TFC 2022-2023 player off-season roster discussion

[Oldtimer]

TFC 2022-2023

General roster discussion

Player off-season moves/speculation/rumours
Post your speculation/information/etc. here in this thread!

Confirmed (by traditional media or the club) signings can get a separate single thread. All other "inside" and other information goes here.

[MikeForbes]

Got a feeling this will be a busy thread. Or atleast hoping it will be a busy thread.

[Fort York Redcoat]

How about a team that starts first match of the season with its intended, final, best squad?

Waiting half the year for over paid saviours didn't work out.

[OgtheDim]

I have had 4/5 of a bottle of red so take this for what it's worth :

We need a defensive captain.

Our current defence, even if you had the best keeper in the world, would be not good enough.

[jloome]

I have had 4/5 of a bottle of red so take this for what it's worth :

We need a defensive captain.

Our current defence, even if you had the best keeper in the world, would be not good enough.

More than anything, other than goalie, we need a defensive midfielder, a proper holder. This notion of having all number 8s who can play both directions equally is utter delusional folly.

Most of our defensive woes stem directly from our inability to slow the other team down in transition.

[portu]

I’d usually write up the laundry list, but it’s so exasperating.

I feel like calling for BB’s sacking, but I like him as a coach overall, despite what my criticisms on this board.

I just hope they fix this because it is frustratingly unacceptable.

I don’t know in what world, business, or industry where you could viciously outspend your peers and not have people’s names for it.

It’s all crazy to me. But everyone here knows this (and likely too well). Cheers to the off-season folks.

[jloome]

How about a team that starts first match of the season with its intended, final, best squad?

Waiting half the year for over paid saviours didn't work out.

Yeah, the patience being demanded of fans will be seriously pushing it if the day one team doesn’t look good.

[ag futbol]

Let me throw my name in the hat for more “professionals” and less youth players. Our depth has to be more than kids from the academy who as a whole didn’t arrive game ready and didn’t improve much over the course of the year.

Management has only itself to blame for this and if it continues next year I don’t want to hear any waffling in pressers.

[los sonadores]

Let me throw my name in the hat for more “professionals” and less youth players. Our depth has to be more than kids from the academy who as a whole didn’t arrive game ready and didn’t improve much over the course of the year.

Management has only itself to blame for this and if it continues next year I don’t want to hear any waffling in pressers.

Yeah, I agree. A bench full of young players with little MLS experience and not much practical evidence that they can play substantial minutes will handcuff us. There are plenty of teenagers starting on clubs all over the world and a bunch of guys who look really good in this league but they play only when they help the club on the field.

[rydermike]

Just a reminder, getting rid of Achara, Mavinga, or Jimenez will not free up any additional international slots. Those three guys would take up the bonus 3 slots we get for being a Canadian team that have to be used on players with at least 1 year of playing for the team. Bernadeschi, Insigne, and Criscito do not qualify yet, so take up three regular spots, which means we have only four open international slots regardless of what we do with Achara/Mavinga/Jimenez. (Our 8th slot, we traded to Colorado in the Kaye trade, the overpayment trade that keeps getting more and more expensive. We also don't have our 1st rounder because of that trade)

[JoesphNdo]

We just ended what I assume (someone correct me if I'm wrong) was the worst season in league history, and by miles, in terms of dollar spent vs points earned. My main question this off season will be if we can keep convincing MLSE to flush money down the toilet when it comes to the open DP slot. Though even if we do if we can't suddenly realize how to make trades, manage contracts and actually manage the MLS roster rules we'll still be screwed. There is ALOT of work to do this winter and a hell of alot on the line

[los sonadores]

More than anything, other than goalie, we need a defensive midfielder, a proper holder. This notion of having all number 8s who can play both directions equally is utter delusional folly.

Most of our defensive woes stem directly from our inability to slow the other team down in transition.

Has any of Bradley’s sides used proper holders? (Actual question to anyone who might know, who saw his club in Norway and the Egypt team, not rhetorical question). And I don’t mean one number 8 who plays more central defensively than the others.

[ag futbol]

Yeah, I agree. A bench full of young players with little MLS experience and not much practical evidence that they can play substantial minutes will handcuff us. There are plenty of teenagers starting on clubs all over the world and a bunch of guys who look really good in this league but they play only when they help the club on the field.
Yep.

In a very non defence of said players, maybe we should start playing then in their actual positions.

[OgtheDim]

Should hear by Tuesday about people not signed for next season.

Expect "locker clean out" coverage to be Tuesday as well.

We will know by the end of the week a lot more information.

[ensco]

My idle speculation is that dumpster fires of this intensity have big consequences. I expect surprises.

Could be a very big news week coming up.

Here's my number one speculation: MB must retire next week. He just has to. Or BB has to be told he must be moved, if he wants to play. Which means, I think, that BB might quit. We cannot move forward if this is not dealt with right up front.

[los sonadores]

Yep.

In a very non defence of said players, maybe we should start playing then in their actual positions.

That would be a very good idea.

[ag futbol]

My idle speculation is that dumpster fires of this intensity have big consequences. I expect surprises.

Could be a very big news week coming up.

Here's my number one speculation: MB must retire next week. He just has to. Or BB has to be told he must be moved, if he wants to play. Which means, I think, that BB might quit. We cannot move forward if this is not dealt with right up front.
I don’t know if those in power get it. But there’s a certain 5’4 guy who stormed off last week and hasn’t been heard from since who might have some opinions.

The whole atmosphere surrounding this team at the moment feels complicated. And doesn’t exactly feel like it’s setting the stage for future success (to me at least)

[Ultra & Proud]

I don’t know if those in power get it. But there’s a certain 5’4 guy who stormed off last week and hasn’t been heard from since who might have some opinions.

The whole atmosphere surrounding this team at the moment feels complicated. And doesn’t exactly feel like it’s setting the stage for future success (to me at least)

You realize he had some other, more serious issues going on right? The fact he even played says more than him being upset on the way off the pitch.

[leedsandTFC]

BB said in prematch presser that there was a lot more they wanted to do this season in terms of squad building but was impossible due to preexisting conditions and contracts.

Likely talking about mavinga Bono and westberg.

[FootBallAZ]

BB said in prematch presser that there was a lot more they wanted to do this season in terms of squad building but was impossible due to preexisting conditions and contracts.

Likely talking about mavinga Bono and westberg.

He had full control and got rid of a lot of players- Maybe he should have tried with players TFC had rather than getting rid of mid field depth to make his son look more needed .

Smh no excuse Armas and perez didn't get to survive and had no insigne, FB or Mimo.

Anyone saying BB had less talent- that was his decision to proceed with .

And the scary part is- FB, laryea, and mimo's game basically nose dived - not sure what the heck coaching coaches players best play style to change



This is the most scary part or the fact he rode with Bono so long even after Bono scored what twice on himself off opposing players (they didn't count- one should have stood for sure )


I'm really feeling uneasy about re-investing again.


They didn't even recoup money from poz

[ensco]

BB said in prematch presser that there was a lot more they wanted to do this season in terms of squad building but was impossible due to preexisting conditions and contracts.

Likely talking about mavinga Bono and westberg.

BB appears to have had bad judgment about who to get rid of. That was a choice he made.

Putting aside Dwyer (and the high draft pick) - that was kind of different… he dumped Delgado, Lawrence, Auro. If he had kept them and dumped Mavinga and Bono, wouldn’t we have been better off?

[NK Toronto]

TFC in its history has never had a top notch coach with an established pedigree of success. BB is the closest we have ever had. The organizations is willing to pay big to attract players, but they are not willing to pay big to attract coaches.

[JoesphNdo]

My idle speculation is that dumpster fires of this intensity have big consequences. I expect surprises.

Could be a very big news week coming up.

Here's my number one speculation: MB must retire next week. He just has to. Or BB has to be told he must be moved, if he wants to play. Which means, I think, that BB might quit. We cannot move forward if this is not dealt with right up front.

We shall see. I don't think BB is going anywhere and, as such, I predict Michael leads the team on minutes played next season

I think the person sweating the most right now is Manning. I think he owns the financial mismanagement of the team post Bez leaving almost exclusively and this season (again, we're talking maybe the worst season in the history of the league) is very very hard to excuse. Bob called the shots this year and got alot (most) of decisions wrong but Manning enabled that, and what happened before Bob, and has overseen cluster fuck after cluster fuck of terrible trade decisions and contract management and general burning of money with nothing to show for it.

My idle speculation is Manning goes and someone comes in who is alot more hands on than he was

[OgtheDim]

Delgado wanted out.

Mavinga seriously regressed this year

The 3rd keeper signing indicates to me they had a deal for somebody to move out.

*****

I agree that MB should stand down from starting but I doubt it happens.

[leedsandTFC]

Delgado wanted out.

Mavinga seriously regressed this year

The 3rd keeper signing indicates to me they had a deal for somebody to move out.

*****

I agree that MB should stand down from starting but I doubt it happens.

I think it could.

Bob in his post match presser said even this year the goal was not for Michael to play every game, but injuries made it necessary (okello, priso, oso, Kaye all missed large parts of the year through injury).

I think next year he rotates in and iut of lineup.

[JoesphNdo]

Delgado wanted out.

Mavinga seriously regressed this year

The 3rd keeper signing indicates to me they had a deal for somebody to move out.

*****

I agree that MB should stand down from starting but I doubt it happens.

The fact that so many of our players suddenly "wanted out", including one of the league's best, is in and of itself telling.

When we were winning things elite players never simply wanted out

[Bushmancan]

I think there are a ton of issues to be sorted out, the biggest one is that we are talking about moving 5 starters out of the lineup. Sure we have money but without cohesion and playing time together this will be still a work in progress. I really hope i am wrong but i dont think buying our way out of it is going to be easy unless some ridiculously fortunate availabilities occur.

[ag futbol]

Re: roster building… Life gets a lot harder when you do things that are stupid.

We cover part of Kamal Lawrence’s salary to play elsewhere. Let that sink in. We pay for a starter on a playoff team and we ourselves have zero depth.

But Lawrence creates a bad team atmosphere apparently or isn’t focused on football. Unlike our team, which is focused on nothing but football considerations and creating a good team atmosphere by giving the coach’s aging son the captain armband and playing him every available minute of game time.

Sounds believable.

[rydermike]

Bob in his post match presser said even this year the goal was not for Michael to play every game, but injuries made it necessary (okello, priso, oso, Kaye all missed large parts of the year through injury).

I think next year he rotates in and iut of lineup.
I find it hard to believe that.

1) If the goal was not to play him so many minutes, why did you ship out his only real like for like replacement in Priso and not bring in his replacement.

2) If the goal was not to play him so many minutes, why did he always play the full 90 even in games that were over and decided well before the end of the game. If we're losing 3-0 and there's half an hour left, why not sub him out and give him a half hour rest.


Sure you could argue that the Rapids demanded Priso. Maybe that's true. Yes, you can argue injuries required MB to play games (like when Perez was forced to go back to him after Priso got hurt).

But if the goal was truly to not play Bradley every game and every minute, there's no excuse for Point #2. If a game is well over and decided, why keep your 35 year old CM in the game logging unnecessary miles. That tells me it's a lie and/or excuse. Bob never had any intention of not playing MB. He had many many opportunities to not play him for even just 5/10/15/30 minutes within a game and only did so once the second game of the season.

[ensco]

As someone who is all in on the CMNT, and frnakly that has made this TFC season much much easier to take….

It is pretty weird how much the CMNT is more than the sum of the parts, and how much TFC is less than the sum of the parts.

We are not as bad as we looked the last 5 weeks, so we should be careful here. In particular I really don’t know what to think about Nelson, Shaff and JMR for next year. The classic kneejerk TFC response would be to move on.

I really think moving on from MB, and getting a new 6, would solve numerous problems at once.

[Ultra & Proud]

I really think moving on from MB, and getting a new 6, would solve numerous problems at once.

A real #6. Not a random midfielder pushed into that spot either because I'm kind of expecting that.

[portu]

BB said in prematch presser that there was a lot more they wanted to do this season in terms of squad building but was impossible due to preexisting conditions and contracts.

Likely talking about mavinga Bono and westberg.

Really because he sure as hell had enough assets, GAM, and cap space to spend on Jimenez, Criscito, Kaye, Laryea. And enough to waste when shipping out Lawrence, Auro, Pozuelo.

[leedsandTFC]

Really because he sure as hell had enough assets, GAM, and cap space to spend on Jimenez, Criscito, Kaye, Laryea. And enough to waste when shipping out Lawrence, Auro, Pozuelo.


Yes, and we clearly need way more than that.

Hence not enough..

[jloome]

Yes, and we clearly need way more than that.

Hence not enough..

Everything here logically points to them having to cover too many departed contracts to take on any more starting-quality players, thus the kids.

If that's only a one-season problem, which seems likely, we should see five or six signings in pretty short order, as they doubtless -- or doubtless should -- have a looooong shopping list.

[rydermike]

In particular I really don’t know what to think about Nelson, Shaff and JMR for next year.

Shaff is gone. Nashville is definitely going to pick up the purchase option

[portu]

Yes, and we clearly need way more than that.

Hence not enough..

Whatever useless discussions with some

[jloome]

Shaff is gone. Nashville is definitely going to pick up the purchase option

Started and played another 78 solid minutes in their win yesterday.

Jesus, what a stupid move. I mean... after that, it's hard to have faith in anything these guys do.

[Red CB Toronto]

Shaff is gone. Nashville is definitely going to pick up the purchase option

Could TFC not just recall him, I wonder if the purchase option has to be agreed to by both teams or is it already in place?

[Smokecell]

Shaff doesn’t fit the system. You can’t hold onto players because fans like them. He needed to leave to advance his career.

[rydermike]

Could TFC not just recall him, I wonder if the purchase option has to be agreed to by both teams or is it already in place?
Purchase options usually mean the receiving team has full control and the player can't just be recalled by the sending.

Edit: (forgot the second part) If there's a purchase option, the price is already in place

[jloome]

Shaff doesn’t fit the system. You can’t hold onto players because fans like them. He needed to leave to advance his career.

No winger is so one-dimensional that they can't be taught to cut inside.

[ensco]

Purchase options usually mean the receiving team has full control and the player can't just be recalled by the sending.

I guess this all turns on what the transfer fee would be. I kind of assumed it would be set very high, otherwise the deal made no sense… but perhaps the deal made no sense.

[ensco]

If there is one thing we gotta do as fans it's stopping with the “he doesn’t fit the system” excuses for talent misjudgments…. when our system isn’t working!

We keep having bouts of this, starting with Aron Winter all those years ago… Until you prove you are an elite team, you play your best XI and adapt to that. Like everybody else.

[jloome]

MINUTES PLAYED IN MLS THIS SEASON.

Jakob Glesnes is the only other non-keeper on this list.

EDIT: Unless I've missed anyone, our next-most minutes on the season was Jesus Jimenez at 2351, not even in the top 60




A. Blake (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/andre-blake)

PHI
34
34
3060


J. Bond (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/jonathan-bond)

LA
34
34
3060


J. Glesnes (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/jakob-glesnes)

PHI
34
34
3060


S. Johnson (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/sean-johnson)

NYC
34
34
3060


Z. MacMath (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/zac-macmath)

RSL
34
34
3060


E. Room (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/eloy-room)

CLB
34
34
3060


M. Bradley (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/michael-bradley)

TOR
34
34
3050



I believe the ten minutes he missed was the last 10 in the Charlotte game, after he scored twice.

[jloome]

I'd also be in favor of having some improved communications from the club next year. MLSE treats a sports franchise's communications like a corporate PR "fuck off" department, judging by how infrequently it attempts any sort of narrative or information flow.

You'd think they would use PR proactively to build excitement; but it seems to do little to take the lead.

[JoesphNdo]

Shaff doesn’t fit the system. You can’t hold onto players because fans like them. He needed to leave to advance his career.

Strong disagree. He's home grown, small cap hit, no international spot, versatile, decently effective and won't demand to play every week. Add in a local which helps for retention. This is *exactly* the kind of player you need to pad your squad with if you want to win in MLS with its roster rules, you need squad players that have as little impact on your squad space as possible. We went from making very effective, efficient moves in that area of roster building to not having the slightest idea what we're doing and that, as much as anything, is why we just had maybe the worst season in league history in terms of return on spend

[Red CB Toronto]

I'd also be in favor of having some improved communications from the club next year. MLSE treats a sports franchise's communications like a corporate PR "fuck off" department, judging by how infrequently it attempts any sort of narrative or information flow.

You'd think they would use PR proactively to build excitement; but it seems to do little to take the lead.

I think we will have to wait and see who the next president and ceo is of MLSE is? Will they have from the sports world or will we get a bean counter with no public profile.

[portu]

I'd also be in favor of having some improved communications from the club next year. MLSE treats a sports franchise's communications like a corporate PR "fuck off" department, judging by how infrequently it attempts any sort of narrative or information flow.

You'd think they would use PR proactively to build excitement; but it seems to do little to take the lead.

When you have nothing good to say, gaslight the fan base.

[ag futbol]

If there is one thing we gotta do as fans it's stopping with the “he doesn’t fit the system” excuses for talent misjudgments…. when our system isn’t working!

We keep having bouts of this, starting with Aron Winter all those years ago… Until you prove you are an elite team, you play your best XI and adapt to that. Like everybody else.
There are a handful of managers world wide who actually add value by having a rigid system (Bradley isn’t one of them).

Everyone else figures out how to maximize the effectiveness of what they have at their disposal.

[jloome]

There are a handful of managers world wide who actually add value by having a rigid system (Bradley isn’t one of them).

Everyone else figures out how to maximize the effectiveness of what they have at their disposal.

Given that he's basically a hype man, I wonder if Manning requested he develop a style that would be seen as TFC "brand" ala Gegenpress at Red Bull.

Perhaps the presser, where he admitted they're sitting down this week to reevaluate everything, was a nod to admitting what was proposed just didn't work. It wasn't just the talent base.

[jloome]

When you have nothing good to say, gaslight the fan base.

They can be proactive without gaslighting. There are things people love about their club even when they're losing; usually that doesn't include management. But there are plenty of other angles to keep attention on what's going on; even just better communication over things like injuries and roster flexibility would probably go a long way to easing tension.

They don't have to wait for reporters to ask the question, as most are fucking awful at their jobs and ask the most facile shit possible.

[OgtheDim]

We are going to know a lot based on how the "clean out day" pressers go.

Who the team brings out?

What BB says

Who has been let go by then


I expect to see MB trotted out & for him to give his usual "it wasn't good enough" speech which is getting tiresome to us as fans let alone guys who have to hear variations on that theme every day.

I'm hoping to see Oso

I would like to see Frederico

[Ultra & Proud]

Random thought - how many games did the reds wear their red jerseys? Seems like they keep forcing this ugly jersey - when I see it I just get angry lol

I agree with this. We wore that shitty away kit more at home than ever before.

[Smokecell]

Did we all watch the same team this year? BB looked for Shaffelburg to be a LB so unless we’re saying we stubbornly believe that was ever going to work out, he needed to go.

BB isn’t changing his system because some people on a message board think he should adapt to his best X1. This is less opinion and more so accepting realities.

He left. He got minutes playing his natural position. He has so far thrived. I’m happy for the guy. Whether or not I believe in what we have going on here, this was a great move for the player. His career was being stagnated here.

[jloome]

Did we all watch the same team this year? BB looked for Shaffelburg to be a LB so unless we’re saying we stubbornly believe that was ever going to work out, he needed to go.

BB isn’t changing his system because some people on a message board think he should adapt to his best X1. This is less opinion and more so accepting realities.

He left. He got minutes playing his natural position. He has so far thrived. I’m happy for the guy. Whether or not I believe in what we have going on here, this was a great move for the player. His career was being stagnated here.

He played a winger as a fullback and it didn't work. That's all that happened. We still need wingers.

His system uses inverted wingers, and Shaff has been more a traditional winger. But that's not a huge adjustment.

He did poorly because he was played out of position. He had two goals and two assists for Nashville in his first five appearances, then started for them and played 78 minutes last night.

[DavemTFC]

I believe the ten minutes he missed was the last 10 in the Charlotte game, after he scored twice.

It was the home opener against red bulls

[Section 223]

If there is one thing we gotta do as fans it's stopping with the “he doesn’t fit the system” excuses for talent misjudgments…. when our system isn’t working!

We keep having bouts of this, starting with Aron Winter all those years ago… Until you prove you are an elite team, you play your best XI and adapt to that. Like everybody else.
Hey guys I want you all to read the above comment over and over again, it’s one of the most intelligent things I’ve read on this site.

[gracos]

Bob and Bill are the problem until they get released, doesnt matter who you bring in for players, we will never achieve anything with them at the helm

[portu]

They can be proactive without gaslighting. There are things people love about their club even when they're losing; usually that doesn't include management. But there are plenty of other angles to keep attention on what's going on; even just better communication over things like injuries and roster flexibility would probably go a long way to easing tension.

They don't have to wait for reporters to ask the question, as most are fucking awful at their jobs and ask the most facile shit possible.

100% agreed. But I don’t think we’ll get even that. I get the they think they’re running a highly confidential operation and not a football club at times.

[leedsandTFC]

If there is one thing we gotta do as fans it's stopping with the “he doesn’t fit the system” excuses for talent misjudgments…. when our system isn’t working!

We keep having bouts of this, starting with Aron Winter all those years ago… Until you prove you are an elite team, you play your best XI and adapt to that. Like everybody else.

We did that all year, playing a bunch of different formations based on available players.

We played 352, 3411,442, 442 diamond, 343, 433, 433 with insigne central.

infact, not even 2 days ago we rolled out a 352 as that suited the available players best.

the biggest issue, as has been all season, is that the available players after the first 3-6 are nowhere close to good enough.

[ensco]

^We are saying different things. System is different than formation - how you think positionally, tactically etc. So high press is a system. Formation is a subset of that. In my opinion, BB has not shown much system/tactical flexibility, and yes, he has used different formations.

Plus let's face it, "system" in the context of "he doesn't fit our system", is in world football a buzzword for "we don't like his attitude" or similar - in a lot of cases anyway.

We agree on the fact that we need 5-8 new starters to be a contender.

Suspect we disagree on how fast that can/will happen, and also on whether 2022 asset management has lengthened that process.

[Ultra & Proud]

This season is exactly what BB football looks like. LA missed the playoffs with him and canned his a.ss and now won the Supporter's Shield. We have the highest payroll in the league, and finished 27th out of 28, and tied our record goals against and were not even competitive in some games in the long losing streak to finish the season. The team quit on him at the end. Sorry, I have seen what BB's football looks like and (to borrow a BB euphemism), its not in a good way. He needs to go right now. Enough damage was done. I don't want more of it. Lets move on, right the ship quickly and get back to where we belong.

I'm on the fence with BB and he has until June 2023 to prove himself in both his roles but you always bring this LAFC point up without the full story. When they missed the playoffs they were forced to dump important players in the offseason to be cap compliant and they also had an assload of injuries and couldn't recover.

[leedsandTFC]

^We are saying different things. System is different than formation - how you think positionally, tactically etc. So high press is a system. Formation is a subset of that. In my opinion, BB has not shown much system/tactical flexibility, and yes, he has used different formations.

Plus let's face it, "system" in the context of "he doesn't fit our system", is in world football a buzzword for "we don't like his attitude" or similar - in a lot of cases anyway.

We agree on the fact that we need 5-8 new starters to be a contender.

Suspect we disagree on how fast that can/will happen, and also on whether 2022 asset management has lengthened that process.

we barely employed a high press for a lot of the season.

especially earlier in the year, if we got a league we dropped into a midblock.

[noxx98]

Atlanta’s GM says he hasn’t heard anything about a 4th DP being added. Bogert says his sources have said the same thing.
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1579839995661414400?s=46&t=ixZ9KgGKaURnjiQPOm6_WA

[jloome]

Galindo's weekly wrap for sportsnet notes Shaffelburg has now started five straight games for Nashville. The key from his perspective has been reducing hesitancy around the box, which sounds familiar to anyone who has watched any of our younger players this season.

He thinks he's going to start during the playoffs, too, as Shaff takes heat off Mukhtar and creates space.

[leedsandTFC]

Galindo's weekly wrap for sportsnet notes Shaffelburg has now started five straight games for Nashville. The key from his perspective has been reducing hesitancy around the box, which sounds familiar to anyone who has watched any of our younger players this season.

He thinks he's going to start during the playoffs, too, as Shaff takes heat off Mukhtar and creates space.

He suits Nashville well as they are a team that is comfortable sitting deep and hitting on the break.

I don't think shaff works in a possession based team, but Nashville is a great landing spot for him.

[jloome]

He suits Nashville well as they are a team that is comfortable sitting deep and hitting on the break.

I don't think shaff works in a possession based team, but Nashville is a great landing spot for him.

He worked with several of the coaches from Nashville when he was a youth player with the SKC system for a short while.

[leedsandTFC]

He worked with several of the coaches from Nashville when he was a youth player with the SKC system for a short while.

Makes sense.

I think that is transfer that suits everyone.

He's not gonna get many mins here with insigne and berna on the wings, and he's found a team and coaching team that can get the most out of him.

[jloome]

Makes sense.

I think that is transfer that suits everyone.

He's not gonna get many mins here with insigne and berna on the wings, and he's found a team and coaching team that can get the most out of him.

Eh... I'm selfish. Better for him, not better for us. Insigne is 31 and has had a handful of injuries in the last eighteen months. We need a decent backup in that spot and I see Shaff having more prospects for being productive than any of our other kids.

If they sign a wide player (maybe two-footed) who is good enough to spot start maybe that becomes less a loss. But this is a league where getting good depth is obviously pretty difficult and he's getting better.

[Ultra & Proud]

But the end run here and how much we got out of the pieces we had is worrisome. Mavinga and O'Neill are both respected defenders in this league. But they've always been a little decision faulty. Same with Salcedo. WIth the money we had, maybe that was simply the best we could do.


Mavinga was a respected defender in the past but he hasn't been a TAM level defender for a few years now and he is clearly sliding. Not sure about 'Neill. He was good covering injuries for Seattle though. For sure we didn't do anything to limit the damage down the stretch. Just kept plugging away at the same thing. BB's quote about taking this season to assess what we had might be telling. It almost seems like he looked at it as an 8 month training camp. "Here's our system. Let's see what you got".

[ag futbol]

Mavinga was a respected defender in the past but he hasn't been a TAM level defender for a few years now and he is clearly sliding. Not sure about 'Neill. He was good covering injuries for Seattle though. For sure we didn't do anything to limit the damage down the stretch. Just kept plugging away at the same thing. BB's quote about taking this season to assess what we had might be telling. It almost seems like he looked at it as an 8 month training camp. "Here's our system. Let's see what you got".
O’Neill to me does not look the part of a starting defender. He does the defending part of the job admirably but he’s not dominant or a backline leader. He’s also terrible on the ball. That has #3 written all over it IMO.

If management used this whole year as a tryout they are crazy. I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again, Bradley’s system is of less value than our collective group of players. Job #1 should have been to get the most out of who is on the roster at any given time.

[Ultra & Proud]

If management used this whole year as a tryout they are crazy. I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again, Bradley’s system is of less value than our collective group of players. Job #1 should have been to get the most out of who is on the roster at any given time.

Unless it really was a trial by fire season and it was approved by Manning (at minimum). Actually the fat cats must be okay with it too since the reward for watching a year of trialing was a 15% to 25% ticket increase.

[ag futbol]

ir wont happen.im sure dad will drive that bus over everybody but his son tomorrow
On that note…

https://twitter.com/AnthonyKhoury4/status/1579854493860376577

[ag futbol]

Unless it really was a trial by fire season and it was approved by Manning (at minimum). Actually the fat cats must be okay with it too since the reward for watching a year of trialing was a 15% to 25% ticket increase.
Oh I’m sure they’re all on the same page. I still think it’s foolish.

[noxx98]

On that note…

https://twitter.com/AnthonyKhoury4/status/1579854493860376577
Early on in the season I thought Bob was saying stuff like this to protect Michael from criticism.... At this point though Bob must have blinders on. I haven't watched all of the pressers, but has Bob said anything negative about MB or said there's something MB could do better? I don't recall him saying something on those lines

[Ultra & Proud]

Early on in the season I thought Bob was saying stuff like this to protect Michael from criticism.... At this point though Bob must have blinders on. I haven't watched all of the pressers, but has Bob said anything negative about MB or said there's something MB could do better? I don't recall him saying something on those lines
I don't think so and I watched a lot of them. At least not directly. He has mentioned things like midfielders getting caught high and such but nothing specific that I ever saw.

[leedsandTFC]

Early on in the season I thought Bob was saying stuff like this to protect Michael from criticism.... At this point though Bob must have blinders on. I haven't watched all of the pressers, but has Bob said anything negative about MB or said there's something MB could do better? I don't recall him saying something on those lines

He did mention his advancing years and that even this previous season the idea going in was not for him to play every game.

[portu]

Michael Bradley was largely impressive for the most part this year.

He also said that the plan wasn't fir him to play every minute, but injuries to a the other cms made it impossible to rotate.

Again you need to touch grass, you sound like you're having a breakdown as you type.
MB has been inconsistent this year. At times excellent, but for the most part largely a liability in transition and when defending.

There should be no debate about his tremendous body of work for the club, especially when considering the team-friendly TAM deal. However, there should also be no debate about him being a lock starter next year.

He is holding this team back, not only because he’s a defensive liability, but because the team is tactically limited to slow, predictable football when he is on the pitch.

All good things must end, and that’s likely been the case since we saw the midfield excel with Oso-Delgado in 2020.

His father being the manager is such a clusterfuck of a situation because he needs to move on or sit and probably shouldn’t hold the armband for basic conflict of interest reasons. MB was never going to be rotated out because this team never had more than three starting midfielders at a time and moved Priso.

[ag futbol]

MB has been inconsistent this year. At times excellent, but for the most part largely a liability in transition and when defending.

There should be no debate about his tremendous body of work for the club, especially when considering the team-friendly TAM deal. However, there should also be no debate about him being a lock starter next year.

He is holding this team back, not only because he’s a defensive liability, but because the team is tactically limited to slow, predictable football when he is on the pitch.

All good things must end, and that’s likely been the case since we saw the midfield excel with Oso-Delgado in 2020.

Totally agree with this.

Someone should sit down with Michael and ask how long he wants to do this. And if he wants to risk tarnishing the legacy he built with the club

[rydermike]

I'm in the middle of the two extremes on Michael Bradley.( Edit: Damn, this is a lot longer than I thought)

Yes, he was amazing in his prime here. A top 3 player for us all-time. I'd say overall, second most impactful player in team's history after Giovinco. Yes, he was A LOT better this season than the last couple seasons. With that said, he was far from being an elite midfielder this season as Bob basically alludes to in his quote about his son. I have to give credit to MB for his ability to keep healthy and fit to play all those minutes. While I do feel he would have been better with some 'load management' minutes off, hats off to him for being able and committed to doing it.

Also, as I said in a previous post, I don't buy Bob's comment that he was basically forced to play MB all of those minutes. There were many opportunities to take him off within a game, even rest him for a game here or there, and he never did. To me, it's a "I know I shouldn't and didn't have to play him all those minutes, but I wanted to, so I found an excuse to play him".

We had the whole youth movement, tried players out of position all the time, but the one position he didn't experiment at was MB's spot. Bob simply had a lack of desire to even consider not having MB playing. Heck, as ridiculous as Armas's decision to try Auro at DM last year was, at least he tried something else there. If this truly was a "building year" to "see what we have", why didn't we see what we have at CM. Bradley's not going to be our starting midfielder in 2024 (at least he shouldn't be), but we didn't try to see what any of our options were. Heck, even after we were eliminated, he still played every minute. We threw on Hugo Mbongue from TFC2 in the last game at forward to give him a few minutes at MLS level before next season, but we couldn't throw on anyone else? Why not give Nelson/Kerr/JMR the last 20 minutes of that game and see what they can do as a CM. What was the worst that could happen, instead of the 4-0 loss we had in the last game of a miserable season, it could've been 5 or 6-0 instead? At least, we'd have 20 minutes of footage of something different.

MB did have moments where he demonstrated his class, with some great passes, that two goal game that surprised me, etc. He was much better than 20/21 MB and the arrival of the Italians did seem to spark his game.

If had to rate his season overall, it'd be "Good". Not "Amazing" like peak MB, not "Impressive" like BB said in his assessment. He didn't make the team any worse this season (we were all around bad, he didn't make us worse), but he also didn't make us any better. He was Satisfactory. Which to me, if you have a player who is not raising the level of the team, not lowering it either, but just keeping it at the same level is a reason to see if you can try someone else who can, if your goal is to be an elite team. We're not a West Ham, who is fine with that mid-table ranking in the EPL. We're TFC with all our money who needs to be a top of the table team. Satisfactory isn't good enough. Try something, so we can be better than Satisfactory.

However, like I said earlier, Bob simply didn't have the desire to consider an alternative, hence why a MB-replacement/alternative was never acquired. MB still has a role on this team. I don't want him off the team. However, I don't want him to be our 34 game starting midfielder. To me, he should be in that Cheyrou role. A starter here and there when needed through injuries/suspension/rotation (~6-10 a season) when you need him and that second half sub (~10-20 times) to ice/calm a game down with his veteran presence. If he's playing 30 minutes a game in a veteran role, he can maximize his class, by having maximum freshness because his energy level isn't depleted and he has recovery time. Playing him 3050 minutes is not helping this team because when you need him, he's not effective because he's been overused unnecessarily. At his age, he's not going to win many footraces. But stick a fresh MB in at minute 70 and maybe he doesn't lose that battle against another player who's been playing 70 minutes already (whereas a MB who has played 70 minutes is going to lose that ball bc he's tired too). Maximize his disadvantage (speed) by putting him in later when others are tired.

[portu]

MB should really be playing further up the pitch. I think I said it earlier in the season, but he can’t play deep because he can’t defend in transition point blank.

The best place for him would be as a pressing 10. Less defensive responsibility, more forward passes. The stats have him in the 90th percentile of MLS midfielders in progressive passing and well in the bottom half for aerials, tackles, pressures and interceptions.

You also wonder if he is playing at 90-100% capacity or constantly running on 70% full tank given all the minutes he’s playing. But even then the difference in strengths is so stark that it’s obvious he shouldn’t be playing in defensive transition.

[OgtheDim]

Was today locker cleanout / meet with the press day?

Didn't see any videos...

[leedsandTFC]

Was today locker cleanout / meet with the press day?

Didn't see any videos...
Tomorrow

[JoesphNdo]

Early on in the season I thought Bob was saying stuff like this to protect Michael from criticism.... At this point though Bob must have blinders on. I haven't watched all of the pressers, but has Bob said anything negative about MB or said there's something MB could do better? I don't recall him saying something on those lines

Quite the opposite. He went out of his way to try to blame Pozuelo on a goal that was 100% Bradley's fault. That was a telling sign on his feelings on both, as blaming Pozuelo for what was a blatant MB fuck up where Pozuelo wasn't even slightly at fault was staggering. That was my first big moment of doubt, it was almost surreal and very very telling about where he was with both players

[ensco]

Quite the opposite. He went out of his way to try to blame Pozuelo on a goal that was 100% Bradley's fault. That was a telling sign on his feelings on both, as blaming Pozuelo for what was a blatant MB fuck up where Pozuelo wasn't even slightly at fault was staggering. That was my first big moment of doubt, it was almost surreal and very very telling about where he was with both players

That was a red letter moment for me too.

Nobody here doesn’t appreciate what MB did for this club. His 2017 final performance was one of the most incredible performances we will ever see.

He is a very smart cookie and is playing conservatively now to protect his advanced stats (hat tip to ag futbol I think who first pointed this out). But he is failing the eyesite test, mostly

You can have older forwards and older CBs. But midfielders run and run and run, and speed was never MB's game to begin with. For laughs, maybe I will list the ages of all the starting MFs this weekend…

Really, how many MFs aged 35+ not named Luka Modric are there in world football?

[spe18]

Quite the opposite. He went out of his way to try to blame Pozuelo on a goal that was 100% Bradley's fault. That was a telling sign on his feelings on both, as blaming Pozuelo for what was a blatant MB fuck up where Pozuelo wasn't even slightly at fault was staggering. That was my first big moment of doubt, it was almost surreal and very very telling about where he was with both players

Which game was this?

[noxx98]

Really, how many MFs aged 35+ not named Luka Modric are there in world football?
https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=Mittelfeld&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=o34&jahrgang=0&land_id=0&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show
Here's the list of 34+ midfielders. After Modric, Busguets, Cuadrado and Rakitic it goes down hill pretty fast...

[noxx98]

Which game was this?
There was a game where Pozuelo made a bad pass in the build up of play that resulted in a turnover. Bradley did a poor job defending/recovering. I maybe wouldn't say 100% was MB's fault, but he could have done better. In the post game, BB was asked about the goal and he mentioned Pozuelo, another midfielder and a defender as having errors in the defending but didn't mention MB.

[ag futbol]

There was a game where Pozuelo made a bad pass in the build up of play that resulted in a turnover. Bradley did a poor job defending/recovering. I maybe wouldn't say 100% was MB's fault, but he could have done better. In the post game, BB was asked about the goal and he mentioned Pozuelo, another midfielder and a defender as having errors in the defending but didn't mention MB.
Listening to BB describe it you’d think Pozuelo led MB off a cliff to die like some sort of lemming.

It was slightly tight but a totally workable situation. One that you’d expect the captain of the team to handle. He got caught in possession and the team got punished for it.

[ensco]

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=Mittelfeld&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=o34&jahrgang=0&land_id=0&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show
Here's the list of 34+ midfielders. After Modric, Busguets, Cuadrado and Rakitic it goes down hill pretty fast...

Thanks. That's elite transfermarkt skills there! Do you work for Bill Manning?

When you start looking on that list for MFs 36 years and older and starting (which MB will be mid next season) …

… in the top 100 guys on that list, it's Modric, Moutinho (Wolves), David Silva (Real Sociedad), Steven Davis (Rangers), Andreas Guardado (Betis - he has only started 3 of 8 games this year, but he starts for El Tri, so he counts), Fernandinho (now in the Brazilian league), and a guy named Martinez in the Ecuadorian league. Nobody in MLS.

That's 7 guys in all of world football, 6 of whom were/are prominent players or stars at a far higher level than MB ever was.

[JoesphNdo]

There was a game where Pozuelo made a bad pass in the build up of play that resulted in a turnover. Bradley did a poor job defending/recovering. I maybe wouldn't say 100% was MB's fault, but he could have done better. In the post game, BB was asked about the goal and he mentioned Pozuelo, another midfielder and a defender as having errors in the defending but didn't mention MB.

A bad pass? Are you Bob Bradley!?

https://youtu.be/wgaUMwNrFoo?t=207 This was the play. Pozuelo plays a perfectly normal pass, played gently to the feet of Michael Bradley who is in acres of space. Bradley messes it up, we conceded, and after the game BB blames Pozuelo for it saying he played a bad pass to Bradley in a 'tight spot'.

Here's a still of Michael receiving the pass in 'tight spot' https://photos.app.goo.gl/DKL3ohGnLdNswbC97 - Nobody around him, two passing options to his left, acres of space and a ball played gently to his feet.

Now I'm not saying he should go to town on the guy, mistakes happen, but his response was surreal. So surreal people still remember it as some kind of bad pass to Michael. It was clear from that moment Bob had his mind made up on Michael and Pozuelo, the former was beyond reproach and the latters days were numbered

[noxx98]

A bad pass? Are you Bob Bradley!?

https://youtu.be/wgaUMwNrFoo?t=207 This was the play. Pozuelo plays a perfectly normal pass, played gently to the feet of Michael Bradley who is in acres of space. Bradley messes it up, we conceded, and after the game BB blames Pozuelo for it saying he played a bad pass to Bradley in a 'tight spot'.

Here's a still of Michael receiving the pass in 'tight spot' https://photos.app.goo.gl/DKL3ohGnLdNswbC97 - Nobody around him, two passing options to his left, acres of space and a ball played gently to his feet.

Now I'm not saying he should go to town on the guy, mistakes happen, but his response was surreal. So surreal people still remember it as some kind of bad pass to Michael. It was clear from that moment Bob had his mind made up on Michael and Pozuelo, the former was beyond reproach and the latters days were numbered
Yeah that one was on MB. For some reason I was remembering another play where Poz played a pass that was a little bit short - maybe I'm misremembering though.

[Kamp Berg]

A bad pass? Are you Bob Bradley!?

https://youtu.be/wgaUMwNrFoo?t=207 This was the play. Pozuelo plays a perfectly normal pass, played gently to the feet of Michael Bradley who is in acres of space. Bradley messes it up, we conceded, and after the game BB blames Pozuelo for it saying he played a bad pass to Bradley in a 'tight spot'.

Here's a still of Michael receiving the pass in 'tight spot' https://photos.app.goo.gl/DKL3ohGnLdNswbC97 - Nobody around him, two passing options to his left, acres of space and a ball played gently to his feet.

Now I'm not saying he should go to town on the guy, mistakes happen, but his response was surreal. So surreal people still remember it as some kind of bad pass to Michael. It was clear from that moment Bob had his mind made up on Michael and Pozuelo, the former was beyond reproach and the latters days were numbered

It’s not talked about by the media, but MB has a habit of arrogant decisions that lead to errors. I remember a game in 2014 or 2015 that he took a pass at the top of the box and instead of passing out of danger, he stopped, put his foot on the ball and waited, while an opposing player stormed him and kicked the ball out from under him and ended up scoring. It was like watching a strange version of the peanuts Lucy and Charlie Brown routine. I was shocked at the time, enough to still remember it.

[portu]

It’s not talked about by the media, but MB has a habit of arrogant decisions that lead to errors. I remember a game in 2014 or 2015 that he took a pass at the top of the box and instead of passing out of danger, he stopped, put his foot on the ball and waited, while an opposing player stormed him and kicked the ball out from under him and ended up scoring. It was like watching a strange version of the peanuts Lucy and Charlie Brown routine. I was shocked at the time, enough to still remember it.
Yes i remember this vividly. He had this terrible habit of thinking he could dance his way out of trouble in our own third

[jloome]

It’s not talked about by the media, but MB has a habit of arrogant decisions that lead to errors. I remember a game in 2014 or 2015 that he took a pass at the top of the box and instead of passing out of danger, he stopped, put his foot on the ball and waited, while an opposing player stormed him and kicked the ball out from under him and ended up scoring. It was like watching a strange version of the peanuts Lucy and Charlie Brown routine. I was shocked at the time, enough to still remember it.

Arrogant levels of self-confidence plague this team. The Mavinga pass out of bounds in the first or second game of the season was another brilliant example. WE always have dudes trying to make passes and plays in more time than they have.

I think "we played arrogantly" was my favorite expression of the 2021 season.


Dude, thought you had me on ignore? But ok, will play along...
.

Oh, you're definitely on ignore. But I see your posts before I log in. It only screens them once a person is logged in.

Best of both worlds.

[JoesphNdo]

It’s not talked about by the media, but MB has a habit of arrogant decisions that lead to errors. I remember a game in 2014 or 2015 that he took a pass at the top of the box and instead of passing out of danger, he stopped, put his foot on the ball and waited, while an opposing player stormed him and kicked the ball out from under him and ended up scoring. It was like watching a strange version of the peanuts Lucy and Charlie Brown routine. I was shocked at the time, enough to still remember it.

I've always thought his ego was his worst enemy and mistakes like that have been all over his time at TFC, if he played within his strengths and not tried to be something he's not he'd have stayed in Europe as he definitely had the talent to stay there. Flipside, that confidence has fueled him to still be at this level physically into his mid 30s, so it's a double edged sword

[leedsandTFC]

Berbardeschi says "it's very important for me to win, will try to make sure we win a trophy next year."

Also reiterated how happy he is in Toronto.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Berbardeschi says "it's very important for me to win, will try to make sure we win a trophy next year."

Also reiterated how happy he is in Toronto.

Nice! Really like him...now if we can get a striker to free him up from all the double teams, watch out!

[noxx98]

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1580208875256840193
Jayden Nelson was the 4th fastest player in the league this season.

[leedsandTFC]

Oso says he's optimistic about being ready for the WC.

Also says if the best option is overseas he'll take it.

Won't decide til after WC.



honestly i love oso and think he's a great player, but wouldn't be the worst thing for him to leave this offseason.

his new contract would be sizeable and he's 30+. he's missing more and more games every year.

he only started 6 more games than criscito this season, a 35 year old who had already played an entire season and joined mid july.

[leedsandTFC]

Nice! Really like him...now if we can get a striker to free him up from all the double teams, watch out!

yeah him and insigne were great this year, but they were doing all that without a striker.

insigne led serie a in assists in his time in the league. he can score, but he's a creator moreso.

we really need to get the striker signing right. if we do these guys can break records next year.

[ensco]

Oso says he's optimistic about being ready for the WC.

Also says if the best option is overseas he'll take it.

Won't decide til after WC.



”Bet on yourself” - Fred van Vleet

Oso believes in himself and thinks he is going to drive the market here. I love it.

[Graeme]

Oso says he's optimistic about being ready for the WC.

Eeek. I don't think there is any way he is going to play in the WC. Maybe off the bench for the last game if we're eliminated. Injury at the wrong time, unfortunately.

[jloome]

”Bet on yourself” - Fred van Vleet

Oso believes in himself and thinks he is going to drive the market here. I love it.

As you know, I work from home. I got FUBO about eight months ago and have been watching a LOT of European football, and I have zero doubt he would plug right into a starting lineup almost anywhere other than the absolute top teams. He's not going to beat out the guys who are just damn near clinically perfect, at Man City and Barca and Bayern.

But if Celtic or Olympiakos or even Leeds came in for him? He'd be good at any of them.

The issue is age. He's 30. Clubs in Europe look first at starters who they can sell on.

Richie is a great example of this. He didn't show badly at all for Forest in his few appearances last year. But he had to be substantially better than the Djed Spences and Brennan Johnsons of the world to make their first team in the Championship.

The reality is that Oso is a risk for them. He's at least as good as many, many players in the Premiership, which despite the aura is, like any pro league, a mix of extreme talents and guys who barely belong. If he got a shot at Fulham or Crystal Palace or any of those clubs, I think he's the ONE guy on our squad other than the Italians who could read the game and react with the speed and precision required to belong.

But those marginal guys in the Prem have usually been with their club for years or have just been promoted. They're not signed from overseas.

I don't think he'll get a better offer there than he's getting here. If he does, it'll be in a league comparable in quality to MLS (ranked between 16 and 21 globally last year): Switzerland, Denmark, Portugal, Scotland, Greece, maybe Turkey or the Championship. The latter two are long shots. Most of those leagues don't pay max TAM money or CLOSE to it for their backup or rotation players. So he has to be a lock starter for them to pay $1M plus, basically.

But if he could swing a roster gig at a club that's likely to go to the Champions League, like Celtic or Porto or Besiktas, I'm sure he'll take it. He'd be great at a team like Celtic that are very quick, aggressive and far more possession oriented than they used to be.

[jloome]

Eeek. I don't think there is any way he is going to play in the WC. Maybe off the bench for the last game if we're eliminated. Injury at the wrong time, unfortunately.

I wouldn't assume that. Herdman really values him. Atiba is touch and go, Kaye has been injured. He's not exactly heavy on impactful central midfielders, particularly with attacking abilities, and Oso has scored important goals for them.

I think if he's healthy and fit, he'll see significant time. The issue is how hard he can work between now and then.

[leedsandTFC]

it really depends on how much fitness work oso has been able to do with this neurological issue.

[Ultra & Proud]

Arrogant levels of self-confidence plague this team. The Mavinga pass out of bounds in the first or second game of the season was another brilliant example. WE always have dudes trying to make passes and plays in more time than they have.

I've been saying this since 2018 but I figured with the amount of turnover and new managers that this would have been weeded out by now. Guess we'll see in 2023 as most of that 2017 squad will be gone.

[reggie]

the bill manning big club not showing the exit interviews live.im going to miss all the softball questions by the bloggers

[Graeme]

I think if he's healthy and fit, he'll see significant time. The issue is how hard he can work between now and then.

I hope he gets there. I would LOVE to see him play.

[Hala Hrvatska]

”Bet on yourself” - Fred van Vleet

Oso believes in himself and thinks he is going to drive the market here. I love it.

High risk, high reward. I like it also.

[leedsandTFC]

this from oso is also negotiation 101.

leave all options on the table.

[jloome]

the bill manning big club not showing the exit interviews live.im going to miss all the softball questions by the bloggers

"Bob, all told... do you think things could have gone better this year?"

"Bob, from your perspective... can we expect some roster changes in the offseason."

Please. You're lucky they're not showing it. It's intellectually demoralizing to anyone with a brain larger than a chipmunk.

[ag futbol]

Arrogant levels of self-confidence plague this team. The Mavinga pass out of bounds in the first or second game of the season was another brilliant example. WE always have dudes trying to make passes and plays in more time than they have.

I think "we played arrogantly" was my favorite expression of the 2021 season.

I hate to use them as an example but the way Mtl plays the ball out of the back makes us look conservative. Shows you what happens when you have team speed and mobile midfielders.

BB also seems mortally offended by any concept of a true target man. God forbid someone received the ball with their back to goal on the halfway line and just out muscled the opposing CB to establish possession. Or, actually established an aerial presence in the box.

We play for the pass in behind that is never there (especially now that Poz is gone). And teams know they can sit deep and counter because MB can’t break up the play.

Who is the quote from btw? Is it Perez?

[leedsandTFC]

Lorenzo Insigne: "Coming in, I knew it was going to be a difficult transition ... but next year we're going to start together. We're going to be united. We're going to stick together, it's going to be a great season ... and we know that next year, we're going to win many things."

[ensco]

this from oso is also negotiation 101.

leave all options on the table.

Except what he decided not to say (unless I missed it) is decidedly hardball, and not from the standard playbook

This is the pablum you usually see from a guy with 15 years with an organization: "We're talking. Everybody knows I bleed TFC red. I really hope we can work it out so that I can stay. I love the city, love it here."

I will edit to amend if he in fact said something like this, I am only seeing twitter snippets

[reggie]

Joshua Kloke
@joshuakloke
·
2m
Michael Bradley on whether he’ll be back with #TFCLive next season: “I think so.” Says more discussions with the team will happen in the off-season

whatever that means,does he not have a contract for next season?

[jloome]

Except what he decided not to say (unless I missed it) is decidedly hardball, and not from the standard playbook

This is the pablum you usually see from a guy with 15 years with an organization: "We're talking. Everybody knows I bleed TFC red. I really hope we can work it out so that I can stay. I love the city, love it here."

I will edit to amend if he in fact said something like this, I am only seeing twitter snippets

I don't think they've left him much choice. He reported talks were slow several months ago, then reiterated it last week. If your player stating it publicly doesn't change your approach, maybe the team doesn't want him back.

[ensco]

I don't think they've left him much choice. He reported talks were slow several months ago, then reiterated it last week. If your player stating it publicly doesn't change your approach, maybe the team doesn't want him back.

Agree. This is why I think he may well wind up elsewhere in MLS (eg Montreal). At any rate, I think he may take similar dollars elsewhere, just on a point of principle. Seems the only way he comes back is if he is great in Qatar, and then only because it'll be a stick up. (I have made this argument before.)

[jloome]

Joshua Kloke
@joshuakloke
·
2m
Michael Bradley on whether he’ll be back with #TFCLive next season: “I think so.” Says more discussions with the team will happen in the off-season

whatever that means,does he not have a contract for next season?

Option year, I think.

[ag futbol]

I’d like to hear what was offered. Because to my naked eye Osorio, a departed DP, and a few Italian are the only reason we didn’t average 0.50 ppg

And when he wasn’t on the field. We were useless.

[ag futbol]

Option year, I think.
If we actually give this guy a new contract while making all our other guys play out their deals, I will scream bloody murder.

[reggie]

i know the value of oso.but do we want to give a max tam to a 30 yr old who misses 10 games a year,and now has a head injury to boot

[leedsandTFC]

i know the value of oso.but do we want to give a max tam to a 30 yr old who misses 10 games a year,and now has a head injury to boot

this right here.

we've suffered badly in the past from giving aging players big contracts based on past performance.

[reggie]

this right here.

we've suffered badly in the past from giving aging players big contracts based on past performance.

its time for this club to put their scouting shoes on and find those 500k to 1 mil 25 yr old mids

[leedsandTFC]

its time for this club to put their scouting shoes on and find those 500k to 1 mil 25 yr old mids

100%

[jloome]

Who is the quote from btw? Is it Perez?

Ha! No, me after just about every game last year. They've played arrogantly since the Seba days, basically.

AS good as he's been for LA this year, Mark Delgado was repeatedly guilty of this shit last year, little one-touch dink passes without enough steam, no looks that aren't accurate, that kind of shit.

We are so careless in possession sometimes, and it just screams of arrogance, like Mavinga trying to laterally ping that ball to Shaffelburg and just skying it over him.

McNaughton in the game before he was pulled (Montreal?), holding the ball up and searching for second options, then trying to juke two pressing attackers. He did that several times later in the year.

I understand the need for confidence, but having a fucking cup of coffee in a league before you pull that shit.

The kids, in particular, gave up possession with ARROGANT passing, poor trapping and first touches. When I say arrogant passing, it was so common to see them one-touch misplayed passes that it was like watching someone my age play FIFA.

Jayden has HUUUUGE potential as a two-way midfielder, that's now obvious. Frankly, with his speed, ball control and closing ... I'd turn him into a defensive specialist first, then move him to two-way. He's not going to lose the skills and his defense is already okay but he offers nothing going forward and could use the adjustment time to pressure the ball very quickly when it hits our half.

But... he's fucking ARROGANT. He misplays simple passes constantly by trying to one-touch or dink them, he traps long balls in forcefully with the sole of his boot, a complete fucking no no as a "fundamental" of a first touch. His first step and acceleration are great, but he doesn't take the first obvious option, which given that his teammates are ALSO professionals is fucking stupid, as they're usually open.

He plays like he's playing FIFA in real life. The two-way responsibility made that harder and harder for him to do. Make him a DM for a while; he can improve his defending and learn to read the game properly. The further he is from the offensive zone right now, generally, the better.

I'd say Noble and Ayo both fall into this camp as well.

Thompson and Kerr both are occasionally overrun by speed and decisions, but both also show genuine flashes of responsible, sensible play AND creativity. I'd say the same is generally true of JMR. But the former three really need to shape the fuck up.

Our entire defense, at one point or another, played like it thought we were cup finalists. Chung, in his last major start for us, got caught high and beaten multiple times, apparently thinking lithe Brazilian wingers are lead-footed or something. O'Neill repeatedly made dangerous cross-box exit passes; they didn't generally hurt us but only because he got defensive help quickly.

Poz was a menace for the first third of the season... at both ends. He was our only danger man aside from Oso and Jimenez but in our end, his passing and tackling truly proved he's a number 10.

Even the Italians, with their ongoing effort to score Olimpicos off corners, sort of hit the "arrogant" trigger a few times.

The only guys who didn't were Oso, Michael (I mean, slow and occasionally surly I'll accept, but his workrate was insane), although he might qualify as arrogant just for thinking he can still play defense at 35, Jimenez and Bono. He just played arrogantly, even if he was humble about it. "I'm a professional fucking keeper with six years of experience but I think I'll just take my eye off a hard shot before I catch it." Jesus fucking Christ.

I think the "arrogance" convo has triggered me. I probably need to go have a cup of tea.

[jloome]

Oso says he won't make any decisions until after the world cup and confirms it was post-concussion syndrome.

https://www.tsn.ca/jonathan-osorio-recovering-from-post-concussion-syndrome-1.1861367

[SenorDingDong]

I agree with pushing MB further up the field next season and removing his defensive responsibilities.

He is still one of our best passers in the final 3rd and statistically one of the best passers in the league. It's too much now for him to defend and be a box to box CM though.

Obviously they still need some reinforcements in midfield so someone can actually sub on for him or vice versa.

[JoesphNdo]

I agree with pushing MB further up the field next season and removing his defensive responsibilities.

He is still one of our best passers in the final 3rd and statistically one of the best passers in the league. It's too much now for him to defend and be a box to box CM though.

Obviously they still need some reinforcements in midfield so someone can actually sub on for him or vice versa.

I have to go against the grain here. I think he's a really, really poor offensive and creative passer and the stats on offensive output over a long sample with us (Goals, assists, key passes) back that up.

I think he's at his best, passing wise, opening space off the ball to receive it (he touches the ball more than anyone on the pitch by far, he's maybe the best player the league has ever seen at this) and when he limits himself to short, easy passes to our creative players to keep the moves going. I think his game falls to pieces when he tries to get creative and that's him at his absolute worst - trying to be something he's not

[ag futbol]

Yeah, Michael Bradley can’t weight a through ball to save his life. He’s been slamming them over the end line for years to the point that I question as to whether he should even try. Anything in the final third besides a sideways pass.

I think we need to go out and find someone with a big engine that can cover the defensive part of the game. Bradley plays box-to-box (preferably off the bench) along with Kaye.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I have to go against the grain here. I think he's a really, really poor offensive and creative passer and the stats on offensive output over a long sample with us (Goals, assists, key passes) back that up.

I think he's at his best, passing wise, opening space off the ball to receive it (he touches the ball more than anyone on the pitch by far, he's maybe the best player the league has ever seen at this) and when he limits himself to short, easy passes to our creative players to keep the moves going. I think his game falls to pieces when he tries to get creative and that's him at his absolute worst - trying to be something he's not

Agreed. And at least he isn't on set pieces anymore with the Italians here now. Hated seeing him waltz over to take corners and free kicks when he simply doesn't have the technical ability for it.

He really is poor offensively. He can't create and his lack of goals and assists over the years show it. And he isn't dictating tempo ala Toni Kroos or Luka Modric at Madrid or Kova at Chelsea. And it no way can he be now considered an attacking midfielder, ala Oso or Poz...he simply doesn't have the legs or technical ability.

He needs to be a sub next year, come on late to help close out games...scenarios like when we were up 2-1 late vs San Jose and inexplicably BB put on Acharra and Shaff to try and close out the game...and then we gave up the tieing goal.

[Kamp Berg]

‘coach Bob Bradley said he will talk with Domenico Criscito during the next few weeks as to whether he’s committed to coming back’

Don’t like this quote from Buffery. WTF is going on?

[portu]

‘coach Bob Bradley said he will talk with Domenico Criscito during the next few weeks as to whether he’s committed to coming back’

Don’t like this quote from Buffery. WTF is going on?
Sounds like Criscito isn’t a fan to me

I want the over under on Bob getting fired next season. I think it’ll take less than 7 games.

Manning says the club is urgent but they’re still feebly inept and everyone is (finally) catching on. Manning will also be gone at the end of next season, probably a quiet ushering out the door as the season goes up on flames in July.

[SenorDingDong]

‘coach Bob Bradley said he will talk with Domenico Criscito during the next few weeks as to whether he’s committed to coming back’

Don’t like this quote from Buffery. WTF is going on?

I like Criscito, he is really close with Insigne. That said, its not like he's a foundational piece here for the next few years, he was always here for the short term.

It's possible MLS's intensity is just taking a toll on his body. We shall see, would love to have him for next year. He is currently at Disney World with his kids as per his Instagram.

If hes not committed no point keeping him. I'm sure we could find other defenders from SerieA.

As long as Berna and Insigne are committed that's what counts.

[Smokecell]

If Criscito were to be out, the offseason shopping list starts to get really long. Like, if we thought the Summer window was crazy/unprecedented, this window needs to completely eclipse that to field a contending team.

Easily:

2 GK
3 CB 2 Starters 1 Depth
2 LB Starter + depth
1 RB for depth
2-3 MF depending who stays/goes
1 ST...2 if you can move Jimenez

This is no simple task, and I have little confidence they make this all happen.

[ag futbol]

Sounds like Criscito isn’t a fan to me

I want the over under on Bob getting fired next season. I think it’ll take less than 7 games.

Manning says the club is urgent but they’re still feebly inept and everyone is (finally) catching on. Manning will also be gone at the end of next season, probably a quiet ushering out the door as the season goes up on flames in July.
I could see us being average out of the gate which could quell and immediate desire to hit the eject button on BB. But if we flounder out of the gate, I think your prediction is accurate.

[Ultra & Proud]

I could see us being average out of the gate which could quell and immediate desire to hit the eject button on BB. But if we flounder out of the gate, I think your prediction is accurate.
I bet we are just average enough to make no big changes. I think we'll be in the playoff positions come suummr but the lower ones (5 to 7).

[noxx98]

I'll hold off on judgement on some of these quotes until we get the videos or full quotes from articles. Kloke already deleted his tweet about MB returning for next year because it wasn't clear and reflective of what was said.

[leedsandTFC]

Sounds like Criscito isn’t a fan to me

I want the over under on Bob getting fired next season. I think it’ll take less than 7 games.

Manning says the club is urgent but they’re still feebly inept and everyone is (finally) catching on. Manning will also be gone at the end of next season, probably a quiet ushering out the door as the season goes up on flames in July.

1. No, it sounds like he's an almost 36 year old near the end of his career.
2. I'll bet you any amount of money that doesn't happen (7 games)

[leedsandTFC]

No jiminez, Bono, mavinga or westberg today

[Ultra & Proud]

No jiminez, Bono, mavinga or westberg today
The discarded ones.

[MikeForbes]

I wonder what will happen with Ayo. We are using (maybe wasting) a valuable roster spot on a player who scored twice this year and looked generally pretty bad.

[Ultra & Proud]

I wonder what will happen with Ayo. We are using (maybe wasting) a valuable roster spot on a player who scored twice this year and looked generally pretty bad.
Here's hoping the Whitecaps still want him.

[JoesphNdo]

https://twitter.com/benwright/status/1580241443255640064?t=IVpgcAUT5koxIQnFNRnDfw&s=19

Shaff confirmed leaving permanently in a surprise to nobody. I don't think he's incredible, but I do think cheap, home grown depth is a key to having a good squad in MLS

[rydermike]

Bradley is under regular contract not a potential option . He wasn't on the MLSPA list of potential FA's who are out of contract or have options
https://mlsplayers.org/news/2023-free-agent-list-release

[leedsandTFC]

Per Eric Giocometti, video from today will be on toronto fc .com soonish.

[jloome]

I could see us being average out of the gate which could quell and immediate desire to hit the eject button on BB. But if we flounder out of the gate, I think your prediction is accurate.

Depends how much we flounder. If we sign four of five or six key pieces and then are middle of the pack after 10 games, he's probably fine, as new lineups require adjustment periods.

But if we have another string of 4-0 losses to start the season, it'll be quick.

[Ultra & Proud]

Depends how much we flounder. If we sign four of five or six key pieces and then are middle of the pack after 10 games, he's probably fine, as new lineups require adjustment periods.

But if we have another string of 4-0 losses to start the season, it'll be quick.
BB will move to GM and appoint MB head coach with no badges.

I'm kidding...

Or am I?

[rydermike]

Shaff is gone. Nashville is definitely going to pick up the purchase option
https://twitter.com/benwright/status/1580241443255640064

[ensco]

BB will move to GM and appoint MB head coach with no badges.

I'm kidding...

Or am I?

Be warned. I used to put this theory on here, but got tiredof getting savaged for it.

[JoesphNdo]

Be warned. I used to put this theory on here, but got tiredof getting savaged for it.

Savaged for it being unrealistic, or for causing feelings of dread when you say it? My issue with this proposal is it is all too realistic

[ag futbol]

BB will move to GM and appoint MB head coach with no badges.

I'm kidding...

Or am I?
Coach has meddling track record at start of tenure at TFC. Coach becomes GM, puts new coach in to extend his runway.

Where have I seen this before… oh that’s right, Mo Johnston.

[reggie]

did manning have his end of the season presser, i dont see it online

[MikeForbes]

did manning have his end of the season presser, i dont see it online

I seen some quotes online. No video. Singh made it sound like they are gonna spend a lot less on this 3rd DP slot. Might be time to check out some strikers from Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands.

[ensco]

Savaged for it being unrealistic, or for causing feelings of dread when you say it? My issue with this proposal is it is all too realistic

I said this more or less the day after BB was signed, and then again at the beginning of the year. Got mostly slammed, accused of being ridiculous.

[leedsandTFC]

Be warned. I used to put this theory on here, but got tiredof getting savaged for it.

Well Bob Bradley said today he intends to be the head coach throughout his contract here

[Kamp Berg]

Not sure how accurate this is:

Jonathan Osorio Dec 31, 2022
Jayden Nelson Dec 31, 2022
Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty Dec 31, 2022
Chris Mavinga-Adebayor Dec 31, 2022
Doneil Henry Dec 31, 2022
Noble Okello Dec 31, 2022
Kadin Chung Nov 30, 2022 club option 2 years
Ifunanyachi Achara Dec 31, 2022
Quentin Westberg Dec 31, 2022
Themi Antonoglou Nov 30, 2022

[OgtheDim]

I thought we had to say who wasn't getting their option used within 2 days of the end of the season.

[rydermike]

Not sure how accurate this is:

Jonathan Osorio Dec 31, 2022
Jayden Nelson Dec 31, 2022
Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty Dec 31, 2022
Chris Mavinga-Adebayor Dec 31, 2022
Doneil Henry Dec 31, 2022
Noble Okello Dec 31, 2022
Kadin Chung Nov 30, 2022 club option 2 years
Ifunanyachi Achara Dec 31, 2022
Quentin Westberg Dec 31, 2022
Themi Antonoglou Nov 30, 2022

Chung is signed through 2023 with 24 and 25 options - https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-fc-sign-defender-kadin-chung
JMR has a 6-year contract - https://theathletic.com/2530082/2021/04/19/jahkeel-marshall-rutty-toronto-fc

[rydermike]

I thought we had to say who wasn't getting their option used within 2 days of the end of the season.

November 14 is the day they have until this season. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2022-mls-offseason-calendar-for-player-moves

Last year, it was December 1st when we announced it (our last game was Nov 7) https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-fc-announce-year-end-roster-decisions

[rydermike]

Expansion Draft rules:
Can protect 12 players
Homegrown players under 25 are exempt
Must protect 3 internationals
No Trade Clauses must be protected

We have 18 players eligible

My list:
1) Bernardeschi
2) Insigne
3) Jimenez
4) Laryea
5) Kaye
6) Bradley - for the anti-MB crew, he's gonna be protected, you all know they're going to (don't fight it) - plus probably has a NTC
7) Criscito
8) O'Neill
9) MacNaughton
10) Mavinga
11) Henry
12) Achara

Exempt: MarshallRutty, Luke Singh, Petrasso, Thompson, Okello, Shaff*, Antonoglou, Nelson, Akinola, Kerr, Perruzza, Mbongue
Not protected
1) Osorio - out of contract and free agent. won't be selected (Austin picked a FA in 2020, Joe Corona, he just signed with Houston a week later - was a waste of a pick)
2) Bono - out of contract and high salary
3) Ranjitsingh - third keeper
4) Auro - either going to be bought by Santos, or option declined (was shipped out by BB, he's not coming back)
5) Kadin Chung - he basically got sent to TFC2 and never returned, not in the team's plans
6) Westberg - pretty sure contract expired as well, just not FA (ReEntry Draft eligible)

With all our exempted players, it was really easy to basically decide who to protect. Heck, I think Henry signed a 6 month contract and I protected him because there were limited options.

Edit: Just re-read the rules. If Osorio gets picked, we lose the MLS FA rights for current teams. I'll probably swap him with Henry then.

[reggie]

manning s presser is up now.he sure thinks he is great:facepalm:

the good points
some of the bmo reno will stay increase seating
probs around 23k ssh next season
interest in JMR and JN abroad

everything else is mostly BS and has
no clue

[Red CB Toronto]

Chung is signed through 2023 with 24 and 25 options - https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-fc-sign-defender-kadin-chung
JMR has a 6-year contract - https://theathletic.com/2530082/2021/04/19/jahkeel-marshall-rutty-toronto-fc

Now that JMR is 18 I wonder what the current status is of a possible big time transfer is for him? An $1-3M transfer where he most likely would end up initially on a U-19 academy side, maybe the U23 PL2 squad is one thing, the $15-20M transfer that some have suggested is something totally different. The hype for him has been quite big as he did train with Liverpool and other EPL clubs last off-season, will be curious to see how this plays out especially after his 2022 season with the Reds?

[Ultra & Proud]

Now that JMR is 18 I wonder what the current status is of a possible big time transfer is for him? An $1-3M transfer where he most likely would end up initially on a U-19 academy side, maybe the U23 PL2 squad is one thing, the $15-20M transfer that some have suggested is something totally different. The hype for him has been quite big as he did train with Liverpool and other EPL clubs last off-season, will be curious to see how this plays out especially after his 2022 season with the Reds?
I didn't see it then and I still don't see it. Maybe somebody goes in for $1M or so as a roll of the dice but I can't really see much more.

[Ultra & Proud]

Strong evidence against that speculation: Nobody gets coaching jobs for 26 straight years if they are a complete doofus.
This is pretty telling. There's is a chance time could pass him by but his recent success at LAFC says otherwise currently.

[noxx98]

https://twitter.com/Eric_Giacometti/status/1580593388415352838
Eric Giacometti hinting that news is coming... NER released their roster decisions today, for reference.

[Ultra & Proud]

Thoughts on BB not thinking we need any midfielders? Surely we desperately need some?

Yes but we need the others first, especially GK since we have no starters left and defense since it's terrible. After that I would go CF and then mids, unless something pops up in the waiver draft.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Yes but we need the others first, especially GK since we have no starters left and defense since it's terrible. After that I would go CF and then mids, unless something pops up in the waiver draft.

Well, I hope we can do it...but even if we pull off getting all these guys, then gelling into a team will take quite a bit of time. Time we don't have if we start out of the gate really slow.

[reggie]

[QUOTE=Ultra & Proud;1972574]Yes but we need the others first, especially GK since we have no starters left and defense since it's terrible. After that I would go CF and then mids, unless something pops up in the waiver draft.

so many holes to fill.keeper.2 cbs maybe 2 fbs at least 2 mids and a striker...i doubt that happens in 1 window

[leedsandTFC]

I only listened to part of BB's interview however - he was asked "Do you think it's fair to make improvements up the spine of the team - striker, defence, goal keeper?" Bob answered with "That's very fair". So he didn't say he's comfortable with where the midfield was at. Also, given how many issues this team has, I don't think he could go out and list every single one - his interview was already 40 minutes long, he'd be there all day listing every issue.

yeah. those are the places where we need starters.

i reckon we'll bring in 1-3 players who can slot into CM (depending on if oso leaves)

[Hala Hrvatska]

yeah. those are the places where we need starters.

i reckon we'll bring in 1-3 players who can slot into CM (depending on if oso leaves)

yeah, definitely need them. Have a feeling Oso has made up his mind and is gone unfortunately.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I only listened to part of BB's interview however - he was asked "Do you think it's fair to make improvements up the spine of the team - striker, defence, goal keeper?" Bob answered with "That's very fair". So he didn't say he's comfortable with where the midfield was at. Also, given how many issues this team has, I don't think he could go out and list every single one - his interview was already 40 minutes long, he'd be there all day listing every issue.

That's true, good point.

Then the question was an incomplete one then. To me the "spine" includes the CM as a critical piece. And again at the risk of my comments being called deranged/crazy/moronic/clueless, (am I misisng any? and this is only from the last two days...lol) hear me out. The Reyes de Europa, Real won 5 CLs in 9 years with Caseimiro as the DM shielding everything in front of him. Its a critical role.

We just gave up our record tying goals against, part of that is our midfield getting overrun constantly. As my good friend Portu said, we have defensive liabilities out there, need to get that sorted out crucially.

I don't disagree we need keepers and D, given how bad defensively we are and leaking goals (4 goals against 4 times in the last what 6 games or so), but midfield is part of our problem and needs to get fixed too.

But its not all doom and gloom, Berna and Insigne are great up top and with a striker/target man to go with them will have us scoring a tonne.

[Ultra & Proud]

so many holes to fill.keeper.2 cbs maybe 2 fbs at least 2 mids and a striker...i doubt that happens in 1 window

If we have cap space it's doable but they have to hope for some good & "interested in he project" players from the waiver draft and free agent markets.

[leedsandTFC]

we're currently spending 1.9 M on 2 gks + Mavinga.

you can sign a great 1st choice Gk, a backup and 2 quality MLS CBs for those wages.

instead we've been getting terrible goalkeeping and 1 good game out of 5 from mavinga.

i'd imagine those are what bob was referring to when he talked about preexisting contracts hampering recruitment.

no one is touching westberg, mavinga or bono at those wages, and they had already used their buyout on dwyer (incredibly at 350K/ year).

let's look at last year's business and rate the signings based on how they performed based on expectations:

macnaughton- brought in as 4th choice CB, performed ably when playing in a good team, exposed when playing with young/ worse players. cheap. - Good Signing

O'neill- see macnaughton, but 3rd choice. does his job. needs to be playing with a CB better than him.- good signing

chung- not even first choice on TFC II at this point. bad signing (but cheap)

Jiminez- looked great until he ran out of steam, then looked uninterested, and struggled to link up with the italians, won't be here long term- bad signing

Salcedo- didn't look great, although was playing with multiple teenagers basically his whole time here. would have been. bad luck having to go back to mexico due to family health issues- bad signing (although i think he would have been great in a more senior/ good team)

Laryea- has looked very good- good signing

Criscito- looked very good- good signing

Bernardeschi- has bought in fully to the project and city and has looked the part- good signing

Insigne- has bought in fully to the project and city and has looked the part- good signing

MAK- hasn't looked great (been injured and hasnt had a run in a settled team), but is a proven top level MLS CM over the past 4 seasons. - gonna say good signing (he's fairly inexpensive and can be part of the team for years to come).

Doneil Henry- not match fit, but dirt cheap- bad signing

so out of 11 signings, i'd say 7 were good, and 4 bad (although 2 of the bad were dirt cheap and don't hinder us at all going forward, and one has already left, not hindering us too).

that's a pretty good hit rate, especially getting most of the bigger money signings right.

let's say we make 8 signings this offseason, the same rate would make 5 of them good signings. although they will be able to be more targeted this offseason as they have a better idea of what the we need.

[Joe Kool]

we're currently spending 1.9 M on 2 gks + Mavinga.

you can sign a great 1st choice Gk, a backup and 2 quality MLS CBs for those wages.

Pretty sure the problem has always been the availability of those quality MLS CB's and not whether we have money free to sign them. If they are quality, they are signed to another team usually already. If they are available then there is a reason and therefore not always quality. This seems like the area we just haven't been able to nail down most years of TFC's existence but crucial to get right.

[Ultra & Proud]

Laryea- has looked very good- good signing


So far this one would rank as a bad signing for me. At his new wages he looked much, much worse than before. Lots of our 4 goals against were from him being lost on his side and not covering for our also lost CBs.

But the team was poor. If he remains and refinds his form next season then he is a good signing but he has to consistently be 2020-2021 Richie to be worth that money.

[leedsandTFC]

So far this one would rank as a bad signing for me. At his new wages he looked much, much worse than before. Lots of our 4 goals against were from him being lost on his side and not covering for our also lost CBs.

But the team was poor. If he remains and refinds his form next season then he is a good signing but he has to consistently be 2020-2021 Richie to be worth that money.

i think he looked very good while the team was still in with a reasonable shout of playoffs, but fell off a cliff after (as did quite a few of our players).

[FootBallAZ]

someone mentioned bradley taking TAM downgrading from DP- the sad part is this resulted in nothing to show- in theory it seemed amazing - the fact that bill manning could make this work is disheartening - hope this isnt where the TAM deal had MB powers attached to it lol

[Ultra & Proud]

Bob in the presser just felt the need to say that we all need to watch soccer games a little closer , because we miss a lot

He wasn't wrong though.

[Section 223]

someone mentioned bradley taking TAM downgrading from DP- the sad part is this resulted in nothing to show- in theory it seemed amazing - the fact that bill manning could make this work is disheartening - hope this isnt where the TAM deal had MB powers attached to it lol
Fans make Michael out to be a hero for this DP to TAM wage reduction but the truth is that no team on earth was paying Michael Bradley 2 million a year to play soccer.(correction maybe Saudi Arabia)

[Hala Hrvatska]

fans make michael out to be a hero for this dp to tam wage reduction but the truth is that no team on earth was paying michael bradley 2 million a year to play soccer.(correction maybe saudi arabia)

^^^^^^^^^ this.

[Hala Hrvatska]

So far this one would rank as a bad signing for me. At his new wages he looked much, much worse than before. Lots of our 4 goals against were from him being lost on his side and not covering for our also lost CBs.

But the team was poor. If he remains and refinds his form next season then he is a good signing but he has to consistently be 2020-2021 Richie to be worth that money.

Yeah, I miss the old Richie who would take guys on and get in the box and cause havoc...drawing penalties and getting assists and occasionally even getting a goal or two.

Not sure what happened to him. Was good at the start but then tailed off.

Am a big fan of his though, hope he turns it around. We need that RB spot to be solid.

[leedsandTFC]

https://twitter.com/MLSTransfers/status/1577075819100270592

apparently teams interested in Justen Glad from RSL.

be shocked if we weren't one of them.

[Canary10]

Fans make Michael out to be a hero for this DP to TAM wage reduction but the truth is that no team on earth was paying Michael Bradley 2 million a year to play soccer.(correction maybe Saudi Arabia)

I thought the situation was Michael and TFC had a contract to pay him $2 million and he agreed to re-negotiate a reduction to TAM. Is that wrong?

[Section 223]

I thought the situation was Michael and TFC had a contract to pay him $2 million and he agreed to re-negotiate a reduction to TAM. Is that wrong?
Michael Bradley has been paid 1.6 million or maximum Tam the last two years, he is in the top 10 percentile in terms of wages in the league, not a chance in hell anyone out there can rate him even close to top 10 in overall quality in the league, complete waste of resources by MLSE, I’m certain Jonathan Osorio goes home every night and says to himself “Michael Bradley making twice what I am, I gotta get the hell out of here “

[Canary10]

Michael Bradley has been paid 1.6 million or maximum Tam the last two years, he is in the top 10 percentile in terms of wages in the league, not a chance in hell anyone out there can rate him even close to top 10 in overall quality in the league, complete waste of resources by MLSE, I’m certain Jonathan Osorio goes home every night and says to himself “Michael Bradley making twice what I am, I gotta get the hell out of here “

Did he not voluntarily re-negotiate a contract that was guaranteed to pay him $2 million to a lower amount? That's my question.

[Ultra & Proud]

Michael Bradley has been paid 1.6 million or maximum Tam the last two years, he is in the top 10 percentile in terms of wages in the league, not a chance in hell anyone out there can rate him even close to top 10 in overall quality in the league, complete waste of resources by MLSE, I’m certain Jonathan Osorio goes home every night and says to himself “Michael Bradley making twice what I am, I gotta get the hell out of here “
MB makes about $500K more than Osorio right now and no matter what, he managed to stay on the field.

He is probably a top 50 paid player in MLS and tied with a large bunch of players at $1.6M but there's a lot of loafers like Costa & Hunou making near double what MB gets. I get it, he is past his prime but you make it out like we gave a max TAM to Achara or something.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/MLSTransfers/status/1577075819100270592

apparently teams interested in Justen Glad from RSL.

be shocked if we weren't one of them.

This is the kind of guy we should be all over. Montreal has done really well identifying and trading for young-ish MLS players and Glad definitely fits the bill.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Michael Bradley has been paid 1.6 million or maximum Tam the last two years, he is in the top 10 percentile in terms of wages in the league, not a chance in hell anyone out there can rate him even close to top 10 in overall quality in the league, complete waste of resources by MLSE, I’m certain Jonathan Osorio goes home every night and says to himself “Michael Bradley making twice what I am, I gotta get the hell out of here “

Exactly. And make no mistake about it, Oso is pissed seeing MB continue to get paid way more than him when Oso is much better and younger than him. And now is looking to try and move overseas and/or somewhere else in the league if he doesn't get this last big payday. Apparently Manning/BB/MB don't want to pay Oso what he deserves for all his years of loyal service and great production and that's why Oso is playing hardball now. Good for him, he has to take care of #1.

PS brother, you need to post alot more. Love your posts, great knowledge and you tell it like it is. Cheers!

[Section 223]

Did he not voluntarily re-negotiate a contract that was guaranteed to pay him $2 million to a lower amount? That's my question.
This organization foolishly put a clause in Michael Bradley’s contract that if we would have won MLS cup on 2019 Bradley would be paid DP wages for the next three years, thankfully we lost that game , so the fine gents running this team gave Bradley maximum TAM while pissing off Osorio who’s on 700,000

[Ultra & Proud]

so the fine gents running this team gave Bradley maximum TAM while pissing off Osorio who’s on 700,000





Jonathan Osorio (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/12001/)
M
30
CA

$1,000,000
$1,026,250







Michael Bradley (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/15151/)
M
35
US

$1,500,000
$1,500,000

[Hala Hrvatska]

Do we have a list of the current salaries? Please and thank you.

[Canary10]

This organization foolishly put a clause in Michael Bradley’s contract that if we would have won MLS cup on 2019 Bradley would be paid DP wages for the next three years, thankfully we lost that game , so the fine gents running this team gave Bradley maximum TAM while pissing off Osorio who’s on 700,000

Ok, so he didn't take a voluntary pay cut on a guaranteed contract? That's all I've been asking. The narrative that went around is that he did. I honestly don't know if it's true or not.

[Ultra & Proud]

Do we have a list of the current salaries? Please and thank you.
It's been out since summer by the MLSPA.

[portu]

This organization foolishly put a clause in Michael Bradley’s contract that if we would have won MLS cup on 2019 Bradley would be paid DP wages for the next three years, thankfully we lost that game , so the fine gents running this team gave Bradley maximum TAM while pissing off Osorio who’s on 700,000
Holy fucking shit.

[Section 223]

MB makes about $500K more than Osorio right now and no matter what, he managed to stay on the field.

He is probably a top 50 paid player in MLS and tied with a large bunch of players at $1.6M but there's a lot of loafers like Costa & Hunou making near double what MB gets. I get it, he is past his prime but you make it out like we gave a max TAM to Achara or something.
When Bradley signed for maximum TAM in 2019 Oso was on 700,000 his wages yes are at 1 million now, as far as Bradley staying on the field, what does he contribute? 34 games played goal and assist totals are woeful and has been posted by my friend Hala countless mistakes leading to direct goals against. Look at this teams record when Oso is not in the lineup it’s dismal. Oso should be on maximum TAM and Bradley should be on the bench coming in when the game has already been decided making about $150,000. That would be fair to me.

[portu]

Honestly I would rather pay Oso the Bradley money.

If we’re so tight with the cap because we need to spend on other positions they should buy out Bradley and give Oso max TAM.

Oso isn’t worth DP money, but he is 100% a max TAM player if there ever was one.

Note: This obviously a very unique situation, but if they don’t sign Oso because they can’t afford him and Bradley is still eating stupid wages I will call for BB’s head (which I’m holding off on because I actually think he could be the perfect *coach*).

[Ultra & Proud]

Looking at our salary page, I am not sure $358K on O'Neill as a #3 CB (at best) is good use of cap space.

[ag futbol]

Looking at our salary page, I am not sure $358K on O'Neill as a #3 CB (at best) is good use of cap space.
I don’t mind it. It’s a different league these days and knowing the first guy off the bench isn’t a tire fire makes a lot of sense to me.

[Section 223]

Honestly I would rather pay Oso the Bradley money.

If we’re so tight with the cap because we need to spend on other positions they should buy out Bradley and give Oso max TAM.

Oso isn’t worth DP money, but he is 100% a max TAM player if there ever was one.

Note: This obviously a very unique situation, but if they don’t sign Oso because they can’t afford him and Bradley is still eating stupid wages I will call for BB’s head (which I’m holding off on because I actually think he could be the perfect *coach*).
I’m sure Oso will be offered max TAM wages, if he accepts, that’s another question, but getting Michael Bradley’s contract down to league minimum should be one of the top priorities this off season

[noxx98]

This organization foolishly put a clause in Michael Bradley’s contract that if we would have won MLS cup on 2019 Bradley would be paid DP wages for the next three years, thankfully we lost that game , so the fine gents running this team gave Bradley maximum TAM while pissing off Osorio who’s on 700,000
This is not true at all. It was a one year option at DP wages not three.
The vast majority of commenters on this forum were in favour of the MB TAM extension.
There were rumblings that other teams would be interested in Bradley on a low DP salary.
It has never been reported outside of random posters on this forum that Oso is upset that Bradley makes more money than him.

[MikeForbes]

Dear Twitter gods, please give us an actual rumor.

[noxx98]

Here's Kloke in 2019 saying that from conversations around the league, expect plenty of interest from other MLS teams if Bradley was willing to come in at $1.5M (max TAM) https://theathletic.com/1079562/2019/07/17/with-his-contract-ending-what-does-michael-bradleys-future-look-like-with-toronto-fc/

Here's Tenorio saying TFC hold an option on Bradley for 2020 that is automatically exercised if TFC win the 2019 MLS cup (note - it doesn't say what the salary would have been, but we can assume it was DP level). https://theathletic.com/1108954/2019/07/31/mls-expansion-all-star-board-of-governors-cba-negotiations/

Here's Kloke saying it's a 3 year deal with a club option for 2023 (that was apparently exercised already) https://theathletic.com/1454970/2019/12/12/despite-risks-michael-bradleys-signing-makes-perfect-sense-for-tfc/

[leedsandTFC]

Can we have a michael Bradley thread and not do that bickering here here?

[jloome]

Can we have a michael Bradley thread and not do that bickering here here?

Yep, last time I checked the thread title wasn't "Let's attack Michael Bradley."

On the contract point, club options are mutual under FIFA regs (which is why Camillo Sanvezzo couldn't be forced to stay in Vancouver). So the club can't mutually exercise it, giving Bradley the opportunity to turn it down if he wants. I know, that's unlikely to happen.

I'm wondering who we're eyeing in-league, as Manning seemed to stress going after "Drew Moor and Stephen Beitashour" types.

[jloome]

Dear Twitter gods, please give us an actual rumor.

I wonder how much of the agent leak stuff is aimed at getting deals done quicker or warding off competition. I do imagine we'll see a lot more when the final contract release day comes up next month. Stuff will start strategically flying at that point.

[ag futbol]

Yep, last time I checked the thread title wasn't "Let's attack Michael Bradley."

On the contract point, club options are mutual under FIFA regs (which is why Camillo Sanvezzo couldn't be forced to stay in Vancouver). So the club can't mutually exercise it, giving Bradley the opportunity to turn it down if he wants. I know, that's unlikely to happen.

I'm wondering who we're eyeing in-league, as Manning seemed to stress going after "Drew Moor and Stephen Beitashour" types.
I thought the point of contention with Camilo and others was MULTIPLE one year extensions not that they had to be mutually agree upon when exercised. I think those are definitely a no-no under labour laws and FIFA doesn’t permit them either

[OgtheDim]

MB is the focal point of any offseason build.

He either reduced his role, changes his role or the team continues to revolve all attacks starting with him.

[TFC/Everton]

Michael Bradley is not the problem.

[jloome]

Michael Bradley is not the problem.

As much as I hope we sign a couple of effective central midfielders in the offseason, we need a whole new defense and a new goalie before anything.

I do think the system we currently seem to usually play opens us up to a lot of odd-man breaks, and we would do well to sign a defensive midfielder, a specialist who sits back there rather than a three-way pivot.

[FootBallAZ]

Michael Bradley is not the problem.

Yea well tell that to Perez
And midfield of oso and Marky for 7 games that played fluid and pushed the ball up instead of turning and giving it to a goalie who can't make a pass.

[FootBallAZ]

Michael Bradley is the problem.

Fixed.

[leedsandTFC]

Michael Bradley led the league in completed passes, progressive passes and line breaking passes.

He looked elite in the few games when be had oso and the italians around him.

Does he need a reduced role? Yes.

Do I think he'll get it? Yes, unless we have another year of injuries to all other midfielders not named Michael Bradley.

remember that we have had okello, priso, oso, kaye and bradley to fit into 2-3 CM roles.

okello missed almost the entire season through injury, oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes, priso was returning from injury and frankly looked rusty and not great in the games he played and kaye was injured for most his time here.

bradley was only playing by virtue of being the only CM fit most the time, bob even said in his post philly interview that the idea was not to play MB this much but it was more out of necessity.

i agree he shouldnt be starting every week next year. i also think he won't, assuming we bring in suitable depth.

A MB starting 22-27 games is a huge asset for the club.

[los sonadores]

Yep, last time I checked the thread title wasn't "Let's attack Michael Bradley."

On the contract point, club options are mutual under FIFA regs (which is why Camillo Sanvezzo couldn't be forced to stay in Vancouver). So the club can't mutually exercise it, giving Bradley the opportunity to turn it down if he wants. I know, that's unlikely to happen.

I'm wondering who we're eyeing in-league, as Manning seemed to stress going after "Drew Moor and Stephen Beitashour" types.

Whatever Micheal Bradley’s play over the past few years, he’s been one of the most intelligent and thoughtful sports figures ever to grace this too often crummy city. Also one of the few to express real love and concern for this place.

Many players in all the various Toronto teams over the years have been brilliant in their play but pretty dumb and worse as public figures. I think anyone who obsesses over attacking Bradley’s character from behind their screens so far removed from reality must have truly pitiful and small lives. (And I’m not talking about being critical of his football, but instead some other bizarre phenomenon found on these boards.)

Yeah, I wonder too about these Moor and Beitashour types Manning speaks of. I get that was a successful strategy here before but is it still and who is out there that can be acquired?

[James17930]

Sorry to change the topic here, but I haven't been paying full attention to the team's comings and goings in the last month or so ...

Did something happen with Insigne? I think I saw something where he was unhappy being subbed off in the Miami game or something? And now it looks like he hasn't posted on social media for about 2 weeks?

Is something going down?

[ensco]

I think we all understand each other, and there is actually pretty high level of agreement on who and what we are. Face it, a lot of us are worried about BB, but most everyone knows that we have to stay the course. 4 managers in 4 years wouldn't be a roadmap to success.

Most arguments now are just a function of everyone being pissed off at what happened here.

I am putting TFC in a box for two months after locker cleanout day. I am heading to the CMNT thread on this board if others go there (mods, you might want to think about moving that thread to the main board, until Dec 18 - as an exception?), or the Voyageurs board (if they don't).

Trying to get WC discussion properly started. Above is from 3 days ago, before the Kingmans fight scene started.

Anybody interested in joining me over there?

[Canary10]

Trying to get WC discussion properly started. Above is from 3 days ago, before the Kingmans fight scene started.

Anybody interested in joining me over there?

Yes, I'm ready for World Cup discussion. I found it hard to care that much about TFC this year anyway for obvious reasons with the team we were fielding, and the excitement of Canada being in the World Cup.

[Canary10]

Whatever Micheal Bradley’s play over the past few years, he’s been one of the most intelligent and thoughtful sports figures ever to grace this too often crummy city. Also one of the few to express real love and concern for this place.

Many players in all the various Toronto teams over the years have been brilliant in their play but pretty dumb and worse as public figures. I think anyone who obsesses over attacking Bradley’s character from behind their screens so far removed from reality must have truly pitiful and small lives. (And I’m not talking about being critical of his football, but instead some other bizarre phenomenon found on these boards.)

Yeah, I wonder too about these Moor and Beitashour types Manning speaks of. I get that was a successful strategy here before but is it still and who is out there that can be acquired?

At the risk of belabouring the pointless Michael Bradley discussion, the bolded is very true. My wife's cousin is his neighbour, and Michael is highly committed to Toronto. He's rare. His integrity shouldn't be in question.

[Ultra & Proud]

Michael Bradley led the league in completed passes, progressive passes and line breaking passes.

He looked elite in the few games when be had oso and the italians around him.

Does he need a reduced role? Yes.

What this says to me is that he would be a perfect Cheyrou type to come into a match later on when & if we're having trouble breaking a team down, not as a DM, but as a more forward mid with less defensive responsibilities.

There is definitely room for that and it's something we haven't had since Cheyrou retired.

[leedsandTFC]

Sorry to change the topic here, but I haven't been paying full attention to the team's comings and goings in the last month or so ...

Did something happen with Insigne? I think I saw something where he was unhappy being subbed off in the Miami game or something? And now it looks like he hasn't posted on social media for about 2 weeks?

Is something going down?
He seems very committed.

Was at end of year media availability and spoke very optimistically about next season, and praised Bob as a coach.

[ag futbol]

At the risk of belabouring the pointless Michael Bradley discussion, the bolded is very true. My wife's cousin is his neighbour, and Michael is highly committed to Toronto. He's rare. His integrity shouldn't be in question.
I wouldn’t question it either but for the good of all involved the right thing needs to be done here. MB was not the reason we failed this season but he is clearly slowing down. I don’t think a 35 going on 36 version of MB playing every minute of every game is good for the player or his legacy.

Imagine the sadness of any Italian knowing Pirlo played for NYCFC. Tell me all involved would rather not have that cleansed from memory.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yea well tell that to Perez.

And where's he managing now?

[James17930]

He seems very committed.

Was at end of year media availability and spoke very optimistically about next season, and praised Bob as a coach.

Okay, good. Thanks.

[Canary10]

I wouldn’t question it either but for the good of all involved the right thing needs to be done here. MB was not the reason we failed this season but he is clearly slowing down. I don’t think a 35 going on 36 version of MB playing every minute of every game is good for the player or his legacy.

Imagine the sadness of any Italian knowing Pirlo played for NYCFC. Tell me all involved would rather not have that cleansed from memory.

Yeah, his play should be questioned. Just not his commitment.

[Oldtimer]

What this says to me is that he would be a perfect Cheyrou type to come into a match later on when & if we're having trouble breaking a team down, not as a DM, but as a more forward mid with less defensive responsibilities.

There is definitely room for that and it's something we haven't had since Cheyrou retired.

That's a really good point, one possible direction that should be considered.

[Smokecell]

A Friday seems like an appropriate day to reveal who's on their way out of TO. Maybe we'll get some news today?

[leedsandTFC]

Yea well tell that to Perez
And midfield of oso and Marky for 7 games that played fluid and pushed the ball up instead of turning and giving it to a goalie who can't make a pass.

well delgado declined badly in his last year here and was a turnover machine and oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes this year.

[FootBallAZ]

And where's he managing now?


you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.

Perez now is not coaching but did stints with real madrid and barca recently-

am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.

Further more- you do see all new comers always defer to bradley instead of moving the ball forward- the one time i recall LI brushed off bradley is when osorio was playing and was clearly the better option to push the pace and move the ball forward.


I answered where perez is now- you sound rigid in your way of thinking- because a former coach who was hired by TFC management - had the courage to sit Bradley and show us that a midfield of osorio and marky worked very well versus an older aging player, who plays the ball backwards more times than not or stops and stands to make a pass.

furthermore- to over look the fact that multiple of people on this board pointed out this clear fact.

and to relate to your way of thinking.

Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?

you see what i did-its pretty simple to do - when you dont have anything meaningful to add to the conversation and try to shut down the narrative of the plain fact that bradley is the issue ( he had great stats- playing almost the same minutes as other starting goalies while stripping the mid-field depth to be dependent on someone who shouldnt be playing full 90 minutes, especially in a 3-0 or 4-0 game with 20 minutes left- when its about the "youth" movement.)


i kindly ask that you block me if you cannot refrain from responding and/or adding meaningful talking points.


Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?

[leedsandTFC]

you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.

Perez now is not coaching but did stints with real madrid and barca recently-

am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.

Further more- you do see all new comers always defer to bradley instead of moving the ball forward- the one time i recall LI brushed off bradley is when osorio was playing and was clearly the better option to push the pace and move the ball forward.


I answered where perez is now- you sound rigid in your way of thinking- because a former coach who was hired by TFC management - had the courage to sit Bradley and show us that a midfield of osorio and marky worked very well versus an older aging player, who plays the ball backwards more times than not or stops and stands to make a pass.

furthermore- to over look the fact that multiple of people on this board pointed out this clear fact.

and to relate to your way of thinking.

Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?

you see what i did-its pretty simple to do - when you dont have anything meaningful to add to the conversation and try to shut down the narrative of the plain fact that bradley is the issue ( he had great stats- playing almost the same minutes as other starting goalies while stripping the mid-field depth to be dependent on someone who shouldnt be playing full 90 minutes, especially in a 3-0 or 4-0 game with 20 minutes left- when its about the "youth" movement.


i kindly ask that you block me if you cannot refrain from responding and/or adding meaningful talking points.


Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?

michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.

[jloome]

michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.

I have issues with some of his defensive and offensive zone numbers, but his central number eight numbers were still pretty elite.

His issue is range and having to play as a two-way mid for 90 mins. By min 66 he usually looks pretty gassed defensively.

Also, although Bob seems to rotate the central three as a triangle, it often didn't seem to work and no one was deep enough, even when we had Oso, Poz and Kaye in there. The default seemed to be Michael dropping back as a defacto number six quite often, which he just can't play. He doesn't have the speed to cut off and intercept passes, to break up passing lanes, and he's never been a particularly good marker.

He has to be a number eight. If we're using him as a six or 10 half the time, he becomes a liability and odd moments when it really matters, such as when the defense is overloaded on one side, or caught high in transition.

Again, that goes directly to him playing constantly, all the time. More midfield depth and that won't happen.

[FootBallAZ]

well delgado declined badly in his last year here and was a turnover machine and oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes this year.


I think you are missing the point- its not about the two players specifically- but more about their style of playing versus that of bradley- i dont need marky to play for TFC anyone who can move the ball , keep the pace, not play the ball backwards and stand still while trying to make a pass.

i am simple person! im not asking for what TFC had - but more specifically to the type of mid-fielder TFC needs which is not Bradley especially when Bono is playing.

[Ultra & Proud]

you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.

If this is true now then how did Bradley lead MLS is progressive and line breaking passing? Now I am not saying he is the key to success but I also don't see him as some black hole that if removed from the line up in 2022 we would automatically become playoff bound.


am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.

I said that because Perez is brought up here and there as some tactical mastermind because he sat Bradley for a few minutes. It's not like he glued him to the bench and it's also not like he made us somehow a good team in his time yet he is name dropped as he had the answers. If he was as good as some perceive then he would be employed as he is a youngish manager with some solid connections as you mentioned.

As for how the team can be improved I said that in a comment on this page about MB doing the offensive Cheyrou-type sub role instead of a starting DM.



and to relate to your way of thinking.

Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?
Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?


First being a player means you get old and have to retire from playing as you lose it, like Seba. For the other two, Jozy playing for Puebla currently and doing alright and Zlatan playing in Milan but he is injured still I beleive.

Same can't be said for middle aged managers. It's apples and oranges.

[jloome]

A Friday seems like an appropriate day to reveal who's on their way out of TO. Maybe we'll get some news today?

Too early, I think. My sense of BB is that he'll pull apart game performances for several weeks, try to compare where they broke down each week with their stated objectives and training at the time, then compare it with what he thinks of them as individuals willing to buy in and learn from him.

That doesn't mean he'll necessarily get the right answers, just that he's not an off-the-cuff guy.

[FootBallAZ]

michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.


stats are only stats if you arent really taking into consideration the play on field- which has shown he passes the ball back a lot of time- in 2022 he played almost as the last man-so options would be limited.

if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season

[leedsandTFC]

stats are only stats if you arent really taking into consideration the play on field- which has shown he passes the ball back a lot of time- in 2022 he played almost as the last man-so options would be limited.

if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season

yes, stats show you how each player actually performed this year, as opposed to how you feel they did.

teams build entire title winning rosters based on stats.

[Ultra & Proud]

I have issues with some of his defensive and offensive zone numbers, but his central number eight numbers were still pretty elite.

His issue is range and having to play as a two-way mid for 90 mins. By min 66 he usually looks pretty gassed defensively.

Also, although Bob seems to rotate the central three as a triangle, it often didn't seem to work and no one was deep enough, even when we had Oso, Poz and Kaye in there. The default seemed to be Michael dropping back as a defacto number six quite often, which he just can't play. He doesn't have the speed to cut off and intercept passes, to break up passing lanes, and he's never been a particularly good marker.

He has to be a number eight. If we're using him as a six or 10 half the time, he becomes a liability and odd moments when it really matters, such as when the defense is overloaded on one side, or caught high in transition.

Again, that goes directly to him playing constantly, all the time. More midfield depth and that won't happen.

I agree with this but I don't even see him as being an 8 or any number really. An 8 if we had to pick but I would see him as a "we are losing by a goal, it's the 80th minute, we're getting nothing going, toss him in a midfield four to 'press' high and try to win a ball in transition to make use of a possible line breaking pass".

That's probably never going to happen but that would be his best use. That and starting in the VC and maybe a few random matches depending on schedule, injury status of starters.

[FootBallAZ]

yes, stats show you how each player actually performed this year, as opposed to how you feel they did.

teams build entire title winning rosters based on stats.



Do you have stats that point out bradley's turn over rate, passes that were skyrocketed out the field or impact on a pass leading to a goal?

if so could you kindly share- Stats need to have some meaning other than - he made high % passes, you understand playing minutes like he was a goalie will also inflate the percentage of completed passes due to the fact he is always on the field.

I use SPSS on a daily- I work with stats- I understand what you are saying but there is more to it than just the raw numbers good sir

[Ultra & Proud]

if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season

I see it but also I recognize MB isn't a naive player. He knows our defense and Bono are questionable. Lots of times when he messed up situations like this I think at least some of it stems from being of two minds. There's a slight hesitation from him usually and it leads to him losing possession. Lack of confidence in those behind him mostly and that's why he was better with the Italians and a midfield of Oso + MAK that one match. Same idea as I mentioned with our CBs and Bono; when they see him muff a 20 yard shot right at his face then it leads them to over commit and try to do too much to cover every angle and they aren't that quality so they get pulled out of position. It's a team of XI and we need better pieces to have all facets work better and we didn't have that in 2022.

But I still think MB best for the offensive sub role. Maybe a midfield clogger if we are up by one late on or hanging onto a draw away.

[Hala Hrvatska]

And where's he managing now?

He was just recently spending time with Real and Barca observing and absorbing more knowledge and ready to make the next step. I think I saw a tweet somewhere about that.

He's also been in Real's youth teams before, so perhaps will be somewhere in Spain.

I for one, really liked him, and wish we would have made him permanent here.

[FootBallAZ]

I see it but also I recognize MB isn't a naive player. He knows our defense and Bono are questionable. Lots of times when he messed up situations like this I think at least some of it stems from being of two minds. There's a slight hesitation from him usually and it leads to him losing possession. Lack of confidence in those behind him mostly and that's why he was better with the Italians and a midfield of Oso + MAK that one match. Same idea as I mentioned with our CBs and Bono; when they see him muff a 20 yard shot right at his face then it leads them to over commit and try to do too much to cover every angle and they aren't that quality so they get pulled out of position. It's a team of XI and we need better pieces to have all facets work better and we didn't have that in 2022.

But I still think MB best for the offensive sub role. Maybe a midfield clogger if we are up by one late on or hanging onto a draw away.


appreciate your response! I agree regarding the role.

I think the bigger issue maybe the connection between team morale and whats said within a team vs what gets reported back to coaching- i think this could be negatively impacting the team morale- as we have heard over the past two seasons there has been a fracture and two groups be developed on the team.

I guess for me at this point is to try something different where BOB isnt involved in every team aspect - as a player I would feel highly uncomfortable knowing a player is getting paid more than what I would be valued(Oso) and speaking freely could cost an opportunity or career.

the other thing is the management specifically Bill Manning seems like he is better than us supporters, knows more and doesnt need to be transparent with us(lack of marketing is understated) which comes to BOB who seems very rigid in his view and maybe in his personality and assessment of others.

Lawrence issue doesnt make any sense- my bro works with his family member as well -and the whole situation doesnt seem it was played in a practical/fair way to the team and player - considering lawrence is connected to bill manning

[Ultra & Proud]

He was just recently spending time with Real and Barca observing and absorbing more knowledge and ready to make the next step. I think I saw a tweet somewhere about that.

He's also been in Real's youth teams before, so perhaps will be somewhere in Spain.

I for one, really liked him, and wish we would have made him permanent here.

I was never sold on him. He seems more an assistant to me. Has more of that educator, academy, collegiate thing going on. Not sure a player like Insigne would value his tactics lessons on the black board.

He would probably be a good MLS Next Pro manager though.

[Ultra & Proud]

Lawrence issue doesnt make any sense- my bro works with his family member as well -and the whole situation doesnt seem it was played in a practical/fair way to the team and player - considering lawrence is connected to bill manning
Now I don't know in TFC's case but as a person who has worked in places with rotating staffs, the only thing I can figure is that they knew they were going to try this youth movement thing and it doesn't set the best example to kids if any team member is allowed special treatment (missing training for personal businesses). People have said on here how Oso must be mad MB makes more. Now imagine a young guy running tons of KMs on a Wednesday in training while Lawrence is off doing business trips and also getting paid way more then he is. Then he shows up Saturday and we still look a mess at the back. I've seen these types of situations in a few workplaces my bosses own and it usually has lead to clean outs of staff by choice or dismissal and restarting from scratch.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I was never sold on him. He seems more an assistant to me. Has more of that educator, academy, collegiate thing going on. Not sure a player like Insigne would value his tactics lessons on the black board.

He would probably be a good MLS Next Pro manager though.

The time spent at Real definitely would have Insigne impressed. And guys like Insigne don't need lessons about tactics anyways, he's seen and done it all, just give him the ball and get out of the way...)

Anyways, he'll surface somewhere. Observing clubs like Real day to day with the master Carlo Ancelotti is invaluable. And the one thing I do respect about Perez he tried to change things up and really, had the cojones to take off MB and give Priso a shot. Priso looked very good until unfortunately got hurt.

[Ultra & Proud]

The time spent at Real definitely would have Insigne impressed. And guys like Insigne don't need lessons about tactics anyways, he's seen and done it all, just give him the ball and get out of the way...)

Not sure about that. If that was the case people could say they hit the jackpot if they hired Armas as he was an assistant with Man United and worked directly under Ragnick and with Ronaldo.

[jloome]

Ema Boateng's option was not picked up in New England despite four goals, six assists in spot duty.

https://www.thebentmusket.com/2022/10/14/23403108/bruce-arena-emmanuel-boateng-option-number-higher

[ag futbol]

yes, stats show you how each player actually performed this year, as opposed to how you feel they did.

teams build entire title winning rosters based on stats.
But to be fair, in quoting his passing numbers alone isn’t a complete picture. The things people are pointing out re: limitations in his game today, are also observed in the wider statistical set.

The interpretation of statistics by professionals to build rosters are different than the ones laymen like us use to discuss things and it’s changing all the time. Baseball went through this, basketball went through this, and soccer will go through iterations of it too. You can still point to a baseball that bats 400 or a striker who scores 30 a year. But who is great / effective at the margin? That’s always evolving.

So I don’t think we can look just at passing stats and say Bradley is one of the best midfielders in MLS today. Not saying he is terrible but if we were to ask “is Michael Bradley a leading midfielder in MLS today?” I think it’s fair to say answer in most quarters would be no.

[leedsandTFC]

Do you have stats that point out bradley's turn over rate, passes that were skyrocketed out the field or impact on a pass leading to a goal?

if so could you kindly share- Stats need to have some meaning other than - he made high % passes, you understand playing minutes like he was a goalie will also inflate the percentage of completed passes due to the fact he is always on the field.

I use SPSS on a daily- I work with stats- I understand what you are saying but there is more to it than just the raw numbers good sir
His pass completion rate is one of the highest in the league.

[Ultra & Proud]

So I don’t think we can look just at passing stats and say Bradley is one of the best midfielders in MLS today. Not saying he is terrible but if we were to ask “is Michael Bradley a leading midfielder in MLS today?” I think it’s fair to say answer in most quarters would be no.
I don't think he is one of the best mids in MLS today but I still think he is a guy that can do a job in a smaller role. He will get paid a lot for that role but that's how it goes sometimes. We've paid others more to barely play when we actually needed them to. Thems the breaks.

[noxx98]

Here's the scouting report on MB over the last year compared to the rest of MLS. https://fbref.com/en/players/fd5e3a73/scout/365_mls/Michael-Bradley-Scouting-Report
He has very strong passing numbers - and they arent just side to side passes, he's very good at progressive passes and passes into the final third.
His defensive numbers leave a bit to be desired - although he is good at successful recoveries, his number of recovery attempts is quite low.

The players he's compared to are also quite good as well. Although, nearly all of them are paid less than Bradley. It's also not Bradley's fault that he's getting paid what he is.

[leedsandTFC]

Here's the scouting report on MB over the last year compared to the rest of MLS. https://fbref.com/en/players/fd5e3a73/scout/365_mls/Michael-Bradley-Scouting-Report
He has very strong passing numbers - and they arent just side to side passes, he's very good at progressive passes and passes into the final third.
His defensive numbers leave a bit to be desired - although he is good at successful recoveries, his number of recovery attempts is quite low.

The players he's compared to are also quite good as well. Although, nearly all of them are paid less than Bradley. It's also not Bradley's fault that he's getting paid what he is.

A midfield with Bradley, Kaye and oso is incredibly balanced and effective, has everything.

If oso leaves they need to add another attacking, creative CM this summer (and another cm regardless).

Nelson is a fairly able deputy for Kaye, but we have no one who can do anything close to what oso can in the squad.