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View Full Version : MLS Match Day 18 - Seattle @ TFC - Sat July 2 7:36 Under the Infuence



OgtheDim
06-30-2022, 07:47 AM
I got no defence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtM7zIF-IlU


********

Have at It People

Mr. Inbetween
06-30-2022, 08:07 AM
Always a hunger for redemption.

https://youtu.be/dIxkveUJEKU

Kamp Berg
06-30-2022, 08:11 AM
I’m going to guess that this game will either see a very surprising effort or an absolute flop. Fingers crossed for a mighty effort! At least that way if they lose it will be palatable.

Yuushalinsky
06-30-2022, 08:22 AM
we always got no defense - hopefully our friends Westberg and Salcedo are fine or this one could be rough.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 09:47 AM
If we lose here, fire Bradley...and terminate his son's contract also.

And then from the 9th we start fresh and build for next year.

Yuushalinsky
06-30-2022, 09:52 AM
Overreaction squad is here smh

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 10:07 AM
Overreaction squad is here smh
Just fold the franchise and make everyone happy. Never have to complain about TFC again.

Kamp Berg
06-30-2022, 10:26 AM
Just fold the franchise and make everyone happy. Never have to complain about TFC again.

I was going to suggest they burn the stadium down. Maybe both?

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 10:27 AM
I was going to suggest they burn the stadium down. Maybe both?
Giant pyre where we can burn all existing merch so it's like TFC never happened.

Kamp Berg
06-30-2022, 10:35 AM
Giant pyre where we can burn all existing merch so it's like TFC never happened.

Perfect, like the giant bonfires in Scheveningen!

MikeForbes
06-30-2022, 10:35 AM
Don't burn down the stadium. People will complain about how long it took to burn to the ground and why the fire started in the north end instead of the south end.

noxx98
06-30-2022, 10:42 AM
Long weekend, great weather forecast. Let's hope it's a packed house with vocal fans. Can't wait.

Richard
06-30-2022, 12:41 PM
I was going to suggest they burn the stadium down. Maybe both?

I'm all for this as long as we get a world class 50K outdoor stadium as a replacement!

Asking for the firing of Bob is just trolling, but on the other hand I wouldn't miss Manning,I think his time should have been up after last year's mess, but really for the underwhelming performance the last 3 years combined.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 01:17 PM
I'm all for this as long as we get a world class 50K outdoor stadium as a replacement!

Asking for the firing of Bob is just trolling, but on the other hand I wouldn't miss Manning,I think his time should have been up after last year's mess, but really for the underwhelming performance the last 3 years combined.

I get its early to get rid of Bradley...that's the frustration of last night's loss talking....but HE is the one who didn't start Oso in a must win 6 pointer...and he is the one who decided to go the season without outside backs...and very inexperienced backs as well.

Last night, I just felt for Jimenez...he worked his butt off but had no one up front to help...Ako was literally invisible...kerr did nothing...Shaf nothing...its all on Jimenez and Poz's hands to try and creat something while being surrounded by 6 guys....

Anyways, needless to say this is a must win....and Seattle is no joke.

Any word on Shaff's injury? Looking nasty with the blood and he was dazed and didn't have his balance...hope he is alright....thinkign a concusion or some kind of orbital bone damage....

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 01:17 PM
Long weekend, great weather forecast. Let's hope it's a packed house with vocal fans. Can't wait.

I'll be there and the 9th. Lets win both...need a winning streak to get into the playoff mix.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 02:12 PM
I get its early to get rid of Bradley...that's the frustration of last night's loss talking....but HE is the one who didn't start Oso in a must win 6 pointer...and he is the one who decided to go the season without outside backs...and very inexperienced backs as well.

It's not a must win at all though. Not yet. Go look at some seasons that Seattle have had for evidence.

As for Osorio, he is coming back from injury and we're on a 4 matches in 16 days stretch. Since he ran out 60 on Saturday he was probably capped at 30-40 this match. It's senseless to start a player to pull them based on minutes in the first half so using them in the second is the smart and normal thing to do.

The wingbacks situation has been explained many times by many people and was included in my point form note on the roster thread to explain to people where we're at and why. Long story short; this is a roster rebuild at it's very beginning so you see what the foundation is. No point in signing randoms in the winter window when mostly everyone is questionable and more expensive. Next, kids don't count against the cap so if you can bleed some in then you will enjoy some cap relief from it later and they will gain some experience (this is why Seattle is always in the playoff picture). We've been told from day one that the moves will happen this summer in the window. That opens in a week. The goal was to be in good shape by then. As long as we're within a few wins of the playoffs we should be good but....

If Westberg goes down for an extended period then I think we're done. We could sign 7 more TAMs & DPs and we'd probably still drop points.

Yuushalinsky
06-30-2022, 02:22 PM
We're definitely feeling the ripples of Curtis (and honestly to some extent, Bez re: youth academy) - this rebuild is going to be painful but hopefully relatively short as we develop both chemistry and the foundation of a more sustainable club - one that both spends where it can and develops where it should.

Speaking to the match, it'll probably a replay of Wednesday unless Salcedo/Q can play again - give up a (couple of) poorly positioned goal(s) then the quality of the offense picks up, that will probably determine if we pick up one or three (hopefully not zero).

OgtheDim
06-30-2022, 02:31 PM
Seattle's offence is much better then Columbus.

This game is likely to be ugly.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 02:38 PM
Seattle's offence is much better then Columbus.

This game is likely to be ugly.

The only things that can help us are Salcedo & Westberg. Without them it will be a rough night.

Section 223
06-30-2022, 03:06 PM
It's not a must win at all though. Not yet. Go look at some seasons that Seattle have had for evidence.

As for Osorio, he is coming back from injury and we're on a 4 matches in 16 days stretch. Since he ran out 60 on Saturday he was probably capped at 30-40 this match. It's senseless to start a player to pull them based on minutes in the first half so using them in the second is the smart and normal thing to do.

The wingbacks situation has been explained many times by many people and was included in my point form note on the roster thread to explain to people where we're at and why. Long story short; this is a roster rebuild at it's very beginning so you see what the foundation is. No point in signing randoms in the winter window when mostly everyone is questionable and more expensive. Next, kids don't count against the cap so if you can bleed some in then you will enjoy some cap relief from it later and they will gain some experience (this is why Seattle is always in the playoff picture). We've been told from day one that the moves will happen this summer in the window. That opens in a week. The goal was to be in good shape by then. As long as we're within a few wins of the playoffs we should be good but....

If Westberg goes down for an extended period then I think we're done. We could sign 7 more TAMs & DPs and we'd probably still drop points.
“Senseless to start” Oso? Sometimes I get the impression that certain guys on this site believe that they are speaking to children or baseball fans that have no idea about soccer tactics. You start Oso because when it’s time to pull him off early in the second half and replace him with our low skilled substitutes, they will be playing against the Crews substitutes. Not starting Oso when you are already down your DP defender in Salcedo is Tim Bits coaching that only Bob Bradley is capable of. Why start Oso against Atlanta and not against Columbus? Toronto kept the game close against Atlanta a better team then the Crew, but fell behind with Oso on the bench. Shame on Bradley, no surprise LAFC canned his ass last year

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 03:14 PM
“Senseless to start” Oso? Sometimes I get the impression that certain guys on this site believe that they are speaking to children or baseball fans that have no idea about soccer tactics. You start Oso because when it’s time to pull him off early in the second half and replace him with our low skilled substitutes, they will be playing against the Crews substitutes. Not starting Oso when you are already down your DP defender in Salcedo is Tim Bits coaching that only Bob Bradley is capable of. Why start Oso against Atlanta and not against Columbus? Toronto kept the game close against Atlanta a better team then the Crew, but fell behind with Oso on the bench. Shame on Bradley, no surprise LAFC canned his ass last year
If they, and by they I mean the trainers and most likely Oso himself, determined he could go 30 to 40 minutes like I said then how exactly would that have extended into the second half?

Also we had Bradley & Priso starting so technically that's a set up with more defensive cover. However Priso didn't show up on short rest and Bradley can only do so much nowadays.

Plus you said it yourself, Atlanta is the better team and an Eastern team so you start your best against them and then rest those that need to against the weaker team. That's how it should work and it would have worked if Westberg & Salcedo would have played.

Section 223
06-30-2022, 03:34 PM
If they, and by they I mean the trainers and most likely Oso himself, determined he could go 30 to 40 minutes like I said then how exactly would that have extended into the second half?

Also we had Bradley & Priso starting so technically that's a set up with more defensive cover. However Priso didn't show up on short rest and Bradley can only do so much nowadays.

Plus you said it yourself, Atlanta is the better team and an Eastern team so you start your best against them and then rest those that need to against the weaker team. That's how it should work and it would have worked if Westberg & Salcedo would have played.
Last time I looked Columbus is also an eastern team and Oso played 48 minutes , they should of started him let him play the half and get him another 10 minutes in the second half, Oso is currently the best player on this team, don’t insult me with Bradley and Priso is more of a defensive cover

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 03:39 PM
Last time I looked Columbus is also an eastern team and Oso played 48 minutes , they should of started him let him play the half and get him another 10 minutes in the second half, Oso is currently the best player on this team, don’t insult me with Bradley and Priso is more of a defensive cover
Osorio prefers to go forward and usually gets involved with link up play with Poz. Priso usually stays back and plays it safe. Maybe too safe with the square passes but safe and Bradley will always be there with either of them so that's unchanging forever. The point I also made was that the Crew are the worse of the two Eastern teams we had to play so you adjust the line up accordingly. Osorio should not have been the key to success for us. He should have been allowed the whole match off but we had Bono marshalling a second best back line and it is what it is.

Also if Bob played Oso for 60 or so and Oso re-tweaked his injury then the same people saying he should have started would say Bob should be fired for risking Oso on short rest for a meaningless match against a team below us (technically) in the standings. So I know how this works; team is shit, manager is shit, everything is shit. Got it. Your point is made again......and again.... and again.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 03:44 PM
“Senseless to start” Oso? Sometimes I get the impression that certain guys on this site believe that they are speaking to children or baseball fans that have no idea about soccer tactics. You start Oso because when it’s time to pull him off early in the second half and replace him with our low skilled substitutes, they will be playing against the Crews substitutes. Not starting Oso when you are already down your DP defender in Salcedo is Tim Bits coaching that only Bob Bradley is capable of. Why start Oso against Atlanta and not against Columbus? Toronto kept the game close against Atlanta a better team then the Crew, but fell behind with Oso on the bench. Shame on Bradley, no surprise LAFC canned his ass last year

How/why Bradley was ever hired is beyond me. He tactically is clueless and is so biased with his son who has no business starting and playing 90 mins a game no matter what. His pathetic shot late was the icing on the cake, Bradley is done.

Nothing we can do now...Manning made this mess, 3rd year out of 4 likely to miss the playoffs despite the highest payroll in the league. If we don't qualify this year with Insgine, Manning has to be fired, he has made a mess of everything he has touched despite huge financial backing. Not sure why MLSE puts up with him.

leedsandTFC
06-30-2022, 03:48 PM
How/why Bradley was ever hired is beyond me. He tactically is clueless and is so biased with his son who has no business starting and playing 90 mins a game no matter what. His pathetic shot late was the icing on the cake, Bradley is done.

Nothing we can do now...Manning made this mess, 3rd year out of 4 likely to miss the playoffs despite the highest payroll in the league. If we don't qualify this year with Insgine, Manning has to be fired, he has made a mess of everything he has touched despite huge financial backing. Not sure why MLSE puts up with him.

bradley has been one of our best players, and bob bradley is a great coach. the team is starting to play with a real identity and are about to be injected with half a team full of superstar/ senior players.

things are looking up and trending in the right direction, this senseless negativity is crazy.

and if we dont make the playoffs it will be 2/4 years, not 3/4.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 03:50 PM
Nothing we can do now...Manning made this mess, 3rd year out of 4 likely to miss the playoffs despite the highest payroll in the league. If we don't qualify this year with Insgine, Manning has to be fired, he has made a mess of everything he has touched despite huge financial backing. Not sure why MLSE puts up with him.
8th highest payroll at the moment. Obviously it will be #1 in another week but you're judging the team based on Feb to now and that's where we are.

I don't think we have to make the playoffs this season as it is year one of the clean up but next year will count for or against him in a lot of ways from success on the pitch to in the stands.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 03:50 PM
It's not a must win at all though. Not yet. Go look at some seasons that Seattle have had for evidence.

As for Osorio, he is coming back from injury and we're on a 4 matches in 16 days stretch. Since he ran out 60 on Saturday he was probably capped at 30-40 this match. It's senseless to start a player to pull them based on minutes in the first half so using them in the second is the smart and normal thing to do.

The wingbacks situation has been explained many times by many people and was included in my point form note on the roster thread to explain to people where we're at and why. Long story short; this is a roster rebuild at it's very beginning so you see what the foundation is. No point in signing randoms in the winter window when mostly everyone is questionable and more expensive. Next, kids don't count against the cap so if you can bleed some in then you will enjoy some cap relief from it later and they will gain some experience (this is why Seattle is always in the playoff picture). We've been told from day one that the moves will happen this summer in the window. That opens in a week. The goal was to be in good shape by then. As long as we're within a few wins of the playoffs we should be good but....

If Westberg goes down for an extended period then I think we're done. We could sign 7 more TAMs & DPs and we'd probably still drop points.


Wingbacks explained many times? Huh...no explanation is good enough. Our wingbacks are not MLS players...yet we force kids that aren't even defenders there...we have nothing going forward with them and give up garbage goals over and over again as they can't defend. What was Petrasso doing on the goals last night? He offered zero going forward. Same with the right back who Bradley thinks is turning into Alexander Arnold or something....

We've been told from day one we are here to compete by Manning....not potentially miss the playoffs for the third time in 4 years. Or barely sneak in and go out meekly like we did 2 years back. Our payroll is too high to be scraping into the playoffs. Other teams also are strengtening. Columbus is dog s.hit and they beat us with a depleted roster in our house...and they are getting some reinforcements....we aren't the only team making moves. We have zero wiggle room. Imagine Insigne goes down or Poz or Jimenez? We'd be done instantly. We have no goal scorers other than them and no creative players othere than Os....

I hope it turns out well but this has been a disaster so far this year and last year.

Agreed on Westburgh...if he goes down we are in big trouble...but then again, Bradley loves Bono and plays him so much...

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 03:52 PM
bradley has been one of our best players, and bob bradley is a great coach. the team is starting to play with a real identity and are about to be injected with half a team full of superstar/ senior players.

things are looking up and trending in the right direction, this senseless negativity is crazy.

and if we dont make the playoffs it will be 2/4 years, not 3/4.

Other teams are getting players too. I am a realist...if we play well, I am will give credit where credit is due...and I love watching Poz play....and cant wait for Insigne to come, he'll be exciting to watch no doubt.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 03:54 PM
8th highest payroll at the moment. Obviously it will be #1 in another week but you're judging the team based on Feb to now and that's where we are.

I don't think we have to make the playoffs this season as it is year one of the clean up but next year will count for or against him in a lot of ways from success on the pitch to in the stands.

So if we miss the playoffs this year, you will give Manning a pass? When would you say enough is enough and he needs to go?

I never heard once Manning say this was a rebuilding year and we can miss the playoffs. Its completely unacceptable. He was the one that brough his clueless buddy Curtis here...he brought the other coach (forgot his name he was so bad)...all Red Bulls rejects...and it was a disaster. Manning has to be accountable for the mess he created.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 03:57 PM
Wingbacks explained many times? Huh...no explanation is good enough.

The explanation is that it's easier to get players in the summer window than the winter one first and foremost. Also if we could bleed in youth at spots like this then it would seriously help our cap situation going forward for many years. Or we could have brought in some journeyman MLSers and paid them $300K for a few years and been possibly better but not guaranteed.

I have no defense for Bradley using Bono so much unless they thought showcasing him early could maybe get him sold in the summer. There really is no other excuse.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 04:03 PM
I never heard once Manning say this was a rebuilding year and we can miss the playoffs. Its completely unacceptable. He was the one that brough his clueless buddy Curtis here...he brought the other coach (forgot his name he was so bad)...all Red Bulls rejects...and it was a disaster. Manning has to be accountable for the mess he created.
He never said it but as a realist I know cleaning up the fiasco caused by Curtis (yes Manning's fault) would take time and any new manager deserves three windows before axes fall. Doing anything now to Manning would undermine where we are now and might set us back even further because you never know who we might get in or what their philosphy may be. Could add another tear down and rebuild year to the whole thing or maybe another Curtis who randomly chose players based on whatever he could find.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 04:11 PM
I have no defense for Bradley using Bono so much unless they thought showcasing him early could maybe get him sold in the summer. There really is no other excuse.

Bono scares the crap out of me...and no doubt his teammates. Did you see late last night, on a passback his pass out wide was so nearly picked off by the forward who got a piece of it when there was all the time in the world to make the pass, yet he almost made a meal out of it....he has zero distribution ability. Or his adventure one time when he came a mile out of the net...luckily no goal.

Oh well, hopefully we can win Saturday, time to start a winning streak. I won't accept missing the playoffs again.

Hala Hrvatska
06-30-2022, 04:15 PM
He never said it but as a realist I know cleaning up the fiasco caused by Curtis (yes Manning's fault) would take time and any new manager deserves three windows before axes fall. Doing anything now to Manning would undermine where we are now and might set us back even further because you never know who we might get in or what their philosphy may be. Could add another tear down and rebuild year to the whole thing or maybe another Curtis who randomly chose players based on whatever he could find.

Agreed its not fair to Bradley Sr but he has made some bone headed decisions this year already and I am not liking what he has done so far...but with Insigne coming, it all could turn around even if the defense is a shambles and in the middle of the park Bradley/Priso just aren't good enough.

When though does Manning get the ax? Imagine how bad we'd be if we didn't have our financial power? Imagine Manning at a small market club, how bad would the team be then? He somehow escapes any accountability time and time again....not sure why. TFC can do MUCH better than Manning.

leedsandTFC
06-30-2022, 04:16 PM
So if we miss the playoffs this year, you will give Manning a pass? When would you say enough is enough and he needs to go?

I never heard once Manning say this was a rebuilding year and we can miss the playoffs. Its completely unacceptable. He was the one that brough his clueless buddy Curtis here...he brought the other coach (forgot his name he was so bad)...all Red Bulls rejects...and it was a disaster. Manning has to be accountable for the mess he created.

we ditched 19 senior players including 2 DPs and multiple TAM players, it was always incredibly clear this was a rebuilding season.

and i would far rather have a mediocre half a season, then add some pieces only available in the summer (insigne, criscito, etc) than bring in MLS journeymen (dwyer, mullins) that we'd be stuck with for years just bc they happen to be available in january.

Ultra & Proud
06-30-2022, 05:07 PM
When though does Manning get the ax? Imagine how bad we'd be if we didn't have our financial power? Imagine Manning at a small market club, how bad would the team be then? He somehow escapes any accountability time and time again....not sure why. TFC can do MUCH better than Manning.
I don't think he does unless there's a severe loss of money. I mean big.

However I think that if he was to get it all wrong and Insigne is a bust and all the moves fail then we will see another Bez / Curtis type guy come in to run TFC and Manning will go back to toying with the Argos and helping out with MLSE real estate ventures.

And Manning already was successful at a small market club. That's why he's here.

DavemTFC
06-30-2022, 06:23 PM
Can we* stop with the MUST WIN 6 POINTER!!!!!@@ bs, it's mid-season, there are no genuine must-win games at this point. As for the 6 pointer stuff, I suggest looking at the standings because nearly half the teams in the East would probably fall under that definition. This isn't abnormal for MLS especially when, again, it's mid-sason.

Yesterday was a bad result but nowhere near the back breaker some people make it out to be

*by we, I mean like 1 or 2 posters

OgtheDim
06-30-2022, 07:07 PM
When people don't show up except during losses, I figured its better to mute then engage.

Section 223
06-30-2022, 07:13 PM
Can we* stop with the MUST WIN 6 POINTER!!!!!@@ bs, it's mid-season, there are no genuine must-win games at this point. As for the 6 pointer stuff, I suggest looking at the standings because nearly half the teams in the East would probably fall under that definition. This isn't abnormal for MLS especially when, again, it's mid-sason.

Yesterday was a bad result but nowhere near the back breaker some people make it out to be

*by we, I mean like 1 or 2 posters
Yea sure and then the season ends you look at the standings and see your team missed the playoffs by one point and you say fuck remember that game late in June…….

Yuushalinsky
06-30-2022, 07:27 PM
Yea sure and then the season ends you look at the standings and see your team missed the playoffs by one point and you say fuck remember that game late in June…….

in a rebuilding year that you seem to not have accepted yet with no expectations

yeah if we make the playoffs thats a bonus

Webdogg
06-30-2022, 08:03 PM
I have the option to go to this game. I’m 0-4 this year but only seen one home game. Should I take one for the team and stay home?

OgtheDim
06-30-2022, 08:20 PM
I have the option to go to this game. I’m 0-4 this year but only seen one home game. Should I take one for the team and stay home?

ALWAYS go to a game - its not your fault. Will be a fun good weather night & likely a good crowd. If I only went when a win was likely, I would never have gone before 2015.

Webdogg
06-30-2022, 09:21 PM
ALWAYS go to a game - its not your fault. Will be a fun good weather night & likely a good crowd. If I only went when a win was likely, I would never have gone before 2015.

4 games, 4 loses.
I gave Chris Armas a fist bump last year so I was concerned there was a connection. I’ll be there so we will see

Gringo Starr
07-01-2022, 07:32 AM
4 games, 4 loses.
I gave Chris Armas a fist bump last year so I was concerned there was a connection. I’ll be there so we will see

Sorry dude you might have to have your hand amputated-its the only way to be sure

Gringo Starr
07-01-2022, 07:36 AM
Whoever did the schedule did some nice work. I really like this run of games against hated teams:Red Bulls, MTL, ATL Columbus and now Seattle, would love to see something similar next season

Kamp Berg
07-01-2022, 11:43 AM
4 games, 4 loses.
I gave Chris Armas a fist bump last year so I was concerned there was a connection. I’ll be there so we will see

I’d say that memory alone has probably caused you enough pain to tip the scales by now, you’re fine.

OgtheDim
07-01-2022, 11:54 AM
4 games, 4 loses.
I gave Chris Armas a fist bump last year so I was concerned there was a connection. I’ll be there so we will see

https://eugeniorgp.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/ladymacbeth.jpg

Yuushalinsky
07-01-2022, 12:30 PM
wow this will be the 3rd match I've gone to in 2 weeks - kinda excited.

Usually I stay up in my little corner in the 200's but might come down and chat with some peeps.

Joe Kool
07-01-2022, 03:20 PM
4 games, 4 loses.
I gave Chris Armas a fist bump last year so I was concerned there was a connection. I’ll be there so we will see

I am going to balance you out. I was at the home opener which was a loss but besides that I have only been able to make it to a handful this year and they won every time I went and I am going to be there tomorrow too. Crisis averted…

Webdogg
07-01-2022, 05:05 PM
I always like going to TFC games. I live more than an hour from Toronto but usually make a day of it to go to the games. Due to work travel I’m in the US more than at home so I’ve taken in 3 road games, NYC, Columbus and Cincinnati. Nothing beat being home and extra bums in the seats help build better teams. Going to be back to back games in Toronto for me as I’m definitely going next week too.

Edit - I should mention that road TFC games are incredibly cheap so it’s nice not getting the wallet lobotomy that MLSE give us.

MightyDM
07-02-2022, 10:53 AM
Game day! I’m not reading the thread just ‘cause. But I am going to go to the game. Seattle! MLS Cup x 3! Frei! MB! Poz! Oso! And judging from training photo, SHAFF! Yutes. Jesus. Will be great.

FootBallAZ
07-02-2022, 11:13 AM
Looks like Bono is starting , not sure how bad Qs injury is

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 12:01 PM
Looks like Bono is starting , not sure how bad Qs injury is
All hope for a clean sheet is lost.

jloome
07-02-2022, 12:11 PM
I always like going to TFC games. I live more than an hour from Toronto but usually make a day of it to go to the games. Due to work travel I’m in the US more than at home so I’ve taken in 3 road games, NYC, Columbus and Cincinnati. Nothing beat being home and extra bums in the seats help build better teams. Going to be back to back games in Toronto for me as I’m definitely going next week too.

Edit - I should mention that road TFC games are incredibly cheap so it’s nice not getting the wallet lobotomy that MLSE give us.

Well, it's $1,600 usually just for me and the wife to fly in, so we have to time any games with visiting other family in Ottawa. Still, I figure four three-day weekends over the last decade have probably run us close to ten grand.

One more reason I loooove living out west. (Note dripping sarcasm.)

I've sort of got her sold on the idea of retiring somewhere nearby, but Ontario's housing prices might rule that out. Still, if we ended up near the rest of my family it's a lot easier to get to games.

jloome
07-02-2022, 12:18 PM
All hope for a clean sheet is lost.

Hey, we get the odd game from him like Chicago last year, with 18 stops. Fingers crossed they never shoot from deep, as he has the worst reaction time/pickup of the ball I've ever seen. Most of his value is reaction keeping.

This will be tough although Seattle has injuries and is apparently resting some people. But Kosi Thompson gets to keep up with Morris' sprinter speed, so that should be interesting.

Even after the CCL Seattle has shown moments of surprising vulnerability or distraction. They're tough to press against because of their speed on the wings but their backline is suspect if we can get on them quickly. Might see BB press high, then leave an extra player back to shield the back, force them to try and play through the center.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 04:42 PM
Downtown is rammed - Blue Jay's, TFC, long weekend.

Bars full

City is alive again

Expect a good crowd tonight

portu
07-02-2022, 05:52 PM
Continually amazed by anyone saying playoffs is a bonus or not an expectation. Qualifying in this league is a joke and you have to be truly terrible not to make the playoffs.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 05:57 PM
Well we have been terrible.

Speaking of which, Petrescu is the ref tonight.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 06:13 PM
Watching Q warm up & kicking right to a spot out of his hand in warmups.

Sooooo much better...

Webdogg
07-02-2022, 06:14 PM
Well we have been terrible.

Speaking of which, Petrescu is the ref tonight.

My kid is good friends with his kid. It’s all I can do to not post his address after some games. Lucky for him the vast majority of MLS refs are bad which doesn’t make him stand out too much.

I’ve always wondered why MLS can’t just fly in random crews like all other sports. It just seems the more local the ref the more you see them.

(Note: he’s honestly a decent guy and his entire family is very nice. He does a fine job holding up the substitute board, he just can’t ref)

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 06:20 PM
Looks like Insigne is on the pitch....

(A kid that looks his son doing some kicks with Mavinga)

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 06:31 PM
Ok, not his kid

jloome
07-02-2022, 06:52 PM
Ok, not his kid

It appears any Salcedo issue has been greatly exaggerated. Shocked, I am.

jloome
07-02-2022, 06:54 PM
Westberg starting.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 06:56 PM
Singing the anthem acapella - always a good thing

Amir.
07-02-2022, 07:11 PM
man bradley is a fighter going hard into every challenge

James17930
07-02-2022, 07:14 PM
We're starting to look like some of our bad times under Vanney - constantly recycling, trying to set up for the perfect play, rather than moving it quickly and really running at and challenging players.

jloome
07-02-2022, 07:15 PM
We're starting to look like some of our bad times under Vanney - constantly recycling, trying to set up for the perfect play, rather than moving it quickly and really running at and challenging players.

Focus and intensity both a little lacking so far. It's like we're trying to figure out an approach still and it's 20 mins in, against Seattle's 'B' team.

jloome
07-02-2022, 07:19 PM
Man, this is fucking awful right now.

We're just giving away bad shit all over the park.

IT's a bit embarrassing how badly we're playing right now.

James17930
07-02-2022, 07:20 PM
Focus and intensity both a little lacking so far. It's like we're trying to figure out an approach still and it's 20 mins in, against Seattle's 'B' team.

Could be down to third game in a week, but I also feel this is where we really miss Ritchie - he was the only player we had who could really run at guys and get in behind. Nelson is trying to be that guy, but ... well, he's trying.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:34 PM
In the stadium, intense game played at pace.

James17930
07-02-2022, 07:36 PM
In the stadium, intense game played at pace.

So weird how it can look so different on TV.

jloome
07-02-2022, 07:36 PM
Eek.

This 'Pozuelo free floating' thing doesn't work. It just ruins any cohesion in transition.

rydermike
07-02-2022, 07:37 PM
Petrasso watching the ball completely lost his man

jloome
07-02-2022, 07:39 PM
In the stadium, intense game played at pace.

On TV, we look like half-hearted dog shit. Late passes, poor touches, tentative movement, little supporting movement.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:39 PM
Guy at pace crashes the net.... One day we will do that..
one day

Amir.
07-02-2022, 07:41 PM
not good enough at fullback on either side...the game plan of any team facing toronto should be going at the fullbacks and results could be pretty good...gotta go with something like criscito left back and rutty right back

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:42 PM
The difference is there wide guys go at the line at pace. We.... can't seem to be urgent

Bushmancan
07-02-2022, 07:42 PM
Eek.

This 'Pozuelo free floating' thing doesn't work. It just ruins any cohesion in transition.

Add to that, I have no idea what Akinola’s role is. Two games like this now

James17930
07-02-2022, 07:44 PM
Add to that, I have no idea what Akinola’s role is. Two games like this now

I'm thinking maybe we should be a 4-4-2 - Jesus and Ayo the out-and-out strikers, Poz sitting below them, etc. 3 in the midfield doesn't seem to be working for us.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:45 PM
Giving the ball to Nelson is like letting Bono take a goal kick

jloome
07-02-2022, 07:47 PM
Awful.

Wrong tactics, poor effort generally.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:49 PM
JMR coming on it looks like.

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 07:51 PM
Absolute dog s.hit. Getting dominated by Seattle’s B team who played mid week and flew across the country in a different time zone.

Bradley Sr has to go. He puts this horrible line up out there. Thompson and Petrasdo are not full backs and get exposed over and over.

Bradley Jr had at least 6 giveaways. But we know won’t be taken off.

Nelson again running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Enough. Sub him now.

Salcedo, disaster class gets skinned alive for the goal.

And Akinola, another disaster half. Literally does nothing. Is hopeless and ffs, completely out of shape. Can’t move.

Shameful half in a must win. Again.

Manning created this mess, has to be fired tonight. Stop the rot.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 07:52 PM
Kerr also warming up

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 07:52 PM
Quit being negative. /s

Tactics all on the college coach Bradley. Against Seattle’s B team. Manning and Bradley have to go. Enough of this garbage.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 07:52 PM
Giving the ball to Nelson is like letting Bono take a goal kick

I'd hook him for Schaff now. Somebody has to run at some point and he is probably the only guy we have in the bench that will.

notthesun
07-02-2022, 07:54 PM
I genuinely don't understand how Salcedo sucks this bad, but... he just does?

Good experience (nearly 50 caps for Mexico??!?), athletic, strong on the ball for a CB. And he's terrible.

I brushed off his early struggles completely, I thought for sure a guy of his pedigree would prove his quality once he's settled in. I can't even criticize the signing, the money maybe, but the player? Honestly at a loss, he should be good but my lord is he not good.

Bobo
07-02-2022, 07:55 PM
How does a team in MLS not even get an accidental, undeserved clean sheet in 26 games? Takes some doing to find ways to concede in so many consecutive matches.

Akinola doing the ol' oversized-shirt-to-hide-the-gut move I pulled all the time in my 20s.

MightyDM
07-02-2022, 07:56 PM
I think people are being harsh - ponderous is a fair criticism but there have been moments. The young guys are off the pace today.

ag futbol
07-02-2022, 07:58 PM
Didn’t see the goal but earlier in the half I thought we played okay and stung some decent passes together.

That said, I think something has to change up top. Not sure Akinola is still justifying his starting spot. Although, maybe my opinion will change when LI slots in for Nelson

noxx98
07-02-2022, 08:00 PM
Kerr and JMR look to be coming on

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 08:02 PM
Poz as forward

noxx98
07-02-2022, 08:15 PM
Also Bono clearly cares about this team. Dude is on the edge of his seat and standing up and points to encourage the team.

James17930
07-02-2022, 08:16 PM
It really does feel like BB is trying to shoehorn players into his system rather than finding a system that works for them.

I hate that.

Bushmancan
07-02-2022, 08:16 PM
It’s early but Seattle has parked the bus but still score

Kamp Berg
07-02-2022, 08:17 PM
I don’t understand leaving Neson on, didn’t Petrasso have 3 assists early in the season playing as a winger.

jloome
07-02-2022, 08:17 PM
It’s early but Seattle has parked the bus but still score

We look like the half-team we are right now.

Very poor though, turning off like that.

Inklink
07-02-2022, 08:18 PM
Close your eyes Lorenzo, don't watch this shit.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 08:19 PM
Yeah, very Vanneyesque, except with kids

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 08:23 PM
Whisper it quietly but maybe our problem is Poz's insistence on that extra touch to find space

stevep
07-02-2022, 08:24 PM
Jayden Nelson is a very poor mans Soltedlo

James17930
07-02-2022, 08:24 PM
And why do so many of our players have such poor first touches? How many times does the ball bounce 2 feet away when they receive the ball?

It's ridiculous.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:24 PM
Whisper it quietly but maybe our problem is Poz's insistence on that extra touch to find space

Yes, 100 percent absolutely Poz is our glaring problem out there…

ag futbol
07-02-2022, 08:27 PM
Yes, 100 percent absolutely Poz is our glaring problem out there…
He’s just miscast.

We need another 2-way mid and as much as Poz will try… it’s not his strength

Inklink
07-02-2022, 08:30 PM
I wonder if the unpolished youngsters will be even more tentative when Insigne is playing. That's my fear.

jloome
07-02-2022, 08:30 PM
I dunno, Kosi looks less like a fullback every time he plays. he was doing really well earlier in the season as a midfielder, not sure why we moved him. Smacks of trying to jam talent into holes, ala Shaff at wingback.

Inklink
07-02-2022, 08:31 PM
lol Salcedo, good kick

ag futbol
07-02-2022, 08:32 PM
I dunno, Kosi looks less like a fullback every time he plays. he was doing really well earlier in the season as a midfielder, not sure why we moved him. Smacks of trying to jam talent into holes, ala Shaff at wingback.

Yeah I was going to say. I am sure Kosi has the potential to be a fine professional but at this stage he’s the weakest link on the pitch and a glaring weakness.

Nelson gets better all the time. Think he’ll be a good second half sub as he continues to develop

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:34 PM
He’s just miscast.

We need another 2-way mid and as much as Poz will try… it’s not his strength

I’m not sure if you are also being sarcastic as well, and sorry if I misread it, but I’m suggesting that any talk of Poz in any sort of “he’s our problem” capacity is absolutely, completely crazy, no matter where he plays. Watching him with this supporting cast(minus Jesus) is so incredibly frustrating, I could not imagine how it would feel for him to actually be playing in it.

ag futbol
07-02-2022, 08:36 PM
I’m not sure if you are also being sarcastic as well, and sorry if I misread it, but I’m suggesting that any talk of Poz in any sort of “he’s our problem” capacity is absolutely, completely crazy, no matter where he plays. Watching him with this supporting cast(minus Jesus) is so incredibly frustrating, I could not imagine how it would feel for him to actually be playing in it.
Ha! Yeah I figured there might be some sarcasm in there. Bradley’s stubbornly sticking to his system isn’t getting the most out of Poz. That is pretty clear

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 08:37 PM
Poz slows everything down. It's become the only way every one on the team approaches passing.

Richie did not do that. Shaff does not.

There is no pace at their line.

Inklink
07-02-2022, 08:39 PM
Hmmmm,

Drew Carey, from Cleveland, partially owns the Seattle Sounders, who have a player named Cleveland.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:40 PM
Ha! Yeah I figured there might be some sarcasm in there. Bradley’s stubbornly sticking to his system isn’t getting the most out of Poz. That is pretty clear

Agreed. And in fairness to Bradley(unless it’s his own inability to fill a roster with better talent) - this roster could not survive any system with the players on the squad. Go down the list, there is just not enough there.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:42 PM
Poz slows everything down. It's become the only way every one on the team approaches passing.

Richie did not do that. Shaff does not.

There is no pace at their line.

Again, why is our best player on the team being singled out as a problem? No one makes runs. He can’t pass to anyone because they aren’t in the right places or attacking.

jloome
07-02-2022, 08:44 PM
Nobody's showing for the fucking ball. Salcedo outside the box, too far to just dump it in, and no one moves.

Jesus H.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:44 PM
Again, why is our best player on the team being singled out as a problem? No one makes runs. He can’t pass to anyone because they aren’t in the right places or attacking.

So we’ve played Shaff a bunch, he’s done what exactly with his time? I like the player, but when he’s out and we’re still losing, is he really that effective?

Kamp Berg
07-02-2022, 08:45 PM
So they sleepwalk through 85 minutes, giving up 2 goals, then decide to wake up and finally try when it’s too late? Very frustrating.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 08:46 PM
Because our best player is the example they all follow.

And it's not a good thing

jloome
07-02-2022, 08:47 PM
So we’ve played Shaff a bunch, he’s done what exactly with his time? I like the player, but when he’s out and we’re still losing, is he really that effective?

I dunno man, he had three goals and three assists on an even worse team. He has speed, he gets to the line quickly, he gets dangerous crosses in.

It's like we're insisting on playing from the same two zones into the box and waiting for a buildup every time. It's reductive and easy to defend with a low block.

So maybe we need to sit deeper, play a big switch counter and put some speed on the wing that actually produces a decent delivery.

Kamp Berg
07-02-2022, 08:47 PM
Well, looks like there will probably be a shutout tonight.

jloome
07-02-2022, 08:49 PM
We've spread the field way too much all night. We're always trying to make exit or outlet passes that are too long, with no one close to supporting each other because the lines are spread too far apart.

Tonight hasn't just been on the kids. We were set up very poorly tactically, or at the very least it translated poorly.

ag futbol
07-02-2022, 08:50 PM
Demoralizing loss. Some things have to change LI or not

Kamp Berg
07-02-2022, 08:53 PM
Wow, that’s was just plain bad. At this rate, the only kids that will end up as starters, won’t be for TFC. There wasn’t even any urgency. Maybe JMR, before he’s sold.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 08:53 PM
Because our best player is the example they all follow.

And it's not a good thing

I don’t know what exactly you were watching tonight or the rest of the season up until now, but if any of the players he set up tonight had half as much skill as him, we would have one this game very easily. His support out there constantly let’s his created chances go to waste, time and again. I’m not sure what this example is you’re referring to, but when Poz is running harder, attacking better and creating more than everyone else, I guess there is just no pleasing you

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 08:57 PM
Absolute s.hit show against Seattle’s reserve side.

6 points down the drain at home against depleted sides. And Seattle hit the post on a sitter and had another wide open chance stvthe end. Could have been worse.

Bradley has no clue what he is going.

Akinola was horrible yet again.

Apart from Poz it was a disaster for everyone. I’d be pulling my hair out if I was Poz having to play with the garbage he is surrounded by apart from Jimenez.

Tell me again Bradley supporters, how is he not tactically clueless?

And I ask again, what would it take to hs e Bradley Jr ever subbed off?

6 points firm the drain another missed playoff. Manning escapes any accountability for this over and over. All I can think of is he has nudes on mlse exec keeping him here.

Totally pissed. We have outside Poz and Jesus no quality whatsoever.

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 08:58 PM
Demoralizing and humiliating. Manning should be fired tonight. And Bradley tomorrow. Insigne must be horrified watching that crap. I

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 09:00 PM
Exactly. Poz is all we got. He creates space, draws defenders and put balls on silver platters to players who have no clue what to do with it and time after time and waste chances Poz creates.

Poz was the best player on the field by a mile.

Hala Hrvatska
07-02-2022, 09:01 PM
Even Jmr, all he does is pass it back. Safe pass backs that literally anyone can do.

stevep
07-02-2022, 09:03 PM
Tfc needs to average 1.9ppg the rest of the way to make the playoffs
#bobbradleyout

who in there right mind would get season seats next year
there was 5 pylons out in the field at any time tonight
who would pay $100 ticket for this garbage
anybody that does pay $100/ticket deserves this crap

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 09:10 PM
We've spread the field way too much all night. "

At the stadium, we could see the Seattle wingers hug the sidelines.

Our guys never did that.

The ball went out wide, sometimes, and then it stalled for a bit and went backwards.

stevep
07-02-2022, 09:11 PM
At the stadium, we could see the Seattle wingers hug the sidelines.

Our guys never did that.

The ball went out wide, sometimes, and then it stalled for a bit and went backwards.

you keep saying our guys did this our guys did that
whi gives a fuck what they did
theyre all garbage
Dont you get that

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 09:12 PM
Meh... at the game and Poz slows the game down.

Skill set doesn't excuse this. And the young guys are emulating this.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 09:22 PM
Meh... at the game and Poz slows the game down.

Skill set doesn't excuse this. And the young guys are emulating this.

Every player out there slowed it down or were afraid to play positively. The kids played scared and it shouldn't surprise any one of them when/if they end up in the CPL.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 09:23 PM
Meh... at the game and Poz slows the game down.

Skill set doesn't excuse this. And the young guys are emulating this.

Yup, got it, you keep saying you were at the game. So, when you were at the game, like, right at the game, did you not see the complete lack of skill, talent, football IQ that I could see - also from the stands?

I honestly don’t even know how to respond to your take on this subject of Poz. It’s baffling, like totally totally baffling when there are so many other problems with players on this team.

stevep
07-02-2022, 09:31 PM
Yup, got it, you keep saying you were at the game. So, when you were at the game, like, right at the game, did you not see the complete lack of skill, talent, football IQ that I could see - also from the stands?

I honestly don’t even know how to respond to your take on this subject of Poz. It’s baffling, like totally totally baffling when there are so many other problems with players on this team.
Poz was super man out there tonight
Surrounded by 5 absolute pylons
what other outcome does anyone expect

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 09:31 PM
Yup, got it, you keep saying you were at the game. So, when you were at the game, like, right at the game, did you not see the complete lack of skill, talent, football IQ that I could see - also from the stands?

I honestly don’t even know how to respond to your take on this subject of Poz. It’s baffling, like totally totally baffling when there are so many other problems with players on this team.

Poz is a problem too though. He is slow and he's taking too long to make passing decisions so he's getting closed down and giving the ball away. He isn't the biggest of our issues but he is one of them.

OgtheDim
07-02-2022, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I get soccer IQ.

I also get this fascination with the potential of the juke around a player is easy on the eye.

Until you notice it doesn't actually get a shot off

The difference between Poz and Nelson is the % of successful passes that go forward is higher with Poz.

When he first got here, he did a bit of this dribbling through players but we gave him outlets of runners.

Now nobody moves because Poz ALWAYS takes at least 2 extra touches. Wide attack play isn't rewarded. Runs by Jesus & Akinola only get a pass once or twice a game.

This is what we complained about Auro doing.

There is no verticality.

Now as jloome points out, this might be because we are forcing the ball into 2 zones. It's BB's mo in LAFC and... I'm not sure it will work anymore without speed on the wings and a direct threat.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 09:47 PM
Poz is a problem too though. He is slow and he's taking too long to make passing decisions so he's getting closed down and giving the ball away. He isn't the biggest of our issues but he is one of them.

Yeah I completely agree he’s taking too long, because nobody has any sort of attacking instinct to give him an option to pass to. These kids man, when poz gets the ball, they should be attacking the line, giving him options. They don’t. They don’t know what to do, how to attack, and where to run.
Poz is on another level IQ wise, and I’m sure it’s hard for him to look where he knows he should be looking, and then passing, only to find the players a step behind.
I’m sorry, but you can’t put this on Poz. None of it.
If he had MLS quality players around him, he would shine, instead his passes go missed, or the chance never happens because no one is where they should be or know what to do to receive the ball in the right spot.

MightyDM
07-02-2022, 09:50 PM
I don’t understand the BB two zone idea - I need it explained.

but. Agree with OG re Poz And as a former striker, if your AM doesn’t see the run and move the ball first touch, you do get fed up and it’s hard to make them - not just mentally, but when do you move if you don’t know when the ball will be released. My take is Poz was trying to do too much and in so doing really creates issues for the team. Lots of blame to go around though. None of the young players except Ralph Priso and maybe Kerr were at it tonight. And I agree with JLoome. If you are going to beat a defensive shell, you need someone direct - Shaff.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 09:58 PM
Yeah, I get soccer IQ.

I also get this fascination with the potential of the juke around a player is easy on the eye.

Until you notice it doesn't actually get a shot off

The difference between Poz and Nelson is the % of successful passes that go forward is higher with Poz.

When he first got here, he did a bit of this dribbling through players but we gave him outlets of runners.

Now nobody moves because Poz ALWAYS takes at least 2 extra touches. Wide attack play isn't rewarded. Runs by Jesus & Akinola only get a pass once or twice a game.

This is what we complained about Auro doing.

There is no verticality.

Now as jloome points out, this might be because we are forcing the ball into 2 zones. It's BB's mo in LAFC and... I'm not sure it will work anymore without speed on the wings and a direct threat.

Please don’t talk to me like I’m a student in your classroom of soccer knowledge.
I know soccer too.

Let me ask you what you think would happen if Poz wasn’t there? Do you think suddenly all these players will start to look for runs, increase their intensity and begin attacking in a more effective way than what they’re showing so far? Are they suddenly going to be able to kick a ball at the net from any distance? Control a pass, and show some true quality and score? Make that nice final touch, or pass? I don’t think so, but whatever.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 10:30 PM
Let me ask you what you think would happen if Poz wasn’t there?

It would have been exactly the same. No difference at all.

And what does that say?

JoesphNdo
07-02-2022, 10:33 PM
Pozuelo is 14th in the league for key passes (despite being ham strung by playing for us) and behind just about every coherent attack we've had this season. The idea that he's not getting the ball to forwards, and so much so that they aren't making runs any more, is frankly insane. He is by far our best player this season.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 10:48 PM
It would have been exactly the same. No difference at all.

And what does that say?

Laughable. Seriously, is there such homer blinders on that somehow these kids without our best player are somehow going to turn into stars capable of winning games? Am I being trolled here, because I’m starting to think that’s the only way this conversation has continued. I’m done with this crazy notion of Poz being a problem

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 10:50 PM
Pozuelo is 14th in the league for key passes (despite being ham strung by playing for us) and behind just about every coherent attack we've had this season. The idea that he's not getting the ball to forwards, and so much so that they aren't making runs any more, is frankly insane. He is by far our best player this season.
I never said that. I just said he is also guilty of slowing the game down. It's true that nobody made any runs for him to pick out but before he made his own space and created his own chances. Looks like he's missing that right now.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 10:51 PM
Laughable. Seriously, is there such homer blinders on that somehow fuses kids without our best player are somehow going to turn into stars capable of winning games? Am I being trolled here, because I’m starting to think that’s the only way this conversation has continued. I’m done with this crazy notion of Poz being a problem
I also didn't say that either. I said they would have all stood around, managed nothing, and got shut out. Same as what happened.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 11:01 PM
One thing that bothers me about the young guys is how they pass up open space for the safest outlet. A few times it seemed like Kosi wanted the ball out of his feet to shirk responsibility. Like hot potato. I don't get how at least one of these guys don't look back at Richie and how he did things. Sure space might be left open behind but it's worth it when we're creating little. The blueprint is right there and look what it did for us while he was here and where it got Richie in the end.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 11:05 PM
Right, but Poz didn’t do any of what you just said. And that is mostly my whole point. He worked harder, made better plays, and created everything that we had - every time, the chance went to waste with a bad touch, or poor decision, and terrible quality.
Again, if someone thinks he is the problem, I just don’t know what to say. When one has no help, they tend to try to do it alone, which is his season so far, and will continue until LI arrives.

TMAN80
07-02-2022, 11:08 PM
It bothers me too. It comes down to quality in my opinion.
They know they can’t get past their defender, or if they move into the space their given, they get closed down and lose their “easy, pass responsibility” play and just look bad - something like Nelson does a million times a game.

Gringo Starr
07-02-2022, 11:09 PM
I don’t get how in a season where every kid has got a run of minutes Perruzza hasn’t had a sniff of a chance. Jesus looked spent, we are down 2 why not put the kid on for 20 minutes or so.

reggie
07-02-2022, 11:11 PM
poz this poz that,we need a new back 5.our D is a disaster,seattle s C team carved up the 3.5 mil cb combo all night.you cant go down 2 nil every game and expect to get a results.

Ultra & Proud
07-02-2022, 11:14 PM
Right, but Poz didn’t do any of what you just said. And that is mostly my whole point. He worked harder, made better plays, and created everything that we had - every time, the chance went to waste with a bad touch, or poor decision, and terrible quality.
Again, if someone thinks he is the problem, I just don’t know what to say. When one has no help, they tend to try to do it alone, which is his season so far, and will continue until LI arrives.
Everyone barring Westberg & the CBs are presently part of this particular problem, Bradley's tactics included. We don't create enough chances and we attack too slow. We've done it all season. Perhaps that's something Bob did to prevent us getting slaughtered on the counter from sloppy give aways but there has to be a balance.

stevep
07-02-2022, 11:36 PM
Everyone barring Westberg & the CBs are presently part of this particular problem, Bradley's tactics included. We don't create enough chances and we attack too slow. We've done it all season. Perhaps that's something Bob did to prevent us getting slaughtered on the counter from sloppy give aways but there has to be a balance.


The Seasons over. No way TFC makes the playoffs

Richard
07-02-2022, 11:50 PM
The Seasons over. No way TFC makes the playoffs

It's not over just yet because of MLS parity, having said that when Insigne joins we need a good run of games.

We also need those incoming transfers Manning keeps alluding too, nobody wants to continue watching Poz(and Insigne) play with a bunch of kids that have no clue how to play.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 05:42 AM
So I wake up and I don't hear any news Manning and his puppet Bradley have been fired. What is MLSE waiting for?

We aren't even competitive. And I was "at the game" lol. Wasted huge bucks on 4 tickets, food, drink, parking...and sat through that absolute s.hit show. Apart from Poz-who is a joy to watch-and Jesus who is literally up front by himself, this team lacks any quality. An embarrasing lack of any quality and many of these "kids" would be crap in the cpl...mind you we did squeek by two cpl teams, one via penalties...only because of Poz...our kids are hopeless and embarrassingly out of their depth. A few would be bench guys on my Friday night beer rec league team, and I am not kidding.

When is this failed experiment with these useless "kids" ending? They aren't good enough nor ever will be good enough. Compounding the fact that clueless American college coach Bradley decided to have no outside full back and put in kids that aren't full backs, and what did he or his buddy Manning thing was going to happen? We have the most goals against in the whole league....it doesn't help with slow as molasses Bradley Jr as the "shield"....as we get overun time and time again. How many give aways did Bradley have in the firs half alone? I counted at least 5...but who knows maybe more as I might have missed some as other fans headed for beers during the game (and blocked my view) to drown their sorrows watching that disaster class.

Akinola, who embarrasingly out of shape, starts again and literaly did nothing again. Hey Bradley Sr, lets start Akinola some more, maybe by the end of the season he'll lose a few pounds and might get 10 touches.

Nelson, the chicken with his head cut off, running around until he loses it or passes it back again stinks up the joint. Remind me again why he continues to play?

Thompson and Petasso have zero awareness on the defensive end. Salcedo got torched but Thompson's man first beat him to a long floating kick from the keeper with ease...and then Petrasso just let his man get a tap in..should have been subbed right then and there for giving up on the play.

Second goal, same s.hit, long speculative ball that jmr just let his man bring down and then they carved us up so easily. Mavinga stops running and Bradley nowhere to be found to prevent his man from slicing open the d...there were two wide open Seattle guys on the breakaway goal...ffs, where was the entire D and Osorio? Appalling d and par for the course...its how Columbus got their goal the other night...just slice open the back with a simple pass....

Oso, god bless the guy, but apart from missing that volley, was anonymous. Combine him with bradley and why we got over run in the centre midfield by some journeymen scrubs from Seattle...

And mind you, this was Seattle's "B" team that played midweek and flew across the country and dominated us. So humiliating. They hit the woodwork from on a sitter and missed a breakaway also. COuld have been much worse had they not been content to just win easily 2-0. Imagine us going to Seattle with our "b" team against their best team, we'd get pummled. We just lost to two depleted dog s.hit teams and some still pretend all is good....I just don't get it.

Ingsigne can't save this season, its a disaster. How Manning continues to be employed by mlse is shocking to me. He created this mess and then hands over the keys to the bradley who has zero tactical ability. He stood on the sideline with that clueless look.

Am stunned how dismal that was. Then stuck in the parking lot and took hours to get out of there to cap off another s.hit game. Thanks Manning, thanks Bradley.

I watched the post game presser now...and of course they trot up father and son with the lame excuses. Both have to go today.

If this is a "rebuild" why the hell is Bradley Jr still there? And again I ask, is there a clause in his contract or his dear old dad's contract that says Bradley Jr must start and not get subbed? (am being dead serious).

Rant over. And I don't feel better, am still fuming after watching that garbage.

I'll be there next Sat just to see Poz and Insigne.

Oh well.

MightyDM
07-03-2022, 06:40 AM
I love seeing the young players grow. It’s a joy this season and worth the price of my four tickets + a beer. (I bike to the games; easy and free). Yesterday my take was that they were never at it - unlike the Columbus and Montréal games where they started on the front foot and took the game to the other team. The younger players in particular looked mentally tired And that makes sense; mental strength is part of the learning process too. As for the debate: Poz was trying to do too much - you cannot really make runs off somekne playing that way, because there is no way to anticipate. Hard to blame him on the night though. And it’s worth listening the BB’s press conference afterwards, particularly what they were trying to do at the half ie play wide. Speaks to JLoome’s point that we needed Shaff. Not sure Kerr is a effective wide player at this point.

MightyDM
07-03-2022, 06:44 AM
Based on Bobs comments about Poz, I wouldn’t be surprised if we play 4-2-3-1 next week with Jesus the 1 and LI Poz Nelsen the 3

MightyDM
07-03-2022, 06:47 AM
Also: https://twitter.com/total_tfc/status/1543556080889913344?s=21&t=N67KTlH70Sr6zs0oiCVLuw

Kamp Berg
07-03-2022, 07:41 AM
Also: https://twitter.com/total_tfc/status/1543556080889913344?s=21&t=N67KTlH70Sr6zs0oiCVLuw

It seems like Bradley is one of the only players that can be counted on for consistency this year. It’ll take a pretty big leap for one of the kids to displace him.

Gringo Starr
07-03-2022, 07:42 AM
There is plenty of cheap parking in liberty village and the stroll along Duffrin eliminates the Go tunnel hassle. That and new players incoming, life really isn't that bad Hala

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 07:59 AM
Also: https://twitter.com/total_tfc/status/1543556080889913344?s=21&t=N67KTlH70Sr6zs0oiCVLuw

How many giveaways? I counted 5 in the first half alone.

And nowhere to be found on the second goal. Just like the Columbus both goals the other night.

Poz was the player of the match, no one else was even close.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 08:01 AM
It seems like Bradley is one of the only players that can be counted on for consistency this year. It’ll take a pretty big leap for one of the kids to displace him.

That's the sad thing, as bad and finished as Bradley is, we didn't buy his replacement and are stuck with him for years still. And with dad as coach, he knows he plays no matter what.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 08:07 AM
There is plenty of cheap parking in liberty village and the stroll along Duffrin eliminates the Go tunnel hassle. That and new players incoming, life really isn't that bad Hala

Life is good, watching this isn't though. Thanks for the parking tip at least, will use it Saturday. With my luck though, Insigne won't be "ready" to play and it will be another boring/frusrating loss to a crap team and I'll be stuck in traffic post game.

Insigne is coming (looking forward to him) and Poz is very good but they can be double/triple teamed and opponents will just let the useless Nelsons, Shalfelburgges, Kerrs, and Akinolas have the ball and nothing will happen.

Imagine how bad we'd have lost last night if Seattle didn't send their reserve team?

Canary10
07-03-2022, 08:07 AM
So I wake up and I don't hear any news Manning and his puppet Bradley have been fired. What is MLSE waiting for?

We aren't even competitive. And I was "at the game" lol. Wasted huge bucks on 4 tickets, food, drink, parking...and sat through that absolute s.hit show. Apart from Poz-who is a joy to watch-and Jesus who is literally up front by himself, this team lacks any quality. An embarrasing lack of any quality and many of these "kids" would be crap in the cpl...mind you we did squeek by two cpl teams, one via penalties...only because of Poz...our kids are hopeless and embarrassingly out of their depth. A few would be bench guys on my Friday night beer rec league team, and I am not kidding.

When is this failed experiment with these useless "kids" ending? They aren't good enough nor ever will be good enough. Compounding the fact that clueless American college coach Bradley decided to have no outside full back and put in kids that aren't full backs, and what did he or his buddy Manning thing was going to happen? We have the most goals against in the whole league....it doesn't help with slow as molasses Bradley Jr as the "shield"....as we get overun time and time again. How many give aways did Bradley have in the firs half alone? I counted at least 5...but who knows maybe more as I might have missed some as other fans headed for beers during the game (and blocked my view) to drown their sorrows watching that disaster class.

Akinola, who embarrasingly out of shape, starts again and literaly did nothing again. Hey Bradley Sr, lets start Akinola some more, maybe by the end of the season he'll lose a few pounds and might get 10 touches.

Nelson, the chicken with his head cut off, running around until he loses it or passes it back again stinks up the joint. Remind me again why he continues to play?

Thompson and Petasso have zero awareness on the defensive end. Salcedo got torched but Thompson's man first beat him to a long floating kick from the keeper with ease...and then Petrasso just let his man get a tap in..should have been subbed right then and there for giving up on the play.

Second goal, same s.hit, long speculative ball that jmr just let his man bring down and then they carved us up so easily. Mavinga stops running and Bradley nowhere to be found to prevent his man from slicing open the d...there were two wide open Seattle guys on the breakaway goal...ffs, where was the entire D and Osorio? Appalling d and par for the course...its how Columbus got their goal the other night...just slice open the back with a simple pass....

Oso, god bless the guy, but apart from missing that volley, was anonymous. Combine him with bradley and why we got over run in the centre midfield by some journeymen scrubs from Seattle...

And mind you, this was Seattle's "B" team that played midweek and flew across the country and dominated us. So humiliating. They hit the woodwork from on a sitter and missed a breakaway also. COuld have been much worse had they not been content to just win easily 2-0. Imagine us going to Seattle with our "b" team against their best team, we'd get pummled. We just lost to two depleted dog s.hit teams and some still pretend all is good....I just don't get it.

Ingsigne can't save this season, its a disaster. How Manning continues to be employed by mlse is shocking to me. He created this mess and then hands over the keys to the bradley who has zero tactical ability. He stood on the sideline with that clueless look.

Am stunned how dismal that was. Then stuck in the parking lot and took hours to get out of there to cap off another s.hit game. Thanks Manning, thanks Bradley.

I watched the post game presser now...and of course they trot up father and son with the lame excuses. Both have to go today.

If this is a "rebuild" why the hell is Bradley Jr still there? And again I ask, is there a clause in his contract or his dear old dad's contract that says Bradley Jr must start and not get subbed? (am being dead serious).

Rant over. And I don't feel better, am still fuming after watching that garbage.

I'll be there next Sat just to see Poz and Insigne.

Oh well.

I actually don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying but I’m not as negative. It’s clear the end of this “failed” experiment with the kids starts next weekend and into this transfer window. The football has been really hard to watch a lot of the time. I’d be surprised if any of the kids are still playing at this level 3 years from now. But we have a lot to look forward to.

Kamp Berg
07-03-2022, 08:15 AM
That's the sad thing, as bad and finished as Bradley is, we didn't buy his replacement and are stuck with him for years still. And with dad as coach, he knows he plays no matter what.

I do agree with the sentiment of your statement but I also think this season’s reset was badly needed and long overdue. Hopefully all the pain of this season is the housecleaning and preparation that leads to a better identity, a driven team, and a rejuvenated academy.

stevep
07-03-2022, 08:38 AM
So I wake up and I don't hear any news Manning and his puppet Bradley have been fired. What is MLSE waiting for?

We aren't even competitive. And I was "at the game" lol. Wasted huge bucks on 4 tickets, food, drink, parking...and sat through that absolute s.hit show. Apart from Poz-who is a joy to watch-and Jesus who is literally up front by himself, this team lacks any quality. An embarrasing lack of any quality and many of these "kids" would be crap in the cpl...mind you we did squeek by two cpl teams, one via penalties...only because of Poz...our kids are hopeless and embarrassingly out of their depth. A few would be bench guys on my Friday night beer rec league team, and I am not kidding.

When is this failed experiment with these useless "kids" ending? They aren't good enough nor ever will be good enough. Compounding the fact that clueless American college coach Bradley decided to have no outside full back and put in kids that aren't full backs, and what did he or his buddy Manning thing was going to happen? We have the most goals against in the whole league....it doesn't help with slow as molasses Bradley Jr as the "shield"....as we get overun time and time again. How many give aways did Bradley have in the firs half alone? I counted at least 5...but who knows maybe more as I might have missed some as other fans headed for beers during the game (and blocked my view) to drown their sorrows watching that disaster class.

Akinola, who embarrasingly out of shape, starts again and literaly did nothing again. Hey Bradley Sr, lets start Akinola some more, maybe by the end of the season he'll lose a few pounds and might get 10 touches.

Nelson, the chicken with his head cut off, running around until he loses it or passes it back again stinks up the joint. Remind me again why he continues to play?

Thompson and Petasso have zero awareness on the defensive end. Salcedo got torched but Thompson's man first beat him to a long floating kick from the keeper with ease...and then Petrasso just let his man get a tap in..should have been subbed right then and there for giving up on the play.

Second goal, same s.hit, long speculative ball that jmr just let his man bring down and then they carved us up so easily. Mavinga stops running and Bradley nowhere to be found to prevent his man from slicing open the d...there were two wide open Seattle guys on the breakaway goal...ffs, where was the entire D and Osorio? Appalling d and par for the course...its how Columbus got their goal the other night...just slice open the back with a simple pass....

Oso, god bless the guy, but apart from missing that volley, was anonymous. Combine him with bradley and why we got over run in the centre midfield by some journeymen scrubs from Seattle...

And mind you, this was Seattle's "B" team that played midweek and flew across the country and dominated us. So humiliating. They hit the woodwork from on a sitter and missed a breakaway also. COuld have been much worse had they not been content to just win easily 2-0. Imagine us going to Seattle with our "b" team against their best team, we'd get pummled. We just lost to two depleted dog s.hit teams and some still pretend all is good....I just don't get it.

Ingsigne can't save this season, its a disaster. How Manning continues to be employed by mlse is shocking to me. He created this mess and then hands over the keys to the bradley who has zero tactical ability. He stood on the sideline with that clueless look.

Am stunned how dismal that was. Then stuck in the parking lot and took hours to get out of there to cap off another s.hit game. Thanks Manning, thanks Bradley.

I watched the post game presser now...and of course they trot up father and son with the lame excuses. Both have to go today.

If this is a "rebuild" why the hell is Bradley Jr still there? And again I ask, is there a clause in his contract or his dear old dad's contract that says Bradley Jr must start and not get subbed? (am being dead serious).

Rant over. And I don't feel better, am still fuming after watching that garbage.

I'll be there next Sat just to see Poz and Insigne.

Oh well.

so well said
100% truth
Ps: this board is THe Twilight Zone

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 08:38 AM
I actually don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying but I’m not as negative. It’s clear the end of this “failed” experiment with the kids starts next weekend and into this transfer window. The football has been really hard to watch a lot of the time. I’d be surprised if any of the kids are still playing at this level 3 years from now. But we have a lot to look forward to.

Thats the thing...none of these "kids" will be playing at this level in three years, I think anyone who is being honest with themselves can see they are not good and won't be...yet the spin from Manning and Bradley is its a "rebuild"...if these kids won't be here, what is the purpose of playing them and losing? Why delay the inevitable and not get players right now and then have to "rebuild" even more? This is a huge market team, missing the playoffs again and again can't be acceptable.

I just can imagine how frustrated Poz and Jimenez are with what they are surrounded with. They have football IQ, the rest (maybe a bit from Os who is okay) is severely lacking.

The "kids" stuff is frustrating also. Its used as an excuse for the mediocrity out there. Not that they are comparable but in terms of who they play against, Real Madrid has "kids" and they won a CL with them...for Camavinga is 19, Vini Jr 21, etc...either you are good enough or you aren't. Nelson/Akinola/Petrassio/Kerr/Thompson, etc are not quality. And no matter how much they are played, they won't be good enough ever. Our kids get dominated by reserve teams and barely can scrape by part timers on CPL teams....really hard to watch, especially after years of lockdown and looking forward to watching games live, now stuck with this drek.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 08:38 AM
I do agree with the sentiment of your statement but I also think this season’s reset was badly needed and long overdue. Hopefully all the pain of this season is the housecleaning and preparation that leads to a better identity, a driven team, and a rejuvenated academy.

I hope so.

OgtheDim
07-03-2022, 08:42 AM
Pozuelo is 14th in the league for key passes (despite being ham strung by playing for us) and behind just about every coherent attack we've had this season. The idea that he's not getting the ball to forwards, and so much so that they aren't making runs any more, is frankly insane. He is by far our best player this season.

He makes key passes - everything goes through him so of course he does



Every time he gets the ball, he slows down play by taking at least two touches.

He was not doing this when the approach was to get the ball out wide for crosses or to use speed of approach into the box. He was not doing this in Belgium either.



BB's main tactic is to get the ball into the zones in front of the box & move in from there. When LAFC was at their best, they were doing this with pace of approach (think Kaye) & quick ball movements.

POZ....he's not doing quick ball movement. He gets the ball, he takes a second touch, he attracts players (because opposing teams know he will attempt a dribble but won't pass right away). Same thing being done by Nelson but less effectively.

Think the history of Marky Delgado. When at his best, he was one touch & move it on. Vasquez the same. Osorio, the same.


Its what MightyDM says


... if your AM doesn’t see the run and move the ball first touch, you do get fed up and it’s hard to make them - not just mentally, but when do you move if you don’t know when the ball will be released. My take is Poz was trying to do too much and in so doing really creates issues for the team. Lots of blame to go around though. None of the young players except Ralph Priso and maybe Kerr were at it tonight. And I agree with JLoome. If you are going to beat a defensive shell, you need someone direct - Shaff.

Webdogg
07-03-2022, 08:51 AM
The only thing I’m wondering is who are all these posters and where have you been? Not good timing for your posts to fit in after MTL game and then a hardworking game against Columbus? Had to wait until they totally crapped the bed?

OgtheDim
07-03-2022, 08:55 AM
I love seeing the young players grow. It’s a joy this season and worth the price of my four tickets + a beer. (I bike to the games; easy and free). Yesterday my take was that they were never at it - unlike the Columbus and Montréal games where they started on the front foot and took the game to the other team. The younger players in particular looked mentally tired And that makes sense; mental strength is part of the learning process too. As for the debate: Poz was trying to do too much - you cannot really make runs off somekne playing that way, because there is no way to anticipate. Hard to blame him on the night though. And it’s worth listening the BB’s press conference afterwards, particularly what they were trying to do at the half ie play wide. Speaks to JLoome’s point that we needed Shaff. Not sure Kerr is a effective wide player at this point.

Poz made a great pass to Kerr at one point & Kerr took a touch before the tried a shot. Poz yelled at him for not taking the shot first time - rightly so & actually nice to see somebody not complaining "why didn't you pass it to me".

Some of the youth, like Kerr, look intimidated by the speed of play. Shaff & Priso & Nelson & JMR do not.

BTW, JMR is a BIG guy getting bigger every few weeks - he's going to make mistakes & is not an Alphonso Davies level. But, he has the


BB has made it clear in his statements that young talent was there because the turnover of experienced talent was going to take time - a lot of that young talent has seen its day & shown that it is not a solution long term.

I don't expect Petrasso or Nelson to start next week. We need a right sided solution as well. Thompson has been a target of attacks all season long.

TMAN80
07-03-2022, 09:03 AM
He makes key passes - everything goes through him so of course he does



Every time he gets the ball, he slows down play by taking at least two touches.

He was not doing this when the approach was to get the ball out wide for crosses or to use speed of approach into the box. He was not doing this in Belgium either.



BB's main tactic is to get the ball into the zones in front of the box & move in from there. When LAFC was at their best, they were doing this with pace of approach (think Kaye) & quick ball movements.

POZ....he's not doing quick ball movement. He gets the ball, he takes a second touch, he attracts players (because opposing teams know he will attempt a dribble but won't pass right away). Same thing being done by Nelson but less effectively.

Think the history of Marky Delgado. When at his best, he was one touch & move it on. Vasquez the same. Osorio, the same.


Its what MightyDM says

So you’re arguing that he should make less key passes(which of course gets wasted by the recipient) because he’s holding on to the ball too long, and instead get the ball up quickly on first touch, only to have it recycled right back to him because none of either Shaff, Kerr, Priso, Nelson,Petrasso, Kosi, Akinola will be able to do anything with it, as we’ve seen time and again.
I think you have to look at Poz himself, and wonder why he’s making those extra touches? He has ZERO confidence in anyone around him.
LI will help this, and you know what? I bet he’s not making two touches to get the ball to him.
So, to my original issue with the statement of Poz being the problem(which is completely crazy of course), he plays this way because he has no choice, based on what is around him. He can pass through balls very quickly as we’ve seen. He can make a couple quick touches to get space, and make a perfect through ball, but nobody would be there.

OgtheDim
07-03-2022, 09:13 AM
Bradley's answer to a question about Poz is very interesting - starting at minute 5.

"We do everything to give him the chance to be the chance creator"

******

BB's pressers & discussion of tactics is very instructive.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 09:28 AM
So you’re arguing that he should make less key passes(which of course gets wasted by the recipient) because he’s holding on to the ball too long, and instead get the ball up quickly on first touch, only to have it recycled right back to him because none of either Shaff, Kerr, Priso, Nelson,Petrasso, Kosi, Akinola will be able to do anything with it, as we’ve seen time and again.
I think you have to look at Poz himself, and wonder why he’s making those extra touches? He has ZERO confidence in anyone around him.
LI will help this, and you know what? I bet he’s not making two touches to get the ball to him.
So, to my original issue with the statement of Poz being the problem(which is completely crazy of course), he plays this way because he has no choice, based on what is around him. He can pass through balls very quickly as we’ve seen. He can make a couple quick touches to get space, and make a perfect through ball, but nobody would be there.


lol

So basically Poz is surrounded by crap and is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

He literally put the ball on a silver platter to Kerr, Priso, Thompson a number of times after drawing and skinning multiple defenders and they each time did nothing with it while being wide open. Same thing happened with his passes to Shaffleburg the other night. These "kids" are not capable. Best thing for Poz to do is just do it alone and look for Jimenez like his assist the other night, no one else has any ability to work with Poz.

One criticizm of Poz last night. He created the free kick at the top of the box beating three guys and should not have let Salcedo take that meak and useless free kick that floated into the keeper's arms. Only Poz, Jimenez or now Insigne should be anywhere near set pieces. No one else has the skill of football IQ to take them. Reminds me of last year when bradley was alwas sniffing around set pieces and he has the touch of a lumberjack...lol.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 09:31 AM
Bradley's answer to a question about Poz is very interesting - starting at minute 5.

"We do everything to give him the chance to be the chance creator"

******

BB's pressers & discussion of tactics is very instructive.


Bradley has no tactics, come on man. You are defending the infensible.

After all he is the brilliant architect of having no real outside full backs.lol And as a result have Petrasso, Shaffelburgh and Thompson get torched over and over.

Poz can't work miracles here...he is surrounded by absolute crap. And then is pushed out wide where even less chance to create.

JoesphNdo
07-03-2022, 09:43 AM
He makes key passes - everything goes through him so of course he does



Every time he gets the ball, he slows down play by taking at least two touches.

He was not doing this when the approach was to get the ball out wide for crosses or to use speed of approach into the box. He was not doing this in Belgium either.



BB's main tactic is to get the ball into the zones in front of the box & move in from there. When LAFC was at their best, they were doing this with pace of approach (think Kaye) & quick ball movements.

POZ....he's not doing quick ball movement. He gets the ball, he takes a second touch, he attracts players (because opposing teams know he will attempt a dribble but won't pass right away). Same thing being done by Nelson but less effectively.

Think the history of Marky Delgado. When at his best, he was one touch & move it on. Vasquez the same. Osorio, the same.


Its what MightyDM says

Making key passes means setting up players for a shot. None of what you're saying at all holds up to the fact that almost every shot we've had this season has been from pozuelo. If his slowing down of the play was so ineffective, he wouldn't be creating chances at a rate beaten by only a handful of players in the league despite having a bad team with not many threats to pass too who don't have the balance of play more often than not. What your saying is just factually incorrect, it can't be true at the rate of chances he creates. Whatever he's doing is statistically effective. He's a play maker who makes plays, sets up chances, assists and scores goals

MightyDM
07-03-2022, 09:48 AM
Just a reminder that these young players are mostly 19 and 20. It’s a good thing they are getting a chance - just too bad it’s so many of the them at once - if it was 2 or 3 of them only ie Ayo Nelson JMR the dynamic would be different.

Jury is out on Bob
Bradley but unlike Armas he deserves time because he has proved himself elsewhere, and often.

I was furious with Armas and Manning. It was a shit show. This year, you can see the progress and what they are trying to do. It’s not a vitriol kind of year for me. It’s a hopeful one.

Ultra & Proud
07-03-2022, 09:58 AM
Just a reminder that these young players are mostly 19 and 20. It’s a good thing they are getting a chance - just too bad it’s so many of the them at once - if it was 2 or 3 of them only ie Ayo Nelson JMR the dynamic would be different.

Jury is out on Bib Bradley but unlike Armas he deserves time because he has proved himself elsewhere, and often.

I was furious with Armas and Manning. It was a shit show. This year, you can see the progress and what they are trying to do. It’s not a vitriol kind of year for me. It’s a hopeful one.

This is pretty much it right here. You can see what the tactical plan is but this many kids in all at once makes it hard to implement. As OG said earlier, if you watch all of Bob's post match pressers he pretty much breaks it down to what we're saying on here. There's a plan but some of the youth can't think or react fast enough or make poor decisions when the pressure and pace is high. On the plus side they're learning and getting experience.

Yuushalinsky
07-03-2022, 10:14 AM
Why are some of you here if you can't handle the downs of being a soccer fan? Serious question.

Section 223
07-03-2022, 10:24 AM
Bradley has no tactics, come on man. You are defending the infensible.

After all he is the brilliant architect of having no real outside full backs.lol And as a result have Petrasso, Shaffelburgh and Thompson get torched over and over.

Poz can't work miracles here...he is surrounded by absolute crap. And then is pushed out wide where even less chance to create.
Hala all your comments are spot on , absolute gold keep up your critique of this team, the kids , Bill Manning, Bob Bradley, Bradley Jr all poor excuses for Soccer players, coaches, executives. How you describe the state of what’s happening with this club is closest to reality then anything other posters are saying. Keep up it up Brother

ag futbol
07-03-2022, 10:24 AM
Just a reminder that these young players are mostly 19 and 20. It’s a good thing they are getting a chance - just too bad it’s so many of the them at once - if it was 2 or 3 of them only ie Ayo Nelson JMR the dynamic would be different.

Jury is out on Bib Bradley but unlike Armas he deserves time because he has proved himself elsewhere, and often.

I was furious with Armas and Manning. It was a shit show. This year, you can see the progress and what they are trying to do. It’s not a vitriol kind of year for me. It’s a hopeful one.
I agree. I am just ready at this stage to have a few more experienced players in the lineup and a lower proportion of youth.

I get it. We had a roster that was past it’s “best before” date and a bad team atmosphere last year. Things had to change and it couldn’t all happen in one window. So subtractions were more than additions at the start. We used the gap as a unique opportunity to give our youth players minutes.

But now that we’ve gone through this window and to be blunt none of the youth players look ready to start (although sub appearances are fine) I think it’s time to continue with signings. LI has been done for months. Criscito rumoured for months. I expect at least a couple more players this window. If that doesn’t happen, the math here starts to look like it does it the Curtis days when we get blindsided by things and are always on the back foot. Osorio coming out of contract, Poz coming out of contract. Roster work has to pick up here or we’re going to be perpetually handicapped.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 10:29 AM
Why are some of you here if you can't handle the downs of being a soccer fan? Serious question.

I can "handle" it...if you are talking about me? I paid to watch that crap and want to vent. I expect a lot more. If the mods think my posts aren't allowed, they'll let me know. Not sure why you are trying to "cancel" me. If you don't like what you read, no problem but I will post as I like until/unless the Mods say otherwise. We all want the best for this team after all and it is a place to voice one's opinions.

The great thing about this board is all opinions are allowed. Its not an echo chamber like the handful of posters left at wtr where you have to tow the party line or else....

Cheers.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 10:30 AM
Hala all your comments are spot on , absolute gold keep up your critique of this team, the kids , Bill Manning, Bob Bradley, Bradley Jr all poor excuses for Soccer players, coaches, executives. How you describe the state of what’s happening with this club is closest to reality then anything other posters are saying. Keep up it up Brother

Thanks brother. Love your posts as well. Cheers.

jloome
07-03-2022, 10:54 AM
Why are some of you here if you can't handle the downs of being a soccer fan? Serious question.

Just block them, dude. Trolls be trolls

If all you ever offer is crticism, you don't take part in the community except after a loss or to call for people to be fired, you're a troll. This is a fan community. If you aren't taking part in both sides and seeing the team with any nuance... you're a troll.

These people already know how annoyign they are. They showed up regular on WTR, they show up on Reddit. They are incapable of having a nuanced conversation. They will simply see any comment that doesn't reflect utter negativity as stupid or an attack, because they have no interest in what others here have to say.

They're just here to vent. Which, of course, no other human being wants to listen to as a continual stream. It's miserable.

But they don't care that they're ruining the conversation for numerous others, that some of the best posters on this board -- Ensco, anyone, Coach, Jack? -- no longer come here because they're sick of dealing with juvenile whiners without anything positive to say.

They're not hear to engage you, they're here to vent. So don't give them the satisfaction. Block them and make sure you login when you visit. Eventually, when no one takes part on the whine fest, they'll take it somewhere else.

TMAN80
07-03-2022, 10:55 AM
Bradley's answer to a question about Poz is very interesting - starting at minute 5.

"We do everything to give him the chance to be the chance creator"

******

BB's pressers & discussion of tactics is very instructive.

It’s very hard to be the creator of the chance as Poz always is, and then be expected to somehow also finish that chance you’ve created for your supporting players. He can’t put a pass on a platter and suddenly turn into that receiving player and finish the play. Instead, the chance goes wasted over and over.

I’m in full agreement with a few of the recent comments about too many kids at once. This is so obviously true, it’s painful. And a direct result of this is Poz being isolated without any support and doing too much. He’s not the problem, his play is reflective of the true problem, which is a severe shortage of any sort of quality around him(don’t care if they are kids or not - that’s not what I’m arguing).

I’m sorry, but put that argument to bed about Poz being the problem.

jloome
07-03-2022, 11:05 AM
Both this game and NY, it felt like we were set up wrong, players too spaced from each other all game, no one playing as unit.

It's no one player, it's that we usually have three or four who just aren't ready for this level. Nelson helps up with speed, but his decision making is terrible. Kerr is inconsistent, offensively talented but unsure of his role or where to be; Kosi is not a fullback and probably never will be. He's a primarily offensive player that we're trying to turn defensive.

Luca is not athletic or strong enough, he's basically rookie Oso just in a different positon, a good two years and twenty pounds of muscle from being effective all the time.

We can't play in a 'two' upfront if we're serving up all our danger balls from the top corners and never wide, as other teams will just set up in a low block.

Wide play forces defenders out of position to cover the width of the field. We have none. We work it inside EVERY time. We go to the near danger zones at the top corners of the box EVERY time. It's entirely predictable and easy to shut down by playing a counter against us with wide speed.

So it's not just the kids; it's the kids playing in a system that so far does not adjust or adapt to opponents. Perhaps that's because BB doesn't feel they can handle more than one tactical look right now, but I suspect it's more BB attempt to force a type of play that sometimes is not sufficient in variety to the task.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 11:41 AM
It’s very hard to be the creator of the chance as Poz always is, and then be expected to somehow also finish that chance you’ve created for your supporting players. He can’t put a pass on a platter and suddenly turn into that receiving player and finish the play. Instead, the chance goes wasted over and over.

I’m in full agreement with a few of the recent comments about too many kids at once. This is so obviously true, it’s painful. And a direct result of this is Poz being isolated without any support and doing too much. He’s not the problem, his play is reflective of the true problem, which is a severe shortage of any sort of quality around him(don’t care if they are kids or not - that’s not what I’m arguing).

I’m sorry, but put that argument to bed about Poz being the problem.

Well said. Poz and Jesus are all we've got. They can't work miracles. Hopefully with Insigne they can at least work as a trio and do their thing. No point dishing off the ball to the kids who can't do anything with it other than lose it or pass it back. We need to attack and hopefully outscore teams when LI comes...as defensively all our problems will remain. But at least we will be on the front foot and in LI and Poz will always have the best players on the field no matter who we play other than Bale in LA if he bothers to care.

OgtheDim
07-03-2022, 12:10 PM
...

We can't play in a 'two' upfront if we're serving up all our danger balls from the top corners and never wide, as other teams will just set up in a low block.

Wide play forces defenders out of position to cover the width of the field. We have none. We work it inside EVERY time. We go to the near danger zones at the top corners of the box EVERY time. It's entirely predictable and easy to shut down by playing a counter against us with wide speed.

So it's not just the kids; it's the kids playing in a system that so far does not adjust or adapt to opponents. Perhaps that's because BB doesn't feel they can handle more than one tactical look right now, but I suspect it's more BB attempt to force a type of play that sometimes is not sufficient in variety to the task.

This is my concern.

The system BB is playing is the one he used at LAFC. It also works really well with Insigne's stregths (and Hoillet's if that were to happen) so we will see how this goes in the next few weeks. Not sure how it works with the current strikers we have though.

LAFC had a bit of pace on the wide with Blessing in order to keep defences honest.


BB's presser indicated that the ball movement was way slower then he would prefer. I still maintain a lot of that is on how Poz has begun to play the last few years. Others on here disagree but...that's why we talk.

MightyDM
07-03-2022, 12:31 PM
Making key passes means setting up players for a shot. None of what you're saying at all holds up to the fact that almost every shot we've had this season has been from pozuelo. If his slowing down of the play was so ineffective, he wouldn't be creating chances at a rate beaten by only a handful of players in the league despite having a bad team with not many threats to pass too who don't have the balance of play more often than not. What your saying is just factually incorrect, it can't be true at the rate of chances he creates. Whatever he's doing is statistically effective. He's a play maker who makes plays, sets up chances, assists and scores goals

I have to disagree. Both things can be - and are - true. Poz can create the most chances (because he is a good player and is playing in a position that offers him that opportunity) and be slowing things down by keeping possession too long (as several of us think he is). One touch soccer is what the team needs; Poz is often taking 5 or more.

Free-kick
07-03-2022, 12:33 PM
I have had a similar argument on other forums. The best way to help and support these kids and by extention Canadian soccer is not to throw these kids out there amongst seasoned pros and showering them with false praise all the while blaming the seasoned players or foreigners for the loses. Seasoned players, who have proven themselves already through awards and acclaim or in some case international experience, are being singled out when we lose but with some ppl, these kids can do no wrong and have to protected from criticism and any kind of fair assessement of their abilities and potential.

I have been to so many international matches involving Canada that I have lost count, and I have also travelled many times to see Canada play. I would never have bought season seats on the morning of the first ever sale for TFC Season seats way back in 2006 or 2007 if i didnt think that there wouldnt be benefits to our international fortunes in having a team in MLS. But this experiment of trotting out a bunch of canadian teenagers (or near teenagers) has been a failure. Some of these guys may never be established pros. One, JMR, might be a a true stud. One or two others might eventually become a decent MLS player, and rest probbaly wont make it and thats the law averages. Collectively, Right now, dont see how any of them are helping, in fact, they are hindering the team and the success of the sport locally. I didnt buy season seats to watch an experiment either. Or to watch in action an academy for the national team. This experiment is the main reason we are losing, not because of the veterans.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 12:37 PM
I have to disagree. Both things can be - and are - true. Poz can create the most chances (because he is a good player and is playing in a position that offers him that opportunity) and be slowing things down by keeping possession too long (as several of us think he is). One touch soccer is what the team needs; Poz is often taking 5 or more.

He has no choice, others cant play at his level and with his vision other than Jesus and you see how they link up together...Poz the assist the other night, Jesus the pass that Poz almost scored on.

Poz tries his best to set guys up..did you see the move to set Priso free who completely wasted it over the net? The multiple passes to Thompson who hesitates and then wastes it...to Kerr as well?

And on the other side, anything to Nelson ends up lost or passed back...

Or there are no options available so has no choice...Akinola literally was invisible two games ina row...offers no outlet, no running into space etc.

Not sure why Poz is hated here so much, he is the LEAST of the problems here. Had he not played the last two games we'd literally have no chances whatsoever...he creates everything despite being double and even at times triple teamed.

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 12:53 PM
I have had a similar argument on other forums. The best way to help and support these kids and by extention Canadian soccer is not to throw these kids out there amongst seasoned pros and showering them with false praise all the while blaming the seasoned players or foreigners for the loses. Seasoned players, who have proven themselves already through awards and acclaim or in some case international experience, are being singled out when we lose but with some ppl, these kids can do no wrong and have to protected from criticism and any kind of fair assessement of their abilities and potential.

I have been to so many international matches involving Canada that I have lost count, and I have also travelled many times to see Canada play. I would never have bought season seats on the morning of the first ever sale for TFC Season seats way back in 2006 or 2007 if i didnt think that there wouldnt be benefits to our international fortunes in having a team in MLS. But this experiment of trotting out a bunch of canadian teenagers (or near teenagers) has been a failure. Some of these guys may never be established pros. One, JMR, might be a a true stud. One or two others might eventually become a decent MLS player, and rest probbaly wont make it and thats the law averages. Collectively, Right now, dont see how any of them are helping, in fact, they are hindering the team and the success of the sport locally. I didnt buy season seats to watch an experiment either. Or to watch in action an academy for the national team. This experiment is the main reason we are losing, not because of the veterans.


Spot on. Very well said, amazing post.

And the part of giving false praise to the in way over their heads Canadian kids...while blaming the foreigners....its why our best player Poz (the "foreigner") is being singled out for some bizarre reason.

JMR might be the only one with any future but he is not Alphonso Davies as some want to compare him too....not sure what all the hype around him is, but I guess we'll see as he basically just started. I haven't seen one thing he can do going forward, its all safe back passes with no end product. He has speed but no defensive awareness but I get they are trying to force him into a wing back role....but the others, mark my words, not one of these CDN kids will be here in 3 years or have a future on quality team in Europe. They simply aren't good enough.

If that's being a "troll" as my good friend jlome dismisses me as, so be it. I am a just realist that knows football, and just want to see us win. Not later, now. We already sat through last year's debacle....time is of the essence. (And so is my pocket book, I can/will only support so much of this as my patience is wearing thin...).

Bushmancan
07-03-2022, 12:56 PM
I have had a similar argument on other forums. The best way to help and support these kids and by extention Canadian soccer is not to throw these kids out there amongst seasoned pros and showering them with false praise all the while blaming the seasoned players or foreigners for the loses. Seasoned players, who have proven themselves already through awards and acclaim or in some case international experience, are being singled out when we lose but with some ppl, these kids can do no wrong and have to protected from criticism and any kind of fair assessement of their abilities and potential.

I have been to so many international matches involving Canada that I have lost count, and I have also travelled many times to see Canada play. I would never have bought season seats on the morning of the first ever sale for TFC Season seats way back in 2006 or 2007 if i didnt think that there wouldnt be benefits to our international fortunes in having a team in MLS. But this experiment of trotting out a bunch of canadian teenagers (or near teenagers) has been a failure. Some of these guys may never be established pros. One, JMR, might be a a true stud. One or two others might eventually become a decent MLS player, and rest probbaly wont make it and thats the law averages. Collectively, Right now, dont see how any of them are helping, in fact, they are hindering the team and the success of the sport locally. I didnt buy season seats to watch an experiment either. Or to watch in action an academy for the national team. This experiment is the main reason we are losing, not because of the veterans.

I am in a similar boat as you but i will temper it a bit. It was clear how much damage Curtis and then Curtis and Armas did. You knew there had to be a reset. Now did BB strip the cupboards too bare with the thought Insigne is on his way… probably. They have also rushed/set unrealistic expectation on a couple of players, who may never recover…. I hope not but Ayo is looking eerily similar to JHAMs. I do think some need to be developed and regain their confidence.

With that said, I am having a blast being back in the stands and i didn’t realize how much i missed it. To be candid, the games are painful sometimes, but i put myself in a 2014 mentality. But the last 2 have been brutal, the Columbus game i blamed the soccer gods by my goodness last night wasn’t even good. My only expectation was CCL qualification (fingers crossed) and start playing competitively in the 2nd half, playoffs would be a complete bonus.

Failure on any of this, in my opinion should be Manning’s last influence on this club. I will be happy for his success but right now he does not exude confidence.

MikeForbes
07-03-2022, 01:54 PM
Missed the game, but the result against what was a very depleted Sounders side at home is not exactly reassuring.

jloome
07-03-2022, 02:12 PM
Poz, Oso and Jimenez are the only players always at starting quality,
although Bradley comes close.

There are times when Poz tries too hard to carry the team but they usually coincide with the other team playing a low block.

Our transitions are so delayed and poorly executed a USL team could defend us game in and out with a low block.

If we can't hold possession while transitioning quickly from defense to attack then we end up trying to attack
Eight or nine men behind the ball constantly.

the reason we occasionally look good is that a high press is the sole way for us to gain an overload or imbalance in the other team's end. So when a team builds poorly
or slowly
from the back or can't outlet easy it becomes a skill v skill game and we can compete.

as soon as it's about whole team movement, we're fucked.

JoesphNdo
07-03-2022, 02:29 PM
I have to disagree. Both things can be - and are - true. Poz can create the most chances (because he is a good player and is playing in a position that offers him that opportunity) and be slowing things down by keeping possession too long (as several of us think he is). One touch soccer is what the team needs; Poz is often taking 5 or more.

Both things can't be true. He's either effective or he's not, too many touches is only a problem if it causes poor output. He's producing at an absurdly high level for the awful team he's in, that's tangible, the rest is not. If he was keeping possession too long he'd be failing to create chances, there is no keeping possession too long that results in a pass that creates a chance. That's like saying a striker is scoring goals but shooting the ball too hard to do so. His job is to create chances and score goals and he's doing so with numbers not many in the league could do in a team like this.

Quick passes or multi touches aren't an end, they're a means to an end. If the end is there criticising the means doesn't make any sense to me. Of 11 starters who are a problem this season Pozuelo is number 11 and by a distance

Hala Hrvatska
07-03-2022, 04:28 PM
Both things can't be true. He's either effective or he's not, too many touches is only a problem if it causes poor output. He's producing at an absurdly high level for the awful team he's in, that's tangible, the rest is not. If he was keeping possession too long he'd be failing to create chances, there is no keeping possession too long that results in a pass that creates a chance. That's like saying a striker is scoring goals but shooting the ball too hard to do so. His job is to create chances and score goals and he's doing so with numbers not many in the league could do in a team like this.

Quick passes or multi touches aren't an end, they're a means to an end. If the end is there criticising the means doesn't make any sense to me. Of 11 starters who are a problem this season Pozuelo is number 11 and by a distance

Fully agreed.

Oldtimer
07-03-2022, 05:14 PM
It will be interesting to see how things look after the new players come in and gell for a while. To be honest I didn't expect much out of the first part of the season given the clean out that was needed.

I never saw Bob Bradley as much of a tactical coach at all, more a manager who relies on training and selection to build a team over time. So I'm not surprised by him being out maneuvered tactically or not being able to work with the players he has to suddenly turn the team around. That's not who he is.

Reading some of the comments, I gather quite a few people here only watch TFC matches and weren't familiar with him. Bradley is not my cup of tea - I prefer strongly tactically oriented coaches. He's known and has a long track record, though, for his ability to build consistent teams over time. So I didn't make a big deal when he was hired.

I'm also surprised by some people treating Bradley like he's another Chris Armas, an inexperienced coach just there because he's a buddy of the President. You may know soccer quite a lot in other places like Europe or South America, but you need to spend more time to know MLS and not just TFC a bit better. Bradley is one of the most respected American coaches in MLS. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of MLS experts like Ives Galarcep (you know who Ives is, don't you?). Again, Bradley is not my cup of tea, but if by mid next year he's built a competitive team I'll live with him as manager.

DavemTFC
07-03-2022, 09:27 PM
Bad performance all around (Seattle very good defensively to be fair). Poz by far our best player, a lot of good work undone by a poor final ball by the player he passed to. I think there's some merit to the critique that he moves the ball too slowly, but I'll wait until reinforcements arrive before judging him too harshly on that.

Ayo needs a game off. At least hold him to a sub appearance next weekend.

Bushmancan
07-04-2022, 08:46 AM
Interesting assessment of the game from Seattle, some interesting observations about TFC….
(https://apple.news/A6TvzOSjRS2qnb87fxfYM4w)https://www.sounderatheart.com/2022/7/3/23193455/five-thoughts-on-sounders-road-win-at-toronto

Schmetzer’s gambit pays offOne look at the lineup before the match, and fans could have been forgiven for thinking this was something of a throwaway match. That thinking discounts three important points:
1) Toronto is not very good.
2) Schmetzer has expectations of his players to perform no matter the lineup.
3) The Sounders have spent years cultivating their depth to account for the rigors of an MLS season.

MightyDM
07-04-2022, 08:58 AM
from that article, interesting comparison to us because they had enough veteran presence they could fit in the youths - we are totally reliant on them To be sure, this wasn’t first-choice lineup, and Schmetzer didn’t attempt to sell it as such. But there was plenty of experience in key positions, and certainly enough quality to put up a good performance. More than that, the opportunities for players to earn more playing time on the pitch are limited on a squad as deep as the Sounders, and thus when a chance presents itself, you’d best grab it and run because you don’t know when the next one will. And the reserves more than did that Saturday, which got the Sounders the three points they lost on Wednesday, on top of getting significant rest for key players ahead of next weekend’s big rivalry match. A mini-jackpot indeed

stevep
07-04-2022, 08:59 AM
It's not over just yet because of MLS parity, having said that when Insigne joins we need a good run of games.

We also need those incoming transfers Manning keeps alluding too, nobody wants to continue watching Poz(and Insigne) play with a bunch of kids that have no clue how to play.

much to my amazement BET365 agrees with you

MightyDM
07-04-2022, 09:04 AM
Both things can't be true. He's either effective or he's not, too many touches is only a problem if it causes poor output. He's producing at an absurdly high level for the awful team he's in, that's tangible, the rest is not. If he was keeping possession too long he'd be failing to create chances, there is no keeping possession too long that results in a pass that creates a chance. That's like saying a striker is scoring goals but shooting the ball too hard to do so. His job is to create chances and score goals and he's doing so with numbers not many in the league could do in a team like this.

Quick passes or multi touches aren't an end, they're a means to an end. If the end is there criticising the means doesn't make any sense to me. Of 11 starters who are a problem this season Pozuelo is number 11 and by a distance

Let's look at it this way - if Poz was mostly moving the ball quickly, instead of taking the extra touches he did in this game, would he have created more chances for TFC? I would argue yes. A player of his calibre playing in the role he was on Saturday should be expected to create a certain number of chances and he did. Don't get me wrong - he is a good player who is beginning to round into form, who might get back to the level he displayed in his first year with us, but he has looked slow and unfit for two seasons now. i have wondered if he was playing hurt. If he =can raise his play to the level we all hope he can, he could be tremendous attacking with Insigne, Oso and Jesus. But a clear eyed appraisal is that he isn't there, yet. Its sort of the inverse of MB - he makes some visible mistakes so people think he is a disaster and don't notice all the excellent things he does; Poz makes some excellent plays so people dont notice all the mistakes he makes.

Ultra & Proud
07-04-2022, 09:47 AM
Let's look at it this way - if Poz was mostly moving the ball quickly, instead of taking the extra touches he did in this game, would he have created more chances for TFC? I would argue yes. A player of his calibre playing in the role he was on Saturday should be expected to create a certain number of chances and he did. Don't get me wrong - he is a good player who is beginning to round into form, who might get back to the level he displayed in his first year with us, but he has looked slow and unfit for two seasons now. i have wondered if he was playing hurt. If he =can raise his play to the level we all hope he can, he could be tremendous attacking with Insigne, Oso and Jesus. But a clear eyed appraisal is that he isn't there, yet. Its sort of the inverse of MB - he makes some visible mistakes so people think he is a disaster and don't notice all the excellent things he does; Poz makes some excellent plays so people dont notice all the mistakes he makes.
Good assessment.

Kamp Berg
07-04-2022, 09:53 AM
Let's look at it this way - if Poz was mostly moving the ball quickly, instead of taking the extra touches he did in this game, would he have created more chances for TFC? I would argue yes. A player of his calibre playing in the role he was on Saturday should be expected to create a certain number of chances and he did. Don't get me wrong - he is a good player who is beginning to round into form, who might get back to the level he displayed in his first year with us, but he has looked slow and unfit for two seasons now. i have wondered if he was playing hurt. If he =can raise his play to the level we all hope he can, he could be tremendous attacking with Insigne, Oso and Jesus. But a clear eyed appraisal is that he isn't there, yet. Its sort of the inverse of MB - he makes some visible mistakes so people think he is a disaster and don't notice all the excellent things he does; Poz makes some excellent plays so people dont notice all the mistakes he makes.

He was hurt. Poz and Bob talked about him having his first pain free game in a long time, 4 or 5 games ago.

JoesphNdo
07-04-2022, 10:45 AM
Let's look at it this way - if Poz was mostly moving the ball quickly, instead of taking the extra touches he did in this game, would he have created more chances for TFC? I would argue yes. A player of his calibre playing in the role he was on Saturday should be expected to create a certain number of chances and he did. Don't get me wrong - he is a good player who is beginning to round into form, who might get back to the level he displayed in his first year with us, but he has looked slow and unfit for two seasons now. i have wondered if he was playing hurt. If he =can raise his play to the level we all hope he can, he could be tremendous attacking with Insigne, Oso and Jesus. But a clear eyed appraisal is that he isn't there, yet. Its sort of the inverse of MB - he makes some visible mistakes so people think he is a disaster and don't notice all the excellent things he does; Poz makes some excellent plays so people dont notice all the mistakes he makes.

I'm sorry but 'eye appraisal' is meaningless vs output. Output is measurable. His output, given the tools he has to work with, is frankly fantastic. That is statistically measurable and is undeniable.

This is the equivalent of a manager going to their sales team, picking out the person whose sold magnitudes higher than anyone else, whose selling at a national level despite selling a crap product and saying 'yeah but to my eye test you should be doing it like the others who do it way worse than you do'

There's no magic formula that says quick possession is better, or Xavi and Iniesta wouldn't have been two of the greatest play making, creative mid fielders of all time. Those two moved the ball so slowly, and took so many touches, would you be criticizing them if they played for Toronto FC? Did they pass the eye test?

Mr. Inbetween
07-04-2022, 12:49 PM
Also: https://twitter.com/total_tfc/status/1543556080889913344?s=21&t=N67KTlH70Sr6zs0oiCVLuw


It seems like Bradley is one of the only players that can be counted on for consistency this year. It’ll take a pretty big leap for one of the kids to displace him.

If Poz is the least of our worries, an assessment with which I do not disagree.
Then MBradley, for this year and for now, so far, with efforts like this is the 2nd least of them.

jloome
07-04-2022, 01:32 PM
If Poz is the least of our worries, an assessment with which I do not disagree.
Then MBradley, for this year and for now, so far, with efforts like this is the 2nd least of them.

Fourth. Oso has, when on the pitch, been every bit as effective as Pozuelo. Jimenez has eight goals on THIS team. Can you imagine what he might do with two wingers who are ready to play at this level supplying the box with continually decent service?]

I actually think MB has been better his season than the last two. He’s had a couple of games where his energy and pace have flagged badly by the 65th minute but for the most part he’s held his end up well.

His passing is not what it used to be, though. He’s really leaving his long efforts short this year, although his number eight-style shuttling, short link-up stuff has been really good, generally. His tackling has improved substantially although he’s still been slipped with embarrassing ease a couple of times (that Justin Meram goal being a prime example).

The disconcerting thing to me about our effort the other night is that the team we were playing against was almost as young as we were. But their 19 year olds came ready to compete. Ours looked like deer in headlights.

Mr. Inbetween
07-04-2022, 01:55 PM
^ Yes! Of course! Obviously and completely agree. My bad. Brain fart.

Edit... I don't think anyone here has really been questioning their performances though.

Bushmancan
07-04-2022, 02:05 PM
I actually think MB has been better his season than the last two. He’s had a couple of games where his energy and pace have flagged badly by the 65th minute but for the most part he’s held his end up well.

His passing is not what it used to be, though. He’s really leaving his long efforts short this year, although his number eight-style shuttling, short link-up stuff has been really good, generally. His tackling has improved substantially although he’s still been slipped with embarrassing ease a couple of times (that Justin Meram goal being a prime example).

Still a big MB fan, one glaring thing i did notice on Saturday night. Seattle's forwards were ruthless on tracking back on him and at least three times snuck up from behind and won the ball back. It didn't appear anyone was hollering to him, telling him he was under pressure.

The other reality we need to deal with is that this is a significantly different team than last year and we have not gelled with familiarity as a team. Lets face it, this is a rebuild and not saying we cannot go on a solid run, we just need to temper it a little.

Ultra & Proud
07-04-2022, 02:10 PM
Still a big MB fan, one glaring thing i did notice on Saturday night. Seattle's forwards were ruthless on tracking back on him and at least three times snuck up from behind and won the ball back. It didn't appear anyone was hollering to him, telling him he was under pressure.
This has been happening to Pozuelo, Bradley, and Osorio a lot recently and I think it's probably poor communication from the kids. They aren't yelling these instructions or warnings out to vets. Most of our young guys never seem to yell anything out including calling for the ball when wide open.

Kamp Berg
07-04-2022, 02:30 PM
This has been happening to Pozuelo, Bradley, and Osorio a lot recently and I think it's probably poor communication from the kids. They aren't yelling these instructions or warnings out to vets. Most of our young guys never seem to yell anything out including calling for the ball when wide open.

This is a really odd fact, people yell out stuff like this in rec leagues. For a professional to communicate seems like a minimum.

FootBallAZ
07-04-2022, 02:46 PM
Just block them, dude. Trolls be trolls

If all you ever offer is crticism, you don't take part in the community except after a loss or to call for people to be fired, you're a troll. This is a fan community. If you aren't taking part in both sides and seeing the team with any nuance... you're a troll.

These people already know how annoyign they are. They showed up regular on WTR, they show up on Reddit. They are incapable of having a nuanced conversation. They will simply see any comment that doesn't reflect utter negativity as stupid or an attack, because they have no interest in what others here have to say.

They're just here to vent. Which, of course, no other human being wants to listen to as a continual stream. It's miserable.

But they don't care that they're ruining the conversation for numerous others, that some of the best posters on this board -- Ensco, anyone, Coach, Jack? -- no longer come here because they're sick of dealing with juvenile whiners without anything positive to say.

They're not hear to engage you, they're here to vent. So don't give them the satisfaction. Block them and make sure you login when you visit. Eventually, when no one takes part on the whine fest, they'll take it somewhere else.



Hey Man,

I don't consider myself a troll and spent a lot on this club.

It is human nature for people to post more after a loss than a win.

I have rarely posted after a game as I like to sleep on it and reflect.

We as fans should be able to share our opinions without being attacked -or being told we are weak as a fan, or this a re-build year -when in-fact the rebuild started when Seba wasnt re-signed and has been unstable at best combined with the fact the manager leading us has made more lazy connections then doing due diligence beyond their rolodex- ali and armas are prime example, bradley SR could also be .


The fact Auro and Lawrence were both deemed useless when it seems like those two would make significant impact doesn't make sense at all - except Bradley SR didnt like their personality or attitude.

MightyDM
07-04-2022, 08:56 PM
Hey Man,

I don't consider myself a troll and spent a lot on this club.

It is human nature for people to post more after a loss than a win.

I have rarely posted after a game as I like to sleep on it and reflect.

We as fans should be able to share our opinions without being attacked -or being told we are weak as a fan, or this a re-build year -when in-fact the rebuild started when Seba wasnt re-signed and has been unstable at best combined with the fact the manager leading us has made more lazy connections then doing due diligence beyond their rolodex- ali and armas are prime example, bradley SR could also be .


The fact Auro and Lawrence were both deemed useless when it seems like those two would make significant impact doesn't make sense at all - except Bradley SR didnt like their personality or attitude.

i share JLoome’s disdain for those who only show up on the boards to trash the team - or certain players - after a loss. Particularly with the lack of understanding of football, the history of the club, or recent good performances that is often evident in these rants. Yes, we all have different ways of expressing our support for the club, but this behaviour isn’t expressing support. Plus it offers no insight on the team or the game.

MightyDM
07-04-2022, 09:01 PM
I'm sorry but 'eye appraisal' is meaningless vs output. Output is measurable. His output, given the tools he has to work with, is frankly fantastic. That is statistically measurable and is undeniable.

This is the equivalent of a manager going to their sales team, picking out the person whose sold magnitudes higher than anyone else, whose selling at a national level despite selling a crap product and saying 'yeah but to my eye test you should be doing it like the others who do it way worse than you do'

There's no magic formula that says quick possession is better, or Xavi and Iniesta wouldn't have been two of the greatest play making, creative mid fielders of all time. Those two moved the ball so slowly, and took so many touches, would you be criticizing them if they played for Toronto FC? Did they pass the eye test?

output? Zero goals zero assists v Seattle. And that’s his job. Good player, but not at his best, perhaps due to the effects of the long term injury mentioned above. My guess is he was trying too hard, so kept the ball far more than in the games where he creates and scores goals, often being dispossessed by Seattle because he ran into a cup de sac - but as a result we scored no goals. His entire job is to create and score goals, so if you want to go to output it was Zero. And therefore not good enough, at the moment, for a player with his talent and in his position.

OgtheDim
07-05-2022, 06:42 AM
I'm not in completely with Doyle's analysis (Insigne on the right?!?!) but this piece & then the accompanying video on the first goal is instructive.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/insigne-s-not-fixing-a-broken-toronto-austin-are-more-than-just-bonus-games-more

MightyDM
07-05-2022, 06:47 AM
I'm not in completely with Doyle's analysis (Insigne on the right?!?!) but this piece & then the accompanying video on the first goal is instructive.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/insigne-s-not-fixing-a-broken-toronto-austin-are-more-than-just-bonus-games-more

teally great find Og. Thanks for posting.

Ultra & Proud
07-05-2022, 09:17 AM
He has no choice, others cant play at his level and with his vision other than Jesus and you see how they link up together...Poz the assist the other night, Jesus the pass that Poz almost scored on.

Poz tries his best to set guys up..did you see the move to set Priso free who completely wasted it over the net? The multiple passes to Thompson who hesitates and then wastes it...to Kerr as well?

Soteldo played last year with worse attacking options than Poz is this year plus dealt with worse managers/tactics + chaos yet he managed to rack up a decent amount of assists and a few goals while not giving a shit about the team at all.

At this point in the season it would be very hard to say Poz 1st half of 2022 has been more effective than Soteldo 2021 and we all know how fondly Soteldo is remembered.

jloome
07-05-2022, 09:56 AM
Soteldo played last year with worse attacking options than Poz is this year plus dealt with worse managers/tactics + chaos yet he managed to rack up a decent amount of assists and a few goals while not giving a shit about the team at all.

At this point in the season it would be very hard to say Poz 1st half of 2022 has been more effective than Soteldo 2021 and we all know how fondly Soteldo is remembered.

Poz has four goals and five assists already on an awful team.

Eight and 10 on this team over a season is substantially better than three goals and six assists we got from Soteldo, not to mention the distractions.

JoesphNdo
07-05-2022, 12:24 PM
output? Zero goals zero assists v Seattle. And that’s his job. Good player, but not at his best, perhaps due to the effects of the long term injury mentioned above. My guess is he was trying too hard, so kept the ball far more than in the games where he creates and scores goals, often being dispossessed by Seattle because he ran into a cup de sac - but as a result we scored no goals. His entire job is to create and score goals, so if you want to go to output it was Zero. And therefore not good enough, at the moment, for a player with his talent and in his position.

If your output is zero any game you have no goals or assists than theres games Lionel Messi has been absolutely shit according to you

Here's the highlights of our previous match -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJDB0HNKFXw

Notice literally every shot we take in this, and I mean literally every single shot we take bar one that was offsite, was either taken by Pozuelo or he was the one to create it. If he's our problem, we must be the best team in the league. Pointing out a single match and saying he didn't score or assist in this one match is an absurd way to judge anyones output and I cannot believe it's an argument you'd make in good faith.

Hala Hrvatska
07-06-2022, 06:43 AM
Hey Man,

I don't consider myself a troll and spent a lot on this club.

It is human nature for people to post more after a loss than a win.

I have rarely posted after a game as I like to sleep on it and reflect.

We as fans should be able to share our opinions without being attacked -or being told we are weak as a fan, or this a re-build year -when in-fact the rebuild started when Seba wasnt re-signed and has been unstable at best combined with the fact the manager leading us has made more lazy connections then doing due diligence beyond their rolodex- ali and armas are prime example, bradley SR could also be .


The fact Auro and Lawrence were both deemed useless when it seems like those two would make significant impact doesn't make sense at all - except Bradley SR didnt like their personality or attitude.

Well said bro!

Hala Hrvatska
07-06-2022, 06:43 AM
If your output is zero any game you have no goals or assists than theres games Lionel Messi has been absolutely shit according to you

Here's the highlights of our previous match -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJDB0HNKFXw

Notice literally every shot we take in this, and I mean literally every single shot we take bar one that was offsite, was either taken by Pozuelo or he was the one to create it. If he's our problem, we must be the best team in the league. Pointing out a single match and saying he didn't score or assist in this one match is an absurd way to judge anyones output and I cannot believe it's an argument you'd make in good faith.

Bingo, well said.

Hala Hrvatska
07-06-2022, 06:47 AM
i share JLoome’s disdain for those who only show up on the boards to trash the team - or certain players - after a loss. Particularly with the lack of understanding of football, the history of the club, or recent good performances that is often evident in these rants. Yes, we all have different ways of expressing our support for the club, but this behaviour isn’t expressing support. Plus it offers no insight on the team or the game.


Well, I have put the other one on ignore after his comments...but will give you another chance even dispite your disdain, ouch! ))) But am very curious, who are you thinking has a lack of understanding of football? And compared to whom? Enquiring minds want to know.

Cheers.

I'll be at the game again this Saturday, 4 quality tickets again, food, drink...and thanks to a great parking tip from my good friend Gringo Starr...at least I'll save a tonne on parking.

Onward to victory!