Match Day 28 - TFC @ New England Saturday August 31st 7:30pm - Dealing with Plastics

[OgtheDim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DombelFX0AE5bnX.jpg


************

Have at It People

[BelfastBoy]

Due for a result at Foxboro. I'd take a draw, given our historical record with this fixture.

[Mikmacdo]

What kind of lineup does Vanney unleash, maybe he goes for the surprise attack and calls up an entire 11 from TFC2.

[MightyDM]

Q
laryea OG Mavinga Morrow
Bradley Delgado
Gallargo Poz Oso
Jozy

[JuliquE]

Q
laryea OG Mavinga Morrow
Bradley Delgado
Gallargo Poz Oso
Jozy
Bingo.

[Initial B]

I wonder if he's going to try a 4-3-3 with:

Q
laryea OG Mavinga Morrow
Benezet Bradley Poz
Gallargo Jozy Shafft

Bench: Bono, Oso, Auro, Delgado, DeLeon, Moor

[Oldtimer]

Q
laryea OG Mavinga Morrow
Bradley Delgado
Gallargo Poz Oso
Jozy

Most likely formation.

[rydermike]

Westberg
Auro/OG/Mavinga/Morrow
Bradley/Delgado
Pozuelo
Gallardo/Jozy/Benezet

Subs:
DeLeon for Delgado
Laryea for Auro
Moor/Osorio for Benezet or Gallardo (if winning/losing)

[Mikmacdo]

Westburg
Auro-Omar-Mavinga-morrow
———-Bradley————-—
—-Deleon-Pozuelo
Gallardo-Jozy-Benezet

Osorio needs to be first sub off the bench. Laryea can sub in for Gallardo if he cant go the full 90. I would like to see the Shaff come in for Benezet to provide a spark.

[Bobo]

Gil-Bou is hands down the most underrated duo in MLS. This isn't the same NE from the first couple months of the season; TFC are in real tough here. Let's hope whatever statement Vanney was trying to make with the Poz benching is finished.

[red-o]

Their wins in the last couple of months have come mostly from lower teams, VCWC, CF, OCSC, Cincinnati, I know they’re better(edit:than they were), but still more afraid of their pitch than the club.

[MightyDM]

Westburg
Auro-Omar-Mavinga-morrow
———-Bradley————-—
—-Deleon-Pozuelo
Gallardo-Jozy-Benezet

Osorio needs to be first sub off the bench. Laryea can sub in for Gallardo if he cant go the full 90. I would like to see the Shaff come in for Benezet to provide a spark.

If you are going that way it’s gotta be 4-1-3-2 and for me it is then Gallardo Poz Oso in the 3 and Benezt/ Jozy in the 2

[MightyDM]

Gil-Bou is hands down the most underrated duo in MLS. This isn't the same NE from the first couple months of the season; TFC are in real tough here. Let's hope whatever statement Vanney was trying to make with the Poz benching is finished.

Lets hope Poz is on form. It’s really dipped recently. Not through lack of effort, I don’t think, but it has. Since he turned blonde as others have said

[Section_105]

hope we get out of this with at least a point and zero injuries. fuck this field. get some grass on that coastal plot.

[portu]

I'd like to see Q; Auro, Mavinga, OG, Laryea; Delgado, Bradley; Pozo, Oso, Gallardo; Jozy

Yes that's Pozo on the left

[woolly]

On the shit plastic pitch Im totally OK with starting Poz on the bench again... He seems obviously tired and that shit field could end his season.

[Joe Kool]

On the shit plastic pitch Im totally OK with starting Poz on the bench again... He seems obviously tired and that shit field could end his season.

Agreed. All this talk about Poz's performances recently but we have to remember he finished a full season overseas then came here and kept playing for almost a full MLS season so far. Probably needs even more rest than he is getting. Only the team staff and the player himself would know that. Look at what happened to our team with short/limited rest between MLS Cup and the CCL in 2017/2018. Everyone was totally done by the end of the 2018 season and we missed the playoffs. I am sure it takes a toll with non stop training and games.

[Oldtimer]

On the shit plastic pitch Im totally OK with starting Poz on the bench again... He seems obviously tired and that shit field could end his season.

If Vanney doesn't play him people will call for Vanney's head, and if Vanney plays him and he plays poorly or he's injured, the same.

I actually expect Vanney to play him, plastic or not. Resting him for the start against MTL was a calculated tactical risk based on Montreal's slow speed, New England is a different team that doesn't give that option. Hopefully he makes it out without serious damage.

If Toronto goes ahead Vanney might pull him at the 60 minute mark.

[ensco]

I could see sitting Pozo at NE.

Because that would be, like, you know, a reason.

[OgtheDim]

Does Delgado need to start as Bradley's Shield bearer?

[woolly]

I can't see Poz sitting the entire game, especially if we're tied or down a single goal. Putting him in for 30 or 45 minutes at the end of the game might minimize the risk or him being chopped down and/or turf related injury while giving solid minutes to help get some points on the board.

I would actually say the same about Jozy.... Let the kids run the offence for the first half.

[Auzzy]

Har har har... ;)


steve buffery @Beezersun
Alejandro Pozuelo, who was not in the starting XI for #TFCLive last Saturday, when asked if he expects to start this weekend against New England: "I hope so. I hope. If I don’t, I kill the coach." He was joking ...
1:43 PM · Aug 27, 2019

https://twitter.com/Beezersun/status/1166405879735959554

[Mikmacdo]

Is there anything stat to backup a lot of your claims that turf is more dangerous? I highly doubt it, sure its ugly but lets not act like they will be playing on glass.

[MightyDM]

Is there anything stat to backup a lot of your claims that turf is more dangerous? I highly doubt it, sure its ugly but lets not act like they will be playing on glass.

Yes, there is lots of evidence that turf in general is bad for athlete but specifically the New England turf which is out of date and previously hurt our DP’s

[Mikmacdo]

Yes, there is lots of evidence that turf in general is bad for athlete but specifically the Mew England turf which is out of date and previously hurt our DO’s
Does NE have a high injury rate than other teams?

It just seems like if it were the case especially with the Patriots playing there, they would upgrade the field.

[MightyDM]

Is there anything stat to backup a lot of your claims that turf is more dangerous? I highly doubt it, sure its ugly but lets not act like they will be playing on glass.

Yes, there is lots of evidence that turf in general is bad for athletes but specifically the New England turf which is out of date and previously hurt our DP’s

[Canary10]

Yes, there is lots of evidence that turf in general is bad for athletes but specifically the New England turf which is out of date and previously hurt our DP’s

I thought they actually did upgrade that turf last year?

[Auzzy]

Does NE have a high injury rate than other teams?

It just seems like if it were the case especially with the Patriots playing there, they would upgrade the field.

The surface preferences of NFL and soccer are very different. As are the injury types (& frequency), and many other factors.

[Mikmacdo]

The surface preferences of NFL and soccer are very different. As are the injury types (& frequency), and many other factors.
I think 4 out of 7 CPL teams play on turf. I haven’t noticed an increased rate of injury.

[Mikmacdo]

The four-year study, titled “Injury Surveillance in Major League Soccer,” gathered injury data from MLS players during the 2013 through 2016 seasons and was published in the August 2019 issue of The American Journal of Sports Medicine. (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0363546519860522)
A total of 2,174 in-game injuries were recorded during that time, with 1.54 injuries per game occurring on artificial turf and 1.49 injuries per game taking place on natural grass. Researchers found no statistically significant differences between turf and grass for other injuries — including foot, knee, hip and hamstring injuries.

[MightyDM]

Does NE have a high injury rate than other teams?

It just seems like if it were the case especially with the Patriots playing there, they would upgrade the field.

Pats are different though. Different needs. Concrete seems to be ok. Jays and Argos played on lousy turf for years. Aged Moesby prematurely (back) and destroyed Tony Fernandez elbow and they didn’t change the turf. All I know is Koevermans caught his cleats on a seam and tore his knee up

[MightyDM]

I thought they actually did upgrade that turf last year?

Maybe it’s better. It was sure awful though.

[MightyDM]

The four-year study, titled “Injury Surveillance in Major League Soccer,” gathered injury data from MLS players during the 2013 through 2016 seasons and was published in the August 2019 issue of The American Journal of Sports Medicine. (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0363546519860522)
A total of 2,174 in-game injuries were recorded during that time, with 1.54 injuries per game occurring on artificial turf and 1.49 injuries per game taking place on natural grass. Researchers found no statistically significant differences between turf and grass for other injuries — including foot, knee, hip and hamstring injuries.

Lousy turf like New England’s is (or possibly was) is really bad. I can accept that the most modern turf has not too much more rate of short term injuries than grass but long term I would argue it still causes significant problems for knees hips ankles and backs.

They used to argue that the old types of turf were better for injuries and of course we now know they were terrible. Time will show the same even with the new turf.

[Mikmacdo]

The study is on FieldTurf which is what NE has.

[MightyDM]

The study is on FieldTurf which is what NE has.

They may have replaced it, as Canary pointed out. No question field turf is better than old school turf from a short term injury perspective. Long term, remains to be proven. You are still running ultimately on concrete

[MightyDM]

Plus all of this is irrelevant. Our players get hurt there and it’s a crap stadium for soccer. Those are the facts that matter

[69Chevy396]

Plus all of this is irrelevant. Our players get hurt there and it’s a crap stadium for soccer. Those are the facts that matter
The stats do not take into account, the player injury mitigation practices when playing on fieldturf. Knowing how easily one can tear a ligament or hamstring, the players are noticeably reserved, playing a conservative game, particularly with defenders tackling.

[Auzzy]

I think 4 out of 7 CPL teams play on turf. I haven’t noticed an increased rate of injury.

Not relevant to soccer.

The study about MLS that you quoted, looking at 2013 - 2016, is more interesting. I'll have a look. We should also have a look at other studies. (EDIT I've seen some incredibly crappy studies which were sponsored by the artificial turf industry. Not saying that's the case with the one you quoted, but certainly it is for many others.)

I have heard many pro soccer players say, they feel more tired playing on artificial turf. (That will depend on the exact composition of the plastic turf & infill; "softer" can be better for some things, but more tiring to run on.) Also temperature is a huge concern: in the summer heat, grass fields are measurably cooler. I don't know if anyone has been able to mimic the natural transpiration of grass, on artificial turf. Perhaps somebody is trying.

BTW the infill is a concern, among other things (although not for the occasional MLS away game on plastic). Here's one of many articles. Cork or other infill might be better, but much more expensive and less durable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/does-playing-on-artificial-turf-pose-a-health-risk-for-your-child/2017/03/17/0c61b7b4-0380-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html

In a way, it's decided. Most of the top footy leagues play only on grass or hybrid. As do all the men's international competitions. Many top players don't want to play on plastic. Especially in MLS, top players sit out games on plastic more often.

[Auzzy]

Read the comments on the Washington Post article. Some interesting info, & links to other studies and articles...

[OgtheDim]

To me its not about the injuries.

Turf balls bounce differently & the passing is at a different tempo. Depending upon how the turf is taken care of, the turf can either deaden things or make things skip. Ottawa's turf was dry & things bounced weird but slowly. NER's tends to be watered a lot so things skip & bounce weird.

For team's used to a decent grass surface, plastic is not ideal because it doesn't lend it self to the same sort of crisp pass. Turf usually gives an advantage to teams who use it because they can adjust style of play to suit - see Atlanta, Seattle, NER & to a lesser extent, Portland. Vancouver & Cinci have tried to do a counter attack game but their technical skills are not enough to overcome the ball control issues turf creates.

[Mikmacdo]

Not relevant to soccer.

The study about MLS that you quoted, looking at 2013 - 2016, is more interesting. I'll have a look. We should also have a look at other studies. (EDIT I've seen some incredibly crappy studies which were sponsored by the artificial turf industry. Not saying that's the case with the one you quoted, but certainly it is for many others.)

I have heard many pro soccer players say, they feel more tired playing on artificial turf. (That will depend on the exact composition of the plastic turf & infill; "softer" can be better for some things, but more tiring to run on.) Also temperature is a huge concern: in the summer heat, grass fields are measurably cooler. I don't know if anyone has been able to mimic the natural transpiration of grass, on artificial turf. Perhaps somebody is trying.

BTW the infill is a concern, among other things (although not for the occasional MLS away game on plastic). Here's one of many articles. Cork or other infill might be better, but much more expensive and less durable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/does-playing-on-artificial-turf-pose-a-health-risk-for-your-child/2017/03/17/0c61b7b4-0380-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html

In a way, it's decided. Most of the top footy leagues play only on grass or hybrid. As do all the men's international competitions. Many top players don't want to play on plastic. Especially in MLS, top players sit out games on plastic more often.

How is the CPL not relevant to soccer? LOL

[Auzzy]

How is the CPL not relevant to soccer? LOL

Sorry man, I mis-read that. I thought you said CFL teams.

[Canary10]

There are studies that look at the actual torque placed on joints on artificial turf versus grass that show much more pressure on joints on fake grass. That's often what leads to injury. You can feel the difference on your knees and ankles on fake grass. There is no give - you stop almost instantly.

[stevep]

Hey what's happened with ciman
Is he still on the team

[613reppingTFC]

The stats do not take into account, the player injury mitigation practices when playing on fieldturf. Knowing how easily one can tear a ligament or hamstring, the players are noticeably reserved, playing a conservative game, particularly with defenders tackling.

Interesting you mentioned them playing a more reserved game due to the turf, i'll try to pay attention and see if defenders are pulling up a lot more on tackles and not going to ground as often

[Joe Kool]

Hey what's happened with ciman
Is he still on the team

We actually have a little depth at CB for once. Assuming he is just down the depth charts just after Moor and before Zavaleta. There could be some other reason but I haven't heard anything myself.

[Auzzy]

We actually have a little depth at CB for once. Assuming he is just down the depth charts just after Moor and before Zavaleta. There could be some other reason but I haven't heard anything myself.

Ciman is definitely available depth now; but probably also in the doghouse a bit since Houston.

[stevep]

https://twitter.com/ByDougMcIntyre/status/1166744834637516810?s=20

Yay

Very interesting, a lot of negative comments about Omar. Hmmm

[pfk]

https://twitter.com/ByDougMcIntyre/status/1166744834637516810?s=20

Yay

Very interesting, a lot of negative comments about Omar. Hmmm

Boy, the USMNT fan certainly have a real hate on for Jozy, MB, and Omar. Good news that they'll be available for us.

[Canary10]

https://twitter.com/ByDougMcIntyre/status/1166744834637516810?s=20

Yay

Very interesting, a lot of negative comments about Omar. Hmmm

A fair amount of the USMNT support are a bit nuts in my opinion.

[MightyDM]

A fair amount of the USMNT support are a bit nuts in my opinion.


Certainly jerks. Bradley, for example, deserves praise for his commitment to the USA, not scorn.

[stevep]

Certainly jerks. Bradley, for example, deserves praise for his commitment to the USA, not scorn.

Actually very few negative comments about Bradley and Jozy, all were to og

[OgtheDim]

Boy, the USMNT fan certainly have a real hate on for Jozy, MB, and Omar. Good news that they'll be available for us.

It all goes back to



Bob Bradley is his Dad
Jozy is a big black dude who plays with the ball as his feat
DM's are never understood
Gonzalez is not flashy
Jozy suked very publically at the only league that counts to many of these people
Not making it big in European leagues these people respect
Wonderboys in Europe are loved - if you are in MLS, you are a hack


Counterpoint - after the disaster in Trinidad, the only 3 guys who spoke to the media that night are all on our team.

[ag futbol]

Might I add, what the USMNT requires and what TFC needs are different.

I’m not going to put much stock in opinions from some quarters vs. what we actually see on the field week-to-week.

[magmadragon]

As for New England, if we get out of there with no injuries and 0 points I'll be happy. Our record there is terrible. I think something like two wins in our history. Plenty of our guys have gotten injured playing in the dump.

[Blizzard]

They may have replaced it, as Canary pointed out. No question field turf is better than old school turf from a short term injury perspective. Long term, remains to be proven. You are still running ultimately on concrete

Not true if installed as recommended at BMO, on a bed of sand and gravel. Sure, many facilities don't do that for logistical reasons i.e. Skydome, Olympic Stadium, Lamport etc etc etc etc

It's not as good as natural of course BUT it's not concrete either!

[MightyDM]

Not true if installed as recommended at BMO, on a bed of sand and gravel. Sure, many facilities don't do that for logistical reasons i.e. Skydome, Olympic Stadium, Lamport etc etc etc etc

It's not as good as natural of course BUT it's not concrete either!

When we had turf at BMO it was ultimately On Concrete. Not sure where in the world it’s on sand. Not in the USA in football stadiums

[pfk]

If the good guys beat NER on the plastic pitch, they'll jump up in the standings. NER is only one point ahead.

The Limpact play DC United (Rooney is suspended) on Satruday. If those two tie, then TFC will jump to 5th place. AlsoTFC have two games in hand over the Limpact and DCU.

[Blizzard]

When we had turf at BMO it was ultimately On Concrete. Not sure where in the world it’s on sand. Not in the USA in football stadiums

Ultimately, every pitch is on bedrock if you go down far enough!

BMO's field was built roughly like this one (see jpeg).

It was encased in a concrete tub down about 14-16" IIRC but guess what. That concrete tub is still there! They put the natural grass infrastructure (now SIS) inside it so our natural grass is also, ultimately On Concrete!

https://oi860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/greenfield267/artificial%20turf.jpg?t=1567023160

[Defoe]

I wonder if he's going to try a 4-3-3 with:

Q
laryea OG Mavinga Morrow
Benezet Bradley Poz
Gallargo Jozy Shafft

Bench: Bono, Oso, Auro, Delgado, DeLeon, Moor

In what world does Shaff start the next most important game of the season? :facepalm:

[Initial B]

In what world does Shaff start the next most important game of the season? :facepalm:
He's probably the one winger we could afford to lose to injury. I still remember what happened to Koevermanns.

[ManUtd4ever]

In what world does Shaff start the next most important game of the season? :facepalm:

Shaff has been good, but I liked what I saw from Benezet and Gallardo in the starting lineup.

[JavierMartini]

This garbage turf always injures people. No injuries is a win for me.

[Ultra & Proud]

This garbage turf always injures people. No injuries is a win for me.
I think they changed it at some point during the Patriots season last year. I remember hearing that NFL players made a greivance with the NFLPA about it's poor condition and of course because NFL, it got done.

They're probably still wetting it pre-game with saved up Kraft tears he shed for having to spend his some of his Patriots title winning money on something so ridiculous as safer turf.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Shit turf save Jozy.

But this team must look at the standings. This NE team is right there in front of us. Take all 3 points dammit.

That said I won't cry if we escape with one point and a couple goals. This NE side will score but aren't so tight to ensure a clean sheet.

[Mikmacdo]

Jozy and morrow are out. Probably because of the turf. First time we see pozuelo with the two tam signings.

[portu]

Jozy injured again. Cool. Totally cool. Mullins up top. Cool. Totally cool. Totally... playoffs.

[OgtheDim]

Kristian Jack saying its a mild strain.

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1167928371784798208


They are doing a half hour pre game for this one.

[ensco]

Someday, and today is not that day, we will play with out best XI

[69Chevy396]

Kristian Jack saying its a mild strain.

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1167928371784798208


They are doing a half hour pre game for this one.

Thinking of watching this game if I find a stream. Prediction....NE 2 TFC 0. Does it really matter if we make the playoffs this year? The top teams in the East, and even more so, in the West, would beat TFC in the playoffs using their subs. Is Vela for real? The impact he has on his team, and in this league is astounding. Reminds me a lot of someone who used to play around here.....

[OgtheDim]

A win would be nice but its going to be tough to even get a point tonight.

No injuries & no yellow to Laryea (he's 1 away from suspension).

My expectations are really not good for this one.

[MightyDM]

A win would be nice but its going to be tough to even get a point tonight.

No injuries & no yellow to Laryea (he's 1 away from suspension).

My expectations are really not good for this one.

They should be able to take NE apart.

Says a lot about Manning/Curtis that we have to sit Oso and Deleon to play the new guys but still don’t have a second striker (Mullins is a third - I mean a replacement for Seba)

[69Chevy396]

They should be able to take NE apart.

Says a lot about Manning/Curtis that we have to sit Oso and Deleon to play the new guys but still don’t have a second striker (Mullins is a third - I mean a replacement for Seba)

Not sure why they don’t use Osorio as a forward. Most of his goals last year were him getting the last touch in the box after a frenzy of passes or missed shots. He used to flub these chances and punch the ground in frustration, but with all the chances came experience, and he started scoring. Using him anywhere else on the pitch is poor value for the $800k he is earning (CDN), because he rarely has a meaningful impact ((albeit I haven’t watched much, just making this supposition from highlights and reports)

[MightyDM]

Not sure why they don’t use Osorio as a forward. Most of his goals last year were him getting the last touch in the box after a frenzy of passes or missed shots. He used to flub these chances and punch the ground in frustration, but with all the chances came experience, and he started scoring. Using him anywhere else on the pitch is poor value for the $800k he is earning (CDN), because he rarely has a meaningful impact ((albeit I haven’t watched much, just making this supposition from highlights and reports)

He hasn’t been as impactful this season but has been fairly decent. Not a bad idea though. It’s just frustrating that they cannot play their three TAM players together. And sad there is no Seba replacement.

Also not sure about playing Poz in the right of a 3 of TSN is accurate.

[portu]

Not sure why they don’t use Osorio as a forward. Most of his goals last year were him getting the last touch in the box after a frenzy of passes or missed shots. He used to flub these chances and punch the ground in frustration, but with all the chances came experience, and he started scoring. Using him anywhere else on the pitch is poor value for the $800k he is earning (CDN), because he rarely has a meaningful impact ((albeit I haven’t watched much, just making this supposition from highlights and reports)

Osorio as a forward might actually be interesting

[portu]

Less than 2 minutes and already a major defensive error in the box

[portu]

How is a rightback our best 1v1 guy

[JavierMartini]

I'm going to need some tequila after that chant lol

[General Woolfe]

If Jozy is injured fair enough, but Vanney needs to put his best 11 out every week. We’re in a playoff fight and can’t afford to rest players because turf or anything else. If Altidore’s injury is minor he should at least be on the bench. Haven’t heard a good reason why Morrow is missing?

[OgtheDim]

Not much space out there but a decent game to watch. Way too much ball movement in front of our own box.

[jloome]

Not much space out there but a decent game to watch. Way too much ball movement in front of our own box.

Fast and loose. Someone'll make a mistake soon.

[jloome]

Farrell's the only player more overrated than Jordan Morris in the league.

[OgtheDim]

We should be losing this by at least 2

[samuraizero]

We should be losing this by at least 2

Ya, defense is pretty sloppy today

[JavierMartini]

That's fucking garbage. That was clearly onside. Fucking clear as day on the replay. Clearly a red too. Fucking trash league and their garbage refs

[samuraizero]

That's fucking garbage. That was clearly onside. Fucking clear as day on the replay. Clearly a red too. Fucking trash league and their garbage refs

Definitely onside, but can see how the mistake was made. VAR should have been used here.

[PaceyWinger]

I have to agree... no way that that is clear offside at all and then the goalie smashes Gallardo's leg. To me it looked like the CB on the right side is behind Gallardo.

[portu]

This is hard to watch

[Bobo]

I guess the ref ruled it wasn't a red-worthy cause that would have made the offside reviewable. Or maybe ... MLS.

[Mikmacdo]

Awful reffing and caldwell is as blind as a bat, can tsn just put dunfield in his place?

[leafsman]

Once a play is offside you can do whatever you want to the attacker after? How's that tackle not a yellow at least

[OgtheDim]

Once a play is offside you can do whatever you want to the attacker after? How's that tackle not a yellow at least

Its not a red for a reckless foul - we'd call that a yellow, at worst, but for the DOGSO.


*********

Gallardo might have a bit of the Chad Barrett about him - needs one.

[Bobo]

Can someone explain what KJ was on about? We can't disagree with the assistant cause ... ?

[gracos]

how was that offside not eligible VAR, take away the linesmen on the field, and keep it as reviewable by VAR

[rydermike]

Can someone explain what KJ was on about? We can't disagree with the assistant cause ... ?

Honestly, I'm not trying to bring sexism into this, but I feel like if it was a male assistant, KJ wouldn't have been as adamant that the linesman had to be correct. It was so close and the angle they showed was diagonal. I'm not saying she was right or wrong, it was very close - and she did do the right thing, by holding the flag down before announcing her decision. But for KJ to refuse to acknowledge that it was close is bizarre - that was ridiculously close either way. His argument that she is great at her job is irrelevant. No one's good enough to judge a one inch margin from 25 yards away with 100% accuracy and 0 doubt. Also, for him to say that her opinion is better than ours because she's directly on the field. She has one look in real time - millisecond decision. We have slow speed, freeze frame, and multiple views. Sure, she's better than us in real-time, but a multi-angle view multiple times is clearly a more informed opinion - that's why VAR was invented - because multiple views is better than one sudden one in real-time. Again, this is all against KJ not the official.

As much as football lines suck for soccer, they're great for offsides. Would've been the one time having them wouldve helped

[Auzzy]

Even NE homer Paul Mariner realized that was not offside.

[Auzzy]

FFS one of those has to go in.

Nice play there though.

[portu]

Mullins.

[Mikmacdo]

Too many guys on tfc who just cant score.

[Auzzy]

OMG this is nuts.

That's not just on Mullins. Pozuelo should have let it go to him. Mullins had no time to react after Pozuelo stretched for the ball.

[OgtheDim]

The ball goes out wide left for Benezet & Mullins is staying back near the top of the box - make some runs man.

[GBV]

Honestly, I'm not trying to bring sexism into this, but I feel like if it was a male assistant, KJ wouldn't have been as adamant that the linesman had to be correct. It was so close and the angle they showed was diagonal. I'm not saying she was right or wrong, it was very close - and she did do the right thing, by holding the flag down before announcing her decision. But for KJ to refuse to acknowledge that it was close is bizarre - that was ridiculously close either way. His argument that she is great at her job is irrelevant. No one's good enough to judge a one inch margin from 25 yards away with 100% accuracy and 0 doubt. Also, for him to say that her opinion is better than ours because she's directly on the field. She has one look in real time - millisecond decision. We have slow speed, freeze frame, and multiple views. Sure, she's better than us in real-time, but a multi-angle view multiple times is clearly a more informed opinion - that's why VAR was invented - because multiple views is better than one sudden one in real-time. Again, this is all against KJ not the official.

As much as football lines suck for soccer, they're great for offsides. Would've been the one time having them wouldve helped

Agreed.

I usually like him, but that was comedy.

[Bushmancan]

Awful reffing and caldwell is as blind as a bat, can tsn just put dunfield in his place?

Have to do what I used to do in the 80/90s turn off the sound on the TV and listen to Tom and Early with the play by play. It would be nice to get our own commentators to be even a little bit of a homer.

[rydermike]

Moor, Morgan, Deleon, Osorio, Shaffelberg, Akinola.

what subs do you guys want?

[Bushmancan]

Moor, Morgan, Deleon, Osorio, Shaffelberg, Akinola.

what subs do you guys want?


Akinola wins’s the game for us.

[PaceyWinger]

Honestly, I'm not trying to bring sexism into this, but I feel like if it was a male assistant, KJ wouldn't have been as adamant that the linesman had to be correct. It was so close and the angle they showed was diagonal. I'm not saying she was right or wrong, it was very close - and she did do the right thing, by holding the flag down before announcing her decision. But for KJ to refuse to acknowledge that it was close is bizarre - that was ridiculously close either way. His argument that she is great at her job is irrelevant. No one's good enough to judge a one inch margin from 25 yards away with 100% accuracy and 0 doubt. Also, for him to say that her opinion is better than ours because she's directly on the field. She has one look in real time - millisecond decision. We have slow speed, freeze frame, and multiple views. Sure, she's better than us in real-time, but a multi-angle view multiple times is clearly a more informed opinion - that's why VAR was invented - because multiple views is better than one sudden one in real-time. Again, this is all against KJ not the official.

As much as football lines suck for soccer, they're great for offsides. Would've been the one time having them wouldve helped

It was a pretty weird argument really. He says we have to trust her because she is good at her job?? We all watch this sport and know that even the best officials miss calls. To try to shut down any argument is lazy and dishonest. I trust the official too, she's probabaly great at what she does but unless she's omnipotent, I would rather have a second opinion.

[TFC1986]

Cmonnnn TFC. Score...please score

[portu]

There really is very little passion in this side. We deserve shit all.

[Auzzy]

Bruce Arena picked up the Foxborough Stadium ratty sweatshirt style.

[Mikmacdo]

Put osorio in. Benezet is like him but a worse finisher. Gallardo is basically shaffleburg but way more expensive.

[Mikmacdo]

Lol just as i say that benezet scores lol

[rydermike]

Put osorio in. Benezet is like him but a worse finisher. Gallardo is basically shaffleburg but way more expensive.

And 10 seconds later

[tfcfans]

Hooray!!!

[Bushmancan]

He was going to put Moore in at Nil-Nil. now it looks brilliant that we have scored

[portu]

He was going to put Moore in at Nil-Nil. now it looks brilliant that we have scored

Fire this fucking guy. I'm done with this.

[ag futbol]

Gol gol gol gol!

Come on guys, this is huge. Hold that lead!

[Auzzy]

Woohoo! Messy again but it counts.

[rydermike]

Benezet already better than Aketxe and Terrence Boyd combined

[OgtheDim]

Ooookkkkkkkk

[Auzzy]

He was going to put Moore in at Nil-Nil. now it looks brilliant that we have scored


Fire this fucking guy. I'm done with this.

Come on, there's lots I'm not happy with RE Vanney, but that change with Moor in would have been to push Auro and Laryea forward.

Auro has been quite good on the left. I hope Morgan doesn't screw up.

[PaceyWinger]

Lol just as i say that benezet scores lol
its always the way huh? ;)

[OgtheDim]

Fire this fucking guy. I'm done with this.

Would have been a 3-5-2. Still is.


***********

Been hearing Westberg all night. Nice to have a QB at that back.

[portu]

Come on, there's lots I'm not happy with RE Vanney, but that change with Moor in would have been to push Auro and Laryea forward.

Auro has been quite good on the left. I hope Morgan doesn't screw up.

It's a joke. I'm really just fed up with watching this apathetic excuse for football. Some of these guys look like they couldn't give less of a fuck.

[OgtheDim]

5-4-1

[rydermike]

Laryeas runs are unbelievable. If only he could shoot

[TFC1986]

Home stretch

[ag futbol]

Laryeas runs are unbelievable. If only he could shoot
I know, this guy has really turned in on since arriving in Toronto. I would be kicking myself if I was Orlando right now.

Looking forward to seeing him play for Canada against Cuba.

[OgtheDim]

Hmmm...Arena with a defender for a defender change.

[portu]

I know, this guy has really turned in on since arriving in Toronto. I would be kicking myself if I was Orlando right now.

Looking forward to seeing him play for Canada against Cuba.

One of the few bright spots of this side. Can't wait to see him for Canada

[rydermike]

How?

[tfcfans]

....And that’s how you go from having a chance to finish 4th to hoping to finish 7th....

[benito]

Brutal

[Bushmancan]

Caldwell needs to go.

[Mikmacdo]

Alrighy time for bono to get his job back that was pathetic.

[rydermike]

This is 2007-2012 tfc move right there

[Auzzy]

Oh FFS!

All those amazing chances by TFC earlier, and the game is going to get decided by that crap?

[notthesun]

That's an absolute backbreaker. Westberg has been so solid, but that was awful. Christ.

[TFC1986]

:(...tfc

[gracos]

same old same old, we cannot finish out games, and leave pts on the table

[ag futbol]

That’s terrible.

How many more good opportunities for points can we give away?

[OgtheDim]

First time this year - ugh

[gracos]

where is our bonafide goalscorer, we dont have one anymore

[rydermike]

where is our bonafide goalscorer

Saudi Arabia

[Super]

where is our bonafide goalscorer, we dont have one anymore

We have one. Altidore. And he doesn't play very much. We need a striker that can close games for the rest of the 2/3rd of the season.

[Auzzy]

90+ minutes, TFC does a mickey-mouse pass-around corner kick w/o a shot on goal?

[gracos]

a whole year to find a bonafide goalscorer, and management cannot get the job done, our club is going to the playins, and stopping there this year, sorry to say

[notthesun]

Why are we taking short corners with no set play? Pass back to Bradley who can't shoot from distance to chip a prayer into a defensive line pushing us all offside??

[noimpactinmtl]

90+ minutes, TFC does a mickey-mouse pass-around corner kick w/o a shot on goal?

Corners only account for 1-2 percent of goals scored. Worst case is we give up a counter.

[gracos]

TFC just pisses me off, just not great management, so we cannot have a great coach, so no great gameplay, we have to strip our club and get rid of the deadweight

[tfcfans]

Before the game a tie was a good result, but after it, that needed to be a win. Treading water although most other results went our way tonight.

[OgtheDim]

Take the point. NER remains a tough place to get points, for whatever reason.

Have to win in Cinci.

[TFC1986]

#moneyball

[PaceyWinger]

i typically rate Westburg, but that error was unbelievable.

[notthesun]

Shitty way to lose what would've been a massive win. Game could've went either way, but it had gone ours and then Westberg just blew it. Aghhh...

[Bushmancan]

Was Auro hurt, leave him in and put Akinola for the last 10 for a counter. Thought Mullins was good but out of gas. The real story is we all are second guessing Vanney now. Would have been happy with 1 pt before the game, now it feels like a loss.

[OgtheDim]

i typically rate Westburg, but that error was unbelievable.


Every keeper at this level does at least 1 per year like that - you hope it happens when you are already down by 3 or up by 4. Heck, the replays for EPL goals every week usually has 2 like that.

He's not the sort that will let that sit with him for longer then it should.

[gracos]

I think after tonight's error we put in Bono; unacceptable to let a goal go in from outside of the box

[Bushmancan]

I do think the “team” is coming together. But now we need the killer instinct!!

COYRs

[notthesun]

Benezet is improving by the way, seems to be getting more comfortable. I liked what I saw from him. I'm not so convinced by Gallardo though.

[ensco]

46 times

https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1167973214007386112?s=21

[General Woolfe]

Another shitshow! Westberg threw away three vital points with a schoolboy error, however that might not have mattered had Mullens not missed two absolute sitters and Gonzalez had shown a bit of desire when clean in on goal.

Let’s be honest, we have no attacking back up without Altidore. Curtis has messed up time after time and stuffed the team with cheap rejects. Even Pozeulo has looked average the past few games. If we do make the playoffs we’re not going deep into them, so whatever happens to end the season, the one thing I want is Ali Curtis gone and the new man to get rid of the junk Curtis brought it. It’s time to have a serious look at Vanney as well. We were coasting defensively in that game until we scored and Vanney started making changes to park the bus.

I’m so pissed tonight we let a vital 3pts slip away, that would have seen us climb two spots in the standings, by a combination of poor play and poor tactical decisions. The only bright lights were the captain who ran the show in the first half and Layrea who should be in the side ahead of Auro from now on.

[stevep]

I think after tonight's error we put in Bono; unacceptable to let a goal go in from outside of the box

I was at the Ottawa game at BMO Bono is huge. I could not get over how big the guy is.
He's gotta be better than Q based on size alone.

Anyways, pretty sure we make the playoffs now.
If Q makes that save we are 4th in pp/ g in the east and a home playoff game at BMO
#vanneyout. See how silly that is now. Was that Vanneys fault?

No Jozy, against a very good new England team, away game.
Didn't watch the game but before the game odds were Tfc expected points 1.0 new England 1.75

#vanneyin

[gracos]

Please get rid of management; if this club had a vote of confidence to its members I guarantee this would not be passable by any means; TFC needs accountability; and right now we know that TFC doesn't have a way to keep the team accountable

[SoccMan2]

Put Bono in yes keepers make mistakes but come on Westberg has now made a few of them. Put Bono in maybe he brings back his 2017 performance. Moreover, he has the experience in playing in big games and doing well, every game from here on in will be big it’s time for Bono to be brought back in.

[TheGoodson]

At the end of the day New England’s goal summed up this season perfectly

[OgtheDim]

You know, I don't care if its pretty or whatever. As long as at the end we are above that line. Shitshow away point at NER when down Altidore? Take it. Now, we only get 1 point away to Cinci next week? NOT good enough.

What I would take the rest of the way

Cinci - 3
NYC - 1
Colorado - 3
LAFC - no injuries
Chicago - 3
Columbus 3

What do I expect?

Cinci - 3
NYC - 0
Colorado - 1
LAFC - 0
Chicago - 1
Columbus -1


I still think we don't do the playoffs because the defence is still too lax for me.

[Areathrasher]

Why Moor for Benezet? Fuck sake.

Too many chances fucked up too. Should have been two or three nil before Benezet scored.

FUCK. SAKE.

[stevep]

You know, I don't care if its pretty or whatever. As long as at the end we are above that line. Shitshow away point at NER when down Altidore? Take it. Now, we only get 1 point away to Cinci next week? NOT good enough.

What I would take the rest of the way

Cinci - 3
NYC - 1
Colorado - 3
LAFC - no injuries
Chicago - 3
Columbus 3

What do I expect?

Cinci - 3
NYC - 0
Colorado - 1
LAFC - 0
Chicago - 1
Columbus -1


I still think we don't do the playoffs because the defence is still too lax for me.

If og hopeful points occur and dallas does on a playoff run and wins the west and we win the east MLS cup is at BMO again

[Lennon]

Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.

[stevep]

Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.
Agredd. If Q makes that save nobody is mad
I do not consider games at Yankee stadium or foxboro real games anyways

[gracos]

Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.


I understand well is good; but considering how much money we spend on our team; well shouldn't cut it; we should be playing at a top of our league not leaving pts on the table; and being a fortress in every game we play; our management is content for well; I think majority of our fanbase want greatness to perfection

[gracos]

As Tim L had said previously why can't Toronto FC be great

[OgtheDim]

Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.

Nobody remembers 2013 anymore.

We all desperately want 2016-2017 - heck even 2015.

This team ain't it - the rumblings from Jozy & others this week indicates they all know it.

What people forget is most of the league isn't 2016-2017 TFC. Most of the league scores goals either through strange one offs or weird stuff or through their 1 or 2 great goal scorers. We have regressed to the norm.

Should the sum of these parts be better? Maybe.

Should we accept that this is good enough? Nope.

With 6 games left to make the playoffs & the Voyageurs coming up in a few weeks, should we worry about style points? Nope


Get it done if we can and then see what happens in the playoffs and then use a REAL off season to fix stuff, get rid of deadwood & retool with some of the parts we have to be better in 2020.

And if we don't make the playoffs, get in a new coach, use a REAL off season to fix stuff, get rid of deadwood & retool with some of the parts we have to be better in 2020.



***********

People gotta learn how to support a team that is no longer good. We were crud forever and that was easy. We were getting better and then won, and that all was logical.

Now we gotta learn to support a team that isn't what we recently saw.

[69Chevy396]

Nobody remembers 2013 anymore.

We all desperately want 2016-2017 - heck even 2015.

This team ain't it - the rumblings from Jozy & others this week indicates they all know it.

What people forget is most of the league isn't 2016-2017 TFC. Most of the league scores goals either through strange one offs or weird stuff or through their 1 or 2 great goal scorers. We have regressed to the norm.

Should the sum of these parts be better? Maybe.

Should we accept that this is good enough? Nope.

With 6 games left to make the playoffs & the Voyageurs coming up in a few weeks, should we worry about style points? Nope


Get it done if we can and then see what happens in the playoffs and then use a REAL off season to fix stuff, get rid of deadwood & retool with some of the parts we have to be better in 2020.

And if we don't make the playoffs, get in a new coach, use a REAL off season to fix stuff, get rid of deadwood & retool with some of the parts we have to be better in 2020.



***********

People gotta learn how to support a team that is no longer good. We were crud forever and that was easy. We were getting better and then won, and that all was logical.

Now we gotta learn to support a team that isn't what we recently saw.
Add a Carlos Vela to this team, and we have a contender. Most MLS teams have interchangeable players, who are good at some things, and bad, at others. TFC is no different. There is mediocrity in parity, so one standout guy can, and often does, make all the difference. Sadly, our FO was too stupid to recognize this (yes, They should have given Seba that extension).

[gracos]

I will always support the badge that is TFC, supported since the announcement of Toronto getting a team however i will never settle for average performances, we have such a salary we should be able to remain at the top, when we dont, we have to believe something is not right with the club management, i want TFC to strive for perfection but if our team fails, it looks like management is off the mark

[Brooker]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/CNCZO3VqVCdsA/giphy.gif

[Derko]

Too many guys on tfc who just cant score.

No it's miscommunication between the TFC players all the time, they are constantly running into each other

[Derko]

I will always support the badge that is TFC, supported since the announcement of Toronto getting a team however i will never settle for average performances, we have such a salary we should be able to remain at the top, when we dont, we have to believe something is not right with the club management, i want TFC to strive for perfection but if our team fails, it looks like management is off the mark

Coaching, perhaps, not a #Vanneyout guy, but ffs, attack, attack we need wins not draws

[Brooker]

Raise your hand if you knew we were going to concede with that much time for Vanney to kill. Fucks sake.


No it's miscommunication between the TFC players all the time, they are constantly running into each other

I thought that was part of the game plan. Completely and utterly confuse New England.

[gracos]

No it's miscommunication between the TFC players all the time, they are constantly running into each other

I totally agree, the communication skills should fall back on to Vanney, and be able to bring out the best in his players

[Derko]

Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.

Because we have given away far too many points with mediocre draws and not going for the jugular, Vanney again regressed and went defensive when we were up 1-0.
!-0 is not a safe lead, especially in New England, they brought Fangundez into the game and I thought to myself we are going to lose 3 points and maybe come out with 1 point
or a loss, that is why everyone is mad, we have the players but don't have the balls to win anymore. Management and coaching is the problem

[gracos]

Management and coaching have no accountability, i think we should consider showing TFC, we want to strive for better, the results should be a lot better as we spend so much salary on our club, maybe they should consider signing a better Manager(Curtis) and Coach(Vanney)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Because we have given away far too many points with mediocre draws and not going for the jugular, Vanney again regressed and went defensive when we were up 1-0.
!-0 is not a safe lead, especially in New England, they brought Fangundez into the game and I thought to myself we are going to lose 3 points and maybe come out with 1 point
or a loss, that is why everyone is mad, we have the players but don't have the balls to win anymore. Management and coaching is the problem


was my thought as well. Fact of the matter is we always look better on the offensive, even defensively. Take that away and youve got a rickety defense. Its not terrible but its prone to nonsense. Didnt help calls were crap. Still, its on us for not taking a full three.

[MightyDM]

That offside call shows why VAR is so disastrous. The goalie easily could have broken Gallardos leg - all because the assistant is instructed not to raise the flag to give VAR a chance to review. In normal play - ie since time immemorial - she raises the flag and the tackle doesn’t happen. What happens in a future one when the players leg is broken? It will happen.

The assistants need to be free to raise the flag if they are offside. As per normal. Referee the game, not the replay. In that case we might be upset but move on.

In this case, it is a travesty. The replays were absolutely clear. No offside. Red card. If we are going to be in a VAR world, we have to be in a VAR world.

[noimpactinmtl]

Add a Carlos Vela to this team, and we have a contender. Most MLS teams have interchangeable players, who are good at some things, and bad, at others. TFC is no different. There is mediocrity in parity, so one standout guy can, and often does, make all the difference. Sadly, our FO was too stupid to recognize this (yes, They should have given Seba that extension).

I doubt Seba now can be the difference maker he was in 2015.

[Hamilton_Red]

The problem wasn’t letting Seba go...it was not replacing him. We replaced Victor with Pozuelo..but lost our goal scoring depth.

[MightyDM]

The problem wasn’t letting Seba go...it was not replacing him. We replaced Victor with Pozuelo..but lost our goal scoring depth.

Agreed, but also that the problem was planning to keep Seba, telling everyone you were going to keep Seba, and having to scramble when caught by surprise.

The roster isn’t well constructed. Poz replaces VV and blocks Oso but we only really have one striker (Mullins is doing ok but he isn’t a Seba replacement).

They are looking ok but without a goal scorer we are going to struggle for wins.

[OgtheDim]

Agreed, but also that the problem was planning to keep Seba, telling everyone you were going to keep Seba, and having to scramble when caught by surprise.

The roster isn’t well constructed....

3 mistakes

Did not see Victor going

Did not see Seba going

Thought Ciman fixed the defence


The 3rd one turned out to be the more disastrous for this season - a decent defence while working out the offence is the story of Philly this season.

[MightyDM]

3 mistakes

Did not see Victor going

Did not see Seba going

Thought Ciman fixed the defence


The 3rd one turned out to be the more disastrous for this season - a decent defence while working out the offence is the story of Philly this season.

Totally

I can forgive not seeing VV going, in a way, as he was hurt so much anyway his loss has less of a practical impact. But not the other two.

Separately, looking at the standings, we should be able to be the “best of the rest” after NYCFC, Philly, and Atlanta. But we need to win games like last night, obviously.

[Bobo]

Going to pose this again, for my own sanity cause I can't stop thinking about that call: Do we know that the ref just didn't consider Turner's tackle worthy of a red? Goalkeeper challenges outside the box aren't mandatory dismissals anymore, are they? If he deemed it less than a red, VAR becomes moot. Slightly less aggravating if that is the case.

[stevep]

Going to pose this again, for my own sanity cause I can't stop thinking about that call: Do we know that the ref just didn't consider Turner's tackle worthy of a red? Goalkeeper challenges outside the box aren't mandatory dismissals anymore, are they? If he deemed it less than a red, VAR becomes moot. Slightly less aggravating if that is the case.

I am very concerned that TFC is going to get screwed in the playoffs by refereeing favoring the USA teams and calls going against TFC deliberately.

[noimpactinmtl]

I am very concerned that TFC is going to get screwed in the playoffs by refereeing favoring the USA teams and calls going against TFC deliberately.

The one game off format means that one unlucky bounce can make all the difference between advancing or watching at home.

[ManUtd4ever]

Strong effort that was overshadowed by a rare mistake from Westberg.

[notthesun]

Going to pose this again, for my own sanity cause I can't stop thinking about that call: Do we know that the ref just didn't consider Turner's tackle worthy of a red? Goalkeeper challenges outside the box aren't mandatory dismissals anymore, are they? If he deemed it less than a red, VAR becomes moot. Slightly less aggravating if that is the case.

That's not what happened. With VAR now, assistant referees (in MLS anyways) are being instructed to not raise their flag for offside on borderline calls until the sequence of play has been completed. This allows for potential VAR reviews on plays that were incorrectly flagged offside. If linesmen don't do this it creates an imbalance where every goal scored can be checked for a missed offside on VAR, but you can have onside scoring chances blown dead immediately by an incorrect offside call and there's nothing that can be done.

So what happens on borderline decisions and what happened here is the linesman saw the play, determined it was offside in the moment, then waited for the play to develop (Gallardo getting cleaned out) before raising her flag for the offside she had already thought she'd seen. Then the VAR checked the play in the booth and determined there was no clear and obvious error on the offside decision (debatable in my opinion based on some VAR offside reviews I've seen...) and so there was no video check by the head referee that was triggered.

What this means is everything after the pass was played to Gallardo effectively didn't happen. Once they've determined the play was offside, the only thing Turner could've been red-carded for was general violent conduct that would get you ejected at any point.

[ag futbol]

Looking more broadly at the league last night, I don’t understand how the Union get their goal called back by VAR on what looks to be a marginally onside play or too close to call while we (under essentially the same circumstances) have no VAR review whatsoever?!?

This league needs to wake up and start doubling or tripling down on investing in officiating. We are getting what we pay for here and the inconsistency is maddening.

[Bushmancan]

Looking more broadly at the league last night, I don’t understand how the Union get their goal called back by VAR on what looks to be a marginally onside play or too close to call while we (under essentially the same circumstances) have no VAR review whatsoever?!?

I have two issues with the play, one on the field, one off the field.

There is no reason at all that the play should not have at least been stopped and reviewed. When Bradley took the touch and executed the pass, it was so close that it was mandatory that it should be reviewed.. in some circumstances, Gallardo onside, some not. Depending when you say it was released and if then they said offside, then maybe we are not so pissed. There is absolutely no way the linesman could have had at least a partially obstructed view of the entire play. Look at some of the marginal VAR calls on TFC at the beginning of the Year.

The second was KJ and Caldwell. Stop treating the viewing audience like we know nothing about football. More importantly they are the commentators for TFC and not the Revolution or MLS. You are not prepping for a job in England. Be a f—kin’ homer for once. If you believe the above scenario at all, you should be saying it and not being politically correct and rationalize a marginal no call at best.

No one is going to question your skills. Where is the Bob Cole of soccer when we need one?

As an aside, I really think the team is coming together and will click.

[barticusz]

All things considered I thought the team played well yesterday. We’re missing that lethal finisher but I like the direction we’re going in.

Really disappointing that Q missed that one. It would have been huge to get that W and vault over top of NE. The pace on each wing is definitely creating more options for us. Looking forward to Cincinnati. Has to be a win there.

[rydermike]

This is as close as I could pause it to the release off Bradley's foot.
https://i.imgur.com/UZ3i2Tk.png

I think #2 Farrell keeps him onside.

I'm amazed that not once did they pause the play in the KJ-Dunfield discussion. They played it in real speed like 3 times, never in slo-mo, never paused - I did it once. And it shows how it's a debatable call. By not doing it, it allows KJ to be correct, because there's never any evidence presented.

[stevep]

I have two issues with the play, one on the field, one off the field.

There is no reason at all that the play should not have at least been stopped and reviewed. When Bradley took the touch and executed the pass, it was so close that it was mandatory that it should be reviewed.. in some circumstances, Gallardo onside, some not. Depending when you say it was released and if then they said offside, then maybe we are not so pissed. There is absolutely no way the linesman could have had at least a partially obstructed view of the entire play. Look at some of the marginal VAR calls on TFC at the beginning of the Year.

The second was KJ and Caldwell. Stop treating the viewing audience like we know nothing about football. More importantly they are the commentators for TFC and not the Revolution or MLS. You are not prepping for a job in England. Be a f—kin’ homer for once. If you believe the above scenario at all, you should be saying it and not being politically correct and rationalize a marginal no call at best.

No one is going to question your skills. Where is the Bob Cole of soccer when we need one?

As an aside, I really think the team is coming together and will click.

listening to KJ at half time was nauseating. The way he was praising that female assistant referee, also on his twitter handle he has a tribute to his wife calling her the brilliant brunette baker. You can tell by these two things that he is a very gynocentric male. His gynocentrism in this case is blinding him from making a non biased decision. You should completely disregard what KJ says regarding this Gallardo play.

[stevep]

This is as close as I could pause it to the release off Bradley's foot.
https://i.imgur.com/UZ3i2Tk.png

I think #2 Farrell keeps him onside.

I'm amazed that not once did they pause the play in the KJ-Dunfield discussion. They played it in real speed like 3 times, never in slo-mo, never paused - I did it once. And it shows how it's a debatable call. By not doing it, it allows KJ to be correct, because there's never any evidence presented.

good job! question does that female linesman have a headset in her ear?

[rydermike]

good job! question does that female linesman have a headset in her ear?

I always thought the linespeople have one to communicate with the central ref, while the central ref has one to communicate with both the linespeople and the VAR ref. The thing with offsides, is linemen are taught to look at the last defender/attacker and 'listen' for the sound of the pass. Problem is sound travels slower than light. So technically, they will hear the sound of the pass a split second late, causing an onside play to potenially be called offside by sound delay. Now, Gallardo could technically be offside by a whisker, as those EPL VAR offside calls recently have shown. But this freeze frame (which is slightly angled which obviously does not help), clearly shows that there is no way anyone can be 100% sure based on the eye test.

[Auzzy]

listening to KJ at half time was nauseating. The way he was praising that female assistant referee, also on his twitter handle he has a tribute to his wife calling her the brilliant brunette baker. You can tell by these two things that he is a very gynocentric male. His gynocentrism in this case is blinding him from making a non biased decision. You should completely disregard what KJ says regarding this Gallardo play.

Eegads.

Separately: I'll say it again, Paul Mariner, homer announcer for NE, thought Gallardo was onside due to Farrell. You can also see it from the longer diagonal view, with the ball just leaving Bradley's foot, and the shadows of the NFL markings showing Gallardo onside relative to Farrell. Remembering also, even should be onside.

Debatable whether they would call that "clear and obvious" enough to overturn the non-call. However I've seen calls overturned on more marginal evidence.

[C.Ronaldo]

I blame the terrible clearance right before just as much as Q. Not sure who cleared it, but he blasted it right to a NE player. Not side ways, not up , but a line drive.

Q let this one in. But this team is not sharp enough every where else on the field either

[C.Ronaldo]

That's not what happened. With VAR now, assistant referees (in MLS anyways) are being instructed to not raise their flag for offside on borderline calls until the sequence of play has been completed. This allows for potential VAR reviews on plays that were incorrectly flagged offside. If linesmen don't do this it creates an imbalance where every goal scored can be checked for a missed offside on VAR, but you can have onside scoring chances blown dead immediately by an incorrect offside call and there's nothing that can be done.

So what happens on borderline decisions and what happened here is the linesman saw the play, determined it was offside in the moment, then waited for the play to develop (Gallardo getting cleaned out) before raising her flag for the offside she had already thought she'd seen. Then the VAR checked the play in the booth and determined there was no clear and obvious error on the offside decision (debatable in my opinion based on some VAR offside reviews I've seen...) and so there was no video check by the head referee that was triggered.

What this means is everything after the pass was played to Gallardo effectively didn't happen. Once they've determined the play was offside, the only thing Turner could've been red-carded for was general violent conduct that would get you ejected at any point.

Wouldn't you at least get a yellow for a dangerous slide coming in late after a whistle? He could have broken his leg

[C.Ronaldo]

Benezet is improving by the way, seems to be getting more comfortable. I liked what I saw from him. I'm not so convinced by Gallardo though.

Agreed. I prefer endoh to Gallardo right now

[stevep]

I always thought the linespeople have one to communicate with the central ref, while the central ref has one to communicate with both the linespeople and the VAR ref. The thing with offsides, is linemen are taught to look at the last defender/attacker and 'listen' for the sound of the pass. Problem is sound travels slower than light. So technically, they will hear the sound of the pass a split second late, causing an onside play to potenially be called offside by sound delay. Now, Gallardo could technically be offside by a whisker, as those EPL VAR offside calls recently have shown. But this freeze frame (which is slightly angled which obviously does not help), clearly shows that there is no way anyone can be 100% sure based on the eye test.

ok, she initally kept the flag down, then what happened? did she raise the flag after the foul? if yes WTF is going on??

[C.Ronaldo]

Jozy, Deleon, Osorio
These are our goal scorers.
These 3 need to see the field

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Agreed. I prefer endoh to Gallardo right now

Definitely on the other side of this. Endoh is fine off the bench but isn't a starting 11 calibre player for me. Gallardo has shown more in his runs, crosses and shots than Endoh ever has Imo.

[rydermike]

ok, she initally kept the flag down, then what happened? did she raise the flag after the foul? if yes WTF is going on??

They are told not to call offside on close calls until the end of the play. So once the play ended (foul) she said it was offside earlier

[Bushmancan]

I blame the terrible clearance right before just as much as Q. Not sure who cleared it, but he blasted it right to a NE player. Not side ways, not up , but a line drive.

Q let this one in. But this team is not sharp enough every where else on the field either


Q also made an amazing save just two minutes earlier, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Bono in a league game.

Competition is good!

[stevep]

They are told not to call offside on close calls until the end of the play. So once the play ended (foul) she said it was offside earlier

thank you for explaining that to me

[buddies]

I think the keeper should have been punished for his tackle on Gallardo. If the assistant ref is going to keep her flag down until after the play completes then you can't pick and choose what you are going to consider counting as part of the game and what you are going to say "well it was offside so it doesn't count". As far as i'm concerned if the flag doesn't go up the play is live until it does. If the assistant doesn't think it was offside and you score they go back and watch it and call it back if the video guy thinks it is. I mean wtf do we need the assistant for anymore? You could just let the play go and review it because every call they make is getting reviewed anyway. I guess you need somebody to say the ball went out or something but this is getting ridiculous.

I can live with all of the bullshit if you can get a handle on what the rules are but as someone mentioned Gallardo could have suffered a broken leg or ligament damage from a tackle like that. It was during live play before a flag went up or a whistle blew. It's a card for me regardless of the offside call ... and I think it's a straight red.

[Oldtimer]

It will be interesting to see if the league hands punishment after the fact to the keeper.

[Hamilton_Red]

The one game off format means that one unlucky bounce can make all the difference between advancing or watching at home.

This new format won’t last a season if one of LAFC or the Atlanta/Philly go out in their first game of the playoffs.

[MightyDM]

I think the keeper should have been punished for his tackle on Gallardo. If the assistant ref is going to keep her flag down until after the play completes then you can't pick and choose what you are going to consider counting as part of the game and what you are going to say "well it was offside so it doesn't count". As far as i'm concerned if the flag doesn't go up the play is live until it does. If the assistant doesn't think it was offside and you score they go back and watch it and call it back if the video guy thinks it is. I mean wtf do we need the assistant for anymore? You could just let the play go and review it because every call they make is getting reviewed anyway. I guess you need somebody to say the ball went out or something but this is getting ridiculous.

I can live with all of the bullshit if you can get a handle on what the rules are but as someone mentioned Gallardo could have suffered a broken leg or ligament damage from a tackle like that. It was during live play before a flag went up or a whistle blew. It's a card for me regardless of the offside call ... and I think it's a straight red.

I’m with you. It’s a straight red.

Fascinating to me the contortions they are doing with the rules to accommodate VAR

[Hamilton_Red]

I’d like to understand how this played out. The AR didn’t flag right away because they are too not to because they have VAR. They got it wrong as it is clear that it was onside. Di they actually go to VAR on that call? Did VAR confirm the AR’s decision? Or was it skipped altogether?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I have two issues with the play, one on the field, one off the field.

There is no reason at all that the play should not have at least been stopped and reviewed. When Bradley took the touch and executed the pass, it was so close that it was mandatory that it should be reviewed.. in some circumstances, Gallardo onside, some not. Depending when you say it was released and if then they said offside, then maybe we are not so pissed. There is absolutely no way the linesman could have had at least a partially obstructed view of the entire play. Look at some of the marginal VAR calls on TFC at the beginning of the Year.

The second was KJ and Caldwell. Stop treating the viewing audience like we know nothing about football. More importantly they are the commentators for TFC and not the Revolution or MLS. You are not prepping for a job in England. Be a f—kin’ homer for once. If you believe the above scenario at all, you should be saying it and not being politically correct and rationalize a marginal no call at best.

No one is going to question your skills. Where is the Bob Cole of soccer when we need one?

As an aside, I really think the team is coming together and will click.


listening to KJ at half time was nauseating. The way he was praising that female assistant referee, also on his twitter handle he has a tribute to his wife calling her the brilliant brunette baker. You can tell by these two things that he is a very gynocentric male. His gynocentrism in this case is blinding him from making a non biased decision. You should completely disregard what KJ says regarding this Gallardo play.

A call for homerism is a call for bias.

I don't mind homer bias.

I minded how uncomfortable the two looked talking about a referee/linesman because of their gender but that will get better with time.

[OgtheDim]

This new format won’t last a season if one of LAFC or the Atlanta/Philly go out in their first game of the playoffs.

They are going to give this at least 3 years - the attempt is a NCAA BB tourney style do it quick thing. They WANT upsets. They hope to have coverage of these 3 non-final rounds bleed into coverage of the regular season.

I think that if anything they will be expanding the playoffs/cup to 16.


************


About the foul - I think it was at most a yellow. We see cynical defender tackles like that all the time.

[C.Ronaldo]

Definitely on the other side of this. Endoh is fine off the bench but isn't a starting 11 calibre player for me. Gallardo has shown more in his runs, crosses and shots than Endoh ever has Imo.

Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
Endohs shot from distance is something we need

Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable

[Mikmacdo]

Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
Endohs shot from distance is something we need

Im convinced if used properly he can be valuableEndoh has something the other wingers are missing, finishing ability.

[Oldtimer]

A call for homerism is a call for bias.

I don't mind homer bias.

I just don't want our announcers biased AGAINST us to "prove" that they aren't being homers.

[ag futbol]

Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
Endohs shot from distance is something we need

Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable
You we could fine tune the defensive parts of his game and a few other things he’d be great in a midfield 3. Regardless, I like how he’s improved over the past while. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him cement a role in the at some point, be that super sub or as a midfield rotation player.

[Bushmancan]

I just don't want our announcers biased AGAINST us to "prove" that they aren't being homers.

Thank you, that is what i was trying to say....Something that close, they should have been railing against the call. Especially with the work done by "rydermike" with the slow mo. The booth could have/should have done the same

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Endoh has something the other wingers are missing, finishing ability.

Yep exactly



Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
Endohs shot from distance is something we need

Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable

I appreciate hustle like most, Toronto enjoys its players that work hard but he's entering his mid 20s and I doubt he's gonna be able to fine tune much more. He's valuable in a depth sense but no way is he a starter. Gallardo has speed, technique, age and experience. Suspect if you asked him to start popping shots from afar he would and could. Do agree we need to take shots way further out. Gallardo also adds alot to your floundering counter attack game

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Also can't stop thinking about this word. Makes me think of Al Bundy and No Maam


gynocentric

[MightyDM]

Eegads.

Separately: I'll say it again, Paul Mariner, homer announcer for NE, thought Gallardo was onside due to Farrell. You can also see it from the longer diagonal view, with the ball just leaving Bradley's foot, and the shadows of the NFL markings showing Gallardo onside relative to Farrell. Remembering also, even should be onside.

Debatable whether they would call that "clear and obvious" enough to overturn the non-call. However I've seen calls overturned on more marginal evidence.

In the Premier League they are treating offside as a fact - no clear and obvious test, only “is he offside”. Applied here it has to be no. And it’s at least a potential red on the goalie, both for the denied scoring chance and the brutal tackle, so should have been reviewed for certain.

[MightyDM]

Q also made an amazing save just two minutes earlier, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Bono in a league game.

Competition is good!

I have thought that Bono is the better shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.

[MightyDM]

It will be interesting to see if the league hands punishment after the fact to the keeper.

If it was our guy they would.

[C.Ronaldo]

I have thought that Bono is the betrayal shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.

You cant trust passing the ball back to Bono.

Hes the really good shot stopping keeper in house league.
Q doesn't kick the ball out of bounds

[magmadragon]

I've been thinking over the blown offside call and I still don't understand the sequence.

The sideline ref believes it to be offside, but since the league, due to the presence of VAR, instructs refs not to raise the flag on marginal calls, she does not.

The play continues. As such the players on the field can only continue play in the belief it is a live ball. The keeper has a brain fart and commits DOGSO.

But now the ref raises her flag to show that in fact she believed it to be offside earlier on.

Let's assume the potential DOGSO doesn't occur and Gallardo rounds the keeper and scores. Does the ref raise her flag then? Or does VAR take over at that point and say yeah it was offside? If it's VAR in this scenario, then why does VAR not kick in for the DOGSO? It is a red card offense.

I know every play is checked, but I mean the VAR telling the centre ref to review it. By raising her flag, does she prevent VAR from kicking in since everything after the offside doesn't exist?

It almost feels like you need some sort of delayed penalty call like in hockey.

[MightyDM]

I've been thinking over the blown offside call and I still don't understand the sequence.

The sideline ref believes it to be offside, but since the league, due to the presence of VAR, instructs refs not to raise the flag on marginal calls, she does not.

The play continues. As such the players on the field can only continue play in the belief it is a live ball. The keeper has a brain fart and commits DOGSO.

But now the ref raises her flag to show that in fact she believed it to be offside earlier on.

Let's assume the potential DOGSO doesn't occur and Gallardo rounds the keeper and scores. Does the ref raise her flag then? Or does VAR take over at that point and say yeah it was offside? If it's VAR in this scenario, then why does VAR not kick in for the DOGSO? It is a red card offense.

I know every play is checked, but I mean the VAR telling the centre ref to review it. By raising her flag, does she prevent VAR from kicking in since everything after the offside doesn't exist?

It almost feels like you need some sort of delayed penalty call like in hockey.

I agree with your points. If we have VAR, that has to be reviewed. Red for DOGsO and red for tackle as well. TV replays showed it was not offside. So therefore referee needs to VAR it.

but for me, that also is testament that we would be better off without VAR in the first place. She raises the flag. End of.

[OgtheDim]

It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.

[ag futbol]

I have thought that Bono is the better shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.
Generally true but during his last run I would say it was actually his shot stopping that dipped and ultimately lost him his job. There were quite a few bumblers.

[rydermike]

It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.
This. Offside calls are done 'upstairs', the ref doesn't go look. I don't think the MLS has the same tech as the EPL though, so they probably look to see if it's 'clear and obvious' which it wasn't, compared to the EPL who uses tech done to the millimetre.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/sterling.png

[stevep]

This. Offside calls are done 'upstairs', the ref doesn't go look. I don't think the MLS has the same tech as the EPL though, so they probably look to see if it's 'clear and obvious' which it wasn't, compared to the EPL who uses tech done to the millimetre.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/sterling.png

an interesting occurrence has occurred in recent TFC away games.

DC United game, refereeing was atrocious cost TFC 2 points
NYRB game Jozy was called offside on a TFC goal, a very questionable offside
and now this offside play in the New England cost TFC 2 points.

you reverse even one of these events and TFC has a very good shot at 4th place in the playoffs
reverse them all and TFC guaranteed 4th or higher

random coincidence or is something else going on here?
what is the probability that all of these 3 recent events happen by purely random chance to TFC?

[Bushmancan]

It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.

I did a little research and red vs yellow is kind of skewed because of the offside error. ( I do not know what the official rules are for offenses in VAR delays) But even still, it may or may not be a DOGsO straight red, unless we are in agreement that it was vicious and dangerous tackle (i do) or is the opinion that was he playing the ball and missed outside the penalty area. See link http://proreferees.com/2017/04/12/play-of-the-week-2017-week-6/

Anyways, interesting precedent that leagues not just MLS need to figure out.

[MightyDM]

Generally true but during his last run I would say it was actually his shot stopping that dipped and ultimately lost him his job. There were quite a few bumblers.
Fair

[MightyDM]

It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.

How do you know it was reviewed? Genuinely curious.

[OgtheDim]

How do you know it was reviewed? Genuinely curious.

Every play is reviewed by VAR for possible red - that's what they sit there and do all game long. They are actually reviewing every play to see if something is worth going back to. In theory, they can retroactively give a red in the 90th minute for a play in the 1st. This is a decent article on the process. I still think they need to do what Rugby & cricket do and make the process from when a check is called for live to air - in those sports, the onfield decides if they need help - football is trying to do it from an outside perspective saying "Hey, we need to look at that."

https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/3905877/inside-the-var-process-how-the-referee-review-cycle-works-in-mls

[Bushmancan]

I did a little research and red vs yellow is kind of skewed because of the offside error. ( I do not know what the official rules are for offenses in VAR delays) But even still, it may or may not be a DOGsO straight red, unless we are in agreement that it was vicious and dangerous tackle (i do) or is the opinion that was he playing the ball and missed outside the penalty area. See link http://proreferees.com/2017/04/12/play-of-the-week-2017-week-6/

Anyways, interesting precedent that leagues not just MLS need to figure out.

OK, so now i am getting into it, for anyone else interested.... https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/khhloe2xoigyna8juxw3.pdf. Page 134 . Sorry for the length

There are a couple of clear points... smaller text are right out of the handbook

1) Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee. The final decision is always taken by the refer

2) If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sendoff for stopping a promising attack or DOGSO).

3) The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.

The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside).
The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:

A) Goal/no goal (handball, foul, etc.)

An offence by the team that scored the goal in the attacking phase that ended with the scoring of a goal, including
• offense by the attacking team in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, etc.)
• offside: position and offence
• ball out of play prior to the goal
• goal/no goal decisions

B) Penalty kick/no penalty kick
• penalty kick incorrectly awarded
• penalty kick offence not penalised
• location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
• offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
• ball out of play prior to the incident
• offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick
• encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in a play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper

C) Direcct red cards (not second yellow card/caution)
• DOGSO (especially position of offence and positions of other players)
• serious foul play (or reckless challenge)
• violent conduct, biting or spitting at another person
• using offensive, insulting or abusive gestures

D) Mistaken Identify (red or yellow cards)
• If the referee penalises an offence and then gives the wrong player from the offending (penalised) team a yellow or red card, the identity of the offender can be reviewed; the actual offence itself cannot be reviewed unless it relates to a goal, penalty incident or direct red card.

But the big thing i found was that the referee according to procedures:

Original Decision
• The referee and other (including any disciplinary action) as if there was no VAR (except for a ‘missed’ incident)

Critical miss, the play by Turner (the keeper) should not have been ignored (it is right in the rules), at minimum a yellow card should have been applied. The ref and VAR can skate through this on a technicality, they didn't believe it was a DOGsO or serious foul (or reckless challenge) but it is inexcusable that Turner didn't get a yellow.

Whats more and unless I am getting this completely wrong (not MLS Specific handbook), this is where I am pissed at our commentators and our on-field team management at a minimum.

They should know this or in real time have looked up the rules. I did a 15 minute google search. They focussed on the No Call Offside and not the serious foul on Gallardo by Turner, the play was still live and therefor the offense should have been called.

I am done now.... ;-)


COYRs

[Section_105]

he wasn't offside.
I can understand why the ref called it, G was fast as heck on the jump and she was a yard behind the play making the angle look to her like it was off. it wasn't and VAR should have fixed that.
Caldwell should have seen it and didn't. on the replay it's obvious as there are lines on the pitch that make it plain as day.
KJ sure as hell should have seen it and didn't. The contortions he went through were ridiculous and may be the first time I was ever disappointed in him. he was wrong and did such a disservice to his audience. hopefully he gets his shit together and walks this back.

so. not offside. therefore DOGSO red card.

anyway we should have potted a few more goals and made it so this debate was just theoretical rehashing rather than something that might have squashed our playoff hopes. if we miss by a point or two.......

[Bushmancan]

Agreed... Can only blame ourselves on the others.

[MightyDM]

I don’t believe the potential Dogso and the offside were both reviewed in the tiny fraction of time available. Reviewing the offside alone would have take. More time than they took. Not possible. In fact, our guys should have surrounded the referee and the linesman as other teams do to force the VAR people to do a review of both things and create the time available.

[stevep]

he wasn't offside.

KJ sure as hell should have seen it and didn't. The contortions he went through were ridiculous and may be the first time I was ever disappointed in him. he was wrong and did such a disservice to his audience. hopefully he gets his shit together and walks this back.



he won't he is a gynocentric male

[MightyDM]

I am guessing that there was online sexist abuse of the AR which was what KJ was reacting to in his comments.

I object to VAR on principle but if you are going to have it this play needed to be transparently reviewed and an explanation given. It is inconceivable that this wasn’t a DOGSO Red. It was the goal keeper, not a defender and a clear foul. Gallardo goes round him and it’s 97.5 per cent a goal, and it was such a close offside that it needed to be reviewed in detail.

None of that was the fault of the AR, who did her job well and In Accordance with the new practices. But was slightly out of position due to the speed of play so easily could have been incorrect.

[JoesphNdo]

an interesting occurrence has occurred in recent TFC away games.

DC United game, refereeing was atrocious cost TFC 2 points
NYRB game Jozy was called offside on a TFC goal, a very questionable offside
and now this offside play in the New England cost TFC 2 points.

you reverse even one of these events and TFC has a very good shot at 4th place in the playoffs
reverse them all and TFC guaranteed 4th or higher

random coincidence or is something else going on here?
what is the probability that all of these 3 recent events happen by purely random chance to TFC?

The chances are extraordinarily good especially when you filter out confirmation bias that blinds you to all decisions that go in your favour and focuses on only the ones you perceive to be wrong against you

Every fan of every sports team in every league in every country on planet earth is convinced the balance of referee calls goes against them, there is not one exception to this. Why on earth would MLS conspire to specifically keep a big market, big revenue spending/generating team down? MLS want Toronto, Atlanta, LA, New York (Either), Chicago etc to do well and the small market teams to just scrape by

[GhostKiller]

Does anyone have a link to the offside/ potential red card that we're talking about? I can't find it.

[Bushmancan]

Does anyone have a link to the offside/ potential red card that we're talking about? I can't find it.

https://www.tsn.ca/video/jack-dunfield-get-in-heated-debate-over-var-grey-area~1768612

[Bushmancan]

They should know this or in real time have looked up the rules. I did a 15 minute google search. They focussed on the No Call Offside and not the serious foul on Gallardo by Turner, the play was still live and therefor the offense should have been called.

I am done now.... ;-)


COYRs



I stand corrected, i found this on the MLS site....

What if an on-field decision is overturned, but there were other actions that took place after the reviewable play in question? What happens to those plays?
If a decision is overturned after Video Review, then play resumes from that point in the match and any actions that happened after the point of the overturned decision are erased.
Only disciplinary cards issued by the referee are never erased except for cards shown in cases of DOGSO or the stopping of a promising attack: If an attack is erased following an overturned decision, any cards for stopping the attack are also wiped away.

So unless, they overturn the play... Turner's yellow card would be erased. What a joke, looking at the replay again Turner has studs high aimed at Gallardo's legs but whatever.

[rydermike]

https://www.tsn.ca/video/jack-dunfield-get-in-heated-debate-over-var-grey-area~1768612

I just rewatched that debate and a couple of quotes stood out to be that KJ and TSN did not want to get into the debate most likely because of the gender issue.

@1:56 - Dunfield says "If we pause it here, just as Michael Bradley passes the ball, it's very difficult to see if Gallardo is offside"

BUT TSN does not pause the video. Clearly Dunfield has paused it and seen it offscreen, but TSN won't do it for as it could lend credibility to his point.

@3:30 - Dunfield "I think they're in line with one another" KJ "So you'd rather technology beat her? She's on the field" Dunfield "I just want the decision to be right"

KJ would rather go with her decision than technology no matter what. The purpose of VAR is for technology to get the call CORRECT not to protect a referee's feelings. KJ and Kelcey then jump on him for saying she might be wrong. Dunfield never even brings gender into it, he just says it's so close and he thinks he's onside.


I'm all for women to be referees if they are qualified. And she IS definitely qualified. But even the best in the world make mistakes, especially something as tight as this. Heck, it was so close, she could be right and Gallardo was offside. However, it is clearly evident what TSN and KJ were so defensive to not spark a gender debate that they refused to even entertain the thought. Had this been on the other side of the field with the male linesman, I feel like I can guarantee they would've paused the video and debated the call.