Regular Season Phase 2 Game 10 NYC "@" TFC Wed Oct 28 7:30pm - Take A Deep Breath

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7NUCNQnQQ


*************

Have At It People

[Smokecell]

Question is are we still playing for the shield or are we resting and getting healthy for the playoffs? Philly controls their own destiny with 3 to go.

[NK Toronto]

I would be significantly reducing playing time over the last 3 games for all of our key players such as Poz, Osorio, Delgado, Piatti, Akinola, Omar, Laryea, Mavinga and Auro. Unless these guys are healthy and playing I don't believe we have a shot at MLS Cup. Home field advantage is less important this year since there are no fans and no games at BMO.

This will also allow Vanney to assess some of the young guys as well as those on the bubble.

[Red CB Toronto]

I would be significantly reducing playing time over the last 3 games for all of our key players such as Poz, Osorio, Delgado, Piatti, Akinola, Omar, Laryea, Mavinga and Auro. Unless these guys are healthy and playing I don't believe we have a shot at MLS Cup. Home field advantage is less important this year since there are no fans and no games at BMO.

This will also allow Vanney to assess some of the young guys as well as those on the bubble.

Homefield is huge, even in Hartford, means they would not face travel during these Covid times, especially if it was into some of the hot spots.

[Auzzy]

Homefield is huge, even in Hartford, means they would not face travel during these Covid times, especially if it was into some of the hot spots.

I agree, plus avoiding plastic turf, with all the injuries we already have.

[OgtheDim]

We melt down in the next 3 games & get caught by Orlando, do any of you REALLY want to see our team go down into that Covid cesspool, to play in front of fans, all for the sake of some rest?

[jabbronies]

We need to keep pushing for the Shield. We should be able to compete with a full squad these next two games. Not having to travel should help with recovery.

Hopefully then we are in a better position going into that final game to rest players before the playoff run.

[CBTFC]

Keep in mind we have 5 subs each game. Sure yeah a bit of squad rotation both tomorrow and Sunday, but no need to completely flip the starting 11 around.

Rotate 4-5 if it makes sense, otherwise steady as she goes.

[Joe Kool]

Delgado and Osorio....you don't realize how much contribution to the midfield they provide until they are not there. They also make up for Bradley's lack of speed when all playing together. Can't wait until Oso is back and hopefully Marky is recovered soon too. You could tell Delgado was burnt out a bit and a little injured but playing through it the last couple games because he was not his usual self. If we can't get the midfield strong again I think this will be a short playoff run.

We also need at least Akinola to stay healthy since we can't count on Altidore. Mullins running at defenders just doesn't strike the same fear into teams as a healthy Akinola or Altidore would. Without that danger up top teams can focus on putting more pressure on Poz and Piatti.

CB's....we need Mavinga back as soon as possible but if our offensive pressure is good on teams it should take some heat off our CB situation. Ciman did well recently although he still loves to slide too much and he is a red card waiting to happen as always.

The result against Philly was no surprise given our current situation and who we had on the field last weekend along with a bunch of those guys just not having a good game when they had the opportunity to play and make a case for themselves.

The good thing is our team seems to know how to grind out games and they always have a decent run then one game where they have a stinker so hopefully that was it and we get stronger again from here.

[Graeme]

From the Match Preview on Torontofc.ca: "The club is hopeful to have Ayo Akinola and his eight goals this season back in the lineup against New York City. While Chris Mavinga, Eriq Zavaleta, Pablo Piatti and Jonathan Osorio are all questionable."

At least "questionable" is better than "Out"...

[ag futbol]

I would prioritize being healthy over home field.

Looking at the standings, Phily is the only team (and maybe Colombus) that can jump us. It’s almost certain we finish ahead of the West. The cost of not winning here is potentially one road game in the Northeast US.

I would try hard to win one of the remaining games and devote the rest of our time to being ready when playoffs arrive

[Ben - D.O.W.]

I've been against this season from the very (re)start - but we've played it, we might as well go for the shield.

Looking at our schedule (NYCFC, Miami, Redbulls) vs Philly's (Columbus, NER, Chicago) I don't hate our chances.

[noxx98]

Injury update...
https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1321157049087107073?s=20

Having Piatti out for the rest of the regular season will hurt. Who's next in line to play the wing spots at this point...? Oso, Laryea, Nelson? Gallardo can't cut it, Endoh hasn't shown much.

[MikeForbes]

I would use Laryea as a winger with Piatti out. Auro and Gallacher can play as fullbacks.

[ag futbol]

As a side note, what did everyone think of Marshall-Rutty last game? I thought he did alright and didn’t try to overplay things. Looked pretty sharp in that attempt on net too.

Still a tad gangly and awkward at his age but makes me excited what we’ll see next year.

[Joe Kool]

I would use Laryea as a winger with Piatti out. Auro and Gallacher can play as fullbacks.

I would be up for this for Laryea to be used in an attacking role. As far as fullbacks go though Morrow is back so I would say Morrow/Auro with Gallacher as backup.

[Bushmancan]

I would use Laryea as a winger with Piatti out. Auro and Gallacher can play as fullbacks.

Auro is out for Wednesday as a result of the yellow card on Saturday.

[noxx98]

Morrow is also back now. In the past I think he's played on the right side a few times when required.

[OgtheDim]

As a side note, what did everyone think of Marshall-Rutty last game?....

By that point, it was all one blur that didn't have enough alcohol.

*****

Day before presser with Vanney - think he got a haircut

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2020/10/27/training-sound-greg-vanney-october-27-2020?autoplay=true

[NK Toronto]

Two problems with this team. 1. There are a lot of players who can't stay healthy. Jozy, Mavinga, Akinola, Morrow, Piatti are all injury prone. 2. We lack depth. i.e. Philadelphia. What's the point in home field advantage if we have to field a lineup like we did Saturday?

[OgtheDim]

Reasons have been given in this thread and others. Regardless, its not going to happen. The only time this team gave up on going for a possible win was that one game against Houston & it was referenced as a serious mistake by all involved during the end of that 2018 season interviews & retrospectives.

The best team possible, in the eyes of the coaching staff, will be put forward tomorrow night to get the 3 points.

[NK Toronto]

I am having difficulty trying to assess where this team is. When I saw the lineup vs. Phila I didn't expect a result, but I didn't expect a 5 nil loss either, which could have been worse if not for a few good saves by Q. We had gone through a good stretch there without a loss but looking at the team's play over the period we had a lot of good fortune on our side, winning games where we were outplayed (NYCFC), or where the other team missed a penalty (NER), or where we had a penalty overturned by VAR (CINCI). That was also the game Ciman almost scored an own goal from midfield. Based on our play in those games we probably deserved only 2 points rather than nine.

I really have no idea what to expect from this team going forward. They are a handicappers nightmare

[OgtheDim]

Take a Deep Breath

Hold it

Let it Out slowly

Breathe normally

Look around

Be thankful for anything or anybody you have in your life

Consider smiling for a moment


*********

Its Game Day

Time to ride again

:scarf:

[Joe Kool]

Reasons have been given in this thread and others. Regardless, its not going to happen. The only time this team gave up on going for a possible win was that one game against Houston & it was referenced as a serious mistake by all involved during the end of that 2018 season interviews & retrospectives.

The best team possible, in the eyes of the coaching staff, will be put forward tomorrow night to get the 3 points.

Yup. Try to win every game with the best team possible is the mentality. Win the last 3 hopefully and make Philly need a perfect schedule as well if they want the Shield.

[portu]

I like Piatti, but if he doesn’t play another match this year and we take his option I will blow a gasket

[Kamp Berg]

Tonight should be a good test of whether last game was a temporary blip or luck running out.
🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

[Bushmancan]

I like Piatti, but if he doesn’t play another match this year and we take his option I will blow a gasket

I agree, the only silver lining potentially in this is Piatti will be challenged in any league to find a better place for him. With the injury history and now this (I can’t believe it was a training issue), it potentially justifies trying to secure him as a Tam. I would do that in a heartbeat.

And then we try to find our next under 22 DP.

[Red CB Toronto]

I agree, the only silver lining potentially in this is Piatti will be challenged in any league to find a better place for him. With the injury history and now this (I can’t believe it was a training issue), it potentially justifies trying to secure him as a Tam. I would do that in a heartbeat.

And then we try to find our next under 22 DP.

What is Piatti making, 1.5M, that's not too much of a hit to pick up. Think he is making the same as Victor was before he left for the middle east.

[noxx98]

What is Piatti making, 1.5M, that's not too much of a hit to pick up. Think he is making the same as Victor was before he left for the middle east.
The salary cap is also going up next year by about $600K (inclusive of increases to GAM). With that, we should hopefully be able to free up some TAM for Piatti, particularly if we can clear out or reduce some of the larger salaries for players like Ciman, Zavaleta, Mullins, and Gallardo.

[Red CB Toronto]

https://scontent.fybz2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s1080x2048/123093549_4709657059106203_4413578061548022411_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=Jq4-3ro-520AX8TbJQF&_nc_ht=scontent.fybz2-2.fna&tp=7&oh=2b0559592648a3a859d60bb286a43206&oe=5FBEE774

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1 = TFC
2 = NYC

Interesting, we are considered underdogs by the bookmakers.
I was thinking we'll be small favourites, something like +130 - ish.

In these conditions I could not stop myself to put $60 on TFC at +0.25-132, because that looks too good to pass on. I don't think we lose again, though there's big chance for this to end in draw. Initially I wanted to go on with $100, but I was too chicken, lol...

[Joe Kool]

When NYCFC coach asked about containing Pozuelo he seemed annoyed a bit to be asked. "Every time we play them we get this question. He is good but not that good. He is no Messi" Haha.

[MikeForbes]

If things keep going the way they are at Barcalona, Pozuelo will probably be playing with Messi at Barca in January. Haha.

[Bushmancan]

When NYCFC coach asked about containing Pozuelo he seemed annoyed a bit to be asked. "Every time we play them we get this question. He is good but not that good. He is no Messi" Haha.


Don’t forget this is the team that pressed us very similar to what Philly did. Need to break their press right away... we changed all that when we had Laryea as the LW so they couldn’t just focus on one side of Auro, Piatti and Poz.

[Graeme]

Depending on who is out, this could be ugly. In addition to the injuries, I believe Auro is out due to yellow card accumulation. Hopefully we see Morrow and Laryea start (and Mavinga). Then we may eek out a chance. Without Mavinga, every game feels 50:50 to me!

[OgtheDim]

IF all those questionables are out - 3-1 loss.

[MikeForbes]

The starting lineup is... Not promising.

[tfcfans]

Bye Bye Shield - could basically be done tonight with a loss and a Philly win. Just not a good enough lineup to score goals unless given some penalties, or a wonder strike; no Mavinga starting on the back end doesn’t breed confidence either....sad way to end a great regular season....

[reggie]

its seems ayo has become jozy...if they get a good offer for him move him this off season.

[ag futbol]

its seems ayo has become jozy...if they get a good offer for him move him this off season.
Let’s not jump to conclusions, he’s a ways off being Jozy. And let’s consider the number of back-to-backs we played this year with little squad rotation might have pushed a few of these guys over the edge.

[MikeForbes]

Willing to give Ayo another year before labeling him as injury prone. Gonna be very interesting to see what happens with the front 3 in the offseason though. I really think we will be bringing in two new DP's (one a u22) to fill those spots.

[reggie]

Let’s not jump to conclusions, he’s a ways off being Jozy. And let’s consider the number of back-to-backs we played this year with little squad rotation might have pushed a few of these guys over the edge.
ok but...but he missed most of last season also.seems to have hammy issues,vanney is so conservative with injured players how many points did he throw away last season.

[OgtheDim]

Yup, 3-1 for the bad guys.

Most interested to see if they team can work through the press given the slow midfield & how Gallacher does with a more defensive minded winger in front of him.

[reggie]

only 4 goals in the last 5 games.lucky if we get nil nil tonight,our 200k striker has more starts then our 6mil striker:facepalm:

[613reppingTFC]

Let's hope he passes him in goals tonight too

[rydermike]

I was about to shut off the tv if that counted

[Bushmancan]

That was too easy, offside or not.

[OgtheDim]

Bradley just watching the ball as against seeing what is going on around him as their best player gets into the box on his own

[tfcfans]

This won’t be close....sad end to a nice Regular season.....might still need to play hard in the last two games to hold onto second and potentially keep that Conference Semi-Final game in Hartford as opposed to away at Columbus....among other potential matchup locations should we go far in the playoffs (avoid traveling West?!).....

[OgtheDim]

NYC is not Philly - their midfield can be played through

[Bushmancan]

I was going to say, a lot disorganized but they are pressuring hard.

[SirBobSaget]

First time Laryea is mentioned. Really quiet start for him.

[OgtheDim]

Fraser didn't have to bash that player over - looked like he was just mad afterwards - lad may need to calm down.

[Derko]

Fraser didn't have to bash that player over - looked like he was just mad afterwards - lad may need to calm down.
Fraser's playing hockey, trying to prove himself I suppose, TFC do look like shite, slowest defense in the league will kill us.

[NK Toronto]

Given the lineup I would gladly take a scoreless draw. I can't see us scoring a goal.

[rydermike]

I hate when a player is open/makes a run and then instead of getting the ball the other player tries to pass to Pozuelo when he's not in the right spot. Morrow there had Mullins on a through ball and tried that disaster cross.

[NK Toronto]

Bradley is a disaster

[ag futbol]

Why play Morrow in midfield and Laryea at fullback? Honestly, having Morrow on his wrong side is not that big of a deal

[tfcfans]

When you don’t have finishers near the net, it’s really hard to score.....

[rydermike]

Morrows age is catching up to him. A couple years ago hemay have 2 goals today. A little Extra burst to get space on shot

[tfcfans]

Ciman beat again.....

[rydermike]

Why play Morrow in midfield and Laryea at fullback? Honestly, having Morrow on his wrong side is not that big of a deal
Lack of trust in Gallacher

[tfcfans]

A tie would be a gift tonight.....

[Derko]

Lack of trust in Gallacher
I trust Gallacher a bit more than Ciman and Gonzalez our overrated CB's

[Inklink]

Getting sick of the bald triplets.

[oranje boven]

Other then Poz our passing is awful. Ciman and his penchant for always having to do a slide drives me nuts.

[MikeForbes]

Has anyone ever considered marking Moralez?

[tfcfans]

Philly winning......bye bye Shield...

[OgtheDim]

Gallacher having a decent game but my Gawd Fraser & Bradley are so darn slow.

[SoccMan2]

Just a matter of time before the floodgates open for NYCF , good bye supporters shield !

[NK Toronto]

The lines person on the far side of the field looks like "Pat" from Saturday Night Live.

[OgtheDim]

A tie would be a gift tonight.....


To be honest, this could either be a 3-1 loss or a start the car 1-0 win - NYC is going to give us a chance - their midfield has no concept of defensiveness because of their press.

[MikeForbes]

If you are bald and have a beard on the field, you are probably having a bad game.

[benito]

If you are bald and have a beard on the field, you are probably having a bad game.

Sad but true

[SirBobSaget]

0-0 and no injuries would be a dream result.

[MikeForbes]

The worst part about Bradley being back is no matter how bad he is playing, he will never ever be benched.

[SirBobSaget]

Bradley is a shell of his former self. Hopefully its just a matter of regaining game shape and not the toll of the injuries

[MikeForbes]

Gallacher's best game so far.

[Thomas]

You kind of take it for granted and don’t notice Marky, but it shows tonight.



Bradley is a shell of his former self. Hopefully its just a matter of regaining game shape and not the toll of the injuries

[tfcfans]

No Mavinga, no chance defensively to hold them to no goals against, as will be required to get a point tonight....

[bhandsome90]

Any of the kids have pace? Passing is bad tonight, might as well just lob it down field and have a runner.

[tfcfans]

Chicago with a Red in the first half so that’s a Philly win - only hope is we somehow get a point tonight, win the last two somehow and Philly loses at Columbus next Sunday.....it’s our only realistic path to the shield.....We can’t win a tiebreaker against Philly so we have to stay within 2 points after tonight and hope for the aforementioned results.....Fire did score but I don’t see that result lasting too long.....

[NK Toronto]

Where did all these injuries come from? Training? At this time of the year maybe training sessions should be very light.

[SirBobSaget]

For me finishing 2nd in the East and 2nd in the league is not so bad all things considered. At worst would mean a Conference Final in Philly. If get there the MLS Cup would still be at home. That's a bigger deal.

Point tonight would be really helpful putting 7 points between 2nd and 3rd place challengers.

[Bushmancan]

Get out of the first half and Og I think your second comment might be a real possibility.

[jloome]

Really missing Osorio and Delgado tonight. Bradley is badly slowed, Fraser seems lost as usual. Pozuelo and Deleon sort of holding it together for us.

Third tier striker, unproven DM, errors prone slow CBs. Can’t miss so many important players and expect to compete.

[MikeForbes]

Here is my diagram of what our back line looks like with Bradley and Fraser playing midfield.

* * * * * *

[tfcfans]

That was our only hope - wonder-strike....

[rydermike]

What a shot. Deleon has some rockets on the regulsr

[NK Toronto]

Chicago with a Red in the first half so that’s a Philly win - only hope is we somehow get a point tonight, win the last two somehow and Philly loses at Columbus next Sunday.....it’s our only realistic path to the shield.....We can’t win a tiebreaker against Philly so we have to stay within 2 points after tonight and hope for the aforementioned results.....Fire did score but I don’t see that result lasting too long.....

I think most people have given up on the shield after Saturday.

[SoccMan2]

DeLeon best players out there tonight hands down!

[tfcfans]

A gift of a result through 45.....

[rydermike]

We only have 4 of our best 11. (Westberg, Omar, Laryea, and Pozuelo).
Cant expect much.


I think Bradley is officially out of the best 11. The Osorio Delgado double pivot is much better than current Bradley

[ag futbol]

Lot of unenthusiastic performances out there tonight. I would expect some of these players to be hungrier than they are getting the chance to start

[ag futbol]

I think Bradley is officially out of the best 11. The Osorio Delgado double pivot is much better than current Bradley
Totally agree but I would also suspect 0% of happening.

[MikeForbes]

We only have 4 of our best 11. (Westberg, Omar, Laryea, and Pozuelo).
Cant expect much.


I think Bradley is officially out of the best 11. The Osorio Delgado double pivot is much better than current Bradley

He never will be though. There is the issue. I promise you when everyone is healthy the midfield will be Delgado and Bradley with Osorio shoved over to the left.

[rydermike]

Totally agree but I would also suspect 0% of happening.
I agree with the likelihood

[OgtheDim]

Lot of unenthusiastic performances out there tonight. I would expect some of these players to be hungrier than they are getting the chance to start


I don't see that at all. See people not able to compete with the midfield playing as it is but DeLeon has been go go all game as has Gallacher & Morrow.

NYC likely to score but they do have issues at the back & we can score here.

[rydermike]

He never will be though. There is the issue. I promise you when everyone is healthy the midfield will be Delgado and Bradley with Osorio shoved over to the left.

Yes, Vanney will never take him out. I meant "my best xi" since it's not the same as Vanney best xi

[Auzzy]

Gonzalez, Ciman and Bradley are so slow and ungainly/clumsy, they're all kinda done. All have let very dangerous balls go through their legs, and/or given the ball away. Really problematic to have them together in the middle. And Fraser doesn't add any quickness. Fraser actually isn't that slow in terms of top speed: we saw that in the play a few minutes ago, recovering in the middle and getting whistled for a BS foul. However he's not quick. Way too easy to pass or dribble past all four of them in the middle.

Pozuelo is on an island, and Laryea is getting double-teamed often. TFC can't hold onto the ball. So far Deleon is our only hope going forward.

[MikeForbes]

Yes, Vanney will never take him out. I meant "my best xi" since it's not the same as Vanney best xi

I agree with you. Bradley falls into the late sub for defensive purposes at this point for me. Fraser falls into Gallardo island.

[rydermike]

That was an undeserved red for Chicago. Glad they tied it, but they will be in tough to hold that

[ag futbol]

OT, but pretty obvious roster needs a decent sized overhaul in off season. And for the love of god, stop signing guys who are injury prone and insisting it’s not an issue.

[Red CB Toronto]

Now its time for the Reds to step up and make something happen, Nick's shot shows they can do it.

[tfcfans]

DC just scored on Columbus !

[MikeForbes]

Alright. Let's get a point or three.

[Bushmancan]

So what are the second half changes

[rydermike]

We're 14 goals behind the union on goal differential. Come on boys score 15 goals this half lol

[rydermike]

Bye bye shield

[MikeForbes]

Damn that Jesus.

[NK Toronto]

Q to blame on that one

[ag futbol]

Laryea looks gassed. Not his usual self out there

[NK Toronto]

Time to start the discussion on a permanent move for Bradley to CB, as Ciman's replacement next year.

[NK Toronto]

Laryea looks gassed. Not his usual self out there

Him and Poz need a rest

[tfcfans]

Down to the Fire who’s down a man on the road to save our Shield opportunity.....seems like hoping on Cinci FC on the road down two men to get us a home playoff game last year.....how many gifts can we realistically expect.....my hunch is the Shield is realistically done tonight, and we need DC to get a result to help us stay in second place.....

[MikeForbes]

I still don't see what people see in Fraser. Besides the birth certificate and the borderline obsession of some TFC journos.

[rydermike]

When was the last time Shaff played?

[MikeForbes]

A Nova Scotian will change this game.

[NK Toronto]

Did Mullins even touch the ball tonight?

[rydermike]

Did Mullins even touch the ball tonight?

Opening kickoff?

[bhandsome90]

Time to start the discussion on a permanent move for Bradley to CB, as Ciman's replacement next year.

Fraser might need to switch to CB also. Too slow.

[NK Toronto]

Opening kickoff?

I stand corrected

[SirBobSaget]

Dont Gallardo your opportunity Shaffelburg

[SirBobSaget]

When was the last time Shaff played?


Disney tourney

[Bushmancan]

That f—kin linesman in the first half he didn’t raise his flag on two obvious NYCFC offsides and he flagged two TFC plays in a row. That LAst one was too close.

[SirBobSaget]

Has to be Bradley's worst MLS game ever. Cant connect a pass or do much of anything.

Edit to say its not fair to Bradley he was probably 2 weeks away from actually being fit to start but cant help rush back

[tfcfans]

Philly scores....the end......

[MikeForbes]

How easy is it to cut through our midfield right now?

[tfcfans]

We are no threat whatsoever.....

[tfcfans]

Any result tonight would have given us false hope through Sunday’s Phil-Clbs game, but alas that hope is gone now.....

[Inklink]

Cimian is a turnstile

[Thomas]

Fraser is not going to do it...and the General is just not as sharp anymore.



Any result tonight would have given us false hope through Sunday’s Phil-Clbs game, but alas that hope is gone now.....

[bhandsome90]

Is there no sub for Laryea? Guy looks tired.

[Red CB Toronto]

Looks like we will get to see what Ralph can do in a somewhat more intense situation.

[SirBobSaget]

The one thing I don't understand about soccer management is the reluctance to use subs. In a game where we are looking tired and overrun why not make more subs?

Well there we go Fraser has looked like a 16 year old nervous first start all game.

[MikeForbes]

I hope Priso has any kind of mobility.

[Auzzy]

OMFG Gonzalez...

[SirBobSaget]

OMFG Gonzalez...

Exposed without Mavinga cleaning up for him

[MikeForbes]

I have a feeling I will be seeing Jacob Shaffelburg playing in Halifax next year.

[Red CB Toronto]

I have a feeling I will be seeing Jacob Shaffelburg playing in Halifax next year.

Kind of surprised he was not loaned to them for the Island games to get some regular minutes like some other Reds did.

[Red CB Toronto]

Man the Reds are lucky to be only down by 1.

[SKB]

Where is TFC as a team? Are we a top team in the league or middle of the back at best. When we have all our players healthy we are good team definitely in the top 10 in the league. However, we are never completely healthy and the team is aging. When we won the cup the league was amazed at our depth but now we have no depth. We have not been restocking the team with good young or in their prime talent. The talent from the academy has not been that great either with a few exceptions. The winning streak we have had was misleading I feel we won a lot of 1-0 games, which is hard to sustain. If anything it is a credit to the good coaching of Vanney. We are at cross roads and need to rebuild the team before it is too late. I do not feel our GM has done a good and he should be released. We will need to open up some cap space with some tough decisions in regards to some of our veterans. I will always be indebted to Jozy for scoring “the goal” and Bradley has been the best captain you could ever ask for, but sports is cruel and skills diminish quickly with time. We need an overhaul, not some light tinkering and I am not sure the management is up to that.

[SirBobSaget]

Kind of surprised he was not loaned to them for the Island games to get some regular minutes like some other Reds did.

Agreed look at the difference with Nelson who is 2 years younger.

[MikeForbes]

Caldwell wants to ask Nelson to prom by the sounds of it.

[tfcfans]

Who will be on the field on November 21st or so ? This group on the field now isn’t even playoff worthy, yet a fully healthy squad has the chance to go all the way; that’s the variability of watching this team.....Until I see a lineup before the first playoff game there’s no point having grand discussions about this season - give me a healthy Altidore/Akinola, Piatti, Osorio, Delgado, Mavinga, Auro and we are a completely different team....

[parma]

Youth please....

[SirBobSaget]

The only positive tonight has been Nelson's energy and Deleon's consistency. Frasier and Shaffelburg have likely joined Gallardo on the out the door team.

[SKB]

The score was very flattering to TFC should have lost 3-0 at least

[bhandsome90]

The only positive tonight has been Nelson's energy and Deleon's consistency. Frasier and Shaffelburg have likely joined Gallardo on the out the door team.

Endoh also, actually would like to see him middle of the park and not wide. Bradley needs to switch positions to CB.

[Red CB Toronto]

The only positive tonight has been Nelson's energy and Deleon's consistency. Frasier and Shaffelburg have likely joined Gallardo on the out the door team.

Wonder if they will loan Jacob to say Halifax, see what he does with regular minutes and decide on his future after that? Also Julian Dunn, Griffin Dorsey etc. I like the idea of kids playing regular minutes like Okello and Romeo are right now in Denmark.

[tfcfans]

Not too many teams are going to look too good with at least 5-6 players out who would be starting normally including all of your potential strikers....kind of hard to win with no real threat up front.....teams can press because there is no threat to break the press and make them pay for being too aggressive.....

[OgtheDim]

They'll likely try Osorio with Bradley in the middle before they give up on Bradley starting.

But... Bradley shouldn't start anymore.

[NK Toronto]

You can add Mullins, Ciman, and Zavaleta to that list of guys not coming back.

[ag futbol]

Well the result is sort of whatever but my concern is our best player continues to log minutes without any real rest heading into playoff time. If he doesn’t play well or is gassed we are toast.

I’m done with a lot of our veteran substitutes. We call on guys who at best give a 6 out of 10 performance but are relatively consistent in doing so. It’s time to think bigger. Endoh is 27 for god sakes stop rewarding him with time like he’s some sort of developing respect.

[Smokecell]

The shield talk was so premature that it hurts.

[SoccMan2]

This team has no depth nothing nada ! Without Mavinga, Osorio and Piatti this team is not winning another game this season including the playoff game and it doesn’t matter who they play . Pozzuello without these players around him is nothing as we have seen in these past two games . I don’t think he took a shot on goal . Pathetic display by the players on the field these last two games . Let’s hope these players get back or else it will be over very quickly for this team one and done !

[tfcfans]

The sad part is they still need results in the last game or two, in order to avoid finishing third or fourth and potentially having a second road playoff game.

[Derko]

Well I think Vanney has gone as far as he can as a coach, Vanney, Ciman, Gonzalez, Bradley, Fraser, looked like donkeys on the pitch, we have no answers, we have tge same game and no backup plans, I am all for TFC but we will have the same excuses again, Vanney will take no ownership of this loss, a disgrace

[NK Toronto]

Watching Vanney's interview with Davidson and he seems testy.

[OgtheDim]

The shield talk was so premature that it hurts.

Nah, it was real & then we lost our last decent striker, our best defender & 3/4 of our midfield.

With those 5 in the lineup, we play very differently the last 2 games.

Oso & Delgado don't get injured very often. Losing both of them & Piatti isolates Poz.

[OgtheDim]

Well I think Vanney has gone as far as he can as a coach, Vanney, Ciman, Gonzalez, Bradley, Fraser, looked like donkeys on the pitch, we have no answers, we have tge same game and no backup plans, I am all for TFC but we will have the same excuses again, Vanney will take no ownership of this loss, a disgrace

Oh please.

No MLS team loses 3/4 of its midfield, its best defender & its 2 best strikers & does well.

This isn't Man City

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1321630667466252288?s=19

[noimpactinmtl]

Well I think Vanney has gone as far as he can as a coach, Vanney, Ciman, Gonzalez, Bradley, Fraser, looked like donkeys on the pitch, we have no answers, we have tge same game and no backup plans, I am all for TFC but we will have the same excuses again, Vanney will take no ownership of this loss, a disgrace

You can switch Vanney with Guardiola and you'll call him a bald fraud. At some point, there's only so much you can do as a coach when half of your team gets injured and your academy can't replace them. What you can criticize him for, is the dire state of the academy, and whether he trusts players coming out of there or not.

[reggie]

i think you have to blame curtis for this depth,a dp striker that never plays should of learned from that last season ...one good cb ,gonzales is a donkey oh where is that winger

[ag futbol]

You can switch Vanney with Guardiola and you'll call him a bald fraud. At some point, there's only so much you can do as a coach when half of your team gets injured and your academy can't replace them. What you can criticize him for, is the dire state of the academy, and whether he trusts players coming out of there or not.
While I appreciate there’s probably not any more juice we could get out of this team in terms of a better record I take issue with the lack of squad rotation.

Why on earth did we start Osorio and Delgado a few days after a game where they looked gassed by half time and were practically jogging by 90. Osorio goes off next game with minor injury, we should consider ourselves lucky cause I think that decision was pretty damn poor by the coaching staff and trainers

[OgtheDim]

Fraser can't play with anyone but Bradley.

If you take out Oso & Delgado when Bradley is injured, you basically have Fraser and (insert TFC young prospect here) running the midfield behind Poz.

We don't have the depth in midfield we need.

[Bushmancan]

i think you have to blame curtis for this depth,a dp striker that never plays should of learned from that last season ...one good cb ,gonzales is a donkey oh where is that winger

100% Agree on this, I used to give Vanney a much harder time because I thought he had the horses but didn’t adapt. But Ali, has fallen into his NYRB patterns and although I think the young kids will be great, way to early for a cup contending team to be relying on them... I am sorry but I think he has dropped the ball, we haven’t heard a thing from him since before we lost to Philly.

[Auzzy]

Time to start the discussion on a permanent move for Bradley to CB, as Ciman's replacement next year.

How? You can't play Gonzalez and Bradley together, too slow x 2. Bradley could only be 3rd or 4th-place CB, replacing Gonzalez if necessary. It's basically Mavinga plus anybody, but if Mavinga is out they're screwed. And Mavinga is guaranteed to miss a couple of games every season, probably because of the way he plays.

I thought TFC actually played better for the last bit when all the subs had been made. Finally injected some speed. Should have started the game with some of that.

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1321637093752348678?s=19

FWIW

Sounds like the team is trying to get people back for the playoffs & if the people on the pitch happen to win, great.

So.. Not resting people for the playoffs as much as not bringing people back to early.

[OgtheDim]

Anyways, we are a top team in this league when healthy and will finish in the top 2 in the east and possibly top 2 in the whole league.

Given every thing else going on right now, will take that.

Yes, lessons the last two games for next season. Valuable ones.

But we are not a crappy team.

[reggie]

time will tell,if he is doing the right thing,safety resting these guys,this club has injury phone players,jozy,mavinga,morrow.piatti,ayo,bradley,and they didnt address those needs,we will see what happens.

[Derko]

[QUOTE=OgtheDim;1924947]Oh please.

No MLS team loses 3/4 of its midfield, its best defender & its 2 best strikers & does well.

This isn't Man City[/QUOTE

Give me a break Og, TFC have no depth, not expecting Man City, just expecting a backup plan that's all

[SirBobSaget]

The good news is they got past the crazy stretch. Now have a good 4 day rest to the next game. Then after that almost a full week. So out of the grind stage. Pick up a something like 4 points in the next 2 gets them sitting really well for MLS cup.

[NK Toronto]

How? You can't play Gonzalez and Bradley together, too slow x 2. Bradley could only be 3rd or 4th-place CB, replacing Gonzalez if necessary. It's basically Mavinga plus anybody, but if Mavinga is out they're screwed. Aind Mavinga is guaranteed to miss a couple of games every season, probably because of the way he plays.

I thought TFC actually played better for the last bit when all the subs had been made. Finally injected some speed. Should have started the game with some of that.

Would you rather have Bradley at CB or in the midfield, especially given that Ciman is our 3rd midfielder?

[NK Toronto]

i think you have to blame curtis for this depth,a dp striker that never plays should of learned from that last season ...one good cb ,gonzales is a donkey oh where is that winger

Have to agree. Jozy missed significant parts of last season including the playoffs. Curtis should have signed a striker in the off season. Also Gallardo has been a huge bust

[NK Toronto]

[QUOTE=OgtheDim;1924947]Oh please.

No MLS team loses 3/4 of its midfield, its best defender & its 2 best strikers & does well.

This isn't Man City[/QUOTE

Give me a break Og, TFC have no depth, not expecting Man City, just expecting a backup plan that's all

No league punishes bad contracts more than MLS. You have to get significant contributions from you DP's and your TAM players and we aren't. Right now 2 of our DP's are injured, while one TAM Gallardo can't make the lineup, and another TAM Bradley is playing poorly. These signings are on mgmt. Jozy's contract has significantly harmed this team and it will continue to harm it over the next 2 years unless we can unload him. As for Piatti he was a high risk signing to begin with and he has now broken down during the most crucial stretch of the season.

[Smokecell]

Nah, it was real & then we lost our last decent striker, our best defender & 3/4 of our midfield.

With those 5 in the lineup, we play very differently the last 2 games.

Oso & Delgado don't get injured very often. Losing both of them & Piatti isolates Poz.

I don’t refute any of this but I’m also highlighting that it was karmic to paint a manhole and tweet about shining the shield and then fall flat on our face.

[OgtheDim]

Give me a break Og, TFC have no depth, not expecting Man City, just expecting a backup plan that's all

The backup plan was, in varying degrees, Bradley & Fraser & Gallardo and all 3 have been found wanting.

[MightyDM]

While I appreciate there’s probably not any more juice we could get out of this team in terms of a better record I take issue with the lack of squad rotation.

Why on earth did we start Osorio and Delgado a few days after a game where they looked gassed by half time and were practically jogging by 90. Osorio goes off next game with minor injury, we should consider ourselves lucky cause I think that decision was pretty damn poor by the coaching staff and trainers

This does seem to be a recurring Vanney blind spot. Lots of people on these boards were calling for squad rotation. On the other hamd, those players got us to the strong position we are in in the d=standings.

[OgtheDim]

This does seem to be a recurring Vanney blind spot. Lots of people on these boards were calling for squad rotation. On the other hamd, those players got us to the strong position we are in in the d=standings.

Vanney was on the Caldwell, KJ & the other guy show about 6 weeks ago and said he would like to have done more rotation but you can't do that when you are fighting for the shield.

My issue is we seem to be always fighting for something - either the shield or to get into the playoffs.

[MightyDM]

many of the injuries - like Piatti and Oso - certainly appear to be from the crazy schedule. And while Bradley's form is shocking, the two injuries he has had over the past ten months were both very serious; he had barely recovered from the broken foot (with which he payed most of the MLS CUP) when that dirty tackle did his knee. He is clearly a step or two behind the pace of play at the moment but I'm not prepared to write him off just yet; he is still recovering. You possibly can blame the coaching staff for not rotating or the schedule, but at our best we move the ball quickly and penetrate. We need to get that team on the field playing that kind of soccer.

[Derko]

The backup plan was, in varying degrees, Bradley & Fraser & Gallardo and all 3 have been found wanting.

On reflection, yes that was the plan, just frustrating, we are better than the shambles we have seen playing as of late, damn injuries, we just see other teams progressing, and I feel TFC have stagnated somewhat.

[noxx98]

One thing that stood out to me on Bradley, was that the decision making wasn't where it needed to be. Thinking specifically about the time he lost the ball twice in a few seconds right at the edge of the box. I'm sure part of that is missing Osorio and Delgado who help do so much of the midfield lifting, but it felt like he wasn't making the right decisions quick enough.

[ag futbol]

Vanney was on the Caldwell, KJ & the other guy show about 6 weeks ago and said he would like to have done more rotation but you can't do that when you are fighting for the shield.

My issue is we seem to be always fighting for something - either the shield or to get into the playoffs.
I really can’t accept Vanney’s line of reasoning here. As years go by we all see success first and foremost as MLS Cup or CCL wins, I would prioritize those first. How motivated are the starters if the coach is willing to pile drive them into the ground for the name of a regular season game?

Agree we always seem to be fighting for something and I would argue we are sometimes too focused on the immediate task in front of us. My biggest gripe has always been our penchant for playing unexciting backup vets in the place of youth, arguably because the veterans are perceived as marginally better and more consistent with experience. You would hope if you played the kids and gave them the proper attention they would grow into something better and more useful than the other options.

But on the other hand we’ve had some good years. How happy would we all be if Jordan Hamilton missed a few sitters and we missed playoffs but had the “satisfaction” of seeing some of these guys start to hit their stride only to be sold to a team in Europe? Maybe that’s an extreme “all-or-nothing” thought process but it has crossed my mind.

[portu]

There’s too much dead money on this roster and we’ve played too well when fully fit this season for me to say Vanney is the issue. Ciman, Zavaleta, Bono, Mullins, Piatti, Gallardo, Jozy, even Bradley are all eating significant cash that could be used for better players.

I don’t buy blaming Vanney. I’d have sacked him halfway through 2019. But right now? This is not on Vanney at all. This is on Ali Curtis and the front office to rectify unreliable and over compensated players on the roster.

[Bushmancan]

I really can’t accept Vanney’s line of reasoning here. As years go by we all see success first and foremost as MLS Cup or CCL wins, I would prioritize those first. How motivated are the starters if the coach is willing to pile drive them into the ground for the name of a regular season game?

Agree we always seem to be fighting for something and I would argue we are sometimes too focused on the immediate task in front of us. My biggest gripe has always been our penchant for playing unexciting backup vets in the place of youth, arguably because the veterans are perceived as marginally better and more consistent with experience. You would hope if you played the kids and gave them the proper attention they would grow into something better and more useful than the other options.

But on the other hand we’ve had some good years. How happy would we all be if Jordan Hamilton missed a few sitters and we missed playoffs but had the “satisfaction” of seeing some of these guys start to hit their stride only to be sold to a team in Europe? Maybe that’s an extreme “all-or-nothing” thought process but it has crossed my mind.


Playing for the shield is winning a trophy... who knew where the league or season was going. If the payoffs blow up, at least he could have said we won the shield. We need points against Miami so Columbus can’t catch us. And if the shield is gone (likely is but not totally) rest players. Take a run for the Cup but at the very least qualify for Champions League and the season is not a total bust.

[Red CB Toronto]

Playing for the shield is winning a trophy... who knew where the league or season was going. If the payoffs blow up, at least he could have said we won the shield. We need points against Miami so Columbus can’t catch us. And if the shield is gone (likely is but not totally) rest players. Take a run for the Cup but at the very least qualify for Champions League and the season is not a total bust.

The game against Forge will be big regardless of how the rest of this season goes and on any given day the Reds should beat them. Playing Champions League football should always be the goal for this team.

[FootBallAZ]

I waited to share my opinion.

First I would like to remind everyone that, TFC is dealing with a lot more than normal. They havent had a home cooked meal and been able to play in their home stadium all season- This is very important to understand- as most games are really away.
Nelson looks like to be a player. I enjoyed him putting defenders on their heels and his deft touches were awesome.

Fraser is no good- I believe the goal scored was his fault- as he made a pass directly back to one of their players and I believe the play before he gave it away directly to them again.
Bradley- unfortunately doesnt look good, its nice to have him stand up for his players, but since he has returned- TFC's game has become predictable and stale. Bradley also had two terrible passes that killed momentum TFC was building.

Westerberg- I feel bad for him- and will def miss him when he is gone- yes he lets some goals in -but boy has he come in clutch and always makes huge saves 1 V. 1 somehow.

OG- only good for being tall- cant connect on headers from corners and is clumsy -Mavinga is so important

Ciman- too many risky challenges, not enough good passing from him.

Gallagher- looked bad- except for the last 10 minutes when he was going forward seemed to have some nice skill and some nice tight turns to escape the defenders.


Overall- Yes vanney and a lot of us shot ourselves in the foot talking about the shield pre-maturely.

Yes I have to question training session/tactics as it seems a lot of players get hurt on non-game days.
I have to blame vanney for running delgado and osario into the ground- when he could have strategically alternated between one of them while working bradley/frasher/DeLeon in the midfield.

How he didnt let Auro play last game when he wasnt going to play this game doesnt make sense.

Laryea -first time ive seen him make terrible passes in a row, no burst - should have been playing where morrow was playing -I do not get this.

Morrow- If Laryea was playing in morrow's position, I have no doubt in my mind that cross that he over shot pozo would have been made from Laryea.
Over the past three seasons- Ive seen morrow connect on one cross successfully and that seemed to be unintentional.
Ive numerous times TFC had numbers going down the left and morrow always would put the ball into the defenders feet, not even get the ball off the ground or miss the cross completely .

Pozuelo -least effective game- had a feeling if morrow got him that simple pass when it was like 3 on 1 he woulda made something happen.

Overall, have to question the line up the last three games and running our guys into the ground, Osorio, Delgado, and Mavinga(should know to treat him with kid gloves).

Yes we are missing some starters, however overall, nelson should have started with maybe shafelburg to create speed and should have swapped laryea and morrow , i really this alone would have changed the game and w

[jabbronies]

I waited to share my opinion.


we were without 8 starters. This isn't a European league where teams have another capable starting 11 sitting on their bench. There were many factors that played into yesterday's match that don't even include anything you mentioned above.

TFC is one of the very few team in MLS that could still be dominate without having 2/3 "star" players in the lineup

But to have 8 starters out - that is something we learned in 2018 - that even TFC can deal with.

Also - what's up with this? the guy is here for at least 2 more year:



Westerberg- I feel bad for him- and will def miss him when he is gone- yes he lets some goals in -but boy has he come in clutch and always makes huge saves 1 V. 1 somehow.

[MikeForbes]

The biggest thing we learnt from this game was who will not be touching the field come playoff time.

[jabbronies]

The biggest thing we learnt from this game was who will not be touching the field come playoff time.


if surrounded by starters - these are good players.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

There’s too much dead money on this roster and we’ve played too well when fully fit this season for me to say Vanney is the issue. Ciman, Zavaleta, Bono, Mullins, Piatti, Gallardo, Jozy, even Bradley are all eating significant cash that could be used for better players.

I don’t buy blaming Vanney. I’d have sacked him halfway through 2019. But right now? This is not on Vanney at all. This is on Ali Curtis and the front office to rectify unreliable and over compensated players on the roster.

Totally agree on all this!

[backbeat]

There’s too much dead money on this roster and we’ve played too well when fully fit this season for me to say Vanney is the issue. Ciman, Zavaleta, Bono, Mullins, Piatti, Gallardo, Jozy, even Bradley are all eating significant cash that could be used for better players.

I don’t buy blaming Vanney. I’d have sacked him halfway through 2019. But right now? This is not on Vanney at all. This is on Ali Curtis and the front office to rectify unreliable and over compensated players on the roster.

i agree - except for Piatti - i've quite liked his run of play and tenacity