TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[Oldtimer]

For discussion of trades, rumours, and roster construction.

[Mr. Inbetween]

BTW, I just do not think Mamah is going anywhere in the summer window... @23sec...


I mean, Jesus was in the initial reveal and he got traded like a week later. This is just promotional material and Richie is a Canadian. Only makes sense to have him there.

My assertion was more from Richie's emotional expressions- the body language- perspective. However, your counter is more than fair and valid; I even suspect right. I mean they parade JJ out... making him partake in a WTF? skit/bit of song and dance and literally shortly after 'bye-bye' him; yesh and ouch!

BTW, seems Victor can get down; gots the rhythm! :)

https://twitter.com/PaiEstimator/status/1627279753626497024

[Mr. Inbetween]

For the love of Lothar Matthaus... what we need is... and I won't stop stomping... the number of the day... a...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=4-usguSrIpM

[Smokecell]

Kadin Chung has had his contract terminated by mutual consent. I assume he occupied a supplemental roster spot?

[jloome]

Kadin Chung has had his contract terminated by mutual consent. I assume he occupied a supplemental roster spot?

Seems clear he's not going to make it with the first team. Ah well, worth a shot.

[portu]

Early hot takes:

Rosted on TAM is going to look dumb as hell
The teams ends up moving to a two man midfield because Bradley can’t keep up
Insigne ends up playing in a Seba role
BB out
Panic moves galore before the first window closes- depth necessary
Hedges is going to be the signing of the MLS off-season
Team makes the conference final

[OgtheDim]

Rosted looked WAY better then McNaughton et al last year.....but then I kinda liked our Polish CB that year so what do I know.

Heck, SKC CB did a "pass back to a forward from the other team" move last night and that was the second one of the weekend.


(I know, hot takes)

[Ultra & Proud]

Rosted looked WAY better then McNaughton et al last year

I think Rosted will be okay. I am always reluctant to dump on new players to MLS until they get a run of matches under their belts.

Also this year it felt like, and now looks like, MLS teams kind of did a rush job on preseason. Lots of matches this past weekend looked like preseason in terms of level of play. Some atrocious errors, terrible finishing, arrant passes, and a general sense of confusion over what to do & where to be (except Philly who are basically the same team as last year). Expecting more chaos this weekend.

[DinamoTFC]

Early hot takes:

Rosted on TAM is going to look dumb as hell
The teams ends up moving to a two man midfield because Bradley can’t keep up
Insigne ends up playing in a Seba role
BB out
Panic moves galore before the first window closes- depth necessary
Hedges is going to be the signing of the MLS off-season
Team makes the conference final

Honestly not too unrealistic. Many points are plausible both good and bad.
Hedges is class you can see it immediately.
Rosted didnt look good but hopefully a few more games to adapt will change that.
Two man midfield or pivot likely.
Insinge in Seba role becasue of movement and quickness in theory looks good.

[SenorDingDong]

I think Rosted will be okay. I am always reluctant to dump on new players to MLS until they get a run of matches under their belts.

Also this year it felt like, and now looks like, MLS teams kind of did a rush job on preseason. Lots of matches this past weekend looked like preseason in terms of level of play. Some atrocious errors, terrible finishing, arrant passes, and a general sense of confusion over what to do & where to be (except Philly who are basically the same team as last year). Expecting more chaos this weekend.

Defensively I actually thought we looked quite well for vast majority of the match. Just last 10 min was chaos. But yea, guys like Rosted and Petretta are new league, new country, new everything. Takes time.

[DinamoTFC]

My assertion was more from Richie's emotional expressions- the body language- perspective. However, your counter is more than fair and valid; I even suspect right. I mean they parade JJ out... making him partake in a WTF? skit/bit of song and dance and literally shortly after 'bye-bye' him; yesh and ouch!

BTW, seems Victor can get down; gots the rhythm! :)

https://twitter.com/PaiEstimator/status/1627279753626497024

Honestly I had the feeling Jimenez was going to mesh so well with the Italians this season after proper preseason and with Vazquez to support. I like them having fun in the skit so much that its giving me unease in my stomach that we made the wrong decision to ship out Jimenez like we did with Shaff.

[DinamoTFC]

Defensively I actually thought we looked quite well for vast majority of the match. Just last 10 min was chaos. But yea, guys like Rosted and Petretta are new league, new country, new everything. Takes time.

The backline played well for most part. The team as a whole played defence horrendously IMO.

[R.O.]

https://twitter.com/canplnews/status/1630665790163656733?s=20

[OgtheDim]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/sounders-look-like-their-old-selves-cincinnati-give-off-early-shield-vibes-more-


Two videos from Doyle lay bare our midfield's issues - ok both goals against so we are not seeing when things go right but the slowness of everybody in the midfield is just BAD. And Oso on the end goal was just BAD in covering his man.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Latest update...

https://twitter.com/_ElliottJackson/status/1630915315948306436

[jloome]

Latest update...

https://twitter.com/_ElliottJackson/status/1630915315948306436

No suggestion we're still in the running, although maybe Insigne getting injured might change that. He's not really a wide player.

[rydermike]

We may not even be able to acquire him. After we traded an international slot with Jimenez, we have 6 slots left with six internationals - Insigne, Bernadeschi, Petretta, Rosted, Diomande, and Vázquez.

We will have to acquire another spot, unless Vázquez is eligible for one of the exempt slots. Even with that, I wonder if we even have any GAM/TAM left since we have so many TAM players.

Edit: Although if Insigne is out long-term, maybe it opens up a slot. I think when Gallardo got injured we went over the international slot to replace him and then never re-activated him and sent him to TFC2 because we had no slots.

[buddies]

Case dismissed ...

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/lewis-obrien-reacts-nottingham-forest-8204690

[OgtheDim]

So Luke Singh loaned to Ottawa....

[Gringo Starr]

Apparently the LI injury isn’t too bad:

TORONTO — The injury news on Toronto FC star Lorenzo Insigne is positive.
Insigne, who hobbled off the pitch in last weekend's season-opening loss at D.C. United, trained briefly Friday and is listed as questionable for Saturday's match at Atlanta United.
Coach Bob Bradley says it doesn't seem like the lower body injury will keep him out long

[Gringo Starr]

I especially like that he trained Friday when it’s only thursday

[Red CB Toronto]

So Luke Singh loaned to Ottawa....

Not surprising at all, he was never really going to get much action here. It took a bit of work last year to get him a CPL loan after Pacific agreed to a loan and then decided against it. In the end he went to the league run Edmonton FC who was taking as many loans as possible to keep payroll down.

[ensco]

I especially like that he trained Friday when it’s only thursday

Tomorrow he is going back in time to last Saturday, and avoiding the injury. We are all set.

[spe18]

I especially like that he trained Friday when it’s only thursday

I guess for some people (myself not being one of them) Thursdays are the new Fridays lol.

[OgtheDim]

I especially like that he trained Friday when it’s only thursday


Insigne's working hybrid....

[TFC/Everton]

Anyone else get the sense the team won't be making any additions until summer? Feels like this is the team, come hell or high water.

[Mr. Inbetween]

No suggestion we're still in the running, although maybe Insigne getting injured might change that. He's not really a wide player.

Yes. Although MLS may be one of only a few options. Perhaps an interesting read for some... 'beyond the pitch, inside footy operations, geeks'... among us.

https://twitter.com/readrovers/status/1631361026594594822

[Mr. Inbetween]

Interesting... due diligences... one with a Canadian connect...

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1631474051238490113

[Ultra & Proud]

Anyone else get the sense the team won't be making any additions until summer? Feels like this is the team, come hell o high water.
I think we will but any signing(s) will be more of the MacNaughton/Chung variety than the fancy Euro or returning American variety.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Roster turnover visualization. Now with Singh, essentially 15 players have departed from the start of last year. Yesterday's presser... Raoul seems very personable. My takeaway, he expressed the sense that the team needs time to get to know one another; each others play styles.

https://twitter.com/DrewHockridge/status/1630947465598738437

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/training-sound-raoul-petretta-march-2-2023

[613reppingTFC]

^ I don't see Auro Jr listed on there and we technically declined his contract extension for 2023 back in November. Even though he didn't play for us last year either.

I would also be interested to see how many left before the start of 2022 season since Bob has taken over...

[rydermike]

^ I don't see Auro Jr listed on there and we technically declined his contract extension for 2023 back in November. Even though he didn't play for us last year either.

I would also be interested to see how many left before the start of 2022 season since Bob has taken over...

Here is our 2021 final roster. I put stars next to Laryea (since he left and returned) and Singh (loaned out twice)
https://i.postimg.cc/VkJ5tjWq/left.png

[613reppingTFC]

oh nice thanks for going through that. I was going to start doing something similar but i'm at work..ugh always gets in the way when i'm trying to look up my TFC stuff haha

edit: wow what a crazy turnover we have had in the last two seasons..well let's call it 14 months...

[Red CB Toronto]

You also have to remember for about a 2 month period (April-May) the Reds roster was even in more flux due to injury, 1-4 TFC II players were being signed to short term deals week in, week out for that period. Things were not in great shape.


Roster turnover visualization. Now with Singh, essentially 15 players have departed from the start of last year. Yesterday's presser... Raoul seems very personable. My takeaway, he expressed the sense that the team needs time to get to know one another; each others play styles.

https://twitter.com/DrewHockridge/status/1630947465598738437

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/training-sound-raoul-petretta-march-2-2023

[Mr. Inbetween]

^ I don't see Auro Jr listed on there and we technically declined his contract extension for 2023 back in November. Even though he didn't play for us last year either. I would also be interested to see how many left before the start of 2022 season since Bob has taken over...

I would say that's an oversight to be added/included.


Here is our 2021 final roster. I put stars next to Laryea (since he left and returned) and Singh (loaned out twice)...

Great follow-up and update.


...wow what a crazy turnover we have had in the last two seasons..well let's call it 14 months...

Agree, nuts! Presented in this manner, I would say an unmitigated tear-down and re-build; no?


You also have to remember for about a 2 month period (April-May) the Reds roster was even in more flux due to injury, 1-4 TFC II players were being signed to short term deals week in, week out for that period. Things were not in great shape.

Even more in-flux additions to the chaos.

[Mr. Inbetween]

No suggestion we're still in the running, although maybe Insigne getting injured might change that. He's not really a wide player.

Correct, no suggestion TFC is still in the running. The latest... apparently, Steve Cooper is suggesting a 'MLS move not off the table for Lewis O’Brien'.

https://twitter.com/OwenBarnard_02/status/1632146947917201409

[Mr. Inbetween]

How things change overnight... Well, as some in the community suspected, the length of Lewis O'Brien's loan may be an issue. Does not appear a TFC destination is one of the options. Yet, should we still take him on a 'free' until just the summer window if the opportunity presents itself?

https://twitter.com/NottmForestNews/status/1632297348184375296

[Smokecell]

How things change overnight... Well, as some in the community suspected, the length of Lewis O'Brien's loan may be an issue. Does not appear a TFC destination is one of the options. Yet, should we still take him on a 'free' until just the summer window if the opportunity presents itself?

https://twitter.com/NottmForestNews/status/1632297348184375296

I don’t think so. Before the season I sat on the fence, but two games in I think it’s a flat no now. Game over game continuity is an asset in this league and I’m not sure the temporary upgrade in skill is worth the hit to squad chemistry in the long run.

[Phil744]

Go get a striker this window this is unacceptable especially after last nights performance and it's clear the mid is too slow.

Go do something now don't wait for the summer window this is starting to get frustrating and patience is thining.

We still have an open DP spot which blows my mind and all I hear is TFC is a big club....

[jloome]

Go get a striker this window this is unacceptable especially after last nights performance and it's clear the mid is too slow.

Go do something now don't wait for the summer window this is starting to get frustrating and patience is thining.

We still have an open DP spot which blows my mind and all I hear is TFC is a big club....

I can see Diomande's quality in how he moves and where he moves to and his first touch; but he's 33 and coming off a couple of dud seasons. He was so bad last night, and I think he knew it. When he came off, my first thought was "he just wants to get the hell out of there."

Just nothing went right for the guy. He was usually in the right spot to receive the first ball, but couldn't succesfully hold it up and distribute, as his passing was just terrible.

I don't think we can count on him rounding into his old shape; it was probably a bad gamble. Either way, we should be using the extra DP spot for the certainty of a clinical finisher.

[portu]

I can see Diomande's quality in how he moves and where he moves to and his first touch; but he's 33 and coming off a couple of dud seasons. He was so bad last night, and I think he knew it. When he came off, my first thought was "he just wants to get the hell out of there."

Just nothing went right for the guy. He was usually in the right spot to receive the first ball, but couldn't succesfully hold it up and distribute, as his passing was just terrible.

I don't think we can count on him rounding into his old shape; it was probably a bad gamble. Either way, we should be using the extra DP spot for the certainty of a clinical finisher.
Absolutely agree on all points.

Unfortunately, it looks like the DP won't happen because of cap space. Just tells you how bad management has been. It's honestly insane to be so cap tight that a 3rd DP is off the table.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Absolutely agree on all points.

Unfortunately, it looks like the DP won't happen because of cap space. Just tells you how bad management has been. It's honestly insane to be so cap tight that a 3rd DP is off the table.

How is it that we are still in cap hell as I believe we’ve run out all the bad contracts from the Curtis years?

[rydermike]

How is it that we are still in cap hell as I believe we’ve run out all the bad contracts from the Curtis years?
We have so many TAM players. Johnson, Petretta, Rosted, Hedges, Laryea, Bradley, Osorio, Kaye.
Our entire starting XI is either TAM or DP (only striker isnt and Akinola is a U22).

Good teams usually have a quality starter or two on like a 200k deal. We dont. We had to TAM at every spot and have no depth as a result

[Ultra & Proud]

We have so many TAM players. Johnson, Petretta, Rosted, Hedges, Laryea, Bradley, Osorio, Kaye.
Our entire starting XI is either TAM or DP (only striker isnt and Akinola is a U22).

Good teams usually have a quality starter or two on like a 200k deal. We dont. We had to TAM at every spot and have no depth as a result

The hope is that Miami signs Messi and they have to change all the roster mechanisms instead. Can't see him coming to MLS to play with ancient Martinez & Robinson. He will want his buddies with him.

[NK Toronto]

We have so many TAM players. Johnson, Petretta, Rosted, Hedges, Laryea, Bradley, Osorio, Kaye.
Our entire starting XI is either TAM or DP (only striker isnt and Akinola is a U22).

Good teams usually have a quality starter or two on like a 200k deal. We dont. We had to TAM at every spot and have no depth as a result

I'm not surprised. This is why it is so important to have your academy produce some starting quality players who you can sign on reasonable contracts.

[JoesphNdo]

I'm not surprised. This is why it is so important to have your academy produce some starting quality players who you can sign on reasonable contracts.

And, when they do, don't just give them away

[NK Toronto]

And, when they do, don't just give them away

Given the state of our midfield having Nelson on the roster might have been a good idea, especially since he would be surrounded by veteran players. Sometimes young players can have a break out year.

[TFC/Everton]

Toronto linked to Belotti... again. (Don't throw things at me! I know this is most likely agent nonsense.)

https://www.calciostyle.it/notizie/roma-il-futuro-di-belotti-tra-gol-e-soldi

[los sonadores]

Given the state of our midfield having Nelson on the roster might have been a good idea, especially since he would be surrounded by veteran players. Sometimes young players can have a break out year.

Didn’t we receive in the range of one million in GAM from that sale? Was it already spent or can we do something with it in the summer? Richie is on 1.2 million or so. Probably too much for a wing back in this league playing right back. If he leaves in the summer and we replace him with someone half his salary, that alone should pay for the salary cap hit for a DP.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Toronto linked to Belotti... again. (Don't throw things at me! I know this is most likely agent nonsense.)

https://www.calciostyle.it/notizie/roma-il-futuro-di-belotti-tra-gol-e-soldi

Appreciate you being first to broach this subject again. Aware of the intranets chatter, but been keeping my thoughts holstered on this notion. Do not think we are flogging a dead horse nor is it solely Agent positioning. IIUC, believe Belotti's contact with Roma is tied to performance markers... situation kinda like, but not matches played per se, a la Benezet. Currently, Bellotti is not a regular starter at all and when he does sub-in it's either between the 60th to 70th minutes or literally with only minutes left; even in extra-time. I do not think it is how he truly expected his experience at Roma would go; second or third option, even though it seemed obvious. Think some love (of empty words) was expressed by Mourinho to get him signed. I do not expect Belotti to be at the club after season end. Where will he go? Fiorentina? Turkiye? No to Barca; seems club is subject to a La Liga Summer Transfer Ban? Consensus may be coalescing towards TFC needs a DP striker asap. Whatever is understood to be the Capology position of the club, hopefully not as 'Oprah' fcuked as 'everyone gets a TAM', I cannot believe TFC has not blocked out/reserved the required basic charge amount for that action. IIUC, and the 2022 season rule may still be in effect... 'a Designated Player who is at least 24 years old during the League Year will carry the Maximum Salary Budget Charge ($612,500) unless the player joins his club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, in which case his budget charge will be $306,250'. Otherwise is it bye-bye Akinola and/or Diomande by intra-league trade or with the new in-season buy-out ruling change? Still does not seem to be the year of Perruzza? :(

[Bushmancan]

Toronto linked to Belotti... again. (Don't throw things at me! I know this is most likely agent nonsense.)

https://www.calciostyle.it/notizie/roma-il-futuro-di-belotti-tra-gol-e-soldi


Ok crazy idea what about playing LI in the middle of a 4-2-3-1. Bringing him more into the middle (which he has played in his career) sets him up nicely to control the central attack and midfield and rely less on MB (not saying he isn’t involved but not the central player). Have LI take control of the ball and make positive runs and passes around and in between the final defence. It would also set him up to be prepared to shot from distance and play off the strikers. That way we move Diomande/Akinola into more poachers and tactical opportunists.

Effectively we build our offence around our two most expensive players… And thereby 1) free up space for strikers, 2) be in great shape for his long shot 3) play off of Bernie and Richie on the right 4) Play off Osorio and Petretta on the left.

Both of our WBs like to run the overlaps to attack the box, set up the strikers for the cross, or pull it back into LIs feet in the middle. Having two deeper midfielders isn’t a bad thing either. Based on the first two games and the LA game, we need it. Gives us more time to thing about the DP, which if it works would make someone like Belotti a nasty target that we still need (or maybe we have) and and most importantly connects our two most lethal players.

[Phil744]

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1633096823685382152?t=T7PHB2JU22H0PG59urrLvw&s=19

[Mr. Inbetween]

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1633096823685382152?t=T7PHB2JU22H0PG59urrLvw&s=19

I believe there is value in Polish players and/or footballers in the Ekstraklasa. Thought Sebastian Kowalczyk (24) was a candidate for TFC. So Knap (21) as a U-22 singing? Sure... maybe?

[jloome]

We really are poorly built.

When I look at how competitive St. Louis is in year one, and how Nancy has Columbus reacting to his style in two weeks, my confidence in our staff flags even further.

It's like we're trying to do everything inorganically. "We have two players worth $20M a season, and another who has to play every game at 35. Base the tactics around that."

Plus, no cap space as we overpay for everyone. I just noticed yesterday that Seattle's wingback Nouhou, one of the best in the league, has just signed a new three-year-deal and expected to get a raise from his wage of ... $300K.

I think we're badly overpaying for players rather than being patient and seeking out bargains, and now we have no money left for depth or speed.

It's all just mismanagement, isn't it? They've always had more money than the church, so they don't worry about things like value for money, or balance, or cohesion.

Having watched us for two games, this roster looks: a) out of sync. They've all been playing together now for a year, bar petretta and the central defenders, and yet it looks like we can't string three passes together without being intercecpted. b) so slow in the midfield compared to other teams that we might as well be playing with six at the back.

This past week, we were good defensively. But our off-the-ball movement -- rotations, triangles, whatever the fuck you want to label it -- were so slow, or so absent, that we couldn't hook anythign up offensively. If Richie's dummy run doesn't freeze Andrew Gutman for a split second, maybe Bernie's shot is even blocked and we get nothing.

We are creating NOTHIGN from open play, back to last year. The Charlotte game, where they bunkered in fear of the newly arrived Italians, was the only time we weren't basically bailed out by an Insigne or Bernadeschi wonder goal.

That is still the case. Guys are just making the wrong calls, again and again, on crosses to the free man at the back post, on short passes to progress play -- pausing and always looking for something better, inviting a press.

Who the fuck is coaching these guys? We have the most expensive payroll in MLS, but they move together like weekend players.

Plus, they always have that stunned "I'm trying to think of too many things I need to do" look that Leeds players had under Marsch. One of the first things Tyler Adams commented on after Marsch was fired was that the new coach calmed them down by reducing the massive checklist of responsiblites MArsch was asking them to consider. Gracia simplified their game (and addressed a lack of tactical width) and they were instantly, instantly more dangerous offensively.

Bob was also Preki's mentor as a coach. He is a very defensively responsible manager, not just a "free flowing possession" guy, as frequently advertised by mlssoccer.com

But I do worry that we're overcomplicating it to the point they're inert, death by a thousand choices, whilst also leaving out the nitty gritty of how to achieve their goals in our zone.

One of Stephen Gerrard's players at Villa after he left said the problem was he was too good a player; he expected them to just "know" things they didn't. "He'd tell us what to do, but not how specifically to do it," he said (I'm paraphrasing from memory, apologies). "So he'd tell us to move to a certain area to support a teammate, but not how to make sure we can recieve and turn with the ball in double pressure when we moved there."

I sort of wonder if we're just concentraiting on a long list of tendences, overboggling them with what is supposed to happen, rather than keeping it simple and instead focussing their training on how to break out of traps, bad situatons, double teams.

We're trying to work the ball to certain areas that are more dangerous -- the top two corners of the box, for example, as primary attack points -- but we're not working on creating space in the box to attack by shifting defenders with tactical, prescribed movement.

That's just what it looks like from the outside. I could be completely wrong. But you can find tactical interviews with guys like Tata Martino, a guy who has never had a sub .500 season, and he's quite specific that he doesn't just manage, he coaches on the field, and he is very specific about not just what he needs but how to achieve it.

I think Nancy, with his time in youth development, is that way, too.

But adapting to the squad would be easier if the squad was built for flexibility. As it is, we are probably the least flexible lineup in the league, the most dependent on the same players doing the same things, because they are good at specific things, not a broad pallette.

Oso isn't really a speed merchant. His finishing is okay, but he's not driving to goal. He holds up the ball, beats a guy, slips a pass. That's his skillset.

MAK is a two way progressive passer. This week, he was alos much better both blocking and tackling, but that might largely be because he was pinned in our end. (Maybe he should really be a number six? Just a thought. Despite people in LA saying he can't tackle, he sure managed it this week. He had five.) Normally, his skill is receiving, using his long stride to gain a few yards space, then finding the player ahead.

Coincidentally, that's largely also MB's skill set. He's never been a strong tackler, but he blocks well and fills passing lanes well. He connects front and back.

So none of them play defense as a strength. But equally, none of could even be said to have "balanced" skill sets. As good as they are at short passing, they're all terrible in the air. As good as they are at finding a few feet of space to retain possessio, none of them has dangerous speed.

That's the problem. THe players we most need to be well rounded arent'.

The two superstars don't seem to like each other -- I mean, they're from rival clubs so maybe we shouldv'e expected that, and one is a quiet family guy while the other is a playboy. But more, they dont' seem to have confidence their teammates will be in the right place, because they're too inconsistent.

That's at least partly due to how we train movement, I'm sure. If they KNEW a player would be in a supportive location before looking, if they KNEW a triangle would give them two options every time without huge defensive pressure on at least one outlet, we'd be moving the ball smoothly.

But we're not. It's a poorly constructed lineup, regardless of what's been spent on it. They need to adapt to what they've got. The tactics and approach our coaching has taken to getting them to work together has so far not worked.

Maybe last week and this, playing the 4-2-3-1 offensively, were a sign Bob is adapting us tactically. But it seems begrudging and far too slow; two systems and differnet shape offensively and defensively? That somehow manages to be both arrogantly optimistic and stubbornly non-accepting, all at the same time.

Get us a dangerous striker, play the 4-2-3-1 consistently so the backline is shielded by at least one midfielder in a double pivot, then get down to having the ball move quickly and smoothly (especially quickly. our ball movement is turgid.)

We have the talent to go far, but we won't get there unless it becomes about adapting to who we have, rather than making them learn a system.

[OgtheDim]

On just one minor note

Be VERY careful about saying St. Louis is competitive.

a) they are using the Red Bull model - that has yet to work much past August

b) they have been gifted 2 goals in circumstances which in many leagues would have had people saying "was that scripted or did somebody gambling get to that guy?"

[jloome]

On just one minor note

Be VERY careful about saying St. Louis is competitive.

a) they are using the Red Bull model - that has yet to work much past August

b) they have been gifted 2 goals in circumstances which in many leagues would have had people saying "was that scripted or did somebody gambling get to that guy?"

Well.... okay, when they stop winning games and being competitive, I'll be careful about calling them competitive. Right now, I don't think it's inaccurate.

Their squad average score is 6.84, well above us. They're averaging fourteen shots per game.

They're competitive. I'm sure depth, travel etc will hit htem and the rush of being new will wear off, and they'll lose lots of games. But... they mostly just got here. Most of our team has been together now for nine months and they look like they've barely played together.

[Smokecell]

Well.... okay, when they stop winning games and being competitive, I'll be careful about calling them competitive. Right now, I don't think it's inaccurate.

Their squad average score is 6.84, well above us. They're averaging fourteen shots per game.

They're competitive. I'm sure depth, travel etc will hit htem and the rush of being new will wear off, and they'll lose lots of games. But... they mostly just got here. Most of our team has been together now for nine months and they look like they've barely played together.

STL was wise and frankly fortunate to have some of their bigger pieces, DPs included, playing for STL2 last season so there's more gel there than the average expansion team.

A point on the cap situation - are we sure that we are tapped out? I wasn't able to read the Molinaro article that touched on budget so it's conceivable that the answer to my question is already out there.

[SenorDingDong]

Most of our team has been together now for nine months and they look like they've barely played together.

Really? Out of our Starting XI 5-6 have been newcomers this season.

I feel like folks should listen to the media of Raoul last week. Guy doesn't even have a place to live in Toronto yet its all moved so fast. Not sure how we can expect them to have instant chemistry. He talked about that.

[jloome]

Really? Out of our Starting XI 5-6 have been newcomers this season.

I feel like folks should listen to the media of Raoul last week. Guy doesn't even have a place to live in Toronto yet its all moved so fast. Not sure how we can expect them to have instant chemistry. He talked about that.

Not on offense. We have a striker who's new but has worked in this system for three prior seasons, Diomande.

Our defense, which IS new, looks more cohesive than our offence, which isn't.

[OgtheDim]

Well.... okay, when they stop winning games and being competitive, I'll be careful about calling them competitive. Right now, I don't think it's inaccurate.

Their squad average score is 6.84, well above us. They're averaging fourteen shots per game.

They're competitive. I'm sure depth, travel etc will hit htem and the rush of being new will wear off, and they'll lose lots of games. But... they mostly just got here. Most of our team has been together now for nine months and they look like they've barely played together.


Competitive to me is where a team looks after 4-5 games and then where they are after half a season, 3/4 and a full one.

I put little to no stock in the first 2 weeks for any team, beyond tendencies - which you get right mostly, BTW.

[jloome]

Competitive to me is where a team looks after 4-5 games and then where they are after half a season, 3/4 and a full one.

I put little to no stock in the first 2 weeks for any team, beyond tendencies - which you get right mostly, BTW.

Ahh, I hope you're right dude. I know I've seen some MLS teams in the past who looked fucking woeful early suddenly turn it around. Maybe that's the nature of the travel, the shortened training weeks, the weather issues etc etc.

I forget that our guys spent half of training camp watching torrential california rain and video in equal measures.

But... I think anyone nervous right now pretty much has a right to be. I'm not sure I even put it down to Bob or the players, but more to the shambolic cap and roster management. It just doesn't feel like our pieces fit.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not on offense. We have a striker who's new but has worked in this system for three prior seasons, Diomande.

Our defense, which IS new, looks more cohesive than our offence, which isn't.
But Insigne went down before we even settled into match #1 and his replacement & our forwards are all junk along with our most offensively reliable midfielder looking about mid-January level in terms of form/fitness. That leaves Bernardeschi as the sole reliable member of our current offense. Not going to get much cohesion with only one useful player going forward.

But that's down to poor roster planning and keeping Ayo/not retooling with a few other options or hanging onto Shaffelburg.

[jloome]

But Insigne went down before we even settled into match #1 and his replacement & our forwards are all junk along with our most offensively reliable midfielder looking about mid-January level in terms of form/fitness. That leaves Bernardeschi as the sole reliable member of our current offense. Not going to get much cohesion with only one useful player going forward.

But that's down to poor roster planning and keeping Ayo/not retooling with a few other options or hanging onto Shaffelburg.

Do you think it's possible that maybe they do have the requisite understanding, but the very fact that it's a short pass, quick move possession offence means that if it's off sync at all, if a player is too slow to react, to move to space etc., it really shows and breaks down quickly?

And if so, does that make it optimistic for a roster as old and potentially infirm as ours?

In other words, they may know the tactics but a combination of factors makes it an unrealistic approach for MLS to begin with?

If we don't have all of our best players out there, who know each others' tendencies, isn't this always going to break down? If every approach into the box takes multiple passes, you're always a) vulnerable to one bad pass fucking the dog and b) giving the defenders time to bunker in with a tight block.

I think Bernadeschi's pass to the back post was one of the few surprisng things we tried all game. Bradley had a couple of long balls to the fullbacks that were promising as well.

I just worry that by the time we have the optimal healthy lineup together to put it all together, the season might be half over.

[Ultra & Proud]

Do you think it's possible that maybe they do have the requisite understanding, but the very fact that it's a short pass, quick move possession offence means that if it's off sync at all, if a player is too slow to react, to move to space etc., it really shows and breaks down quickly?

And if so, does that make it optimistic for a roster as old and potentially infirm as ours?

I 100% believe the tactics are being forced on a roster that they will never work well with. At least not consistently. Bob is trying to use a system built for mid 20's fit runners with a bunch of around 30 year olds that he chose. He is not playing to the strengths (and defintely not to the weaknesses) of the current roster.

At this point, with this current roster, I would argue that we would get better play from a hack like Olsen than what we will be getting from here on out unless they drastically alter MLS roster rules to allow Miami to fully woo Messi & his pals and we're allowed to reap the benefits of more cap space or DPs/etc.

[JoesphNdo]

Without knowing our cap situation it's hard to say for sure but I do agree with the general sentiment our cap has, likely, been managed very poorly and it's biting us in the ass. And find it hard to disagree that we seem to be going from a 'these people must play (One of whom arguably simply should not be starting every game), now work backwards to a coherent strategy' which is not an ideal way to do things. I'm still giving Bob until the summer, but the criteria, for me, is we need to look like an MLS contender by then. I'm not confident we'll get there, but also know that we will get much better with games under our belt.

[James17930]

All very good points here on multiple angles, but I think it's still too early to really make any definitive statements. We haven't even had a home game yet. Let's wait until April and see where the team is then.

[portu]

Wanting to throw two points in here, largely lifted from previous posts, positive and negative:

1. Positive
From 2015-2017 important players were signed in time for at least part of pre-season and the first match. Giovinco, Altidore, Moor, Johnson, Beitashour, Vazquez, Mavinga (out with a knock for game 1) were all critical members for the best seasons this club has ever had. 2015, 2016 and 2017 represent the 5th, 3rd and 1st spots for PPG in club history. 2020 (2nd best) had almost no major turnover which meant that everyone was together for a full pre-season.

Important players have been brought in advance of Game 1 this year. Big plus and positive.

2. Negative
In MLS, deals aren’t just “player = good = good signing” because every move you make limits your ability to make others. Deals are therefore about maximizing value, not just acquiring the best possible player. If you aren't finding bargains or value, you’re probably fucking your squad depth over by squeezing your budget and pigeon-holing players into the XI when you need depth.

Signings have not demonstrated the ability to maximize value and so it remains to be seen how this squad gets through 35+ games this season competitively without legit depth.

[FootBallAZ]

Not on offense. We have a striker who's new but has worked in this system for three prior seasons, Diomande.

Our defense, which IS new, looks more cohesive than our offence, which isn't.


The offense is the same and continuing from last season- issue I see- is the same thing- FB- brilliant piece of individual performance once again.

shots on target was 1 - total shots was 4? TFC passing was roughly 300 by contrast to Atlanta and their 600+ passing @ a much higher efficiency (passing %)

possession 30 % really kind of worries me as well.

the roster is not built to the vision of BB unfortunately - i hope he can adjust and possibly start having a better possession based game going forward( and no i wont be happy with backward passes and multiple passes in TFC side of the field.

[jloome]

The offense is the same and continuing from last season- issue I see- is the same thing- FB- brilliant piece of individual performance once again.

shots on target was 1 - total shots was 4? TFC passing was roughly 300 by contrast to Atlanta and their 600+ passing @ a much higher efficiency (passing %)

possession 30 % really kind of worries me as well.

the roster is not built to the vision of BB unfortunately - i hope he can adjust and possibly start having a better possession based game going forward( and no i wont be happy with backward passes and multiple passes in TFC side of the field.

I sort of feel like a team as slow as us, comparatively, in the center of the park should be filling up space on the pitch as evenly as possible, and playing a 4-4-2. I know it's old fashioned, but it plays to minimize our weaknesses and maximize our strengths.

Let the wings be our strength, use the overlap, have the central midfielders sit back and ping passes or defend, and use a false nine next to the striker who can both press and supply some service.

[Ultra & Proud]

start having a better possession based game going forward( and no i wont be happy with backward passes and multiple passes in TFC side of the field.
This is part of our DNA since the Vanney era. Even Armas-ball and almost a whole new core couldn't shake that from us. This is our way.

[Ultra & Proud]

I sort of feel like a team as slow as us, comparatively, in the center of the park should be filling up space on the pitch as evenly as possible, and playing a 4-4-2. I know it's old fashioned, but it plays to minimize our weaknesses and maximize our strengths.

Let the wings be our strength, use the overlap, have the central midfielders sit back and ping passes or defend, and use a false nine next to the striker who can both press and supply some service.

I said this before last weeks match and I think it's the only way (maybe 3-5-2 as well) to get the most out of what we have at our disposal.

We'll never do it but it's all that makes sense until we age out most of the current roster.

[FootBallAZ]

This is part of our DNA since the Vanney era. Even Armas-ball and almost a whole new core couldn't shake that from us. This is our way.


makes me so sad lol .

[FootBallAZ]

I sort of feel like a team as slow as us, comparatively, in the center of the park should be filling up space on the pitch as evenly as possible, and playing a 4-4-2. I know it's old fashioned, but it plays to minimize our weaknesses and maximize our strengths.

Let the wings be our strength, use the overlap, have the central midfielders sit back and ping passes or defend, and use a false nine next to the striker who can both press and supply some service.


sounds like pozuelo would be a perfect fit for what you are describing.

[jloome]

One thing I find disturbing about the current regime is that I assumed Bob would have solid contacts to bring in new talent.

I also assume he would recognize talent well himself.

But instead, the people making recommendations to him have been a bit of a bust and his own decisions have been a bit baffling.

Jimenez is probably a good player in exactly the right system, but he was cold as ice here. McNaughton is a decent backup but won't be more than that.

Chung wasn't even that.

And when we signed Chung, we could've signed Mohammed Farsi, who was probably the best rated fullback in the CPL at the time (Along with Diyaddine Abzi, who went to Ligue 2).

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but anyone who watched Farsi last weekend for Columbus might be wondering how anyone with decent judgement would recommend Chung over Farsi, as anything other than ego self-gratification (Chung's manager was one of Bob's associates).

The same manager, when he went to MLS NExt, picked up Farsi from Calgary, no one from his own team, Pacific.

Even ineffective against us, it was obvious Abzi at York had more talent than Chung, who had a cup of coffee with the Whitecaps already and was a known entity.

Then there's the deicsion last year to a) switch Petrasso from fullback to winger, and Shaffelburg from winger to fullback,, then b) essentially cut Shaffelburg, despite his success to that point, then c) decide Petrasso wasn't good enough and give him away; he's now Orlando's starting left fullback, having been moved back to his ideal position.

Both baffling, baffling decisions. Like, right out to left field. They may not have been immediate starters, but they were our two best backups.

I'm starting to think he's very, very old fashioned, and thinks everything is down to athleticism and intelligence, that any player can be moved to any position (Edit: The Kosi Thompson effect).

At the current level the game is being played, even in MLS, that is really reductive thinking if it's the case, that in an age with more specific technical training available than ever, what they've learned up to reaching us that is position specific should be just tossed out.

WE see this arrogance from MLS managers from time to time, like Miami moving Brek Shea to central defense, where he was as fucking useless as you'd assume he would be.

I'm not sure if Priso will come good, as he seems pretty inconsistent. But... he's starting in Colorado, as a mostly number six central midfielder. If the talent isn't there yet, Robin Fraser sure seems to think it's going to be. Again, isn't this our natural depth? But we gave him up for... MAK!? Does anyone really believe, at this point, that his judgment about Kaye is not at least part ego. His "discovery" isn't a consistent player, and we paid a MILLION in Gam for him.

Insanity.

It feels somewhat like he has no handle on actual talent and how to find it. He has a tactical and management approach that he believes in, but the actual reality of what we need requires both tactical and personnel flexibility.

We've taken in four players -- Diomande, Chung, McNaughton and Servania -- and three of those are "trust" choices, at least, guys he wanted rather than guys recommended by our allegedly large scouting contingent.

ANd all three are below par so far, quite badly in fact.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on Diomande, but he looked plagued with a lack of confidence on the weekend, and he's clearly lost a step in terms of avoiding pressure or turning with the ball.

Chung never looked the part. So ... why did we sign him? Trust?

Maybe what we need is a GM. I worry that LAFC's success was less down to Bob and more the players provided to him.



Maybe Servania was a turning point there and the scouting team convinced them he's a good signing. If so, it would be the first since Bob came in that wasn't him picking someone himself.

[reggie]

this is all on bill.he took the easy out again.making bb the GM

[jloome]

this is all on bill.he took the easy out again.making bb the GM

It's true. It's like he looked at LAFC and said 'the only thing preventing Bob from winning the cup" is that he doesn't run his own show, pick his own players.

But LAFC got better when he left. We haven't since he arrived.

He hasn't won a title now since 1996, and both the national teams he coached ultimately underperformed when the big game came. So did his club teams; Le Havre were heading for promotion and collapsed, losing badly on the last day to missout. Egypt? He bravely stayed through the revolution, then they got pounded in their final world cup qualifier and knocked out. The US famously lost badly to Ghana, a team it could've beaten, adn were knocked out.

Earlier, when he took the US to the COpa Ameria, he played a youth team to "prove" players and they were embarassed.

When he was given another MLS job, at Chivas USA, they were awful and he was sacked quickly. Yes, they won a supporter's shield at LAFC. But he didn't sign the players there, quite famously.

It's just starting to feel like a lot of reputation for "building" and "tinkering" without much real production.

And I think maybe we're seeing why; he's tactically inflexible, he wants to pick his own players despite not having an eye for talent, and he believes he can coach any player to play any position. And yet, he projects ferocious confidence, which is all a lot of people need to be convinced someone is brilliant.

I have to believe that some of our players are smart enough to know he's not the guy, which is just going to kill morale and energy, particuarly when they can't even talk about this shit in the dressing room, because their captain is his son.

I'm not optimistic right now. I want to be, but I don't see any logical reason to be.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's true. It's like he looked at LAFC and said 'the only thing preventing Bob from winning the cup" is that he doesn't run his own show, pick his own players.

But LAFC got better when he left. We haven't since he arrived.

He hasn't won a title now since 1996, and both the national teams he coached ultimately underperformed when the big game came. It's just starting to feel like a lot of reputation without much real production.

And I think maybe we're seeing why; he's tactically inflexible, he wants to pick his own players despite not having an eye for talent, and he believes he can coach any player to play any position.

I have to believe that some of our players are smart enough to know he's not the guy, which is just going to kill morale and energy, particuarly when they can't even talk about this shit in the dressing room, because their captain is his son.

I'm not optimistic right now. I want to be, but I don't see any logical reason to be.

As is he will probably be ousted by the end of the year and replaced with some random Italian manager who knows nothing about MLS.

I was pro-Smyrniotis before Bob and although I realize there's ugliness & politics involved, I'm sure he could be had with the right level of incentive. But he isn't a big name to sell for more season seats so that will never happen. All manager hires and big player acquisitions are scouted by PR people and approved by Bill based on projected membership sales.

[jloome]

As is he will probably be ousted by the end of the year and replaced with some random Italian manager who knows nothing about MLS.

I was pro-Smyrniotis before Bob and although I realize there's ugliness & politics involved, I'm sure he could be had with the right level of incentive. But he isn't a big name to sell for more season seats so that will never happen. All manager hires and big player acquisitions are scouted by PR people and approved by Bill based on projected membership sales.

I'd agree on Smyrniotis based on how his team play and how he develops youth. He'd be perfect. But I do worry that he projects the same kind of Svengali "deep in thought" mentor character as Bob, and he hasn't proven anything at a higher level yet. If we could get a Smyrniotis with the outward attitude and character of a Wilfried Nancy, on the other hand...

If they have any sense whatsover, they will find an international-quality manager with a constant winning record -- they do exist, Tata Martino is currently unemployed -- and back a truck of cash up to their door.

Really, that's what we need right now. No more MLS managers, no more guys who came up under 1.0 and think the entire game is a scrambling press.

We need quality. We need a Bielsa, a Martino, an Ancelloti. We need a career winner.

[ag futbol]

It's true. It's like he looked at LAFC and said 'the only thing preventing Bob from winning the cup" is that he doesn't run his own show, pick his own players.

But LAFC got better when he left. We haven't since he arrived.

He hasn't won a title now since 1996, and both the national teams he coached ultimately underperformed when the big game came. So did his club teams; Le Havre were heading for promotion and collapsed, losing badly on the last day to missout. Egypt? He bravely stayed through the revolution, then they got pounded in their final world cup qualifier and knocked out. The US famously lost badly to Ghana, a team it could've beaten, adn were knocked out.

Earlier, when he took the US to the COpa Ameria, he played a youth team to "prove" players and they were embarassed.

When he was given another MLS job, at Chivas USA, they were awful and he was sacked quickly. Yes, they won a supporter's shield at LAFC. But he didn't sign the players there, quite famously.

It's just starting to feel like a lot of reputation for "building" and "tinkering" without much real production.

And I think maybe we're seeing why; he's tactically inflexible, he wants to pick his own players despite not having an eye for talent, and he believes he can coach any player to play any position. And yet, he projects ferocious confidence, which is all a lot of people need to be convinced someone is brilliant.

I have to believe that some of our players are smart enough to know he's not the guy, which is just going to kill morale and energy, particuarly when they can't even talk about this shit in the dressing room, because their captain is his son.

I'm not optimistic right now. I want to be, but I don't see any logical reason to be.
Yeah, you summarized it nicely. I haven’t drawn any conclusions yet but a lot of the themes you hit on ring true. Decisions seem to be anchored by past history as opposed to a shrewd analysis of what will work in the league today. Wonder if the players feel that too.

Regarding your other post and Mo Farsi. It’s my observation that Tommy Wheeldon (coach of Calgary) is developing a track record of identifying / producing guys who are ready for the next step. Farsi, Waterman, Loturi (with Ross County), and others. Pretty good track record for a new club / league. Nobody i spot at the moment on Calvary that’s worth transferring but maybe something to keep an eye on.

[Ultra & Proud]

Really, that's what we need right now. No more MLS managers, no more guys who came up under 1.0 and think the entire game is a scrambling press.

We need quality. We need a Bielsa, a Martino, an Ancelloti. We need a career winner.
My bet right now based on Bill's tendencies would actually be us hiring Berhalter as first choice and Porter as option #2.

[ag futbol]

My bet right now based on Bill's tendencies would actually be us hiring Berhalter as first choice and Porter as option #2.
I don’t know why the board would give Bill another crack at things if this project failed and they had to replace the coach again. His judgement is very questionable at this stage.

His own personal track record too. He normally flies to coup at the first sniff of trouble. But maybe he knows he’s a horse close to the glue factory at his age and there is no “next” job after this one. Maybe he rides this out and our absentee owners fail to keep him on their radar.

[Kamp Berg]

I'd agree on Smyrniotis based on how his team play and how he develops youth. He'd be perfect. But I do worry that he projects the same kind of Svengali "deep in thought" mentor character as Bob, and he hasn't proven anything at a higher level yet. If we could get a Smyrniotis with the outward attitude and character of a Wilfried Nancy, on the other hand...

If they have any sense whatsover, they will find an international-quality manager with a constant winning record -- they do exist, Tata Martino is currently unemployed -- and back a truck of cash up to their door.

Really, that's what we need right now. No more MLS managers, no more guys who came up under 1.0 and think the entire game is a scrambling press.

We need quality. We need a Bielsa, a Martino, an Ancelloti. We need a career winner.

Absolutely, but I would bet money that the rot starts at the head. Manning needs to be replaced with someone with real pedigree and then a proven GM and a winning coach next. Plus MB should move on as well. Basically we need a full rebuild, not the weird transitions that have happened the last few years.

[Ultra & Proud]

Absolutely, but I would bet money that the rot starts at the head. Manning needs to be replaced with someone with real pedigree and then a proven GM and a winning coach next. Plus MB should move on as well. Basically we need a full rebuild, not the weird transitions that have happened the last few years.
I don't know if rot is the right word. Laziness and convenience seem about right. Most moves Manning makes are the simplest possible ones (managerial & GM ones to date) and then he hands off the keys (and responsibilty) to go play in ML$E land until there's wining & dining or a media event to attend.

I hope it all works out and the players magically adapt and we're good but if not then at least last season was the big tear down and we haven't added a bunch of boat anchor contracts (besides maybe Osorio) to the mix. If we have to fail and nuke the FO then this year is the year to do it.

[R.O.]

Do you think they are giving BB the keys to the house because the long-term plan is to turn the team over to MB? That would be my bet. Hopefully, MB gets his coaching license.

Off topic a little: Couple of years ago I was attending a wedding shower for one of my BF. One of his cousins brought her Husband with her. Eventually, I got to causally talking with him and asked what he did for a living. He worked for a start-up sports analytics company in Montreal. Interesting.

As I am a huge sports fan and I was just starting to understand advance analytics better (for all sports), I asked him what sports he worked on and he said, Soccer (Football, I know).

I hadn't heard much about Soccer Analytics (other than the Hockey Analytics community was using them as a guide) and which ones to pay attention too and I asked him that question: His answer: "Payroll, the best teams have the highest Payroll."

I think about that all the time re: TFC.

[Ultra & Proud]

Do you think they are giving BB the keys to the house because the long-term plan is to turn the team over to MB? That would be my bet. Hopefully, MB gets his coaching license.

A few years ago I wanted this but now don't at all. He just isn't what we need and we will require a Bradley break after this year probably.

However, he was a good ambassador from the club and his type of work hard, play the right way, and blah blah would probably translate well to working with our early teens level teams (12 to 17 maybe).

[JoesphNdo]

Do you think they are giving BB the keys to the house because the long-term plan is to turn the team over to MB? That would be my bet

It has felt like this was the plan for a while before BB even showed up. I may be wrong, but that's how it felt. I think it would likely be a massive gamble at best, and a huge, huge error at worst.

[Section 223]

As is he will probably be ousted by the end of the year and replaced with some random Italian manager who knows nothing about MLS.

I was pro-Smyrniotis before Bob and although I realize there's ugliness & politics involved, I'm sure he could be had with the right level of incentive. But he isn't a big name to sell for more season seats so that will never happen. All manager hires and big player acquisitions are scouted by PR people and approved by Bill based on projected membership sales.
We signed two Italian studs to look after the season seats, I am sure no one purchased seasons when the Bob Bradley signing was announced, I will take Smyrniotis or any random Italian coach over this disaster who is coaching us now

[SenorDingDong]

We signed two Italian studs to look after the season seats, I am sure no one purchased seasons when the Bob Bradley signing was announced, I will take Smyrniotis or any random Italian coach over this disaster who is coaching us now

Antonio Conte may be available soon!

[los sonadores]

One thing I find disturbing about the current regime is that I assumed Bob would have solid contacts to bring in new talent.

I also assume he would recognize talent well himself.

But instead, the people making recommendations to him have been a bit of a bust and his own decisions have been a bit baffling.

Jimenez is probably a good player in exactly the right system, but he was cold as ice here. McNaughton is a decent backup but won't be more than that.

Chung wasn't even that.

And when we signed Chung, we could've signed Mohammed Farsi, who was probably the best rated fullback in the CPL at the time (Along with Diyaddine Abzi, who went to Ligue 2).

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but anyone who watched Farsi last weekend for Columbus might be wondering how anyone with decent judgement would recommend Chung over Farsi, as anything other than ego self-gratification (Chung's manager was one of Bob's associates).

The same manager, when he went to MLS NExt, picked up Farsi from Calgary, no one from his own team, Pacific.

Even ineffective against us, it was obvious Abzi at York had more talent than Chung, who had a cup of coffee with the Whitecaps already and was a known entity.

Then there's the deicsion last year to a) switch Petrasso from fullback to winger, and Shaffelburg from winger to fullback,, then b) essentially cut Shaffelburg, despite his success to that point, then c) decide Petrasso wasn't good enough and give him away; he's now Orlando's starting left fullback, having been moved back to his ideal position.

Both baffling, baffling decisions. Like, right out to left field. They may not have been immediate starters, but they were our two best backups.

I'm starting to think he's very, very old fashioned, and thinks everything is down to athleticism and intelligence, that any player can be moved to any position (Edit: The Kosi Thompson effect).

At the current level the game is being played, even in MLS, that is really reductive thinking if it's the case, that in an age with more specific technical training available than ever, what they've learned up to reaching us that is position specific should be just tossed out.

WE see this arrogance from MLS managers from time to time, like Miami moving Brek Shea to central defense, where he was as fucking useless as you'd assume he would be.

I'm not sure if Priso will come good, as he seems pretty inconsistent. But... he's starting in Colorado, as a mostly number six central midfielder. If the talent isn't there yet, Robin Fraser sure seems to think it's going to be. Again, isn't this our natural depth? But we gave him up for... MAK!? Does anyone really believe, at this point, that his judgment about Kaye is not at least part ego. His "discovery" isn't a consistent player, and we paid a MILLION in Gam for him.

Insanity.

It feels somewhat like he has no handle on actual talent and how to find it. He has a tactical and management approach that he believes in, but the actual reality of what we need requires both tactical and personnel flexibility.

We've taken in four players -- Diomande, Chung, McNaughton and Servania -- and three of those are "trust" choices, at least, guys he wanted rather than guys recommended by our allegedly large scouting contingent.

ANd all three are below par so far, quite badly in fact.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on Diomande, but he looked plagued with a lack of confidence on the weekend, and he's clearly lost a step in terms of avoiding pressure or turning with the ball.

Chung never looked the part. So ... why did we sign him? Trust?

Maybe what we need is a GM. I worry that LAFC's success was less down to Bob and more the players provided to him.

Maybe Servania was a turning point there and the scouting team convinced them he's a good signing. If so, it would be the first since Bob came in that wasn't him picking someone himself.

Bob Bradley’s first season was totally baffling to me right from the beginning. It still is because he’s done a 100% about-face in terms of the roster. Not from bad to good necessarily but from kids out of position to the oldest, most experienced eleven in the league. It seemed last season was much too laissez faire, that he could do what he wanted in terms of personnel with impunity and at the time he had his hands full coaching. But truly I don’t know what the hell he was doing especially when it came to Petrasso, Shaff, Priso who are indeed the cheap depth we currently lack. After being hired said he knew the roster well from years of following his son. Maybe not.

This season I’m going to wait and see what he does with what he’s built. Isn’t it 35 players he’s shown the door, one way or another, in in about 14 months!? That’s a hell of a lot. So far I don’t see that he’s learned what exactly to do with the sporting director/head coach role(s). Last season I suggested often that we needed a proper, dedicated GM and I’m thinking the same thing this season. It’s just that it’s difficult to square last season with this season, so far, in terms of evaluating Bradley. I want to see a little more ‘data’ as they say (the data provided mostly by one’s own brain/experience and eyes, I mean.)

Your speculations here seem plausible to me, for sure.

[Section 223]

Antonio Conte may be available soon!cost would be too great rather they take that money and put it in our 3rd DP

[OgtheDim]

We signed two Italian studs to look after the season seats, I am sure no one purchased seasons when the Bob Bradley signing was announced, I will take Smyrniotis or any random Italian coach over this disaster who is coaching us now


Symniotas turned you lot down so you went for Losada...

[Ultra & Proud]

Symniotas turned you lot down so you went for Losada...
Yeah, what's the official Section 223 opinion on your new guy Losada?

He is legit worse than Bob Bradley unless the goal is to run a fat camp during the season.

[Kamp Berg]

I don't know if rot is the right word. Laziness and convenience seem about right. Most moves Manning makes are the simplest possible ones (managerial & GM ones to date) and then he hands off the keys (and responsibilty) to go play in ML$E land until there's wining & dining or a media event to attend.

I hope it all works out and the players magically adapt and we're good but if not then at least last season was the big tear down and we haven't added a bunch of boat anchor contracts (besides maybe Osorio) to the mix. If we have to fail and nuke the FO then this year is the year to do it.

Maybe rot is too strong a word, but I’d say lazy is too forgiving, unless it’s twinned with arrogance.

[Kamp Berg]

Do you think they are giving BB the keys to the house because the long-term plan is to turn the team over to MB? That would be my bet. Hopefully, MB gets his coaching license.

Off topic a little: Couple of years ago I was attending a wedding shower for one of my BF. One of his cousins brought her Husband with her. Eventually, I got to causally talking with him and asked what he did for a living. He worked for a start-up sports analytics company in Montreal. Interesting.

As I am a huge sports fan and I was just starting to understand advance analytics better (for all sports), I asked him what sports he worked on and he said, Soccer (Football, I know).

I hadn't heard much about Soccer Analytics (other than the Hockey Analytics community was using them as a guide) and which ones to pay attention too and I asked him that question: His answer: "Payroll, the best teams have the highest Payroll."

I think about that all the time re: TFC.

The possibility of MB taking over worries me to no end. A complete housecleaning is needed if the current experiment fails. This should be the last chance to succeed, if not Manning, BB, and MB need to go and allow a true rebirth of the club.

[reggie]

its jus about ticket sales for the argo president.he has got no cache in the futbol world,maybe he was good for salt lake and the 2 mil budgets but this is way over his head now

[jloome]

Probably just supposition, but Firmino to MLS seems a reasonable idea in England.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/08/liverpool-transfer-news-roberto-firmino-now-attracting-interest-from-mls/

[Mr. Inbetween]

Symniotas turned you lot down so you went for Losada...

If it all craters... It would be interesting to see Carletto. Otherwise... Nancy, Wilfried, would be my candidate/compromise; Vaney-esque/2.0.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Probably just supposition, but Firmino to MLS seems a reasonable idea in England.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/08/liverpool-transfer-news-roberto-firmino-now-attracting-interest-from-mls/

I would welcome him. Also... :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1616239511142383616/pDmbpM1o_400x400.jpg

[Kamp Berg]

its jus about ticket sales for the argo president.he has got no cache in the futbol world,maybe he was good for salt lake and the 2 mil budgets but this is way over his head now

No doubt. The longer he’s here, the more I’m sure he is the root of the club’s issues. That and the zombie corporate ownership that allows him to continue.

[Section 223]

No doubt. The longer he’s here, the more I’m sure he is the root of the club’s issues. That and the zombie corporate ownership that allows him to continue.
Yes I shudder to think what Bob and Bill would do with a low budget MLS franchise

[MikeForbes]

Probably just supposition, but Firmino to MLS seems a reasonable idea in England.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/08/liverpool-transfer-news-roberto-firmino-now-attracting-interest-from-mls/

The Brazilian Mullinho would be welcome here to help us lock down wins.

[NK Toronto]

The possibility of MB taking over worries me to no end. A complete housecleaning is needed if the current experiment fails. This should be the last chance to succeed, if not Manning, BB, and MB need to go and allow a true rebirth of the club.

If this experiment fails and the playoffs are missed again this year then you might as well rebrand the club

[Red CB Toronto]

For those not in the building on Saturday, the Apple TV assignments. There is also a French and Spanish broadcast crew on Apple calling the game too. Will be busy up in the booths with three crew. No TSN this week as they have the Montreal game Saturday.

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/334155105_886030596035935_4134203356798719663_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=yasssB4uT4IAX8kK-CD&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=03_AdRbm-ggMIj06HJqYzGV9QeYSgA6PxDSL_VmKPWmxyZQRw&oe=6430A6AB

[Section 223]

Yeah, what's the official Section 223 opinion on your new guy Losada?

He is legit worse than Bob Bradley unless the goal is to run a fat camp during the season.
For the record I’m a Day 1 season seat holder, what is your problem man ? I choose to call out management for its incompetence, I watched Montreal play attractive football these last few years on a fraction of the budget of our club. Try to picture Bob Bradley and Bill running this club on a small market budget, not a pretty sight is it?

[Kamp Berg]

Yes I shudder to think what Bob and Bill would do with a low budget MLS franchise

I actually think they would both do better on low budget teams. Access to money to can really skew some people’s perspectives and decision making. I say this due to dealing with some very rich and powerful people. We need people who have the wherewithal to connect rich and powerful to the everyday(in the football world). Leiweke seemed to get it.

[ag futbol]

I actually think they would both do better on low budget teams. Access to money to can really skew some people’s perspectives and decision making. I say this due to dealing with some very rich and powerful people. We need people who have the wherewithal to connect rich and powerful to the everyday(in the football world). Leiweke seemed to get it.
I’m not trying to pile on here as I know the OP has a bit of a rep for inflaming things on this board but I fail to see how this could possibly be the case.

I know what you’re driving at. In the sense that some managers have skills that better fit a low budget setup. They’re good at hunting for bargains or developing talent and probably feel uncomfortable with the immediate pressure to win at a big budget club.

But I don’t see either Bill or Bob as that low budget type at all. Looking at the nature of our signings and the way they operate, I think they’d face plant hard in that sort of money constrained environment. Now if you said someone like Ali Curtis, who seemed to have a very modest vision and was always digging around for shit in the weeds, I might agree with you.

[Ultra & Proud]

I watched Montreal play attractive football these last few years on a fraction of the budget of our club.

They played attractive football for a year or so under Nancy and during his best season (2022):


8. Toronto FC: $15,210,000 15. CF Montréal: $12,920,000
Not the fraction that I think you were expecting. Now this year it will be much different obviously but Montreal will also be Wooden Spoon level shit whereas we'll probably be mediocre.

[Oldtimer]

For the record I’m a Day 1 season seat holder, what is your problem man ? I choose to call out management for its incompetence, I watched Montreal play attractive football these last few years on a fraction of the budget of our club. Try to picture Bob Bradley and Bill running this club on a small market budget, not a pretty sight is it?

So what if you've held BMO tickets because Stade Saputo is too far away to watch your team Montreal play?

It would be more plausible that you were really a full-hearted Toronto fan impressed by good management elsewhere if you were praising Seattle or even Columbus, who have actually well-run teams. Joey Saputo has to be the most idiosyncratic and cheapskate owner in MLS, and while he's hired the occasional decent first team coach, he usually ultimately gets in fights with his coach leading to said coach being fired or quitting. Mr. Cheese puts the "fun" into disfunctional. No serious soccer analyst has much respect for Montreal's ownership.

[Kamp Berg]

I’m not trying to pile on here as I know the OP has a bit of a rep for inflaming things on this board but I fail to see how this could possibly be the case.

I know what you’re driving at. In the sense that some managers have skills that better fit a low budget setup. They’re good at hunting for bargains or developing talent and probably feel uncomfortable with the immediate pressure to win at a big budget club.

But I don’t see either Bill or Bob as that low budget type at all. Looking at the nature of our signings and the way they operate, I think they’d face plant hard in that sort of money constrained environment. Now if you said someone like Ali Curtis, who seemed to have a very modest vision and was always digging around for shit in the weeds, I might agree with you.

I hear what you are saying, but not sure it invalidates my point. Neither can seem to make good decisions in a big money environment. Too many options to keep on a clear path maybe? But both have only seemed to excel in constrained or low budget environments. If your point is they can’t be successful in any environment, I might agree with that, lol.

[jloome]

I hear what you are saying, but not sure it invalidates my point. Neither can seem to make good decisions in a big money environment. Too many options to keep on a clear path maybe? But both have only seemed to excel in constrained or low budget environments. If your point is they can’t be successful in any environment, I might agree with that, lol.

If excellence is judged by winning, neither has excelled for much of their career. Manning literally walked into an already built RSL, which only made the playoffs on the final day because of our collapse at NYRB. He had zero to do with "building a winner" there, as it's also the last time they won anything.

Bob won the Supporter's Shield at LA but had a $15.3M budget to do it. At Chivas, where he had a limited budget, he was fired after winning only 10 games, as I recall. He won in Chicago's first year in 1996 but the level then was borderline semi-pro.

Bob had some good second and fourth-place finishes with cheaper teams, but in both cases had opportunities to win the league and didn't.

At Swansea, where he had no roster movement and wasn't there long, he had no real budget relative to the level and flunked out quickly. His other two most succesful gigs were national teams.

So neither of them has "won" anything on a cheap budget, I would say. Manning's wins here were with (once again a team he didn't build) the highest payoll in the league.

I do agree with the general contention though that for some people, money complicates more than it helps.

[Kamp Berg]

If excellence is judged by winning, neither has excelled for much of their career. Manning literally walked into an already built RSL, which only made the playoffs on the final day because of our collapse at NYRB. He had zero to do with "building a winner" there, as it's also the last time they won anything.

Bob won the Supporter's Shield at LA but had a $15.3M budget to do it. At Chivas, where he had a limited budget, he was fired after winning only 10 games, as I recall. He won in Chicago's first year in 1996 but the level then was borderline semi-pro.

Bob had some good second and fourth-place finishes with cheaper teams, but in both cases had opportunities to win the league and didn't.

At Swansea, where he had no roster movement and wasn't there long, he had no real budget relative to the level and flunked out quickly. His other two most succesful gigs were national teams.

So neither of them has "won" anything on a cheap budget, I would say. Manning's wins here were with (once again a team he didn't build) the highest payoll in the league.

I do agree with the general contention though that for some people, money complicates more than it helps.

Well, it certainly seems that an argument can be made that none of the leadership on the team has had any clear success in a professional environment. I’d argue that MB could be lumped in with his dad and Manning, as Giovinco and Pozuelo were the obvious difference makers during the winning years. Not to say that MB wasn’t important at the time, but he certainly wasn’t irreplaceable like Giovinco and, to a limited extent, Pozuelo was.

[reggie]

according to manning oso is in the dp slot for now.no new dp until summer

[Section 223]

They played attractive football for a year or so under Nancy and during his best season (2022):


8. Toronto FC: $15,210,000

15. CF Montréal: $12,920,000


Not the fraction that I think you were expecting. Now this year it will be much different obviously but Montreal will also be Wooden Spoon level shit whereas we'll probably be mediocre.
The club is currently paying over 30 million in yearly wages , we haven’t won a game since last summer, I sure hope as you say we reach that mediocrity level

[SenorDingDong]

according to manning oso is in the dp slot for now.no new dp until summer

This was obvious though and makes sense. No point filling that 3rd DP slot till the European transfer window opens and lots of players are out of contract.

[FootBallAZ]

according to manning oso is in the dp slot for now.no new dp until summer


LOL!!!! i guess no depth is coming

[Ultra & Proud]

The club is currently paying over 30 million in yearly wages , we haven’t won a game since last summer, I sure hope as you say we reach that mediocrity level
The last 4 matches of 2022 are irrelevant. This year we lost one we should have won and drew one we should have lost. That's mediocrity right there.

[FootBallAZ]

This was obvious though and makes sense. No point filling that 3rd DP slot till the European transfer window opens and lots of players are out of contract.


well i mean- there also is no point in waiting so long to add a 3rd DP when LI and FB are going on the second year- then we will hear the new DP will need time to build chemistry at the end of August- as TFC tries to make a play-off push.

Seems like no strategy in place.

[FootBallAZ]

The club is currently paying over 30 million in yearly wages , we haven’t won a game since last summer, I sure hope as you say we reach that mediocrity level


Still paying Curtis and Armas and I believe Jozy, Auro and Soteldo?

[Ultra & Proud]

well i mean- there also is no point in waiting so long to add a 3rd DP when LI and FB are going on the second year- then we will hear the new DP will need time to build chemistry at the end of August- as TFC tries to make a play-off push.

Seems like no strategy in place.

There sort of is unless it's by happenstance.

Like if I were running things I may have waited too. First with the expanded, ridiculous playoff field the first half of the season really doesn't matter at all anymore. It's like an extended pre-season to get ready for the push towards the fall. Second is the Messi factor. If MLS does what it probably will have to do for him to come this summer then getting saddled with a certain contract now may not necessarily pay off then. You never know with MLS and usually what they do decide to do is stupid so it could be something like "sign only 2 DPs and then convert that last DP spot to 3 cap exempt TAM level domestics" or something like that.

[Ultra & Proud]

Still paying Curtis and Armas and I believe Jozy, Auro and Soteldo?
Not sure about Curtis but not the other 3 anymore.

[Canary10]

For the record I’m a Day 1 season seat holder, what is your problem man ? I choose to call out management for its incompetence, I watched Montreal play attractive football these last few years on a fraction of the budget of our club. Try to picture Bob Bradley and Bill running this club on a small market budget, not a pretty sight is it?

For the amount of #@*$ you throw around on anyone and everyone, you should at least have a sense of humour when it gets thrown back.

[SenorDingDong]

well i mean- there also is no point in waiting so long to add a 3rd DP when LI and FB are going on the second year- then we will hear the new DP will need time to build chemistry at the end of August- as TFC tries to make a play-off push.

Seems like no strategy in place.

Why rush to fill the spot? DP slots should only be used if it makes sense. I feel like Salcedo and Soltedo is what happens when you rush to fill it.

This team needed more MLS players and Non DP's this offseason for more then it needed a 3rd DP.

[Mr. Inbetween]

According to BM... Osorio is 'slotted' for now as the 3rd DP for club cap relief. Will review that DP sitch, 'flip it', depending on how things play out, at next/summer window according to any requirement/s. Also, suggests that they just got to 'finalize' the deal to keep Richie! Do we interpret that as they are therefore working on it?

https://twitter.com/TSN1050Radio/status/1633858290760261632

[Section 223]

Still paying Curtis and Armas and I believe Jozy, Auro and Soteldo?
And Lawrence

[Section 223]

There sort of is unless it's by happenstance.

Like if I were running things I may have waited too. First with the expanded, ridiculous playoff field the first half of the season really doesn't matter at all anymore. It's like an extended pre-season to get ready for the push towards the fall. Second is the Messi factor. If MLS does what it probably will have to do for him to come this summer then getting saddled with a certain contract now may not necessarily pay off then. You never know with MLS and usually what they do decide to do is stupid so it could be something like "sign only 2 DPs and then convert that last DP spot to 3 cap exempt TAM level domestics" or something like that.
“The first half of the season really doesn’t matter” Oh really, why do you get more points for a win in the second half of the season? If we didn’t poop the bed in the first half last season we probably make the playoffs, hope this team doesn’t have this mentality and decide the first half doesn’t matter we will turn it on the second half.

[Ultra & Proud]

“The first half of the season really doesn’t matter” Oh really, why do you get more points for a win in the second half of the season? If we didn’t poop the bed in the first half last season we probably make the playoffs, hope this team doesn’t have this mentality and decide the first half doesn’t matter we will turn it on the second half.

Last season we would have missed the playoffs by 8 points going by the new format. It won't take much to make it so yes, the first part of the season isn't as important as it used to be. Obviously the team can't have like 5 points but I already said we'd be mediocre and that's what you would need to be to be between 7th to 11th come July.

[los sonadores]

Not intending to fan the flames of discontent (so to speak) but I do find it kind of amusingly contemporary Canadian that we have a supposed diehard TFC fan who prefers our arch rivals. Can anyone imagine such a thing in those many countries (and cities) where sectarianism reigns in life and football? It would be unthinkable and never to be taken seriously.

[jloome]

Not intending to fan the flames of discontent (so to speak) but I do find it kind of amusingly contemporary Canadian that we have a supposed diehard TFC fan who prefers our arch rivals. Can anyone imagine such a thing in those many countries (and cities) where sectarianism reigns in life and football? It would be unthinkable and never to be taken seriously.


So... Belotti or Firmino, if we had a choice?

[Ultra & Proud]

So... Belotti or Firmino, if we had a choice?

125% Firmino

[Bushmancan]

Whoever wants to be here the most.

[los sonadores]

So... Belotti or Firmino, if we had a choice?

Belloti sounds like he did his best not to come and now TFC would be last ditch. Firminio, false nine, ten, pressing, off the ball movement… let’s get that Manning engineered budget increase, hah!.

Whoever plays between the Italians needs their respect, for sure. More and more I think that 3rd DP has to be a striker.

[Ultra & Proud]

Belloti sounds like he did his best not to come and now TFC would be last ditch. Firminio, false nine, ten, pressing, off the ball movement… let’s get that Manning engineered budget increase, hah!.

Whoever plays between the Italians needs their respect, for sure. More and more I think that 3rd DP has to be a striker.

After everything Firmino did between Salah & Mane you'd have to think Insigne & Bernardeschi would be pretty excited to add him to the front line over the likes of Dio & Ayo.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Ok. Wow!

https://twitter.com/leeds_utd_news/status/1634183020927123456

https://twitter.com/RossAftbl/status/1634148139446796288

[jloome]

Ok. Wow!



Been out there for a few days already. Everyone but Atlanta and DC pulled their interest once they learned it was a three-month deal.

[Red CB Toronto]

Been out there for a few days already. Everyone but Atlanta and DC pulled their interest once they learned it was a three-month deal.

Not surprising at all, a lot teams were not going to upheave their roster even if it gave them a boost for such a short term thing. Glad the Reds did not, let the roster they have gel and see where you stand come the summer and tweak things as long term opportunities the will hopefully improve the team come up.

[jloome]

Not surprising at all, a lot teams were not going to upheave their roster even if it gave them a boost for such a short term thing. Glad the Reds did not, let the roster they have gel and see where you stand come the summer and tweak things as long term opportunities the will hopefully improve the team come up.

Yeah, I'm not sure of the message Rooney's sending to Canouse or Durkin or whomever sits. "Son, you're not good enough to lace this guy's shoelaces, so you're going to sit temporarily until he goes home again."

Shades of Bendik losing his confidence because we rented Julio Cesar.

[Mr. Inbetween]

If anything, perhaps a current status measure for comparative quality between leagues? More a matter now of let's wait and see how he performs. What sort of immediate impact he may have in MLS for DCU; as a noteworthy footballer with primarily L2/L1/Championship experience?

[SenorDingDong]

Whoever wants to be here the most.

This is the correct answer. Both could do well.

I don't think Belotti wants to be here so pass if that's the case.

Also glad we passed on O'Brien. Rental for 3 months? No thanks. We need team unison and cohesion right now.

[buddies]

Not surprising at all, a lot teams were not going to upheave their roster even if it gave them a boost for such a short term thing. Glad the Reds did not, let the roster they have gel and see where you stand come the summer and tweak things as long term opportunities the will hopefully improve the team come up.

Maybe I'm an outlier. I'd have taken him in a heartbeat for three months. This is a results based business. It's about points at the end of the season. Why should we be any different than Everton or AC Milan when they took Landon Donovan or David Beckham on loan for three months? Adding someone in the summer window only gives us about three months of service this season anyway. We haven't shown to be good in the midfield so far (although I can actually see a midfield three of Bradley, Kaye and Osorio ... with a dash of Servania and Vazquez in there as having potential to become a decent MLS midfield). As Lou and Dubas have been quoted "if you have time ... use it". The difference between winning or losing teams is often down to momentum and confidence. The difference between a good player and a squad rotation guy is often how he deals with the hardships of being part of a squad rotation. Throwing in a "ringer" for three months could sort out the men from the boys and hopefully tell us how much of a difference adding a DP level midfielder would have if we wanted to add one in the summer after O'Brien goes back.

[Canary10]

We should go all out for Bob. Imagine that front 3?!!

[jloome]

We should go all out for Bob. Imagine that front 3?!!

I do sort of wonder, if the cap management is as horrific as we think, whether they're really loading up for next year, because they know big cap and transfer changes are coming.

Apparently the Apple deal is contingent on subscriber targets.

If they aren't hitting them towards playoff time, I expect the owners and Garber will be having a long talk about how much to hike spending next year, given how many of them own teams in other sports with much larger payrolls.

If they think the money is really in media coverage and want to compete with top leagues, they will have to be considering a rapid acceleration before the main TV deal that could prompt it all is under threat.

[reggie]

according to BB they may not sign a 3rd DP.its not in the budget at the moment

[Phil744]

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1634297985700864000?t=q-Dt8XHgiNO7kYfKYMTvkQ&s=19

[OgtheDim]

Based on the presser today and what BB said, and other times we have heard this from Manning, it is now clear MLSE has decided not to spend the same amount of money on a 3rd DP as they did on the first 2.

So look for a forward who would cost $2 - 3 million per year who is coming out of contract in June.

[TFCDP]

Sometimes these roster related posts and tweets are so disheartening. Been prowling on this forum for many years. MLS rules aside, I don't buy the fact this is a "big" club. Pun probably intended. It just feels like we're on the outskirts of big. I'm thrilled with our DPs, but I guess I've come to expect more. Just feels like we're close but the interest isn't there to put us over the top. Maybe I'm a spoiled brat but I want more! Hopefully MLSE will prove me wrong.

[Mr. Inbetween]

If a consideration/solution to the situation is to utilize Fede as a 10 then maybe a look at someone like a Daniele Verde on RW to replace him there may be worth a squeeze?

https://www.tln.ca/daniele-verde-exclusive-interview-spezia/
(https://www.tln.ca/daniele-verde-exclusive-interview-spezia/)
Would Verde Ever Make the Move to MLS?

“IT’S OFTEN TALKED ABOUT HERE IN ITALY. IN RECENT YEARS IT HAS GROWN A LOT BOTH AS A BRAND AND AS A LEAGUE. THERE ARE MANY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN AND MANY FOREIGNERS WHO TRANSFER THERE SO WE HEAR ABOUT IT OFTEN. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I WOULDN’T MIND IT BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE BEYOND EVERYTHING – IT’S A DIFFERENT CULTURE, EVERYTHING IS VERY DIFFERENT.”

BTW... let us not dismiss the notion that any arrival of the GOAT to MLS may also have a hyper drive side effect of attracting more player interest to the league.

Swapping Jerseys With Lionel Messi

“I HAD ASKED ALREADY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME IF HE WANTED TO EXCHANGE IT AFTERWARDS AND HE HAD TOLD ME YES. AT THE END OF THE GAME I REMINDED HIM – HE TOOK OFF HIS SHIRT AND GAVE IT TO ME. FOR ME, I MIGHT AS WELL STOP PLAYING SOCCER – HIS JERSEY IS THE ULTIMATE LEVEL.”

[Mr. Inbetween]

I would like to reiterate how fortunate MLSE/TFC are in acquiring Federico Bernardeschi; that they should count their luck stars. Fede is pure marketing Rhodium! Remarkable skill set aside, his demeanor and persona seems genuine, being fun and contagious...

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1634367044027052033

BTW, given the considerable roster turnover at TFC, does anyone understand during travel which players are bunking with which players?

[SenorDingDong]

BTW, given the considerable roster turnover at TFC, does anyone understand during travel which players are bunking with which players?

Watch this, which came out yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF89eTJ0Z1M

Puts a full stop to anyone saying Insigne doesn't bond with the team and all that too.

In short - Fede, Insigne, Richie, Vasquez, Michael and now Raoul all seem to be pretty tight.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Thanks SDD for bringing this to my attention. Missed it somehow. Saw the short clip, didn't notice 'the full episode' link. Really enjoyed it. Team camaraderie seems to be forming. Everyone's body language seemed positive. All the new imports seem to have a decent command of their English. Liked being introduced to Raoul and Siggi. Nice to see Victor in the mix, loose, having fun. I do think Lolo has some apprehension about his 'public' communication abilities; hope he is working on it and that TFC are helping him. I get a mischievous fun vibe from him. The camera... well... it just loves Fede.

[ag futbol]

I’ll be a broken record with this but TFC should look at Justin Smith. Looked amazing with the youth nats teams (easily our best player in the last cycle). Struggling to find time in Europe.

Plays as at 6, 8, or CB. I think 6 is probably his best position though.

[Phil744]

https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1634654821255979009?t=yJBM3SzUBhlBVq5aBFOggQ&s=19

[Mr. Inbetween]

Oh boy... all of a sudden... are we in trouble?

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1634912123863322626

[Richard]

Is anyone really shocked?

[Ultra & Proud]

Oh boy... all of a sudden... are we in trouble?

https://twitter.com/KULA1087/status/1634912123863322626

FWIW I thought Kerr was better than Dio & Ayo so until he drops the ball I'd be starting him anyway. However if BB has any sense then Peruzza better be coming up off the bench over Hugo if needed.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW I thought Kerr was better than Dio & Ayo so until he drops the ball I'd be starting him anyway. However if BB has any sense then Peruzza better be coming up off the bench over Hugo if needed.

I agree.

BTW, regarding Kerr, there may have been some concerns shared earlier in this thread about his ability as a striker. Is anyone able to confirm if that is/was his natural position? If not, what is/was?

[jloome]

I agree.

BTW, regarding Kerr, there may have been some concerns shared earlier in this thread about his ability as a striker. Is anyone able to confirm if that is/was his natural position? If not, what is/was?

He played as a right-winger for TFC youth.

He was playing as a running striker, trying to break down the backline. If we have possession in the other team's end for any prolonged period, he has zero experience as a number 9 and may experience the same issues Jiminez did. Same type of player, same scenario.

But he playedll all around, and shouldn't have come off early.

[Ultra & Proud]

I agree.

BTW, regarding Kerr, there may have been some concerns shared earlier in this thread about his ability as a striker. Is anyone able to confirm if that is/was his natural position? If not, what is/was?

He was a forward but usually on the right wing. He did have goal scoring ability at Syracuse and he did a score a few decent ones last year. I figured he could score with service but I surprised that he shielded the ball well, held up okay, and generally made good decisions when passing/moving. Saw more from him in his 50 whatever minutes yesterday than Ayo or Dio so far.

[Ultra & Proud]

So 3 matches in who had MB as our best midfielder and Osorio as our worst one on their bingo card? MAK pushing Oso for the worst spot but MAK seems to have improved a little bit and is there defensively. Can't say that about Oso yet.

[ag futbol]

FWIW I thought Kerr was better than Dio & Ayo so until he drops the ball I'd be starting him anyway. However if BB has any sense then Peruzza better be coming up off the bench over Hugo if needed.
I thought he was better too. For a guy with zero experience at that role he did a good job popping up between the lines and providing at outlet for a quick pass into the final third so we could move further into the attacking zone.

[ag futbol]

So 3 matches in who had MB as our best midfielder and Osorio as our worst one on their bingo card? MAK pushing Oso for the worst spot but MAK seems to have improved a little bit and is there defensively. Can't say that about Oso yet.
I think MAK has been the worst by some distance. Osorio has done some stuff that has not come off. Any praise for Bradley should be tempered by the fact dad is tactically adjusting quite a bit to hide his weaknesses. Another coach would not be so kind.

[jloome]

I think MAK has been the worst by some distance. Osorio has done some stuff that has not come off. Any praise for Bradley should be tempered by the fact dad is tactically adjusting quite a bit to hide his weaknesses. Another coach would not be so kind.

If I'm Manning I'm on the phone to Tata Martino's agent already. But if he had the judgement to figure out this isn't working, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

Jesus H, even the shirts looked terrible.

[jloome]

I'm so pissed off about Shaffelburg. So pissed.

It sums up everything that isn't working with the current regime.

He won't be moulded into being a defender when he's clearly an attacker so Bradley just gets rid of him, we give him away.

Two goals in three games for Nashville. Who wants to bet against him getting 10 this year, playing next to Hany Mukhtar.

Got rid of Poz, so no one to feed him, I guess...

We're a shambles of football belief systems masquerading as fact.

[Section 223]

I think MAK has been the worst by some distance. Osorio has done some stuff that has not come off. Any praise for Bradley should be tempered by the fact dad is tactically adjusting quite a bit to hide his weaknesses. Another coach would not be so kind.
Well said astute comment , I see the same Michael Bradleys flaws are hidden in the way we set up. I have been saying that Michael is the problem for some time just wish Bob didn’t get rid of all his replacements

[notthesun]

I'm so pissed off about Shaffelburg. So pissed.

I posted in another thread but Bob just looks like such a fool for this. Not only was there clear promise with Shaff, but now we're even playing a 4-3-3 going forward for god's sake, he could be slotting in at LW so easily for us. Absolutely needless trade.

[los sonadores]

I'm so pissed off about Shaffelburg. So pissed.

It sums up everything that isn't working with the current regime.

He won't be moulded into being a defender when he's clearly an attacker so Bradley just gets rid of him, we give him away.

Two goals in three games for Nashville. Who wants to bet against him getting 10 this year, playing next to Hany Mukhtar.

Got rid of Poz, so no one to feed him, I guess...

We're a shambles of football belief systems masquerading as fact.

I’m still holding out for the time that things come together better than they have under Bob, but putting Shaf at the back like that set off alarm bells all over the place. The kid was maybe not the fastest learner to begin with and he is not suited at all to being a defender.

The hope of sticking with him as a winger as we did for three seasons was to allow him to mature and become more secure at his natural position while increasing the scope of what he can do there. Throwing him in at the back was crass. Thankfully he showed enough promise with us previously that it didn’t ruin his career.

As for Poz, he was also used poorly by Bob. Vanney had a different idea of Pozuelo than Genk did but it worked. Bob didn’t seem to understand what he was about.

[ag futbol]

As for Poz, he was also used poorly by Bob. Vanney had a different idea of Pozuelo than Genk did but it worked. Bob didn’t seem to understand what he was about.
I don’t think Bob cared. It was all about readying everyone to play the system that would be in place when the Italians arrived.

[los sonadores]

I don’t think Bob cared. It was all about readying everyone to play the system that would be in place when the Italians arrived.

Getting our inadequate roster to do that really well was unlikely.

If I’m to be totally honest, I’d say the thing that stands out so far about the Bob regime is wastefulness. I’m not talking about salary budget but player potential. Watching football is pleasurable because players with talent find themselves in a situation (a club) that allow them to shine. We’ve been pretty fucking dull so far.

I want to see what a half season with his preferred roster looks like. Let’s hope to god/the gods that we stay healthy enough to actually see that.

edit: ‘become’ healthy enough. three matches into the season and we’re already playing two kids with zero experience in pressure situations.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW... Is there any validity to this post?

https://twitter.com/MasryKora/status/1635084767220871168

[Ultra & Proud]

FWIW... Is there any validity to this post?

https://twitter.com/MasryKora/status/1635084767220871168

I will only say maybe because Bob's MO is to recycle old players of his through his newer clubs.

[Red CB Toronto]

I will only say maybe because Bob's MO is to recycle old players of his through his newer clubs.

Do not think he ever coached either of this players in the past, likely just using his connections as the tweets mention. With the shape TFC's budgets are right now, they likely are looking for value. Anyone have insight into salaries in a league like Egypt?

[NK Toronto]

Magdy is 27 years old, plays as an attacking midfielder, and has a transfermarket value of 1.8 million Euros. He also plays for the Egyptian national team.

[Areathrasher]

From a quick gander/google they appear to be wingers/AMs. So back ups to Insigne and Bernie? Give the cap and international spot situations I don't think this is a flyer. Probably some papertalk from Cairo.

[NK Toronto]

Abdelkader is 23, plays as a winger and AM, and has a transfermarket value of 800K Euros. He doesn't seem to play for the Egyptian NT.

His contract expires in June 2023 while Magdy's expires in June 2024. It seems that Magdy is the more influential player.

I can't see TFC pursuing any player where a transfer fee is involved so I would be surprised if anything happens with Magdy.

If there is truth to these rumours then it speaks volumes about the current state of our midfield and is an admission that the MAK trade has not worked out.

[NK Toronto]

From a quick gander/google they appear to be wingers/AMs. So back ups to Insigne and Bernie? Give the cap and international spot situations I don't think this is a flyer. Probably some papertalk from Cairo.

I don't think these guys would be brought in to be back ups. TFC is not going to pay a mid to high six figure salary and use an international spot for a backup. If they come it will be as a replacement.

[Areathrasher]

I don't think these guys would be brought in to be back ups. TFC is not going to pay a mid to high six figure salary and use an international spot for a backup. If they come it will be as a replacement.

Pretty much. That's why, to me at least, it doesn't make sense.

[JoesphNdo]

Seems to be an account with 110 followers. Not exactly a credible or interesting source

[ag futbol]

Getting our inadequate roster to do that really well was unlikely.

If I’m to be totally honest, I’d say the thing that stands out so far about the Bob regime is wastefulness. I’m not talking about salary budget but player potential. Watching football is pleasurable because players with talent find themselves in a situation (a club) that allow them to shine. We’ve been pretty fucking dull so far.

I want to see what a half season with his preferred roster looks like. Let’s hope to god/the gods that we stay healthy enough to actually see that.

edit: ‘become’ healthy enough. three matches into the season and we’re already playing two kids with zero experience in pressure situations.
Agreed, it was unlikely but still feel like he tried anyway.

I’d say the salary / budget situation has been wasteful. Paying JJ to play for Dallas. Paid top dollar for Kaye. Gave Akinola u-22 money. Sent Auro away while having worse players on our roster. Traded Shaff for magic beans. The closest thing to a value signing is MacNaughton and I’d give that effort 6/10.

[Yuushalinsky]

This one doesn't make sense to me if we shipped out the Shaff because he was never going to see play time thanks to Insigne - both play AM/LF, so unless we've suddenly decided an AM is in the cards...

[Areathrasher]

Seems to be an account with 110 followers. Not exactly a credible or interesting source

I'd wager the original source is in Arabic somewhere but good luck tracking that down.

[Kamp Berg]

An AM/winger? Like Poz basically?
I really can’t understand what the game plan is with the roster anymore. It seems like BB picks players with an idea in mind, but that the idea in his mind doesn’t match with the reality of the players skill. Like he thinks he sees things no one else does. I can’t see him making any changes that will save the situation at this point. Overconfidence seems to be TFC’s legacy since 2017.

[portu]

I'm so pissed off about Shaffelburg. So pissed.

It sums up everything that isn't working with the current regime.

He won't be moulded into being a defender when he's clearly an attacker so Bradley just gets rid of him, we give him away.

Two goals in three games for Nashville. Who wants to bet against him getting 10 this year, playing next to Hany Mukhtar.

Got rid of Poz, so no one to feed him, I guess...

We're a shambles of football belief systems masquerading as fact.
I’m less pissed about Shaff, just because realistically he’d be garbage for us. He needs confidence and solid minutes to develop and play well. He was never going to get that here. Moving him was right, we can argue over the figure though.

[jloome]

He was never going to get that here.

He'd have been our starting left-winger for the last two weeks.

People seem to think those of us who wanted him to stay are overlooking playing time or something. But Insigne is 31 and has a recent injury history. Some of us fully expected him to get injured, and that we would need capable backup -- and late relief, regularly, at the least.

(Plus we have leagues cup now, and the Voyageurs cup. He'd have had plenty of playing time.)

What really happened is our manager didn't see value in him, and probably disliked his attitude for not wanting to become a fullback. I'd say Shaff came out of this just fine. The only side that lost out was TFC.

[ensco]

I came into this season with an open, optimistic mind.

We should be 0-3, everybody here knows it. Even that would be OK, you can be 0-3 and unlucky.

We do not look like a good team, the flow of play, our body language, it is all 100% wrong.

I don’t really care why, and I am not interested in the advanced stats arguments used to defend Bob. It isn’t working. There is a malaise around this team, last year, this year. We can all speculate as to why, I have stated my theory before, but really, who cares?

It is the manager who must fix it or go. Soon.

[NK Toronto]

I came into this season with an open, optimistic mind.

We should be 0-3, everybody here knows it. Even that would be OK, you can be 0-3 and unlucky.

We do not look like a good team, the flow of play, our body language, it is all 100% wrong.

I don’t really care why, and I am not interested in the advanced stats arguments used to defend Bob. It isn’t working. There is a malaise around this team, last year, this year. We can all speculate as to why, I have stated my theory before, but really, who cares?

It is the manager who must fix it or go. Soon.

Yup, you are right the manager is largely to blame. However in the history of this club we have had so many managers come and go, but only one was successful. Given the track record of Bill Manning in hiring managers do you trust him enough to let him make this hire? I don't.

If I were ownership I would be more inclined to let this season play out and see what happens. If it is another lost season then at the end of the year you do a total house clean including Manning and both Bradley's. You then bring in an experienced sporting director with a proven track record and allow this person to hire his own manager and rebuild the club.

[OgtheDim]

I came into this season with an open, optimistic mind.

We should be 0-3, everybody here knows it.


Going to disagree here.

We should actually be 1 win & 2 draws. 10 minutes of "MLS late game insanity" is what is between us & that result. As for the hanging on for a point doesn't deserve a point theory - how many times have we NOT gotten those results in the past?

Is our midfield good enough?

No - I think MB is a bad influence on this team & should be replaced - his leadership approach & everything having to start through him is a problem.


Does our attack have issues?

If the midfield doesn't help, yes.

Is our defence solid?

Yes, and I stand by what I say when I say it is the best organized I have ever seen it.


Are we great? Heck no.

We are by no means crap.

[MikeForbes]

We are a middle of the pack team. I am starting to become concerned about our manager however.

[Ultra & Proud]

We should actually be 1 win & 2 draws.
Are we great? Heck no.

We are by no means crap.

I say we should be 1-1-1.

Should have beaten DC barring that ridiculous collapse. Should have lost at Atlanta with that offside although defensively we played well and we should have drawn the Crew as we did.

Are we crap? No.

Are we mediocre? Yes and we are paying a lot of money to be that and have high priced players who expect to be more than that.

[buddies]

I don't put much weight into the first three games. Sure it would've been great to have won all three but two of the first three were in pretty cold weather while the other one was on artificial turf. Not making excuses but it's too early to tell how our season is going to go. There wasn't a single player on Saturday on either side of the pitch that didn't feck up. Osorio did the hard part and didn't finish. Berna missed one. Richie knocked it over the bar from the six yard line. Columbus hit the post and somehow missed a few sitters themselves. I watched the game over on Sunday and it was a pretty slow paced game. Even if we don't do great this season ... we're way better than that. Lets see how we play into April and see if we're any better on grass in normal playing temperatures with our first choice eleven on the pitch for a couple of games in a row. All three games that we've played so far have been shit. Shit by both teams and to be honest, there was absolutely no reason they should have played that game on Saturday. It should've been postponed. I froze my ass off down there. My hands and feet were like ice cubes. Running about in shorts trying to kick a brick in that weather had to be painful out there. Just ask our keeper who got hit on the back of the head with a lob and was down on the ground for a couple of minutes.

[ensco]

Going to disagree here.

We should actually be 1 win & 2 draws. 10 minutes of "MLS late game insanity" is what is between us & that result. As for the hanging on for a point doesn't deserve a point theory - how many times have we NOT gotten those results in the past?

Is our midfield good enough?

No - I think MB is a bad influence on this team & should be replaced - his leadership approach & everything having to start through him is a problem.


Does our attack have issues?

If the midfield doesn't help, yes.

Is our defence solid?

Yes, and I stand by what I say when I say it is the best organized I have ever seen it.


Are we great? Heck no.

We are by no means crap.

OK we should have got something from the DC game. But Atlanta and Columbus, there is no escaping the fact that both looked miles better than us.

We are by no means crap, but are playing like crap. We are being outplayed.

I don't see what you see at the back. Maybe it'll be there, it is not that I see a problem there. I see us getting opened up regularly. This has much to do with the MB problem.

There is no joy out there. Something is obviously missing.

[JoesphNdo]

Going to disagree here.

We should actually be 1 win & 2 draws. 10 minutes of "MLS late game insanity" is what is between us & that result. As for the hanging on for a point doesn't deserve a point theory - how many times have we NOT gotten those results in the past?

Is our midfield good enough?

No - I think MB is a bad influence on this team & should be replaced - his leadership approach & everything having to start through him is a problem.


Does our attack have issues?

If the midfield doesn't help, yes.

Is our defence solid?

Yes, and I stand by what I say when I say it is the best organized I have ever seen it.


Are we great? Heck no.

We are by no means crap.

I love the energy but come on, we've been outshot in all three games to a total of 43 to 18, and second best in all three games saved by luck, poor refereeing, bad misses and great goalkeeping. There's optimism, there's wild optimisn, and there's "Tfc should be 1 win and 2 draws on the season"

I think there's still some reason for optimism but let's not just invent a world we want to live in. People think we should have drawn with Columbus!? no neutral party would agree with that. They out shot us 17 - 7 and played us off the fucking park for 45 minutes.

Agree our defence is potentially good, though. I think I'd still take morrow, mavinga, moor and beitashore over it but it looks promising and is a real reason for optimism. Our defensive problems lie in mid field, but we do have absolutely huge problems in mid field

But our form is not "should be unbeaten start with one win and two draws" in this or any reality. It's "second best in three games for three, could easily have 0 points, but there's at least some signs that maybe some parts of the team may start working especially with insigne to come back"

[Oldtimer]

Reminder about what this thread is about...


For discussion of trades, rumours, and roster construction.

[reggie]

Michael Singh
@MichaelSingh94
·
20m
BREAKING: Toronto FC star Lorenzo Insigne, 31, will miss the next 3-4 matches, club confirms. The Italian had a setback on Friday, and a follow-up image over the weekend showed aggravation of the groin.

from we hope he can play saturday to out another month,its becoming a clown show

[TFC/Everton]

Too soon to declare Insigne a bust?

[SenorDingDong]

Too soon to declare Insigne a bust?

Yea too soon. Lets wait until July. I mean if has actually injured its unfortunate. Or if he is "injured" aka, waiting for the temps to rise before playing then that's not cool.

[JoesphNdo]

Too soon to declare Insigne a bust?

Given it's still not particularly unlikely that he wins MLS MVP, yes. Yes it is. It's one injury, everyone, calm down. Footballers get injured. The sky isn't falling. He'll be back, and if at all motivated, will be one of the leagues best players

[reggie]

Given it's still not particularly unlikely that he wins MLS MVP, yes. Yes it is. It's one injury, everyone, calm down. Footballers get injured. The sky isn't falling. He'll be back, and if at all motivated, will be one of the leagues best players

LI is a good player.but he is not a 14 mil player .5 to 7 mil range,but he helped manning reach his ST quota....MANNING MUST GO

[DinamoTFC]

Michael Singh
@MichaelSingh94
·
20m
BREAKING: Toronto FC star Lorenzo Insigne, 31, will miss the next 3-4 matches, club confirms. The Italian had a setback on Friday, and a follow-up image over the weekend showed aggravation of the groin.

from we hope he can play saturday to out another month,its becoming a clown show

Not surprised since you could tell on Insigne's face and demeanor vs DC that it was a significant strain when he went down. FO downplayed it for sure and kept updates until the last hour in order to sell tix.

[Ultra & Proud]

Too soon to declare Insigne a bust?
I said earlier Shaffelburg > Insigne and I'm sticking to it until I see otherwise.

[ManUtd4ever]

Sigh.

[OgtheDim]

Leach has a point

https://twitter.com/LeachCityNewsTO/status/1635714449603428385

[OgtheDim]

(Whispers)

"Just gotta work harder" internal leadership...

[MikeForbes]

Didn't we completely misdiagnose JMR's leg injury last year too?

[Ultra & Proud]

I will say this; Michael Bradley might be slow and getting old but that guy has held out injury free through all our physio debacles and poor training techniques. He's like an iron man.

[MikeForbes]

I will say this; Michael Bradley might be slow and getting old but that guy has held out injury free through all our physio debacles and poor training techniques. He's like an iron man.

Talk about his decline all you want, the guy is incredibly durable.

[portu]

He'd have been our starting left-winger for the last two weeks.

People seem to think those of us who wanted him to stay are overlooking playing time or something. But Insigne is 31 and has a recent injury history. Some of us fully expected him to get injured, and that we would need capable backup -- and late relief, regularly, at the least.

(Plus we have leagues cup now, and the Voyageurs cup. He'd have had plenty of playing time.)

What really happened is our manager didn't see value in him, and probably disliked his attitude for not wanting to become a fullback. I'd say Shaff came out of this just fine. The only side that lost out was TFC.
But he was literally never going to be able to play himself into a consistent starting role and that was the problem. Spot starting and subbing garbage minutes at this point in his career isn't going to have him performing or progressing to the level we know he has.

[Yohan]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1635747669091012611

https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-fc-acquire-defender-cristian-gutierrez

[portu]

Guttierez looks a good bit of depth, nice stuff

[barticusz]

Bradley has been incredible for this club. Do we need a replacement and backup option sure, but kudos to him for continuing to hold his own at his age and for being as duable as he has been.

Insigne injury is a major disappointment but I would not say Shaff is better than him. In hindsight it would be great to still have him on the roster but I also see the benefits of him getting regular minutes in terms of how that supports the national team. Not great for us but overall a postive development. Same goes for Jayden Nelson and Petrasso, I wish them nothign but the best and this creates more opportunity for the youngers kids to STEP UP. That's what we need from them right now.

[gracos]

I like this signing however I wonder where Bob sees Cristian playing on LB or LM, as a depth signing i think this is certainly a good pickup

[Amir.]

Good signing for depth and to compete with Petretta and Franklin...if he can play CM like his brother it gets even more interesting

[los sonadores]

Okay, a much needed depth signing before the summer window like a fully functioning club. Good sign.

[MikeForbes]

Discount depth. He looked like a decent player a couple years ago.

[jloome]

Necessary. I imagine they'll push Petretta up?

[Areathrasher]

Has any other team ever made two waiver signings in one season?

[rydermike]

Has any other team ever made two waiver signings in one season?
I'm sure a team has, but I don't consider the Diomande waiver pickup a true waiver pickup. That was just another dumb MLS rules thing. He'd been out of the league since 2020 and his contract was over and played for other clubs in the world. LAFC just randomly still had his MLS rights.

[NK Toronto]

Has any other team ever made two waiver signings in one season?

Am I the only one who thinks this signing was made for no other reason then to divert attention to what is happening with Insigne? Given the current roster there are more pressing needs rather than another defender, like in midfield, unless Petretta is also gone for a month.

[ManUtd4ever]

Nice acquisition. It will help fill gaps in the lineup.

[ensco]

In 2020, if you spent time in the Vs forum, you would have seen that there was a big excitement about Gutierrez declaring for Canada, and about how he slotted in. Adekugbe wans't even in the conversation.

We all know how that went... but not so long ago this guy was a serious prospect.

[Smokecell]

Am I the only one who thinks this signing was made for no other reason then to divert attention to what is happening with Insigne? Given the current roster there are more pressing needs rather than another defender, like in midfield, unless Petretta is also gone for a month.

I don't think Cristian Gutierrez is a name you bring in to divert attention...

This is an interesting move to say the least. Curious as to why the 'Caps let him go.

[ag futbol]

Insigne injury is a major disappointment but I would not say Shaff is better than him.
I think really this reads as Mukhtar > Insigne. Shaff doing his job fitting in within a well rounded team that’s helping him showcase his talents.

[NK Toronto]

I don't think Cristian Gutierrez is a name you bring in to divert attention...

This is an interesting move to say the least. Curious as to why the 'Caps let him go.

Well we, the diehards, seem to be talking about it, and everybody seems to like this pick up.

[ag futbol]

This is probably a lazy analysis but my observation from watching Gutierrez is that consistency is an issue. But I see zero downside to adding mid 20’s experienced MLS player. We just needed a few more of those on the roster.

[boozilla]

Insigne makes $390K CAD a week and now has a 1.5M groin strain.

[rydermike]

I don't think Cristian Gutierrez is a name you bring in to divert attention...

This is an interesting move to say the least. Curious as to why the 'Caps let him go.

The Caps fazed him out last season. Demoted him to the MLSNP team and never had him return. Basically what we did to Kadin Chung

[los sonadores]

Am I the only one who thinks this signing was made for no other reason then to divert attention to what is happening with Insigne? Given the current roster there are more pressing needs rather than another defender, like in midfield, unless Petretta is also gone for a month.

He can play in the midfield. But otherwise we have exactly two fullbacks who have experience. A young, inexpensive fullback with quite a few matches in MLS and in Chile is what we need no matter Petretta’s current state.

[OgtheDim]

He can play in the midfield. But otherwise we have exactly two fullbacks who have experience. A young, inexpensive fullback with quite a few matches in MLS and in Chile is what we need no matter Petretta’s current state.

OK, this makes sense.

[los sonadores]

The Caps fazed him out last season. Demoted him to the MLSNP team and never had him return. Basically what we did to Kadin Chung

True but Chung was poor in every appearance I saw, and has only 8 MLS appearances total. He didn’t look this level at all. Maybe he’ll do better in Vancouver.

Gutierrez has over 100 appearances with Colo-Colo and the Whitecaps, etc. It’s a bit different. He had a falling out with their manager about how he was handing his injury last year. I think he can play. I like him as inexpensive young-ish depth at LB and LM

[ensco]

It’s interesting to me that Bob picked a guy well known to the CMNT veterans -Oso, Laryea, Kaye have all been in a lot of camps with him.

That input has to have been his best read on Gutierrez, and a key source (the key source?) of willingness to do this.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Necessary. I imagine they'll push Petretta up?

I think this could be a reasonable short-term solution to the situation. IIRC, as a LB, Petretta does seem to enjoy pushing forward, the attack, on occasion; even cutting in and giving a go. I suspect he would also provide easy linkage with/service to Fede. On the other hand, really hoping that the Gutierrez acquisition has not been made due to a significant injury to Petretta; more as his immediate replacement?

[Mr. Inbetween]

Do not think he ever coached either of this players in the past, likely just using his connections as the tweets mention. With the shape TFC's budgets are right now, they likely are looking for value. Anyone have insight into salaries in a league like Egypt?


Seems to be an account with 110 followers. Not exactly a credible or interesting source


I'd wager the original source is in Arabic somewhere but good luck tracking that down.

Concede that the validity of the rumour of TFC's interest in Al Ahly's Mohamed Magdy and Ahmed Abdelkader for this summer's transfer window is highly questionable; probably fiction. Still, IIUC, there is a loose link or maybe reasonable connect between BB and Al Ahly. Seems, the clubs Vice-President, El Amry Farouk, was Egypt's Minister Of State For Sports during BB's latter time as Coach of the EMNT.

[jloome]

Concede that the validity of the rumour of TFC's interest in Al Ahly's Mohamed Magdy and Ahmed Abdelkader for this summer's transfer window is highly questionable; probably fiction. Still, IIUC, there is a loose link or maybe reasonable connect between BB and Al Ahly. Seems, the clubs Vice-President, El Amry Farouk, was Egypt's Minister Of State For Sports during BB's latter time as Coach of the EMNT.

I suspect given that he was looking at two players from Ghana as well that he is trolling for bargains in advance of us having some money to spend again. They may also be looking at players for when their contacts expire, rather than being willing to pony up transfer money now.

[Mr. Inbetween]

FWIW...

https://twitter.com/Total_TFC/status/1636240712793571330

https://twitter.com/Total_TFC/status/1636240717352673280

[Mr. Inbetween]

Is it me or does Ahmed Abdelkader look older than Afsha? Like in early 30's older?

[ag futbol]

https://twitter.com/ManuelVeth/status/1636379994552430595
Depth signing it would appear

[Yuushalinsky]

https://twitter.com/ManuelVeth/status/1636379994552430595
Depth signing it would appear

Don't hate it - more warm bodies is good, though he hasn't gotten much playtime even with Valour. Hoping to see him blossom here though we've squandered a lot of Next Pro talent.

[jloome]

Jimenez got his P1 visa and is now in Dallas. I imagine ditto with Achara in Houston. Neither here nor there now, I suppose.

Also, Noble Okello officially signs with New England II in MLS Next Pro.

[Yuushalinsky]

well looks like we're losing...

three of our starting 11 for San Jose.

[jloome]

well looks like we're losing...

three of our starting 11 for San Jose.

So penny ante, the league not having an international window weekend. The list of players missing from some teams is very long. Atlanta's missing more than half their starting lineup.

[OgtheDim]

We always lose in San Jose in some ridiculous way so it will be nice to go in there expecting absolutely nothing.

[MikeForbes]

I mean, losing Kaye out of the midfield wouldn't exactly be the worst thing based on current form. Bradley/Servania/Kosi for a game won't be the end of the world. Not sure Bob trusts our backup options at RB though. Neither JMR or Kobe have seen a single minute this season.

[Red CB Toronto]

I mean, losing Kaye out of the midfield wouldn't exactly be the worst thing based on current form. Bradley/Servania/Kosi for a game won't be the end of the world. Not sure Bob trusts our backup options at RB though. Neither JMR or Kobe have seen a single minute this season.

Kobe subbed in last game, for his second MLS appearance.

[MikeForbes]

Kobe subbed in last game, for his second MLS appearance.

Ah, yes. Forgot he came on. Them bringing on Kobe over JMR really speaks volumes though considering this time last year everyone was talking about him signing with Arsenal or Liverpool.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Roster depth? Not like that need was not to be expected just from a CMNT perspective; particularly with the congested season. Imagine if the Italians were called up?

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1636450103916371972

https://twitter.com/canplnews/status/1636480709010309121

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I absolutely hate that MLS does too many important things differently than the world's established football community. (Established = leagues/competitions existing for at least 50 years.)
See for example this no break in the competition in international matches' windows.

Until shit like this continues to happen how the heck can be this considered a serious competition?

In a serious competition each and every match's outcome counts exactly in the same way in the whole balance of the full season. One point lost or won in the very first match of the whole season counts exactly as a point won or lost in the last match of the whole season.
But MLS has a totally different mindset regarding even this aspect.

[Ultra & Proud]

I absolutely hate that MLS does too many important things differently than the world's established football community. (Established = leagues/competitions existing for at least 50 years.)
See for example this no break in the competition in international matches' windows.

Until shit like this continues to happen how the heck can be this considered a serious competition?

In a serious competition each and every match's outcome counts exactly in the same way in the whole balance of the full season. One point lost or won in the very first match of the whole season counts exactly as a point won or lost in the last match of the whole season.
But MLS has a totally different mindset regarding even this aspect.

I don't like ignoring the international breaks either but during the next one check Flashscore and you'll see a bunch of Euro leagues with matches, sometimes the Championship & FA Cup too. In this case it's not the usual MLS are idiots rule but on the other hand international call ups also hurt us more than the Championship.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Ok. Is this interesting?

https://twitter.com/BarcaNotes/status/1636764247278362629

[Yuushalinsky]

Ok. Is this interesting?

https://twitter.com/BarcaNotes/status/1636764247278362629

The original source looks reputable but if we think replacing 35 year old Bradley with Busquets is going to fix anything...

[MikeForbes]

Biscuits (this is what my phone assumed his name was) is hardly the answer for an old and slow midfield.

[TheGoodson]

Could the midfield get any slower… I honestly think TFC is being used to drive up the price

2hrs ago that guy posted an update and didn’t mention Toronto

[Canary10]

Could the midfield get any slower… I honestly think TFC is being used to drive up the price

2hrs ago that guy posted an update and didn’t mention Toronto

At this point I would honestly take a kid who is quick, has an engine and can tackle/break up plays. Passing ability would be nice but not necessary.