Why the hell can't fill Toronto a 40,000 stadium?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Tomorrow is the final, and here's a problem just to relax a bit our stressed minds about the final :)

:scarf:


Why the hell can't fill TFC a 40,000 capacity stadium at average 90% full in almost all the regular season games even?

Let's cruch some numbers, which are pulled out from nowhere (well I think are kinda realistic):

In Canada's (and the USA) 60% of the male population does not give a flying fart about professional football (soccer).
Then again 60% of the remained half does not give a flying fart about professional football (soccer) outside their origin countries' competitions (intern and national team), top 5 euro leagues, Champs League and Europe League, Euros and World Cups.

Supposing that Metro Toronto has 5 million population, and half of that is male, this leaves 400,000 interested, just men, in which the pop 0-17 and over 70 is also included!
Let's say those 2 categories are making up another 35%.

Remaining: 260,000.
WOW... how many of that are too lazy (or are effin poor to afford tickets) to regulary go to TFC games?
Lets say half!

That still 130,000 folks!

It means that my origial starting 60% and 60%-s are very wrong right?
A lot higher % must not give a flying fart about professional football (soccer) at all, or anything outside their origin countries' competitions (intern and national team), top 5 euro leagues, Champs League and Europe League, Euros and World Cups.

[Richard]

Well to answer your question just look a the abysmal TV numbers, and how poorly marketed TFC is at the moment.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Keeping the same proportions, look at this:

I'm talking about the same numbers like if placing a city with 500 000 pop with one and only football stadium having a capacity of just 4000 ANYWHERE in Europe, or South and Central America + Mexico.
I mean anywhere from the western tip of Iceland to the Ural Mountains, and from the US-Mexico border to the souther tip of Chile.

How sad is this, ...and just shows how incredibly small is local football STILL in Canada (and USA) compared to the other local sports and the countries were footy is the king.

[rydermike]

I think you have to also consider sports in this city. I don't have TFC seasons, so I go to maybe 5-7 games a year, but I'll also go to a few Jays and Argos games every year, plus 1-2 Leaf or Raptors games, the odd national team game at BMO, and probably will do a couple Wolfpack games next year, maybe even try a York9 game. There's such a plethora of sports in this town, that live professional sporting events don't seem as special due to the much greater supply.

TFC also took a hit this year due to the Raptors. With our poor season last year and the Raptors run, there was less of a focus on us over the summer.

Prolonged success will also definitely help. We had an amazing 2.5 years run until the Champs League, then fell apart last year, and in this city you need sustainability to last at the top. Look at the Jays, they fell just as quickly as they rose. The Raptors have been building a sustainable competitive squad for 7 years now. A solid 5 year run for TFC will develop a more consistent fanbase converting the casuals. The key demographic I feel is also the youth right now. Lots of European adults in the 35+ age demographic still shrug off TFC because its MLS, however, many of their kids are keeping up with TFC. Despite those kids still being European league teams first as raised by their parents, they know what TFC is doing - I've seen many cases like this - they just follow both. This is the area of growth where TFC could see their biggest growth (the kids growing up with a TFC that existed in their youth becoming paying fans as they become adults. It's how the Raptors developed their brand, while the older generation ignored basketball and cared about the Leafs, their kids would pay attention to both.

[OgtheDim]

is about all I can say to this

[Defoe]

The fact that 50 % of Canadians have less then $1000.00 in savings (or something like that) and millennials can’t even afford cable T.V probably is an indication they don’t prioritize there $$$$$ on soccer right now. Also many people stream my self included so that will effect tv numbers a lot. Maybe they should make nose bleed seats like 12 bucks or something but at the same time this isn’t exactly a charity. Can they keep 20,000 seats at 40 dollars + and then have 10-15 k at around 12 dollars like the Blue Jays model? I don’t know just putting out ideas

[69Chevy396]

The fact that 50 % of Canadians have less then $1000.00 in savings (or something like that) and millennials can’t even afford cable T.V probably is an indication they don’t prioritize there $$$$$ on soccer right now. Also many people stream my self included so that will effect tv numbers a lot. Maybe they should make nose bleed seats like 12 bucks or something but at the same time this isn’t exactly a charity. Can they keep 20,000 seats at 40 dollars + and then have 10-15 k at around 12 dollars like the Blue Jays model? I don’t know just putting out ideas
When the Yankees or Red Sox come to Toronto, ticket sales are pretty good, unlike most games where the dome is a third full. TFC has few MLS rivalries that stimulate broader fan interest. It isn’t helped by a MSM that completely ignores MLS in its sports broadcasts.....even Sportsnet and TSN rarely mention MLS scores, news, signings, etc., unless it involves the 3 CDN teams.

[TFC1986]

Stadium expanded bigger than it needed to be.

[GBV]

Tickets prices too high, among other reasons.

Not many "casual" soccer fans or curiosity seekers are gonna plunk down the money for the prices they're asking. And unless maybe an Ibra is playing, going to a Toronto FC game, sadly, doesn't seem to have that "cool" factor (that I hate) out there like going to certain other sports.

I'm from the school of "lower the prices, pack the place, sell more food and beer and merch, and a packed house on TV is the ultimate advertisement to help make people want to go" ... but WTF do I know.

[GBV]

When the Yankees or Red Sox come to Toronto, ticket sales are pretty good, unlike most games where the dome is a third full. TFC has few MLS rivalries that stimulate broader fan interest. It isn’t helped by a MSM that completely ignores MLS in its sports broadcasts.....even Sportsnet and TSN rarely mention MLS scores, news, signings, etc., unless it involves the 3 CDN teams.

That drives me crazy. It's not difficult, nor time consuming, to rhyme off scores in other games. FAN 590 etc. just as bad this way.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

The fact that 50 % of Canadians have less then $1000.00 in savings (or something like that) and millennials can’t even afford cable T.V ......

I did not know that...
Is that from a relatively recent statistic?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Tickets prices too high, among other reasons.

This must be one of the main, if not the biggest reason!

Too many much more famous footy teams with huge tradition in the Western Euro countries have smaller or a lot smaller ticket prices... and in all those countries the average incomes are on par with Canada!
Why can't front office be content with smaller gain on any single ticket, but at least "some gain" of course, considering all side expenses, which would pack a whole lot more butts in the stadium? I guess it is a typical Canada-US pro team FO mentality, in sharp contrast with that of pro teams from Western Euro countries.

[GBV]

Well to answer your question just look a the abysmal TV numbers, and how poorly marketed TFC is at the moment.

I think MLS TV numbers will always be a challenge. There are so many other soccer leagues that people can watch. And then when not, there are internationals etc. etc.

One can watch a few games from Europe on a Saturday or Sunday then by the time MLS rolls around later in the day, or night, easy for people to have had their fill. Other sports here don't really have to deal with the omnipresence of other leagues (less so now with just Serie A on 'regular' cable ... but with BEIN, DAZN etc.) ... and leagues that are higher in quality to boot.

[Auzzy]

They expanded the east stands a great deal, with a complicated and overall expensive pricing strategy. So that section has rarely filled up (and doesn't look good on TV). Ever since then (plus years of sucktitude) tickets are easily available per game, so there's less incentive to get season's tickets. In turn, instead of having a SSH who turns up for the majority of home games, you have people who buy tickets for 3-4 games per year; and more likely when the team is doing well.

It seems they were planning to boost the west-side prices to similar levels. We also had a 40% price increase in the light greys for example. Latest news is that instead they are lowering or stabilizing prices in parts of the East (while gradually still increasing prices elsewhere). Perhaps over time, and if the team keeps playing well, the East will fill up.

I think there's also quite a bit of PTSD amongst those who at least casually follow TFC for longer. They were so bad for so long, and the relationship with fans was really damaged with lots of shenanigans. Then you had about 2 years where they were very good. But with 2018 and part of 2019 being mediocre to dismal, the old worries come back; for many the good years started looking like a blip amongst the regular ineptitude. I have friends who used to follow TFC closely, and would attend a few games per year; they just can't be bothered anymore.

Finally, I watch lots of footy from around the world; mostly highlights. What often strikes me: there are many cases where the attendance in top national leagues is very low, and some stadiums are quite small to begin with. I've noticed this in some South American locations for example, and often in Europe. Netherlands / Eredivisie for example. In most of these places, footy is clearly the top spectator sport (unlike here), but you don't hear much angst about attendance. Many teams have strong sponsorships which cover a significant portion of costs (unlike here where you're competing with 4 other bigger team sports for sponsor dollars). Plus in many places, there's much more $ from TV.

I also think TFC's / MLSE's marketing of TFC has been dismal for a while; plus the general minimal coverage on TV. All leads to limited buzz around the team, even though we're in the cup final.

[Thomas]

I think it is in part due to our weather and the schedule. They front end load the early part of the season and the tail end of the season with home games. There are precious few home games on a week-end in prime summer weather.

[NK Toronto]

Maybe Toronto is just a lousy sports town. Except for the Leafs, teams are only supported if they are winning. I recall going to Raptors games a decade ago when they were bad where there was no more than 11 or 12 thousand in the arena. Look how Jay's attendance has dropped in the past few years. Toronto is not a sports town it's a "flavour of the month" town.

[Lil'John]

Maybe Toronto is just a lousy sports town. Except for the Leafs, teams are only supported if they are winning. I recall going to Raptors games a decade ago when they were bad where there was no more 11 or 12 thousand in the arena. Look how Jay's attendance has dropped in the past few years. Toronto is not a sports town it's a "flavour of the month" town.

This, I fear, is the truth.

[NK Toronto]

Looking at the Sportsnet app a few minutes ago and 4 of the top 5 stories are hockey with very little about TFC. In this country hockey is rammed down your throat whether you like it or not. Yet another reason to hate Roger's.

[GuelphStorm2007]

Maybe Toronto is just a lousy sports town. Except for the Leafs, teams are only supported if they are winning. I recall going to Raptors games a decade ago when they were bad where there was no more than 11 or 12 thousand in the arena. Look how Jay's attendance has dropped in the past few years. Toronto is not a sports town it's a "flavour of the month" town.
To me it seems like the Leafs and the Jays are the only sports teams in this town that can get away with mediocracy

[Auzzy]

To me it seems like the Leafs and the Jays are the only sports teams in this town that can get away with mediocracy

I don't know about the Jays either. Attendance has gone up & down like crazy depending on their record and the general buzz. I don't know about their TV viewership numbers though.

[Oldtimer]

I did not know that...
Is that from a relatively recent statistic?

It's recent, and actually worse than $1000:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/200-financial-insolvency-2019-1.4986586

[Oldtimer]

Looking at the Sportsnet app a few minutes ago and 4 of the top 5 stories are hockey with very little about TFC. In this country hockey is rammed down your throat whether you like it or not. Yet another reason to hate Roger's.

Sportsnet are just playing to their demographic. The mostly old Canadian demographic who tend to watch Sportsnet on cable watch hockey and loved Don Cherry (until he was axed).

The mostly young diverse crowd who watches soccer is streaming. That's why DAZN and services like it are the future., and Sportsnet is the past.