Poll - Do we make the playoffs?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Let's see how optimistic/realistic and footy knowledgeable we are?

5 possibilities to chose from in this poll.

:scarf: :scarf: :scarf:

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As of today, Monday, August 9:

We are dead last in the 27 team MLS.

Our goal-diferrential is catastrophal (-15), it is also the worst in the league. It's because we have by far the worst defense in the league!
The next worst defense of the league (Cincinnati) has conceded 8 goals less than us.

The next team right above us in our Conference (Cincinnati) has 1 point plus on us and 1 extra game in hand, in the other Conference the bottom team (Vancouver) has also 1 point plus on us and 1 extra game in hand.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367467114_f6cc91eda3.jpg

[mowe]

Nah, we’ve dropped too many points at home and our defense is atrocious.

[tfcfans]

We won’t be close - this is 2018 all over again - we keep waiting for some switch to flip (like in 2019 from August onwards), but there is no switch to flip....the bonus as a STH this season is we aren’t stuck buying a lot of meaningless end of season games on Fall weeknights for a team unlikely to be competitive at the end - so frankly it’s a win for my wallet too....

The truth is after being a fan of Toronto based teams my whole life I can’t complain if I’m being objective about the last 6 years — 3 Finals appearances since 2016 and a dream season in 2017 with a great CCL run to follow (no Toronto team has made three finals in a league of more than 20 or so teams), two horrendous seasons (2018/2021) and one very good regular season followed by a playoff disappointment (2020)......no other local (Toronto) team has done that - the Jays from 1989-1993 is the only “better” run as they capped it off with two Championships instead of one (I’m not including a 6 team NHL where 1/3 of the league makes the Finals or the 8-9 team CFL which also can be won by a 9-9 team - although 96-97 was great too with Flutie doing his thing)....in MLS, outside of Seattle, who has really had it better than us over the last 6 years?

[tfcfans]

Look at the Leafs (or don’t), no playoff success in like 17 or so years...

Jays did nothing from 1994-2014 - 20 (tel:1994-2014 - 20) years of nothing - followed by August 2015 - October 2016; then another 3-4 years of basically meaningless baseball and now this August feeling like 2015 a bit again....

Raptors has the longest run of continued success recently but it still resulted in one title in 2019 (the one dream season like in 2017), and one Conference Finals Appearance in which LBJ basically did what he wanted and we were never going to win that series (4-2 is very deceiving as none of the games we lost were even competitive).....

I want to complain, it’s easy to complain (Bradley who I love needs to transition to a lesser role, the Jozy contract is an albatross on this team, Omar is way past it and vastly overpaid, the need for a CB is obvious as well as a DP level striker up front who can play 30 games a year, Bono and Westberg make way too much combined salary for the performance we are getting.....etc...) — but the truth is the 2014-2021 era is done and we need to transition to the next era of TFC - it will unfortunately not be a rousing success from Day one — but, Pozuelo is a nice piece, Soteldo is a nice piece, we have some young players that look pretty good - this is where we are.....

.....don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened....we went from being “the worst team in the world”, to one of the model franchises in the league - every team (outside of Seattle who apparently can do no wrong), has made mistakes and had crappy results, but I’d rather be where we are, and where we’ve been recently, than in a lot of other MLS cities.....

[ag futbol]

Nah, we’ve dropped too many points at home and our defense is atrocious.
Agreed. This season is over.

All the more reason to give players like Priso as many minutes as possible to help development.

[Ultra & Proud]

I say we keep up the fight for the wooden spoon until the end. We will most likely finish somewhere between 30-35 points.

[MikeForbes]

All these draws lately have given us basically no chance of playoffs. I expect the team to continue getting results, but we are way too off the pace at this point.

[jloome]

We're nine points out of a playoff spot with 18 games to go. The East isn't that strong.

NYFC is easily the best team in the east over the last two months, and we walked all over them in the second half, with the right lineup.

It's really all down to whether change is accepted, and to what degree, and how well younger players adapt to pressure. So the probability isn't great

But it's certainly not over already. I remember RSL getting in on the last day of the season due to our losing 5-0 to the Red Bulls... which got them a title.... which gave Manning a winning credit in RSL... which led to us getting Manning... which led to us getting Curtis...

It's like New York hates us or something.

[ensco]

There are numerous examples in MLS of teams ripping off 5 game winning streaks to turn their season around in the second half.

I didn’t vote because I have no opinion on how we would do if we got there. Single game knockout crapshoots are only fun if you are TFC 2019.

[Joe Kool]

"Why can't we be great" - TL

[Richard]

I wish North American adopted relegation. The only thing owners understand is money, and if that's threatened they'll actually starting giving a shit, or get exposed.

Voted "No", our defense will continue to be our undoing.

[Oldtimer]

I wish North American adopted relegation. The only thing owners understand is money, and if that's threatened they'll actually starting giving a shit, or get exposed.

Voted "No", our defense will continue to be our undoing.

It's not about money. TFC tops the league in spending. It's about competence, or Curtis' lack of it.

[Bushmancan]

^ exactly in hindsight I am more angry at Curtis than anyone. And Manning is becoming a close second if he doesn't lay the law. After NER, our schedule is mostly the bottom half of the east until Philly the 3rd last week. We were very fortunate last time we played them and surprised them. They won't be sleeping this game.

[leedsandTFC]

probably not, but stranger things have happened.

perez has averaged 1.43 ppg over 7 games, 5 of those vs top 5 sides in the east.

need to see how he does against some of the weaker sides.

[jloome]

It's not about money. TFC tops the league in spending. It's about competence, or Curtis' lack of it.

We're actually second to Inter Miami, but just barely, less than a million difference.

Only five teams spend more than $15M on salary per year: Atlanta, Toronto, Miami, LA Galaxy and Cincinnati.

Four out of five are at or near the bottom of the league.

No depth, no competitiveness. Older DPs. Same problem in each place, building a roster as if it were 2012 and DPs were a relatively new thing. Trying to win it in a year (which worked for us and Atlanta, to be honest, but clearly isn't sustainable.)

But let's be honest: take off Jozy's $3.6M and Gallardo's 500K and we're not in the top 10 in spending anymore. It makes that much of a difference having that anchor around our necks, relative to overall value.

[jloome]

probably not, but stranger things have happened.

perez has averaged 1.43 ppg over 7 games, 5 of those vs top 5 sides in the east.

need to see how he does against some of the weaker sides.

Hard to count that as indicative, though. I think he made a very, very bold statement in the last game, and it wasn't because he just then happened to notice that Michael can't cover ground or react quickly enough any more.

If he reverts and tries to keep him and Jozy out there as starters, we're fucked. But the decision might not be up to him, and you KNOW Curtis isn't going to figure this out based purely on performance. He'll be trying to placate, and he just went through banishing Altidore. There's every chance he's going to fuck this up by telling Perez he has to play them.

[Red CB Toronto]

Too much is not going right for this team right now. They are just not very consistent in the right way as of now.

[Richard]

Hard to count that as indicative, though. I think he made a very, very bold statement in the last game, and it wasn't because he just then happened to notice that Michael can't cover ground or react quickly enough any more.

If he reverts and tries to keep him and Jozy out there as starters, we're fucked. But the decision might not be up to him, and you KNOW Curtis isn't going to figure this out based purely on performance. He'll be trying to placate, and he just went through banishing Altidore. There's every chance he's going to fuck this up by telling Perez he has to play them.

If that conversation is happening I hope Perez tells him to fuck right off.

Anyone with two eyes saw the immediate difference in play.

[leedsandTFC]

Hard to count that as indicative, though. I think he made a very, very bold statement in the last game, and it wasn't because he just then happened to notice that Michael can't cover ground or react quickly enough any more.

If he reverts and tries to keep him and Jozy out there as starters, we're fucked. But the decision might not be up to him, and you KNOW Curtis isn't going to figure this out based purely on performance. He'll be trying to placate, and he just went through banishing Altidore. There's every chance he's going to fuck this up by telling Perez he has to play them.

i agree. that 2nd half was the best we've played in years and it's no coincidence that it was without jozy and MB on the pitch.

if we pick a team based on performance, not reputation, i think we have a better shot than people think.

if not, we might as well call it a season now.

[ag futbol]

If that conversation is happening I hope Perez tells him to fuck right off.

Anyone with two eyes saw the immediate difference in play.
Not a bad power play. Eating your lame-duck boss is a time honoured tradition.

[Richard]

Had to be done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

[noxx98]

We're actually second to Inter Miami, but just barely, less than a million difference.

Only five teams spend more than $15M on salary per year: Atlanta, Toronto, Miami, LA Galaxy and Cincinnati.

Four out of five are at or near the bottom of the league.

No depth, no competitiveness. Older DPs. Same problem in each place, building a roster as if it were 2012 and DPs were a relatively new thing. Trying to win it in a year (which worked for us and Atlanta, to be honest, but clearly isn't sustainable.)

But let's be honest: take off Jozy's $3.6M and Gallardo's 500K and we're not in the top 10 in spending anymore. It makes that much of a difference having that anchor around our necks, relative to overall value.

Not to nitpick, but we were second before adding Soteldo and Lawrence. Their salaries would put us in first.

Also Gallardo is on 331k, not 500k

[jloome]

Not to nitpick, but we were second before adding Soteldo and Lawrence. Their salaries would put us in first.

Also Gallardo is on 331k, not 500k

Eek, you're right. When you include them we're $5M over anyone else. Brutal.

[reggie]

this is the worst cap managed team in the mls.jus on D we have 3 mil. 800 k in keepers.overpaid mids and a overpaid striker,ali is pretty dumb for such a smart guy
he also has 3 intl spots to 2 usl caliber players and 1 to a college kid with 2 acl injuries,but thats ok he hired armas and got a new contract.

[Auzzy]

Had to be done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

Thanks! Came here to look for that video, was going to have to post it myself otherwise.

[Blindside16]

I voted no. I think we make a good run but fall short. We would need to average around 2 point/game to have a realistic shot based on previous years. We only managed that once before

[Ultra & Proud]

Even though our opponents were good over the past few weeks, the 'back at home' bump should have got us up the table somewhat. Instead it sunk us to the bottom. Realistically I don't see us as a wooden spoon level team but it's obvious we're not playoff quality either. I believe if we embraced some of the kids, played Westberg, and made some hard roster choices (remove Bradley & Altidore permanently from starting), we could make a move to be at least competing for the last spot come September.

I am not sure Perez has the stones to do what's necessary though. It's a big ask.

[Joe Kool]

Also Gallardo is on 331k, not 500k

I keep forgetting he is on the team. Pretty bad for a player earning that wage.

[noxx98]

this is the worst cap managed team in the mls.jus on D we have 3 mil. 800 k in keepers.overpaid mids and a overpaid striker,ali is pretty dumb for such a smart guy
he also has 3 intl spots to 2 usl caliber players and 1 to a college kid with 2 acl injuries,but thats ok he hired armas and got a new contract.
Other than Bradley, which MF is materially overpaid? When Bradley re-signed we were all happy it was for TAM rather than DP. If you go back to the forums from that time, I think the signing was received relatively positively. Our use of international spots has also not limited any signings. If anything, we're in such a good position because many of our top players are domestic and as a Canadian club we don't need to use international slots on Canadians. You could argue TFC could have flipped an international spot for a small bit of GAM.

Lots of bad moves that Curtis has made - just want us to actually focus on those rather than call every single move he made wrong.

[noxx98]

I keep forgetting he is on the team. Pretty bad for a player earning that wage.
Yes, was a deal gone wrong. I wish he was on $200k per year and wasn't pegged as a "TAM winger" when he was signed. He was a lottery ticket signing and should have been advertised as a project rather than someone who's ready to make an impact on the team.

[reggie]

Other than Bradley, which MF is materially overpaid? When Bradley re-signed we were all happy it was for TAM rather than DP. If you go back to the forums from that time, I think the signing was received relatively positively. Our use of international spots has also not limited any signings. If anything, we're in such a good position because many of our top players are domestic and as a Canadian club we don't need to use international slots on Canadians. You could argue TFC could have flipped an international spot for a small bit of GAM.

Lots of bad moves that Curtis has made - just want us to actually focus on those rather than call every single move he made wrong.
the bradley signing was 2 and half years ago and not looking good now ,delgado and oso are overpaid.bottomline is highest payroll last place.he had sell intl spots for gam because his cap management has been so bad

[Ultra & Proud]

the bradley signing was 2 and half years ago and not looking good now ,delgado and oso are overpaid.bottomline is highest payroll last place.he had sell intl spots for gam because his cap management has been so bad
I think we dumped those spots because Armas didn't want internationals, just domestic scrubs to do his pressing, and most of that GAM was used to sign Dwyer & Lawrence. I am not stupid enough to think we're flush with cap space but we could free up a lot with a couple off season sensible moves.

[noxx98]

the bradley signing was 2 and half years ago and not looking good now ,delgado and oso are overpaid.bottomline is highest payroll last place.he had sell intl spots for gam because his cap management has been so bad
If you take a look at other players making similar amounts to Delgado and Oso, I think they stack up fine.

I thought you just said that we were using international slots on players who don't deserve it, now you're saying we had to sell international slots? We sold two slots for $425k total. I just don't see how keeping them would have been preferable. Do you want us to sell Oso and bring in a comparable international player just for the sake of it?

Like I said, lots of moves to not like from Ali, but I don't think resigning Delgado or not transferring Oso should be high on that list.

Also the Bradley signing was ~1.5 years ago, not 2.5 (although at this point its close to 2 years ago now). At the time of the signing the reaction from our forum was overwhelmingly positive. We can certainly look back at it with hindsight and regret it, but it seemed like a good deal at the time. Just go back and look at the comments: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?35391-The-Michael-Bradley-thread/page9 and http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?42602-TFC-2019-2020-player-off-season-roster-discussion/page15

[reggie]

they sold the intl spots for gam because the cap management is so bad ie cbs goalies all overpaid .delgado is overpaid i rather have a 19 yr old make the same mistakes that a delgado makes for 400k less.plus im sure they could of sold delgado for some gam.wasting money on usl caliber players with intl spots,is a waste,could of used to get maybe another cb,there were signs the last 6 or 7 games last season that the middle of d was in shambles last season and he did nothing

[JoesphNdo]

I've never rated Bradley particularly highly, not a popular opinion I know, but the TAM deal at the time was a good one. You can't go back in tine and apply what we know now to then and say it was a bad decision - getting him back on TAM money, at the time, was the right call and a nice bonus for us

The Jozy re-up was an unmitigated disaster and that was true at the moment it happened, but I don't know of many people who said anything bad about the Bradley one at the time including myself that's never been a big fan of him

[Ultra & Proud]

they sold the intl spots for gam because the cap management is so bad ie cbs goalies all overpaid .delgado is overpaid i rather have a 19 yr old make the same mistakes that a delgado makes for 400k less.plus im sure they could of sold delgado for some gam.wasting money on usl caliber players with intl spots,is a waste,could of used to get maybe another cb,there were signs the last 6 or 7 games last season that the middle of d was in shambles last season and he did nothing

Couple points here; first the GK position is a waste of money. No way else to describe paying almost $500k for a keeper of Bono's ability. He is a below average MLS GK in 2021 and not starter material. Westberg's money is ok for a starter but $800K for 3 GKs is terrible and that's all down to Bono.

CB position actually a bit better cap wise without Ciman and Zavaleta's 2021 pay cut. Mavinga is Mavinga and does Mavinga things here and there but he earned what he gets. However he is also getting older and will have to transition to the 3rd CB or moved along in a year or so. Omar is 100% a waste of max cap space. Even bought down to that number with TAM it's still too high. Hopefully sanity reigns and he is allowed to go this off season so we can retool.

In midfield I have no problem with Osorio making what he gets as he is useful in a few midfield positions and is showing some leadership ability. Delgado admittedly is higher paid than I expected but he does do a job. In a perfect world he stays but he does have interest around the league and if he could score a chunk of allocation money I would move him on and try to save a bit of cash in a congested midfield. I would let DeLeon go as well to free some space for younger players.

Forward has a lot of unmovable waste too. Jozy is a waste of max cap space. Even if he got paid $700K it would be too much just like Gonzalez. As mentioned before, we'll probably have to eat it and use him as the most expensive Rickett's type late game substitution for another season. Anything Curtis paid Dwyer is too much so that's a total waste.

If we had a smart GM that acted fast and was ruthless, the cap and roster situation could be turned around in one off season. We do not have that though so I expect one more year with our manager (whoever that is) forced to make the best with an unbalanced, slow & aging roster.

[613reppingTFC]

I've never rated Bradley particularly highly, not a popular opinion I know, but the TAM deal at the time was a good one. You can't go back in tine and apply what we know now to then and say it was a bad decision - getting him back on TAM money, at the time, was the right call and a nice bonus for us

The Jozy re-up was an unmitigated disaster and that was true at the moment it happened, but I don't know of many people who said anything bad about the Bradley one at the time including myself that's never been a big fan of him

Yeah I agree, at the time I thought the Bradley signing was a good call to go to TAM...I mean the only thing I can recall that they could have done differently was probably do the physical (i thought i heard somewhere that he didn't undergo one). Why would you since we knew him and he has been with the team for years at that point. However his injury that he sustained in the finals just prior to signing could have potentially affected how they re-signed him. Not sure it would have made much of a difference or would it have? Obviously we also didn't know a pandemic was going to hit (which actually ended up helping the fact since he only missed two games).

So I guess I'm asking, if we did that physical and we find out that he is injured and required surgery and would be out (in a regular season) from Feb to July (since he was back for the MLS is back tourney) would we have taken that deal and signed him for as much? He also suffered two injuries in a shortened season last year of only 23 games. So he's for sure been hampered last year with the injuries and he wasn't the same, but this year he looked better in a couple of games.
Still looking back I think I was pretty happy he went down to the TAM deal. The alternative was winning MLS cup and he was auto re-signed to his DP deal in a year which he would have also been injured and only made 12 of 23 appearances.

I think what they failed to do was what Bradley requested and he said sign another top level DP player if I'm going to take a TAM deal.

[DichioTFC]

Idc. We're making the playoffs.

[ag futbol]

Agreed. This season is over.

All the more reason to give players like Priso as many minutes as possible to help development.
Not to be the person who quotes their own post but my opinion hasn’t changed. While the form has been better the points are simply not there. Roster limitations are simply too much for any manager to deal with right now.

The outcome that has the most long run utility here is not focusing on playoffs and instead gearing the team for next year and giving youth players minutes, where appropriate. I’m not talking about a free-for-all where we send out Nelson to run in random directions but rather giving time to guys like Shaffleburg and Okello who may actually have breakthroughs and making sure they play inside a system. Maybe Singh too if he can give his mistakes to a level no worse than Omar / Zavs

[ensco]

0.7%

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/Toronto.html

I would like to find a bookie that paid 130 to 1 if they made it….

[Canary10]

I was one of the few who voted playoffs. It all starts Wednesday!

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Since I have put up the poll, I voted first - "No, but we come close to make it (within 3 points)."

I think I was wrong, should have put "No, not even close.", lol...
I just don't see it now how this team will have a lot better final third of season. Also, I think the last 4-5 games all will be "garbage games", because we'll have no chance for playoffs, and the whole team will play all those games totally soulless, even if maybe 3-5 younger players will be on the pitch just to get a runout.

But of course, as always ... because hope dies last:
I hope I'm wrong, and TFC will be world beaters in the remaining of the season, and Perez will turn out to be a great coach, with TFC for the next 5 seasons.