Match Day 12 TFC @ Real Salt Lake - Saturday May 18 3pm - Huh? What Trouble

[OgtheDim]

https://media.giphy.com/media/26vITWe8bqb1S/giphy.gif

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Have at It People

[zamperina]

Doubt Jozy will be ready...
Factor in the high altitude on short rest...
Another L...

[OgtheDim]

TFC Pravda podcast (we listen so you don't have to) seems to be indicating Moor would play on Saturday.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Doubt Jozy will be ready...
Factor in the high altitude on short rest...
Another L...

We drew last match.

[TFC1986]

RSL is a mid tier to lower tier team.
We should minimum draw them. But if Pozo energy levels are still there. Considering this will be game #4 in like 11 days. With travelling.
I'm leaning towards win in this one. Hopefully just using a back 3 for defense.
I think Bono will be in net. So a high scoring game is my guess. Over 3 goals

[Auzzy]

From TFC's & Jozy's Instagram: Jozy & Moor are travelling to Salt Lake City.

[MightyDM]

poz rests. Chapman gets the start.

[Section_105]

poz rests. Chapman gets the start.

you misspelled Delgado ;)

[OgtheDim]

Journos indicating Mavinga out for 7-10 with a quad strain suffered Wednesday (he was going slow towards the end).

Endoh made the trip though so alls well that ends....

[Bobo]

With Mavinga and Ciman out, it's likely we'll see a return of the four-back. DeLeon looked so uncomfortable at LWB on Wednesday, hopefully he'll find some inspiration at RM again. Moor and Poz need to play, TFC have a full week of rest after tomorrow.

[pfk]

Journos indicating Mavinga out for 7-10 with a quad strain suffered Wednesday (he was going slow towards the end).

Endoh made the trip though so alls well that ends....

Hopefully Mavinga will be back soon after the week's rest.

I see what you did there with Endoh. :)

[reggie]

Journos indicating Mavinga out for 7-10 with a quad strain suffered Wednesday (he was going slow towards the end).

Endoh made the trip though so alls well that ends....

if he plays i wonder which end of the field he will play:hump:

[stegosaurus]

if he plays i wonder which end of the field he will play:hump:

The game is open to the public, right? Probably the rear end in that case.

[Fort York Redcoat]

journos indicating mavinga out for 7-10 with a quad strain suffered wednesday (he was going slow towards the end).

Endoh made the trip though so alls well that ends....

SEVEN to TEN WHAT?

Days? Weeks? Games? Months?

[stegosaurus]

SEVEN to TEN WHAT?

Days? Weeks? Games? Months?

Decades.

[Chubbs]

SEVEN to TEN WHAT?

Days? Weeks? Games? Months?
Days.

[Mikmacdo]

Dunn is on the bench for tfc2 tonight. I wonder if he will be called up for tomorrow with ciman and mavinga hurt.

[stegosaurus]

Dunn is on the bench for tfc2 tonight. I wonder if he will be called up for tomorrow with ciman and mavinga hurt.

I assume someone is going to be called up, but I hope he isn’t thrown in at a bad moment again.

[Grandia]

1-2 win

[portu]

Decades.

Hahaha

[Fort York Redcoat]

Days.

Back for Vancouver. Misses a couple matches. NOT another replacement worry. For most. Got it.

[ensco]

Hello?

*echo ... echo .... echo*

[Red CB Toronto]

Hello?

*echo ... echo .... echo*

Figure with it being a nice day out and the Canadian women down at BMO this afternoon people are away from their keyboards ( :

[Red CB Toronto]

Jozy on the bench.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D63gzWWUcAIsT5Z.jpg

[OgtheDim]

Morgan sighting...Jozy on the bench.

[Red CB Toronto]

Morgan sighting...Jozy on the bench.

Figure Jozy will get at least 20-30 minutes today.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

4-1 for the good guys.
1 from Poz, 1 from Oso, and JHams with a brace.

:scarf::flare::drum::canada:

:scarf::flare::drum::canada:

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:hide:

[MightyDM]

We never win there. It’s like Columbus used to be

[MightyDM]

Best possible lineup absent Jozy really. And I like Morgan Morrow together ( would prefer a winger but)

[ensco]

We never win there. It’s like Columbus used to be

Maybe we should bring Sam Reynolds back...

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2007/07/04/toronto_fc_beats_real_salt_lake_21.html

[Mikmacdo]

Chapman deserves a start over Morgan.

[barticusz]

Mavinga injured?

[OgtheDim]

FWIW, Beckerman is out injured, so not ex-dirty hippie to break Poz's knees today.

But they will kick him all dang game - young ref too but RSL already has a reputation that has gained them a lot of cards.

[OgtheDim]

Chapman deserves a start over Morgan.

Not the same position. Chapman only starts if Oso or Poz are sitting.

[Richard]

FWIW, Beckerman is out injured, so not ex-dirty hippie to break Poz's knees today.

But they will kick him all dang game - young ref too but RSL already has a reputation that has gained them a lot of cards.

That dude is still playing? Thought he retired by now.

[Mikmacdo]

Not the same position. Chapman only starts if Oso or Poz are sitting.

Morrow is playing midfield

[OgtheDim]

Vic Rauter - anybody got a Sky stream

[ag futbol]

That’s just not good enough from Hamilton. You won’t get many chances like that in this league. Don’t expect to take 3 touches and finish

[samuraizero]

anyone got a source? Have a decent ish one but the audio is streamed twice somehow

[Oldtimer]

Drew Moor saves TFC twice. Could have been 2 against. He's still key.

[ag futbol]

That’s just not good enough from Hamilton. You won’t get many chances like that in this league. Don’t expect to take 3 touches and finish
Good make up play there with the first touch to Poz

[samuraizero]

Drew Moor saves TFC twice. Could have been 2 against. He's still key.

now we just need to replace nepotism err nephew with someone who can support him

[Oldtimer]

anyone got a source? Have a decent ish one but the audio is streamed twice somehow

The TSN paid feed has the same problem.

[OgtheDim]

Moving the ball around well - Hamilton can lay it off but can't shoot

[Auzzy]

Vic Rauter - anybody got a Sky stream

I'm watching CTV OTA. Big mistake on the audio: they're quietly piping in the US audio feed, in addition to the Cdn audio feed.

Pretty strong start for TFC. But I thought that Morgan would be the LB in a back 4. Looks like he's actually part of a back 3. That's worrisome for me.

[jloome]

Good make up play there with the first touch to Poz

He has all the tools, it's down to the decisions.

But I wonder how shitty our position-specific coaching has been that his movement off the ball is so limited, and his quick release is so rare, and he tries to hold off stronger players.

These are correctable issues. He has the stuff that you can't teach.

Some guys are just dense, however. I'm not saying that's the case with Hamilton, but I remember a still-involved national team coach telling me twenty years ago about a Canadian university player I favored who was in the A-League. I asked him why he hadn't been picked up by a bigger club given his first touch and blazing speed and he just tapped his temple and said "ten-cent head. He can't learn, no matter how hard you try."

Some players its arrogance, some its intelligence, I guess.

But I get the sense with him and our club's past egregious record of letting talent go that it's coaching.

[GBV]

Vic Rauter - anybody got a Sky stream

I would take him over Luke Wileman any day of the week/month/year.
Now if we can get Caldy out of there, we'd really be talking ....

[Voodooman]

Ugh Zavaleta can't be missing that

[Oldtimer]

Their player does what Hamilton failed at.

[OgtheDim]

Two things on that

a) Hamilton forgot it was a throw

b) that was the WORST thing I've ever seen from Zavs

[Auzzy]

FFS guys.

RSL know they can let TFC play around with the ball, and score a couple of quick goals in between. Plus TFC will get very tired.

[samuraizero]

Two things on that

a) Hamilton forgot it was a throw

b) that was the WORST thing I've ever seen from Zavs


And that's saying a lot considering how many bad things we see from Zav. He just shouldn't be on the field.

[ag futbol]

He has all the tools, it's down to the decisions.

But I wonder how shitty our position-specific coaching has been that his movement off the ball is so limited, and his quick release is so rare, and he tries to hold off stronger players.

These are correcetable issues. He has the stuff that you can't teach.
Agreed he has some good tools. I think some of this is about rust and game experience. He’s played up top on an island and the team at times rarely gets him a ball for anything other than a final chance. They need to bring him into the game more for hold up play (which is much improved) or just to get a feel of things.



Terrible there from both Morgan and Zaveleta. Just bad from both players.

[Oldtimer]

I just hope they don't give up any more before Jozy comes on.

[Auzzy]

BTW there are no centre backs on the bench...

[ag futbol]

SomeBut I get the sense with him and our club's past egregious record of letting talent go that it's coaching.
Yeah, I would say Vanney doesn’t seem to develop confidence in his younger players. He really forces them into his system rather than look at their individual attributes.

Maybe it’s best for Hamilton and TFC to go their separate ways. Either that or he needs a new coach to develop his play.

Just seems like neither party is satisfied with what they are getting out of the other right now

[Oldtimer]

By Hamilton's age, you might some improvements but he's not going to become a completely different player, no matter who coaches him.

FWIW Vanney was a noted youth coach, what he didn't have before TFC was first team experience.

[ag futbol]

Very nice goal but our guys look demotivated, I must say. We are not s top side but some of this isn’t even about talent.

[notthesun]

Embarrassing. Our good start to the season has been completely wasted and it's only going to get worse until the summer and Curtis has a chance to bring in players he should've already brought in. This is the thinnest TFC squad in 5 years.

[Oldtimer]

Oh Well, the first five minutes of this game was fun.

[OgtheDim]

Delgado just let him walk by....that was pathetic.

[Auzzy]

Argh FFS utter garbage.

[Yohan]

helluva goal but TFC midfield just let Saucedo walk to a shooting position with little pressure

[tfcfans]

No Altidore playing 80+ minutes a game, no other player signed who can score at this level means a lot of bad results at least until the July transfer window opens and another scorer “magically” appears....those 4 games during the Gold Cup - 3 tough away games and Atlanta at home is looking at 1-3 points (out of 12), at best, in my opinion —- if we are still within 3 points of seventh place by the July 13th game against Montreal, I’ll be shocked.....

[jloome]

When was the last time a TFC player ran over and hugged Vanney for believing in them? I mean, I Assume Zavs does it on weekends....

[ag futbol]

I’d say of our players right now:

1/3 look motivated / capable.
1/3 look like something is off.
1/3 look absolutely hopeless.

[Oldtimer]

RSL predictably clogging the centre and hacking TFC players down. TFC has no answer and keeps trying to cross it in from the wing and failing.

Play it through the middle please.

[Auzzy]

TFC players almost always get scared and stop to look around when they reach the 18-yard box on the attack.

[ag futbol]

“We have cap problems”

Well that’s rich considering we also have more budget than 90% of the MLS teams out there. Maybe we should get better at scouting ?!?

[Auzzy]

RSL predictably clogging the centre and hacking TFC players down. TFC has no answer and keeps trying to cross it in from the wing and failing.

Play it through the middle please.

About 8 crosses (if you can call them that) have gone straight to #15 on RSL.

At least this ref is calling it a bit tighter than others recently, more fouls whistled & one yellow already.

[OgtheDim]

Its not like RSL is all that good.

But we look like a team playing in sand.

[ag futbol]

Its not like RSL is all that good.

But we look like a team playing in sand.
I would say a team that can’t get out of bed. More than fatigued here, I think.

[Oldtimer]

Zavaleta can't head the ball.

Wileman saying TFC should pick up Plata. I agree. Curtis?

[jloome]

Maybe we should tactically adapt to the nature of the league and differing talent levels. The healthy roster of the treble year was clearly an aberration in a league with so much travel and so many differing playing conditions

[OgtheDim]

So we have the ball heading towards their 18 on the right & NOBODY IS RUNNING AT THE BOX. People just pacing without actually running. No wonder people defend us easily, nobody is making moves. EVERY other team in the league at least has forwards who can run - we got nobody but Altidore & Pozeulo willing to do this.

[daner90]

Woof

[Mikmacdo]

I fell asleep watching this garbage team. Curtis failed not signing anyone.

[azorean]

Hard to watch......

[Gringo Starr]

This is 2018 all over again

[OgtheDim]

This is 2018 all over again

More like 2013

[azorean]

More like 2013

Yes, just ugly

[PizzaEatingYeti]

After 2-0 I started going back and forth between this one and Pacific FC vs York 9.
Sorry, but that one is a lot more agreable to watch, even if the camera angle is kinda shit.

[Auzzy]

Vanney often seems like a massive thickhead. I don't think Hamilton has been awful this season, especially compared to the past. But it's obvious to everyone that too much is being expected of him. He's constantly bracketed by two huge RSL defenders so no cross ever reaches him. Or when he receives the ball up front and tries to hold it up, he has average but not exceptional strength, and nobody to lay off to quickly.

FFS Vanney has to be realistic based on the players we have available; should have started with Boyd and Hamilton together up top. I'm not convinced with Boyd either, but they didn't look too awful together vs. DCU. However you could also see that they have almost never practiced or played together. Each of them had no idea where the other was, and sometimes even ran into each other.

And sorry guys I'm totally not convinced with Osorio's TAM deal either; let's see what the final number is when the salary list is released. That's one reason we don't have much cap space. He's often invisible, even when he's not banished to the wing.

[OgtheDim]

Kristian Jack has it right.

No desire on this team to do what it takes to win. The epitome of that is Delgado - I'm done with him. He's bench strength for me right now. He's not hard enough to be a DM, he's not fast enough or good enough with his feet to be an attacking threat. He's a midfield shuttler & simply not good enough anymore.

Like seriously, he's a DM and he GIVES UP on a player going across the middle?!?!?!

And, I'm done with Zavs as a 4th CB - sooner we get another CB, the sooner he can sit.

And I'm this close to being done with Auro - has no clue in defence and 90% of the time STOPS the play dead on the right to play the ball back or post up his man.

[azorean]

After 2-0 I started going back and forth between this one and Pacific FC vs York 9.
Sorry, but that one is a lot more agreable to watch, even if the camera angle is kinda shit.

Don't blame you, worse than Good or Bad, this team is just mehhhhhh, but today they are awful.

[Oldtimer]

Can Jozy and a formation change get us a point?

[jloome]

He has faith in the wrong players. Maybe he likes the ones who never talk back or complain. That’s not always a good thing.

[Auzzy]

And who allows our defenders to play that far forward repeatedly, on a huge field at high altitude, when we're missing some of our regular defenders, including Mavinga who has the best recovery speed? Does Vanney tell them to play that way? If not why can't he exert any control over that? Why is Moor organizing that way?

I even saw some of our CBs halfway into the opposing half at times.

[OgtheDim]

I have no clue what a back pass is anymore.

[Oldtimer]

Maybe he likes the ones who never talk back or complain.

Like Bradley? I don't think that's how he chooses.

[ag futbol]

I have no clue what a back pass is anymore.
For Marky I think that’s just called “passing”

[Auzzy]

I have no clue what a back pass is anymore.

I missed it, when/where was this an issue?

[jloome]

We’re tactically predictable and have been since late 2017. With a 20M healthy first team that didn’t matter except at CCL level. But we no longer have that luxury.

[Oldtimer]

Without Moor it would have been 6-0.

[ag futbol]

We’re tactically predictable and have been since late 2017. With a 20M healthy first team that didn’t matter except at CCL level. But we no longer have that luxury.
Vanney is Arsen Wenger, and not the version that had Henry on his team either

[OgtheDim]

I missed it, when/where was this an issue?

Delgado pass towards Jozy was then played back by an RSL guy that, to me, was a clear back pass that Rimando picked up.

[jloome]

Delgado pass towards Jozy was then played back by an RSL guy that, to me, was a clear back pass that Rimando picked up.

THeyve been very lax with that
For a couple of seasons now. I don’t really understand it.

[Oldtimer]

It looks like TFC has already conceded. What's wrong? Getting used to losing? Exhaustion? Is this something Vanney can fix?

[ag futbol]

This team looks like someone’s going to take a red or we’re just going to combust.

[jloome]

It looks like TFC has already conceded. What's wrong? Getting used to losing? Exhaustion? Is this something Vanney can fix?

I know doing nothing right now
Ain’t going to work

[azorean]

Managers are hired to be fired, as they say, Vanney gonna get some heat soon. Deservedly or not, efforts like this ..and.....something has to give.

[Oldtimer]

I think a foul should have been called on that third goal.

[Voodooman]

Well the wheels have fell off completely in this one now.

That's only one game we miss Pozo now eh?

[SoccMan2]

Keep taking our money MLSE this is a fucken joke fucken embarrassing!!!! Another thing where are the bloody fans in this league every time I watch an away game or a game not involving TFC the stands are always empty but yet this league keeps expanding!

[Oldtimer]

Now we'll lose Pozo (and probably the next game) too.

[Yohan]

lol. And Pozo decided that he needs an extra game of rest

[jloome]

Did I see that reverse replay Wrong or was that harsh?

[OgtheDim]

So the SJE game is now going to be interesting.

[ag futbol]

I was pretty Critical of Curtis after the last few games and while the roster is inexcusably bad, I fear nobody is motivated to play for Vanney anymore either.

I think it's time for us to put a bullet in some of the remaining pieces of the 2017 squad as well, sadly.

[Oldtimer]

Keep taking our money MLSE this is a fucken joke fucken embarrassing!!!!

Don't worry, a couple of players are coming in a week or two. Ugh.

[Auzzy]

Why the fuck does Moor stop running before that last goal? Of course Morrow should have been less aggressive, should have stayed on his feet. But Moor just stopped, he could have pressured the RSL attacker and made the goal harder.

That Pozuelo 2nd yellow was so obviously coming from a mile away.

All of our leaders have sucked today: Moor, Bradley, now Pozuelo (as well as the rest of the team). Maybe Altidore can show us something.

[azorean]

Caldwell, " bad day at office, prepare for next game" f-off with that....team stinks right now

[jimiv]

yikes, this team has no cohesion and somebody needs to take responsibility.

[Oldtimer]

I was pretty Critical of Curtis after the last few games and while the roster is inexcusably bad, I fear nobody is motivated to play for Vanney anymore either.

I think it's time for us to put a bullet in some of the remaining pieces of the 2017 squad as well, sadly.

Teardown and rebuild. But is Curtis even remotely up to the task?

[stevep]

Keep taking our money MLSE this is a fucken joke fucken embarrassing!!!!

not mine, after the pozo foul selling my tickets next week game

maybe some sucker will buy them?

[Gringo Starr]

Vanney is making GVW look like a genius

[ag futbol]

Teardown and rebuild. But is Curtis even remotely up to the task?
That's the big question. When your grand ideas are DeLeon and Boyd, I have serious questions about whether you're fit to be manager.

We focus on the DP / TAM signings but quite seriously the difference between us in 2015-2016-2017 was the quality of the supporting cast (notwithstanding VV).

[OgtheDim]

This team needs more Men

[ag futbol]

Vanney is making GVW look like a genius
Considering only of them is currently working i'm not so sure.

[azorean]

I was pretty Critical of Curtis after the last few games and while the roster is inexcusably bad, I fear nobody is motivated to play for Vanney anymore either.

I think it's time for us to put a bullet in some of the remaining pieces of the 2017 squad as well, sadly.

Yes ! Including our dps, we got one who scores , but is basically crippled, injury soon incoming, another who is all heart but it is not working, change is good....

[ag futbol]

This team needs more Men
It needs more pride and more playing for the shirt / city / club etc...

This is what's really struck me lately, nobody seems to take it as a hit to their ego when we get embarrassed like this. Needs to be better.

[jloome]

I was pretty Critical of Curtis after the last few games and while the roster is inexcusably bad, I fear nobody is motivated to play for Vanney anymore either.

I think it's time for us to put a bullet in some of the remaining pieces of the 2017 squad as well, sadly.

Our next manager has to tick ALL the boxes however including motivating and equal respect across the roster. We keep seeing this old school ‘hardljne’ traditional skipper type and we never try to hire the motivational Tata Martinez or Matthias Almeyda South American type. The only other coach we had with a winning record was Cummins, who wasn’t ready but at least had the respect of his whole squad.

[Oldtimer]

Now watch Plata score. We need the TFC curse to make this afternoon of disaster complete.

[Auzzy]

Vanney is making GVW look like a genius


Considering only of them is currently working i'm not so sure.

I would say, they're probably both getting paid for not working much...

[tfcfans]

Good thing I sold off my SJ tickets — I’ll go on June 7th in the hopes of seeing an actual game where both Jozy and Poz play together for 80+ minutes (how often has that happened this year?), and then maybe again in July when everyone comes back and our transfer window savior arrives (ha ha ha).....on that note, anyone need 4 tickets to see Atlanta on June 26th?

We will be 10th or worse in the East by July 4th, not a doubt in my mind, and without another scorer signed in the transfer window we will finish that way, which is an embarrassment.....

[Oldtimer]

Vanney did great in strategy with a good team, but he has trouble working out a pragmatic strategy for a mediocre team, which is what we have.

[OgtheDim]

It needs more pride and more playing for the shirt / city / club etc...

This is what's really struck me lately, nobody seems to take it as a hit to their ego when we get embarrassed like this. Needs to be better.

That's kinda what I meant - the "I give a shit" quota isn't high enough.

And the brain trust's "We'll be OK" mantra after the trade deadline is exactly what we were hearing a year ago in the middle of the season that we were promised would not happen again.


This isn't injuries - its the inability of some players to put in an effort.

[Oldtimer]

Hamilton actually shot! Shocking.

[ag futbol]

Yes Vic Rauter it's all about positioning, we heard you the first 12x

[Ultra & Proud]

I was wrong earlier. I said either we need to fire Vanney or turnover half the squad. Now I see the only hope is to do both.

We need an attitude adjustment and mental reset.

[Auzzy]

Our next manager has to tick ALL the boxes however including motivating and equal respect across the roster. We keep seeing this old school ‘hardljne’ traditional skipper type and we never try to hire the motivational Tata Martinez or Matthias Almeyda South American type. The only other coach we had with a winning record was Cummins, who wasn’t ready but at least had the respect of his whole squad.

I agree a new coach would need to work with motivation and respect.

But Vanney isn't hardline at all, almost the complete opposite. VdW probably the first & only time he really put his foot down.

[ag futbol]

That's kinda what I meant - the "I give a shit" quota isn't high enough.

And the brain trust's "We'll be OK" mantra after the trade deadline is exactly what we were hearing a year ago in the middle of the season that we were promised would not happen again.


This isn't injuries - its the inability of some players to put in an effort.
For sure, that's what i thought you were getting at too.

And agreed, we still play with an arrogance of a championship team when those days have long since past.

[jloome]

I would say, they're probably both getting paid for not working much...

We’re lacking depth but not this bad. Played slump lime this when there’s internal conflict. Something’s going on between Curtis and Vanney factions, I’d bank on it, and players think it’s affecting their ability to do the job.

Remember when the
Media occasionally asked tough questions about whether internal politics were distracting players? Me neither.

[azorean]

It needs more pride and more playing for the shirt / city / club etc...

This is what's really struck me lately, nobody seems to take it as a hit to their ego when we get embarrassed like this. Needs to be better.

They complain about charter flights ! , salaries in MLS still better than 90 per cent of world leagues I am sure....play for shirt?

[ag futbol]

I agree a new coach would need to work with motivation and respect.

But Vanney isn't hardline at all, almost the complete opposite. VdW probably the first & only time he really put his foot down.
He isn't hardline but he comes across as cold and matter-of-fact. His assignments for lesser players really aren't motivating in the slightest.

[OgtheDim]

Well at least Westberg is good.

[Oldtimer]

We’re lacking depth but not this bad. Played slump lime this when there’s internal conflict. Something’s going on between Curtis and Vanney factions, I’d bank on it, and players think it’s affecting their ability to do the job.



That's completely possible and is better explanation. I keep wondering if Curtis has set up Vanney to fail so that he can justify replacing an MLS Cup winning coach.

[Oldtimer]

Well at least Westberg is good.

Much better than Bono at the moment. He's the best player on the field.

[Ultra & Proud]

Internal conflict isn't to blame at all.

What we're seeing now is identical to what we saw that year with Bez but we rode with the excuse of CCL hangover.

Laziness, arrogance, bad habits, acceptance of failure, etc.

It's the treble hangover and it will last until we jettison a good chunk of the 2017 players that remain.

[ag futbol]

They complain about charter flights ! , salaries in MLS still better than 90 per cent of world leagues I am sure....play for shirt?
Leaving that aside for a second, cause people are motivated / demotivated by more than just pay, wouldn't a professional want to defend their reputation which they've put so much work into? Mailing it in like this looks poor on everyone.

Bradley is a sad-sack right now. If he keeps this up i want no part of it, not even at low TAM levels.

[Auzzy]

He isn't hardline but he comes across as cold and matter-of-fact. His assignments for lesser players really aren't motivating in the slightest.

Oh I totally agree with that.

[jloome]

He isn't hardline but he comes across as cold and matter-of-fact. His assignments for lesser players really aren't motivating in the slightest.

This exactly . He reminds me of old-school
My way of the highway baseball managers, and I genuinely think he has issues with Canadian and European personalities. He wants a machine-like American approach to he roster. I’m not saying he’s wrong in an ideal situation but we aren’t in one, in terms of roster balance, and I think you can get those types of gritty performances out of others even if it’s less natural to them than being more of an individual.

[Auzzy]

Internal conflict isn't to blame at all.

What we're seeing now is identical to what we saw that year with Bez but we rode with the excuse of CCL hangover.

Laziness, arrogance, bad habits, acceptance of failure, etc.

It's the treble hangover and it will last until we jettison a good chunk of the 2017 players that remain.

How the heck would you know internal conflict isn't to blame at all?

[Ultra & Proud]

Yup Bradley one of the 2017 squad that needs to go. Him & Vanney out first.

[ag futbol]

I wonder if Curtis looks at this squad and rates a chuck of the young players more highly than Vanney does. (not a defence of Curtis, just a thought).

Regardless, we have to start getting more out of our own homegrown players if we want to keep up with the rest of the league. Maybe that will never work for Hamilton, Chapman, etc. but they should be roundly shot if they waste the current crop of players we have at the academy.

[stevep]

Internal conflict isn't to blame at all.

What we're seeing now is identical to what we saw that year with Bez but we rode with the excuse of CCL hangover.

Laziness, arrogance, bad habits, acceptance of failure, etc.

It's the treble hangover and it will last until we jettison a good chunk of the 2017 players that remain.

players that gotta go:

auro
zavalletta
delgado
morgan
maybe even Morrow,

only good players, jozy, pozo, bradley, oso, ciman, mavinga, moor



rest are below average,

[Ultra & Proud]

Forgot to quote but in regards to the internal conflict view: Because we've been doing this same shit for a year and a half already. It didn't start with Curtis.

We're doing exactly what we did last season. Exactly. 100% identical issues and problems. Nothing fixed. If we had new problems then sure but this has been here long enough to say the blame has to fall on Vanney. And on the leaders of the squad as well.

[DeRo2015]

What a fucking horrible effort that was.

[Auzzy]

Almost the classic TFC alumni goal.

[Oldtimer]

Does anyone believe that Zavaleta would be on this team if a new coach takes over?

[ag futbol]

Because we've been doing this same shit for a year and a half already. It didn't start with Curtis.

We're doing exactly what we did last season. Exactly. 100% identical issues and problems. Nothing fixed. If we had new problems then sure but this has been here long enough to say the blame has to fall on Vanney.
It's a chicken-and-egg problem. The roster has not been in a good condition for about a year and Curtis didn't even come close to addressing its issues.

Vanney is legitimately hamstrung by the lack of talent in several areas. But, he's also taking the approach of some stuff-shirt professor, who is stuck in theoretical problems rather than dealing with the practicalities of what resources he has at his disposal.

[DinamoTFC]

Vanney is making GVW look like a genius

I've been 100% pro vanney and against vdw in that argument. But man vanneys is proving us wrong just like vdw said he would. Didn't think that was possible.

[Oldtimer]

Nearly ended up with the TFC curse being activated.

[stevep]

I was going to post this after DC game.
I thought after the DC game the team would just give up.
The reason I thought they would give up is because they know in their hearts and minds that they are just not good enough.
The cold hard realization that they are not good enough has set in.

[Ultra & Proud]

players that gotta go:

auro
zavalletta
delgado
morgan
maybe even Morrow,

only good players, jozy, pozo, bradley, oso, ciman, mavinga, moor



rest are below average,
I agree with your gotta go list but Auro could be bench depth. Can't dump 3 FBs in one go even though we probably should.

[Auzzy]

Well the CWNT, and the women's Champions League final, were both fun to watch today...

[DinamoTFC]

Vanney did great in strategy with a good team, but he has trouble working out a pragmatic strategy for a mediocre team, which is what we have.

Correct.

[Ultra & Proud]

Does anyone believe that Zavaleta would be on this team if a new coach takes over?

I can't believe he is a MLS player period.

[Oldtimer]

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. The roster has not been in a good condition for about a year and Curtis didn't even come close to addressing its issues.

Vanney is legitimately hamstrung by the lack of talent in several areas. But, he's also taking the approach of some stuff-shirt professor, who is stuck in theoretical problems rather than dealing with the practicalities of what resources he has at his disposal.

Agreed. It's both a depleted roster and a coach that isn't flexible enough to play a game that matches his players admittedly mediocre capabilities.

[jazzy]

Keep taking our money MLSE this is a fucken joke fucken embarrassing!!!! Another thing where are the bloody fans in this league every time I watch an away game or a game not involving TFC the stands are always empty but yet this league keeps expanding!

notmuch for the fans right now , yes they fake making money by giving the cheap owners their share of the expansion money , and don’t give a damn about the questionable quality drain and those empty seats . Watch even here many people will not be happy with this Manning , Curtis and Vanney shitshow . TO is sports market that doesn’t act kindly to bullshit from mgmt .

[ag futbol]

players that gotta go:

auro
zavalletta
delgado
morgan
maybe even Morrow,

only good players, jozy, pozo, bradley, oso, ciman, mavinga, moor



rest are below average,
I think Bradley has to go too, TBH. If it's a cultural change we are looking for, Bradley's continued presence holds that back.

I see Morgan as sort of a non-issue. He really should be a third choice LB / utility guy. He's mainly here as an alumni. There's really nothing to gain by cutting him, we should just be using him less. The fact he's on the field should just signal the game is over and there's nothing to play for.

[FootBallAZ]

Lol wow.
Manning is arrogant.
Ali isn't the right person

Auro
Zavleta
Delgado
Morrow

Need to go.
Mavinga is so underrated to TFCs defense.

Hamilton at best should be off the bench. Everyone looked exhausted.

Red card was weak, didn't see the first half . Was pozo already on a yellow ? Does this mean sanjose gets it easy again without one of our top players available .

[Davenport]

Pathetic effort. Most of this squad are not good enough and they need to start again. A very selfish play by the Spaniard.

They should spend a bit more time on football rather than grooming to be in GQ.

[Auzzy]

Oh well it's been real guys.

I don't think waiting for mid-season reinforcements was a great plan at all. But if there has to be a rebuild, better to start at midseason, and start thinking about next year.

[Red4ever]

I'm blown away by how poor the team has been.

But some of these ideas on here are even poorer. Let's lose guys like Delgado and Zavaletta before we start cutting everybody.

[Ultra & Proud]

I was going to post this after DC game.
I thought after the DC game the team would just give up.
The reason I thought they would give up is because they know in their hearts and minds that they are just not good enough.
The cold hard realization that they are not good enough has set in.
There are a lot of MLS teams with less talent playing better than us.

We have no legit 'plan B' gameplan. Unless the opponent is stupid like NYCFC & Orlando, teams know the formula to ruin us and we just keep 'playing our game' and fail over and over. Compared to every other MLS team I watched this season, we have the worst shape and too many players out of position per match. Basically everything points to either poor coaching or players just not listening. Either way, blow it up.

[69Chevy396]

I didn’t watch this game. However, I did view the Poz redcard foul. In slow motion, it is clear that he didn’t touch the player.

[OgtheDim]

The East is so pathetic, it won't take that much to get into the playoffs. Well it would if we didn't give up goals that make every body turn into a Zombie for the rest of the game.

That charter plane ride home is going to be REALLY long. Something has to change in the giving a shit department.

The good thing is we have a core of decent guys to build on

Jozy
Pozuelo
Bradley
Moor
Mavinga
Ciman
Osorio
Westberg
Morrow (he was the best guy out there today people)
DeLeon


The rest are backups.

[Davenport]

The East is so pathetic, it won't take that much to get into the playoffs. Well it would if we didn't give up goals that make every body turn into a Zombie for the rest of the game.

That charter plane ride home is going to be REALLY long. Something has to change in the giving a shit department.

The good thing is we have a core of decent guys to build on

Jozy
Pozuelo
Bradley
Mavinga
Osorio



I've adjusted the list for you.

[ag futbol]

There are a lot of MLS teams with less talent playing better than us.

We have no legit 'plan B' gameplan. Unless the opponent is stupid like NYCFC & Orlando, teams know the formula to ruin us and we just keep 'playing our game' and fail over and over. Compared to every other MLS team I watched this season, we have the worst shape and too many players out of position per match. Basically everything points to either poor coaching or players just not listening. Either way, blow it up.
Part of me wonders if during the past few games what we saw wasn't Vanney continuing to hammer away on some tactically ambitious plan. The guys aren't up to it and in typical Vanney fashion the message after is "we talked about" and "we're short in a few areas".

And so for someone who is legitimately trying their ass off (but maybe not succeeding) they take that as a punch in the gut. They know they didn't execute and want to come back better but it's just setback after setback. So at some point you're either emotionally drained and ineffective or you think to yourself "fuck this guy and his bullshit, he's sending us out there to fail"

[azorean]

The East is so pathetic, it won't take that much to get into the playoffs. Well it would if we didn't give up goals that make every body turn into a Zombie for the rest of the game.

That charter plane ride home is going to be REALLY long. Something has to change in the giving a shit department.

The good thing is we have a core of decent guys to build on

Jozy
Pozuelo
Bradley
Moor
Mavinga
Ciman
Osorio
Westberg
Morrow (he was the best guy out there today people)
DeLeon


The rest are backups.


This group of 'good ' players keeps getting repeated, but no player on this team is immune to criticism right now, especially after efforts like today, and quite frankly , this is not a 'today' thing. Something is not working, and it ain't just the scrubs fault....

[azorean]

Exactly. It's not that dire.
We have some really good players.
We just need 3 good starters

Come on....

[ag futbol]

If you want to keep Morrow on the roster you need serious offensive firepower in front of him on the flank. Defensively he's solid. Other teams avoid that flank like the plague (also helps that our weakest links are all on the right side of the field).

But that said, he just can't keep anybody honest on the attacking side. They often just stand off him and allow the cross, usually hits the fist defender anyway.

[OgtheDim]

If you want to keep Morrow on the roster you need serious offensive firepower in front of him on the flank. Defensively he's solid. Other teams avoid that flank like the plague (also helps that our weakest links are all on the right side of the field).

But that said, he just can't keep anybody honest on the attacking side. They often just stand off him and allow the cross, usually hits the fist defender anyway.

Agreed - which is why we needed that left sided attacker.


The idea that this team was good enough with what it had to stay close until July just floors me given the same thing happened last year but insert "'we get everybody back from injuries" for "until July".

[magmadragon]

“We have cap problems”

Well that’s rich considering we also have more budget than 90% of the MLS teams out there. Maybe we should get better at scouting ?!?

This messaging from them is total horseshit. Just say we are going cheap and call it a day. We have tons of garber bucks available to us.

[Davenport]

If you want to keep Morrow on the roster you need serious offensive firepower in front of him on the flank. Defensively he's solid. Other teams avoid that flank like the plague (also helps that our weakest links are all on the right side of the field).

But that said, he just can't keep anybody honest on the attacking side. They often just stand off him and allow the cross, usually hits the fist defender anyway.

1/ What does "serious offensive firepower in front of him on the flank" have anything to do with whether he can defend or not?

2/ "Defensively he's solid". No he's not...see their 3rd goal ? He is far better going forward then defending.

3/ "Other teams avoid that flank like the plague". Maybe when Mavinga is playing left centre back, but not Morrow.

4/ "But that said, he just can't keep anybody honest on the attacking side. They often just stand off him and allow the cross, usually hits the fist defender anyway" Not sure what you mean there.

[jazzy]

Saw some great passing , and energetic football today , yup went to the woman’s friendly vs Mexico ....after watching the 2nd half of TFC ......we’re back to can we miss a few games

[ag futbol]

1/ What does "serious offensive firepower in front of him on the flank" have anything to do with whether he can defend or not?

2/ "Defensively he's solid". No he's not...see their 3rd goal ? He is far better going forward then defending.

3/ "Other teams avoid that flank like the plague". Maybe when Mavinga is playing left centre back, but not Morrow.

4/ "But that said, he just can't keep anybody honest on the attacking side. They often just stand off him and allow the cross, usually hits the fist defender anyway" Not sure what you mean there.
1/ It's a tradeoff. Fullbacks need to attack and defend at this stage in MLS. He is only doing one side but he does that one side well. The fact we attack more down the right side than the left is even picked up by statistical programs like whoscored. So if you want balanced play down that flank you need to have someone who is more capable playing in front of him. Considering our obvious need for another goal scorer and wingers, having someone who can play as a left-sided FW seems like a slam dunk.

2/ disagree. That's one play, he has a longer track record of being a stable defensive presence.

3/ also disagree. Regardless of who is in the middle they pick on Auro far more frequently.

4/ Just watch how teams play Morrow when he receives the ball out wide. Do they ever bring over a second player to help defend him? (they do not) How much space is between him and the first defender? (quite a bit because they have no fear of anything he can do with that space) Is Morrow able to quickly receive a pass and move it forward to his teammates in a dangerous position? (he is not, unless you put it to him on a platter he is among the slowest players on this team at moving the ball)

To each their own i guess...

[stegosaurus]

I didn’t watch the game because I had other things to do, but I don’t think I’ll even bother watching it now.

There were a lot of people saying the issues with this team were very superficial and that we’d continue the amazing start we had. Goals for PPG Osorio stepping up blah blah blah.

Look who was right?

It isn’t Moor that made our defense work, it was a combination of Moor and Mavinga. We don’t get 70+% possession and 30+ shots against a team that is actually attempting to do something.

This squad isn’t a TAM winger away from the cup and they don’t even look good with the entire starting XI minus one player.

We won our cup at the right time, because this team isn’t very good currently, people are still getting injured constantly, and our FO has struggled to make even simple moves. Vanney isn’t adapting to what we have. There have been and still are clear mentality issues.

The FO has let us down (while lying to us).

Vanney is letting us down by not adapting and thinking TFC is going to play possession based football with a squad who can’t do it successfully.

Some of the players are letting us down either by just plain sucking or by having a weak or negative mentality.

There are positives to how TFC is playing, but as a whole it’s really not looking great.

Time to start pulling your heads out of the sand, ostriches.

[Gringo Starr]

At least Curtis found the time to secure the new sponsorship with GE Appliances now when this team pisses me off I'll just go yell at my washer and dryer

[flatpicker]

I'm glad I forgot to watch this game!

[Auzzy]

I've often been negative about the team and management. There are some major issues -- and some of those started last season. In fact, the issue of the team not executing what Vanney wants, as evidenced by his interviews etc., even existed in 2015 & 2016. (E.g. when we would drop points after the opposing team went down a man.)

Also today was a really piss poor effort by most of the team.

However I thought there was good effort shown by the TFC players vs DCU. Not good enough especially in front of goal, but they were trying. Also in some of the other recent games. I'm just trying to talk myself bank from the brink.

I think there are problems, but the team doesn't consistently give up on Vanney (yet). They were definitely tired today; Vanney had the tactics wrong (again); and neither the players nor the coach seem to be able to turn things around when they're going poorly. That's been an ongoing theme: if there's a problem, or they make a mistake, they're more likely to repeat it than change their ways.

Now they have an 8-day break, perhaps things will look better vs. San Jose at home. With Pozuelo out, maybe Vanney will set the team up more pragmatically? (He did have the team playing more pragmatically at the start of 2016, I believe, after the Manning ultimatum.)

[Grandia]

poz gets a 1 match ban?

[MightyDM]

I only watched until a little after the first goal and then stopped. Very rare for me, I have watched almost every game since the beginning. But I just couldn’t keep watching.

There is really something wrong and I don’t know where to start - but I’ll start with the soccer gods. Last year we really tempted them by playing kids like poor Julian Dunn and throwing away games. This year I think the line up against Atlanta did the same thing - they were a team rip for the picking and we threw it away with a poorly chosen line up and too aggressive tactics. But we tempted the soccer gods again. Not a good idea, and kind of arrogant.

Something else that is wrong - the use of Hamilton. Playing up front in a “2” with Ayo he was very good. He had other moments and earned the number two striker. Now he looks lost and almost scared to make a mistake. Why do we insist on using him as a lone striker when it clearly doesn’t work?

Then there are the lineups - no balance. Partly because of the roster. We could sure use Gregory van der Weil, eh? Auro is good but terribly weak defensively. He needs to play WB not RB.

I could go on. Much of the criticisms people have of individual players on these boards is a result of a roster missing pace and width, and a stubborn coach. But there is something else. Curtis / Vanney; problems in the locker room; something. It all feels off.

[Auzzy]

poz gets a 1 match ban?

Standard is you miss one game after a red card. The fouls weren't egregious, so I doubt he faces any supplemental discipline.

[OgtheDim]

Poz apologises

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1129894873010778112


&

https://twitter.com/Pozuelo_10/status/1129877939166879746


***********

Captain material at Genk

Captain material in Toronto


I love Bradley. I think he is likely to stay here the rest of his career.

I think part of the renewal is that the armband moves over next season.

[stegosaurus]

I only watched until a little after the first goal and then stopped. Very rare for me, I have watched almost every game since the beginning. But I just couldn’t keep watching.

There is really something wrong and I don’t know where to start - but I’ll start with the soccer gods. Last year we really tempted them by playing kids like poor Julian Dunn and throwing away games. This year I think the line up against Atlanta did the same thing - they were a team rip for the picking and we threw it away with a poorly chosen line up and too aggressive tactics. But we tempted the soccer gods again. Not a good idea, and kind of arrogant.

Something else that is wrong - the use of Hamilton. Playing up front in a “2” with Ayo he was very good. He had other moments and earned the number two striker. Now he looks lost and almost scared to make a mistake. Why do we insist on using him as a lone striker when it clearly doesn’t work?

Then there are the lineups - no balance. Partly because of the roster. We could sure use Gregory van der Weil, eh? Auro is good but terribly weak defensively. He needs to play WB not RB.

I could go on. Much of the criticisms people have of individual players on these boards is a result of a roster missing pace and width, and a stubborn coach. But there is something else. Curtis / Vanney; problems in the locker room; something. It all feels off.

VdW was a scapegoat.

Sure, he has a history of attitude problems but you’d expect if you’re hiring him you should be able to manage it. If you can’t, you fucked up.

He was also a better CB than some of our actual CBs, and better than Auro.

For those saying “well, no one signed him yet...” Congratulations, he’s rich, his wife is rich, and they are living in LA. He has side businesses, makes celebrity appearances, etc. He doesn’t need to play football anymore. If he did, he’d have contracts wherever even if he’s a douchecanoe.

[stegosaurus]

Poz apologises

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1129894873010778112


&

https://twitter.com/Pozuelo_10/status/1129877939166879746


***********

Captain material at Genk

Captain material in Toronto


I love Bradley. I think he is likely to stay here the rest of his career.

I think part of the renewal is that the armband moves over next season.

You can tell how involved he is in this capacity already. Good on him.

[stegosaurus]

Wait, did you delete your post, Og? I don’t see it but I hadn’t finished reading it.

[Hamilton_Red]

I like Bradley ...I think he still has 3 years as a DP left in him at MLS level. I think he has been told by Management that they won’t renew. He knows he is leaving. He is playing like that and some other players have caught on.

Poz comes in new and fresh puts in 3-4 world class performances then figures out the rest of the team.

Vanney may have lost the dressing room...how many games without a win do you get?

Club couldn’t get the TAM deals done...why in the world do we think that will change in the window? It was left to chance and we lost. This is a serious fall from grace.

[stevep]

I found this on mls.com message board and it sums TFC up in a few words

No Giovinco = No trophies

all the rest of the talk is just noise

on wednedays game you replace
zavalletta with ciman
marky with giovinco
hamilton with jozy

how many goals do we win by? 4??
No Giovinco = No trophies

No Giovinco = No trophies

[stegosaurus]

I found this on mls.com message board and it sums TFC up in a few words

No Giovinco = No trophies

all the rest of the talk is just noise

No Giovinco = No trophies

No Giovinco = No trophies

Well, obviously. That’s like saying no Messi = no Barcelona trophies (in recent memory). But when Messi’s 47 he isn’t going to be carrying them.

Seba would have still been good here but he couldn’t have carried us this year just like he couldn’t last year.

That’s on the FO.

[stevep]

Well, obviously. That’s like saying no Messi = no Barcelona trophies (in recent memory). But when Messi’s 47 he isn’t going to be carrying them.

Seba would have still been good here but he couldn’t have carried us this year just like he couldn’t last year.

That’s on the FO.

With jozy, gio and Laurent in the lineup Wednesday we could beat LAFC

[stegosaurus]

With jozy, gio and Laurent in the lineup Wednesday we could beat LAFC

One of those players isn’t ours, if Jozy is injured or coming off injury he can’t play, and lol people actually rate Ciman this highly? I get Ciman as a Mavinga replacement or as a reasonable ball player defender but he’s not actually a superstar or anything.

[jazzy]

I didn’t watch the game because I had other things to do, but I don’t think I’ll even bother watching it now.

There were a lot of people saying the issues with this team were very superficial and that we’d continue the amazing start we had. Goals for PPG Osorio stepping up blah blah blah.

Look who was right?

It isn’t Moor that made our defense work, it was a combination of Moor and Mavinga. We don’t get 70+% possession and 30+ shots against a team that is actually attempting to do something.

This squad isn’t a TAM winger away from the cup and they don’t even look good with the entire starting XI minus one player.

We won our cup at the right time, because this team isn’t very good currently, people are still getting injured constantly, and our FO has struggled to make even simple moves. Vanney isn’t adapting to what we have. There have been and still are clear mentality issues.

The FO has let us down (while lying to us).

Vanney is letting us down by not adapting and thinking TFC is going to play possession based football with a squad who can’t do it successfully.

Some of the players are letting us down either by just plain sucking or by having a weak or negative mentality.

There are positives to how TFC is playing, but as a whole it’s really not looking great.

Time to start pulling your heads out of the sand, ostriches.

sadly , I can’t find any facts to dispute your opinion and unfortunately I’ve felt this , from the beginning of last seasons team
lofty attitude and Vanneys refusal to understand or control the inevitable ‘down’ after a team wins a championship. He should of read Ferguson’s book .

[69Chevy396]

I found this on mls.com message board and it sums TFC up in a few words

No Giovinco = No trophies

all the rest of the talk is just noise

on wednedays game you replace
zavalletta with ciman
marky with giovinco
hamilton with jozy

how many goals do we win by? 4??
No Giovinco = No trophies

No Giovinco = No trophies

This is important. Sure, Giovinco wasn’t ever going to meet 2015 mvp status, but even last year, despite his injuries, he put up a good season....no...what he brings is the possibility of scoring whenever he touches the ball. ...and that more than anything, is what is missing from this team (I know I didn’t watch today, so hear me out anyway)..he scared the shit out of MLS defenders, and made things happen for his avg teammates...on this team, with its many shortcomings, a Poz Seba duo would have won games that we didn’t deserve to win...Put Rooney on TFC and you might get the same result...but right now, this is the Spartan army without a general.

[ensco]

This isn’t that complicated. We have issues in the back, sure, but ...

we have one goal in four games.

[stegosaurus]

This isn’t that complicated. We have issues in the back, sure, but ...

we have one goal in four games.

Nope.

Goals for = so good
Ppg = so good
Osorio = so good

Hurhur

Edit: your TAM forward is Osorio

[Ultra & Proud]

Nope.

Goals for = so good
Ppg = so good
Osorio = so good

Hurhur

Edit: your TAM forward is Osorio

When was Osorio ever a forward?

[ensco]

Nope.

Goals for = so good
Ppg = so good
Osorio = so good

Hurhur

Edit: your TAM forward is Osorio

Can you restate? This seems worth understanding but not sure I follow...

[Auzzy]

I didn’t watch this game. However, I did view the Poz redcard foul. In slow motion, it is clear that he didn’t touch the player.

Even Pozuelo doesn't agree with you; he apologized for the 2nd yellow / red. (It wasn't a straight red.)

Watch the highlight here, on the last angle you can see that he bumps the side of the RSL player's calf, taking him down. Also he was harassing the RSL player all the way across the field, which made the intent more clear. Even before it happened, I had a feeling that a foul & 2nd yellow card were on their way.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/05/18/alejandro-pozuelo-says-im-sorry-first-red-card-toronto-fc

[portu]

These guys are all good players and serve the roles well. I don't know why they aren't performing, but I think we all know they can do a job so these results really don't track.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Can you restate? This seems worth understanding but not sure I follow...

Talk about benefit of the doubt...

This was a frustrating match. At a time when they had so many chances to build on and they took a nap. SJ is getting better but not that good that next match is a lock for either side. Unless this is Wondo's time for a streak. Then it could be more of the same.

Womens World Cup is right around the corner.

[stegosaurus]

Can you restate? This seems worth understanding but not sure I follow...

We haven’t even really had a goal from open play over the course of those games.

We had an amazing PPG and an amazing amount of goals for. Plus, Osorio had an amazing points per 90. I can’t believe people actually thought any of this was going to lead to TFC being cup contenders.

A bunch of people called out the issues and others were content to assume our form would continue, that we didn’t play bad teams, that we weren’t an injury away from mediocrity because Osorio could step up. He really hasn’t and I don’t think he’ll replicate last season, plus he’s on a TAM salary now.

When the FO is looking to bring in TAM level signings to save the team, it’s easier to look at the TAM signings they’ve already made: Aketxe, VdW, and Osorio. Vazquez is a special scenario that I assume they will never make again. That’s not a good track record...

[MightyDM]

The team is constructed badly. And the coach hasn’t found a way to cope.

For years we had a right back problem, from when we let the ginger go until we brought in Beitashour. For reasons that clearly were wrong, it was decided to let him go. They could have found a way and clearly should have. Auro isn’t a replacement, he is a wingback as shown By the first goal yesterday - a proper RB puts his body in the way of the player as a first instinct, not trying for the ball and if so no goal despite moors error. VdW was a replacement skill wise. But.

Osorio is a strong contributor who works well with Poz and Bradley - they should be a spine in a 2-1 or a 1-2. But none of them have pace so we need fullbacks, Wing backs, or wingers. We have none except arguable Auro and he is player out of position (see above). Raheem and Hasler both could have contributed here, certainly as depth players. You could get away with DeLeon as one winger if you had a proper one on the left. But we don’t, so DeLeon Delgado and Chapman are forced to play out of position.

Up front, Hamilton cannot play alone. It doesn’t work. He needs Boyd with him and it’s better for Poz too to be a 1 behind a 2. Yes that makes us narrow but it’s what the constitution of the club dictates.

[ensco]

We haven’t even really had a goal from open play over the course of those games.

We had an amazing PPG and an amazing amount of goals for. Plus, Osorio had an amazing points per 90. I can’t believe people actually thought any of this was going to lead to TFC being cup contenders.

A bunch of people called out the issues and others were content to assume our form would continue, that we didn’t play bad teams, that we weren’t an injury away from mediocrity because Osorio could step up. He really hasn’t and I don’t think he’ll replicate last season, plus he’s on a TAM salary now.

When the FO is looking to bring in TAM level signings to save the team, it’s easier to look at the TAM signings they’ve already made: Aketxe, VdW, and Osorio. Vazquez is a special scenario that I assume they will never make again. That’s not a good track record...

I agree with most of this. We were always a 500 team, though...it's what happens now that will drive my opinion. I am on edge but OK, for the moment.

[Ultra & Proud]

"I'm proud of the guys effort until the end, because I felt like it was there on a day where for sure they were fatigued and it's a tough place to play and they gave a fight until the end." - head coach Greg Vanney

Not so sure they really did.

[ensco]

"I'm proud of the guys effort until the end, because I felt like it was there on a day where for sure they were fatigued and it's a tough place to play and they gave a fight until the end." - head coach Greg Vanney

Not so sure they really did.

Vanney always does this. He complements the team after bad losses. The better they play, the more likely he is to be critical post game.

It's a cliche, so I don’t love it, but it doesn’t mean anything.

[stegosaurus]

"I'm proud of the guys effort until the end, because I felt like it was there on a day where for sure they were fatigued and it's a tough place to play and they gave a fight until the end." - head coach Greg Vanney

Not so sure they really did.

I just skimmed through the game and they definitely looked fatigued, if fatigued is synonymous with bad.

One question beyond what others have been saying: why is Vanney insisting on having Pozo cross the entire pitch to retrieve balls? The one foul he committed was just outside our box, right beside Bradley.

Dropping back is fine, defending is fine, but he’s consistently so far back doing defensive work that it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[Ultra & Proud]

I just skimmed through the game and they definitely looked fatigued, if fatigued is synonymous with bad.

One question beyond what others have been saying: why is Vanney insisting on having Pozo cross the entire pitch to retrieve balls? The one foul he committed was just outside our box, right beside Bradley.

Dropping back is fine, defending is fine, but he’s consistently so far back doing defensive work that it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Because no one else is doing it and that's the biggest problem.

[Auzzy]

I just skimmed through the game and they definitely looked fatigued, if fatigued is synonymous with bad.

One question beyond what others have been saying: why is Vanney insisting on having Pozo cross the entire pitch to retrieve balls? The one foul he committed was just outside our box, right beside Bradley.

Dropping back is fine, defending is fine, but he’s consistently so far back doing defensive work that it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I doubt that Vanney is insisting many of the things the players are doing. I base that on some of his interviews. Especially when things aren't going well, Vanney doesn't seem to have great strategies or ways to motivate them, and the players often seem to be do their own thing anyway. It's not a new phenomenon either; I've noticed that on & off since Vanney arrived. I think I mentioned it above already (e.g. when we used to always drop points after the other team went down a man).

On that play in particular, Pozuelo's frustration had been building, you could sense it watching that game. Before the 2nd yellow, he was kind of hacking at the player all the way across the field. It was just general bad mood, based on a tiredness in a crappy game with crappy teammates and crappy strategy from the coach. Definitely not something Vanney told Pozuelo directly.

Although there was probably a general request to all the TFC players, to press high, crowd the other team immediately when they have the ball, and don't let them do their thing. When TFC have done that in 2 or 3 games this season, they've looked pretty good, and they've limited the pressure on our weak defence playing that way. Yesterday most TFC players weren't doing that, due to whatever combination of tiredness and lack of motivation. So perhaps that sequence of Pozuelo was a bit of a temper tantrum towards his teammates, for capitulating.

[jazzy]

These guys are all good players and serve the roles well. I don't know why they aren't performing, but I think we all know they can do a job so these results really don't track.

If you're right then coach and hopefully mgr have to go , the players are struggling with a Vanneys concepts for sure , or they’re shit . Surely that’s not the case , or a bit of both .

[Blizzard]

Zavaleta can't head the ball.

Wileman saying TFC should pick up Plata. I agree. Curtis?

Haha. Did he? I was saying that at Shoeless Joe's. He looked good but he also makes $660k.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Well we got the scarves for Plata if he comes back. But he better be onside if he puts the ball in for us.