MLS Match Day 6 TFC @ Orlando Saturday May 22 7:08pm Should I stay, or should I go?

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Uv5pzejgM


what to do

what to do

which word should I choose

I don't want to lose...


**********

Have at It People

[MrPanda713]

I always love playing Orlando, even though they've now become competent and it'll be a genuinely difficult game.

Thankfully Dike is still across the pond, the lack of a number 9 hurts them, and if Richie or someone can get under Nani's skin and rattle him (like NYC did last year's playoffs) I quite like our chances, though I think Orlando has one of the best back lines in the league, with the exception of RB, where I think Soteldo could really have a blast

[Blindside16]

I am hopeful that we may finally get to see our proper starting 11 for this one. This has all the makings of a great game. I just hope our midfield can stifle out Nani on the ball. I'm thinking 2-1 to the good guys

[Yuushalinsky]

I want to see us get 3 points - no excuses.

[MikeForbes]

I want to see us get 3 points - no excuses.

The Chris Armas way. Say there are no excuses. Proceed to list off ten things that could be used as excuses.

[613reppingTFC]

I sure hope we get a good result against Orlando this weekend. They have only allowed 2 goals so far (tied with Seattle in that department), they are also one of three who have yet to lose (along with Seattle and Nashville) this season.
I'd love to see our strongest 11 out there but i'm guessing we wont see Poz the whole game, so he might come on in the second half, thinking the same with Oso...would like to see Yefe play the whole game if that's the case.
WTR made a good point on their podcast saying that they played Auro in the mid so as not to waste a sub bringing him on later in the game and shifting him over. Curious to see if Armas does the same thing here on a proper size field or if he was just experimenting or what he's thinking about that.
Any word on injuries? Priso, Delgado, Morrow, is Lawrence alright after last game?

[ensco]

Orlando are very good. It's an away game.

What is the point of saying “no excuses”, exactly? If this is an ArmasOut comment, gimme a break...

[MightyDM]

I am more worried about level of performance and structure. if they build on the Columbus game, its progress - that is what matters at this time of the season. Yes to winning, of course, but the organization and structure of a club that is now in transition is critical - will we see a Man City style of collective pressing and ball control, or a more helter-skelter? If it's the former, it's a good sign; the latter would be worrying.

[ensco]

In 2019 we started 3-0 and 5-2-1.

But then went to total s%&$t, and were 6-8-5 on July 5. 10th in the east.

Then got hot late and, of course, in the playoffs.

Drawing conclusions about how we are doing in May and June is just not that productive in a normal year let alone this year.

You won't know what we have until September.

[ag futbol]

Orlando are very good. It's an away game.

What is the point of saying “no excuses”, exactly? If this is an ArmasOut comment, gimme a break...
I think a bit of snark about the coach’s own use of hyperbole is fair game. File it under “two weeks”

Agreed this is a tough game. That said, we need to start getting something from some of these fixtures. We have highest payroll in MLS and even without Pozuelo it’s still top 10.

We can’t continue on a 1 ppg pace.

[OgtheDim]

What I saw the last 2 games (but didn't see in Jersey) was guys fighting for each other & for the badge.

I want to see that. A result? Would be surprising.

Of course, I wouldn't mind a bit of Dwyer menace against his recent teammates just for the giggles....

[Yohan]

I have forgotten how much of a twat is Dwyer on the field.

But now hes our twat and pest to the opposition lol

[Yuushalinsky]

The Chris Armas way. Say there are no excuses. Proceed to list off ten things that could be used as excuses.

you got me this is my burner account

to be fair though I wasn't expecting such sharp supporters ./s

[MikeForbes]

you got me this is my burner account

to be fair though I wasn't expecting such sharp supporters ./s

I am as sharp as a butter knife, my friend. ;)

[notthesun]

Been out of the loop recently - what's the latest on Pozuelo, any chance he plays a part in this?

[MightyDM]

you got me this is my burner account

to be fair though I wasn't expecting such sharp supporters ./s

"To be fair"

[ag futbol]

you got me this is my burner account

to be fair though I wasn't expecting such sharp supporters ./s
Bryan Colangelo, is that you? Haha.

[OgtheDim]

Hopefully some press today - Armas being asked by Davidson "So, Chris, can you give us an update on the status of Pozuelo & Osorio...."

[OgtheDim]

Yup, press today

Osorio available, Poz no


https://twitter.com/MLeach680News/status/1395785697961947136

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1395746938562170881

[OgtheDim]

No Dwyer? Well that takes 1/4 of the fun out of things

[portu]

No Dwyer? Well that takes 1/4 of the fun out of things
You aren’t a real TFC player until you get inexplicably injured.

I’m also beginning to buy into Ensco’s hunch on Pozuelo’s “injury”.

[Smokecell]

Nani will now be suspended for this one for touching a referee last weekend

[MikeForbes]

No Nani is huge. For a guy most thought would bust in MLS, he has been great for Orlando.

[ensco]

I gotta say, the level of TV genius required to put this game head to head with a Leafs - Habs playoff game (they would have known it was the Leafs in the playoffs months ago), is quite breathtaking

[Red CB Toronto]

I gotta say, the level of TV genius required to put this game head to head with a Leafs - Habs playoff game (they would have known it was the Leafs in the playoffs months ago), is quite breathtaking

Wonder if it's because its actually Orlando's home game with fans in the stands today?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

No Nani is huge. For a guy most thought would bust in MLS, he has been great for Orlando.

Yeah, we got a big break here!

[ManUtd4ever]

@ensco, yeah, the scheduling sucks. I'll be flipping back and forth hoping for 2 big wins tonight. In the Leafs case, I hope they can rally for Tavares.

[daner90]

I woke up excited for the TFC game. Had no idea the Leafs played today lol

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I woke up excited for the TFC game. Had no idea the Leafs played today lol

Same here, lol...
Many years ago, when living in T.O., I watched many Leafs games, but I don't care any more, at all.

[OgtheDim]

I have come to accept that Bono is going to start every game because that is how Armas runs things.

In the meantime, good to see Oso back & should be interesting see him work with Soteldo & Jozy. Auro as the second DM continues, it seems, even with Delgado back.

Might be more of a 4-3-1-2 but we shall see.

[James17930]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2BklKhX0AcOWhI?format=jpg&name=mediumPretty interesting 4-3-3.

[reggie]

armas loves his DMs.
we know who his pet favs are bono,auro,delgado,mullins the last 25 min to shut it down

[DavemTFC]

Just put Delgado at CDM, Auro at RB, and Laryea at RW. Not that hard Chris

And also Westberg at GK

[portu]

Armas has officially tied himself to Bono’s performance. Bono costs us games = Armas costs us games. Bono saves us games = Armas saves us games.

[portu]

Just put Delgado at CDM, Auro at RB, and Laryea at RW. Not that hard Chris

And also Westberg at GK
This seems so obvious, but I’m sure Red Bull fans would be completely unsurprised by this kind of tactical decision.

[MikeForbes]

Who is playing the right side? Delgado, Osorio or Laryea?

[James17930]

Who is playing the right side? Delgado, Osorio or Laryea?

Maybe they'll all just keep switching.

[FootBallAZ]

Bono! Bono ! Bono !


At this point, he can only trend up .
Maybe, possibly.. Hopefully.

He should have at least learned how to command the back line from Westberg

[rydermike]

At what point does Q ask for a trade/transfer?

[OgtheDim]

Maybe they'll all just keep switching.

Orlando is playing a CB as their LB - Richie should be wide on that side in front of Auro but we shall see.

[James17930]

This golf on TSN isn't going to delay the start of the game, is it?

[OgtheDim]

This golf on TSN isn't going to delay the start of the game, is it?


TSN1

[rydermike]

De Guzman should learn how to pronounce Bono's name if he's going to be a commentator

[James17930]

TSN1

I'm watching a stream, so I can't choose.

EDIT: Okay, found it.

[portu]

I'm watching a stream, so I can't choose.
All I can see is golf on TSN1

[ag futbol]

What is wrong with the guys who produce soccer for TSN? You don’t cut away from the main camera and go to a close up when a striker is running onto a ball behind the CB and potentially through on goal.

They really need to fire whoever is doing the editing and bring in someone who understands the game.

[rydermike]

All I can see is golf on TSN1
TSN1 is BC's tsn (channel 494 on Rogers). TSn4 (channel 30) is ontarios

[James17930]

At what point does Q ask for a trade/transfer?

He's 34, so I would say never. Even if he's not playing, he's still in a pretty good spot here.

[rydermike]

What is wrong with the guys who produce soccer for TSN? You don’t cut away from the main camera and go to a close up when a striker is running onto a ball behind the CB and potentially through on goal.

They really need to fire whoever is doing the editing and bring in someone who understands the game.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're using Orlando's stream and I'll blame the Orlando guys

[James17930]

What is wrong with the guys who produce soccer for TSN? You don’t cut away from the main camera and go to a close up when a striker is running onto a ball behind the CB and potentially through on goal.

They really need to fire whoever is doing the editing and bring in someone who understands the game.

Pretty sure they're just getting Orlando's feed.

[ag futbol]

Pretty sure they're just getting Orlando's feed.
You may well be right but I’ve seen them make their own share of these sorts of mistakes

[rydermike]

Bono lucky he didn't get caught there on that chip

[rydermike]

What was Omar doing. Guarding no one and two guys just standing behind him

[portu]

Zonal marking

[Initial B]

I'm sorry, but based on last game, Bono should have been benched this game - just on the basis of giving him a much needed reality check that he has to play better than that to be the starting keeper. I could understand Vanney doing this because Bono was young, but he's beyond this now....

...and Orlando just scores. If Bono starts next game, if I were Q, I would be asking my agent to find another team, because the writing's on the wall.

[James17930]

Mavinga played that wrong. Can't let the guy cut back inside.

[Yohan]

two Orlando players wide open 6 yds from the goal. epic fail

[gracos]

RBNorth off to a slow start as always, #ArmasOut #CurtisOut #ManningOut

[FootBallAZ]

Q would have had that .

Armas influence on the defensive line is really showing how much of a coach he is .

Don't think they've looked organized at all this season.


Whats Armas way ? We know can't win em all.

[OgtheDim]

We were playing well until then. But 2 guys THAT open in the box is bad - Laryea actually backed off of marking one of them.

[portu]

People aren’t even playing positions anymore again

[ag futbol]

I don’t know what the hell the instructions are in practice but the relationship between the back line and the two central defenders is completely broken.

Someone steps up to press and all of a sudden there’s a huge pocket of space in front of the back line. That’s providing endless opportunities to run at the last man.

If Armas can’t solve simple problems like that he can go back to New Jersey.

[portu]

The relationship between the whole team and the whole team is broken. There are no positions, just vague starting points.

[benito]

The relationship between the whole team and the whole team is broken. There are no positions, just vague starting points.

yeah, they look very disorganized.

[OgtheDim]

This is the first game in the East this season where it looks like a top 5 vs. a top 5 team.

[OgtheDim]

People aren’t even playing positions anymore again


Sorry, but I'm not agreeing with that.

There is interchange between mids but the d line is pretty much what it is & Jozy is the target man.

[ag futbol]

This is the first game in the East this season where it looks like a top 5 vs. a top 5 team.
To be fair, i think we made RBNY look like a top 5 team

[James17930]

Notice Bono isn't kicking it out as much this game. We're playing out from the back more.

[rydermike]

Nice piece of skill there from Solteldo

[portu]

Sorry, but I'm not agreeing with that.

There is interchange between mids but the d line is pretty much what it is & Jozy is the target man.
Really? Our back line looks like it’s in shambles. Soteldo is moving where the ball is which is fair, but Delgado, Auro, Oso, Bradley look like they’re moving without rhyme or reason and it’s leaving us unbelievably vulnerable on the break.

[MikeForbes]

Richie is too good. He deserves to go play in Europe.

[MikeForbes]

This game is crying out for Mullinho.

[DavemTFC]

Ngl this has been fun as hell to watch. Definitely not perfect (and having players in their regular positions would help) but both teams are going for it and tfc are actually playing how I hoped they would - still capable of letting the ball and their passing/skills do the work but utilizing the press at opportune moments on top of it. And weve defended well overall except for the brutal goal conceded. I think we can and will score one. Not confident we wont concede another

[OgtheDim]

Really? Our back line looks like it’s in shambles. Soteldo is moving where the ball is which is fair, but Delgado, Auro, Oso, Bradley look like they’re moving without rhyme or reason and it’s leaving us unbelievably vulnerable on the break.


You were saying nobody is playing a position. Our DML is Bradley, DMR is Auro. Then its Soteldo left, Oso Centreal & Delgado right.

There is interchange between the FB's and mids and between Oso, Delgado & Bradley but its pretty much a 4-2-3-1.

[gracos]

So its obvious our management doesnt know what they are doing and are drowning, but its a monopoly and nothing we can do; we should consider getting fan ownership into the club, According to Wakingthered "https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/5/17/22435488/2021-mls-player-salaries-revealed-toronto-fc-could-have-the-highest-payroll" Orlando has only spent

Orlando City SC ($11 193 728)
While Toronto FC spent ($17 005 133)

I believe its comes down to management and hiring their friends and not worrying about the best solution RBNorth has been a total disaster from the start; but we are helpless as we have no say, whether it be the starting GK, the tactics, the results, something is just not working, and we are on the outside of getting into the playoffs at this point, we should be bullying the other leagues considering only one other team has spent more money than us and its Inter Miami, its super frustrating that the fans have been taken for granted and it just doesnt feel great at all

[DavemTFC]

You may well be right but I’ve seen them make their own share of these sorts of mistakes
No TSN has consistently made this exact mistake since they got mls games. I'd be surprised they couldn't get anyone better but this is the same org that traded KJ for JDG

[ag futbol]

, its super frustrating that the fans have been taken for granted and it just doesnt feel great at all
Well I don’t know if we’re being taken for granted. As you mentioned, they’ve committed to the highest payroll in the league.

It’s just a shame we’re not seeing anything in return for our spending right now.

[rydermike]

So "

Orlando City SC ($11 193 728)
While Toronto FC spent ($17 005 133)


TFC is at 20+. Solteldo wasn't included in that

[Bushmancan]

I think we are going to have quite a few games before we have any real flow in our play. We are going to have to scrape for every point and goal until then.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW Game stats are here

https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/mls-regular-season/2021/matches/orlvstor-05-22-2021/stats

[gracos]

I want MLSE and Toronto FC to invest in coaching, management, physio, medical, i know players are very important but if they are out injured they still get paid, but we get no return for the club, does anyone find it ironic we hire Curtis and then at the end of the season Vanney leaves, who do we sign but they buddy pal of Curtis, who was fired by NYRB just to make him happy not caring about the results sometimes its not all about the players but supports that get the club together, i never want to see so many of our players unfit injured at the beginning of the season, it means they arent prepared and we need to have people to get them prepared

[ag futbol]

Dodged a bullet there. Tesho should have scored.

[James17930]

Soteldo better be careful.

[Bushmancan]

I think I read Columbia was ruled out hosting Copa America and Covid running rampant in Argentina. Soteldo may have to quarantine even longer before coming back to play… we may not see the full team for quite some time

[portu]

Jozy’s looked really good today imo. Very active in build up and in the box.

[MikeForbes]

Osorio has had a lot of injuries the past couple years.

[MikeForbes]

Jozy starting to get frustrated.

[DavemTFC]

Ok it just isn't remotely acceptable that a player gets the same injury twice in the season already and he has to miss a month because of the first and likely the same now. I'm not even blaming armas for this since our injury problems pre date him. Plus I'm pretty sure hes said he wouldnt rush anyone back so he must have played osorio based on medical advice

I'm not a doctor but from my total outsiders perspective I think some of our medical staff just arent good enough at their jobs

[Thomas]

Jozzy could get subbed soon. He has been running so hard he must be gassed!

[ag futbol]

There’s always the chance we drove him (and others) into the ground at the end of last season, not rotating the lineup when we should have. Now we’ve got longer term issues to manage.

[Thomas]

Really nice Yeffe move

[James17930]

Stop trying to pick out the top corners and just fire it on target FFS.

[portu]

There’s always the chance we drove him (and others) into the ground at the end of last season, not rotating the lineup when we should have. Now we’ve got longer term issues to manage.
It’s been near on 8 months.

[MikeForbes]

Orlando has a beastly backline.

[FootBallAZ]

How many shots on net does TFC have ? Aside from auto's shot


No one on this team can strike the ball on net especially from 18+ yards

With the exception to like maybe three players


Omar mis read that pass

[gracos]

Ok it just isn't remotely acceptable that a player gets the same injury twice in the season already and he has to miss a month because of the first and likely the same now. I'm not even blaming armas for this since our injury problems pre date him. Plus I'm pretty sure hes said he wouldnt rush anyone back so he must have played osorio based on medical advice

I'm not a doctor but from my total outsiders perspective I think some of our medical staff just arent good enough at their jobs

Totally this, it may not be directly managements fault, but they are responsible for bringing in the proper medical administration and equipment, if need be to make sure our players are up to match fitness and health, our players still get paid even if they are injured, which leaves up not getting much return, no way we shouldnt have the proper tools for our team to achieve greatness, look back at previous post if we are 2nd most in spending on our players, we should be getting results, Armas likes to say no excuses then get the proper medical team, and trainers in so we can get out the most of our players

[James17930]

Shaff on fire!

[ag futbol]

It’s been near on 8 months.
For sure. I’m a layman about how this works but I would say Osorio has generally been one of our more durable players historically.

If you burn out a guy’s hammy by overplaying him... are you inviting longer term issues?

[MikeForbes]

Yefe has an awful haircut but if he keeps playing like this I'll let it go.

[FootBallAZ]

I want MLSE and Toronto FC to invest in coaching, management, physio, medical, i know players are very important but if they are out injured they still get paid, but we get no return for the club, does anyone find it ironic we hire Curtis and then at the end of the season Vanney leaves, who do we sign but they buddy pal of Curtis, who was fired by NYRB just to make him happy not caring about the results sometimes its not all about the players but supports that get the club together, i never want to see so many of our players unfit injured at the beginning of the season, it means they arent prepared and we need to have people to get them prepared

Armas did mention, it'll take time and injuries are apart of the new style as the team gets used to the style of play

He did highlight Manchester city and bayern ?


But yes medical and training staff no good

It'd literally opposite of everything of what the raptors have .

[ag futbol]

They put two players on Omar on that free kick. Looks like we’ll have to go to plan B.

[Thomas]

Take off Jozzy soon

[James17930]

Take off Jozzy soon

He's already off.

[Thomas]

My bad.
He's already off.

[alex andrew]

these players lack elementary football skills, coaches have no fault

europe ?

[tfcocd]

Really looking forward to seeing poz and soltedo on the pitch together.

Need Shaffleburg to be the super sub here and steal a point.

[portu]

Offensively a much better performance this half even though it still looks really disjointed outside of Soteldo and Ayo/Jozy. We still look like we’re always going to be exposed at the back though and it’s frankly unacceptable.

[MikeForbes]

Ayo needs to step it up.

[FootBallAZ]

Lol another hamstring

[Soccerpro]

The only game plan I can see with this team is pass it to Soteldo and hope he does everything himself.

Our strikers have been passengers during games this year. We constantly get overrun on the break.
Tesho could have 4 goals tonight if he had his finishing boots on.

Even with Poz coming back, how does that fix things? This seems like a team with no plan.

Looking forward to Nick Deleon booting it into the stands all season and then looking surprised he missed by 20 feet.

[alex andrew]

soteldo feeds shaffleburg ( corner )

why ?

[FootBallAZ]

Wonderful set piece

At least they got a shot on target

[ag futbol]

The only game plan I can see with this team is pass it to Soteldo and hope he does everything himself.

Our strikers have been passengers during games this year. We constantly get overrun on the break.

Tesho could have 4 goals tonight if he had his finishing boots on.

Even with Poz coming back, how does that fix things? This seems like a team with no plan.
Let’s not forget they are missing their best player too and first choice striker. This should be a relatively even matchup on paper.

[portu]

Absolutely cannot fault Bono today

[DavemTFC]

I take back my "well def score" prediction. We are tiring now
Orlando's game plan all half has been to put everyone behind the ball because they know they can just send it for a break behind Omar

...who went off injured! Tfc training staff strikes again

[FootBallAZ]

Absolutely cannot fault Bono today

Sometimes you need your goalkeeper needs to bail his defense out as the defense has done for him

Still feel like Q would have grabbed that with his mitts easily.

[FootBallAZ]

Late reaction by Bono dang

[Auzzy]

How many shots on net does TFC have ? Aside from auto's shot

No one on this team can strike the ball on net especially from 18+ yards

With the exception to like maybe three players

Omar mis read that pass

I agree. TFC has had enough chances to do some damage, but no decent shots, no finish. And often nobody crashing the goal when Soteldo was getting ready to put one in. Bradley had a great chance before, lots of time, ends up rolling it gently to the left past the goal. And earlier they had a great designed play off a free kick, well executed, but the guy at the end of the play that was supposed to put the ball in the net was Delgado. Seriously WTF.

[DavemTFC]

Armas has officially tied himself to Bono’s performance. Bono costs us games = Armas costs us games. Bono saves us games = Armas saves us games.

Armas is definitely saving us right now

[rydermike]

Yefe has an awful haircut but if he keeps playing like this I'll let it go.

It's the new TFC DP rule. If we sign you as a DP, you have to go full blonde within two months. Pozuelo did it first

[Bushmancan]

We have gone 5 years without crossing, forwards don’t realize you don’t just sit and watch it. LOL

[rydermike]

Wow Shaff

[Thomas]

Lucky us…could easily be 2 or 3 nil for Orlando.

[alex andrew]

elementary skills !

none !

[ag futbol]

elementary skills !

none !
And yet the same players were second place in the league last year. What’s changed?

[FootBallAZ]

I agree. TFC has had enough chances to do some damage, but no decent shots, no finish. And often nobody crashing the goal when Soteldo was getting ready to put one in. Bradley had a great chance before, lots of time, ends up rolling it gently to the left past the goal. And earlier they had a great designed play off a free kick, well executed, but the guy at the end of the play that was supposed to put the ball in the net was Delgado. Seriously WTF.

Lol hit the target omg

[gracos]

And yet the same players were second place in the league last year. What’s changed?

I know, I know!!! the coach #ArmasOut

[portu]

Mavinga is the sole reason we aren’t down by four, he’s making sure Bono isn’t being hung out to dry aside from a couple chances. The back line is a complete mess.

[alex andrew]

And yet the same players were second place in the league last year. What’s changed?

last year is soooo.....

others moved forward....

[OgtheDim]

What I saw the last 2 games (but didn't see in Jersey) was guys fighting for each other & for the badge.

I want to see that. A result? Would be surprising.

....


Pretty much this.

Orlando is a good team, we went toe to toe with them. Considering everything going on, we took steps forward.

[ag futbol]

Mavinga is the sole reason we aren’t down by four, he’s making sure Bono isn’t being hung out to dry aside from a couple chances. The back line is a complete mess.
Gonzalez is a liability. Every team’s game plan is to play off his shoulder and get him in a foot race. Mavinga is working double time to cover all that space. That aside, I find Richie’s defending a bit cavalier. Depends too much on speed.Lawrence looks like he’ll be okay.

[gracos]

#RBNorth out

[FootBallAZ]

Still don't feel inspired lol

[Yohan]

I ain't too mad. Orlando is a really good team and Oscar Pareja is really good manager.

On another day, TFC steals a point.

Though I do miss the days when Jozy and Giovinco bossed Orlando off the park.

[SoccMan2]

Bye bye playoffs by mid July they will be basically playing meaningless games with no hope of playoffs Armas out, and take Manning and the Ali fool with him !

[James17930]

Sigh.

We tried.

We're triers.

[alex andrew]

no cesar luis menotti can save you if have ...or don't have...

[portu]

Gonzalez is a liability. Every team’s game plan is to play off his shoulder and get him in a foot race. Mavinga is working double time to cover all that space. That aside, I find Richie’s defending a bit cavalier. Depends too much on speed.
The fullbacks are what is really making things difficult. Richie a little cavalier, but at least he’s back there more often than not. Kemar is pressing in the middle of their half when we turn the ball over for fuck sake.

[ag futbol]

Pretty much this.

Orlando is a good team, we went toe to toe with them. Considering everything going on, we took steps forward.
I wouldn’t say that’s what I saw. We certainly worked hard but we looked the underdog from start to finish. They were full value for the 3 points.

[mowe]

Orlando is good. But our team needs to be more organized. Our back line has been out of sorts all year.

[ag futbol]

The fullbacks are what is really making things difficult. Richie a little cavalier, but at least he’s back there more often than not. Kemar is pressing in the middle of their half when we turn the ball over for fuck sake.
Didn’t notice that but good catch. I get the feeling we are being rope-a-doped.

This team has no discipline about when it should press vs keep its shape. Teams are using that to their advantage to draw guys out of position then spring an attacker in a dangerous position.

[gracos]

Sigh.

We tried.

We're triers.

The downfall with triers they dont make playoffs and if you dont make playoffs you dont win Championships, i used to own TFCII season tickets and they poorly performed, informed the ticket sales rep and he said they are just kids and are learning, part of learning is getting results which means getting the "W" and so far we have not been getting results this season 5/18 total points at this point is very poor and at this rate we will have to look towards the draft because each game we are leaving points on the table which are lost if we cannot get positive results, this is highly frustrating and not good enough

[Bobo]

No discernible offensive system, no cohesion, no gears to move to. You get what you pay for, and this club paid for a glorified Phys. Ed teacher to steer this ship nowhere.

[portu]

Didn’t notice that but good catch. I get the feeling we are being rope-a-doped.

This team has no discipline about when it should press vs keep its shape. Teams are using that to their advantage to draw guys out of position then spring an attacker in a dangerous position.
Exactly all they have to do is hold the ball for a bit and then hold their own positions. All of a sudden they’re in space or have a break.

[leedsandTFC]

Pretty much this.

Orlando is a good team, we went toe to toe with them. Considering everything going on, we took steps forward.

we have the most expensive team in the league and have 1 win in 6, having lost to an orlando side without nani and pato today.

nowhere close to good enough.

[OgtheDim]

I wouldn’t say that’s what I saw. We certainly worked hard but we looked the underdog from start to finish. They were full value for the 3 points.

I think they were the better team but a draw would not have been out of line for that game.

FWIW, we had more shots on target then them & did pretty good getting the ball into dangerous areas. I saw a lot of good interplay between the mids getting the ball forward. We also won the ball a lot. They didn't really have a period of sustained pressure apart from that 5 minutes or so after the goal & a bit around minute 80.

Our problem remains our defence - specifically the ability of people to get behind us, even in the short bursts that are situations like the one that led to their goal. Gonzalez is what we are stuck with this season & it is going to cause us problem every game. Mavinga can only do so much. Anybody but Tesho Akindele up front like that & we give up 3.

Assuming we can get Poz back, and I see no reason to doubt he will play a part in Columbus next week, I'm not worried about our offence.


I think we are a playoff team - I'm not worried about where we sit right now because I think we will get way better as the season goes forward - as did a lot of commentators when this season started, btw.

[OgtheDim]

we have the most expensive team in the league and have 1 win in 6, having lost to an orlando side without nani and pato today.

nowhere close to good enough.




A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.

[SoccMan2]

A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.
Lol we keep dropping points , points that will come back to haunt them in the end , they will run out of time if they ever get it right this season . They need to start winning or like I said they will be playing meaningless games by the middle of July .

[ag futbol]

A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.
Okay something else is clearly amiss here because if you break it down we have 5 players earning more than a million dollars on this team: all the DP’s plus Omar and Bradley. Orlando has 3 (assuming Pato earns more than a million).

That alone should provide us with some sort of edge if we spend properly. Then you factor in we pay our DP’s more than they do.

I haven’t broken down the middle part of our roster but I should note we pay a pretty bang-average keeper 300+ and Gallardo is also showing a 300+ budget charge.

A lot to ponder here.

Edit: maybe the more direct way to describe it is: TFC non-DP payroll = $8.7 million; Orlando non-DP payroll = $6.9 million. Then you add in we pay our DP’s more . Then you add in we had one more DP on the field than they did tonight. Sort of leaves me with a sinking feeling...

[alex andrew]

A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.


yes yes yes, but as a supporter i am expecting performance now, not 4 month from now

i want to enjoy some skill and some determination

[reggie]

A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.

ORL is not better than us...other than on the sideline,they have are a manager we have a gym teacher

[leedsandTFC]

A reminder that the salary difference, assuming a team spends to the cap, is dependent upon what we pay our DP's.

Orlando is better then us. I saw them as SS winners before the season started and see no reason to change my mind.

We are going to probably end up in 5th -7th. Given how much is going on with this team, I'll take that.

they look bang average and we looked worse.

how are we playing a high line without proper pressure on the ball?

if that's the team expected to win the supporter's shield, then the league is there for the taking this year.

[OgtheDim]

yes yes yes, but as a supporter i am expecting now, not 4 month from now

i want to enjoy some skill and some determination


When Vanney left, something like this was inevitable, especially as we didn't make any changes to what has been our biggest weakness since Drew Moor got hurt in CCL in 2018.

Saw a LOT of determination there tonight - go back & compare it to the NYRB game where we gave up after them scoring a goal. Nobody gave up tonight.


But Gonzalez, who did really well in 2019, isn't the stud CB that we need anymore - I think there is a sunk costs thinking going on with him. The fact we can't seem to grow a decent CB from our academy is also hurting us big time.


I want to be #1. The day Vanney left, our chances of being so this season fell to almost nil.




they look bang average and we looked worse.

....

Its Seattle & Orlando. Somebody else might come out of the pack but defence wins supporters shield & those 2 teams have it.

[Yohan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew1W0ynFMmk

[rydermike]

If anyone wants to watch TFC2, they play at 10 pm game is on Youtube Live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gU7f2yMmbY&ab_channel=USLLeagueOne

[alex andrew]

When Vanney left, something like this was inevitable, especially as we didn't make any changes to what has been our biggest weakness since Drew Moor got hurt in CCL in 2018.

Saw a LOT of determination there tonight - go back & compare it to the NYRB game where we gave up after them scoring a goal. Nobody gave up tonight.


But Gonzalez, who did really well in 2019, isn't the stud CB that we need anymore - I think there is a sunk costs thinking going on with him. The fact we can't seem to grow a decent CB from our academy is also hurting us big time.


I want to be #1. The day Vanney left, our chances of being so this season fell to almost nil.

determination without knowing how to distribute or stop the ball, run, dribble...is nothing

skate better, skate faster, fight harder...i know , i know...

on the other hand, vanney didn't do stellar today

[gracos]

ORL is not better than us...other than on the sideline,they have are a manager we have a gym teacher

correct their are other things our club can spend money on besides players, for example, Coaches, Managers, Physio Therapists, Medical Teams, we need to look at using our money on this, i dont remember any other clubs missing so many players to start their seasons, whether that means getting more friendlies or leaving earlier to head south, as Canada has been dealing with the virus differently than the US; they are multiple poor choices selected by our front office, and they are coming back to bite us, i am more than certain our chances of going for the SS are all gone, but we should have a office especially due to our financial situation getting us the best off field team, whether that means, trading away excess players to loosen salary cap to spend in the next transfer window, or bringing in the proper players, maybe renegotiating contracts or finding other ways to improve flexibility, there are many things which i feel they are avoiding because they refuse to spend outside of the squad

[FootBallAZ]

I think they were the better team but a draw would not have been out of line for that game.

FWIW, we had more shots on target then them & did pretty good getting the ball into dangerous areas. I saw a lot of good interplay between the mids getting the ball forward. We also won the ball a lot. They didn't really have a period of sustained pressure apart from that 5 minutes or so after the goal & a bit around minute 80.

Our problem remains our defence - specifically the ability of people to get behind us, even in the short bursts that are situations like the one that led to their goal. Gonzalez is what we are stuck with this season & it is going to cause us problem every game. Mavinga can only do so much. Anybody but Tesho Akindele up front like that & we give up 3.

Assuming we can get Poz back, and I see no reason to doubt he will play a part in Columbus next week, I'm not worried about our offence.


I think we are a playoff team - I'm not worried about where we sit right now because I think we will get way better as the season goes forward - as did a lot of commentators when this season started, btw.


2 out of 6 was in the last 30 seconds

I'm thinking 5 out of 6 happened after the subs.

And shot on target for me right now is referring to players facing the net with their body and not hitting the net

De Leon,
Shaffleburg


Or the fact when 2 out of 6 shots were from the goaline with not a single player crashing.


Ill also mention the confused look when laryea had no open players to throw the ball into and ended giving right to the other team

Unless this is tfc' s strategy, give the ball away in the middle third or final third of the field and then press ?


Intuiton not making me feel good


Worst part is after last week's non own goal, I had a feeling that Armas would put Bono back in as a way to support him, like in my mind I heard Armas said right then and there, well Bono definitely starting next week, all the goalie vs goalie talk, can't pull Bono now


Lol

[portu]

Being a playoff team in this league really means close to nothing now. They need to start putting up results. We have the players to do it. 1 win from 6 MLS matches isn’t good enough. 2 wins from 10 overall is definitely not good enough.

Pozuelo is back next week and after the break there’s a good run of games for Armas to prove that he can make this team a contender (because that’s what the club believes it should be). The current run isn’t just “Vanney left” and growing pains, it’s straight up piss poor. We’ll see how things iron out in a month or so, but it’s not encouraging. Even when Soteldo and Poz are together it won’t solve the blatant (tactical) defensive issues this team has.

[Smokecell]

Nah that was bad. For a team as close to full strength as we were, we were so far from being a contender.

No tooth in the attack whatsoever. Defending shambolic on the goal. Frustrating team to watch.

[leedsandTFC]

When Vanney left, something like this was inevitable, especially as we didn't make any changes to what has been our biggest weakness since Drew Moor got hurt in CCL in 2018.

Saw a LOT of determination there tonight - go back & compare it to the NYRB game where we gave up after them scoring a goal. Nobody gave up tonight.


But Gonzalez, who did really well in 2019, isn't the stud CB that we need anymore - I think there is a sunk costs thinking going on with him. The fact we can't seem to grow a decent CB from our academy is also hurting us big time.


I want to be #1. The day Vanney left, our chances of being so this season fell to almost nil.





Its Seattle & Orlando. Somebody else might come out of the pack but defence wins supporters shield & those 2 teams have it.

seattle are absolutely miles ahead of orlando. they will win it at a canter this season.

they havent had lodeiro yet and been winning virtually every game.

[alex andrew]

there will be lots of kilopascals on alejandro pozuelo on his return

[ag futbol]

Being a playoff team in this league really means close to nothing now. They need to start putting up results. We have the players to do it. 1 win from 6 MLS matches isn’t good enough. 2 wins from 10 overall is definitely not good enough.

Pozuelo is back next week and after the break there’s a good run of games for Armas to prove that he can make this team a contender (because that’s what the club believes it should be). The current run isn’t just “Vanney left” and growing pains, it’s straight up piss poor. We’ll see how things iron out in a month or so, but it’s not encouraging. Even when Soteldo and Poz are together it won’t solve the blatant (tactical) defensive issues this team has.
Agreed.

Stepping back, how much acceptance should we have of Armas getting time to implement a new system?

Our roster has a better track record in MLS than Armas has as a coach. And it’s far more expensive. His job description should be make the most of what you have, not reinvent the wheel.

[James17930]

Given what we saw with the Raptors this season I can't see us doing very well until the team is back at BMO.

[jloome]

2 out of 6 was in the last 30 seconds

I'm thinking 5 out of 6 happened after the subs.

And shot on target for me right now is referring to players facing the net with their body and not hitting the net

De Leon,
Shaffleburg


Or the fact when 2 out of 6 shots were from the goaline with not a single player crashing.


Ill also mention the confused look when laryea had no open players to throw the ball into and ended giving right to the other team

Unless this is tfc' s strategy, give the ball away in the middle third or final third of the field and then press ?


Intuiton not making me feel good


Worst part is after last week's non own goal, I had a feeling that Armas would put Bono back in as a way to support him, like in my mind I heard Armas said right then and there, well Bono definitely starting next week, all the goalie vs goalie talk, can't pull Bono now


Lol

Three of our six shots on net were in the last six minutes of the game.

We worked hard, but we have no cohesive offence and our team does not know how to break another team down. All we're doing is building supporting triangles and trying to short pass our way to either a cross or a shot from six yards.

A team like Orlando has to be unbalanced. This is a big pitch and we have speed on both flanks; we should have set up in a defensive counter and then moved the ball diagonally quickly to pull their defenders out of position.

If everything you play is either a short pass or a deep cross, you're only predictable, you're always stuck with a man between you and the goal.

Their only goal was when we were unbalanced and Omar ran to his zonal "spot" rather than defending the only man going into the box, as he was the only defender near him. Rather than use his brain, he played totally zonally and the man was left unmarked.

We didn't unbalance them all night. Not once, not until late, when Shaffelburg game on.

His speed and trickiness made a huge difference tonight. If he plays that well on his right foot THEN WHY THE FUCK IS MARK DELGADO PLAYING AS A WINGER.

Our coach is setting us up to fail. We're not mediocre. We had a fucking nine game winning streak with essentially the same roster last year, and were one win off the supporter's shield.

Jury is still out, but so far he is failing. Given his performances in NY, this is so far par for the course.

[CorrwgBach]

Their only goal was when we were unbalanced and Omar ran to his zonal "spot" rather than defending the only man going into the box, as he was the only defender near him. Rather than use his brain, he played totally zonally and the man was left unmarked.


Whilst I think Omar has lost a step, the goal is all on Ritchie, both Mavinga and Omar played a line they expected Ritchie to step up, they left the players go put their hands up, of course it looks terrible. You can see as the header happen Omar look at Ritchie with a WTF.

But it is shambolic, I suspect Westberg is a keeper who would be sharply reminding Ritchie of the situation.

I am worried like most here that the team is not playing together with a plan. Each player just does a bit of his thing with no connection to the rest of the team, they are a really bad Jazz ensemble of great players.

[Auzzy]

What did people think about the yellow card to Soteldo? Especially on the replay, it looked like he touched the ball and not the player. He did dive in, and it didn't look great from a distance but the ref was close enough to see. To me he went in and touched the ball away parallel to the Orlando player, not through him. I thought it wasn't even a foul, let alone a yellow. Soteldo was more tentative on defence and on winning the ball back after that.

On attack, his ability to play through tackles and fouls is pretty amazing.

[djking2]

I've only got one thing,

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Too late

[Auzzy]

Whilst I think Omar has lost a step, the goal is all on Ritchie, both Mavinga and Omar played a line they expected Ritchie to step up, they left the players go put their hands up, of course it looks terrible. You can see as the header happen Omar look at Ritchie with a WTF.

But it is shambolic, I suspect Westberg is a keeper who would be sharply reminding Ritchie of the situation.

I am worried like most here that the team is not playing together with a plan. Each player just does a bit of his thing with no connection to the rest of the team, they are a really bad Jazz ensemble of great players.

I just re-watched the goal. Richie screwed up a bit but he was far from the only one. First of all Mavinga is the only one attacking the guy who crossed, so he's pulled way to the side, at the side of the 18-yard box. I don't like that anyway, TFC does it far too often this season. But even worse nobody else made it back far enough to cover for him in the middle.

Omar & Mavinga actually were nowhere close to a line. At the moment of the cross Omar was even farther back than Richie and keeping 2 Orlando players on-side. (Actually one of them, #9 was also kept onside by the ball.) Plus when the guy putting in a cross is already inside the 18 and four Orlando players are crashing the goal, you cannot ever play for offside. Those attacking the goal will run onto a cross or pass and not be offside, it's way too risky. I'll try to upload a screenshot.

Omar also pulled toward Mavinga's side and then stopped cold on the cross. Plus three TFC midfielders were running back staring at the ball and also heading in that direction, Bradley even made a last-minute sprint towards Omar and the nearside of the goal but also suddenly stopped. None of our MFs noticed the 4 Orlando players crashing the goal, nor did they try to cover a player or that zone. Delgado was the closest to being in a useful position, but even he stopped cold when the cross was hit. I don't know if guys took their queue from Omar or just gave up, but you can't play for offside when the cross has already been kicked.

In the end you had 4 Orlando players in a potential scoring position and only Richie covering near our goal. Two of them were much taller than Richie, and it didn't matter what he did, one of them would have scored. Richie heading towards the far post instead of into the middle was also silly, but far from the only problem here. Compare Orlando when TFC was attacking. They always had a bunch of guys in front of their own net and making life difficult for our attackers. Partly because they are way better organized on defence; partly because TFC hardly ever manages to attack as quickly as Orlando on this goal and to flood the box to gain a numerical advantage.

Here's the moment of the cross, it's not looking pretty:

http://individual.utoronto.ca/ageorgi/TFC-2021-05-23.png

[ag futbol]

^ You’re right, quite a bit going on here.

Multiple breakdowns and always a tough situation because we didn’t have the necessary numbers back.

In Omar’s case he has a lot to deal with. In a situation where everybody is back defending, it makes sense for him to focus on that space in front of the near post like he is during this play. But that’s not what’s happening here, they are countering and we’re scrambling to get things under control. The danger is with Akindele who is tracking down the middle. Now that said, Omar is so slow, if he marks Akindele tightly he probably gets beat to the near post anyway.

An exceptional CB might find a way to sort that out but most wouldn’t. Then again you could argue on Omar’s salary we pay him to be exceptional, not average

[Auzzy]

^ You’re right, quite a bit going on here.

Multiple breakdowns and always a tough situation because we didn’t have the necessary numbers back.

In Omar’s case he has a lot to deal with. In a situation where everybody is back defending, it makes sense for him to focus on that space in front of the near post like he is during this play. But that’s not what’s happening here, they are countering and we’re scrambling to get things under control. The danger is with Akindele who is tracking down the middle. Now that said, Omar is so slow, if he marks Akindele tightly he probably gets beat to the near post anyway.

An exceptional CB might find a way to sort that out but most wouldn’t. Then again you could argue on Omar’s salary we pay him to be exceptional, not average

I agree. I think Omar carries some extra responsibility as a defensive leader, but he is also far from the only problem. You have to watch the whole highlight to see everything that is happening; the screenshot is just at the time of the cross. There is a failure of individuals and the whole system. There have been MANY situations this year where Richie or another FB was totally alone in front of net with a bunch of attackers; we were only lucky to not get scored on more often. I would also argue that once van der Water stops and pulls back, it was clear it would be a cross and not a direct attack on goal. Maybe Bono should have moved in anticipation and collected the looping cross in the box. (Not to put too much blame on Bono either; he's just one cog in a machine that wasn't functioning.)

[ensco]

A breakdown or two a game is pretty much the price of eggs for any pressing system (if you are not Man City).

The problem for me is that we are not generating nearly the chances that a press should be creating. Outside of the Leon games, it hasn’t worked at all. We are scaring nobody when we press, so Orlando can cheat forward. That is the root cause of the mismatch on the goal. You watch the beginning of that goal, Orlando is under pressure at the back but the MFs take off forward, they are not worried about a turnover. That's how they flood the zone.

Our biggest problems are in the opposing end, with the press and on offence. I think you fix that and the defence will snap back.