Match Day 22 - Houston @ TFC - Saturday July 20 7:30pm - You Know What Time it Is

[OgtheDim]

Keep Rollin'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnFIRc0k6E


****

Have at It People

[Oldtimer]

With the mild ankle injury this is a good time to rest Pozuelo. I expect Gallardo to be in this match, at least as a substitute.

[Mikmacdo]

This is who i would start.

Westburg
Auro moor mavinga morgan
-------fraser-----bradley-----
Richie-osorio-shaffleburg
--------------jozy------------

I like laryea as a winger. Id be worried about omar playing three games in a week. Morgan deserves a start and morrow should get some rest. Bring pozuelo off the bench if needed. Id almost consider resting jozy and starting mullens but i think thet need to start at leaat two dps to win.

[Red CB Toronto]

Houston has been terrible on the road this season with their 1-8 record and their woes continued last night in their 5-0 loss at Atlanta. The Reds need to just go at them and get up early.

[Bushmancan]

If there is a team I want to kick their ass...its Houston. Remember in the middle of the CCL last year they wouldn't postpone their game. We sent out a young squad and they ran up the score 5-1.

-----------------Irwin-----------------------
Dunn-Johnson, Hernandez, Taintor
--Hasler,Fraser, Aketxe, Chapman, Telfer--
------------Hamilton, Rickets -------------

Bench was ... Spencer, Mino, Patterson-Sewell, Daniels, Akinola

Hopefully with our recent form we tell them we remember....

COYRs

[urdiub]

Alberth Elis picked up a red card vs Atlanta so he'll be out for this one, very dangerous player so I'm glad we don't need to worry about him.

[Ultra & Proud]

If there is a team I want to kick their ass...its Houston. Remember in the middle of the CCL last year they wouldn't postpone their game. We sent out a young squad and they ran up the score 5-1.


I've been waiting for this day.

[notthesun]

Not trying to be dramatic, but assuming he is healthy, if Fraser doesn't start this game I'm going to lose a bit of faith in what we're doing as an organization.

We risk stunting his development if we can't find him good minutes from here on out. Fraser's been with the first team for a year and had time to acclimate and gel with the core group. He's 21. For as young as that is it's also the age where players typically start to break out and become starters, given the chance. Marky Delgado had 20 league appearances for us in his age 20 season and 28 in his age 21 season. A year later he was a key piece of our championship squad, and even if his development has stalled since Guadalajara he's still a good player with real value. He doesn't get there without those minutes.

More importantly than Fraser's age is that he's just good enough. I mean he looks better comparatively than Delgado did when he first started getting significant minutes with us.

I've always been a Bradley fan but it's visibly clear he's not the ground-covering rover that he used to be. As much as he wants to play every minute under the sun he could probably benefit from a game off here and there at this point in his career, certainly in this kind of case where he's coming back from international duty and we just had a midweek game.

I just think we'd be doing a big disservice to Fraser to park him on the bench the rest of the season now that Bradley is back. To say nothing of the fact that from a roster perspective we should be trying to give Fraser a bigger role because Bradley's future is unclear anyways.

[pfk]

If there is a team I want to kick their ass...its Houston. Remember in the middle of the CCL last year they wouldn't postpone their game. We sent out a young squad and they ran up the score 5-1.


Maybe TFC should think about Houston as the Thai team in the WWC. No holds barred and score 13 goals.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The DP's earned some load management.

Save em for Cinci, please.

Still, I want to see 5 nil.

[dal524]

what are we thinking for lineup? does bono get a sniff :willy_nilly:, do we finally get to see gallardo. luckily they played wed too...and down a man for the whole match so probably even a bit more gassed

[magmadragon]

If Fraser is at the minimum not on the bench I will be disappointed.

[leedsandTFC]

perfect match for Pozuelo to miss.

Deserves a little break, and osario can fill that role.

Would like to see this tomorrow:

Westburg
Laryea Ciman Gonzalez Mavinga Morrow
Bradley
osario Delgado
Jozy Mullins

[MightyDM]

I have a slight difference.

Bono
Laryea Ciman OG Mavinga Morgan
Bradley Fraser
Oso
Jozy Mullins

[portu]

Come out to win. Every match counts.

Westberg; Morrow, Mavinga, Gonzalez, Auro; Bradley, Fraser; Shaff, Pozuelo, Oso; Altidore

I also really want to see Gallardo if even for 10 mins

[Oldtimer]

Steve Buffery (Sun reporter) says Bono not planned to start until the Canadian Championship games in August, so Westberg it is.

https://twitter.com/Beezersun/status/1152277466381258758?s=20

[MightyDM]

Come out to win. Every match counts.

Westberg; Morrow, Mavinga, Gonzalez, Auro; Bradley, Fraser; Shaff, Pozuelo, Oso; Altidore

I also really want to see Gallardo if even for 10 mins

Poz is injured. So if you go with 4-2-3-1, which I like, Endoh gets the start. But I think Shaff needs/ will get a rest, so Morgan Chapman Gallardo are the options. Likely Morgan.

[Oldtimer]

Poz is injured. So if you go with 4-2-3-1, which I like, Endoh gets the start. But I think Shaff needs/ will get a rest, so Morgan Chapman Gallardo are the options. Likely Morgan.

Vanney indicated some rotation so this scenario could be very well what happens.

3-5-2 is another possibility with Vanney resting Endoh as well and playing another striker with Jozy. I guess we'll see.

[Auzzy]

Doesn't sound like Pozuelo or Gallardo (training injury) will be available; even Gonzalez is doubtful; and Moor available for limited minutes. Argh TFC still not quite 100%...

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/buffery-tfc-wont-take-struggling-dynamo-lightly

[notthesun]

Well... that's a bummer.

[DinamoTFC]

Doesn't sound like Pozuelo or Gallardo (training injury) will be available; even Gonzalez is doubtful; and Moor available for limited minutes. Argh TFC still not quite 100%...

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/buffery-tfc-wont-take-struggling-dynamo-lightly

It's remarkable how many injuries occur in training. Guess we won't be seeing a glimpse of Gallardo Saturday.

The coach said the club’s new 22-year-old winger Erickson Gallardo hurt himself this past week in training. “I don’t have a timeline, but I know they said it’s something minor so hopefully we just get through this weekend and we can get him back moving forward”

[Richard]

Oh man. Here comes the "two weeks away" meme.

[Auzzy]

It's remarkable how many injuries occur in training. Guess we won't be seeing a glimpse of Gallardo Saturday.

The coach said the club’s new 22-year-old winger Erickson Gallardo hurt himself this past week in training. “I don’t have a timeline, but I know they said it’s something minor so hopefully we just get through this weekend and we can get him back moving forward”

In 2018 TFC had a ton of injury problems. One of the things FO promised for this season was a new sports science partner, who would more carefully monitor players to avoid injury. If I had time, I would look up the quotes about that.

We've heard and seen nothing from this company since. Normally TFC like to do little tech stories or videos about such things, like about the pitch maintenance & improvement. Did they not follow through, and there is no new sports science company involved? Or are they working with the team, but still haven't been able to improve the situation enough? (Or is their advice occasionally being ignored?) Would be an interesting question from a journalist.

[MightyDM]

I wonder if Gallardo will get on the pitch this season

[OgtheDim]

Osorio & DeLeon back completely though. Delgado seems to be nailed onto this roster but not sure he would be starting if those 2 & Pozuelo are back. Gallardo had sore quads - this might as much be due to what he was doing before he got to the team.

[ag futbol]

Well... that's a bummer.
I’d say.

Another testament to shameful MLS officiating. The league needs to wake up and realize nobody pays to see talentless hacks kick star players for 90 minutes. Couldn’t have been more obvious Pozuelo was being targeted all game.

[Auzzy]

I’d say.

Another testament to shameful MLS officiating. The league needs to wake up and realize nobody pays to see talentless hacks kick star players for 90 minutes. Couldn’t have been more obvious Pozuelo was being targeted all game.

Also shocking in that context: TFC's words when talking about Pozuelo's injury. They make it sound almost like he did it to himself: "he rolled his ankle." Maybe they're saying more in their interviews and the journos aren't passing it on, but I doubt it. I know they have to be careful with criticizing the officials directly. But they could be much more forceful and angry when talking about the injury: "This was the result of him being badly fouled." It's a summer home game; season ticket holders are paying for this; TFC want to go on a run in the 2nd half of the season; but our star player is not available. Sure Pozuelo needs a break now and then, but that would be better done via planned substitutions; take him out in the 60th minute against a weak team for example. Rather than him having to sit because he got hacked.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Doesn't sound like Pozuelo or Gallardo (training injury) will be available; even Gonzalez is doubtful; and Moor available for limited minutes. Argh TFC still not quite 100%...

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/buffery-tfc-wont-take-struggling-dynamo-lightly

Oh well...
Yesterday morning I thought I will be pissed if we do not beat this hateworthy Houston team (remember last year!) with at least 2 goals, and I was hoping in a 3-4 goal win.
But with these news I have a bad feeling about this one, and I'll be very happy if somehow we can edge out a 1-0 or 2-1 win.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ya nm 5 nil. Their shellacking last match was with 10 men most of the match.

Just get us 3 pts today.

[ag futbol]

Chance the weather ruins this one? High probability of precipitation in and around kickoff.

[ag futbol]

Also shocking in that context: TFC's words when talking about Pozuelo's injury. They make it sound almost like he did it to himself: "he rolled his ankle." Maybe they're saying more in their interviews and the journos aren't passing it on, but I doubt it. I know they have to be careful with criticizing the officials directly. But they could be much more forceful and angry when talking about the injury: "This was the result of him being badly fouled." It's a summer home game; season ticket holders are paying for this; TFC want to go on a run in the 2nd half of the season; but our star player is not available. Sure Pozuelo needs a break now and then, but that would be better done via planned substitutions; take him out in the 60th minute against a weak team for example. Rather than him having to sit because he got hacked.
I know there was plenty of game left but I would have liked to see us give some of that physical play back to RBNY

We put up with too much of this crap. Let them know we can send BWP back to the injured list if they like.

[paul-collins]

A reminder about the parking availability - Exhibition Place is probably still in tear down mode for the Indy but there's also the Jehovah's Witness conference at Enercare going on and also the Toronto Triathlon is staged out of the Ontario Place parking lots. So those lots will be closed, probably.

[OgtheDim]

And the threat of rain is now pushed off until around 11.

[Inklink]

FFS no gallardo again?

[Mikmacdo]

Wow not trying to win?

Moor must be done, zavs is starting with Ciman. Is mavinga hurt again?

Mullens gets his first start.

[OgtheDim]

Fraser starts. As does Mullins. This will be interesting.

[stevep]

Wow not trying to win?

Moor must be done, zavs is starting with Ciman. Is mavinga hurt again?

Mullens gets his first start.

Assholes put this tfc2 lineup and tell you this an hour before the game.
Too late to sell your tickets

[Auzzy]

Wow!

[portu]

Joke line-up

Everytime I look at this line-up I see another player missing and I get more pissed. First Altidore, then Poz, then Gonzalez, then Bradley. THEN ZAVALETA STARTING.

[OgtheDim]

The sub warm up is..... Not very active. Lots of talking. Jozy is limbering up but the rest are talking

[OgtheDim]

As soon as I typed that they started up

[notthesun]

Fraser starting, I am happy.

[tfcfans]

Assholes put this tfc2 lineup and tell you this an hour before the game.
Too late to sell your tickets

Saw this coming a mile away and sold mine off, especially in the 38C heat; will be back next Saturday when hopefully all DPs return. I’m hoping this is the lineup we send to LA in September (our last horrendous road trip), especially if there’s a midweek Can Championship game that week (assuming it’s not out West in Calg/Vanc).....

[stevep]

Saw this coming a mile away and sold mine off, especially in the 38C heat; will be back next Saturday when hopefully all DPs return. I’m hoping this is the lineup we send to LA in September (our last horrendous road trip), especially if there’s a midweek Can Championship game that week (assuming it’s not out West in Calg/Vanc).....
Very smart!

[tfcfans]

^I still think Altidore should be starting, Poz needs the rest as does Bradley....

[Brooker]

Gonna be a long 90 minutes.

[Brooker]

They've lost 8 out of 9 on the road. Is that the reasoning for this CPL lineup?

[tfcfans]

Poz injury worse than they thought (swollen); wouldn’t be surprised if they rest him against Cincy too next week, and save him for NY and Orl afterwards which are tougher opponents.....

[tfcfans]

They've lost 8 out of 9 on the road. Is that the reasoning for this CPL lineup?

Is tonight the @Ottawa/Halifax lineup of August 7th?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Horrible lineup.
It will be HUGE if we win somehow.

[ag futbol]

I appreciate that Vanney wants some guys rested but this is a non-serious lineup.

[tfcfans]

Solid start by the “B” team....:facepalm:

[stegosaurus]

Blessed be Tubby Messi.

[Inklink]

Really looks like blatantly not giving a piss about the match. Cimian-shit nephew pairing. this will end well.

[SoccMan2]

What a fucken joke of a lineup ya sure rest basically your whole team, why not just drop points lol!!

[James17930]

I appreciate that Vanney wants some guys rested but this is a non-serious lineup.

Yeah - too many changes, and it's already hurt us.

[69Chevy396]

Horrible lineup.
It will be HUGE if we win somehow.
Glad I am not a season ticket holder this year. This lineup is disgraceful, a real kick in the balls to paying customers.

[portu]

Here we go

[ag futbol]

Yeah - too many changes, and it's already hurt us.
In some ways this is shades of early 2018 “resting guys for later” . And here I thought we were just holding onto a playoff spot in the east. Oh well.

[SoccMan2]

But the beer prices and all the other prices stay the same but yet we are watching a B team play!

[tfcfans]

Hope I’m wrong - but it’s not exactly shocking that no Altidore and no Pozuelo likely means little to no scoring.....and no Moor, Mavinga, Auro and Omar doesn’t exactly bode well on the other end of the field....other than that we should be just fine this evening....:rolleyes:

[jazzy]

This is why vanney , isn't great for me, in his mind these guys are guys enough, no offence then start your B D .. yes start the. A squad vs the better teams? We did steal as many points as we can.. and we WERE, getting better. Killed the flow

[ag futbol]

This team is textbook smart and street dumb.

Auro wins a free kick in the attacking third. That ball needs to go into the box 10x out of 10. It’s arrogant to think we’re going to pass it around them consistently with this lineup.

Give yourself at least a chance of scoring when it comes up FFS.

[James17930]

Okay, yes, Vanney shouldn't have made this many changes, but let's try to look at it positively.

Fraser gets the chance to prove he can be Bradley's replacement. Oso gets the chance to truly lead the team. Hopefully Ciman will get injured.

Look on the bright side :)

[tfcfans]

Embarrassing....Good to know we are still throwing away home games while trying to hold onto the last playoff spot...(Omar is too tired from playing too many minutes where this past two months?)....

[portu]

Joke joke joke

[General Woolfe]

If we lose this game tonight it’s on Vanney. What the hell is he thinking with so many changes, essentially playing a second string side. It’s disrespectful for one, and two, we’re in a fight for a play off spot. It’s not like we’re leading the conference, we can't afford to drop all DPs at once. There’s only 5 home games left after this so three points are a must. Playing a line up this weak is a shocking decision, and sadly typical of Vanney’s over cautious approach. I mean playing a single untried striker in Mullins when a win is vital sums this line up tonight to a tee. We need goals, we need to keep our winning streak going. A pro footballer (especially a DP) should be able to handle a 34 game season, if they can’t they shouldn’t be a pro let alone a DP. Rest players in the Canadian cup if you must, not when you’re struggling to make the playoffs

2-0 now! This is fucking ridiculous Vanney for God’s sake get Altidore, Pozuelo and Bradley on while this game is still salvagable

[portu]

D is playing shit. But Westberg not making the best case for himself.

[69Chevy396]

Okay, yes, Vanney shouldn't have made this many changes, but let's try to look at it positively.

Fraser gets the chance to prove he can be Bradley's replacement. Oso gets the chance to truly lead the team. Hopefully Ciman will get injured.

Look on the bright side :)
Osorio has developed into a decent MLS player. Unless he puts in a few stellar performances during these stupid B side games, he is certainly not worth the $800k CDN he is earning.

[Inklink]

How the hell are these fkers allowed onto the field.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Make 3 changes right now Vanney, you idiot.
Maybe we can steal 1 point tonight.

[RedsYNWA]

They should refund the tickets for this SHIT SHOW putting up a bunch of Bums

[barticusz]

Vanney drives me absolutely nuts with these lineups. We get two wins in a row and have a chance to push for three and then four and we this is the group that is sent out. What a disaster.

[RedsYNWA]

If we lose this game tonight it’s on Vanney. What the hell is he thinking with so many changes, essentially playing a second string side. It’s disrespectful for one, and two, we’re in a fight for a play off spot. It’s not like we’re leading the conference, we can't afford to drop all DPs at once. There’s only 5 home games left after this so three points are a must. Playing a line up this weak is a shocking decision, and sadly typical of Vanney’s over cautious approach. I mean playing a single untried striker in Mullins when a win is vital sums this line up tonight to a tee. We need goals, we need to keep our winning streak going. A pro footballer (especially a DP) should be able to handle a 34 game season, if they can’t they shouldn’t be a pro let alone a DP. Rest players in the Canadian cup if you must, not when you’re struggling to make the playoffs

THIS

[SoccMan2]

For all you Fraser lovers has he ever been on the field for a TFC win?

[ag futbol]

This is exactly what the Dynamo want. TFC to dink around with possession and for them to live on the counter.

Vanney is an idiot for starting this CB pairing. First, CB’s don’t wear as easily as other players on the field cause there is less running involved in the position. Second, we’ve seen how this pairing performs earlier in the year, why revisit it if you have any intention of winning?

[James17930]

Let's remember that not all of these changes were voluntary - some guys have knocks. And DeLeon is not even 100% (he'll be the first sub).

[stegosaurus]

Teams should pay us for kickstarting their seasons. Losing streak away? Play TFC and turn it around. Quakes suddenly stopped sucking? Well, they just played TFC and are better than they have been in ages.

[stevep]

But the beer prices and all the other prices stay the same but yet we are watching a B team play!

To them we are the proles. They don't care.
They are laughing at us

[Brooker]

Fraser lazy as fuck. MOVE YOUR ASS. Does anybody on the pitch care?

[GerMc]

For all you Fraser lovers has he ever been on the field for a TFC win?
Got to agree with this. It has been giveaway after giveaway from Fraser. For those of you who said he could replace Bradley now, I want some of what you are smoking.

And I think this is a test of Vanney’s coaching ability. Does he let this get away from us before making some subs?

[tfcfans]

We will go as far as Jozy and Poz take us offensively and Moor/Mavinga/Omar and the miracle saves of Westberg help us on the defensive side...

[C.Ronaldo]

Fraser shockingly with more than a few bad passes.
Zav is not a professional soccer player
Ciman needs a good partner
Mullins so far showing little promise

[tfcfans]

Miracle Save #1.....

[James17930]

I think Bradley should come in for DeLeon now. It's a forced sub, no use waiting for the half.

[ag futbol]

There’s not enough strong pieces in this lineup.

You can’t drop Gonzalez AND Bradley AND Altidore AND Pozuelo AND Mavinga and expect to be competitive. That’s just crazy.

Most of the guys on the field, with the exception of Mullens and Zavaleta would be okay with stronger players around them. But we literally fielded a 80% second choice lineup.

[Brooker]

Got to agree with this. It has been giveaway after giveaway from Fraser. For those of you who said he could replace Bradley now, I want some of what you are smoking.

And I think this is a test of Vanney’s coaching ability. Does he let this get away from us before making some subs?


For his sake I hope he's not fit.... because he's already gassed.

He should put some of his passes on goal because they've been out of control rockets.

[barticusz]

I don't have my audio on, was there an update on Gallardo?

[stegosaurus]

I don't have my audio on, was there an update on Gallardo?

He’s not fit.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

We will go as far as Jozy and Poz take us offensively and Moor/Mavinga/Omar and the miracle saves of Westberg help us on the defensive side...

Without Poz and Jozy we have zero quality in constructing attacks and finishing.

[Brooker]

He’s not fit.

Then why isn't he on the pitch with the rest who aren't fit?

[barticusz]

I hope he's not going to be yet another injury prone player. Please don't be another Aketxe-type signing.

[OgtheDim]

Ciman is bad tonight and Frasers inability to track runners isn't helping

[stevep]

I really want a beer.
But it's so hard for me to give them my money now

[ag futbol]

“They haven’t created a whole lot”

They’re up 2-0 Greg, pull your head out of your ass.

[tfcfans]

“We will make changes”.....thanks Greg....:facepalm:

[GerMc]

We better see significant subs at the half or I will go #VanneyOut. This has been painful to watch. Rotation is not an excuse for throwing a game away. We need the points.

[stegosaurus]

I’m not sure I like this alternate timeline in which Nick Deleon is somehow the best TFC player on the pitch...

[OgtheDim]

“They haven’t created a whole lot”

They’re up 2-0 Greg, pull your head out of your ass.

He's right. They've had 3 chances but these 2 CBs & Fraser can't cover worth beans in LibbyLand

[tfcfans]

I really want a beer.
But it's so hard for me to give them my money now

The beer is much cheaper from my fridge, no lineup either:drinking:....sorry, I shouldn’t be picking on those brave enough to go tonight; clearly I wasn’t up to the challenge - my apologies....I’ll drink one for both of us!!

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Sorry, but at least 75% of the public should leave at halftime, to give a message to the management.
And don't tell me that real supporters of TFC should not leave...

[GerMc]

We better see significant subs at the half or I will go #VanneyOut. This has been painful to watch. Rotation is not an excuse for throwing a game away. We need the points.

Altidore and Shuffleburg are on the field at the half warming up pretty vigourously. Imagine we will see Altidore for Chapman and Shuffleburg for DeLeon. Could also take out Mullins, but I don’t think he has been that bad. just no service.

[ag futbol]

He's right. They've had 3 chances but these 2 CBs & Fraser can't cover worth beans in LibbyLand
If you were to rank the top scoring chances of the half, the top 5 would easily all be theirs. If not for Westburg, this is a 3-0 game. We haven’t challenged their keeper once.

Saying “they haven’t created much” is a joke when you’ve created less and can’t defend worth a darn.

[tfcfans]

Sorry, but at least 75% of the public should live at halftime, to give a message to the management.
And don't tell me that real supporters of TFC should not leave...

Some STH won’t go at all on these kind of nights:rolleyes: - I know that I’m dropping down from 4 seats to 2 seats after this year; will always keep my original pair, but there is less and less demand for using 4 these days....

[tfcfans]

Jozy and Shaff coming in....

[SoccMan2]

For everyone that wanted the season to end earlier because everyone didn’t like the playoffs going into December, well you got your wish more midweek games Wednesday and Saturday games. Two games a week in a league that does not have the player depth to rest players and play other players. So now we are watching a lot of teams starting B teams for half their games , makes for great entertainment for the paying public. Unless this leagues starts picking up more quality players they need to get back to the longer season so we don’t need to watch these B teams every second game !

[DinamoTFC]

I'm really getting tired of Vanneys line ups. I cant defend him any more

[PizzaEatingYeti]

If you were to rank the top scoring chances of the half, the top 5 would easily all be theirs. If not for Westburg, this is a 3-0 game. We haven’t challenged their keeper once.

Saying “they haven’t created much” is a joke when you’ve created less and can’t defend worth a darn.

These were exactly my remarks after I heard Vanney's interview.
Of course he should have said "we have not enough quality, because of the lineup I've thrown out, so this score is totally normal".

[Fort York Redcoat]

For everyone that wanted the season to end earlier because everyone didn’t like the playoffs going into December, well you got your wish more midweek games Wednesday and Saturday games. Two games a week in a league that does not have the player depth to rest players and play other players. So now we are watching a lot of teams starting B teams for half their games , makes for great entertainment for the paying public. Unless this leagues starts picking up more quality players they need to get back to the longer season so we don’t need to watch these B teams every second game !

Lol right because nobody complains about the winter games

[General Woolfe]

Two changes from Vanney but wasn’t a big enough man to take responsibility in the half time interview, blaming the slowness of the players instead of his line up choices. Also why wait untill halftime to make changes when it was clear to a blind man we needed a stronger line up after half an hour. Those 15 mins could be crucial. Even now one sub is questionable. This game needs Bradley given how weak our defence is. We need a big 45 minutes from Jozy here as this is a must win game

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sorry, but at least 75% of the public should leave at halftime, to give a message to the management.
And don't tell me that real supporters of TFC should not leave...

I presume you're not there. You've done your part.

[MightyDM]

It is fascinating to see people on here who never comment when we win. Welcome lads! It’s fun at the game btw. You should join us some time.

[Inklink]

Fkin love schaff

[Fort York Redcoat]

It is fascinating to see people on here who never comment when we win. Welcome lads! It’s fun at the game btw. You should join us some time.

Looking forward to Cinci for the first time next weekend.

[ag futbol]

Put Zavaleta on waivers

[Mikmacdo]

#Firevanney

[GerMc]

Oh my god. This is Vanney’s fault. Where was the defensive sub at the half?

[Inklink]

Eat shit cimian and vanneys God damn nephew

[portu]

Put Zavaleta on waivers

Put Vanney on waivers.

[Bushmancan]

That is by far the worst goal I have ever seen. 1 v 3. They should be ashamed!!!!! Name a more shambolic one.

[MightyDM]

Fraser needs quality around him. Vanney should not have started him Zavs and Ciman with him unless we had no choice.

[stevep]

I'm really getting tired of Vanneys line ups. I cant defend him any more
I now officially dislike him.
He's an asshole, putting out this lineup for your paying customers.
After this game I will never respect him again.

[MightyDM]

Shaff is the real deal. Has totally turned this game around. Let’s hope for a comeback for the ages.

[stevep]

Looking forward to Cinci for the first time next weekend.
Selling my tickets to that game

[SoccMan2]

Lol right because nobody complains about the winter games
So complain and watch garbage every other game.

[Brooker]

One... ONE PLAYER... beat Vanney's entire backline.

Good grief.

[notthesun]

Man oh man Ciman is a disaster without a better partner to reign him in and Zavaleta is just a complete disaster period. Can't believe how bad Zavaleta is now after he was a solid if unspectacular player in 2017.

[SPALE]

Ciman and zavs should never get to step on the pitch I’m a tfc kit again That back 4 is worse then what I see in timbits. Embarrassing from TFC tonight thus far. And till 30 min to go. What a joke

[jloome]

Even if you subscribe to the theory that Eric Zavaleta is on the field for his skill level, and not because of uncle blinders, there's no way he and Ciman are collectively fast enough to be paired together. Both need to be position players, who manage their area of the pitch. Can't have two defenders like that in a high press or you get ripped apart constantly by any break or open space.

Seems fairly evident.

[portu]

This year reminds me so much of 2014 TFC it hurts

[Brooker]

Fraser needs quality around him.

He needs a lot more than that. Lazy as fuck. Scared as fuck.

[RedsYNWA]

This one is on Vanney 100%...if we miss the playoffs he should be gone

[DinamoTFC]

I now officially dislike him.
He's an asshole, putting out this lineup for your paying customers.
After this game I will never respect him again.

Vanney out im officially done with him. Cocky bastard

[Inklink]

Lmao dumb and dumber now shooting at each other.

[portu]

Zavaleta getting absolutely winded and put on the ground by Ciman's poor clearance while both Ciman and Bradley walk on by casually has to be a metaphor for something.

[notthesun]

He needs a lot more than that. Lazy as fuck. Scared as fuck.

Imagine watching this game and thinking Fraser is the problem lmao

[General Woolfe]

Zavaleta should never pull on a TFC shirt again. That was schoolboy stuff. This game, which was vital, is gone, and it’s all down to the coach. You rest one or two players not close to the entire side. Vanney must take responsibilty for tonight but Ali Curtis has a share of the blame for our performance this season too. Ciman, Boyd, Mullins and DeLeon are not Championship winning material. His trades have turned us from a top MLS side to also fans. Both Vanney & Curtis should walk if we don’t make the playoffs.

[SPALE]

This one is on Vanney 100%...if we miss the playoffs he should be gone

100%. This is a joke tonight.

[stegosaurus]

Even if you subscribe to the theory that Eric Zavaleta is on the field for his skill level, and not because of uncle blinders, there's no way he and Ciman are collectively fast enough to be paired together. Both need to be position players, who manage their area of the pitch. Can't have two defenders like that in a high press or you get ripped apart constantly by any break or open space.

Seems fairly evident.

Yeah, Zavaleta is a generic backup to a generic MLS defender. He’s out of his depth nowadays, especially when paired with Ciman, especially with Auro on his side, especially against a team like Houston.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That is by far the worst goal I have ever seen. 1 v 3. They should be ashamed!!!!! Name a more shambolic one.

Lol

we don't got room for that early TFC list

[jloome]

He needs a lot more than that. Lazy as fuck. Scared as fuck.

Our cautiousness is a constant issue. I want one game where he tells them to go out and break the record for shot attempts. In fact, I want him to offer bonuses in the form of steak and bling to any player who can break the shots-on-gpal record in a game from his position.

We're the most cautious fucking team for our skill level I've ever seen. There's a reason we get better every time Shaffelburg comes on and it's because he's too young to have had the "play direct" confidence knocked out of him. He finds the best spot to cross the ball, he crosses the ball. He finds the best spot to cross, he crosses. He has no great options, he pulls it back to the late trailer.

If we played some basic fucking football occasionally we might win more games.

[portu]

You know were fucking devoid of ideas when Bradley is shooting from a corner.

[tfcfans]

Lol

we don't got room for that early TFC list

......might I interest you in some “worst team in the world” highlights?:facepalm:

[MightyDM]

He needs a lot more than that. Lazy as fuck. Scared as fuck.
That’s totally unfair. He has had a lot of good games for us. And is an important part of the future. In the transfer thread, people posting think he is ready to replace Bradley based on previous performances.

It’s also nasty. He’s 21 FFS

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ciman and zavs should never get to step on the pitch I’m a tfc kit again That back 4 is worse then what I see in timbits. Embarrassing from TFC tonight thus far. And till 30 min to go. What a joke

NA soccer talk bingo

[ag futbol]

Our cautiousness is a constant issue. I want one game where he tells them to go out and break the record for shot attempts. In fact, I want him to offer bonuses in the form of steak and bling to any player who can break the shots-on-gpal record in a game from his position.

We're the most cautious fucking team for our skill level I've ever seen. There's a reason we get better every time Shaffelburg comes on and it's because he's too young to have had the "play direct" confidence knocked out of him. He finds the best spot to cross the ball, he crosses the ball. He finds the best spot to cross, he crosses. He has no great options, he pulls it back to the late trailer.

If we played some basic fucking football occasionally we might win more games.

I was going to say. Look at the difference in players like Delgado and Chapman after years under Vanney.

Less and less independence or aggression all the time. Everything is cycle the ball and look for an opening. Somebody has to play a final ball. It can’t always be a Giovinco or a Pozuelo creating magic

[Fort York Redcoat]

Our cautiousness is a constant issue. I want one game where he tells them to go out and break the record for shot attempts. In fact, I want him to offer bonuses in the form of steak and bling to any player who can break the shots-on-gpal record in a game from his position.

We're the most cautious fucking team for our skill level I've ever seen. There's a reason we get better every time Shaffelburg comes on and it's because he's too young to have had the "play direct" confidence knocked out of him. He finds the best spot to cross the ball, he crosses the ball. He finds the best spot to cross, he crosses. He has no great options, he pulls it back to the late trailer.

If we played some basic fucking football occasionally we might win more games.

DC match earlier this season?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I now officially dislike him.
He's an asshole, putting out this lineup for your paying customers.
After this game I will never respect him again.

I'd rather be a supporter than a customer but hey, you bought em. Feel free to write a letter.

[Fort York Redcoat]

......might I interest you in some “worst team in the world” highlights?:facepalm:

bing bing hey

[PizzaEatingYeti]

If we played some basic fucking football occasionally we might win more games.

But, but... you know we can't play that!
TFC needs to play Vanney-ball.

[Bushmancan]

Caldwell has to go... that was handball all the way!!! The ref and VAR missed it ... call it out, don’t agree. Other than shutting off the volume, is there any way we can get rid of him.

[MightyDM]

Hell of a pass by Fraser there. Oso and Shaff excellent as well

[stevep]

I'd rather be a supporter than a customer but hey, you bought em. Feel free to write a letter.
Now I officially like you as much as I like vanney

[portu]

God I love Jozy.

[Brooker]

That’s totally unfair. He has had a lot of good games for us. And is an important part of the future. In the transfer thread, people posting think he is ready to replace Bradley based on previous performances.

It’s also nasty. He’s 21 FFS

He was bent over wheezing after 20 minutes. He shouldn't be on the pitch. Collin Samuel would be embarrassed.

[Inklink]

Yes jozy

[tfcfans]

Gee, look, a goal by our one true goal scorer - crazy stuff Vanney eh?!

[stegosaurus]

Finally.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Now I officially like you as much as I like vanney

lol I'll ask Vanney if he cares

You may want to take a breath.

TFC just scored

[ag futbol]

Man Shaffelburg’s activity level is crazy. He is just non stop

[James17930]

Definitely it'll be hubris that cost us this game. Overall I like Vanney but this is totally on him.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, the DeLeon for Bradley sub should have come much earlier.

[Inklink]

Lmao

He has no idea where he is on either side.

[portu]

If I were betting man I would put money on Vanney describing this loss as unlucky at least once post game.

[TheSloanRanger]

Pretty pathetic. Manager, players, whoever you want to blame. These were points we needed, yet we treat it like a Wednesday night Ottawa Fury match.
pathetic.
That lineup sent a message that this game doesn’t totally matter, and that is a shame based on where we sit.

Those two wins feel a lot less meaningful

[ag futbol]

I’d say he’s faking it but given how fat he looks i wouldn’t be suprised if his back hurt.

[notthesun]

He was bent over wheezing after 20 minutes. He shouldn't be on the pitch. Collin Samuel would be embarrassed.

These posts are embarrassing. He created our goal. Give your head a shake.

[portu]

These posts are embarrassing. He created our goal. Give your head a shake.

Yup.

[ag futbol]

Was that an actual shot from outside the box?

[69Chevy396]

[QUOTE=TheSloanRanger;1904013]Pretty pathetic. Manager, players, whoever you want to blame. These were points we needed, yet we treat it like a Wednesday night Ottawa Fury match.
pathetic.
That lineup sent a message that this game doesn’t totally matter, and that is a shame based on where we sit.

Those two wins feel a lot less meaningful[/QUOTE

I thought Osorio looked good tonight.........

[GerMc]

#VanneyOut.

I am converted.

[RealG-TFC]

Unbelievable how we just threw a game away.

[gracos]

Why cant Toronto be great, it seems like mediocrity was the goal this year, which may explain why we had a lot of players left in the offseason

[boozilla]

If Vanney was less arrogant, I'd suspect match fixing.

[tfcfans]

If anyone can give me a logical reason why Omar wasn’t playing today, I would love to hear it....honestly, that decision is the most mind-blowing one to me tonight - to sit him and play a CB combo of Zavs and Ciman when the whole reason Omar was signed was to avoid such a combo is beyond explanation to me....

[gracos]

each game that passes without figuring out our team; makes it harder to have full faith we are heading in the right direction, this is extremely disappointing and i want to believe in our management but they dont even put out the best lineup available makes it hard for me to provide my full trust

[jloome]

If anyone can give me a logical reason why Omar wasn’t playing today, I would love to hear it....honestly, that decision is the most mind-blowing one to me tonight - to sit him and play a CB combo of Zavs and Ciman when the whole reason Omar was signed was to avoid such a combo is beyond explanation to me....

Maybe he tweaked something. Otherwise, I am baffled. It seems insane to start the two center halfs who've had the most trouble not just with consistent performance but particularly playing together.

Insane. Must've been an injury.

[paul-collins]

That game felt like it was conceded with the lineup. It became lively in the second half but my god you can’t expect Ciman to be Moor and frankly Zavaleta is done.

[ag futbol]

Obviously the lineup was a miscalculation from Vanney. If this group, of mostly rested players, can't compete with Houston who is on their 3rd game in a week + travel, it simply was never going to be competitive. The continued use of Zavaleta is frustrating. It's not justified in any way, shape, or form.

The other turd sandwich here is we had won two games, looked to have good momentum, and a threw it all away by overlooking an opponent. We were starting to look like a formidable group again. Oh well.

[General Woolfe]

Absolutely shocking stuff from TFC tonight and by the manager in particular. We were starting to find a decent bit of form for the first time since the start of the season with two wins against decent opponents and Vanney decides to change 3/4 of the side. It’s really unforgivable. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It’s not like we had the luxury of being in a comfortable position in the conference standings that we could afford to do it. We are in a2 dog fight for a playoff spot and the same side should have kept their places (injury aside) until a dip in form dictates otherwise. We squandered, and I mean squandered, a chance to leapfrog the Impact tonight and continue to climb into a decent play off spot, but the manager blew it big time. we no longer have the strength in depth we had two years ago. In fact thanks to Curtis we struggle to put out a strong starting eleven. What made Vanney think he could get away with so many changes tonight is beyond me.

I think we seriously need to think about the front office in the off season, in fact it’s essential if we don’t make the playoffs. The drop in quality in that team in the past two seasons is frightening. Curtis should definitely be shown the door and serious debate is needed about Vanney’s ability to take us forward. It is really starting to look like he’s taken us as far as he can and lacks the ability to regain and maintain the levels of 2017

[DinamoTFC]

I was going to say. Look at the difference in players like Delgado and Chapman after years under Vanney.

Less and less independence or aggression all the time. Everything is cycle the ball and look for an opening. Somebody has to play a final ball. It can’t always be a Giovinco or a Pozuelo creating magic

It's strange but not surprising how developing players are regressing under him.

[notthesun]

No separating Vanney from this one. Some squad rotation in a double game week is fine but you can't change the lineup wholesale and expect to see a team that's really clicking out there. Like, didn't Mavinga play 10 minutes last game? How was he not in here? Endoh starting again why exactly?

If Vanney ever goes back to Ciman - Zavaleta again he's a complete fool, it's a disaster every time and tonight was the worst yet. We're throwing the game putting them out there together. Lunacy.

[ensco]

Theses game threads when we lose feel vicious ... wow people have super high expectations.

[SKB]

Here is a crazy thought. Vanney is pissed off with the general manager, did not want Mullins, Cimon and some of the other terrible players. So he put out a protest lineup to show the club how the general manager destroyed the depth of the team. He is trying to get rid of the general manager. I know crazy...

[DinamoTFC]

Here is a crazy thought. Vanney is pissed off with the general manager, did not want Mullins, Cimon and some of the other terrible players. So he put out a protest lineup to show the club how the general manager destroyed the depth of the team. He is trying to get rid of the general manager. I know crazy...

I could believe this if Vanney didn't put out 'protest' lineups more often than not.

[MightyDM]

Theses game threads when we lose feel vicious ... wow people have super high expectations.

Look back at some of the comments about Fraser. They are despicable.

[DinamoTFC]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1152759215687118848?s=19

[ensco]

Both teams are playing 3 games in 7 nights, it's a crap shoot.

We may have an entitlement problem as a fan base, I fear.

[MightyDM]

Theses game threads when we lose feel vicious ... wow people have super high expectations.

Some of the criticism is legit though. Ciman and Zavs is inexplicable unless mavinga and Omar are hurt. And if Omar is hurt, why was he on the bench. And Fraser needs more quality around him to succeed. A team needs strength up the middle; the starting lineup was weakness up the middle.

[kodiakTFC]

“The problem was we didn’t come out with any energy.” - head coach Greg Vanney https://t.co/gTRD2spB2u
:facepalm:

The answer was quality. How on earth he figured this was the squad to roll out with ill never know. Lets start a lineup upfront with all starters out and has also never played together before.

[stevep]

Theses game threads when we lose feel vicious ... wow people have super high expectations.


I hope everybody can see that TFC deliberately threw this game tonight.
If you couldn't tell after the DC away game then this game is your definitive proof.

If the lineup choices tonight don't convince everybody about what I have been saying that both TFC and the league deliberately conspire to throw games onto another teams favour I don't know what it is going to take to convince you.
The DC game it was the referees that threw the game on purpose tonight it was the lineup choices by TFC.

how can you say that the coach put out a lineup to win the game?
you can't , he put out a lineup to not win the game

ask yourselves did the coach put out a lineup to win the game?
if the answer is no that means he threw the game. Period!!


I was going to say the same. Why switch up the whole team? Doesn’t make sense to me.

it makes perfect sense if you do not want to win the game

[Canary10]

No separating Vanney from this one. Some squad rotation in a double game week is fine but you can't change the lineup wholesale and expect to see a team that's really clicking out there. Like, didn't Mavinga play 10 minutes last game? How was he not in here? Endoh starting again why exactly?

If Vanney ever goes back to Ciman - Zavaleta again he's a complete fool, it's a disaster every time and tonight was the worst yet. We're throwing the game putting them out there together. Lunacy.

I was going to say the same. Why switch up the whole team? Doesn’t make sense to me.

[stevep]

The answer was quality. How on earth he figured this was the squad to roll out with ill never know. Lets start a lineup upfront with all starters out and has also never played together before.

hes not that stupid he knows exactly what he is doing

[Oldtimer]

I won't defend Vanney putting out this line up.

[ag futbol]

It's strange but not surprising how developing players are regressing under him.
I feel his view of the game is a throw-back to Old MLS but with a modern twist.

Back in the day it was 20 blue collar, under-skilled guys + a few DP’s who scored the goals and made everything tick. Now there’s more contributors but the divide is the same: the domestic guys not on big contracts are here to support the stars, not try and score the goals and win the game. When the stars aren’t on the field or are marked out of the game everyone looks lost, not surprisingly.

[stevep]

If Vanney was less arrogant, I'd suspect match fixing.


YES, YES, YES

finally people are starting to come around, it is match fixing

it is really hard to accept the reality that we are not in Kansas anymore

[GerMc]

Both teams are playing 3 games in 7 nights, it's a crap shoot.

We may have an entitlement problem as a fan base, I fear.

Don’t think it is entitlement to expect to beat a team at home who has such an abysmal record on the road and whose top goal scorer is suspended. Don’t think it is entitlement to expect a coach to be reasonable with his rotation, when we are just starting to build some momentum (even if a few folks had knocks). Don’t think it is entitlement to expect a coach to respond tactically when his team is getting soundly beaten on the field, and his initial strategy is not working, and not wait until it is too late. I don’t think it is entitlement to expect more than this from your coach and team. I am not expecting 2017 performance, but we can’t be throwing away points to teams that aren’t as good as us, when there are so many teams in the league who, to be frank, are better than us.

After two great games (and I was in Montreal), it was a bit depressing to be at BMO Field tonight and watch that.

[stevep]

I won't defend Vanney putting out this line up.

I always defended him in then past but he is done now. He has no credibility with me any more.
I don't think he can come back in any sense of credibility after this game
I was looking forward to this game for 3 days, I spent $200 tonight for this.
#vanneyout.

[gracos]

Name me a few realistic coaches that are attainable for TFC to acquire to correct the team into a proper direction

[James17930]

Both teams are playing 3 games in 7 nights, it's a crap shoot.

We may have an entitlement problem as a fan base, I fear.

Usually I agree with you Ensco, but not here. A game like this should not be a crap shoot. It's a home game against a tired team - it should be a win.

This was completely down to the line-up. Vanney took Houston too lightly and they burned us. Zav and Ciman are both terrible, even moreso together.

If planned for properly this should have been a win, full stop.

[stegosaurus]

Name me a few realistic coaches that are attainable for TFC to acquire to correct the team into a proper direction

Rafa in a few months?

[ensco]

I am not sure what to think. I get that this was a bad look. It was too much squad rotation. But was it malpractice, or just a bet gone wrong?

[backbeat]

I am not sure what to think. I get that this was a bad look. It was too much squad rotation. But was it malpractice, or just a bet gone wrong?

i think it's plain and simple really poor managing - yes rotate some players but not the complete spine of the team - at the very least leave a strong backline and especially the CBs - it was a stunningly poor decision imho

[Brooker]

These posts are embarrassing. He created our goal. Give your head a shake.

I'm a bit too harsh.. but tell me his rocket crosses that were going out of bounds, hot potato passing (maybe Vanney's fault?), giveaways or lazy backtracking (watch the second goal) didn't warrant annoyed reaction. And he was bent over wheezing after 20 minutes. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he isn't fit. I had my eyes glued to him the until the 3rd goal after all the hype. I know it's one game but...

I also posted that before his goal creating pass as I turned off the game after 3-0 as did probably half their viewers.

Maybe my posts are embarrassing in the heat of the moment... but the people who say he's ready to replace Bradley need to give their head a bigger shake. He's not ready, yet.

[stegosaurus]

Vanney’s decision to pass off a weak lineup against a team that looked hopelessly incapable of winning away was a gamble that shouldn’t have been made — every game like this is a trap game for TFC.

Some okay performances; play looked better with Jozy and Scuffleburp on, but the game was too disjointed to even judge some performances. Though he didn’t get much to work with, Mullins doesn’t look like much of an upgrade on anyone.

This defensive pairing should never see the pitch.

The team with a few exceptions lacked attacking bite for the majority of the game, and some players simply can’t play physical football.

It sucks that they had to throw this home game, but it’s really hard to figure out what the intention was going into this one. It was a performance not really worth evaluating...

[jazzy]

As soon as Vanney says ‘we’ instead of I as this one is on me , proves to me he doesn’t understand flow or team chemistry . He thinks so much of himself he can win with anyone out there . I’ll ask next season ticket reup, if I can delay payment for only the important games that Vanney decides we actually should field a team . Ridiculous as in the past how he decides to write off 3 points . No other coach who valued his job would be so arrogant .

[OgtheDim]

Defence without Gonzalez or Moore isn't good enough. The rest is all noise.

[stevep]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1152759215687118848?s=19

hes done after this game
who in they're right mind can defend him any longer

[OgtheDim]

People on here need to look at how every other team in the league rotates its squad this heavily, if not more so, when playing 3 games in 7 days. Every single one of those players out there tonight to start has had decent games of late.

Our biggest issue remains that our defence is the second worst in the league, in my opinion. Without Moor or Gonzalez or Mavinga we will not win.

[Thomas]

What a wasted match. This is the first time since TFC started as a team that I left the game at half time. With the payroll we have and the talent, there is no excuse for putting out that line up. I’m not going to comment on the players, as this has already been covered here....but I will say that I don’t want to see Zavs starting for us ever again. Ciman is still usable if he has good players around him. Good night.

[Initial B]

In my mind, Zaveleta just played himself out of the starting roster, useful on the bench only in case of emergencies. I can't see how we could justify him and his salary next year. Tonight, I'm glad I watched the Fury win 4-0 instead.

[Auzzy]

People on here need to look at how every other team in the league rotates its squad this heavily, if not more so, when playing 3 games in 7 days. Every single one of those players out there tonight to start has had decent games of late.

Our biggest issue remains that our defence is the second worst in the league, in my opinion. Without Moor or Gonzalez or Mavinga we will not win.

Houston also had 3 games this week, with more travel. And they were 1-8 away before this game. And they were missing their top scorer.

I'm really sick of the excuse making. In addition to our weak defence, we also didn't create enough against a weak team.

[OgtheDim]

Saw the Montreal TFC rivalry video.

Zavs & Ciman were worse tonight in that loss than Williams & Kantari were in the 3-0 playoff pasting we took in 2015. Thankfully we have better CBs around.

[stevep]

Houston also had 3 games this week, with more travel. And they were 1-8 away before this game. And they were missing their top scorer.

I'm really sick of the excuse making.

He really needs to be careful what he says.
He could fast lose his credibility on this message board

[OgtheDim]

Excuse? Houston were utter feces tonight made to look good by our defence because they HAVE a few MLS quality CBs. You want to blame somebody on this, blame Bez.

[reggie]

i thought that tfc 2 games are free.

[Auzzy]

In addition to Vanney, I'm most pissed at Ciman tonight for the defensive disaster.

I mean, we know Zavaleta isn't any good. He's an overpaid backup. But Ciman was the veteran defender out there. He needed to look at that lineup, top to bottom, and realize it's a game he's got to lead, organize, play carefully and conservatively. I felt Ciman was actually a bit better with that in other recent games: going on less crazy kamikaze runs all over the field. Tonight, when he needed to be even more careful, he was a total disaster. Sometimes he was playing so far on one side that it looked he was playing wingback, leaving Zavaleta all alone in square kilometres of space. Other times Ciman and Zavaleta were far too close together, so they could easily be bypassed by a single pass or dribble.

Other times Ciman was aggressively diving into tackles when there was nobody behind him, when he should have stayed on his feet, kept the play in front of him and tried to slow things down.

[Auzzy]

Excuse? Houston were utter feces tonight made to look good by our defence because they HAVE a few MLS quality CBs. You want to blame somebody on this, blame Bez.

It's an excuse, because based on their 1-8 away record before tonight, obviously almost no teams have rotated their squad as disastrously against Houston. Yes our defense was weak tonight. Then why wasn't Omar out there? If he's also got an injury, it's really time to hear what the fuck this new sports science company is up to. (Were they ever hired?)

And if Zavs and Ciman were the best defense they could field, then they HAVE to play conservatively. (In that context, why is Vanney unable to get players to do what he wants them to do?) And then you don't leave Fraser alone in front of them. Play Fraser together with Bradley to shield the weak defense. Instead Vanney added Endoh and Chapman, who don't defend much. Plus no Delgado, who is at least decent in the high press and in intercepting & breaking up plays.

As we saw in 2018, Vanney seems incapable of coming up with a game plan to shield a weak defense.

[Red CB Toronto]

With that starting 11 what did we really expect?

[Auzzy]

With that starting 11 what did we really expect?

I don't expect to see a starting 11 like that.

Does anyone know approx. what time it was during the game, that Houston had a possible handball in their box?

[Brooker]

In addition to Vanney, I'm most pissed at Ciman tonight for the defensive disaster.

.

I was pretty shocked with him aswell. He looked like a headless chicken. All over the place and making ridiculous tackle attempts.

[metaxa]

Ciman is just going through the motions, he lacks desire and purpose.

[stevep]

in case anyone has not figured this out yet. garreth wheeler is a tfc shill

[reggie]

im still pissed....a saturday night at home after 2 wins off the break and then this shite.worst loss in 2 years,play your best players.jozy and bradley have missed like 8 to 10 games each already.they can rest in nov and dec....shame on you coach...

[Brooker]

in case anyone has not figured this out yet. garreth wheeler is a tfc shill

I have another word that springs to mind....

It begins with C and ends with UNT.

Don't give his name the time of day.

[Areathrasher]

I'm still absolutely seething about last night. A fucking disgrace.

[Fort York Redcoat]

in case anyone has not figured this out yet. garreth wheeler is a tfc shill

I'm enjoying his calling CanPL matches.

I hope that turns into something he could leave his pod/insider for. His interesting coverage of this team isn't worth the ingenuous positivity.

[MightyDM]

People on here need to look at how every other team in the league rotates its squad this heavily, if not more so, when playing 3 games in 7 days. Every single one of those players out there tonight to start has had decent games of late.

Our biggest issue remains that our defence is the second worst in the league, in my opinion. Without Moor or Gonzalez or Mavinga we will not win.

Of course rotation is acceptable and I agree that everyone on the pitch earned their time. But the coach still has to put a lineup together that has balance and hides players weaknesses. Putting Zavs Ciman and Fraser together exposed their weaknesses. Gonzalez, Zavs and Fraser might have worked and we might have won the game, for example.

Edit (after reading thread) or Bradley Fraser or Delgado Fraser

[ensco]

Defence without Gonzalez or Moore isn't good enough. The rest is all noise.

I keep waiting for Ciman to turn the corner... amazing how the outcome of a single signing can turn things.
__________

When the game Wednesday ended I saw at least three TFC players collapse on the field at the final whistle. The heat and humidity were high. Last night had to be as bad or worse.

What Vanney is trying to do is prevent injuries. But he doesn’t have the horses.

[MightyDM]

At the game, it looked like a 4-1-3-2 with Fraser the “1” and Oso and Mullins the “2”. That’s a strange formation given Fraser’s youth and the defending problems we have had when Gonzalez and Moor are not in the pitch. 4-2-3-1 would have made more sense with Delgado or Bradley (as above) or even Deleon beside Fraser if it had to be the players in the pitch. That formation would also put Oso in a better position to succeed where his skills are best utilized.

Vanney was very critical of the players last night. He said “no leadership” but he put a team on with a rookie keeper as Captain - that’s a statement by him that he doesn’t think any of the outfield players are leaders. The only one he could be was Oso (or possibly Deleon) and hard to run a game playing up front.

We have seen this a lot from Vanney. It’s strange. Like he has a blind spot in His own head.

Also interesting that he said the players on The field have played their way down the depth chart. And that the goals were ridiculous. I think he was referring to Ciman mostly.

The company line after was “no energy”. I don’t buy that. Given who was on the pitch, we were playing fairly well going forward - Chapman had a tidy game for example - but were completely vulnerable to the counter attack. “No defense” or “no tackling” should have been the statement.

The third goal was the killer. As Vanney said, it was ridiculous. If we don’t concede there, our goal might have made Houston stumble - a team on a bad run like that could think “here we go again”. Inexplicably bad defending.

[MightyDM]

I still think we are going to move a midfielder. Fraser and Chapman deserve and have earned minutes. There isn’t room for Osorio Delgado Deleon Bradley and Poz to all get first team minutes, let alone for Fraser and Chapman.

[MightyDM]

I keep waiting for Ciman to turn the corner... amazing how the outcome of a single signing can turn things.
__________

When the game Wednesday ended I saw at least three TFC players collapse on the field at the final whistle. The heat and humidity were high. Last night had to be as bad or worse.

What Vanney is trying to do is prevent injuries. But he doesn’t have the horses.

That’s fair but he needs to be smarter about it. For a former defender, he seems to have a very odd blind spot about setting up a defense.

Also, our injuries seem to be in training. Perhaps someone needs to look at that.

[ManUtd4ever]

I suspect that was the last time Vanney will field a B squad under similar circumstances.

Very disappointing to basically concede 3 points at home.

[ensco]

I don't know why people think Vanney was hiding from what happened.

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1152756711754731526?s=21

[ag futbol]

Chapman had a tidy game for example - but were completely vulnerable to the counter attack. “No defense” or “no tackling” should have been the statement.

I think Chapman had a tidy game too and did exactly what the coach expected of him. It was also a bloody useless performance.

It was all running to provide an outlet and quickly moving the ball on. He never bothered to look and see what the game was giving him or if he had other options to dribble his defender, shoot, or split lines with a good pass. Every time: run, receive pass, cycle ball, repeat.

This was a player that has shown he's capable of some good things on occasion. Obviously he's not going to take up the role of a Pozuelo on the team but we seem to have coached all the ambition out of him (and the rest of the supporting cast). Everyone who is not a star has been stripped down to being a robot. There needs to be at least some individual freedom to make decisions.

[ag futbol]

I don't know why people think Vanney was hiding from what happened.

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1152756711754731526?s=21
Not really the issue here.

We've seen what a Ciman-Zavaleta pairing at CB was capable of before. To trot that out and shield it with an inexperienced DM and a positionally inept Nick DeLeon? No wonder a team that has stunk on the road and was missing one of their best attacking options cut through our lines with ease.

Vanney can call it as he sees it after the game as many times as he wants. He can make mistakes. But will he change? I'm getting to the point where i'm doubting he will. This game was thrown away by the coach making the same errors he has made in the past.

[stevep]

I suspect that was the last time Vanney will field a B squad under similar circumstances.

Very disappointing to basically concede 3 points at home.

I suspect these will be the last 5 regular season games at BMO field for Greg Vanney. read the comments on twitter, the guy is hated now
that was unacceptable, you don't get away with that, that was a massive f.u. to the fans



note: all twitter comments regarding last nights game have been erased

https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfclive?lang=en

[stegosaurus]

I still think we are going to move a midfielder. Fraser and Chapman deserve and have earned minutes. There isn’t room for Osorio Delgado Deleon Bradley and Poz to all get first team minutes, let alone for Fraser and Chapman.

Fraser was exposed, and there wasn’t much he could do... maybe a bit less flair and a little more hustle. Did he lose the ball a few times? Yes, but you have to expect those sorts of mistakes from him given his age and development. He also completed the most passes with an accuracy of 90% and was mostly successful on long balls.

Even when Bradley plays he usually has Delgado to rely on to provide some defensive backup, and the results are going to be bad anytime we have a Ciman/Zavaleta pairing (Ciman honestly looked fine when he was the only CB on the pitch in a previous game, but paired with Zavaleta they’re terrible).

Defensively we were incredibly poor, and we didn’t really have a lot of disciplined defending going on despite Vanney’s career as a defender.

Shockingly enough, we were missing Delgado out there tonight. Not for his presence going forward, but for the help in midfield before the ball ends up just wandering past whatever our back line was today. Is he injured?

I thought Chapman was poor. Far too weak, always loses the ball and never wins it, too timid to get past anyone... on the wing or side he’s ineffective, and creatively through the middle he’s questionable and far too slow.

Osorio’s passing was good tonight, but the offensive bite without Jozy on the pitch absolutely vanishes. The slip and subsequent backheel on the dribble was a bit of a classic Osorio move, but the pitch seemed pretty slippery tonight and a few other players went down too.

Deleon hustled and worked hard. Endoh looked okay but has a lot of trouble with physical defenders, as does Auro. They have the odd moment where they manage to get past, but usually don’t make anything of it.

We also STILL had issues with moving forward and recycling the ball backwards or sideways.

Jozy, the Shaft and Bradley looked pretty decent after coming on, with Jozy playing playmaker and striker very well, but he can’t do it all himself. Team looked better offensively though. Mullins was a head scratcher.

Based on the decision to lineup the way Vanney did, the match was abject failure. Putting Jozy and Scufflebutt on at half show that at least Vanney noticed it was stupid, but I’m not sure how he thought he could get away with that.

The problem is that this game wasn’t entirely on the defense, who were awful, but also on the midfield, who were also awful. We played incredibly poorly and slowly, but still had virtually no reaction to Houston’s speedy counter. At the least, someone could have been brought in to strengthen up the defense before we ended up down three goals... when has TFC had recent success against teams bunkering?

Again, there’s no excuse for Vanney to have selected the squad he did tonight unless his hands were tied by injuries or squad management. Houston has been terrible away and even tonight they weren’t showing any sort of exceptional play, but we setup for failure despite knowing how they play.

[TFC1986]

I don't believe 100% blame is on Vanney.
3 games in one week and we claimed 6 points in first 2.
So he came in with a different plan clearly.
He was probably hoping game would be tied at half and then Bradley and Altidore could get some firepower going in second half.
Ciman stunk last night really bad. And because of that it rub off clearly on Zavaleta. Or maybe the other way around.
Our offense was great. It was our defense that couldn't get the ball up or defend correctly.
Also I was glad to see the team take shots, as earlier in the year it was one too many passes.
As per our poll we did at beginning of season we will be probably borderline into playoffs.
And if our top guys like pozuelo and Bradley and Altidore can have a litte rest. Than I don't mind losing. Especially with the one and done new playoff format.
Making it into playoffs is what it's about to me. We clearly aren't going to get first or second place in our conference, as our "B" team isn't strong enough

[ensco]

Not really the issue here.

We've seen what a Ciman-Zavaleta pairing at CB was capable of before. To trot that out and shield it with an inexperienced DM and a positionally inept Nick DeLeon? No wonder a team that has stunk on the road and was missing one of their best attacking options cut through our lines with ease.

Vanney can call it as he sees it after the game as many times as he wants. He can make mistakes. But will he change? I'm getting to the point where i'm doubting he will. This game was thrown away by the coach making the same errors he has made in the past.

Ur, not quite. Ciman looked pretty good this week against NYRB, and has been looking better lately. Zavaleta had been better lately too.

I don't know that the idea that they "couldn't " play together made as much obvious sense as you say. Vanney's reliance on them was only a mistake in hindsight.

[TheGoodson]

Is everyone done bitching yet?

JFC... three games in 7 days in this oppressive heat and humidity. There was going to be squad rotations, last nights game goes to show us that our depth isn’t what is was like 2017 and in a salary capped league is near impossible to have. Last night showed that the following players aren’t good enough: Zavaletta, champman, ciman and Mullan. Maybe ciman can play with a better defender next to him. Champman is at best a CPL player.

A lot of the issues with the squad composition is the fault of Bez, his last year and a half everything he did was crap and now we are seeing the effects of this. Curtis needs time, by next year at this point if he hasn’t improved the squad then yes he should go as well. Vanney is doing what he can do with what is given to him. If he would have trotted out a full line up and jozy, Omar or Bradley got hurt then all hell would have broken loose. Just think about it.

Fraser needs to play with better players but yet he is no where near ready to replace Bradley. He slow reacting to plays and his passing is sporadic. No team in the league can win with all 3 DPs out. This team is really missing a proper 9 to back up
Jozy. When there is no reference point up top and a lack of creativity, TFC plays side ways with no impetus to attack.

That being said s healthy TFC is a top 3-5 team in this league and if all of the negative nancies can’t see that maybe it’s time to take up a new sport.

[Auzzy]

Just wanted to add that Chapman played a significant role in the 2nd Houston goal. Chapman gave up on his runner, slowed down and started ball watching, before realizing and trying to recover too late. The Houston player ended up with way too much time on the wing, and put in a nice pass to set up the goal.

I guess Auro could have picked up the guy, but he probably thought Chapman would stay with him, and Auro probably felt he needed to help his shambolic CBs instead.

[ag futbol]

Ur, not quite. Ciman looked pretty good this week against NYRB, and has been looking better lately. Zavaleta had been better lately too.

I don't know that the idea that they "couldn't " play together made as much obvious sense as you say. Vanney's reliance on them was only a mistake in hindsight.
He looks good playing next to a better defender. Something we’ve seen with Zavaleta in the past as well.

The totality of lineup and tactical decisions last night were baffling. Why were we playing so open with a B lineup against a team that likes to hit on the counter?

[Auzzy]

Is everyone done bitching yet?

JFC... three games in 7 days in this oppressive heat and humidity. There was going to be squad rotations, last nights game goes to show us that our depth isn’t what is was like 2017 and in a salary capped league is near impossible to have. Last night showed that the following players aren’t good enough: Zavaletta, champman, ciman and Mullan. Maybe ciman can play with a better defender next to him. Champman is at best a CPL player.

A lot of the issues with the squad composition is the fault of Bez, his last year and a half everything he did was crap and now we are seeing the effects of this. Curtis needs time, by next year at this point if he hasn’t improved the squad then yes he should go as well. Vanney is doing what he can do with what is given to him. If he would have trotted out a full line up and jozy, Omar or Bradley got hurt then all hell would have broken loose. Just think about it.

Fraser needs to play with better players but yet he is no where near ready to replace Bradley. He slow reacting to plays and his passing is sporadic. No team in the league can win with all 3 DPs out. This team is really missing a proper 9 to back up
Jozy. When there is no reference point up top and a lack of creativity, TFC plays side ways with no impetus to attack.

That being said s healthy TFC is a top 3-5 team in this league and if all of the negative nancies can’t see that maybe it’s time to take up a new sport.

LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!

[stevep]

LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!

Goodson's thoughts are in the extreme minority. I was going to direct you to tfc live and Toronto fc Twitter but all comments regarding last night's game have been purged.

I have long suspected that some people on this board pretend to be fans but are really MLS empolyees designed to steer the direction of the conversation in one way or to redirect the conversation away from subjects that they do not want discussed.


Also, without naming names look at all your trusted sources on tfc on Twitter.
Not one has posted anything negative regarding the lineup selection. Hmm

[ag futbol]

Forgive my ignorance, as i’m not sure how Twitter’s search function works or can be manipulated, but I still see a boatload of negative comments.

You just have to add “Vanney” or “Zavaleta” to a #tfclive search and it all comes up.

[Oldtimer]

Anyone who knows Twitter culture realizes that Twitter is not reflective of real life, so you can't argue it as an objective source. For all you know half the critical posts could be from Impact supporters. It's how Twitter is.

I don't think there are many MLSE employees on here. I personally have met people on both sides of supporting and hating Vanney. These are real people not MLSE trolls.

Now the official TFC media (eg Gareth Wheeler) is completely different and has the flavour of Soviet propaganda in the past. That should be taken with a grain of salt (or maybe a kilo of salt).

[TheGoodson]

Goodson's thoughts are in the extreme minority. I was going to direct you to tfc live and Toronto fc Twitter but all comments regarding last night's game have been purged.

I have long suspected that some people on this board pretend to be fans but are really MLS empolyees designed to steer the direction of the conversation in one way or to redirect the conversation away from subjects that they do not want discussed.


Also, without naming names look at all your trusted sources on tfc on Twitter.
Not one has posted anything negative regarding the lineup selection. Hmm


Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch

[TheGoodson]

LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!

The fucking entitlement from you and a lot of other people on this board is a joke. It’s funny that the people you bash all get paid to do their jobs and you being the keyboard warrior Know better then all of them??? That’s why you pay to watch the games. You all sound like USMNT fans.

Again objectively this squad issues is on Bez... but the easy or lazy narrative is to blame Curtis. He’s had a whole 6-7 months a winter market and a salary cap that wasn’t in the best shape. But yeah the coach is at fault as he doesn’t have the tools. We could have Zidane, Klopp or Pep and it wouldn’t matter as we have starting 11 that can compete with any team, but the squad 14-30 is terrible.

that’s the reality of the MLS if you can’t or won’t understand this then maybe just stick to watching what ever other leagues you are watch as this league isn’t for you

[stegosaurus]

Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch

Don’t take it too harshly. There are a lot of wingnut responses on here; just read everything as though it were written by “that uncle” who has since been disallowed from attending family events.

[Bushmancan]

Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch


Respectfully, what a stupid comment. You don't know when people started following TFC, you just know when they joined the board.

Although, not all us joined the forum day 1, we have been going to Shoeless since very early days, been suffering throughout and can relate. What the major beef is that, TFC is a pimple on the MLSE revenue and expense lines. We saw what a winner could do for a city and a fan base. To be competitive now is the mandate and why not be a bigger spending team (they can afford it). It generates great content for the media outlets and TFC has one of the most vocal and loyal fan bases. You go to the game and you don't sit on your ass and have fun. The fans deserve more than what we got yesterday.

To put a competitive team on the field is challenging but not impossible.... from a coaching perspective, we put our two weakest defenders on with an inexperienced but getting better holding midfielder in Fraser. All three goals were shit, it looked like 2017. We dominate the play and then let a counter attack destroy us. He should have then let Bono play to be consistent and hang out to dry as well.

We had momentum ... Vanney needs to stand up and say, I tried to rest people but clearly I f--ked up in my selection and then maybe I would give him some props. This isn't 2010 when we had no depth in players, we have the bench and the people to avoid this type of a shit show now. We better come out strong next week against Cinci.