Match Day 14 - TFC @ Van Friday May 31 10pm - We're gonna need

[OgtheDim]

Holy ****, we're gonna need a ton of luck
Even though we are all born innocent
It doesn't take too much to **** it up



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku9plNw5Dh8

****************

Have at It People

[Ultra & Proud]

How many matches can we lose in a row before we see a change in something, anything?

This should be one more to toss on the pile.

[Oldtimer]

How many matches can we lose in a row before we see a change in something, anything?

This should be one more to toss on the pile.

It certainly feels like we could keep on losing until the transfer window... and beyond if Curtis doesn't deliver.

[Ultra & Proud]

It certainly feels like we could keep on losing until the transfer window... and beyond if Curtis doesn't deliver.
I feel there will be a lot of 2-1 losses until then.

[MightyDM]

Everything feels like a loss. So I am going for a win. Jozy goes crazy.

[Mikmacdo]

If Bradley and Osorio are healthy I’m calling it a win, even if just one of them are healthy I still think they win.

Westburg

Ciman-Moor-Mavinga-Morrow
——Fraser—-Bradley——-
Laryea-Pozuelo-Osorio
————Jozy—————

Would be my starting 11. Try Ciman at RB with Auro out. Laryea showed me on the right wing in one game than Deleon has all season.

[Initial B]

Don't sleep on Marc dos Santos - He's doing exactly what he did with the Fury: Get them proficient in his desired defensive shape, then build the offense out from there, usually some variations between a 4-3-3 and a diamond 4-4-2. I'm thinking it's a 2-1 loss again. We'll probably score one but they're going to torch us on pace and score two on the counter.

[James17930]

It seems like we were trying to change things up in the SJ game (although I admit I only saw the first half, so I don't know what happened afterwards). It seemed like were trying to really consciously move the ball quicker, have quicker passes and get just fire more shots on net. But then we were let down by terrible defensive brain-farts.

So who knows what to expect from this game.

[Carter]

If Bradley and Osorio are healthy I’m calling it a win, even if just one of them are healthy I still think they win.

Westburg

Ciman-Moor-Mavinga-Morrow
——Fraser—-Bradley——-
Laryea-Pozuelo-Osorio
————Jozy—————

Would be my starting 11. Try Ciman at RB with Auro out. Laryea showed me on the right wing in one game than Deleon has all season.

I don’t think you understand the formation we play...

You are probably looking at something like

Bono

Zavaleta-moor-Mavinga
———-Bradley—————
Delgado——-Morrow
Chapman—Fraser—-Morgan
——Boyd———

Nephew will be our flyer down the right, we will sub on Dorsey instead of Jozy when we are down a goal at 75 minutes...

:yum::yum::yum::drinking:

Oh and we will find out about Bradley’s “trade” this week and he’s gone as soon as the window opens... (tinfoil hat)

[Section_105]

I don’t think you understand the formation we play...

You are probably looking at something like

Bono

Zavaleta-moor-Mavinga
———-Bradley—————
Delgado——-Morrow
Chapman—Fraser—-Morgan
——Boyd———

Nephew will be our flyer down the right, we will sub on Dorsey instead of Jozy when we are down a goal at 75 minutes...

:yum::yum::yum::drinking:

Oh and we will find out about Bradley’s “trade” this week and he’s gone as soon as the window opens... (tinfoil hat)

LOL,

If my PS4 were set up I'd play this in FIFA and see what the hell happens. would be fantastic.

[OgtheDim]

Bradley & Osorio unlikley & Auro too

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1133409957779574785


I get the feeling Osorio & Bradley are injuries that without the Gold Cup they'd either ignore or only take 1 week off.

[stegosaurus]

Bradley & Osorio unlikley & Auro too

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1133409957779574785


I get the feeling Osorio & Bradley are injuries that without the Gold Cup they'd either ignore or only take 1 week off.

Auro is either pretty injury prone or our medical and training staff are still doing something wrong.

[Mikmacdo]

Auro is either pretty injury prone or our medical and training staff are still doing something wrong.
Moor, Jozy, Auro and Bradley all have had hamstring issues? I thought the Italian was some kind of hamstring guru.

[MightyDM]

Anyone going to the match? Cannot find west coast thread that’s usually up for these games and KidA has moved east. Wondering about pregame meet up

[Mark TFC]

Anyone going to the match? Cannot find west coast thread that’s usually up for these games and KidA has moved east. Wondering about pregame meet up

West Coast thread is on the third page.

[MightyDM]

West Coast thread is on the third page.

Got it, thanks.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Man Vancouver looked pretty happy at home vs Dallas. Friday will be a tense night.

Glad no Raps that night.

[Hamilton_Red]

It’s unbelievable how much this team has fallen apart. 6 weeks ago I’d have said that we would destroy Vancouver and be a shoe in for the Voyageurs Cup. They were rank awful and the club’s morale was as low as possible. MDS has really improved them & they are getting some mojo back. I won’t be surprised if we get thrashed. It does feel like Bradley has left the building already. We’ve gone from the deepest team in MLS to the shallowest in the shortest time possible.

[Mikmacdo]

It’s unbelievable how much this team has fallen apart. 6 weeks ago I’d have said that we would destroy Vancouver and be a shoe in for the Voyageurs Cup. They were rank awful and the club’s morale was as low as possible. MDS has really improved them & they are getting some mojo back. I won’t be surprised if we get thrashed. It does feel like Bradley has left the building already. We’ve gone from the deepest team in MLS to the shallowest in the shortest time possible.
When you only have two TAM players and one DP who misses a ton of games you will be shallow as any team.

[Areathrasher]

It’s unbelievable how much this team has fallen apart. 6 weeks ago I’d have said that we would destroy Vancouver and be a shoe in for the Voyageurs Cup. They were rank awful and the club’s morale was as low as possible. MDS has really improved them & they are getting some mojo back. I won’t be surprised if we get thrashed. It does feel like Bradley has left the building already. We’ve gone from the deepest team in MLS to the shallowest in the shortest time possible.

How?

[portu]

I think this board has started to creep into panic mode. Don't think we're there yet. Other seasons? Sure. But the playoff structure allowing 7 teams per conference changes a lot. We haven't won in 5, but we're still in the playoffs.

[glaze]

The new playoff structure makes reg season way more important. Single game elimination is a huge deal.
I don't think we will see a team reach the final playing every game on the road.

[portu]

The new playoff structure makes reg season way more important. Single game elimination is a huge deal.
I don't think we will see a team reach the final playing every game on the road.

Oh shit I didn't pick that up. Goes both ways then. You really can't afford to squeeze in anymore.

[OgtheDim]

The new playoff structure makes reg season way more important. Single game elimination is a huge deal.
I don't think we will see a team reach the final playing every game on the road.

Not too sure of this - this league isn't used to cup competitions like this.


I think in the West LAFC as a home team is dominant but the rest are beatable in their place in a one off game - RSL would be a pain due to altitude.

In the East, there is no team safe at home but NYC has a big advantage compared to most teams.

[Ultra & Proud]

We’ve gone from the deepest team in MLS to the shallowest in the shortest time possible.

I was thinking about this and comparing our roster to one like San Jose's and what Almeyda gets out of that group. Our 1 through 18 isn't the worst in the league by far and I wonder what a different manager who approached our shortcomings differently could get out of our roster? I guarantee if Almeyda or Dos Santos were running us we would be doing much better than we are right now even if their respective teams aren't really.

With us, the talent is there because we've seen it before in most of the players but the execution (mainly) and overall plan are not.

[portu]

I was thinking about this and comparing our roster to one like San Jose's and what Almeyda gets out of that group. Our 1 through 18 isn't the worst in the league by far and I wonder what a different manager who approached our shortcomings differently could get out of our roster? I guarantee if Almeyda or Dos Santos were running us we would be doing much better than we are right now even if their respective teams aren't really.

With us, the talent is there because we've seen it before in most of the players but the execution (mainly) and overall plan are not.

100%. Even though we didn't bring in reinforcements, we all know the players are better than the results because we've seen it.

Some people may blame Curtis, and to a degree that's fair based on what he did (and didn't) bring in this off-season. But some blame needs to be laid at Vanney's feet when we can't get a result with players that we know are good enough to do so. It's not fair to say we should be at the top of the league or near it with this roster, but we should definitely not be doing this poorly.

[Joe Kool]

I still look forward to seeing this game on Friday. I will continue to watch every minute of every game like I normally do but I will say that the wind is a little bit out of my sails with TFC these days and I find I am not tuning into this forum or any other places for news like I used to. Maybe shit has to really hit the fan to get a reaction. I remember a time when that happened and they brought in Lieweke....Day 1 ticket prices anyone? Haha. Ok but seriously we are not there yet but feeling kind of bummed as a TFC fan these days.

[Oldtimer]

I was thinking about this and comparing our roster to one like San Jose's and what Almeyda gets out of that group. Our 1 through 18 isn't the worst in the league by far and I wonder what a different manager who approached our shortcomings differently could get out of our roster? I guarantee if Almeyda or Dos Santos were running us we would be doing much better than we are right now even if their respective teams aren't really.

With us, the talent is there because we've seen it before in most of the players but the execution (mainly) and overall plan are not.

This kind of belongs more in the Vanney thread.

A more pragmatic manager would probably do better with this bunch (although Vanney frustrates me because just when I'm going to write him off for inflexibility, he does a pragmatic game, although the players didn't execute well). However, Vanney does get a lot out of a very good roster (I think people have forgotten our amazing run in the CCL which certainly reflected his coaching abilities), so it all hinges on who Curtis is going to bring in. If Curtis is going to significantly upgrade the roster, I would certainly favour keeping Vanney. If he's going to either go cheap or do a poor job we might need a different coach to go with this GM.

[portu]

This kind of belongs more in the Vanney thread.

A more pragmatic manager would probably do better with this bunch (although Vanney frustrates me because just when I'm going to write him off for inflexibility, he does a pragmatic game, although the players didn't execute well). However, Vanney does get a lot out of a very good roster (I think people have forgotten our amazing run in the CCL which certainly reflected his coaching abilities), so it all hinges on who Curtis is going to bring in. If Curtis is going to significantly upgrade the roster, I would certainly favour keeping Vanney. If he's going to either go cheap or do a poor job we might need a different coach to go with this GM.
That CCL run was a year ago and we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in the round of 16 in our latest attempt.

[jloome]

That CCL run was a year ago and we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in the round of 16 in our latest attempt.

I think Vanney's a good coach of good players, because he uses a system that attempts to control the clock and build an attack patiently.

I think it's tough to get that combination of players together in this league. And the direction they're more likely going is trying to copy teams like NY and ATL who are selling players they developed for big bucks.

Unless he adapts tactically to what he has, and quickly, he won't be around at the end of the season. My bet is that Curtis has been told to be very careful with his TAM and DP money after the Lieweke years, and whoever we sign in the window will either be a cheap flyer on someone who might 'step up' in MLS as a lower league, or a hot young player from another MLS team, or depth. They're not going to break the bank on a TAM player, or get Bradley to knock his deal down to TAM.

So we don't have a big budget to break. Curtis has to get someone practical but better than MLS, which plenty of other teams have managed. It has to be someone who is adept at beating guys on the dribble but also a finisher, so he can deputize as a striker if necessary, or play next to Jozy instead of wide. And we need a defender at regular MLS prices, to replace Zavaleta in the starting lineup.

Given how weak Auro's defending is, we could use a proper fullback, too.

So, we have serious problems that aren't going to be addressed in one window. I am betting Curtis' consistent message right now is that whether it costs the club a position this year or not, we build from within and buy wisely. It's what he specializes in, it's what MLSE will want to hear.

So I don't think his odds are great. He has to change things up, learn to play with weaker players through tactical adaption. When we played with both Hamilton and Ako up top, they did well. The first time Altidore goes down, he abandons that.

I don't know. Yeah, we need players. But we need more that two offensive sets designed for ideal rosters.

[Oldtimer]

That CCL run was a year ago and we lost to a semi-pro Panamian team in the round of 16 in our latest attempt.

We haven't had the same very good roster. When TFC won the cup, the bonuses that kicked in forced TFC to shed some key players (eg Beitashour) that were necessary to play Vanney's system. The replacements Bez got were duds and Curtis hasn't addressed the issue yet.

So either Curtis gets the players, Vanney adapts to a less than ideal roster (which I think he's capable of but he's stubborn), or we get a new coach. I'm sure Curtis has his own guy on his rolodex ready to replace Vanney so Vanney's tenure isn't completely secure.

[MightyDM]

100%. Even though we didn't bring in reinforcements, we all know the players are better than the results because we've seen it.

Some people may blame Curtis, and to a degree that's fair based on what he did (and didn't) bring in this off-season. But some blame needs to be laid at Vanney's feet when we can't get a result with players that we know are good enough to do so. It's not fair to say we should be at the top of the league or near it with this roster, but we should definitely not be doing this poorly.

Unfortunately, thats true. We are unbalanced but with the midfield strength we have should be playing better and not losing in such crap ways

[MightyDM]

I still look forward to seeing this game on Friday. I will continue to watch every minute of every game like I normally do but I will say that the wind is a little bit out of my sails with TFC these days and I find I am not tuning into this forum or any other places for news like I used to. Maybe shit has to really hit the fan to get a reaction. I remember a time when that happened and they brought in Lieweke....Day 1 ticket prices anyone? Haha. Ok but seriously we are not there yet but feeling kind of bummed as a TFC fan these days.

yah. Blah . Just blah

[OgtheDim]

Don't expect Osorio - Wheeler tweeted out something about him & Henry having "legit injury concerns" for the Gold Cup.

[MightyDM]

I think Vanney's a good coach of good players, because he uses a system that attempts to control the clock and build an attack patiently.

I think it's tough to get that combination of players together in this league. And the direction they're more likely going is trying to copy teams like NY and ATL who are selling players they developed for big bucks.

Unless he adapts tactically to what he has, and quickly, he won't be around at the end of the season. My bet is that Curtis has been told to be very careful with his TAM and DP money after the Lieweke years, and whoever we sign in the window will either be a cheap flyer on someone who might 'step up' in MLS as a lower league, or a hot young player from another MLS team, or depth. They're not going to break the bank on a TAM player, or get Bradley to knock his deal down to TAM.

So we don't have a big budget to break. Curtis has to get someone practical but better than MLS, which plenty of other teams have managed. It has to be someone who is adept at beating guys on the dribble but also a finisher, so he can deputize as a striker if necessary, or play next to Jozy instead of wide. And we need a defender at regular MLS prices, to replace Zavaleta in the starting lineup.

Given how weak Auro's defending is, we could use a proper fullback, too.

So, we have serious problems that aren't going to be addressed in one window. I am betting Curtis' consistent message right now is that whether it costs the club a position this year or not, we build from within and buy wisely. It's what he specializes in, it's what MLSE will want to hear.

So I don't think his odds are great. He has to change things up, learn to play with weaker players through tactical adaption. When we played with both Hamilton and Ako up top, they did well. The first time Altidore goes down, he abandons that.

I don't know. Yeah, we need players. But we need more that two offensive sets designed for ideal rosters.

I found that baffling. it is almost like he wanted Hamilton to fail. And some other stuff - the line up against Atlanta, playing Bradley and Oso until they got hurt, Dorsey on the bench instead of Shaffleburg - little things, but bizarre judgment.

Van der Weil was right. Its like the 94 Jays, unfortunately - the club isn't committed to doing everything to win aka "you're not trying to win" and Vanney will be the first fall guy in a cynical move by Curtis.

[MightyDM]

Also, i know this is the wrong place but bear with me mods - is anyone meeting up pregame in Vancouver and if so where?

[pfk]

Man Vancouver looked pretty happy at home vs Dallas. Friday will be a tense night.

Glad no Raps that night.

Bit early on this, but I was checking the schedule for the next home game and the Raps play Game 4 on Fri June 7 at 9 when TFC plays SKC at home.

[OgtheDim]

Jozy confirmed in Vancouver, in case anybody was asking.

[ag futbol]

Van der Weil was right. Its like the 94 Jays, unfortunately - the club isn't committed to doing everything to win aka "you're not trying to win" and Vanney will be the first fall guy in a cynical move by Curtis.
While I agree what we’re seeing from the club lately is underwhelming, the headline of that VDW saga reads something like “Hobo tells Business Man to Get Job”

[MightyDM]

While I agree what we’re seeing from the club lately is underwhelming, the headline of that VDW saga reads something like “Hobo tells Business Man to Get Job”
Hahahahaha

[stegosaurus]

While I agree what we’re seeing from the club lately is underwhelming, the headline of that VDW saga reads something like “Hobo tells Business Man to Get Job”

“Wealthy ex-Canal swamp German dweller and streetwear enthusiast married to Sports Illustrated Swimsuit model and currently living the good life despite being unemployed” doesn’t have the same ring.

[anto7]

Wow! So 90 mins from game time and this is the first post in the game thread today........not exactly sure what to make of this other than a lack of excitement I guess. Big anniversary celebrations in Vancouver today let’s hope we can spoil their party. At least with Poz and Jozy back together we should be able to create some chances. And Drew making his 400th MLS appearance let’s hope we can make it an occasion he can truly enjoy.

[stegosaurus]

I guess we’ll see whether Boyd actually does anything as he’s starting up too with Jozy.

[barticusz]

I’m clearly not keeping up. Are Bradley and Oso injured?

[Mikmacdo]

I’m clearly not keeping up. Are Bradley and Oso injured?Yes, they both missed the last game.

Hoping Ciman is at RB and Laryea at RM in a 4-4-2 and its not a 3-5-2.

[daner90]

Well Boyd gets his chance with a healthy Poz and Jozy, time to show what you got....if anything

[jloome]

Mavinga way slow there. What the fuck was he doing?

[ag futbol]

Left-right, left, right. No final ball in sight, no movement or attacking runs inside the 18

[stegosaurus]

I’m so excited to watch this new episode of TFC vs Parked Bus!

[OgtheDim]

Bus firmly parked

[portu]

"on the pitch, I think of myself as a monster. I’m one of those guys who presses the defenders to try to force them to make mistakes, and just puts my body into everything. I just go out and kill people in the name of the team." - Terrence Boyd

I'll let everyone on this board decide for themselves if this statement holds up.

[daner90]

We are unreal at getting the ball to the final third and doing absolutely nothing with it.

[OgtheDim]

This team needs to train with a stop watch telling them if they don't get a shot on in 10 seconds they lose it.

[jloome]

We are unreal at getting the ball to the final third and doing absolutely nothing with it.

We seem disinterested in anything but possession. They don't even try to penetrate. They're just tentative at everything. Pull the fucking trigger.

[jloome]

They're HAPPY with this. Is everyone listening? Complete control, with no offensive threat so far, and they're content.

Edit: So they can't even see the inevitable counter goal coming.

[portu]

Fire the whole medical staff. Hold someone accountable for this fucking injury crisis of the last year and a half.

[jloome]

See Vancouver pulling us up field? That's tactics.

We don't move the other team. We just try to play through them

[OgtheDim]

Ugh. Not good

[ag futbol]

We seem disinterested in anything but possession. They don't even try to penetrate. They're just tentative at everything. Pull the fucking trigger.
Agreed. Just forget where the ball is and watch the 3-4 guys in the box waiting for the pass. Waiting is the key word here because nobody moves until it’s clear there might be a final ball coming. That’s not good enough, they need to anticipate.

[notthesun]

Fraser is good, maybe it is time to move on from Bradley

[portu]

Holy fuck Fraser is excellent.

[jloome]

This is sonambulant.

It's like they're all having a nice Sunday kick around.

Fuck.

[Bushmancan]

Boyd cannot be that bad. He has zero confidence, if anyone needs a bounce it is him.

[portu]

This is sonambulant.

It's like they're all having a nice Sunday kick around.

Fuck.

Legends Cup Milan v Benfica

[notthesun]

Boyd is an actual donkey lol

I know we're playing a bunkering team applying little pressure but I think Fraser is good enough now that he can be a starter and the team might be better off overall by starting him full time and acquiring a DP box-to-box mid or winger with Bradley's slot. Fraser with a year or two of full time starting DM experience would be pretty nice I think.

[jloome]

Legends Cup Milan v Benfica

Haha, maybe someone will show us their juggling skills.

[OgtheDim]

Delgado is where our offence is stifled.

[jloome]

Boyd is an actual donkey lol

I know we're playing a bunkering team applying little pressure but I think Fraser is good enough now that he can be a starter and the team might be better off overall by starting him full time and acquiring a DP box-to-box mid or winger with Bradley's slot.

Fraser looks very impressive.

Boyd's biggest gift when he was younger was that he was strong and fast, so he surprised defenses. Now he's no longer fast. Remember how burned out Laurent Robert was just four years after his Newcastle world-class days? Without his second gear, his technique was pretty useless.

And so far I see no signs that Boyd actually has technique. He does seem to be working hard, though.

[MightyDM]

Boyd is an actual donkey lol

I know we're playing a bunkering team applying little pressure but I think Fraser is good enough now that he can be a starter and the team might be better off overall by starting him full time and acquiring a DP box-to-box mid or winger with Bradley's slot. Fraser with a year or two of full time starting DM experience would be pretty nice I think.

If Fraser can play DM with Delgado, it frees Bradley to play a different role. We don’t have to use him the way we do.

[jloome]

If Fraser can play DM with Osorio, it frees Bradley to play a different role. We don’t have to use him the way we do.

He looks ready. If he isn't starting regularly after this I'll really wonder what the fuck they're doing.

I mean, with both him and Bradley able to anchor, we have way more flexibility going forward.

[portu]

If Fraser can play DM with Osorio, it frees Bradley to play a different role. We don’t have to use him the way we do.

I miss 2015 Bradley.

I definitely think he's regressed. You don't see him hitting the kind of passes he was in those first two years ever now.

[ag futbol]

Vanney has just coached the creativity out of this team. Unless you’re a Pozuelo, Giovinco, Altidore, your creative license is nil.

When is the last time we allowed a winger to come up the field and just take on their fullback? Rather than back pass it over and over.

[notthesun]

And so far I see no signs that Boyd actually has technique. He does seem to be working hard, though.

Man, how many TFC strikers of years gone by does this describe.

I have no idea why we signed this guy. At least he supposedly came very cheap...

[daner90]

Delgado is where our offence is stifled.

Absolutely. The ball gets moving with some pace and he always just holds it up allowing the other team to get back and set up shop.

[portu]

Vanney "pleased with the half" has me convinced we need to continue to lose to change things at this club.

[OgtheDim]

Fraser looks good but it's not like Vancouver is pressing him at all. Delgado could be looking that good too but he has no compunction to move the ball forward.

[Oldtimer]

Vanney has just coached the creativity out of this team. Unless you’re a Pozuelo, Giovinco, Altidore, your creative license is nil.



You act as if that's a bad thing. I don't think we need the type of "creativity " some of these players would do.

[portu]

You act as if that's a bad thing. I don't think we need the type of "creativity " some of these players would do.
How about confidence instead of creativity? Delgado looks bloody mechanical.

[Oldtimer]

How about confidence instead of creativity? Delgado looks bloody mechanical.

They definitely need more confidence. To get that a win would help.

You're right about Delgado.

[ag futbol]

You act as if that's a bad thing. I don't think we need the type of "creativity " some of these players would do.
Nah disagree. This is how Laryea managed to have a breakout game and how we will get more out of supporting players.

They just need to know if they want they can appropriately pick their spots and not be punished for it.

Right now there could be a great play to be made but if that isn’t within Vanney’s pass-it-around approach nobody wants to make it.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

2 shocking things about the first half:

1. The pace of this match
2. The touch of Boyd: ciment foot Ricketts had a velvet first touch compared to this dude...

[DinamoTFC]

"on the pitch, I think of myself as a monster. I’m one of those guys who presses the defenders to try to force them to make mistakes, and just puts my body into everything. I just go out and kill people in the name of the team." - Terrence Boyd

I'll let everyone on this board decide for themselves if this statement holds up.

I think I've been patient enough and defended him a good amount. But I think he's truly shit. Cant believe we let someone like ricketts go for him for probably the same money.

Ali curtis said this is a 100% his signing. He found boyd and made the deal. What a flop.

I hope boyd gets a lucky goal or assist so I don't completely give up on him.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure how you guys are getting "coached the confidence out" from all this.

We have been talking about TFCs inability to do the final ball for years.

[ag futbol]

I hope Ali Curtis has some better ideas than Boyd coming up to the summer window.

[ag futbol]

Wholly fuck how do you not call that??

[DinamoTFC]

Jozy looking frustrated with his shitty teammates like seba did last year. Delgado and morrow service atrocious

[notthesun]

How does the VAR not tell him to review that?

[Leedsoronto]

What happen to commentary I got pics and late night with Herdman and company as sound !!

[DinamoTFC]

I like what im seeing from fraser past 2 games

[portu]

Jozy looking frustrated with his shitty teammates like seba did last year. Delgado and morrow service atrocious
He has no right to imo. Been either anonymous or poor tonight.

[stegosaurus]

This game is so incredibly boring. So boring that TSN is running a CMNT interview instead of commentating.

Also, Boyd is truly bad. He can’t actually be a footballer. He’s slow, awkward, not good in the air, not good with the ball at his feet, not strong... I’ll never understand this signing except that it’s TFC so of course we have to have useless strikers because MLS wants us to be a repatriation system for USMNT failures.

[BakaGaijin]

Boyd is fucking atrocious. He would struggle in the USL.G
et rid of this clown.

[Still Kicking]

Beware Reyna

[Mikmacdo]

Fraser is good, maybe it is time to move on from Bradley

Fraser needs to start full-time. Sucks richie got hurt. Boyd is useless my god.

[stegosaurus]

Vanney’s doing his best Jogi Löw cosplay.

[Auzzy]

How does the VAR not tell him to review that?

Speaking of somnambulant, why the fuck isn't Vanney up out of his seat, raising hell about that PK non-call? Regardless of whether it was the right call, at least sow some doubt for the next close call. They showed Vanney sitting down after that, looking like he didn't give a shit.

Fraser, Pozuelo & Altidore really have to take some more long shots, might be the best chance against this defense.

Honestly our two remaining DPs haven't been very good tonight either.

Wow holy shit, I was hoping Boyd would start to find his way. But every time he gets the ball is worse than the time before. We got one sub left, put Hamilton on now.

And how bad is this field? Bouncy-ball all the time. By the way STFU Caldwell.

[DinamoTFC]

He has no right to imo. Been either anonymous or poor tonight.

I've been noticing it a few games now. It's getting increasingly worse and he's getting increasingly complacent.

[jloome]

Our first team is stronger but they have way more depth.

[portu]

Okay fuck this. Get Boyd off. I'm writing him off.

[jloome]

Yikes.

[DinamoTFC]

Boyd is fuckin garbage. Ali curtis you fucked up big time with this signing. How did we let ricketts go for this pile of shit

[jloome]

Boyd is fuckin garbage. Ali curtis you fucked up big time with this signing. How did we let ricketts go for this pile of shit

Ricketts had 13 goals in 51 total appearances, and very few starts. He was pretty clutch late and probably buries that.

[Voodooman]

That was dreadful Boyd. Man that CCL game doing that PK was an omen

[Bushmancan]

That was the most shambolic miss I have ever seen in all my years watching TFC. Anyone think of a worse one?

[Auzzy]

OMFG Boyd :puke:

[jazzy]

This game is so incredibly boring. So boring that TSN is running a CMNT interview instead of commentating.

Also, Boyd is truly bad. He can’t actually be a footballer. He’s slow, awkward, not good in the air, not good with the ball at his feet, not strong... I’ll never understand this signing except that it’s TFC so of course we have to have useless strikers because MLS wants us to be a repatriation system for USMNT failures.

just before writing my only thought of this horrid sports event? Which is , it’s virtually guaranteed that Boyd will never score , ever ..thankfully you made me laugh . They’ve fooled us into thinking these are professionals, not the beer league . Mavinga found a way to get out of the game . But watching Boyds just miss , it is a beer league .

[jloome]

That was the most shambolic miss I have ever seen in all my years watching TFC. Anyone think of a worse one?

Cunningham, wiffing on the goal line.

[Mikmacdo]

OMFG Boyd :puke:worst player ive ever seen play for tfc.

[jloome]

We have to play the ball in centrally. This baseline shit with them packling the box doesn't work.

Once again, no tactical adaptation.

[Voodooman]

worst player ive ever seen play for tfc.

Freddy Hall would like some words. Boyd is bad, but not the absolute worst.

[notthesun]

Cunningham, wiffing on the goal line.

Maicon Santos looking off Stevanovic to round the keeper himself and put it wide from 4 yards

[stegosaurus]

Haha, Boyd is literally stealing whatever the MLS minimum salary is. He’s worse than Big Ben Spencer. Are you sure they didn’t just sign him because he has the same name as an actual footballer?

[jloome]

Maicon Santos looking off Stevanovic to round the keeper himself and put it wide from 4 yards

Yeah, that was a true classic as well. Ah, memories....

Although we should all note that the Chadster missed many an open net back in the day.

[portu]

Boy I hope Terrence doesn't read this forum

[Auzzy]

Remember when Morrow could sometimes put in a good cross?

[OgtheDim]

Ugh just ugh

[Voodooman]

OF course a PK....

[Auzzy]

Fucking bullshit.

[portu]

Nice.

[Bushmancan]

Beyond uggh.... it really was a stupid foul. Do it earlier or don’t fuckin do it and let your goalie try to save it. Ciman has a shot earlier, no cards on him. Just fuckin take him out, well outside the box

[notthesun]

hahahahahahahahahaha

[FootBallAZ]

Ugly season.

[DinamoTFC]

Lmfao this team is utter shit.

Ali curtis should be fired for failing to sign a single TAM player

[OgtheDim]

Pace at our defence causes issues

[Mikmacdo]

Wtf moor.

[Voodooman]

I legit feel bad for Westberg.

Don't think he has really done much wrong, yet can't get a way to get a Win.

[ag futbol]

There’s really nothing new about this game vs. our other losses. Lot of the same.

And Vancouver is a well-coached but hapless side

[Mikmacdo]

Vanney out please. Imagine how shit they will be with boyd and hamilton as the only strikers.

[jloome]

Vanney out please. Imagine how shit they will be with boyd and hamilton as the only strikers.

It must be obvious at this point that for all his technical acumen, he couldn't motivate a fire to burn paper.

[Auzzy]

As the breakaway was developing (before the penalty), I saw Ciman and somebody else watching before they started sprinting back. What is that: arrogance? Cluelessness? Lack of conditioning or motivation?

[portu]

It must be obvious at this point that for all his technical acumen, he couldn't motivate a fire to burn paper.

Hahahaha I'm going to use that

[FootBallAZ]

Anyone not named boyd would have scored that cross from pozo.
Morrow can't cross for shit.

[jloome]

So pride finally kicked in.

[FootBallAZ]

Haha wow altidore.

Thought it was gonna end in a last minute goal for a loss.

[Voodooman]

Got to say though, I've really liked DeLeon, and if there has been one good signing, it has been him.

[jloome]

Also, thank you jeebus

[jloome]

Got to say though, I've really liked DeLeon, and if there has been one good signing, it has been him.

He does play with heart, at all times.

[Auzzy]

It must be obvious at this point that for all his technical acumen, he couldn't motivate a fire to burn paper.

As long as Vanney is coach, TFC should always give up a goal in the first 5 minutes. Seems to be the only thing that motivates them.

See what happens when you take shots at goal? Sometimes good things happen.

[Mikmacdo]

The only way deleon can score by deflection lol.

[FootBallAZ]

Good hustle Hamilton.

He should be starting up.front.

[Bushmancan]

It is not that we lose, I could handle it... it is we give up one or two soft stupid goals every game.

Agree with you on Westberg, he must be saying what did I do to deserve this.

[jloome]

More than we deserved.

[Auzzy]

The only way deleon can score by deflection lol.

That's why TFC should have already taken 25 shots like that. With lots of bodies in the box, deflections happen.

[OgtheDim]

Heart - gosh we are crud

Head - draw in the West ; take the point and run

[ag futbol]

More than we deserved.
I thought it was fair. They were pretty bad as well. Organized, but generally talentless

[DinamoTFC]

Do we aim to only tie games?

We get scored on and we attack immediately.

We then score and start sitting back again.

Fuck this bush league quality and the lack of energy.

[Auzzy]

More than we deserved.

Only problem, Vancouver didn't deserve it either. The kind of game where both teams should get zero points.

[Grandia]

pointed

[DinamoTFC]

Vanney unable to motivate is a serious problem.

Ali Curtis unable to sign players is a serious problem.

Medical staff unable to keep players injury free is a serious problem.

What the fuck happened to this team.

[Still Kicking]

I think that the MLS/player agreement states that if you are still on the roster July 1st, you get paid for your full season. So a player you have no need for gets cut in those final days of June. Check out when we said adios to Ben Spencer last year. Calling June the final month for Terrence Boyd. Adios.

[TFC1154ever]

I legitimately believe we won’t win a game till the transfer window is open. Can you imagine what this team will look like once Altidore, Oso, Bradley, Morgan etc leave for the Gold Cup?

At least last year we could still score and create. Now we concede at the same rate, and other than one guy, nobody has a fucken clue offensively.

This is going to be a long month and a half. Curtis better sign 3 quality players the first fucken day. I would say 4, but I know that ain’t happening.

P.S Boyd making $200’000 is the biggest waste of money in team history. I’d rather play an academy kid, than pay that man $50,000

[stegosaurus]

Wow! What an exhilarating match!

[OgtheDim]

Only problem, Vancouver didn't deserve it either. The kind of game where both teams should get zero points.

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

[Bushmancan]

As the breakaway was developing (before the penalty), I saw Ciman and somebody else watching before they started sprinting back. What is that: arrogance? Cluelessness? Lack of conditioning or motivation?

It was Zavaleta. There were three defenders back with two just watching

[OgtheDim]

Bad things :

Boyd

Delgado

Injuries

Slow defence

Unwillingness to move the ball quickly in or fire it at the net

[Auzzy]

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

I don't agree with the last one. Osorio is better than Delgado, but he's also slower. He would have slowed the game down even more (and done less defensively). What's slower than the snails pace this game was running at?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Only problem, Vancouver didn't deserve it either. The kind of game where both teams should get zero points.

This!
The match was a disgrace.

These kind of MLS "performances" are demonstrating again and again that MLS is lightyears back from the 10 best footy national competitions of the world.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Bad things :

Boyd

Delgado

Injuries

Slow defence

Unwillingness to move the ball quickly in or fire it at the net

This last one is happening forever at TFC.
At this point I think this aspect is impossible to change until Vanney is sacked. No matter he always says at interviews after games that the team need to play faster... he can't motivate them to play faster.

[notthesun]

Wow, I missed the Boyd chance during the game, just saw it on the highlights. That was... a truly embarrassing lack of coordination.

I refuse to believe we scouted him at all. Curtis knew his name, knew he'd be cheap and his reputation fit the playing style of Ricketts.

He legitimately looks worse than Spencer, and the minutes we gave him were already a complete waste versus Hamilton's development. Hamilton, Akinola, hell Shaffelburg too should all be ahead of him in the depth chart.

[Auzzy]

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

The only thing I would add though: Vancouver was tactically smarter. MDS knows that Altidore and Pozuelo can score goals if given the space. He knows what his team is capable of, and their limits. He's trying to get his team to settle down after turmoil. They played accordingly. On the balance of play, it looked like Vancouver was the more likely team to win, despite TFC's possession and other stats.

[reggie]

this roster is awful right now...its not a playoff roster,we need at least 4 new starters.Fraser was my MOTM,i would like to see him play with bradley.sit delgado the field goal kicker and just cut boyd,there is no point.i rather have a tfc 2 player

[Oldtimer]

Bad points:

Boyd (if that's a typical Curtis signing we now know why he was out of a job so long). Boyd shouldn't even dress. But has Curtis even provided Vanney with any other options? (Hamilton ain't it, although he would have scored that chance Boyd missed).

The turf: two of our players get injured from that substandard carpet.

The ref: how he refused to review an obvious penalty is beyond me. He stole a "W" from us.

The "entertainment" value of this slow motion match. Only picked up at the end.

Curtis better have 3-4 decent players ready to sign on day one of the transfer window.

[OgtheDim]

I thought the 3-5-2 was the right call given what we knew going into the game.
They play 3 DMs who don't go forward much in front of 5 defenders.


If we had somebody in the middle more incisive beyond Poz and Altidore, we cause those 3 DMs more issues.

Boyd was not good enough. Can't miss sitters like that but he also had no touch.

DeLeon & Laryea tried on the right but Justin Morrow just isn't offensivly good enough anymore. Great defender in the 3-5-2 but too slow to get into spaces where his crosses could do something.

Delgado is decent defensively but on attack, he's no threat to make the pass or take a shot (that was his best shot of the season).

Also getting really annoyed with NOBODY trying the passes into the forwards making quick runs. You have to try those occasionally just to keep the CBs & DMs honest.

To much attempting to be perfect - which Vanney has continually called out.

[snowcrash]

I don't know what Fraser needs to do to get just a little more foot speed. That's probably the biggest issue with his game right now. He's got all the other tools than an extra half step would make a such a big difference. Maybe lose a bit of weight, get a running coach, whatever.

[Initial B]

Just watched the highlights and agree that Boyd's time here is done. He isn't what he used to be and his confidence is pretty destroyed and I don't think he has the character to come back from that.

As for Delgado, he didn't look that bad on the highlights. The one player who crystalized in my mind that he should be gone from TFC (besides Boyd) is Zavaleta. Look on the MLS website at the highlights at the 0:30 mark: Reyna turns Zavaleta into a pylon and the chase is on. Focus on Zavaleta. Look at his body language midway through the run: He. Just. Gives. Up. That sequence just made me realize he has no desire to get better. As he gives up, who continues the chase even though he started further behind the play? Delgado. I'll take Marky and drop Zavs as soon as a decent depth CB becomes available. I expect players to give their all on the pitch, even if they aren't as talented as others. I didn't see that from Zavaleta.

[stegosaurus]

Liam Fraser played well. Probably the best player on the pitch for us tonight.

I don’t think Delgado played super poorly; he’s actually pretty good defensively, but the end product isn’t really there. Does Vanney not make him practice shooting?

Pozo was all right but there was never any space for him to operate.

Jozy seemed like he was playing how he’d play had he been paired with Seba, not Boyd. He was further back trying to start plays and even getting in some defensive work, but I don’t think that’s the best way for him to play when our option up top is Boyd.

Moor showing why he’s pretty much cooked. Mavinga hurt again. Ciman wasn’t a disaster but was misplacing passes all night. Zavaleta meh.

Westberg looked okay. Deleon as well, but we really have problems at LB/RB. Morrow has slowed down too much, usually loses the ball to the goal line instead of making the cross, crosses are not terribly good (and playing for corners when we have terrible setpieces isn’t a solid strategy), rarely beats defenders anymore. He looks completely different from 2017. Laryea was okay but not much impact, and now injured. Hamilton probably touched the ball 5 times, so jury’s out.

Even if Boyd was a footballer at one point, he’s not anymore. He’s completely one dimensional and doesn’t seem to possess any of the qualities you’d want in a backup striker let alone someone starting. If you want cheap (he’d better be cheap) depth, sign a kid who scored some goals or shows promise. Even someone like Luke Moore demonstrated some aspect of understanding the concept of this sport and could put the ball in the net once in a while. Even Big Ben recorded an assist. Ricketts scored a bunch of times and saved us some games... we’ve had lots of poor quality strikers in general, but Boyd has no place in “MLS 3.0.”

Our physios and medical need a checkup considering the number of injuries sustained over the last year and a half, and the constant re-injuries.

We collected a point in one of the worst games I’ve watched in ages, but this team is far too slow, far too dependent on individual performances, missing far too many pieces to play proper possession football, and far from winning the cup even if we do make the playoffs. We’re back to never winning if a team parks the bus (even if down 1-2 men).

Vanney didn’t seem very interested. He made an adjustment today, but you may as well just play anyone else instead of Boyd. Maybe there’s something none of us have seen? The commentators both opposition and our own seem to think he’s a dangerous, aerial threat and a strong, fast, athletic player. He isn’t any of these things.

Curtis needs to give his head a shake for his performance in the last window, however difficult it was, and for signing off on Boyd. I’d rather have an Oduro or Ricketts type player with absolutely no technique and the touch of an enraged hippo; at least “gotta go fast” players add some excitement to the playing the ball backwards and sideways through molasses while the opposing team sits back until a weaker player makes a mistake.

[C.Ronaldo]

Just watched the highlights and agree that Boyd's time here is done. He isn't what he used to be and his confidence is pretty destroyed and I don't think he has the character to come back from that.

As for Delgado, he didn't look that bad on the highlights. The one player who crystalized in my mind that he should be gone from TFC (besides Boyd) is Zavaleta. Look on the MLS website at the highlights at the 0:30 mark: Reyna turns Zavaleta into a pylon and the chase is on. Focus on Zavaleta. Look at his body language midway through the run: He. Just. Gives. Up. That sequence just made me realize he has no desire to get better. As he gives up, who continues the chase even though he started further behind the play? Delgado. I'll take Marky and drop Zavs as soon as a decent depth CB becomes available. I expect players to give their all on the pitch, even if they aren't as talented as others. I didn't see that from Zavaleta.

Sse that happen live and at first thought he pulled something. It was infact a d dismal display of indifference. Like he saif "fuck it , let marky run"

[shwade]

It must be obvious at this point that for all his technical acumen, he couldn't motivate a fire to burn paper.

He would be an excellent assistant coach. Too bad theres no way to demote him to that position.

[Derko]

I thought the 3-5-2 was the right call given what we knew going into the game.
They play 3 DMs who don't go forward much in front of 5 defenders.


If we had somebody in the middle more incisive beyond Poz and Altidore, we cause those 3 DMs more issues.

Boyd was not good enough. Can't miss sitters like that but he also had no touch.

DeLeon & Laryea tried on the right but Justin Morrow just isn't offensivly good enough anymore. Great defender in the 3-5-2 but too slow to get into spaces where his crosses could do something.

Delgado is decent defensively but on attack, he's no threat to make the pass or take a shot (that was his best shot of the season).

Also getting really annoyed with NOBODY trying the passes into the forwards making quick runs. You have to try those occasionally just to keep the CBs & DMs honest.

To much attempting to be perfect - which Vanney has continually called out.

You are giving Vanney an out with that comment, It's Vanney's tactic, always, pass pass pass, not shots, Stupid

[stegosaurus]

Part of it is the limited squad and not adapting to it, but individually with a couple of exceptions the squad isn’t bad. Again, this playstyle aggravates issues and really points out weaker links.

Part of it is on Vanney, and part is on Curtis. That said, I think a lot of people are wondering whether TFC’s good performances were basically just down to the players themselves rather than the coaching; this season a lot of Vanney’s comments seem to indicate that not only has the FO not delivered what he needs to play his system, but also that the players aren’t doing what they’re told, aren’t playing fast enough, etc.

If you can’t get them to play the way you want, something has to change. In this case, I think it’ll be the end of Vanney at TFC. That said, if it happens, I’d prefer TFC look to acquiring a decent coach who can help draw talent here, but if Curtis wants to bring in one of his own guys then I don’t see how TFC is going to recapture 2017 any time soon.

[Oldtimer]

You are giving Vanney an out with that comment, It's Vanney's tactic, always, pass pass pass, not shots, Stupid

Actually, Vanney has spoken specifically against his players doing that. He says passing should be to penetrate defences and score goals.

Is it a coaching failure that they don't do that, or is it the quality of the players? That's the question. Since it's the squad that has changed, not the coach, I think it's the latter.

[stegosaurus]

Actually, Vanney has spoken specifically against his players doing that. He says passing should be to penetrate defences and score goals.

Is it a coaching failure that they don't do that, or is it the quality of the players? That's the question. Since it's the squad that has changed, not the coach, I think it's the latter.

This lends credence to the idea that the players may have been self-coaching or had more input into how we were playing before, kind of like how tabloids think Messi dictates squad selection at Barça or Argentina.

This probably goes along with clashing with players like VdW or Seba dictating play, as well as a reliance on players he trusts and who work hard but aren’t exactly game changers.

It’s good to have passionate players too, but the amount of times their passion has boiled over in frustration makes it seem like some members of the squad have discipline issues.

[C.Ronaldo]

I can't believe he earns anything at all.

[flambe]

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

[BakaGaijin]

worst player ive ever seen play for tfc.

Nah....Andy Welsh

[stegosaurus]

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

If only Boyd ended up getting caught in the carpet coming out of the tunnel and they just left him there (preferably permanently).

[flambe]

If only Boyd ended up getting caught in the carpet coming out of the tunnel and they just left him there (preferably permanently).

One can wish.....

[noimpactinmtl]

This lends credence to the idea that the players may have been self-coaching or had more input into how we were playing before, kind of like how tabloids think Messi dictates squad selection at Barça or Argentina.

This probably goes along with clashing with players like VdW or Seba dictating play, as well as a reliance on players he trusts and who work hard but aren’t exactly game changers.

It’s good to have passionate players too, but the amount of times their passion has boiled over in frustration makes it seem like some members of the squad have discipline issues.

In Giovinco’s case, he came through the Juventus system. Vanney, ever the “student of the game”, is always open to suggestions.

VdW’s clash has more to do with his work ethic and lacklustre attitude, dangerous traits for a fullback.

There’s nothing wrong with a coach accepting input and suggestions from players. It shows humility and a willingness to learn. The coach’s job is to decide whether the suggestions help the team or not.

[James17930]

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

I wasn't able to watch the game, and this was my first thought too when I watched them. Must have been brutal to sit through.

[stegosaurus]

In Giovinco’s case, he came through the Juventus system. Vanney, ever the “student of the game”, is always open to suggestions.

VdW’s clash has more to do with his work ethic and lacklustre attitude, dangerous traits for a fullback.

There’s nothing wrong with a coach accepting input and suggestions from players. It shows humility and a willingness to learn. The coach’s job is to decide whether the suggestions help the team or not.

No one said there was an issue with a coach taking input from players.

When the coach mentions on multiple occasions that the players aren’t doing what they’ve been told there’s obviously an issue.

I love watching the lads engage in a leisurely kick about while the other team bunkers waiting for a mistake to put us in a dangerous position while half our shots were made by Delgado (Delgado had more shots than the following players combined: Boyd, Jozy, Pozo, and Hamilton).

I like Vanney about as much as anyone on this board, but this team has some sort of intrinsic issue that needs to be solved.

[C.Ronaldo]

If we can get Delgado shooting, we can get anyone shooting

[Derko]

Nah....Andy Welsh

At least Andy Welsh was a true winger, and scored a goal for TFC

[OgtheDim]

You are giving Vanney an out with that comment, It's Vanney's tactic, always, pass pass pass, not shots, Stupid
False. I get people don't like the product right now but this is false.

He has consistently told the media about the team not being decisive enough in the final third.

He has talked about the team passing aimlessly from side to side.

He talked about the team not making incisive runs & not recognized the opportunities to do so.


The aimless back passing is a product of timidity in some players &, in my mind, an overreliance on Bradley as the playmaker. Guys don't try the incisive pass enough. In my mind, Delgado & Auro are the worst at this.

[Derko]

False. I get people don't like the product right now but this is false.

He has consistently told the media about the team not being decisive enough in the final third.

He has talked about the team passing aimlessly from side to side.

He talked about the team not making incisive runs & not recognized the opportunities to do so.


The aimless back passing is a product of timidity in some players &, in my mind, an overreliance on Bradley as the playmaker. Guys don't try the incisive pass enough. In my mind, Delgado & Auro are the worst at this.

I guess you may be right to a degree, it is just frustrating to see the tactic on the field to always recycle the ball, It has only come out from Vanney now that the players are not playing the way he wants them to, what about last year, it was the same recycling of the ball and then losing possession. It also seems like we are afraid or don't have the confidence to take a strike at net, you have to shoot to score, and the opposition defenders and goalkeeper aren't going to move out of the way to tap it in. Just random thoughts about 90% of TFC games these days

[Auzzy]

I guess you may be right to a degree, it is just frustrating to see the tactic on the field to always recycle the ball, It has only come out from Vanney now that the players are not playing the way he wants them to, what about last year, it was the same recycling of the ball and then losing possession. It also seems like we are afraid or don't have the confidence to take a strike at net, you have to shoot to score, and the opposition defenders and goalkeeper aren't going to move out of the way to tap it in. Just random thoughts about 90% of TFC games these days

I have actually seen/heard this from Vanney off & on much longer, and it has worried me in the past as well. I remember during the stretch a few years ago, when TFC kept dropping points after the other team went down a man (or two). And the team wasn't always going for the jugular in other games as well. A couple of times I heard Vanney say things during pre-game or half-time interviews, about how the team needed to play or change. (In fact, there were cases where folks on this forum were defending the team against complaints here on the forum, when people were actually posting things similar to what Vanney was saying.)

But immediately after these interviews, the team would often not execute what Vanney was suggesting. I think that's on both the players and the coach. Vanney has improved in a number of ways since then, especially when he has good players available. But when things aren't going well, he still seems to be lacking as a motivator and/or disciplinarian.

[ag futbol]

False. I get people don't like the product right now but this is false.

He has consistently told the media about the team not being decisive enough in the final third.

He has talked about the team passing aimlessly from side to side.

He talked about the team not making incisive runs & not recognized the opportunities to do so.


The aimless back passing is a product of timidity in some players &, in my mind, an overreliance on Bradley as the playmaker. Guys don't try the incisive pass enough. In my mind, Delgado & Auro are the worst at this.
This is crap. While dealt a rough hand in terms of available players (get off your ass Curtis), Vanney this year is failing tactically and as a motivator of people.

What Vanney asks of his players does not match the capabilities of the players. Why are we playing this broad, expansive style when our CB's are a sore point? Why do we ask backup strikers that need help to play up top by themselves? Selection is somewhat baffling too. If playing everything through Bradley is a problem, why didn't they consider introducing Fraser earlier? He can clearly be a second pivot capable of moving the ball. Why did it take a massive unavailability of players to get Laryea a shot in a wide role? It's obvious he has the pace to play there and given his greenness defensively it's a more sensical choice than fullback. We have also been crying out for wingers. Was that not an obvious solution to a problem that should have been explored earlier? This is classic Vanney. Problems are thought of a conceptual as opposed to in a practical way. If the exact tool he needs isn't in his cupboard, the problem to him is that he doesn't have the tools, not that he needs to find a way to work with what he has.


Now let's rewind to the start of the season. This team started punching way above its weight given what we saw at the end of 2018. It somehow found ways to put up points despite the loss of 2 of our best players plus the short term unavailability of Altidore. Management should be pretty grateful for that because, as we can clearly see over a longer period of time, these players can't sustain that level of performance with regularity. Now the wind starts blowing in the other direction and the coach trots out in front of the press and drops "we talked about X". Basically, what this says is, "I'm blameless here, my players can't do a job". It's very thinly veiled to the point of being obvious. If i'm one of the guys on this team that doesn't normally start and that's what I hear from the coach, I'm completely demotivated. If I play better than expected it will quickly be forgotten and if i play worse than expected I'll go under the bus. And on top of that, I don't see any inkling of thought from the coach that maybe when we lose he plays some role in what the results are too.

I think we are getting close to the point where a new manager makes sense. The issue is I don't partially trust the people who will be finding a new manager either.

[Oldtimer]

Vanney has improved in a number of ways since then, especially when he has good players available. But when things aren't going well, he still seems to be lacking as a motivator and/or disciplinarian.

I think you have an important point here.
He wants to be a motivational coach in style. However he has a naturally "cool" personality. Motivational coaches that do well fall into two camps:

(1) the coach you are willing to die for. This is the coach that everyone loves to play for and will do anything for. The players love him and they will give their all.

(2) the coach who terrifies you. This coach will make you run endless laps for discipline and you don't dare complain. The players are motivated to play for him because he's hard ass and they perform or else.

Vanney doesn't fit either of those styles. That's ok when he has players with experience and a professional attitude. If his team is stocked with a Bradley, a Vazquez, Jozy, Giovinco and a supporting cast like Moore and Beitashour you're fine.

If you have a lot of inexperienced players or players who don't automatically give their all he can't get them to perform.

It still comes back to Curtis, either he has to rebuild the team with the right kind of players, or he has to get a coach that works with the players we got.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Great night at Joe's, anyway.

Anybody else hear that side comment on Extratime that Vanney is expected to be the USA Coach when he's done with us? Interesting. American vs Toronto perception. Meh.

Carry on

[stegosaurus]

Great night at Joe's, anyway.

Anybody else hear that side comment on Extratime that Vanney is expected to be the USA Coach when he's done with us? Interesting. American vs Toronto perception. Meh.

Carry on

I figured something like that, especially forcing us to play with everyone on the USMNT. Good image, young, etc. and his links to MLS FO and a lot of other programs.

[OgtheDim]

I figured something like that, especially forcing us to play with everyone on the USMNT. Good image, young, etc. and his links to MLS FO and a lot of other programs.

This has been talked about before - Vanney is the likely coach in 2026. This is why I think the Vanney out talk is going nowhere as that would only happen if we don't get in the playoffs.

Which is where I remind people I think we won't make the playoffs so....yes I think it likely we have another manager next season.

[MightyDM]

This is Michael Bradley’s team. It has been since he arrived. The impression is that he is the one who cracked the whip. Not the coach. Manning’s policy of forcing DPs to play out their contract before renewal might well be having an impact here - even someone as professional and immensely hard working as Bradley isn’t immune to normal emotions and doubts - and even if he is, his command of the dressing room isn’t the same when he hasn’t been re-signed.

[BakaGaijin]

At least Andy Welsh was a true winger, and scored a goal for TFC

If I recall correctly.........you were the President of the Andy Welsh Fanboy Club! :)
Andy Welsh was not a true winger.........because he couldn't cross the ball to save his life. All he did was run aimlessly up and down the wing.

That 'goal' he scored was beauty.......he jumped up for a header and completely missed the ball, luckily, it bounced off his shoulder and into the net. Those truly were some dark times...........

[Lil'John]

I have nothing against Michael Bradley (quite the opposite), but if Liam Fraser can play like that then do we need to spend DP money on a defensive midfielder?
I actually though Delgado had a good game.

[paul-collins]

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2019-05-31-vancouver-whitecaps-fc-vs-toronto-fc/audi-index

I know there's lots of reason to be skeptical of this sort of thing, but Fraser tallied the best ranking on the field, with only Pozuelo and Delgado being close. (DeLeon got a lot of ranking in his short shift, but 75% of his points are straight out of the goal, so...) Opta lists Crepeau as Vancouver's best player on the day, which feels about right.

I'm with Lil' John, I thought Delgado wasn't bad at all (in the context of what was a pretty dreary game). I'm in no way a fan of his - I've wanted him benched for a fair bit of this season - but the last couple of games he seems to be emerging from his fog.