Coach Support

[gracos]

I would like to know from the RPBs does Vanney have confidence in continuing with being our coach, the Seattle Sounders have the right to have a vote of confidence and i just want to know if we had the same priveledge would Vanney continue

[TheGoodson]

Why is the even a question?

[gracos]

Why is the even a question?

I hear a lot of people questioning Vanneys tactics and results, and just wanted to know what the majority of people felt

[Bushmancan]

I have been critical of Vanney, but i dont think the vote is black & white. I think he is a very good coach with skilled players but very lucky to be coaching a team that is well funded. It went out and got him everything he wanted (defender and speedy wingers) and he got to the final, so kudos.

Based on that alone, he should return.

As a pure critic however, we still aren’t unlocking the final 3rd and have challenges battening down in the last 10 minutes for a 1 goal win.

Would he be as impactful at RSL or Montreal Impact with significantly smaller budgets. I would question his qualifications dealing with less assets or if TFC stop investing in the team.

[NK Toronto]

I have to agree. There were some questionable decisions made this year, with squad rotation, formations, playing players out of position, requesting wingers and then not playing them. For me the jury is still out on him.

[Red CB Toronto]

No question in my mind he should be back next season. Simply as that.

[ensco]

Give me a break. Jesus Christ.

[shwade]

Give me a break. Jesus Christ.

QFT. 3 finals in the last 4 years, no Altidore for most of this season..wtf else do people want?

Vanney stays until he decides he wants to leave.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I was sometimes anti-Vanney (only in these cases I voiced my opinion, when angry!), sometimes pro-Vanney, but the real problem is with the team construction - and that's all on the front office.
This year he realised a lot higher with the available bodies than what was expected.

Seriously, how TFC's playoff lot fared if compared with the other 3 semifinalists this year?
But wait, compare it with the last 7 teams standing besides TFC in the conference semifinals.

Again, compare the players talent, not the wages paid to the them... you see?
We all know that a few of our players are grossly overpaid.

[Initial B]

I'm willing to see what Vanney can field next year with a new CBA. I'm expecting a big jump in the Salary cap, with $100K being the new minimum, 3 DPs being worth $1.5M against the cap each, a total cap of $10M, and no xAM.

Vanney is one of the better coaches in the league and seems to have good chemistry with the players. TFC should keep him until he chooses to leave or loses the locker room.

[Areathrasher]

Give me a break. Jesus Christ.

Agreed

[NK Toronto]

Vanney also had the highest payroll over that time frame. The question that should be asked is would another coach have gotten better results with those same players. TFC played in 4 finals since 2016 and only won one. I am not necessarily advocating for his dismissal I am only saying that his entire body of work needs to be scrutinized over his tenure here. He shouldn't automatically be renewed based on his last 3 months of work.

[OgtheDim]

Can we get a poll about people setting up polls?

[Bushmancan]

What are people getting upset about, it is 16-0. No one wants him fired, everyone wants him back. It is ok to be critical and assess what we need to continue a dominant franchise, because that is what I want most of all. 2018 was a blip from injuries, going for it and scheduling but there can be times when we can question things.

Having a stable coach is a sign of a great franchise and we should expect Vanney to grow and evolve as well. I had some questions at times in his selections and to pretend now that i didnt would be wrong. If you read what i was saying is he needs really smart players.

I was so proud to be a TFC fan in Seattle, I was proud of the boys, proud of the fans, proud of the coach and proud of the organization this weekend and I want this to continue.

All for One.

[stevep]

This question is so June/July
It's November now.
#vanneyin

[denime]

Give me a break. Jesus Christ.

What he said !

[Oldtimer]

QFT. 3 finals in the last 4 years, no Altidore for most of this season..wtf else do people want?

Vanney stays until he decides he wants to leave.

All I demand is that the team be a contender, I don't expect to win the cup every year. Vanney has exceeded my expectations this year.


Vanney also had the highest payroll over that time frame. The question that should be asked is would another coach have gotten better results with those same players. TFC played in 4 finals since 2016 and only won one. I am not necessarily advocating for his dismissal I am only saying that his entire body of work needs to be scrutinized over his tenure here. He shouldn't automatically be renewed based on his last 3 months of work.

The total cost red herring is an idiotic metric floating around Twitter. It's the quality of players and roster construction that matters, not how much players are overpaid.

Almost all of the high salary amount is due to Jozy and Michael, neither who are top five in the league in their position. Even Pozuelo is significantly behind several other playmakers. Maybe you could have argued when Giovinco was here that his genius was why TFC went to the final, but Giovinco wasn't here this year, he wasn't replaced.

So it's better to ask the question, since Jozy was out, "how do you rate a coach who managed to get to an MLS Cup final without a quality striker?" Name even one coach who managed that besides Vanney. There hasn't been one since I've been following the league (2005). That Vanney could get the team there is astonishing.

[GuelphStorm2007]

Oh really this is dumb

[jabbronies]

QFT. 3 finals in the last 4 years, no Altidore for most of this season..wtf else do people want?

Vanney stays until he decides he wants to leave.


You forgot they made the finals in what could be considered a rebuild year.

people LOVE drama.

[Oldtimer]

I would like to know from the RPBs does Vanney have confidence in continuing with being our coach, the Seattle Sounders have the right to have a vote of confidence and i just want to know if we had the same priveledge would Vanney continue

Because we should do things like the Sounders?:ack2::puke:

[matteo30]

Because we should do things like the Sounders?:ack2::puke:

I want to bunker for 3 finals and win 2 of them.. well sitting back and not getting a shot in one, and winning because of an own goal in another... Then I want to claim that we are a championship city, and hail a guy that wears a sports bra:facepalm: well he whips off his shirt like he is Brandi Chastain...

[gracos]

I appreciate the current feedback; it just allows me to see a bigger picture of our club I know we should be striving for excellence and we surpassed all expectations for this season; just want to see if I'm too critical on the club
I truly appreciate all the support and not making fun of this poll too much

[noimpactinmtl]

Savour it while you can, coaching stability is a rare luxury enjoyed by very few clubs.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Savour it while you can, coaching stability is a rare luxury enjoyed by very few clubs.

This!
Savour it while you can, because next year, even if TFC's player personnel will be better or even a lot better, and Vanney will be the same good coach, we have less chance being in the final again.
Other teams evolve too...

[Ben - D.O.W.]

This!
Savour it while you can, because next year, even if TFC's player personnel will be better or even a lot better, and Vanney will be the same good coach, we have less chance being in the final again.
Other teams evolve too...

I mean the same thing could have been said before the 2017 season, and we all saw how that went. I'm not saying we'll see a repeat of that next year, but depending how this off-season goes, I expect a very motivated team for 2020.

[OgtheDim]

Every team gets better every year.


The supposition this team is going to remain static will be tested in the next couple of days when word gets out about people who's options are not being picked up.

*****

On another note, we have a manager that has shown he is learning each year - perfect no - but the supposition that opposing managers are going to suddenly get better then the coach who everybody in this league says is the most tactically astute - that supposition doesn't hold water.

We are the only team to be able to flow between 3 formations within a half - I get some people think that's meaningless but in this league, that's useful.

[James17930]

Also, think about it. If not, Vanney, who? Who would make you happy?

Can you name any American/Canadian coach that you would want instead? If not, then who, a European? So who? Who's available?

Vanney is like an 8.5/10 (this rating is specific to MLS). Yes, he's made a few odd choices here and there, but I'd say he gets things right more than 85% of the time. So if you want to replace him, you'd have to find someone who's a 9 or 10/10. And how many of those are there, really? Is there any really 'perfect' coach? Even Guardiola can be criticized from time to time.

So it's way too easy to just say 'fire him.' Who are you going to get instead? No one else who would be available would even come close.

[Richard]

Who is out there that could do better? If we're not bringing in a Klopp then there is not point.

Give the many a 5 years extension.

[Oldtimer]

Vanney is like an 8.5/10 (this rating is specific to MLS). Yes, he's made a few odd choices here and there, but I'd say he gets things right more than 85% of the time. So if you want to replace him, you'd have to find someone who's a 9 or 10/10. And how many of those are there, really? Is there any really 'perfect' coach? Even Guardiola can be criticized from time to time.



Fans of one team tend to see things in a bubble and ignore that all coaches, including the big names many would desire make mistakes.



Wenger got his formation wrong http://dailycannon.com/2018/01/wilshere-wenger-might-got-formation-wrong

Alex Ferguson got his formation/tactics wrong https://www.thefalse9.com/2011/05/sir-alex-fergusons-tactical-mistakes.html
(https://www.thefalse9.com/2011/05/sir-alex-fergusons-tactical-mistakes.html)
Klopp got his formation wrong https://tribuna.com/amp/liverpoolfc/en/news/2925629

Mourinho got his formation/tactics wrong https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/dec/19/defence-alexis-sanchez-jose-mourinho-tactics-wrong


(https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/dec/19/defence-alexis-sanchez-jose-mourinho-tactics-wrong)

[C.Ronaldo]

we arent going to champions league , thats on vanney

he stays but you gota beat MTL

[portu]

I still think it's the right time for fresh ideas. Vanney has been lucky to keep his job with the absolute garbage we played for nearly 16 months. That being said, what have you done for me lately matters, and our last game was an MLS Cup Final. He deserves to keep the job, but I'm still skeptical.

[James17930]

I still think it's the right time for fresh ideas. Vanney has been lucky to keep his job with the absolute garbage we played for nearly 16 months. That being said, what have you done for me lately matters, and our last game was an MLS Cup Final. He deserves to keep the job, but I'm still skeptical.

But again, even if they wanted to replace him, who's better that's available?

[shwade]

But again, even if they wanted to replace him, who's better that's available?

We could've had Thierry Henry!! Lol.

[Oldtimer]

We could've had Thierry Henry!! Lol.

20% win rate record as a coach, what could go wrong? :lol:

[Oldtimer]

I still think it's the right time for fresh ideas. Vanney has been lucky to keep his job with the absolute garbage we played for nearly 16 months. That being said, what have you done for me lately matters, and our last game was an MLS Cup Final. He deserves to keep the job, but I'm still skeptical.

We need "fresh ideas" when with 24 teams and a parity league "on average" you'd reach an MLS Cup final every 12 years, and TFC has done it 3 years out of four? That's harsh.

I get being unhappy when he's done experiments during the year that lost us easily winnable games, I didn't like it either (it drove me nuts at times) but on the flip side it's those experiments that led to a flexible team that could change strategies 4 times within one playoff game to be able to win it. There are very few MLS teams that can do that type of thing. When you have a playoff system regular season wins aren't as important.

[Ultra & Proud]

We need "fresh ideas" when with 24 teams and a parity league "on average" you'd reach an MLS Cup final every 12 years, and TFC has done it 3 years out of four? That's harsh.

I get being unhappy when he's done experiments during the year that lost us easily winnable games, I didn't like it either (it drove me nuts at times) but on the flip side it's those experiments that led to a flexible team that could change strategies 4 times within one playoff game to be able to win it. There are very few MLS teams that can do that type of thing. When you have a playoff system regular season wins aren't as important.

And you could also say that him experimenting during the season was what prepared the team to switch formations so easily come playoff time.

[portu]

Guys we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in CCL.

[OgtheDim]

Guys we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in CCL.


And we kicked out of the playoffs the team that beat a full strength LigaMx team - we can play that game forever.

[Oldtimer]

Guys we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in CCL.

Seba gone, Vazquez gone, Jozy out with injury, Omar not here yet --and not even Zavaleta (out) for defensive cover, Pozuelo not here yet. Terrance Boyd was our only offensive "threat" (loosely called) - someone who TFC cut loose in July because he wasn't any good at this level.

So... how do you think in any way that the loss was the coaches fault? Let's be realistic here, no coach in the world would have won that game.

[DIEHARDTFC]

Savour it while you can, coaching stability is a rare luxury enjoyed by very few clubs.


You'd think this franchise out of all in MLS would know that the best. "Supporters" have short memories.

[Bushmancan]

Seba gone, Vazquez gone, Jozy out with injury, Omar not here yet --and not even Zavaleta (out) for defensive cover, Pozuelo not here yet. Terrance Boyd was our only offensive "threat" (loosely called) - someone who TFC cut loose in July because he wasn't any good at this level.

So... how do you think in any way that the loss was the coaches fault? Let's be realistic here, no coach in the world would have won that game.

Only because you pushed hard here (again I have been critical, but don't want him gone). If you know you don't have the horses in this round of CCL, why play your typical high line. (remember there were all sorts of rumors that we were signing someone significant, in the very near future). Play far more conservative - come out of it 0-0, 1-0 or 0-1. If I recall Omar Browne made our defense look silly (btw he is on the Expansion Draft list unprotected).

It felt more like we didn't care about CCL this year and in hindsight that wasn't necessarily bad, injuries devastated us in 2018. The tactics in that game in light of who we were missing might suggest that we played the wrong style. Why is it so bad to sometime park the bus.

I continue to think Vanney is good but he needs a quality team to execute his plans.

Just my thoughts

[Ultra & Proud]

Seba gone, Vazquez gone, Jozy out with injury, Omar not here yet --and not even Zavaleta (out) for defensive cover, Pozuelo not here yet. Terrance Boyd was our only offensive "threat" (loosely called) - someone who TFC cut loose in July because he wasn't any good at this level.

So... how do you think in any way that the loss was the coaches fault? Let's be realistic here, no coach in the world would have won that game.
It was also in February. I think the rest of the season and how it unfolded says more than not being ready for the first CCL match.

[Richard]

I continue to think Vanney is good but he needs a quality team to execute his plans.



You can say this about every coach in the history of the sport.

You can't polish a turd, and that team at the beginning was a steaming pile.

[Derko]

Guys we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in CCL.

That is Football, sometimes a non-league team beats an EPL team, it happens :drinking:

[Bushmancan]

I would like to know from the RPBs does Vanney have confidence in continuing with being our coach, the Seattle Sounders have the right to have a vote of confidence and i just want to know if we had the same priveledge would Vanney continue


Gracos, I think this was a good thread, even though there was skepticism to start. Right now 72-4 for Vanney. I think the debate was solid.