TFC 2021-2022 player/coach/GM off-season roster discussion

[Oldtimer]

TFC 2021-2022

General roster discussion

Player off-season moves/speculation/rumours
Post your speculation/information/etc. here in this thread!

Confirmed (by traditional media or the club) signings can get a separate single thread. All other "inside" and other information goes here.

[Oldtimer]

Technically the off-season for MLS starts the day after the MLS Cup, i.e. December 12, 2021, but for TFC the off-season starts with the final season game on November 7.

[rydermike]

Offseason game plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnSccAokV3c

[MikeForbes]

So, we need what? I am saying

Atleast 1 GK
2 CBs
A fullback
2 strikers (1 preferably would be able to play wing aswell)

[gracos]

no changes will be effective unless we get rid of minimum Ali Curtis, but Manning and Perez should also be evaluated, fill that spot then we can look at acquisitions

[MikeForbes]

no changes will be effective unless we get rid of minimum Ali Curtis, but Manning and Perez should also be evaluated, fill that spot then we can look at acquisitions

If we don't hear anything within a week about Curtis, I think he is back.

[gracos]

If we don't hear anything within a week about Curtis, I think he is back.

and if hes back we are missing the playoffs next year

[MikeForbes]

and if hes back we are missing the playoffs next year

No doubt since it will take him until next August to make a decision about anything.

[Richard]

Just off the top of my head. Buyout, trade, sell, or retire. Not good enough.



Jozy

Altidore

Toronto FC

F

$2,161,250.00

$3,602,250.00



Michael

Bradley

Toronto FC

M

$1,500,000.00

$1,500,000.00



Chris

Mavinga

Toronto FC

D

$850,000.00

$887,500.00



Omar

Gonzalez

Toronto FC

D

$780,000.00

$1,055,936.00



Alex

Bono

Toronto FC

GK

$450,000.00

$482,000.00



Erickson

Gallardo

Toronto FC

M

$300,000.00

$331,913.00



Nick

DeLeon

Toronto FC

D-M

$247,500.00

$263,242.00



Dom

Dwyer

Toronto FC

F

$81,375.00

$81,375.00



Eriq

Zavaleta

Toronto FC

D

$81,375.00

$115,503.00

[OgtheDim]

Rumour the Voyageurs will be Nov 20 in Montreal.

Nothing on Curtis until then

[MikeForbes]

Rumour the Voyageurs will be Nov 20 in Montreal.

Nothing on Curtis until then

There probably won't be anything, but if they have decided to move on from Curtis the Voyageurs should not stop them from announcing it. He should not be having a say in the impending options on players.

[Bushmancan]

Rumour the Voyageurs will be Nov 20 in Montreal.

Nothing on Curtis until then

Woohoo. We will have everyone back, except Cutis :deadhorse:

[jloome]

Holy crap, Vanney's Galaxy eliminated in the last few minutes. What a collapse.

[MikeForbes]

I might be wrong, but it looks like TFC will have the second overall pick in the Super Draft.

[Kayaker]

I might be wrong, but it looks like TFC will have the second overall pick in the Super Draft.

Third overall..... Charlotte gets the first pick.

[Areathrasher]

So I guess options and what not will be announced after the cup final?

[MikeForbes]

Third overall..... Charlotte gets the first pick.

Yes. Guess we have an expansion draft to deal with aswell.

[noxx98]

So I guess options and what not will be announced after the cup final?
I couldn’t find it for this year, but I believe teams need to decide on options ~2 days after the season is done or after they’re eliminated from the playoffs. Not sure if these are made public right away or if it’ll be pushed back for us given the Montreal game still remains.

[rydermike]

I couldn’t find it for this year, but I believe teams need to decide on options ~2 days after the season is done or after they’re eliminated from the playoffs. Not sure if these are made public right away or if it’ll be pushed back for us given the Montreal game still remains.

I feel like it'll be postponed til after CanChamp. It'd be pretty awkward for players to be 'cut' and then still have one more game to play.

[noxx98]

I feel like it'll be postponed til after CanChamp. It'd be pretty awkward for players to be 'cut' and then still have one more game to play.
Last year Montreal still had a CCL game and had to make their roster announcements right at the end of the season. MLS didnt require players who have had options declined to play. One of the four Montreal players who had options declined ended up making the lineup for the CCL game

[jloome]

These guys are reporting Bradley has already accepted the job here.

https://us.as.com/us/2021/11/08/futbol/1636347119_701013.html

[Blindside16]

If we don't hear anything within a week about Curtis, I think he is back.


We should here something in about 2 weeks

[MightyDM]

Last year Montreal still had a CCL game and had to make their roster announcements right at the end of the season. MLS didnt require players who have had options declined to play. One of the four Montreal players who had options declined ended up making the lineup for the CCL game

Madness!

[ensco]

These guys are reporting Bradley has already accepted the job here.

https://us.as.com/us/2021/11/08/futbol/1636347119_701013.html

Looking at this guys feed… he is just an aggregator. Wouldn’t surprise me if his “source” for that story was this board.

https://us.as.com/autor/jorge_alejandro_herrera_navas/a/

[OgtheDim]

Last year Montreal still had a CCL game and had to make their roster announcements right at the end of the season. MLS didnt require players who have had options declined to play. One of the four Montreal players who had options declined ended up making the lineup for the CCL game


So both us & Montreal will have to do this. Was thinking maybe the league might take pity on a team that indicates its likely to make 8 or so changes but can't treat 2 teams in a cup final differently.

[noxx98]

For what it's worth, Perez said the whole team will remain in Toronto to train in advance of the Canadian Championship.
https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1457487650609319939

[Ultra & Proud]

So both us & Montreal will have to do this. Was thinking maybe the league might take pity on a team that indicates its likely to make 8 or so changes but can't treat 2 teams in a cup final differently.

We might end up having the most Canadian line up for a Voyageurs Cup final ever.

[Areathrasher]

I dont think I want Bob Bradley here. Let him go to Cinci or Chicago.

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/_GIFN/status/1457669068249468934?s=20

[ag futbol]

I call BS on us paying more than 5 million euros a season. We might be spenders but our budget still has limits.

[MikeForbes]

I call BS on us paying more than 5 million euros a season. We might be spenders but our budget still has limits.

I have no idea what is actually going on, but 5 million euros is roughly 5.7 million USD. That is 11th man on an NBA bench level salary. With no transfer fee involved I feel confident in saying MLSE could be okay with shelling out 7 million per year to a player like Insigne.

[noxx98]

So, ignoring some of the contract options that we'll hear about soon, the big off season questions I have are:

- What is the management structure of the team going to look like going forward? (President, GM, coach)
- Who are our DPs? (Jozy buyout? Soteldo sold back to South America? Pozuelo returns to Europe or signs an extension? You can envision a scenario where all three DPs aren't with the team next year, even though it's unlikely.
- If Jozy is bought out, do we trust Ayo and Perruzza to take the reins on the striker spot or do we sign another DP striker? I'd love for Ayo and Perruzza to get significant time, but neither have shown the ability to stay healthy for a full season
- Do we sell/transfer/trade any of our mid-tier players? Thinking Oso, Delgado, Richie, Auro, maybe Mavinga. The first four definitely have value inside and outside of the league. Mavinga may not be as valued given this season, but he's not far removed from being a top CB in the league and has still shown flashes of this.
- Where does Bradley play on the field and how often?

[Ultra & Proud]

I have no idea what is actually going on, but 5 million euros is roughly 5.7 million USD. That is 11th man on an NBA bench level salary. With no transfer fee involved I feel confident in saying MLSE could be okay with shelling out 7 million per year to a player like Insigne.
They were okay with paying Jozy near that for the past few years to hardly play so I think they can handle it.

[Ultra & Proud]

- Who are our DPs? (Jozy buyout? Soteldo sold back to South America? Pozuelo returns to Europe or signs an extension? You can envision a scenario where all three DPs aren't with the team next year, even though it's unlikely.
- If Jozy is bought out, do we trust Ayo and Perruzza to take the reins on the striker spot or do we sign another DP striker? I'd love for Ayo and Perruzza to get significant time, but neither have shown the ability to stay healthy for a full season
- Do we sell/transfer/trade any of our mid-tier players? Thinking Oso, Delgado, Richie, Auro, maybe Mavinga. The first four definitely have value inside and outside of the league. Mavinga may not be as valued given this season, but he's not far removed from being a top CB in the league and has still shown flashes of this.
- Where does Bradley play on the field and how often?

- I think we will have all the DP spots cleared this winter. Seems more likely than any of them staying at this point
- Can't trust any of our currect strikers so we need to buy two anyway. One DP level and another Mullins level MLSer but hopefully a little younger & better.
- I think Delgado could and should be moved for allocation $$$. I would keep the rest minus Mavinga but I am not sure we can move him. He makes too much for a defender that is positionally poor and now losing a step.
- Bradley's best position would be an assistant under his Dad

[MikeForbes]

Page two before the annual trade Delgado for allocation money/defender post popped up. That is usually page one material. ;)

Speaking of Marky

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1457734784885604357?s=20

[jabbronies]

Page two before the annual trade Delgado for allocation money/defender post popped up. That is usually page one material. ;)

Speaking of Marky

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1457734784885604357?s=20

stupid move to get rid of Delgado just for the sake of getting rid of him. He's entering his prime and has a shit ton of MLS experience, not easy or cheap to get a player like this. With the right pieces in the midfield, he is a solid MLS starter

[MikeForbes]

stupid move to get rid of Delgado just for the sake of getting rid of him. He's entering his prime and has a shit ton of MLS experience, not easy or cheap to get a player like this. With the right pieces in the midfield, he is a solid MLS starter

He was very missed in the midfield yesterday. Bradley doesn't have the legs anymore and Pozuelo is in the worst form of his life. Him, Oso and Okello are gelling into a very nice trio.

[MikeForbes]

And there is also this saying Bob Bradley is coming to TFC...

https://twitter.com/WDPhotography3/status/1457741237604212738?s=20

Edit: Couldn't get the original link to work so I linked it through this nice guys tweet.

[TFC/Everton]

Woohoo. We will have everyone back, except Cutis :deadhorse:

I would bet Curtis will be back.

[jabbronies]

He was very missed in the midfield yesterday. Bradley doesn't have the legs anymore and Pozuelo is in the worst form of his life. Him, Oso and Okello are gelling into a very nice trio.

ya I see Oso, Delgado and Priso being a part of the midfield that takes us to MLS Cup final again.
I'm not sold on Okello.

----Striker-----Shaff-------

-----------Poz---------

----oso----------Marky------

----------Priso--------------

Kemar----D----D----Lareya-

-------------GK---------------

[ag futbol]

I have no idea what is actually going on, but 5 million euros is roughly 5.7 million USD. That is 11th man on an NBA bench level salary. With no transfer fee involved I feel confident in saying MLSE could be okay with shelling out 7 million per year to a player like Insigne.
But that’s a different team with a different budget. Maybe you’re right and I misestimated the exchange rate in my head but I’d still think someone in Europe will give him what he wants and we’re not a realistic candidate here, just a stalking horse to drive up the price for others.

[MikeForbes]

But that’s a different team with a different budget. Maybe you’re right and I misestimated the exchange rate in my head but I’d still think someone in Europe will give him what he wants and we’re not a realistic candidate here, just a stalking horse to drive up the price for others.

Very possible. The chances of us actually getting Insigne are remote even if we do offer 7 million per year. This could be another Borré situation.

[Yohan]

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/fans-salute-morrow-as-tfc-ends-regular-season-with-loss-to-d-c-united
Some interesting tidbits from Buffery

[Mikmacdo]

I call BS on us paying more than 5 million euros a season. We might be spenders but our budget still has limits.
didnt we used to pay giovinco 7 mill usd? insigne is worth 10 usd.

[MikeForbes]

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/fans-salute-morrow-as-tfc-ends-regular-season-with-loss-to-d-c-united
Some interesting tidbits from Buffery

Of note: Jozy left yesterday's game with a groin issue.

[MikeForbes]

Buffery throwing cold water Bob Bradley reports seems very much like a "we haven't been tampering!" thing coming from the FO.

https://twitter.com/Beezersun/status/1457758068549292041?s=20

[Areathrasher]

But Michael txting his dad on the other hand....

[OgtheDim]

I think ensco is correct

These reports started here

[Canary10]

I'm curious if anyone has seen Dayne St. Clair play this year? He's been mostly a back up in Minnesota. Would he be a good trade target?

[Areathrasher]

I know barley anyone listens to it but Tenorio and Stejskal have been banging this drum (Bradley to TFC) for months now on the allocation disorder podcast.

https://twitter.com/FireTransfers/status/1457502571300597766?s=19

[MikeForbes]

I know barley anyone listens to it but Tenorio and Stejskal have been banging this drum (Bradley to TFC) for months now on the allocation disorder podcast.

https://twitter.com/FireTransfers/status/1457502571300597766?s=19

Yeah. The connections are too obvious to ignore. I would be much more surprised if Bradley isn't coaching here next year.

[Yohan]

I'm curious if anyone has seen Dayne St. Clair play this year? He's been mostly a back up in Minnesota. Would he be a good trade target?
He's been basically riding the bench after losing his starter spot. Guy needs a new start after his manager doesn't have confidence in him.

He can't be worse than Bono

[mowe]

So, we need what? I am saying

Atleast 1 GK
2 CBs
A fullback
2 strikers (1 preferably would be able to play wing aswell)
Looks good to me. And a new coach, of course.

We really need to fix our defence. This was our worst ever season in terms of goals allowed per game.

[gracos]

Chicago Fire is the first to release their list of releases

CM Álvaro Medrán 73
ST Robert Berić 72
CB Francisco Calvo 70
GK Kenneth Kronholm 68
CB Johan Kappelhof 68*
GK Bobby Shuttleworth 66*
CAM Luka Stojanović 65
RM Elliot Collier 61
CB Nick Slonina 56

*denotes free agent

[Amir.]

Lol the same vela who he didnt start in a must win game yesterday

[OgtheDim]

Vela & Bradley are not getting along...

[rydermike]

Since we're talking coaches.
https://twitter.com/ThomasNef/status/1457813784102322180

[rydermike]

Rocco Romeo's season in the CanPL is over.
Played 16 matches in CPL + 2 in Canadian Championship
Played the full 90 every game (Except one in which he got a red card in minute 90+8)
Scored 2 goals. Got 6 yellows (plus the red)

[Areathrasher]

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1457842559234023432?t=-t_pQncMNxZsZxUTvgQSSg&s=19

Onesoccer hinting at TFC news coming this eve

ESPN Brazil is reporting Soteldo to Palmeries so I wonder if it's that
http://www.espn.com.br/blogs/carlossartori/798015_reforco-gigante-venezuelano-soteldo-proximo-de-fechar-com-o-palmeiras

[Areathrasher]

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1457852938022531077

[MikeForbes]

The "offseason like no other" or whatever appears like it will happen this year instead of last year. I am trying not to get too excited by the thought of Insigne... And failing.

[ag futbol]

Anything short of Curtis being unceremoniously dumped on his ass is unacceptable. He’s shown no ability to build a team and the more we see of his choices, the stranger they are.


Get him out of there and stop leaking press clippings while begging people to renew their seats.

[MightyDM]

Two weeks

[SoccMan2]

Ok I just can’t see Insigne coming to TFC at least not now . I’m a big Napoli fan and Insigne born and raised in Napoli is not leaving Napoli still in his prime to come to the MLS not yet . Insigne is not Giovinco , Giovinco was not a star for Juventus or a starter , was not a star for the Italian national team and was not picked much for the national team. Insigne is a starter for the national team and one of it's better players . I do want to say that Giovinco should have played more for Juventus and the national team but for whatever reason he did not . I think he was talented enough and should have played more . Therefore, when TFC purchased Giovinco they got a very underrated player and he showed how good he was when he came here. However, Insigne is a notch above Giovinco and still very wanted by Napoli and if not Napoli then one of the bigger teams in Europe will definitely be interested . Getting a guy like Insigne right now just can’t see it happening .

[Phil744]

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1457852938022531077

Soteldo out and Insigne in ?

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1457852938022531077

Soteldo out and Insigne in ?

I believe he and Seba share the same agent, so might just be related to the ongoing discussions about him.

[Amir.]

Hes turning 31 next year with his contract ending and with Napoli this year hes getting subbed out almost every game and most of the time around 70 minutes so signing mls is not impossible

[MikeForbes]

I believe he and Seba share the same agent, so might just be related to the ongoing discussions about him.

I can't find any info on who represents Giovinco now, but Insigne's agent has these clients listed.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/g-e-v-sport-amp-management-srl/beraterfirma/berater/3827

[Bushmancan]

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1457852938022531077

Soteldo out and Insigne in ?

There is no way you keep Solteldo and Insigne. If Insigne is coming in Soteldo is gone. But we still need defenders and a new goalie

[Areathrasher]

I can't find any info on who represents Giovinco now, but Insigne's agent has these clients listed.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/g-e-v-sport-amp-management-srl/beraterfirma/berater/3827

Seba switched to this crowd from D'Amico over the summer

https://www.transfermarkt.us/ac-sport-consulting/beraterfirma/berater/5070

[OgtheDim]

Ok, just gaming this out.

What does a player like Insigne need around him?

A playmaker?

A supportive bombing down the back WB?

A hold up forward?



What do you get if you have that player in your squad to make sure he succeeds?

[wynne]

They were apparently wining and dining a possible new DP this week, and he is apparently Italian, so Insigne might be who was here touring the city.

[MikeForbes]

Buffery, who has actually been the best journalist for attempting to get quotes and comments from the team, has this new article.

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/the-silly-season-has-started-with-tfc-being-linked-to-big-name-coach-player

Interesting tidbit on Soteldo who is quoted as being "a challenge" in the locker room.

[MikeForbes]

Toronto and our Borré rivals, Palmeiras appear to be close to a Soteldo transfer according to ESPN Brazil.

https://twitter.com/futebol_info/status/1457841404080795649?s=20

[Phil744]

Bob Bradley deal already done to be next TFC Coach...

https://twitter.com/TransfersMLS/status/1458081870730645511

[Joe Kool]

Ok, just gaming this out.

What does a player like Insigne need around him?

A playmaker?

A supportive bombing down the back WB?

A hold up forward?



What do you get if you have that player in your squad to make sure he succeeds?

He is used to playing on the left side of a front 3 and works well with a hold up forward in the middle to play off of as well as a LB that gets forward to interchange down the wing. He can play a more central role at times for Napoli but not his thing really. He likes to play down the left then cut in to shoot on his right. He is the Napoli captain and plays with a lot of passion. They definitely needs the right pieces around him to be successful and that is not Dwyer or Mullinho in the middle of the park we can be sure of that. Definitely need to find an Altidore type of player but one that can actually play most games. Insigne is rarely injured or missing from a lineup so he is durable still at his age which is good. He doesn't do all the flashy stepovers and all that stuff to take defenders on but would rather do the 1-2 passing around defenders to get in on goal so he does need the supporting cast. Is Shaff ready to give up his number though? Insigne has his number 24 at Napoli and tattooed on his leg :)

[Richard]

Regarding Insigne and Bob, only one of those can be true. How can you look for a new DP without the new coaches input?

The talks with Insigne must have started before Bob supposedly signed for us.

I am inclined to believe we are getting Bob. The whole Insigne thing is just TFC being used as a pawn(willingly) to drive his price up for the Jan window. We must be doing a favor for the Italians.

[Ultra & Proud]

Regarding Insigne and Bob, only one of those can be true. How can you look for a new DP without the new coaches input?

The talks with Insigne must have started before Bob supposedly signed for us.


They're saying Bob's been basically done for "weeks" so he could have had input. His son could have dropped a "so what do you think about Insigne on TFC next year?" during a phone call, who knows?

It did seem like he checked out of LAFC a while ago though.

[MikeForbes]

Regarding Insigne and Bob, only one of those can be true. How can you look for a new DP without the new coaches input?

The talks with Insigne must have started before Bob supposedly signed for us.

I am inclined to believe we are getting Bob. The whole Insigne thing is just TFC being used as a pawn(willingly) to drive his price up for the Jan window. We must be doing a favor for the Italians.

Yeah. Just like with Vanney last year there are likely some back channel dealings going on. Vanney almost definitely knew the LAG gig was his before he announced he wasn't returning to Toronto. I also can't see many managers getting upset that they could be coaching one of the biggest names to ever come to MLS.

[TFC/Everton]

Anything short of Curtis being unceremoniously dumped on his ass is unacceptable. He’s shown no ability to build a team and the more we see of his choices, the stranger they are.


Get him out of there and stop leaking press clippings while begging people to renew their seats.

Ali Curtis WILL NOT be fired. He deserves to be, but it simply won't happen.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ali Curtis WILL NOT be fired. He deserves to be, but it simply won't happen.
I think he will because I think that's the role Bob will have along with manager.

[noxx98]

Regarding Insigne and Bob, only one of those can be true. How can you look for a new DP without the new coaches input?
Insigne is the type of player that any coach in MLS would take. If they say "no, I'd rather someone else", they're lying and should be fired. Coaches should always be able to be somewhat flexible in the system they'd like to play in order to integrate great players.

That said - totally agree with you that Insigne could just be us doing a favour to Italian agents, plus it helps raise TFC's profile globally.

[noxx98]

A challenge for recruitment of any international DP will be the timing of the World Cup at the end of 2022. If we're looking at players that are in competition for their international team and the team is a potential World Cup competitor, they may hesitate to join TFC and come to MLS all together. Thinking about European based players specifically. A player in competition to play for an Italy/Spain/etc. would likely prefer to stay in Europe in what's viewed as a "top" league. Even the transatlantic flights for international windows would be a lot to add on to players.

We may be better off looking for players that are outside of the national team picture. Still lots of good players in that range - Pozuelo and prime Vazquez are perfect examples of a really good player who had no chance on the national team.

[ag futbol]

^ Let’s be honest, the management team that runs our club is likely to see it as a net positive. They say they’ve signed player X but he’s on loan and won’t report until after the WC.

The team sucks and they use the excuse their best player hasn’t arrived yet, buying them another year.

Straight out of the Mo Johnston school of extending your tenor (while accomplishing nothing).

[nfitz]

I dont think I want Bob Bradley here. Let him go to Cinci or Chicago.Who do we get then?

[Phil744]

Just remember Bob was the same guy who traded away Zimmerman for nothing and since that trade LA has been going downhill. I would also prefer we don't sign him but already looks like a done deal...

[MikeForbes]

Not gonna post it here because it isn't worth it, but if anyone wants a good laugh go check out Rollins on Twitter trying to pretend he knows who TFC's DP targets are. He can't tell us, but he definitely knows.

[Areathrasher]

Who do we get then?

Depends. Are they gonna try and re-tool on the fly or do a proper re-build?

Bradley might suit if they try a quick re-tool and squeeze another year or two out of the majority of the roster with an addition or two. Given LAFC have similar resources to TFC and LAFC fans cant wait to see the back of him I'm apprehensive.

[OgtheDim]

On LAFC fans not liking Bradley anymore

They don't know what they have had. Wait until they get some person who really can't do the job but looks good to the media. Maybe not Armas bad but I'm thinking a guy like Almeyda who is promising but never quite there.

I'm not sold on Bradley because of the Zimmerman trade but LAFC people have about as much institutional knowledge as ATL 2 years ago.

[noxx98]

On LAFC, the Zimmerman trade didn't work out, but they did get $950k-$1.1M in GAM. It's not like they let him walk for nothing. He was also due for a raise and received a TAM deal the following year. Similarly, they sold Kaye for $1M in GAM with one year left on his contract. Colorado is going to need to give Kaye a big extension.
They did a good job of cashing out on players while they could. They just didn't necessarily re-invest that money properly.

[ag futbol]

My point of contention with Zimmerman would be they sold an asset that was a needed part of their team and struggled to replace it with someone of an equivalent quality. Like very poorly thought out and horribly executed all around.

But I don’t know how much say Bradley had in the matter?

[Areathrasher]

Who is their GM? Thorington is like their Manning? But there is no Curits in between Bradley and Thorington?

[Joe Kool]

But I don’t know how much say Bradley had in the matter?

This is what I was wondering. All the behind the scenes stuff that goes on.

[Richard]

Insigne is the type of player that any coach in MLS would take. If they say "no, I'd rather someone else", they're lying and should be fired. Coaches should always be able to be somewhat flexible in the system they'd like to play in order to integrate great players.

That said - totally agree with you that Insigne could just be us doing a favour to Italian agents, plus it helps raise TFC's profile globally.

Yes he would be a good player however I still want the coach to make the decision.

How do you know if he doesn't want to prioritize a new DP midfield destroyer like Bradley in his prime? His options should be available, its not like we are talking about a Ronaldo or Messi.

[Areathrasher]

On LAFC fans not liking Bradley anymore

They don't know what they have had. Wait until they get some person who really can't do the job but looks good to the media. Maybe not Armas bad but I'm thinking a guy like Almeyda who is promising but never quite there.

I'm not sold on Bradley because of the Zimmerman trade but LAFC people have about as much institutional knowledge as ATL 2 years ago.

Once upon a time I thought NYRB fans were just bitter about Armas...

[ag futbol]

Once upon a time I thought NYRB fans were just bitter about Armas...
In fairness, there were plenty of signs Armas was an odd ball. Playing players out of position, horrid communication skills, over zealous adherence to a philosophy that didn’t suit the team.

My “fear” with Bradley is he’s just an average dude making up the numbers. He might not suck but I have a hard time believing he’s a winner. I’ve seen LAFC in enough big games and they play okay in the regular season but look like perpetual first round exit candidates in the playoffs.

[Areathrasher]

In fairness, there were plenty of signs Armas was an odd ball. Playing players out of position, horrid communication skills, over zealous adherence to a philosophy that didn’t suit the team.

My “fear” with Bradley is he’s just an average dude making up the numbers. He might not suck but I have a hard time believing he’s a winner. I’ve seen LAFC in enough big games and they play okay in the regular season but look like perpetual first round exit candidates in the playoffs.

That's the thing. I've barely watched any LAFC over the last few years. I read they've been plagued with injuries and have been underperforming their underlying metrics but their fans are screaming blue murder about their signings and Bradley's lineups and in game management. There is also years of evidence of Bradley been a stubborn sanctimonious prick. So, yea, massive case of buyer beware for me.

[SoccMan2]

Bob Bradley yes bring him on has an MLS Cup under his belt coaching Chicago in their inaugural season . Coached the US national team got them to the World Cup
and advanced out of their group. Probably the best coach out there that is available, he will be one of the better coaches TFC have ever hired if they hire him , bring him here and let’s turn around this mess.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Bob Bradley is for sure the best coach available right now within MLS and with a good MLS pedigree, and a name in US and Canada, but of course is underwhelming.

Only solution as TFC head coach for me who would be available and not underwhelming would be a coach from outside of the MLS realm, from South America (but just Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay) or Europe. But this is unlikely to happen.

[Bushmancan]

OK, so my rant…

Lets be honest this team is broken and fragile. We are not a possession team, we are not a full out pressing team and quite frankly i don’t see us having the personnel to be either. (So the whole Armas experiment was so naive to be implemented in 3 months, let alone over two seasons).

Now, we can be more direct, and that is fun to watch. We can be selective in our style because we do have some players with high IQ and we can sustain pressing appropriately.

We talk about Bono’s decline but maybe he is really a reflex goalie and his distribution wasn’t ever really that good. Remember, everything in 16-18 went through MB, so Bono would always look there first…. It was safe.

IMHO, the biggest thing we need to decide is what we want to be and build a team around it, i have patience but I have ZERO and I mean ZERO confidence in the Front Office’s ability, to do that right now (Manning wont pull the trigger on Curtis). I do remember one of Leiweke’s first quotes was that TFC was going to be one of the quickest of assets to turn around at that time. He understood the business, hope is not a strategy.

Soccer is going to be one of the hottest things for the next 5-6 years in this city, and this country, and when we qualify for 2022 even more so. So MLSE and TFC be decisive, ruthless and spend money the right way so TFC is back being one of the Big Clubs in NA.

It starts with management, theoretical 200 page plans don’t do anything but sit on a shelf….

Find the right GM/Coach, acquire players and support staff to implement his or her vision, then find the appropriate players and get back to playing good football. Don’t go signing players to fill the seats and lose miserably or that next DP will jettison as well.

[ag futbol]

Bob Bradley yes bring him on has an MLS Cup under his belt coaching Chicago in their inaugural season . Coached the US national team got them to the World Cup
and advanced out of their group. Probably the best coach out there that is available, he will be one of the better coaches TFC have ever hired if they hire him , bring him here and let’s turn around this mess.
Bob Bradley is 2022 Preki

Maybe that’s the comparison

[Canary10]

Bob Bradley is 2022 Preki

Maybe that’s the comparison

Preki with EPL experience?

[MikeForbes]

Guess we didn't impress Insigne's agent.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1458420009311555591?s=20

[ag futbol]

Preki with 11 games EPL experience?
Fixed your post 😉

[Canary10]

Fixed your post 

Lol. But we all know he really got fired for calling a penalty a PK.

[Canary10]

Here's what TFC ought to do. Package up all the money they want to spend on Bob Bradley and maybe a bit more, and go get Daniel Farke. I Hear he's available, lol.

[TFC/Everton]

Guess we didn't impress Insigne's agent.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1458420009311555591?s=20

I suspect Curtis and Manning will end up signing some overpriced South American DP(s) nobody has ever heard of and the team will continue flounder.

They might try to sign a big European DP, but as we have seen for the past three years, they will fail. The magic in this team from '14-'17 is gone. We should have made Tim B our president when we had the chance.

Ali Curtis will continue to play internal politics and ensure he can't be fired. Until we cut out the cancer, Manning and Curtis, the club is going to struggle.

[MikeForbes]

I suspect Curtis and Manning will end up signing some overpriced South American DP(s) nobody has ever heard of and the team will continue flounder.

They might try to sign a big European DP, but as we have seen for the past three years, they will fail. The magic in this team from '14-'17 is gone. We should have made Tim B our president when we had the chance.

Ali Curtis will continue to play internal politics and ensure he can't be fired. Until we cut out the cancer, Manning and Curtis, the club is going to struggle.

I would put my money on a guy like Cristian Tello. Not a national team player, out of contract in June and can come over and be buddies with Pozuelo while making the team a bit better.

[ag futbol]

Lol. But we all know he really got fired for calling a penalty a PK.
There was definitely a high degree of schadenfreude in the English press. “Oh the American thinks he can coach here! Not good enough!” Lol

[Richard]

I knew the Insigne stuff was a pipe dream. You need a Tim Leiweke to pull that off.

So is the club really going to wait until after the cup game to release players/staff/coaching? Lets get the show on the road already.

[jabbronies]

I knew the Insigne stuff was a pipe dream. You need a Tim Leiweke to pull that off.

So is the club really going to wait until after the cup game to release players/staff/coaching? Lets get the show on the road already.

They need a manager first. You have to let the manager make those decisions

[OgtheDim]

If I had a dollar for how many times I've seen "those are completley fake" a few days or weeks before the reports turn out to be true, I could probably afford a nice vacation.

[Ultra & Proud]

If I had a dollar for how many times I've seen "those are completley fake" a few days or weeks before the reports turn out to be true, I could probably afford a nice vacation.
I read the same things about Defoe, Giovinco, Bradley, & Pozuelo and Cesar (for his loan). Those are just for us and off the top of my head.

[MightyDM]

I read the same things about Defoe, Giovinco, Bradley, & Pozuelo and Cesar (for his loan). Those are just for us and off the top of my head.

Gio? Are you sure? That was a pretty silent one. I don’t remember too many leaks amd therefore no denials.

[Joe Kool]

They need a manager first. You have to let the manager make those decisions

They knew Vanney was leaving last year and still took forever to finally get Armas named at the start of training camp if I recall. If they pull that crap again how is the manager going to have time to make any player decisions before the season starts.....they better get it right this time. Another failed coaching appointment in terms of selection or timing would be brutal. But to be honest I would not be surprised by anything these days.

[Ultra & Proud]

Gio? Are you sure? That was a pretty silent one. I don’t remember too many leaks amd therefore no denials.
There was a solid 24-36 hours of utter denial that a young Juve player would come to MLS much less Toronto.

[jloome]

There was definitely a high degree of schadenfreude in the English press. “Oh the American thinks he can coach here! Not good enough!” Lol
He actually had a better record in his first eleven games than the guy he replaced. But he didn’t come ready; like Ange at Celtic he wanted a tinkering period to assess ideal squad and tactics but you don’t get any time leeway in the Prem. He might’ve come good eventually but the English press are absolute jackals about most things, particularly Americans, and particularly Americans managing football.

[ensco]

I believed the Defoe and Gio rumours.

I don't believe the Insigne one whatsoever. That player has legitimate options in Europe. He isn't facing going to Bournemouth or Parma or similar…

[MikeForbes]

Pretty sure we heard about Pozuelo, Genk denied it and Pozuelo immediately stopped talking to the media. Next thing we knew they were threatening to take us to court.

[MightyDM]

There was a solid 24-36 hours of utter denial that a young Juve player would come to MLS much less Toronto.

I can’t argue with that. Likely why I don’t remember it being Giovinco even though it ultimately was.

[MightyDM]

I believed the Defoe and Gio rumours.

I don't believe the Insigne one whatsoever. That player has legitimate options in Europe. He isn't facing going to Bournemouth or Parma or similar…

Agree this isn’t convincing.

The Bradley rumours, though, make sense.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, I don't think a guy of that calibre with those options is coming here.

&

Talk about "never" or "fake" is just as fake.

[MikeForbes]

I honestly don't remember the Giovinco rumors at all. I remember Defoe and Bradley's rumors and Defoe leaving TFC for Jozy.

[jloome]

I honestly don't remember the Giovinco rumors at all. I remember Defoe and Bradley's rumors and Defoe leaving TFC for Jozy.

There was a solid two-week period or so before they met with him in Italy where I think most of us wrote of Giovinco as a pipe dream.

Insigne seems more unlikely as he's been the subject of interest from multiple Prem teams already. But there was a report in Italy last week that Qatari football types had approached him. Most likely his agent is just ratcheting the pressure up.

[James17930]

I really tend to think we should focus our efforts at the back. A DP CB. We actually have pretty decent depth in the midfield and forward (Ayo, Acharya, Shaff). Okay, we probably need 1 striker.

And whoever said trying to get St. Clair from MIN, great idea.

[ensco]

There was a solid two-week period or so before they met with him in Italy where I think most of us wrote of Giovinco as a pipe dream.

Insigne seems more unlikely as he's been the subject of interest from multiple Prem teams already. But there was a report in Italy last week that Qatari football types had approached him. Most likely his agent is just ratcheting the pressure up.

That isn’t the way it was. I went back and looked, it was actually kind of interesting. See the 10-15 pages starting page 71 here…
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?36774-TFC-2014-15-Off-Season-player-moves-speculation-rumours-etc-thread/page71&highlight=2014-15

There were a couple of people saying it couldn’t be true but, mostly, people thought, if the money was really $7M, Gio would come, because he didn’t have serious options in Europe (sounds like there was maybe a Monaco rumour, but they would have paid him, say, $2-3M for a couple of years)

Insigne, he has to be looking at a lot more. Cavani is on $15M a year at Man Utd, so Insigne is probably worth half that at West Ham or wherever. A good club will give him 2 years and $15M, plus maybe Champions League.

There is a world of difference in elite Europe between a 5 foot 5 inch player that can’t get in at a big club (which was Gio's situation) vs a classic plug and play striker/winger coming off 19 goals in 35 games at an almost as big club.

We would have to pay $30M, like we did to Gio, to seriously try to get him, and even then, if I were him, I would say no. If Insigne wants MLS, he can do it in two years, more like Gonzalo Higuain did after going to Inter.

Plus Leiweke is long gone, nobody is offering $30M anymore to a guy like this that has no resale value.

It doesn’t add up. He isn’t coming.

I think it's very possible they have talked about 2024, and Manning is doing Insigne's agent a solid in the meantime by leaking this, as a gesture of goodwill.

[jabbronies]

They knew Vanney was leaving last year and still took forever to finally get Armas named at the start of training camp if I recall. If they pull that crap again how is the manager going to have time to make any player decisions before the season starts.....they better get it right this time. Another failed coaching appointment in terms of selection or timing would be brutal. But to be honest I would not be surprised by anything these days.

I mean this, IMO, is Curtis' biggest downfall. He's slow AF to make moves. If he was to move faster, I don't think he would be all that bad.

He needs to learn how to Fail fast and move on.

[jabbronies]

There was a solid two-week period or so before they met with him in Italy where I think most of us wrote of Giovinco as a pipe dream.

Insigne seems more unlikely as he's been the subject of interest from multiple Prem teams already. But there was a report in Italy last week that Qatari football types had approached him. Most likely his agent is just ratcheting the pressure up.

I'm pretty sure TFC would be the last option for a player of this caliber to consider.
When TFC are considered serious contenders for this type of player, It probably means all of the players better European options didn't pan out for him.
And the player getting to this this stage of their search doesn't happen this early. It's usually super last minute (1 month out max of it actually happening)


My Hot Take
Insigne isn't happening and him being our target is not the thing you should be taking away from all this rumour.
The thing we should be focusing on is that their search has started in Italy. Seems like a Serie A player is their focus.

TFC are probably playing the Insigne game as a favour to the agent to show that the player is being sought after in leagues that will spend $$$. So if a team wants him, they'll need to spend a bit more, not MLS level more, but a little bit more. In return the agent helps TFC to get a player, at the very least puts in a good word for them.

I personally expect at the end of this an Italian player of some sort coming to TFC. Someone who can compliment Poz and help bring him back to MVP form.

[MikeForbes]

The full list of MLS players with options and out of contract players. If we bring back Gonzalez at his price tag...

TFC players with options are Mullinho, Osorio, Omar and Zavs.

Out of contract players are Endoh and DeLeon.

https://mlsplayers.org/news/free-agency-list-released

[noxx98]

The full list of MLS players with options and out of contract players. If we bring back Gonzalez at his price tag...

https://mlsplayers.org/news/free-agency-list-released
Players with options: OG, Osorio, Zav, Mullins
Players out of contract and free agents: Endoh, DeLeon

I think Oso is a shoe in to return. Zav may be back if his option salary is similar to what he made this year. At the very least we could flip him to another MLS team. MAYBE OG comes back if he's willing to take a significant pay cut. The team should move on from the others.

EDIT: I think this list only covers players who would be free agents. I think there are a few other players who we hold options for that would not be eligible for free agency.

[MikeForbes]

Of the players with options, TFC should be keeping their eye on what happens with (I know, I know) the Red Bulls and Aaron Long.

[portu]

Players with options: OG, Osorio, Zav, Mullins
Players out of contract and free agents: Endoh, DeLeon

I think Oso is a shoe in to return. Zav may be back if his option salary is similar to what he made this year. At the very least we could flip him to another MLS team. MAYBE OG comes back if he's willing to take a significant pay cut. The team should move on from the others.

EDIT: I think this list only covers players who would be free agents. I think there are a few other players who we hold options for that would not be eligible for free agency.
The only player that should return out of all those is Oso. Anyone else comes back and they demonstrate they aren't committed to the rebuild.

[Gringo Starr]

[QUOTE=MikeForbes;1947280]Of the players with options, TFC should be keeping their eye on what happens with (I know, I know) the Red Bulls and Aaron Long.[/QUOTE

Closet Curtis supporter alert

[Gringo Starr]

Of the players with options, TFC should be keeping their eye on what happens with (I know, I know) the Red Bulls and Aaron Long.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Tesho in Toronto and move on from Mullins and Dwyer

[Auzzy]

EDIT: I think this list only covers players who would be free agents. I think there are a few other players who we hold options for that would not be eligible for free agency.

This is a good point. This list is from the union, and includes only the free agents. Younger players, and/or players less than 5 years in MLS, would not be on this list even if they're on an option year OR out of contract.

[jloome]

That isn’t the way it was. I went back and looked, it was actually kind of interesting. See the 10-15 pages starting page 71 here…
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?36774-TFC-2014-15-Off-Season-player-moves-speculation-rumours-etc-thread/page71&highlight=2014-15

There were a couple of people saying it couldn’t be true but, mostly, people thought, if the money was really $7M, Gio would come, because he didn’t have serious options in Europe (sounds like there was maybe a Monaco rumour, but they would have paid him, say, $2-3M for a couple of years).

I do tend to recall things more cynically than they were, rather unfortunate trait. It's a little disturbing how much busier the board was back then in the Bez-Leiweke optimism period.

[MikeForbes]

A lot of reports coming out of Italy today that we offered Insigne a "massive contract". They go on to say he does not appear tempted to go to MLS.

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/1458820680003248131?s=20

[jabbronies]

A lot of reports coming out of Italy today that we offered Insigne a "massive contract". They go on to say he does not appear tempted to go to MLS.

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/1458820680003248131?s=20

Forget Insigne. That's not the play.

What this does for TFC is it sends a message to other agents/players out there who may be interested that we are looking to make a splash. It hopefully sends people to us as oppose to us turning over every rock to find something.

[jloome]

Forget Insigne. That's not the play.

What this does for TFC is it sends a message to other agents/players out there who may be interested that we are looking to make a splash. It hopefully sends people to us as oppose to us turning over every rock to find something.

It also tells anyone in Europe in the market for Insigne that they'll have to pay through the nose. It's a win-win, message wise, which is probably why they cooked it up. If all else fails and no one there will pay what we offered, he still has us as a backdoor.

There was a story in Italy yesterday that Napoli have offered to front-load a new deal, so that he gets most of it in two years but there's an option for the last two. That way they can claim the overall deal is one amount but pay him twice that effectively, and then the market is still open to him at 32 if he wants to go then.

[MikeForbes]

Forget Insigne. That's not the play.

What this does for TFC is it sends a message to other agents/players out there who may be interested that we are looking to make a splash. It hopefully sends people to us as oppose to us turning over every rock to find something.

That is what I am thinking. Especially with this stuff coming out from big named Italian media members. You gotta think agents are gonna see this and say "hey, me and my client want to be filthy rich, maybe we can get in on that".

[MikeForbes]

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1458932605366251523?s=20

[OgtheDim]

Aaa..the old "we don't have an offer so this isn't real" bit of tomfoolery.

Likely what is happening?

Discussions useful to both sides for various reasons.

Outcome?

Player gets leverage with potential teams in leagues he prefers

Team shows committed fanbase management is interested in going big - if by some miracle it happens, then its a moonshot - if it doesn't nothing really lost but a bit of management time in November.

[MikeForbes]

Is TFC legally allowed to give Insigne a concrete offer before January?

[portu]

I do tend to recall things more cynically than they were, rather unfortunate trait. It's a little disturbing how much busier the board was back then in the Bez-Leiweke optimism period.
Part of that definitely felt down to the amount of leaks and (the necessary) increase in investment to the team.

[613reppingTFC]

Is TFC legally allowed to give Insigne a concrete offer before January?

I'm not totally sure on the rule for this so someone can correct me. But I would assume they can offer whatever they want and whenever they want, stating whatever the contract would perhaps be, he probably just can't sign said contract until they open the trade window?

[JoesphNdo]

I'm not totally sure on the rule for this so someone can correct me. But I would assume they can offer whatever they want and whenever they want, stating whatever the contract would perhaps be, he probably just can't sign said contract until they open the trade window?

Legally, my understanding is we could only start negotiation with a player without their clubs consent 6 months from the expiration of their contract (And sign them after it expires), otherwise we need to negotiate with the club first before talking to the player

In reality, that isn't how transfer deals are done so if there's any truth to these rumours whatsoever (And I don't see it) we're almost certainly in contact with the player today even if it's only at a 'throwing some numbers at the agent to see if this is worth pursuing at all' stage

[portu]

A list of players (using Insigne as a reference point) with contracts expiring in 2022 that could replicate Defoe/Giovinco level buzz:



Player/Club (Age)
Profile Note


Perisic/Inter Milan (32)
WC Question


Suarez/Atletico Madrid (34)
Playing regularly; knee problems; WC selection non-issue (see: Lodeiro)


Cavani/Manchester United (34)
Playing intermittently; WC selection non-issue (see: Lodeiro)


Kramaric/Hoffenheim (30)
Loyal to club; top European club likely to try and sign if possible


Lacazette/Arsenal (30)
Could move to top club, but likely wouldn't start; Retired from France; USD$ 11M Price Tag


Mkhitaryan/Roma (32)
Unhappy at Roma, wants more attacking freedom; Roma reportedly willing to part in January


Isco/Real Madrid (29)
Frozen out completely at Real; Sevilla front-runner; Agent/Father states "he wants to try another league"; Spain aspirations?


Januzaj/Real Sociedad (26)

Napoli in the running; Sociedad won't improve contract; WC question (pre. Ciman called up from MLS, Carrasco called up from China)


Bernardeschi/Juventus (27)
Juventus trying to cut wage; Juventus willing to swap in January (Soteldo?); BIG WC question mark (played 10 matches in 2021 for Italy)


Jesus Corona/FC Porto (28)
Calibre of clubs in for him likely not to pay him a ransom

[MikeForbes]

Januzaj makes the most sense to me out of that crew. Giving Suarez a huge deal for two years would generate the most buzz though, I think.

[jabbronies]

I'd love a younger Cavani to play here, but the travel alone would kill him. Add the fact some MLS teams still play on Turf. AND the fact that he isn't a 90 minute player right now. We'd probably see him play about 25% of the season and be injured for the rest.

Suarez would be a dressing room cancer. Too big of a personality for MLS and especially TFC

[notthesun]

I'd be in on Lacazette, he's good friends with Mavinga, not seeing many minutes this season for Arsenal, out of his national team picture and obviously talented enough to be a difference-maker here.

[portu]

Lacazette and Pozuelo would destroy MLS.

[MikeForbes]

Lacazette does seem like the ideal candidate to come to MLS.

[Bushmancan]

Our Goal differential was -27, thats a lot of ground to cover. I would like to hear about a TAM defender or new proven goalie in tandem with these great DP aspirations... sounds a lot like deja vu all over again.

Translation - Fire Curtis.... maybe Manning is waiting to see if we win CCL so his friend can hold a trophy and then fire him.. I would forgive Manning if that is what he is waiting for but in no real sports world should Curtis survive.

[jloome]

https://www.90min.com/posts/toronto-fc-interested-in-lorenzo-insigne-but-inter-deal-all-but-done

Insigne going to Inter, allegedly.

[jloome]

Lacazette does seem like the ideal candidate to come to MLS.

He made $12.6M for each of the last four seasons, so he'd have to take a serious paycut. But he is an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season and 31. His agent may have already told him to expect a decline in pay, but is almost certainly going to look for smaller Prem clubs that can pay more than us first.

[ensco]

https://www.90min.com/posts/toronto-fc-interested-in-lorenzo-insigne-but-inter-deal-all-but-done

Insigne going to Inter, allegedly.

Thank god, if only to end this ridiculous discussion. This was Borre all over again.

[noxx98]

So on Instagram, Gio was in Monaco and met up with his agent who is based there. It looks like Gio is now flying to the Maldives. His agent posted a story from a plane. Based on the route it looks like the agent is flying in to Toronto.

[ag futbol]

Thank god, if only to end this ridiculous discussion. This was Borre all over again.
Well Borre was a realistic target up until the point it was clear his head was too big to ever play in MLS and he only wanted Europe.

Now that said, we either chased too long or allowed our name to be floated in the market once too often.

Eventually you have to deny a rumour or two. Floating your name all the time isn’t as “free” as it seems at first glance

[MikeForbes]

Insigne isn't over. Not by a long shot.

[MikeForbes]

God, I don't want to waste any TAM or heaven forbid a DP spot on Nostalgia-Vinco.

[Ultra & Proud]

God, I don't want to waste any TAM or heaven forbid a DP spot on Nostalgia-Vinco.
Give him Mullins' last contract and be done with it.

[MikeForbes]

Give him Mullins' last contract and be done with it.

He can have Gallardo's even. I got a bad feeling he is getting a max TAM deal though if he does come.

[jloome]

Curtis blames COVID upheaval for the season.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/what-happened-to-toronto-fc-in-2021-and-how-do-they-fix-it

[MikeForbes]

Curtis blames COVID upheaval for the season.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/what-happened-to-toronto-fc-in-2021-and-how-do-they-fix-it

The human excuse machine is coming back, isn't he?

[rydermike]

Curtis's covid excuses don't hold any weight when you consider Montreal and Vancouver were both in the same boat and Vancouver made the playoffs, Montreal barely missed and we weren't even close

[MightyDM]

Curtis blames COVID upheaval for the season.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/what-happened-to-toronto-fc-in-2021-and-how-do-they-fix-it

Outrageous. “We take full responsibility for that and it’s important that we do”. NO YOU DO NOT YOU BLAME THE PANDEMIC.

And what does this mean?

“There’s been time spent on the profile of coach to help lead the team next year and beyond,” Curtis said. “There’s an understanding of the profile [we want], but the execution of that will happen once the season concludes.”

That is complete corporate bafflegab. Is this what Tottenham, Newcastle and Aston Villa did last week when they fired and then hired managers within a couple of days?

“Profile of the coach?” Come on.

How about “we got the balance of the team wrong. There were signs our defence was declining but we thought it was only Covid. We were wrong. Although Pozuelo, Soteldo amd Jozy give us formidable attacking options, it didn’t quite work. It’s pretty clear that we needed to start by shoring up the defence. And we got the coach wrong - I have every respect for Chris Armas, but I should have realized his style didn’t fit the club, given our roster, and I should have intervened much sooner to sort out the Jozy Altidore situation.”

[Richard]

Load of nonsense. Here is my violin to all of his excuses.

:violin:

I think we have to come to the realization that the MLSE board is asleep at the wheel regarding TFC. They care more about the Leafs and Raptors brand values post pandemic.

From that article it sounds like he is going to be given a chance for next year, and I predict a total disaster. I can even see them keeping Jozy based on his year end form. :facepalm:

[ag futbol]

The human excuse machine is coming back, isn't he?
Look at the bright side, it only took him one week to make excuses once the season ended, where it normally takes him 2 weeks to do anything.

[Auzzy]

God, I don't want to waste any TAM or heaven forbid a DP spot on Nostalgia-Vinco.

Seriously under-rated post.

[noxx98]

Goo’s agent posted an Instagram story from the Gardiner. Gio will be a red

[MikeForbes]

Seriously under-rated post.

Thanks. Gonna use that one a lot next year, I think.

[MikeForbes]

Goo’s agent posted an Instagram story from the Gardiner. Gio will be a red

Haha. Goo.

[noxx98]

Haha. Goo.
Oops… phone autocorrecting

[MikeForbes]

Oops… phone autocorrecting

All good. That is what we can call Gio if he is bad out there.

[Oldtimer]

Reminder this thread is a roster thread.

[portu]

Ali Curtis is back = our roster is fucked for next season. Jesus Christ.

You have to have a special combination of big balls and stupidity to say the shit he said in that interview.

[Bushmancan]

Reminder this thread is a roster thread.

This is the guy that has destroyed the roster …can’t back down. FIRE CURTIS

[Canary10]

Outrageous. “We take full responsibility for that and it’s important that we do”. NO YOU DO NOT YOU BLAME THE PANDEMIC.

And what does this mean?

“There’s been time spent on the profile of coach to help lead the team next year and beyond,” Curtis said. “There’s an understanding of the profile [we want], but the execution of that will happen once the season concludes.”

That is complete corporate bafflegab. Is this what Tottenham, Newcastle and Aston Villa did last week when they fired and then hired managers within a couple of days?

“Profile of the coach?” Come on.

How about “we got the balance of the team wrong. There were signs our defence was declining but we thought it was only Covid. We were wrong. Although Pozuelo, Soteldo amd Jozy give us formidable attacking options, it didn’t quite work. It’s pretty clear that we needed to start by shoring up the defence. And we got the coach wrong - I have every respect for Chris Armas, but I should have realized his style didn’t fit the club, given our roster, and I should have intervened much sooner to sort out the Jozy Altidore situation.”

I saw the profile: ≠ Chris Armas

[jloome]

Thank god, if only to end this ridiculous discussion. This was Borre all over again.

Lazio paper today quotes an "expert" saying the offer from TFC is "rich" and suggests Napoli and Inter are on the outside.

https://www.lazionews24.com/rinnovo-insigne-di-marzio-napoli-dichirazioni-futuro-toronto/

[portu]

They could sign Insigne and the rest of the Italian national team, but it still won't change that Ali Curtis and Bill Manning are dangerously incompetent.

[noxx98]

Gio’s agent at the Raptors game today. Can’t tell if there’s a bald man sitting next to him…

[barticusz]

Giovinco has an Instagram post saying he’s “ back home”. Likes from various TFC players.

it sounds as if this deal is about to be done. If he’s coming in on a Bradley salary I don’t have any issues but we need much more than a 34 yr old Seba right now.

[OgtheDim]

Can't make that deal official until the new allocation order comes out in January & then will have to announce what/who is going to Carolina as compensation first.

All this could be worked out but the league ain't gonna allow such a move until then.

&

To be blunt, using up our 3rd in line allocation order placement on Seba is a waste of a good resource.

[jloome]

Can't make that deal official until the new allocation order comes out in January & then will have to announce what/who is going to Carolina as compensation first.

All this could be worked out but the league ain't gonna allow such a move until then.

&

To be blunt, using up our 3rd in line allocation order placement on Seba is a waste of a good resource.

I'll play devil's advocate on this and say Seba still has playing value.

There's an analysis on line of him as an all-around attacker over the last few years at Al Hilal, and his average of three goals and four assists per 20 games was efficiently done.

Now, Saudi defense probably ain't the hottest, but given his actual playing time there, which was divided among a large squad, he contributed continually.

"The former MLS star Sebastian Giovinco (34, Italy) of Al Hilal stands out as a great creator. His 0.5 xA per 90 are unrivalled and he also ranks very well in key passes with 1.05 per 90. "

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/data-analysis/finding-the-best-offensive-players-in-asia-data-analysis-statistics

Having said all that, 16 goals and 19 assists in 83 games is less than half the productivity he showed as a DP here. So very much a role player, not a full-time first teamer. Piatti light, I'd say (and I'm still puzzled why we gave up Pablo Piatto on a TAM deal, an above-average producer).

[MightyDM]

I'll play devil's advocate on this and say Seba still has playing value.

There's an analysis on line of him as an all-around attacker over the last few years at Al Hilal, and his average of three goals and four assists per 20 games was efficiently done.

Now, Saudi defense probably ain't the hottest, but given his actual playing time there, which was divided among a large squad, he contributed continually.

"The former MLS star Sebastian Giovinco (34, Italy) of Al Hilal stands out as a great creator. His 0.5 xA per 90 are unrivalled and he also ranks very well in key passes with 1.05 per 90. "

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/data-analysis/finding-the-best-offensive-players-in-asia-data-analysis-statistics

Having said all that, 16 goals and 19 assists in 83 games is less than half the productivity he showed as a DP here. So very much a role player, not a full-time first teamer. Piatti light, I'd say (and I'm still puzzled why we gave up Pablo Piatto on a TAM deal, an above-average producer).



Why did we give up Pablo Piatti?

[noxx98]

Why did we give up Pablo Piatti?
He was on $1.5M and we wanted to pay him less. We wanted to bring in a higher end DP (Soteldo in this case) and didn’t have enough TAM/GAM remaining to keep Piatti on a similar level salary as he was on in 2020. He was able to return to Spain and I imagine getting more than we could offer.

[Auzzy]

Gio back, eh?

We don't yet know how they'll get out of Altidore's contract.

Bradley will still want to be captain under his dad.

I thought we need new fitness guys, and a sports psychologist, but our needs may have changed. Does anyone know a good sports geriatrician?

[Gringo Starr]

I’m guessing Gio coming back means they will keep Jozy

[noxx98]

I’m in Edmonton and am staying at the same hotel as a number of reporters. Overhead two this morning say “even if he does, will Bill want to hold onto him?” Interpret that how you will, I have no further context.

[MightyDM]

He was on $1.5M and we wanted to pay him less. We wanted to bring in a higher end DP (Soteldo in this case) and didn’t have enough TAM/GAM remaining to keep Piatti on a similar level salary as he was on in 2020. He was able to return to Spain and I imagine getting more than we could offer.

He was likely a better fit than Soteldo even if not being the player Soteldo is and might be.

[MightyDM]

I’m in Edmonton and am staying at the same hotel as a number of reporters. Overhead two this morning say “even if he does, will Bill want to hold onto him?” Interpret that how you will, I have no further context.

Wins? Apologizes? Passes a fitness test? Completes a major signing?????

[Oldtimer]

I thought we need new fitness guys, and a sports psychologist, but our needs may have changed. Does anyone know a good sports geriatrician?

No joke, I'd look in Italy, apparently there is some expertise there in how to keep older players fit.

[noxx98]

He was likely a better fit than Soteldo even if not being the player Soteldo is and might be.
Agreed. Soteldo is probably a higher end DP with better sell on potential, but Piatti probably a better fit for TFC.


Wins? Apologizes? Passes a fitness test? Completes a major signing?????
The options are endless. Could even be about their fantasy football league!

[jloome]

I’m in Edmonton and am staying at the same hotel as a number of reporters. Overhead two this morning say “even if he does, will Bill want to hold onto him?” Interpret that how you will, I have no further context.

Omar's on an option year, right? Might be whether he re-signs.

[SirBobSaget]

I visit this thread hoping for news that Manning and Curtis are gone. Until then I don't expect any positive roster moves. We have spun back into the Mariner, Cochrane, Anselmi dark days of complete ineptitude. Until they are all gone there's no hope.

[Bushmancan]

I visit this thread hoping for news that Manning and Curtis are gone. Until then I don't expect any positive roster moves. We have spun back into the Mariner, Cochrane, Anselmi dark days of complete ineptitude. Until they are all gone there's no hope.

Agreed, was going to go to Montreal hoping Curtis was gone but with this carefree everything is fine mode, we are getting Insigne, Gio’s back etc. They aren’t getting my money and time. This was the single worst year of any Toronto sports team I have seen and I have seen plenty of bad ones.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I visit this thread hoping for news that Manning and Curtis are gone. Until then I don't expect any positive roster moves. We have spun back into the Mariner, Cochrane, Anselmi dark days of complete ineptitude. Until they are all gone there's no hope.


WOW... it is sad, but if you're waiting for BOTH of them to be gone, you should come back to this thread just a year from now.
Curtis may be or may be not gone in the next 4 weeks or so, but being a bettor guy, I would put everything I own plus I would even take out a massive loan to wager on that Manning will be still here in April 2022. Even if TFC will lose the Voyageurs final.

[Richard]

This team is dying for a new defense yet were going after ageing wingers. Clowns.

[RealG-TFC]

He was likely a better fit than Soteldo even if not being the player Soteldo is and might be.

Definitely gave off the impression of being a bit more focused and/or humble.

[Ultra & Proud]

This team is dying for a new defense yet were going after ageing wingers. Clowns.
Defenders don't sell season's memberships. That's the most important thing now.

[Joe Kool]

Defenders don't sell season's memberships. That's the most important thing now.

Neither does finishing at the bottom of the table though....

[jabbronies]

Curtis's covid excuses don't hold any weight when you consider Montreal and Vancouver were both in the same boat and Vancouver made the playoffs, Montreal barely missed and we weren't even close

You gotta stop using MTL and VAN as examples of good management. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[Ultra & Proud]

Neither does finishing at the bottom of the table though....
No but at this point of the season it's about selling hope and "entertainment". Signings to attract a certain ethnic group is also a solid technique that they're banking on.

Rumored so far in this demographic have been Insigne at forward & Chelini at defense. Which would sell more memberships? Which will cause the media stir that they long for? That's all they care about for now and showing ambition will help sell the hope that next year we'll right the ship and get back to having some success.

[Areathrasher]

No but at this point of the season it's about selling hope and "entertainment". Signings to attract a certain ethnic group is also a solid technique that they're banking on.

Rumored so far in this demographic have been Insigne at forward & Chelini at defense. Which would sell more memberships? Which will cause the media stir that they long for? That's all they care about for now and showing ambition will help sell the hope that next year we'll right the ship and get back to having some success.

Chiellini has been rumored?

[Joe Kool]

No but at this point of the season it's about selling hope and "entertainment". Signings to attract a certain ethnic group is also a solid technique that they're banking on.

Rumored so far in this demographic have been Insigne at forward & Chelini at defense. Which would sell more memberships? Which will cause the media stir that they long for? That's all they care about for now and showing ambition will help sell the hope that next year we'll right the ship and get back to having some success.

Yeah I get that and the short sighted view that they could possibly have but you can't outscore a bad defence and any flashy star you bring in to sell shirts won't sell memberships for more than one year if it fails miserably and we end up bottom of the table again. They need to play the long game here if they want to be successful again and have multiyear success. I am not saying get a DP CB or anything but we can't have another year where our actual contracted and healthy CB like Zavs sits on the bench while Bradley fills in on CB because we have nothing else. As long as they don't ignore our defence I say go ahead with whatever flash they want to bring in to sell memberships as long as they are not toxic to the rest of the team. I watch Napoli every week for years and I have to say I can't see Insigne being happy here though.

[Ultra & Proud]

I watch Napoli every week for years and I have to say I can't see Insigne being happy here though.

I doubt he would be either. Another Solteldo. I personally don't want Insigne, I would rather us target younger players who will buy in better but they don't sell tickets.

As for the defense:

I am sure Curtis is thinking "No worries Billy, you get the star DP and I will get us the defenders we need to get us back to the top!"

"2 weeks" pass and nothing is done. Curtis re-signs Zavaleta & Gonzalez and says continuity is important for roster development and the chance to have two current and former international players with experience is better than what was available in the "Covid" market.

[benito]

I think the original Giovinco signing was pretty amazing DP signing that is hard for the club to replicate. He improved the team performance and scored a bunch of goals as well as sold tickets and made the club more marketable.

Many of the MLS DPs don’t succeed in both areas. They either are marketing exercises or improve team performance but not both. He was very special at that time.

[jabbronies]

I think the original Giovinco signing was pretty amazing DP signing that is hard for the club to replicate. He improved the team performance and scored a bunch of goals as well as sold tickets and made the club more marketable.

Many of the MLS DPs don’t succeed in both areas. They either are marketing exercises or improve team performance but not both. He was very special at that time.

I don't think the Pozuelo signing gets enough credit. I think not playing 2020 at home really diminished what this guy did.

[MikeForbes]

If Giovinco is brought in he will be 35 at the start of next season and will not of played a game in over 8 months.

[OgtheDim]

We need to purge all thoughts of what 2017 was from this team.

Don't purge the people as they are now.

Just purge the idea we are getting back to that with any players from that group being now in the form they were then.


Like, seriously, the only guy still with the team who is better now than they were then is Oso.

[JoesphNdo]

I'll wait for the contract details to judge the Gio move. Get him in on a small contract and have him be a bit part player and I like it. TAM or DP and front office have 100% lost their minds and learned nothing from the Jozy deal

[Ultra & Proud]

I'll wait for the contract details to judge the Gio move. Get him in on a small contract and have him be a bit part player and I like it. TAM or DP and front office have 100% lost their minds and learned nothing from the Jozy deal
Gurantee it's at least TAM and not the Osorio level TAM but more the Bradley level TAM.

[MikeForbes]

Gurantee it's at least TAM and not the Osorio level TAM but more the Bradley level TAM.

I would say they are gonna give him Omar's 1.2 million TAM deal.

[ag futbol]

^ yeah, I doubt Giovinco gets off the couch for anything less than a million a year.

The board is really sleep at the switch here. This would be a perfect time to fire Manning and Curtis and find a competent set of managers who would have a good amount of flexibility to make the changes they need for a quick rebuild.

But instead, we’re sticking with a group that really doesn’t show signs of having the vision of doing the right things. This could really set us back.

[Amir.]

Italy finished second in their group so they missed the automatic qualification spot and will now go to the playoffs which is 12 teams with only 3 ultimately qualifying...so its more unlikely than likely that they qualify for the world cup...if anything chances of Insigne joining are now higher

[jloome]

Italy finished second in their group so they missed the automatic qualification spot and will now go to the playoffs which is 12 teams with only 3 ultimately qualifying...so its more unlikely than likely that they qualify for the world cup...if anything chances of Insigne joining are now higher

This one says he's declined to discuss terms with us and is now being eyed by newly-rich Newcastle.

https://insidefutbol.com/2021/11/15/newcastle-united-ready-to-hand-attacker-lucrative-contract-player-rejects-mls-side/537121/

[portu]

This one says he's declined to discuss terms with us and is now being eyed by newly-rich Newcastle.

https://insidefutbol.com/2021/11/15/newcastle-united-ready-to-hand-attacker-lucrative-contract-player-rejects-mls-side/537121/
This is literally Borré 2.0

[MightyDM]

This one says he's declined to discuss terms with us and is now being eyed by newly-rich Newcastle.

https://insidefutbol.com/2021/11/15/newcastle-united-ready-to-hand-attacker-lucrative-contract-player-rejects-mls-side/537121/

Has the ring of truth, that one.

[Ultra & Proud]

The board is really sleep at the switch here. This would be a perfect time to fire Manning and Curtis and find a competent set of managers who would have a good amount of flexibility to make the changes they need for a quick rebuild.

Actually it would be pretty stupid for them to do it with a final to play this weekend. Next week is a different story.

[Bushmancan]

Has the ring of truth, that one.

100% Newcastle is going to do whatever it can to stay up.

[Areathrasher]

Insigne wont happen. Have look at someone mid 20's stapled to Milan, Inter or Juve's bench...

[MikeForbes]

Once Newcastle gets relegated we can swoop in and claim Insigne. ;)

[Richard]

Anything close to a million for Gio is ludicrous. Absolutely bonkers. $100K player at most, I don't care what he sells off the pitch, he is washed up and as someone said will not have played for 8 months at the age of 35.

We're right back in the dark ages like with Mo.

[Canary10]

Has the ring of truth, that one.

Yeah I agree. I could actually see Newcastle massively overpaying to get him in in January. Although they really aren't bad up front. Wilson and Saint-Maximin are pretty decent. They need better defending, but as we know well, defending doesn't sell tickets or intent of new owners.

[Ultra & Proud]

We're right back in the dark ages like with Mo.

This is more like the Anselmi era than Mo. Mo never got players to appease fans or sell tickets. All that happened under Ansemli's watch; the CMNT experiment with Gerba/JDG, the Dutch experiment, Mista. Everything that was done in his era was for selling season's tickets and ramsom packs specifically. We look like that again. Target Italy at all costs to bring the Italian community back on board.

[jabbronies]

This is more like the Anselmi era than Mo. Mo never got players to appease fans or sell tickets. All that happened under Ansemli's watch; the CMNT experiment with Gerba/JDG, the Dutch experiment, Mista. Everything that was done in his era was for selling season's tickets and ramsom packs specifically. We look like that again. Target Italy at all costs to bring the Italian community back on board.

I think it's a good idea to target players from Italy (Serie A). MLS has not had a lot of Serie A players in the league, but more times than not, the ones who have come over have done very well. They seem to understand the style of football much easier than others.

[jabbronies]

If we want international flair for a manager, what about Nesta?
https://football-italia.net/nesta-prefers-mls-over-serie-a/

He's played in MLS and Managed in USL and it sounds like he would be open to coming back to North America
He knows the complications in roster selection. Seems to have an understanding that you can't always just buy your way to a trophy

He hasn't done poorly as a manager. Never been relegated, usually finishing in the upper part of the table, but losing in playoffs.

I'm assuming he has good connections and relations in Italy, so getting a player or two to top off a roster similar to how Vanney did with French players is a strong possibility.

[MikeForbes]

If we want international flair for a manager, what about Nesta?
https://football-italia.net/nesta-prefers-mls-over-serie-a/

He's played in MLS and Managed in USL and it sounds like he would be open to coming back to North America
He knows the complications in roster selection. Seems to have an understanding that you can't always just buy your way to a trophy

He hasn't done poorly as a manager. Never been relegated, usually finishing in the upper part of the table, but losing in playoffs.

I'm assuming he has good connections and relations in Italy, so getting a player or two to top off a roster similar to how Vanney did with French players is a strong possibility.

Nesta does sound like a really good shout.

[BritSOL]

Nesta does sound like a really good shout.

For a moment, I was confusing Nesta with Mista!!!

[portu]

Kamal Miller is what Ali and Bill think Mavinga still is

[ensco]

Amusing.

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1460805116915814408?s=21

[MikeForbes]

Kamal Miller is what Ali and Bill think Mavinga still is

Was very obtainable in the offseason too. Pains me to say that Montreal has been making shrewd moves lately.

[Areathrasher]

Was very obtainable in the offseason too. Pains me to say that Montreal has been making shrewd moves lately.


They have a proper GM in Renard

[portu]

Amusing.

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1460805116915814408?s=21
"Tata? Who's that?", Bill Manning said as he hurriedly called his pal Ali to let him know that the paperwork on Ben Olsen had just cleared legal.

[Phil744]

Go and get Eustaquio now to replace Bradley in the mid and if need be to free up more cap then trade Delgado.

[jabbronies]

Go and get Eustaquio now to replace Bradley in the mid and if need be to free up more cap then trade Delgado.

I think his next move will be to a bigger club in Portugal. Maybe somewhere else

But yes, this is the type of player we desperately need in our midfield.

[MightyDM]

Go and get Eustaquio now to replace Bradley in the mid and if need be to free up more cap then trade Delgado.

He’s at an age and at a skill level that we aren’t getting a look in. Oso was our best midfielder this year and he’s not at Eustaquios level.

[Ultra & Proud]

He’s at an age and at a skill level that we aren’t getting a look in. Oso was our best midfielder this year and he’s not at Eustaquios level.
I wouldn't want him to come here either. He should move onward up the chain in Europe and get to his best. Don't settle for whatever money and stuff to come to MLS yet.

[MikeForbes]

Soteldo has been posting some weird cryptic stuff on Instagram and TFC seems like they are operating with the idea of having an open DP spot.

[Ultra & Proud]

Soteldo has been posting some weird cryptic stuff on Instagram and TFC seems like they are operating with the idea of having an open DP spot.
They're kind of operating like they have lots of open DP spots.

Still wouldn't be surprised to see the three of the current DPs out and let Bradley (or whoever) pick 3 new ones.

[ensco]

We have literally never had a ball delivered on a FK like the one Eustaquio delivered to Larin last night. Not once.

[Bushmancan]

To be honest, until this year I can't even remember when we crossed the ball.

[rydermike]

Soteldo has been posting some weird cryptic stuff on Instagram and TFC seems like they are operating with the idea of having an open DP spot.

Weird cryptic stuff like what?

[Ultra & Proud]

We have literally never had a ball delivered on a FK like the one Eustaquio delivered to Larin last night. Not once.
Even if we did most of our current players just stand around static and don't makes runs in the box so it wouldn't matter anyway.

[MikeForbes]

Weird cryptic stuff like what?

It could be stuff lost via Google translate but the general idea is that it is okay to go back to where you belong.

[ag futbol]

We have literally never had a ball delivered on a FK like the one Eustaquio delivered to Larin last night. Not once.
Incredible player and hugely underrated, deserving of a bigger club, and even goes slightly under the radar at the nats level. If not for his contribution, I doubt we’d be in a position to qualify right now.

[TheGoodson]

So I heard somethings over the weekend that I want share about our club:

Curtis and especially Manning aren’t going anywhere
Bob Bradley is pretty much a done deal…. Just waiting to announce it
Insigne got offered stupid money… insane money for an mls team to offer. The issue is we want him at the end of his contract and he wants to come after the World Cup for obvious reasons
Destro and Cristicio from Genoa are signed, they were here the last international break to tour the facilities
the dressing room is a mess.. very fractured and dysfunctional. New players and the old guard are both part of the problems

[MightyDM]

We have literally never had a ball delivered on a FK like the one Eustaquio delivered to Larin last night. Not once.

Maybe. But we did have Seba - Jozy 2016 “don’t change the play “

[ensco]

Maybe. But we did have Seba - Jozy 2016 “don’t change the play “

Yeah true. Seba had that and he and Vazquez must have had one or two others. But man, it seems rare....

[MightyDM]

So I heard somethings over the weekend that I want share about our club:

Curtis and especially Manning aren’t going anywhere
Bob Bradley is pretty much a done deal…. Just waiting to announce it
Insigne got offered stupid money… insane money for an mls team to offer. The issue is we want him at the end of his contract and he wants to come after the World Cup for obvious reasons
Destro and Cristicio from Genoa are signed, they were here the last international break to tour the facilities
the dressing room is a mess.. very fractured and dysfunctional. New players and the old guard are both part of the problems

Interesting. I guess the first test of your source will be Bob Bradley.

Not entirely sure the Board of MLSE is particularly competent. So not a total surprise if Manning stays, dispute inheriting a team on the up and riding it all the way to the bottom. You would think they noticed the Curtis / Chris Armas debacle. And the defence.