TFC 2020-2021 player off-season roster discussion

[Oldtimer]

TFC 2020=2021

General roster discussion

Player off-season moves/speculation/rumours
Post your speculation/information/etc. here in this thread!

Confirmed (by traditional media or the club) signings can get a separate single thread. All other "inside" and other information goes here.

[MightyDM]

Oldtimer! Its not the offseason for HOURS yet....

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer! Its not the offseason for HOURS yet....

LOL :rofl:

[MikeForbes]

There is an MLS trade freeze coming at 1pm today before the upcoming expansion draft on the 15th.

[TFC1154ever]

Was just thinking about DP level players that are coming out of contract in 2021, and can play wing. A name that I saw that reminds me a lot of Giovinco age wise, playing time, and talent wise stood out, and he’s a free agent come 2021.

Julian Draxler. I thought to myself there is no chance, but that’s the same thing I said about Gio before he came.

[RealG-TFC]

Speaking of Seba, it looks like he might be on his way out of Al-Hilal?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIyWlnZnwDG/

[MikeForbes]

Was just thinking about DP level players that are coming out of contract in 2021, and can play wing. A name that I saw that reminds me a lot of Giovinco age wise, playing time, and talent wise stood out, and he’s a free agent come 2021.

Julian Draxler. I thought to myself there is no chance, but that’s the same thing I said about Gio before he came.

As a person with German heritage, I would adore Draxler.

[rydermike]

TFC Unprotected Players for Expansion Draft:

Endoh, Gallardo, Mullins, Silva

Also Ciman, Gallacher, Morrow, Zavaleta, Piatti (out of contract players)

[MikeForbes]

Endoh would be the only guy who might be taken. Mullinho is who a smart team would take though. ;)

[rydermike]

Endoh would be the only guy who might be taken. Mullinho is who a smart team would take though. ;)

Maybe not. Endoh was unprotected last year as well. The fact that he costs an International Spot makes him less likely. I think that was TFC's reasoning

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Surprised Jozy isn’t on our list. Is there any reasoning to that? Or are we about to pull off the sale of the century?

[rydermike]

Surprised Jozy isn’t on our list. Is there any reasoning to that? Or are we about to pull off the sale of the century?

He probably has a no-trade clause, which makes him automatically protected

[OgtheDim]

You don't give up a DP for free given somebody somewhere would pay a fee for him.

[rydermike]

You don't give up a DP for free given somebody somewhere would pay a fee for him.
Depends on the fee. Realistically what would Jozy fetch on the transfer market right now?

If someone wanted to offer 2million for him, and we have to pay half of his 6 million salary, that's a net loss, in which case no fee and no retained salary would be better.

[NK Toronto]

You don't give up a DP for free given somebody somewhere would pay a fee for him.

I would be shocked if there was a club anywhere that would want him, even on a free transfer.

[Auzzy]

TFC Unprotected Players for Expansion Draft:

Endoh, Gallardo, Mullins, Silva

Also Ciman, Gallacher, Morrow, Zavaleta, Piatti (out of contract players)

Potentially sucks for Ciman, given his history, even if it makes sense for TFC. I could see him retiring if Austin takes him, which is doubtful anyway.

Piatti is probably thinking WTF is this. I hope somebody told him about expansion drafts and other MLS shenanigans before he signed here.

[portu]

You don't give up a DP for free given somebody somewhere would pay a fee for him.
We are in a uniquely fucked position. Even if a club wanted him, they wouldn’t get anywhere near matching his salary. Therefore, he would never consent to a transfer. Realistically the only way to shed Jozy is to buy him out.

(And I think we should, even if it means spending less on a replacement DP for the next two years.)

[OgtheDim]

I would be shocked if there was a club anywhere that would want him, even on a free transfer.

People on here really really need to get out of the "I don't like him therefore nobody must like him" way of thinking about our DPs.

The only thing standing in some people's way would be his current contract, and given Jozy wants to play next season to be ready for 2022 World Cup, he has an incentive to find a place even if he has to drop his salary.

LigaMx, Eredivise & MLS teams would all take him.

[rydermike]

Potentially sucks for Ciman, given his history, even if it makes sense for TFC. I could see him retiring if Austin takes him, which is doubtful anyway.

Ciman is a free agent starting Wednesday. Austin won't pick him. If they were to pick him he's under no obligation to join and can just sign here as an mls free agent.

[NK Toronto]

Last season Jozy scored 2 goals, was regularly injured, was out of shape the whole year, and he is over 30. Those are all facts, not my opinion. Generally speaking these are not the qualities most teams are looking for.

[Ultra & Proud]

Last season Jozy scored 2 goals, was regularly injured, was out of shape the whole year, and he is over 30. Those are all facts, not my opinion. Generally speaking these are not the qualities most teams are looking for.

This is it. Nobody anywhere would be stupid enough to take Jozy at this stage. The only thing missing from NK's accurate base of facts is Jozy's general disinterest and unprofessional attitude. Before that's questioned, in my opinion, a veteran player who is the highest paid on the squad and was the captain before the Covid break should have exercised and kept fit to some degree during that time. He did not. With his health history and status on the team that says all you need to know about him.

People were quick to say Piatti was a waste of a DP spot in one season (his first MLS season too) because of lack of DP level production and because he got a typical injury near the end of a tough run. Jozy was much worse and making a lot more money and his injury history is even worse than Patti's.

2017 nostalgia might sway some TFC supporter opinions but that's where it ends.

[Joe Kool]

People on here really really need to get out of the "I don't like him therefore nobody must like him" way of thinking about our DPs.

The only thing standing in some people's way would be his current contract, and given Jozy wants to play next season to be ready for 2022 World Cup, he has an incentive to find a place even if he has to drop his salary.

LigaMx, Eredivise & MLS teams would all take him.

So question to you is.....do you think Jozy is worth it for what he is doing for the team right now for the price TFC are paying? Because that is all I see that people are saying for the most part. I think the last line of your post should also read "LigaMx, Eredivise & MLS teams would all take him but not at the price TFC are paying"

[kuku]

Will Forbes @TransfersMLS

Sources tell me Toronto FC and Inter Miami are making a big push to sign Borre from River Plate. Miami holds his discovery rights. NYCFC and LAFC are also interested in the Colombian internation

[noxx98]

Jordan Perruzza posted on Instagram that he's signed with Paradigm Sports Management. That's the same agency as Jozy. Most of their players appear to be MLS/USL players.

[MikeForbes]

Borre would be interesting. Only 25. Wonder what signing a DP striker would mean for Akinola if both Borre is signed and Altidore stays?

[Ultra & Proud]

Borre would be interesting. Only 25. Wonder what signing a DP striker would mean for Akinola if both Borre is signed and Altidore stays?
Just hoping the new manager insists that MLSE bite the bullet and cut our $6.5M anchor loose so we don't have to worry about such things anymore.

[MikeForbes]

Just hoping the new manager insists that MLSE bite the bullet and cut our $6.5M anchor loose so we don't have to worry about such things anymore.

I hear that. Signing another DP striker would hopefully mean something is happening with Jozy.

[reggie]

i doubt TFC pay 10 - 11 mil for a dp this season,they will probs hold that card for the new gaffer.

[Areathrasher]

Interesting that Santos Borre's contract expires in June 2021....

[ag futbol]

Looks good, too bad we have to fight other teams for his signature...

Not to beat a dead horse but it makes a lot of sense to look at Pavon. My Paul Mariner scouting report indicates he looks similar and as an added bonus we know how he’s capable of playing in MLS

[NK Toronto]

Just hoping the new manager insists that MLSE bite the bullet and cut our $6.5M anchor loose so we don't have to worry about such things anymore.

I just don't see that happening. Manning would have to approach the MLSE board and basically admit that he screwed up in giving out that contract. He would essentially be undermining his own credibility to ownership.
Sometimes self preservation trumps the right thing to do in office politics.

On the bright side Jozy was essentially a non entity in 2020 so almost anything we get from him in 2021 would be an improvement. Hopefully he has enough pride and determination to show his critics that there is something left in the tank.

[rydermike]

Expansion Draft starts at 6pm. We'll find out if we lose anyone by 6:15, since Austin has 3 minutes between each pick

[MikeForbes]

Expansion Draft starts at 6pm. We'll find out if we lose anyone by 6:15, since Austin has 3 minutes between each pick

This can be watched at mlssoccer.com for anyone without a life like me.

[rydermike]

Austin doesn't have a keeper. We're a bit thin on defence. Kamal Miller and Derek Cornelius are both unprotected Canadian defenders. Maybe a Bono swap based around a pick one of those two?

[Bobo]

No TFC player chosen in the draft. Make of that what you will.

[rydermike]

1
Austin FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_FC)
Danny Hoesen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Hoesen)
San Jose Earthquakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_Earthquakes)



2
Austin FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_FC)
Jared Stroud (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Stroud)
New York City FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_FC)



3
Austin FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_FC)
Brady Scott (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Scott)
Nashville SC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_SC)



4
Austin FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_FC)
Joe Corona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Corona)
Los Angeles Galaxy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Galaxy)



5
Austin FC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_FC)
Kamal Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Miller)
Orlando City SC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_City_SC)

[rydermike]

Impact acquire Kamal Miller for 225K in GAM and 11th overall pick

[ag futbol]

^ Beat me to it. Non flashy but serviceable Canadian LB.

I wonder if we’d consider having Edwards or Morgan back as backups. Both available, also not sure if either is the answer.

[MikeForbes]

Didn't think TFC would lose anyone. Now on to free agency and the re-entry draft.

[rydermike]

Justin Morrow wants to re-sign and retire with the reds https://www.wakingthered.com/2020/12/15/22176781/pending-free-agent-justin-morrow-i-want-to-finish-my-career-in-toronto

[OgtheDim]

So question to you is.....do you think Jozy is worth it for what he is doing for the team right now for the price TFC are paying?"

No I don't think he is currently worth the DP slot.

The idea being floated is he would not find a team to play on anywhere but TFC - that is patently absurd.

[portu]

No I don't think he is currently worth the DP slot.

The idea being floated is he would not find a team to play on anywhere but TFC - that is patently absurd.
I think that’s a little unfair. The argument is more that no team on earth is serving him a contract even remotely close to the 4-6m he’s been on the last 5 years. The list of MLS teams that would want him right now on this contract is likely zero. If he were at the 2.5m range (which would never happen unless he found the right Euro/MX club IMO) I still think the list of teams queuing for him would be countable on a few fingers at best.

[NK Toronto]

No TFC player chosen in the draft. Make of that what you will.

It just speaks to our lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11. This is why Vanney had to play guys until they were run into the ground. There was nothing on the bench.

[OgtheDim]

I was responding to this


I would be shocked if there was a club anywhere that would want him, even on a free transfer.

[OgtheDim]

It just speaks to our lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11. This is why Vanney had to play guys until they were run into the ground. There was nothing on the bench.


This is an opinion not shared by most MLS observers. We lack certain things. Lacking any depth is hyperbole.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I think that’s a little unfair. The argument is more that no team on earth is serving him a contract even remotely close to the 4-6m he’s been on the last 5 years. The list of MLS teams that would want him right now on this contract is likely zero. If he were at the 2.5m range (which would never happen unless he found the right Euro/MX club IMO) I still think the list of teams queuing for him would be countable on a few fingers at best.

IMHO there would be some Arab or Chinese clubs that would pay max 3 mil per year to Jozy, on a free transfer. This way TFC could be eating just half of his salary for the 21 and 22 seasons, lol.
But the thing is Jozy would never accept to go to some shitty Arab league or to China.

In no other "serious" league (like in Europe outside the top 5, the next 5 leagues maybe) would anyone pay him more than 2 mil per year.

[Yohan]

It just speaks to our lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11. This is why Vanney had to play guys until they were run into the ground. There was nothing on the bench.
Or, Austin had an idea what players they wanted to target based on Josh Wolff's preference. Austin picked up 2 starters, traded a player for a nice pot of GAM, and 2 depth guys.

It really doesn't say anything about TFC's depth, just because TFC players didn't get picked.

[rydermike]

It just speaks to our lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11. This is why Vanney had to play guys until they were run into the ground. There was nothing on the bench.

I don't think it really says much about our depth. We had very few players actually exposed due to a high number of automatically protected players and out-of contract players (there is no reason to pick an out-of-contract given they would become free agents today or could pick them in the re-entry draft thursday)

Guys like Delgado, Akinola, Priso, and Nelson were automatically protected, so we didn't have to waste protection spots on them. Then players like Piatti and Ciman are out-of-contract.

We only had four players truly exposed:
Gallardo and Endoh - both are bench players who require international spots (Austin already had 5 international players and added one in Housen during the draft. Probably wouldn't want to waste one of their 2 remaining spots on a bench player)
Silva is a 3rd string keeper
Mullins is a bench player with a very high wage

Our exposed players weren't really attractive. We were fortunate not to have to leave a quality contracted player like Kamal Miller unprotected

[ag futbol]

I think there is merit to each side of this argument. Generally, we have depth. Some positions are better than others however.

It’s a question of whether Vanney’s unwillingness to rotate certain spots was a question of lack of faith or simply a strong desire to play his best option each and every time out.

Prior to Priso joining the first team, I might have argued we lacked a 4th CM. Clearly, there was limited trust in Fraser and with all of Delgado, Osorio, and Bradley typically making a first choice 11.... nobody was really available as a late game sub.

As many have pointed out, that should have been a necessity and better way to shore up the team when defending late, rather than doing our 3rd CB trick which never worked

[Yohan]

Free agency opens today.

And I'm bored, so here are some interesting available free agents. I tried to shy away from int'l spot players, and concentrate on what TFC needs for depth.

Full list: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/15/complete-list-free-agents-2021-mls-season

Matt Besler (CB, 34 in Feb): SKC didn't renew his contract, but long time MLS guy who can organize a defence. Legs are slow, but if he's got another year or two, could be an interesting 3rd CB esp paired with Mavinga. (and if the salary is right) I'm thinking hopefully another Drew Moor effect.

Dom Dwyer (ST, 30): Coming off a season where he hardly played and a DP contract, Mr Leroux will still probably command max salary cap, maybe even TAM for teams desperate for striking power. For TFC, I'd take a punt at him. He's better than Mullinho in skill wise, but after 2 ish years of poor seasons, is he motivated?

Diego Fagundez (AM/FW, 25): Lots of MLS experience but still only 25. He's going to be a starter at an another MLS club probably, at max salary cap wage probably. I can see him be a starter on one of the wings for TFC.

Kevin Molino (AM/W/ST, 30): Not going back to Minnesota, reportedly turned down max TAM money. So I dunno if he's fishing for DP money or wants to play for a contender (even if Loons got pretty far in the playoffs this season). But if TFC gets him, legit threat on the wings. I'd throw max TAM money at him (instead of Piatti)

Lee Nguyen (CAM, 34): I'd say he should go play for Vietnamese league for one last big paycheck. But if he wants to play another season in MLS, TFC can use a creative CAM to give Pozuelo a break.

Kelyn Rowe (M, 29): If TFC needs another Marky Delgado, another versatile midfielder who can play multiple positions.

C.J. Sapong (F, 32): Think another Jozy in terms of play style. Hold up guy who puts approx 1 in 2 shots on goal. But streaky in terms of goal production.

Bradley Wright-Phillips (F, 35): One more year? Scored a bunch of goals for LAFC says BWP still has goals left in his boots after a bad 2019 season and people saying he's finished. If you want proven depth, and someone to teach the kids how to score goals in MLS.

[NK Toronto]

This is an opinion not shared by most MLS observers. We lack certain things. Lacking any depth is hyperbole.

Then why did Vanney not rest Poz, Delgado, Piatti and Osorio down the stretch when they were clearly tired, with the end result seeing all 4 end up injured? Seems to me that Vanney did not have a lot of faith in his bench. The fact that none of the unprotected players were taken in the expansion draft speaks further to the quality of that group.

[Ultra & Proud]

Then why did Vanney not rest Poz, Delgado, Piatti and Osorio down the stretch when they were clearly tired, with the end result seeing all 4 end up injured? Seems to me that Vanney did not have a lot of faith in his bench. The fact that none of the unprotected players were taken in the expansion draft speaks further to the quality of that group.
Have a feeling he knew he was leaving after the season and the Shield was right there for the taking and at least he would have left with silverware so he went after it hard. The MLS Cup playoffs are always a toss up, especially so with playing away from "home".

However, it goes back to our overall lack of conditioning. Other teams ran their main XI down the stretch too and none of them looked as ragged or beat down as we did. We were proven to be incapable of playing effectively on anything less than a weeks rest and when a run of matches mount, our guys wear out badly. As for our bench depth, it was also proven to be lacking at least offensively when given the opportunity.

In that draft almost all of our players in it were free agents who were overpaid. The ones that weren't (Endoh, Mullins, & Gallardo) either aren't great, too expensive for what they bring, or take up an international roster spot. Sometimes they're all three of those things.

[TFC1154ever]

Wheeler said yesterday that TFC will narrow down their search to 3-4 candidates before Christmas, and believes the head coach hire will happen after New Years.

[Luanda]

Wheeler said yesterday that TFC will narrow down their search to 3-4 candidates before Christmas, and believes the head coach hire will happen after New Years.

2 weeks after Jan 01!

[portu]

Wheeler said yesterday that TFC will narrow down their search to 3-4 candidates before Christmas, and believes the head coach hire will happen after New Years.
So quick in the eyes of the FO is about a month. I’ll keep that in mind kind of sad imo but what I’ve come to expect from Manning/Curtis.

[MikeForbes]

2 weeks after Jan 01!

We're two weeks away from being two weeks away!

[reggie]

@rmcsport
: Laurent #Blanc devrait s’engager avec le club Al Rayyan au Qatar. Laurent blanc est déjà au Qatar. Il sera accompagné de Franck Passi.
looks like he got bored with curtis and the 2 wk long boring interview

[portu]

@rmcsport
: Laurent #Blanc devrait s’engager avec le club Al Rayyan au Qatar. Laurent blanc est déjà au Qatar. Il sera accompagné de Franck Passi.
looks like he got bored with curtis and the 2 wk long boring interview
Honestly would not surprise me one bit if that’s exactly what happened

[Kamp Berg]

@rmcsport
: Laurent #Blanc devrait s’engager avec le club Al Rayyan au Qatar. Laurent blanc est déjà au Qatar. Il sera accompagné de Franck Passi.
looks like he got bored with curtis and the 2 wk long boring interview

I don’t think Manning and Curtis are willing to hand over as much control over acquisitions as Blanc wants.

[Smokecell]

If he’s going to Qatar it’s for money and nothing else.

Also, if Blanc was truly on the table quite frankly the play would be to fire Ali and give him whatever control he needs (this also assumes control was a talking point).

[reggie]

anybody but olsen,there is never a leak in this FO,i wish we had a insider like GOFF here maybe its KJ but he got burned before so im sure he is tight lipped right now.maybe a guy like Marco Silva?

[PaceyWinger]

so TFC was being used as leverage for more money elsewhere??? Can anyone out there believe this? lol

[reggie]

Grant Wahl
@GrantWahl
·
35m
Sources tell me LA Galaxy is finalizing a deal to make Greg Vanney its next head coach.
i never saw this coming lol

[Auzzy]

@rmcsport
: Laurent #Blanc devrait s’engager avec le club Al Rayyan au Qatar. Laurent blanc est déjà au Qatar. Il sera accompagné de Franck Passi.
looks like he got bored with curtis and the 2 wk long boring interview

Maybe Curtis showed Blanc his 200-page master plan.

[noxx98]

Laurent Blanc had been out of work since 2016. I don't think we necessarily needed to be rushing to get him in fear other teams would sign him first. They had four years to sign him before we came along and interviewed him.

[MightyDM]

If he’s going to Qatar it’s for money and nothing else.

Also, if Blanc was truly on the table quite frankly the play would be to fire Ali and give him whatever control he needs (this also assumes control was a talking point).

It is likely relevant that Qatar is hosting the world cup in 2022. Creates interesting possibilities for a high profile European manager.

[ensco]

Suspect Vanney's TFC contract is through year end, which is why nothing was announced when Vanney left.

Suspect timing of this coming out now relates to MLS free agency.

Suspect Morrow is going to LAG.

[Oldtimer]

Suspect Vanney's TFC contract is through year end, which is why nothing was announced when Vanney left.

Suspect timing of this coming out now relates to MLS free agency.

Suspect Morrow is going to LAG.

I want a blockbuster deal where TFC trades Eriq Zavaleta to LAG. :D

[reggie]

yes i think zava goes for sure,he is a FA,would not be shocked if they try to trade for delgado for some good GAM and mullins for a roll of tape

[benito]

Laurent Blanc has signed with Al-Rayyan.

https://www.thescore.com/us_fed/news/2073998 (https://www.thescore.com/us_fed/news/2073998)

[reggie]

Laurent Blanc has signed with Al-Rayyan.

https://www.thescore.com/us_fed/news/2073998 (https://www.thescore.com/us_fed/news/2073998)
im sure curtis is mad,because he was only on pg 50 of his 200 pg interview with blanc.hello olsen or dom

[rydermike]

I want a blockbuster deal where TFC trades Eriq Zavaleta to LAG. :D

Zavaleta is a free agent.

[NK Toronto]

This forum is very quiet. Does anyone know of any rumours of new potential signings?

[jabbronies]

Laurent Blanc was always a rumour signing. So no surprise it didn't pan out.

I'm not against Manning and Curtis wanting to be in control of signings. The last thing you want is for a manager to come in and dismantle the team only to leave 5 months later (see Preki example).

I get it, managers want control over the players coming in - but this model will be the norm in the the future.
The only managers who will be given this type of over-reaching control will be the cream of the crop. The Klopp/Pep type managers. The ones who know how to manager the football club from top to bottom - not just the first team. There are very few managers that can do this.

[rydermike]

I agree that Blanc was never going to come here. I don't know what Vanney was making, but Blanc would probably be expecting a salary that was probably at least double or more than whatever Vanney made, not even to mention the level of control

[MikeForbes]

This forum is very quiet. Does anyone know of any rumours of new potential signings?

I wouldn't expect much in terms of rumors until after the new year.

[Red CB Toronto]

With Christmas this Friday , it is bound to be quiet, do we even know when they are planning on having the players back at the facility? We know some of the squad are home overseas.

[MikeForbes]

Vieira supposedly the number one choice for manager.

https://twitter.com/KevLaramee/status/1340679889142296576?s=20

[reggie]

if true,would not be shocked if cheyrou was on his staff

[RealG-TFC]

if true,would not be shocked if cheyrou was on his staff

Probably in need of a job after Telefoot going under

[MikeForbes]

Player rumor: Pakhtakor's Dostonbek Khamdamov. He is a 24 year old winger who is out of contract as of January 1st.

https://twitter.com/championatasia1/status/1340739492861386752?s=20

[NK Toronto]

Player rumor: Pakhtakor's Dostonbek Khamdamov. He is a 24 year old winger who is out of contract as of January 1st.

https://twitter.com/championatasia1/status/1340739492861386752?s=20

Market value of 900,000 Euros is not much. We can do better than this.

[James17930]

Market value of 900,000 Euros is not much. We can do better than this.

Either that, or he's an underrated steal. You can't really say unless you know the player.

[MikeForbes]

Market value of 900,000 Euros is not much. We can do better than this.

He wouldn't be a DP or anything. Probably be able to sign him for 250-350k and see what he has in his locker. I am okay with it.

[ag futbol]

Either that, or he's an underrated steal. You can't really say unless you know the player.
Already more than enough attempts at bargains on the wing. We need to go big or go home.

[portu]

Already more than enough attempts at bargains on the wing. We need to go big or go home.
Agreed. Less gambling and rehab projects more sure bets.

[Ultra & Proud]

Already more than enough attempts at bargains on the wing. We need to go big or go home.
Replace Gallardo with this guy and I am good. He will be cheap and it's worth taking a shot at that rate and hopefully it will at least boost the bench depth (unlike Gallardo).

[ag futbol]

Replace Gallardo with this guy and I am good. He will be cheap and it's worth taking a shot at that rate and hopefully it will at least boost the bench depth (unlike Gallardo).
I’m fine with that. As long as this isn’t supposed to be the answer out wide.

It’s clear we need a DP quality player up top. If Altidore isn’t getting bought out, my expectation is we sign someone.

[MikeForbes]

Cristian Tello recently started following Pozuelo on Instagram. Just saying.

[RealG-TFC]

Cristian Tello recently started following Pozuelo on Instagram. Just saying.

This is who I thought we were going to land before they announced Piatti. Would be a great signing, Betis have been struggling lately and it wouldn't surprise me if he's looking to move on

[MikeForbes]

This is who I thought we were going to land before they announced Piatti. Would be a great signing, Betis have been struggling lately and it wouldn't surprise me if he's looking to move on

Tello fits the bill. He was rumored to be heading to Inter Miami earlier in the year so MLS is definitely something he has considered.

[Areathrasher]

Cristian Tello recently started following Pozuelo on Instagram. Just saying.
Could just be a Betis link.

[MikeForbes]

Could just be a Betis link.

Probably is. Seems a perfect fit for TFC though.

[Mikmacdo]

Pabon would be perfect

[DavemTFC]

Pavon looks to be going back to Boca unfortunately

Tello would likely be a great signing though

[ag futbol]

I think it’s all posturing by Boca. He is very much for sale but won’t come cheap.

The purchase price on his loan deal was 20 million. Realistically, I would suspect something around 15 million would do the trick. Unfortunately, I’m not sure many MLS teams have the ability to take a swing at that sort of price.

[Bushmancan]

I think it’s all posturing by Boca. He is very much for sale but won’t come cheap.

The purchase price on his loan deal was 20 million. Realistically, I would suspect something around 15 million would do the trick. Unfortunately, I’m not sure many MLS teams have the ability to take a swing at that sort of price.

So would you take Piatti on a TAM deal and get another DP. Or go for Pavon?

[NK Toronto]

So would you take Piatti on a TAM deal and get another DP. Or go for Pavon?

I would get another DP and another TAM. We have too many injury prone players on the wrong side of thirty as it is. We need to get younger and faster and healthier.

[OgtheDim]

We have 2 more seasons of this being Poz' team (might get extended but can only count on 21 & 22) - you get what he needs to be successful.

Now, Poz might think he needs a fellow spanish speaking wide right guy by the name of Piatti but I don't think that is the right use of resources to be successful those 2 seasons. I'd rather see the TAM used on a younger more mobile defender.

[East Coast Red]

Let the rumours begin!

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55464842

[ag futbol]

So would you take Piatti on a TAM deal and get another DP. Or go for Pavon?
Leaving Piatti aside, I would take Pavon every day of the week. He’s capable of individual brilliance and can be a playmaker if Pozuelo is out of the lineup. Also fits in that FW slot where we need someone. It’s proven he can play in MLS and he did it on a dysfunctional team. He might burn the house down with a proper setup around him.

[Bushmancan]

Leaving Piatti aside, I would take Pavon every day of the week. He’s capable of individual brilliance and can be a playmaker if Pozuelo is out of the lineup. Also fits in that FW slot where we need someone. It’s proven he can play in MLS and he did it on a dysfunctional team. He might burn the house down with a proper setup around him.

I have changed my opinion on him, and I think you are right. As much as we have been picking on Jozy. We looked indestructible with Poz in the Central Middle, Piatti on the right and Laryea/Achara on the left with a healthy Jozy/Akinola as Striker. For those couple of games the attack had so many options.

The options would be even more phenomenal with Pavon upfront on the Left and the with the younger guys 1 more year under their belt. Not forgetting that Oso and Delgado looked pretty good there as well.

[rydermike]

Let the rumours begin!

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55464842

We already had the best player from the 1987 Barcelona U15 Academy group. The 2nd best player should be ok, shouldn't be too much of a downgrade ;) .

https://www.givemesport.com/1387058-what-happened-to-victor-vazquez-who-was-said-to-be-better-than-barcelonas-lionel-messi

[MikeForbes]

With a likely strike coming, I wouldn't expect any kind of rush in finding a DP.

[Shway]

With a likely strike coming, I wouldn't expect any kind of rush in finding a DP.

But the DP's aren't reallyyy affected by the CBA.

[reggie]

With a likely strike coming, I wouldn't expect any kind of rush in finding a DP.
at the pace curtis gets things done i dont think we have worry about getting anything done real fast or soon.

[OgtheDim]

But the DP's aren't reallyyy affected by the CBA.


No CBA means the DP rules are up for negotiation.

[levyashin]

At the moment everything is in play management are putting all there ducks in a row to safeguard the future of the league as they see it.
The players union have read and recorded the league statement and will now wait until the very last minute to see which way the wind blows.
Between now and commencement of play WHENEVER that is there will be thousands of words sprouted by both sides meaning dick all.
If there are no crowds allowed then management will call for a lockout while the union will not call a strike until d-day when all will be revealed.
As for our beloved TFC GM and President they will just follow their league protocol and keep up with news flashes about intended targets.
The main concern to us die hard fans is how good a coach do we get and will he be allowed to get on with his job without interference.

[Phil744]

Former New York Red Bulls head coach Chris Armas has interviewed for Toronto FC's head coaching vacancy multiple times, sources tell @Dylan_Butler and myself.

RBNY and Armas parted ways in September. He also interviewed with D.C. United this winter.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/31/sources-chris-armas-interviews-toronto-fc-head-coaching-job

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Former New York Red Bulls head coach Chris Armas has interviewed for Toronto FC's head coaching vacancy multiple times, sources tell @Dylan_Butler and myself.

RBNY and Armas parted ways in September. He also interviewed with D.C. United this winter.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/31/sources-chris-armas-interviews-toronto-fc-head-coaching-job

Armas would be horrible for TFC! :facepalm:

[jabbronies]

Armas would be horrible for TFC! :facepalm:


I don't know NYRB that well, but it looks like he rode the work put in by Jesse Marsch in 2018 to win the supporters shield, but he couldn't maintain it since. mid-table teams, they made the playoffs, but did nothing.

[bought with blo]

Don't care for Armas as our coach, but it is good that a minority candidate is getting more than a casual look. If we went this direction, I would prefer Bent. At least his ceiling is more unknown. With Armas we have a decent idea what we are getting. And we don't want it.

[MikeForbes]

A random thought: With the uncertainty surrounding when/if the season will begin, we should be actively searching for loan options for our young players like Nelson, Priso and JMR. These guys need to get professional minutes.

[James17930]

Don't care for Armas as our coach, but it is good that a minority candidate is getting more than a casual look. If we went this direction, I would prefer Bent. At least his ceiling is more unknown. With Armas we have a decent idea what we are getting. And we don't want it.

I've been thinking about Bent. I wonder if he is actively in the discussion or not. Is he an actual candidate? Does he want the job? Has he been interviewed?

Seems to me that he would provide the most continuity from Vanney (other than somehow getting Robin Fraser back). But he hasn't seem to be mentioned in relation to the job at all.

Anyone have any info?

[rydermike]

A random thought: With the uncertainty surrounding when/if the season will begin, we should be actively searching for loan options for our young players like Nelson, Priso and JMR. These guys need to get professional minutes.

Jahkelle might not be allowed to go on loan. I know there's some kind of FIFA rule that prevents international transfers of U18 players - I don't know the full mechanics of it. It would probably apply to loans as well.

[OgtheDim]

Priso should get some starts next year. I think he's passed Fraser on my mental depth chart (not being a pundit and all).

[Yohan]

Priso should get some starts next year. I think he's passed Fraser on my mental depth chart (not being a pundit and all).
after just 4 games, only one start, is that enough look on Priso to say he's better than Fraser?

[OgtheDim]

after just 4 games, only one start, is that enough look on Priso to say he's better than Fraser?


On my mental depth chart, yes. He deserves the chance to be seen more.

BTW, I was in BMO for that CanMNT vs. USMNT game - I know the potential of Fraser within a certain framework and don't see that happening at TFC while Poz is in the squad.

[OgtheDim]

Free agent list

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/15/complete-list-free-agents-2021-mls-season

[Auzzy]

Free agent list

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/15/complete-list-free-agents-2021-mls-season

Is it just me, or does that seem like a longer than normal list of very well-known MLS names? In years where things were going better financially, would some of those perhaps have been re-signed earlier, before it was time to release the free-agent list? And wow some of those names make me feel very old. Like Diego Fagundez already Out of Contract?

[Oldtimer]

I And wow some of those names make me feel very old. Like Diego Fagundez already Out of Contract?

10 years ago may make you feel very old. Time sure flies.

For me, very old is remembering Pele playing for the Cosmos. I feel very old (or is that very, very old?).

[Oldtimer]

Free agent list

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/12/15/complete-list-free-agents-2021-mls-season

Zavaleta a free agent? I wonder if he'll go to LA?

[reggie]

im sure he will join uncle vanney,hopefully we get some kinda news next week,coach,morrow,piatti,the dp contract for mullins:drinking:

[Auzzy]

10 years ago may make you feel very old. Time sure flies.

For me, very old is remembering Pele playing for the Cosmos. I feel very old (or is that very, very old?).

Yup that's old. :D NASL does feel like a different life for me. I saw Pele play for the Cosmos, live in the old Giants stadium. I remember him scoring a nice PK in the game. We drove down from the Boston suburbs for that. Mostly I was following the New England Tea Men at the time (but I only saw them play live in the old Foxborough stadium maybe once or twice).

What really scares me though: I used to be able to remember most details about TFC, like almost all former players, even specific games and results. Now so much of that is a blur, and I'm only 53. Yikes!

[ensco]

I still remember a lot of Blizzard stuff. Thunderfoot. Jomo and Ace Not-So-Long-Ago. I wanted TFC to be named the Blizzard...

[MightyDM]

well, if you are my age, "Henderson! Henderson scores for Canada" is the defining sports moment of your life, on flickering B&W TV. But for a TFC fan, surely the the 2016 second leg was the most fun, in person event we will have. Hard to top that.

And of the Goal scorers that day, only Jozy is left.

[Oldtimer]

Yup that's old. :D NASL does feel like a different life for me. I saw Pele play for the Cosmos, live in the old Giants stadium. I remember him scoring a nice PK in the game. We drove down from the Boston suburbs for that. Mostly I was following the New England Tea Men at the time (but I only saw them play live in the old Foxborough stadium maybe once or twice).

What really scares me though: I used to be able to remember most details about TFC, like almost all former players, even specific games and results. Now so much of that is a blur, and I'm only 53. Yikes!

Never saw Pele live, you're fortunate. My dad and I watched him on TV, I remember seeing him do one of his trademark bicycle kicks! Gotta love the original NASL with the crazy rule changes, gimmicks, cheerleaders, and ridiculous commentary.

I think with TFC there's been so many players over the years, and twists and turns in the saga it's hard to keep track. That's much different from any other sports team though. How many people can name much of the team besides Jamie Vardy when Leicester shock won the EPL? How many Leafs fans can remember much of the 1993 Leafs team? Or name more than 7 players on the 1992 Blue Jays? etc. It all becomes a blur after enough seasons.

[jloome]

I still remember a lot of Blizzard stuff. Thunderfoot. Jomo and Ace Not-So-Long-Ago. I wanted TFC to be named the Blizzard...

When we first moved to Canada (returned, for my mum and sisters) from the UK in 1980, I remember my father telling me Sir Stanley Matthews had retired to Toronto, and that was a massive endorsement in his eyes.

[reggie]

When we first moved to Canada (returned, for my mum and sisters) from the UK in 1980, I remember my father telling me Sir Stanley Matthews had retired to Toronto, and that was a massive endorsement in his eyes.
im ageing myself,but i remember watching Sir Stanley play for Toronto City at varsity,he was like 45 at the time,

[Red CB Toronto]

I still remember a lot of Blizzard stuff. Thunderfoot. Jomo and Ace Not-So-Long-Ago. I wanted TFC to be named the Blizzard...

I remember going to a few Toronto Blizard games in their last season of play, 1993 in the APSL. Always thought it would have been cool for TFCII to take over the Blizzard indentity, maybe a CPL team will one day. Seems the Blizzard right now are being run as a development program.

https://torontoblizzard.com

[ensco]

im ageing myself,but i remember watching Sir Stanley play for Toronto City at varsity,he was like 45 at the time,

OK that is a serious credential. You need a pic of the Magician as your avatar or something.

You must be the only person in these parts to have seen The Magician live.

[Phil744]

RT @KristianRDyer: Hearing that former #USMNT defender Steve Cherundulo has talked with #TFC about their head coach opening. Some buzz that…

[OgtheDim]

im ageing myself,but i remember watching Sir Stanley play for Toronto City at varsity,he was like 45 at the time,



Wow.....

Can somebody find his ghost - need a bit of craft on the wing like he was.

[Phil744]

Everything that we have heard suggests the #TFCLive job is going to go to Patrick Vieira -- an offer is out.

I wouldn't read much into there not being an announcement yet. They'll want someone in place before the draft, likely (Jan 21). Still some time.

[Auzzy]

Everything that we have heard suggests the #TFCLive job is going to go to Patrick Vieira -- an offer is out.

I wouldn't read much into there not being an announcement yet. They'll want someone in place before the draft, likely (Jan 21). Still some time.

The draft is pretty meaningless these days. Why are they using that as their deadline?

[Kamp Berg]

The draft is pretty meaningless these days. Why are they using that as their deadline?

Afaik, the deadline comment came from Duane Rollins, not TFC.

[noxx98]

The comment from Duane seems a lot more definitive than I think it may be. He says "we have heard" - does that mean news that has been made public or news that he's hearing from sources? From public information I don't think its clear that Viera is the choice here. Just yesterday we were hearing about Cherundulo.

[Kamp Berg]

Why does it seem like we are the only team not making any moves 😢

[MikeForbes]

Why does it seem like we are the only team not making any moves 😢

Ali Curtis is hard at work trying to get signings in. Expect an announcement on our new DP by September.

[reggie]

not until they hire the new manager,i doubt we sign anybody,the good news is ali has 6 to 8 more interviews with all the candidates

[bought with blo]

Just curious where the sentiment that Ali Curtis can't be trusted to tie his own shoes, let alone run a soccer club comes from?

[reggie]

i think Ali is a smart guy,but he is so slow and boring,maybe that is a good thing,we shall see,we jus want some news.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I do no expect any official move (announcement) from TFC on the player signing front until Monday, February 1.
I hope I'm wrong.
(But if nothing happended until, and on 1st or 2nd, then it's a big "f@ck off" from me to TFC management, in front with Ali.)

[Bushmancan]

Just curious where the sentiment that Ali Curtis can't be trusted to tie his own shoes, let alone run a soccer club comes from?

In my opinion, fair or unfair, he doesn't get any credit for winning the shield at NYRB or growing their academy. He is more associated with their lack of spending and decline over the past couple of years.

[OgtheDim]

Funny thing is, Curtis left NYRB almost 4 years ago.

**************

On another note, Jozy called into USMNT camp.

[bought with blo]

In my opinion, fair or unfair, he doesn't get any credit for winning the shield at NYRB or growing their academy. He is more associated with their lack of spending and decline over the past couple of years.

Why is the GM responsible for spending levels?
Isn't the owners job to set the budget?
The GM simply executes their vision as best as they can within the budget.
What has Ali done or not done in his time with Toronto to earn the level of scorn heaped upon him here?
Especially since this attitude shows up most strongly here on this forum. In other media and on other TFC sites Ali seems to have a better reputation.
Just curious what fuels the haters hate.

[Kamp Berg]

Why is the GM responsible for spending levels?
Isn't the owners job to set the budget?
The GM simply executes their vision as best as they can within the budget.
What has Ali done or not done in his time with Toronto to earn the level of scorn heaped upon him here?
Especially since this attitude shows up most strongly here on this forum. In other media and on other TFC sites Ali seems to have a better reputation.
Just curious what fuels the haters hate.

What he says doesn’t seem to match what he does.

[MightyDM]

Why is the GM responsible for spending levels?
Isn't the owners job to set the budget?
The GM simply executes their vision as best as they can within the budget.
What has Ali done or not done in his time with Toronto to earn the level of scorn heaped upon him here?
Especially since this attitude shows up most strongly here on this forum. In other media and on other TFC sites Ali seems to have a better reputation.
Just curious what fuels the haters hate.


I don't think it is hate. It's more like people are skeptical - what have you done for us anyway? He unfortunately tends to overpromise and under deliver, which doesn't help. But it's not much different to how Bez was treated at the beginning - if anything the posts about Bez were more scathing. Curtis has the chance to earn the loyalty and support of most on this forum if he shows good judgement and progress but the jury is out for many so far.

[bought with blo]

What he says doesn’t seem to match what he does.

What lies has he told us? I must have missed some major doozies.
Saying you're going to sign a player and failing, is not lying. Saying something will happen within a certain time frame, and not having that thing happen is not necessarily a lie.
There is a difference between being dishonest and being wrong.

Is the general feeling that he is incompetent? A liar? Or both?

[ag futbol]

Why is the GM responsible for spending levels?

I’ve worked with senior leaders before and some are very good at selling their investors / superiors / funding source on projects for a $1, but have a really grand vision for $5. Which is over budget at $6 but who cares cause you’re getting this great shiny thing you really wanted and it’s only another $3 away from completion.

A good manager knows how to argue for more money, at the margin. It won’t turn VWFC into TFC, but it gets you a little extra scratch when you need it. Unless you’re Leiweke, then you just open the safe and have at it.

Ali Curtis on the other hand strikes me as a guy who prides himself on coming in under budget.

[MightyDM]

What lies has he told us? I must have missed some major doozies.
Saying you're going to sign a player and failing, is not lying. Saying something will happen within a certain time frame, and not having that thing happen is not necessarily a lie.
There is a difference between being dishonest and being wrong.

Is the general feeling that he is incompetent? A liar? Or both?

Neither. Over promises as you point out, which leads to skepticism about his competence. if he can deliver a strong pipeline from the academy, i am all in favour. But jury is out on that.

[Kamp Berg]

Neither. Over promises as you point out, which leads to skepticism about his competence. if he can deliver a strong pipeline from the academy, i am all in favour. But jury is out on that.

I agree, hard to have much confidence in someone who talks a lot but doesn’t seem to produce much. Doesn’t mean he’s a liar or horrible, just hard to believe him.

[Richard]

Once Leiweke left MLSE, TFC has slowly reverted back to the old teachers pension fund days. No excitement whatsoever with this club anymore.

I guess we will be dinning on that roof, pitch, and cup win he gave us for the next 10 years

[noxx98]

Marky has been posting some Instagram stories recently discussing/showing his recovery. I think his injury at the end of the season was a lot more serious than we/I thought it was.

[noxx98]

Once Leiweke left MLSE, TFC has slowly reverted back to the old teachers pension fund days. No excitement whatsoever with this club anymore.

I guess we will be dinning on that roof, pitch, and cup win he gave us for the next 10 years
We have the reigning MLS MVP on our team, one of the highest paid Canadians in the world, convinced our team captain to drop from a DP to a TAM slot, and beginning to integrate some up and coming young players with great ceilings (Akinola, Nelson, Rutty, Priso). It's fair to say we aren't at the same level as our Leiweke days, but the sky is falling rhetoric is overkill.

[ag futbol]

Marky has been posting some Instagram stories recently discussing/showing his recovery. I think his injury at the end of the season was a lot more serious than we/I thought it was.
Well the good news is Vanney is taking our strength and conditioning coach with him to LA.

[OgtheDim]

Well the good news is Vanney is taking our strength and conditioning coach with him to LA.

Tom Williams has left TFC?

[reggie]

Tom Williams has left TFC?
maybe the sports science guy Listen,he is close to Vanney

[Phil744]

RT @KristianRDyer: While it is true that #TFC spoke with Patrick Vieira, I'm being told right now that he is not a candidate for the open p…

[OgtheDim]

Has anybody heard ANYTHING about coaches leaving with Vanney? I woulda thought Dan Calichman would go with Vanney. BTW, the TFC website doesn't seem to have updated coaches bios since 2015.

[noxx98]

Dan Calichman and Jim Liston (director of sport science) are both joining LAG. https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls/greg-vanney-galaxy-coach-1.5862320

[Phil744]

RT @KevLaramee: I can confirm that a contract offer has been sent to Patrick Vieira by #TFClive for the vacant TFC manager position.

[Auzzy]

Well the good news is Vanney is taking our strength and conditioning coach with him to LA.


Dan Calichman and Jim Liston (director of sport science) are both joining LAG. https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls/greg-vanney-galaxy-coach-1.5862320

Although that would make sense, and may still happen, that's not actually what the CBC article says. It just mentions there are connections, but I don't believe there's any confirmation of the other moves yet. Unless one of you have heard from other sources:


The Galaxy said Vanney's coaching staff will be announced at a later date. It's likely they will include some familiar faces for Toronto fans.

TFC assistant coach Dan Calichman is a former Galaxy captain while Jim Liston, Toronto's director of sport science, served as L.A.'s strength and conditioning coach.

Vanney played at UCLA with Nick Theslof, another TFC assistant coach. The two also worked together at Chivas USA where Vanney was an assistant coach and technical director of the youth academy prior to joining Toronto in 2013 as academy director and assistant GM.

[Auzzy]

This should probably all go in the "Vanney steps down" thread, but anyway...

This is gold, from TFC's media guy:

https://twitter.com/Eric_Giacometti/status/1346616139141545985

[Richard]

Although that would make sense, and may still happen, that's not actually what the CBC article says. It just mentions there are connections, but I don't believe there's any confirmation of the other moves yet. Unless one of you have heard from other sources:

Confirmed in an LA times article.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/story/2021-01-05/galaxy-hire-greg-vanney-coach-rebuilding


Vanney, who said Monday was his first day in his new office at Dignity Health Sports Park, isn’t coming back alone. Dan Calichman — who played beside Fraser and Vanney on that first Galaxy back line, then spent parts of seven seasons as an assistant in Toronto — will join the staff in Carson, as will Jim Liston, Toronto’s director of sports science and a former strength and conditioning coach with the Galaxy and Chivas USA

[Phil744]

@KristianJack
Sources: Patrick Vieira is not under consideration to be Toronto FC head coach. Contrary to other reports the Frenchman has not been offered a contract to coach the club. The club have narrowed their search to a shortlist & will be looking to offer a contract soon. #TFCLive

[Auzzy]

Confirmed in an LA times article.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/story/2021-01-05/galaxy-hire-greg-vanney-coach-rebuilding

OK thanks for confirming.

[portu]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Viera was offered and rejected it and now they’re covering their asses.

[DavemTFC]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Viera was offered and rejected it and now they’re covering their asses.
I have a feeling this is what happened too. Either that or Rollins/Laramee were just wrong

[ag futbol]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Viera was offered and rejected it and now they’re covering their asses.
Seems to be some suggestion that might be the case as both “ Vieira offer out” sources are suggesting he may not have accepted.

[DavemTFC]

Why is the GM responsible for spending levels?
Isn't the owners job to set the budget?
The GM simply executes their vision as best as they can within the budget.
What has Ali done or not done in his time with Toronto to earn the level of scorn heaped upon him here?
Especially since this attitude shows up most strongly here on this forum. In other media and on other TFC sites Ali seems to have a better reputation.
Just curious what fuels the haters hate.

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few weeks, and most of this is really just based off my view on the outside looking in on the TFC FO so take it with a handful of salt. Personally, I think it all comes back to Ali coming across as REALLY unlikeable to anyone who's watched/listened to him speak, at least for me.

There's an all for one episode from I think 2019 on him that looks at his life and career leading up to the TFC hire and Curtis spends the whole time talking as if it were a job interview. I know he's got extensive corporate experience, but even then I don't think I've heard anyone in speak in such a...corporate-y (?) way as him. Hell it's been a while since I was in any office setting now and I've never worked in the areas Curtis has worked in but it's always seemed to me the top businessmen know how to speak business without sounding corporate, and I never ever get that from Ali. And to be clear I only bring the all for one episode up because it made me realize he ALWAYS sounds that way and it points to why I think so many of us on the outside have a hard time trusting him - he just comes across as completely inauthentic.

And the inauthenticity makes it tough to imagine him negotiating with Genk/Vanney/whoever else (not to mention dealing with Marsch) and is compounded when he says "2 weeks" and nothing happens for months, though the 2 weeks thing is definitely not something known as well overall as it is on this board.

It's also not just our fans who don't like him. The Petke firing and the townhall Curtis hosted that followed was such an extensive and fiery shitshow that NYRB fans never seemed to forgive him despite hindsight showing that this was clearly the right move. It feels like a no-brainer now, but at the time Marsch was three years removed from his only coaching experience (a year with an Impact team that made the playoffs after he left) and Petke was (still is) a fan favourite. But I don't think Petke (or virtually anyone in MLS) would have had a chance at the shield with that first post-Henry-era team, so obviously he made the right move. It's also worth noting that a lot of the success of that 2015 team came from signing new players (Kljestan, Kemar Lawrence, Mike Grella) that became the backbone of the team for the next half decade (unsure how many of those signings were Curtis or the RB scouting network but still). And people blaming him for NYRB getting cheaper is ridiculous - they were always going to get cheaper. NYRB in 2015 had just lost one of if not the most celebrated player in the league's history and were now fighting an expansion Man City owned team for the NYC market. It shouldn't be surprising New Jersey has since gone in on building from the academy and young signings and selling them for profit - which is the exact model the other Red Bull owned teams use, albeit a larger scale - versus buying big names like they used to do and like City were now doing. I think it's understood Red Bull hired Curtis because they thought he'd fit their new identity moving forward but they're clearly the ones who spearheaded that identity change, not Curtis.

I'm getting off topic now but my point is I get the feeling Curtis, though the jury is still out on him, is far more competent than he's spoken of here. NYRB were successful with Curtis at the helm, and at least some of that had to have been thanks to him specifically. I think a lot of the criticism of him stems less from what he's done as much as from how he's done it. And I also think people are most worried about his communication skills, which are especially important with big signings, but that's probably come with criticism of other areas which aren't necessarily fair to him.

Moving forward I'm still interested to see if he can improve how TFC's young players are integrated into and developed within the first team based off of how well academy and NYRB2 players have fared in the last half decade.

[Areathrasher]

The young DP thing is still slated to start this season per the athletic


"The terms of the deal would also keep in place plans for an under-22 player initiative set to begin in the 2021 season, the source said. That new discretionary spending category would allow teams to sign up to three players under the age of 22 with no limitations on acquisition costs, as long as the player’s salary is less than the maximum budget charge, which is set to be $612,500 in 2021. The under-22 initiative player signings would then be counted at a reduced budget charge similar to young designated players."

[MikeForbes]

With the U22 thing news, here is Toronto FC being linked to 20 year old Dominik Yankov.

https://twitter.com/futbolbulgaro/status/1346831762610130947?s=20

[reggie]

With the U22 thing news, here is Toronto FC being linked to 20 year old Dominik Yankov.

https://twitter.com/futbolbulgaro/status/1346831762610130947?s=20
young canadian winger/AM.probs a tam player,i dont get it,we seem to have a lot of guys like him already

[Ultra & Proud]

young canadian winger/AM.probs a tam player,i dont get it,we seem to have a lot of guys like him already
But not many as good probably. I would figure at worst he is an upgrade on Gallardo.

[langilleski]

I can't imagine this rumour to be real at this time. He signed a new deal in the fall, is like the youngest starting player at Ludogorets and they rate him quite high.

[ag futbol]

Ya I see this as a bit of a stretch. He’s highly rated and would seem to have plenty of opportunities in Europe.

Fully capped by Bulgaria too btw

[Bushmancan]

With the U22 thing news, here is Toronto FC being linked to 20 year old Dominik Yankov.

https://twitter.com/futbolbulgaro/status/1346831762610130947?s=20


Translation - Toronto FC🇨🇦 would be interested in midfielder Dominik Yankov🇧🇬. Let us remember that Dominik was born in Toronto and has Canadian nationality. In addition, the Canadian federation tried to get him to accept the offer to play for the Canadian team.

[Red CB Toronto]

Translation - Toronto FC would be interested in midfielder Dominik Yankov. Let us remember that Dominik was born in Toronto and has Canadian nationality. In addition, the Canadian federation tried to get him to accept the offer to play for the Canadian team.

I believe both TFC II and former Red Chris Pozniak and Marco Reda both coached at Power Soccer, the Academy where Dominik played before moving overseas.

[mowe]

Report: Toronto FC linked with French defender Loïck Landrehttps://www.wakingthered.com/2021/1/9/22222142/report-toronto-fc-linked-with-french-defender-loick-landre

[Oldtimer]

Report: Toronto FC linked with French defender Loïck Landre

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/1/9/22222142/report-toronto-fc-linked-with-french-defender-loick-landre

Looks like a huge upgrade on Zavaleta.

[ag futbol]

Looks like a huge upgrade on Zavaleta.
I feel he’d have to play a bigger role than Zavaleta does. Otherwise, not sure what’s in it for him in coming to TFC? He looks like an everyday starter in League Un.

He is also right footed. Could Omar Gonzalez be on his way to LA with Vanney?

[OgtheDim]

That's more like it - younger, would push Omar.

[Yohan]

Chris Mavinga would know him from their youth academy days at PSG

Omar becomes tradeable only if TFC signs another starter calibre CB

[Areathrasher]

Interesting. Very interesting.

[ensco]

I feel he’d have to play a bigger role than Zavaleta does. Otherwise, not sure what’s in it for him in coming to TFC? He looks like an everyday starter in League Un.

He is also right footed. Could Omar Gonzalez be on his way to LA with Vanney?

I was going to type this, then I saw you said it already!

Omar should be in LA, he is a massively wasted marketing asset in Toronto. The guy won championships there and in Mexico, and really, nobody here cares.

I think MLS' allocation rules around guys who return are too “one size fits all” and generally suck. If Seba comes back for a swan song here, which I think he should, I am not going to enjoy the allocation order bs that will go with that.

[rydermike]

I was going to type this, then I saw you said it already!

Omar should be in LA, he is a massively wasted marketing asset in Toronto. The guy won championships there and in Mexico, and really, nobody here cares.

I think MLS' allocation rules around guys who return are too “one size fits all” and generally suck. If Seba comes back for a swan song here, which I think he should, I am not going to enjoy the allocation order bs that will go with that.

I think Omar came here mainly because of Bradley and Jozy. Kind of like how Bradley recruited Jozy.

[Mikmacdo]

Chris Mavinga would know him from their youth academy days at PSG

Omar becomes tradeable only if TFC signs another starter calibre CB
I would hang onto Omar for one more year. It sounds like this guy would be coming in July so give him half a season to adapt before trading Omar to L.A.

[TFC1154ever]

If you can get rid of him for anything, I would, and find yourself another good CB. If not, that’s fine. Gives you the option to run 3 in the back, or have a decent CB to come off the bench. Long season, injuries, champions league, Canadian Cup. You need at least 4 CN that you can trust.

[noxx98]

I think we have Omar for one more season and then a club option after that. I don’t think we’d get much by trading him, other than freeing up some TAM space. I hardly think Omar is the primary issue with this team, although adding CB depth will be important. TFC was pretty strong last season in goals against. After we moved stateside, the only game we allowed more than two goals was against Philly. The issue I saw with the team was the ability to score goals.

I get some Kantari vibes from Landre. Bounced around between Ligue 1/2, same age. Granted I have not watched him play at all. I’d rather target someone similar to Mavinga. When we brought him over he was 25 and still had room to grow.

[ag futbol]

I wouldn’t suggest Omar is the primary issue either and I think a trade would be more a function of player preference than a desire to push him out.

BUT

I don’t think he’s particularly top value for his pay packet and he’s certainly not getting any faster with age. So, if a team made me an offer and Omar wanted to go, I’d be inclined to listen.

[OgtheDim]

You need 3 decent CBs to be successful now in this league. That is why Ciman was hired - to be that 3rd guy. When I said push Gonazalez, I meant push him to stay as the #2.

[jloome]

MLS allocation list says Victor Vasquez is currently without a club.

Seems a no brainer if he's on a TAM or regular deal.

[Ultra & Proud]

MLS allocation list says Victor Vasquez is currently without a club.

Seems a no brainer if he's on a TAM or regular deal.
I think he's finished. He couldn't make an impact on trash teams in garbage leagues. I think age got him. Time to get younger,faster and forget about 2017 nostalgia.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/JozyAltidore/status/1348758442186575872

eyes emoji

[James17930]

MLS allocation list says Victor Vasquez is currently without a club.

Seems a no brainer if he's on a TAM or regular deal.

I think at this point we should hire him as the coach.

[rydermike]

MLS allocation list says Victor Vasquez is currently without a club.

Seems a no brainer if he's on a TAM or regular deal.
Yeah, he left Eupen a couple months ago. However, he has to go through the allocation list, where we are near the bottom. We'd have to make a trade to get him

[portu]

https://twitter.com/JozyAltidore/status/1348758442186575872

eyes emoji
Between Jozy and Ozil we’d have two of the laziest guys in the league

[Ultra & Proud]

Between Jozy and Ozil we’d have two of the laziest guys in the league

Jozy so lazy that 90% of his Tweets are single emojiis.

[portu]

Michael Barrios just moved to Colorado for a fucking song. Can the front office please sort their shit. That’s the kind of winger we could of used.

[ag futbol]

That is an insanely cheap price.

Guy is on $500k a year and is hands down one of the most underrated players in MLS. Mainly causes he played in the wrong market.

Why can’t we make moves like these?

[Kamp Berg]

That is an insanely cheap price.

Guy is on $500k a year and is hands down one of the most underrated players in MLS. Mainly causes he played in the wrong market.

Why can’t we make moves like these?

Now that Ali hired his buddy is the next step to bring in a bunch of NYRB retreads? I hope not but my I have absolutely no faith left, especially watching what Bez is building in Columbus with way less resources at hand.

[bought with blo]

Now that Ali hired his buddy is the next step to bring in a bunch of NYRB retreads? I hope not but my I have absolutely no faith left, especially watching what Bez is building in Columbus with way less resources at hand.

It is interesting that people feel Columbus is still a small budget team with their new owners. Despite their first transfer being like 10 million dollars. Zeleryan was not cheap. They are paying money now.

[MikeForbes]

Curtis and Manning should be having a presser in the coming days to announce Armas. We should get a completely meaningless update on our DP search at that time.

[Ultra & Proud]

Michael Barrios just moved to Colorado for a fucking song. Can the front office please sort their shit. That’s the kind of winger we could of used.
Assuming we use a system that needs wingers.

[Ultra & Proud]

Now that Ali hired his buddy is the next step to bring in a bunch of NYRB retreads?

I don't think that will happen but if I were to guess the worst case scenario, it would be that they'd graduate more players from the academy, maybe sign a CPL player or two, and recall Dunn & Romero from loan then use the young guys a lot. Trial by fire style and it'd be U-G-L-Y.

[OgtheDim]

So now we have Armas, time to look at the current players we have and maybe do a spec thing on whether they fit a quicker tempo (I'm not talking about a press here - just quick incisive ball movement)


GK

Westberg - yes, good quick distributor of the ball
Bono - not accurate with distribution
Silva - unknown


Defenders

Auro - nope, thinks too much and the slowest throw in taker in the league
Dunn - unknown
Gonzalez - no speed but can make an incisive pass, does not doddle on the ball
Mavinga - has speed but not great passer, needs people to make movements
Laryea - yup, likes to move it fast and go
Romeo - unknown

Midfielders

Bradley - if forced to can move the ball quickly but wants to make the better pass rather then the quick one
Osorio - yes, on toast - always likes to move the ball, always looking for an outlet and always looking to be the outlet, can find a path through if nothing provided
Delgado - same but needs an outlet more then Osorio
Dorsey - unknown
Endoh - wants to move quickly but not all that fast or accurate and can't seem to find space
Fraser - not incisive in his off the ball movements but can make the quick pass if gets into a rhthym
Pozuelo - quick tempo, yes, but needs to be given outlets, best midfielder in the league when ball moves a lot
Marshal Rutty - less unknown then others with a tendency to want to move quick and find space but sooooooooo raw
Okello - unknown
Priso - a younger Osorio, so far
Shaffleberg - doesn't find spaces enough


Forwards


Jozy - can come back and play the quick passing game (was doing that in NYRB last season) - needs motivation to play quick balls in front of net
Achara - maybe but coming back from ACL & MCL
Akinola - yes but tends to play off the shoulder and be an outlet rather then come back
Mullins - 2014 MLS doesn't do quick - like him but not a quick guy
Nelson - unknown
Perruzza - unknown


******************

Players that have to change their style to play quicker

Auro, Bradley, Fraser, Shaff, Mullins, Jozy, Bono


I expect a few of those to not be around by mid season.

[portu]

Hiring Armas flies in the face of a strategy that involves starting both Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore. Going to be a interesting year.

[Mikmacdo]

I wonder if we look at bringing in Bruma again. He has played in the red bull system and is a free agent this summer.

[Omar]

Now that Ali hired his buddy is the next step to bring in a bunch of NYRB retreads? I hope not but my I have absolutely no faith left, especially watching what Bez is building in Columbus with way less resources at hand.

Ali Curtis is finally starting to impose himself in TFC after Vanney was let go of. We're now going to move away from the win-now-at-all-costs approach and start building for the future. Expect more young/academy players to be integrated into the team as well as the club looking for younger replacements for Jozy, Bradley, and Omar if they aren't in the club. Armas is coming in merely as a head coach and not as a manager, so the majority of the squad building will be on Curtis and Manning.

In contrast, Bezbatchenko, whilst he's great, is more of a win-now guy, and we've yet to see him rebuild a team once they've gone as far as they could. Maybe if he spends more time with Columbus, we could see that. Curtis, though, has come into rebuild TFC's squad and help us move on from our current spine. Let's see how he good he really is at finding talented young players now that he doesn't have Red Bull's network to rely on.

[Kamp Berg]

Ali Curtis is finally starting to impose himself in TFC after Vanney was let go of. We're now going to move away from the win-now-at-all-costs approach and start building for the future. Expect more young/academy players to be integrated into the team as well as the club looking for younger replacements for Jozy, Bradley, and Omar if they aren't in the club. Armas is coming in merely as a head coach and not as a manager, so the majority of the squad building will be on Curtis and Manning.

In contrast, Bezbatchenko, whilst he's great, is more of a win-now guy, and we've yet to see him rebuild a team once they've gone as far as they could. Maybe if he spends more time with Columbus, we could see that. Curtis, though, has come into rebuild TFC's squad and help us move on from our current spine. Let's see how he good he really is at finding talented young players now that he doesn't have Red Bull's network to rely on.

I completely agree with your viewpoint, but I don’t think it applies to TFC. Toronto always touts itself as a ‘big team’ (especially Curtis) that can always compete for trophies. In order to do that there can’t be rebuild years. The core was already built when Curtis came, he just needed to fill holes as they appeared. Sometimes the holes were small, some big, but his job is to fill them. He just didn’t, to the point where the players and Vanney were publicly talking about it. Luckily the core was so good that it’s kind of held up since 2017. Imagine where we be if Curtis had filled the holes that appeared, the dynasty talk could have become a reality, at least for a few years.
As far as the academy goes, if resources are so good at TFC, why can’t they do both? It’s not like it’s an impossible mission. Maybe Curtis would have been a great academy director, but he does not appear to know how to run a ‘big club’. Makes it pretty hard to have faith in any of his choices.
And before someone mentions Pozuelo as proof positive of Curtis, it was mentioned several times when Pozuelo came that he was on TFC’s radar for a long time.

[ag futbol]

I don't think that will happen but if I were to guess the worst case scenario, it would be that they'd graduate more players from the academy, maybe sign a CPL player or two, and recall Dunn & Romero from loan then use the young guys a lot. Trial by fire style and it'd be U-G-L-Y.
I will say this. Curtis and Armas, from my observation, seem to better understand how to bring through young players than Vanney and company did.

Our mentality previously was short leash or get the hook. Win now, this season, this next game, right away. And there would be no major adjustments on-field to ease the new guy in. Do your job or back to the bench.

RBNY would make it easier. But as we all know, that’s sometimes at the price of points or even higher level success. If these guys improve enough, they want to move to Europe, not win an MLS Cup. And you can minimize a bit but not all the mistakes young players will make.

Not sure if it suits our market TBH. Admit this is a bit of a 180 for me on youth football but it’s really hard to win and develop at the same time.

[noxx98]

Not sure if I missed this somewhere, but Marky posted an Instagram story this morning at a California surgery center with the caption "Procedure". I know he was injured at the end of last season but I had not heard anything about him potentially needing surgery. Marky is far from the perfect player, but he was a critical part of last season's midfield.

[Kamp Berg]

‘Not sure if it suits our market TBH. Admit this is a bit of a 180 for me on youth football but it’s really hard to win and develop at the same time.’

^Couldn’t agree more.^
Toronto is a win-now city, always has been, in every sport. Not winning makes teams irrelevant here. Seems like more loans, like the big European clubs, is probably the best option for most of the young players looking to progress before they meet ‘trial by fire’.

[MikeForbes]

Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

From Kloke:
https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1349790004009168896?s=20

Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.

[MikeForbes]

Also, buried in today's presser is this news about Trabzonspor having interest in Ayo Akinola.

https://twitter.com/turkishsoccer/status/1349780979574042628?s=20

[reggie]

Also, buried in today's presser is this news about Trabzonspor having interest in Ayo Akinola.

https://twitter.com/turkishsoccer/status/1349780979574042628?s=20
i gather he is a free agent next dec?

[notthesun]

i gather he is a free agent next dec?

We picked up his option in our end season roster moves, so yes, he should be out of a contract at the end of the 2021 season.

Signing Akinola to an extension should be a top priority for Curtis. He needs to be on a new long-term contract so that he can be sold for maximum value, whenever we decide to sell.

[Kamp Berg]

Re: Piatti

https://twitter.com/24thminute/status/1349793388309213195?s=21

[Ultra & Proud]

So how long does Jozy last? Can't see him lasting long from everything I've heard.

[Omar]

I completely agree with your viewpoint, but I don’t think it applies to TFC. Toronto always touts itself as a ‘big team’ (especially Curtis) that can always compete for trophies. In order to do that there can’t be rebuild years. The core was already built when Curtis came, he just needed to fill holes as they appeared. Sometimes the holes were small, some big, but his job is to fill them. He just didn’t, to the point where the players and Vanney were publicly talking about it. Luckily the core was so good that it’s kind of held up since 2017. Imagine where we be if Curtis had filled the holes that appeared, the dynasty talk could have become a reality, at least for a few years.
As far as the academy goes, if resources are so good at TFC, why can’t they do both? It’s not like it’s an impossible mission. Maybe Curtis would have been a great academy director, but he does not appear to know how to run a ‘big club’. Makes it pretty hard to have faith in any of his choices.
And before someone mentions Pozuelo as proof positive of Curtis, it was mentioned several times when Pozuelo came that he was on TFC’s radar for a long time.

That's true, Toronto doesn't have the patience to wait for a good team to form. Having said that, NYRB under Curtis were quite competitive. In the 2015 season, they won the Supporters' Shield and made it to the conference finals despite losing the likes of Thierry Henry and Ambroise Oyongo. In 2016, they led the Eastern Conference and made it to the conference semi-finals with a team that mostly consisted of NYRB academy products.

Basically, if a gap can't be filled by a local product, they'll look elsewhere for good players (see the NYRB Felipe Martins trade with Montreal Impact and Gonzalo Veron). With Vanney (and Bez), we were typically looking outside the club to plug the gaps. If there's a good local product who can take over the first team, then we'll bring them in instead. This started to happen last season with Ayo Akinola, Liam Fraser, and Ralph Priso. Don't be surprised if we replace both Jozy and Bradley with TFC academy products in the near future whilst looking elsewhere for a new CB (personally, I don't rate Romeo and Dunn as highly as I used to).

In short, our win-now approach will incorporate our academy products and finally make the academy a source of talent for the first team. Beyond that, we'll still spend money when it's warranted, but we won't necessarily be targeting the big-money signings if there's another player who can offer as much for less.

[Kamp Berg]

That's true, Toronto doesn't have the patience to wait for a good team to form. Having said that, NYRB under Curtis were quite competitive. In the 2015 season, they won the Supporters' Shield and made it to the conference finals despite losing the likes of Thierry Henry and Ambroise Oyongo. In 2016, they led the Eastern Conference and made it to the conference semi-finals with a team that mostly consisted of NYRB academy products.

Basically, if a gap can't be filled by a local product, they'll look elsewhere for good players (see the NYRB Felipe Martins trade with Montreal Impact and Gonzalo Veron). With Vanney (and Bez), we were typically looking outside the club to plug the gaps. If there's a good local product who can take over the first team, then we'll bring them in instead. This started to happen last season with Ayo Akinola, Liam Fraser, and Ralph Priso. Don't be surprised if we replace both Jozy and Bradley with TFC academy products in the near future whilst looking elsewhere for a new CB (personally, I don't rate Romeo and Dunn as highly as I used to).

In short, our win-now approach will incorporate our academy products and finally make the academy a source of talent for the first team. Beyond that, we'll still spend money when it's warranted, but we won't necessarily be targeting the big-money signings if there's another player who can offer as much for less.

I understand the concept and I’m sure that’s what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything you’ve said, but it’s not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived it’s been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still won’t command attention in this city without being a truly big club.

[Areathrasher]

PSV are apparently letting US youth international LB Chris Gloster find a new team in January.

PSV poached him from the NYRB academy.

Given the positional need, Armas and Curtis...maybe one to keep an eye on.

[OgtheDim]

Jacks discussion about Armas today once again mentionned "whether that is a #9 and they do something with Jozy Altidore"

Something is being discussed there.

[Auzzy]

Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

From Kloke:
https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1349790004009168896?s=20

Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.

Since nobody else mentioned it yet, I'll do the honors...

So in about 2 weeks then? ;)

[MightyDM]

Curtis and Manning should be having a presser in the coming days to announce Armas. We should get a completely meaningless update on our DP search at that time.


Two weeks.

[MightyDM]

Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

From Kloke:
https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1349790004009168896?s=20



Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.

Two weeks.

[MightyDM]

We picked up his option in our end season roster moves, so yes, he should be out of a contract at the end of the 2021 season.

Signing Akinola to an extension should be a top priority for Curtis. He needs to be on a new long-term contract so that he can be sold for maximum value, whenever we decide to sell.

It would fit a pattern if he leaves because we didn't negotiate the contract renewal early enough,

[MightyDM]

I understand the concept and I’m sure that’s what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything you’ve said, but it’s not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived it’s been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still won’t command attention in this city without being a truly big club.

Having watched the Jays build from 85 to the world series, and TFC from what it was to perennial finalists, its clear to me that you have to overpay to win. We could have got someone ALMOST Seba for 2 million or so. But to win, we needed Seba. Same with the Jays, and what ahppened to them after is illustriative.

I have no problem with yout and searching out value, but you also need three great players arguably we had four in 2017 - and right now we have one (Poz) two if Jozy can come back. to get a third is $$$$ - the difference between Seba and Piatti.

[MightyDM]

Jacks discussion about Armas today once again mentionned "whether that is a #9 and they do something with Jozy Altidore"

Something is being discussed there.

Smoke and fire.

Jozy has been brilliant for us. Struggled last year but last year is a pass for me. If he goes to a place he wants happy fo him but we should be careful what we wish for. Goal scorers are hard to come by. Very hard indeed.

[DavemTFC]

No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.

[Bushmancan]

No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.

I bet he gets a shot, Vanney didn't like him. Based on his results to date I would agree and I do think he was highly suspect in his play but I have seen more than one player rise from ashes with a new coach. Don't forget there could be some Ali proving Vanney wrong mentality running here.

I really want to see if Achara recovers and can deliver, there was something about his movement off the ball that I really liked but again we saw him for 3 games...uggh

[Ultra & Proud]

No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.

No way, come on.

The 40 players we traded for in that one Winter year were worse. Like Andy Iro for instance. Or Acevedo. You can never question the horribleness of what our first decade was. That will be hard to match for anyone although Cinci is trying hard.

[ag futbol]

No way, come on.

The 40 players we traded for in that one Winter year were worse. Like Andy Iro for instance. Or Acevedo. You can never question the horribleness of what our first decade was. That will be hard to match for anyone although Cinci is trying hard.
But isn’t that sort of sense of a bad signing heightened by the under performance of a group of collective players? Gallardo is saved by the fact the rest of the team is good.

Other players were absolutely worse but that was a different era in MLS and many were on minimal pay packets. We paid decent money for Gallardo and got nothing.

This would be an interesting thread but for me he’s definitely top 10.

[Ultra & Proud]

But isn’t that sort of sense of a bad signing heightened by the under performance of a group of collective players? Gallardo is saved by the fact the rest of the team is good.

Other players were absolutely worse but that was a different era in MLS and many were on minimal pay packets. We paid decent money for Gallardo and got nothing.

This would be an interesting thread but for me he’s definitely top 10.

I hope in a way he sticks around in 2021 just to see if he was never good because he was never given a legit shot by Vanney or if he never deserved a shot based on skill & training. Besides if we have one buyout it should be earmarked for Jozy.

[ensco]

There are literally hundreds of guys who came into MLS on $200K or whatever and sucked. So many guys like Pablo Voti and Ahmed Kantari.

Gallardo stands alone when you consider comp and term and transfer fee. Mista and VdW are in the conversation.

Much smaller list of total washouts at $1.5M or whatever. Nobody will ever come close to NYCFC completely wasting $24M for Pirlo in a wheelchair in this category, but Gallardo is, sadly, kind of up there.

[ag futbol]

^ My sort of gut feeling (pure speculation) on that one is he has personal issues that are at least partially holding him back. Bust is a bust but you sort of get the sense based on how they treat him that everyone is sympathetic.

[Omar]

I understand the concept and I’m sure that’s what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything you’ve said, but it’s not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived it’s been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still won’t command attention in this city without being a truly big club.

I'm on the same boat as you. I'm worried about the uncertainty in TFC and the lack of transparency in its direction. We're just going to have to brace ourselves for a different approach to strengthening the squad now.

Ultimately, it's the big names and the top-tier players who are key to winning MLS Cups. You need that extra bit of quality to overcome any and all opposition in knockout tournaments, whilst consistently good quality matters more for the Supporters' Shield. Given what I've seen of NYRB, Curtis can contribute to building solid, consistent sides, but can he contribute to building an MLS-Cup winning side? That remains to be seen.

Personally speaking, I enjoy seeing our academy products come through, so I'm looking forward to that for next season.

[Mikmacdo]

There are literally hundreds of guys who came into MLS on $200K or whatever and sucked. So many guys like Pablo Voti and Ahmed Kantari.

Gallardo stands alone when you consider comp and term and transfer fee. Mista and VdW are in the conversation.

Much smaller list of total washouts at $1.5M or whatever. Nobody will ever come close to NYCFC completely wasting $24M for Pirlo in a wheelchair in this category, but Gallardo is, sadly, kind of up there.

Gallardo is definitely one of the worst signings. Look up his stats in Venezuela which is a horrible league 9/10 in South America. He wasn't even that good down there. Valour just signed a player with better stats from Venezuela.

[OgtheDim]

Jason Bent off to LAG with Vanney

:prrr:

Ali going with his own guys finally.

Wonder if there will be any institutional memory among the coaching staff.

[ag futbol]

Jason Bent off to LAG with Vanney

:prrr:

Ali going with his own guys finally.

Wonder if there will be any institutional memory among the coaching staff.
Uggh, that’s a bit of a gut punch but honestly maybe this is what Jason Bent needs to be taken seriously as a coaching candidate rather than a career TFC company man and an assistant.

I wish him luck.

[barticusz]

I don't know much about Bent, but didn't TFC2 perform quite poorly when he was in charge? That could have also been due to it being boys vs men in USL.

[NK Toronto]

A lot of people here are blaming Manning and Curtis for a lack of any big name DP signings. But if you look back at when Defoe, Seba, Bradley, and Jozy where brought in it was during the Lieweke era, who was not only a soccer guy but also MLSE President. As a result he was in a position to authorize big budget signings. Manning is not. Since Lieweke left we haven't seen those types of contracts anymore, with the exception of Jozy's extension. Even Poz's contract was only for $4M per year. I don't think we are going to see any $6M per year contracts anytime soon, especially when the team is bleeding red ink given 2 whole seasons with no ticket sales.

None of us know the budget that Manning has been given to work with. It may be a lot smaller than most of us think. Building through the academy may be the only option.

[Yohan]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/15/report-toronto-fc-forward-ayo-akinola-attracting-interest-turkish-club?fbclid=IwAR07KbAOBVb416IWrdr5fOciVd_oa0AZ_Iba 2zB1pM-3JSFR2R2Wg3unagY

https://www.transfermarkt.us/trabzonspor-are-interested-in-ayo-akinola-toronto-fc-striker-a-free-agent-in-december/view/news/377794

Trabzonspor interested in Ayo Akinola

[PizzaEatingYeti]

A lot of people here are blaming Manning and Curtis for a lack of any big name DP signings. But if you look back at when Defoe, Seba, Bradley, and Jozy where brought in it was during the Lieweke era, who was not only a soccer guy but also MLSE President. As a result he was in a position to authorize big budget signings. Manning is not. Since Lieweke left we haven't seen those types of contracts anymore, with the exception of Jozy's extension. Even Poz's contract was only for $4M per year. I don't think we are going to see any $6M per year contracts anytime soon, especially when the team is bleeding red ink given 2 whole seasons with no ticket sales.

None of us know the budget that Manning has been given to work with. It may be a lot smaller than most of us think. Building through the academy may be the only option.

I totally agree with this post.
I'm afraid many years are coming when we'll not see any signing of any player who's is real worth on the market is more than about $3.5 million at the time of signing.
Anyways, any DP signing will be under Pozo's value.

And with this is coming the big question, like some posters already put it... is really TFC remaining a big MLS team, or will become a solid mid-MLS team in terms of spending on the roster.

[ag futbol]

I don’t think you can blame this on the board. I am sure there are other examples of teams in this league of teams owned under a larger sports conglomerate where things happen on time. We’ve never seen anything in the press about this.

In contrast, look at what we’ve seen reported about how Curtis and Manning do searches. Multiple interviews for each coaching candidate, triggering release clauses without the selling club’s notice, the mechanics are poor.

In my opinion, this is why everything is delayed. These guys have a flawed approach to searching for talent. It’s too much about details they believe matter to us, double and triple checking everything and not enough about making a deal and recognizing acquiring talent requires elements of both sales and negotiation.

[ensco]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/15/report-toronto-fc-forward-ayo-akinola-attracting-interest-turkish-club?fbclid=IwAR07KbAOBVb416IWrdr5fOciVd_oa0AZ_Iba 2zB1pM-3JSFR2R2Wg3unagY

https://www.transfermarkt.us/trabzonspor-are-interested-in-ayo-akinola-toronto-fc-striker-a-free-agent-in-december/view/news/377794

Trabzonspor interested in Ayo Akinola

After watching that documentary about Ayo, all I want is him to get paid so he can take care of his family. If he has to leave to do it, Godspeed Ayo!

[NK Toronto]

I totally agree with this post.
I'm afraid many years are coming when we'll not see any signing of any player who's is real worth on the market is more than about $3.5 million at the time of signing.
Anyways, any DP signing will be under Pozo's value.

And with this is coming the big question, like some posters already put it... is really TFC remaining a big MLS team, or will become a solid mid-MLS team in terms of spending on the roster.

I think we will remain in the upper quartile of MLS teams when it comes to spending, but I don't see us leading the league again. I also believe that the lack of broad based interest in the club is what is driving this decision.

[NK Toronto]

I don’t think you can blame this on the board. I am sure there are other examples of teams in this league of teams owned under a larger sports conglomerate where things happen on time. We’ve never seen anything in the press about this.

In contrast, look at what we’ve seen reported about how Curtis and Manning do searches. Multiple interviews for each coaching candidate, triggering release clauses without the selling club’s notice, the mechanics are poor.

In my opinion, this is why everything is delayed. These guys have a flawed approach to searching for talent. It’s too much about details they believe matter to us, double and triple checking everything and not enough about making a deal and recognizing acquiring talent requires elements of both sales and negotiation.

There were some significant TAM deals given out by Bez under Manning's watch which required buy-outs within a year, specifically Aketxe and VDW. I believe it is these types of deals that contributes to the overall caution exhibited. You can add Jozy's extension to the mix. Too many of these and the board starts looking for a new team president.

[portu]

Evaluating how this club is going to stack up in MLS spending going forward is a nuanced discussion. We're always going to be pushing around the top of the league. This club will likely always be competitive. It's not going to be allowed to slip towards true MLS mediocrity. MLSE understands this club needs to maintain certain standards, which is why Poz got signed when Seba left. But if Seba and Jozy left we wouldn't have gotten two Poz level signings because it's not necessary to win in this league and the ticket bump is marginal.

We are an Arsenal. A big club run relatively cost-effectively with title "ambitions" and a budget that's massive for a mid table team, but small relative to those ambitions. This club is no longer a "bloody big deal" it's a "relatively big deal".

Truthfully, I think most fans would be fine with spending near the top of the league but not at 2014-2015 levels if the club were explicit about it. The issue is publicly lowering expectations without looking like a bunch of losers. The FO has fucked this though. You can't go out there and say "Hey we're not doing the high roller thing anymore", but you can sure as hell not go out there and say "We're rolling in money" when your pockets are dead fucking empty. That's why all this frustration is exacerbated: Publicly set expectations and standards that are never met. Two weeks, Pozuelo debacle, VdW, Giovinco, Jozy's personal unrest and fan unrest at his re-signing, Vanney gone, Viera offered but not really offered, Armas signed. A lot of this has to do with the bold part of this paragraph.

If they won't lower our expectations for us than we should for ourselves. That way we aren't pissy about the next Armas, in this case our new DP, when it's so obviously staring us in the face.