Greg Vanney Support Poll

[gracos]

I asked this question last year but would like to see where us supporters sit on backing of Greg Vanney after this tough year

[NK Toronto]

I asked this question last year but would like to see where us supporters sit on backing of Greg Vanney after this tough year

I don't blame him for the early playoff elimination. Injuries and bad roster construction were the main culprits this season. Having said that if he left I wouldn't be that upset either. It may be time for a different voice.

[noimpactinmtl]

He has earned the right to decide whether to come back or not.

[FootBallAZ]

tbh- since the last game of the season - pulling endoh for altidore changed the pace and control of that game -combined that altidore started yesterday and endoh(his energy) was needed.

The fact he outsmarted himself and didnt play auro on the left and ricthie on the right- and that formation change the last 20 minutes killed - was ugly

[JoesphNdo]

Our biggest problem was very poor decisions made around the roster. Re-signing Jozy was woefully poor judgement, Piatti very questionable, and other decisions leaving us with an expensive/bloated but not all that impressive roster. If Vanney didn't have a hand in these decisions than he isn't the problem

[Ultra & Proud]

Our biggest problem was very poor decisions made around the roster. Re-signing Jozy was woefully poor judgement, Piatti very questionable, and other decisions leaving us with an expensive/bloated but not all that impressive roster. If Vanney didn't have a hand in these decisions than he isn't the problem
The roster was fine for the past few years and we benefited from the positives of continuity but that time is over. Time to refresh the roster.

The Jozy contract was 100% based on PR after Giovinco leaving and was a bad move. No way around that one. Piatti is a question because we were better with him on the pitch and it was his first (weird) season and sometimes it takes a season to get your feet wet in MLS. However, blowing what was then a TAM roster spot and the money that goes with it on Gallardo is probably the biggest waste. Having a different TAM level player that could actually make the starting XI or at least feature off the bench consistently might have been a game changer. Instead all that was wasted because Gallardo is a "nice guy" and other players like him.

[ag futbol]

I support Vanney. There are things I would like to see him do differently but we could certainly do a lot worse.

[glaze]

#vanneyout

[reggie]

i think curtis should be on the hot seat,no winger no back up striker,let vanney pick his own players.

[noxx98]

As long as Vanney wants to be back, he should be brought back. There's perhaps been tactical decisions that in hindsight he would do differently, but he's earned the right to come back and the positives far out weigh any of his negatives.

[Voodooman]

I think he deserves a crack with Curtis to revitilize the roster.

[MikeForbes]

Vanney should be the head coach of this team until he decides he doesn't want to be anymore. I assume someday he will become the USMNT coach.

[OgtheDim]

I support Vanney. There are things I would like to see him do differently but we could certainly do a lot worse.


This



Not sold on Ali Curtis

[jabbronies]

This

Not sold on Ali Curtis


Why's that? I thought the players brought in or helped sign during his time here were decent.

- Omar
- Piatti
- Pozuelo
- Laryea
- Westburg
- Achara
- Gallacher

He's been an advocate for developing players from within - we've seen a lot of young talent get minutes this year.

His biggest bust has been Gallardo. But aside from that - what else don't you like about him?

[OgtheDim]

Team crying out for speed & width as well as young CBs - gets none.

[ag futbol]

^ I would say our most important signings often reek of trying not to get it wrong rather than trying to get it 100% right.

We always seem to leave ourselves an out. The contact terms are flexible (Piatti, Benezet), player is familiar with MLS (Gonzalez or extensions for Altidore / Bradley), or financial commitments are minimal (Gallardo). If it goes wrong we can get out easy or point to it being unforeseeable an MLS experienced player is now bad (look at their past history!). The problem is you’re never going to get a star playing it that safe.

It’s like we say we want a Mercedes but because we “can’t quite find the right one” we drive a Ford, then a Mazda, and then a Toyota. Well, in the end, if you can’t make up your mind, what you’re choosing to do is drive a regular car rather than a luxury one.

That’s exactly what we have done in the FW spot for years, and we’re worse off for it.

[Ultra & Proud]

Team crying out for speed & width as well as young CBs - gets none.
No cap space because of some bad contracts and a fear to cut certain players and upset the dressing room is to blame for a lot of that. Speaking of that, Gallardo was supposed to supply that width we needed but obviously wansn't up to it. I'm not hanging that on Curtis either as he was new and they said when we signed him that they'd been tracking him for some time.

As for young CBs, they cost a lot of money and when you're dropping over $1M (amortized) on a bench guy who rarely leaves the bench then that's what happens. Hopefully that gets sorted and that money plus Omar's money can be used to refresh the back line for 2021.

[NK Toronto]

Vanney should be the head coach of this team until he decides he doesn't want to be anymore. I assume someday he will become the USMNT coach.

I don't think the USMNT job is all that. For the most part you play a handful of matches each year, and the fact of the matter is the U.S. is not producing high end talent. For an elite coach a gig in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe would be more desirable and probably pay better.

[NK Toronto]

The one thing that makes it difficult to assess Vanney is that no one knows how we would have fared with a different coach. During Vanney's tenure here he has had the privilege of coaching stars like MB, Jozy, Seba, VV and now Poz. He has had success, like in 2017, but there have also been failures, like losses in 3 of 4 Cup/CCL finals and the lousy 2018 season. If Bruce Arena were coach instead would we have won more? No one knows. As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Vanney until we see how he does with just an average roster. You could argue that this year was the weakest roster he had to work with since he was here and in my view 2020 has not been a success, based on our mediocre play throughout the season and our early play-off elimination. Remember we also only made the Voyageur's Cup because Montreal blew their last game against Vancouver. I am not anti Vanney by any means but I don't view him as a Messiah either.

[OgtheDim]

The one thing that makes it difficult to assess Vanney is that no one knows how we would have fared with a different coach. ..

Watch other MLS teams after awhile & you see the difference.

[Red CB Toronto]

I don't think the USMNT job is all that. For the most part you play a handful of matches each year, and the fact of the matter is the U.S. is not producing high end talent. For an elite coach a gig in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe would be more desirable and probably pay better.

The USMNT is seeing some real talent playing on the world stage now after some down years, moving forward this job will be attractive again especially heading towards 2022 and obviously 2026 on home soil.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnsbhqVXUAIMah7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[NK Toronto]

Watch other MLS teams after awhile & you see the difference.

Brian Schmetzer has won more cups and with arguably less talent. Not saying that he is a better coach but other than 2017 Vanney has won nothing. This is a results oriented business.

[NK Toronto]

The USMNT is seeing some real talent playing on the world stage now after some down years, moving forward this job will be attractive again especially heading towards 2022 and obviously 2026 on home soil.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnsbhqVXUAIMah7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Top coaches coach at the club level, not national teams, unless its France, Germany or someone similar. No internationally respected manager is going to coach the USMNT.

[OgtheDim]

Brian Schmetzer has won more cups and with arguably less talent. Not saying that he is a better coach but other than 2017 Vanney has won nothing. This is a results oriented business.


Schmetzer is a very good underrated coach.

Regardless, we don't get the results this year with a Tab Ramos type, which is the level you can expect if Vanney were to leave.

[portu]

The USMNT is seeing some real talent playing on the world stage now after some down years, moving forward this job will be attractive again especially heading towards 2022 and obviously 2026 on home soil.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnsbhqVXUAIMah7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

They overhype the shit out of their player pool constantly. Chris Richards is a Bayern II player in all but name. I don’t see them becoming as big as they think they’ll be anytime soon.

I’d like to see Vanney stay, but I fear he’s had a hand in a lot of the erroneous signings and poor management of the roster.

[NK Toronto]

Schmetzer is a very good underrated coach.

Regardless, we don't get the results this year with a Tab Ramos type, which is the level you can expect if Vanney were to leave.

Why do you assume we wouldn't get a good coach if Vanney were to leave? TFC is one of the big budget MLS clubs which would would make the head coach job attractive. It would depend on how much they would offer in salary.

[Oldtimer]

Why do you assume we wouldn't get a good coach if Vanney were to leave? TFC is one of the big budget MLS clubs which would would make the head coach job attractive. It would depend on how much they would offer in salary.

Maybe because we had the same big budget but never had a coach of his caliber before him. So it's wishful thinking.

Other big-budget team (LAG, NYRB, NYFC) have had their struggles in the coaching department. Money does not guarantee success in any league, but especially in MLS.

I didn't want Vanney when he came, I wanted Kreis. I'm very happy to admit I was wrong. Others will never change their minds.

Vanney could win the next 5 MLS Cups and there would still be people saying #vanneyout . That's the great thing about this game, everyone has a different perspective.

There will be a time for him to leave (probably to take charge of the USMNT), I'll trust our brain-trust to know when that time comes.

[OgtheDim]

I think he's as likely to take over the CanMNT for 2026.

[MightyDM]

I found it curious that his contract wasn’t signed earlier this season. I wonder if he doesn’t have an offer. France? He has connections and experience there.

[ag futbol]

Maybe because we had the same big budget but never had a coach of his caliber before him. So it's wishful thinking.

Other big-budget team (LAG, NYRB, NYFC) have had their struggles in the coaching department. Money does not guarantee success in any league, but especially in MLS.

I would have to agree, getting a good coach in this league can be tricky but there are examples for doing it right... Portland and Seattle successfully changed managers. LAFC hit the ground running with Bradley fairly well. It’s not quite as tricky as it once was but still something to be careful doing.

Notwithstanding that, I’d prefer Vanney stay.

[Richard]

100% support for Vanney.

He has shown to be forward thinking and grown leaps and bounds.

Great manager and role model.

[NK Toronto]

100% support for Vanney.

He has shown to be forward thinking and grown leaps and bounds.

Great manager and role model.

I would argue that given the talent that TFC has brought in over the past 6 years we should have won more trophies than 1 shield and 1 MLS Cup, both in the same year. In some ways we have underachieved. We don't seem to fare too well in finals. If Vanney is not back I wouldn't be devastated.

[OgtheDim]

I would argue that given the talent that TFC has brought in ...


The only team in our league arguably better then us these last 5 seasons has been Seattle. Unlike Europe, money does not guarantee success (see ATL & LAFC) - nor does it make up for bad coaching (see LAG the last 5 years).

BTW, the "their salary is more then others therefore they should be great" idea is a canard. We have ALWAYS been near the top in salary. Because we tend to spend more on DP's then others do. High salary DP's do not guarantee success either - (see us 2018 & Miami this year)

[bhandsome90]

Team crying out for speed & width as well as young CBs - gets none.

Gallardo was suppose to provide width and pace, but I think Vanney prefers more of a wide midfielder over forward wingers because of defense.

I really thought the team was going to switch to more of a offensive 4-3-3 or a proper 4-2-3-1.

[jloome]

How about we wait until February and then have an Ali Curtis poll?

I remain skeptical that he has an ability to recognize and sign talent and isn't just a political bullshitter. When he was in NY, Jesse Marsch reportedly couldn't work with him, and his hundred-of-pages "plan" for the franchise was roundly mocked by other staff. Most of the gains in their youth system made before he got there seem now to have evaporated.

[jloome]

Gallardo was suppose to provide width and pace, but I think Vanney prefers more of a wide midfielder over forward wingers because of defense.

Or who can do anything competently at this level, even. Gallardo is the second coming of Akexte.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

How about we wait until February and then have an Ali Curtis poll?

I remain skeptical that he has an ability to recognize and sign talent and isn't just a political bullshitter.

I'm afraid he's just a political bullshitter, but I hope I'm wrong.
I give him maximum 3 months beginning with today, to prove he can do anything valuable for TFC.

Promoting talent from TFC 2 to TFC? I don't find that for such we even need someone in his position. He needs to be judged stricty on signings from outside the TFC organisation.

[Ultra & Proud]

Promoting talent from TFC 2 to TFC? I don't find that for such we even need someone in his position. He needs to be judged stricty on signings from outside the TFC organisation.

If he works like he did when in NYRB, it's not about him promoting players from TFC2, it's about him getting the right people and procedures in place that we can actually develop players than could play for TFC rather than just eat a free supplemental roster spot until they're released as we've mostly done since 2007.

[paul-collins]

The only team in our league arguably better then us these last 5 seasons has been Seattle. Unlike Europe, money does not guarantee success (see ATL & LAFC) - nor does it make up for bad coaching (see LAG the last 5 years).

BTW, the "their salary is more then others therefore they should be great" idea is a canard. We have ALWAYS been near the top in salary. Because we tend to spend more on DP's then others do. High salary DP's do not guarantee success either - (see us 2018 & Miami this year)
This is extremely spot on. People bitching about only winning in 2017 are writing off that the team made the finals two other years, which in MLS structure is a pretty amazing feat.

I don't think you can read too much into this season, given the COVID asterisks, but they still did just fine until injuries took them down in the end.

He took a team that had never made playoffs before, got them their first berth, then next year their first final (losing in PKs), then their first shield and Cup, then all the way to CCF finals PKs. Over those 2.5 years the team had almost no downtime because of making it to the finals, and at the end of the CCF run they were broken, and with the league's roster structure, they couldn't recover for that season. The next season they were right back to the finals.

That's actually a hell of a record.

[Initial B]

Most of the gains in their youth system made before he got there seem now to have evaporated.They have a number of academy products in the first team now, who would have started development about the time Curtis implemented his plan. Any academy plans take about 8 years to come to fruition, so wait and see how the Red Bulls develop over the next decade before judging his legacy there.

[ag futbol]

They have a number of academy products in the first team now, who would have started development about the time Curtis implemented his plan. Any academy plans take about 8 years to come to fruition, so wait and see how the Red Bulls develop over the next decade before judging his legacy there.

This long term time frame thing for academy players is misguided. A prospect of a player going pro isn’t ruined if you get him later in his teen years. We drop and sign new youth players season-to-season all the time as is common in many places across the globe.

Youth development is all over the map. Players ascend or descend rapidly depending on their work ethic, physical abilities, or what the next level of play requires. Having to switch players usually is not indicative of bad coaching or scouting.

There are plenty of good places to develop outside of TFCA in the GTA. If you put in place proper scouting, recruitment and coaching you can see results in far less time. Of course all else equal the players you get after 8 years will be better than those after lesser time periods but the future of TFCA is not dependent on the type of coaching some 13 year old kid is getting right now.

Case in point Ralph Priso failed to make TFCA 3 years straight before being accepted to the program. He now looks like our most MLS-ready academy grad.

[MightyDM]

This is extremely spot on. People bitching about only winning in 2017 are writing off that the team made the finals two other years, which in MLS structure is a pretty amazing feat.

I don't think you can read too much into this season, given the COVID asterisks, but they still did just fine until injuries took them down in the end.

He took a team that had never made playoffs before, got them their first berth, then next year their first final (losing in PKs), then their first shield and Cup, then all the way to CCF finals PKs. Over those 2.5 years the team had almost no downtime because of making it to the finals, and at the end of the CCF run they were broken, and with the league's roster structure, they couldn't recover for that season. The next season they were right back to the finals.

That's actually a hell of a record.

Yes it is. It is a real loss to lose Vanney. Might even be the right time, but it's a real loss.

[MightyDM]

This long term time frame thing for academy players is misguided. A prospect of a player going pro isn’t ruined if you get him later in his teen years. We drop and sign new youth players season-to-season all the time as is common in many places across the globe.

Youth development is all over the map. Players ascend or descend rapidly depending on their work ethic, physical abilities, or what the next level of play requires. Having to switch players usually is not indicative of bad coaching or scouting.

There are plenty of good places to develop outside of TFCA in the GTA. If you put in place proper scouting, recruitment and coaching you can see results in far less time. Of course all else equal the players you get after 8 years will be better than those after lesser time periods but the future of TFCA is not dependent on the type of coaching some 13 year old kid is getting right now.

Case in point Ralph Priso failed to make TFCA 3 years straight before being accepted to the program. He now looks like our most MLS-ready academy grad.

Boy he impressed. Like a seasoned midfielder.

[Oldtimer]

Closing this thread as it's now moot.

Continue with the Greg Vanney steps down thread (for general discussion of Vanney's legacy positive or negative, or his replacement, etc.): http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?42994-Greg-Vanney-Steps-Down

or the Greg Vanney appreciation thread (tributes only): http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?42996-Greg-Vanney-appreciation-thread