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View Full Version : Bradley = the most wasted DP in TFC's history



PizzaEatingYeti
05-14-2019, 04:03 AM
Yeah, this is my opinion after all these years having Bradley at TFC.

Sadly, IMO The General is the most wasted DP in the history of TFC, because in too many games he's played too deep, and by this he was not used at he's real strengths.

I think at least in 50% of the games he ever played at TFC he's been in this position.
The reasons were many, and really not just because there weren't always enough good bodies available in defence. It's a lot about tactics, balancing the team too...

In light of this, also Bradley has to be the most overpaid player ever at TFC, considering all the years of his contract versus his real contribution to the team's results.

Of course, this is not the guy's fault, and by no means I'm attacking Bradley by creating this thread.
We all like him and appreciate him, we know he's going out all for the team, so many times (or almost every time) he's the hart of this team.
But it is what it is.

Pro or contrary thoughts, and why?

Red4ever
05-14-2019, 06:25 AM
Counterpoint, you overpay to win a championship and to change the culture.

OgtheDim
05-14-2019, 06:30 AM
2016 Montreal series

Who starts the comeback? Michael Bradley


2017 MLS Cup Final

Best game TFC ever played

Best player on the pitch - Michael Bradley


That star isn't there without him.

Blindside16
05-14-2019, 06:41 AM
2016 Montreal series

Who starts the comeback? Michael Bradley


2017 MLS Cup Final

Best game TFC ever played

Best player on the pitch - Michael Bradley


That star isn't there without him.

Don't forget the game he put in in leg 2 vs Columbus. The game saving tackle on Meram I believe it was where he tracked him down from 15 yards behind him. I agree there is no star without the General

denime
05-14-2019, 06:50 AM
Yeah, this is my opinion after all these years having Bradley at TFC.

Sadly, IMO The General is the most wasted DP in the history of TFC, because in too many games he's played too deep, and by this he was not used at he's real strengths.

I think at least in 50% of the games he ever played at TFC he's been in this position.
The reasons were many, and really not just because there weren't always enough good bodies available in defence. It's a lot about tactics, balancing the team too...

In light of this, also Bradley has to be the most overpaid player ever at TFC, considering all the years of his contract versus his real contribution to the team's results.

Of course, this is not the guy's fault, and by no means I'm attacking Bradley by creating this thread.
We all like him and appreciate him, we know he's going out all for the team, so many times (or almost every time) he's the hart of this team.
But it is what it is.

Pro or contrary thoughts, and why?

Worst DP ever

DEFOE

Derko
05-14-2019, 06:52 AM
I agree that there is no star without Bradley, I also agree that Michael Bradley does have his faults, but I feel that the comment of the most wasted DP in TFC's history is a bit harsh and is untrue in my opinion, and this thread is about personal opinion.
Remember we had the Big Bloody Deal waste of a DP in Jermaine Defoe.
I think that Bradley's strengths have not been utilized by Vanney, the constant playing deep, passing back, rarely driving forward, and looking to make the extra pass is a reflection of coaching, the player is being coached that way. Just my opinion.
I would rather have Michael Bradley at TFC, than he be an opponent. :scarf: :drinking::flare:

Red4ever
05-14-2019, 06:53 AM
It's in no way meant to insult anyone, but people who have played and watched soccer in an obsessive manner, know Bradley is the glue, the cog, the nuts.

If we sent any of the best players in the world to our club tomorrow, id wager all the money in my pocket that none of them would rag on Bradley.

Ultra & Proud
05-14-2019, 07:08 AM
Worst DP ever

DEFOE
Mista.

Joe Kool
05-14-2019, 07:22 AM
The thing I find with Bradley is that he has about one bad pass or play once per game usually but the rest of the time he is pretty solid except when played out of position but that is not his fault. There are tons of DPs out there that don’t give even close to what he gives and I believe he is a good leader and locker room guy.

MKR
05-14-2019, 07:28 AM
what a hilarious thread. It might be one of the most misguided threads in TFC forum history.

If you want to get accurate, you might want to think back to Julian de guzman. Or do you not remember Mista?

Bradley is not only the team's captain and a damn good one at that, but one of the key players that we owe all our success to.

anto7
05-14-2019, 07:37 AM
what a hilarious thread. It might be one of the most misguided threads in TFC forum history.

If you want to get accurate, you might want to think back to Julian de guzman. Or do you not remember Mista?

Bradley is not only the team's captain and a damn good one at that, but one of the key players that we owe all our success to.

Everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion, however I totally agree with what you said. For me Bradley is probably the most important player we have ever had to date and I would also say best player based on how many games our other star players have missed(but I agree that’s very debatable)

Ponderosa
05-14-2019, 08:03 AM
Mista.

Bradley changed the locker room mentality- we would have won diddly squat without that- and I genuinely believe he is invested in the Club beyond the pay check.

As for worst DP ever...lest we forget - Gilberto

paul-collins
05-14-2019, 08:08 AM
Even when misused on the pitch, Bradley's intangibles are off the chart.

I think the point the OP was making was *not* that Bradley is a waste, but rather the opposite - that he's all that for the team but his contributions have been wasted through poor structural utilization.

I see the point. But a captain has to captain, and sometimes that means dropping deeper to help out rather than being focused on your own individual performance. So, to me, the off-peak use of Bradley the player has more to do with using him as a captain, and in that sense is *not* wasted.

burlington Red
05-14-2019, 08:09 AM
Every great teams needs a Bradley. He'll not get the headlines a Giovinco or Altidore gets but he's the heartbeat of the team. The amount of sacrifices he makes for the team is outstanding, plus in the big games he stands up and is counted. They always say great players make those around them better, and I definitely feel that way with Bradley. I think he's a proper legit legend for us. In the modern game where there is a distinct lack of on field leaders, for this level, Bradley is as good as it gets for me.

Red CB Toronto
05-14-2019, 09:24 AM
Worst DP ever

DEFOE

Mista has to be, that dude was useless and in my eyes his signing was what caused the DeRo soap opera.

stegosaurus
05-14-2019, 09:56 AM
I don’t agree at all, but Bradley is actually holding the team back in terms of signing a third attacking DP. In terms of MLS, it’s probably a waste to sign a DP like Bradley in general.

He actually is also incredibly overpaid, but that doesn’t matter because it’s not our money and you can pay a DP whatever you want.

That said, he’s barely ever injured and barely misses any games. He’s an important player who has been integral to our success and has even carried us when we’d probably have lost (like our first game against Philly this season).

He has the odd bad game, sometimes misplaces some passes, but he’s also expected to do more work on the pitch than anyone else in a position that doesn’t lend itself to glory or highlight reels.

Overpaid? Yes, absolutely.

Holding us back from signing a third attacking DP so we can outscore everyone even if our midfield and defense is weak? Sure, but Vazquez should have been a DP too, which is the big difference from our title winning season and every other one.

Wasted DP slot over his time here? No.

Is Bradley misused currently in the system Vanney is playing? Probably.

Everyone thinks you’re equating wasting Bradley’s potenial with being the worst DP ever.

Oldtimer
05-14-2019, 10:01 AM
Mista.


Mista has to be, that dude was useless and in my eyes his signing was what caused the DeRo soap opera.

Agreed with the above. No contest.

Areathrasher
05-14-2019, 10:16 AM
No way was Gilberto the worst.

PizzaEatingYeti
05-14-2019, 11:04 AM
I think the point the OP was making was *not* that Bradley is a waste, but rather the opposite - that he's all that for the team but his contributions have been wasted through poor structural utilization.


Exactly, but almost everbody replying seems to overlook this.
About how he's overpaid - makes no sense to compare his earnings with DP-s who stayed a short period at TFC compared to him.

Red4ever
05-14-2019, 11:10 AM
No way was Gilberto the worst.

It's up for debate. Gilberto was pretty terrible.

stegosaurus
05-14-2019, 11:21 AM
It's up for debate. Gilberto was pretty terrible.

If Gilberto was poop, Mista would be eating poop.

nfitz
05-14-2019, 11:26 AM
If Gilberto was poop, Mista would be eating poop.At least neither eats their mother's poop.

PizzaEatingYeti
05-14-2019, 11:28 AM
If Gilberto was poop, Mista would be eating poop.

+1.
Mista was a lot worse than Gilberto.

Voodooman
05-14-2019, 11:38 AM
Gilberto at least scored that one free kick. What do we remember from Mista

Red4ever
05-14-2019, 11:41 AM
Gilberto at least scored that one free kick. What do we remember from Mista

It's funny I remember that free kick cause Defoe gets hacked to the ground and instead of lobbying for a yellow, Gilberto goes and steals the ball from his team mate; focused on himself. Great goal, but I've never hated a TFC player more.



I guess I had expectations for Gilberto. Whereas, Mista had kinda been shit for a while and there were fewer expectations.

Gilberto was part of the new era, we lost a young DP because of him and he was garbage.


If Gilberto was poop, Mista would be eating poop.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to stegosaurus again.

shwade
05-14-2019, 11:41 AM
If Gilberto was poop, Mista would be eating poop.

Word. Gilberto gets an unfair ride around here. All hustle, no drama plus he silenced Defoe that one time..

Prof
05-14-2019, 11:41 AM
Worst DP ever

DEFOE
Worst DP ever
MISTA

JoesphNdo
05-14-2019, 12:10 PM
This won't be popular...

I suspect Bradleys biggest problem is his ego, and it results in there being almost two Michael Bradleys that can show up at any given time. Bradleys strengths are stamina, will to win, covering ground, tackling, positioning and off the ball movement (He gets passed too *alot*, I think this is actually his biggest strength). Playing to those strengths he would be, and has been, the best mid fielder in the league and he'd be so in the mould of someone like Javier Mascherano or Sergio Busquets. I think in 2017 especially we saw this Bradley and he was outstanding - I'm not sure if it was just having Vasquez in the team, but he played deep, played within his limitations and was outstanding.

The second Bradley, that we see more often than not, is one who isn't content to be a limited but very effective footballer and who tries things he isn't capable of. I'm sorry but he should be fined every time he passes the ball over 20 yards, it's almost certainly just turning over possession - he is *not* good at it. At all. Every game this season we're watching floated balls to nobody he has no business making, of course some come off, but even if they do it rarely puts us in a good position so the amount we lose is not compensated by the good passes. I suspect he has an ego that makes him think he has to be 'the man' but it's detrimental to the team and actually the best way he ever was 'the man' was in 2017 when he left the creating to the players who excel at it and he just stuck to being the wall in front of our defence

If we could focus him on his strengths he'd absolutely justify his price tag, there's nothing wrong with a deep lying mid fielder - Some of the best mid fielders on the planet offer little to nothing in attack. The problem is he doesn't, and when he doesn't he's just an average MLS mid fielder who is not worth the DP money

With all that said he isn't even close to our top ten worst DP

Areathrasher
05-14-2019, 12:23 PM
It's up for debate. Gilberto was pretty terrible.

Not for me. He was clearly a quality player that was just taking some time to adjust to living/playing in a new country. I think expectations on him from some were unfair.

Regardless, i've gotten into this enough on here over the years so i'm not getting into it in depth again :lol:

JoesphNdo
05-14-2019, 12:34 PM
Surprised no mention of Hassli, is my memory playing tricks on me or wasn't an aging Hassli signed on a pointless half season DP deal in a season which was already a write off?

Section_105
05-14-2019, 01:42 PM
Mista.

THIS. and it's not even a contest.


Bradley provides the intangibles that we do not see from the stands and couches. All you need to do is look at how the other players talk about him to know that he is worth all the money and more. He had as big an impact on our ownership getting the right people in as our coaches and management did. His leadership is phenomenal and his skills when he's on are indispensable.

That being said he does not seem ON this year. Not sure if it's the contract talks or just fatigue from years of being an iron man or if the dressing room is still off. Last year probably took as much out of him as of anyone. He's so proud and hardworking that the shitshow that was 2018 must have hurt his motivation levels.

I hope we keep him and get back the motivated/hard nosed Bradley of old.

all my opinions as well but as was said above,

There is no Star
There is no Treble
There is no Jozy
There is so much less emotion and advancement

if MB went elsewhere.

Jozy gets a statue for being Mr. Clutch, MB should get one for being the engine around which all of the success was wrapped.

MightyDM
05-14-2019, 01:47 PM
I am really glad for this thread so that posts like that can be made.

Also, I took pizzaeatingyeti to be saying that the clubs use of Bradley is the worst for a DP - not that he is.

Without the General, no Bloody Big Deal, no Seba, no Jozy, no class or structure and no club we could be proud of supporting.

ensco
05-14-2019, 02:39 PM
I have never seen him drunk or stoned. Speaking personally.

Redcoe15
05-14-2019, 04:36 PM
:facepalm: :frown2: This is the stupidest fucking thread ever created.

stegosaurus
05-14-2019, 06:05 PM
:facepalm: :frown2: This is the stupidest fucking thread ever created.

We could make it even more idiotic by turning it into a thread in which we classify players by the Bristol Stool Scale.

Yohan
05-14-2019, 06:48 PM
DMs are the most underappreciated player on a soccer team.

SirBobSaget
05-14-2019, 07:28 PM
This thread devolved in 'worst DP of all time' when the real intention was signifying that Bradley was a great player being under-used. Last few games Bradley is seldom getting forward, the 1 time he did last game he earned the freekick leading to a goals. Against Philly away he scored 2 when flying into the box late. So the question is shoud Bradley be released from being a stay at home DM to be a free box to box DM instead

Richard
05-14-2019, 07:33 PM
Julian de Guzman was the most wasted DP in TFC's history. Instead of paying for a striker we overpaid for a cleanup man. In that era you could have played any no skilled banger and get the same job done.

ryan
05-14-2019, 07:35 PM
Bradley has terrible stats, doesn't score for shit. I don't get why we pay so much for the guy. WORST.

Thomas
05-14-2019, 09:41 PM
This thread stinks. Bradley has been huge for the Reds over the years. He hasn’t scored many goals, but that’s not his role. Sure his contract needs to be re-negotiated when its up for renewal. He has given more than anyone over the years. The title of this thread really short changes his contributions. The most overpaid ever. Give me a break.

stegosaurus
05-14-2019, 09:50 PM
This thread stinks. Bradley has been huge for the Reds over the years. He hasn’t scored many goals, but that’s not his role. Sure his contract needs to be re-negotiated when its up for renewal. He has given more than anyone over the years. The title of this thread really short changes his contributions. The most overpaid ever. Give me a break.

You misread. He’s not saying Bradley is bad, he’s saying he’s not being used appropriately.

Keep in mind this is the exact same criticism USMNT supporters have of Bradley: when used properly, he’s great. When he’s not used properly, he’s not.

That’s a fair assessment.

Also, Bradley is probably the most overpaid DP of all time if you consider his quality and position. If Seba was the highest paid Italian until a certain striker went to China how could Bradley not be overpaid for a DM?

No one is saying Bradley is bad. Far from it. If was just a spitballing thread people took overly serious.

OgtheDim
05-15-2019, 06:19 AM
Keep in mind this is the exact same criticism USMNT supporters have of Bradley: when used properly, he’s great. When he’s not used properly, he’s not.




A large chunk of USMNT fans think Bradley is bad. They have no clue what a DM does. Most of this comes down to them only watching World Cup games - the first game in the 2014 World Cup Jones had a great first half & Bradley a bad one - since then Bradley is a bum.

There is a reporter with the Atlanta Journal Constitution who has been anti-Bradley since they came into the league. Tried to engage with him about it but he just does a "will have to disagree with you on that".

denime
05-15-2019, 06:21 AM
Surprised no mention of Hassli, is my memory playing tricks on me or wasn't an aging Hassli signed on a pointless half season DP deal in a season which was already a write off?

He was traded from Whitecaps for draft pick in mid season,we sign him to replace Kovermans(injured) for the rest of the season,and we traded him by the end of the yea.

denime
05-15-2019, 06:23 AM
Mista.


Mista has to be, that dude was useless and in my eyes his signing was what caused the DeRo soap opera.


Worst DP ever
MISTA

You guys are 100% spot on.

Mista was so bad I even forgot he existed,not the mention played for us.That was million dollars well spent.

stegosaurus
05-15-2019, 08:21 AM
A large chunk of USMNT fans think Bradley is bad. They have no clue what a DM does. Most of this comes down to them only watching World Cup games - the first game in the 2014 World Cup Jones had a great first half & Bradley a bad one - since then Bradley is a bum.

There is a reporter with the Atlanta Journal Constitution who has been anti-Bradley since they came into the league. Tried to engage with him about it but he just does a "will have to disagree with you on that".

He still had a fair amount of supporters after that, at least amongst people who had even a portion of their brain remaining.

It was really the T&T match that made people lose their minds and become completely nonsensical, like not wanting Jozy to play for the USMNT anymore.

Since then they’ve come around on people like Jozy (because he’s obviously the best striker they have when fit), but Bradley remains hated because the average person (someone mentioned above) has no clue what a DM does (or even a midfielder, probably).

magmadragon
05-15-2019, 10:03 AM
I think the point the OP was making was *not* that Bradley is a waste, but rather the opposite - that he's all that for the team but his contributions have been wasted through poor structural utilization.


It's impressive how many are misreading the OP.

Oldtimer
05-15-2019, 10:13 AM
It's impressive how many are misreading the OP.

I'd agree that playing Bradley far back is a waste of his talents. However, it's borne out of necessity.
We desperately need a better defense. So far Curtis has failed in getting that part shored up. Surely there's decent defenders within MLS, no need to shop the foreign market.

Red4ever
05-15-2019, 10:29 AM
Well the thread title could have been constructed in many other ways.

It paints Bradley as the subject when it should be the club. The add on assertion he's overpaid doesn't help that.

ag futbol
05-15-2019, 10:55 AM
I’m a little surprised at some of the views here.

The reason we could field two guys who contributed nothing defensively, plus Altidore (who had to track back on occasion) during a championship season was because of Bradley’s range, defensive cleanup work, and physical dominance in the midfield.

His play has dropped off more recently and is more of a TAM player instead of a DP. But again, he’s not a goal scorer nor is that his job. He’s less likely to get goals than a CB who moves up on corners.

glaze
05-15-2019, 11:29 AM
As long as we're on the topic of controversial views, one could say Jozy is overrated.
Now he scored the biggest goal in our history.
But from a DP and $ point of view, remember we kinda just swapped problems with Sunderland to unload Defoe.
Jozy was underwhelming up until he got injured taking a PK. Unlike Bradley he has never won an RPB player of the year. He's still injury prone.
Even Seba. We will always remember his prime, but his last season was forgettable. He was at times a liability on the field.
Bradley spends way too much time covering for other players mistakes. He is the general out there every game. It may not be obvious on the stat sheet or highlight reel, but he is one of the most irreplaceable players we have.

stegosaurus
05-15-2019, 11:52 AM
As long as we're on the topic of controversial views, one could say Jozy is overrated.
Now he scored the biggest goal in our history.
But from a DP and $ point of view, remember we kinda just swapped problems with Sunderland to unload Defoe.
Jozy was underwhelming up until he got injured taking a PK. Unlike Bradley he has never won an RPB player of the year. He's still injury prone.
Even Seba. We will always remember his prime, but his last season was forgettable. He was at times a liability on the field.
Bradley spends way too much time covering for other players mistakes. He is the general out there every game. It may not be obvious on the stat sheet or highlight reel, but he is one of the most irreplaceable players we have.

Last season Seba won the CCL Golden Ball, was involved in nearly every goal we scored in the tournament, and scored a bunch of goals during the regular season.

He was declining, but hardly a waste of a DP spot, and he didn’t have a forgettable season. Even if he was declining, the team itself was a mess which obviously impacts goal and assist tallies.

The $ value you spend on DPs doesn’t matter, and even if Bradley, Jozy and Seba were/are all overpaid (they probably were/are), it really doesn’t matter.