MLSisBack Game 1 - TFC Vs DCU - I'm Dreaming Dreams, I'm Schemng Schemes

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6SXi4I47Qw


In theory, this game is Friday 10 July @ 8pm but that is likely to change


******************

Have at It People

[MikeForbes]

Probably see some heavy squad rotation with the three group stage games being jammed into a 11 day span. A debut for Pablo Piatti should be in the works for Friday (or whenever the first game is) though.

[Smokecell]

Disclaimer - given that Nashville's game is still not postponed and as of writing is still scheduled for tomorrow it may be prudent to refrain from making any concrete plans for this one. Game time could change last second at this rate. Nashville is, or at least should be, a guarantee for postponement if not removal from the tournament.

[OgtheDim]

Yup, I left the date & time off the title for a reason

The game tomorrow night with Orlando & Miami is a go but everything else after that is up in the air.

[Bushmancan]

Interesting song to lead us into the tournament.....

[OgtheDim]

Game time & date officially switched

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1280545698098884608

[MikeForbes]

Lame. Don't expect many DPs to start for either side now.

Shaff-Mullins-Endoh

Osorio-Delgado-Fraser

Morrow-Zavaleta-Romeo-Laryea

Bono

[OgtheDim]

We won't see a B squad but I suspect some rotation in the second half.

A reminder:

this game is worth points in the supposed MLS reboot schedule for 2020 - that's the MLS restart schedule that is going to be only 20 games. Tanking this tournament requires you to be willing to go on the equivalent of a 5 game losing streak.

[613reppingTFC]

however...I believe only the first 3 round robin games count towards the standings...so if you tank the tournament you would only be on a 3 game losing streak...right?

[Smokecell]

however...I believe only the first 3 round robin games count towards the standings...so if you tank the tournament you would only be on a 3 game losing streak...right?

I think he’s pro-rating the weight of a loss based on a 20 game season vs 34.

9AM pints anyone??

[OgtheDim]

I think he’s pro-rating the weight of a loss based on a 20 game season vs 34.

9AM pints anyone??

Yup on both counts - might do mimosas though.

[James17930]

Game time & date officially switched

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1280545698098884608

Yay! I can watch it now.

[SoccMan2]

All games should be serious affairs group games because the first 3 count in the standings and if you advance you want to try and win that Champions League spot.

[Ultra & Proud]

All games should be serious affairs group games because the first 3 count in the standings and if you advance you want to try and win that Champions League spot.
MLS ever say what will happen to Dallas and presumably Nashville if they don't play any of these matches? Three 3-0 losses or are they going to try to make it up somehow later?

[Joe Kool]

MLS ever say what will happen to Dallas and presumably Nashville if they don't play any of these matches? Three 3-0 losses or are they going to try to make it up somehow later?

They said they will make it up for them so they don't miss the regular season games because of missing the tourney. That is where I think this thing is a mess because what about the teams that play with less players but not enough to drop out of the tourney....they can't possibly even the playing field for every scenario. Maybe some teams without 5 players especially key ones would like to opt to not compete if given the option and also make up the 3 games the way Dallas is going. What about teams that start the tourney but then get more results as it goes....what then. I am glad I don't have to figure it all out because there is probably no scenario that makes everything even or makes every team happy.

Also, how do you make up season games for one team? Does that mean they play teams that are essentially having an exhibition game because it only counts for Dallas?

[MightyDM]

They said they will make it up for them so they don't miss the regular season games because of missing the tourney. That is where I think this thing is a mess because what about the teams that play with less players but not enough to drop out of the tourney....they can't possibly even the playing field for every scenario. Maybe some teams without 5 players especially key ones would like to opt to not compete if given the option and also make up the 3 games the way Dallas is going. What about teams that start the tourney but then get more results as it goes....what then. I am glad I don't have to figure it all out because there is probably no scenario that makes everything even or makes every team happy.

Also, how do you make up season games for one team? Does that mean they play teams that are essentially having an exhibition game because it only counts for Dallas?

There won't be a regular season. They know it. thats the only way this makes sense

[rydermike]

They said they will make it up for them so they don't miss the regular season games because of missing the tourney. That is where I think this thing is a mess because what about the teams that play with less players but not enough to drop out of the tourney....they can't possibly even the playing field for every scenario. Maybe some teams without 5 players especially key ones would like to opt to not compete if given the option and also make up the 3 games the way Dallas is going. What about teams that start the tourney but then get more results as it goes....what then. I am glad I don't have to figure it all out because there is probably no scenario that makes everything even or makes every team happy.

Also, how do you make up season games for one team? Does that mean they play teams that are essentially having an exhibition game because it only counts for Dallas?There's probably a way to work it out so that they can fill in matches to make it. USL is restarting their season and teams had played 1,2, or 3 games. They will all play equal at the end. Given Nashville and Dallas will both be down 3 games, they'll probably play twice or thrice against each other in tournament make-up games, probably between the end of the group stage and the finals.

[OgtheDim]

Assuming DCU plays Benny ball against us & parks the bus, this is going to be another exercise in "can anybody but Jozy threaten to score". Bill Hamid is a keeper who can stand on his head for 90 minutes - but he makes one bonehead play every game.

We have to be organized, move the ball quickly, attack them in wide areas & shoot the dang ball when given the option.

We are the better team, with more depth. We should be winning this one.

[Joe Kool]

Assuming DCU plays Benny ball against us & parks the bus, this is going to be another exercise in "can anybody but Jozy threaten to score". Bill Hamid is a keeper who can stand on his head for 90 minutes - but he makes one bonehead play every game.

We have to be organized, move the ball quickly, attack them in wide areas & shoot the dang ball when given the option.

We are the better team, with more depth. We should be winning this one.

Yeah I think they will play the park the bus and counter approach for this one. It almost worked in the playoffs for them until TFC went on their OT run of goals. DC will be very happy letting us pass the ball around the perimeter of their half but we need to find a way to penetrate to get some decent shots on Hamid. I think if we can get an early goal DC could lose the mentality pretty fast with "here we go again" because some of their players are still talking about last year's loss in the playoffs as if it is still a fresh wound for them. I have more confidence that the current TFC group can find a way to break the bunker. In the old days bunker is all teams had to do to TFC and TFC had no answers.

I really hope we get to see what Piatti brings to the table with his price tag and DP spot. Aside from seeing the team play again that is my main thing I am looking forward to. Hopefully we are not disappointed.

[Red CB Toronto]

The biggest thing here for me is about getting their feet back under them after being off for so long and to be honest without Jozy on the pitch this team is completely different, it lacks something. I will be interested to see if Piatti makes his debut.


Assuming DCU plays Benny ball against us & parks the bus, this is going to be another exercise in "can anybody but Jozy threaten to score". Bill Hamid is a keeper who can stand on his head for 90 minutes - but he makes one bonehead play every game.

We have to be organized, move the ball quickly, attack them in wide areas & shoot the dang ball when given the option.

We are the better team, with more depth. We should be winning this one.

[Defoe]

Lame. Don't expect many DPs to start for either side now.

Shaff-Mullins-Endoh

Osorio-Delgado-Fraser

Morrow-Zavaleta-Romeo-Laryea

Bono

Yuck that looks like a 2014 tier lineup. If that’s the lineup I can’t watch. I know the exact standard I can tolerate now vs what I can’t. I know my threshold lol Once you get into the Zav’s and Shaff’s it becomes unwatchable.

[Red CB Toronto]

One hour to kickoff, its go time for the three points. Lets knockout DCU.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ect_ocvX0AALbJ6?format=jpg&name=medium

[Red CB Toronto]

Time to wake up, its a TFC Day.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1282285486338383872
https://twitter.com/i/status/1282285486338383872

[613reppingTFC]

Come on you reds! Here we go, it's almost game time

[OgtheDim]

Kickoff likely 9:20 (cause ESPN or whomever habitually needs that 20 minutes to talk about things)

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1282288113633628160



And so it begins

[TFC1986]

Anyone have any good ideas for breakfast and TFC this morning

[Red CB Toronto]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcuaY3sXgAEdLRB?format=jpg&name=large

[OgtheDim]

Jozy not even in the 23

[Red CB Toronto]

Just like the World Cup, 23 available players, 12 subs on the bench.

[Red CB Toronto]

A delay, TFC has yet to arrive at the pitch.

[ensco]

Jozy not even in the 23

I predicted he wouldn't show for the tournament. Thought I was wrong, but maybe not, maybe he is just keeping it quiet.

Also OK who am I kidding. I surrender. I will watch.

[OgtheDim]

TSN saying game has been delayed "a significant period of time" - no explanation yet DCU at the ground, TFC not yet.

Nobody mentioning weather

[OgtheDim]

OH SHIT

https://twitter.com/mattpyzdrowski/status/1282291017732022272

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/mattpyzdrowski/status/1282291019636183041

[OgtheDim]

Praying for a false positive

[Red CB Toronto]

https://twitter.com/mattpyzdrowski/status/1282291019636183041

Wonder if they will fine the Reds, this is crazy, multiple tests now.

[rydermike]

Game postponed per KJ on twitter
https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1282293639343943682

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider/status/1282295445704908800


Must not speculate ....must not speculate but....holy shit.

***

Goff is on site, BTW.

[AlanO]

This tournament is idiotic.

Bring them home.

[613reppingTFC]

I can't imagine (if they are even thinking of playing this game) that they will want to postpone the game and have to play in the mid day heat...none of this is worth all the trouble..they shouldn't have re-started without all the teams

[Red CB Toronto]

https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider/status/1282295445704908800


Must not speculate ....must not speculate but....holy shit.



***

Goff is on site, BTW.

Interesting that Steve is on the ground at Disney, anyone there from Toronto, maybe Buffery?

[James17930]

FFS

Too many variables.

[PaceyWinger]

MLS can spin this that the bubble is working because they caught a positive case, but that proves only that testing works. It does nothing to suggest the bubble is worth anything. You've got most of the league as sitting ducks in one of the worst spots for this virus in the world right now. Not a good look just so you can use an ok sports facility with Cameras setup.

[Red CB Toronto]

Its apparently an inconclusive test for TFC, a positive one for DC. If the spread is within the bubble this tourney is over. But there is now a chance this could be played at 8 pm tonight. Will be interesting to see how this day develops. This entire thing is built on trust.

[Red CB Toronto]

This could be the beginning of the end.

https://www.investopedia.com/thmb/PiJZANePSnI3p_Nu87k_M-nVU58=/3630x2592/filters:fill(auto,1)/GettyImages-184064999-5bcf59682a854718a39f9a7430268add.jpg

[rydermike]

https://twitter.com/RudiSchuller/status/1282300665956634626

If the SKC game tonight gets cancelled too, then this tournament will surely be over, right?

[Inklink]

Damn it. Will we ever get to see them play.

[Auzzy]

MLS can spin this that the bubble is working because they caught a positive case, but that proves only that testing works. It does nothing to suggest the bubble is worth anything. You've got most of the league as sitting ducks in one of the worst spots for this virus in the world right now. Not a good look just so you can use an ok sports facility with Cameras setup.

In addition to all the other issues -- I'm just not sure that the testing is even working. I haven't heard anywhere near the number of "inconclusive" tests, positive/negative tests and back again, and similar incongruities, in the Bundesliga, EPL, or the other major leagues that have restarted. Is that just because the virus growth is uncontrolled in the US, so with more of the disease in the wild, you get more crazy testing results? And/or does the testing company or other testing details for MLS just plain suck?

Fuck this shit. I bought the TSN Direct 1-month subscription shortly before 9am.

[ManUtd4ever]

This is very unfortunate. I'm obviously very disappointed, but there are much bigger issues at play. Fingers crossed that this situation gets sorted out and is under control.

[OgtheDim]

That SKC game is not getting cancelled, apparently. They arrived on the 5th - likely a case brought along with. SKC just going to hope nobody got it from that guy.

BIGGER issue - if the DCU test is confirmed positive, that is possibly an infection from within the bubble - DCU arrived on July 3rd.

If they didn't test them on the 10th (7 days), then could have been brought in. But, my Gawd, that means anybody on that team could have it.


What MLS is completely missing is this

Person x gets Covid

Person x can test negative for 7 days while Covid incubates

During that period, Covid can be transmitted by person x to person y


Person y can test negative for 7 days


And so it goes


Once you have a person within the bubble with Covid, all people who contacted should be quarantined for 7 days

Otherwise, Covid will spread.


MLS did not have the 7 day quarantine for each team (mistake) & does not have a quarantine now in response to positive tests due to somebody bringing it with them


*********

Speculation is MLS & DCU wanted to play this game regardless. TFC completely refused.

[Ultra & Proud]

I haven't heard anywhere near the number of "inconclusive" tests, positive/negative tests and back again, and similar incongruities, in the Bundesliga, EPL, or the other major leagues that have restarted. Is that just because the virus growth is uncontrolled in the US, so with more of the disease in the wild, you get more crazy testing results? And/or does the testing company or other testing details for MLS just plain suck?

They probably use the quick tests most often, like pregame and for random testing but those have a lot of inconclusive results. Depending on who made them, they can be junk. I assume now they've been swabbed and they're getting lab tested. That's the only accurate way to do it but it takes longer. I don't see this match happening tonight at 8pm either. That's a lot of tests to do this afternoon.

[rydermike]

Speculation is MLS & DCU wanted to play this game regardless. TFC completely refused.

Which seems perfectly in line with them delaying their arrival due to concerns and precautions AND pulling TFCII out of USL1 rather than having players travel all over the USA (for a D3 league - I'm not sure what precautions that league is taking, but as a D3 league, how much money do they have to even put in place protocols).

While I really wanted to finally be able to see our team play again, I'm extremely proud of our team not caving in to money and other shenanigans

[gracos]

This was the lineup for our club if game were to be played before the postponement, little curious if Altidore is healthy why he wasnt even put on the bench, i know Altidore was late to arrive back to Toronto, but to be not even on the bench seems a little suspect to me

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1282288357633073152

[flambe]

Some of these games account for season points and standings, no? So if a team has a positive case and have to pull out, they get no points in the season. Is that correct? I’m thoroughly confused by all of this.

[rydermike]

Some of these games account for season points and standings, no? So if a team has a positive case and have to pull out, they get no points in the season. Is that correct? I’m thoroughly confused by all of this.

Only the group games count. Teams that pull out would supposedly play the 3 make up games at some point. Early reports were Dallas and Nashville would probably play multiple make up games against each other since they would both be short 3 games due to not participating

[PaceyWinger]

Only the group games count. Teams that pull out would supposedly play the 3 make up games at some point. Early reports were Dallas and Nashville would probably play multiple make up games against each other since they would both be short 3 games due to not participating

Like a Tournament B Pool. We will see how many more teams enter that pool before all is said and done. Yikes.

[Auzzy]

I think the whole "group games count towards the regular season" or whatever, is a complete joke anyway. If they can't play games consistently with all the teams "in the bubble" how the hell do they expect to continue with the regular season afterwards? Nothing in the way the disease is spreading in the US, and the reactions to that, tell me that things will be remotely stable in a month or two.

[ag futbol]

This tournament is idiotic.

Bring them home.
Agreed, enough already. The league is embarrassing itself.

[Ultra & Proud]

This was the lineup for our club if game were to be played before the postponement, little curious if Altidore is healthy why he wasnt even put on the bench, i know Altidore was late to arrive back to Toronto, but to be not even on the bench seems a little suspect to me

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1282288357633073152

Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.

[OgtheDim]

I think the whole "group games count towards the regular season" or whatever, is a complete joke anyway. If they can't play games consistently with all the teams "in the bubble" how the hell do they expect to continue with the regular season afterwards? Nothing in the way the disease is spreading in the US, and the reactions to that, tell me that things will be remotely stable in a month or two.

The Fox boys were all last night on about "how the regular season is coming back in August".

Baseball is going to be the test for that - starts up next weekend.

[ensco]

Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.

I think the odds are pretty high that there is another explanation for his absence, and the Jozy is being asked not to be vocal about the true reasons.

[PaceyWinger]

Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.

This may be completely irresponsible speculation, but if he had the virus during the shutdown, it could explain why he was delayed getting back to training, and is so far behind everyone else when he did return. Also could explain why the team was willing to let a DP not use the 4 month layoff to not get ready for a tournament.

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC did the right thing. No sense in rushing a game that could have dire consequences for many involved.

[Oldtimer]

I think the whole "group games count towards the regular season" or whatever, is a complete joke anyway. If they can't play games consistently with all the teams "in the bubble" how the hell do they expect to continue with the regular season afterwards? Nothing in the way the disease is spreading in the US, and the reactions to that, tell me that things will be remotely stable in a month or two.

This is a key point.

I think that they did their plans expecting that the disease would die down over summer (which it has somewhat in Canada).

However the premature and ill advised reopening plans in much of the US, lack of compliance over physical distancing, and people believing weird conspiracy theories and refusing to wear masks, has led to an almost out of control situation south of the border.

MLS needs to give up on the season period. The billionaires can take a tax write off and hope that a vaccine is out in time for next year.

[ensco]

The US sports leagues saw European leagues reopen pretty early and decided that was the template.

I think, to be fair, nobody had totally realized (or internalized) the degree of societal breakdown/disorder in the US. It’s shocking. They are a failed state. Literally a hundred countries in the world have a better ability to implement a pandemic solution.

I never thought this tournament made sense, but my reasons were economic (no reward for the risk). I am not feeling good about the actual reasons why it isn’t working.

[James17930]

Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.

He was working out every day, but there's a difference between that and actual on field training with the team.

[Bushmancan]

The US sports leagues saw European leagues reopen pretty early and decided that was the template.

I think, to be fair, nobody had totally realized (or internalized) the degree of societal breakdown/disorder in the US. It’s shocking. They are a failed state. Literally a hundred countries in the world have a better ability to implement a pandemic solution.

I never thought this tournament made sense, but my reasons were economic (no reward for the risk). I am not feeling good about the actual reasons why it isn’t working.


Mostly agree, especially the US comment. TFC actually looked good refusing to even leave their hotel this morning.

1) I think the economic one was if done correctly it was an opportunity for MLS to grab some spotlight (NBA, NHL & even NFL) had no real plans announced. It was also a hail mary to try to keep the season alive, they depend so much on ticket sales.

2) Being on the Disney Campus was actually smart considering the parks weren't open at the time and they should have had a better opportunity to bubble the players, plenty of hotels and secluded facilities...
2a) but stupid because they must have known that the Parks would be reopening. (Yesterday in fact)

3) And most importantly, they knew the Florida Governor was a dufus (not a political statement, just pure fact). Telling people to live normally and not wear masks.

4) The heat would be stifling but the staggered times was at least an approach. Speaking of which, didn't they say they thought Covid would go away with the heat... I guess they were proven wrong on that as well.

5) We were all starved for sports so anything was better than nothing and they would get viewership. Btw.. the players agreed to do this as well.

Anyways, I think they are either going to implode with this thing or cross your fingers, a miracle happens and Florida smartens up ... even though the state won't mandate mandatory masks... Orange County which includes Orlando does have a requirement... "Orange County: Every person working, living or visiting Orange County, which includes the city of Orlando, must wear a face mask in public starting at 12:01 a.m. Saturday, June 20 (https://www.orangecountyfl.net/Portals/0/Library/Emergency-Safety/docs/coronavirus/2020-23%20EEO.pdf)."

I agree it is not worth risking a players career, so keeping fingers crossed.

[OgtheDim]

The short term get it in and done bubble approach made sense when every area in North America was in the same boat - lockdown but only NY in serious trouble. If we were in the situation like April when all this started to be planned, it would be weird but feel less dire and would probably be less risky. And, at that time, as Oldtimer said, speculation was it would all die down by now.

Once it became probable in mid May that many parts of the US were going to have full outbreaks & this would be happening while social distancing lockdowns were actively discouraged by some local governments, the smart & healthy thing to do would have been to look at a longer term approach, like the NBA. MLS has two compelling interests to ignore that - TV revenue (now shared with the players and thus why they went along with it) & owners thinking they might still get a season in.

Once areas started to open up & covid surged again (it never went away from any part of the US), the short term bubble approach became untenable. But the momentum continued.

My thoughts, until today, were it was possible to maintain a bubble if smart protocols were followed. Seems they were not put into place, partly because everybody balked at the length of time players would be away from home.

Now, today, we are seeing people choosing to play even though they were in contact with somebody who had covid & might have the disease themselves. Teams & players have been put into a mental position where some of them feel their need to play is more important then their need to be safe.

TFC seems to be the only group down there with any grasp of the severity of what the heck is actually involved. I don't know if that is player driven, management driven or what - but somehow, this group figured out that the right thing right now may not always be football.

We will see what happens with the rechecks today. If that DCU player is positive, the game should not go on. I would hope an honest risk assessment is somebody training with you in a contact sport is putting you at serious risk. That doesn't seem to be what SKC is doing though.

***********************

That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.

[ensco]

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — Florida on Sunday reported the largest single-day increase in positive coronavirus cases in any one state since the beginning of the pandemic.

https://apnews.com/798f9aab3bb2e5fbf733413a99476d7c (https://apnews.com/798f9aab3bb2e5fbf733413a99476d7c)

[MightyDM]

Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.

he had to quarantine after returning to Toronto for 14 days so missed training.

[Red CB Toronto]

We are now seeing some doubt if the Blue Jays will even be allowed to play their regular season games at the dome now with reports now suggesting that Buffalo could be their home base. I totally get why the Ontario government is uneasy with teams coming in an out of the US to play here. MLS is hoping none of these positive tests are being spread within the complex, plus now Disney is open to the public. This has disaster written all over it. Time to come home our Reds, rather you be safe and sound here.


The short term get it in and done bubble approach made sense when every area in North America was in the same boat - lockdown but only NY in serious trouble. If we were in the situation like April when all this started to be planned, it would be weird but feel less dire and would probably be less risky. And, at that time, as Oldtimer said, speculation was it would all die down by now.

Once it became probable in mid May that many parts of the US were going to have full outbreaks & this would be happening while social distancing lockdowns were actively discouraged by some local governments, the smart & healthy thing to do would have been to look at a longer term approach, like the NBA. MLS has two compelling interests to ignore that - TV revenue (now shared with the players and thus why they went along with it) & owners thinking they might still get a season in.

Once areas started to open up & covid surged again (it never went away from any part of the US), the short term bubble approach became untenable. But the momentum continued.

My thoughts, until today, were it was possible to maintain a bubble if smart protocols were followed. Seems they were not put into place, partly because everybody balked at the length of time players would be away from home.

Now, today, we are seeing people choosing to play even though they were in contact with somebody who had covid & might have the disease themselves. Teams & players have been put into a mental position where some of them feel their need to play is more important then their need to be safe.

TFC seems to be the only group down there with any grasp of the severity of what the heck is actually involved. I don't know if that is player driven, management driven or what - but somehow, this group figured out that the right thing right now may not always be football.

We will see what happens with the rechecks today. If that DCU player is positive, the game should not go on. I would hope an honest risk assessment is somebody training with you in a contact sport is putting you at serious risk. That doesn't seem to be what SKC is doing though.

***********************

That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.

[Rocket Robin]

Noticed no Canadian starters.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcuaY3sXgAEdLRB?format=jpg&name=large

[Auzzy]

That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.

I have no idea how UPS managed things in that location, before and after the positive tests. From what I've seen and heard, some companies manage things pretty well wrt. COVID-19 risks; some don't. I also see the measures that are being put into place at UofT, within the longstanding framework of Health & Safety. (Although even within UofT, the measures seem to vary between groups and departments. In our department, we have a history of significant risks from lab work and other environments. Our Health & Safety procedures have a tradition and have teeth, and will hopefully also work for the pandemic.)

I.e. beforehand at UPS and other companies:
1) Were they minimizing close contact between workers; keeping workers in stable "cohorts;" other hygiene measures; and keeping good records of where close contact happened anyway?
2) Were they regularly & proactively testing at least some within risky environments?
3) After first positive tests, were they able to quickly use info from 1) to contain and test all that were at risk; disinfect affected areas; and quarantine as necessary?

Within MLS bubble, 1) is pretty much out the window due to full team training, tight locker rooms, probable interaction within each team at the hotels, interaction with physio and trainers, etc. (That's in addition to possible bubble leaks via resort & hotel workers that go in & out of the Florida COVID swamp -- 15,300 positive results in one day.)

So MLS is really not comparable to any well-run company. MLS is much close to the migrant agricultural worker scenario. (And BC was even able to manage that risk much better.)

[Red CB Toronto]

Noticed no Canadian starters.

Its about putting the best you have out there and that is what matters. This is a results based business.

[rydermike]

Noticed no Canadian starters.

Well Akinola is technically eligible for the Canadian national team, so maybe we should claim it as 0.5 starters.

[Red CB Toronto]

Florida shatters single-day coronavirus record with more than 15,000 new cases, on the other hand Ontario has 129 new cases. There is only one choice here, come home you Reds.

[Smokecell]

FWIW Reports coming in that both tests have returned negative

[gracos]

FWIW Reports coming in that both tests have returned negative

What are your sources to back this up??

[Red CB Toronto]

What are your sources to back this up??

Steve Goff on twitter

[Red CB Toronto]

Steven Goff

@SoccerInsider

(https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider)
15m (https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider/status/1282389924944252929)


MLS looking to play the D.C. United v Toronto FC match Monday morning, person close to the situation says. Both effected players have tested negative, but a second consecutive negative test is needed. More details to come ...

Steven Goff

@SoccerInsider
(https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider)·
5m (https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider/status/1282392526092210183)

Current MLS schedule -- and who knows when it will change again -- has two matches tonight and two matches Monday night. Playing Monday morning, however, would force a change to Toronto's Wednesday match vs Montreal. DCU's next game is Thursday vs NE.

[gracos]

Thank you for following up

[ManUtd4ever]

Encouraging news. These false positives are going to play havoc with the tournament if this keeps up.

[Red CB Toronto]

Encouraging news. These false positives are going to play havoc with the tournament if this keeps up.


I still think in the best interest and the hot mess that Florida is, its time to get out.

[TFC1986]

Every last minute cancellation, hurts the league, and the city fanbase.
Cancel this tournament already.

[Red CB Toronto]

Stefano Fusaro





(https://twitter.com/FusaroESPN)



@FusaroESPN





(https://twitter.com/FusaroESPN)











After speaking with MLS officials, I have more clarity on the decision to postpone Toronto FC - DC United this morning. After the initial positive test for a DCU player, and the inconclusive test for a Toronto FC .they were unable to complete the additional testing required, according to the protocols in place, to clear both teams to play. The plan is to complete all of the additional testing, required by their protocols, by late tonight.

[Redcoe15]

What a Goddamned fucking shitshow this is becoming!

Shut it down! Shut all sports down until a vaccine is widely available to the public! This is so not worth it!

[OgtheDim]

Athletic has the tick tock about today ...including a bit from Ali Curtis - team had not left, was still talking when league pulled the plug

https://theathletic.com/1924358/2020/07/12/the-details-behind-the-postponement-of-sundays-d-c-united-toronto-match/

[ensco]

A huge brawl has erupted in the basketball world that may influence MLS decisions.

ESPN (ie Disney) has today suspended the Woj (the pre-eminent beat guy in the NBA, google him if you don’t know the NBA, he breaks every trade, he has no parallel in terms of stature in other sports, think Goff x100) for insulting a Republican senator who was trying to change the channel on the NBA focus on BLM by asking about the NBA relationship with China.

Point being, this is delicate for MLS, there are politics to all this now and Republicans watching this all very closely - MLS have no easy way to back out (assuming they want to abandon this, I don’t know that they do) with a very Trumpy governor in Florida and two teams in the state.

Garber and Abbott continue to get themselves into corners. NHL has played this much smarter by waiting to see what happens with NBA. The risk/reward in “going first“ was terrible from the outset.

[Red CB Toronto]

Major League Soccer’s Disney World bubble differs from the NBA in one significant way.NBA players have arrived at least three weeks before their first scheduled games, which allows for more testing to determine whether players were exposed to coronavirus outside the bubble and provides them with more recovery time if they register a positive test result.

MLS originally proposed a comparable stretch for pre-tournament training, testing and isolation, but it tightened its timeline when players objected to spending so much time isolated in Orlando, a league source told the Orlando Sentinel. The league’s tournament proposal was first reported by The Athletic.

[ag futbol]

Mostly agree, especially the US comment. TFC actually looked good refusing to even leave their hotel this morning.

Is this actually true? I read the tweets that said as much but also saw conflicting reports that suggested both teams were at the field at the time the game was called off.

[ensco]

Imagine you lived in Orlando and had to wait forever for test results while thousands of people in sports bubbles keep endlessly jumping the queue...

[Bushmancan]

Is this actually true? I read the tweets that said as much but also saw conflicting reports that suggested both teams were at the field at the time the game was called off.

Was referencing the Star article... “Toronto’s pre-game meal was scheduled for 5:30 a.m. As it was, the team never left the league hotel — located a five- or 10-minute bus ride from the playing field.D.C. United players did arrive, leaving soon after.”
For what its worth the article also said Osorio didnt dress.... https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2020/07/12/toronto-fc-match-at-mls-is-back-tournament-called-off-due-to-covid-19.html

[OgtheDim]

Is this actually true? I read the tweets that said as much but also saw conflicting reports that suggested both teams were at the field at the time the game was called off.

Athletic article says all of TFC was on a Zoom call up until the league called the game off - giving everybody a chance to talk about it but also giving the league a chance to react to Toronto FC saying "are you sure?"

I can't see the level of TFC public unhappiness we've seen, from players & Vanney, being OK'd without Manning & Tannenbaum's tacit approval.

Which leads to a bit of pure spec - I'm wondering if MLSE floated a counter proposal to MLS when Florida started to go pear shaped & it got shut down.

[ensco]

^I am quite convinced of this. I think this may be quite a story.

[rydermike]

Some good news

https://twitter.com/MLSist/status/1282388099033702402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1282388099033702402%7Ctwgr% 5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D1976283start%3D40

[pekduck]

Imagine you lived in Orlando and had to wait forever for test results while thousands of people in sports bubbles keep endlessly jumping the queue...

In the US, it's all about who has more $ to jump the queue. Here in Texas, you can stay in line for ever for 'free testing' at the charity of certain organizations. Or you can go to Urgent Care and pay a couple hundred for test and wait a week for result. Or you can drop a grand and get a test result back in 30 min. Most Americans don't have couple G monthly disposable income, couple hundred is the max they can muster up. The so called healthcare system is to provide the most efficient services for the most well off customers with price discrimination tiers down pat.

[OgtheDim]

^I am quite convinced of this. I think this may be quite a story.


Garber is so gone by December.

[ensco]

Garber is so gone by December.

Not sure he makes it to September.

[Defoe]

Some good news

https://twitter.com/MLSist/status/1282388099033702402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1282388099033702402%7Ctwgr% 5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D1976283start%3D40

They are playing tomorrow morning according to sportsnet

[Red CB Toronto]

They are playing tomorrow morning according to sportsnet

And Montreal pushed back to Thursday I would guess.

[Red CB Toronto]

It is official.

Major League Soccer has announced that Toronto FC’s MLS is Back Tournament opening match against D.C. United has been re-scheduled to Monday, July 13 at 9:00 a.m. ET. on TSN. In addition, Toronto FC’s second group stage match against the Montreal Impact has been moved to Thursday, July 16 at 8:00 p.m. ET. on TSN. The match was originally scheduled for Wednesday, July 15.

[ag futbol]

Garber is so gone by December.
Notwithstanding these events, in general, maybe is it time for a changing of the guard. You could argue Garber and his type of management has taken the league as far as he’s capable of.

Somebody new has to improve the relationship with the players (I say this ignoring the current situation). The level of resentment of the players towards ownership after the last CBA negotiations and the most recent lockout threat is just not healthy for the league in the long run.

[PaceyWinger]

Thank Jeebus the tests have come back negative just on a human level.. but with Florida dealing with Covid like I deal with golf courses.. you have to wonder how frequent a scene this will be with other teams. Its not going to take too many days like this for people inside the bubble to be lobbying for this somewhat sick experiment to end.

[Red CB Toronto]

It’s a football day, third times a charm hopefully for this Reds match.

[eustacchio]

Are we convinced this is happening today?

I assume they do a third round of testing and don't just go with results they want.

[Red CB Toronto]

Omar is ready. Lets Go.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EczecC4XsAUWsIM?format=jpg&name=small

[Red CB Toronto]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcuaY3sXgAEdLRB?format=jpg&name=large

[MikeForbes]

Did anyone else forget Gallardo existed?

[Auzzy]

Did anyone else forget Gallardo existed?

Nah, he's been shown often during the break. My hope is that after more time with the team, and a settled personal life after some adjustments last year, he'll be a positive surprise.

[dupont]

Where is Osorio? Not even on the bench

[Joe Kool]

Where is Osorio? Not even on the bench

Quad strain

[613reppingTFC]

two days in a row waking up early and disrupting their regular routines. Hopefully that plus everything going around them doesn't weigh too heavy and they can go and just play their game.

[Smokecell]

Reading between the lines - I think Jozy is the inconclusive test thus ineligible to play. Pure speculation but this could explain him not being on the extended bench.

[James17930]

two days in a row waking up early and disrupting their regular routines. Hopefully that plus everything going around them doesn't weigh too heavy and they can go and just play their game.

I'm thinking it's going to give them even more fight and determination. I'm expecting a dominating performance.

COYR!

[69Chevy396]

Reading between the lines - I think Jozy is the inconclusive test thus ineligible to play. Pure speculation but this could explain him not being on the extended bench.

No Jozy? Bet its another quad strain, pulled hamstring, sore groin....sadly, he will never be a full time player.

[woolly]

Anyone have a usuable stream for those of us at work?

[James17930]

Anyone have a usuable stream for those of us at work?

Only one I can find so far:

https://mygoodstream.pw/channels/vip.html?id=eyJjdCI6IjFCWVdkNUVtekxvcXpuR2hUVWJvdl U5eS9LczJPckNZMzBWcWc4Q2ZhZ1NQVkEycHdkQ2IwZW9UaFVX WlRRZmpUTm81Q1FxRUlpQTZnUGNqZFE5Y3hsT3ZqZjJQWDl4dE doSE82QkV3VGJPU0lneUFvdkZNN2V3bXBRSy9KeUVtV2Z4UFpS VFlpRXQ0UUJCcVR4djhPdUJSdS93TUxTVjZpQ0JzbUNJTnNaWm RkTERwdXpqcWJaallPbDZ5RzNxK1VCd2hQdkdZT0JSdnduWGhD a3pPdFlueEFPemduNTFzeVVMcHEvam9lcE9VNFNmc1NtNGdVTG IyRkMzSDhpc3oiLCJpdiI6IjY4YjU5OTY4NjIwZTcxYThhNGNm YWIzYWNjMjdlNjU0IiwicyI6ImNhYTQ1NDI1MDVkNjQzMjAifQ ==

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Anyone have a usuable stream for those of us at work?

http://cdn.livetv319.me/webplayer.php?t=ifr&c=1414935&lang=en&eid=950868&lid=1414935&ci=64&si=1

[James17930]

So great to see the guys back on the field!

[carbontax]

Thanks for the ESPN link @PizzaEatingYeti.

Who's the Latinx-sounding announcer? Because I love the way he says Pozuelo. Trying to learn it during this match.

So important to have life goals.

[Graeme]

No Jozy? Bet its another quad strain, pulled hamstring, sore groin....sadly, he will never be a full time player.

Nope. He's only had about 4 training sessions with the full team. Not game ready yet.

[Bushmancan]

Snipe!

[tfcfans]

AYO!!!!

[James17930]

AYO!

[benito]

Nice strike!

[RealG-TFC]

Thanks for the ESPN link @PizzaEatingYeti.

Who's the Latinx-sounding announcer? Because I love the way he says Pozuelo. Trying to learn it during this match.

So important to have life goals.

Pretty sure that's Alejandro Moreno

[MikeForbes]

Akinola is the best prospect on the squad. That was a lethal strike.

[James17930]

Piati looks lively so far.

[James17930]

Akinola is the best prospect on the squad. That was a lethal strike.

But he's got no left foot. That's two now he's scuffed on his left.

[jloome]

I predicted he wouldn't show for the tournament. Thought I was wrong, but maybe not, maybe he is just keeping it quiet.

Also OK who am I kidding. I surrender. I will watch.

You can lump the guilt like the rest of us.

We’re controlling this utterly. We need to win the tournament for that spot; can’t see TFC playing a Ina season after this, too much time in the US.

[Auzzy]

TFC looking much better than DCU, even beyond the goal. TFC's passing isn't always perfect, but very good IMO after a long layoff. Seeing some great long passes on the dime; some great 1- and 2-touch passing in difficult spots.

Ayo skipped left leg day.

That foul on Piatti looked like a nasty charlie horse.

Only worry for me: sometimes TFC pulls too far forward with too many people, DC will try to exploit that.

[OgtheDim]

Hmm...controlling but a second would be real nice.

[Super]

Does anyone have a feed?

[James17930]

Does anyone have a feed?

Look back in the thread.

[James17930]

I can't remember the last time I saw Bradley run that fast. He's fully rejuvenated.

[OgtheDim]

I can't remember the last time I saw Bradley run that fast. He's fully rejuvenated.

Yeah, but I don't think he makes it through 90 - if he does, he doesn't play against Montreal.

[MikeForbes]

Everyone looks good so far. This team has improved so much since Omar Gonzalez joined.

[PaceyWinger]

We're looking real good here. Can't let them luck out on the counter.

[benito]

A second goal would be nice. They’ve had a few good chances and need to bury one.

[James17930]

We're dicking around at the back too much. It's going to bite us at some point.

[Bushmancan]

TBH.... Westberg’s distribution hasn’t been the best. Giving the ball right back.

[Bushmancan]

Great work by Poz!!! And Unselfish.

[MikeForbes]

Lol at Caldwell thinking that was a shot by Pozuelo.

[James17930]

On his left even!

I guess someone told him ;)

[mauser09]

What a save!

[Red CB Toronto]

What a save point blank.

[benito]

Wow! Great reaction!!

[James17930]

Q!

What a save.

[Red CB Toronto]

Ayo could have four with all his chances plus the two goals.

[James17930]

Are they muting swearing or do my earbuds keep dropping out?

[jloome]

Enjoying the play and the dominance, and Westberg’s still the most underrated keeper in the league.

still feel a little icky about the whole thing though....

[James17930]

Not a handball.

[Red CB Toronto]

Hope the Reds are up to the challenge of playing the final 45 a man up, have not always been great at it ( :

[James17930]

Red!

Man, it's our day.

[rydermike]

Are they muting swearing or do my earbuds keep dropping out?

They try to

[rydermike]

TBH.... Westberg’s distribution hasn’t been the best. Giving the ball right back.
I've noticed that, but then again it is the first game in 4 months, so I'll give him a pass (unintentional pun lol).

[benito]

That was a great half to start the tourney. TFC look pretty good fo far.

[Bushmancan]

I've noticed that, but then again it is the first game in 4 months, so I'll give him a pass (unintentional pun lol).


Agreed, more of an observation.

[Defoe]

Well that was fun. Midfield completely dominating.

[Red CB Toronto]

2 goals on 4 shots , a great first half by Mr. Akinola!!

[jloome]

2 goals on 4 shots , a great first half by Mr. Akinola!!
Should’ve had at least three and set up another. We won’t get these kinds of chances against Seattle or Atlanta.

[tfcfans]

Need to use the substitutions wisely in the second half to save legs for Mtl. Who gets subbed?

[MikeForbes]

The guys who put in the major miles should come out in second half and the DPs. So, I say Morrow, Bradley, Delgado, Pozuelo and Piatti will be subbed off.

[OgtheDim]

Are they muting swearing or do my earbuds keep dropping out?

Yes there is a mute - ESPN insists on it, apparently.

[Red CB Toronto]

Would love to see Jayden get a run out.

[Red CB Toronto]

Are they muting swearing or do my earbuds keep dropping out?


Yes there is a mute - ESPN insists on it, apparently.

after the debacle at the all star game where someone sitting near a field mic who was swearing all game sure they have the powers to mute whenever needed.

[tfcfans]

Ciman and Zavs - the dynamic duo are back together again...:facepalm:

[Red CB Toronto]

Both central defenders replaced at the same time.

[FootBallAZ]

Looks like mavinga asked for a sub

And this ESPN feed is 100 times better than TSN.

During the refresh its complete silence.
Beautiful

[Mikmacdo]

Get another goal and sub in Nelson, Gallardo, Fraser, DeLeon

[Mikmacdo]

Ciman and Zavs - the dynamic duo are back together again...:facepalm:

Ciman played well at the end of the year.

[MikeForbes]

Taking basically the entire backline off is odd.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

WTF?
Why Zavaleta?

Anyone, but not Zavaleta!!!!!

[tfcfans]

Ciman played well at the end of the year.

Sure he wasn’t awful but there is no comparison between the OG/Mavinga pairing and the Ciman/Zavs one....Gonzalez has settled things down immensely since he arrived....

[Red CB Toronto]

Zavs is a really beauty to have out here.

[James17930]

Saving them for Montreal.

Smart.

[jloome]

Fuck you caldwell, fucking guy has never seen a dirty tackle. Straight red that.

[FootBallAZ]

ESPN guy called it a red.
So nice for unbiased calling

He also did call hand ball on pozuelo.

[buck henry]

i love hearing the guys talk among each other. I just wish Luke would shut up for a few minutes

[tfcfans]

Good sub - Nick for Poz....

[James17930]

C'mon, let's get this third goal.

[jloome]

Ok, now that central defence switch is starting to look a little arrogant.

[tfcfans]

Any more compliments for the D pairing? Just Win the game please - don’t need another SJ special....

[rydermike]

Sub out our two centre backs. Allow a goal with a man advantage.

[James17930]

Fuck.

Off.

[Yohan]

Higuain still has it. kills TFC like every game

[FootBallAZ]

Every game

[RealG-TFC]

Got way to complacent, i realy don't know why they don't go for the third.

[MikeForbes]

World class defending. Ciman is okay with OG or Mavinga, but having him and Zavs out there together is questionable.

[James17930]

We were being too passive. Not even trying to score. That ALWAYS kills us.

[tfcfans]

I never ever want to see Ciman and Zavs playing together in the middle again....how many times do we need to watch this to know it doesn’t work....

[OgtheDim]

Serious San Jose vibes here

[Red CB Toronto]

What it is about about the Reds playing a man up ?

[rydermike]

Just noticed Zavaleta took Drew Moor's old #3 jersey

[tfcfans]

Just noticed Zavaleta took Drew Moor's old #3 jersey

Loved Drew as a father figure to this group, but it was time to move on by 2020 - maybe #3 Zavs can move on too....

[jloome]

Fucking travesty

[tfcfans]

Absolutely embarrassing....

[rydermike]

Are you kidding me. Vanney was too cocky, takes off the central defenders and the creative players

[FootBallAZ]

Lol wtf

[MikeForbes]

This is on Vanney.

[FootBallAZ]

Maybe they are trying to throw the tournament

[jloome]

Man, I don’t ever doubt that vanney is a great coach, but he has blind spots on certain players, and arrogance about subs. Always has.
.

[James17930]

Hubris.

Nothing but fucking hubris.

[GerMc]

This is on Vanney.

I agree. They sat back for 45 minutes with a man advantage, and let DC pick away at them. A rookie coaching mistake, throwing away 2 points.

[RealG-TFC]

Good. Dilly dallying being a man up should burn us every time. The amount of times I saw forward runs ignored just to pass it back this half has been infuriating.

[Auzzy]

Fuck this shit. A ton of missed chances. After looking good early, hesitant especially in the 2nd half, dicking around at the edge of DC's box. Double CB sub, WHY? Zavaleta doesn't even jump for that cross.

[tfcfans]

Can we retire the Ciman and Zavs thing please; play games to win with your proper CBs when up a man....

[GerMc]

I agree. They sat back for 45 minutes with a man advantage, and let DC pick away at them. A rookie coaching mistake, throwing away 2 points.

And I thought we all agreed last season that Zavaleta and Ciman should not be allowed on the field at the same time. Maybe take one of Gonzalez or Mavinga off, but not both.

[OgtheDim]

San Jose all over again

Not good enough - subs wrong, mentality wrong.

[notthesun]

The Ciman-Zavaleta pairing is a nightmare, I don't know why we'd ever go back to it, we've seen this enough times to know. Even 2-0 up against 10 men isn't enough for them... like just admit these players need a proper CB beside them to not be a disaster. They should never ever play together.

[noimpactinmtl]

Anyone know how we develop center backs down at the academy?

[Auzzy]

And I thought we all agreed last season that Zavaleta and Ciman should not be allowed on the field at the same time. Maybe take one of Gonzalez or Mavinga off, but not both.

And if you're not sure if both your CBs can go 90 minutes in the first game back, in the heat: then start with one of them. E.g. start with Gonzalez & Ciman and sub Mavinga on as needed.

[buck henry]

so dissapointing

[tfcfans]

Any more compliments for the D pairing? Just Win the game please - don’t need another SJ special....

I guess I called it - the SJ special....

[OgtheDim]

Shades of Frei & Altidore that Hamid save

[MikeForbes]

That feels like a loss. Such a disappointing feeling.

[rydermike]

Anyone know how we develop center backs down at the academy?
Given our history of blowing leads after 75 minutes since 2007, probably 75 minute games

[Auzzy]

All this jabbering & handbags after the game, the best you'll get this from that is the 'Rona.

[rydermike]

I went from thinking this was going to be a Columbus-Cincinatti game to it being a 2007-2015 TFC

[Auzzy]

Shades of Frei & Altidore that Hamid save

I think today's was off the bar even w/o the keeper interfering.

[bones]

Ciman-Zavaleta ..... how many fucking times do we need to watch this collective implosion

[James17930]

I'm so fucking angry at this fucking 'see the game out' bullshit. How many points do we lose every season because of that? So far this year it's been 4. In 3 fucking games! We should be 3-0, instead we're 1-0-2.

Bullshit.

[benito]

What a waste.

[Initial B]

That should not have happened. Two Tobias Time goals? I think this is on Vanney, subbing both CBs out. Should have picked just one. I would have kept on Mavinga and brought Ciman on. The Ciman-Zavaleta pairing is simply not good enough. I guess it's good for the Montreal game, because I'm sure the players are absolutely pissed that they gave this game away.

[Yohan]

well, if this isn't the wake up call this team needs

[Auzzy]

Can you play a man down voluntarily? Maybe as soon as the other team gets a red card, Vanney should pull a TFC player off the pitch as well. Either that or come up with some decent tactics when playing a man advantage.

[rydermike]

Zavaleta tried to draw a free kick on the second goal. You're a centre back, you need to be strong in your own box and get the ball out no matter how, not trying to be cute and draw a free kick.

[FootBallAZ]

Risking players health needs to result in wins

[PizzaEatingYeti]

WTF?
Why Zavaleta?

Anyone, but not Zavaleta!!!!!

I seriously doubt the Ciman-Zavaleta pairing would be good enough in the CPL.
I'm not joking at all.

[rydermike]

I swear we need two coaches. The second coach being solely responsible for substitutions. Vanney a good coach but his sub decisions cost us multiple times.

[SoccMan2]

Wow not surprising though, you never take off both your starting two starting Center Backs never! I don’t care how many men you are up! Zavaletta we love to criticize but come on Ciman at fault for both goals I’m sorry!

[PizzaEatingYeti]

This beyond utter shit second half performance is 100% because of Vanney's idiotic subs.

[alex andrew]

in my experience, 2-0 is the most dangerous score

it is either 1 or 3

2-0 and a man up calls for big trouble

[SoccMan2]

And Mr. Caldwell telling all of us basically that this game was over at the start of the second half , well done there Caldwell!

[ManUtd4ever]

This one is on Vanney. He was overconfident in switching out both central defenders when he did. Instead of putting them away in the second half we let them up off the mat.

Hopefully it's a lesson learned.

[rydermike]

We should be 3-0-0 this "season". Instead we're 1-0-2.

[Inklink]

If it's going to take Vanney getting has ass canned to get rid of Erik fucking Zavaletta, lets do it. Cimian-Zav is never a good idea.

[OgtheDim]

Talk that Mavinga asked to come off at the same time. May not have been planned.

[Graeme]

I saw him give a sub motion earlier in the half and thought he might have been telling the team to keep up the tempo, but perhaps he was feeling something?

[rydermike]

Talk that Mavinga asked to come off at the same time. May not have been planned.
Until the player physically comes off they can cancel a sub. Vanney easily could've told Omar to stay once Mavinga asked to come off.
I've seen a player walking off, the 4th official with the sign up and numbers on and then cancelled last second.

[NK Toronto]

Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but sports seems unimportant these days.

[General Woolfe]

Something in the back of my head tells me we are missing RFs counsel on the bench. That was as bizarre a substitution as you’ll ever see. If you want to rotate your squad you do it at half time, and if a defender is injured you sub him alone. Common sense dictates you upset your backline as little as possible during live play, no matter the scoreline.

Im also increasingly worried about this blind spot Vanney has for his nephew. Given some of the players we’ve released in recent times it is baffling Zavaletta is still in the squad.

I’d be more content to take this on the chin if I thought we would learn from this but evidence shows that we won’t. TFC seem utterly incapable of seeing out games no matter the advantage they have.

[pekduck]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/07/13/what-went-wrong-toronto-fc-two-goal-collapse-against-dc-united

Okay, this makes more sense...



"Ten minutes into the second half, Omar is cramping up and can't take a step," Vanney said. "Right before the water break, Chris is cramping up. This is the first game in extreme temperatures, so the question becomes: How much do you push guys in the first game of a tournament, the first game in months? So we went with the changes. It really disrupted our ability to start attacks, keep possession and also we struggled in some transition defending."


I'd drop MB4 to CB and bring on Fraser for DM... actually is Fraser even dressed?

[ag futbol]

Zavaleta tried to draw a free kick on the second goal. You're a centre back, you need to be strong in your own box and get the ball out no matter how, not trying to be cute and draw a free kick.
Wow, good call, I just figured it was one of our mids that got out jumped there. Really terrible play from someone who is counted on to do those sorts of things game in and game out.

Anyway, I look at this more as pre-season /sideshow more than anything else. Really hard to take this tournament seriously.

Just want to see how the young guys look and the guys coming off injuries.

[ag futbol]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/07/13/what-went-wrong-toronto-fc-two-goal-collapse-against-dc-united

Okay, this makes more sense...



I'd drop MB4 to CB and bring on Fraser for DM... actually is Fraser even dressed?
agreed. Neither Zavaleta or Ciman is capable of organizing.

[noimpactinmtl]

Upon second look at the highlights, I don't think I can blame Zavaleta for either of those goals as much as I would blame Ciman. The only thing that I would blame Zavaleta for is losing the aerial duel on the set piece in stoppage time. Both goals, however, should be placed on Ciman's feet, one for the risky pass (instead of passing back to Westberg), and the other for not contesting the second header.

[MikeForbes]

Ciman has regressed quite badly from his Montreal days and it is only gonna get worse. Anyone know how much longer his contract runs for?

[Rocket Robin]

I'd like to see a rule (by handshake) for the next game...TFC vs Montreal with them both agreeing to play with Canadian Championship rules (!?). That means they each start with three CANADIAN starters. Today TFC had no Canadian starters and brought in Richie Laryea for the second half. Blame the tie on an old French guy and the coach's nephew. When will the Canadians play? "Oh we've got to win the next game and we've got to win the last group game and we've got to win each knockout game or we're out". I guess TFC needs a 3-0 lead or to be behind by three goals before we see some of their young Canadians.

[Defoe]

This team needs to put Pozuelo as an attacking midfielder not a number 9. He's to slow and we can leverage his best assets if he plays as a CAM the same way Vazquez did. He can produce up top because he's one of the best player in MLS but I feel he would be more dominant as a no 10.