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View Full Version : MLS Match Day 20 - TFC @ ATL Wednesday August 18 7:08pm - I Would Keep Myself



OgtheDim
08-15-2021, 05:42 PM
I Would Find Away



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHCfZTRGiI


********

Have at It People

MikeForbes
08-15-2021, 05:58 PM
Atlanta has won two in a row. Barco has looked good and Josef looks might be back to being Josef. This one could be trouble.

Joe Kool
08-16-2021, 10:24 AM
I am looking at this like 2018 again. Our team is riddled with injuries and whatnot and despite having a good lineup on paper when looking at full roster we can't string anything significant together or keep a consistent starting XI. I have zero expectations for any game. Just want to see the guys putting in a shift each game whoever's name is called. FO needs to be figuring it out and planning now for 2022. That is all.

Omar
08-16-2021, 02:03 PM
I am looking at this like 2018 again. Our team is riddled with injuries and whatnot and despite having a good lineup on paper when looking at full roster we can't string anything significant together or keep a consistent starting XI. I have zero expectations for any game. Just want to see the guys putting in a shift each game whoever's name is called. FO needs to be figuring it out and planning now for 2022. That is all.

This. Sadly, at this stage, the team's lacking in options for rotations with so many injuries/other issues. I'm hoping that the players can come out of the match with no injuries no matter the result. TFC badly needs the international break to rest and recuperate + get a mental reset.

jloome
08-16-2021, 03:06 PM
This. Sadly, at this stage, the team's lacking in options for rotations with so many injuries/other issues. I'm hoping that the players can come out of the match with no injuries no matter the result. TFC badly needs the international break to rest and recuperate + get a mental reset.

And yet we have a bunch of prospects who were signed to the first team, and therefore are getting at least MLS minimum, yet aren't making the bench.

It's almost as if Curtis wanted the illusion of a youth development program. Otherwise, surely three-year first team member Julian Dunn would be stepping right in?

Ultra & Proud
08-16-2021, 03:32 PM
It's almost as if Curtis wanted the illusion of a youth development program. Otherwise, surely three-year first team member Julian Dunn would be stepping right in?

Or Curtis wanted to force it on the manager and that's why more young guys got time with Armas (his pal) but less with Perez (a guy who wants the full time job). Also, Curtis may have zero power now so he can't force anything on anyone.

portu
08-16-2021, 10:24 PM
Or Curtis wanted to force it on the manager and that's why more young guys got time with Armas (his pal) but less with Perez (a guy who wants the full time job). Also, Curtis may have zero power now so he can't force anything on anyone.
The major issue in this respect has always been deferring to seniority despite form. Perez addresses this I feel after subbing both Jozy and Bradley. Last year Jozy started over Ayo in our playoff match and I thought that was the straight up most ridiculous thing ever.

Omar
08-17-2021, 11:04 AM
And yet we have a bunch of prospects who were signed to the first team, and therefore are getting at least MLS minimum, yet aren't making the bench.

It's almost as if Curtis wanted the illusion of a youth development program. Otherwise, surely three-year first team member Julian Dunn would be stepping right in?

I feel like TFC should just commit to the long-term approach and stop trying to take a one-match approach. Here's hoping we see more young players on the field against ATL, but I don't have my hopes up. Javier Perez has always chosen players who are ready for first-team football (including younger players like Achara and Priso) rather than young players who might still be getting used to first-team football (like Nelson, Marshall-Rutty, Perruzza, etc.).

Now, though, he doesn't have much of a choice; he has to lean on those guys. Let's see how they fare given that no one's expecting us to get any points.

MikeForbes
08-17-2021, 11:26 AM
I can't find the quote, but Perez has stated he doesn't think Nelson is ready for first team minutes but said that JMR was ready to break into the team.

Ultra & Proud
08-17-2021, 12:02 PM
I can't find the quote, but Perez has stated he doesn't think Nelson is ready for first team minutes but said that JMR was ready to break into the team.
I would agree with him on this. I would like to hear his opinion on Romero and Dunn and where they stand. Especially Dunn.

MikeForbes
08-17-2021, 12:44 PM
I would agree with him on this. I would like to hear his opinion on Romero and Dunn and where they stand. Especially Dunn.

Rocco is off on loan so I think we know the answer on that one. I don't have the faintest idea on Dunn. It is time to see what we have in him though. Can he be a 3 or 4 on the CB depth chart next year? We need to know.

Kamp Berg
08-17-2021, 02:02 PM
Rocco is off on loan so I think we know the answer on that one. I don't have the faintest idea on Dunn. It is time to see what we have in him though. Can he be a 3 on 4 on the CB depth chart next year? We need to know.

The problem with playing the young CBs right now is that there is no one there to mentor them. All of the veteran CBs on the team have sucked pretty bad this year, including Mavinga, who I’ve always thought as one of the best CBs in the league. Plus Bono couldn’t lead a backline if his life depended on it.

MikeForbes
08-17-2021, 02:09 PM
The problem with playing the young CBs right now is that there is no one there to mentor them. All of the veteran CBs on the team have sucked pretty bad this year, including Mavinga, who I’ve always thought as one of the best CBs in the league. Plus Bono couldn’t lead a backline if his life depended on it.

I think guys like Omar and Zavs could help him along. You don't gotta be an incredible players to teach someone something.

OgtheDim
08-17-2021, 05:40 PM
FWIW, team flying down this evening


https://twitter.com/SportsAviation/status/1427751486486949893



My dog is still not impressed

https://i.imgur.com/uZTNSrc.jpg

Red CB Toronto
08-17-2021, 05:52 PM
Lets them wake up and be ready for game day nice and fresh. I assume they are coming home between games, flying back after the match. Back down to Miami/FT. L on Sat.


FWIW, team flying down this evening


https://twitter.com/SportsAviation/status/1427751486486949893





My dog is still not impressed

https://i.imgur.com/uZTNSrc.jpg

reggie
08-17-2021, 06:01 PM
A 3 nil loss:facepalm:

Kamp Berg
08-17-2021, 07:27 PM
I think guys like Omar and Zavs could help him along. You don't gotta be an incredible players to teach someone something.

I’m sure they could teach something in training but I wouldn’t trust OG or Zavs to impress anything on the field except for bad habits.

Bushmancan
08-18-2021, 07:26 AM
This is the season… if it isn’t gone already. I thought we were better than NER (PRO were pathetic) if they call the Red or even Yellow on Bou, I dont think that goal happens. Even more interesting is that I have heard crickets on Ali criticizing the league. It was Perez and good for him. #aliout

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 10:48 AM
This is the season… if it isn’t gone already. I thought we were better than NER (PRO were pathetic) if they call the Red or even Yellow on Bou, I dont think that goal happens. Even more interesting is that I have heard crickets on Ali criticizing the league. It was Perez and good for him. #aliout

What did Perez say? Didn’t see that.

Bushmancan
08-18-2021, 11:57 AM
He was more complaining about playing through the obvious offside https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/tfc-coach-javier-perez-angry-because-ralph-prisos-injury-could-have-been-avoided

But at least someone spoke up. Ali = “crickets”

Omar
08-18-2021, 12:20 PM
I can't find the quote, but Perez has stated he doesn't think Nelson is ready for first team minutes but said that JMR was ready to break into the team.

That sounds about right. As good as Nelson has been for TFC II, he's still quite raw, whilst JMR is more mature with his performances.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 12:24 PM
He was more complaining about playing through the obvious offside https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/tfc-coach-javier-perez-angry-because-ralph-prisos-injury-could-have-been-avoided

But at least someone spoke up. Ali = “crickets”

Thanks. Totally agree with him, it is verging on the ridiculous. VAR was meant to correct obvious ( and really important) errors, not change how the game. is played They are trying for a standard of perfection in a game that isn't perfect and shouldn't strive to be. Good to see it being dialed back in the UK

Richard
08-18-2021, 12:29 PM
Glad that Perez called it out. Need more leadership like this from upper management.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 12:40 PM
Get ready for the Bradley show

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1428038238225195012

Ultra & Proud
08-18-2021, 02:29 PM
Get ready for the Bradley show

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1428038238225195012
If only we had somebody in charge of the team to question the fitness department on what's going on with all the training injuries.

noxx98
08-18-2021, 05:30 PM
https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1428118179054825473?s=21
Well this will be interesting…

Richard
08-18-2021, 05:38 PM
We got Delgado, Poz, Soteldo, Bono on the bench. :noidea:

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 05:41 PM
This is the sort of rotation most MLS teams do during heavy spells, especially with 2 games away from home & the second one in Miami in August.

That and its all about 2022 now.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 05:42 PM
Perez has a backbone. And I like the balance of youth, speed and experience in this lineup. For every Bradley there is a Shaff and for every Zavaleta an Auro. Really interesting.

reggie
08-18-2021, 05:45 PM
A 3 nil loss:facepalm:

wait wait wait...i wanna change this to a 4 nil loss.jus play some kids the rest of the year.

Slick
08-18-2021, 05:51 PM
Finally, Q is starting.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 06:12 PM
This is the sort of rotation most MLS teams do during heavy spells, especially with 2 games away from home & the second one in Miami in August.

That and its all about 2022 now.
Completely agree. Looking at some of the other top teams in the league, it feels like our depth has not really kept pace. We need to improve in the area

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:21 PM
Injury news coming via TSN is not good in more ways then one.

Omar
08-18-2021, 06:21 PM
I don't mind the lineup, honestly. This will be a tough, lengthy road trip, and we'll need as much rotation as possible. I'm happy to see Auro back in the starting XI and Okello + Shaffelburg get more minutes.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 06:23 PM
Shit….Caldwell

Thomas
08-18-2021, 06:34 PM
OK so far

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:34 PM
If we are going to have any joy this half, it will be with Laryea & Osorio.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 06:37 PM
Hopefully Q too

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:38 PM
Shit….Caldwell

what did he say? I missed the first 5 minutes

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 06:38 PM
What happened there? Westberg didn’t even move

Omar
08-18-2021, 06:38 PM
Okello's looking better than I thought he would. Hopefully he can last for the whole match. He tends to tire out pretty easily in the 2nd half.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:39 PM
FFS. Route one and a shot. come on.

benito
08-18-2021, 06:40 PM
What happened there? Westberg didn’t even move

big deflection off of zavaleta’s foot.

Omar
08-18-2021, 06:40 PM
What happened there? Westberg didn’t even move

The ball was deflected, and it looped in. It's an unlucky goal and something we have to accept.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 06:41 PM
The ball was deflected, and it looped in. It's an unlucky goal and something we have to accept.
True. Although I actually agree with Caldwell for once. Zavaleta mismanaged that play.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:41 PM
Balls down the middle of the park kill us every game - way more then other teams experience.

Biggest news here is the news about Jozy might having his season done & Priso being something way worse then thought.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 06:43 PM
The ball was deflected, and it looped in. It's an unlucky goal and something we have to accept.

It’s a reason though why I wish TFC would take way more shots.

We’ve had some decent chances.

portu
08-18-2021, 06:44 PM
If this line up doesn’t say we’ve given up on the season I’m not sure what does.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:45 PM
True. Although I actually agree with Caldwell for once. Zavaleta mismanaged that play.

Agreed

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:45 PM
Balls down the middle of the park kill us every game - way more then other teams experience.

Biggest news here is the news about Jozy might having his season done & Priso being something way worse then thought.


Both of these things are true. i dont understand the first. When we play well the opponent just goes route one and we get shredded.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:46 PM
Balls down the middle of the park kill us every game - way more then other teams experience.

Biggest news here is the news about Jozy might having his season done & Priso being something way worse then thought.

News re Priso but no surpriseif you watched the play he was hurt and the stop on his achilles / ankle earlier

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:46 PM
Mullins was offside there if it was squared quicker - shot was the right choice

notthesun
08-18-2021, 06:47 PM
If this line up doesn’t say we’ve given up on the season I’m not sure what does.

We should be giving up at this point so I've got no problem playing a bunch of kids every few games. Wish Perruzza started too, hope he gets in the 2nd half.

Omar
08-18-2021, 06:47 PM
It’s a reason though why I wish TFC would take way more shots.

We’ve had some decent chances.

Absolutely. We're trying to Arsenal it in on too many occasions. More shots wouldn't be so bad. It'd keep the back line in check and force them to worry about shots on goal.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:48 PM
There midfield is pretty porous. When we play them in 2022, we should shred them.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 06:48 PM
Love Okello’s play but I have this desire to see that kid use all of his physicality and just wreck people in the middle of the park.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:49 PM
Americans still booing Michael Bradley after what he has given for his country is disgusting. Says alot about America right now.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 06:49 PM
Shit….Caldwell


what did he say? I missed the first 5 minutes

Caldwell was right about Zavaleta on the goal. However Zav was also way too alone on that play so I can understand why he was concerned about overcommitting & getting too close.

But some examples from this game: he overuses some terms that are essentially just mumbo jumbo, like “quality.” Also made a comparison between Priso & Okello earlier that just made me cringe.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 06:50 PM
If this line up doesn’t say we’ve given up on the season I’m not sure what does.

I dont agree. We had to rotate and if we did the lineup had to be balanced. It is and we are doing fine. Need to do better but doing fine.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 06:51 PM
Americans still booing Michael Bradley after what he has given for his country is disgusting. Says alot about America right now.
There is no bigger gap in world soccer than the one between what USMNT fans think they are vs. what the team actually is.

jloome
08-18-2021, 06:53 PM
Straight yellow there shoudlve Been obvious

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 06:55 PM
There is no bigger gap in world soccer than the one between what USMNT fans think they are vs. what the team actually is.


Most of their soccer culture has been focused on "see this guy is playing in Europe" discussion on bigsoccer that have morphed into "see this guy is playing in the Bundesliga" on twitter.

Quality of play though is sometimes as bad as that Laryea miss.

jloome
08-18-2021, 06:57 PM
There is no bigger gap in world soccer than the one between what USMNT fans think they are vs. what the team actually is.
The manner in which they lucked their way to a Gold Cup was pretty amazing. Outplayed by Canada, Qatar and Mexico, and yet…

Omar
08-18-2021, 06:57 PM
This is probably the best 1st half that TFC have had in a while. It's a shame that Atlanta got their fortunate lead. Despite the rotations, the fresher legs have helped big time.

portu
08-18-2021, 06:57 PM
I dont agree. We had to rotate and if we did the lineup had to be balanced. It is and we are doing fine. Need to do better but doing fine.
We can’t exactly afford to rotate with where we are at the moment

portu
08-18-2021, 06:58 PM
Mullins was offside there if it was squared quicker - shot was the right choice
Also would have been played onto his weak foot facing away from goal

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:00 PM
Neither team is particularly tight or impressive. We’re doing alright. Usual problem of no real goal threat.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:01 PM
Can we take that giant god damn GE appliances banner down. Screw off with that…

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 07:01 PM
We can’t exactly afford to rotate with where we are at the moment


Which is why I agree with this season really being done. I think that decision was made before the NER game.


*******

Westberg's distribution is so good.

Slick
08-18-2021, 07:02 PM
Hate to say it, but Shaff has looked more dangerous in terms of delivering balls in the box than Soteldo has over the last couple of games.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:03 PM
Which is why I agree with this season really being done. I think that decision was made before the NER game.


*******

Westberg's distribution is so good.
Fair play

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 07:03 PM
Okello is not giving his teammates an outlet.

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:04 PM
Hate to say it, but Shaff has looked more dangerous in terms of delivering balls in the box than Soteldo has over the last couple of games.

Soteldo's a right-footed player on the left, and his only move there is to check back when he's in the final third. Shaffelburg can rely more on beating his man for pace and getting enough space for a cross. Soteldo would benefit from having more passing options and runners to drag defenders away, but he often has to beat two defenders on his own.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:04 PM
Hate to say it, but Shaff has looked more dangerous in terms of delivering balls in the box than Soteldo has over the last couple of games.
Soteldo suffering from “doing too much syndrome”. So desperate to drag this team to wins he’s turned to quantity over quality.

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:05 PM
Okello is not giving his teammates an outlet.

did he have another growth spurt? I swear he looks six ten or something.

surely at some point they have to decide he should be a ball-playing Center half.

reggie
08-18-2021, 07:08 PM
Zava is good for a goal a game

portu
08-18-2021, 07:08 PM
did he have another growth spurt? I swear he looks six ten or something.

surely at some point they have to decide he should be a ball-playing Center half.
I think he’s an attacking midfielder. He’s so smooth on the ball, deceptively quick because of the long strides. He’s my favourite prospect at the club.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:10 PM
We can’t exactly afford to rotate with where we are at the moment

We don't have a choice. Poz has been struggling with injuries and needs rest. Soteldo maybe but who else are you going to play? Bradely / Okello likely more effective against Martinez than Bradley / Delgado. And Shaff is doing well on the left; should have caused them a red.

Yohan
08-18-2021, 07:10 PM
did he have another growth spurt? I swear he looks six ten or something.

surely at some point they have to decide he should be a ball-playing Center half.
well, he needs to learn positioning if he's going to ever be a CB

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:11 PM
Kilbane is great at halftime but we are under using his talents and propping up the brain-dead oaf

benito
08-18-2021, 07:15 PM
Kilbane is great at halftime but we are under using his talents and propping up the brain-dead oaf

kilbane is really good at breaking down plays and isn’t afraid to criticize tfc.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 07:19 PM
Soteldo's a right-footed player on the left, and his only move there is to check back when he's in the final third. Shaffelburg can rely more on beating his man for pace and getting enough space for a cross. Soteldo would benefit from having more passing options and runners to drag defenders away, but he often has to beat two defenders on his own.

Soteldo is theoretically very good with both feet. You can see that in his highlights from before he came to TFC. As Portu wrote, he often just tries to do too much. Starting him on the bench might be a bit of a message. But it’s also a matter of other players supporting Soteldo. Sometimes others get mesmerized and watch him too much rather than getting open.

Atlanta does a good job of pressing in a spread-out fashion w/o leaving major gaps. TFC often overcommits by pressing with multiple players in one area, but if you get past them other areas are way too open.

Separate issue: Watch how quickly Atlanta gets open on their own throw-ins. With TFC there’s too many players standing around & watching. It slows the game down, and they often lose possession.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:21 PM
Also Kilbane points out the turf issue

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:23 PM
did he have another growth spurt? I swear he looks six ten or something.

surely at some point they have to decide he should be a ball-playing Center half.
Nah, he’s too rangy to be sitting back there.

Midfield should be his place. They just need to define his role a bit more and turn up his aggression.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 07:27 PM
Pin point kick from Q to Shaff

benito
08-18-2021, 07:27 PM
Hockey line change by Perez.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 07:28 PM
Glad Zavs is off

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:29 PM
oso hurt. Looks like hi sankle got stuck in the turf. well, foot.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:29 PM
Morrow at centre back might be a move

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:30 PM
Guzan shows what distribution can do - not that time, but in general. gives a control to the club

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 07:31 PM
Straight yellow there shoudlve Been obvious

A couple of missed yellows by now. Refs seem fine with TFC getting seriously injured. Then a bullshit call for nothing after our corner kick.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:31 PM
Gad to see Morrow at CB. he might be a solution there.

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:31 PM
Soteldo is theoretically very good with both feet. You can see that in his highlights from before he came to TFC. As Portu wrote, he often just tries to do too much. Starting him on the bench might be a bit of a message. But it’s also a matter of other players supporting Soteldo. Sometimes others get mesmerized and watch him too much rather than getting open.

Atlanta does a good job of pressing in a spread-out fashion w/o leaving major gaps. TFC often overcommits by pressing with multiple players in one area, but if you get past them other areas are way too open.

Separate issue: Watch how quickly Atlanta gets open on their own throw-ins. With TFC there’s too many players standing around & watching. It slows the game down, and they often lose possession.

Fair enough. In that case, I wish I can see more of his left foot, though from what I've read about him, he really likes to cut inside from the left. Agree on the latter point about him, though; he tries way too hard and could be better off keeping things simpler. That'd make him more unpredictable, too.

The point about the throw-ins just proves how disjointed we are. It's something I've noticed every since Javier Perez started coaching us. The players appear to be figuring things out on their own for the most part, which could explain not only the slower transitions but the extra hesitations from the players.

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:33 PM
Morrow at CB worries me as he's not that tall and might get beaten in the air quite often. He's better off as a man-marker and dealing with 1-on-1 situations. Given that he's not too athletic, playing as a CB in a back 4 is asking for trouble. An LCB as a back 3 like in 2017's much better for him.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:33 PM
“A great header”

Come on, it was over the @$&@ bar. Maybe it was a good header for a CB with no skill.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:33 PM
thats a yellow! he kicked the ball!

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:35 PM
Is Alan Kelly drunk? This officiating is awful

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:35 PM
How has TFC not scored yet? At least we're on the up and doing much better attacking-wise after the subs.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:38 PM
That was abhorrent football

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:38 PM
Morrow at CB worries me as he's not that tall and might get beaten in the air quite often. He's better off as a man-marker and dealing with 1-on-1 situations. Given that he's not too athletic, playing as a CB in a back 4 is asking for trouble. An LCB as a back 3 like in 2017's much better for him.

Rank the atleticism of Morrow Zavelaetta and Gonzalez. And the current soccer ability...

notthesun
08-18-2021, 07:39 PM
Sigh... Soteldo should've kept sprinting ahead of Bello, would've forced the last defender to close him down and he could've squared it to an open Laryea. Don't know why he slowed down. Pozuelo should've shot that too once it did get to him.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 07:40 PM
Morrow used to play CB for San Jose. Hopefully he remembers those days, it was long ago.

Fooking shoot Pozuelo OMG!!!

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:40 PM
gotta agree with Caldwell there. What a waste by TFC. Just put the laces through it lad.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 07:41 PM
Okello seems to be playing safe and mostly passing backwards

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:42 PM
Rank the atleticism of Morrow Zavelaetta and Gonzalez. And the current soccer ability...

I see your point, but whilst Morrow offers his own strengths, he also has weaknesses that can be exploited, namely his poor aerial ability, lack of pace (like Gonzalez and Zavaleta), and poor positioning for crosses in the box. He'd be much better if we had a back 3 in this usual setup or if we sat back with a back 4.

A good comparison would be Azpilicueta for Chelsea. No one would dare play him as a CB in a back 4, but as a RCB in a back 3, he's great.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:43 PM
Mullins, one of many players I can’t wait to see go next season

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:45 PM
Love Okello’s skills but he’s a drifter out there. Never quite fully contributing offensively or defensively

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:46 PM
We play so arrogantly. No one ever takes the simple option.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:46 PM
Laryea two very sloppy passes there in a row.

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:47 PM
Soteldo, it must be said, is a double edged sword. He eats up turf and creates dangerous situations but he also makes poor final decisions.

Thomas
08-18-2021, 07:47 PM
Let’s get a goal. Come on!,,

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 07:47 PM
Love Okello’s skills but he’s a drifter out there. Never quite fully contributing offensively or defensively

Really looks good at times, but he often jogs when he needs to sprint.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 07:47 PM
I hate to say it but the vets on this team are doing us no favours. Zero intensity.

I would take a huge hatchet to this roster in the offseason

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:48 PM
I hate to say it but the vets on this team are doing us no favours. Zero intensity.

I would take a huge hatchet to this roster in the offseason
It’s true. There seems to be a lot of ego out there and not much teamwork.

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:50 PM
That attack with Achara sums it up. He's 1-on-1 and making space for a cross, but there's only Laryea available. At that point, why can't TFC have more runners into the box?

jloome
08-18-2021, 07:52 PM
What is Caldwell talking about?!? The kid was anonymous.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 07:52 PM
Every time the ball goes back to our keeper, I flinch.

Then I remember who our keeper is tonight.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 07:52 PM
That attack with Achara sums it up. He's 1-on-1 and making space for a cross, but there's only Laryea available. At that point, why can't TFC have more runners into the box?

I also saw that right after ag futbol’s comment. A couple of TFC players were literally walking in the middle of the field as Achara was all alone up front.

Smokecell
08-18-2021, 07:53 PM
It’s simple - Soteldo and Pozuelo are more of a problem than a solution so long as they insist on playing cute.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 07:53 PM
Laryea two very sloppy passes there in a row.

And a very sloppy offside. Not what he was last year.

Omar
08-18-2021, 07:55 PM
I also saw that right after ag futbol’s comment. A couple of TFC players were literally walking in the middle of the field as Achara was all alone up front.

Much of this season mirrors what we saw in 2018, except in 2018, the team was more stable and had more quality. I think we'll see this same squad perform much better if they're fully fit.

I'm hoping to see a Perruzza appearance in the weekend fixture. Mullins offers little to no goalscoring threat up front.

portu
08-18-2021, 07:57 PM
Someone screen grab at 81:05-15. That photo is an abysmal representation of our season. Disaster.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 08:00 PM
I like Achara's speed & willingness to go for stuff. That & nobody is going to move him off the ball.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 08:01 PM
Is anyone going to trot out the “but we can still technically make playoffs” after this game?

This team isn’t making playoffs. And maybe a third of that is talent but the other two thirds is not caring and looking at the guy next to you to do the job.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 08:03 PM
Allan Kelly - 3 minutes of extra time no matter what happens

Omar
08-18-2021, 08:03 PM
The fact that the score's still 1-0 should give TFC more hope, but for the most part, the players just look less willing to get a result as time passes. I'd have thought that letting go of Armas and coming back to Toronto would give the team a new lease of life until the end of the season, but alas, that isn't the case. Maybe the injuries have killed off the remaining hope, or maybe this team is already looking ahead to next season.

jloome
08-18-2021, 08:04 PM
Why did Delgado even make that pass? He had open field ahead of him. They don’t even think sometimes.

portu
08-18-2021, 08:07 PM
Someone needs to answer for this in more than platitudes. Hint: His name is Bill Manning.

Auzzy
08-18-2021, 08:08 PM
Stop with the stupid effin weak passes Pozuelo!

Man is this frustrating.

So many subs & only 3 minutes extra. But we probably wouldn’t score if we had an extra 30 anyway.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 08:10 PM
Had chances - more then they did truth be told.

Playing on turf is crud

notthesun
08-18-2021, 08:12 PM
Is anyone going to trot out the “but we can still technically make playoffs” after this game?

This team isn’t making playoffs. And maybe a third of that is talent but the other two thirds is not caring and looking at the guy next to you to do the job.

So can we stop playing fucking Mullins and Dwyer? Like hello? Perruzza's been sitting on the bench for like 4 or 5 games now, what the hell, give him some minutes at this point. Why are we starting nobodies when we have a kid with at least some kind of future right there.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 08:13 PM
We play so arrogantly. No one ever takes the simple option.

I think its mentally lazy. A lack of focus and concentration - like that Marky pass in the 90th minute. We are playing just well enough to lose. And that seems to be what the players are settling for - slightly understandable given how much worse it was under Armas. But unacceptable.

SoccMan2
08-18-2021, 08:13 PM
Lol a total disgrace they won a MLS Cup and think they did enough, hopefully, season ticket holders don’t renew , pure garbage. Look at Seattle they haven’t stopped being a top team since they came into the league , when was the last time Seattle didn’t make the playoffs? This is an MLSE thing more than a TFC problem, garbage organization !

jloome
08-18-2021, 08:14 PM
Well,this was pretty dreadful.

Too many chiefs. Not sure what positives they’re talking about.

Richie overplaying or over hitting everything, Poz and Soteldo unable to create space around the box. Bradley played okay but still lacks legs. Okello was ineffective.

Taking off Shaff amd Osorio was a mistake, they were playing pretty well. Zavaleta… I mean, what’s the point? Really? Clearly not good enough for MLS even as depth.

Pozuelo and Soteldo aren’t effective enough on their own as goal threats; Poz has been off all year. Soteldo is a fine winger but that’s all.

Pretty fucking dire boys. Don’t think Perez’s choices did much good Tonight.

with as few scoring threats as we have, I have to question if a flat two upfront creating space for each other might not make more sense. Always trying to serve wide speed through Richie and Soteldo is getting us nowhere.

Yohan
08-18-2021, 08:15 PM
Laryea. Missing that little bit of cutting edge that made him so much more dangerous on attack.

This Atlanta team is basically another version of current TFC. While it's never easy playing away and on turf, but I thought TFC could have had at least a draw

Michael Bradley plays so much better when he's rested.

Soteldo is figured out by the rest of MLS

Achara is a wide forward, not a centre forward. But built like a tank.

I just don't see if Okello has a footy brain.

Q makes TFC so much better with distribution.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 08:23 PM
Is anyone going to trot out the “but we can still technically make playoffs” after this game?

This team isn’t making playoffs. And maybe a third of that is talent but the other two thirds is not caring and looking at the guy next to you to do the job.

This team isn't making the playoffs because it cannot defend the long ball, and because it does not have a goal scorer. It is an unbalanced lineup with far too many midfielders and a strange construction - I love watching Soteldo but why was he the player we brought in this year? We have Osorio Bradley Priso Delgado Okello Pozuelo who are all midfield / possession players; our defence is the league worst and we have one striker (Jozy) and maybe a second (Ayo). Soteldo is essentially a possession midfielder. Strange priority.

This year, sadly, is done. For next year, we need a Drew Moor type and likely another as Mavinga is aging / injury prone now. Midfield OK but will need two starting strikers. Thats a tall ask and one that appears to be beyond this management team.

I like our subs - like Mullins - good for this league. its the starting quality scoring we need and it isnt Poz or Soteldo.

Essentially we will build the team around the two of them. Thats a strange way of building - normally it is through the middle.

MightyDM
08-18-2021, 08:26 PM
Laryea. Missing that little bit of cutting edge that made him so much more dangerous on attack.

This Atlanta team is basically another version of current TFC. While it's never easy playing away and on turf, but I thought TFC could have had at least a draw

Michael Bradley plays so much better when he's rested.

Soteldo is figured out by the rest of MLS

Achara is a wide forward, not a centre forward. But built like a tank.

I just don't see if Okello has a footy brain.

Q makes TFC so much better with distribution.
Yes!

reggie
08-18-2021, 08:31 PM
This team isn't making the playoffs because it cannot defend the long ball, and because it does not have a goal scorer. It is an unbalanced lineup with far too many midfielders and a strange construction - I love watching Soteldo but why was he the player we brought in this year? We have Osorio Bradley Priso Delgado Okello Pozuelo who are all midfield / possession players; our defence is the league worst and we have one striker (Jozy) and maybe a second (Ayo). Soteldo is essentially a possession midfielder. Strange priority.

This year, sadly, is done. For next year, we need a Drew Moor type and likely another as Mavinga is aging / injury prone now. Midfield OK but will need two starting strikers. Thats a tall ask and one that appears to be beyond this management team.

I like our subs - like Mullins - good for this league. its the starting quality scoring we need and it isnt Poz or Soteldo.

Essentially we will build the team around the two of them. Thats a strange way of building - normally it is through the middle.
you lost me at mullins....we have too many mullins he is a warm body,there are 20 better strikers in usl than him.he is a striker with 0 goals this year in mls

bhandsome90
08-18-2021, 08:33 PM
Laryea. Missing that little bit of cutting edge that made him so much more dangerous on attack.

This Atlanta team is basically another version of current TFC. While it's never easy playing away and on turf, but I thought TFC could have had at least a draw

Michael Bradley plays so much better when he's rested.

Soteldo is figured out by the rest of MLS

Achara is a wide forward, not a centre forward. But built like a tank.

I just don't see if Okello has a footy brain.

Q makes TFC so much better with distribution.

Can Achara play opposite Soteldo? Right now the team has no winger on the right and it would give the team width.

ag futbol
08-18-2021, 08:34 PM
This team isn't making the playoffs because it cannot defend the long ball, and because it does not have a goal scorer. It is an unbalanced lineup with far too many midfielders and a strange construction - I love watching Soteldo but why was he the player we brought in this year? We have Osorio Bradley Priso Delgado Okello Pozuelo who are all midfield / possession players; our defence is the league worst and we have one striker (Jozy) and maybe a second (Ayo). Soteldo is essentially a possession midfielder. Strange priority.

I hear you. The roster is missing a lot of pieces getting to the top of the heap is out. But I think we should still be able to show more competitiveness with what we have.

Completely agree on Soltedo. How much better is this team because of that signing? Certainly not at a level that justified the fee and salary, at least so far.

SoccMan2
08-18-2021, 08:46 PM
Soteldo has been a big disappointment not worth the money , dribbles and dribbles but in the end has nothing to show for all his dribbling. A waste of a DP .

Bobo
08-18-2021, 09:03 PM
Is anyone going to trot out the “but we can still technically make playoffs” after this game?

This team isn’t making playoffs. And maybe a third of that is talent but the other two thirds is not caring and looking at the guy next to you to do the job.

I'm more concerned with any potential talent atop the MLS draft, at this point. This team seems more likely to finish last than make the playoffs. Kinda hoping they do, unfortunately. I'll take the No. 2 or No. 3 pick (assuming Charlotte gets No. 1) - or any pick that sees Curtis/Manning pack their bags.

OgtheDim
08-18-2021, 09:39 PM
This team isn't making the playoffs because it cannot defend the long ball, and because it does not have a goal scorer. ....

Yeh, pretty much and also the rest of what you said. Achara was going to be that goal scorer, or Jozy if fit. Defence, made some decisions in 2019 that have not panned out for 2021.

Cap space issues - stuck with this squad until next year.

To me, you get a healthy Achara along with a DP #9 (have to buy out Jozy, its time) & go find 2 decent CB's. What you dump is not the pluggers. Dump Mavinga (yes, its just not workig out anymore) & Gonzalez & Zavs and start that backline anew.



Good points - Okello is young & has some tools that need some work. Richie is dangerous (but is tired). Oso is always a hand full to be played against. Q is good. Our FB's are serviceable. Achara is a good wide forward. 2022 has some ups.

The braintrust made a mistake thinking 2018 was a glitch & reacting to the Seba loss - Jozy contract, etc. They then thought 2019 was a harbinger of future success when really it was a cup run by a bunch of vets. That run & the league run last year hid some serious flaws. This year, 2021, SHOULD have been a transition one, under a new coach able to create change & work with the youngsters & develop the team towards a good 2022-2023. Well,the braintrust bungled that.

Now, we got a decent coach, I think, to build towards 2022. The team doesn't need a complete overhaul - just really 2 areas, the CB's & the #9. The rest of the season is really all about who's going to be doing what next year.

Part of the problem is the pundits & fans of this team have never experienced transitions from success towards the next stage. There is too much scrutiny of the minutae right now & relying upon past TFC events as the lens for what is happening.

What is happening is this team is in flux and teams in flux suk donkey testicles. And they are not easy to read, and they are not going to fit into nice neat boxes of "youth development vs. buying veterans".

And yet...there are glimmers of hope if you are interested in the long term project of supporting this team.

Omar
08-18-2021, 10:08 PM
I'm with Og. This team has potential, some of which we've already seen, and I think this current squad also has the potential to perform better. There are definitely some players who need to move on (Jozy and Zavaleta to name two), but we can also build on top of most of the players who are already with us (Laryea, Osorio, Soteldo, Pozuelo, Akinola, Achara, etc.). Plus, our young players are actually showing a decent bit of promise (including some from TFC II). I think we've seen some glimpses of that potential against Atlanta tonight, and that's giving me some hope for next season and beyond.

reggie
08-18-2021, 10:34 PM
I'm with Og. This team has potential, some of which we've already seen, and I think this current squad also has the potential to perform better. There are definitely some players who need to move on (Jozy and Zavaleta to name two), but we can also build on top of most of the players who are already with us (Laryea, Osorio, Soteldo, Pozuelo, Akinola, Achara, etc.). Plus, our young players are actually showing a decent bit of promise (including some from TFC II). I think we've seen some glimpses of that potential against Atlanta tonight, and that's giving me some hope for next season and beyond.
i agree.3 starters for sure.2 CBs and a #9,and a new gm and coach,i dont want curtis anywhere this club knowing him he will give new contracts to zava and gonzo

leedsandTFC
08-18-2021, 10:38 PM
all in all, a decent performance. freak goal to concede, created far more offensively than atlanta, but still not nearly enough. we look great in between the 18 yard boxes, in other words.

we really lack at CB and ST though, it's so obvious every game. that break with soteldo, laryea and poz, why was mullins 30 yards behind the play?

zavaleta can't play, this guy is costing us games every week now.

we have a real strong core with a lot of potential, especially with akinola and priso coming back, but they really need to be ruthless with some guys.

zavaleta, gonzalez, altidore, dwyer need to go, looks like deleon is going too.

buddies
08-18-2021, 11:00 PM
Some of these results are down to coaching too. We have tons of creators ... Soteldo, Pozuelo, Laryea, Osorio etc. We are swarming around the box quite a bit but we aren't scoring. Whether it's Mullins, Dwyer, Achara or even Jozy or Akinola, too often our creators get the ball down the wing or to the bye line but there's nobody open in the box/ Sometimes there's nobody even in the box. Somebody has to tell whoever is playing as our striker that they have one job. Get open in the box. Poach, get garbage goals. Get open and hit the net when the ball comes to you. With the talent we have supplying our striker he should be told to go stand on the penalty spot ffs and wait for your 20 goals to show up. Nobody is scared of us up front. We couldn't score in a whore house right now and while I'm at it, spots taken up by guys like Mullins or Dwyer have to be used to develop youth in a salary cap world. The young guys need minutes to improve. I can't for the life of me figure out a single situation this year where I'd rather see a zero goal striker like Mullins or Dwyer being called on rather than using their minutes to develop younger forwards like Achara, Perruza or even Nelson. They certainly wouldn't score any less. Unless you have a second tier striker in the mold of a Ricketts who actually came on and scored the odd goal for us when he played here ... those minutes have to be better spent on development.

Joe Kool
08-19-2021, 08:33 AM
I can't for the life of me figure out a single situation this year where I'd rather see a zero goal striker like Mullins or Dwyer being called on rather than using their minutes to develop younger forwards like Achara, Perruza or even Nelson.

This bothers me for sure. I would rather see a young gun in there who would run just as much or more and maybe even surprise us but also develop. Why did we even sign Dwyer when we had Mullins already on the roster to go run around out there late in the game if that is what they needed? Now we have two guys that do that and are not dangerous most times. I would still take Mullins over Dwyer. Dwyer signing is still puzzling me.

MightyDM
08-19-2021, 09:03 AM
Unfortunately strikers cannot make runs off Soteldo because his service is too unpredictable. So the only way we can score is multiple excellent passes and without a natural striker on the pitch we are deficient.

Prof
08-19-2021, 09:19 AM
We came in 2nd place in the league last year with basically the same squad. What is the difference. Not re signing Pablo Piatti. He was the one that made Pozzuello have the MVP season he had. As skilled as Solteldo is he is not clinical in his scoring or passing in the box. Piatti was. We played our best soccer last year when the midfield was Piatti, Pozuello, Degado and Osorio. Also, why is Mavinga missing so many games to personal reasons??

ag futbol
08-19-2021, 09:40 AM
Unfortunately strikers cannot make runs off Soteldo because his service is too unpredictable. So the only way we can score is multiple excellent passes and without a natural striker on the pitch we are deficient.
My bigger issue is Solteldo doesn’t make runs himself unless it’s straight up and down the touch line. He wants to get the ball “in his office” on the left flank.

We need players who want to be closer to goal and are a threat to score. Outside of our strikers, it seems the second most likely player to get on the ball in the box is Richie Laryea. Not good.

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 09:44 AM
We came in 2nd place in the league last year with basically the same squad. What is the difference. Not re signing Pablo Piatti. He was the one that made Pozzuello have the MVP season he had. As skilled as Solteldo is he is not clinical in his scoring or passing in the box. Piatti was. We played our best soccer last year when the midfield was Piatti, Pozuello, Degado and Osorio. Also, why is Mavinga missing so many games to personal reasons??

The difference is the manager and tactics. That's it.

Armas was lost and had no intelligible plan so that was bound to fail from the moment he signed and Perez is more like an academy instructor who is relying on playing it safe as that's our best chance to get points.

One of the MLS Rumors guys on Twitter had it right regarding Atlanta's resurgence; good MLS managers don't needs fancy tactics and ideas to succeed and more of that type fail than succeed. They need a guy who can motivate and come up with a system that gets the most out of what he has in the squad. Fraser in Colorado is a good example. That's not a flashy squad and Fraser isn't re-inventing the wheel with tactics but he is maximizing what he has at his disposal. What we're seeing this season compared to last is two managers unable to maximize what they have in the squad and the squad is technically better than last season. Most players are the same as you said and Soteldo is at least comparable to Piatti and Lawrence is an upgrade on Auro. Injuries at forward were an issue Vanney had as well as Jozy never played and Akinola was often out as well. Every bit of player regression is on the manager and also the shitty fitness department.

jloome
08-19-2021, 09:55 AM
The difference is the manager and tactics. That's it.

That's not the only thing at all.

All of these already old players are a year older; when Pozuelo went down last season under Vanney we collapsed completely, went from first in the league to squeaking the odd win, and then lost in unceremonious style to Nashville in the playoffs.

We were shit for a good portion of last season, too. We were organized shit who were in every game, but we were still shit.

Yeah, the manager makes a big difference, I don't doubt it. But no one could win consistently with this dull turd of a lineup.

We have no defense. We're on pace for the worst GAA in league history and we're routinely starting a player we cut as not good enough six months ago.

As soon as we started the season without at least one, likely two, new center backs, the season was effectively over.

This is largely on the front office. Yeah, they also picked the wrong guy in Armas, but they could've hired Pineda and we'd still be losing most if not all of these games.

Comparing us to Atlanta is pointless; Atlanta's three wins all came since Josef Martinez' return and they are stronger than us in multiple positions. And they still sucked almost as badly as we do, they just have a consistent scorer, which is why they're eking out one-goal wins.

Seriously: ask yourself how much "authority" Pineda stamped on that game. We were terrible, they were equally fucking terrible. They scored on a deflected goal from our center half who doesn't know how to close a man down in the box.

No, this is largely a roster issue, first and foremost. Armas being an idiot is too easy an out for Manning and Curtis who have ridden 2017 into the dirt and the club's prospects with it.

reggie
08-19-2021, 10:06 AM
That's not the only thing at all.

All of these already old players are a year older; when Pozuelo went down last season under Vanney we collapsed completely, went from first in the league to squeaking the odd win, and then lost in unceremonious style to Nashville in the playoffs.

We were shit for a good portion of last season, too. We were organized shit who were in every game, but we were still shit.

Yeah, the manager makes a big difference, I don't doubt it. But no one could win consistently with this dull turd of a lineup.

We have no defense. We're on pace for the worst GAA in league history and we're routinely starting a player we cut as not good enough six months ago.

As soon as we started the season without at least one, likely two, new center backs, the season was effectively over.

This is largely on the front office. Yeah, they also picked the wrong guy in Armas, but they could've hired Pineda and we'd still be losing most if not all of these games.

Comparing us to Atlanta is pointless; Atlanta's three wins all came since Josef Martinez' return and they are stronger than us in multiple positions. And they still sucked almost as badly as we do, they just have a consistent scorer, which is why they're eking out one-goal wins.

Seriously: ask yourself how much "authority" Pineda stamped on that game. We were terrible, they were equally fucking terrible. They scored on a deflected goal from our center half who doesn't know how to close a man down in the box.

No, this is largely a roster issue, first and foremost. Armas being an idiot is too easy an out for Manning and Curtis who have ridden 2017 into the dirt and the club's prospects with it.
i agree there were signs last season and the year before,we barely made the playoffs got lucky with a home game and had a 3 game run with no strikers.had to freshen up the squad this season but not with lazy curtis

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 10:46 AM
This is largely on the front office. Yeah, they also picked the wrong guy in Armas, but they could've hired Pineda and we'd still be losing most if not all of these games.

Comparing us to Atlanta is pointless; Atlanta's three wins all came since Josef Martinez' return and they are stronger than us in multiple positions. And they still sucked almost as badly as we do, they just have a consistent scorer, which is why they're eking out one-goal wins.

Seriously: ask yourself how much "authority" Pineda stamped on that game. We were terrible, they were equally fucking terrible. They scored on a deflected goal from our center half who doesn't know how to close a man down in the box.

Pineda hasn't started yet. He starts today. Valentino has been running Atlanta as the interim. The point was that Valentino got more from the squad than Heinze with his 'ways' and supposed advanced tactics.

As for the Martinez factor, he's been back 6 matches now and he's scord 3 goals but they didn't win all of the 3 matches he scored in so it's not like he single handedly turned the squad around.

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 10:48 AM
had a 3 game run with no strikers

AKA the Jozy factor

reggie
08-19-2021, 11:08 AM
AKA the Jozy factor
aka the jozy factor for 3 yrs now,so now its mullins,dywer,acarha perruzza 0 goals combined this season,playoffs here we come.
jus play perruzza the rest of the season,see what you got

Auzzy
08-19-2021, 11:10 AM
Why not both? (Squad and coach.)

Our squad wasn't good enough last year either. Multiple guys were overplayed in a difficult environment, and gradually broke down.

Our striker situation was bad last year. Our CB situation was bad. We had a more competent manager. But we also lucked into a bunch of ties and 1-goal wins last year, some of which were undeserved. I would say we played better last night than some of the games last year.

This year: our CBs are older and even worse, especially Gonzalez. Mavinga has always missed some games per season, but is missing more this season, and didn't look too great in some of the games before. He's not turning into a line leader to take over from Gonzalez. Ciman was a somewhat OK fill-in at times last year; he's gone and wasn't replaced. (Gonzalez should have slipped into Ciman's role this year; and we should have gotten a new top defender. But Gonzalez is probably too expensive for a backup role like that.)

Our striker situation is the same or worse this year. Akinola in & quickly out again. Jozy barely here; now likely gone for the season. Achara finally back; fingers crossed but he can't do it alone. Mullins isn't actually Mullinho. Dwyer was probably our most useless signing this year, when you see some of the other healthy & productive backup strikers on decent wages around MLS.

Soteldo is probably an upgrade on Piatti, also considering Piatti's age and durability. But they haven't figure out how to play together yet. Watch some of Soteldo's games in Brazil: there should be a way to fit him in more productively. Plus Pozuelo has really dropped off compared to last year. How much of that is due to nagging injuries?

Armas was far worse. Perez better than Armas but beyond that I'm not sure.

I find the average level of effort and motivation from the players to be much worse this year. Really bad towards the end of Armas' time; but not really good now either. Many of the other teams we played this year just run harder and try harder. We didn't get much of a bounce from returning to Toronto either. My guess: motivation got really bad under Armas; got a bit better when Perez took over; but then got worse again when nobody was signed in the summer window and it became clear that this year is a write-off. And perhaps Perez isn't a great motivator; or at least not good enough to overcome all the negatives.

reggie
08-19-2021, 11:21 AM
Why not both? (Squad and coach.)

Our squad wasn't good enough last year either. Multiple guys were overplayed in a difficult environment, and gradually broke down.

Our striker situation was bad last year. Our CB situation was bad. We had a more competent manager. But we also lucked into a bunch of ties and 1-goal wins last year, some of which were undeserved. I would say we played better last night than some of the games last year.

This year: our CBs are older and even worse, especially Gonzalez. Mavinga has always missed some games per season, but is missing more this season, and didn't look too great in some of the games before. He's not turning into a line leader to take over from Gonzalez. Ciman was a somewhat OK fill-in at times last year; he's gone and wasn't replaced. (Gonzalez should have slipped into Ciman's role this year; and we should have gotten a new top defender. But Gonzalez is probably too expensive for a backup role like that.)

Our striker situation is the same or worse this year. Akinola in & quickly out again. Jozy barely here; now likely gone for the season. Achara finally back; fingers crossed but he can't do it alone. Mullins isn't actually Mullinho. Dwyer was probably our most useless signing this year, when you see some of the other healthy & productive backup strikers on decent wages around MLS.

Soteldo is probably an upgrade on Piatti, also considering Piatti's age and durability. But they haven't figure out how to play together yet. Watch some of Soteldo's games in Brazil: there should be a way to fit him in more productively. Plus Pozuelo has really dropped off compared to last year. How much of that is due to nagging injuries?

Armas was far worse. Perez better than Armas but beyond that I'm not sure.

I find the average level of effort and motivation from the players to be much worse this year. Really bad towards the end of Armas' time; but not really good now either. Many of the other teams we played this year just run harder and try harder. We didn't get much of a bounce from returning to Toronto either. My guess: motivation got really bad under Armas; got a bit better when Perez took over; but then got worse again when nobody was signed in the summer window and it became clear that this year is a write-off. And perhaps Perez isn't a great motivator; or at least not good enough to overcome all the negatives.
yes could see this a mile away,curtis and manning seem to have blinders on,btw where are the 2 AMIGOS,seem to be in hiding

Auzzy
08-19-2021, 11:25 AM
BTW forget some of what I wrote; Mavinga had a very good reason to be missing last night. Fingers crossed his daughter continues to get better, and Chris will be back when he's ready for it.

https://twitter.com/Chris_Mavinga/status/1428379275594551296

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 11:25 AM
aka the jozy factor for 3 yrs now,so now its mullins,dywer,acarha perruzza 0 goals combined this season,playoffs here we come.
jus play perruzza the rest of the season,see what you got
Really should jettison all the centre forwards except Akinola and rebuild. Same for the central defenders except keep Mavinga to transition to the "3rd" CB eventually.

jloome
08-19-2021, 11:37 AM
Pineda hasn't started yet. He starts today. Valentino has been running Atlanta as the interim. The point was that Valentino got more from the squad than Heinze with his 'ways' and supposed advanced tactics.

As for the Martinez factor, he's been back 6 matches now and he's scord 3 goals but they didn't win all of the 3 matches he scored in so it's not like he single handedly turned the squad around.

Middling points to the real issue at hand, which is that our roster is shit.

When you compare it with what's required to compete with Seattle, probably the most rounded roster in the league? Their second team would consistently beat us.

Not to dissuade anyone from thinking we have a glorious future, but even our better players are playing in a league that has improved every year in talent since 2017.

On a competing team in this league, none of these players would be in the first team:
Shaffelburg
Auro
Laryea (one good season does not make a player, his decisions are shit)
Akinola
Altidore
Bradley
Delgado (he is not the efficient two-way shuttler he once was, he has a limited value as a starter)
Gonzalez
Mavinga
Zavaleta

Yes, Richie has the skillset but so far he's proving he doesn't have the patience, decision making or defensive drive to be a top player. And we should, at this point of the league's development and budgeting, be able to do better at right wing or wingback (and frankly he's always shown better when forced to go back and have defensive responsibilities. Too often up front he's too far ahead of the play. Ditto with Soteldo. What's the point of true wingers rather than outside forwards if we have no targets?!?)

Mavinga's impatience and the odd brain fart are now amplified by age and, one assumes, general disgust. Omar is too mistake prone, Zavaleta is just entirely out of his depth.

Akinola has a lot of Jozy-like potential but he's still pretty raw. There's not a lot of movement off the ball to try and help his team by moving the defensive shape and he's not explosive enough speed wise to routinely just run the back shoulder. Strikers in this league should be consistent threats every time they touch the ball.

Before anyone points out that it's dreaming to have competitive players in every position, I'd say roster mismanagement is a bigger cause. Seattle is spending well less money than us. Portland, KC, LAFC, NYFC, New England all have more depth than we do and players dangerous or at least effective at all their primary positions.

Right now, we should be rebuilding around Soteldo, Pozuelo, Osorio, Priso, possibly Lawrence (although frankly my jury is still out there. He was a stay-at-home fullback at NYRB and even deputized centrally several times, so why we have him overlapping with El Jefe is a puzzler. He doesn't seem good at it.)

The rest should be fighting for a job, and likely one on the bench at that.

Also, Having Pozuelo and Soteldo makes using Poz centrally repeatedly problematic. We don't have a strike pair up front, so either our wingers have to be inside forwards and contribute goals -- at which point he and Soteldo tie each other up -- or they have to stay wide and hope Poz picks up junk.

This is why he ended up on the wing at Genk. Same problem. As soon as we brought in a second playmaker instead of a scorer, we shifted his burden back to being about goals.

If we play 442, we need two actual strikers, threats in the air and on the ground. If we have two strikers, and don't play him on the wing, we now have five attacking players going forward and only five going back.

In this league, using a lone anchor and no connecting players gets you torn apart.

So we either use him as a second striker -- at which he is unconvincing, or we use him where his skill set would be most balanced and useful, which is wide right.

Then we can play either a 4-3-3- or a 4-4-2 and still be balanced.

But either way, we need:

-- Two dangerous strikers, likely one DP and one TAM
-- a center back pairing that is competitive and tough to break down
-- to move one of either Richie (more upside offensively) or Auro (more defensively) for a more consistent starting right back
-- to move one of either Michael (unlikely) or Mark Delgado and take advantage while there's still some value to be had, for a more consistent and less error-prone holder to compete with Priso.
-- A starting goalkeeper, as Q isn't getting younger (but is still a better option than Bono, which is saying something).


(I'm sure people will tell me how great Richie is and how wrong I am, but the stats this year say otherwise. He's near the top of the league in being fouled but has created nothing offensively and is a defensive liability. He's just not consistent. If someone offered us north of a million for him, I'd pounce on that shit.)

I also get repeated strains of arrogance or petulance about calls, subs and challenges from Zavaleta, Altidore, Laryea, and Delgado. Players have to be confident, yes, but there's confidence and there's a complete absence of awareness of contributing to the problem. All four repeatedly, particularly away from primary tasks such as when pressing or defending high, slough off their responsibilities or make lazy decisions. Sometimes, Omar's in that camp as well, such as when he's beaten for pace and instead of trying to body a player wide just shoves him over.

Fuck it, gloves off. Tell the players they're playing for their jobs and that if they think they'll get a great next contract after a year of sitting on a bench they're kidding themselves.

Buck has to stop somewhere.

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 12:27 PM
On a competing team in this league, none of these players would be in the first team:
Shaffelburg
Auro
Laryea (one good season does not make a player, his decisions are shit)
Akinola
Altidore
Bradley
Delgado (he is not the efficient two-way shuttler he once was, he has a limited value as a starter)
Gonzalez
Mavinga
Zavaleta


I bet Fraser would take most of these players on his roster in Colorado barring them making too much money and they're make up games away from being 1st in the west. They would all probably perform better there.

ag futbol
08-19-2021, 12:53 PM
Football is a strange game. All it takes is a few laggards to cause a whole team to look worse that what it is. I don’t think we have to absolutely burn it down but I do think we absolutely have to address the following:

- Strikers x2 (1 DP)
- CB x2
- a keeper who is the starter or can grow into the starting role in the next 12-24 months
- making sure the midfield balance is right. To be honest, I see a very limited role for Bradley here but maybe better CB’s make him more useful.

jloome
08-19-2021, 02:10 PM
I bet Fraser would take most of these players on his roster in Colorado barring them making too much money and they're make up games away from being 1st in the west. They would all probably perform better there.

You seem to think Colorado has the same shit lineup it had before he replaced Hudson. Show me who they'd displace, because it's not a weak team by any stretch. He's not achieving miracles, he's just built a solid MLS lineup very quickly.

The reality is that he'd take some of them, but he wouldn't start any of them, not with any regularity.

No one among Delgado, Bradley or Priso would dislodge MA Kaye. Osorio wouldn't displace Cole Bassett, for argument's sake. Laryea wouldn't displace Rosenberry for defensive reasons and he wouldn't have displaced Sam Vines, had he not just been sold to Antwerp.

Akinola would not displace Rubio or Shinyashiki, both of whom can drift wide, and he wouldn't replace Barrios, who has five goals already this season.

Colorado is a much more balanced, complete team than we are.

Areathrasher
08-19-2021, 02:19 PM
Barrios on Colorado is the ex Dallas player. He's 30.

https://ca.soccerway.com/players/michael-david-barrios-puerta/186485/

OgtheDim
08-19-2021, 02:22 PM
Osorio is way better then Cole Basset

&


I maintain that any understanding of our current roster is inherently opaque because of the transition we are in towards 2022.

Priso out for the season, for example, when he showed in that one game that he IS the future of our DM position. (his recovery time was not quite Davies like but man..he was quick to get back)

jloome
08-19-2021, 02:31 PM
Osorio is way better then Cole Basset

&


I maintain that any understanding of our current roster is inherently opaque because of the transition we are in towards 2022.

Priso out for the season, for example, when he showed in that one game that he IS the future of our DM position. (his recovery time was not quite Davies like but man..he was quick to get back)

Over the last two seasons, Bassett has more team of the week appearances, more goals and the same transfer value even though he's only 20.

Jonathan Osorio is not WAY better than Cole Bassett. It's arguable that he's better at all. And Osorio wasn't on the original list, so it's not really germane to whether Fraser would take him.

jloome
08-19-2021, 02:33 PM
Barrios on Colorado is the ex Dallas player. He's 30.

https://ca.soccerway.com/players/michael-david-barrios-puerta/186485/

My bad. Either way, he has five goals in thirteen appearances, and it seems highly unlikely he'd lose his spot to an inconsistent young player with considerable holes in his game. In fact, at 30, it seems even less likely.

Again, Colorado's roster is not weaker than ours. Their standing right now is precisely because Fraser has rebuilt the team, not turned a shithouse into a salon.

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2021, 03:30 PM
Again, Colorado's roster is not weaker than ours. Their standing right now is precisely because Fraser has rebuilt the team, not turned a shithouse into a salon.

If they win the west with that line up and the 23rd highest payroll then that's shithouse to salon for me. You do remember them under Mastroeni right?

jloome
08-19-2021, 03:43 PM
If they win the west with that line up and the 23rd highest payroll then that's shithouse to salon for me. You do remember them under Mastroeni right?

They won't win the west, barring Seattle fucking the dog.

Would it be overachieving if they did? Yeah, of course.

Are they a stronger lineup than our first team? Without a doubt. We just have too many weaknesses. They have guys competing for team-of-the-week spots regularly, but even their marginal players are at least dependably consistent at the MLS level.

We have players people are convinced should be starting who simply shouldn't be. The league has gotten a lot stronger over the last decade.

Delgado two years ago, even? Sure, still a starter. Delgado from last year and this? Too inconsistent.

Richie's skill set wasn't unknown in Orlando. He was there for three seasons and is 26. He always had the ability to dance around defenders. He played more than 20 games for Orlando as a winger and recorded one assist. He made bad decisions then. He makes bad decisions now. The fact that for one year he played as if he couldn't miss the net and dropped crosses on dimes doesn't mean he's the second coming of Wondolowski, who rotted on a bench in Houston for two years.

Maybe he sorts that shit out, becomes consistent again. But I'm not holding my breath. I bought the hype after last year, too, but he and Soteldo are both turning into tricky wingers who just bring the offensive movement to a grinding halt. Maybe it's just the harsh state of the team dragging him down, but he needs to show it with some goals and assists. He's our leading shooter this year, and yet Osorio, who's been away or on the bench for half the season, is leading us in scoring.

I dunno... if the question is whether Laryea, Delgado should be locks to start, I say no. They should be fighting for it against a stronger roster. We have very few lock starters, at this point.

ag futbol
08-19-2021, 03:43 PM
Over the last two seasons, Bassett has more team of the week appearances, more goals and the same transfer value even though he's only 20.

If he pans out, he’s getting sold fairly quickly. Haven’t watching him play much but for perspective Osorio and company pretty well bossed a midfield of Busio, Acosta, and Lletget in the gold cup. You might look at a few of those guys and suggest nobody makes that swap and that might be true based on potential / transfer value, but Osorio’s impact on the game is right there, if not better. His insertion in the game in the 20th minute after an injury was the major turning point.

jloome
08-19-2021, 03:49 PM
If he pans out, he’s getting sold fairly quickly. Haven’t watching him play much but for perspective Osorio and company pretty well bossed a midfield of Busio, Acosta, and Lletget in the gold cup. You might look at a few of those guys and suggest nobody makes that swap and that might be true based on potential / transfer value, but Osorio’s impact on the game is right there, if not better. His insertion in the game in the 20th minute after an injury was the major turning point.

The point isn't that I prefer Bassett, it's that at 20, he would at the very least make it a fight for anyone we have other than Pozuelo to displace him. Oso is a great player, one of our few consistent performers. But Colorado is winning because that describes most of their first team.

ag futbol
08-19-2021, 03:50 PM
Richie's skill set wasn't unknown in Orlando. He was there for three seasons and is 26. He always had the ability to dance around defenders. He played more than 20 games for Orlando as a winger and recorded one assist. He made bad decisions then. He makes bad decisions now. The fact that for one year he played as if he couldn't miss the net and dropped crosses on dimes doesn't mean he's the second coming of Wondolowski, who rotted on a bench in Houston for two years.

IIRC, he was mainly used in Orlando as an AM or right sided mid in midfield 4-3-3. He was not used as a true wide player or fullback with any frequency.

Have to say of everything you wrote I disagree with this the most.

ag futbol
08-19-2021, 03:53 PM
But Colorado is winning because that describes most of their first team.
And maybe this is the point rather than their players individually are better than ours. It only takes a Zavaleta or two in order to deter the work of an entire team.

I don’t think they are so great. But they are more well rounded than we are.

portu
08-19-2021, 05:02 PM
Really should jettison all the centre forwards except Akinola and rebuild. Same for the central defenders except keep Mavinga to transition to the "3rd" CB eventually.
I largely agree with this. Though I think Mavinga this season has been making the case that he should also be let go.

Both keepers and all the wingers except for Soteldo and the young guns should be included in this exodus.

ManUtd4ever
08-19-2021, 06:46 PM
I think we actually played very well the last couple of games and deserved at least a draw in both matches. The main issue as of late has been our lack of finish.

I would wager that if Perez had been in charge since the beginning of the season with the exact same roster in place, we would currently be in a playoff spot.

We undoubtedly have deficiencies throughout the roster that need to be addressed moving forward, but on paper, there's no chance this team should be stuck at 3 wins this late in the season.

DinamoTFC
08-20-2021, 12:44 PM
I'm still amazed at how we went from so called potential "dynasty" to last place, not even pausing mid table for a bit.

Really shocking to see how quickly the club was destroyed with poor decision making.
It's even more painful when there's no buzz, information, personality or anything exciting with the team.

MightyDM
08-20-2021, 01:56 PM
Seba was wise. “Why are we still celebrating the Victory” he said at the beginning of 2018. I think in 2018 the team wore out. And has been mismanaged since - assuming that the parts post Seba were better than they are and failing to fill obvious holes.

MightyDM
08-20-2021, 01:57 PM
Also Q looked good.