Match Day 11 - DCU @ TFC Wednesday May 15 8pm We're Still Around

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kHMB2DVgc


***********

Have at It People

[RedsYNWA]

We need the 3 points here for morale..... we have an extra day of rest vs DCU and hopefully take the full points

[Ultra & Proud]

Hopefully Vanney shakes it up a little and we have some health luck.

------------- Jozy ------------

Endoh ------- Pozo --------Chapman

--------Bradley ---- Osorio -------

Morrow – Mavinga – Moor ---DeLeon

[Cas87]

Hopefully Vanney shakes it up a little and we have some health luck.

------------- Jozy ------------

Endoh ------- Pozo --------Chapman

--------Bradley ---- Osorio -------

Morrow – Mavinga – Moor ---DeLeon

I like this combo (because Endoh needs to see the field soon otherwise it is a waste)
I would even like Poz closer to Jozy (if not slightly behind) with Oso in the middle.

[reggie]

Hopefully Vanney shakes it up a little and we have some health luck.

------------- Jozy ------------

Endoh ------- Pozo --------Chapman

--------Bradley ---- Osorio -------

Morrow – Mavinga – Moor ---DeLeon

the only change i would make is put in our new left winger allo cation in... he got here 2 wks and should be ready,and apparently manning said we are going to love him.:facepalm:

[Ultra & Proud]

I like this combo (because Endoh needs to see the field soon otherwise it is a waste)
I would even like Poz closer to Jozy (if not slightly behind) with Oso in the middle.
I just had Oso back by Bradley because the ball isn't moving out of our third fast enough. Hopefully he could help with that.

Oh, and I tossed Chapman up on the right because he actually runs and isn't afraid to shoot. We need more of that.

[Auzzy]

Considering all the thoughts about strengths & weaknesses, in this & other threads...

Assuming Auro & Ciman are out...

Assuming Moor & Jozy are good to go at least the majority of the game...

I would like to see this line-up:

-------- Akinola ----- Altidore --------

-------- Pozuelo ----- Osorio --------
-------- Bradley ----- DeLeon --------

Morrow ------ Mavinga ----- Moor ----- Laryea

------------------- Westberg -------------------

Basically a 4-4-2 that can morph as needed, but needs some comments:

- Hamilton off the bench as a relatively early super-sub, for which ever forward needs a break first. (For example, let's ease Altidore into things & not over-use him right after injury.) Other important options off the bench, depending on the situation: Endoh; Chapman; Delgado.

- DeLeon stapled back as a pure DM & destroyer to shield our defense.

- This allows Bradley with a more free-floating role, which he's going to do anyway, regardless of what Vanney or anyone else tells him. But he should provide as much additional DM cover as needed. (I don't think Bradley is fast enough anymore to play as the only DM when we're facing a pacy team, and when our suspect defense needs some cover. BTW most MLS teams have some pace.)

- Depending on the game situation, width provided by our FBs; and/or one of our AMs; and/or Akinola. We suck at crossing until we get that magical winger, so I wouldn't put too much stock in width anyway. Enough width to stretch the other team, but I'm not really expecting much production out of it.

- Pozuelo & Osorio in the thick of things & creating, rather than waiting on the periphery, for build-up play by others that never happens.

- Akinola and Osorio (at least) need to press high when DC has the ball.

- Vanney really needs to lay off "the way he wants to play" for now, it has become pretty ridiculous.

[OgtheDim]

DC United isn't too good out on the wings. They like to pass it up quickly to the forwards on the break and get between the lines & go. When they can't do that, they swing the ball around hoping for a bit of individual brilliance.

Sound familiar?

They are, in many ways, a lot like us except with a better defence and a keeper who can stone cold kill a team on his own. if his team goes AWOL.

We are the underdogs but we can win this one.

[stevep]

DC United isn't too good out on the wings. They like to pass it up quickly to the forwards on the break and get between the lines & go. When they can't do that, they swing the ball around hoping for a bit of individual brilliance.



Sound familiar?

They are, in many ways, a lot like us except with a better defence and a keeper who can stone cold kill a team on his own. if his team goes AWOL.

We are the underdogs but we can win this one.


We're not the underdogs.
Pretty decent favorite actually

[OgtheDim]

We should be the underdogs & most pundits following MLS would put us there.

Betting markets are another matter.

[Fort York Redcoat]

DC found the win vs KC after many chances at goal. They will get chances Wed. We've gotta be strong and focused and consistent. :scarf:

[stevep]

We should be the underdogs & most pundits following MLS would put us there.

Betting markets are another matter.

Let me explain to you how this league works in terms of favourites and underdogs.

It is a rare thing for the home team to be an underdog in this league.
I know this for reviewing the odds of the games every week. its kind of a weird hobby of mine.
But you won't most likely believe me so you can review for yourself.
Here are the last 50 games that were played in the MLS. of these 50 games only 2 games out of 50 the home team was the underdog.
4% of the games the home team is the underdog.
https://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/usa/mls/results/
game 1 crew vs lafc on May8th
game 2 san jose vs kc on april 20th

For us to be the underdog in this game we would have to be real garbage.

Really interesting thing about this TFC vs DC game.
On Sunday morning TFC odds were 2.20 or around 45% expected winning percentage for the game.
At this point I resigned myself to the fact that TFC are garbage like everyone here thinks. I didn't want to accept this but the markets had spoken and they said loud and clear TFC is shit. If TFC was good the odds for this game should be around 1.6-1.7 or around a 60%-62% expected winning percentage for the game.

But here is where it gets really interesting, every day the odds for TFC winning the game kept going up. now the odds are on average of all bookmakers around 1.7 or 60% expected win percentage TFC will win the game.

good news TFC is not shit, we are fine, if we were a great team the odds would be around 1.45 to 1.50 or a 65%-67% expected win percentage.
note the Atlanta game with our bench players playing the odds for Atlanta winning were 1.45 or 67%

[Blindside16]

Considering all the thoughts about strengths & weaknesses, in this & other threads...

Assuming Auro & Ciman are out...

Assuming Moor & Jozy are good to go at least the majority of the game...

I would like to see this line-up:

-------- Akinola ----- Altidore --------

-------- Pozuelo ----- Osorio --------
-------- Bradley ----- DeLeon --------

Morrow ------ Mavinga ----- Moor ----- Laryea

------------------- Westberg -------------------

Basically a 4-4-2 that can morph as needed, but needs some comments:

- Hamilton off the bench as a relatively early super-sub, for which ever forward needs a break first. (For example, let's ease Altidore into things & not over-use him right after injury.) Other important options off the bench, depending on the situation: Endoh; Chapman; Delgado.

- DeLeon stapled back as a pure DM & destroyer to shield our defense.

- This allows Bradley with a more free-floating role, which he's going to do anyway, regardless of what Vanney or anyone else tells him. But he should provide as much additional DM cover as needed. (I don't think Bradley is fast enough anymore to play as the only DM when we're facing a pacy team, and when our suspect defense needs some cover. BTW most MLS teams have some pace.)

- Depending on the game situation, width provided by our FBs; and/or one of our AMs; and/or Akinola. We suck at crossing until we get that magical winger, so I wouldn't put too much stock in width anyway. Enough width to stretch the other team, but I'm not really expecting much production out of it.

- Pozuelo & Osorio in the thick of things & creating, rather than waiting on the periphery, for build-up play by others that never happens.

- Akinola and Osorio (at least) need to press high when DC has the ball.

- Vanney really needs to lay off "the way he wants to play" for now, it has become pretty ridiculous.

Akinola is out with the U20 US squad for their WC

[Auzzy]

Akinola is out with the U20 US squad for their WC

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Not as ideal, but Hamilton and Altidore should start instead, with Boyd on the bench.

Unfortunately that's not what is going to happen, because Vanney will continue to try to fit square pegs into round holes.

[stegosaurus]

Let me explain to you how this league works in terms of favourites and underdogs.

It is a rare thing for the home team to be an underdog in this league.
I know this for reviewing the odds of the games every week. its kind of a weird hobby of mine.
But you won't most likely believe me so you can review for yourself.
Here are the last 50 games that were played in the MLS. of these 50 games only 2 games out of 50 the home team was the underdog.
4% of the games the home team is the underdog.
https://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/usa/mls/results/
game 1 crew vs lafc on May8th
game 2 san jose vs kc on april 20th

For us to be the underdog in this game we would have to be real garbage.

Really interesting thing about this TFC vs DC game.
On Sunday morning TFC odds were 2.20 or around 45% expected winning percentage for the game.
At this point I resigned myself to the fact that TFC are garbage like everyone here thinks. I didn't want to accept this but the markets had spoken and they said loud and clear TFC is shit. If TFC was good the odds for this game should be around 1.6-1.7 or around a 60%-62% expected winning percentage for the game.

But here is where it gets really interesting, every day the odds for TFC winning the game kept going up. now the odds are on average of all bookmakers around 1.7 or 60% expected win percentage TFC will win the game.

good news TFC is not shit, we are fine, if we were a great team the odds would be around 1.45 to 1.50 or a 65%-67% expected win percentage.
note the Atlanta game with our bench players playing the odds for Atlanta winning were 1.45 or 67%

You’re ignoring the fact that MLS has one of the most skewed home advantages of any reasonably decent football league on the planet, which is something bookies don’t ignore.

[OgtheDim]

Travelling note

If you take the East side of the #1 subway line - it will be closed between Bloor & Eglinton starting at 11 pm.

i.e. Don't hang around too long


http://ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Subway_closures/May_13-16_L1_Eglinton-BY.jsp

[PizzaEatingYeti]

You’re ignoring the fact that MLS has one of the most skewed home advantages of any reasonably decent football league on the planet, which is something bookies don’t ignore.

Here, here! :hump:

[Mikmacdo]

Vanney said Auro is available for selection tomorrow, but Ciman won't be available for about a week. #TFCLive

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Vanney said Auro is available for selection tomorrow, but Ciman won't be available for about a week. #TFCLive

Good to hear about Ciman, but I did not expect that at all. Watching him drop on Saturday our whole section assumed we wouldn't be seeing him for a while.

[paul-collins]

Same. Glad Laurent is not massively hurt, it certainly read that way.

[stevep]

You’re ignoring the fact that MLS has one of the most skewed home advantages of any reasonably decent football league on the planet, which is something bookies don’t ignore.

How am I ignoring that.
Simply stating the numbers

[stegosaurus]

How am I ignoring that.
Simply stating the numbers

Being favoured to win at home in MLS doesn’t indicate whether or not our team is good or bad. Home teams are favoured in MLS because, statistically, they are more likely to get a result. Even bad ones.

Even the Revs, Quakes and Rapids are probably favoured at home, but they’re still dumpster fires.

[stevep]

Being favoured to win at home in MLS doesn’t indicate whether or not our team is good or bad. Home teams are favoured in MLS because, statistically, they are more likely to get a result. Even bad ones.

Even the Revs, Quakes and Rapids are probably favoured at home, but they’re still dumpster fires.

Yes this is true.
But the degree to which a team is favoured is a great indicator on how good your team is.
Look at LAFC odds week to week and compare to other games.

[stegosaurus]

Yes this is true.
But the degree to which a team is favoured is a great indicator on how good your team is.
Look at LAFC odds week to week and compare to other games.

Sure, but then gambling wouldn’t be gambling, would it?

[ensco]

I will turn away after 30 minutes to watch the Raps. It has to be that way. Please don’t be angry.

[OgtheDim]

Game Day :scarf:

[Initial B]

I will turn away after 30 minutes to watch the Raps. It has to be that way. Please don’t be angry.
I'm not, my son and I will be doing the same.

[Gringo Starr]

It's basketball you can just tune in for the last 2 minutes

[OgtheDim]

Reminder that this is De Leon's first game against a team he has a tatoo of who let him go.

[stegosaurus]

Reminder that this is De Leon's first game against a team he has a tatoo of who let him go.

I can picture it now...

Deleon in on goal, but gets taken out. Penalty awarded. Deleon grabs ball from Pozo’s hands, puts it on the spot, and skies it directly into Lake Ontario. Rips off his shirt revealing a DC United kit and kisses his tattoo. Ted Unkel allows it after deferring to Elfath, the VAR assistant. DC wins 6-0 with both Shrek and Deleon scoring hattricks while TFC struggles 10v12. Garber post-game interview explains new MLS exchange rate and tariff rules limiting Canadian teams to 10 players and adding an extra player to American teams playing away.

[Hamilton_Red]

I see Endoh is joining the list of Hasler, and Brian of people who are not the messiah.

Shouldn’t we be resting a few players to make sure that we are competitive in the next game?

[stegosaurus]

I see Endoh is joining the list of Hasler, and Brian of people who are not the messiah.

Shouldn’t we be resting a few players to make sure that we are competitive in the next game?

I’d love to see Endoh play and score to release some of the pent up frustration associated with not scoring on other platforms.

[Areathrasher]

I see Endoh is joining the list of Hasler, and Brian of people who are not the messiah.

Shouldn’t we be resting a few players to make sure that we are competitive in the next game?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/58/04/ae5804c1416b40d1a4ba6344a79d9e58.jpg

[Mikmacdo]

Hoping this is the lineup

Westburg

Auro-Moor-Mavinga-Morrow
——Delgado-Bradley
Deleon-Poezuelo-Osorio
—————Jozy

Not sure if we have seen that lineup this year healthy but that is probably the best 11.

[paul-collins]

I’d love to see Endoh play and score to release some of the pent up frustration associated with not scoring on other platforms.
Jesus that's cold

[magmadragon]

But here is where it gets really interesting, every day the odds for TFC winning the game kept going up. now the odds are on average of all bookmakers around 1.7 or 60% expected win percentage TFC will win the game.


Doesn't that more sound like the bookies trying to balance their book as opposed to us gaining in favour?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

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I guess everybody knowledgeable about betting agrees that TFC is viewed as a pretty strong favorite here.

[OgtheDim]

As an aside to the Endoh stuff - Kloke had an article today in the Athletic that included a Vanney opinion about Endoh - Endoh basically has the same skill set as Delgado & Osorio & De Leon so that's why he isn't in the lineup.

i.e. He doesn't provide width.

So, in some ways he's a backup to 3 current starters and might get to be seen in the V Cup.

[stegosaurus]

As an aside to the Endoh stuff - Kloke had an article today in the Athletic that included a Vanney opinion about Endoh - Endoh basically has the same skill set as Delgado & Osorio & De Leon so that's why he isn't in the lineup.

i.e. He doesn't provide width.

So, in some ways he's a backup to 3 current starters and might get to be seen in the V Cup.

Same skill set as three players with different skill sets. I guess if you can’t figure out what hole he fills you slot him in as an RB?

I don’t really remember him playing in other positions with the first team, but it could be because he was entirely forgettable in those other roles.

[OgtheDim]

Endoh is a wide midfielder without much strength who likes to cut in.

[stevep]

It's basketball you can just tune in for the last 2 minutes

Back and forth back and forth every 15 seconds

[James17930]

Whether it's Endoh or someone else, there needs to be someone/something different going on tonight.

If we trot out the same old line-up and tactics we're going to lose.

[notthesun]

D.C. is rotating almost their entire squad, basically what we did vs. Atlanta

https://twitter.com/dcunited/status/1128797838627037187

[notthesun]

Good: Moor is back. Bad: No Altidore in the 18...

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1128797768938602497

edit: Altidore has a heel injury. (https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1128798718034087937)

[Mikmacdo]

WTF no Jozy, I wanted to see Rooney too. What a let down.

[tfcfans]

Any ideas what is going on with Jozy? this seems odd.....on the gambling note....I know proline is silly betting, but as a matter of comparison to other MLS games tonight, DC was listed at 5.00 and the biggest underdog on the board which seems staggering to me in relation to the strength of these two teams....and without Jozy playing should those odds be anywhere near that amount?

[portu]

Good: Moor is back. Bad: No Altidore in the 18...

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1128797768938602497

edit: Altidore has a heel injury. (https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1128798718034087937)
Is this a joke.

After tonight, Altidore will have played 391 out of 1170 minutes or 33% of the season so far.

[James17930]

Is this a joke.

It's really starting to feel that way, isn't it?

[stevep]

This was done on purpose to make the game more competitive.
He's not injured.
I'm paying for season tickets for this bullshit

[Fort York Redcoat]

I will turn away after 30 minutes to watch the Raps. It has to be that way. Please don’t be angry.

I'll have the Vcup on at the same time. First ever Vcup with CPL teams!

[stegosaurus]

Is this a joke.

After tonight, Altidore will have played 391 out of 1170 minutes or 33% of the season so far.

Pft, we have Terrence “I’m a footballer, I swear!” Boyd on the bench!

[Thomas]

Jozy is just too fragile and beaten up. Love the guy to death in terms of what he has done for us, but even a lesser DP that is healthy and able to play most games for us would be better.

[Auzzy]

Holy crap Hamilton as a single striker, only Boyd on the bench... I'm not expecting anything out of this game, sad.

[FootBallAZ]

Lol no altidore, most likely leaving at half time to watch raptors

[SirBobSaget]

DC has their top 4 attackers Rooney, Acosta, Arriola and Rodriguez starting on the bench. Need to come out strong and score some early goals to keep them there. Seems the May strategy for visiting teams is to rest their key players.

[gracos]

this game is most critical, its time to either put up or shut up, this will tell us a lot about our clubs character

[stegosaurus]

Was Bradley mouthing the words to O Canada.

[jloome]

I will turn away after 30 minutes to watch the Raps. It has to be that way. Please don’t be angry.

Eh, just leave the Raptors until the last five minutes, which'll give you at least a half-hour of viewing time at the point thing start to matter.

[Richard]

Why is Akinola not on the bench?

[SirBobSaget]

Why is Akinola not on the bench?

With USA U20

[SirBobSaget]

Bradleys passing last 2 games has ben abysmal, get him off the ball let others make the key pass

[Richard]

With USA U20

I see. Thanks.

[stegosaurus]

Man, Osorio didn’t learn from the yellow the other game. Still diving.

[notthesun]

D.C. is just daring us to score a goal and we look toothless without the Pozo-Altidore combination.

[stegosaurus]

D.C. is just daring us to score a goal and we look toothless without the Pozo-Altidore combination.

Yep. I’m wondering about midfield Mavinga too.

[SirBobSaget]

D.C. is just daring us to score a goal and we look toothless without the Pozo-Altidore combination.
They're 11 back bunkering until subs come in but TFC has no one besides Hamilton commiting to the attack. Its bunker vs no attack

[stegosaurus]

What a run by Mavinga.

[stegosaurus]

Mavinga is now playing... what position?

He’s playing like goalline to goalline...

[Blkndkr]

Canouse misses ball completely and full on kicks Delgado directly in the shin. Caldwell: “I didnt see anything in it.”

He is such a qwaulity commentator.

[Ultra & Proud]

Mavinga is now playing... what position?

He’s playing like goalline to goalline...

Full field sweeper.

[notthesun]

My god man. Talk about a game where one goal feels like double what you'll need to win.

This is embarrassing if we don't pick up 3 points here. Even Seattle in the 2017 final attacked more than this.

[jloome]

My god man. Talk about a game where one goal feels like double what you'll need to win.

This is embarrassing if we don't pick up 3 points here. Even Seattle in the 2017 final attacked more than this.

Olsen will change it at the half. He won't leave a two-man top out there. Shut up shop, steal a point in the second half. He'll anticipate Vanney being stubborn, telling them to push it wide more and cross it it instead of drifting central, which is clogged.

So expect D.C. to push wide themselves, change the focus to a counter along the wings or via the switch.

As usual, we look lovely but aren't getting it done.

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised if DC came out with wingers, and tried to get in behind DeLeon. Mavinga then has to cover behind him, leaving gaps for the other winger or a striker.

[SirBobSaget]

So frustrating DC lined up to park the bus until late game subs can jump on to get the win, while TFC has no attacking punch whatsoever, just a bunch of guys content to pass it around the perimeter.

[Marauder2]

I would prefer if Osorio worked to get the ball back when he loses it rather than stop and complain to the ref

[notthesun]

Olsen will change it at the half. He won't leave a two-man top out there. Shut up shop, steal a point in the second half. He'll anticipate Vanney being stubborn, telling them to push it wide more and cross it it instead of drifting central, which is clogged.

So expect D.C. to push wide themselves, change the focus to a counter along the wings or via the switch.

As usual, we look lovely but aren't getting it done.

The longer it goes the more Mavinga and Bradley are going to start pushing into the attack, making us more vulnerable to counters, especially since then it'll just be the two slowest guys on the squad back there.

We had 79% possession, I've never seen an opposing team so disinterested in scoring.

[gracos]

we dont need any signings at this time, our team is perfect isnt it Ali ?? no final attack and it may be smart to play your youth but that shouldnt be the final product

[SirBobSaget]

The longer it goes the more Mavinga and Bradley are going to start pushing into the attack, making us more vulnerable to counters, especially since then it'll just be the two slowest guys on the squad back there.

We had 79% possession, I've never seen an opposing team so disinterested in scoring.

Hamilton is the only one pushing the 5 man backline everyone else 15 yards back. What a terrible half this is a giveway game by DC, they only hope to get a point or steal a win late.

[General Woolfe]

The same mediocre rubbish we’ve been fed for most of the season. Too much reliance on Pozuelo to do everything. The guy is obviously talented but worth a multi million dollar salary? I’m not so sure. Auro is one of the worst players I’ve seen Don the red shirt. He’s had two chances on a plate and fluffed them both. Every time he attacks down the right it’s the same thing. Rather than take on the full back and put over a telling cross, he either turns back or passes inside. Whoever thought this guy was an adequate replacement for Betashour should be fired on the spot. Delgado hasn’t kicked a ball all season yet he’s guaranteed a start. Why doesn’t Vanney give Chapman a start God knows he can’t be any worse. We’re absolutely toothless in attack and completely devoid of ideas. It’s either a speculative shot from the edge of the box with four or five DC players in front of the shooter, or we get to the byline and hit a mindless, aimless, ball into the middle in the hope a TFC player can get on the end of it. We really need to give some thought to the Altidore situation. He is our singular striking option but spends too much time injured. Is really hurt or just content to pick up a season’s wages for half a season’s work. Curtis need a kick in backside for thinking we could go into the season with Hamilton as the sole back up for Altidore. Try big Canadian tries his heart out but the truth is he'll never be more than TFC II level. At least Moor and Mavinga look stable but they haven’t really been tested and there’s still time for the coach’s nephew to screw up and cost us before this game is out. Again, whoever made the decision to keep Zavaleta and let Hagglund go, should be fired on the spot. NH might have had his weaknesses but he borough balance as well as a goal threat.

[jloome]

Aaaand, right on cue...

[Hamilton_Red]

Strange substitution to take DeLeon off at the half.

[notthesun]

Gameplan for Olsen pretty obvious now. He told his guys to buy them 45 mins so that they could limit the big guys before they play Houston this weekend.

I would be upset it worked so well but the way we were attacking, them opening up probably helps us more than it does them.

[Ultra & Proud]

Have you seen Hagglund now? Plus we got a ton of $$$ to not use for him. That was a good deal for us.

[SirBobSaget]

Gameplan for Olsen pretty obvious now. He told his guys to buy them 45 mins so that they could limit the big guys before they play Houston this weekend.

I would be upset it worked so well but the way we were attacking, them opening up probably helps us more than it does them.

But why didnt Bradley jump forward as an Am instead of sitting back with the 3 defenders covering no one. Awful 1st half strategy now theyre up against it 2nd half

[jloome]

"Hits tha' target, it's all you can do," Caldwell says, ignoring the part about goals.

[Ultra & Proud]

Might as well put on Boyd. Can't be any worse than Hamilton. If that fails toss Zavaleta up there. At least he can't cost us a goal there.

[jloome]

Might as well put on Boyd. Can't be any worse than Hamilton. If that fails toss Zavaleta up there. At least he can't cost us a goal there.

He was a bit unlucky in that first half, with the crossbar and the volley being right in front of Hamid.

[jloome]

AS predicted, DC have moved to a three-man front.

Edit: I may be wrong. Caldwell says they're in a 352 still. Arriola and Acosta are definitely wingers though, not fullbacks.

[Yohan]

Freaking SHOOT THE FREAKING BALL

[SirBobSaget]

Delgado wtf!!!! My god if anyone needs a change of scenary its him.

[Hamilton_Red]

Auro and Delgado.... one of you take a fucking shot for fucksake!

[General Woolfe]

Too many players frightened to take responsibility. Auro should have buried that one, but instead, he passes, then another pass, then the chance is gone. That move summed up everything that’s wrong with our attacking play this season

We all know how this is going to end. A DC break in the final 10 mins and we give up the game on a counter attack

[ag futbol]

This game again demonstrates why we need wide players. Embarrassing that we continue to short change the team.

[Ultra & Proud]

Well we're getting back to our usual slow it down and be comfortable with pointless possession game.

[Inklink]

Hamilton is bad.

[Yohan]

And Hamilton... so many chances, so few goals. There's a reason why he won't grow any more. He's reached his potential, which is sad

[SirBobSaget]

This game again demonstrates why we need wide players. Embarrassing that we continue to short change the team.

But were comfortable with the team we have with no wide threats and the only consistent scorer injured .

[Hamilton_Red]

We need quality footballers...

Hamilton and Delgado are not good enough. Neither is Morrow anymore.

Oso had a shit game as well.

[Ultra & Proud]

If Hamilton was American he'd be drummed off the team by this forum but since he's Canadian....

[ag futbol]

Lol at Caldwell calling Hamilton scuffing a shot “great defending” by DCU

[General Woolfe]

Terrible from Hamilton. Too slow to take advantage of the break and a shot as weak as a kitten

[Ultra & Proud]

We need quality footballers...

Hamilton and Delgado are not good enough. Neither is Morrow anymore.

Oso had a shit game as well.
Yes to all this.

Chapman should start over Delgado and DeLeon over Morrow. Be nice to start someone over Hamilton but we have nobody.

[Hamilton_Red]

No playoffs again this year. the team isn’t good enough.

[Yohan]

well at least the grass looks good

[General Woolfe]

Osorio needs to cut out th diving. Having said that how Vanney can pull him ahead of Delgado beggars belief

[Ultra & Proud]

No playoffs again this year. the team isn’t good enough.

Wouldn't say that yet. Summer window changes plus possible managerial changes could shake things up.

[Yohan]

was Bradley eating a beef jerky during that injury break? lol

[SirBobSaget]

Get a class coach in, Vanney looks good when he has 4x wages on the field but when less cant get any result. Garde in Montreal is working wonders even with Piatti out. Dos Santos has Vancouver getting results with a lesser squad. Vanney is done

[jloome]

And Hamilton... so many chances, so few goals. There's a reason why he won't grow any more. He's reached his potential, which is sad

Edit: I hope not. I think we've managed his growth very poorly and that better striker coaching could've produced a more active, effective player.

But beyond that, he's 22. I thought Osorio had peaked back in 2015 and that the only way he'd go further was if he bulked up and got more aggressive. And he proved me completely wrong.

So, yeah, I'm disappointed now that he's getting a shot he's not taking advantage. But I'm not sure he's cooked.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think Hamilton is done too. He is a poacher and will never be anything else. Problem is he doesn't move enough or use any of his potential physicality to get into good positions to poach. It pretty much has to fall to him or be a defensive blunder for him to capitalize.

[notthesun]

Respect to Bradley pressing the ball like an animal in the 91st minute, his pressure got us the ball back twice in 20 seconds.

[jloome]

So... anyone wonder if there's a Vanney v. Curtis power struggle going now? He played Boyd and Hamilton together up top tonight. He played Deleon wide, where he was (ineffective) as a FB for D.C.

I just expect drama with these kinds of guys. Not saying it's there, but coupled with last week's decision to start four bench players on the road in Atlanta...

I wonder if Vanney isn't telling MLSE "we need players right fucking now" while Curtis is saying "We can do more with what I got him on the cheap."

[ag futbol]

Meh. Where is the guy on this team that puts the ball in the net? That commands the attention of opposing players? That can get on the and or Pozuelo’s passes?

Not good enough to have one quality striker and for that striker to be injury prone.

Roster management right now is a joke. There’s no serious plan or ambition to be great

[Hamilton_Red]

Honestly - whoever signed Terrence Boyd for TFC should be fired - immediately.

[SirBobSaget]

Vanney or Curtis needs to be gone. Cant beat a team that was praying for a draw, 1 pt in the last 3 home games. So many world class cioaches looking for work Vanney is not world class.

[Soccerpro]

What absolute garbage from TFC. If you sign your constantly injured DP striker to an extension (altidore), you better have a plan B.

Replace two of your stars (Vazquez and Giovinco) with one midfielder (Polo) is asking for trouble.

[notthesun]

So... anyone wonder if there's a Vanney v. Curtis power struggle going now? He played Boyd and Hamilton together up top tonight. He played Deleon wide, where he was (ineffective) as a FB for D.C.

I just expect drama with these kinds of guys. Not saying it's there, but coupled with last week's decision to start four bench players on the road in Atlanta...

I wonder if Vanney isn't telling MLSE "we need players right fucking now" while Curtis is saying "We can do more with what I got him on the cheap."

I have no doubt Vanney is pissed off he got zero reinforcements but he's not going to purposefully tank games just to make a point, especially when he knows he could be on the hot seat this season and this GM didn't hire him.

[gracos]

is this the best we can be, mediocre is unacceptable considering how much money our club has, we should be investing in infrastructure, and management, Ali was a horrible decision and soon Vanney may be relieved of his duties because he doesnt get the support in which he needs for our team to be great

[SirBobSaget]

Honestly - whoever signed Terrence Boyd for TFC should be fired - immediately.

Ricketts on his worst day was 10 times more threatening. I have no faith in the whole managent team. Leiweike was he boss after that it fell apart.

[notthesun]

No sugarcoating this, Ali Curtis lost us 2 points today. This should be a win every time.

It's obvious we need Moor and Altidore playing to win games. There's nobody else consistent enough to expect otherwise.

[69Chevy396]

Watched the last five minutes. not on my TV. Everyone in the room said the same thing, at the same time....”this team without Giovinco, is shit”.

[Hamilton_Red]

Exactly... ricketts was twice the player boyd was and offered something different with his speed.

[stegosaurus]

We need quality footballers...

Hamilton and Delgado are not good enough. Neither is Morrow anymore.

Oso had a shit game as well.

Well, imagine that. We’re playing our Starting XI minus Jozy. The goals aren’t coming like they were apparently supposed to. It wasn’t hard to see that before, and now it’s just obvious.

No one looks good in front of the net and Pozo isn’t going to get out from that many defenders to get chances. Only thing missing from this match that is a DC red card or two to ensure we don’t win. Not being able to break down bunkerball is a regression. No one has the hunger to score goals apparently. There’s no one coming off the bench to help.

We had chances. A whole bunch. There were stretches of the game we looked good. Hamid made the saves, but slow, weak shots right to the keeper probably helped.

Pozo looked good. Our defense looked pretty good (Nephew is Nephew though). Mavinga played very well. Bradley was good for most of the game too.

Everyone else either outright sucked or made some terrible mistakes.

[General Woolfe]

More utter crap from a TFC side that’s clearly lost it’s way. Ali Curtis simply has to be replaced before the next transfer window opens and God’s knows how his replacement will fix the mess he’s made of this team. It could well be that Vanney’s time is up as well. From his line up to his subs he clearly didn’t have a clue tonight. I’ve spent more enjoyable time at the dentist than watching that utterly clueless performance tonight. We saw one side move top of the division tonight and another move closer to mid-table mediocrity. Make no mistake club needs major surgery from top to bottom.

[General Woolfe]

This team with Giovinco was shit last year as well F off with your Giovinco agenda already hes shit in the Saudi league. Arent you done with TFC already?
Maybe if manning had sorted out a deal when we were champions we might still have the little maestro instead of a player who pulls off a class move 50% of the time

[portu]

Didn't get to watch this match but I'm surprised at the level of anger towards the squad on this site. Of course, I agree with being pissed at not shooting for the stars, but on a realistic level this season was always going to be like 2014/15. Players like Delgado aren't as useless as some would like to think.

[OgtheDim]

Game live very different from what people not there saying.
35 shots. Lots of quick ball movement

[General Woolfe]

Honestly - whoever signed Terrence Boyd for TFC should be fired - immediately.
It seemed Curtis went on a bargain hunt signing every average MLS player up for grabs to fill the squad. Boyd, Ciman, DeLeon, are not players who will win you championships.

You really have to wonder why Bez, Séba, Vazquez, and Hagglund all left at the same time. I’d go higher than Curtis and ask questions of Manning and MLSE. It seems one record breaking season was good enough for them. Ever since it’s been downsizing and cutting costs, or at least it certainly looks that way

[OgtheDim]

Bradley in the second half bossed things. Bad shooting and Delgado not confident. Fun game to watch. Defence solid. When they brought on their big guns, we held them. Lots of good in that game but somebody needs to start scoring.

[General Woolfe]

Didn't get to watch this match but I'm surprised at the level of anger towards the squad on this site. Of course, I agree with being pissed at not shooting for the stars, but on a realistic level this season was always going to be like 2014/15. Players like Delgado aren't as useless as some would like to think.
He’s been utter rubbish for over a season now. Yet Vanney always starts him ahead of Chapman, every single effin time

[notthesun]

He’s been utter rubbish for over a season now. Yet Vanney always starts him ahead of Chapman, every single effin time

Chapman can't defend

[portu]

He’s been utter rubbish for over a season now. Yet Vanney always starts him ahead of Chapman, every single effin time
He's really not that bad, man. And he's a completely different player from Chapman.

In general, I definitely feel like there's a grudge against Delgado for that CCL miss.

[portu]

Exactly... ricketts was twice the player boyd was and offered something different with his speed.

Ricketts was twice the player Boyd is because of the speed haha

[jloome]

Game live very different from what people not there saying.
35 shots. Lots of quick ball movement

Ten of those were blocked by DC packing the box.

I mean, we had about half our possession in the final third, so the domination was obvious. The lack of creativity however was equally glaring.

On a couple of occasions the ball almost ran away from us, forcing one of our players to keep it moving with a last-second stretching touch. Those occasions, where we gave them a whiff of stealing the ball but held it, created more chances than any of the tic-tac-toe.

[flambe]

Lots of good in that game but somebody needs to start scoring.

Problem is, we don’t have “healthy” players that can be counted on to do that.

Our creative side is just Poz, and he’s gonna get tired real quick as the season progresses having already played a full season before coming here.

[metaxa]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[metaxa]

Boyd, Hamilton are not good enough... plain and simple.

[metaxa]

Altidore is the only one who can score and hes injured 1/2 the time... FTC seriously need other options

[Ultra & Proud]

It seemed Curtis went on a bargain hunt signing every average MLS player up for grabs to fill the squad. Boyd, Ciman, DeLeon, are not players who will win you championships.

You really have to wonder why Bez, Séba, Vazquez, and Hagglund all left at the same time. I’d go higher than Curtis and ask questions of Manning and MLSE. It seems one record breaking season was good enough for them. Ever since it’s been downsizing and cutting costs, or at least it certainly looks that way

Bez was in charge when we got DeLeon & Ciman so...

[DinamoTFC]

Steve buffery reporting Deleon was pissed for being taken of at half against his former team. He was aggressive and playing well. Yet somehow Delgado and Zavaleta manage to stay on the pitch when we're trying to score.

[OgtheDim]

Vanney in the presser basically saying team needs more firepower without Jozy & he has been saying that for a while. I'd like to see the video to get the nuance of that comment but it's sounds less like a "Ali you messed up" comment & more a "these guys gotta get better" thing.

[OgtheDim]

Steve buffery reporting Deleon was pissed for being taken of at half against his former team. He was aggressive and playing well. Yet somehow Delgado and Zavaleta manage to stay on the pitch when we're trying to score.
He was aggressive but DCU let him have the ball as he has no left foot so provided no width. Morrow on was the right choice.

[pfk]

What a frustrating game to watch. TFC had 71.3% possession and 13 shots on goals (34 shots, I believe). TFC should have won by several goals, but there is no quality finishing. The team just seems to look for Pozo to do something. This is happening when Pozo is getting triple teamed by DC.

If someone can explain when Hamilton and Boyd should continue, I’d love to hear it. They just stink.

I’ll give credit to our defence today. They all played pretty well, even Zavaleta too.

[portu]

Altidore is the only one who can score and hes injured 1/2 the time... FTC seriously need other options
2/3 of the time this season actually

[tfcfans]

No Altidore - no chance offensively.....until there are are other reasonable alternatives up front (ie. we sign forwards who are better quality than what we have in Hamilton, Boyd, Akinola, etc.), this team will simply struggle to score goals, save for a few miracle plays every few weeks by Pozuelo....I predicted before the season started that if Altidore played the equivalent of 25 games (2250 minutes or just under 3/4 of the season), they would be a playoff team somewhere in the middle (3rd-5th), if he plays significantly less than that, they are a 7th-10th place team in the conference.....he has already missed 6.5 games out of 11..... based on my predictions unless he only misses another 3 games or so this year, I don't see this team being a playoff team as presently constructed.....

[backbeat]

i really have no idea what most of you are going on about

TFC played a totally dominant game, except putting the ball in the back of the net - i get that part

but by the comments on here you'd think we just stunk up the joint

we dominated, completely

if we play like that game in and game out we'll easily be in the playoffs and with the summer window a top team to challenge to the end

it sucks that we didn't sign anyone for sure but tonight was the most exciting game i've been at in a long, long time

[DinamoTFC]

He was aggressive but DCU let him have the ball as he has no left foot so provided no width. Morrow on was the right choice.

Morrow on was good. But Deleon should have stayed on the pitch regardless. He was clearly motivated to perform.

[reggie]

so whats jozy s issue this time?

[stevep]

i really have no idea what most of you are going on about

TFC played a totally dominant game, except putting the ball in the back of the net - i get that part

but by the comments on here you'd think we just stunk up the joint

we dominated, completely

if we play like that game in and game out we'll easily be in the playoffs and with the summer window a top team to challenge to the end

it sucks that we didn't sign anyone for sure but tonight was the most exciting game i've been at in a long, long time


it is funny how two people can see something so differently. I thought it was a snorefest.The New England game and the NYCFC game and especially the Minnesota game were exciting.
I was at the game tonight and I just sat there watching the game blankly with no emotion, no excitement at all because I knew we couldn't score.
There is no talent to score. We need Jozy and Giovinco back.
It was a total exercise in futility. Other TFC games you always felt we can come back and tie, we can score goals , win games. There was a faith in the squad.
This group tonight tried hard I will grant you that, but they no quality to finish. none whatsoever.

This team is now BORING to watch. This has been 3 home games in a row of boring football. It's quite sad for me actually as I love going to TFC games.
Is 2016 season and 2017 every going to come back?? Boy do I miss that. It is so boring and dull football now its actually really sad for me.


PS: Hamilton that shot on net on was that of a child's. That was bad. Hopefully think little stretch has shown everyone that Hamiton and Ayo are TFC2 level

[Joe Kool]

I didn't read all the posts here yet but I thought TFC had energy tonight that we haven't seen in a few games. We did everything but score despite some decent shots. A number of blown shot attempts too. Just didn't have a finisher. DC's game plan was to park the bus and try to counter. That almost backfired on them. I think they only mustered up a few counters and I don't think they had a shot on net all game. Very disappointing to get a draw. Oh well I got a fanny pack....

[TFC1986]

Style of play is still the same, when we won our first couple of games. Communication sucked then, and still does now.
We can beat low tier teams, but won't be winning the cup.
Someone did a poll earlier, before season started, and it's going to be spot on come end of regular season.
What we saw today is the best of the players abilities to play off one another.
Got lucky that DC didn't score on there counters. They had a couple of good chances.

[Mikmacdo]

Delgado should be benched. Hes an ok backup thats all. Hamilton clearly can't start in mls... As a backup he seems to play better. I feel sorry for pozuelo. Deleon tries hard like delgado but isnt good enough. Play layrea up front in deleons spot ... At least hes fast and can dribble by guys.

[ag futbol]

I didn't read all the posts here yet but I thought TFC had energy tonight that we haven't seen in a few games. We did everything but score despite some decent shots. A number of blown shot attempts too. Just didn't have a finisher. DC's game plan was to park the bus and try to counter. That almost backfired on them. I think they only mustered up a few counters and I don't think they had a shot on net all game. Very disappointing to get a draw. Oh well I got a fanny pack....
The issue I see with this is: missing the chances we had is about what i’d expect given the quality of the players on the roster.

DC didn’t exactly come to play either. While I can appreciate they didn’t just hack Pozuelo to the ground like most other teams, TFC “looking good” but not scoring was exactly their game plan.

There is no moral victory or silver lining here.

[OgtheDim]

i really have no idea what most of you are going on about

...

Very different game feeling when there.

Around the 30th minute or so, people cheered because of the dominance - that was how good the performance was (minus the finish which has to get better)

[ensco]

Just watched the highlights. Had to be 5-6 decent chances from edge of the box or just outside that TFC missed. Actually not just missed, but not even taken properly.

We can’t score from any kind of distance, so teams are packing the box and taking their chances.

[JoesphNdo]

- Watches a game where we completely dominate the conference leaders at home, outshoot them 35 to 3 (!), and have 71% possession

- Read thread about how shit team and all players are

Wtf? This was the best performance of the season. The only frustration is how reliant we are on Jozy, if he plays we win 2-0 easily. It's a huge drop off to the backup especially if we force them to play up front on their own which isn't Hamiltons game at all. I still worry re-upping him was a mistake based purely on the amount of minutes we'll have to play without him.

But otherwise you can't ask for more than that. If one of those 35 ! shots goes in and the game is otherwise identical all the posters talking about how bad it was would be praising it as an amazing performance

[Canary10]

Anyone have good information on what Jozy's injury is? During the broadcast they said a heel injury, but weren't specific. That could be anything from broken bones to an achilles.

[pdogg]

He's really not that bad, man. And he's a completely different player from Chapman.

In general, I definitely feel like there's a grudge against Delgado for that CCL miss.

I heard something in the stands last night that was an interesting take re: Delgado. "People think that Delgado sucks and still hasn't gotten over the CCL missed shot. Really, it's that people haven't gotten over Delgado's missed shot, he's playing the same as he always has."

[Prof]

so whats jozy s issue this time?

He's a big Raptor's Fan and was watching the game.:rolleyes:

[Canary10]

I think signing Boyd and letting Ricketts go was a mistake. Yeah Ricketts' finishing wasn't great, but he had speed and was actually relatively decent in the air. Boyd has no finishing or speed. I hope Ricketts wasn't driven out by all the supporter negativity around him.

At the moment, our wide play is useless. Even if we could put in good crosses, we have no one particularly good in the air to win them. I'm not sure investing in wingers even makes sense without someone who can score with his head. Unless they are a type to cut in and beat two or three people individually, which I doubt we get with TAM money.

[C.Ronaldo]

- Watches a game where we completely dominate the conference leaders at home, outshoot them 35 to 3 (!), and have 71% possession

- Read thread about how shit team and all players are

Wtf? This was the best performance of the season. The only frustration is how reliant we are on Jozy, if he plays we win 2-0 easily. It's a huge drop off to the backup especially if we force them to play up front on their own which isn't Hamiltons game at all. I still worry re-upping him was a mistake based purely on the amount of minutes we'll have to play without him.

But otherwise you can't ask for more than that. If one of those 35 ! shots goes in and the game is otherwise identical all the posters talking about how bad it was would be praising it as an amazing performance

thank you

everyone calling hamilton shit.
Hes not, this is just not his style.

He needs a partner or someone closer behind him.
He has decent passing / flick ons, he can poach, he can hold the ball up when he has to but he cannot create plays. Not yet anyways.

my problem with Hamilton is he is does use his strength and he doesnt take balls down like a elite striker can. hes a big dude who can shoot.

[C.Ronaldo]

I think signing Boyd and letting Ricketts go was a mistake. Yeah Ricketts' finishing wasn't great, but he had speed and was actually relatively decent in the air. Boyd has no finishing or speed. I hope Ricketts wasn't driven out by all the supporter negativity around him.

At the moment, our wide play is useless. Even if we could put in good crosses, we have no one particularly good in the air to win them. I'm not sure investing in wingers even makes sense without someone who can score with his head. Unless they are a type to cut in and beat two or three people individually, which I doubt we get with TAM money.

boyd will never get us back into a game.
All i see is someone who can crash and bang to close out a game.
He really was a waste of a signing

[stevep]

Dear MLSE

please let me know a few days before the game if Jozy is playing. If hes not playing fine just let me know beforehand please. do the decent and honorable thing.
If he is not playing I will sell my seats on stubhub.
Its been 3 games in a row at home where he hasn't played.
If he is not playing I know exactly how the game will play out.
the opponent will park the bus, play for the tie or transition goal to win the game

not worth watching and definitely not worth paying for
let someone else pay for that shitshow

[Canary10]

It's maybe good to remember that it's hard for any team to break down a team coming in with the game plan DC did.

[Mikmacdo]

boyd will never get us back into a game.
All i see is someone who can crash and bang to close out a game.
He really was a waste of a signing
One thing that pisses me off is when tfc signs garbage Americans when there are canadians out there who can do the job better for less money.

[stevep]

It's maybe good to remember that it's hard for any team to break down a team coming in with the game plan DC did.

even the manchester city of mls cant do it

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2019-05-04-los-angeles-football-club-vs-chicago-fire/stats

ive come up with a solution for mls to fix this problem. because this parking the bus strategy will kill the league.
solution is even for the slightest infraction in the penalty zone call a penalty against the bus parkers.
penalty kick should result in a goal and we got a game.
also, the added benefit is it drops the opponents win probability down to around 15% after the goal

Drew Fisher had a few opportunities to call pentalty in the red zone a few times however he was to scared to do this.
didnt want to look like Canadian favouritism

[stegosaurus]

- Watches a game where we completely dominate the conference leaders at home, outshoot them 35 to 3 (!), and have 71% possession

- Read thread about how shit team and all players are

Wtf? This was the best performance of the season. The only frustration is how reliant we are on Jozy, if he plays we win 2-0 easily. It's a huge drop off to the backup especially if we force them to play up front on their own which isn't Hamiltons game at all. I still worry re-upping him was a mistake based purely on the amount of minutes we'll have to play without him.

But otherwise you can't ask for more than that. If one of those 35 ! shots goes in and the game is otherwise identical all the posters talking about how bad it was would be praising it as an amazing performance

DC were happy to let us dominate possession and didn’t bother much. If their gameplan is to play for a draw and let us kick the ball around, then they succeeded.

We had a lot of shots. Of the ones on target, Hamid made some saves. Of the ones on target including those saved by Hamid, the large majority were of terrible quality.

We could have had even more shots but people stepped into the box confused as to what to do next, dribbled into defenders, missed passes, passed instead of shooting, took too many touches, dove — our attack looked neutered in terms of ability to finish.

That’s exactly what DC wanted.

The team didn’t look bad. We looked good, just with no end product, and DC certainly wasn’t going out of their way to try to interrupt the kick about. There were players who had bad games, made mistakes, and lacked quality. Some had great games.

The people unequivocally saying how bad the team is aren’t right, but neither are the ones saying that the attack is good and that goals will come, that defense is our only issue.

If Mavinga is out making crosses into the box from the opposing goalline or dribbling into the box while simultaneously defending, that’s a guy who wants to win.

If you dribble into the box only to slow down, stop, look for Pozo, hesitate, then whiff a terrible shot or pass...that’s not a winning mentality.

[stegosaurus]

even the manchester city of mls cant do it

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2019-05-04-los-angeles-football-club-vs-chicago-fire/stats

ive come up with a solution for mls to fix this problem. because this parking the bus strategy will kill the league.
solution is even for the slightest infraction in the penalty zone call a penalty against the bus parkers.
penalty kick should result in a goal and we got a game.
also, the added benefit is it drops the opponents win probability down to around 15% after the goal

Drew Fisher had a few opportunities to call pentalty in the red zone a few times however he was to scared to do this.
didnt want to look like Canadian favouritism

This would be pretty ridiculous.

Parking the bus is a tactical decision and style of play that makes sense for certain teams or in certain matchups. Teams and managers do it in every top league.

[OgtheDim]

If Mavinga is out making crosses into the box from the opposing goalline or dribbling into the box while simultaneously defending, that’s a guy who wants to win.

If you dribble into the box only to slow down, stop, look for Pozo, hesitate, then whiff a terrible shot or pass...that’s not a winning mentality.

Or they lack confidence.

It was funny cause Auro took a couple of shots from outside but from inside the box both he & Delgado do not trust themselves. Chapman just shoots the rock.

[stegosaurus]

Or they lack confidence.

It was funny cause Auro took a couple of shots from outside but from inside the box both he & Delgado do not trust themselves. Chapman just shoots the rock.

Confidence is part of a winning mentality, unfortunately.

Auro actually had one of our best chances from outside the box, though I think Hamid probably would have had it had it not hit the crossbar.

[stevep]

This would be pretty ridiculous.

Parking the bus is a tactical decision and style of play that makes sense for certain teams or in certain matchups. Teams and managers do it in every top league.

this league does not have the quality players to defeat this strategy.
ie LAFC at home couldn't defeat it.
I think its a brilliant idea

[ag futbol]

this league does not have the quality players to defeat this strategy.
ie LAFC at home couldn't defeat it.
I think its a brilliant idea
I’d disagree. We did just that in 2017. Nobody was coming to BMO to play, they knew they were outmatched.

[Section_105]

besides clinical finishing (which is really tough with a megabus in front of goal) I think we lacked speed in moving down the field.

We had one breakaway opportunity in the first with Deleon getting towards the net but then....no ideas. Every other time we turned over the ball, by the time we reached the final third we had allowed at least 7 of their bus passengers back behind the ball. What the actual fuck does it take to just keep running up the damn field and force the issue in the box. Why would we allow them to reset so easily with so little pressure.

Funny, I sound mad but I think the team overall played really really well. Domination even in the face of DCU willingly giving up possession. When they had the ball there was little that we let them do.

So while that feels like a loss for sure there is a lot of positives to take away as well.

[Section_105]

I’d disagree. We did just that in 2017. Nobody was coming to BMO to play, they knew they were outmatched.

This. one more quality player off of Pozo and the bus breaks down.

[stegosaurus]

this league does not have the quality players to defeat this strategy.
ie LAFC at home couldn't defeat it.
I think its a brilliant idea

We won the league against a bunch of teams parking the bus, lol.

If we can’t beat a team playing like that with 30+ shots on net I think maybe changing the rules of the sport is probably not the first or most intelligent option.

That’s like not being able to use block in Street Fighter because your friend doesn’t know how to get around it.

[ag futbol]

This. one more quality player off of Pozo and the bus breaks down.
I completely agree one good quality piece would potentially hugely change perception.

But I take issue with management through several windows only having one true wide player on the roster and no real offensive firepower at fullback. It’s clear the team needs these things to function.

If our new mega signing suddenly misses a week, we’re potentially right back to where we are now. The run-of-the mill signings should have been added a long time ago. They are low risk at the end of the day. Curtis has given himself a long laundry list of things to do in the summer window.

[Mikmacdo]

I completely agree one good quality piece would potentially hugely change perception.

But I take issue with management through several windows only having one true wide player on the roster and no real offensive firepower at fullback. It’s clear the team needs these things to function.

If our new mega signing suddenly misses a week, we’re potentially right back to where we are now. The run-of-the mill signings should have been added a long time ago. They are low risk at the end of the day. Curtis has given himself a long laundry list of things to do in the summer window.

What wide player do we have? I see 0 true wingers.

[ag futbol]

What wide player do we have? I see 0 true wingers.
DeLeon, technically. Maybe not in the truest sense but i’d count that as one.

Not really a starter IMO

[Mikmacdo]

I completely agree one good quality piece would potentially hugely change perception.

But I take issue with management through several windows only having one true wide player on the roster and no real offensive firepower at fullback. It’s clear the team needs these things to function.

If our new mega signing suddenly misses a week, we’re potentially right back to where we are now. The run-of-the mill signings should have been added a long time ago. They are low risk at the end of the day. Curtis has given himself a long laundry list of things to do in the summer window.


DeLeon, technically. Maybe not in the truest sense but i’d count that as one.

Not really a starter IMO

He was a fullback in DC. To me hes a backup fullback or wingback. Hes too slow and 0 creativity. I would rather try layrea on the wing.

[portu]

I heard something in the stands last night that was an interesting take re: Delgado. "People think that Delgado sucks and still hasn't gotten over the CCL missed shot. Really, it's that people haven't gotten over Delgado's missed shot, he's playing the same as he always has."
I so agree with this. And over the last little bit I've seen a marked confidence in his touch/passing and willingness to shoot the ball. The guy is perfectly serviceable.

[shwade]

Curtis is like Chidi from the Good Place - this guy can't pull the trigger on anything. Probably has a million venn diagrams and spreadsheets about targets but can't get anything done.

[magmadragon]

I really don't understand why we don't keep pushing forward? We pause and then let them regroup. Hamilton is now surrounded by white shirts. What the hell is he going to do in that situation?

That and the constant passing in the box. Just take the damn shot because giving it to Pozuelo when he is surrounded isn't going to work....and that's if the pass even makes it to him.

That is basic stuff. Why can my entire section see this but the guys on the field can't?

[OgtheDim]

That was the most parked bus I've seen in my life. We had Moor & Mavinga & Zavs parked just outside of their 18 for most of the first half.

[stegosaurus]

I so agree with this. And over the last little bit I've seen a marked confidence in his touch/passing and willingness to shoot the ball. The guy is perfectly serviceable.

That’s the thing. He is, but in this system the flaws are more glaring and impactful especially when playing teams on the counter.

That said, I don’t trust him to score at this point.

[OgtheDim]

I really don't understand why we don't keep pushing forward? We pause and then let them regroup. Hamilton is now surrounded by white shirts. What the hell is he going to do in that situation?

That and the constant passing in the box. Just take the damn shot because giving it to Pozuelo when he is surrounded isn't going to work....and that's if the pass even makes it to him.

That is basic stuff. Why can my entire section see this but the guys on the field can't?

One the one most egregious Hamilton play when he held on and let 4 players surround him only to fluff his shot, I seem to recall Poz yelling at him to just shoot the ball.

[reggie]

im not going to piss on jhams.he is who he is.a 70 k 3rd string striker that took a pay cut to stay with the team.i blame management for this.they know that jozy will miss 10 to 15 games a year and yet they go cheap on his back up year after year.

[stegosaurus]

im not going to piss on jhams.he is who he is.a 70 k 3rd string striker that took a pay cut to stay with the team.i blame management for this.they know that jozy will miss 10 to 15 games a year and yet they go cheap on his back up year after year.

Of course. Very few people were deluded enough to think Hamilton could start up top by himself and still be effective and productive.

[reggie]

Of course. Very few people were deluded enough to think Hamilton could start up top by himself and still be effective and productive.
never mind the fans...the club is delusional to think that.year after year they go cheap.at least we had gio to pick up the slack.they have blown 8 points at home because of a lack of finishing.

[glaze]

Has anyone figured out why we signed Boyd?
With the new playoff format all of these lost points matter.

[OgtheDim]

I wasn't peeing on him but when you are with the ball and nobody between you and the goal, take your shot.

I thought Boyd had a decent hold up play game last night - final touch has been off but his first touch is an improvement on Ricketts.

[Ultra & Proud]

I thought Boyd had a decent hold up play game last night - final touch has been off but his first touch is an improvement on Ricketts.
I didn't see much in him good or bad because he didn't have a lot of opportunities yesterday but I saw enough of Hamilton to think that Boyd should get a full start on Saturday. At least he runs and at worst, will hold the ball up and maybe bang a round a bit in the box. Hamilton shies away from crosses and doesn't physically contest anything. He gladly stands behind the defenders hoping the ball happens to fall his way and if anything, he is a spectator. He has no impetus. He is just 'there'.

[reggie]

I wasn't peeing on him but when you are with the ball and nobody between you and the goal, take your shot.

I thought Boyd had a decent hold up play game last night - final touch has been off but his first touch is an improvement on Ricketts.
it was jus a general statement.i wasnt insinuating that you are peeing on him..lol
im jus frustrated with the management not vanney the other 2 dudes.that talk a big game and have nothing to show for it.all the home blown points already.lucky if we make the playoffs at this rate.

[stevep]

I didn't see much in him good or bad because he didn't have a lot of opportunities yesterday but I saw enough of Hamilton to think that Boyd should get a full start on Saturday. At least he runs and at worst, will hold the ball up and maybe bang a round a bit in the box. Hamilton shies away from crosses and doesn't physically contest anything. He gladly stands behind the defenders hoping the ball happens to fall his way and if anything, he is a spectator. He has no impetus. He is just 'there'.

Yes he is just there.
I think the Hamilton, akinola experiment is over.
In a way it's good.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yes he is just there.
I think the Hamilton, akinola experiment is over.
In a way it's good.
I wouldn't give up on Akinola just yet. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities. Hamilton has had a few years and never really established himself as MLS ready. He is probably average USL to be honest.

[ag futbol]

never mind the fans...the club is delusional to think that.year after year they go cheap.at least we had gio to pick up the slack.they have blown 8 points at home because of a lack of finishing.
How badly to you have to screw up on talent evaluation / roster decisions to go from telling this guy last off-season he barely has a job to making him definitively your second choice striker?

I agree with you. I think he’s a decent depth guy on the roster but shouldn’t be up too by himself starting. That’s not setting anybody up for success

[OgtheDim]

I think people, including me, forget that up until 4 months ago, this team



thought it had 2 DP strikers
thought it had a TAM long ball passing AM
played 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 exclusively


Given what they are trying to do without a full off season & pre season, I'll take where they are right now offensive wise, especially the last couple of games where they actually tried to penetrate quickly as against the swing the ball around the back approach.

[MightyDM]

thank you

everyone calling hamilton shit.
Hes not, this is just not his style.

He needs a partner or someone closer behind him.
He has decent passing / flick ons, he can poach, he can hold the ball up when he has to but he cannot create plays. Not yet anyways.

my problem with Hamilton is he is does use his strength and he doesnt take balls down like a elite striker can. hes a big dude who can shoot.

This is far more fair. hamilton isnt experienced enough to dominate against two CB's as a lone striker, but given a bit of space he scores - so he needs to play up in a '2". He is a good young player who has the gift of putting the ball in the net. But can't bully pro level defenders the way Jozy can and shouldnt be asked to.

[MightyDM]

I didn't see much in him good or bad because he didn't have a lot of opportunities yesterday but I saw enough of Hamilton to think that Boyd should get a full start on Saturday. At least he runs and at worst, will hold the ball up and maybe bang a round a bit in the box. Hamilton shies away from crosses and doesn't physically contest anything. He gladly stands behind the defenders hoping the ball happens to fall his way and if anything, he is a spectator. He has no impetus. He is just 'there'.

Watch Hamilton next time you are at a game - just him. Not the ball or the play. I have, and its revealing. You'll see that what you have posted isn't remotely true - he makes numerous runs and no one passes him the ball. He must be incredibly frustrated

[Ultra & Proud]

Watch Hamilton next time you are at a game - just him. Not the ball or the play. I have, and its revealing. You'll see that what you have posted isn't remotely true - he makes numerous runs and no one passes him the ball. He must be incredibly frustrated
I watched him all this and last year. I stick to what I said. His runs are half hearted and are just jogging. When he gets the ball he can't dribble at all and if he is forced to then it's a disaster like the scuff last night. He is a periphery player that allows himself to be pushed to the periphery. All he has is a decent shot (at times) and decent instincts to get into a poachers spot a few times a match but often his poor finishing ruins those chances. He will never be a good MLS forward here or anywhere else. What you see with him now is all he will ever be and that's not good enough.

I understand he gets favor because he is Canadian but he is not even good MLS depth. Not anymore anyway.

Also on my watching closely at matches list is Delgado and he isn't fairing much better. Last year I studied the work of Zavaleta and there's no need to continue that this season as he is what he is.

[jazzy]

Game live very different from what people not there saying.
35 shots. Lots of quick ball movement

respectfully you are sounding like Vanneys post speak , for me and my local , it was possibly the most frustrating game since the Seattle loss , which btw , Vanney has stubbornly learned nothing , we’re back . The teams first touch consistently is horrendous . The give always in the mid were abysmal . I hate predicting the style and opposition tactics but it was very easy , as usual for a coach to tie or win vs us . Vanney is either ready to go, mad , stubborn or not good enough . This is the same team for the last year resurfacing bad habits the were covered up by Vasquez , Seba and very seldom when he plays Altidore . Newer league teams are more consistent and structured . Worst of all mgmt ? Coach , Fans refuse to see the impotency . I have to think there is coach who lightens the technical obligations on team not equipped to perform to that standard and gets fairer results . It’s not Vanney . Give him a team with the talent , and maybe , but we don’t hand won’t have it this year . Altidore , big mistake , Bradley , too many give always and not always looking for , Poz, always to far back for DP$ , Many others for god sake has anyone heard of first touches and quick shots . All are aiming (easily read) shots . I don’t even think a few upgrades will help . As a fan base we’ve gone from a respectful high ( Lewicke to the low of mediocre money mgrs ) . Our team will hurt and the true fans are being simply disrespected with the downgraded live experience we have now . Again respectfully . 🤐

[jazzy]

Just watched the highlights. Had to be 5-6 decent chances from edge of the box or just outside that TFC missed. Actually not just missed, but not even taken properly.

We can’t score from any kind of distance, so teams are packing the box and taking their chances.

and that’s the season live or not . Till something major happens . Till next years price increase .

[OgtheDim]

respectfully you are sounding like Vanneys post speak , 蘿

When I posted that, I was on the streetcar heading to Union within 15 minutes of the game end. I think we had just turned south on that little bit of Bathurst. Raptors were missing shots...streetcar was getting less noisy as we went along.

So...respectfully....no I was giving my own opinion about the game I saw from the stands. People disagree, fine with that. Just found it interesting in that very moment how negative the people watching were compared to the feeling I got from the crowd.

[Ultra & Proud]

So...respectfully....no I was giving my own opinion about the game I saw from the stands. People disagree, fine with that. Just found it interesting in that very moment how negative the people watching were compared to the feeling I got from the crowd.

That's because with that level of final third possession and chances it seemed unfathomable that the goal wouldn't come........but here we are.

Judging by live action in the crowd in a game like that isn't a fair judgment. Something like this needed to be thought about afterwards and I bet more people are disappointed than pleased.

[OgtheDim]

I'm sorry but if people suggest you see better off a TSN feed then from live, that I will NEVER agree with. I stand but what I say - the tendency on this forum & in others I have seen is for people who see a game live to have a way more negative vibe then those who were there live. It was particularly striking on Wednesday night.

A reminder

The fans around the stadium spontaneously CHEERED the dominance in the first half.

Yes, I'd like them to have scored. But the passing was WAY better then we have seen before and the speed was noticeable.

[Derko]

Dear MLSE

please let me know a few days before the game if Jozy is playing. If hes not playing fine just let me know beforehand please. do the decent and honorable thing.
If he is not playing I will sell my seats on stubhub.
Its been 3 games in a row at home where he hasn't played.
If he is not playing I know exactly how the game will play out.
the opponent will park the bus, play for the tie or transition goal to win the game

not worth watching and definitely not worth paying for
let someone else pay for that shitshow
Excellent supporter you are, as the song goes, Through the thick and through the thin we support the Legend TFC.

[Blizzard]

Morrow on was good. But Deleon should have stayed on the pitch regardless. He was clearly motivated to perform.

He's a right-sided player who was being played out of position. His struggles in the first half were not his fault in that respect. Obviously Vanney thinks enough of him that he want to keep him in the 11 but Auro on the right is a no-brainer if he is available.

[Blizzard]

I'm sorry but if people suggest you see better off a TSN feed then from live, that I will NEVER agree with. I stand but what I say - the tendency on this forum & in others I have seen is for people who see a game live to have a way more negative vibe then those who were there live. It was particularly striking on Wednesday night.

A reminder

The fans around the stadium spontaneously CHEERED the dominance in the first half.

Yes, I'd like them to have scored. But the passing was WAY better then we have seen before and the speed was noticeable.

Ya, the crowd did that after a very attractive spell of play. That reaction surprised me to be honest.

[MightyDM]

I watched him all this and last year. I stick to what I said. His runs are half hearted and are just jogging. When he gets the ball he can't dribble at all and if he is forced to then it's a disaster like the scuff last night. He is a periphery player that allows himself to be pushed to the periphery. All he has is a decent shot (at times) and decent instincts to get into a poachers spot a few times a match but often his poor finishing ruins those chances. He will never be a good MLS forward here or anywhere else. What you see with him now is all he will ever be and that's not good enough.

I understand he gets favor because he is Canadian but he is not even good MLS depth. Not anymore anyway.

Also on my watching closely at matches list is Delgado and he isn't fairing much better. Last year I studied the work of Zavaleta and there's no need to continue that this season as he is what he is.

“Is all he will ever be?” He’s 23. Everyone on these boards has been complaining about how slow and deliberate the buildup play has been - that is really challenging for a striker, who can not anticipate runs or really make them. Playing that way and having him play in a “1” means he has virtually no chance of success. Move the ball, provide service, and create space with another striker and you will be giving him a chance to succeed. And when he does get his chances, he scores. I call that finishing; you poaching. But either way he scores.

[ag futbol]

I think people, including me, forget that up until 4 months ago, this team



thought it had 2 DP strikers
thought it had a TAM long ball passing AM
played 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 exclusively


Given what they are trying to do without a full off season & pre season, I'll take where they are right now offensive wise, especially the last couple of games where they actually tried to penetrate quickly as against the swing the ball around the back approach.
One, some of this isn’t even true. We were already experimenting with 4-3-3 variations last year at certain points *and* it was getting clearer all the time we needed help out wide.

Two, if a professional manager did not see any of that coming, they should be out of a job. These were not all seemingly random events that dropped out of the sky. Even some people on this board had the foresight to see that having high profile players play out the last year of their contract had significant risks.

[Hamilton_Red]

im not going to piss on jhams.he is who he is.a 70 k 3rd string striker that took a pay cut to stay with the team.i blame management for this.they know that jozy will miss 10 to 15 games a year and yet they go cheap on his back up year after year.

Wow - didn’t know this. If I were him I’d be livid to take a paycut that was partially spent on Boyd. He would be better off in the CPL. I am really worried that TFC has become a US team in Canada. It could really stunt the development of the game here going forward.

[Ultra & Proud]

“Is all he will ever be?” He’s 23. Everyone on these boards has been complaining about how slow and deliberate the buildup play has been - that is really challenging for a striker, who can not anticipate runs or really make them. Playing that way and having him play in a “1” means he has virtually no chance of success. Move the ball, provide service, and create space with another striker and you will be giving him a chance to succeed. And when he does get his chances, he scores. I call that finishing; you poaching. But either way he scores.

It's not like this is his first season. He had chances. You watch him with TFC2? He didn't tear it up there either. Same story; every now and then he pops up and gets a great chance at goal.

[paul-collins]

I'm sorry but if people suggest you see better off a TSN feed then from live, that I will NEVER agree with. I stand but what I say - the tendency on this forum & in others I have seen is for people who see a game live to have a way more negative vibe then those who were there live. It was particularly striking on Wednesday night.
HARD agree on this one. The possession and interplay and off-ball movement were cheer-worthy. And, yeah, you can't see that on TV.

Frustrating that we can't get on aerial balls. That was the difference the last time we had to face a bunker.

[Auzzy]

Guyz guyz guyz,

We're # 1 at something!!!
"Toronto FC break MLS record for most shots without a goal in draw with D.C. United"
https://www.wakingthered.com/2019/5/15/18627198/recap-toronto-fc-break-mls-record-for-most-shots-without-a-goal-in-draw-with-dc-united-highlights

You could say, we already won the first part of the Treble for this year!

Or maybe the first part was "we're signing somebody in 1-2 weeks," and the DC game was the second part of the Futility Treble.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm sorry but if people suggest you see better off a TSN feed then from live, that I will NEVER agree with. I stand but what I say - the tendency on this forum & in others I have seen is for people who see a game live to have a way more negative vibe then those who were there live. It was particularly striking on Wednesday night..

I was there too and being there in person makes it worse than TV (for me anyways). On TV you miss a lot of off the ball stuff which could work either way but in our case lately, it allows me to freak out and throw my hands in the air at how many of our players do no runs and just stand there static when we have possession until the ball has to go back to Bradley then Zavaleta then to Westburg to Mavinga and back to Bradley to repeat the whole useless cycle again. The excitement like I said earlier was because everyone felt a goal had to happen. With that dominance it was expected and it never happened thus disappointment but the moans and groans were going good for the last 15 minutes or so.

You are 100% right about the passing being better. It was abysmal at Atlanta and here against Philly. Also we did at least try to move the ball faster. It did get up to the final third much faster than it has all season but it stalled there.

[stegosaurus]

I was there too and being there in person makes it worse than TV (for me anyways). On TV you miss a lot of off the ball stuff which could work either way but in our case lately, it allows me to freak out and throw my hands in the air at how many of our players do no runs and just stand there static when we have possession until the ball has to go back to Bradley then Zavaleta then to Westburg to Mavinga and back to Bradley to repeat the whole useless cycle again. The excitement like I said earlier was because everyone felt a goal had to happen. With that dominance it was expected and it never happened thus disappointment but the moans and groans were going good for the last 15 minutes or so.

You are 100% right about the passing being better. It was abysmal at Atlanta and here against Philly. Also we did at least try to move the ball faster. It did get up to the final third much faster than it has all season but it stalled there.

Agreed. You get caught up in the atmosphere, have a singular viewpoint, and you don’t get the emotional detachment necessary to evaluate what’s going on.

I watch a lot of football here and overseas and go to as many games live as I can worldwide, but watching it is a different experience that allows you to see things more objectively.

Love crowd energy, love seeing it live, but watching on TV provides you a more objective viewpoint unless you’re entirely detached and wandering the stadium or focusing on a certain player’s performance.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Guyz guyz guyz,

We're # 1 at something!!!
"Toronto FC break MLS record for most shots without a goal in draw with D.C. United"
https://www.wakingthered.com/2019/5/15/18627198/recap-toronto-fc-break-mls-record-for-most-shots-without-a-goal-in-draw-with-dc-united-highlights

You could say, we already won the first part of the Treble for this year!

Or maybe the first part was "we're signing somebody in 1-2 weeks," and the DC game was the second part of the Futility Treble.

I thought that stat would be in their favour but I guess we can flip anything.

Don't let me interrupt the pile-on day before match day...

Not saying it's not frustrating. Not saying more can't be done but it ain't shots.

[stegosaurus]

I thought that stat would be in their favour but I guess we can flip anything.

Don't let me interrupt the pile-on day before match day...

Not saying it's not frustrating. Not saying more can't be done but it ain't shots.

I mean, DC just let us take the shots and didn’t seem to care. Didn’t seem like they cared if we had 70 or 90% possession.

That said, it’s not a good stat when it comes to our finishing and precision which were “we don’t get many shots but we score most” comments from earlier this season.