazquez must be on his way to Miami. I would be happy for him if that happened. He and Leo are close.

I would be surprised if he did not at least talk to people like Victor and Gonzalo about this move.

[JoesphNdo]

The rumoured pals are Busquets, Jordi Alba and Di Maria. Which I'd love, because that Miami team will not do well in MLS. Messi cannot carry a team that old in a league with this amount of travel. They'll be better than they are now, no doubt, but not the dominant force in the east by any means if that's where all their roster spend goes

[OgtheDim]

Come on...he's Beckham....of course he is going to overwhelm MLS


Come on...he's Kaka

Come on... he's Pirlo

Come on ....he's Insigne


........



Lets see but he won't be as good as he was in November...if for nothing else he hasn't had a week off since July of last year.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Kamal Miller likely playing alongside Busquets and Messi; how does that look on your CV?

[OgtheDim]

From the journo who really broke this as happening a few weeks ago


https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/inter-miami/article276188626.html


Details very good here

e.g. a stake in Miami but not in a new team.

[Mr. Inbetween]

From the journo who really broke this as happening a few weeks ago...

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/inter-miami/article276188626.html

Details very good here... e.g. a stake in Miami but not in a new team.

Paywalled? The journo's name? Gist of the details?

I know about a year ago, Sam May reported- 17MAY22 the offer was about a 35% stake. I do not believe it got major traction; I assumed he was generally ignored. I think Michelle Kaufman at the MH may have done some follow-up reporting. I suspect some of the issue was who would be/was giving up their shares? The dilemma being an IMCF valuation would obviously increase with the addition of Messi the player but any potential gain/growth would be off-set with the loss or sale of one's shares. According to some of the information on the internet, IMCF shares were divided as following: the Mas Brothers @ 37.5%, Marcelo Claure @ 37.5 %, Masayoshi Son @ 15% and David Beckham @ 10%. In 2021 there were reports both Claure and Son wanted to sell their shares, which apparently happened, being then subsequently sold to the Mases' and Beckham with Ares management as a preferred equity investor. I guess the equity investor will now get their payday. Maybe it ends up being Mases' with 50%, Messi with 35% and Beckham with 15%?

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW, a great vacay city to visit. Maybe some pleasure mixed with business? Hmmm, what else is in NYC, at 420, 5th Ave, Fl 7?

https://twitter.com/GSpanishFN/status/1666847689823203333

[Mr. Inbetween]

OMG! There goes that neighbourhood? I mean, throw a dart at 'Eastern Europe' and you are bound to get a decent 'baller. Do some homework, and I believe you can get budget gems.

https://twitter.com/knaas/status/1667149473817014273

[Mr. Inbetween]

OMG! There goes that neighbourhood? I mean, throw a dart at 'Eastern Europe', some of their leagues, and you are bound to get a decent 'baller. Do some homework, and I believe you can get budget gems.

https://twitter.com/knaas/status/1667149473817014273

[Canary10]

OMG! There goes that neighbourhood? I mean, throw a dart at 'Eastern Europe', some of their leagues, and you are bound to get a decent 'baller. Do some homework, and I believe you can get budget gems.

https://twitter.com/knaas/status/1667149473817014273

Bez really knows how to steal Miami’s thunder.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Slow, steady, not necessarily flashy. Reminds me of a duck. All calm and graceful, gliding, above the waterline. Yet, paddling as fook underneath, always trying to make his team more competitive; better.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Well...

https://y.yarn.co/b221cde2-f43b-48e2-bac9-da3a97f482ba_text.gif

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1667215727525257216

[EL DUQUE'----']

Do not ever talk about insigne or Bernadeschi unless you played the game...jlommm please tell me how you're so connected...iddiot..you guys know nothing...this is a fraud..ogm..you suck

[Mr. Inbetween]

Hacked? This is a bit left field? A little early in the evening for this? Everything ok? Commenting, rationally and respectfully is allowed. Maybe consider giving it a try? Encourage you to let go of the animosity. Challenge their points; no need to make it personal if you disagree with their views. IIUC, jloome has a journalistic/media background and OtD is a universal individual. Both know and contribute enough to be very well respected in this community.

[OgtheDim]

Jozy bought out twice in 18 months


https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/1669164295635243008

Surely we can't be on the books now for anymore of that...

[JoesphNdo]

Is Jozys agent the GOAT? Its absolutely incredible what he has secured for his client long long long after he was a completely spent force

Manning and vanney going to start a bidding war on this one?

[OgtheDim]

And...no...we do not want him taking up a roster space and minimum cap...

[ag futbol]

If I wanted an oft injured under performing striker, I’d just turn to one of the other ones we have on the roster.

[Richard]

Yeah we've already got our dollar store knockoff of Jozy named Adama Diomande.

[ensco]

i would bet Jozy is going to be signed as a cheap depth striker somewhere in MLS.

But probably better if it were elsewhere. He would be a distraction here, his presence would be huge relative to his likely contribution.

[Ultra & Proud]

i would bet Jozy is going to be signed as a cheap depth striker somewhere in MLS.

I'll be shocked if Vanney doesn't pick him up at LA to come off the bench after Chicharito went down for the season. Joveljic can't play 90 so they'll need somebody and you know Vanney loves him some 2017 nostalgia.

[ensco]

I'll be shocked if Vanney doesn't pick him up at LA to come off the bench after Chicharito went down for the season. Joveljic can't play 90 so they'll need somebody and you know Vanney loves him some 2017 nostalgia.

Dunno. Jozy also made Vanney's life difficult the last couple of years. But I see your point.

I think he winds up at SKC or some such. Not a big opinion.

[Ultra & Proud]

Dunno. Jozy also made Vanney's life difficult the last couple of years. But I see your point.


There is big desperation there now so I wouldn't be surprised. Really we should be trying to hock Akinola there for whatever we can get. We need to dump dead weight before moving on to 2024.

[los sonadores]

There is big desperation there now so I wouldn't be surprised. Really we should be trying to hock Akinola there for whatever we can get. We need to dump dead weight before moving on to 2024.

He’s been so ineffective, Akinoka, but given Vanney was the manager who converted him to striker maybe that isn’t far fetched.

[ag futbol]

Scott Arfield just signed with Charlotte. Wonder if we ever showed interest? Feels like a low-TAM level AM. He does defend a bit but not much.

[los sonadores]

That’s an interesting one, not much expected. I’m probably in the minority but I think I’d rather we build intelligently and with balance with guys like this, Hoilett, etc. Canadian national team players to play at the National grounds. Of course, no doubt many TFC goers are not Nats supporters but on the other hand having Italian Nats supporters is not really sustainable unless we keep well known Italians on the roster always. Now, yeah, unless MLS aligns with the international calendar having national team players is not a good idea. Crazy thing for a league though to discourage those kind of signings.

It doesn’t seem Arfield was offered an extension at Rangers and si his options in Scotland must have been limited. This might be a below TAM signing. Not sure that he’s a 90 min player any more but off the bench he’s been really good with Rangers.

[ag futbol]

That’s an interesting one, not much expected. I’m probably in the minority but I think I’d rather we build intelligently and with balance with guys like this, Hoilett, etc. Canadian national team players to play at the National grounds. Of course, no doubt many TFC goers are not Nats supporters but on the other hand having Italian Nats supporters is not really sustainable unless we keep well known Italians on the roster always. Now, yeah, unless MLS aligns with the international calendar having national team players is not a good idea. Crazy thing for a league though to discourage those kind of signings.

I think we're already sort of clearing that bar, no? To me, it's important to have a few Canadians on the roster who play meaningful roles but beyond that I think any acquisitions should be about fit.

The big opportunity to increase can-con is fixing the academy. IMO we need to stop promoting guys who are raw with supposedly high ceilings. Instead, we need to make sure guys who hit the first team are ready to play above all else. If they need further development the academy or TFC2 can't offer, send them out on loan. We should not be watching someone like Nelson play erratically and then selling him 2 years later. In no way was that exercise worth it.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Any links/ideas about which MLS club?

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1670489047771361281

[ensco]

^ I doubt it's Canada.

We disrespected them, that just wouldn’t play well at home. They don’t forget things like that.

[leedsandTFC]

probably the revs, they just let altidore go so have an open forward spot.

[OgtheDim]

That looks like a Fire move...

[OgtheDim]

So I'm not on here for a day & nobody is talking about Busquets to Miami as a DP?

[ensco]

So I'm not on here for a day & nobody is talking about Busquets to Miami as a DP?

Mostly because it seems kind of old news.

This might be the first DM as a DP since JDG.

[ag futbol]

Mostly because it seems kind of old news.

This might be the first DM as a DP since JDG.
I think Joao Paolo qualifies as a DM. He’s just very, very good at distributing the ball from deep lying positions so it doesn’t feel like you just paid big money just for a battering ram.

[JoesphNdo]

Think even Matias Laba was technically a DP at least for the 5 minutes he was with us, too, right?

[jloome]

Mostly because it seems kind of old news.

This might be the first DM as a DP since JDG.

They already have a DP DM, Gregore, the guy who got injured earlier this year.

They already have three DPs and a young DP. Major changes coming in the window, either them selling or the rules changing.

As things stand, I believe they'll have to release or trade both Gregore and Pizarro, if they want to keep Martinez. Getting rid of Campana only opens a u22 slot.

Assuming the injury is easily rehabbed, they'd be giving up one of the best midfielders in the league for a 34-year-old two way player? Hard to see that being sensible.

I believe Gregore would also have to accept a buyout; under FIFA regs you can't buy out an injured player against their wishes.

Seems a bit of a mess. If they really want to do that, they might have to move Pizarro and Martinez.

[ag futbol]

If I were TFC, I would be all over Campana. My only concern is he’s not far enough into his career yet to be really assertive demanding the ball from the other high paid guys.

We need someone at striker who is going to let our guys know there is shit to pay if they don’t get service. Our strikers are bad but our other players are far too reluctant to give them opportunities.

[jloome]

If I were TFC, I would be all over Campana. My only concern is he’s not far enough into his career yet to be really assertive demanding the ball from the other high paid guys.

We need someone at striker who is going to let our guys know there is shit to pay if they don’t get service. Our strikers are bad but our other players are far too reluctant to give them opportunities.

The problem is he doesn't help them clear any spaces, so there's no point moving him. He can only qualify as a young DP, which isn't useable for anyone over 23.

[Ultra & Proud]

The problem is he doesn't help them clear any spaces, so there's no point moving him. He can only qualify as a young DP, which isn't useable for anyone over 23.
But they seem to want him out so I assume that means some Suarez guy is joining the South Beach reunion tour.

[jloome]

But they seem to want him out so I assume that means some Suarez guy is joining the South Beach reunion tour.

I'm not seeing that anywhere, that they want him out. They just signed him to a permanent deal five months ago.

Even if they did Suarez is past it. I find it highly unlikely they'd sign him. He's 36 and has two goals this year. He's certainly not getting DP money.

Campana is a class finisher, he just needs service. Same with Martinez, who has lost step but can still finish pretty clinically.

They'll buy out Gregore and if they can't trade Pizarro will buy him out, too, if Busquets is coming.

Or Busquets will accept some weird off-the-books endorsement cookery, ala Insigne here, and be there on TAM or less.

[ag futbol]

The problem is he doesn't help them clear any spaces, so there's no point moving him. He can only qualify as a young DP, which isn't useable for anyone over 23.
I think the whole team is a remake at this point. They have a shocking lack of foresight and are blinded by enthusiasm for building Messi + friends (in fairness who wouldn’t?)

I would be circling waiting for them to throw good assets in the garbage for pennies on the dollar.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm not seeing that anywhere, that they want him out. They just signed him to a permanent deal five months ago.

Even if they did Suarez is past it. I find it highly unlikely they'd sign him. He's 36 and has two goals this year. He's certainly not getting DP money.

Campana is a class finisher, he just needs service. Same with Martinez, who has lost step but can still finish pretty clinically.

They'll buy out Gregore and if they can't trade Pizarro will buy him out, too, if Busquets is coming.

Or Busquets will accept some weird off-the-books endorsement cookery, ala Insigne here, and be there on TAM or less.
Busquets widely rumored to be on DP money. Many reports on that one.

Suarez is past it but he is Messi's pal and that's what this is all about. He's running the show and he wants to enjoy himself apparently with his buddies. Suarez may not be a DP but Josef is and how many CFs do they really need? Messi clearly isn't there to work with the youth and build. He wants an old guy team of his pals to play with and he probably assumes their quality will do well in MLS.

Also they have one buyout and that's supposed to go to Pizarro. Gregore might be able to be bought down to TAM but they should be pretty tight on that with their cheating penalty and all these new players but who knows?

Don't forget that you're talking about the same management team that dumped Carranza, Morgan, and even Mabika for basically nothing when they've been eastern conference bottom feeders and needed help. Nothing in their make up points to them doing anything smart here. They are basically us but aiming older and spending even more.

[jloome]

Busquets widely rumored to be on DP money. Many reports on that one.

Suarez is past it but he is Messi's pal and that's what this is all about. He's running the show and he wants to enjoy himself apparently with his buddies. Suarez may not be a DP but Josef is and how many CFs do they really need? Messi clearly isn't there to work with the youth and build. He wants an old guy team of his pals to play with and he probably assumes their quality will do well in MLS.

Also they have one buyout and that's supposed to go to Pizarro. Gregore might be able to be bought down to TAM but they should be pretty tight on that with their cheating penalty and all these new players but who knows?

Don't forget that you're talking about the same management team that dumped Carranza, Morgan, and even Mabika for basically nothing when they've been eastern conference bottom feeders and needed help. Nothing in their make up points to them doing anything smart here. They are basically us but aiming older and spending even more.


They either take Busquets and Suarez on non-DP salaries or they're kind of hosed... or the league has to change its rules.

Because with only one buyout allowed, they only have one DP spot available. That would be Pizarro, as he's the only one without ongoing value to them.

If Busquets and Suarez were to go there -- I really don't think Suarez has any realism to it at all, but... -- then they have to go under TAM or lower. The league's facing a real problem with this; as you noted, they've already fine Miami and suspended a senior corporate officer for cooking the books. They can hardly allow them to do it for a 34-year-old and a 36-year-old, neither of whom is Lionel Messi.

Who knows, maybe they'll announce mid-season league-wide changes. But I wouldn't bank on it.

If either comes, it'll be Busquets, as a 36-year-old Suarez is of little use or value to them, and it'll be as a TAM player.

They're not going to just ignore the rules to the detriment of 28 other investment groups, not for something that is not required to get Messi here. He's already getting $60M a year, plus a chunk of Miami's ownership, plus a chunk of their revenue during his playing years, a deal that could easily be worth more than a billion dollars.

He's not going to give them ultimatums about who he plays with, so it's probably a non-starter that either will be a DP. The exception to this might be if they can get good enough trade value for Josef Martinez that someone else will pick up his salary. But who wants him at his wage and age?

[Mr. Inbetween]

I'll share and add my confusion to this discussion with this latest...

https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1671238827627757573

https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/1671243606215081984

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW, report of rumour that SuperMario is being shopped to MLS adjacent- LIGAMX! If accurate, I would expect he is also being shopped to MLS. Perhaps we see him play in Leagues Cup?

'They are offering Balotelli to Mexican football. Would you bring him?'...

https://twitter.com/Alonso_Cabral/status/1671733443527602177