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rydermike
01-20-2020, 12:59 PM
5m ago

TFC's Bradley (ankle) out three to four months


Toronto FC midfielder Michael Bradley will undergo surgery on Tuesday for what general manager Ali Curtis calls a "severe" ankle injury that the United States international picked up during November's MLS Cup final loss to the Seattle Sounders. The surgery is expected to sideline the Reds captain for three to four months.





Toronto FC midfielder Michael Bradley will undergo surgery on Tuesday for what general manager Ali Curtis calls a "severe" ankle injury that the United States international picked up during November's MLS Cup final loss to the Seattle Sounders.
The surgery is expected to sideline the Reds captain for three to four months.

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-captain-michael-bradley-ankle-out-three-to-four-months-1.1430275

OgtheDim
01-20-2020, 01:02 PM
https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1219316211730800645

OgtheDim
01-20-2020, 01:23 PM
https://twitter.com/MLeach680News/status/1219320535206780931

I am coming around to the idea that either

a) our medical staff are being hampered by the FO/Coaching staff

or

b) our medical staff isn't good enough

ensco
01-20-2020, 01:29 PM
Hoo boy. Jozy unloads.

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1219319749009690624

https://twitter.com/Beezersun/status/1219319761110257665

https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1219322910927659009

OgtheDim
01-20-2020, 01:32 PM
Jozy has a point

In a normal world, Bradley, like any other player, is being monitored and looked at when recovering from any injury.

Whether Bradley reports to be looked at is another matter. If he doesn't, that's on the FO for letting him get away with it. If he does and they let him keep on rehabbing in hope, that's on the medical staff.

Somebody messed up.

ensco
01-20-2020, 01:35 PM
Jozy has a point

In a normal world, Bradley, like any other player, is being monitored and looked at when recovering from any injury.

Whether Bradley reports to be looked at is another matter. If he doesn't, that's on the FO for letting him get away with it. If he does and they let him keep on rehabbing in hope, that's on the medical staff.

Somebody messed up.

Something tells me this is about more than just this incident, and Jozy is not happy with the medical treatment he was/is getting.

Ultra & Proud
01-20-2020, 01:46 PM
Something tells me this is about more than just this incident, and Jozy is not happy with the medical treatment he was/is getting.
There is no medical treatment to keep him healthy so it doesn't really matter. He demanded Giovinco's guy and they hired him back and he still missed half the season. Unless they can invent that white goo bath from the movie Wanted then no medical treatment is keeping him on the pitch for 34 matches.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 01:48 PM
Something tells me this is about more than just this incident, and Jozy is not happy with the medical treatment he was/is getting.

Very good point indeed.

not sure how you effectively rehab an ankle in any event - its not like a knee where to some extent strengthening the right muscles can make up for ligament damage

also, Bradley played the whole game on the ankle. Tough.

Ultra & Proud
01-20-2020, 03:04 PM
Very good point indeed.

not sure how you effectively rehab an ankle in any event - its not like a knee where to some extent strengthening the right muscles can make up for ligament damage

also, Bradley played the whole game on the ankle. Tough.
There were a few tweets from people with some degree of medical background saying about casting and strengthening.

notthesun
01-20-2020, 03:49 PM
Guess Jozy shitting on management is just gonna be a regular occurrence now?... He probably has a point I think.

At least Fraser is gonna play now.

MikeForbes
01-20-2020, 03:53 PM
Are we actually sure Fraser is just gonna walk into the starting XI? He rarely made the bench late last season. I could see a midfield of Pozuelo/Osorio/Delgado starting in San Jose with Fraser being on the bench.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 03:54 PM
There were a few tweets from people with some degree of medical background saying about casting and strengthening.

I wonder what the strengthening is they are referring to - not alot of muscles surrounding ankle ligaments. I do not have a medical background, just experience rehabbing knees and ankles myself - the medical advice I got around knee ligaments was to strengthen, around ankles basically to tape them. Sure there is motion you can add etc, but for torn ligaments (or bone chips) I don't get why surgery wouldn't have been considered sooner. Unless Bradley did not want to do it until after his contract was secure.

EDIT: Dr Internet says this - for sprains. His injury was "severe" .

https://uhs.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/anklesprains.pdf

Bobo
01-20-2020, 03:59 PM
Are we actually sure Fraser is just gonna walk into the starting XI? He rarely made the bench late last season. I could see a midfield of Pozuelo/Osorio/Delgado starting in San Jose with Fraser being on the bench.

I think this will depend on how comfortable Vanney is playing Delgado in the middle as the deepest midfielder. If he isn't, then I expect Fraser to start. Alternatively, GV could go 4231 now to lessen the defensive burden.


I'd also have to assume this puts more pressure on management to get a DP deal done before the season. Aside from the increasing need to get DP-level quality on the pitch, I think Manning and Curtis will want to appease fans and change the headlines - cause this is ugly.

Hamilton_Red
01-20-2020, 04:04 PM
You’ve got to think about a loan player to shore thing up.

azorean
01-20-2020, 04:39 PM
Guess Jozy shitting on management is just gonna be a regular occurrence now?... He probably has a point I think.

At least Fraser is gonna play now.

point or not, Jozy strikes me as a guy that would complain about EVERYTHING. We all know them.

ensco
01-20-2020, 04:46 PM
^Not fair.

Jozy to my knowledge has only complained about one thing. Medical/training capability and support. He has now done it twice.

He is doing the support a favour here. I'll stand with him.

azorean
01-20-2020, 04:51 PM
I like Jozy. Good Player. Has been great for us. Seems like decent guy. BUT the guy does chirp a lot.

Bellzy
01-20-2020, 06:12 PM
I like Jozy. Good Player. Has been great for us. Seems like decent guy. BUT the guy does chirp a lot.

Would you mind quantifying this statement? Examples aside from last year’s well documented trainer issue would be great

ensco
01-20-2020, 06:18 PM
Would you mind quantifying this statement? Examples aside from last year’s well documented trainer issue would be great

The only other thing I can think of is him saying after MLS Cup that he was upset coming in at the 65th minute.

azorean
01-20-2020, 06:40 PM
ok guys, maybe i'm wrong, we all love Jozy. I just associate him with the complaining type , that's all, moreso than any other current TFC player, i remember Giovinco leaving was a problem, I remember his injury was not treated properly was a problem , Todays news is a problem, if this had nothing do with him personally , why even open your mouth?

stevep
01-20-2020, 06:42 PM
ok guys, maybe i'm wrong, we all love Jozy. I just associate him with the complaining type , that's all, moreso than any other current TFC player, i remember Giovinco leaving was a problem, I remember his injury was not treated properly was a problem , Todays news is a problem, this has nothing do with him personally , why even open your mouth?

Jozy is part of the show. He plays his part well

portu
01-20-2020, 06:42 PM
Are we actually sure Fraser is just gonna walk into the starting XI? He rarely made the bench late last season. I could see a midfield of Pozuelo/Osorio/Delgado starting in San Jose with Fraser being on the bench.

I will be so pissed if he doesn't. There better be a silver lining to this.

portu
01-20-2020, 06:43 PM
The only other thing I can think of is him saying after MLS Cup that he was upset coming in at the 65th minute.

Ripped into Bill last year as well.

azorean
01-20-2020, 06:59 PM
Bono backstopped us to MLS cup, the guy was relegated to the bench for months , rightly so as Westberg was performing better, and yet i don't hear a peep out of him. Sometimes it is good to just be quiet. Jozy should just be quiet sometimes.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 07:37 PM
You’ve got to think about a loan player to shore thing up.
Benezet. oops.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 07:38 PM
The only other thing I can think of is him saying after MLS Cup that he was upset coming in at the 65th minute.


If he came in at halftime we win. Or if he started and played 65, we win.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 07:40 PM
Bono backstopped us to MLS cup, the guy was relegated to the bench for months , rightly so as Westberg was performing better, and yet i don't hear a peep out of him. Sometimes it is good to just be quiet. Jozy should just be quiet sometimes.

You are of course right. But the team did put him in front of the media - it wasn't like he phoned them up.

Bellzy
01-20-2020, 07:41 PM
Ripped into Bill last year as well.
Again, wasn’t that over the trainer?

azorean
01-20-2020, 07:47 PM
Again, wasn’t that over the trainer?

Tell that to your boss next time you rip him in public, see how that goes for you.

MightyDM
01-20-2020, 07:52 PM
Just read Vanney's comments about the actual nature of the injury - the cartilage between the tibia and the ankle. This might be quite serious as that cannot heal and almost certainly will be a long run problem for Bradley. I feel for him because his entire strength is the most extraordinary engine - how do you keep that engine up if your ankle is always sore - and getting worse. I worry about the longer term for him - like next year.

Bellzy
01-20-2020, 08:05 PM
Tell that to your boss next time you rip him in public, see how that goes for you.

lol, ok. But what’s the answer?

Bobo
01-20-2020, 08:06 PM
Isn't it odd that management would commit to a new multiyear contract without making damn sure they knew everything about the ankle and were taking care off properly? It's not like the deal was wrapped up on Day 1 of the offseason. This really shouldn't have been a surprise. Irresponsible on numerous levels.

Richard
01-20-2020, 08:22 PM
I guess this explains the year we had everyone injured.

Fire the whole department. Clean house.

James17930
01-20-2020, 08:50 PM
The thing no one seems to have mentioned yet is we don't know how much of the decision came from Bradley himself. What if he was adamant he didn't want surgery, or something?

I feel like we don't know enough yet to know where to place the blame.

Inklink
01-20-2020, 09:53 PM
Could be poor handling, but Altidore should really shut the fuck up. Looked like a god damn fool today.

rydermike
01-20-2020, 09:57 PM
is there a way for me to update the thread title? I forgot the word months

James17930
01-20-2020, 09:58 PM
is there a way for me to update the thread title? I forgot the word months

Only a mod can do it.

Auzzy
01-20-2020, 10:03 PM
Bono backstopped us to MLS cup, the guy was relegated to the bench for months , rightly so as Westberg was performing better, and yet i don't hear a peep out of him. Sometimes it is good to just be quiet. Jozy should just be quiet sometimes.

Not really true. Bono did complain, and came across looking pretty clueless. Like has he watched some tapes?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2019/08/05/alex-bono-eager-to-get-back-in-goal-for-toronto-fc.html

azorean
01-20-2020, 10:13 PM
Not really true. Bono did complain, and came across looking pretty clueless. Like has he watched some tapes?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2019/08/05/alex-bono-eager-to-get-back-in-goal-for-toronto-fc.html

I don't know, I just read the article, hint of frustration, yes, but to tell you the truth, I'm more impressed with him and the way he has handled things after reading this article then before! Some of the quotes were real classy, team first always.

Stress
01-20-2020, 10:14 PM
The thing no one seems to have mentioned yet is we don't know how much of the decision came from Bradley himself. What if he was adamant he didn't want surgery, or something?

I feel like we don't know enough yet to know where to place the blame.

Lol thank you! Was looking for this comment in this thread and the transfer thread.

Without knowing Bradley’s involvement in the decision making, everyone needs to chill.

Bradley has enough sway at the club to pretty much call his own shots so I’m sure he was aligned with the cautious approach.

portu
01-21-2020, 02:59 AM
Just read Vanney's comments about the actual nature of the injury - the cartilage between the tibia and the ankle. This might be quite serious as that cannot heal and almost certainly will be a long run problem for Bradley. I feel for him because his entire strength is the most extraordinary engine - how do you keep that engine up if your ankle is always sore - and getting worse. I worry about the longer term for him - like next year.

Good thing we just signed him to a 3 year contract.

DavemTFC
01-21-2020, 04:14 AM
Every time Altidore has publically criticized someone at TFC he's had a point. Don't mind this at all.

I'm still waiting for more info about the exact injury and more outsider info from medical experts, but right now this looks pathetic

Ultra & Proud
01-21-2020, 07:44 AM
No matter what, even if Bradley insisted himself that surgery was a last resort, the medical team should get a review.

Derko
01-21-2020, 09:37 AM
Has anyone wondered that the medical team may have tried Physiotherapy first, at Bradley's insistence, which can take months to actually do some good and as a last resort surgery was the only option. Think about the timeline between the MLS Cup final and now, what 2 or 3 months. Hopefully a speedy recovery. Altidore sometimes needs to clam up, he is not the captain or spokesman for the players, just my opinion

TomLawrence
01-21-2020, 09:50 AM
Isn't it odd that management would commit to a new multiyear contract without making damn sure they knew everything about the ankle and were taking care off properly? It's not like the deal was wrapped up on Day 1 of the offseason. This really shouldn't have been a surprise. Irresponsible on numerous levels.

What’s odd is you thinking management didn’t know. It hasn’t been a surprise. Just because you didn’t know doesn’t mean the management and staff didn’t know. Crazy idea but the management know a lot more than you.

Bobo
01-21-2020, 12:16 PM
What’s odd is you thinking management didn’t know. It hasn’t been a surprise. Just because you didn’t know doesn’t mean the management and staff didn’t know. Crazy idea but the management know a lot more than you.

Is that you, Ali?

If they did know and opted not to do anything because MB calls the shots, that's still irresponsible - even more so.

Oldtimer
01-21-2020, 12:51 PM
You try to keep MB off the field. It's a real challenge, and you don't ignore your star players feelings. Maybe you force him for his own good, but often these decisions aren't so clear cut.

Oldtimer
01-21-2020, 12:52 PM
Is that you, Ali?


Tom predates Ali by years.

ensco
01-21-2020, 01:02 PM
What’s odd is you thinking management didn’t know. It hasn’t been a surprise. Just because you didn’t know doesn’t mean the management and staff didn’t know. Crazy idea but the management know a lot more than you.

Yes it is silly to suggest management don’t know what is going on.

The issue is judgment. We seem to be getting these tough calls wrong over and over.

Much as I love Jozy, what he did was a bit unfair. We need to know a lot more to evaluate the judgment.

I am worried about it. The level of trust seems not solid enough.

Ultra & Proud
01-21-2020, 02:32 PM
You try to keep MB off the field. It's a real challenge, and you don't ignore your star players feelings. Maybe you force him for his own good, but often these decisions aren't so clear cut.
Also not a clear cut thing to force a player to undergo surgery if they don't want it or want to try rehab first.

Bobo
01-21-2020, 05:21 PM
Yes it is silly to suggest management don’t know what is is going on.

The issue is judgment. We seem to be getting these tough calls wrong over and over.

I mean, I did specify taking the necessary steps (which, evidently, they did not) in ADDITION to just knowing about it. But whatever, I did butcher the English language when I typed it.



Also not a clear cut thing to force a player to undergo surgery if they don't want it or want to try rehab first.

They also weren't forced to sign a 32-year-old to a multiyear deal while he's dealing with a serious injury. Setting aside the well-being of the player, it's just a weird business decision. Can only hope Bradley is back to his normal self when he returns in April/May, but I have to doubt that's a given at this point in his career.

Oldtimer
01-21-2020, 05:34 PM
I mean, I did specify taking the necessary steps (which, evidently, they did not) in ADDITION to just knowing about it. But whatever, I did butcher the English language when I typed it.




They also weren't forced to sign a 32-year-old to a multiyear deal while he's dealing with a serious injury. Setting aside the well-being of the player, it's just a weird business decision. Can only hope Bradley is back to his normal self when he returns in April/May, but I have to doubt that's a given at this point in his career.

I think you probably didn't see Vanney's interview. Obviously Vanney does not want to lose a key player, but he says in defense of the medical staff that it is a very difficult to diagnose injury in a particular place where the player will feel completely normal except when he really pushes himself, plus the serious injury was disguised by other less serious injury in the area. Apparently Vanney's daughter has had a similar injury from gymnastics so he knows all about it.

I feel that those of us who aren't medical professionals should hesitate to decide that the medical staff don't know what they are doing in this case.

James17930
01-21-2020, 05:41 PM
As for signing him again when he was injured, that's no biggie – it's only a 4 month thing. He'll be back.

After processing all the info, here's the best summary I think we can give so far:

The injury was not straight-forward. There was some sort of contact injury nestled deep in the ankle surrounded by a lot of swelling, making it very easily missed on all the scans, even by the specialists. The honest medical opinion was that it could probably be rehabbed, with the aim of having Bradley back by the start of the season. Only after some time, with other parts of ankle healing, were they able to know it wasn't right, and then detect the deep-lying injury. It really doesn't seem like there was any negligence, just bad luck.

So as for Jozy's comments, there are two possibilities:

1) He's lashing out as a first reaction, just assuming that something was done wrong. If this is the case, then he obviously has some big problem with the club, wether just with the medical staff or with the front office as well. Given that he was also so quick to insult Manning last year, it's starting to seem like he really has some sort of problem with management. If that's the case, though, why re-sign? If he thinks the club is run so poorly, and handles players' health so poorly, why stay? But since he has decided to stay, regardless of any misgivings he may have, he really, really needs to be more professional and stop running his mouth off to the press over things he probably doesn't know much about. Or,

2) He does have inside info, and he's acting as a sort of proxy for Bradley. Maybe he and Bradley were in contact all through the winter, and Bradley was expressing his frustration over the injury and how the staff were handling it, and Jozy is echoing Bradley's feelings over everything. If that's the case, then I would fully support him, and it would really say that TFC have to take a very hard look at their medical department. But then again, if MB was angry over how the injury was being treated, why so nobly re-sign as TAM? Why be so dedicated to a club that was screwing him over (in this scenario, I mean)?

So, unfortunately, the signs seem to point to 1) more than 2). Of course, we'll have to wait to hear from Bradley to be sure.

On a self-aggrandizing note, remember I said it was weird they were taking so long to sign Bradley, that something might be up? Well, it seems like it was this. You may all offer your apologies forthwith ;)

Bushmancan
01-21-2020, 07:29 PM
Also not a clear cut thing to force a player to undergo surgery if they don't want it or want to try rehab first.

It is a story in NHL right now as well, Connor McDavid and rehab. Story about different injury and different solution but similar silence.

https://www.tsn.ca/ryan-rishaug-connor-mcdavid-saved-season-by-opting-for-rehab-over-surgery-1.1430869