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View Full Version : worst.call.ever -- with Video of Carver



Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:14 AM
check it out.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TgVAkJHt4e0

TgVAkJHt4e0


I'm trying to show less on-field play, because that stuff is already on TV and you can get it there, but I think this clip deserves to be seen. What an absolutely HORRENDOUS call. Watch just how pissed Carver is at the end of the game, and rightfully so. The refs handed FC Dallas 3 points, gave two of our guys red cards, and generally just ruined an otherwise good day. For shame....

arbogast
08-07-2008, 08:20 AM
your clip still doesn't show Guevara's foul or Riccetti's instigation (like the match hilights). so how does this prove it was a bad call?

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 08:20 AM
I don't see what's horrendous about the call - Amado hit out at the guy

SilverSamurai
08-07-2008, 08:21 AM
Nice ending but ya... thanks for handing Dallas 3 points...

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:23 AM
your clip still doesn't show Guevara's foul or Riccetti's instigation (like the match hilights). so how does this prove it was a bad call?


I'm not trying to prove it was a bad call. Like I said: "because that stuff is already on TV and you can get it there, but I think this clip deserves to be seen."

anyway, it's more for the carver reaction at the end, which I'm sure wasn't aired.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:24 AM
I don't see what's horrendous about the call - Amado hit out at the guy

It was a two way street. When players are jostling, I don't think it's fair to award a PK when the ball is outside the box.

arbogast
08-07-2008, 08:33 AM
i was just hoping your vid had a clear angle of both incidents that we hadn't seen is all.

Barbarez
08-07-2008, 08:36 AM
It's just parkdale promotions people.

Tintin
08-07-2008, 08:41 AM
It was a two way street. When players are jostling, I don't think it's fair to award a PK when the ball is outside the box.


It's a good call. It has nothing to do with the ball but evrything with the man. Retaliators always get caught and it was a stupid immature play by Guevarra.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:42 AM
but clearly with the amount of discussion with the linesman, not all the officials saw it the same way.

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 08:45 AM
but clearly with the amount of discussion with the linesman, not all the officials saw it the same way.

at the end of the day - the guy with the whistle makes the final call

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 08:45 AM
was the worst call taking out the RPB drum to gate 3 and singing after losing like that?

Tintin
08-07-2008, 08:47 AM
but clearly with the amount of discussion with the linesman, not all the officials saw it the same way.

Agreed but Guevara should no better. As a kid you are always told to wlak away and play until the whistle...

Canadian Blue
08-07-2008, 08:48 AM
was the worst call taking out the RPB drum to gate 3 and singing after losing like that?

That happened?

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 08:49 AM
That happened?

yes it did.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:50 AM
was the worst call taking out the RPB drum to gate 3 and singing after losing like that?


are you whining about something again?

the NEE and RPB were out there chanting 'Give us the Referee', as well as giving Adrian Serioux a hard time when he was getting on the bus. He flipped off some fans during the game, and that deserves a good calling out.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:51 AM
yes it did.

yeah. Chanting 'Fuck The Referee' is clearly what the team is paying us to do.

:rolleyes5:

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 08:53 AM
are you whining about something again?

the NEE and RPB were out there chanting 'Give us the Referee', as well as giving Adrian Serioux a hard time when he was getting on the bus. He flipped off some fans during the game, and that deserves a good calling out.

hahaha PArky Parky Parky!!

So the NEE came over to gate 3 to chant only that one eh???

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 08:54 AM
yeah. Chanting 'Fuck The Referee' is clearly what the team is paying us to do.

:rolleyes5:

Dude I heard other chants.... were you even therE??

ExiledRed
08-07-2008, 08:56 AM
at the end of the day - the guy with the whistle makes the final call

At the end of the day the guy with the whistle was a scabby cunt.

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 08:56 AM
hahaha PArky Parky Parky!!

So the NEE came over to gate 3 to chant only that one eh???


Leave the lady alone D.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 08:57 AM
Dude I heard other chants.... were you even therE??

how would my camera be there without me? huh?

and FYI, there were people from all over there. There was a least a hundred people outside the gate.

mike_bouma
08-07-2008, 08:58 AM
It was a two way street. When players are jostling, I don't think it's fair to award a PK when the ball is outside the box.
The foul happened in the box did it not? What choice did the ref have but to award a PK?

ExiledRed
08-07-2008, 08:58 AM
Dude I heard other chants.... were you even therE??

WTF is the problem Deniz?

A bunch of fans, NEE, RPB and independents went to the front gate to harass the referee. end of.

Why are you constantly trying to diminish what others do?

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 08:59 AM
how would my camera be there without me? huh?

and FYI, there were people from all over there. There was a least a hundred people outside the gate.


I meant were you there when Flush was leading chants other than the one you mentioned. but who cares...go back to the other "bad call"...

Velvet Elvis
08-07-2008, 08:59 AM
are you whining about something again?

the NEE and RPB were out there chanting 'Give us the Referee', as well as giving Adrian Serioux a hard time when he was getting on the bus. He flipped off some fans during the game, and that deserves a good calling out.

That happened after the drum was moved over to Gate 4 ... the drum was out in front of Gate 3 for while right after the match.

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:00 AM
WTF is the problem Deniz?

A bunch of fans, NEE, RPB and independents went to the front gate to harass the referee. end of.

Why are you constantly trying to diminish what others do?

I am talking about singing at GAte 3 right after the game Ian... read my posts.. I didnt say shit about harassing the refs at gate 4.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:03 AM
I am talking about singing at GAte 3 right after the game Ian... read my posts.. I didnt say shit about harassing the refs at gate 4.

The drum in in my video, is outside gate 4.

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:03 AM
was the worst call taking out the RPB drum to gate 3 and singing after losing like that?


READ IT

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:04 AM
READ IT

so you're just using this thread to take shots at the RPB's with the drum, even when that's not the topic?

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:05 AM
so you're just using this thread to take shots at the RPB's with the drum, even when that's not the topic?

we're talking about worst calls on that day..

boban
08-07-2008, 09:06 AM
OK everyone back in their corners.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:07 AM
we're talking about worst calls on that day..

yeah. Calls are what the ref makes.

If you think other supporters aren't doing it right then why not tell them then? I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you they don't care.

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:08 AM
yeah. Calls are what the ref makes.

If you think other supporters aren't doing it right then why not tell them then? I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you they don't care.

obviously you do.. is Roogsy off today?

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:09 AM
yeah. Calls are what the ref makes.

If you think other supporters aren't doing it right then why not tell them then? I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you they don't care.


Calls are also what you make using a phone. ;)

H Bomb
08-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Don't worry Parky. One day you'll make a thread that isn't hijacked from the get go. Not today, probably not this week, but one day.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Don't worry Parky. One day you'll make a thread that isn't hijacked from the get go. Not today, probably not this week, but one day.


I've got another one coming really soon. The video is uploading now.


I consider this on the 'bait thread'

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:12 AM
obviously you do.. is Roogsy off today?

No...I am here...watching. Letting someone experience "what you do" to threads. Which is to hijack them and completely derail them into a whining bitchfest about one thing or another.

Continue... :lurk5:

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:12 AM
He already has a thread that hasn't been hijacked. ;)

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Don't worry Parky. One day you'll make a thread that isn't hijacked from the get go. Not today, probably not this week, but one day.

Will this be the same day he's not wearing his goofy mini army hat?

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Also.. you might wanna pay attention to the previous 80 minutes of the game where we didn't not score a goal. Blaming the ref is the easiest call for newbies :)

alexintoronto
08-07-2008, 09:13 AM
Calls are also what you make using a phone. ;)
It's also...
To lure (prey) by imitating the characteristic cry of an animal: call ducks.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:13 AM
Also.. you might wanna pay attention to the previous 80 minutes of the game where we didn't not score a goal. Blaming the ref is the easiest call for newbies :)


DING DING DING

We have a winner!

H Bomb
08-07-2008, 09:14 AM
I've got another one coming really soon. The video is uploading now.


I consider this on the 'bait thread'

Man I hope it's a video of you right after the loss smiling and drinking a mint julep.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:14 AM
Also.. you might wanna pay attention to the previous 80 minutes of the game where we didn't not score a goal. Blaming the ref is the easiest call for newbies :)

No way man, can't blame the players and coach when the ref obviously kept the ball out of their net and put it in ours.


It's also...
To lure (prey) by imitating the characteristic cry of an animal: call ducks.

Good call. ;)

Barbarez
08-07-2008, 09:16 AM
I hate TFC fans with a passion

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:17 AM
I'm sure they hate you to Barbarez ;)

H Bomb
08-07-2008, 09:19 AM
here we go again. It's kinda oddly beautiful how you guys do it. You come into threads and argue about things are aren't being talked about, as if most of the people disagreed with you, and then think people are disagreeing with you when you're asked to keep on topic or start another thread.

Example
thread: Hey these sandwichs are great
Response: yeah but what about pizza
Thread: right but we're talking about sandwichs
Response: Fuck sandwichs, if you knew anything about football you'd agree with pizza.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:19 AM
Will this be the same day he's not wearing his goofy mini army hat?


says the guy with a hood, a scarf over his face, a hat and a bandana. :cool:

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:20 AM
Example
thread: Hey these sandwichs are great
Response: yeah but what about pizza
Thread: right but we're talking about sandwichs
Response: Fuck sandwichs, if you knew anything about football you'd agree with pizza.


mmm.... pizza

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:21 AM
here we go again. It's kinda oddly beautiful how you guys do it. You come into threads and argue about things are aren't being talked about, as if most of the people disagreed with you, and then think people are disagreeing with you when you're asked to keep on topic or start another thread.

Example
thread: Hey these sandwichs are great
Response: yeah but what about pizza
Thread: right but we're talking about sandwichs
Response: Fuck sandwichs, if you knew anything about football you'd agree with pizza.

Says the guy who always waits to jump in until the arguing has already started. ;)

btw, I kept it quite on topic, so piss off. :cool:

giambac
08-07-2008, 09:23 AM
check it out.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TgVAkJHt4e0

TgVAkJHt4e0


I'm trying to show less on-field play, because that stuff is already on TV and you can get it there, but I think this clip deserves to be seen. What an absolutely HORRENDOUS call. Watch just how pissed Carver is at the end of the game, and rightfully so. The refs handed FC Dallas 3 points, gave two of our guys red cards, and generally just ruined an otherwise good day. For shame....

How can you say it was a bad call?

Last I knew a punch/elbow to the face is a red card. It was the right call.

How did the refs hand 3 points to Dallas?

Last I knew you can't win a game if you can't score a goal.

The last time TFC scored a goal at home in aleague match was June 14th (2 months ago). Is that the refs fault also?

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:25 AM
How can you say it was a bad call?

Last I knew a punch/elbow to the face is a red card. It was the right call.

How did the refs hand 3 points to Dallas?

Last I knew you can't win a game if you can't score a goal.

The last time TFC scored a goal at home in aleague match was June 14th (2 months ago). Is that the refs fault also?

Dude, I actually agree with you 100%! :lol:

blackandwhite
08-07-2008, 09:25 AM
you wanna talk about the bad red cards.. watch for the red card the Netherlands player got at the end of the game this morning.

MG42
08-07-2008, 09:26 AM
...The last time TFC scored a goal at home in aleague match was June 14th (2 months ago). Is that the refs fault also?


No, it's Carvers fault for sure! :)

H Bomb
08-07-2008, 09:26 AM
^^ Again you don't quite get what I'm saying Shaughno. Why the arguing? I don't want to come here and argue, and don't consider what I'm doing arguing. Trying to show you guys why people always tell you guys (many of you, 4 of which have shown up here so far) to back off all the time. It's becuase you start arguements with people who have no interest in arguing your points becuase you're pulled them out of thin air, even if they are true. You guys always use the word passion to excuse yourselves but they aren't one in the same. Who here disagrees with Deniz thinking that we should have scored ourselves or that boisterous singing outside gate 3 are a good thing? I bet the vast majority completely agrees, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? it's the necesity for arguement that I don't understand.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:26 AM
How did the refs hand 3 points to Dallas?

Last I knew you can't win a game if you can't score a goal.

Very true. Totally agree.

Don't think that was Parky's intent in putting up the vid. More to show the reactions after the play. Parky didn't record the actual scuffle. But if you check out the CBC broadcast, I am telling you, you can clearly see a white shirt flail his arms out at a red player at midfield as the camera pans away. I am totally believing Guevara's story and totally blaming the refs for turning the game which was soundly in our favour...not on the scoreboard yet but the Reds were pressuring and who knows, may have actually scored. We will never know. And THAT is the Ref's fault.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Very true. Totally agree.

Don't think that was Parky's intent in putting up the vid. More to show the reactions after the play. Parky didn't record the actual scuffle. But if you check out the CBC broadcast, I am telling you, you can clearly see a white shirt flail his arms out at a red player at midfield as the camera pans away. I am totally believing Guevara's story and totally blaming the refs for turning the game which was soundly in our favour...not on the scoreboard yet but the Reds were pressuring and who knows, may have actually scored. We will never know. And THAT is the Ref's fault.

Regardless what happened, Guevara retaliated and was punished. He should know better, end of story.

olegunnar
08-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Why are some people complaining that some people took the post off topic?

I think it's on topic.

You have some people that are concerned about:
1) people benefiting from the atmosphere the supporters create (BMO tv ads, MLSE, people wanting to increase their ranking on youtube) and the whole carnival atmosphere rather than football atmosphere
2) the lack of supporter culture within a supporter group ie singing celebratory songs after shit performance, as if it's the routine thing to do.
3) support for the club in the future if people new to supporting a club are brought up with distorted ideas of what it entails. ie fratboy parties and tailgates

Then you get a video posted like this, and probably mislabeled on purpose to get people to watch it and it hits on all 3 of the concerns. I think it's related.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:29 AM
^^ Again you don't quite get what I'm saying Shaughno. Why the arguing? I don't want to come here and argue, and don't consider what I'm doing arguing. Trying to show you guys why people always tell you guys (many of you, 4 of which have shown up here so far) to back off all the time. It's becuase you start arguements with people who have no interest in arguing your points becuase you're pulled them out of thin air, even if they are true. You guys always use the word passion to excuse yourselves but they aren't one in the same. Who here disagrees with Deniz thinking that we should have scored ourselves or that boisterous singing outside gate 3 are a good thing? I bet the vast majority completely agrees, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? it's the necesity for arguement that I don't understand.

Where has passion been brought up?
What has been pulled out of thin air?

I don't get where you're coming from. Pulling shit out of thin air goes both ways my friend.

Like I said, I don't think we took it off topic at all.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I like Pizza!

I like pinelapple on pizza. Some people don't like pineapple on pizza- "no fruit on pizza" they say.

Discuss

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 09:30 AM
Pineapple on a pizza = no fly zone

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 09:31 AM
but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Pffft.

everyone knows the Global tea prices are basedon the Chineese Economy. You must have went to Princton not Yale.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:31 AM
1) people benefiting from the atmosphere the supporters create (BMO tv ads, MLSE, people wanting to increase their ranking on youtube) and the whole carnival atmosphere rather than football atmosphere

truth be told, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the youtube rankings.
I'm making videos because it does the same thing as the web forums:
give us something to talk about on games when there's no game to watch.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:31 AM
Pineapple on a pizza = no fly zone

We can not be friends anymore...

Velvet Elvis
08-07-2008, 09:32 AM
Pffft.

everyone knows the Global tea prices are basedon the Chineese Economy. You must have went to Princton not Yale.


I go to a little shop by my place called "Distinctly Tea" ... wait ... what are we talking about :confused:

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:32 AM
I like Pizza!

I like pinelapple on pizza. Some people don't like pineapple on pizza- "no fruit on pizza" they say.

Discuss

I think that a little sweet with the savory goes a long way. It's like pineapple fried rice at a Chinese restaurant. Now if you want to get crazy.... pineapple, mango, brie cheese and ham. Now that's Hawaii!

alexintoronto
08-07-2008, 09:34 AM
That's ridiculous!!!

:taz:

If you aren't going to have fruit on pizza - then you can't have tomatoes OR tomato sauce! mmmmm sun dried tomatoes

Velvet Elvis
08-07-2008, 09:34 AM
I think that a little sweet with the savory goes a long way. It's like pineapple fried rice at a Chinese restaurant. Now if you want to get crazy.... pineapple, mango, brie cheese and ham. Now that's Hawaii!


... on a pizza?

Jay1974
08-07-2008, 09:34 AM
I like pineapple on pizza but I usually pick it off and eat it separate. Does that still count?

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:35 AM
... on a pizza?

yeah. prawn pizza

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 09:35 AM
I hate TFC fans with a passion

Not as much as I hate Dinamo Zagreb fans.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:38 AM
yeah. prawn pizza


Prawn Pizza..fuckin' Prawnies!!!

Perhaps it's because I'm a simple girl, but I'd rather have double cheese and pepperoni.

Oh wait, I've taken this thread off topic. Sorry guys- back to discussion Parkdales video and the red card...

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:38 AM
Regardless what happened, Guevara retaliated and was punished. He should know better, end of story.

I agree. And he will pay. He cost us the game (I don't think anyone thinks the game being lost is completely the ref's fault, Guevara does have blame for being stupid) and will be suspended and lose salary, maybe a fine.

But it doesn't change the fact that the ref did a bad job here as well.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:38 AM
Not as much as I hate Dinamo Zagreb fans.

Now THAT is quality.:cool:

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:39 AM
I agree.

*blink*

Am I reading this right? ;)

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Perhaps it's because I'm a simple girl, but I'd rather have double cheese and pepperoni.


And I figured you'd be a double Italian sausage with extra cheese kind of gal.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:40 AM
I agree. And he will pay. He cost us the game (I don't think anyone thinks the game being lost is completely the ref's fault, Guevara does have blame for being stupid) and will be suspended and lose salary, maybe a fine.

But it doesn't change the fact that the ref did a bad job here as well.

I originally thought so, after reviewing... where exactly did he do a bad job?

Was it giving Guevara a card for stupidly retalliating like Zidane did in the WC?

Was it giving Velez his second yellow for running up to the ref and yelling, even though it wasn't a foul on Hemming at all?

I fail to see where the ref came into play in making these 'bad calls'.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Supreme Pizza from Pizza Hut...

Beat them all.../end of.

Bluenose13
08-07-2008, 09:40 AM
I like Pizza!

I like pinelapple on pizza. Some people don't like pineapple on pizza- "no fruit on pizza" they say.

DiscussHmm......Pineapple on pizza is delish......although don't ever order double cheese/double pineapple.......Disgusting :(

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:41 AM
*blink*

Am I reading this right? ;)

Because it's fact and not opinion. ;)


ps. FUCK PINEAPPLE ON PIZZA!!!!

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:41 AM
*blink*

Am I reading this right? ;)

LMAO!

No...your eyes have been opened to what has always been there hun...

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:43 AM
I originally thought so, after reviewing... where exactly did he do a bad job?

Was it giving Guevara a card for stupidly retalliating like Zidane did in the WC?

Was it giving Velez his second yellow for running up to the ref and yelling, even though it wasn't a foul on Hemming at all?

I fail to see where the ref came into play in making these 'bad calls'.

1) Ricchetti deserved a red as well.
2) The play began BEFORE the box...therefore no PK should've been a FK outside the box.
3) The first yellow to Velez was absolute BS, therefore the 2nd should not have resulted in a red. Velez WAS stupid for arguing after being on a yellow, but can we blame his frustration and passion?

These are substantial bad calls that in essence cost the game. They are not irrelevant nor forgivable. When you issue a red card, you are determining the outcome of the game, therefore you'd better be sure you are getting it right. He didn't seem interested in doing that, just punishing Guevara's stupidity.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:43 AM
And I figured you'd be a double Italian sausage with extra cheese kind of gal.

Not so big on Italian Sausage...

Now Scottish Sausage....er, wait we're tlaking about pizza right?

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:44 AM
ps. FUCK PINEAPPLE ON PIZZA!!!!

See? Another thing we agree on.

You and I...we're not that different you and me.

I like to call us "Ebony and Ivory"

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:45 AM
ps. FUCK PINEAPPLE ON PIZZA!!!!

Fuck you Buddy!

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:46 AM
LMAO!

No...your eyes have been opened to what has always been there hun...

My eyes were always open Roogsy ;)

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 09:46 AM
Pizza is peasant food. Ask any self respecting Italian they'll tell you.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:46 AM
Pizza is peasant food. Ask any self respecting Italian they'll tell you.

I'm quite happy being one of the common folk :D

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 09:47 AM
I love peasant food!

The best food in the world began as peasant food...any chef will tell you.

H Bomb
08-07-2008, 09:47 AM
Pizza is peasant food. Ask any self respecting Italian they'll tell you.

And most of us in the south end are peasants!!!

nobodybeatsthewiz
08-07-2008, 09:48 AM
^ wtf, its not the debutant and socialite section?!

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 09:48 AM
Pizza is peasant food. Ask any self respecting Italian they'll tell you.

That's why I buy my pizza from a bunch of Turks. They make a Donner pizza that's just killer.

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:50 AM
MMMMMMM Donner......

nobodybeatsthewiz
08-07-2008, 09:51 AM
That's why I buy my pizza from a bunch of Turks. They make a Donner pizza that's just killer.

armenian pizza is pretty damn good too

Barbarez
08-07-2008, 09:51 AM
MMMMMMM Donner......

Whats the biggest doner you've seen in your life? ;)

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 09:52 AM
1) Ricchetti deserved a red as well.
2) The play began BEFORE the box...therefore no PK should've been a FK outside the box.
3) The first yellow to Velez was absolute BS, therefore the 2nd should not have resulted in a red. Velez WAS stupid for arguing after being on a yellow, but can we blame his frustration and passion?

These are substantial bad calls that in essence cost the game. They are not irrelevant nor forgivable. When you issue a red card, you are determining the outcome of the game, therefore you'd better be sure you are getting it right. He didn't seem interested in doing that, just punishing Guevara's stupidity.

Ricchetti may have deserved it, I would have given a yellow personally though.

Guevara's foul was inside the box, therefore penalty. End of story.

Referee's give out cards, sometimes they are more warranted than others. Making a stupid decision and getting sent off is far from the ref's fault.

BTW, it's ok for us to dismiss players actions if it's in the name of 'passion', but not supporters?

Mrs. Workie
08-07-2008, 09:53 AM
Whats the biggest doner you've seen in your life? ;)


I haven't seen very many to be honest- care to help change that?? ;)

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:03 AM
BTW, it's ok for us to dismiss players actions if it's in the name of 'passion', but not supporters?

Who is dismissing the player's actions? They are getting their just punishment. They cost the game so they have to face their fellow players AND they get financial punishment in the form of a suspension. How do the ref's answer for their gaffs?

...
...
...

And if you would have given him a yellow...then the play is not a PK. End of. Sure...I will accept a yellow for Ricchetti and a red for Guevara, but then by default, the incident began outside the box and there were two fouls...therefore it is not a PK. Maybe one of the refs on this board might want to verify that because that is always the way I understood it.

And we can't dismiss referee's "give out cards, sometimes they are more warranted than others" so easily either. Since the league doesn't really hold them accountable...we should.

Nerepis
08-07-2008, 10:06 AM
1) Ricchetti deserved a red as well.
2) The play began BEFORE the box...therefore no PK should've been a FK outside the box.
3) The first yellow to Velez was absolute BS, therefore the 2nd should not have resulted in a red. Velez WAS stupid for arguing after being on a yellow, but can we blame his frustration and passion?

These are substantial bad calls that in essence cost the game. They are not irrelevant nor forgivable. When you issue a red card, you are determining the outcome of the game, therefore you'd better be sure you are getting it right. He didn't seem interested in doing that, just punishing Guevara's stupidity.

The problem as I see it is that the ref called the PK but didn't see the play, or he wouldn't have consulted the linesman. In talking to the linesman (for a long time) the linesman clearly points outside the box, my guess is he's indicating where the trouble started. Outside the box means no PK, 2 Reds and a dropped ball. Because the ref already called the PK, he paints himself into a corner he can't get out of without losing face. After sticking to his guns he should know he will take some verbal abuse, all refs do, so take it like a man and let the game play out. So no 2nd yellow for Velez. And by all accounts Velez didn't deserve the first yellow in the first place.

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:12 AM
The problem as I see it is that the ref called the PK but didn't see the play, or he wouldn't have consulted the linesman. In talking to the linesman (for a long time) the linesman clearly points outside the box, my guess is he's indicating where the trouble started. Outside the box means no PK, 2 Reds and a dropped ball. Because the ref already called the PK, he paints himself into a corner he can't get out of without losing face. After sticking to his guns he should know he will take some verbal abuse, all refs do, so take it like a man and let the game play out. So no 2nd yellow for Velez. And by all accounts Velez didn't deserve the first yellow in the first place.


well said.

BuSaPuNk
08-07-2008, 10:17 AM
I second that very well said. That is why I hate when refs in any sport jump to a decision and then they know they are wrong. They don't want to make themselves look silly.....so they almost have to stick to that descision.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:22 AM
The problem as I see it is that the ref called the PK but didn't see the play, or he wouldn't have consulted the linesman. In talking to the linesman (for a long time) the linesman clearly points outside the box, my guess is he's indicating where the trouble started. Outside the box means no PK, 2 Reds and a dropped ball. Because the ref already called the PK, he paints himself into a corner he can't get out of without losing face. After sticking to his guns he should know he will take some verbal abuse, all refs do, so take it like a man and let the game play out. So no 2nd yellow for Velez. And by all accounts Velez didn't deserve the first yellow in the first place.

I agree for the most part. Have you ever refereed before?

When you make a call, you base it on what YOU saw happen. He made his decision, made the call and gave the card. The linesman gave the ref his opinion, which the referee is entitled to use if he sees fit. They obviously had conflicting opinions but maybe the linesman couldn't give enough of an argument to change the ref's opinion, therefore the call stands.

You rarely see a ref go back on his calls unless he is 100% sure he made teh wrong call.

Also, for Velez the first card may have been harsh. It still doesn't give him any excuse to get a second yellow for dissent. Nobody is perfect, including referees and players.

In your opinion, what affected the outcome of the game more? The players actions that led to the referee making his decisions or the actual calls themselves?

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:24 AM
You rarely see a ref go back on his calls unless he is 100% sure he made teh wrong call.

of if he's 100% honest about not really seeing the offending incident as it happened.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:26 AM
of if he's 100% honest about not really seeing the offending incident as it happened.

I'm assuming he saw Guevara throw the punch. That's a red card regardless. He made his decision based on what he saw happen and he was 100% right in that call. He obviously didn't see it happen outside the box, which is why he missed the first elbow on Guevara.

Again, I have never seen a ref go back on a call unless he is 100% sure he made the wrong call.

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 10:26 AM
We can not be friends anymore...

Were we ever? :(

Nerepis
08-07-2008, 10:27 AM
I second that very well said. That is why I hate when refs in any sport jump to a decision and then they know they are wrong. They don't want to make themselves look silly.....so they almost have to stick to that descision.

A person who fucks up but is man enough to say he fucked up gets a lot of props in my books, it rare to see a ref do this but when they do the football Gods look down upon them and smile.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:29 AM
A person who fucks up but is man enough to say he fucked up gets a lot of props in my books, it rare to see a ref do this but when they do the football Gods look down upon them and smile.

As I said, referee's will not go back on their call unless they are 100% sure of it. As a referee myself, I know this from experience. People respect you more for sticking to your call, then if you flip flop around on calls because people are bitching about the call you made.

invictusTFC
08-07-2008, 10:30 AM
Guevara and Velez handed Dallas 3 points, not the ref. If roles were reversed we'd be applauding that call. Furthermore, how many real scoring chances did we create the entire game? IMO all we can take from that game is that we moved the ball around a little better compared to the previous few games, but yet again we were a dismal disappointment in the final third of the field.
Its frightening how this team cannot hold it together for an entire 90 minutes. If its not lapses in concentration its discipline problems like we saw on that video. It seems like everybody from the management all the way down to the individual players are dropping the ball. Mo has to get off his ass and sign a capable striker, JC has to stop with the theatrics and excuses. This team was winning consistently in the early part of the season without a DP caliber striker, they can do it again if they get their act together. Finally, the players have to get their heads out of their asses and play some f%#king football. They need to get their confidence back and start playing as a unit. Where's the focus? Where's the heart?

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:32 AM
Guevara and Velez handed Dallas 3 points, not the ref. If roles were reversed we'd be applauding that call. Furthermore, how many real scoring chances did we create the entire game? IMO all we can take from that game is that we moved the ball around a little better compared to the previous few games, but yet again we were a dismal disappointment in the final third of the field.
Its frightening how this team cannot hold it together for an entire 90 minutes. If its not lapses in concentration its discipline problems like we saw on that video. It seems like everybody from the management all the way down to the individual players are dropping the ball. Mo has to get off his ass and sign a capable striker, JC has to stop with the theatrics and excuses. This team was winning consistently in the early part of the season without a DP caliber striker, they can do it again if they get their act together. Finally, the players have to get their heads out of their asses and play some f%#king football. They need to get their confidence back and start playing as a unit. Where's the focus? Where's the heart?

Thank fucking god somebody gets it.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:33 AM
As I said, referee's will not go back on their call unless they are 100% sure of it. As a referee myself, I know this from experience. People respect you more for sticking to your call, then if you flip flop around on calls because people are bitching about the call you made.

I have found people respect you more if after consulting with the linesman you are able to reverse your own call.

I agree that allowing player's bitching to reverse the call is lame and nobody would respect a ref for that...but that is not what we are saying here. The ref was wrong, and nobody respects a ref that blows a call regardless if he sticks to his guns.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:34 AM
If roles were reversed we'd be applauding that call.

I doubt it...we'd probably be saying we got away with one.

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 10:34 AM
Also, for Velez the first card may have been harsh.

Sitting in 127 - Velez's first yellow was far from harsh

Nerepis
08-07-2008, 10:35 AM
I agree for the most part. Have you ever refereed before?

When you make a call, you base it on what YOU saw happen. He made his decision, made the call and gave the card. The linesman gave the ref his opinion, which the referee is entitled to use if he sees fit. They obviously had conflicting opinions but maybe the linesman couldn't give enough of an argument to change the ref's opinion, therefore the call stands.

You rarely see a ref go back on his calls unless he is 100% sure he made teh wrong call.

Also, for Velez the first card may have been harsh. It still doesn't give him any excuse to get a second yellow for dissent. Nobody is perfect, including referees and players.

In your opinion, what affected the outcome of the game more? The players actions that led to the referee making his decisions or the actual calls themselves?

LOL, I've never reffed, but I started playing football when the kit included short shorts, and in truth I probably set a record for most cards for decent.

No one seemed to want to win that game, so with out the bad calls its a tie nil-nil, the ref can't be the MOTM but he affected the outcome most.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:35 AM
Sitting in 127 - Velez's first yellow was far from harsh

Replays agree with you. It wasn't even close to being a foul on a Toronto player, let alone a yellow. Harsh is not the word for it. Wrong is.

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 10:41 AM
Replays agree with you. It wasn't even close to being a foul on a Toronto player, let alone a yellow. Harsh is not the word for it. Wrong is.

Velez didn't foul a Toronto player :confused:

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
"by"

sorry

invictusTFC
08-07-2008, 10:44 AM
Sitting in 127 - Velez's first yellow was far from harsh

So it was harsh! If you're already sitting on a yellow, you don't put yourself in a position to get a red card especially by arguing a call.

KdotOdot
08-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Shaghy, you;re right. But that dosn't mean I'll stop calling the ref a dirty cunt?!

Parkdale
08-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Ben Kinght's article the day after the game seems to say that there's a problem with officiating as well.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4269

clearly there are many opinions on this one.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:51 AM
So it was harsh! If you're already sitting on a yellow, you don't put yourself in a position to get a red card especially by arguing a call.

What professional player doesn't argue calls? This wasn't Mascherano running across from 30 yards away to argue a call. That ref pulled that card out mighty quick. Seemed like he was itching to.

I understand wanting to hold our player accountable. What I don't understand is excusing a ref who by now we realize was on a power trip and a complete douchebag.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:52 AM
Shaghy, you;re right. But that dosn't mean I'll stop calling the ref a dirty cunt?!

Dude, I'm a ref.. I call all other ref's cunts. ;)


Ben Kinght's article the day after the game seems to say that there's a problem with officiating as well.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4269

clearly there are many opinions on this one.

Sure, everyone is entitled to their own. Fact of the matter is, the ref was doing his job and called it how he saw it.

I don't disagree that it could have been handled differently, but I don't place the blame on the ref either. Both players could and should have prevented themselves from getting those cards, they didn't.

The ref'ing in this league for the majority is a joke, but that's a whole other story.

invictusTFC
08-07-2008, 10:56 AM
Ben Kinght's article the day after the game seems to say that there's a problem with officiating as well.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4269

clearly there are many opinions on this one.

Nobody is arguing that there isn't a problem with the officiating in this league. It is quite brutal. But some in this forum act like its an organized conspiracy against TFC. Sure we've had bad calls handed our way, but this is a league wide epidemic. I just don't like how our players put themselves in positions to cost this team some valuable points. Guevara retaliated and got caught. Not only were we punished for it in that game, we're gonna be punished for it in the next game as well because we will be missing our more creative playmaker. What Velez did was just plain thoughtless. He was already sitting on a yellow, why be so stupid.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:57 AM
What professional player doesn't argue calls? This wasn't Mascherano running across from 30 yards away to argue a call. That ref pulled that card out mighty quick. Seemed like he was itching to.

I understand wanting to hold our player accountable. What I don't understand is excusing a ref who by now we realize was on a power trip and a complete douchebag.

Wholly jumping to conclusions batman!!!

First, research last years EPL card handouts. There was at least 4 cards from the top of my head that were all given for dissent in similar situations.

Second, how was the ref being a complete douchebag on a powertrip... by doing his job? He made the call based on what he saw, which was Guevara punching an opposing player and Velez yelling about a foul that wasn't a foul.

GabrielHurl
08-07-2008, 10:57 AM
So it was harsh! If you're already sitting on a yellow, you don't put yourself in a position to get a red card especially by arguing a call.

You don't get what I'm saying - I'm saying the first yellow wasn't harsh

Velez clearly clattered into their keeper at the corner kick - he'd no intention of winning the ball

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Nobody is arguing that there isn't a problem with the officiating in this league. It is quite brutal. But some in this forum act like its an organized conspiracy against TFC. Sure we've had bad calls handed our way, but this is a league wide epidemic. I just don't like how our players put themselves in positions to cost this team some valuable points. Guevara retaliated and got caught. Not only were we punished for it in that game, we're gonna be punished for it in the next game as well because we will be missing our more creative playmaker. What Velez did was just plain thoughtless. He was already sitting on a yellow, why be so stupid.

Exactly, there is no blame to lay on the ref. Our players could have easily avoided both situations, but didn't. They should be the ones you guys are calling douchebags. The ref wouldn't have made the call if they hadn't have put themselves in those situations.

Stryker
08-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Anyone else notice that the only games we've gotton fair (and in one game slightly favored) reffing was during the Nutrilite championship?
Sad.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 10:59 AM
You don't get what I'm saying - I'm saying the first yellow wasn't harsh

Velez clearly clattered into their keeper at the corner kick - he'd no intention of winning the ball

I still haven't seen that replay but if so, then WTF Velez?

Fort York Redcoat
08-07-2008, 11:02 AM
Velez crumpled as soon as he felt the keeper on his back. It was a weak challenge for the ball and a weak call. That said, the ref CAN and did call it. But clattered sounds like intent. The card was awarded for the keeper on the floor not the wimpy challenge.

McBrace
08-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Anyone else notice that the only games we've gotton fair (and in one game slightly favored) reffing was during the Nutrilite championship?
Sad.

Including the penalty awarded to the White Caps? I thought it was harsh to be honest.

McBrace
08-07-2008, 11:09 AM
Anyone else notice that the only games we've gotton fair (and in one game slightly favored) reffing was during the Nutrilite championship?
Sad.

Including the Penalty awarded to the White caps? I thought it was harsh!

v00d00daddy
08-07-2008, 11:18 AM
1. The officiating was shit.

2. TFC lost the game, not the officials.

3. I lost a little bit of respect for John Carver having seen the way he pulled Brennan away from the officials. And please don't tell me Carver was saving him from doing something stupid. Brennan looked calm and Carver looked like an angry 8 year old.

Stryker
08-07-2008, 11:22 AM
I lost a little bit of respect for John Carver having seen the way he pulled Brennan away from the officials. And please don't tell me Carver was saving him from doing something stupid. Brennan looked calm and Carver looked like an angry 8 year old.
Everyone's different. I for one love to watch Carver get fired up; even if it is counter productive at times.

I guess it stems from watching years of a comatose Pat Quinn behind the Leafs bench.

giambac
08-07-2008, 11:39 AM
Guevara and Velez handed Dallas 3 points, not the ref. If roles were reversed we'd be applauding that call. Furthermore, how many real scoring chances did we create the entire game? IMO all we can take from that game is that we moved the ball around a little better compared to the previous few games, but yet again we were a dismal disappointment in the final third of the field.
Its frightening how this team cannot hold it together for an entire 90 minutes. If its not lapses in concentration its discipline problems like we saw on that video. It seems like everybody from the management all the way down to the individual players are dropping the ball. Mo has to get off his ass and sign a capable striker, JC has to stop with the theatrics and excuses. This team was winning consistently in the early part of the season without a DP caliber striker, they can do it again if they get their act together. Finally, the players have to get their heads out of their asses and play some f%#king football. They need to get their confidence back and start playing as a unit. Where's the focus? Where's the heart?

Well said,

No one wants to be held accountable. I must say that I can't remember tha last time a Toronto sports supporters group has used so many excuses. Everyone is blaming everyone (refs etc) except the players and their poor play and lack of dedication.

The refs didn't lose the game. Why is everyone complaining about the PK. It was clear that the Dallas player was bleeding from his nose. Was he digging for gold?

I mean the PK that TFC got against SJ was more of a joke. That shouldn't have been a PK but because it was given in our favour no one complained. The difference is that Dallas scored on their PK and Guevera didn't score on his.

Therfore an argument can be made that Guevera (not the ref) cost us 3 points vs SJ and at least 1 point (draw) vs Dallas because of his immaturity.

invictusTFC
08-07-2008, 11:53 AM
You don't get what I'm saying - I'm saying the first yellow wasn't harsh

Velez clearly clattered into their keeper at the corner kick - he'd no intention of winning the ball

Sorry mate... I read it wrong... Involuntary dyslexia!!!

ExiledRed
08-07-2008, 12:20 PM
The referee was partial, and he was infuriated by the crowd's 'fuck the referee' chant and decided to punish us further, like the rest of the unprofessional goons MLS gives a yellow jersey and a whistle, would. There is no balance with these refs and it's a joke.

It's not just about the calls against us, which were, as usual, controversial. It's about the persistent issue of non-calls, mis-calls, incorrect posession awards when the ball goes out of touch, cards for 'trickery' when we're fouled, while obvious dives are called fouls against us, refusal to award penalties when we blatantly deserve them, and legitimate goals being called offside.

It's ridiculous really, and while our team arent the best in the league, the refs are making them much worse than they actually are.

giambac
08-07-2008, 12:26 PM
The referee was partial, and he was infuriated by the crowd's 'fuck the referee' chant and decided to punish us further, like the rest of the unprofessional goons MLS gives a yellow jersey and a whistle, would. There is no balance with these refs and it's a joke.

It's not just about the calls against us, which were, as usual, controversial. It's about the persistent issue of non-calls, mis-calls, incorrect posession awards when the ball goes out of touch, cards for 'trickery' when we're fouled, while obvious dives are called fouls against us, refusal to award penalties when we blatantly deserve them, and legitimate goals being called offside.

It's ridiculous really, and while our team arent the best in the league, the refs are making them much worse than they actually are.


A conspiracy against TFC
In the long run the calls even out.

Like I said TFC got a questionable pk vs SJ and the difference was that Guevaer didn't score.

Wasn't that a call in our favour?

NateDoGG
08-07-2008, 12:28 PM
i dont see anything.

MFBODD
08-07-2008, 12:42 PM
How many times does a retaliation get called and not the instigation? All the time and in many different sports. I know it's hard to keep your head screwed on straight in a match when someone pisses you off, but if you retaliate you better be prepared to take a red. If you are prepared to take a red you better do it at the "right" time and in the "right" spot.

ExiledRed
08-07-2008, 12:43 PM
A conspiracy against TFC
In the long run the calls even out.


You know that's not true in our case.

Ive watched a lot of soccer in my life, and I tend to find that 90% of any season is called well. 5% are negative gaffs from the referee and 5% are positive gaffs that work in your favour.

This just isnt how its going, the balance is way off.

The players and coaches are exasperated by this referee and others, and I'm behind them to the end, because Im a supporter.

Im getting tired of the MLS apologists on here.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 01:30 PM
You know that's not true in our case.

Ive watched a lot of soccer in my life, and I tend to find that 90% of any season is called well. 5% are negative gaffs from the referee and 5% are positive gaffs that work in your favour.

This just isnt how its going, the balance is way off.

The players and coaches are exasperated by this referee and others, and I'm behind them to the end, because Im a supporter.

Im getting tired of the MLS apologists on here.

I agree the referee quality is SHIT in the MLS, but I don't think we're the only ones feeling the wrath. It may seem like it, but I'm sure we aren't the only ones getting screwed up calls made in our games.

AL-MO
08-07-2008, 01:31 PM
For what its worth, the MLS doesn't appoint the referees for TFC games, the CSA does. . . .

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 01:35 PM
OK...just for the sake of arguments.

How many calls have gone in our favour...especially if they result in a goal?

Can anyone name a few...or even one?

Stryker
08-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Just the penalty Guevara missed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufqFCfkpHwg

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 01:38 PM
That one I do remember...and yes...somewhat of a weak PK in our favour. And then the huge letdown of not capitalizing on it.

Shaughno
08-07-2008, 01:39 PM
OK...just for the sake of arguments.

How many calls have gone in our favour...especially if they result in a goal?

Can anyone name a few...or even one?


I can count two penalties off the top of my head, both missed. You can't say, "especially if they result in a goal" though... since we have problems scoring anyway.

I remember in the Columbus game earlier this year the ref was on our side and kept telling Shitletto to get up off the ground, even when he was legitimately taken out.

ExiledRed
08-07-2008, 01:42 PM
For what its worth, the MLS doesn't appoint the referees for TFC games, the CSA does. . . .

Sunday's ref was a CSA ref?

check again

invictusTFC
08-07-2008, 02:31 PM
OK...just for the sake of arguments.

How many calls have gone in our favour...especially if they result in a goal?

Can anyone name a few...or even one?

For the sake of arguments, how many real quality scoring chances have we been able to create during this winless streak? Sure we've gotten bad calls against us, but to suggest that those calls have been what has cost us games is ridiculous. (not that you are suggesting this, I'm just trying to make a point)

I'll point my finger at shotty defending, lapses of concentration, poor finishing, lack of creativity, dismal efforts, lack of team cohesion and poor luck at times before signaling out the officiating as the major culprit in this team's misfortunes.

ochos
08-07-2008, 05:06 PM
i can't believe i've actually gone through all 5 pages.. i can't stop thinking about pizza now...

oh and pineapple on pizza is da shit



The problem as I see it is that the ref called the PK but didn't see the play, or he wouldn't have consulted the linesman. In talking to the linesman (for a long time) the linesman clearly points outside the box, my guess is he's indicating where the trouble started. Outside the box means no PK, 2 Reds and a dropped ball. Because the ref already called the PK, he paints himself into a corner he can't get out of without losing face. After sticking to his guns he should know he will take some verbal abuse, all refs do, so take it like a man and let the game play out. So no 2nd yellow for Velez. And by all accounts Velez didn't deserve the first yellow in the first place.


nail..head

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 05:09 PM
I can count two penalties off the top of my head, both missed. You can't say, "especially if they result in a goal" though... since we have problems scoring anyway.

I remember in the Columbus game earlier this year the ref was on our side and kept telling Shitletto to get up off the ground, even when he was legitimately taken out.

Ok...the Guevara missed penalty I remember but what penalty in the Columbus game? Are you talking about the first game of the year when Samuel missed the PK? That penalty was legit. That's reaching Jay. We are talking about bad calls in our favour. This one does not qualify.

Roogsy
08-07-2008, 10:55 PM
You don't get what I'm saying - I'm saying the first yellow wasn't harsh

Velez clearly clattered into their keeper at the corner kick - he'd no intention of winning the ball

I can see why you say that from your angle in 127.

However, the CBC broadcast shows that Sala actually just ran into his own player and Velez actually didn't touch the guy at all!

It should not have been a yellow, the replay clearly shows Velez had nothing to do with Sala's crashing to the ground.

Nerepis
08-08-2008, 07:17 AM
^^^^^

Exactly, Not only was Velez's first yellow not a cardable offence it was not even a foul. People can say these men are professionals and should suck it up and play-on. The problem is that the bad calls are not just spotty they are ubiquitous, and with no respite from the MLS let alone an acknowledgement that the problem is serious, what is a poor player to do? What would you do if a part-time, semi-pro supervisor kept fucking up what you were doing at work, and costing you money personally? By not shaking hands, Carver sent a point blank message to the league and it's officials in a public forum very eloquently as to the state of it's officiating. With no suspension or financial repercussions, as far as I know, to him or the team. Well done John it had to be said, as for Velez he did it a little less eloquently. :rolleyes:

ensco
08-08-2008, 07:48 AM
You know that's not true in our case.

Ive watched a lot of soccer in my life, and I tend to find that 90% of any season is called well. 5% are negative gaffs from the referee and 5% are positive gaffs that work in your favour.

This just isnt how its going, the balance is way off.

The players and coaches are exasperated by this referee and others, and I'm behind them to the end, because Im a supporter.

Im getting tired of the MLS apologists on here.

Exiled, a lot of people here respect your view. (Myself included.) So, even though I'm unconvinced, let's say you're right. What would be the right course of action for TFC, and for the supporters?

For the team, I think it's ownership that has to "own" this problem. Peddie should deal with Garber and decide whether to go public or not. The players and Carver can't play that role. But the players do need to recognize that our ability to achieve anything at all is seriously impaired by episodes like the Guevara and Velez incidents, which show us to be badly undisciplined.

For the supporters, I think a thoughtful supporters protest (along the lines of the ASG thing) would be best. It needs to be funny but biting to get the media's serious attention. We also need a Goff strategy - that guy is the only journalist who matters to the league office. We also need to reach out to other supporters groups - this shouldn't be a TFC-only protest, we're not the only ones with problems with the refs.

An aside: I think the media are starting to see the TFC supporters as a bunch of whingeing cranks, in the same category as bicycle fanatics (you know, the guys who buzz around with permascowls, who rage at cars and pedestrians and pretty much everyone else, because they "just don't understand, goddamit".)

Flipityflu
08-08-2008, 07:59 AM
The referee was partial, and he was infuriated by the crowd's 'fuck the referee' chant and decided to punish us further, like the rest of the unprofessional goons MLS gives a yellow jersey and a whistle, would. There is no balance with these refs and it's a joke.


i think this started before the match. i was in the pretty early in 114, and as the officials were warming up in the south end, a couple of comments were shouted at the ref. the ref turned and had a pretty aggresive look on his face, in my opinion.

ensco
08-08-2008, 08:02 AM
i think this started before the match. i was in the pretty early in 114, and as the officials were warming up in the south end, a couple of comments were shouted at the ref. the ref turned and had a pretty aggresive look on his face, in my opinion.

I have an idea. How about the supporters lay off the refs in pregame?

Draracle
08-08-2008, 08:06 AM
I have an idea. How about the supporters lay off the refs in pregame?

I don't understand why someone would jump on the ref before the game starts. If anything we should be yelling words of encouragement. Make the refs love it here, just like the players do. If they proceed to fuck it up then let them have it. But if they do a good job, let them know too.

Flipityflu
08-08-2008, 08:09 AM
thats what i said to them. i was told he deserved it due to his last perfomrance. this can be confirmed since the two people i talked to do post here.

Roogsy
08-08-2008, 08:34 AM
I never start into the ref until he blows at least 2 calls...then all hell is unleashed.

My biggest beef is when we get on the ref FOR MAKING A GOOD CALL, just because it goes against us.

You know what? Sometimes we ARE offside! Sometimes we DO foul. And when that happens, I have no problems with the ref calling the play against us.

But when he blows a call and it either costs us a goal in OUR favour or it winds up as a goal against us? Let's just say that if I didn't have a career to worry about I would rush the field and give him a super wedgie.

Roogsy
08-08-2008, 08:36 AM
An aside: I think the media are starting to see the TFC supporters as a bunch of whingeing cranks, in the same category as bicycle fanatics (you know, the guys who buzz around with permascowls, who rage at cars and pedestrians and pretty much everyone else, because they "just don't understand, goddamit".)

:rofl:

I would have to say to a degree you are correct.

But to be fair, most passionate fans are never happy so I am guessing you would always want more from your team and are always complaining. The thing is, right now, us TFC fans are understandable in our grief.

ACSertL
08-08-2008, 08:43 AM
I think some times it is difficult to figure out whether or not the referee made a good call because the replays are never shown on the screens at BMO. So screaming and chanting is basically a knee jerk reaction to a percieved bad call by the MLS officials who haven't done a whole lot to place our confidence in them.

Good or bad? I really don't know.