You don't like your luck, you change it

[ensco]

This stuff about the refs last Sunday, the more I think about it, the more I think it's a sideshow.

1) We don't score for 80 minutes, and then
2) a 31 year old team leader doesn't seem to know that refs sometimes don't see the instigation, but only the retaliation (and blatantly retaliates in the box, to top it off), and then
3) the one guy who is sitting on a yellow decides he's got to be the one to take on the ref, taking us right out of the game completely

Then Carver decides the right response is to the above is to insult the refs by not shaking their hands. Memo to Carver - those refs will get future TFC games. Did Carver shake the hand of the ref who gave us the ridiculous penalty against SJ?

The refs made mistakes, but our response to that has been repeatedly childish.

It starts with Carver. I don't think he should be fired, but it's time for him to stand up. He's got the players he's got. Enough with the post game theatrics. Enough with the excuses.

You don't like your luck, you change it.

[adampz]

Word.

[The Oz]

I agree, it has to start with the coach, despite what has happened we still didn't score. Carver needs to seriously do something by honestly next game or I'm done with the season going anywhere. (I'll still watch and cheer of course but, no real chance of playoffs)

[Cashcleaner]

Carver is making a statement to the league with his latest actions. To be honest, it's all about the stuff we talk on here after every match. The difference is that Garber and Co. have no choice but to take notice of it, while we barely register on the minds of the league's top men.

There's no longer a diplomatic way of saying it: Officiating in MLS is a joke.

[ensco]

Carver is making a statement to the league with his latest actions. To be honest, it's all about the stuff we talk on here after every match. The difference is that Garber and Co. have no choice but to take notice of it, while we barely register on the minds of the league's top men.

There's no longer a diplomatic way of saying it: Officiating in MLS is a joke.

Not shaking the refs hand is no statement to the league. It's a statement (and a dumb one) to those refs.

If anyone's going to make public statements/gestures to the league on this, it should be ownership.

[rocker]

You don't like your luck, you change it.

but how would you do that?

Bruce Arena once said the whole league is about luck, due to parity.
of course that's when he was sucking and on the way out in NY.

[GabrielHurl]

3) the one guy who is sitting on a yellow decides he's got to be the one to take on the ref, taking us right out of the game completely

Brennan was on a yellow too

[JonO]

3) the one guy who is sitting on a yellow decides he's got to be the one to take on the ref, taking us right out of the game completely
This is the one that bugs me the most because we'll never know why that second yellow was issued, but players chirp at the refs all the time. The refs really need to be more consistant with that or at least walk up to the player and say "enough - next one is a yellow"

[Roogsy]

This stuff about the refs last Sunday, the more I think about it, the more I think it's a sideshow.

1) We don't score for 80 minutes, and then
2) a 31 year old team leader doesn't seem to know that refs sometimes don't see the instigation, but only the retaliation (and blatantly retaliates in the box, to top it off), and then
3) the one guy who is sitting on a yellow decides he's got to be the one to take on the ref, taking us right out of the game completely

Then Carver decides the right response is to the above is to insult the refs by not shaking their hands. Memo to Carver - those refs will get future TFC games. Did Carver shake the hand of the ref who gave us the ridiculous penalty against SJ?

The refs made mistakes, but our response to that has been repeatedly childish.

It starts with Carver. I don't think he should be fired, but it's time for him to stand up. He's got the players he's got. Enough with the post game theatrics. Enough with the excuses.

You don't like your luck, you change it.

I agree with pretty much everything here, especially about changing your own luck. At the end of the day, the team are the masters of their own destiny. Knowing that they are blowing it in the 2nd half, they should come out in the 1st half and score a goal, and an insurance goal, but lately, they haven't even been able to score 1. As soon as the half hits with a nil score, the chances of TFC losing grow exponentially.

Regarding Carver not shaking the Ref's hands...sorry but I don't agree. As much as our losing is really our own fault, the Ref's are just kicking us while we are down. And yeah, it sends a message to them that the team thinks their refereeing is shit. And if the team thinks so, it's only a matter of time before the league thinks so and there goes their lucrative weekend job. So I am glad Carver is making a stand on this issue, because frankly, I am tired of seeing the crappy job MLS referees do and somebody has to speak up since nobody is paying attention to the supporter's complaints.

[Mark in Ottawa]

There are two sides to the not shaking hand thing...

better to not approach the officials if you are likely to be "caught up in the moment" and make a comment which can only make it worse.

That being said a non threatening signal to the ref (open hand wave) acknowledges them while also sending the message that you have no interest in hearing their side of things. That is not an insult, just an admission of a difference of opinion.

[ensco]

Regarding Carver not shaking the Ref's hands...sorry but I don't agree. As much as our losing is really our own fault, the Ref's are just kicking us while we are down. And yeah, it sends a message to them that the team thinks their refereeing is shit. And if the team thinks so, it's only a matter of time before the league thinks so and there goes their lucrative weekend job. So I am glad Carver is making a stand on this issue, because frankly, I am tired of seeing the crappy job MLS referees do and somebody has to speak up since nobody is paying attention to the supporter's complaints.

If a ref's not up to it, it's not his fault, it's the league's fault. Get Peddie to call Garber.

Instead, doing it Carver's way, the message to your own team is:

"maintaining your discipline, no matter what someone else does, and showing class at all times, doesn't matter to me".

[ExiledRed]

Sorry Ensco,

We were nobbled again, and it's hardly like it was a one off .

The players and the coach are at breaking point, they are utterly frustrated, they have plenty going against them as it is, and the officials seem to be playing their own game.

You might think this officiating is acceptable, but I'll tell you.

I'd have been happier if the whole team walked off the pitch on Sunday and forfeited the season right there. You could tell they were thinking of it.
Shifting focus onto the players and Carver at this point, only serves to legitimise absolutely disgraceful, unprofessional, biased refereeing.

A message was sent to MLS last Sunday, mark my words.

[invictusTFC]

Sorry Ensco,

We were nobbled again, and it's hardly like it was a one off .

The players and the coach are at breaking point, they are utterly frustrated, they have plenty going against them as it is, and the officials seem to be playing their own game.

You might think this officiating is acceptable, but I'll tell you.

I'd have been happier if the whole team walked off the pitch on Sunday and forfeited the season right there. You could tell they were thinking of it.
Shifting focus onto the players and Carver at this point, only serves to legitimise absolutely disgraceful, unprofessional, biased refereeing.

A message was sent to MLS last Sunday, mark my words.

This is a league problem which means that all teams are victimized by this horrible officiating. TFC can not consistently use it as an excuse. As professionals you must be able to take the good with the bad and IMO this is starting to look like a sideshow. Carver is obviously frustrated and he wears his emotions on his sleeve, but one has to ask himself if the way he he reacting game in and game out helping the team.

He's called out his players in the media, and they haven't responded. He seems to be banking on the teams lack of strikers as the single reason the team is under-performing. But is it?

Lately all I see out there is a completely dysfunctional team. They have no real apparent system. They don't seem to be playing to their strengths and I wonder if JC is even playing a system that is suited to the players he has. Carver has to take some responsibility. I've defended him to this point, but with every passing game all I see are excuses and a coach who falls apart at the seems when the heat is turned up.

[v00d00daddy]

Sorry Ensco,

We were nobbled again, and it's hardly like it was a one off .

The players and the coach are at breaking point, they are utterly frustrated, they have plenty going against them as it is, and the officials seem to be playing their own game.

You might think this officiating is acceptable, but I'll tell you.

I'd have been happier if the whole team walked off the pitch on Sunday and forfeited the season right there. You could tell they were thinking of it.
Shifting focus onto the players and Carver at this point, only serves to legitimise absolutely disgraceful, unprofessional, biased refereeing.

A message was sent to MLS last Sunday, mark my words.

Wow. First of all, the focus should have been on the players from the beginning of the match. They gave away two points before any of this garbage happened.

Secondly, the idea of TFC walking off the pitch is laughable. "I'm taking my ball and going home". The players are frustrated because they're playing like shit. The officiating is just the straw that broke the camels back. It's not like we were up two goals and giving Dallas a beating. The ref took nothing away from TFC. We gave the game to the ref and said:

"Here you go, there's nothing we can do with it. See how much you can fuck it up." And he did.

[ensco]

Sorry Ensco,

We were nobbled again, and it's hardly like it was a one off .

The players and the coach are at breaking point, they are utterly frustrated, they have plenty going against them as it is, and the officials seem to be playing their own game.

You might think this officiating is acceptable, but I'll tell you.

I'd have been happier if the whole team walked off the pitch on Sunday and forfeited the season right there. You could tell they were thinking of it.
Shifting focus onto the players and Carver at this point, only serves to legitimise absolutely disgraceful, unprofessional, biased refereeing.

A message was sent to MLS last Sunday, mark my words.

You may think a message was sent to MLS, but I don't. I see nothing on this on Ives' or Goff's boards. Bigsoccer has nothing except the anguish of TFC supporters on the TFC board.

I don't think the refs are biased, I think they're just bad. We have been occasional beneficiaries (both PKs we've been given we're pretty questionable).

Of all the controversial calls against us, the diving yellows against Edu and Ibbe in Chicago were the only ones that were truly ridiculous for me. I hope that ref got suspended. Most of the rest had a least a smidgen of merit, even if I/we disagree on whether the foul or call was right.

[CoachGT]

Of all the controversial calls against us, the diving yellows against Edu and Ibbe in Chicago were the only ones that were truly ridiculous for me. I hope that ref got suspended. Most of the rest had a least a smidgen of merit, even if I/we disagree on whether the foul or call was right.

And therein lies the real problem - the refs are not held accountable for their actions, at least, in any way visible to the public (which may not matter) or, apparently, to the teams either (which should matter).

Several MLS coaches have been disciplined for their comments about officiating this year, and those actions have been made public. Do we know if any officials have been disciplined?

[ExiledRed]

Wow. First of all, the focus should have been on the players from the beginning of the match. They gave away two points before any of this garbage happened.

Secondly, the idea of TFC walking off the pitch is laughable. "I'm taking my ball and going home". The players are frustrated because they're playing like shit. The officiating is just the straw that broke the camels back. It's not like we were up two goals and giving Dallas a beating. The ref took nothing away from TFC. We gave the game to the ref and said:

"Here you go, there's nothing we can do with it. See how much you can fuck it up." And he did.

I know fine well that they wouldn't and shouldn't walk off the pitch, I'm just saying I would have been happier if they did, because staying only legitimised the lunacy that was taking place.

I'd like to add that although we did not score for the 79 minutes or so before the incident, neither did Dallas. The end result was a sham.

[ExiledRed]

Of all the controversial calls against us, the diving yellows against Edu and Ibbe in Chicago were the only ones that were truly ridiculous for me. I hope that ref got suspended. Most of the rest had a least a smidgen of merit, even if I/we disagree on whether the foul or call was right.

Its not just about controversial calls, it's about the imbalance of calls and non calls too.

Remeber the Columbus Crew diving all over the pitch and winning the fouls? Notice how many calls go against us and how many times we have been carded for 'trickery' in comparison to our opponents.

Look at the penalty calls we get called against us, and the number of times we have had players bought down in the box only to have the 'play on' signal waved at us.

How many legitimate goals have been disallowed?

And lets not forget Depiero, who's refereeing was absolutely comical, and although he was refereeing a CSA game the guy just happens to be an MLS official too. Go figure.

[Captain Croatia]

Its not just about controversial calls, it's about the imbalance of calls and non calls too.

Remeber the Columbus Crew diving all over the pitch and winning the fouls? Notice how many calls go against us and how many times we have been carded for 'trickery' in comparison to our opponents.

Look at the penalty calls we get called against us, and the number of times we have had players bought down in the box only to have the 'play on' signal waved at us.

How many legitimate goals have been disallowed?

And lets not forget Depiero, who's refereeing was absolutely comical, and although he was refereeing a CSA game the guy just happens to be an MLS official too. Go figure.

QFT

It's because we're Canadian. Seriously.:noidea:

The referee's are criminals.

[Rawkus_420]

its not carvers fault we cant score, he work wiht what he ha, the change that should be made is some signings, if you fire ppl now, we will just be backpedalling, we are making steps to improve(trying to sign ppl so cunny doesnt have to play), and then need for a defender is known. I say the problem lies with MO and the lack of signings....but if you guys want to se the organization back and enjoy some more dismal seasons then either fire carver, if that happens they better have a more qualified person in mind.

[ensco]

And lets not forget Depiero, who's refereeing was absolutely comical, and although he was refereeing a CSA game the guy just happens to be an MLS official too. Go figure.

That call on Brennan was a joke too, and the Cunny goal disallowed was tough, but even if the Vancouver game had ended in a draw, we'd still have gone out

[jloome]

You may think a message was sent to MLS, but I don't. I see nothing on this on Ives' or Goff's boards. Bigsoccer has nothing except the anguish of TFC supporters on the TFC board.

I don't think the refs are biased, I think they're just bad. We have been occasional beneficiaries (both PKs we've been given we're pretty questionable).

Of all the controversial calls against us, the diving yellows against Edu and Ibbe in Chicago were the only ones that were truly ridiculous for me. I hope that ref got suspended. Most of the rest had a least a smidgen of merit, even if I/we disagree on whether the foul or call was right.

Dude, it made the front page of Bilde, a huge national newspaper in Germany. MLS, like any large business, has a clippings service. I guarantee you, they know all about it.

[stretchthetruth]

Dude, it made the front page of Bilde, a huge national newspaper in Germany. MLS, like any large business, has a clippings service. I guarantee you, they know all about it.


Whoa, really? Is there a link?

[giambac]

This stuff about the refs last Sunday, the more I think about it, the more I think it's a sideshow.

1) We don't score for 80 minutes, and then
2) a 31 year old team leader doesn't seem to know that refs sometimes don't see the instigation, but only the retaliation (and blatantly retaliates in the box, to top it off), and then
3) the one guy who is sitting on a yellow decides he's got to be the one to take on the ref, taking us right out of the game completely

Then Carver decides the right response is to the above is to insult the refs by not shaking their hands. Memo to Carver - those refs will get future TFC games. Did Carver shake the hand of the ref who gave us the ridiculous penalty against SJ?

The refs made mistakes, but our response to that has been repeatedly childish.

It starts with Carver. I don't think he should be fired, but it's time for him to stand up. He's got the players he's got. Enough with the post game theatrics. Enough with the excuses.

You don't like your luck, you change it.

I can't figure out why everyone continues to blame the refs.

I was at the game and the problem isn't the refs but the fact we can't score. The PK came in the 80th minute and last i checked, hitting an opponent in the face is a red card. Guevera may have been instigated but he is a professional and should know better.

The bigger problem is our offence. We simply can't score and if you don't score you aren't going to win.

When was the alst time TFC won at home? When was the last time TFC scored at home in a league match? Last TFC win at home was on June 14th vs Colorado. It was also the last time they scored at home in a league match.

The thing about bad mouthing the ref and the league will come back to haunt both Carver and TFC. Nothing good can come out of disrespecting a ref. Let me tell you something. You never forget. The group of referees are like a family. I'm fairly certain the word has gotten out amonst the other MLS refs on what happened at the end of the match. I just hope they aren't all going to be against us next time.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

CARVERs fault..now that funny!....he has what he has....a half decent team....with F'all strikers who cant hit the twine!! we lack goal scorers! thats it!


if we had signed hucks ....problem solved....but we didnt...so the problem remains the same.....

Im starting to think Nobody wants to sign here......do you think MO hasnt been busy....he just cantget anyone to come in...for some unknown reason....Turf has been one reason.!..what else could it be...ML$E refusing to use a DP?? GOMEZ?

I dunno...im fed up...

BUt i know for FACt..with the strikers we have up front as of today....we will never make the playoffs in MLS!

[ExiledRed]

I can't figure out why everyone continues to blame the refs.

I was at the game and the problem isn't the refs but the fact we can't score. The PK came in the 80th minute and last i checked, hitting an opponent in the face is a red card. Guevera may have been instigated but he is a professional and should know better.

The bigger problem is our offence. We simply can't score and if you don't score you aren't going to win.

When was the alst time TFC won at home? When was the last time TFC scored at home in a league match? Last TFC win at home was on June 14th vs Colorado. It was also the last time they scored at home in a league match.

The thing about bad mouthing the ref and the league will come back to haunt both Carver and TFC. Nothing good can come out of disrespecting a ref. Let me tell you something. You never forget. The group of referees are like a family. I'm fairly certain the word has gotten out amonst the other MLS refs on what happened at the end of the match. I just hope they aren't all going to be against us next time.

I'm not blaming the ref because we didnt win, Im blaming him for the loss.

At best our team is above average in this league.
Take away a few players for whatever reason and we become average. Then fuck us up the arse when we are clinging on for dear life anyway and we are inevitably going to lose against the poorest opposition.

We are not a winning team right now by any stretch, but I do think we'd have a few more points where it not for the poor officiating, and those points are going to make all the difference at the end of the day.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Exactly!

I mean, I know we're in a slump and there's plenty of blame to go around in the locker room. But when we're dealing with all the internal difficulties, it certainly doesn't help matters when the league and its official seem bent on holding us back even more. Like you said, bad officiating could have led to a win instead of a draw, or a draw instead of a loss. Over the course of the season, all that can add up.