TFC new manager search

[Oldtimer]

Put any news or speculation here!

[Smokecell]

Diego Alonso anybody?

Bit of a shitshow in Miami but was excellent with Pachuca and Monterrey. Proven in CCL.

(Taken from other thread)

I would support this, but has he actually been fired by Miami?

EDIT: it's fresh off the press - he's out at Miami.

[Ultra & Proud]

(Taken from other thread)

I would support this, but has he actually been fired by Miami?
He was today for Neville.

I would take him. He is better than all the other names mentioned and has a great track record.

[ag futbol]

I would take him too. Don’t blame him I’m the slightest for Miami’s first year performance.

He’d be a good manager with our roster. More pragmatic than Vanney but not outright defensive by any means.

[Ultra & Proud]

I would take him too. Don’t blame him I’m the slightest for Miami’s first year performance.

He’d be a good manager with our roster. More pragmatic than Vanney but not outright defensive by any means.
I thought he did well considering that team not being able to score. Yeah there wee 10 teams in the playoffs from the east but they lost a bunch of 1 goal matches and they're a far cry from year 1 Minnesota or every year Cinci.

[noxx98]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/07/steve-cherundolo-coach-mls/

Interview with Steve Cherundolo about wanting to be the head coach of an MLS team. He says that he’s had conversations with MLS teams about head coaching opportunities.

[Yohan]

I would take him too. Don’t blame him I’m the slightest for Miami’s first year performance.

He’d be a good manager with our roster. More pragmatic than Vanney but not outright defensive by any means.
I dunno if Diego Alonso wants to manage in MLS anymore though.

Apparently he had a end of season meeting with the ownership which went so bad that Alonso thought he got sacked and told a bunch of staff. Inter Miami ownership said he wasn't fired. Then today Diego Alonso 'mutually terminated'.

lol

I'd be totally ok with Diego Alonso though. Certainly he's got a better resume than the names being pandered around now

[Luanda]

As I said in the closed thread..."Sign him up!"

[portu]

I like Diego Alonso much more than Armas or Olsen.

[Ultra & Proud]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/07/steve-cherundolo-coach-mls/

Interview with Steve Cherundolo about wanting to be the head coach of an MLS team. He says that he’s had conversations with MLS teams about head coaching opportunities.
I'm assuming he will go to DC United if he doesn't mind low pay just to get some first team mangerial experience. Pinedo & Armas apparently both walked on DC for what is presumed to be low wage offers. They're notorious cheapskates so not only will the manager get low pay (Olsen was on $400K), they will also not give a lot of money to build the roster.

Olsen has been gone since October 8th, they've managed nothing in 2 months since then, and they've already stolen our patented "2 weeks" maneuvre https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/01/report-dc-united-hire-us-based-coach-next-two-weeks . In the end, I will laugh if they just re-hire Olsen and I actually saw that rumored as he is, because it's DCU, on their candidate list.

[reggie]

Replying to
@SoccerInsider
Ben Olsen has begun DCU front-office work in an advisory role, Levien said. Olsen did interview for Toronto job, but he's not a finalist. Long friendship with GM Ali Curtis led to that. I don't have any inside knowledge at TFC, but I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Armas is hired
some info from steven goff

[OgtheDim]

I take the first bit as true, about Olsen.

I doubt its Armas.

[James17930]

So in the meantime, who's preparing training camp right now?

[reggie]

I take the first bit as true, about Olsen.

I doubt its Armas.
I agree if it was Armas it would be done by now

[SirBobSaget]

I dunno if Diego Alonso wants to manage in MLS anymore though.

Apparently he had a end of season meeting with the ownership which went so bad that Alonso thought he got sacked and told a bunch of staff. Inter Miami ownership said he wasn't fired. Then today Diego Alonso 'mutually terminated'.

lol

I'd be totally ok with Diego Alonso though. Certainly he's got a better resume than the names being pandered around now

Considering ownership quickly replaced Alonso with Phil Neville, I'm going to assume the shit-show aspect of the season end meeting was coming in from the ownership side. They seem to be out of touch given that absurd appointment.

[spe18]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/10/dc-united-ceo-jason-levien-provides-update-clubs-ongoing-head-coaching-search

As for Olsen, Levien said he’s “already advising us on soccer-related decisions” in a still-developing front-office role, including weighing in on the coaching search and the construction of the club’s training facility. According to Washington Post's Steve Goff, Olsen reportedly interviewed for the Toronto FC coaching position, but is not considered a finalist. MLSsoccer.com reports Armas also had multiple interviews (https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/31/sources-chris-armas-interviews-toronto-fc-head-coaching-job) about the Toronto FC vacancy.

[MikeForbes]

I would think whoever it is will be announced (or atleast leaked by the media) this week.

[MikeForbes]

So, there are some foreign twitter accounts either leeching off Rollins reports or independently reporting that Vieira could be TFC's manager.

https://www.diez.hn/mls/1434934-498/patrick-vieira-es-fuerte-candidato-para-dirigir-a-toronto-fc-de-la-mls?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

[reggie]

i tend to side with KJ on this one that veira will not be the gaffer

[ag futbol]

I appreciate KJ and all but if I recall correctly there has been at least one instance where he was proved wrong and rather than admit fault he pointed to some tiny technicality. Something like “well the contract wasn’t out when I tweeted so the deal wasn’t imminent although it eventually happened”

Anyway, based on everything I’ve heard so far I’d be surprised if it’s Viera.

[James17930]

How about this:

Victor Vasquez.

[ag futbol]

I would probably ask Cheyrou first if we were going that route. In fact, not sure why he hasn’t had his name floated already.

I do worry with certain coaching candidates, MLS experience or not, the world they come from football wise is too far away from the low end nature of MLS. The players just cannot do what they ask so they get disappointed and quit.

[OgtheDim]

I would probably ask Cheyrou first if we were going that route. In fact, not sure why he hasn’t had his name floated already.

...

I seem to recall his family like Canada but prefer France - Victor is another matter. Worth a punt as an assistant.

[TFC_905]

The three finalists Steve Cherubdolo, steve Caldwell, and Chris Armas.
Expect the coach to be one of these three

[mowe]

The three finalists Steve Cherubdolo, steve Caldwell, and Chris Armas.
Expect the coach to be one of these three

Interesting, hadn't considered Caldwell. Not exactly a murderers' row.

[MikeForbes]

Caldwell? Seriously...?

[MikeForbes]

Where exactly did you see this information? Or are you just speculating?

[reggie]

Interesting, hadn't considered Caldwell. Not exactly a murderers' row.

wow...kinda underwhelming but typical of ali s pay grade.

[DavemTFC]

Where exactly did you see this information? Or are you just speculating?
yeah I'm calling bullshit. Hiring Caldwell would be too dumb a move for even Mo Johnston to make

[Kamp Berg]

yeah I'm calling bullshit. Hiring Caldwell would be too dumb a move for even Mo Johnston to make

Caldwell seems so out of touch just commenting on a game, let alone managing.

[MightyDM]

Caldwell seems so out of touch just commenting on a game, let alone managing.

he did Captain Sunderland, Burnley, Birmingham, TFC and Scotland (part of a match). Does know something about the game and has quietly been working on his coaching. I wouldn't have thought he was the guy but when he was a player most on these boards praised his tenacity work ethic etc etc.

[Kamp Berg]

he did Captain Sunderland, Burnley, Birmingham, TFC and Scotland (part of a match). Does know something about the game and has quietly been working on his coaching. I wouldn't have thought he was the guy but when he was a player most on these boards praised his tenacity work ethic etc etc.

I’m not questioning his knowledge of the game or what kind of a player he was, but he criticizes tfc constantly and always speaks highly of other teams when commenting. I worry he wouldn’t be able to motivate players and would quickly lose the room. I hope to God I’m wrong but I certainly wouldn’t be feeling very confident if he was chosen.
On a personal note, I met him once and he seemed like a bit of a self absorbed douche. I got the feeling that he had an old school, hard ass type personality, doesn’t play so well with the younger generation. Maybe a bad day, but it didn’t leave a good impression.

[ag futbol]

he did Captain Sunderland, Burnley, Birmingham, TFC and Scotland (part of a match). Does know something about the game and has quietly been working on his coaching. I wouldn't have thought he was the guy but when he was a player most on these boards praised his tenacity work ethic etc etc.
He revels too much in that old school, get-stuck-in approach. It hindered him in his later years as a player and would certainly do the same disservice as a coach.

Zero interest.

[NK Toronto]

Has Caldwell ever coached a pro men's team?

[spe18]

Has Caldwell ever coached a pro men's team?

Plus does he have one of those coaching licenses?

[reggie]

he has been helping out with the CNMT

[Blizzard]

I’m not questioning his knowledge of the game or what kind of a player he was, but he criticizes tfc constantly and always speaks highly of other teams when commenting. I worry he wouldn’t be able to motivate players and would quickly lose the room. I hope to God I’m wrong but I certainly wouldn’t be feeling very confident if he was chosen.
On a personal note, I met him once and he seemed like a bit of a self absorbed douche. I got the feeling that he had an old school, hard ass type personality, doesn’t play so well with the younger generation. Maybe a bad day, but it didn’t leave a good impression.

That may be a little bit rough. I've chatted with him on several occasions and he has always come across as friendly, chatty and courteous.

[OgtheDim]

Caldwell is about as qualified as Nelsen, and the results would likely match.

[DaviRed]

I cosign to what OgtheDim said as I personally I'm baffled that a premium club in MLS like Toronto FC can't attract a higher quality of coach from the world stage, honestly no disrespect to any of the 3 names mentioned above however my level of expectation from an outfit like MLSE is everything they do is Top Tier quality & nothing else will suffice. Why not have Manning announced that they have an interim tag place on one of the guys who worked under Greg till at least summertime where I'm certain more options will become available.... I would honestly have zero issue with that

[Super]

At minimum we need a coach who has had a head coaching job previously at MLS or above level. That leaves Chris Armas. Definitely not a high profile signing, but at least he has MLS coaching experience.

[reggie]

I cosign to what OgtheDim said as I personally I'm baffled that a premium club in MLS like Toronto FC can't attract a higher quality of coach from the world stage, honestly no disrespect to any of the 3 names mentioned above however my level of expectation from an outfit like MLSE is everything they do is Top Tier quality & nothing else will suffice. Why not have Manning announced that they have an interim tag place on one of the guys who worked under Greg till at least summertime where I'm certain more options will become available.... I would honestly have zero issue with that

that is what you get when the management is USL caliber,they have no cache in the world of futbol

[Kamp Berg]

Ali is starting to remind me of one of those rich dads who makes a big deal of promising their kid a car at 16, everyone expects it will be a Porsche, until he shows up with a 98’ Toyota Tercel 😂

[Kamp Berg]

That may be a little bit rough. I've chatted with him on several occasions and he has always come across as friendly, chatty and courteous.

That’s fair, I had a very small sample to draw an opinion.

[James17930]

I cosign to what OgtheDim said as I personally I'm baffled that a premium club in MLS like Toronto FC can't attract a higher quality of coach from the world stage, honestly no disrespect to any of the 3 names mentioned above however my level of expectation from an outfit like MLSE is everything they do is Top Tier quality & nothing else will suffice. Why not have Manning announced that they have an interim tag place on one of the guys who worked under Greg till at least summertime where I'm certain more options will become available.... I would honestly have zero issue with that

This is what's kind of surprising me too. Maybe I'm (we're) just biased, but I honestly thought that TFC had grown to a stature where we could attract decent-level coaches from anywhere in the world. Didn't someone text KJ that TFC was "the best job in MLS"? I guess it must have just been Olsen. lol

So yeah, I'm feeling kind of disappointed. And I still don't know why they can't/won't consider Bent, or do their damnedest to get Fraser back.

But then, if there are no other options ... I actually don't mind giving Caldwell a shot. At least he knows the club inside and out, and I get the feeling he'd be the type of guy to put his foot down and challenge anything that's not working (like the insistence on certain players in certain formations, for example). Plus he does have coaching experience, albeit at the international level. If we can't get someone more experienced, it'd be worth a punt, I'd say.

[ag futbol]

he has been helping out with the CNMT
But what is that, really?

While guys like Bent or Dichio actually go out and pursue a career and get hands on experience, Caldwell “occasionally” helps with a team that is basically never active and to be frank, doesn’t appear to be very well coached.

I wouldn’t even grant him an interview, let alone hire him for the job. The discussion should be a non starter.

[Bushmancan]

That’s fair, I had a very small sample to draw an opinion.

How does he move from being the Colour commentator, who has publicly criticized (merited or not) players on field performance and with no real success at MLS or coaching in general, manage the team? Assistant as a very long shot but not as the Gaffer.

[Stress]

You have to give the FO and Ali some slack here. They have a very difficult task in selling a top coach in the current situation. Have to assume much of this season (if it happens) will be on the road away from family and the teams dedicated facilities. Also, given the financial situation, do you really want to splash absurd cash just to get someone over the line?

IMO they should go with an interim known quantity for this season and buy some more time to let the Covid impact lessen. My vote is Dunfield lol.

[Bushmancan]

You have to give the FO and Ali some slack here. They have a very difficult task in selling a top coach in the current situation. Have to assume much of this season (if it happens) will be on the road away from family and the teams dedicated facilities. Also, given the financial situation, do you really want to splash absurd cash just to get someone over the line?

IMO they should go with an interim known quantity for this season and buy some more time to let the Covid impact lessen. My vote is Dunfield lol.


No that is fair and respectfully I just think Caldwell is not the guy. Just my opinion of course but if you want to coach get some experience but not at what should be one of the top 5 teams in MLS. We still haven't qualified for CCL and that cannot be taken for granted.

[Richard]

Is Dichio still with the club? Maybe give him a shot.

[OgtheDim]

Is Dichio still with the club? Maybe give him a shot.

IIRC, he has no interest in coaching adults.

[MikeForbes]

Chris Armas it looks to be.

https://twitter.com/TransfersMLS/status/1349170944884011013?s=20

[reggie]

if true...i wonder if we are going to play a NYRB pressing style?

[Kamp Berg]

Chris Armas it looks to be.

https://twitter.com/TransfersMLS/status/1349170944884011013?s=20

Not sounding like a ‘big club’ signing to me. Sounds like who you pick if you can’t get anyone better.

[OgtheDim]

Hmm....I blocked that account for not telling the truth about transfers

[RealG-TFC]

While it is disappointing at first glance, I do prefer Armas over Olsen and he might a good guy to play the youth like Vanney did. I do fear that this team still has the potential to win something now which wasn't the case with Vanney in 2014. We don't have the luxury of waiting for Armas to grow into the position.

[MightyDM]

At minimum we need a coach who has had a head coaching job previously at MLS or above level. That leaves Chris Armas. Definitely not a high profile signing, but at least he has MLS coaching experience.

Apparently you are prescient...

[OgtheDim]

One tweet, and I'll say it again

I specifically blocked that account because it fabricates stuff

When somebody else has the news, then I'll consider it


but not from that one guy.

[burlington Red]

I’m not questioning his knowledge of the game or what kind of a player he was, but he criticizes tfc constantly and always speaks highly of other teams when commenting. I worry he wouldn’t be able to motivate players and would quickly lose the room. I hope to God I’m wrong but I certainly wouldn’t be feeling very confident if he was chosen.
On a personal note, I met him once and he seemed like a bit of a self absorbed douche. I got the feeling that he had an old school, hard ass type personality, doesn’t play so well with the younger generation. Maybe a bad day, but it didn’t leave a good impression.


I have met him several times and he's always been super nice, as you say maybe a bad day for him when you met him

[Kamp Berg]

I have met him several times and he's always been super nice, as you say maybe a bad day for him when you met him

I’m sure how much I dislike his commentary probably coloured my impression of him. I just can’t understand how someone can spew so much negativity about a team they are supposedly supporting.

[Phil744]

RT @TransfersMLS: A source has told me that Chris Armas to Toronto is happening. #TorontoFC

[Areathrasher]

Going to be announced at 11 if these hints are right

https://twitter.com/DesaiDevang/status/1349380270840045574?s=19

https://twitter.com/Eric_Giacometti/status/1349379439608664065?s=19

[Oldtimer]

All those people who wanted #vanneyout because of course a big European coach would come instead? If this is true, here's the reality check. Better than Vanney? Not likely.

[Mikmacdo]

Armas is definitely the guy. Ali connection from nyrb. Let's see what he can do with a bigger budget.

Oh and lol at ppl wanting Caldwell to coach. He's an awful commentator and has 0 experience as a coach. I'd prefer if he just disappeared altogether.

[TFC/Everton]

Alright, Armas is our man.

Not my first choice, but what the heck do I know.

Time to support our new manager!!!

[Areathrasher]

KJ has confirmed he's been appointed

[MikeForbes]

Hopefully KJ has an account that is good enough!

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1349386286348595204?s=20

[Canary10]

Not sure what I think, but he did win a Supporters Shield with NYRB and seems to be good bringing in youth. Will be interesting to see what he can do with a budget. I'm glad he's got MLS experience, I think that's important. And I'm excited with the idea of a high press if that's how he sets up, although I'm not sure we have the team for that at the moment. Time will tell I guess.

[MikeForbes]

The happiest people about this news seem to be DCU fans.

[OgtheDim]

Hopefully KJ has an account that is good enough!

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1349386286348595204?s=20


I trust him.

As I said, that other account has been telling porkies.




***********

Not impressed. When other teams fans are happy your choice is off the table, you have to think. Will give him a chance and listen to him but...

this is a downgrade

[Phil744]

First of all its big shoes to fill taking this Head Coaching position and right now I'm not a strong fan of this decision. It also does not look that great because Ali just hired his buddy as our new head coach I would of preferred a more experienced coach rather then Armas. But at the same time Vanney did prove what i just said wrong with not a lot of experience at all so what do i know.

[Red CB Toronto]

Not impressed to be honest, feels like a downgrade even when compared to Greg, but then again who was Greg as a coach when the Reds hired him, so we shall see.

[ag futbol]

I trust him.

As I said, that other account has been telling porkies.




***********

Not impressed. When other teams fans are happy your choice is off the table, you have to think. Will give him a chance and listen to him but...

this is a downgrade
I feel like I’ve said this about everything for the last 18 months only to be disappointed but... let’s see how this works out. I don’t love it but at face value, he has experience and hopefully learned from it. NBNY didn’t exactly implode under his watch.

Now that said, I give this search process a failing grade. It was the equivalent of staring at 28 flavours of ice cream behind the window and three hours later deciding you want vanilla.

My general impression is Ali Curtis has a way of doing business that is very corporate and doesn’t fit with the reality of the footballing world or our place in it. None of this bodes well in our search for players in the market.

[reggie]

so much for the that wide world search,i guess ali will find our new dp at the MLS draft next week.
like i said before curtis and manning are usl caliber and have no world futbol cache

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Between Ali, Armas and Altidore (assuming we have a repeat of last year from him) I'm kind of glad I won't be spending money to come see games in person for the foreseeable future.

I was in the "shit there's no way we're going to improve on Vanney" camp and this move certainly doesn't impress.

[ag futbol]

so much for the that wide world search,i guess ali will find our new dp at the MLS draft next week.
Just look for the most obvious, underwhelming, (and probably American) player in the market that fits the bill.

Then wait three months while we close the deal at the pace of a career bureaucrat, riding a turtle, in rush hour traffic, after a snow storm.

[OgtheDim]

One mitigating factor in all this

We don't know if we will even have home games this year. Hard to attract somebody.


But...but....

[MightyDM]

Armas is definitely the guy. Ali connection from nyrb. Let's see what he can do with a bigger budget.

Oh and lol at ppl wanting Caldwell to coach. He's an awful commentator and has 0 experience as a coach. I'd prefer if he just disappeared altogether.

Just to complete this, it was a media or twitter report that Caldwell was being interviewed that led to the discussion - people were very negative about him personally and I intervened because he was a good servant for this club as a player and didn't deserve the extreme negativity. I don't think anyone on these boards suggested that he should coach.

[Canary10]

Just look for the most obvious, underwhelming, (and probably American) player in the market that fits the bill.

Then wait three months while we close the deal at the pace of a career bureaucrat, riding a turtle, in rush hour traffic, after a snow storm.

I think it's BWP.

[MightyDM]

One mitigating factor in all this

We don't know if we will even have home games this year. Hard to attract somebody.


But...but....


As always Og, you have nailed it. We have transitioned to a medium budget team. Not quite the transition the Jays made in '94 - '95, when they went from big budget huge attendance winning team that was competing with Yankees and Red Sox for talent to small budget low attendance losers for 20 years - but one we need to watch carefully. Manning and team have demonstrated good history in the league on moderate budgets but not on bringing in Seba, VV, Bradley or Jozy level talent. Developing Canadian talent is exciting and a plus for me, but so is winning.

[Bushmancan]

First of all its big shoes to fill taking this Head Coaching position and right now I'm not a strong fan of this decision. It also does not look that great because Ali just hired his buddy as our new head coach I would of preferred a more experienced coach rather then Armas. But at the same time Vanney did prove what i just said wrong with not a lot of experience at all so what do i know.

I think the biggest statement is that Armas is from Ali's past and with that said he did win a Shield. So I will give Armas a chance and a high press would be fun.

The jury is still out on Ali though....and more importantly TFC's future. The biggest impact for us will be from Ali. If he thinks he can run this on a budget and win and that is what the board wants to hear, I think we are screwed based on Ali's track record. I am excited about our youth but we also have a team that can win now.

I think what really pisses me off more is we are co-hosting the 2026 World Cup and now is the time to grow Football. It starts with strong teams... Montreal and Vancouver are a mess the one Star (no pun intended) was TFC.

I really hope I am wrong.

[Smokecell]

Wow. Didn't think they'd do it but they did. Uninspired hire but hopefully he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

[Bobo]

In a worldwide pandemic, it may have been unreasonable to expect a worthwhile overseas manager to take the leap, to a Canadian team especially, with all the uncertainty surrounding logistics. At least the club can now focus on improving the first team.

[ag futbol]

I think it's BWP.
That’s crazy talk. We all know it’s Sacha Kljestan :)

[portu]

All those people who wanted #vanneyout because of course a big European coach would come instead? If this is true, here's the reality check. Better than Vanney? Not likely.
I’d probably be classified as one of those people. Big reality check. I’m not impressed at all by Armas. We’ll see how this goes and he’ll get the benefit of the doubt from me. Will be interested to see if he plays the press with us. Poz can probably do it, but playing Jozy in a press seems like a recipe for Glass Man to break a few more times than usual in 2021.

[TFC1154ever]

Of course, as @joshuakloke and I have mentioned, there was a sense around MLS that Ali Curtis and Bill Manning wouldn't want a coach who would demand a lot of roster control. Not getting more control was part of why Vanney left, from what I'm told.

Armas probably isn't that guy.

From Sam Stejskal. This is a bit worrying. I thought the Vanney stuff was because he wanted go home. If this is part of the reason, this scares the shit out of me.

We are at a tipping point. Either this is going to ugly this season, or Curtis finally brings in the right pieces, and Armas surprises us.

Gun to my head, it think it’s the former.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the biggest statement is that Armas is from Ali's past and with that said he did win a Shield. So I will give Armas a chance and a high press would be fun.

I agree a solid press will be fun and we did need to change our ways from the dull, pointless possession game we fell in love with for the past few seasons but we do not have the roster to play the RB press. First off Altidore has to go followed by a lot of regulars. The slowest, least fit team in the league isn't going to be able to run any sort of press well unless the right players are there to do it. I assume we're going all in on the youth thing which should make some people happy. Now let's toss Fraser at CB and get on with it.

[MightyDM]

Didn't Armas inherit the press? We might not move to it, and as others have suggested, it's a different roster. Over Vanney's time, our roster has been super fit but injury prone; skillful but not speedy. It is now also old. None of that suggests a press.

Perosnally, I would like to see Bielsa style pressing here and man to man marking. Leeds can be incredible particularly given who is on their roster - but we wont see that!

[Bushmancan]

I’d probably be classified as one of those people. Big reality check. I’m not impressed at all by Armas. We’ll see how this goes and he’ll get the benefit of the doubt from me. Will be interested to see if he plays the press with us. Poz can probably do it, but playing Jozy in a press seems like a recipe for Glass Man to break a few more times than usual in 2021.

I am banking on Achara and Akinola being healthy and another DP... I can dream. :)

[portu]

Of course, as @joshuakloke and I have mentioned, there was a sense around MLS that Ali Curtis and Bill Manning wouldn't want a coach who would demand a lot of roster control. Not getting more control was part of why Vanney left, from what I'm told.

Armas probably isn't that guy.

From Sam Stejskal. This is a bit worrying. I thought the Vanney stuff was because he wanted go home. If this is part of the reason, this scares the shit out of me.

We are at a tipping point. Either this is going to ugly this season, or Curtis finally brings in the right pieces, and Armas surprises us.

Gun to my head, it think it’s the former.
Wow. Imagine you have a coach that’s won a ridiculous amount of awards and some fresh hire GM that got bounced from his own project at his last club.... And you side with the GM.

[Canary10]

That’s crazy talk. We all know it’s Sacha Kljestan :)

Yes you're right. Where was my head?!

[Ultra & Proud]

Of course, as @joshuakloke and I have mentioned, there was a sense around MLS that Ali Curtis and Bill Manning wouldn't want a coach who would demand a lot of roster control. Not getting more control was part of why Vanney left, from what I'm told.

Armas probably isn't that guy.

From Sam Stejskal. This is a bit worrying. I thought the Vanney stuff was because he wanted go home. If this is part of the reason, this scares the shit out of me.

We are at a tipping point. Either this is going to ugly this season, or Curtis finally brings in the right pieces, and Armas surprises us.

Gun to my head, it think it’s the former.

Armas also Tech Director so he will have some roster say and the roster will have to be constructed to play whatever style he wants us to play (press obviously). This season should be pretty ugly because as I said above, we're the slowest, least fit team in the league (history?) and I doubt we can manage an Aron WInter level of roster turnover before the season starts. I expect a whole lot of muscle injuries, CF whining, and players chasing shadows in 2021.

[Ultra & Proud]

Didnt Armas inherit the press?
It's what he ran in their academy & first team and he did inherit it but there's no history of him ever doing anything else so that's all we have to base him on. In that regard at least we know he can implement that. No clue if he could do anything more forward thinking.

[jloome]

Not impressed. When other teams fans are happy your choice is off the table, you have to think. Will give him a chance and listen to him but...

this is a downgrade


Agreed. Not just likely a downgrade in ability, based on Armas' work in NY, but in ambition. He'll have to do really well, really quickly or it's back to the big ugly days, because we sat through nine years of incompetent horseshit before Vanney.

I'd go as far as to say that with the roster we have and continuity, if we're not a top three club at the half of next season, fire the fucking lot. We don't need to be taking steps back to MLS 1.0

[Shway]

I'll reserve my judgements of him, as I did with the inexperience Vanney had when he came to the job. The difference is that we aren't "desperate" to win, "the guys" are older and will have a direct influence, and the focus is for use to our younger guys.

While the signing doesn't excite me, I'm also not perplexed as having a "big name" signing because I believe they would be adverse in using our great academy. Which is the focus of Ali Curtis.

Lets be honest, Chris Armas may have not done well at NYRB, but neither would Vanney or any other manager with that team!

[ensco]

Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)

But i was wrong in thinking that Manning wouldn't let it be just someone from Ali's network.

It's a bit bizarre, because it sounds like what got Armas in trouble in NY was deviating from the style that Ali and Marsch were using
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/04/new-york-red-bulls-emphasize-identity-ambition-splitting-chris-armas-charles-boehm

I think it's impossible to have a big opinion.

What I like: Armas knows MLS. This counts for a lot. He has a similar but actually better resume compared to what Vanney had. Armas is respected generally. NYRB is a revolving door, getting canned there says nothing. I thought Vanney would have trouble commanding the room, but it wasn't an issue.

What worries me: The Kaku saga, not sure Armas can handle the "disrespect" that comes with "handling" elite talent. Will the next "Pozo" want to come and play for him? Vanney was very gracious about the fact that Seba and Jozy blew him off a lot.

What worries me more: Armas had a low payroll team, this looks like an unambitious small market, low payroll hire. (It may not be. But it looks like it.)

What worries me most: Ali is now driving. I fear, despite the apparent symmetry, he just isn't Bez, not even close. If Ali's going to drive us into a ditch, it starts now.

[OgtheDim]

Another thought

This is now Bill Manning's team fully. Curtis is his VP/GM & Armas is his coach. Both will have a LOT of loyalty to Manning because both were on the scrap heap.

[Areathrasher]

Just a note on the playing style at NYRB - it's dictated by global HQ. All the Red Bull teams are pressers.

So

1. It wouldn't have been Curtis/Marsch/Armas decision to play that way - they were told to
2. Deviating from it would be grounds for a shit canning

[JoesphNdo]

I'll go in with an open mind but man nothing that's happened recently with FO has impressed me much in a long while. I stand by the fact that the criticism of the man was on here was absolutely batshit insane and that Tim Bezbatchenko was the best thing to ever happen this club and losing him was the biggest disaster in recent memory. Everything since Ali Curtis has come in in terms of decisions and everything that happened at Columbus since he went there has only made that clearer

[ag futbol]

Just a note on the playing style at NYRB - it's dictated by global HQ. All the Red Bull teams are pressers.

So

1. It wouldn't have been Curtis/Marsch/Armas decision to play that way - they were told to
2. Deviating from it would be grounds for a shit canning
Some Twitter chatter that he’s not into pressing as much as he is outright defensive. Not sure if true but that in no way fits our roster or the players in our pipeline.

We need someone can at least partially work within the system we have. Otherwise we’re looking at a multi-year rebuild.

[GlenM]

TFC New Coach Chris Armas

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/1/13/22228894/breaking-toronto-fc-reportedly-appoint-chris-armas-as-head-coach

GlenM

[Areathrasher]

Some Twitter chatter that he’s not into pressing as much as he is outright defensive. Not sure if true but that in no way fits our roster or the players in our pipeline.

We need someone can at least partially work within the system we have. Otherwise we’re looking at a multi-year rebuild.

My interpretation is that when he stuck with the system Marsch had in place, results were good (The Shield). When he started to try and become his own man so to speak, it all sort of went tits up.

Oh wells, at least its not Olsen

[mowe]

Well ... let’s hope for the best.

[Canary10]

Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)

But i was wrong in thinking that Manning wouldn't let it be just someone from Ali's network.

It's a bit bizarre, because it sounds like what got Armas in trouble in NY was deviating from the style that Ali and Marsch were using
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/04/new-york-red-bulls-emphasize-identity-ambition-splitting-chris-armas-charles-boehm

I think it's impossible to have a big opinion.

What I like: Armas knows MLS. This counts for a lot. He has a similar but actually better resume compared to what Vanney had. Armas is respected generally. NYRB is a revolving door, getting canned there says nothing. I thought Vanney would have trouble commanding the room, but it wasn't an issue.

What worries me: The Kaku saga, not sure Armas can handle the "disrespect" that comes with "handling" elite talent. Will the next "Pozo" want to come and play for him? Vanney was very gracious about the fact that Seba and Jozy blew him off a lot.

What worries me more: Armas had a low payroll team, this looks like an unambitious small market, low payroll hire. (It may not be. But it looks like it.)

What worries me most: Ali is now driving. I fear, despite the apparent symmetry, he just isn't Bez, not even close. If Ali's going to drive us into a ditch, it starts now.

I think this is what worries me. Feels like this hiring lacks ambition. Also feels to me like the team is becoming...not sure how to say it....provincial? Our leadership seems focused on what it knows in its limited circle. With Leiweke we had the gall to look at big markets and think we could pry a few high level players away. Doesn't seem like we have that anymore.

[Initial B]

I'll reserve judgement on the Armas hire, but this does not speak well to Ali Curtis that he can't entice a manager outside of his own contact network to come coach TFC. It also doesn't raise my opinion of Manning as president to not expect more from Curtis' club vision.

Even the initials of the trio A-C-M portends a bad omen that we are going to see a repeat of the Anselmi, Cochrane and Mariner era.

[MikeForbes]

So, whatever. Armas is our manager now and we gotta get behind him since they aren't gonna fire him because we are underwhelmed.

[levyashin]

This hire is totally on Manning and Curtis so i intend to chill for 6 months and see what direction they intend to go.
If after this time TFC are in the lower reaches of the Eastern Conference then it will be time to go after management.
Just idol speculation will Bradley Delgado pick a name be in LA this season after the events of the past 2 months .
Out with the old in with the (Manning,Curtis,Armas)prodigy’s.
Thankfully we will not be in the stadium for 6 months.

[OgtheDim]

I'm not worried about the style of play changing because of one man

Pozuelo

The most expensive piece on this team

the MVP of the league

the guy who makes this team tick over

the shining jewel signing of the Manning/Curtis era



Its his team

NOW....2024, if Armas is still around and Poz is gone (likely in my head) then things may change.

[jloome]

I think this is what worries me. Feels like this hiring lacks ambition. Also feels to me like the team is becoming...not sure how to say it....provincial? Our leadership seems focused on what it knows in its limited circle. With Leiweke we had the gall to look at big markets and think we could pry a few high level players away. Doesn't seem like we have that anymore.

Once in-person games are a thing again, it will be incumbent on supporters, again, to remind these people that failing repeatedly isn't acceptable to the fan base.

We were practically divided and damn near rioting by the end of the last shitshow era. It would be nice to avoid all that antipathy again by letting them know early that there is NO acceptable adjustment period; he's getting a damn-near finished article team with only tweaks needed.

If they can't win right away, they all need to go. Fuck this "we'll build it our way" bullshit that comes up every time a front office underachieves in Football.

[Ultra & Proud]

How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that? Presumably the young prospects Curtis signed to the first team that sat and rotted on the subs bench will get a shot now.

[jloome]

How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that? Presumably the young prospects Curtis signed to the first team that sat and rotted on the subs bench will get a shot now.

I trusted Vanney's judgement on who should and shouldn't play. I mean, Fraser has had more than twenty starts with the main club now over three seasons and has never shown a lick. Prso and Nelson showed more in their first two games than he ever has. Same goes with the frequently absent TAM winger who clearly, clearly was not MLS material.

Do we really WANT someone who'll play guys a championship manager had no faith in? It's not like they didn't get shots.

I hope it's more a case of making the most of the ones that DO work out, as Priso clearly has and will.

The other day, Doyle wrote one of his "what they should do" pieces on MLSsoccer, and suggested they should turn Fraser into a center back... a position he has rarely played, despite his only discernible strength at the top level being his passing.

Really, so little is known about his MLS-level capabilities that I have to seriously question at this point if they exist.

[jloome]

Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)


Somebody save us from five more years of uninspired corporate mediocrity.

[Ultra & Proud]

he's getting a damn-near finished article team with only tweaks needed.

If they can't win right away, they all need to go.

I don't agree with this. We had a flawed line up that was slow as hell. That was something that needed addressing sooner or later and we're not getting any younger (or faster). Bottom line, we're not winning anything with Altidore as a DP forward. He is an anchor around the team's neck. Might as well accept that and start rebuilding with some speed until his contract expires.

However that depends on what actual Armas-ball looks like. I assume press still as it's what he knows but it's true that is mandated by RB HQ. If it's anything other than our standard slow, predictible possession game then we won't have the players to play it well and we won't be great and even if Armas plays 100% Vanney-ball, I don't think we will be great either. I think the curtain was closing on this era of TFC. I was hoping for someone great to switch the styles but we get sub-mediocre Armas and it is what it is. At least he'll play young guys.

[jloome]

Bottom line, we're not winning anything with Altidore as a DP forward. He is an anchor around the team's neck. Might as well accept that and start rebuilding with some speed until his contract expires.

While I agree we're not where we need to be to be contending the league annually, we were three points ahead in the Supporters Shield race with three games left... With the entire season played on the road.

We should be winning from day one. This should not become a losing team. That's not a high standard to demand given our roster.

[Ultra & Proud]

The other day, Doyle wrote one of his "what they should do" pieces on MLSsoccer, and suggested they should turn Fraser into a center back... a position he has rarely played, despite his only discernible strength at the top level being his passing.

This is exactly why I think he should be converted along with his turtle pace. Modern football needs CBs who can think fast and make decisive passes. He can do this and I think he could be a decent CB if he worked on his positioning and tackling (more when not to tackle then actual tackling though).

[jloome]

This is exactly why I think he should be converted along with his turtle pace. Modern football needs CBs who can think fast and make decisive passes. He can do this and I think he could be a decent CB if he worked on his positioning and tackling (more when not to tackle then actual tackling though).

Nobody coming into MLS level should have to work on their positioning and tackling to play a particular role. It's too late for that unless he's a prodigy athlete, and he clearly isn't.

Priso and Nelson, it was obvious the first time they stepped on a pitch for us that they could at least think at the speed of the game. He's shown us nothing. How can we know he'd be a good center back when his entire role for us has been shuttling the ball.

I don't doubt a good passing center back is important, it's half of why they got Omar and one of Mavinga's strengths, too. But he's shown us nothing but average number 8 shuttler skills so far.

I don't prescribe to this notion that somehow Vanney was holding back swaths of missing talent. None of the guys who've washed out with us has made it anywhere else other than Mark Anthony Kaye and he was scrubbed by Rongen at the TFCII level.

A lack of youth moving up doesn't mean necessarily that someone is holding them back. It can also mean whoever is developing them isn't doing a very good job. Given that more Sigma youth are making it into the league fulltime than TFC academy youth, there's probably something to the notion that the problem is at an earlier level than the first team.

I don't see anything positive in this hire. I will be happy if he demonstrates otherwise.

[OgtheDim]

How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that?...

I put no stock in Armas' NYRB days indicating a preference or specialization - RB are a VERY top down organization & there has been no indication Curtis or Manning want to emulate what RB does across all its teams. Lets see what he says.

[Ultra & Proud]

Nobody coming into MLS level should have to work on their positioning and tackling to play a particular role. It's too late for that unless he's a prodigy athlete, and he clearly isn't.

Bradley is positionally good, in midfield. When dropped into the center of defense, he was sketchy. If you get dropped in a position you don't play, you won't be perfectly positioned. As for the tackling, a CB shouldn't attempt the type of tackling a DM can get away with as guys will drop like they've been shot. Takes time to change this behaviour.


A lack of youth moving up doesn't mean necessarily that someone is holding them back. It can also mean whoever is developing them isn't doing a very good job. Given that more Sigma youth are making it into the league fulltime than TFC academy youth, there's probably something to the notion that the problem is at an earlier level than the first team.

This is true but the Waking the Red article pointed to Vanney and Curtis having a difference of opinion on Vanney not using young players Ali signed. I am not an Ali fan at all but if it's one thing he was known for, it was developing and using homegrowns and young players. On the other hand you could see Vanney was the exact opposite as he ground our completely gassed vets into the dirt down the stretch.

[jloome]

On the other hand you could see Vanney was the exact opposite as he ground our completely gassed vets into the dirt down the stretch.

Well... that and being on the road all year, with an injured DP striker.

I mean, the guy took us to three finals and won one. I really don't think his handling of our roster deserves a whole lot of stick.

Also, he isn't the one who was signing them; he can't play them in his team if they aren't good enough, right? He obviously was able to manage a winning roster, and chose not to use them. There was no political gain in doing so, no personal stake. It was an assessment of ability.

[MightyDM]

It's what he ran in their academy & first team and he did inherit it but there's no history of him ever doing anything else so that's all we have to base him on. In that regard at least we know he can implement that. No clue if he could do anything more forward thinking.

Thanks. Very helpful.

[Ultra & Proud]

Thanks. Very helpful.
Can only judge on what's been seen. We could roll through a dozen pages pages of conjecture on what he could possibly do but at least we know he can do one thing sort of successfully. Other than that, nobody here knows anything so might as well lock the thread until match #1 starts.

[MikeForbes]

What formation did Armas typically deploy with NYRB?

[Richard]

I miss Tim Liewicki. Harry Potter too.

[jloome]

What formation did Armas typically deploy with NYRB?

4-2-3-1

They play a high-press, quick recovery system like RB Salzburg.

The idea is to use speed to keep the ball in the offensive end as much as possible, then swarm coverage of the ball quickly when its lost to try and force quick turnovers.

It's most effective against teams like us, who build from the back. It doesn't really fit our current roster.

[Ultra & Proud]

It doesn't really fit our current roster.

That's for sure and I hope he doesn't try to make the current roster play that press and I also hope Curtis & Manning don't force Armas to play Vanney's system either. I don't think either will work out.

[Luanda]

Disappointed, underwhelmed & nervous about the future direction.

[OgtheDim]

Leach makes a good point

https://twitter.com/MLeach680News/status/1349481421006659584

[MightyDM]

Another thought

This is now Bill Manning's team fully. Curtis is his VP/GM & Armas is his coach. Both will have a LOT of loyalty to Manning because both were on the scrap heap.

yes.. For bad, but hopefully for good. At least they will both be motivated.

[MightyDM]

This hire is totally on Manning and Curtis so i intend to chill for 6 months and see what direction they intend to go.
If after this time TFC are in the lower reaches of the Eastern Conference then it will be time to go after management.
Just idol speculation will Bradley Delgado pick a name be in LA this season after the events of the past 2 months .
Out with the old in with the (Manning,Curtis,Armas)prodigy’s.
Thankfully we will not be in the stadium for 6 months.

They might well lose Marky. He is the most valuable asset on the club in many ways

[MightyDM]

While I agree we're not where we need to be to be contending the league annually, we were three points ahead in the Supporters Shield race with three games left... With the entire season played on the road.

We should be winning from day one. This should not become a losing team. That's not a high standard to demand given our roster.


Thats where I am at. I wish him well, and I very much look forward to the development of Ralph Priso - but we don't have a front office that gives confidence they can find or recruit a Seba, and I expect MLSE has told them not to go that direction anyway. My prediction is that we will loose a couple of key players and bring in a striker/winger with experience and pace. I am rooting for Jozy to arrive fit and enthusiastic, but if not he will be gone. Ali's comments the other day implied this.

[Smokecell]

This is a perfect meat shield appointment for Manning. If things don’t work out he gets to fire Ali and Armas.

[Kamp Berg]

Leach makes a good point

https://twitter.com/MLeach680News/status/1349481421006659584

I really can’t stand the hyperbole from Curtis. What does he mean that there has never been a moment like this in sports before? Just say you are excited, if you are excited, it’s just so corporate sounding that it makes me distrust everything he says.

[James17930]

I really can’t stand the hyperbole from Curtis. What does he mean that there has never been a moment like this in sports before? Just say you are excited, if you are excited, it’s just so corporate sounding that it makes me distrust everything he says.

He means the pandemic.

[ag futbol]

This is a perfect meat shield appointment for Manning. If things don’t work out he gets to fire Ali and Armas.
I’d argue the biggest mistake we made was not giving Bez Manning’s job.

[Kamp Berg]

He means the pandemic.

If that’s the case, he’s wrong there too, there were organized sports in 1918. Either way, I find his communication style does not help his image.

[Ultra & Proud]

I am no fan of this hire but I will withhold judgement. I started and kept the sack Vanney thread going for 18 months only to be proven wrong big time so I will give Armas a solid half season before I start the sack Armas thread.

[MightyDM]

I am no fan of this hire but I will withhold judgement. I started and kept the sack Vanney thread going for 18 months only to be proven wrong big time so I will give Armas a solid half season before I start the sack Armas thread.


hahahahaha. Generous! The season might even be started by then.

Obviously we know nothing. He does have an excellent playing pedigree and the American players are likely to respect him. tough to come into a situation like this - Vanney has it much easier coming into a team on a downturn - but if can get Jozy going it will hide a multitude of sins.

[Kamp Berg]

https://twitter.com/tsnsoccer/status/1349414678976483333?s=21

Kinda sounds like KJ is greasing the excuse machine for the FO already 😂

[Kamp Berg]

https://twitter.com/tsnsoccer/status/1349476552321466371?s=21

Interview with Jesse Marsch about Armas.

[Ultra & Proud]

https://twitter.com/tsnsoccer/status/1349476552321466371?s=21

Interview with Jesse Marsch about Armas.
Interesting things were that the rumor of TFC contacting Marsch were true (but about Armas) and that Armas will want to play RB aggressive press football. Also interesting that he singled out Jozy as one that will have difficulty with that.

[OgtheDim]

Two other bits of interest from the KJ discussions

a) They interviewed Vincenzo Montello
b) small throw away line about Altidore "if he stays here" then moved onto other things - not going to put too much into that but fairly certain that means there have been feelers if nothing else


**********

One thing that has been discussed is the team needs to play quicker & Armas might do that. I'm not sold on Curtis getting the players to do that.

[Stress]

Manning, Ali, and Armas are all chrome domes. Coincidence?

Seriously, it’s underwhelming but i can’t blame them. The way this season is trending, what well respected name would sign on to this? Might as well stick to a known entity who has something to prove and won’t break the bank. Was the length of the contract mentioned?

[Oldtimer]

So, how long until #armasout trends? 10 games? Five games? Three games?

[gracos]

So, how long until #armasout trends? 10 games? Five games? Three games?

So let me gather some information we decide garbage from other clubs is a better way, what happened to Tim Leiweke, Tim Bezbatchenko, and Greg Vanney, to deciding to replace our spots with people who have been fired for not performing their goals adequately, its going to be another 10 yrs before we get our next playoffs, and at this rate might as well go back to the Mo Johnston way, because their is no pride in the signings but rather be buddy buddy or be content with picking up scraps, I wasnt happy with the rushed signing of Ali Curtis and certainly not content for rushing to sign a NYRB reject in Armas

[Ultra & Proud]

One thing that has been discussed is the team needs to play quicker & Armas might do that. I'm not sold on Curtis getting the players to do that.

My worry is that they just load the team with guys like Schaff, Gallardo, Mullins, etc. The young guys who can and will do the dirty hard press work no questions asked.

[ag futbol]

https://twitter.com/tsnsoccer/status/1349476552321466371?s=21

Interview with Jesse Marsch about Armas.
Aka why my former assistant (friend?) is great.

Back scratching, this is.

[Bushmancan]

So, how long until #armasout trends? 10 games? Five games? Three games?

I actually think Armas will not be the issue ... I think he is more than competent. Everything now lies on Ali, if he reinforces the team we will do well.

It he doesn’t, it will be #aliout trending.

[Kamp Berg]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1349529163913330688?s=21

Bradley interview about Armas

[DavemTFC]

I don't know why virtually everyone is assuming we're going to press now considering his legacy in NY is moving away from the press the team was specifically built for

I don't really have anything else to add. I hope this works out but I'll be surprised if he lasts a year

[DavemTFC]

Vanney was very gracious about the fact that Seba and Jozy blew him off a lot.
Wait when/where did he say this? Not surprised, I just haven't heard about it said explicitly before

[portu]

Wait when/where did he say this? Not surprised, I just haven't heard about it said explicitly before
It’s never been said but they definitely got the star treatment. Seba throwing a bitch fit when being subbed with 2 goals and Jozy getting carded for ridiculous reasons (like talking shit to the ref while on the bench) are examples that come to mind. Can’t imagine any other players getting away with those things or having the balls to do them in the first place.

[Mark TFC]

So Manning and Curtis are so flooded with calls about the management position that they have to take their phones off the hook... and they hire Ali’s NYRB buddy. Not surprising, Ali.

I will say I feel pretty underwhelmed at the announcement, especially given all the hype (I should’ve expected the “Ali-hype”), but I’m not here to crap on the guy; we have to support our coach until he gives us reason to believe otherwise. That being said, how do all the people calling for “Vanney out” feel now? Not too good for the most part, I bet.

[Ultra & Proud]

Wait when/where did he say this? Not surprised, I just haven't heard about it said explicitly before

Jozy got permission to train at home during the pandemic break last year and came to camp completely out of shape (like usual). Anyone else would have been shamed and reprimanded. Jozy's laziness was brushed under the rug.

[ensco]

The official team review video of the 2016 season made a big joke of the fact that Jozy and Seba together both ignored Vanney's explicit instructions and ran their own corner set piece on the goal right before halftime against Montreal in the ECF second leg. There was a podcast about it afterwards (don’t remember who) where one of the reporters said it was an open secret that those two disregarded most of that kind of instruction. It was all “of course they do, they are Seba and Jozy” but I remember thinking, that is only charming if you win, that could be trouble someday.. like I said, this is a tribute to Vanney that it didn’t become trouble. Mostly.

It was also common knowledge that Seba trained entirely according to his own regimen (and of course had his own trainer, who became Jozy's trainer, who was canned when Seba left, which led to a Jozy dustup)...Piatti and Pozo running their own PK stunt last year is another example.

These types of players that come from big success elsewhere, they are really not going to listen to a Greg Vanney or a Chris Armas. Making sure that you deliver effective management to the rest, and that the insubordination doesn’t infect others, is a tough challenge. I think Armas had trouble with this with Kaku, hope he learned something from that.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I’d argue the biggest mistake we made was not giving Bez Manning’s job.

You have an extremely strong point of view here!

[Areathrasher]

Did all the trouble with Kaku start over NYRB turning down a big $$$ offer from America for him or was there something else? I can't remember.

[Mikmacdo]

I don't know why virtually everyone is assuming we're going to press now considering his legacy in NY is moving away from the press the team was specifically built for

I don't really have anything else to add. I hope this works out but I'll be surprised if he lasts a year

Jesse Marsch said in the interview that's the red bull way.

[OgtheDim]

Jesse Marsch said in the interview that's the red bull way.

Guy wants the Leipzig job after Salzberg - he's a company man right now through & through.

[Ultra & Proud]

Guy wants the Leipzig job after Salzberg - he's a company man right now through & through.
But in his little interview he seemed as if he has been in contact with Armas and he said directly he would run an aggressive press. Maybe he is wrong but this more to go on that guessing based on what he messed around with in year 2 at NYRB.

[Mike_S]

4-2-3-1

They play a high-press, quick recovery system like RB Salzburg.

The idea is to use speed to keep the ball in the offensive end as much as possible, then swarm coverage of the ball quickly when its lost to try and force quick turnovers.

It's most effective against teams like us, who build from the back. It doesn't really fit our current roster.

This is why I am fearing the possibility of a difficult transition year in 2021.

[OgtheDim]

A modified press, which is what we did against some teams last year, sure -that was Armas MO near the end of his NYRB tenure.

A gung ho go for it all press is a waste of Pozuelo.

[jabbronies]

A modified press, which is what we did against some teams last year, sure -that was Armas MO near the end of his NYRB tenure.

A gung ho go for it all press is a waste of Pozuelo.

Ya we don't press like the red bulls. They go balls out, like they're on cocaine.

Our press is more methodical.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ya we don't press like the red bulls. They go balls out, like they're on cocaine.

Our press is more methodical.
Jozy doesn't work in even the most methodical press. If TFC Armas is anything like RB Armas then there's really no place for Jozy. Akinola would be far better as the 1 up top than Loafy.

[DavemTFC]

One of the first things Marsch said in that interview was "I don't think anyone believes in Chris more than I do" I'm not putting much stock in what he says especially since it goes against how Armas' NY actually played


The official team review video of the 2016 season made a big joke of the fact that Jozy and Seba together both ignored Vanney's explicit instructions and ran their own corner set piece on the goal right before halftime against Montreal in the ECF second leg. There was a podcast about it afterwards (don’t remember who) where one of the reporters said it was an open secret that those two disregarded most of that kind of instruction. It was all “of course they do, they are Seba and Jozy” but I remember thinking, that is only charming if you win, that could be trouble someday.. like I said, this is a tribute to Vanney that it didn’t become trouble. Mostly.

It was also common knowledge that Seba trained entirely according to his own regimen (and of course had his own trainer, who became Jozy's trainer, who was canned when Seba left, which led to a Jozy dustup)...Piatti and Pozo running their own PK stunt last year is another example.

These types of players that come from big success elsewhere, they are really not going to listen to a Greg Vanney or a Chris Armas. Making sure that you deliver effective management to the rest, and that the insubordination doesn’t infect others, is a tough challenge. I think Armas had trouble with this with Kaku, hope he learned something from that.
Fair, I just interpreted your previous post as Vanney may have referenced this himself

[jabbronies]

Jozy doesn't work in even the most methodical press. If TFC Armas is anything like RB Armas then there's really no place for Jozy. Akinola would be far better as the 1 up top than Loafy.


ya I mean...IMO - Jozy was kind of an anchor on our ship last couple of seasons. If he doesn't change his play, I can see him being used less often - even when healthy.

That will be the storyline for the year. Jozy vs Armas.

All My own Opinions BTW

[Mikmacdo]

ya I mean...IMO - Jozy was kind of an anchor on our ship last couple of seasons. If he doesn't change his play, I can see him being used less often - even when healthy.

That will be the storyline for the year. Jozy vs Armas.

All My own Opinions BTW

Hopefully Jozy is gone regardless of the style of play. He's a huge waste of money.

[Canary10]

Jozy doesn't work in even the most methodical press. If TFC Armas is anything like RB Armas then there's really no place for Jozy. Akinola would be far better as the 1 up top than Loafy.

I agree with your point, I don't think Jozy is suited to a press. But can we not use insults like "Loafy." He's a TFC legend, we can criticize without being insulting.

[ensco]

I hate the way Jozy is treated around here. People calling him names are ingrates.

He was overpaid last year but who cares. He's legend. Good for him. Richie was seriously underpaid, where's the reaction to that? In any case, stop acting like it's your money.

We used the DP slot on Jozy and that made sense to most people when we did it. What choice did we have? What evidence do you really have that the team is willing or able to spend 6M a year on someone else when he is gone? You know that slot will be used next on someone a lot cheaper.

[portu]

I hate the way Jozy is treated around here. People calling him names are ingrates.

He was overpaid last year but who cares. He's legend. Good for him. Richie was seriously underpaid, where's the reaction to that? In any case, stop acting like it's your money.

We used the DP slot on Jozy and that made sense to most people when we did it. What choice did we have? What evidence do you really have that the team is willing or able to spend 6M a year on someone else when he is gone? You know that slot will be used next on someone a lot cheaper.
This last bit here is my biggest takeaway from the Armas process. Management is more trying to be economical than playing it safe by not sacking old guard (Vanney, Bradley, Jozy) when it may be advantageous to transition away. This club is heading into an era of NYCFC after their names left imo.

When you consider that Jozy was never going to be replaced with another big money striker it makes a shit ton of sense that we kept him.

[Kamp Berg]

Rollins article about Armas hire:

One of the best new stats in sports is Value Over Replacement Player, or VORP as it is commonly called.

VORP is great because it allows you to put a value on the overall contribution of a player. Looking at multiple aspects of their game. It also allows you to compare players of different eras, as it standardizes individual statistics from year to year.

[moderator edit:] full article here: https://24thminute.substack.com/

[MightyDM]

Jozy doesn't work in even the most methodical press. If TFC Armas is anything like RB Armas then there's really no place for Jozy. Akinola would be far better as the 1 up top than Loafy.

This is a bit unfair to Jozy. He played in the wide midfield after tactical adjustments during a couple of games last season and actually worked quite hard. Huffing and puffing, but worked (and did not complain)

[MightyDM]

I hate the way Jozy is treated around here. People calling him names are ingrates.

He was overpaid last year but who cares. He's legend. Good for him. Richie was seriously underpaid, where's the reaction to that? In any case, stop acting like it's your money.

We used the DP slot on Jozy and that made sense to most people when we did it. What choice did we have? What evidence do you really have that the team is willing or able to spend 6M a year on someone else when he is gone? You know that slot will be used next on someone a lot cheaper.

Jozy may well surprise people this year. And I am with Ensco. Legend.

[MightyDM]

Rollins article about Armas hire:



Actually a good and interesting article.

[Smokecell]

I hate the way Jozy is treated around here. People calling him names are ingrates.

He was overpaid last year but who cares. He's legend. Good for him. Richie was seriously underpaid, where's the reaction to that? In any case, stop acting like it's your money.

We used the DP slot on Jozy and that made sense to most people when we did it. What choice did we have? What evidence do you really have that the team is willing or able to spend 6M a year on someone else when he is gone? You know that slot will be used next on someone a lot cheaper.

This is brilliant and should be stickied to the top of every thread on this forum.

[OgtheDim]

This is a bit unfair to Jozy. He played in the wide midfield after tactical adjustments during a couple of games last season and actually worked quite hard. Huffing and puffing, but worked (and did not complain)


This - specifically the NYRB game.

My issue with Jozy is I don't think he can play as a lone striker and Poz can't be that striker and that means a 4-3-1-2 but Bradley can't be the DM anymore and then where do you put Osorio?

All needs a rethink and "pressing" isn't necessarily the right answer.

[MikeForbes]

Jozy can both be a legend (which he is) and not fit what the team needs anymore.

[MightyDM]

Jozy can both be a legend (which he is) and not fit what the team needs anymore.

Fair enough. But that's rather different than the trashing he is taking from some on here.

I like what Smokecell said.

[bought with blo]

Actually a good and interesting article.
Seriously though why is the whole article posted here. Give them link or tell people to subscribe to read.
It's bloody free.
At least let the guy get a few more subscribers. We have so few content creators doing good work about TFC. This is disrespectful.

[bought with blo]

This - specifically the NYRB game.

My issue with Jozy is I don't think he can play as a lone striker and Poz can't be that striker and that means a 4-3-1-2 but Bradley can't be the DM anymore and then where do you put Osorio?

All needs a rethink and "pressing" isn't necessarily the right answer.

I think Bradley drops down the pecking order. He is clearly losing, more than a step now. He was just bad in the playoffs, and at the end of the season.
This needs to become Oso and Delgado as the base of the midfield. The kids need to be pushing Bradley for that rotation spit in midfield.

[ag futbol]

This is a bit unfair to Jozy. He played in the wide midfield after tactical adjustments during a couple of games last season and actually worked quite hard. Huffing and puffing, but worked (and did not complain)
But at that point he was already chronically under performing. Huffing and puffing was the price of not walking the proverbial plank.

Honestly given his body type and such, I’m not expecting him to be that sort of player. Few guys can carry that much bulk and race around the field for 90 minutes. We just need him to score.

On the other side, I think any strategy we implement should at least be partially reflective of our roster and / or exiting training methods. Just not sure Altidore has any major part in that. Directionally, he’s leaving and will play a smaller part in our setup. Whether it’s this year, next year, or at the end of his contract in 2.

[ag futbol]

I think Bradley drops down the pecking order. He is clearly losing, more than a step now. He was just bad in the playoffs, and at the end of the season.
This needs to become Oso and Delgado as the base of the midfield. The kids need to be pushing Bradley for that rotation spit in midfield.
I’m less concerned about his pace and more concerned about his tendency to sit just off the backline and act as a single pivot.

Other teams just shut us down immediately when he’s doing that. He needs to be able to adjust his positioning and allow the other central mid to drop deep as well. You’d have to believe he’s capable. But I also haven’t seen a lot of examples of this yet.

[Kamp Berg]

Seriously though why is the whole article posted here. Give them link or tell people to subscribe to read.
It's bloody free.
At least let the guy get a few more subscribers. We have so few content creators doing good work about TFC. This is disrespectful.

If people like the article, they can subscribe like I did. Trying to be helpful, but I guess I should expect vitriol by some members of this board no matter what. Feel good about yourself?

[MikeForbes]

There will be a presser today concerning the hire at 1pm ET.

[Redpunkfiddle]

Rollins article about Armas hire:



If you want to refer to any media, linking to the source and not copy paste gives the authors credit for reading their content

https://24thminute.substack.com/

[Kamp Berg]

If you want to refer to any media, linking to the source and not copy paste gives the authors credit for reading their content

https://24thminute.substack.com/

It’s a free email, there’s no credit to receive. I always link articles or tweets.

[ag futbol]

On SoccerToday we reported that TFC had gone after Patrick Vieira hard. The club has denied that they offered him a contract, but we were told that they were being cute with that. He wasn’t officially offered a deal, but he was told what the deal would be so he could consider it. Ultimately, he decided to stay in Europe and look for another job there.

Surprise, surprise.

And once again the local press proves its lack of foresight (if true). I tend to believe it.

[Kamp Berg]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1349779888484601862?s=21

New coach presser

I can’t watch Ali talk anymore, can someone please summarize? 😂

[Ultra & Proud]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1349779888484601862?s=21

New coach presser

I can’t watch Ali talk anymore, can someone please summarize? 

I got bored within a couple of minutes of watching these three. With the set up like this, with no questions from KJ or someone, it's all just drivel. Nothing to see here.

[Kamp Berg]

Comment from Rollins:

https://twitter.com/24thminute/status/1349783732832632834?s=21

So maybe a press is coming?

[Bushmancan]

I hate the way Jozy is treated around here. People calling him names are ingrates.

He was overpaid last year but who cares. He's legend. Good for him. Richie was seriously underpaid, where's the reaction to that?.


As Auzzy would say....this, exactly this!

[OgtheDim]

Just seeing the reporter tweets & ...yup....the press is coming.

Which means team turnover

Which means 2021 is a lost season. :(

[Kamp Berg]

Just seeing the reporter tweets & ...yup....the press is coming.

Which means team turnover

Which means 2021 is a lost season. :(

So Curtis’ idea of an ‘off-season to remember’ is a needless overhaul reminiscent of an unstable team no one wants to remember? Sounds like a nightmare come true.

[Initial B]

Any time a new coach comes into a team, they deserve to be given 3 transfer periods before being judged on their body of work with a club. That said, I foresee a lot of upheaval in 2021. Toronto will probably still be a playoff team, but an early round exit at best with the current lineup trying to implement a press. Expect snafus and the occasional hilarious error. I'll just try to enjoy the ride this year. However, if June 2022 comes around and the team is mired in mediocrity, then at that point the brain trust needs to be investigated.

[Ultra & Proud]

So now when Bradley retires after next season does he now become the automatic assistant to Armas since this was his preferred choice to be coach?

[Oldtimer]

If people like the article, they can subscribe like I did. Trying to be helpful, but I guess I should expect vitriol by some members of this board no matter what. Feel good about yourself?

Thanks for sharing, but this board does not allow posting of complete articles, we respect copyright and try to support the writers. You can summarize a key point and point others where they can subscribe too. That way you can be most helpful to both the writer and to the board members.

[Kamp Berg]

Thanks for sharing, but this board does not allow posting of complete articles, we respect copyright and try to support the writers. You can summarize a key point and point others where they can subscribe too. That way you can be most helpful to both the writer and to the board members.

Thank you for the clarification, I did not know that. I would have responded differently if I did.

[Areathrasher]

Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)

But i was wrong in thinking that Manning wouldn't let it be just someone from Ali's network.


Hold on there chief....from Davidson's article tonight...


Back in the early '90s, Armas played for Puerto Rico alongside current Toronto president Bill Manning. Both men spent time in the USL with Armas at the Long Island Rough Riders and Manning — who went on to become the Rough Riders GM prior to working in MLS — at the New York Fever.

[Kamp Berg]

KJ and Armas:

https://www.tsn.ca/video/armas-grateful-for-tfc-coaching-job-motivated-to-repay-organization-for-opportunity~2119245

Unfortunately a little short on any real info.

[ensco]

Hold on there chief....from Davidson's article tonight...

hahaha thank you. So there you go!

I took a bunch of stick for that view.

[MightyDM]

Seriously though why is the whole article posted here. Give them link or tell people to subscribe to read.
It's bloody free.
At least let the guy get a few more subscribers. We have so few content creators doing good work about TFC. This is disrespectful.

OK. i subscribed.

[NK Toronto]

I just finished watching the Armas press conference on YouTube. There were 257 views and 8 comments posted. So for those of you wondering why the club is not pursuing a big name coach or DP you now have your answer.

[NK Toronto]

Manning, Ali, and Armas are all chrome domes. Coincidence?


It was a requirement for the role. Apparently TFC offered the job to Zidane but he wasn't interested. I also heard that Marouane Fellaini, Kyle Beckerman and Carlos Valderrama all called Manning to express an interest but none of them got an interview.

[Kamp Berg]

I just finished watching the Armas press conference on YouTube. There were 257 views and 8 comments posted. So for those of you wondering why the club is not pursuing a big name coach or DP you now have your answer.

Chicken or the egg?

[DavemTFC]

So Armas, who made a team built for the press not press as much is expected to make a team not built for the press press more. Fantastic.

[sn0re]

I just realized that we now have a bald trio of Manning, Ali and now Armas

[Blindside16]

Any time a new coach comes into a team, they deserve to be given 3 transfer periods before being judged on their body of work with a club. That said, I foresee a lot of upheaval in 2021. Toronto will probably still be a playoff team, but an early round exit at best with the current lineup trying to implement a press. Expect snafus and the occasional hilarious error. I'll just try to enjoy the ride this year. However, if June 2022 comes around and the team is mired in mediocrity, then at that point the brain trust needs to be investigated.

I would be willing to extend it to 4 even given the fact that unless a miracle happens the odds of TFC being allowed to play at BMO this season a slim to none. It will be at least the mid to late summer before the government will even consider giving the ok. Which in turn mean that they will be playing out of Hartford again. I can see that being a hard sell especially for a DP, having to say goodbye to your family for weeks at a time.

On the plus side it will mean we get to hear more Brass Bonanza

[dutch]

Hes been made assistant coach in 2019 for the men's team under herdman after previously coaching our u20 squad

[dutch]

Has Caldwell ever coached a pro men's team?

Hes Canada nation team assistant coach since 2019, selected by headman after coaching our u20 national team

[OgtheDim]

So Armas, who made a team built for the press not press as much is expected to make a team not built for the press press more. Fantastic.

Well put

[ag futbol]

I just finished watching the Armas press conference on YouTube. There were 257 views and 8 comments posted. So for those of you wondering why the club is not pursuing a big name coach or DP you now have your answer.
This is the wrong way of thinking about it. The bigger name (maybe not coach but DP) widens the interest in the club exponentially. This, in contrast, as unenthusiastic a hire as they come and Armas might be a good coach (or not) but I give his public speaking a 2/10. You can’t headline sports centre with a rambling, shifty-eyed dude who nobody has heard of. Even in this depressed environment, that clip is probably going into the last 5 minutes of taping.

This team doesn’t have much of a history to fall back on, it needs big, attention-grabbing moments to keep market interest. You have a large audience in GTA and beyond that likes soccer. You just have to sell them on the credibility of your product. You could probably trace a decent chunk of interest we have today back to Defoe, Giovonco, and all the hype created by the last management team.

Just to come full circle on this, I am concerned regardless of what Manning and Curtis can accomplish on the field, off of it they are hopeless when it comes to marketing. I feel like we could have a good team and public interest would still drop off because they just don’t get it.

And hilariously, when people reference whether they are up for the challenge of managing here, we get talk of “oh, Ali managed in New York” (cause what’s Toronto if you can handle that? Right??). Except New York was actually New Jersey and that team struggles to be relevant. It’s like me saying I’m a big-time chef in Manhattan and when in reality I run a hotdog cart on the corner of Times Square.

[Bushmancan]

And hilariously, when people reference whether they are up for the challenge of managing here, we get talk of “oh, Ali managed in New York” (cause what’s Toronto if you can handle that? Right??). Except New York was actually New Jersey and that team struggles to be relevant. It’s like me saying I’m a big-time chef in Manhattan and when in reality I run a hotdog cart on the corner of Times Square.

So true, I am now going to say something that will piss some people on this board off. Vanney was an excellent communicator, and you need that in a coach. But I remember looking back at 2017 Payroll, Lieweike & MLSE spent money to win. Vanney won one time.... was he a tactical genius. I would say that is suspect.

I think our lot is going to be determined more by what is the budget moving forward and who is running the football operations and Bez over Ali every day of the week.

Armas vs Vanney (meh), I still think the best thing would be to see MB grow into that role.




Toronto FC
LA Galaxy
New York City FC
Chicago Fire
Los Angeles FC
Portland Timbers
Montreal Impact
Seattle Sounders FC
Atlanta United
Colorado Rapids
FC Dallas
Sporting Kansas City
Real Salt Lake
Orlando City SC
Philadelphia Union


2016
21.8
18.11
21.13
5.6
-
6.83
6.74
10.73
-
8.49
4.32
6.75
5.96
11.55
5.67


2017
22.55
14.57
18.11
13.09
-
11.37
6.32
11.82
-
8.26
7.35
6.3
8.58
14.58
7.18


2018
26.17
17.5
14.15
13.8
13.43
12.52
11.89
11.38
11.31
11
9.33
9.18
8.98
8.98
8.92


2019
24.27
19.64
10.41
17.11
13.77
12.55
13.15
13.68
12.96
8.6
8.81
12.07
11.12
12.57
9.85



I honestly don't know what is going to happen and Armas could flop, but if MLSE keep spending not worried. If the tap shuts off, then we need real football people in the room.

[MightyDM]

So Armas, who made a team built for the press not press as much is expected to make a team not built for the press press more. Fantastic.


hahahaha. Nicely played.

[OgtheDim]

This is the wrong way of thinking about it. The bigger name (maybe not coach but DP) widens the interest in the club exponentially. This, in contrast, as unenthusiastic a hire as they come and Armas might be a good coach (or not) but I give his public speaking a 2/10. You can’t headline sports centre with a rambling, shifty-eyed dude who nobody has heard of. Even in this depressed environment, that clip is probably going into the last 5 minutes of taping.

..

The interview with KJ was a reminder of how good Vanney actually is at this stuff.

The team, & TSN, are carrying a LOT of water for this guy to show he's worth it - he might be good but everything I'm seeing tells me he is mercurial, and in the midst of covid, I'm not sure that works.

[Kamp Berg]

The recent Davidson article said that Armas was only hired as the coach and not the technical director as well, like Vanney was. Manning has also been quoted as saying that Curtis is solely responsible for player acquisitions now. Of course collaboration will happen, but all players will now be the sole discretion of a man who after a very short playing career worked as a banker before returning to MLS as the technical director for NYRB. Doesn’t mean he can’t do the job but I found his background surprising for the amount of trust and power he’s been given. This is without a doubt all on Curtis now.

[jabbronies]

The recent Davidson article said that Armas was only hired as the coach and not the technical director as well, like Vanney was. Manning has also been quoted as saying that Curtis is solely responsible for player acquisitions now. Of course collaboration will happen, but all players will now be the sole discretion of a man who after a very short playing career worked as a banker before returning to MLS as the technical director for NYRB. Doesn’t mean he can’t do the job but I found his background surprising for the amount of trust and power he’s been given. This is without a doubt all on Curtis now.


Tim Bez didn't play at the level that Curtis did, went to law school afterward his playing career ended, then returned to MLS as a Player relations and contract specialist (Pretty much the same position Ali Curtis started off with) and I mean Bez did alright.

[Oldtimer]

So true, I am now going to say something that will piss some people on this board off. Vanney was an excellent communicator, and you need that in a coach. But I remember looking back at 2017 Payroll, Lieweike & MLSE spent money to win. Vanney won one time.... was he a tactical genius. I would say that is suspect.


We'll get a clearer idea when we see how he does with LAG, a team with ambitions, but not as high a spender as TFC. I think he'll likely do quite well. Genius? :lol: That's reserved for people like Pep, I wouldn't even put Zidane in that category.

[noxx98]

Lots of top executives in other sports played a minimal amount at a high level in their sport. At other Toronto teams, Brendan Shannahan is the only to have played at the top league in their sport. Ross Atkins played 5 minor league seasons. Soccer is probably the exception in relying on former players for top roles compared to other sports.

[NK Toronto]

This is the wrong way of thinking about it. The bigger name (maybe not coach but DP) widens the interest in the club exponentially. This, in contrast, as unenthusiastic a hire as they come and Armas might be a good coach (or not) but I give his public speaking a 2/10. You can’t headline sports centre with a rambling, shifty-eyed dude who nobody has heard of. Even in this depressed environment, that clip is probably going into the last 5 minutes of taping.

This team doesn’t have much of a history to fall back on, it needs big, attention-grabbing moments to keep market interest. You have a large audience in GTA and beyond that likes soccer. You just have to sell them on the credibility of your product. You could probably trace a decent chunk of interest we have today back to Defoe, Giovonco, and all the hype created by the last management team.

Just to come full circle on this, I am concerned regardless of what Manning and Curtis can accomplish on the field, off of it they are hopeless when it comes to marketing. I feel like we could have a good team and public interest would still drop off because they just don’t get it.

And hilariously, when people reference whether they are up for the challenge of managing here, we get talk of “oh, Ali managed in New York” (cause what’s Toronto if you can handle that? Right??). Except New York was actually New Jersey and that team struggles to be relevant. It’s like me saying I’m a big-time chef in Manhattan and when in reality I run a hotdog cart on the corner of Times Square.

Was that you? I think I bought one of your hot dogs back in 2018.

I maintain that Toronto is a lousy sports town that consistently supports only one team, the Leafs. As for the others, interest fluctuates up and down depending on whether they are perceived as being trendy at the moment. The Raps are the "in" team at the moment but that will fade if they have a losing record. As for TFC, they need a Seba type player to expand interest. However that only lasts for a short period of time while the player is here. It seems that Seba's tenure did not expand the overall fan base, which regrettably remains small.

[Kamp Berg]

Tim Bez didn't play at the level that Curtis did, went to law school afterward his playing career ended, then returned to MLS as a Player relations and contract specialist (Pretty much the same position Ali Curtis started off with) and I mean Bez did alright.

That is true but I would still argue that Bez has had a much more notable career during his time at MLS HQ and afterwards. In fact they left their HQ jobs only a year apart and Bez has had a lot more success since then, especially considering player acquisitions.

[jabbronies]

That is true but I would still argue that Bez has had a much more notable career during his time at MLS HQ and afterwards. In fact they left their HQ jobs only a year apart and Bez has had a lot more success since then, especially considering player acquisitions.


Let's be real here though - TFC ambition was a lot higher than NYRB. Our luck in landing Seba and Jozy could not have been replicated at NYRB. I think Curtis did ok considering what he had

Question - When TFC made the run to the CCL finals - was Ali in charge of RB at the time? Because they were in the other Semi-finals weren't they?

[Kamp Berg]

Let's be real here though - TFC ambition was a lot higher than NYRB. Our luck in landing Seba and Jozy could not have been replicated at NYRB. I think Curtis did ok considering what he had

Question - When TFC made the run to the CCL finals - was Ali in charge of RB at the time? Because they were in the other Semi-finals weren't they?

You’re right, he did okay with what he had. But can you honestly say you’ve seen anything from him that in stills confidence that he can be successful running a big club?

[reggie]

Kristian Dyer
@KristianRDyer
· 34m
Per multiple sources, hearing that Jason Bent will join Greg Vanney on his staff with the #LAGalaxy.

the funny part is that a new york writer has the story of a canadian leaving tfc to join vanney in LA

[ag futbol]

Was that you? I think I bought one of your hot dogs back in 2018.

I maintain that Toronto is a lousy sports town that consistently supports only one team, the Leafs. As for the others, interest fluctuates up and down depending on whether they are perceived as being trendy at the moment. The Raps are the "in" team at the moment but that will fade if they have a losing record. As for TFC, they need a Seba type player to expand interest. However that only lasts for a short period of time while the player is here. It seems that Seba's tenure did not expand the overall fan base, which regrettably remains small.
That was me, serving hot dogs in my spider man costume (why settle for one side hustle?)

I agree, it’s a leafs town and everyone plays second fiddle. But let’s remember the Leafs got there through history and everyone else has to build it. There is a future I this town for basketball and soccer. Honestly, if not for that terrible strike, baseball would be in a different place today too.

Creating those moments people remember will grow the fan base and keep people coming back. Sure, it’s not the same as time passes. TFC interest today is not the same as it was with Giovonco in his prime but I’d argue it’s also greater than it was pre Giovonco. The size of BMO has thrown off our compass a bit but let’s remember we went from a sometimes full house 18k seater to a now sometimes capacity 30,000 seater.

Stay the right course and things will improve. But we will get there faster and go further if the team tries to inspire rather than simply quietly achieve. This is entertainment as much as it is sport, after all.

[MightyDM]

That was me, serving hot dogs in my spider man costume (why settle for one side hustle?)

I agree, it’s a leafs town and everyone plays second fiddle. But let’s remember the Leafs got there through history and everyone else has to build it. There is a future I this town for basketball and soccer. Honestly, if not for that terrible strike, baseball would be in a different place today too.

Creating those moments people remember will grow the fan base and keep people coming back. Sure, it’s not the same as time passes. TFC interest today is not the same as it was with Giovonco in his prime but I’d argue it’s also greater than it was pre Giovonco. The size of BMO has thrown off our compass a bit but let’s remember we went from a sometimes full house 18k seater to a now sometimes capacity 30,000 seater.

Stay the right course and things will improve. But we will get there faster and go further if the team tries to inspire rather than simply quietly achieve. This is entertainment as much as it is sport, after all.

The Belgians bought the jays and stopped spending money. Nothing to do with the strike whatsoever.

And we were always sold out. Always. until 2012 which was soul destroying.

Otherwise, you are not wrong.

[barticusz]

I listened to Armas' interview on ExtraTime Radio (MLS) and I came away with a couple of thoughts.

He was asked at one point what he thought about of his tenure at NYRB and if he's different now (something along these lines), his answer came across to me as a bit defensive in that he argued that expectations didn't really line up with the reality of a club having the third lowest payroll. He then went on to talk about his pressing stats which showed NYRB doing quite well in winning the ball back among other things. He also used the excuse of Tyler Adams leaving which created a major hole for them. Personally I prefer people owning up to how they did.

I'm not sure what to think overall. I like many here would have wanted someone with some real pedigree. I do like however that he's well respected by Bradley as I do view Bradley as a great leader. I also really love pressing football so part of me is excited to see a bit of that this year even though we don't have team built for it.

I do think we're going to start seeing some major changes, Jozy may not last long if we're really going to jump full into a press system and I also see Michael becoming an assistant here once he's done. On Michael, Armas stated that he is as hungry as ever to get back onto the field and prove people wrong so I do look forward to that. He did look like he lost a step last year but the man cares more than many, he is full on TFC.

Overall, somewhat disappointed but I'm ready to see what happens next and we have no choice now but to get behind Armas and this team and hope that the leadership team pulls in a quality DP.

[Yohan]

I listened to Armas' interview on ExtraTime Radio (MLS) and I came away with a couple of thoughts.

He was asked at one point what he thought about of his tenure at NYRB and if he's different now (something along these lines), his answer came across to me as a bit defensive in that he argued that expectations didn't really line up with the reality of a club having the third lowest payroll. He then went on to talk about his pressing stats which showed NYRB doing quite well in winning the ball back among other things. He also used the excuse of Tyler Adams leaving which created a major hole for them. Personally I prefer people owning up to how they did.

I'm not sure what to think overall. I like many here would have wanted someone with some real pedigree. I do like however that he's well respected by Bradley as I do view Bradley as a great leader. I also really love pressing football so part of me is excited to see a bit of that this year even though we don't have team built for it.

I do think we're going to start seeing some major changes, Jozy may not last long if we're really going to jump full into a press system and I also see Michael becoming an assistant here once he's done. On Michael, Armas stated that he is as hungry as ever to get back onto the field and prove people wrong so I do look forward to that. He did look like he lost a step last year but the man cares more than many, he is full on TFC.

Overall, somewhat disappointed but I'm ready to see what happens next and we have no choice now but to get behind Armas and this team and hope that the leadership team pulls in a quality DP.
There's going to be a lot of changes, as TFC aren't built for a press. The big question mark will be, does Pozuelo buy into the press and does his bit. Nico Lodeiro runs his ass off for press for Seattle, but he's an exceptional case for a playmaker, rather than the norm.

Add in the fact that the kids are likely going to get more playtime. Growing pains and allowing them to make mistakes. Well, win now vs developing the kids is probably the hardest thing you can do to run a team.

Bottom line is, I think TFC is going to be maybe a mid table team. Armas didn't get hired to win now. He got hired to set up TFC on a certain trajectory, which requires a lot of changes.

[Kamp Berg]

There's going to be a lot of changes, as TFC aren't built for a press. The big question mark will be, does Pozuelo buy into the press and does his bit. Nico Lodeiro runs his ass off for press for Seattle, but he's an exceptional case for a playmaker, rather than the norm.

Add in the fact that the kids are likely going to get more playtime. Growing pains and allowing them to make mistakes. Well, win now vs developing the kids is probably the hardest thing you can do to run a team.

Bottom line is, I think TFC is going to be maybe a mid table team. Armas didn't get hired to win now. He got hired to set up TFC on a certain trajectory, which requires a lot of changes.

The hard part to understand is why the FO is lying about it. Do they think that if the team started winning consistently that a lot more people will come to the games and follow the team? If so, that’s seems like a huge underestimation of the Toronto sports environment. Really doesn’t seem like many people are paying attention to TFC since Seba left.

[ag futbol]

The Belgians bought the jays and stopped spending money. Nothing to do with the strike whatsoever.

And we were always sold out. Always. until 2012 which was soul destroying.

Otherwise, you are not wrong.
I dunno.

Pre-strike, post-strike there was a 10,000 person drop in attendance in one season. And it’s been a slow death steady decline of sorts ever since.We lost our only other Canadian team after the Expos who were in a good position to break through and win everything were relegated to the sidelines.

Sure the Belgians were cheap. But in the end it’s all a marketing exercise in giving people what they want ... and after that strike a lot of them didn’t want baseball anymore.

I think the sellout language used by the club after year 3-4 or so was dubious. Edit: but I think we can generally agree the club has generally done well attendance wise with the exception of the area immediately pre-Defoe when all just seemed hopeless.

[MightyDM]

I dunno.

Pre-strike, post-strike there was a 10,000 person drop in attendance in one season. And it’s been a slow death steady decline of sorts ever since.We lost our only other Canadian team after the Expos who were in a good position to break through and win everything were relegated to the sidelines.

Sure the Belgians were cheap. But in the end it’s all a marketing exercise in giving people what they want ... and after that strike a lot of them didn’t want baseball anymore.

I think the sellout language used by the club after year 3-4 or so was dubious. Edit: but I think we can generally agree the club has generally done well attendance wise with the exception of the area immediately pre-Defoe when all just seemed hopeless.


agree.

I was a Jays season ticket holder and gave them up at renewal for '94 because they got rid of several excellent players ($$$) and raised the price of beer. it got up my nose, but you are right that others might have lost interest given the absence of baseball during the strike

[bought with blo]

agree.

I was a Jays season ticket holder and gave them up at renewal for '94 because they got rid of several excellent players ($$$) and raised the price of beer. it got up my nose, but you are right that others might have lost interest given the absence of baseball during the strike
For me it was the reason for the strike. Using the world series as leverage, tells me that it is not a dream. If the world series is simply a negotiation tactic and not a dream, I will choose to not care about it.
Baseball died for me with that strike.
Talking to a season ticket seller at a show a decade or so ago, he mentioned that he was still hearing a lot that 1994 strike was why people didn't want tickets. I would bet my generation was pretty much lost to baseball with that strike.

[jabbronies]

You’re right, he did okay with what he had. But can you honestly say you’ve seen anything from him that in stills confidence that he can be successful running a big club?

I haven't seen anything yet to tell me the opposite. He will never get credit for it, but while he was here he:

- Brought in Omar
- Brought in Piatti
- Drafted Achara (verdict is still out on him, but his initial impression prior to the injury have been good)
- Pozuelo? He had a hand in that - no matter how small - it got done.
- Got enough pieces in for us to an MLS Cup final

[Kamp Berg]

I haven't seen anything yet to tell me the opposite. He will never get credit for it, but while he was here he:

- Brought in Omar
- Brought in Piatti
- Drafted Achara (verdict is still out on him, but his initial impression prior to the injury have been good)
- Pozuelo? He had a hand in that - no matter how small - it got done.
- Got enough pieces in for us to an MLS Cup final

I would argue that Pozuelo is the only hiring you listed that has brought true value, and he was supposedly on the radar far before Curtis came. I personally think Omar is very overrated, Piatti was admittedly a stop-gap, and Archara is a crap shoot. That said, I believe Curtis is good for younger players, including Archara.

[jabbronies]

I would argue that Pozuelo is the only hiring you listed that has brought true value, and he was supposedly on the radar far before Curtis came. I personally think Omar is very overrated, Piatti was admittedly a stop-gap, and Archara is a crap shoot. That said, I believe Curtis is good for younger players, including Archara.


I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.

For me - I will get a better indication of Curtis' abilities when:

- Our Next DP signing.

- In the long term (2-3 years) I want to see how many academy products are in the starting 11 - or at least on the subs bench as viable options

- Remaining Shield, MLS Cup and CCL contenders through all of this - I expect us to make honest runs at those trophies on the regular. Not expecting finals all the time, but I should never have to question wether or not we are good enough to make those runs.

I felt we should've made runs at the Orlando cup, Supporters Shield and the MLS Cup last year. But i'll give benefit of the doubt. They were away from home and that does take its toll.

[Kamp Berg]

I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.

For me - I will get a better indication of Curtis' abilities when:

- Our Next DP signing.

- In the long term (2-3 years) I want to see how many academy products are in the starting 11 - or at least on the subs bench as viable options

- Remaining Shield, MLS Cup and CCL contenders through all of this - I expect us to make honest runs at those trophies on the regular. Not expecting finals all the time, but I should never have to question wether or not we are good enough to make those runs.

I felt we should've made runs at the Orlando cup, Supporters Shield and the MLS Cup last year. But i'll give benefit of the doubt. They were away from home and that does take its toll.

I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. It’s hard to believe in someone who always seems like he’s full of shit.
I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
I’m really hoping Curtis will come through and show that he’s just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.

[jabbronies]

I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. It’s hard to believe in someone who always seems like he’s full of shit.
I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
I’m really hoping Curtis will come through and show that he’s just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.

Good Luck finding a team that will part with a CB the likes of Drew Moor. I'm not sure how we got him, but man, that was a rare steal... Similar to us getting Giovinco on the free.

Deals for these types of players are not everywhere just waiting to be had. I thought Omar was "good enough". His leadership out the back help get us to that 2019 Final. He's no Drew Moor, but he is more than capable to do the job.

[jabbronies]

I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. It’s hard to believe in someone who always seems like he’s full of shit.
I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
I’m really hoping Curtis will come through and show that he’s just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.


So not to toot Curtis' horn too much - I have noticed he has a ceiling and it's with his contacts list. I'm hoping he has more contacts outside of the NYRB.

[Bushmancan]

I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.
.

I think i saw the true value of Piatti was when he was not in the lineup.... we were a different team and not necessarily in a good way without him. Even though they knocked him around, he was good on the ball.

[MightyDM]

I think i saw the true value of Piatti was when he was not in the lineup.... we were a different team and not necessarily in a good way without him. Even though they knocked him around, he was good on the ball.

I really liked Piatti - and I view his injury was an overuse injury similar to those of Oso and Marky - very tidy and effective player. Not quite a DP but very good.