Ali Curtis evaluation thread

[Oldtimer]

Ali Curtis was named January 3, 2019 as GM.

Here's what he's "accomplished" so far:

1. Drafted Griffen Dorsey. Has played 0 minutes so far.

2. Re-signed Tsubasa Endoh. Has played 0 minutes so far and doesn't really address any needs.

3. Re-signed Jordan Hamilton. Fairly decent as a secondary player, not a Jozy backup.

4. Signed Noble Okello from TFC II. Has played 0 minutes so far.

5. Signed Terrence Boyd. Underwhelming in the 6 games he's played.

6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.

7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.

8. Signed Richie Laryea. Orlando cast off. Played 3 games, underwhelming player.

So in 4 months of work, when you exclude re-signing players, signing TFC II players, and players that should be credited to Manning or Vanney (or Bez in the case of Dorsey), he's managed to sign Terrence Boyd and Richie Laryea.

So tell me:

(a) Why did we sign a GM who couldn't find work anywhere else and seemed super-glad just to have a job? Couldn't we have waited and not rushed to find the first unemplyed GM who looks like a nice guy?
(b) What exactly does Curtis bring to the table? So far the deals he's initiated look like they have failed to meet the team's needs.

I doubt they are going to fire Curtis so soon, but so far he doesn't look like he's delivering what we need to have a successful team. I like his personality, but personality is not enough.

[jabbronies]

So I guess whenever a good signing is made you're just going to chalk it up to someone else's hard work? Is this a "Curtis evaluation" thread or a "Curtis hate" on thread?

Looking at all those you've listed - there is no way those were signings done in a silo. He had to have had heavy input from others to make those signings. If not, then what you are saying is this club is in complete disarray and there is a huge amount of strife between the coaching staff and the head office.

[OgtheDim]

Just to add to the assessment discussion - Curtis' face on the announcement of the GE deal but then the quote is from another person.

[Section_105]

Just to add to the assessment discussion - Curtis' face on the announcement of the GE deal but then the quote is from another person.
haha, that big sign on the NW corner was a shock. Hadn't seen anything about this. So players get clean dishes and clothes!

[notthesun]

6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.


7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.


I hate these types of rationalizations and always have. He is the GM of the team and he will have significant input on every player going in and out of the club. Regardless of the optics of a particular signing and who else may have been involved it's ultimately his job to make player personnel decisions and so he's responsible for every one of them, full stop.

Some people did the same thing with Bez and it was telling how the narrative shifted. I saw people ascribe 100% of the Defoe signing to Leiweke and then suddenly when that went south and people still had serious doubts about Bez he started being given partial credit - or blame at that point - for it. When we signed Giovinco most people saw it as another score for Leiweke, despite him having one foot out the MLSE door at that point. And again as the team improved and Bez proved his worth I saw him get more and more credit for signing Giovinco in the first place (which he deserved).

So picking and choosing signings to make Curtis look better or worse doesn't fly if you ask me. Westberg was a good addition, Pozuelo a tremendous one, he gets credit for both and he also deserves criticism for leaving us with an extremely barebones team until the summer due to waiting on his moves and some poor depth moves he has made.

I will say this, we've seen teams make awesome runs in this league spurned on by summer signings time and time again so I think Curtis can redeem himself yet this season, but there's no room for error now. He needs to make probably 3 significant signings in the summer window and he needs to hit on all 3.

[shwade]

So I guess whenever a good signing is made you're just going to chalk it up to someone else's hard work? Is this a "Curtis evaluation" thread or a "Curtis hate" on thread?

Looking at all those you've listed - there is no way those were signings done in a silo. He had to have had heavy input from others to make those signings. If not, then what you are saying is this club is in complete disarray and there is a huge amount of strife between the coaching staff and the head office.

Huh? The only player of note on that list is Pozuelo and we know that was mostly Manning. The timing of the other signings should make it clear that those were Curtis' picks.

"Whenever a good signing is made.." we can discuss who's hard work it is but we've been waiting ages for even a decent signing. I said it in the other thread but Curtis can't pull the trigger on anything or is stuck in RBNY mentality. If it comes down between Vanney and Curtis I'd rather keep Vanney. We know he can deliver when he has decent tools - Curtis isn't giving him shit. Why? Does he want Vanney out?

[Oldtimer]

I hate these types of rationalizations and always have. He is the GM of the team and he will have significant input on every player going in and out of the club. Regardless of the optics of a particular signing and who else may have been involved it's ultimately his job to make player personnel decisions and so he's responsible for every one of them, full stop.



That's how a GM should work... not sure if that has been the case so far. Maybe it's due to him needing to get up to speed...

I'm hoping he will work out and build a great team. I just haven't seen it yet.

[Oldtimer]

Curtis isn't giving him shit. Why? Does he want Vanney out?

Interesting theory. Praise Vanney as a "good coach" at the beginning, then work to undermine him so he can justify replacing him with his own guy. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened...

A good question is the nature of the conflict Curtis had with his coach at RBNY that led to his departure. Is he more Machiavellian than he appears?

[Richard]

Interesting theory. Praise Vanney as a "good coach" at the beginning, then work to undermine him so he can justify replacing him with his own guy. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened...

A good question is the nature of the conflict Curtis had with his coach at RBNY that led to his departure. Is he more Machiavellian than he appears?

Getting flashbacks to Mariner getting Iro(left footed CB) who had lead feet trying to play in Winter's 4-3-3.

[Auzzy]

Getting flashbacks to Mariner getting Iro(left footed CB) who had lead feet trying to play in Winter's 4-3-3.

There could easily be lots of flashbacks to the Mariner/Winter days; and don't forget good ole' Earl Cochrane either. Andy Iro is but one example. How about the indomitable Geovanny Caicedo? And Mariner walking through the TFC offices, crowing & high-fiving staff after Winter got canned?

I highly doubt Curtis is that Machiavellian; nor does Vanney appear to be as much of a fish out of water as Aron Winter at TFC. But I don't know details of Curtis' time at NYRB. At least he wasn't promised one job at TFC, and then assigned to a different one after an import was flown in.

[Areathrasher]

I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.

[69Chevy396]

Ali Curtis was named January 3, 2019 as GM.

Here's what he's "accomplished" so far:

1. Drafted Griffen Dorsey. Has played 0 minutes so far.

2. Re-signed Tsubasa Endoh. Has played 0 minutes so far and doesn't really address any needs.

3. Re-signed Jordan Hamilton. Fairly decent as a secondary player, not a Jozy backup.

4. Signed Noble Okello from TFC II. Has played 0 minutes so far.

5. Signed Terrence Boyd. Underwhelming in the 6 games he's played.

6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.

7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.

8. Signed Richie Laryea. Orlando cast off. Played 3 games, underwhelming player.

So in 4 months of work, when you exclude re-signing players, signing TFC II players, and players that should be credited to Manning or Vanney (or Bez in the case of Dorsey), he's managed to sign Terrence Boyd and Richie Laryea.

So tell me:

(a) Why did we sign a GM who couldn't find work anywhere else and seemed super-glad just to have a job? Couldn't we have waited and not rushed to find the first unemplyed GM who looks like a nice guy?
(b) What exactly does Curtis bring to the table? So far the deals he's initiated look like they have failed to meet the team's needs.

I doubt they are going to fire Curtis so soon, but so far he doesn't look like he's delivering what we need to have a successful team. I like his personality, but personality is not enough.

Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.

[JT Red127]

LOL thats an odd "evaluation."

[Oldtimer]

I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.

That's actually my point. What exactly is Curtis doing? I've given him Laryea as well as Boyd. Neither signing is stellar.

Here's what Bez did in his first four months:

Added:
Jackson
Gilberto
Morrow
Hamilton
De Rosario
Defoe
Bradley

Got rid of:
Thomas
Russell
Earnshaw
Braun
Koevermans
Frei
Convey

and just one month later he picked up Cesar on loan.

While not all of these were good choices (losing Frei in particular), there was a lot of work to improve the club. While our roster isn't in the same state that it was in 2013, you'd expect more work from Curtis to improve the roster. Our needs are well known.

[JT Red127]

So this is meant to be a comparison thread it seems. Funny cause people are wondering WTF Bez is doing with Cowlumbus so far. Its way too early for this stuff, give the guy the summer transfer window at the very least before making conclusions i say.

[shwade]

Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.

The golden age of TFC.

[stegosaurus]

I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.

Pozo isn’t really a Curtis signing. He was a player they’ve wanted here since before Curtis arrived.

[Areathrasher]

Pozo isn’t really a Curtis signing. He was a player they’ve wanted here since before Curtis arrived.

I'm not classing him as a Curtis signing. The point is Boyd is the only one that looks like a pure Curtis move.

Layrea was a flyer after Vanney had a look at him in camp. Curtis likely just pushed the paper on that one. The rest of them Vanney had pre-existing knowledge or relationships with them.

[Ultra & Proud]

For now I am not counting anything for or against Curtis. He came in cold, late on in the window and we don't know exactly what went down with certain deals.

This summer is big test #1 and it's an easier window to work in. He screws this one up and then I guess we're doing the NYRB thing and building from academy up.

[Red4ever]

Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.

Wrong Ricketts?

[Areathrasher]

That's actually my point. What exactly is Curtis doing? I've given him Laryea as well as Boyd. Neither signing is stellar.

Here's what Bez did in his first four months:

Added:
Jackson
Gilberto
Morrow
Hamilton
De Rosario
Defoe
Bradley

Got rid of:
Thomas
Russell
Earnshaw
Braun
Koevermans
Frei
Convey

and just one month later he picked up Cesar on loan.

While not all of these were good choices (losing Frei in particular), there was a lot of work to improve the club. While our roster isn't in the same state that it was in 2013, you'd expect more work from Curtis to improve the roster. Our needs are well known.

Nelsen and Leiwekie had a lot of involvement in those. So not sure it's a like for like comparison.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The golden age of TFC.

of MLSE Real Estate deals. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think Atlanta's coach has something to say about this thread.

[stegosaurus]

I think Atlanta's coach has something to say about this thread.

“Please, stop sending me South Americans! They don’t even speak swamp German!”

[ensco]

It's not fair to do a list for Curtis, given the pre-existing situation with Manning and Vanney.

Even Boyd - he was part of the USMNT setup for years, it's not like anyone “discovered” him.

When we trade for or sign and ex NYRB player, we'll know it was Curtis.

There isn’t much of a point in having a separate Curtis thread, I see the conversation around him and Manning as identical. I always thought same thing about Bez btw... until Manning gave him rope in 2018, which didn’t go well

The only thing I suspect, but am not totally sure about, is that Curtis bungled the tactics and diligence on Pozo's contract situation with Genk, which cost TFC a bunch of heartache and a couple of million dollars. But he and Manning did land a fine player there.

[stegosaurus]

It's not fair to do a list for Curtis, given the pre-existing situation with Manning and Vanney.

Even Boyd - he was part of the USMNT setup for years, it's not like anyone “discovered” him.

When we trade for or sign and ex NYRB player, we'll know it was Curtis.

There isn’t much of a point in having a separate Curtis thread, I see the conversation around him and Manning as identical. I always thought same thing about Bez btw... until Manning gave him rope in 2018, which didn’t go well

The only thing I suspect, but am not totally sure about, is that Curtis bungled the tactics and diligence on Pozo's contract situation with Genk, which cost TFC a bunch of heartache and a couple of million dollars.

Can we have Adams then?

[ensco]

Can we have Adams then?

How about Miazga?

[stegosaurus]

How about Miazga?

Porque no los dos?

[sn0re]

Nelsen and Leiwekie had a lot of involvement in those. So not sure it's a like for like comparison.

Was O'dea around during when Bez was hired?

[ensco]

Porque no los dos?

Need two number one allocation slots.

It's interesting. What if the sale by NYRB to Leipzig was just an accounting fiction, and TFC bid $5M for Adams this summer. Would Roten Bullen HQ take that?

I would love to see the looks on NYRB supporters if we did that.

[Areathrasher]

Need two number one allocation slots.

It's interesting. What if the sale by NYRB to Leipzig was just an accounting fiction, and TFC bid $5M for Adams this summer. Would Roten Bullen HQ take that?

I would love to see the looks on NYRB supporters if we did that.

Supposedly there are premier league clubs interested in him and willing to pay 25M for him, so no.

[stegosaurus]

Supposedly there are premier league clubs interested in him and willing to pay 25M for him, so no.

Yeah, there’s no way we’d get Adams. He’s not coming back to MLS unless he’s broken or old.

[jabbronies]

Judge Curtis after his second transfer window. The first he was getting his feet wet and trying to land Poz. Add to the fact after the Poz deal, the timing was shit to try and get players in. If he doesn't land quality needs in the second window, roast away.

[stegosaurus]

Judge Curtis after his second transfer window. The first he was getting his feet wet and trying to land Poz. Add to the fact after the Poz deal, the timing was shit to try and get players in. If he doesn't land quality needs in the second window, roast away.

This makes it sound like Curtis had never been a GM before, that Pozo wasn’t a primary target even before he came in, and that the rest of the FO was completely incompetent when they previously weren’t.

Saying give him a chance because they were blindsided by numerous players leaving at the same time and they didn’t expect it is a different story (but still shows that the FO is inept).

[glaze]

Toronto will not support a rebuild.
Look at the Jays crowds this year.
He needs to make a move to make this team remain competitive this season and beyond.

[ensco]

I think everyone knew we weren’t as good as our record, and we were really a 500 team- I am actually not that distressed.

I am OK with the summer strategy, I have always felt like it actually makes the most sense (the market is clearly better then). Even if it's the game plan because of incompetence.

My main concern is that we don’t have any reason to have faith in Curtis, and I think Manning needs to return 100% to TFC. To be fair I actually don’t understand Manning's division of responsibilities with Curtis right now, none of us do... but whatever it is, Manning needs to be calling all the shots right now. Curtis hasn't earned any independence.

Manning seems a bit asleep at the switch here. If if we have two straight years of non playoff flameouts, with this salary level, all of Manning, Curtis and Vanney could go.

[Ultra & Proud]

Manning seems a bit asleep at the switch here. If if we have two straight years of non playoff flameouts, with this salary level, all of Manning, Curtis and Vanney could go.
At this point I would be surprised if Vanney made it to the summer window. I would expect Curtis to want his own guy.

[Richard]

At this point I would be surprised if Vanney made it to the summer window. I would expect Curtis to want his own guy.

If anyone needs to go it's Curtis. Vanney asks for the players and Curtis needs to sign them.

When Bez left he did not take the entire scouting book with him, the club had targets they wanted to acquire when he was here and should have continued to pursue them and get them signed when Curtis got here.

Vanney wanted reinforcements at the start of the year and it's a failure on Curtis's part to not be able to sign Vanney's targets.

[stegosaurus]

I think everyone knew we weren’t as good as our record, and we were really a 500 team- I am actually not that distressed.

I am OK with the summer strategy, I have always felt like it actually makes the most sense (the market is clearly better then). Even if it's the game plan because of incompetence.

My main concern is that we don’t have any reason to have faith in Curtis, and I think Manning needs to return 100% to TFC. To be fair I actually don’t understand Manning's division of responsibilities with Curtis right now, none of us do... but whatever it is, Manning needs to be calling all the shots right now. Curtis hasn't earned any independence.

Manning seems a bit asleep at the switch here. If if we have two straight years of non playoff flameouts, with this salary level, all of Manning, Curtis and Vanney could go.

Likewise: I’m fine with waiting until the summer window to acquire players, but if they’re just the signings they’ve been pursuing since the winter window it will be a bit disappointing.

The thing I don’t understand is maintaining radio silence while only breaking it to make things up or deny rumors. The other thing is that they didn’t need to make brilliant signings; they needed some depth players who are actually decent too. Ciman was a logical signing, Deleon makes sense too, but there are still some pretty big holes to fill.

If we’re going to sign players >30 just bring in Dani Alves.

[Ultra & Proud]

If anyone needs to go it's Curtis. Vanney asks for the players and Curtis needs to sign them.

When Bez left he did not take the entire scouting book with him, the club had targets they wanted to acquire when he was here and should have continued to pursue them and get them signed when Curtis got here.

Vanney wanted reinforcements at the start of the year and it's a failure on Curtis's part to not be able to sign Vanney's targets.
I don't see that happening though plus Vanney hasn't been able to correct the issues from last season.

With what we've see so far with our style of play and how the players are approaching each match does anyone think a TAM winger and a CB would really change anything? Would one or two players make us more dynamic, faster as team, more direct? I think a very good wide player could get us some more goals but the problems will still be there. I just think we need some rotation in the roster. It's stagnant. We need some new faces with new ideas.

And by that last line I mean new players in as well as current players out. Not just signing guys. We need some addition by subtraction.

[Oldtimer]

Manning seems a bit asleep at the switch here.

Is anyone surprised? Argos were always going to be the priority once they were added to Manning's duties. They are a more important media property, at least in the large Boomer demographic.

TFC is once again the poor cousin to MLSE's more valuable properties, just like prior to Tim L.

Hopefully Curtis (or his replacement) will be able to manage without Manning being very involved, although Curtis has shown no sign of it so far.

[MightyDM]

I don't see that happening though plus Vanney hasn't been able to correct the issues from last season.

With what we've see so far with our style of play and how the players are approaching each match does anyone think a TAM winger and a CB would really change anything? Would one or two players make us more dynamic, faster as team, more direct? I think a very good wide player could get us some more goals but the problems will still be there. I just think we need some rotation in the roster. It's stagnant. We need some new faces with new ideas.

And by that last line I mean new players in as well as current players out. Not just signing guys. We need some addition by subtraction.

A RB and a winger will allow our players to play to their strengths. Curtis publicly at least doesn’t seem to recognize where our weaknesses and strengths are and what is needed to improve the roster. And I guess I’m still stuck at “we are taking another run at the cup this year, we just need a couple more pieces” pre VV and Seba going and VdW implosion and “we are bringing in one for sure hopefully two in the next week or two” in the trade window. Everyone is saying summer window is better but that’s not what we were told was the strategy. Twice.

[Mikmacdo]

Is anyone surprised? Argos were always going to be the priority once they were added to Manning's duties. They are a more important media property, at least in the large Boomer demographic.

TFC is once again the poor cousin to MLSE's more valuable properties, just like prior to Tim L.

Hopefully Curtis (or his replacement) will be able to manage without Manning being very involved, although Curtis has shown no sign of it so far.
Manning doesn’t do much for the Argos, Jim Popp is making all the decisions over there.

I blame Vanney for some of the bad decisions more so than Curtis who is too new to really blame.

Zavaleta shouldn’t be on the roster. He stuck with Bono for far too long. Delgado is not a starter on a good MLS team. There are a few Canadians who could easily do more than Boyd and cost less out there. Drafting Griffin Dorsey from Indiana was an obvious Vanney move, they could have traded Buchanan a Canadian who has at least done something this year or Montgomery a good young CB prospect. Derek Cornelius would have been a good signing over Ciman but they let Vancouver get him. Max Crepeau has been really good for Vancouver but we got Westburg who isn’t awful but hes older and probably not as good as Max. Loaning Telfer was dumb when you have no speed on the wing.

[Mikmacdo]

A RB and a winger will allow our player to play to their strengths. Curtis publicly at least doesn’t seem to recognize where at weaknesses and strengths are and what is needed to improve the roster. And I guess I’m still stuck at “we are taking another run at the cup this year, we just need a couple more pieces” pre VV and Seba going and VdW implosion and “we are bringing in one for sure hopefully two in the next week or two” in the trade window. Everyone is saying summer window is better but that’s not what we were told was the strategy. Twice.They need two wingers or a winger and a guy who could play as a striker sometimes when Jozy is out. Janson actually fits that but there has to be other guys who were available like Janson but affordable.

[Initial B]

The maxim is you give a coach 3 transfer windows to see what kind of team he can put together. I think the same rubric should be applied to GMs. I'm willing to wait until the beginning of next season before I start making judgements.

[jabbronies]

This makes it sound like Curtis had never been a GM before, that Pozo wasn’t a primary target even before he came in, and that the rest of the FO was completely incompetent when they previously weren’t.
Saying give him a chance because they were blindsided by numerous players leaving at the same time and they didn’t expect it is a different story (but still shows that the FO is inept).

It's a number of things - this isn't a black and white situation like you seem to want to make it. it's about all the other shit as well:
Getting his feet wet means:
- Coming into a new club and really looking at all the assets the clubs has - Not just the first team, but the academy as well.
- Getting to know the coaching staff - not just the first team - and what they think of the assets they have and where their needs are and how to attain them.
- Getting familiar with the process of the club.
- Add to that he had to deal with a draft within a week of being on the job

He wasn't blindsided by anything. He just came into a situation that would've been handled better if the CLUB wasn't in a transitioning phase. This all to me is a case of people just not looking at the bigger picture and factoring everything happening with the club right now.

As I said, give the guy/club the benefit of the doubt.
They said teams abroad didn't want to part with assets so close to the deadline and that they could get those assets during the second window because contracts were expiring. Doesn't sound far fetched to me. But as I said, they'll need to make those signings once the window opens.

[ag futbol]

I think everyone knew we weren’t as good as our record, and we were really a 500 team- I am actually not that distressed.

I’m okay if we are 500 this year but what’s the plan to get better and why haven’t we been faster to solve the issues?

The problems are occurring at twice the rate it takes the front office to solve them. We didn’t address our CB issue properly and have no FW, then VV and Gio leave. Marky looks like he’s in a permanent slump and Bradley occasionally looks dicey. RB has never really be adequately addressed post Beitashour.

The only solution to all of this so far has been Pozuelo. Well great, but we can’t live on that alone. Montreal has been shit for a long time with Piatti on their roster so let’s not assume just because we have a fine player everything else will work out.

[Blindside16]

I would be less frustrated with Curtis and Manning if I didn't have to listen to " a signing within the next 2 weeks" for 3 months. I am willing to give him the secondary window before I start calling for his head. Another noteable signing that slipped through the cracks was the money we are wasting on Ciman

[Oldtimer]

If picking up Boyd for Ricketts is what we're going to be seeing from Curtis, this team is going to become a bottom feeder. Boyd can't even play at this level. One of the worst player decisions since Preki brought in his squad of "D team" eastern European cast offs or Mariner bringing in Freddy Hall.

[stegosaurus]

If picking up Boyd for Ricketts is what we're going to be seeing from Curtis, this team is going to become a bottom feeder. Boyd can't even play at this level. One of the worst player decisions since Preki brought in his squad of "D team" eastern European cast offs or Mariner bringing in Freddy Hall.

Just send him to TFC2 and see if he’s even capable of scoring at that level. Not sure he is.

[portu]

If anyone needs to go it's Curtis. Vanney asks for the players and Curtis needs to sign them.

When Bez left he did not take the entire scouting book with him, the club had targets they wanted to acquire when he was here and should have continued to pursue them and get them signed when Curtis got here.

Vanney wanted reinforcements at the start of the year and it's a failure on Curtis's part to not be able to sign Vanney's targets.

No way. This squad is better than performances indicate. If Vanney can't produce with this squad then he needs to go. At the same time Ali needs to bring the players in necessary to making us a contender. If he can't do that then we have an issue. I give Curtis till the end of the summer window. Vanney keeps this up and he won't last to the beginning of that window.

[Oldtimer]

Just send him to TFC2 and see if he’s even capable of scoring at that level. Not sure he is.

Waste of $200+k.

[Oldtimer]

No way. This squad is better than performances indicate.

I'm pretty sure Boyd's performance matched his limited skill set. That's not just coaching.

Where Vanney's limitation is is being willing to adjust his tactics to a mediocre squad. However it's on Curtis that we don't have any decent signings last window, apart from Pozuelo.

[stegosaurus]

Waste of $200+k.

Did someone release what he was on? I must have missed it; I just assumed it was an MLS minimum.

If he’s making $200+k then it’s even more egregious than Nephew making whatever he makes this year.

How hard could it be to find a player who has at least played in the past few years and scored a couple of goals? Ricketts was never a world class player but he’s a known quantity even if he has slowed down. He’s scored 7 goals in Lithuania and I’m not even sure Boyd could accomplish that at this point.

[Areathrasher]

The salary figures havent been released yet

[Oldtimer]

Did someone release what he was on? I must have missed it; I just assumed it was an MLS minimum.

If he’s making $200+k then it’s even more egregious than Nephew making whatever he makes this year.




The salary figures havent been released yet

The union hasn't released salaries, but the MLS website released his salary.


https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/02/05/official-toronto-fc-sign-us-striker-terrence-boyd

So yes, he's making wayyy too much money.

[stegosaurus]

The union hasn't released salaries, but the MLS website released his salary.


https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/02/05/official-toronto-fc-sign-us-striker-terrence-boyd

So yes, he's making wayyy too much money.

That’s worse than this CL final.

[FootBallAZ]

I thought Boyd was Bez's move.

[Mikmacdo]

The union hasn't released salaries, but the MLS website released his salary.


https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/02/05/official-toronto-fc-sign-us-striker-terrence-boyd

So yes, he's making wayyy too much money.

At least its just a one year deal.

[Oldtimer]

I thought Boyd was Bez's move.

Curtis signed Boyd in February, Bez left the previous December.

[mauser09]

The union hasn't released salaries, but the MLS website released his salary.


https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/02/05/official-toronto-fc-sign-us-striker-terrence-boyd

So yes, he's making wayyy too much money.

Wow, according to the article he "is capable of scoring goals in MLS". Interesting.

[TFC07]

It's simple: if he fails to bring in players then he should be let go. To be honest, both coaching staff and FO need to be let go if TFC fail to make it to the playoffs this year. We need people running this team that have high standards which I personally don't believe current FO has based on their history. I believe Giovinco and Van der Wiel when they said TFC isn't serious of winning anymore. This might explain why some players look disinterested (like Bradley) this year.

Amount of money and resources invested in this club should make TFC a powerhouse in this league so there's no excuses of being losing team. I think MLSE needs to get more involved here to keep TFC FO on check.

[MightyDM]

It's simple: if he fails to bring in players then he should be let go. To be honest, both coaching staff and FO need to be let go if TFC fail to make it to the playoffs this year. We need people running this team that have high standards which I personally don't believe current FO has based on their history. I believe Giovinco and Van der Wiel when they said TFC isn't serious of winning anymore. This might explain why some players look disinterested (like Bradley) this year.

Amount of money and resources invested in this club should make TFC a powerhouse in this league so there's no excuses of being losing team. I think MLSE needs to get more involved here to keep TFC FO on check.

It’s a test of Manning, not Curtis. On his watch we have lost at least the following players without replacing them:

Beitashour
Giovinco
Edwards
Hasler
Ricketts
Cheyrou

And allowed the following players to age without replacing them:

Morrow
Moor

And brought in the following players who didn’t work or haven’t yet worked:

Spencer
Boyd
Bakero
VdW
Ciman

And I would add Auro to that as he is flawed defensively


And let Zavaleta regress and Delgado stagnate.

Against that:

Poz
DeLeon
Laryea
Westberg


Only Osorio and Chapman have really progressed in the past two years, perhaps Akinola

[OgtheDim]

This idea that this admin doesn't care to win falls at one particular hurdle from this spring - the Pozuelo "we are going to get him now" saga.

[MightyDM]

This idea that this admin doesn't care to win falls at one particular hurdle from this spring - the Pozuelo "we are going to get him now" saga.

I agree that they aren’t trying not to win. The bigger questions are judgment and competence. Getting basic building blocks wrong. But it’s also pretty clear that they are not all in to win either.

[Oldtimer]

I'd argue that Boyd was intended to be an upgrade to Ricketts. It's pretty obvious that has not turned out to be the case. Boyd is far worse a signing than VdW.

[MightyDM]

I'd argue that Boyd was intended to be an upgrade to Ricketts. It's pretty obvious that has not turned out to be the case. Boyd is far worse a signing than VdW.

Let’s play that out a bit and assume they were fairly certain about Boyd before letting Ricketts go. That betrays both a lack of judgment and a USMNT bias as some have suggested - I think they call it confirmation bias. That would be in Bez / Manning.

Our success with Morrow Beita Moor Seba Bradley and VV seems to have gone to managements head a bit. Too confident in their judgment. But they are like players; only as good as their last game.

[OgtheDim]

VDW was a WAY worse signing then Boyd is:


Compare


Not good enough
Works hard
Works in practice
No distraction


vs.

Not good enough
Doesn't work hard in games
Doesn't work hard in practice
Distraction within the team
Paid a HECK of a lot more


***************

I get a lot of people really dig on the "he told off the manager I can't stand" thing but looking back on him - VDW was crap. Most of us came to that conclusion by September of last year.

[Kamp Berg]

VDW was a WAY worse signing then Boyd is:


Compare


Not good enough
Works hard
Works in practice
No distraction


vs.

Not good enough
Doesn't work hard in games
Doesn't work hard in practice
Distraction within the team
Paid a HECK of a lot more


***************

I don't get this "VDW was a good player" revisionism. I get a lot of people really dig on the "he told off the manager I can't stand" thing but looking back on him - VDW was crap.

VDW was good, in 2010.

[stegosaurus]

VDW was a WAY worse signing then Boyd is:


Compare


Not good enough
Works hard
Works in practice
No distraction


vs.

Not good enough
Doesn't work hard in games
Doesn't work hard in practice
Distraction within the team
Paid a HECK of a lot more


***************

I get a lot of people really dig on the "he told off the manager I can't stand" thing but looking back on him - VDW was crap. Most of us came to that conclusion by September of last year.

Considering VdW wasn’t abjectly awful here, I’d say that’s a bit inaccurate.

He had assists, played out of position numerous times due to injuries to other members of the squad, had some good games, and overall wasn’t awful. Did he have some bad games? Sure. Some good ones? Yep.

Was he worth his salary here? Nope. Was he lazy? Confrontational? Bad attitude? Yep, but everyone already knew that before he arrived.

So, the upside for Boyd is that he’s cheap and not a jerk. The downside is that he’s inept and useless.

The upside for VdW is that he knows what shape a football is (at the very least).

[portu]

Considering VdW wasn’t abjectly awful here, I’d say that’s a bit inaccurate.

He had assists, played out of position numerous times due to injuries to other members of the squad, had some good games, and overall wasn’t awful. Did he have some bad games? Sure. Some good ones? Yep.

Was he worth his salary here? Nope. Was he lazy? Confrontational? Bad attitude? Yep, but everyone already knew that before he arrived.

So, the upside for Boyd is that he’s cheap and not a jerk. The downside is that he’s inept and useless.

The upside for VdW is that he knows what shape a football is (at the very least).

This is the most accurate VdW assessment I've seen. I don't know why so many people thought he was so obviously awful.

[Ultra & Proud]

This is the most accurate VdW assessment I've seen. I don't know why so many people thought he was so obviously awful.
He wasn't good and his side was responsible for a bulk of the goals against.

[ag futbol]

He wasn't good and his side was responsible for a bulk of the goals against.
Agreed. He clearly has the ability to be good but in terms of willingness? He was out for a walk in the park.

[Ultra & Proud]

Agreed. He clearly has the ability to be good but in terms of willingness? He was out for a walk in the park.
Totally. He could have been one of the best defenders in MLS but in actuality he was around Zavaleta level or worse because he was off in dream land for most of the matches. People on here complain a lot about Ciman getting caught up field out of position or Auro not defending the cross. Go re-watch last season and see what VDW did.

[stegosaurus]

He wasn't good and his side was responsible for a bulk of the goals against.

I don’t think he was “good,” he just wasn’t terrible or Boyd-tier.

He also wasn’t solely responsible for our defensive issues last season (not even close), and I would like to see the statistic on the bulk of goals caused by him specifically while placing his natural position and not playing on the left or as a CB in the back 2-3.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don’t think he was “good,” he just wasn’t terrible or Boyd-tier.

Maybe not Boyd-tier, more like Hagglund-tier but getting paid Vasquez-tier. All the while being on a Gerba level laziness tier.

[jloome]

Curtis initially applied for the job in NY with a 300-page plan he insisted was required to reshape the club and was laughed out of the place. He then came back with more humble expectations and eventually won them over, so he worked his way into the gig over time, which can be telling. But there are some N Y fans who attribute their youth advancement to him forcing their use. But once they decided Jesse Marsch was their guy, he and Curtis couldn’t stand each other and it quickly became a “him or me” scenario.

So there was quite a bit of drama there over him, some who thought he was a Svengali genius. But Marschs contingent thought he was an idiot, apparently.

Personally I think it’s too early to tell. But as much as I worry about Vanney and motivation and tactical flexibility I still respect what I know and have seen of him more, so far.

[Ultra & Proud]

The NYRB switch from shite to good was under Curtis' watch though. If he's getting blamed for us being shit while only being here 6 months then he has to get some credit for that.

[Areathrasher]

Curtis initially applied for the job in NY with a 300-page plan he insisted was required to reshape the club and was laughed out of the place. He then came back with more humble expectations and eventually won them over, so he worked his way into the gig over time, which can be telling. But there are some N Y fans who attribute their youth advancement to him forcing their use. But once they decided Jesse Marsch was their guy, he and Curtis couldn’t stand each other and it quickly became a “him or me” scenario.

So there was quite a bit of drama there over him, some who thought he was a Svengali genius. But Marschs contingent thought he was an idiot, apparently.

Personally I think it’s too early to tell. But as much as I worry about Vanney and motivation and tactical flexibility I still respect what I know and have seen of him more, so far.

I've never heard of this version and runs counter to anything published I read around that time. Got a source for it?

[jloome]

I've never heard of this version and runs counter to anything published I read around that time. Got a source for it?

Just Red Bulls fans chattering at the time, some claiming inside info. I believe SBI also reported On Msrsch and him bejng unable to work together. It’s based in NY.

EDIT https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/sports/soccer

the times reported on the split with Marsch and Curtis being shut out of decisions.

I did find a piece However about the big plan and it was apparently not Curtis’ but RB Salzburg’s, so that other part sounds untrue.

[Areathrasher]

Just Red Bulls fans chattering at the time, some claiming inside info. I believe SBI also reported On Msrsch and him bejng unable to work together. It’s based in NY.

EDIT https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/sports/soccer

the times reported on the split with Marsch and Curtis being shut out of decisions.

I did find a piece However about the big plan and it was apparently not Curtis’ but RB Salzburg’s, so that other part sounds untrue.

I'm only questioning the being laughed out the door over the 300 page thing. It was widely reported that was what got him the gig. He even went so far to pose with it for a SI feature.

[jloome]

I'm only questioning the being laughed out the door over the 300 page thing. It was widely reported that was what got him the gig. He even went so far to pose with it for a SI feature.

The piece I found today was a followup that said the long-term plan was given to them by Red Bull Salzburg and was already being succesfully implemented there. They had Curtis do it in NY because he knew the ins and outs of the league. But once it was in place, his further decisions were at odds with what Marsch wanted.

[Oldtimer]

The piece I found today was a followup that said the long-term plan was given to them by Red Bull Salzburg and was already being succesfully implemented there. They had Curtis do it in NY because he knew the ins and outs of the league. But once it was in place, his further decisions were at odds with what Marsch wanted.

So was the 300 page thing from RB Salzburg? Or was it something that Curtis did that was totally ignored?

[Oldtimer]

It’s a test of Manning, not Curtis. On his watch we have lost at least the following players without replacing them:

Beitashour
Giovinco
Edwards
Hasler
Ricketts
Cheyrou

And allowed the following players to age without replacing them:

Morrow
Moor

And brought in the following players who didn’t work or haven’t yet worked:

Spencer
Boyd
Bakero
VdW
Ciman

And I would add Auro to that as he is flawed defensively


And let Zavaleta regress and Delgado stagnate.

Against that:

Poz
DeLeon
Laryea
Westberg


Only Osorio and Chapman have really progressed in the past two years, perhaps Akinola

Laryea has turned out to be an OK signing, which I didn't expect, as has DeLeon. Westberg I credit to Vanney.


I'm still not sure what positives Curtis brings to the table.

[Mikmacdo]

It’s a test of Manning, not Curtis. On his watch we have lost at least the following players without replacing them:

Beitashour
Giovinco
Edwards
Hasler
Ricketts
Cheyrou

And allowed the following players to age without replacing them:

Morrow
Moor

And brought in the following players who didn’t work or haven’t yet worked:

Spencer
Boyd
Bakero
VdW
Ciman

And I would add Auro to that as he is flawed defensively


And let Zavaleta regress and Delgado stagnate.

Against that:

Poz
DeLeon
Laryea
Westberg


Only Osorio and Chapman have really progressed in the past two years, perhaps AkinolaAuro is pretty good for an MLS RB. Last game i thought he was one of the best players on the field and had to play both RB and LB. He defended well and might be the best crosser not he team.

[stevep]

No comment till after Saturday.
No comment till I see the two new guys

[Blindside16]

I don't trust Curtis's ninja turtle face at all. Both he and manning rub me the wrong way

[Ultra & Proud]

The Mullins for Hamilton was a good deal. The TAM guys are impossible to judge unless they actually get some time in MLS play. If the current trend of them sitting on the bench or pressbox continues then either Curtis can't judge talent in Vanney's eyes or Vanney is making a power play vs. Curtis.

Until we see either Gallardo or Benezet in a match then we can't say whether Curtis blew these two signings or if there's more going on here behind the scenes.

[MightyDM]

It’s a test of Manning, not Curtis. On his watch we have lost at least the following players without replacing them:

Beitashour
Giovinco
Edwards
Hasler
Ricketts
Cheyrou

And allowed the following players to age without replacing them:

Morrow
Moor

And brought in the following players who didn’t work or haven’t yet worked:

Spencer
Boyd
Bakero
VdW
Ciman

And I would add Auro to that as he is flawed defensively


And let Zavaleta regress and Delgado stagnate.

Against that are successful incoming players:

Poz
DeLeon
Laryea
Westberg


Only Osorio and Chapman have really progressed in the past two years, perhaps Akinola

I edited for clarity since I have been quoted - the last category is successful incoming players. I’d probably add Mullins now too.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

No comment till after Saturday.
No comment till I see the two new guys

Kinda in line with this. Still too soon to say imo

[portu]

No comment till after Saturday.
No comment till I see the two new guys

And if you dont see them on Saturday

[Ultra & Proud]

And if you dont see them on Saturday

Every match our attack stagnates and we don't use either of them adds to my Vanney out sentiment.

[stevep]

And if you dont see them on Saturday

I will just shake my head in total bewilderment as to wtf is going on??

[Oldtimer]

And if you dont see them on Saturday

I would give Vanney the benefit of the doubt and think that Curtis brought in poor choices.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I would give Vanney the benefit of the doubt and think that Curtis brought in poor choices.


I dunno man, just cuz Vanney has been suss with line ups, subs and tactics before Curtis was around. Definitely furthers my Vanney out sentiments but also has me questioning what's going on w the FO.

[shwade]

I dunno man, just cuz Vanney has been suss with line ups, subs and tactics before Curtis was around. Definitely furthers my Vanney out sentiments but also has me questioning what's going on w the FO.

Vanney's performed when he's given the tools that he requires. Curtis and Manning suck at providing these tools. Bez was too ambitious for Manning and he brought in that lame duck Curtis. #CurtisManningOut

[stevep]

I would give Vanney the benefit of the doubt and think that Curtis brought in poor choices.

afraid so, boy would that suck

[Ultra & Proud]

I would give Vanney the benefit of the doubt and think that Curtis brought in poor choices.
Due to his French connections I am thinking Benezet was probably a Vanney choice.

[Ultra & Proud]

The last time we got a pricey player that didn't get any opportunities to show what he could do in a MLS match was Urruti and although he isn't a barnstormer, he was better than what we had.

The longer it goes the more it looks like Vanney doesn't rate them but I think from some players comments they think these two can help. If we end up blowing this season and these guys don't get a whiff of action or get into games 33 and 34 when we're already eliminated and look good, then if were a TFC player I would be done with Vanney.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Vanney's performed when he's given the tools that he requires. Curtis and Manning suck at providing these tools. Bez was too ambitious for Manning and he brought in that lame duck Curtis. #CurtisManningOut

Absolutely beg to differ on that. Can think of numerous times where players have played out of position or sat on the bench because of Vanneys decisions. I'm not one to jump on the get rid of the coach train but I'm finally at that point with him.

[ensco]

Curtis does that whole video... how often did you see Vanney (or Manning) in it?

How often have we seen Curtis and Vanney in the same room, for any reason?

There is no cohesion. These guys don’t rate or like each other, I'd wager.

[DinamoTFC]

Curtis does that whole video... how often did you see Vanney (or Manning) in it?

How often have we seen Curtis and Vanney in the same room, for any reason?

There is no cohesion. These guys don’t rate or like each other, I'd wager.

I don't know if this is true. When curtis was revealed both manning and Vanney said curtis was their first choice and they both agreed on the decision together.

[ensco]

I don't know if this is true. When curtis was revealed both manning and Vanney said curtis was their first choice and they both agreed on the decision together.

In hindsight, was that a North Vietnamese POW video? Should we go back and look for blinking in morse code that spells “I am lying”? ;-)

[ag futbol]

I don't know if this is true. When curtis was revealed both manning and Vanney said curtis was their first choice and they both agreed on the decision together.
Come on. Who would seriously take statements like this at face value? (Or am I misreading your sarcasm?)

“My boss says it’s the right thing to do and I totally agree of my own free will and am not at all skeptical”

[Oldtimer]

I like Curtis' TAM signings. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I like Curtis' TAM signings. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Both were fantastic tonight. A lot of promise.

[stevep]

And if you dont see them on Saturday

Still too early to tell about the two new guys. They look promising.
Now assumed they are both good. Then you would have to say Curtis is brilliant gm
Lost gio, vv , gvw. he just started the job, brings in Poz, og, these two new guys plus laryea

[Fort York Redcoat]

Curtis now has got us the players we should've had at the start of the season. This team would've been one to be a contender. Now we have to hope to sneak away with championship.

I look forward to see if this team is kept next year. I could see some players moving on.

[samuraizero]

8. Signed Richie Laryea. Orlando cast off. Played 3 games, underwhelming player.
.


Hey Oldtimer - curious what you think about Richie now that we've seen some more of him?

[portu]

Curtis now has got us the players we should've had at the start of the season. This team would've been one to be a contender. Now we have to hope to sneak away with championship.

I look forward to see if this team is kept next year. I could see some players moving on.

This is a super early take. I don't what you've seen that I haven't, but we are nowhere near an MLS championship. It's still up in the air whether or not we're a playoff side.

[gracos]

This is not heading in the right direction; we are going backwards and I still want to know who other than Curtis was approached

[Oldtimer]

Hey Oldtimer - curious what you think about Richie now that we've seen some more of him?

He's better than I thought he'd be, has some potential.

[stevep]

Gio and vv leaves and all he does is bring in

Poz
Q
Laryea
Gonzalez
Benezet

The man is amazing

[James17930]

Gio and vv leaves and all he does is bring in

Poz
Q
Laryea
Gonzalez
Benezet

The man is amazing

Don't forget Gallardo and signing Shafts.

Our future looks bright.

[Defoe]

Gio and vv leaves and all he does is bring in

Poz
Q
Laryea
Gonzalez
Benezet

The man is amazing

yeah he's done a great job. I can't get over Lareya... it's like he was a worthless player in MLS with no future turned into a huge part of our team. It could cost millions in transfer fees to get a young RB with attacking talent like that. Q is the best value for $$ in MLS, Gonzalez looks good.Pozuelo is obviously a stud and will be even better next year. Benezet can be dangerous at times, if he can stay healthy he's worth the money at least as a squad rotation player. Only Gallardo hasn't look good but to early to write him off

[ensco]

Curtis was part of bringing in Westberg, Benezet, Gonzalez and maybe Pozuelo.

(DeLeon was Bez, a nice parting gift)

He kept the core pieces together, even when he must have been sorely tempted to move on from some of them (Delgado is an obvious example)

Vanney has the pieces he needed to pull this off.

Westberg is an especially great signing. The playoff MVP.

I am persuaded. Ali is the man.

Carry on.

[James17930]

Curtis was part of bringing in Westberg, Benezet, Gonzalez and maybe Pozuelo.

(DeLeon was Bez, a nice parting gift)

He kept the core pieces together, even when he must have been sorely tempted to move on from some of them (Delgado is an obvious example)

Vanney has the pieces he needed to pull this off.

Westberg is an especially great signing. The playoff MVP.

I am persuaded. Ali is the man.

Carry on.

A bit off-topic to only focus on this part of your post, but I've been thinking exactly the same thing.

If we win the Cup then Westberg should win MVP, for sure.

[Initial B]

If we win the Cup then Westberg should win MVP, for sure.
He even looks a bit like Stefan Frei. It would be nice if he denies the Sounders the same way.

[pfk]

A new profile on Ali Curtis on TSN, via Canadian Press: https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-general-manager-ali-curtis-wants-to-win-the-right-way-1.1393488

[Oldtimer]

My biggest evaluation of Curtis won't be his failure to get enough firepower to win the MLS Cup, he was in a hard situation when Seba left, it will be whether he has the cajones to get rid of Zavaleta.

[whositwhatnow]

My biggest evaluation of Curtis won't be his failure to get enough firepower to win the MLS Cup, he was in a hard situation when Seba left, it will be whether he has the cajones to get rid of Zavaleta.


lol not gonna happen

[OgtheDim]

Zavs is heading into his option year, IIRC. As he has had little playing time, I doubt he sticks around.

[ensco]

The endless accusations around here about Eriq and Vanney are slanderous and disrespectful.

Some people should be really embarrassed about what they are posting.

I wish mods would police this.

Vanney and Zavaleta have done nothing to deserve this. Zavs played when he played well, he didn’t when he didn’t.

[Ultra & Proud]

Zavs is heading into his option year, IIRC. As he has had little playing time, I doubt he sticks around.
For his sake and ours I am hoping Nashville select him. He is the kind of guy that type of expansion team would want. Not sure his salary is friendly enough but he is an experienced CB that could help a slow building expansion team for a few years.

[Oldtimer]

The endless accusations around here about Eriq and Vanney are slanderous and disrespectful.

Some people should be really embarrassed about what they are posting.

I wish mods would police this.

Vanney and Zavaleta have done nothing to deserve this. Zavs played when he played well, he didn’t when he didn’t.

I for one don't actually believe that Zavaleta is on the team due to nepotism. He was a known player before he played for his uncle. However his playing has declined significantly, does Curtis have what it takes to trade someone who played on the 2017 championship team?

[Oldtimer]

For his sake and ours I am hoping Nashville select him. He is the kind of guy that type of expansion team would want. Not sure his salary is friendly enough but he is an experienced CB that could help a slow building expansion team for a few years.

That would be good for everyone. Sometimes a change can bring out the best in a player. For TFC it would be an upgrade by subtraction.

[ensco]

I for one don't actually believe that Zavaleta is on the team due to nepotism. He was a known player before he played for his uncle. However his playing has declined significantly, does Curtis have what it takes to trade someone who played on the 2017 championship team?

Of course he does. Or more precisely, they do.

Zavs has been buried for months. He didn't even get in the 18 when Gonzalez went out, and 35 year old Drew Moor had to come out of the rocking chair for extra time in that game.

[Initial B]

I liked Zavs in 2017, but his last appearance led to a red card within 10 minutes of being subbed on. I said then that with that performance he played himself off the team. He's trying too hard, making mistakes, and getting frustrated. A change of scenery is probably for the best. I doubt we'll see him in 2020 in a red uniform.

[Richard]

How's hiring your buddy Armas working out for you?

Why did we give this guy an extension?

[portu]

"We are in a results-oriented business," Bezbatchenko told a hastily called news conference Sunday at the team's north Toronto training facility. "And over the past 13 matches, we've won three games. More important for our fans in Toronto, we've won one game in the past six matches ... I know we can get more out of this group of guys." - August, 2014 on the Firing of Ryan Nelsen

Armas has 2 wins through 11, 1 in the past 6

[Fort York Redcoat]

"We are in a results-oriented business," Bezbatchenko told a hastily called news conference Sunday at the team's north Toronto training facility. "And over the past 13 matches, we've won three games. More important for our fans in Toronto, we've won one game in the past six matches ... I know we can get more out of this group of guys." - August, 2014 on the Firing of Ryan Nelsen

Armas has 2 wins through 11, 1 in the past 6




Great find! And terribly depressing.

Not helping is that it will be another month till we get to that 13 match mark because international break. Strap in.

[OgtheDim]

Nelsen was not Bez' guy - Vanney was the guy in the wings brought in just in case.

Armas is Curtis' hire.

That's the difference.

[rydermike]

"We are in a results-oriented business," Bezbatchenko told a hastily called news conference Sunday at the team's north Toronto training facility. "And over the past 13 matches, we've won three games. More important for our fans in Toronto, we've won one game in the past six matches ... I know we can get more out of this group of guys." - August, 2014 on the Firing of Ryan Nelsen

Armas has 2 wins through 11, 1 in the past 6






It's not a results oriented business anymore, it's a friend's oriented business now

[OgtheDim]

It's not a results oriented business anymore, it's a friend's oriented business now


Kinda - there has always been a buddy thing in sports. Sports started out as a group of people wanting to do things who always relied upon somebody within the group with a benefactor & then when the investment necessary became too big, the benefactors took over. The who you know never really left the industry.

Issue for people at MLSE, and one reason why most sports don't want corporate entities running teams, is there has to be some ROI on everything, even if its seen to be coming in Q4 of 2026. Sports operations by and large hate that thinking because they are more comfortable with the buddy system where ROI is not the key. This is tempered slightly at MLSE because the operational rep of the board is Larry T.

Conversely, the buddy system that most media & the sports teams they cover operate under with people coming to practices etc. has broken down with TFC being away from Toronto, to the point where

a) the club has been giving out less & less information
b) a journalist not as concerned about access has started to ask some piercing questions that we are glad are being asked but are making TFC people uncomfortable - see Singh asking directly about Q & this week about the Auro as DM thing.


********

Consensus on Armas is the team likely won't keep him around if they are not looking like making the playoffs. I personally think if playoffs are the goal, then now being let go is better then August but the braintrust has other ideas right now.

Curtis will only go so far in protecting Armas.

[portu]

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure how much of a buddy-buddy hire Armas is. The main thing to me is heirarchy. How does Curtis avoid losing his job to his head coach again.

Why Armas won’t lose his job is because this club clings to stability to like a child does to Halloween candy. It’s the same reason they re-signed Jozy (I don’t buy the PR angle - this club under Manning has not given a shit about PR or fan relations). Their philosophy is “the problem we know is better than the problem we don’t”, which is great until it’s not. It’s a reactive philosophy because technically the only time you enact change is when it’s absolutely necessary or when no change at all is worse than the current problem. What does that mean for Armas and the club? Well, it means the bar is incredibly low because management is petrified of risk and uncertainty. They’ll ride out Armas until the very bitter end, not because he’s a buddy hire, but because they are terrible executive decision makers. That’s why “two weeks” is the way we all describe the efficiency with which this team acts.

[leedsandTFC]

tbh ali curtis' player recruitment has been pretty good.

apart from gallardo, most players he has brought in have been good acquisitions.

however, all that completely undone with armas hire.

pointless to bring in good players if you dont hire a coach who will put them in a position to succeed.

[ensco]

Given the importance of second half momentum in MLS, and the lack of importance of these games, we have more time than you guys think. Armas deserves more time UNLESS there are problems he is causing that we don’t see yet. If yes, then he may have to go sooner. I think a lot of things are going wrong at once. Suspect Armas isn’t really part of the Jozy thing. We can’t know here if the injuries are a fluke or a criticism, we need inside info for that.

I think the model is Seattle firing Sigi Schmid after 19 games (they were 6-12-1) and then turning it around.

But Armas is truly being a bullet head about formation stuff, and I am with the rest of you on this. He has to stop with the Auro at CM and Delgado on the wing insanity. I have always hated formation bs. Soccer is soccer. You play your best XI in the formation that makes most sense for them.

[jloome]

Given the importance of second half momentum in MLS, and the lack of importance of these games, we have more time than you guys think. Armas deserves more time UNLESS there are problems he is causing that we don’t see yet. If yes, then he may have to go sooner. I think a lot of things are going wrong at once. Suspect Armas isn’t really part of the Jozy thing. We can’t know here if the injuries are a fluke or a criticism, we need inside info for that.

I think the model is Seattle firing Sigi Schmid after 19 games (they were 6-12-1) and then turning it around.

But Armas is truly being a bullet head about formation stuff, and I am with the rest of you on this. He has to stop with the Auro at CM and Delgado on the wing insanity. I have always hated formation bs. Soccer is soccer. You play your best XI in the formation that makes most sense for them.

I don't disagree, but I do have to wonder about the viability at MLS level of a coach who doesn't understand that basic principle, who hasn't noticed positional experimentation failing at dozens of other clubs over the years.

How is someone going to be a top-level manager if they don't absorb the most basic lessons of the role?

[Canary10]

I don't disagree, but I do have to wonder about the viability at MLS level of a coach who doesn't understand that basic principle, who hasn't noticed positional experimentation failing at dozens of other clubs over the years.

How is someone going to be a top-level manager if they don't absorb the most basic lessons of the role?

It’s also one of the exact things he was criticized for doing in New York. And here we are again. When do you conclude he’ll never learn?

[Oldtimer]

This thread is the Curtis evaluation thread.

Armas thread is here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?43101-Chris-Armas-Evaluation-Thread/page6

[Canary10]

This thread is the Curtis evaluation thread.

Armas thread is here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?43101-Chris-Armas-Evaluation-Thread/page6

Sorry!

[MightyDM]

Dont know where to put this but the club needs to be putting stuff out and not letting speculation and gossip linger. Get on the front foot man! And Curtis is in a position to recognize that and push to make it happen.

[portu]

Dont know where to put this but the club needs to be putting stuff out and not letting speculation and gossip linger. Get on the front foot man! And Curtis is in a position to recognize that and push to make it happen.
Molinaro has an interview with Curtis coming this week.

[jloome]

Molinaro has an interview with Curtis coming this week.

In all the considerations of Curtis, losing Vanney has to be part of the calculation. According to the Zavaleta interview, everyone expected him to stay up to a month before the decision. I wonder how hard Ali sold him on staying.

[notthesun]

I thought Curtis was doing an ok job. Some good, some bad, I was fine with him and wanted to see where things would go.

But the hiring of Armas has so heavily soured me on his judgment. I think I'm #CurtisOut now. This hire just makes zero sense, absolutely none at all for the type of team we have and the kind of club we are within MLS. If Curtis could not see that then I have no faith whatsoever in his decision-making.

[portu]

I think Curtis bought significant time for him and Armas by referring to the 1-6 run that the Red Bulls started the 2016 season with.

[ag futbol]

In all the considerations of Curtis, losing Vanney has to be part of the calculation. According to the Zavaleta interview, everyone expected him to stay up to a month before the decision. I wonder how hard Ali sold him on staying.
I go back to him being furnished with a contract offer half way through the year and just putting it off. Maybe those facts weren’t public but to anyone who knew those details it seems pretty clear his intent was not to renew.

I don’t know how hard Ali could sell anybody on anything. He’s not the type.

[Blindside16]

I think Curtis bought significant time for him and Armas by referring to the 1-6 run that the Red Bulls started the 2016 season with.


The difference between that team and Toronto is that Marsch was leading the Red Bulls and not playing people out of position on a whim that something magical may open up

[OgtheDim]

I go back to him being furnished with a contract offer half way through the year and just putting it off. Maybe those facts weren’t public but to anyone who knew those details it seems pretty clear his intent was not to renew.

I don’t know how hard Ali could sell anybody on anything. He’s not the type.


Yeh, and the calculation for Vanney would also include nice weather, near family, no lockdown & his MLS team. As soon as it became obvious LA was likely to be looking for a new manager, Vanney was pretty much gone.

[Areathrasher]

When people make comments about Vanney leaving due to lockdown and family etc....They know he's in LA on his own right? His wife and kids stayed in Toronto and arent moving till school year is done.

[Canary10]

When people make comments about Vanney leaving due to lockdown and family etc....They know he's in LA on his own right? His wife and kids stayed in Toronto and arent moving till school year is done.

What school year?

[jloome]

Yeh, and the calculation for Vanney would also include nice weather, near family, no lockdown & his MLS team. As soon as it became obvious LA was likely to be looking for a new manager, Vanney was pretty much gone.

Just as speculative. As noted above, his family are still in Canada. The lockdown was still in there when he took the job, so that doesn't really factor.

It's the Galaxy and he's an alum.

Perhaps, however, all of that was also weighted against the people he was working under.

I mean, if MLSE hadn't fucked the dog, they'd have given Bez the president job when Lieweke left.

[noxx98]

When people make comments about Vanney leaving due to lockdown and family etc....They know he's in LA on his own right? His wife and kids stayed in Toronto and arent moving till school year is done.
His son has been at Galaxy games and his Instagram says he’s in the Galaxy academy. So the family has moved down there now.

[Bushmancan]

I mean, if MLSE hadn't fucked the dog, they'd have given Bez the president job when Lieweke left.

^THIS


EDIT - I mean what has Bez done since he left, only took a team on the brink of collapse and won an MLS Cup (not much)

[Areathrasher]

His son has been at Galaxy games and his Instagram says he’s in the Galaxy academy. So the family has moved down there now.

He told the media around the time of his farewell presser that his wife and kids would stay till the end of the school year.

EDIT: The move appears to be recent per the insta

[ag futbol]

Perhaps, however, all of that was also weighted against the people he was working under.

I mean, if MLSE hadn't fucked the dog, they'd have given Bez the president job when Lieweke left.
Agree, but look at the route they went: guy the boss knows, has corporate experience, who produces 200 page reports. Is clearly very cerebral and calculated. For a stodgy bunch of telco’s this is right up their alley.

Conversely we have the protege of the world’s biggest cowboy.

They had Leiweke PTSD and overcorrected, clearly.

[OgtheDim]

When people make comments about Vanney leaving due to lockdown and family etc....They know he's in LA on his own right? His wife and kids stayed in Toronto and arent moving till school year is done.


My point was Vanney's & his wife's family are in the US & he is free to go see them. His Mom died a couple of years ago - I think his Dad might still be around.

Its a thing to consider.

And, California was out of lockdown in December with LA freely able to train & kids in school.

We get patios next week.

I know people may not think its important but a lot of people have mentionned the grind players have is being on the road, coming back to a hotel, then touching base with family who can't go to school or do anything. That was going on last year & weighs on the mind when choosing whether to stay somewhere.

Vanney didn't leave because Curtis is here. Vanney left because he saw a better environment to work in, closer to extended family & a project he wants to work on.

[jloome]

Vanney didn't leave because Curtis is here.

Yeah, but we don’t know that, at all.

Curtis hired Armas. Curtis was fired by NY because he couldnt get along with Jesse Marsch... and RB valued a coach whose prior experience was Montreal for one season more than Curtis.

On available evidence I’d say there’s every possibility Vanney had the same view of him as Marsch.

[MightyDM]

Yeah, but we don’t know that, at all.

Curtis hired Armas. Curtis was fired by NY because he couldnt get along with Jesse Marsch... and RB valued a coach whose prior experience was Montreal for one season more than Curtis.

On available evidence I’d say there’s every possibility Vanney had the same view of him as Marsch.

Both of you are likely right. Og's "Vanney left because he saw a better environment to work in, closer to extended family & a project he wants to work on. " and your "On available evidence I’d say there’s every possibility Vanney had the same view of him as Marsch"

[Oldtimer]

I for one don't actually believe that Zavaleta is on the team due to nepotism. He was a known player before he played for his uncle. However his playing has declined significantly, does Curtis have what it takes to trade someone who played on the 2017 championship team?


Of course he does. Or more precisely, they do.

Zavs has been buried for months. He didn't even get in the 18 when Gonzalez went out, and 35 year old Drew Moor had to come out of the rocking chair for extra time in that game.

Actually... :-(

Zavaleta staying and playing is symptomatic of the issues with this team under Curtis' choice of coach. Now I ask, does Curtis have what it takes to get rid of Armas?

At some point TFC is going to have to reevaluate Curtis and the whole ex NYRB experiment. It was a failure the first time we tried it (under Mo) and its been a failure so far this time.

A lot of TFC fans felt losing Giovinco's was TFC's biggest loss over the years personnel-wise. I'm starting to wonder if losing Bez was actually a greater loss.

[James17930]

A lot of TFC fans felt losing Giovinco's was TFC's biggest loss over the years personnel-wise. I'm starting to wonder if losing Bez was actually a greater loss.

Well, if Bez had stayed we probably would've signed Zelarayan. So ... yeah.

[Gringo Starr]

I vote Bez as the greatest loss we have had as a club, after Bez league office experience was probably highly regarded which leads to Curtis.

[Bushmancan]

^Agreed

Unfortunately, I don't see Jozy coming back. I put this here because there is nothing good organizationally about the Jozy issue, and that is an Ali thing and I believe contrived (Jozy has pride).... also agree with MightDM's post in the Armas out thread, but Ultra's Jozy & Armas out is probably right. BUT Ali is culpable as well!!

In essence with the first window closed we cannot do anything until early July. Thats 5 games if you include the July 7th game. This means our strikeforce is Dwyer, Akinola and Mullins. Crickets on Achara. We wouldn't know about Soteldo, if it wasn't for Venezuela.

As above (IMHO), the Jozy situation was calculated and created by Ali and Armas to get Jozy out (or why would you have had Dwyer as a back up in camp). We have Orlando, Nashville, Cincinnati, New England and DC. How many points you think we are going to get from these games. If they don't get more than 6, both should be gone.... 9 will keep their jobs, but there was a time I wouldn't have settled for less than 13.

It is really sad how they are crushing an amazing brand and tearing a legend down in the process.

[MightyDM]

One plausible explanation of the Jozy situation is that they had an offer for him as rumored (USMNT camp) and didn’t take it - so when he was taken off he said to Armas “if you don’t want to play me why am I here?” Or similar.

[Bushmancan]

Even more, we have been in a lockdown. Haven't seen our team at home in over a year. They should be over communicating with us and not making us have to look everywhere for updates.... shame on you Ali.

[MightyDM]

Even more, we have been in a lockdown. Haven't seen our team at home in over a year. They should be over communicating with us and not making us have to look everywhere for updates.... shame on you Ali.

Totally

[Slick]

Even more, we have been in a lockdown. Haven't seen our team at home in over a year. They should be over communicating with us and not making us have to look everywhere for updates.... shame on you Ali.

If a reporter were to ask him to comment on this, guaranteed you'll get a scripted response, "covid has been really hard for the organization, making day to day management extremely difficult".

[jloome]

If a reporter were to ask him to comment on this, guaranteed you'll get a scripted response, "covid has been really hard for the organization, making day to day management extremely difficult".

Probably, which is why you do it. I was a reporter and editor at dailies for years; much of the time, you know what the person is going to say when you ask a question. It's getting it on the record, and repeated similar comments, that focuses attention on someone's decision.

When reporters ignore the basic questions, no pressure builds. They just jump from angle to angle. But when the headline day after day is someone explaining themselves people eventually decide to act to deal with the issue, before tangential bad press affects more people.

If you watch media in Europe, where it hasn't been financially gutted yet because governments haven't allowed its wholesale theft and redistribution online, and where more protections over the value of ad space have been taken, they still ask this stuff. And it builds pressure. It works.

[ag futbol]

I know the majority of the attention right now is on Armas but I think Curtis should be taking significant heat as well.

Altidore being unhappy, Gonzalez being too slow, the lack of a secondary goal scoring threat, not ensuring the team had an off season fitness regime… these were are foreseeable problems that weren’t addressed adequately.

He takes too long to act and things just stack up. The sooner he leaves, the better.

[ensco]

Yeah I agree. We have a body of work in his case, and I don't think Curtis is growing into the job.

[jloome]

I know the majority of the attention right now is on Armas but I think Curtis should be taking significant heat as well.

Altidore being unhappy, Gonzalez being too slow, the lack of a secondary goal scoring threat, not ensuring the team had an off season fitness regime… these were are foreseeable problems that weren’t addressed adequately.

He takes too long to act and things just stack up. The sooner he leaves, the better.

This shitshow is pretty much his. Armas is a symptom of it, a guy who does not appear ready for the role he's been given.

People can talk about improvement all we want, but we still lost on three stupid goals that came directly from disorganization and arrogant, dangerous plays, things good coaches tend to drill out of players.

But throughout, the frantic tactical approach has been getting thumbs up from the front office.

His 300-page plan that was so mocked in NY is somewhat telling. Anyone who thinks they have that many answers before they've even started the job is likely to be inflexible and arrogant in approach. What, none of the people you're going to work with have anything to contribute? There's nothing unique about this place that won't fit preconceptions?

It's arrogant. It's the way a Football Manager fan manages. "We're going with the high 4-3-3- press, that's what will work. Fuck the team at my disposal, we need to mold their skills to fit our ideas."

Apparently not.

I don't give Curtis much credit for signings, which have been mixed, as all three of the big ones (Pozuelo, Soteldo, Lawrence) were looking for a new destination, the two latter were likely offered to us on a plate, and we're paying through the nose.

Meanwhile, actual roster shortcomings like our defence and bench depth at other positions is ignored.

I can't even say the offense last night was better coaching; everything we did centered on Pozuelo beating two men and dishing the ball, which has been unavailable up until now. Can't rely on one player and once Osorio left the game, we had no guile, just speed with Shaff.

They should both go, on current evidence, Manning along with them for smiling and waving extensions for all.

[Bushmancan]

“Trophies are not won in the first seven games of the season. They’re won in the middle, they’re won at the end,” he noted. “The focus this week will be on what's in front of us, which is the game against Orlando – have a good week of training, come together and try to get a result, and then we can build on that, go from there.”, Ali Curtis … no Ali but they are lost. training failures and injuries, inexperienced at winning, DP and Legend banished… but give me a 5 year contract #thanksbuddy

[jloome]

“Trophies are not won in the first seven games of the season. They’re won in the middle, they’re won at the end,” he noted. “The focus this week will be on what's in front of us, which is the game against Orlando – have a good week of training, come together and try to get a result, and then we can build on that, go from there.”, Ali Curtis … no Ali but they are lost. training failures and injuries, inexperienced at winning, DP and Legend banished… but give me a 5 year contract #thanksbuddy

I’d go as far as saying he’s the bigger problem.

Armas could still come good, I just doubt it will happen.

But…why is the league’s highest spending club — with a recent record to match —even hiring a question mark? Why didn’t we follow Vanney with a proven coach, who has actually won somewhere?

It’s the ambition to present his ideas as novel and genius that says he does not have the requisite humility to be a successful GM.

If Manning were able to recognize talent he’d have gotten rid of Ali and given Vanney both jobs. Plenty of other managers in football manage both roles. You could even argue there’s more cohesion between the first team and acquisitions whme the guy making the deals knows what we need and doesn’t have to circumvent politics.

[noimpactinmtl]

Meanwhile, actual roster shortcomings like our defence and bench depth at other positions is ignored.


This is the MLS, any defensive player you do sign have either major red flags, are a reclamation project, or have a notable flaw. Same with bench depth. It’s an effect of the salary cap, and one of the few ways you can build both is by promoting academy players and sorting out player development (see Philadelphia Union and NYRB).

Ironically, Ali might be more aware of that problem than we think, if he believes promoting academy players and giving them a chance is what it takes to improve.

Replacing Curtis is no guarantee we would solve any of those problems. Or we solve one but create two. Even when we outspend the rest of the league, we still have a team with noticeable flaws.

[OgtheDim]

Just a note Vanney may not have wanted that role - he doesn't have it in LA.

[ag futbol]

It’s the ambition to present his ideas as novel and genius that says he does not have the requisite humility to be a successful GM.

Right from the point Manning introduced him, he was sort of presented as a this deep thinking, very professional GM, whose prior contributions were undervalued and misunderstood, much like the man himself.

The lazy (but I think correct) comment was this guy is too much of an odd ball, has a chip on his shoulder, and just isn’t effective.

I am left with the feeling the MLSE Board is asleep at the wheel here. The investment in the team is really commendable. What are they getting back? And why are we doing the equivalent of handing over the keys to our Ferrari to a couple of bus drivers? High quality management is the cheapest expenditure in this whole project. Find people with a vision that matches the budget, not these guys.

[ag futbol]

This is the MLS, any defensive player you do sign have either major red flags, are a reclamation project, or have a notable flaw..
I’m going to challenge this notion. We are past the days in this league where everyone is earning $200k a year and there are so many limitations every signing is a crap shoot.

We pay Omar Gonzalez $1.2 million a year. That is good money for a central defender anywhere in this hemisphere. You have options.

Is it top league in Europe quality? Of course not. But it certainly isn’t a crapshoot either.

[spe18]

I’d go as far as saying he’s the bigger problem.

Armas could still come good, I just doubt it will happen.

But…why is the league’s highest spending club — with a recent record to match —even hiring a question mark? Why didn’t we follow Vanney with a proven coach, who has actually won somewhere?

It’s the ambition to present his ideas as novel and genius that says he does not have the requisite humility to be a successful GM.

If Manning were able to recognize talent he’d have gotten rid of Ali and given Vanney both jobs. Plenty of other managers in football manage both roles. You could even argue there’s more cohesion between the first team and acquisitions whme the guy making the deals knows what we need and doesn’t have to circumvent politics.

Maybe because if you had a more proven coach, then he would've wanted a bigger say in the way the club was run, which was something that Manning & Ali didn't want to give up (and also what Vanney would've wanted as well)?

Infact, wasn't this the reason why they didn't proceed with bringing on Blanc or Viera?

[portu]

Maybe because if you had a more proven coach, then he would've wanted a bigger say in the way the club was run, which was something that Manning & Ali didn't want to give up (and also what Vanney would've wanted as well)?

Infact, wasn't this the reason why they didn't proceed with bringing on Blanc or Viera?
Last time Ali hired a good coach he lost his job.

[spe18]

Last time Ali hired a good coach he lost his job.

Ahhhh......so perhaps that's why they won't go with a proven coach :)

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I am left with the feeling the MLSE Board is asleep at the wheel here. The investment in the team is really commendable. What are they getting back? And why are we doing the equivalent of handing over the keys to our Ferrari to a couple of bus drivers? High quality management is the cheapest expenditure in this whole project. Find people with a vision that matches the budget, not these guys.

I think this is the crux of the matter for TFC.

MLSE being a billion-dollar corporate entity, and also owning The Leafs and the Raps plus the Argos, TFC and the Argos being the 3rd and 4th fiddle in this sports team's quartet, but this 3rd fiddle is considered very far as importance from that 2nd fiddle (the Raps). This is why I think if results are not proper compared with the investitions, too much time (2-4 seasons?) need to pass for the upper MLSE management to look seriously at TFC, and take radical measures themselves (like replacing Manning for ex.).

TFC's parent being such a corporate entity is really a double edged sword: yes, they invest in the team, they will always be probably among the biggest 6 spenders in MLS, but they will never care that much about the results corellated with this spending as would a company, or a person (some billionaire) who would own just a single major league sports team.
That will just never happen.

Once (maybe 1 year ago) I posted that if we look at spendings on everything which is TFC, our team is the biggest underachiever in MLS since it's existence. The majority of those who expressed their views on my post, said that's not true.
But I am still firmly holding that same opinion.

[noimpactinmtl]

I think this is the crux of the matter for TFC.

MLSE being a billion-dollar corporate entity, and also owning The Leafs and the Raps plus the Argos, TFC and the Argos being the 3rd and 4th fiddle in this sports team's quartet, but this 3rd fiddle is considered very far as importance from that 2nd fiddle (the Raps). This is why I think if results are not proper compared with the investitions, too much time (2-4 seasons?) need to pass for the upper MLSE management to look seriously at TFC, and take radical measures themselves (like replacing Manning for ex.).

TFC's parent being such a corporate entity is really a double edged sword: yes, they invest in the team, they will always be probably among the biggest 6 spenders in MLS, but they will never care that much about the results corellated with this spending as would a company, or a person (some billionaire) who would own just a single major league sports team.
That will just never happen.

Once (maybe 1 year ago) I posted that if we look at spendings on everything which is TFC, our team is the biggest underachiever in MLS since it's existence. The majority of those who expressed their views on my post, said that's not true.
But I am still firmly holding that same opinion.


The flip side is you end up with a Jerry Jones or a Harold Ballard type of owner. MLSE has been good for the past decade when they stay out of the way and trust their employees (Masai, Shanny and Manning/Bezbatchenko/Vanney) to do their jobs. It's when things go wrong that hands-off owners gets exposed for their lack of expertise.

[Ultra & Proud]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:


#TFCLive (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFCLive?src=hashtag_click) goalkeeper Quentin Westberg contracted the #COVID19 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hashtag_click) virus - as did his wife Ania and all four of their young children - when they returned to Toronto from France this year, hence his late arrival to pre-season camp and his not starting any games earlier this season #MLS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLS?src=hashtag_click)

The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.

[portu]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:



The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.
I strongly disagree. This is medical info. Keeping this info private is an absolute expectation and no one has any right to it. I’m just glad that they’re okay and I hope this info was acquired and disseminated with consent.

[djking2]

I'm just gonna check back every now and then to see if they fired Armas yet

[ag futbol]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:



The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.
It all seems a little bit odd to be talking about this now. If I look at our first game of the MLS season against Vancouver and the second game against club Leon… Westberg is there, on the bench.

Did they have to hold him back a bit while he gained fitness? Sure, fair ball. But at some point that ended and they were clearly trying Bono on as the permanent starter.

Releasing this info now, after you’ve posted one win in 10 games, is just trying to re-write history.

I’ll look forward to next week’s press release how it only appeared like we played Auro at CM, but really, he was still a fullback.

[noxx98]

It's unclear how this info came out, particularly since Buffery is the only one running with this.. I know in the NBA teams have not announced who has COVID, it's been up to the players to decide whether to release it. Maybe Westberg didn't want to share the news previously for some reason. I hope in this instance it wasn't the team leaking the info and is instead Westberg finally feeling comfortable sharing things.

[jloome]

It all seems a little bit odd to be talking about this now. If I look at our first game of the MLS season against Vancouver and the second game against club Leon… Westberg is there, on the bench.

Did they have to hold him back a bit while he gained fitness? Sure, fair ball. But at some point that ended and they were clearly trying Bono on as the permanent starter.

Releasing this info now, after you’ve posted one win in 10 games, is just trying to re-write history.

I’ll look forward to next week’s press release how it only appeared like we played Auro at CM, but really, he was still a fullback.

A lot of excuses dripping out when convenient.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's unclear how this info came out, particularly since Buffery is the only one running with this.. I know in the NBA teams have not announced who has COVID, it's been up to the players to decide whether to release it. Maybe Westberg didn't want to share the news previously for some reason. I hope in this instance it wasn't the team leaking the info and is instead Westberg finally feeling comfortable sharing things.
Actually NBA does. For instance Chris Paul out for Covid protocol last week and various Scottish & English players at the Euros. Sure they shouldn't name his family but other leagues are using the term Covid protocol. There shouldn't be a stigma for getting Covid. Who cares as long as the person is okay? I had and I really don't care who knows it.

[noxx98]

Actually NBA does. For instance Chris Paul out for Covid protocol last week and various Scottish & English players at the Euros. Sure they shouldn't name his family but other leagues are using the term Covid protocol. There shouldn't be a stigma for getting Covid. Who cares as long as the person is okay? I had and I really don't care who knows it.
Covid protocol is different than having covid. Covid protocol includes just being a close contact of someone who had it. Although it was confirmed that Chris Paul tested positive later.
When the raptors had their outbreak, players self announced if they had tested positive. The team only said they were in health and safety protocol.

[Ultra & Proud]

Covid protocol is different than having covid. Covid protocol includes just being a close contact of someone who had it. Although it was confirmed that Chris Paul tested positive later.
When the raptors had their outbreak, players self announced if they had tested positive. The team only said they were in health and safety protocol.

Yes but the point is Curtis could have said that term and then there's no questions, no angst, no mystery. Didn't have to say he had it. Just say protocol then quarantine then getting into match fitness. Basically the communication sucks.

[ensco]

It better not be mgmt wanting it both ways. If it is, there's no faster way to lose the room.

What I mean by both ways: If Bono had been great, or good enough to be moved, then it's just “weren’t we smart”. But now it's “we had no choice”.

This may not be the case, but I can tell you who will know- it’s the players.

[spe18]

Yes but the point is Curtis could have said that term and then there's no questions, no angst, no mystery. Didn't have to say he had it. Just say protocol then quarantine then getting into match fitness. Basically the communication sucks.

Is a club in MLS actually required to annouce that someone is in covid protocol?

And if not, and a player specifically requests that the info not get released (not saying that this is what Westberg had requested), then does a club not have a right to honour that request?

Anyhow, since I don't believe the league actually has such requirement, and this is involving someone's personal (and their family's) health, I think it's best if we just leave it at this.

[Ultra & Proud]

It better not be mgmt wanting it both ways. If it is, there's no faster way to lose the room.

What I mean by both ways: If Bono had been great, or good enough to be moved, then it's just “weren’t we smart”. But now it's “we had no choice”.

This may not be the case, but I can tell you who will know- it’s the players.
I never thought of this but it makes a lot of sense with who is in control of our team.

[portu]

I think the only reason Armas still has a job is because the players love him. It’s actually insane that we suck this bad and players haven’t been like “fuck this”.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the only reason Armas still has a job is because the players love him. It’s actually insane that we suck this bad and players haven’t been like “fuck this”.
I think he's a "one of the boys" type manager. He must be and from all accounts he is a nice, straight up kind of guy and people like him for that. I worked with all kinds of people at my job and I tolerated a very, very dumb and lazy guy for over a year because he was a very nice guy so I gave him a lot of leeway to grow. In contrast I had a nasty, know it all lady a couple months ago and she lasted a few weeks before I was done and she was gone.

[Bushmancan]

Has Jozy refused to train with the team, did he explicitly said something that should have him banned, if so why hasn't Jozy been fined?

Without any communications, Curtis' action say there is no role for Jozy on the team. Is Jozy even in Orlando?

Massively confused with what is going on...

I understand Jozy's silence but MLSE & Manning, come on!! Ali has created a circus....

EDIT - found this but it is two weeks old. Cant be crickets forever. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toronto-gm-ali-curtis-jozy-altidore-still-training-on-his-own-all-options-are-on

EDIT2 - https://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/marca-personal/jozy-altidore-futbolista-estadounidense-enamoro-penarol-llamaron.html

[spe18]

Has Jozy refused to train with the team, did he explicitly said something that should have him banned, if so why hasn't Jozy been fined?

Without any communications, Curtis' action say there is no role for Jozy on the team. Is Jozy even in Orlando?

Massively confused with what is going on...

I understand Jozy's silence but MLSE & Manning, come on!! Ali has created a circus....

EDIT - found this but it is two weeks old. Cant be crickets forever. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toronto-gm-ali-curtis-jozy-altidore-still-training-on-his-own-all-options-are-on

EDIT2 - https://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/marca-personal/jozy-altidore-futbolista-estadounidense-enamoro-penarol-llamaron.html

As per your "edits", I believe you have answered your own question, as I was going to post this in reply:

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-says-it-plans-talks-over-future-of-disgruntled-striker-jozy-altidore-1.1646987
"That conversation will be handled internally," he added. "It will be a club decision. And it will incorporate what I would say is the totality of the time that Jozy has been with the club, such that we arrive at a resolution that is in the best interests of the club — and moves us closer to being in a position to win a championship."
Previously the only comment the MLS club had made on the Altidore situation was that it was an "internal matter that we are keeping in-house."

[Richard]

If Ali doesn't fire him before next game he needs to be sacked as well.

Manning needs to put on his big boy pants and take some ownership here too.

[Auzzy]

If Ali doesn't fire him before next game he needs to be sacked as well.

Manning needs to put on his big boy pants and take some ownership here too.

Ali will resolve the Armas situation two weeks after he resolves the Jozy situation.

[MikeForbes]

Ali is gonna use Armas as a meat shield. But, questions are gonna start being raised by the board as to why they made the Armas hire in the first place and wasted their money. He will get one more manager hire before Manning uses Curtis as his own meat shield.

[Auzzy]

Ali is gonna use Armas as a meat shield. But, questions are gonna start being raised by the board as to why they made the Armas hire in the first place and wasted their money. He will get one more manager hire before Manning uses Curtis as his own meat shield.

It's sad isn't it? We're probably gonna spin the coaching turnstile a couple more times before things get fixed, like the bad old days of TFC. Lots of player turnover as each guy wants to bring some of his style of players. No continuity. Lots of budget money lost to panic deals, player buyouts, or even players getting banished.

[Kamp Berg]

There are a lot of reasons to fire Ali Curtis, but not finding the team new #1 & #3 CBs in the off-season is reason enough.

[benito]

Please fire Curtis.

[MikeForbes]

Yep. Time for Curtis to go too.

[FootBallAZ]

Fire Curtis ali

[rydermike]

Reason he won't be fired
https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1371917649760944130?lang=ca

[Oldtimer]

From March.

[rydermike]

From March.
I know. I posted it as a face-palm and the reason he won't be fired

[DinamoTFC]

Curtis has lost the plot completely

[Bushmancan]

Curtis has lost the plot completely


Curtis is the real problem…. Manning gets a limited pass.

[Initial B]

The reason why Curtis should be fired is apparent from Armas's handling of the squad. A GM should know the strengths and weaknesses of the players currently on the team through interactions with the previous coach. The fact that he hired Armas who had a coaching style that was not a match for the personnel available would seem to indicate that he did not have a good rapport with the previous coach who should have been able to tell him where the weak points were and what coach would best fit the personnel. I'm betting that's one of the reasons why Vanney left - Curtis either didn't value him as a resource regarding personnel decisions or wanted to put his own stamp on the club in a different style but lacks the talent to do so.

[Auzzy]

Curtis has to go. Put some temp guys in place of Curtis and Armas.

Manning should focus on the Argos, hire somebody else to run the soccer side. Let him hire a new (permanent) GM and coach.

That probably won't happen, but it's what needs to happen.

[ag futbol]

The reason why Curtis should be fired is apparent from Armas's handling of the squad. A GM should know the strengths and weaknesses of the players currently on the team through interactions with the previous coach. The fact that he hired Armas who had a coaching style that was not a match for the personnel available would seem to indicate that he did not have a good rapport with the previous coach who should have been able to tell him where the weak points were and what coach would best fit the personnel. I'm betting that's one of the reasons why Vanney left - Curtis either didn't value him as a resource regarding personnel decisions or wanted to put his own stamp on the club in a different style but lacks the talent to do so.
It just goes to show how poor a job was done on the interview / diligence in hiring a coach.

A no-brainer question in that process is to ask what style of play is intended. And then, given Armas’s preferred style, asking why it would actually work given our roster limitations. It should have been obvious enough at that point this was all a bad idea.

But I do wonder, given past history, if this isn’t necessarily 100% an Armas decision. Maybe Ali Curtis wants the press and made that known when he was doing the hiring. In which case, he’s just a much the problem.

[OgtheDim]

I still think Armas was plan B.


DCU was negotiating terms & TFC swept in.


TFC doesn't do this unless their plan A went awry.

[Smokecell]

IMO if Curtis doesn’t want to fire Armas, you fire them both. Not even sure if this belongs here or the Manning thread.

[jloome]

Manning won’t fire either unless ordered by the board. He just extended Ali’s deal and firing him would be an admission of total failure to properly evaluate his report’s performance.

Instead, he’ll cling to the hope of another rationale coming along to justify firings, or bail out into a lateral move to another company (most likely).

There was a massive survey of corporate executive value a few years ago that found 60% of American CEOs detract value from the company they
lead; guys like Manning don’t survive so long while producing so little unless they’re very good at networking and knowing when to bail.

If he leaves now, it’s like this season doesn’t exist on his CV and someone will be sloppy enough to not check, or to undervalue the warning signs.

[ag futbol]

I still think Armas was plan B.


DCU was negotiating terms & TFC swept in.


TFC doesn't do this unless their plan A went awry.
I don’t see how Armas was ever going to be a plan A option for a team that just did a rebrand and was linked with several better candidates and ended up hiring one in the end.

Seems like someone throwing around nonsense to get a bad negotiator like Ali Curtis to drop his pants and offer a deal.

[OgtheDim]

The DCU journos, including Goff, are adament that DCU & Armas were stuck on "financial terms" before TFC came by.

[ag futbol]

The DCU journos, including Goff, are adament that DCU & Armas were stuck on "financial terms" before TFC came by.
Well, I stand corrected if Goff says it. He’s about as good as they get on MLS beat writing

[MikeForbes]

The TFC admin guy says it will be on YouTube and the website after it wraps up.

[reggie]

The TFC admin guy says it will be on YouTube and the website after it wraps up.
big club cant have a presser live,,,WHAT A JOKE

[Initial B]

^ They're attempting to control the narrative. They will be able to splice out any uncomfortable questions before posting it, so I'm hoping the Journos will call them out if they do that. We can't let them shirk their accountability.

[ag futbol]

https://twitter.com/plattoli/status/1411747124094644230
This provides a pretty good case for firing Curtis and not just Armas. Plans we saw on the field weren’t just coming from the coach.

[Richard]

Yeah that's is why the Bez/Vanney partnership was great, they both understood what each of them had to do and not overstep each other.

[Gringo Starr]

If Ali is willing to bring Jozy back now after Armas has been fired he should be sent packing as well. If he believed that what Jozy did-whatever it was- was so bad that he sided with Armas and agreed to banish a high priced asset than that belief should still be there now. If he isn't sure in his choices or decisions he simply shouldn't be running a team.

[Oldtimer]

If Ali is willing to bring Jozy back now after Armas has been fired he should be sent packing as well. If he believed that what Jozy did-whatever it was- was so bad that he sided with Armas and agreed to banish a high priced asset than that belief should still be there now. If he isn't sure in his choices or decisions he simply shouldn't be running a team.

I'd allow Ali to change his mind.

[Gringo Starr]

Can I ask why? I'm not against Jozy coming back at all but just think that if he changes his mind it just shows a fatal lack of conviction in a key decision making process

I'd allow Ali to change his mind.

[Kamp Berg]

Can I ask why? I'm not against Jozy coming back at all but just think that if he changes his mind it just shows a fatal lack of conviction in a key decision making process

I’m no fan of Curtis, but it may be as simple as he had to back up his coach and now he doesn’t have to.

[craz11]

I knew from day one Ali Curtis was going to bring his Red Bulls Are Shite people with him. And sure enough he did. And sure enough it’s crashed and burned. He should never have been hired in the first place.

[portu]

Can I ask why? I'm not against Jozy coming back at all but just think that if he changes his mind it just shows a fatal lack of conviction in a key decision making process
All depends on how deep this was. If there was an issue with Armas and that’s it, then no reason not to let him back.

[SirBobSaget]

Catching the res conference now. Manning seems agitated, looking up or chugging from his water bottle while Curtis drones on. From body-language 101 Curtis is gone as well.

Manning is likely also on his way out and that is why he is pissed off. As he felt the need to mention he has presided over x number of championships, y number of shields, and z number of playoff appearances. My take is Curtis pulled the whole over his eyes and convinced that Armas and his top down approach was the way forward, only for it to fail spectacularly.

Now Manning who was sitting really pretty 6 months ago is now in danger of being canned. If they had gone with anyone with a decent pedigree and they failed (Blanc, Viera) the backlash would not have gone up stream. But they chose someone with personal connections with a very questionable record and now the pressure is on the

Financially this is a big deal, buying out a 3 year contract after 6 months! Then Manning gives the dud GM a 5 year? extension just after he brings in the worst coach in TFC history? Manning needs to be pissed at himself.

[jloome]

Catching the res conference now. Manning seems agitated, looking up or chugging from his water bottle while Curtis drones on. From body-language 101 Curtis is gone as well.

Manning is likely also on his way out and that is why he is pissed off. As he felt the need to mention he has presided over x number of championships, y number of shields, and z number of playoff appearances. My take is Curtis pulled the whole over his eyes and convinced that Armas and his top down approach was the way forward, only for it to fail spectacularly.

Now Manning who was sitting really pretty 6 months ago is now in danger of being canned. If they had gone with anyone with a decent pedigree and they failed (Blanc, Viera) the backlash would not have gone up stream. But they chose someone with personal connections with a very questionable record and now the pressure is on the

Financially this is a big deal, buying out a 3 year contract after 6 months! Then Manning gives the dud GM a 5 year? extension just after he brings in the worst coach in TFC history? Manning needs to be pissed at himself.

Bingo, for the win. Nailed it.

[Richard]

Where is it confirmed it was 5 years extension? Trying to find it but cant get a solid number, that would be a mind-boggling bad decision.

I guess it was a standard 3 years to go with Armas?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Where is it confirmed it was 5 years extension? Trying to find it but cant get a solid number, that would be a mind-boggling bad decision.

Yeah, it sound impossible to believe that it would be 5 years!
If true, that would be solid reason for the MLSE suits to fire Manning on spot, that would be a proof that he's more damaging for TFC than Ali is...

[Auzzy]

Where is it confirmed it was 5 years extension? Trying to find it but cant get a solid number, that would be a mind-boggling bad decision.

I guess it was a standard 3 years to go with Armas?


Yeah, it sound impossible to believe that it would be 5 years!
If true, that would be solid reason for the MLSE suits to fire Manning on spot, that would be a proof that he's more damaging for TFC than Ali is...

It seems the Curtis extension was only reported as being "multi-year." This article specifically mentions that the club did not reveal the length of the deal: https://www.northwestgeorgianews.com/fieldlevel/toronto-fc-extends-gm-ali-curtis/article_04162d81-4fd8-53e8-8506-6d64fe0f43c4.html

Manning's extension was for five years, wow: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/bill-manning-contract-extension-argos-tfc-1.5955344

[DinamoTFC]

Bingo, for the win. Nailed it.

Summarized everything I was thinking too

[DinamoTFC]

Manning's extension was for five years, wow: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/bill-manning-contract-extension-argos-tfc-1.5955344

This is for Manning. Not too unreasonable as he's running two organizations now.

If it was for Ali I'd be shocked.

[Oldtimer]

At the presser Manning seemed pissed off at Curtis like it 100% was Curtis' fault. Curtis is likely on very thin ice

[Smokecell]

"In a lot of ways, Chris had no chance from the beginning. And that's no fault of his own." - Michael Bradley

Interesting quote here from the captain. Pretty blatant slight at Ali and co.

[RealG-TFC]

I would interpret that as more of a reminder of the Orlando situation I think.

[jabbronies]

At the presser Manning seemed pissed off at Curtis like it 100% was Curtis' fault. Curtis is likely on very thin ice

This is what I got from the presser:

- Manning trusts Ali to do his thing. As any good leader would do. He trusted Ali's judgement in bringing in Armas
- When results started to sour, Manning stepped in and ended it

- Curtis still believes what Armas was selling is the right way to go, but not sure the tactical approach was right
- Manning is skeptical on Armas approach. He knows the tactical approach wasn't right.
- Manning knows what was working before and what's not working now, but his response as to next steps means they need to reevaluate what they originally believed about the post Vanney Era.

They are doubling back and re-planning how to TFC evolves from here.

[Initial B]

"In a lot of ways, Chris had no chance from the beginning. And that's no fault of his own." - Michael Bradley
To me, this doesn't jive with him earlier saying the players backed Armas 1000%. What's going on behind the scenes? I get the feeling we're in for more team implosion.

[jloome]

To me, this doesn't jive with him earlier saying the players backed Armas 1000%. What's going on behind the scenes? I get the feeling we're in for more team implosion.

He's talking about Curtis, not the players, I suspect. Their "1000%" was trying his system. That doesn't mean they personally liked it or were happy with it, just that they were trying to do their jobs.

But the front office made it next to impossible to change systems. It didn't fill the glaring central defense hole, or find another serious goal threat. We have older players, wedded to a slower possession system, without the speed or dynamism to incorporate it -- or the belief, probably, in themselves or their manager, given that it meant abandoning a working, competitive system.

Adjusting to all of that was Curtis' responsibility. And it's quite possible this entire tactical approach was being dictated to Armas from above; it would explain why, on their first couple of losses, they looked so good for a spell reverting to "Vanney ball". We all even speculated whether they were ignoring the coach, but maybe it was the coach listening to his players and ignoring the GM.

After NY and his issues with Marsch, a battle he lost, I don't doubt that perhaps Curtis has control issues, just as Mo clearly did.

If Curtis was dictating the tactical approach, then Armas truly had no chance. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility for going along with it or agreeing to do so. and given that he kept pressing inappropriately in NY, it may be that it was all his call and Bradley is just mad at his teammates. But who knows, could be either really.

[Ultra & Proud]

To me, this doesn't jive with him earlier saying the players backed Armas 1000%. What's going on behind the scenes? I get the feeling we're in for more team implosion.
The full quote from Bradley said for the past 18 months so that was during Vanney time so I believe he was referring to playing in Florida and being away from home for so long. I feel his quote is having a lot read into it that isn't really there.

[Richard]

If Curtis is dictating tactics in any form he should be fired.

You find a coach/manager who has the vision regarding playstyle and personal needed, then the GM(Curtis) does everything to get the players the coach/manager wants.

[Oldtimer]

So Jozy was brought back by Manning, and Curtis had nothing to do with it.

Looks to me like Curtis is no longer the acting GM, regardless of his current title.

Hiring his buddy Armas to be coach in what turned out to be a horribly gone wrong experiment when there has to have been many much more qualified coaches available appears to have shredded his reputation with Manning.

It's still possible that he will stay on more as a scout and capologist, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him depart after Manning decides who is the permanent coach (and it will be Manning who decides that, not Curtis). One thing for sure, Curtis will not be given the same level of trust again.

[Ultra & Proud]

The Ali Curtis Deathwatch is officially on.

[jabbronies]

So Jozy was brought back by Manning, and Curtis had nothing to do with it.

Looks to me like Curtis is no longer the acting GM, regardless of his current title.

Hiring his buddy Armas to be coach in what turned out to be a horribly gone wrong experiment when there has to have been many much more qualified coaches available appears to have shredded his reputation with Manning.

It's still possible that he will stay on more as a scout and capologist, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him depart after Manning decides who is the permanent coach (and it will be Manning who decides that, not Curtis). One thing for sure, Curtis will not be given the same level of trust again.


Just like I said in my prior post - I think Manning stepped in to right this ship. He gave Curtis the benefit of leading the change at TFC and Curtis failed.
So now they are resetting the plan and will try again - but I don't think Curtis will have as much say as he did the first time around.

Is the Curtis death watch on? I don't know because I don't know how much influence he had in landing the following players:
Pozuelo; Omar; Soteldo; Lawrence

Those are 4 very big pieces to our immediate and future success.

Maybe Curtis just becomes a guy to get players. He had his chance at a bigger architect role, but couldn't manage it. The Jozy situation is a part of that failed role IMO.

[Ultra & Proud]

Is the Curtis death watch on? I don't know because I don't know how much influence he had in landing the following players:
Pozuelo; Omar; Soteldo; Lawrence

Those are 4 very big pieces to our immediate and future success.

Maybe Curtis just becomes a guy to get players. He had his chance at a bigger architect role, but couldn't manage it. The Jozy situation is a part of that failed role IMO.
He has done well with player acquisitions albeit he is snail paced. Question is will he stick around if any of this is true and he has sort of an unofficial demotion put on him?