Match Day 26 - TFC @ Columbus Saturday August 17 7:30pm - Fight with the Bumble Bees

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5YqXjsJAI0


**********

Have at It People

[Mikmacdo]

Lineup prediction

Westburg
Auro Omar Mavinga Morrow
———-Bradley—————-
Delgado————Pozuelo
Deleon————Shaffleburg
———-Jozy——————-

Hopefully Vanney plays Deleon inside maybe in for Delgado and starts Gallardo or Benezet.

2-2 draw is my prediction.

[Areathrasher]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

[Section_105]

Hamilton with a brace.

cancelled out by a 2nd half appearance by mullins.

I have no idea what to expect from this team. We should go in there and blow their doors off but we should have killed off Houston at home....etc. etc. etc.

Will be interesting to see if we can get any sort of urgency from the team on the pitch.

2-2

[Oldtimer]

The positivity here is overwhelming. :rolleyes:

I predict a TFC win.

[JT Red127]

Hamilton hasn't played a min for the Crew, wonder if they'll give him some time against us?

4-0 TFC, the match it all turns around and we make a run to end the year.
:flare:

[Red CB Toronto]

Three points are a must and as such I see victory for the Reds. Need to get back into the top seven and look to move up closer to a shot at home field in the first round.

[DinamoTFC]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

this made me laugh cause it's so realistic

[OgtheDim]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Areathrasher again.

[BelfastBoy]

2-2 draw. The uncertainty and media coverage ambivalence around this team goes on for another week.

[ag futbol]

I think we win, call it 2-1 TFC.

I mean, we should get this one, no? We are tied on points with MTL and Orlando with a game in hand.

If we can’t get something here in my head it’s very close to RIP 2019 season. Maybe not from a mathematical perspective, but in all practicality the team looks fast asleep at the wheel speeding towards the cliff of no playoffs for the second year straight.

What’s it going to take for these guys to go out and fight for a game?

[notthesun]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

Hahahaha, this got me.

[MightyDM]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

Hahahahahaha

[portu]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

Hahahahaha

[Ossington Mental Youth]

What’s it going to take for these guys to go out and fight for a game?

New season new coach

[OgtheDim]

I think we win, call it 2-1 TFC.

What’s it going to take for these guys to go out and fight for a game?

Voyageurs first game in Montreal.

We went there already and put in one of our best performances of the year.

We have a tendency to feces the bed for the home league fixture.

[daner90]

2-2 draw. The uncertainty and media coverage ambivalence around this team goes on for another week.

Agree completely about this, if I didn't follow TFC on Twitter I would have no idea what is going on. It seems like since we won the championship there was no need for anyone to cover this team anymore.

[stegosaurus]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.

2-1 Crew

Top post.

[Initial B]

If they don't at least tie this game, I think the season is done. Santos has done pretty well taking over the Higuain's role, so they're playing a lot better than they did at the beginning of the season. They seem to be getting into gear while TFC is grinding theirs.

[Red CB Toronto]

Can you feel it, it’s “GAME DAY” ​baby !! Have a feeling it’s going to be a good one !!

[James17930]

I'm so ambivalent right now. I really don't know what to expect.

Just hoping for a draw, I guess.

[firm]

Let’s all pray for a big win for tfc

[barticusz]

Sadly expecting a loss. CLB will score fiery and we’ll have to open up and we’ll grt exposed. 2-0 for the bananas.

[69Chevy396]

I had the urge to call Bell today to sign me up for TSN again. Then, accidentally opened Instagram, where the Giovinco followers are posting his free kick goal video, again. They do this every day. I watched. Fu*k Bell. And f**k Caldwell and TSN. Hope TFC wins, but I simply don’t care anymore.

[Derko]

Just play with commitment to attacking football

[Mikmacdo]

I had the urge to call Bell today to sign me up for TSN again. Then, accidentally opened Instagram, where the Giovinco followers are posting his free kick goal video, again. They do this every day. I watched. Fu*k Bell. And f**k Caldwell and TSN. Hope TFC wins, but I simply don’t care anymore.
IF you dont care why are you on here posting about TFC?

[TFC1986]

I had the urge to call Bell today to sign me up for TSN again. Then, accidentally opened Instagram, where the Giovinco followers are posting his free kick goal video, again. They do this every day. I watched. Fu*k Bell. And f**k Caldwell and TSN. Hope TFC wins, but I simply don’t care anymore.

What does Instagram have to do with Bell?
Also if you have Bell you can add TSN without calling.
What's wrong with a ex-tfc player taking a free kick?
So many questions to be had!!!
Can we get a link to what you are seeing that's so upsetting?
#drama

TFC going to crush it tonight

[Inklink]

Is Gallardo going to play or not?

[OgtheDim]

The parade in has Gallardo.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1162849178411778051

[Mikmacdo]

Wtf vanney needs to go. Complains about wingers all season and finally gets them and he goes back to 2 strikers.

[OgtheDim]

Cue internet meltdown over TAM wide attackers vs. 2nd striker/DeLeoan

Shaff not in the lineup because he is starting in Richmond with TFCII - as is Akinola.

******

I'm OK with this lineup. We've had dribs & drabs from Benezet & Gallardo - until they show they are saviours, lets not deify them quite yet.

[portu]

Refusing to start either new TAM guy has to be a fuck you to Ali Curtis from Vanney. This actually pisses me off. Whine and whine and whine and finally get what you want and never use it. Childish. I have no sympathy for Vanney's shitty display prior to either players signing.

[OgtheDim]

Midfield & attack is narrow & lacks speed. Mullins & DeLeon will be energetic. Only guy on the pitch who will slow down the play is Auro.

Our best defence though. Note who didn't make the trip.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW, Hamilton not even on the bench for them.

[portu]

Terry Dunfield: The expectation for this team is to make the playoffs.

In other words... don't be one of the worst teams in the league. What a low freaking bar.

[JuliquE]

Anyone have a working stream?

Mine are showing everything BUT the game.

[ag futbol]

We've had dribs & drabs from Benezet & Gallardo - until they show they are saviours, lets not deify them quite yet.
This is a bitter pill to have to swallow having waited for wingers for an extended period of time. We now sign said wingers and are in need of reinforcements to make a playoff push.

The reinforcements are either not yet ready to play or aren’t good enough (what other explanation is there?). Meanwhile, other teams we are chasing for points have signed players and they are already on the field making an impact.

The list of excuses from management as to why things aren’t quite yet working yet is becoming increasingly long.

[James17930]

Guys, FFS, if Benezet and Gallardo aren't starting there has to be a reason. Maybe slightly injured. Maybe they haven't fully learned the system yet. Plus how do you take Endoh out right now? He's earned his starts.

Vanney has made some mistakes this season, yes, but this is not some conspiracy, some fuck you to management. It's obviously for a football-related reason.

Let's stop the nonsense please.

EDIT:

I see Endoh isn't starting tonight, but the point is, him and Shaffs have earned their places too, so the new guys can't just walk into the team. It will take a bit of time to get everyone into their roles.

[Leedsoronto]

No J Hams for the Crew ?

[James17930]

Anyone have a working stream?

Mine are showing everything BUT the game.

http://livetv.sx/enx/eventinfo/829966_columbus_toronto/#webplayer_alieztv|97651|829966|1224782|64|1|en

[ag futbol]

Guys, FFS, if Benezet and Gallardo aren't starting there has to be a reason. Maybe slightly injured. Maybe they haven't fully learned the system yet. Plus how do you take Endoh out right now? He's earned his starts.

Vanney has made some mistakes this season, yes, but this is not some conspiracy, some fuck you to management. It's obviously for a football-related reason.

Let's stop the nonsense please.
It’s hardly conspiracy nonsense. It’s a direct comparison of where other teams are with their summer signings vs. TFC.

Unfortunately this matters.

[jazzy]

Gallardo played excellent against Ottawa , yes inferior but his speed and blistering crosses were excellent , enough for Vanney to not start him . Vanney couldn’t create a momentum if he was the drummer in the New Orleans parade .....it’s like he wants to over think and analyze every schematic . When do we sign the robots . Yes let’s keep Shuffling on the bench because he’s young and this’ll be another prospect in Vanneys history that’ll be hard pressed to get his wings . Hopefully he comes in later when they’re tired and not at the 85th minute . (Instead of the usual defender)

[James17930]

It’s hardly conspiracy nonsense. It’s a direct comparison of where other teams are with their summer signings vs. TFC.

Unfortunately this matters.

But Vanney is in on the transfer decisions. Curtis doesn't sign Benezet or Gaillardo without Vanney's okay. So if they don't work out that's as much on Vanney as anyone else.

So them being bad signings is certainly possible, and that's something worth talking about. But please none of this 'Vanney is sticking it to management by purposely not playing the new guys as a form of protest.' Because that is nonsense.

[TFC1986]

Cmonnnnn TFC

[Inklink]

Zero creativity. Also deleon killing every play.

[ag futbol]

But Vanney is in on the transfer decisions. Curtis doesn't sign Benezet or Gaillardo without Vanney's okay. So if they don't work out that's as much on Vanney as anyone else.

So them being bad signings is certainly possible, and that's something worth talking about. But please none of this 'Vanney is sticking it to management by purposely not playing the new guys as a form of protest.' Because that is nonsense.
Not suggesting any of that isn’t true. No idea what Vanney’s motivation is on the lineups but I’d think it would simply be winning every game (even if we don’t agree how he’s trying to do it).

[ag futbol]

Watching this game so far, I think we are clearly the better team (even without our wingers) and should be able to win.

Only question is will these guys show any desire to get 3 points? Pretty casual through the first 30 minutes.

[James17930]

Not suggesting any of that isn’t true. No idea what Vanney’s motivation is on the lineups but I’d think it would simply be winning every game (even if we don’t agree how he’s trying to do it).

Right. But these are the real questions. We shouldn't be distracted by red herrings.

As others have mentioned, Vanney seems to like starting guys who can play a strong possession game, and keep the fast guys on the bench for later in the game once things start to open up. Is this a good strategy? Maybe sometimes, other times maybe not. That's a good discussion to be had (this game is a perfect example of that so far – the starting lineup is extremely slow, we have over 60% possession and only 1 shot on goal, from a free-kick no less).

So this may seem weird or wrong to us, but remember they've scouted Columbus ... maybe they feel this is the best strategy.

[RealG-TFC]

Osorio is just not up for it tonight it seems

[Inklink]

Yes Oso

[portu]

Brilliant Osorio!

[MightyDM]

Oso!

[Brooker]

I don't believe it!

[benito]

Nice strike!!

[TFC1986]

TFC allll day.
Pumped!!!!

[RealG-TFC]

Happy to be silenced!

[FootBallAZ]

Osooriooooo,

Goalie shoulda.been stronger

[stevep]

Osorio is just not up for it tonight it seems

I've learned my lesson. This is why I don't say negative stuff about individual players during the game.
Been there before

[James17930]

Osorio is just not up for it tonight it seems

Yeah maybe he'll only score this one.

[FootBallAZ]

Happy to be silenced!


whose next ,? Pozo ?

[MightyDM]

Osorio is just not up for it tonight it seems

Spot on, eh?

[portu]

Wizard of Poz is just stunningly excellent. This team has the talent.

[Mikmacdo]

What a shot! 3 pts or bust now.

[SKB]

TFC has possession with no purpose. They are able to move the ball down the field but then seem to have no idea from 20 yards in. They have only generated one shot and that was not on target. So no shots after 30 minutes. There is no speed to their attack, no penetration, it is methodological and boring. Vanney said he wanted more speed. However, the two players they brought to provide speed are sitting on the bench, Shaffelburg has been shipped to TFC II and Endoh is on the bench. I do not think TFC has an identity right now and that is confusing the players

[Auzzy]

Holy shit, I'm deleting the tirade I was just composing! I'll keep it on file in case I need it later. :D

Thank-you Osorio, amazing shot! We've seen you do those great long shots in training; finally doing it well during a game!

I'm still worried about the 4 great chances that Columbus had & missed; hopefully this goal changes the momentum, and we see some subs soon after half.

[Brooker]

Full time, ref!


Holy shit, I'm deleting the tirade I was just composing!



Start another!

[DinamoTFC]

Another very boring game. I fell asleep and woke up for the goal.

Excellent strike by oso.

Let's give the TAM players some decent minutes.

[James17930]

TFC has possession with no purpose. They are able to move the ball down the field but then seem to have no idea from 20 yards in. They have only generated one shot and that was not on target. So no shots after 30 minutes. There is no speed to their attack, no penetration, it is methodological and boring. Vanney said he wanted more speed. However, the two players they brought to provide speed are sitting on the bench, Shaffelburg has been shipped to TFC II and Endoh is on the bench. I do not think TFC has an identity right now and that is confusing the players

Yes, these are all valid issues to be looked at and discussed.

[OgtheDim]

Osorio is just not up for it tonight it seems

So around the 50th minute, can you say the same thing about Poz?

[Oldtimer]

Good to see Osorio score.

TFC's backline is dodgy. Hopefully TFC can win by the end.

[stevep]

whose next ,? Pozo ?

You know what
Marky wouldn't do that

[OgtheDim]

They had 2 decent chances (the third one was offside - commentators in Scarborough didn't see the ref's hand up for the indirect or the assistant's flag).

We had 1/2.

Need some clarity on the right - Auro has been almost a 3rd CB & they are going to exploit that. A LOT of messy passing going on. I like Bradley being farther up the pitch. Team is very actively watching Zardes because really that & Santos are their biggest threat.


Josh Williams - blast from the past.

[ag futbol]

I thought Osorio was pretty clean up until the goal. Nice strike, need more of that from him.

[TFC1986]

Westberg is just that good.
I'm feeling 2 more goals from TFC

[SKB]

With the exception of OSO’s nice strike, TFC still have not played well in the first half. Their defence is better with the addition of Gonzales, but they are still really exposed on the counter attack, ever team plays them that way now. In the attacking side of things has not improved from last year. I understand it takes time to integrate new players into a system, but I am just not seeing the progress that TFC is a better team at this point. They are marginally better then last year but not much.

[TFC1986]

God damn Gonzalez

[Mikmacdo]

Westberg is just that good.
I'm feeling 2 more goals from TFC

He had no chance

[James17930]

That was such a shit goal to give away.

[portu]

I think Laryea may have just won Morrow's job with that substitution.

[SKB]

Here we go again, a pathetic goal to give up. Columbus is the better team at this point in the game.

[portu]

This season feels so much like 2014.

[Auzzy]

ARGHHHH! Bradley left Trapp WAY too much time to put in that pass, and Gonzalez too lackadaisical.

Luckily I copied my rant to Notepad, in case I need it later... Unless TFC really wake the fuck up, Columbus can easily score a couple more.

[MightyDM]

I think Laryea may have just won Morrow's job with that substitution.

I dunno. They are attacking down our left non stop now. They must think Auro is weak

[portu]

I dunno. They are attacking down our left non stop now. They must think Auro is weak

Think that's more of an affection for Afful than anything else. I think our backline going into the end of the season is exactly what's on the pitch right now.

[MightyDM]

I think Bono would have saved that goal. It’s a place where he is stronger to me than Q. In tight. Q commands the box much better and has excellent distribution, but I also think is vulnerable sometimes - not sure if it is positioning or reflexes.

[portu]

Delgado coming on. You'd think with Afful pushing so high that we'd bring on idk a TAM winger to take advantage of the space behind or at least hold Afful accountable.

[Inklink]

Something's definitely fishy with the Gallardo situation.

[Auzzy]

Ahhhh man, so frustrating...

[James17930]

Something's definitely fishy with the Gallardo situation.

My guess is he's not fully over his quad injury.

[FootBallAZ]

Delgado in ? Is he trying not to score ?

[jloome]

I dunno. They are attacking down our left non stop now. They must think Auro is weak

He's not a great man marker, let's face it.

They've changed their setup in the middle and we haven't adjusted, still trying to dink central triangles around.

[James17930]

Another big problem in general is our first touches. We get slowed down so much in our passing simply due to the fact that they have to settle the ball first before making the next pass.

[Inklink]

My guess is he's not fully over his quad injury.

Wouldn't they say that then? And not have him available as a sub? IDK it's been drawn out a long time.

[OgtheDim]

4-4-2 ain't working - subs not helped by the forced one of Morrow. I can sorta see the Delgado one as DeLeon was dead on his feet and Delgado in theory is better defensively.

But the last one has to be Mullins (who has played well) for a Left sided attacker to free Pozuelo up to go back into the middle - he's wasted on the left.

[FootBallAZ]

Tfc deserves to lose, vanney , Ali should.be fired Monday and manning really bothers me with how pre season was handled.

[SoccMan2]

Vanney needs to go and take the whole front office with him , this team is done win or lose tonight .

[Brooker]

What would be the score if we played a club who could finish? My f*ck. lol.

Please score Michael.

[jloome]

4-4-2 ain't working - subs not helped by the forced one of Morrow. I can sorta see the Delgado one as DeLeon was dead on his feet and Delgado in theory is better defensively.

But the last one has to be Mullins (who has played well) for a Left sided attacker to free Pozuelo up to go back into the middle - he's wasted on the left.

Cue the change.

This makes sense, push the wings up where they can cause some danger when Columbus is tired.

[notthesun]

We should be losing, this is a garbage 2nd half. Same shit as against the Red Bulls.

[FootBallAZ]

Moor for mullins ? Lol

[OgtheDim]

Another big problem in general is our first touches. We get slowed down so much in our passing simply due to the fact that they have to settle the ball first before making the next pass.

I'm wondering about the quality of the pitch - seems bouncy & dry.

[wopchop]

Moor for mullins ? Lol
Great

[Inklink]

LOL Moor will help score goals.

[MightyDM]

I think he had to bring in Moor. We were getting overrun on Auro’s side. Back to 3-5-2

[jloome]

What would be the score if we played a club who could finish? My f*ck. lol.

Mavinga is so good and athletic sometimes and so bad others, I swear he fixes matches or some shit; or, like malice, it's usually not, and he's just brain dead.

[Bushmancan]

You have to be kidding me we are playing for a draw. No matter what the result I am now on the fire Vanney side. We need 3 points not 1.

[James17930]

We are now officially playing for the draw.

[Auzzy]

What happened to the Pozuelo magic of his first few weeks? I feel he often holds the ball too long; 70% of his passes and shots are chips; his accuracy isn't that great anymore; sometimes he tries to dribble into a thicket of opponents; and often the rest of the TFC players just stand and watch him rather than running or getting open for him. The last point is probably the main reason for all the others.

Most of the TFC players just way too passive. Columbus could easily be 5-1 by now. Again I don't understand some of rose-coloured glasses I see here on the board.

I guess Mullins was running too much, time to take him off!

[OgtheDim]

Moor for mullins ? Lol

3-5-2 with Poz up front

[jloome]

Maybe they have appearance bonuses and Curtis has told Vanney not to play them unless he has to, some weird shit like that. Delgado looked great against Ottawa, but it was Ottawa.

[wopchop]

LOL Moor will help score goals.
Don't worry, he has about 30 goals over his 15 year career!

[Mikmacdo]

Fuck you vanney. Moronic lineup and subs. A draw does nothing. Cant wait til tfc misses the playoffs and vanney is canned.

[Inklink]

Preach Caldwell.

[jloome]

He's not playing for a draw; this is tactical to use speed. Like Og said this is a dry pitch.

[MightyDM]

What happened to the Pozuelo magic of his first few weeks? I feel he often holds the ball too long; 70% of his passes and shots are chips; his accuracy isn't that great anymore; sometimes he tries to dribble into a thicket of opponents; and often the rest of the TFC players just stand and watch him rather than running or getting open for him. The last point is probably the main reason for all the others.

Most of the TFC players just way too passive. Columbus could easily be 5-1 by now. Again I don't understand some of rose-coloured glasses I see here on the board.

I guess Mullins was running too much, time to take him off!

Poz is showing signs of not having a break. They haven’t really managed his minutes.

[Inklink]

Not a single successful cross from Deleon, Morrow, or Auro.

[SKB]

Three changes in formation, Poluezo not in #10 position, new signings on the bench, TFC is a complete mess. I have no idea if it is the GM or Vanney but like some one said we are back to 2014. Need to clear house and rebuild. Starts at the top!

[MightyDM]

Preach Caldwell.

What did he say?

[DinamoTFC]

I'm not even angry anymore. This is comical. TAM players on the bench.

Vanney needs to be fired. Any coach is needed for the interim for a breath of fresh air. We can't beat the worst clubs how are we going to beat the good clubs down the stretch.

[Bushmancan]

Now they put on attackers. This is sooooo sad.

come on boys gets mad.

COYRs

[OgtheDim]

Well we looked the better team there for a bit - they were forced to make 2 subs because of it.

Team just is more comfortable in that 3-5-2.

*******


Yup....dead

[Auzzy]

TFC actually showed some intent and possession for 10 minutes. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky.

LOL no.

[gracos]

Tfc deserves to lose, vanney , Ali should.be fired Monday and manning really bothers me with how pre season was handled.

I have been calling this all season, but everyone was against my commenting, this season is a writeoff, please evaluate the club from top to bottom, for having so much financial benefits, to be not performing at all; you have to know something is wrong with this club

[jloome]

We deserved that. Jozy with the boneheaded touch back , two touches later on the break...

[MightyDM]

Team breakdown. And Q should have had that.

[tfcfans]

Season over.....we keep waiting for something to happen just like last year....this team is not going to the playoffs and with 7/12 getting in that’s simply pathetic with what they are spending on their roster....the TAM signings are not a factor obviously, and other than Gonzalez I see no really useful addition since Pozuelo and Q in the net - I guess beating a USL team and (maybe beating) one MLS team in a two game series is the highlight of this year just like last year....pathetic for a club who aspires to be a top tier team in this league....

[SoccMan2]

Fire Vanney now !!!!

[Bushmancan]

Play for 1 ... get none! Fire Vanney tonight do not wait for the end off season!!!

[FootBallAZ]

Lol saw this coming, vanney man

[Inklink]

"FIRE VANNEY" next home game pls. Loser mentality looks good on him.

[jazzy]

Yup we don’t need 3 points , that(maybe) 1 point will send us to the top . I did predict (easy) that the final sub would b a defender . , because that’s our strength ? Best D in the league , simply put that’s why we r in the stagnation we r in this AND last season . Why would any exciting player ever want to play for Vanney . But he won’t be fired this year , this is the mediocrity upper mgmt wants . (And why next year they may lower prices , )as long as they can play and keep some fans who accept this modelled as real salt lake 2 . Or worse Argos 2 .

[red-o]

TFC actually showed some intent and possession for 10 minutes. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky.

LOL no.
You can paste your rant now?

[Oldtimer]

There goes our Trillium Cup.

[notthesun]

Westberg has to save that.

[DinamoTFC]

The Crew are absolute shite this year.
2-1 Crew

Hahahhahahaahhahahhahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahah ahhahah

go fuck yourself Vanney

[shwade]

Team lacks ambition and heart from the head office and it trickles down onto the field.

[benito]

Very frustrating season.

[MightyDM]

I’m not in the Vanney Out camp by any means. But we have been coming out of the dressing room and surrendering goals far too often for quite a while. And that is the responsibility of the coach.

[Auzzy]

3 central defenders, none of them go to challenge Accam.

I don't see the pitch problems. I see plenty of flat / straight / true passes on the ground. TFC just slow & inaccurate.

Mavinga lucky.

[stevep]

The #vanneyout is brutal tonight

[James17930]

Why did Moor not shift over there? He was the closest defender and he just let the guy run all the way toward goal.

[jloome]

I said last year we'd started playing arrogantly ever since the title. The same problem continues. Players who believe they could play at Madrid, trying dink passes, one touches, passes without enough weight. We need an own goal or a strip in our end just to seal this excellent display of how arrogant our players are.

[OgtheDim]

There goes our Trillium Cup.

Nah...goal difference the last game of the season.

[jloome]

I'm not sure it's Vanney. I think we have the wrong mix of personalities. In 2017 we had the perfect mix of selfless and hungry.

There's no selfless left here, outside of maybe some of the kids.

[gracos]

Fire Vanney, Curtis, and Manning, these guys are all buddy buddy, and we have no chance of improving, i would like to ask this question once again, Who other than Curtis was considered for the position, its so obvious and yet a lot of people said its still early, improve when you see a problem not wishing and hoping it will fix itself

[MightyDM]

Team lacks ambition and heart from the head office and it trickles down onto the field.

Van der Weil might have been right.

[OgtheDim]

Live standings

We are STILL within 2 points of a playoff position & 3 back of Montreal who we play next week at home.

Vanney is not out yet.

[gracos]

Vanney out regardless of standings, he had so many opportunities to correct the ship and he still hasnt done so

[jloome]

Van der Weil might have been right.

More like he was indicative of the problem.

We had a championship team of mostly level headed players. We replaced them with "more talent" but way less stability.

Fuck yes Jozy gets us a point maybe. Phew.

[tfcfans]

I still stand by my earlier rant.....:drinking:

Go Dallas!

[Inklink]

First cross in a month and it's a goal. Praise the lord.

[MightyDM]

I said last year we'd started playing arrogantly ever since the title. The same problem continues. Players who believe they could play at Madrid, trying dink passes, one touches, passes without enough weight. We need an own goal or a strip in our end just to seal this excellent display of how arrogant our players are.

I think you are overstating it but there is something about the mentality. Something happened last year, and it still there

[Brooker]

Hah.

[benito]

Nice cross and nice header.

[FootBallAZ]

Wow jozy

[James17930]

Jozy is the greatest human ever.

[Auzzy]

LOL tied up, just the way Vanney drew it up!

The mediocrity will continue.

[SoccMan2]

Vanney still needs to go along with the head office they should never be in this position fighting for a playoff spot.

[jazzy]

Like all sports the only way Vanney gets fired is if Manning and Curtis jobs r on the line ....there is no one in this organization who has the balls to make big statements . The people above Manning , know more about the Argos (sadly ), than any footie.

[Inklink]

lol 3-3 now in MTL .

[TFC1154ever]

LOL. I don’t give a fuck about we drew this game. Vanney needs to be canned right after this game. Tactically this game was a disaster. Players look like they don’t give a fuck.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

If we fail to make the playoffs they should roll back seasons ticket prices to year one fees again 😂

[Auzzy]

You can paste your rant now?

Honestly not sure if this team is worth my effort...

[ag futbol]

lol 3-3 now in MTL .
Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, lol.

[OgtheDim]

I'm not sure it's Vanney. I think we have the wrong mix of personalities. In 2017 we had the perfect mix of selfless and hungry.

There's no selfless left here, outside of maybe some of the kids.

To me it always comes back to the defence. Their first goal was just one of those things but the second one was a defensive system breakdown.

[shwade]

More like he was indicative of the problem.

We had a championship team of mostly level headed players. We replaced them with "more talent" but way less stability.

Fuck yes Jozy gets us a point maybe. Phew.

I don't think so. I think that's the kind of ambition that is needed and missed right now - it was just a miss with the Beitashour/Van Der Weil move.

[Bushmancan]

I went slo mo on the play on mavinga in the 88 minute, when he complained about the corner. The Columbus player #25 took him out. 1) he slid with studs up. 2) if he didn’t get the ball then it is a foul just inside the box. 3) if he did get the ball then it is a corner for us.

Where the f-ck is VAR? Mavinga was right to complain and if it wasnt a corner then it was a foul. Stupid. I am still pissed even with the draw.

Vanney all year, give me my wingers and he doesn’t play them. We need a shake up now and not end of season.

[Auzzy]

Why the fuck isn't this ref calling any fouls?

[notthesun]

Absolutely stole this draw... And Montreal blows a 3-0 lead on the same night? We're lucky as hell.

Shameful treatment of Pozuelo by the ref. Ignored legitimate fouls over and over.

[RealG-TFC]

As disappointing as TFC have been, how tf does Pozuelo get kneed in the hammy and it doesn't get called.

[portu]

Kloke says the wingers have appeared for a combined 27 MINUTES

[Oldtimer]

Impact tie (coughing up a 3 goal lead at home), so next game has huge ramifications.

[Auzzy]

So frustrating, on so many levels.

[OgtheDim]

So frustrating, on so many levels.



plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

[OgtheDim]

So 3 teams we are chasing also tied tonight. Chicago winning & Orlando just took a lead in Minnesota to climb up. 4th to 10th is 6 points spread.

I get people are ticked at Vanney but it ain't happening this week.

[barticusz]

When is the media going to grill vanney and Curtis. How the hell do you spend on to TAM players and the play them so little. Are we really that poor at identifying talent?

Our Tam history is pathetic.

[notthesun]

Kloke says the wingers have appeared for a combined 27 MINUTES

Vanney, Curtis, I don't know who deserves the blame or to what degree for each of them but this is sheer fucking incompetence.

We dropped how many points in the first half of the season because of having zero depth, when we waited to sign reinforcements in the summer window? And now the guys we bring in - TAM players for fuck's sake, this isn't Armando Cooper plucked out of Panama - don't even fucking play?

What an absolute joke. Some of the worst mismanagement I've ever seen from TFC, and that's fucking saying something.

Oh and I checked and those 27 minutes are all Benezet. We signed Gallardo on July 9th and he's yet to play a single second in MLS hahahaha

[General Woolfe]

Make no mistake we got out of jail tonight, even so, it’s still not good enough. That could easily have been 6-2 for Columbus the number of absolute sitters they missed. We were a shambles and it’s all on Vanney tonight and his absurd line up that played our best player out of position and was unwilling to change it with the most obvious solution of pulling Mullins, bringing on Gallardo and pushing Pozeulo into the middle. Instead he went three at the back and cost us a goal. He certainly hasn’t been helped by Curtis who has stacked the team with cheap mediocre journeymen like Mullins, Boyd, and DeLeon. Gonzalez also has been an absolute bust, and is rapidly becoming a liability. I think I’d feel safer with an aging Moor in there instead, as Gonzalez hasn’t a clue and if we’re honest has always been suspect his entire career. That late goal and other results did us a favour tonight, just like last week, but we can’t go on like this and I fear the end for Vanney is near. I can only hope Curtis goes with him or nothing will change. In fact the only chance I can see for Vanney surviving another playoff-less season is if Curtis does the honourable thing and falls on his sword first, because despite Vanney’s faults, Curtis is ultimately the man who has turned a team of champions into a bunch of also rans.

[SKB]

I do not care that we tied it up late. TFC still played terribly. Even if we make the playoffs, by pure luck, we are not going anywhere. This team is only marginally better then last year despite a number of player acquisitions. Vanney made a number of questionable moves today and did not get the strategy right. I read he has been studying Man City and wants to emulate their style. He is trying to fit the players to his vision. But we do not have the players to play like Man City. The new GM has not done well in getting new talent. What I would like to see is some of the reporters call out Vanney, and management for some serious mistakes. Actually, the great Scot on TSN did a good job of identifying some of the crazy moves being made and the lack of talent brought in. Changes need to be made now because it does not matter if we make the playoffs.

[red-o]

At least we kept Columbus from coming up the table - Other results are good for us so far. More hype for the Montreal game!

[SKB]

You are right about Gonzalez, I take back my comment earlier he has helped us. He has slow feet and we have no speed at centre back. Again another crap acquisition.

[tfcfans]

Huge goal by Minnesota...and just like that....PK to Orlando....VAR, overturns it — how lucky have they been tonight with those three ties...

[stevep]

Make no mistake we got out of jail tonight, even so, it’s still not good enough. That could easily have been 6-2 for Columbus the number of absolute sitters they missed. We were a shambles and it’s all on Vanney tonight and his absurd line up that played our best player out of position and was unwilling to change it with the most obvious solution of pulling Mullins, bringing on Gallardo and pushing Pozeulo into the middle. Instead he went three at the back and cost us a goal. He certainly hasn’t been helped by Curtis who has stacked the team with cheap mediocre journeymen like Mullins, Boyd, and DeLeon. Gonzalez also has been an absolute bust, and is rapidly becoming a liability. I think I’d feel safer with an aging Moor in there instead, as Gonzalez hasn’t a clue and if we’re honest has always been suspect his entire career. That late goal and other results did us a favour tonight, just like last week, but we can’t go on like this and I fear the end for Vanney is near. I can only hope Curtis goes with him or nothing will change. In fact the only chance I can see for Vanney surviving another playoff-less season is if Curtis does the honourable thing and falls on his sword first, because despite Vanney’s faults, Curtis is ultimately the man who has turned a team of champions into a bunch of also rans.


gonzalez was terrible tonight

[OgtheDim]

You are right about Gonzalez, I take back my comment earlier he has helped us. He has slow feet and we have no speed at centre back. Again another crap acquisition.

He's actually faster then the 2 CB's we faced tonight. With better positioning and the ability to pass. People gotta give their heads a shake here. When we lose or draw, the whole team is awful except our favourites. When we win, a few more are less awful.

In the scheme of this league, we are an underperforming, defensively unsound, unbalanced midfield with a couple of beyond this league class players that can make the difference - in some ways, like every other near or in the playoffs team in this league this season not named LAFC - they all have something not right with them. And just like Dallas tonight, we stared at the Abyss of a lost season and somehow came back from that brink. That's MLS.

We live to fight another day.



*********

I still think we don't do this but the pieces we have are better then the results.

[69Chevy396]

IF you dont care why are you on here posting about TFC?
Are you inferring that only homers are permitted to post here? Been here much longer than you, and have no intention of leaving. I want to care, but this organization is poisoning the water.

[portu]

I railed against Gonzalez but if you think he's the problem then Og is right, give your head a shake. Gonzalez has turned into a good signing imo.

The players are not the problem.

[stevep]

I railed against Gonzalez but if you think he's the problem then Og is right, give your head a shake. Gonzalez has turned into a good signing imo.

The players are not the problem.

gonzalez on the first goal, moor on the second goal, what was moor doing

[Mikmacdo]

So we dont sign janson because the shaff? Who they send down to tfc2 and to sign two lower level tam wingers who dont even play in a near must win game. Moor cant play anymore. Auro was really good today, he deserves praise. Vanney needs to stop fucking around with pozuelo and play him high up the middle.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I railed against Gonzalez but if you think he's the problem then Og is right, give your head a shake. Gonzalez has turned into a good signing imo.

The players are not the problem.

This is where my head is at. Players can only do so much with the tactics they're given

[ag futbol]

I railed against Gonzalez but if you think he's the problem then Og is right, give your head a shake. Gonzalez has turned into a good signing imo.

The players are not the problem.
It’s tough to say. On the one hand, certainly we’ve seen more motivation and drive from this group. Maybe the coach isn’t getting the most out of them?

On the other, we see a lot of mistakes. Honestly whether or not Ali Curtis is worth anything to me hinges on how Gonzalez plays. It was a signing of a player every GM in MLS should be familiar with. If we don’t get that right, good night.

[DinamoTFC]

The main thing that bothers me is how boring and unmotivated the players are playing. They've accepted status quo and that is all on Vanney. Listen to him speak. He puts me to sleep. His halftime videos are sleepers too. We are always playing flat.

[portu]

TFC in two words: Uninspired Football.

[ag futbol]

The main thing that bothers me is how boring and unmotivated the players are playing. They've accepted status quo and that is all on Vanney. Listen to him speak. He puts me to sleep. His halftime videos are sleepers too. We are always playing flat.
Well, alternatively, they might know shit is shakey internally and be thinking about that rather than what’s happening on the field.

[DinamoTFC]

Well, alternatively, they might know shit is shakey internally and be thinking about that rather than what’s happening on the field.

That would make them terrible professionals risking their careers and current living residence and didn't pass so called character tests. I doubt that.

[SKB]

How do you know Gonzalez is faster then the other 2 CB? Did you time them in 1/4 mile runs? Also I did not talk about how fast he is I said he has slow feet. Soccer is about your first 2 steps and how quick your feet are. Gonzalez was getting beat behind and in the box when players dribbled past him, slow feet.

Also to say that TFC is just playing like any other MLS team would be valid except our payroll is one of the largest in the league so you cannot compare them. We have made poor investments. The team is way underperforming compared to dollars spent.

TFC told us they would not go back to the old days that would build the team every year they had learned their lessons. It appears they have not. The problem they have now is that they have some overpaid players that limit their ability to reload because they are up against the cap. Extending Altidore was a good move. I love Bradley but you cannot pay that kind of money for someone who does not score many goals or assists. They have way overpaid for Osorio. Poor management of the team has gotten us in this kind of trouble. They season is done, they are not making the playoffs. There are too many things to fix and the team has no plan.

[SKB]

Saw Vanney interview post game and he said that the team played well in the first half. Are you kidding me. I have been backer of Vanney but based on that comment he has to go!

[SKB]

TFC in two words: Uninspired Football.

Agreed!

[ag futbol]

That would make them terrible professionals risking their careers and current living residence and didn't pass so called character tests. I doubt that.
Not necessarily the case. It happens in professional environments all the time.

They don’t want to be dogging it but if you’re wondering where you’re going to be in 6 months or if your getting a new boss sometimes it weighs on you mentally.

[SKB]

Reporter asked Vanney why he did not put any of they new players on the field and he indicated both are not good defensively and largely attack minded players. He thought they would be a liability on the field against Columbus. I would not call Columbus a juggernaut scoring machine. So clearly Vanney does not like the players brought in and they were not his choice. Or he has zero faith in the back line and holding mid player (Bradley). Vanney wants boring control based football not fast paced attacking football.

[Brooker]

Saw Vanney interview post game and he said that the team played well in the first half. Are you kidding me. I have been backer of Vanney but based on that comment he has to go!

Posession-wise, it looked like we were playing at home. I actually agree with him there. The second half the pitch completely tilted and we couldn't adjust.

But my impression after the game was the old cliche, looks like he's lost them and they look confused.

We were being bombarded and Vanney just sat on his ass.It was a blitzkrieg against KKKolumbus! Why even bother with the playoffs at that rate?

I'm pretty neutral right now because if we fire him, who do we replace Vanney with?

[Oldtimer]

Reporter asked Vanney why he did not put any of they new players on the field and he indicated both are not good defensively and largely attack minded players. He thought they would be a liability on the field against Columbus. I would not call Columbus a juggernaut scoring machine. So clearly Vanney does not like the players brought in and they were not his choice. Or he has zero faith in the back line and holding mid player (Bradley). Vanney wants boring control based football not fast paced attacking football.

Glad a reporter asked the question. People have been crapping on Vanney saying "look, Curtis got Vanney what he asked for. Why isn't he using them? Vanney's answer says it all, Curtis brought in the wrong players. Fire Curtis, not Vanney.

It's untrue that Vanney doesn't want fast attacking football, all season he's been pushing his players to move quickly and attack.

[Oldtimer]

Something I've noticed is that both TFC and Columbus conceded goals on poor defense, with players not being properly marked. Since they have different coaches, but Bez played a role in constructing both defenses, it could be a feature of Bez teams that they focus more on offensive roles and do not put as much emphasis on getting quality defense.

[MightyDM]

He's actually faster then the 2 CB's we faced tonight. With better positioning and the ability to pass. People gotta give their heads a shake here. When we lose or draw, the whole team is awful except our favourites. When we win, a few more are less awful.

In the scheme of this league, we are an underperforming, defensively unsound, unbalanced midfield with a couple of beyond this league class players that can make the difference - in some ways, like every other near or in the playoffs team in this league this season not named LAFC - they all have something not right with them. And just like Dallas tonight, we stared at the Abyss of a lost season and somehow came back from that brink. That's MLS.

We live to fight another day.



*********

I still think we don't do this but the pieces we have are better then the results.

There is something off, and it will come out in time. Not sure. The players do seem to be listening to the coach and I don’t agree with those who say they are not trying, but whether it’s arrogance or missing Seba or Vanneys style, coming out at half time with a one goal lead in an almost must win game and shipping a goal three minutes later speaks to mentality.

[ag futbol]

It's untrue that Vanney doesn't want fast attacking football, all season he's been pushing his players to move quickly and attack.
Knowing what the problem is and actually being able to implement changes to solve it are two different things.

I find it extremely tough to understand whether it’s the GM or coach that have failed here. But that said, Vanney does live in the theoretical too often and I think that bubbles up on occasion when shit happens. He will say exactly what the problem was in the post game presser and indemnify what needs to improve but seems to fall down at implementing the changes to change the play of the team.

This is a common problem you see in business with people who are overly academic.

[MightyDM]

Some random thoughts:

Insipid play. That’s the word I have been looking for. Insipid

Vanney is quite smart and observant - in the 2016 Montréal game second leg he correctly identified a Montréal weakness in defending set pieces that led to Hagglunds goal (and Jozy’s, although Seba changed the play).

Vanney is so analytical that perhaps it’s a weakness in the dressing room in that the team doesn’t come out motivated emotionally, only stimulated analytically

His teams have always shipped goals, from the moment he was hired. That weakness was obscured when we had the best player in the history of MLS

Bradley’s contract isn’t bad and I do not know why people keep saying that. He has been instrumental in all of our success and was worth every penny. He is still playing at an incredibly high level but that’s not the point - we got credibility, playoffs, MLS cup final, MLS Cup, CCL success ultimately because of the credibility and drive for success that he brought and that he represented

I am starting to like Mullins

[carbontax]

On the plus side, how does the Nordecke feel giving up that late goal to what looked like the rotting corpse of TFC? A bit of revenge for one of my top nightmare moments of TFC fandom during the days when people bothered to hate the Crew

https://youtu.be/pP71O_gYErg

[Bobo]

Some random thoughts:

Insipid play. That’s the word I have been looking for. Insipid

Vanney is quite smart and observant - in the 2016 Montréal game second leg he correctly identified a Montréal weakness in defending set pieces that led to Hagglunds goal (and Jozy’s, although Seba changed the play).

Vanney is so analytical that perhaps it’s a weakness in the dressing room in that the team doesn’t come out motivated emotionally, only stimulated analytically

His teams have always shipped goals, from the moment he was hired. That weakness was obscured when we had the best player in the history of MLS

Bradley’s contract isn’t bad and I do not know why people keep saying that. He has been instrumental in all of our success and was worth every penny. He is still playing at an incredibly high level but that’s not the point - we got credibility, playoffs, MLS cup final, MLS Cup, CCL success ultimately because of the credibility and drive for success that he brought and that he represented

I am starting to like Mullins

Vanney would reinvent the wheel as a square to show people how forward-thinking he is. I'd be fine with his excessively analytical style if he was actually outcoaching opposing managers.

As for Bradley, we aren't in 2017 anymore. His quality has dipped considerably over the past two seasons. He's still a good MLS holding midfielder, but as far as bang-for-the-buck goes, it's not very good. The contract, as it stands in 2019, is bad, but he's still a low-end DP so exactly how much he earns isn't hugely impactful.

[ensco]

A road draw is OK.

Three high quality goals (especially Santos, I don’t get why people are complaining about “allowing a goal in the first three minutes” when it's a sublime pass and first time volley of that caliber).

Only one to complain about. Bad luck on the second Columbus goal (it nicked Moor, which fooled Q) but Accam getting space like that on the counter is horrendous.

[Ultra & Proud]

Main thing for me is that when we introduced Endoh & Schaff earlier this summer and Vanney made a choice to play fast & wide, we showed some success and looked much better. It even took some pressure off our defense as when we committed dumb turnovers they were further up field than when do our pointless possession game. Neither Endoh or Schaff are defenders of the year but we were okay. Now you have two TAM players who may have a little more touch in front of goal and we don't use them. Worse, looks a bit like Schaff & Endoh are back into the wilderness too and we're right back to what didn't work in 2018 and early this season. I don't really want Vanney out because I worry Fraser will be the easy answer but it takes a certain kind of manager to stare into failure without blinking for this long due to stubbornness and single mindedness.

[Bushmancan]

Glad a reporter asked the question. People have been crapping on Vanney saying "look, Curtis got Vanney what he asked for. Why isn't he using them? Vanney's answer says it all, Curtis brought in the wrong players. Fire Curtis, not Vanney.

It's untrue that Vanney doesn't want fast attacking football, all season he's been pushing his players to move quickly and attack.

When your own coach is afraid to play attacking against a bottom third team, that says everything. For sure that is Pep's Man City handbook.

[ag futbol]

Vanney would reinvent the wheel as a square to show people how forward-thinking he is. I'd be fine with his excessively analytical style if he was actually outcoaching opposing managers.

As for Bradley, we aren't in 2017 anymore. His quality has dipped considerably over the past two seasons. He's still a good MLS holding midfielder, but as far as bang-for-the-buck goes, it's not very good. The contract, as it stands in 2019, is bad, but he's still a low-end DP so exactly how much he earns isn't hugely impactful.
I find it hard to assess Bradley’s value. His ability to cover ground and break up the play is still quite good. The question is, does that + leadership worth the money we are giving to a DP? Or does it make more sense to get a quality destroyer with TAM money and free up the DP spot for someone who can put the ball in the net?

Watching some of the better wingers who have just joined the league on higher salaries, there is considerable distance between what they can provide and what we can expect from Gallardo and Benezet on their best days.

Having someone who is as likely to fill the net as often Jozy or Pozuelo would be big in terms of improving the team.

[GerMc]

Just watched the game and it was shameful. We honestly did not even deserve a tie.

For a long time, I was a fan of Vanney's but that time has passed. A few things I couldn't understand from a coaching perspective:
-the starting line-up. He played a narrow, slow lineup
-Vanney says he wants a fast attacking game, but then leaves any players with pace on the bench (Endoh, Shaff (not even on the bench), our two new TAM acquisitions)
-positioning--what was the formation--what was Pozuelo doing, what was Osorio doing. Both have skills (Poz more than Osorio) but that formation didn't bring out the best in either of them
-the substitutions--in a must win game, you bring on a slow defender (Moor) at the end of the game for a striker who wasn't having a bad game.
-many have mentioned it, but I think Vanney has lost the locker room. The team is uninspired and unmotivated on the field. One of the coach's jobs is to inspire and fire up the team--Vanney can't seem to do that.

I am embarrassed, but when Columbus scored their second goal, my first thought was--well maybe they will finally get rid of Vanney now. If not for some lucky breaks in the other games, we would be close to out of it, even with the tie.

[OgtheDim]

Ya'll gotta watch Jozy on the post game interview. Basic point is the attack isn't good enough when the midfield is dominating.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1163095706959134720

"We need those guys who we brought in to give us a lift."

[OgtheDim]

Reporter asked Vanney why he did not put any of they new players on the field and he indicated both are not good defensively and largely attack minded players. He thought they would be a liability on the field against Columbus. I would not call Columbus a juggernaut scoring machine. So clearly Vanney does not like the players brought in and they were not his choice. Or he has zero faith in the back line and holding mid player (Bradley). Vanney wants boring control based football not fast paced attacking football.

That's not accurate.

Vanney has issues but warping off of 5 words of what was a 5 sentence response to this is ...well not accurate.


He expected to put them in tonight but they are not all that good defensivly and when the problem was the defence & getting possession, needed to plug that first. IF the team had been controlling the ball, they would have gone in.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1163088156239044608


Much bigger issue - team can't cross worth beans in Libbyland.

[Mikmacdo]

That's not accurate.

Vanney has issues but warping off of 5 words of what was a 5 sentence response to this is ...well not accurate.


He expected to put them in tonight but they are not all that good defensivly and when the problem was the defence & getting possession, needed to plug that first. IF the team had been controlling the ball, they would have gone in.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1163088156239044608


Much bigger issue - team can't cross worth beans in Libbyland.Auro had a nice cross to Jozy for the goal. Morrow’s crosses have been awful this season.

[backbeat]

That's not accurate.

Vanney has issues but warping off of 5 words of what was a 5 sentence response to this is ...well not accurate.


He expected to put them in tonight but they are not all that good defensivly and when the problem was the defence & getting possession, needed to plug that first. IF the team had been controlling the ball, they would have gone in.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1163088156239044608


Much bigger issue - team can't cross worth beans in Libbyland.


there's also an argument to be said for putting in speedy attacking wingers to reduce pressure on the defence....they are TAM players after all - in my mind something is askew here. if they're fit you'd think they'd start. just seems odd to me.

[TFC1154ever]

Auro had a nice cross to Jozy for the goal. Morrow’s crosses have been awful this season.

Like I said in the transfer window convo a couple months back, if we’re TFC, I’d trade Morrow at the end of the season for some TAM/GAM, and bring in a new LB. You don’t want to wait to long to trade him, cause he’s starting to regress.

[Mikmacdo]

Like I said in the transfer window convo a couple months back, if we’re TFC, I’d trade Morrow at the end of the season for some TAM/GAM, and bring in a new LB. You don’t want to wait to long to trade him, cause he’s starting to regress.

That would be wise. Call me crazy but i think the shaff would be a nice modern day left back.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Co-sign with whoever said Fraser would be the easy answer as a coach. My second concern to Vanney going is who our FO replaces him with.

[Mikmacdo]

Co-sign with whoever said Fraser would be the easy answer as a coach. My second concern to Vanney going is who our FO replaces him with.

What about drew moor as coach?

[Oldtimer]

What about drew moor as coach?

Isn't that like hiring Ryan Nelson? A player with no coaching experience?

Fraser is the obvious choice, he already knows the players and the club and had experience as head coach for Chivas USA.

Other assistants with experience that could be considered would be Kerry Zavagnin (currently with Sporting KC) and Pat Noonan (Philly).

After that you are rolling the dice with a young foreign coach willing to come to MLS. There's a few successes (that typically move on back to Europe or elsewhere once they make their mark) and a larger number of failures. Not sure you'd get long term success with that path but you might get a good year or two.

Or you could pull someone from the college ranks or USL. There's a few names out there. They won't have D1 experience though and not all of them will be a Bruce Arena.

[Derko]

I didn't watch the game, but what I am reading is that we have capable players to play MLS style football, but have a coach that unispires and is living in a dreamworld studying ManCity, and trying to emulate Eruo football, we don't have the ability to do that.

[noimpactinmtl]

A road draw is OK.

Three high quality goals (especially Santos, I don’t get why people are complaining about “allowing a goal in the first three minutes” when it's a sublime pass and first time volley of that caliber).

Only one to complain about. Bad luck on the second Columbus goal (it nicked Moor, which fooled Q) but Accam getting space like that on the counter is horrendous.

Our fullbacks were caught up high, which left space behind out wide. Every team that instructs their fullbacks to push high are going to risk this kind of counter attacks. It’s why the 4-2-3-1 is so popular, with a pivot shielding the backline and allowing the CB to push to half space to contain an attack wide rather than cut inside.

Bradley is slowing down, Drew Moor is on the twilight of his career, Ciman is a bald fraud and Zavaleta is bang average on 250k. Two years is a lot of miles in footballing terms, and increased mileage will always create problems.

Father Time waits for nobody, and our aging backline has to answer to time.

[MightyDM]

Vanney would reinvent the wheel as a square to show people how forward-thinking he is. I'd be fine with his excessively analytical style if he was actually outcoaching opposing managers.

As for Bradley, we aren't in 2017 anymore. His quality has dipped considerably over the past two seasons. He's still a good MLS holding midfielder, but as far as bang-for-the-buck goes, it's not very good. The contract, as it stands in 2019, is bad, but he's still a low-end DP so exactly how much he earns isn't hugely impactful.

The contract was 2014 - 2019. It cannot be said that it was a bad contract unless 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 were bad too - its one contract. And its impossible to argue that it was bad to bring Bradley here - he has been immense for this club . It was a fantastic signing.

Now, should they sign him to the same kind of contract for 2020 and beyond? Perhaps not. But thats a different issue entirely.

[portu]

Co-sign with whoever said Fraser would be the easy answer as a coach. My second concern to Vanney going is who our FO replaces him with.

Fraser as interim would literally mean firing Vanney is just a wake up call to the team. It would represent no substantial change in tactics, style or philosophy.

[Oldtimer]

Interesting to read the Crew's Big Soccer forum. They are upset about the result too, they think their players played unmotivated. The only difference is that they are blaming the players instead of the coach. I did laugh at the title of their thread though:


ALERT! League-Mandated Rivalry Cup: Crew v Toronto Argonauts Co-Tenant FC

[Mikmacdo]

Isn't that like hiring Ryan Nelson? A player with no coaching experience?

Fraser is the obvious choice, he already knows the players and the club and had experience as head coach for Chivas USA.

Other assistants with experience that could be considered would be Kerry Zavagnin (currently with Sporting KC) and Pat Noonan (Philly).

After that you are rolling the dice with a young foreign coach willing to come to MLS. There's a few successes (that typically move on back to Europe or elsewhere once they make their mark) and a larger number of failures. Not sure you'd get long term success with that path but you might get a good year or two.

Or you could pull someone from the college ranks or USL. There's a few names out there. They won't have D1 experience though and not all of them will be a Bruce Arena.How did SAN Jose get the coach from Guadalajara? Someone like that would be an upgrade.

[DinamoTFC]

Fraser as interim would literally mean firing Vanney is just a wake up call to the team. It would represent no substantial change in tactics, style or philosophy.

At the moment that is all that is needed. This team is good enough. They just need a wake up call and fresh air. The team can look for a new coach during the off season.

I still can't believe after backing Vanney so hard that van der wiel might actually be right with his "you'll be fired before the end of the season" quote.

[noimpactinmtl]

At the moment that is all that is needed. This team is good enough. They just need a wake up call and fresh air. The team can look for a new coach during the off season.

I still can't believe after backing Vanney so hard that van der wiel might actually be right with his "you'll be fired before the end of the season" quote.

Even if he was right, I still don’t want him back. Every stop he’s been at, problems arose. There’s a reason why he’s being a wasteman on his IG stories.

[Auzzy]

Interesting to read the Crew's Big Soccer forum. They are upset about the result too, they think their players played unmotivated. The only difference is that they are blaming the players instead of the coach. I did laugh at the title of their thread though:


ALERT! League-Mandated Rivalry Cup: Crew v Toronto Argonauts Co-Tenant FC

I hate to admit it, that's a quality troll job! Murphy Malone couldn't have done better.

[Oldtimer]

How did SAN Jose get the coach from Guadalajara? Someone like that would be an upgrade.

San Jose is 6th place in their division. TFC is 9th. You fire your coach to move up 3 spots? Is the ex-Chivas coach really that amazingly better?

If Vanney gets us to 6th, then it follows from this reasoning that we should support him.

[Mikmacdo]

San Jose is 6th place in their division. TFC is 9th. You fire your coach to move up 3 spots? Is the ex-Chivas coach really that amazingly better?

If Vanney gets us to 6th, then it follows from this reasoning that we should support him.
SAN Jose was terrible last year though.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

What about drew moor as coach?

God no. I have aspirations of Tata or Almeyda

[Ossington Mental Youth]

SAN Jose was terrible last year though.

And have a crap team. Ask any supporters from Liga Mx, Chivas was middling to trash and he made them amazing. Doing the same with San Jose. I only dream of what he would do with our players

[portu]

God no. I have aspirations of Tata or Almeyda
Give me Gattusso

[SKB]

That's not accurate.

Vanney has issues but warping off of 5 words of what was a 5 sentence response to this is ...well not accurate.


He expected to put them in tonight but they are not all that good defensivly and when the problem was the defence & getting possession, needed to plug that first. IF the team had been controlling the ball, they would have gone in.

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1163088156239044608


Much bigger issue - team can't cross worth beans in Libbyland.

Your rebuttal makes zero sense, the point was that he did not bring the new signed players on, period. Saying he expected to put them but the situation did not dictate would be appropriate if they were tier 2 players or bench warmers. These are tier 1 Tam players they are not a game time decision. He does not have confidence in these new additions.

The team’s ability to cross has nothing to do with whether or not he plays these players are on the field? Perhaps the new players are betting at crossing, we cannot tell at this point because neither of them have played a full game in an MLS game.

Later on you remark about the lack of offence based on Jozy’s comments. These players were brought in to add speed and scoring capability yet they sit on the bench. So again your comments make zero sense.

[OgtheDim]

Your rebuttal makes zero sense,.

Well first of all, my point was your post wasn't accurate. The crossing stuff was an afterthought riffing on what Vanney said & the Altidore thing was totally seperate (and I actually didn't comment on that - just brought it out)


My main point was Vanney never said anything indicating something that you wrote


You said,

"So clearly Vanney does not like the players brought in and they were not his choice."

All I did was repeat what Vanney said which was quite the opposite. He expected to, wanted to and would have brought them in. He didn't because we had been forced into a weird defence when Morrow went down & then the team needed to plug defensive holes (in his mind) - that's why I linked to the actual video.

People can make up their own minds about the veracity of the comments but nothing in that indicates Vanney doesn't rate the Tam dudes and won't play them at all.


******

[Brooker]

Interesting to read the Crew's Big Soccer forum. They are upset about the result too, they think their players played unmotivated. The only difference is that they are blaming the players instead of the coach. I did laugh at the title of their thread though:

Clever name for a thread I must say. But they play in an absolute dump. I don't care if it's the original SSS. 10 years ago it was still intriguing but barely.

And Big Soccer.... Is Bill Archer still alive? I stll remember their rivalries section. It was like crazy people smearing feces on canvases. Just chaos.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

.

And Big Soccer.... Is Bill Archer still alive? I stll remember their rivalries section. It was like crazy people smearing feces on canvases. Just chaos.

Inquiring minds...

[Oldtimer]

Clever name for a thread I must say. But they play in an absolute dump. I don't care if it's the original SSS. 10 years ago it was still intriguing but barely.

And Big Soccer.... Is Bill Archer still alive? I stll remember their rivalries section. It was like crazy people smearing feces on canvases. Just chaos.

Bill Archer is still alive but much less prominent these days. He occasionally comments in threads and doesn't focus on hating Toronto like he did in the past.

There's a plan for an improved stadium for 2021, but there's no escaping that no matter how nice their stadium is, it's still in Columbus.

[DinamoTFC]

Even if he was right, I still don’t want him back. Every stop he’s been at, problems arose. There’s a reason why he’s being a wasteman on his IG stories.

I agree fully.

[Derko]

Even if he was right, I still don’t want him back. Every stop he’s been at, problems arose. There’s a reason why he’s being a wasteman on his IG stories.

I think DinamoTFC was referring to the VDW quote about Vanney being fired moreso than wanting VDW to return to TFC, at least that was my interpretation of the post

[Areathrasher]

God no. I have aspirations of Tata or Almeyda

I'd defo love someone in that mold.

[Blkndkr]

Frankly, it may be all that the team needs.
Fraser as interim would literally mean firing Vanney is just a wake up call to the team. It would represent no substantial change in tactics, style or philosophy.

[Section_105]

I have no idea what to expect from this team. We should go in there and blow their doors off but we should have killed off Houston at home....etc. etc. etc.

Will be interesting to see if we can get any sort of urgency from the team on the pitch.

2-2

I've rarely been this pissed since 2014. should have been 6 or 7-2 if the crew could find their shooting boots.

sigh.

How can we increase the urgency in this team? is there anything from a fan perspective we can do? it's all there for us with the other results going our way so if there is anything we can do we should do it.

While I expect wholesale changes this off season, this team has the capacity to do something great. fulfilling that potential will be the hard part.

great teams find a way to win - MB 2017

[Initial B]

Watched the entire game and my son (a GK) said Q was to blame on the second goal because he dove backwards for the ball instead of forwards and didn't get his fingertips on it. I can't put my finger on the general malaise of the team (and it *is* a malaise from top to bottom) but there is definitely something fishy going on here. Og's quote from Jozy sums it up:
"We need those guys who we brought in to give us a lift." Why do the new guys need to be the ones to give them a lift? Why can't they lift themselves? This team has been mired in rudderless, aimless drifting ever since they achieved the treble and lost on penalties to Chivas. I'm beginning to think that it's time to remove the majority of the players and coaches that helmed the 2017 team and start rebuilding the squad with a new vision that's not looking back wistfully at past glories, but looking forward to new challenges.

[MightyDM]

Watched the entire game and my son (a GK) said Q was to blame on the second goal because he dove backwards for the ball instead of forwards and didn't get his fingertips on it. I can't put my finger on the general malaise of the team (and it *is* a malaise from top to bottom) but there is definitely something fishy going on here. Og's quote from Jozy sums it up: Why do the new guys need to be the ones to give them a lift? Why can't they lift themselves? This team has been mired in rudderless, aimless drifting ever since they achieved the treble and lost on penalties to Chivas. I'm beginning to think that it's time to remove the majority of the players and coaches that helmed the 2017 team and start rebuilding the squad with a new vision that's not looking back wistfully at past glories, but looking forward to new challenges.

Malaise is a good word. But fishes rot from the head - to me it starts with Manning. Or perhaps the decision to have him run the Argos too. If it is arrogance/overconfidence it starts there.

Jozy interview was very interesting "we dont have the attacking quality" . Poz replaced VV - not as good but plays every game, so call it even - still no replacement for Seba. I think that is what Jozy is referring to - so he is essentially calling to the new guys to step up.Or possibly calling out management.

[69Chevy396]

Malaise is a good word. But fishes rot from the head - to me it starts with Manning. Or perhaps the decision to have him run the Argos too. If it is arrogance/overconfidence it starts there.

Jozy interview was very interesting "we dont have the attacking quality" . Poz replaced VV - not as good but plays every game, so call it even - still no replacement for Seba. I think that is what Jozy is referring to - so he is essentially calling to the new guys to step up.Or possibly calling out management.
Jozy is simply reminding us, that 2015-2017 was all because of Giovinco, that even during those years, when he missed a game, the team struggled, and were often lucky to win. MLS is like that, add one outstanding player (Vela, Martinez, Giovinco), and you have the making of a great team. TFC front office doesn’t get it. Adding a winger here, a defender there, amounts to a hill of beans in a league characterized by such parity. You want to win, go out and sign another forward who can strike fear into the opposing team.

[Super]

Jozy is simply reminding us, that 2015-2017 was all because of Giovinco, that even during those years, when he missed a game, the team struggled, and were often lucky to win. MLS is like that, add one outstanding player (Vela, Martinez, Giovinco), and you have the making of a great team. TFC front office doesn’t get it. Adding a winger here, a defender there, amounts to a hill of beans in a league characterized by such parity. You want to win, go out and sign another forward who can strike fear into the opposing team.

That's right. It's not Vanney's magic that won us the respect of the league. Giovinco was so dominant that he could have won with any team in the league.

[Oldtimer]

That's right. It's not Vanney's magic that won us the respect of the league. Giovinco was so dominant that he could have won with any team in the league.

ANY team? I'd challenge that. There were players equally dominant whose teams didn't win the treble. Giovinco didn't win best player in 2017, and he wasn't the best player.

As much as Vanney hasn't seemed to be able to handle a less than optimum side for much of this year and last, he most certainly made some excellent tactical decisions with a top squad. Best example was in MLS Cup 2017 suddenly surprising Seattle with a different formation than Seattle had trained to play against, they weren't prepared and their 10-men-behind-the-ball strategy was defeated. That wasn't just Giovinco, because Giovinco had been there in 2016 too, that was Vanney thinking through how to do things differently in 2017. The difference between 2016 and 2017 was pure tactics, 100% the coach.

My issue with Vanney isn't with how he manages top players, it's that he often can't be pragmatic when he has a not so great squad due to absences, etc. Sometimes you want to just grind out a win in a less than beautiful way. He sometimes seems incapable of that. He expects secondary players to be Man City, which they are not capable of.