PDA

View Full Version : Supporter's thoughts on the BMO/NSS/Argos situation -- video



Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAdBpYobZlU

QAdBpYobZlU

I've decided to use my camera for good this time.
Here's a bunch of people weighing in their opinions
on the potential changes to our National Soccer Stadium.

If you want to pass the video around elsewhere, go right ahead.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:34 AM
Why is it that it tells me the imbedded video is no longer available when it's playing behind a semi transparent darkness?

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't code the thing - maybe a work blocker?

Just follow the link.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Can't watch Youtube at work, but the embedded ones usually work. No matter, I can kind of see it and can hear it fine. Just that there's like a semi transparent dark screen over it.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
it's really just about dialog anyway. You know what you look like.


oh... and if there's anyone who wants to post this on the NEE / Usex / Ultras / Etc. boards... please do so. I don't have accounts everywhere else.

adampz
08-07-2008, 11:19 AM
Great video, keep em coming

Pigfynn
08-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Very well done. It's constructive, as well as a true representation of the supporters point of view.

CenturySam
08-07-2008, 11:56 AM
Great Video

EdTheRed
08-07-2008, 11:58 AM
Excellent video...though over at MLS Rumors Rumors, we've heard that the Argos are the least of your worries (http://mlsrumorsrumors.blogspot.com/2008/08/moving-buffalo-bills-to-bmo-field.html)...;)

loconet
08-07-2008, 12:21 PM
Excellent video...though over at MLS Rumors Rumors, we've heard that the Argos are the least of your worries (http://mlsrumorsrumors.blogspot.com/2008/08/moving-buffalo-bills-to-bmo-field.html)...;)



Of course, they'll have to change the team name. Right now, they're planning to change it to "Toronto Bills FC"...of course, this means that TFC will have to change their name to "Toronto Soccer Club," to avoid confusion.............
AHHAHAH. Holy shit I would fucking go on a rampage if that ever happens..

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Excellent video...though over at MLS Rumors Rumors, we've heard that the Argos are the least of your worries (http://mlsrumorsrumors.blogspot.com/2008/08/moving-buffalo-bills-to-bmo-field.html)...;)


sweet. I can't wait to see the X-games at Bmo.:cool:

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 02:07 PM
bumpers now that the forum is acting normal again.

Hooligan69
08-07-2008, 02:13 PM
Youtube embedding seems to be all messed up today because videos won't play for me.

nascarguy
08-07-2008, 03:32 PM
it works for me

james
08-08-2008, 10:45 AM
to be honest i dont think its bad for the Argos. I think if they move to BMO field the atmosphere at Argos games would be much better and more Argo fans who often stay at home and watch on TV because the Sky Dome is kind of shitty would all of a sudden want to come out and buy tickets and be part of the atmosphere. But with the smaller 25,000-30,000 seats it would make Argo tickets a hot item and hard to get.


But as a TFC fan and a fan of the Canadian National Team its very bad with the turf issues, CFL lines all over the field and the fact that many players including the National team dont like to play on turf.

Parkdale
08-08-2008, 10:51 AM
I think it would be bad for the fans.

they are used to have very efficient concession stands, and generally shorter line ups for things like ATM's and washrooms. Even the most positive TFC fan will tell your that the stadium setup needs improvement. If there were an additional 5000, or even 3000 seats, then they would need to do a SERIOUS reworking of the stadium to make things run efficiently. I think that after being in an established sports stadium like the Dome, coming to BMO would be incredibly frustrating for the fans.

alexintoronto
08-08-2008, 10:53 AM
Honestly, I think the Argos are screwing the fan base by moving out of SkyDome - ticket prices are sure to go up.

Parkdale wtf man. Why didn't you interview me? Is your so called "video" too good for us little people?

Roogsy
08-08-2008, 10:53 AM
I think it would be bad for the fans.

they are used to have very efficient concession stands, and generally shorter line ups for things like ATM's and washrooms. Even the most positive TFC fan will tell your that the stadium setup needs improvement. If there were an additional 5000, or even 3000 seats, then they would need to do a SERIOUS reworking of the stadium to make things run efficiently. I think that after being in an established sports stadium like the Dome, coming to BMO would be incredibly frustrating for the fans.

Absolutely totally agree.

The stadium as it is barely handles the 20k fans. Add 50% and you have mayhem.

Parkdale
08-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Parkdale wtf man. Why didn't you interview me? Is your so called "video" too good for us little people?

sorry man, but I had already met my 'Hawaiian Shirt Quota' for the day.

james
08-08-2008, 11:00 AM
i dont know how many millions of dollars the Argos are willing to put into the construction exspansion but that may include adding more concession stands and all.

TFC+Argos4Life
08-09-2008, 12:54 AM
I enjoyed the video, most people stated their concerns in a civil and clear manner. The dipshit who based his argument on “it’s ours, we own it” ought to check his facts, though.

It seems like the biggest concerns are moving the seats back permanently and putting gridiron lines on the soccer pitch. That’s good, because THESE ARE, AND ALWAYS WERE, MYTHS MEANT TO SCARE UP SUPPORT FOR THE PROTEST!!!

No source has ever come out saying this would be part of any plan. Even CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, who along with David Miller are probably the biggest supporters of the move (even moreso than the Argos themselves), has always maintained that the seats would have to be movable for any deal.

No one’s commented on the pitch situation yet. My theory is that the field in the renovated facility will have a bottom layer of CFL fieldturf, and pallets or skids with REAL GRASS will be brought in for TFC and MNT games.

This will bring MLSE and CSA on board (Another 5-10k seats and real grass would be too much to pass up), and will also appease all of the supporters. Everyone will hug, kiss, and cuddle, and shovels will go into the ground.

Clearly, any of you who still bitch and moan about this deal with messages of “it’s ours, it hurts our feelings to have football played here, we’re greedy and want it all to ourselves, waaa waaa waaa” would be ignored by all parties.

I wouldn’t toot the “Soccer Specific Stadium” argument too much. In the US, MLS is trying to avoid multipurpose facilities because down there, “multipurpose” means you share the facility with an MLB team (40k+ seats aligned to watch a game on a diamond) or an NCAA or NFL team (75k+ seats with permanent football lines on a field to narrow for proper soccer sidelines).

CFL stadiums are ideally in the 25-30k range, perfect for TFC. The width of a Canadian football field is identical to that of a soccer pitch. With the exception of the corners in soccer stadiums, the sightlines of the sports can easily be accommodated (unlike soccer and baseball). “Multipurpose” with the CFL certainly means something different than what Garber believes.

As to the whole “Bills will eat the Argos alive” comment, Ted Rogers still has 20k seats for his first preseason game left unsold, despite several discounts and attempts at repackaging the deals. The ticket prices are so high because he has to break even on that $78M cheque he wrote to Ralph Wilson and the Bills. All signs say he’s set to take a bath on this deal, and he’d be crazy not to be rethinking the level of interest in NFL football in the GTA. Not when he’d have to come up with $2B up front to buy the team and build himself a stadium.

Besides, Ralph Wilson already went behind his back and declared Southern Ontario “Buffalo Bills territory”. Seeing as there are lineups of rich American guys looking to buy the team, Buffalo politicians taking up the fight, and the NFL commissioner being from and having family in… that’s right… BUFFALO, that team is going nowhere, and as long as it’s there, there will be no expansion teams moving into “Buffalo Bills territory”.

On the bright side, CFL ratings on TSN are up 21% over last year. That’s 21% higher than last year’s already astronomical numbers of around 400k viewers per game, easily the highest ratings of any non-hockey sport. New stadiums or significant renovations are on the table in BC, Saskatchewan, TORONTO, and Hamilton. Ottawa is in good shape to re-enter the league, and there’s renewed talk of expansion to the Maritimes (along with some subtle rumblings out of football-crazy Quebec City).

Bottom line, not only is CFL football not going anywhere, but it’s financially better off than it’s been in nearly 30 years.

So right now, while Mayor Miller, MLSE, and the Argos keep smiling with their mouths shut, their accountants are behind the scenes trying to make the numbers work. If all the columns balance and everybody’s happy, get ready to welcome your new roomie at merry ol’ BMO Field!!!

TFC *clap clap clap* TFC!!!
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

wisnae me
08-09-2008, 12:43 PM
Bottom line, not only is CFL football not going anywhere, but it’s financially better off than it’s been in nearly 30 years.


If this is the case, why is the Toronto CFL franchise unable to secure its future without riding the coattails of an entity only 18 months into its own existence?

Surely if the CFL is such a big draw, it would be easy to obtain the funding for a new facility.

LucaGol
08-09-2008, 01:11 PM
I enjoyed the video, most people stated their concerns in a civil and clear manner. The dipshit who based his argument on “it’s ours, we own it” ought to check his facts, though.

It seems like the biggest concerns are moving the seats back permanently and putting gridiron lines on the soccer pitch. That’s good, because THESE ARE, AND ALWAYS WERE, MYTHS MEANT TO SCARE UP SUPPORT FOR THE PROTEST!!!

No source has ever come out saying this would be part of any plan. Even CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, who along with David Miller are probably the biggest supporters of the move (even moreso than the Argos themselves), has always maintained that the seats would have to be movable for any deal.

No one’s commented on the pitch situation yet. My theory is that the field in the renovated facility will have a bottom layer of CFL fieldturf, and pallets or skids with REAL GRASS will be brought in for TFC and MNT games.

This will bring MLSE and CSA on board (Another 5-10k seats and real grass would be too much to pass up), and will also appease all of the supporters. Everyone will hug, kiss, and cuddle, and shovels will go into the ground.

Clearly, any of you who still bitch and moan about this deal with messages of “it’s ours, it hurts our feelings to have football played here, we’re greedy and want it all to ourselves, waaa waaa waaa” would be ignored by all parties.

I wouldn’t toot the “Soccer Specific Stadium” argument too much. In the US, MLS is trying to avoid multipurpose facilities because down there, “multipurpose” means you share the facility with an MLB team (40k+ seats aligned to watch a game on a diamond) or an NCAA or NFL team (75k+ seats with permanent football lines on a field to narrow for proper soccer sidelines).

CFL stadiums are ideally in the 25-30k range, perfect for TFC. The width of a Canadian football field is identical to that of a soccer pitch. With the exception of the corners in soccer stadiums, the sightlines of the sports can easily be accommodated (unlike soccer and baseball). “Multipurpose” with the CFL certainly means something different than what Garber believes.

As to the whole “Bills will eat the Argos alive” comment, Ted Rogers still has 20k seats for his first preseason game left unsold, despite several discounts and attempts at repackaging the deals. The ticket prices are so high because he has to break even on that $78M cheque he wrote to Ralph Wilson and the Bills. All signs say he’s set to take a bath on this deal, and he’d be crazy not to be rethinking the level of interest in NFL football in the GTA. Not when he’d have to come up with $2B up front to buy the team and build himself a stadium.

Besides, Ralph Wilson already went behind his back and declared Southern Ontario “Buffalo Bills territory”. Seeing as there are lineups of rich American guys looking to buy the team, Buffalo politicians taking up the fight, and the NFL commissioner being from and having family in… that’s right… BUFFALO, that team is going nowhere, and as long as it’s there, there will be no expansion teams moving into “Buffalo Bills territory”.

On the bright side, CFL ratings on TSN are up 21% over last year. That’s 21% higher than last year’s already astronomical numbers of around 400k viewers per game, easily the highest ratings of any non-hockey sport. New stadiums or significant renovations are on the table in BC, Saskatchewan, TORONTO, and Hamilton. Ottawa is in good shape to re-enter the league, and there’s renewed talk of expansion to the Maritimes (along with some subtle rumblings out of football-crazy Quebec City).

Bottom line, not only is CFL football not going anywhere, but it’s financially better off than it’s been in nearly 30 years.

So right now, while Mayor Miller, MLSE, and the Argos keep smiling with their mouths shut, their accountants are behind the scenes trying to make the numbers work. If all the columns balance and everybody’s happy, get ready to welcome your new roomie at merry ol’ BMO Field!!!

TFC *clap clap clap* TFC!!!
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!!!


And what about the ambience of the stadium....the logos you see around the field...the merchandise shops.

Why should I have to walk into the National Soccer Stadium of Canada...to watch the #1 sport in the world...watched by billions of people... and see Argos logos all over the place?

That's question #1....question #2 is....playing on skids of grass is no better than playing on the field turf we have now....and do you know why...because it's not natural....it's not the true surface. We'll be in the same mess we're in now.

And what about scheduling?....Where are TFC to practice?....do we have to wait for the Argos to vacate the field?...the weight room?...the lounges before they can go in there? Don't tell me there won't be conflicts....conflicts negatively affecting both teams.

Lastly...what on earth do the Argos have to gain here?....Intimacy?....is that really worth pissing off so many people when the facility they have right now suits there needs a lot better.

Sure your arguments seem rational...but they're only rational in your own head because you don't know what true football is....true passion. You haven't listened to one word any of us have said...you just keep going on as if your nonsensical ramblings will convince us that you actually have any sort of point. Your smugness is actually repulsive....

BMO Field is already a borderline bad soccer facility...we should be trying to improve it, by making it more soccer specific and intimate....not less.


As for Parkdale....you're my hero.

James Oliphant
08-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Oskie-fucking-wee-wee.

TFC+Argos4Life
08-09-2008, 04:31 PM
If this is the case, why is the Toronto CFL franchise unable to secure its future without riding the coattails of an entity only 18 months into its own existence?

Surely if the CFL is such a big draw, it would be easy to obtain the funding for a new facility.

Because CFL teams play only 10 home dates per year, it makes much more sense to have the teams play in stadiums that have other uses. Most CFL stadiums are shared with junior and CIS teams, with BC Place and Skydome having the most alternate uses (Blue Jays, Olympics, trade shows, etc.)

NFL teams play less home dates, but the $100M per team each year in TV money allows them to be a little more frivolous.

TFC+Argos4Life
08-09-2008, 04:47 PM
And what about the ambience of the stadium....the logos you see around the field...the merchandise shops.

Why should I have to walk into the National Soccer Stadium of Canada...to watch the #1 sport in the world...watched by billions of people... and see Argos logos all over the place?

That's question #1....question #2 is....playing on skids of grass is no better than playing on the field turf we have now....and do you know why...because it's not natural....it's not the true surface. We'll be in the same mess we're in now.

And what about scheduling?....Where are TFC to practice?....do we have to wait for the Argos to vacate the field?...the weight room?...the lounges before they can go in there? Don't tell me there won't be conflicts....conflicts negatively affecting both teams.

Lastly...what on earth do the Argos have to gain here?....Intimacy?....is that really worth pissing off so many people when the facility they have right now suits there needs a lot better.

Sure your arguments seem rational...but they're only rational in your own head because you don't know what true football is....true passion. You haven't listened to one word any of us have said...you just keep going on as if your nonsensical ramblings will convince us that you actually have any sort of point. Your smugness is actually repulsive....

BMO Field is already a borderline bad soccer facility...we should be trying to improve it, by making it more soccer specific and intimate....not less.


As for Parkdale....you're my hero.

I'm not very moved by your "ambience" argument. The Argos don't have very many permanent logos around their current home, as you'd notice if you attended a Jays game. You've got no reason to believe they'd suddenly change their minds with BMO.

I have no idea what playing on this kind of real grass would be like (and neither do you, for the record) but I'm sure they'd design it to be an improvement for the players. Otherwise why bother?

Don't lose too much sleep over scheduling. The Argos have no scheduling conflicts with the Blue Jays, who require the dome over 80 times per year. Why would that change with TFC? Plus, all Argonaut practice facilities are in Mississauga, and I haven't read of any complaints from the team.

The Argonauts are in the best position to decide how best to fulfill their needs, so the move would only happen if they see it in their best interests. Pissing off a couple-dozen over-jealous TFC radicals is certainly far down on anyone's list of priorities.

I listened to every word you all said. Calling something irrational without explaining why is an indication of a lack of either understanding or argument (or both). Sorry to come across as smug... I'll try to work on it...

P.S.

It's "Soccer" in Canada, Australia, and the U.S.; not "Football". A national game called "Football" exists in each of those countries. Everyone should stop trying to be european (and drop the fake accents while you're at it) and be proud to be Canadian.

Flipityflu
08-09-2008, 05:13 PM
P.S.

It's "Soccer" in Canada, Australia, and the U.S.; not "Football". A national game called "Football" exists in each of those countries. Everyone should stop trying to be european (and drop the fake accents while you're at it) and be proud to be Canadian.

thanks for the lesson toth

James Oliphant
08-09-2008, 05:20 PM
Because CFL teams play only 10 home dates per year, it makes much more sense to have the teams play in stadiums that have other uses. Most CFL stadiums are shared with junior and CIS teams, with BC Place and Skydome having the most alternate uses (Blue Jays, Olympics, trade shows, etc.

I wonder why the Argos haven`t thought of hooking up with a CIS team before?

Oh wait...

MisterMacphisto
08-09-2008, 05:38 PM
Sorry to come across as smug... I'll try to work on it...

(And then he writes...:rolleyes:)

P.S.

It's "Soccer" in Canada, Australia, and the U.S.; not "Football". A national game called "Football" exists in each of those countries. Everyone should stop trying to be european (and drop the fake accents while you're at it) and be proud to be Canadian.

I think you should stop pretending your a TFC... or for you, TSC supporter.

Redcoe15
08-09-2008, 05:57 PM
I enjoyed the video, most people stated their concerns in a civil and clear manner. The dipshit who based his argument on “it’s ours, we own it” ought to check his facts, though.

It seems like the biggest concerns are moving the seats back permanently and putting gridiron lines on the soccer pitch. That’s good, because THESE ARE, AND ALWAYS WERE, MYTHS MEANT TO SCARE UP SUPPORT FOR THE PROTEST!!!

No source has ever come out saying this would be part of any plan. Even CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, who along with David Miller are probably the biggest supporters of the move (even moreso than the Argos themselves), has always maintained that the seats would have to be movable for any deal.

No one’s commented on the pitch situation yet. My theory is that the field in the renovated facility will have a bottom layer of CFL fieldturf, and pallets or skids with REAL GRASS will be brought in for TFC and MNT games.

This will bring MLSE and CSA on board (Another 5-10k seats and real grass would be too much to pass up), and will also appease all of the supporters. Everyone will hug, kiss, and cuddle, and shovels will go into the ground.

Clearly, any of you who still bitch and moan about this deal with messages of “it’s ours, it hurts our feelings to have football played here, we’re greedy and want it all to ourselves, waaa waaa waaa” would be ignored by all parties.

I wouldn’t toot the “Soccer Specific Stadium” argument too much. In the US, MLS is trying to avoid multipurpose facilities because down there, “multipurpose” means you share the facility with an MLB team (40k+ seats aligned to watch a game on a diamond) or an NCAA or NFL team (75k+ seats with permanent football lines on a field to narrow for proper soccer sidelines).

CFL stadiums are ideally in the 25-30k range, perfect for TFC. The width of a Canadian football field is identical to that of a soccer pitch. With the exception of the corners in soccer stadiums, the sightlines of the sports can easily be accommodated (unlike soccer and baseball). “Multipurpose” with the CFL certainly means something different than what Garber believes.

As to the whole “Bills will eat the Argos alive” comment, Ted Rogers still has 20k seats for his first preseason game left unsold, despite several discounts and attempts at repackaging the deals. The ticket prices are so high because he has to break even on that $78M cheque he wrote to Ralph Wilson and the Bills. All signs say he’s set to take a bath on this deal, and he’d be crazy not to be rethinking the level of interest in NFL football in the GTA. Not when he’d have to come up with $2B up front to buy the team and build himself a stadium.

Besides, Ralph Wilson already went behind his back and declared Southern Ontario “Buffalo Bills territory”. Seeing as there are lineups of rich American guys looking to buy the team, Buffalo politicians taking up the fight, and the NFL commissioner being from and having family in… that’s right… BUFFALO, that team is going nowhere, and as long as it’s there, there will be no expansion teams moving into “Buffalo Bills territory”.

On the bright side, CFL ratings on TSN are up 21% over last year. That’s 21% higher than last year’s already astronomical numbers of around 400k viewers per game, easily the highest ratings of any non-hockey sport. New stadiums or significant renovations are on the table in BC, Saskatchewan, TORONTO, and Hamilton. Ottawa is in good shape to re-enter the league, and there’s renewed talk of expansion to the Maritimes (along with some subtle rumblings out of football-crazy Quebec City).

Bottom line, not only is CFL football not going anywhere, but it’s financially better off than it’s been in nearly 30 years.

So right now, while Mayor Miller, MLSE, and the Argos keep smiling with their mouths shut, their accountants are behind the scenes trying to make the numbers work. If all the columns balance and everybody’s happy, get ready to welcome your new roomie at merry ol’ BMO Field!!!

TFC *clap clap clap* TFC!!!
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
:iamwithstupid: :rolleyes:

Only because there's no emoticom for retard!

AL-MO
08-09-2008, 06:25 PM
TFC+Argos4Life....

The Argos HAD their chance at an outdoor stadium but THEY pulled out of the York U deal. So the stadium has now been built and you want in now?

Fuck off. You are already in one taxpayer funded facility, no need to move to another.

This stadium was built to host the U20 tournament, for the National Team and TFC, not the Argos. They are just fine at the Dome. If you want to team up with a CIS Team, why not look at Varsity?

wisnae me
08-09-2008, 06:39 PM
Because CFL teams play only 10 home dates per year, it makes much more sense to have the teams play in stadiums that have other uses. Most CFL stadiums are shared with junior and CIS teams, with BC Place and Skydome having the most alternate uses (Blue Jays, Olympics, trade shows, etc.)

So what you are saying is that a CFL franchise is unable to be self sustaining.




It's "Soccer" in Canada, Australia, and the U.S.; not "Football". A national game called "Football" exists in each of those countries.

The term soccer is derived from Association Football, which predates your favoured game of bastardized rugby.
Quite frankly I couldn't care less what name is attached to the game in three countries, as the remaining six billion inhabitants of the planet embrace it as football.

rocker
08-09-2008, 07:01 PM
totally unrelated question... how many argos are in the olympics? ;)

LucaGol
08-09-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm not very moved by your "ambience" argument. The Argos don't have very many permanent logos around their current home, as you'd notice if you attended a Jays game. You've got no reason to believe they'd suddenly change their minds with BMO.

I have no idea what playing on this kind of real grass would be like (and neither do you, for the record) but I'm sure they'd design it to be an improvement for the players. Otherwise why bother?

Don't lose too much sleep over scheduling. The Argos have no scheduling conflicts with the Blue Jays, who require the dome over 80 times per year. Why would that change with TFC? Plus, all Argonaut practice facilities are in Mississauga, and I haven't read of any complaints from the team.

The Argonauts are in the best position to decide how best to fulfill their needs, so the move would only happen if they see it in their best interests. Pissing off a couple-dozen over-jealous TFC radicals is certainly far down on anyone's list of priorities.

I listened to every word you all said. Calling something irrational without explaining why is an indication of a lack of either understanding or argument (or both). Sorry to come across as smug... I'll try to work on it...

P.S.

It's "Soccer" in Canada, Australia, and the U.S.; not "Football". A national game called "Football" exists in each of those countries. Everyone should stop trying to be european (and drop the fake accents while you're at it) and be proud to be Canadian.

Cite me one example of a facility that has to constantly place, replace, remove "skids of grass" on a continual basis.

Your correct, Im not an expert on how this system might function...but trying to think about logically...I can't imagine it would be the ideal surface to play on. I can envision seams...uneveness....and most definitely...especially with the field turf underneath...unnatural bounces of the ball. I can envision tight schedules causing the expedient installation of these skids and sloppy jobs being performed. I can also envision poor grass quality.

Once again...Im not an expert...but the surface is not ideal. TFC already has a difficult enough time as it is proving the legitimacy of field turf to potential incoming players....imagine trying to prove the legitimacy of "skids of grass" as a proper playing surface.

Unlike throwball....football requires a pristine surface to play on for a proper game to be conducted.

p.s. As for your smugness......as a cab driver in Seinfeld once said...."Smugness is not a good quality"

CretanBull
08-09-2008, 08:25 PM
Well done Parky, that was great!

TFC+Argos4Life
08-10-2008, 01:51 AM
So what you are saying is that a CFL franchise is unable to be self sustaining.

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. The CFL is the oldest pro league in North America, and the franchises have been just as "self-sustaining" as any. Three of the teams are community owned, but none of them require enormous sums of money to remain in operation.

A CFL team could be the only tenant in a stadium, but it makes no sense to do so. Stadiums are expensive, and it's a terrible waste to have one sitting empty except for 10 home dates per year. In order to get more use out of the facilities, cities often have junior or CIS teams play there. In your definition, TFC isn't "self-sustaining" either, since the MNT is also a tenant as well as exhibition games by CSL teams as well as community events. Neither are the Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays "self-sustaining" according to you.

Bottom line: Does a CFL team need to share a stadium in order to remain afloat? No. Would it be stupid to have a CFL team be the only users of a multi-million dollar piece of infrastructure? Very much, yes.

Bars92
08-10-2008, 02:02 AM
Bottom line: soccer is a common game. No one gives a shit about american football.

Cashcleaner
08-10-2008, 02:05 AM
I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. The CFL is the oldest pro league in North America, and the franchises have been just as "self-sustaining" as any. Three of the teams are community owned, but none of them require enormous sums of money to remain in operation.

A CFL team could be the only tenant in a stadium, but it makes no sense to do so. Stadiums are expensive, and it's a terrible waste to have one sitting empty except for 10 home dates per year. In order to get more use out of the facilities, cities often have junior or CIS teams play there. In your definition, TFC isn't "self-sustaining" either, since the MNT is also a tenant as well as exhibition games by CSL teams as well as community events. Neither are the Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays "self-sustaining" according to you.

Bottom line: Does a CFL team need to share a stadium in order to remain afloat? No. Would it be stupid to have a CFL team be the only users of a multi-million dollar piece of infrastructure? Very much, yes.

While I agree that the concept of groundsharing isn't the end of the world in itself, I think you do have to realise that TFC already groundshare with other local organisations in addition to the CSA and OSA. Accomodating the Argonauts will not just affect Toronto FC, but also the various other soccer organisations that use the facility, most notably for it's soccer-specific facilities.

And Bars, your remark has as little bearing on the discussion as someone who would say... think the Argonauts deserve to move to BMO because they've been around here longest. Both arguments have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 02:09 AM
I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. The CFL is the oldest pro league in North America, and the franchises have been just as "self-sustaining" as any. Three of the teams are community owned, but none of them require enormous sums of money to remain in operation.

A CFL team could be the only tenant in a stadium, but it makes no sense to do so. Stadiums are expensive, and it's a terrible waste to have one sitting empty except for 10 home dates per year. In order to get more use out of the facilities, cities often have junior or CIS teams play there. In your definition, TFC isn't "self-sustaining" either, since the MNT is also a tenant as well as exhibition games by CSL teams as well as community events. Neither are the Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays "self-sustaining" according to you.

Bottom line: Does a CFL team need to share a stadium in order to remain afloat? No. Would it be stupid to have a CFL team be the only users of a multi-million dollar piece of infrastructure? Very much, yes.

The Argos aren't the only tenant in their CURRENT location. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Argos don't even pay rent for it.

The argument isn't about keeping TFC the only tenant at BMO - it's about keeping the stadium soccer-specific.

As others have pointed out, the Argos had a chance to get on board with a facility for both clubs, and pulled out when Ted Rogers offered them a good deal at SkyDome. This left MLSE footing the bill for approx. $13 million of the contruction cost, and the need to find another site. Now that they have seen what a great atmosphere BMO has been for Toronto FC, they want in.

Fuck that. This is our house. You had the chance to make it your house.

As for the "skids of grass" option - won't happen. Laying a proper grass football pitch isn't as simple as laying a basketball court over a hockey rink ala Air Canada Centre.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 02:13 AM
Bottom line: soccer is a common game. No one gives a shit about american football.

I give a shit about American Football. It is possible to enjoy multiple sports. Even ones that adopt sadly inept names for themselves.

I said it before, I'll say it again: The saddest part of this whole BMO/Argos saga, is that it is stoking the fires of all kinds of anti-CFL, anti-american football hate.

Football may be the beautiful game, but that doesn't mean other sports aren't at least pretty good looking.

- Scott

Cashcleaner
08-10-2008, 02:16 AM
^^ Laying down sod is doable for a single match or small tourney, but yeah, you'd need a pretty complex system in place to do it over and over again.

And I totally agree with your last post as well. Unfortunately there are more than enough idiots on both sides of the argument who want to drag the debate down to a stupid dick-measuring contest.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 02:22 AM
^^ Laying down sod is doable for a single match or small tourney, but yeah, you'd need a pretty complex system in place to do it over and over again.

And I totally agree with your last post as well. Unfortunately there are more than enough idiots on both sides of the argument who want to drag the debate down to a stupid dick-measuring contest.

Yeah, a couple of examples of laying sod temporarily for a football match would be the UEFA Champions League final this year, and the Barca/RBNY match from Wednesday.

- Scott

Cashcleaner
08-10-2008, 02:26 AM
^ Personally, I like the idea that some new stadiums have of a movable playing surface. The pitch slides out on rails to get some sun when its not in use and slides back for gameday.

Though, its probably incredibly expensive to install and maintain.

James Oliphant
08-10-2008, 02:29 AM
That and...there's no place to put it at the Ex.

Cashcleaner
08-10-2008, 02:51 AM
^ Not unless we feel like knocking down the Food Building or something, at least. In any case, its still too much of an unneccesary expense.

Bars92
08-10-2008, 02:59 AM
How many people play soccer in this country versus "football".

Keystone FC
08-10-2008, 03:00 AM
I'm just wondering how much this:
http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/commonwealth_games_bids/1216133596.html
will affect either TFC or the Argos.
I know it's for the 2015 games but there is alot to be gained (and lost) on something like this.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 03:22 AM
How many people play soccer in this country versus "football".

Irrelevant to the Argos/BMO debate.

Though if you'd prefer to go down that road, more people watch CFL than watch MLS. Same with NFL games.

More people have their kids enrolled in soccer leagues, by virtue of it being way cheaper, and less violent, than American football.

I'm pro BMO staying SSS. I'm also anti "pointy ball hate".

- Scott

Bars92
08-10-2008, 03:30 AM
Highly relevant to Argos/BMO deabte. In fact the crux of the issue. I like NFL football on a sunday morn like anyone else --but my point is that soccer(football) is a common game -- I dont have to be enrolled at Miami(of Ohio) and be some roid monkey.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 03:34 AM
Highly relevant to Argos/BMO deabte. In fact the crux of the issue. I like NFL football on a sunday morn like anyone else --but my point is that soccer(football) is a common game -- I dont have to be enrolled at Miami(of Ohio) and be some roid monkey.

But, what does that have to do with the prospect of the Argos becoming tenants at BMO Field?

- Scott

Bars92
08-10-2008, 03:51 AM
But, what does that have to do with the prospect of the Argos becoming tenants at BMO Field?

- Scott
Argos do not have the fanbase to make such leap. They are a bunch of old granny cunts that will soon be withered away by the natural course.

James Oliphant
08-10-2008, 04:36 AM
Argos do not have the fanbase to make such leap. They are a bunch of old granny cunts that will soon be withered away by the natural course.

You mean the leap into a stadium with 10,000 less seats than they regularly sell at the dome?

You're really not helping the cause, pal.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 04:37 AM
Argos do not have the fanbase to make such leap. They are a bunch of old granny cunts that will soon be withered away by the natural course.

Attendance wouldn't be the issue, as the Argos currently draw around 35,000 per game at the SkyDome.

- Scott

Flipityflu
08-10-2008, 07:29 AM
as far as i'm concerned, this debate is pretty simple. it has nothing to do with who supports what, which team has been around longer, or costs for converting the stadium.

it comes down to what was promised...a national soccer stadium built to house a new soccer expansion team in MLS that has a soccer specific stadium as a apart of that expansion. it was partially paid for by taxpayers money. taxpayers were not told this was a stadium being built for the argo's, or for pointy ball. it was built for soccer, and that is why is should stay that way. the argo's had their chance to be apart of this, and they backed out. now they have possibly changed their minds. well, sorry, its too late for that. go talk to York.

BigLou
08-10-2008, 10:38 AM
totally unrelated question... how many argos are in the olympics? ;)
post of the day!

ExiledRed
08-10-2008, 11:25 AM
tfc+argos4life,

If you're going to write an epic, please use the sans serif default font, otherwise only half of the people you want to read it, actually will.

Using a serif font on the internet by choice......wtf is that about? making your letters heavier doesn't give your argument more weight.

ExiledRed
08-10-2008, 11:32 AM
I

So right now, while Mayor Miller, MLSE, and the Argos keep smiling with their mouths shut, their accountants are behind the scenes trying to make the numbers work. If all the columns balance and everybody’s happy, get ready to welcome your new roomie at merry ol’ BMO Field!!!

TFC *clap clap clap* TFC!!!
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!!!


There's something about the inane smugness of this post that really gets my back up.

I finally bothered to squint long enough to read it, but I wish I hadn't bothered.

You can have my seasons when your 'rugby for pansies' team gets in, and you can enjoy the muted atmosphere while you're at it.

Redcoe15
08-10-2008, 05:02 PM
This TFC+Argos4Life is not a true TFC supporter. He's a douchebag troll who joined these forums only to make a huge ass of himself with all this Argos/TFC cumbayaga bullshit about sharing BMO Field.

Tigers can't change their stripes. Or, in his case, slugs can't wash their slime off!

TFC+Argos4Life
08-10-2008, 08:49 PM
Tigers can't change their stripes. Or, in his case, slugs can't wash their slime off!

oooh... ouch... you discovered my one weakness; asinine, garbled folk wisdom. I'm sure to require several hours of therapy to get over this one...

So I'm not a TFC supporter just because I don't agree with you? Does everyone who joins these groups have to keep their mouths shut and tow the party line? If that's true you might as well erase my account right now, and anyone else unhappy being a handpuppet ought to ask the same.

How about instead I keep having whatever opinions I bloody well please, and if you don't like it, feel free to ignore me... or else proceed to fornicate yourself with the nearest coat hanger.

And for those of you who intend to seriously oppose any sharing of BMO field, you'd be smart if you read my post and try to address the points I'm making rather than saying "fuck the argos, cfl sucks, (in fake british accent) ah sod off ye blimmin' wankers!". Once this move really kicks into motion, the powers that be (like Miller, MLSE, and the Argos) will need real reasons why this move shouldn't go ahead, not childish complaints. With the dollar signs that could be staring them in the face, they'd be hard-pressed to care less about your feelings.

Roogsy
08-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Mike Toth? What are you doing here?

Flipityflu
08-10-2008, 08:53 PM
i don't have to argue any fucking point since you are an ignorant savage talking about fake british accents. you are a cunt. fuck off.

Shakes McQueen
08-10-2008, 08:58 PM
oooh... ouch... you discovered my one weakness; asinine, garbled folk wisdom. I'm sure to require several hours of therapy to get over this one...

So I'm not a TFC supporter just because I don't agree with you? Does everyone who joins these groups have to keep their mouths shut and tow the party line? If that's true you might as well erase my account right now, and anyone else unhappy being a handpuppet ought to ask the same.

How about instead I keep having whatever opinions I bloody well please, and if you don't like it, feel free to ignore me... or else proceed to fornicate yourself with the nearest coat hanger.

And for those of you who intend to seriously oppose any sharing of BMO field, you'd be smart if you read my post and try to address the points I'm making rather than saying "fuck the argos, cfl sucks, (in fake british accent) ah sod off ye blimmin' wankers!". Once this move really kicks into motion, the powers that be (like Miller, MLSE, and the Argos) will need real reasons why this move shouldn't go ahead, not childish complaints. With the dollar signs that could be staring them in the face, they'd be hard-pressed to care less about your feelings.

Well played! Talking as if you've somehow opted for the high road, while at the same time laying out several unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks.

Bonus points for focusing in on the classics, such as the whole "fake British accent" nonsense propagated by the sage wisdom of such noted Toronto FC fans as Mike Toth.

Seriously, what was the point of this? You did nothing to change the minds of those you speak of, you just insulted them. And for those who DO respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation, you've just destroyed your credibility.

Again - well played.

- Scott

LucaGol
08-10-2008, 09:04 PM
oooh... ouch... you discovered my one weakness; asinine, garbled folk wisdom. I'm sure to require several hours of therapy to get over this one...

So I'm not a TFC supporter just because I don't agree with you? Does everyone who joins these groups have to keep their mouths shut and tow the party line? If that's true you might as well erase my account right now, and anyone else unhappy being a handpuppet ought to ask the same.

How about instead I keep having whatever opinions I bloody well please, and if you don't like it, feel free to ignore me... or else proceed to fornicate yourself with the nearest coat hanger.

And for those of you who intend to seriously oppose any sharing of BMO field, you'd be smart if you read my post and try to address the points I'm making rather than saying "fuck the argos, cfl sucks, (in fake british accent) ah sod off ye blimmin' wankers!". Once this move really kicks into motion, the powers that be (like Miller, MLSE, and the Argos) will need real reasons why this move shouldn't go ahead, not childish complaints. With the dollar signs that could be staring them in the face, they'd be hard-pressed to care less about your feelings.

Here's one reason you keep ignoring....placing and replacing skids of grass on such a frequent basis is sure to create an inconsistent playing surface.

Unless you prove that this will not occur...the fundamental portion of the debate...you have failed to convince anyone of anything.

BC101
08-10-2008, 09:52 PM
Cite me one example of a facility that has to constantly place, replace, remove "skids of grass" on a continual basis.

Your correct, Im not an expert on how this system might function...but trying to think about logically...I can't imagine it would be the ideal surface to play on. I can envision seams...uneveness....and most definitely...especially with the field turf underneath...unnatural bounces of the ball. I can envision tight schedules causing the expedient installation of these skids and sloppy jobs being performed. I can also envision poor grass quality.

Once again...Im not an expert...but the surface is not ideal. TFC already has a difficult enough time as it is proving the legitimacy of field turf to potential incoming players....imagine trying to prove the legitimacy of "skids of grass" as a proper playing surface.

Unlike throwball....football requires a pristine surface to play on for a proper game to be conducted.

p.s. As for your smugness......as a cab driver in Seinfeld once said...."Smugness is not a good quality"

We don't usually agree on much but this is one of those times I view what you wrote as art. Clearly this Mike Toth or whatever their calling him is just a cunt who doesn't know anything about footy or soccer whatever the fuck he wants to call it.

A PRIME example of that shit was Wembley where they had a american running ball "Friendly" and the field was so torn up and shitty it didn't heal for months. And it showed in the deciding match of England vs Croatia for England's chance to get into the Euro's.

Redcoe15
08-10-2008, 11:13 PM
oooh... ouch... you discovered my one weakness; asinine, garbled folk wisdom. I'm sure to require several hours of therapy to get over this one...
Paging Dr. Kervorkian...

So I'm not a TFC supporter just because I don't agree with you? Does everyone who joins these groups have to keep their mouths shut and tow the party line? If that's true you might as well erase my account right now, and anyone else unhappy being a handpuppet ought to ask the same.
Better git th' gun, Billy.

How about instead I keep having whatever opinions I bloody well please, and if you don't like it, feel free to ignore me... or else proceed to fornicate yourself with the nearest coat hanger.
Or, we could take a curling iron, turn it up to max, ass fuck you with it, THEN we'll leave you alone.

And for those of you who intend to seriously oppose any sharing of BMO field, you'd be smart if you read my post and try to address the points I'm making rather than saying "fuck the argos, cfl sucks, (in fake british accent) ah sod off ye blimmin' wankers!". Once this move really kicks into motion, the powers that be (like Miller, MLSE, and the Argos) will need real reasons why this move shouldn't go ahead, not childish complaints. With the dollar signs that could be staring them in the face, they'd be hard-pressed to care less about your feelings.
Given that the Argo owners expressed interest in acquiring an NFL franchise a year ago, in order to head off Rogers attempts at landing a team, and that it was stated that both could easily afford the cost of a team worth near a billion dollars, I would suggest that the Argo owners take a fraction of that, build their own little playground on the campus of York University and leave TFC and BMO Field the fuck alone.

Then you can go out there to Argo home games with Toth, Simmons, McCown and have one big double blue daisy chain.

Now run along, ugly :troll:

Cashcleaner
08-11-2008, 02:40 AM
Highly relevant to Argos/BMO deabte. In fact the crux of the issue. I like NFL football on a sunday morn like anyone else --but my point is that soccer(football) is a common game -- I dont have to be enrolled at Miami(of Ohio) and be some roid monkey.

Actually, it's really got nothing to do with it at all.

Please Bars, you're not doing our argument any good with your comments. Let the adults talk amongst themselves and go run along. Thanks.

TFC+Argos4Life
08-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Well played! Talking as if you've somehow opted for the high road, while at the same time laying out several unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks.


Bonus points for focusing in on the classics, such as the whole "fake British accent" nonsense propagated by the sage wisdom of such noted Toronto FC fans as Mike Toth.

Seriously, what was the point of this? You did nothing to change the minds of those you speak of, you just insulted them. And for those who DO respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation, you've just destroyed your credibility.

Again - well played.

- Scott

I'm sure you've noticed the amount of not-so-subtle attacks that get levelled at me after every post. You can hardly blame me for getting in a few myself. I've never heard a supporter use a fake british accent, so I have no idea if it's true. I just use it because the attackers seem particularly sensitive to it.

I hope those like yourself who attempt reasonable responses to my posts would not have been offended, and I apologize if you were. The point I was trying to make was that it's more helpful to the anti-move argument to address my points rationally rather than bitch and moan and swear. I don't see how my credibility would be affected. After all, I have no credibility and neither does almost anyone else in an online forum. Take my opinions for what they are, and anytime I need to make a claim for which credibility is required, I'll back it up with some kind of source.


Here's one reason you keep ignoring....placing and replacing skids of grass on such a frequent basis is sure to create an inconsistent playing surface.


Unless you prove that this will not occur...the fundamental portion of the debate...you have failed to convince anyone of anything.

Sorry if I ignored it before.

I have no idea what kind of surface would result. To my knowledge, this kind of system doesn’t exist anywhere in the world. It was just a guess I had, and I made sure to write this in my post. I see some of you took this as some kind of fact, sorry for the confusion.

However, if MLSE and this city decide to go this route, the likely course of action would involve the building of a scale demonstration model. I’m sure the players would be invited to try it out, and if they set it up during the home game, maybe even some fans. The intent would be to convince everyone of the integrity of the surface, and hopefully win over the doubters.

LucaGol
08-11-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm sure you've noticed the amount of not-so-subtle attacks that get levelled at me after every post. You can hardly blame me for getting in a few myself. I've never heard a supporter use a fake british accent, so I have no idea if it's true. I just use it because the attackers seem particularly sensitive to it.

I hope those like yourself who attempt reasonable responses to my posts would not have been offended, and I apologize if you were. The point I was trying to make was that it's more helpful to the anti-move argument to address my points rationally rather than bitch and moan and swear. I don't see how my credibility would be affected. After all, I have no credibility and neither does almost anyone else in an online forum. Take my opinions for what they are, and anytime I need to make a claim for which credibility is required, I'll back it up with some kind of source.



Sorry if I ignored it before.

I have no idea what kind of surface would result. To my knowledge, this kind of system doesn’t exist anywhere in the world. It was just a guess I had, and I made sure to write this in my post. I see some of you took this as some kind of fact, sorry for the confusion.

However, if MLSE and this city decide to go this route, the likely course of action would involve the building of a scale demonstration model. I’m sure the players would be invited to try it out, and if they set it up during the home game, maybe even some fans. The intent would be to convince everyone of the integrity of the surface, and hopefully win over the doubters.

Invite Paul Stalteri....he'll love it.......I also think Tomasz Radzinski and Darren Huckerby are massive fans of experimental soccer playing surfaces....make sure they're on the trial list.........(cue ridiculously long rolling of the eyes)

Ya, um...good luck with all that.

So we're going to boldly become the first facility on this great earth to have a system of "grass skids" placed and replaced on a frequent basis....great.....

James Oliphant
08-11-2008, 12:47 PM
So we're going to boldly become the first facility on this great earth to have a system of "grass skids" placed and replaced on a frequent basis....great.....

You might have heard of this place...the Super Bowl was played there in February...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium

That said, this solution would never work for us...there's just zero room for us to have any sort of removable/retractable surface.

Fort York Redcoat
08-11-2008, 12:53 PM
Why are the Argos even thinking about spending so much money to be a second tenant AND completely hated by a(ny) group of people?

Take the renovation $ and build an Argos first stadium. It'll be the first time for it and the fans have been begging for it for decades.

LucaGol
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
You might have heard of this place...the Super Bowl was played there in February...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium

That said, this solution would never work for us...there's just zero room for us to have any sort of removable/retractable surface.

Thanks Oliphant...I'm gonna assume your comment was tongue and cheek.

Nevertheless...Phoenix stadium is still different because the field always remains intact.

Argos4Life insinuated or guessed that the grass would be skids/palettes/pods of grass...to be placed and replaced every single time either the Argos play or TFC plays.

How could a system like that possibly ever produce a proper footy playing surface?

I've never heard of a facility that does that....so probably zero.

And we're back to the lines on the field problem, if that's indeed the alternative they're looking at.

LucaGol
08-12-2008, 11:18 AM
First you assume that anyone outside of TFC's limited hardcore fans care that the Red Patch Boys or the Ultras hate them.

They don't.

Your opinion doesn't matter. Especially with MLSE. Whose bottom line is getting more dates for BMO.

And I'm a huge footie fan, but I don't regard BMO with any fondness as it has plastic grass. Based on that one issues, it's not a SSS like Saputo is.

Paints as many lines on it as you see fit. It's already been compromised as a true soccer stadium.

You're right....but we should be improving BMO...not making it worse than it already is.

Roogsy
08-12-2008, 11:20 AM
You're right....but we should be improving BMO...not making it worse than it already is.

QFFT

/end thread