Match Day 10 - Philly @ TFC Saturday May 11 3pm - I gotta find another way

[OgtheDim]

Am I just living in the space between
The beauty and the pain?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvmEYgFsgyg


********

Have at It People

[Grandia]

close game but i can see Philly to win sadly

[Mark TFC]

I think we can pull a rabbit out of the hat; 2-1 TFC.

[JT Red127]

When you play the lineup we did last night it really makes this home match a must win if you want to stay near the top of the table. Especially with games in hand, can't lose those. Add in not doing anything at the deadline and it'll look pretty bad if you drop the first two games after.

[CBTFC]

When you play the lineup we did last night it really makes this home match a must win if you want to stay near the top of the table. Especially with games in hand, can't lose those. Add in not doing anything at the deadline and it'll look pretty bad if you drop the first two games after.

Yeah...I would expect to see nothing short of our full possible starting 11 for both this Saturday vs Philly, and next Wednesday vs DCU.

[notthesun]

Important game given where Philly sits on the table and that we rested our starters for it. Wonder if Altidore can play a part at all.

[Ultra & Proud]

Important game given where Philly sits on the table and that we rested our starters for it. Wonder if Altidore can play a part at all.
I bet he comes in for 25-30 minutes.

[Jack]

I want to see our first eleven for this one, minus Jozy. Keep Jozy for the final 30, I guess. Hamilton to start over Akinola. I think this should be a good one.

[notthesun]

I should mention Drew Moor as well, though I don't really know what's going on with him now. A Moor-Mavinga pairing would be nice to see.

[Oldtimer]

Westberg not Bono please.

[jloome]

When you play the lineup we did last night it really makes this home match a must win if you want to stay near the top of the table. Especially with games in hand, can't lose those. Add in not doing anything at the deadline and it'll look pretty bad if you drop the first two games after.

I've been thinking about that decision, which I initially thought was sort of a bold gamble, and what might logically have happened.

I think maybe Vanney doesn't have faith in our bench players. So he only plays them in bunches together, rather than platooning or rotating them properly, and in damn near hopeless situations.

I think maybe he's making a serious mistake with how he handles our depth.

Ashtone Morgan is not a shit fullback, and he is not old. He just never plays.

At one point, when he was younger, he might've had a shot at being starting quality. Now, he has no delivery any more and is not fast enough to beat guys offensively... and we play with wingbacks more than half the time.

I don't think Boyd or Hamilton are complete shit, either. Boyd was a competitive player until he was bumped to the Bundesliga and it was out of his depth. He was a U.S. national team player. Even if someone loses some speed to age and injuries, their technique and intelligence doesn't disintegrate completely.

But they never play.

Chapman has real potential to be a starter in MLS. But the tiny amount of activity he's seeing relative to what's required to break through means that it won't happen here.

I watch how top managers handle a roster, and there are simply a lot more individual subs based on performance in a match, and not on long-term planning or projection -- or worse, a lack of faith in certain players.

I don't think a team can win this league anymore without faith in at least most of its roster.

We had four wins coming into this game and yet every time we're ahead, he leaves it until the post 70th minute to make a change. And he never spot starts someone just to give one player a rest or another a reward for good training. It's just "did the guy ahead of you screw up last game?"

It all seems maybe too simplistic, like we are limiting what our squad can be. Certainly, in retrospect, I don't see the point in that many changes without even resting our two top healthy players. It made a tough game harder and it made players who rarely play look bad, and less confident.

Perhaps he has a core mentality issue, where if a player isn't behaviourally the way he likes, he just won't let them play. Again, I'm not sure MLS is the kind of league where a manager inflexible to personality differences will keep winning.

I look at the other guys who at this level produce over and over as coaches -- Tata Martinez, Bradley, Berhalter -- and they all handle different personalities exceptionally well, and they all give younger players more time to show what they have and adapt.

[OgtheDim]

Just for reference on this discussion: back in 2016, both Osorio & Delgado were not starting.

[Ultra & Proud]

Perhaps he has a core mentality issue, where if a player isn't behaviourally the way he likes, he just won't let them play. Again, I'm not sure MLS is the kind of league where a manager inflexible to personality differences will keep winning.
I don't think this is the case because VDW started all last year and the guy is, was, and always will be a supreme loafer with a shit attitude.

For sure Vanney is too late on subs and doesn't cycle in much of the bench as a rule but I think it has to be based on him over-intellectualizing his tactics and trying to get advantages with his selection choices. Either that or the non-Dutch/TAM training loafers get excluded.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The rotation match against Atlanta away means pressure to show for the home fans this time. Will the first team be fresh and gelling and lucky? That's what we need to see.

I would've rather had the 3 points already.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure about the betting markets, but I would call us a slight favourite - only because its at our place.

Their defence is not great either & their midfield can be had.

But if we do the ponderous across the midfield stuff & people refuse to feed Poz & refuse to try to get the ball into the forward attackers & Bradley gets stuck way at the back again, they will find a way to score on us.

Time to put up a good performance.

[Auzzy]

I really don't think a single striker works consistently with the personnel we have at the moment. And single forward, with only one forward on the bench, is even more dangerous. Why can't Vanney see that? All of Hamilton, Akinola and Boyd would do better with one of the other as a strike partner. With one of these guys as a single striker, sometimes you see Pozuelo drift into a real forward position as a result, where he's up against some 6 ft + MLS brute defender. And if he then tries to dribble past a couple of those guys because there's just not enough of a dangerous target to pass to, it's really sad. Also during buildup, often Pozuelo ends up too far away from the play to really influence it as a result.

Even Jozy isn't an ideal single striker, but can do it OK depending on the opponent. Drop the stupid idea at least until Jozy is 100% fit; better wait until we finally get that magical winger.

[MightyDM]

I really don't think a single striker works consistently with the personnel we have at the moment. And single forward, with only one forward on the bench, is even more dangerous. Why can't Vanney see that? All of Hamilton, Akinola and Boyd would do better with one of the other as a strike partner. With one of these guys as a single striker, sometimes you see Pozuelo drift into a real forward position as a result, where he's up against some 6 ft + MLS brute defender. And if he then tries to dribble past a couple of those guys because there's just not enough of a dangerous target to pass to, it's really sad. And during buildup, oten Pozuelo ends up too far away from the play to really influence it as a result.

Even Jozy isn't an ideal single striker, but can do it OK depending on the opponent. Drop the stupid idea at least until Jozy is 100% fit; better wait until we finally get that magical winger.

Auro and Hamilton had success the game that they played with each other. I would have liked to see them starting against Atlanta with Chapman or Oso behind them and Poz rested.

[Richard]

I want to see Akiniloa and Hamilton full time starting now to prove they have what it takes, none of this Boyd(American reclamation project) nonsense.

[Hamilton_Red]

We have to win this game to save any shred of credibility and/or dignity that the ...let’s throw the Atlanta game so we can win the next game....crowd has.

Just for the record...you play your best players in the toughest games. You play the ones that you are developing and nurturing in the easier home games or bring them on when you are a few goals ahead. You never throw a league game.

[Ultra & Proud]

We have to win this game to save any shred of credibility and/or dignity that the ...let’s throw the Atlanta game so we can win the next game....crowd has.

Just for the record...you play your best players in the toughest games. You play the ones that you are developing and nurturing in the easier home games or bring them on when you are a few goals ahead. You never throw a league game.

Philly is better than Atlanta.

[Mikmacdo]

Jozy should be back right? What about Moor?

If TFC has a full lineup they win 3-1. Without Jozy maybe they win 2-1 or a 1-1 draw.

[Auzzy]

Auro and Hamilton had success the game that they played with each other. I would have liked to see them starting against Atlanta with Chapman or Oso behind them and Poz rested.

I agree, assuming you meant Akinola & Hamilton.

[Hamilton_Red]

Philly is better than Atlanta.

We beat Philly 3-1 away without Poz & Altidore....... we couldn’t score on Atlanta with Poz. We are playing at home with a substantial advantage. Atlanta are the reigning MLS Champions and are showing signs of getting going again. So ...no..Atlanta are still the team to beat.

[Oldtimer]

Just for the record...you play your best players in the toughest games. You play the ones that you are developing and nurturing in the easier home games or bring them on when you are a few goals ahead. You never throw a league game.

I've seen the best managers in the world play a B side if they had a short turnaround to another game. The problem is that our B side is a lot worse than even most MLS B sides, so nicking a tie is less likely.

[jloome]

Just for reference on this discussion: back in 2016, both Osorio & Delgado were not starting.

Just for reference, you might want to check your references.

Osorio has been regularly starting -- if not every week -- since 2013. He made 30 appearances in 2016 and started 26 games.

He made 26 starts in 2015, 24 in 2014, 18 in 2013.

Delgado started 23 in 2016, and started 19 games out of 20 appearances when he joined us in 2015.

So, no, you're not even close.

Plus it's just as likely he was told he had to start Van Der Wiel by the guy who brought him in. Bez isn't going to let his manager make him look like an ass after he lands a former PSG player.

If I'm wrong, can perhaps someone point to anyone Vanney has legitimately brought through? Or even dramatically improved? Chapman I might argue, but it would be more convincing if he played more often.

Or are they just not good enough? Because we don't have a whole lot of history of success before him, either, and it would be nice not to keep losing the Marc Anthony Kayes of the world. But he sure likes his own projects, like Ben Spenser.

[jloome]

I don't think this is the case because VDW started all last year and the guy is, was, and always will be a supreme loafer with a shit attitude.

For sure Vanney is too late on subs and doesn't cycle in much of the bench as a rule but I think it has to be based on him over-intellectualizing his tactics and trying to get advantages with his selection choices. Either that or the non-Dutch/TAM training loafers get excluded.

Vanney didn't bring VdW and I don't think wanted him. He certainly didn't from the comments to each other in pre-season. He was Bez' guy, and when your GM signs a former PSG player, you don't sit him.

[OgtheDim]

Hmmm......my IRC was not RC. Point taken jloome.

Osorio was 18 sub appearances in 2017 but forced his way back onto the team later in the year. That was about it for his non involvement. Delgado has been 20 or so appearances most seasons (so not always a starter but as often as not)

I stand corrected.

The only young players who have seemingly come along & gained minutes are Akinola & Bono & Chapman & now Fraser. Speaks to both an inability to bring along but also not very good at finding youth either. They are putting a lot of emphasis on the U14 and lower academy - this group started when Vanney was hired.

I'm not sure the phrasing is "playing his favourites" as much as preferring to work with an 18.

I would say that Boyd isn't currently the first choice off the bench so at least there is some hierarchy based on merit.

[ensco]

Philly is better than Atlanta.

Philly has thumped Cincinnati two times in last three weeks, if it's their form that has impressed you.

Would you care to wager something on this interesting proposition of yours?

[ensco]

I've been thinking about that decision, which I initially thought was sort of a bold gamble, and what might logically have happened.

I think maybe Vanney doesn't have faith in our bench players. So he only plays them in bunches together, rather than platooning or rotating them properly, and in damn near hopeless situations.

I think maybe he's making a serious mistake with how he handles our depth.

Ashtone Morgan is not a shit fullback, and he is not old. He just never plays.

At one point, when he was younger, he might've had a shot at being starting quality. Now, he has no delivery any more and is not fast enough to beat guys offensively... and we play with wingbacks more than half the time.

I don't think Boyd or Hamilton are complete shit, either. Boyd was a competitive player until he was bumped to the Bundesliga and it was out of his depth. He was a U.S. national team player. Even if someone loses some speed to age and injuries, their technique and intelligence doesn't disintegrate completely.

But they never play.

Chapman has real potential to be a starter in MLS. But the tiny amount of activity he's seeing relative to what's required to break through means that it won't happen here.

I watch how top managers handle a roster, and there are simply a lot more individual subs based on performance in a match, and not on long-term planning or projection -- or worse, a lack of faith in certain players.

I don't think a team can win this league anymore without faith in at least most of its roster.

We had four wins coming into this game and yet every time we're ahead, he leaves it until the post 70th minute to make a change. And he never spot starts someone just to give one player a rest or another a reward for good training. It's just "did the guy ahead of you screw up last game?"

It all seems maybe too simplistic, like we are limiting what our squad can be. Certainly, in retrospect, I don't see the point in that many changes without even resting our two top healthy players. It made a tough game harder and it made players who rarely play look bad, and less confident.

Perhaps he has a core mentality issue, where if a player isn't behaviourally the way he likes, he just won't let them play. Again, I'm not sure MLS is the kind of league where a manager inflexible to personality differences will keep winning.

I look at the other guys who at this level produce over and over as coaches -- Tata Martinez, Bradley, Berhalter -- and they all handle different personalities exceptionally well, and they all give younger players more time to show what they have and adapt.

I hadn’t quite realized this until you laid it out this way. Great post.

Going to add to this in the Vanney Evaluation thread....

[ag futbol]

I watch how top managers handle a roster, and there are simply a lot more individual subs based on performance in a match, and not on long-term planning or projection -- or worse, a lack of faith in certain players.

I don't think a team can win this league anymore without faith in at least most of its roster.

We had four wins coming into this game and yet every time we're ahead, he leaves it until the post 70th minute to make a change. And he never spot starts someone just to give one player a rest or another a reward for good training. It's just "did the guy ahead of you screw up last game?"

It all seems maybe too simplistic, like we are limiting what our squad can be. Certainly, in retrospect, I don't see the point in that many changes without even resting our two top healthy players. It made a tough game harder and it made players who rarely play look bad, and less confident.

Perhaps he has a core mentality issue, where if a player isn't behaviourally the way he likes, he just won't let them play. Again, I'm not sure MLS is the kind of league where a manager inflexible to personality differences will keep winning.

I look at the other guys who at this level produce over and over as coaches -- Tata Martinez, Bradley, Berhalter -- and they all handle different personalities exceptionally well, and they all give younger players more time to show what they have and adapt.
I think you’ve hit on a number of good points here and an interesting topic overall.

Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

We play a certain system during a game. Player A subs out, player B goes in. When player B is less established, the change is almost always plug-and-play, with no change in formation on account of their attributes. Everyone less established is thought of as needing to fit a system as opposed to the system fitting (or even slightly adjusting) for the player. It’s tough to succeed under those circumstances and it also explains some of up-and-down performances of our substitutes. Sometimes Chapman will get a role he’s suited for and look fantastic. Sometimes he gets a dog-shit assignment and everyone groans he can’t do the job.

There needs to be more consideration of the tools we have at our disposal and getting the potential out of certain guys and less formational rigidity. We re-jig our entire lineup so Zavs can come on as a CB in a back three FFS. But can we not play Hamilton with a second striker? Find ways where Osorio and Chapman don’t have to play as wingers? These things help the team and the players.

[Initial B]

You know, I would be okay with losing to Philly on Saturday if it means we beat them on Sunday. Having severe 2001 flashbacks here...

[Luanda]

Westberg not Bono please.

YES...Been focusing on Bono's distribution. It is almost as if the guy is posing for Vogue with each quick. No wonder they go astray!

[stegosaurus]

Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

I think development at TFC is problematic as well. They recognized the issue of trying to play younger kids against second div lifers and MLS players needing minutes by autorelegating the squad, but now we don’t have anyone to bridge that gap except what, loans to CPL and second division teams?

Plus it removes the ability to send someone like Hamilton or whoever down just to get minutes, because even someone like Hamilton was excelling at that level but couldn’t put it together against better opposition.

Losing players like Kaye who turn out well is also an issue, but I remember Lovitz being absolutely awful here and now he’s okay at MTL and was even getting USMNT call ups.

We also lost a lot of strong depth players. Someone like Cheyrou could change the tempo of the game. Our off the bench option is now Fraser who I don’t see being able to do that. There was also some variety in having a guy like Hagglund who is good in the air and on set pieces, or even players like Cooper.

Vanney did adapt tactics in the past because he had the ability to at least choose between two formations... now we seem stuck with one that we don’t even have the players for.

Part of the issue is really a lack of Vazquez, who was basically a 4th DP. The FO lucked out. Sure, we can stick Pozo in now, but that leaves us down a DP-calibre attacking player even when Jozy is fit.

Think about it... Vazquez didn’t need to track back to our box to retrieve balls, Jozy was tracking back a lot, Seba stayed up top, and Bradley didn’t need to run everywhere like a madman. This also left our defense less pressured, Morrow was spectacular and Beita played well too.

We had four people who were dangerous up front (Seba, Jozy, Vazquez, and Morrow), and you couldn’t just foul to stop us because that was almost always a goal. Now teams foul us heavily going forward and we lose a lot of momentum that way.

[Canary10]

Great post up there Jloome. Lots of good points.

[A Stick]

Great post up there Jloome. Lots of good points.

I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.

[notthesun]

Some good news:

https://twitter.com/GarethWheeler/status/1126880377853947904

[Oldtimer]

I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.

I've coached youth. Most kids coaches prefer fast players as it's easy to win at that level with speed. When these kids get older their coaches have a real challenge retraining them to be more technical. I know, I tried to teach positioning and they were like "let's just boot it down the field and our fast player will get it." It took a lot of patience to teach something different.

TFC Academy and TFC2 are trying to teach their kids the same type of technical skills that they expect of the first team but I'm sure it's an incredible challenge. Some players will never be able to relearn. It's all part of why our CMNT is underperforming.

[ag futbol]

I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.
Interesting, I would have almost said the opposite. Certainly speed is not big on their checklist. Our midfield is painfully slow.

[OgtheDim]

I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.

Spencer was an athlete?!?!?!


Some of our CB defender draft picks were excellent athletes who couldn't play the position technically. There was a thinly veiled Vanny interview where he basically said most North American CB's out of college are not taught how to deal with more then 1 person coming at a them - i.e. how do you deal with a 2 defenders vs. 2 attackers situation.

[stegosaurus]

Spencer was an athlete?!?!?!


Some of our CB defender draft picks were excellent athletes who couldn't play the position technically. There was a thinly veiled Vanny interview where he basically said most North American CB's out of college are not taught how to deal with more then 1 person coming at a them - i.e. how do you deal with a 2 defenders vs. 2 attackers situation.

The college route is another thing entirely that has also led to poor development both for clubs and national teams, along with pay2play (which exists at the college level too).

[OgtheDim]

GAME DAY :scarf::drum::drinking:


**************

So the weekly Pravda (we listen so you don't have to) indicated that Moor & Jozy spent all week training with TFCII.

&


Moor says he is 100%. "Calves are something I have to take care of". I think he starts which is huge. He breaks down Philly well - worth a listen to his interview with journos to understand his mind.

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2019/05/10/training-sound-drew-moor-may-10-2019?autoplay=true

[TFC John]

In 2017 (our year) all the commentators kept saying how we had the deepest bench in the league. Injuries did not stop us because there was always a good player available. Two years later we are complaining that we have no depth or that the depth we do have isn’t used properly or doesn’t get a chance to develop.

I watched the second half of the Vancouver-Portland game last night and the thing that stood out was neither of those teams wasted time with constant back passes. They got the ball and quickly moved it up the field. Not recklessly. Just quickly. It was exciting attacking football without either team being able to finish. That, at least, is more interesting than our methodical slow build up without a finish. It’s like Vanney has told our players they must wait for the opposing team to set up their defense before we can go forward.

While you watch today’s game, say out loud “back pass” and “forward pass” as the play develops. You’ll soon see that most of what our team does is start in a good position and slowly retreat into our own half. Then they try to move it forward and lose the ball to a well established defense.

We need better tactics and better squad rotation and development. Both of those responsibilities fall on the manager.

[Ultra & Proud]

In 2017 (our year) all the commentators kept saying how we had the deepest bench in the league. Injuries did not stop us because there was always a good player available. Two years later we are complaining that we have no depth or that the depth we do have isn’t used properly or doesn’t get a chance to develop.

I watched the second half of the Vancouver-Portland game last night and the thing that stood out was neither of those teams wasted time with constant back passes. They got the ball and quickly moved it up the field. Not recklessly. Just quickly. It was exciting attacking football without either team being able to finish. That, at least, is more interesting than our methodical slow build up without a finish. It’s like Vanney has told our players they must wait for the opposing team to set up their defense before we can go forward.

While you watch today’s game, say out loud “back pass” and “forward pass” as the play develops. You’ll soon see that most of what our team does is start in a good position and slowly retreat into our own half. Then they try to move it forward and lose the ball to a well established defense.

We need better tactics and better squad rotation and development. Both of those responsibilities fall on the manager.

Like I said before, I think Vanney is trying to get them to move it faster. He mentions it often in his pressers and interviews. I just think that methodical approach is ingrained in the team and especially in Bradley. I think the only way to fix it is to have some different players in there. Players with decent pace. Hopefully a winger (or two) can help but I think we need a new mid at the base of the midfield to facilitate quicker play unless adding a winger and pushing Osorio into Delgado's spot fixes it.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I will be very pissed on Vanney if we start this match again with just a single striker.
And the two up-front guys can be of course just Hamilton and Akinola.

It has been demonstrated too many times this season that if we're playing with a lone starter forward other than Josy, that won't cut it...

[jloome]

Thank you. I wonder how hands on Curtis will be. Jesse Marsch was at odds with him over interference in NY so I can’t imagine he’ll just ignore the problem in favour of always spending more.

[jloome]

I think you’ve hit on a number of good points here and an interesting topic overall.

Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

We play a certain system during a game. Player A subs out, player B goes in. When player B is less established, the change is almost always plug-and-play, with no change in formation on account of their attributes. Everyone less established is thought of as needing to fit a system as opposed to the system fitting (or even slightly adjusting) for the player. It’s tough to succeed under those circumstances and it also explains some of up-and-down performances of our substitutes. Sometimes Chapman will get a role he’s suited for and look fantastic. Sometimes he gets a dog-shit assignment and everyone groans he can’t do the job.

There needs to be more consideration of the tools we have at our disposal and getting the potential out of certain guys and less formational rigidity. We re-jig our entire lineup so Zavs can come on as a CB in a back three FFS. But can we not play Hamilton with a second striker? Find ways where Osorio and Chapman don’t have to play as wingers? These things help the team and the players.

THis is a really good point. Tactically we’re built like a premiership squad with strength through 23 players, but what mls team can put that out there? Remember how long it took him to acknowledge we needed more than one tactical set? We played 532 exclusively for awfully long time before other teams figured it out. So yeah, he
Might just be putting them in positions. Where they can t succeed.

And I actually liked Lovitz. He did okay in limited time.

[Richard]

I will be very pissed on Vanney if we start this match again with just a single striker.
And the two up-front guys can be of course just Hamilton and Akinola.

It has been demonstrated too many times this season that if we're playing with a lone starter forward other than Josy, that won't cut it...

If it's Boyd up top I will flip out lol.

[MightyDM]

I think you’ve hit on a number of good points here and an interesting topic overall.

Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

We play a certain system during a game. Player A subs out, player B goes in. When player B is less established, the change is almost always plug-and-play, with no change in formation on account of their attributes. Everyone less established is thought of as needing to fit a system as opposed to the system fitting (or even slightly adjusting) for the player. It’s tough to succeed under those circumstances and it also explains some of up-and-down performances of our substitutes. Sometimes Chapman will get a role he’s suited for and look fantastic. Sometimes he gets a dog-shit assignment and everyone groans he can’t do the job.

There needs to be more consideration of the tools we have at our disposal and getting the potential out of certain guys and less formational rigidity. We re-jig our entire lineup so Zavs can come on as a CB in a back three FFS. But can we not play Hamilton with a second striker? Find ways where Osorio and Chapman don’t have to play as wingers? These things help the team and the players.

Great post. Spot on.

[Auzzy]

Single striker again, Hamilton.

Jozy only striker option on the bench.

Oh well, we'll see.

[OgtheDim]

The new blond guy looks promising..

[MightyDM]

The new blond guy looks promising..

Not there yet. Who has the new ‘do?

[stegosaurus]

Not there yet. Who has the new ‘do?

Alexander Pottswell. He’s a new TAM winger from England.

[MightyDM]

‘Bout time they brought a winger in...

[portu]

I don't what's up today but we're 3 minutes in and they seem way more up for this then almost any match I've seen this season

[ag futbol]

Sure sign this makes me old but i’m Not sure I can tolerate looking at Auro and Mavinga with those haircuts.

The smell of bleach is coming out of my TV

Edit: oh no, they got Pozuelo too

[ag futbol]

There needs to be more gutsy fullback play here if we are going to break through. Everyone is waiting for somebody else to make runs and again Hamilton is on an island by himself. Pozuelo is not a 2nd forward by any stretch of the imagination

[portu]

There needs to be more gutsy fullback play here if we are going to break through. Everyone is waiting for somebody else to make runs and again Hamilton is on an island by himself. Pozuelo is not a 2nd forward by any stretch of the imagination
I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all. Guys seem fluid today, we just haven't had the ball enough. When we do it looks positive.

[Richard]

Bradley ripping into Zavelata.

[James17930]

Geez, stadium is half empty. What's going on?

[stegosaurus]

Nice play there b/w Pozo and Marky.

[portu]

We've picked up the pace. Playing riskier passes today, expending more energy to make runs and create space. Love it.

[ag futbol]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all. Guys seem fluid today, we just haven't had the ball enough. When we do it looks positive.
We rarely broke the final third until the last minute or two.

[stegosaurus]

We look dangerous today.

[ag futbol]

We look dangerous today.
Agreed, i’ll Go back on my earlier statement. Better now.

Hamilton’s ability to make those runs and hold up the ball is a big difference

[ag futbol]

What on earth was Ciman doing there passing that guy off?!?

[portu]

PAY ATTENTION

Jesus Christ

[stegosaurus]

They’re countering against our weak side...

[James17930]

Again we're being too slow getting our attack going - too predictable where the pass is going to go and they can just pick it off.

[jloome]

Westberg is why it’s not two or three

We’re just too wide open

Can’t play like this every week

[portu]

This is tactically really ambitious from Vanney. Switching, fluid runs, selective pressing. Guys have bumped into each other 4 times now I think because they're not sure who should press. Starting to see some guys have their speed of thought challenged and get exposed a little. But I'd rather watch this than the usual stuff.

[General Woolfe]

Once again we lose a goal from the left. What are Auro and Zavaleta doing? Doesn’t Auro realize part of a wing backs job is to defend as well as get forward.

They just announced on TSN Curtis will be in the studio at half time. Hopefully he is going to announce his resignation after his utter failure to address our problems in the transfer window. I wonder how he’s going to spin a mid table finish this season?

[Inklink]

Not having to listen to Caldwell drone on is such a fricken delight. So sick of his shtick of every foul call and yellow being soft, and just repeating everything "lyuke" says and adding "magnificent" to it.

/rant

[ag futbol]

Once again we lose a goal from the left. What are Auro and Zavaleta doing? Doesn’t Auro realize part of a wing backs job is to defend as well as get forward.

They just announced on TSN Curtis will be in the studio at half time. Hopefully he is going to announce his resignation after his utter failure to address our problems in the transfer window. I wonder how he’s going to spin a mid table finish this season?

Disagree on Auro. You have to push your fullbacks in today’s game and he’s obviously going to be cut out when Delgado bulges the pass in midfield.

Once the next phase of the play starts its 2v2 and whoever was on the right side didn’t close with enough speed and Mavinga lost his battle.

[Inklink]

So many giveaways Bradley

[stegosaurus]

Pozo is getting hacked.

[portu]

So many giveaways Bradley
He struggling to keep up with the pace we're playing at.

[James17930]

He struggling to keep up with the pace we're playing at.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. He looks tired.

[stevep]

Boring

[Ultra & Proud]

Nobody running, useless possession again, snails pacing, and Hamilton as a lone striker is pointless.

[ag futbol]

Pozo is getting hacked.
This game continues to follow the same paterns of those in the past. We watch our best player get hacked down to the ground repeatedly and do nothing. This is easy: if the refs aren't going to control the game we hack down their best player too. Instead we meekly accept the state of the game and it hurts our effectiveness.

Outside of that the lack of a wide threat and speed continue to hurt us. Justin Morrow might as well not go over the half line, he is never going to contribute anything in the final third in today's league. Delgado seems to have a unique skill to be behind the play both offensively and defensively, impressive.

[daner90]

Take Marky off at half for Jozy/ayo and let Poz do his magic in the midfield. Its tough for him to have an impact on the game when we cant get the ball at his feet

[portu]

This game continues to follow the same paterns of those in the past. We watch our best player get hacked down to the ground repeatedly and do nothing. This is easy: if the refs aren't going to control the game we hack down their best player too. Instead we meekly accept the state of the game and it hurts our effectiveness.

Outside of that the lack of a wide threat and speed continue to hurt us. Justin Morrow might as well not go over the half line, he is never going to contribute anything in the final third in today's league. Delgado seems to have a unique skill to be behind the play both offensively and defensively, impressive.
Who's going to go out there and hack a guy? Bradley? Our midfield can barely tackle as it is.

[ag futbol]

He struggling to keep up with the pace we're playing at.
Agreed, but to be fair he's also got less time to make decisions than his other counterparts. Teams are happy to give Delgado space because he'll just play a backwards pass once he receives the ball.

[stevep]

Is osorio playing?

[ag futbol]

Who's going to go out there and hack a guy? Bradley? Our midfield can barely tackle as it is.
There has to be some washout, hard-man somewhere who's willing to give a session in the parking lot after the game.

[gracos]

i am sorry but someone said we would do better with our starters, it seems like the team is in a slump, lets hope the club changes something to get out of it or it may a painful few months until the next transfer window

[portu]

There has to be some washout, hard-man somewhere who's willing to give a session in the parking lot after the game.
Just keep a TFC II kid on the bench to break kneecaps at all times. Club can pay the kids fines lol

[gracos]

Ali "Incompetent" Curtis should of stayed off the broadcast, there is no reason he deserves to be in the club, and president just wanted to give his friend a job

[General Woolfe]

I don’t know what’s happened to Delgado, he’s a pale shadow of the player who looked so good in our championship year. Him and Osorio gave us great balance, and although Osorio didn’t start the season well, he has improved in recent weeks. Our final ball is awful. Too many blind passes into the centre rather than hold the ball until a player in the middle makes space for the shot.

I question if we have the players anymore to play 3-5-2 successfully anymore. We might we be better going 4-4-2 with a solid defensive back four who know their task is only to defend. (And hopefully better than we’ve done this season so far) A diamond in midfield with Bradley at the base and Pozuelo at the peak, supporting two strikers, hopefully a fit Jozy and a new addition, but Akinola perhaps the best option at present.

A lot of guff from Curtis. If a club doesn’t want to sella player (presumably González) move on to the next target. It’s clear to a blind man that defence is leaking like a sieve. It’s also worrying he doesn’t seem to see a forward as a priority, because without Altidore we’re toothless.

[jazzy]

I’d like to thank the fans that said it’s smart to not go all out against Atlanta , because in their imagination they think we have a team that win at will . Vanney learned nothing from last year . I’d like to see him one day with the team his concepts can win . It might not be in MLS . This right side is inept Delano is losing us games constantly . Ali Curtis and Manning must be making the Argos a powerhouse. Glad to see some fans not showing up for this . BTW can Morrow ever strike a ball anywhere but at the keeper ? He’s average at best with horrid defending .....Pozuelos a class act never discouraged. What a waste . When I see Bradley the last man to keeper I know we can’t win ......simply need more effort from mgmt to give Vanney some damn help . BS

[Richard]

Mr. Money strikes again.

[Inklink]

POZ!!

[ag futbol]

Very nice. Showing some signs of life here. Guys look frustrated though

[James17930]

Thank Zeus, we needed that.

[James17930]

Okay, Jozy for the winner again.

[stegosaurus]

Pozo is going to be dead halfway through the season...

[Inklink]

Yikes horrendous ball from Oso

[James17930]

We must be one of, if not the, oldest teams in the league, right?

[Inklink]

Pozuelo is going to chip every goal from now on.

[stegosaurus]

Ah the old dribble and pass around the box but never shoot approach.

[Inklink]

Should've kicked it out when Auro was clearly hurt.

lol Ciman and Zavalette

[ag futbol]

I’m sorry but Zavaleta has no business on the field. He couldn’t keep up on that 1-2 pass and the runner started 15 feet behind him

[Richard]

Should've kicked it out when Auro was clearly hurt.

lol Ciman and Zavalette

Dumb & Dumber

[James17930]

FFS.

Auto limping around but doesn't go down, so no one noticed to put it out, then we get exposed a man down in the back.

[Inklink]

With back injuries maybe the guy doesn't want to go through the motion of falling down. You just want to stand still or walk gingerly.

[jazzy]

What defensive tandem Ciman and Zavaleta .....he’s back to turning slowly thinking he’s major league and chasing and then scores ....yup Vanney understands his players strengths alright .....he’s simply not in touch with how weak some of them are . If he is then is this preseason ?

[Fort York Redcoat]

FFS.

Auto limping around but doesn't go down, so no one noticed to put it out, then we get exposed a man down in the back.


With back injuries maybe the guy doesn't want to go through the motion of falling down. You just want to stand still or walk gingerly.

Naw I'm with Taiwan. Sit down and let the whistle blow. That cost us.

[General Woolfe]

When you’re chasing a game why sub a striker for striker. Delgado hasn’t kicked a ball all day, why not sub him for Jozy and go with two attackers?

[portu]

Ciman down. Curtis is sweating.

[Inklink]

Ciman pretending to be hurt so he doesn't have to play with Zavaletta anymore.

[James17930]

Ciman pretending to be hurt so he doesn't have to play with Zavaletta anymore.

This actually looks pretty serious.

[notthesun]

Good thing we didn't bring in another CB during the window!

[ag futbol]

Do it for the gram!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ciman off with injury. Why not sub on the maybe healed Moor?

[SoccMan2]

Ciman pretending to be hurt so he doesn't have to play with Zavaletta anymore.
Really Ciman is a bloody joke waist of space both goals went through his legs and took a useless yellow card should have been taken off earlier.

[Richard]

When you’re chasing a game why sub a striker for striker. Delgado hasn’t kicked a ball all day, why not sub him for Jozy and go with two attackers?

I hope someone in the press asks.

[stegosaurus]

Do it for the gram!

Chapman is poop and only cares about the ‘gram...

... now please score a goal for your boy Bono.

[portu]

Shoot the fucking ball.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Good thing we didn't bring in another CB during the window!

Gonzalez is free at the next window but whatever. It was too late for me after the first match to CAI.

[Mikmacdo]

Wow auro and ciman hurt. Good thing curtis didnt sign anyone! Its going to be a rough couple of months.

[stegosaurus]

That’s actually the second time Chapman has fucked up like that, when Pozo was in position to shoot.

[notthesun]

Chapman you muppet. Pozuelo is running into it, leave it for him FFS

[portu]

Altidore needs to keep his cool lest he prove Manning correct over those child comments

On a more serious note the last time a DP kicked the ball into the crowd out of frustration was a 3 game suspension so watch out for that next week

[RealG-TFC]

Seriously the cockiness to not have signed someone before the window is shocking. I know Curtis has a way about him but this just reeks of hubris.

[James17930]

Altidore needs to keep his cool lest he prove Manning correct over those child comments

On a more serious note the last time a DP kicked the ball into the crowd out of frustration was a 3 game suspension so watch out for that next week

Who?

[portu]

Who?

Kaku

[ag futbol]

Seriously the cockiness to not have signed someone before the window is shocking. I know Curtis has a way about him but this just reeks of hubris.
Hey, we don’t want to rush or anything... it takes at least 3 windows to sign one player

[stegosaurus]

Man... Philly is really dirty.

[James17930]

Kaku

But wasn't he red carded on the play? Or was the 3 games completely supplemental discipline?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Seriously the cockiness to not have signed someone before the window is shocking. I know Curtis has a way about him but this just reeks of hubris.

Cocky? How? He wants Gonzalez and has to wait. I can't say who his winger targets are but if we sign one or two in 2 months that were available now I'll be as pissed as you are.

The only help I see that we could have got would have been Accam.

[portu]

But wasn't he red carded on the play? Or was the 3 games completely supplemental discipline?

Two game supp

[ag futbol]

Dear god, some shit stain 18 yr old gets more calls than our star player.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Altidore needs to keep his cool lest he prove Manning correct over those child comments

On a more serious note the last time a DP kicked the ball into the crowd out of frustration was a 3 game suspension so watch out for that next week

Not the same.

Unless it was point blank at a ball kid.

[portu]

Referee has completely lost the match what a fucking joke

[stegosaurus]

What the hell? 12 men on the pitch, diving like a bunch of idiots and wasting time while hacking Pozo all game.

[ag futbol]

What a joke. They should have red carded him for refusing to leave the field and acting like a dumbass

[Inklink]

Has Morrow made a decent cross this game? This season?

[portu]

This is why I hate Philly

[Fort York Redcoat]

Well here's to KC kicking the crap out of DC tomorrow.

[Richard]

Loosing the plot for Dummies: MLS Referee Edition

[James17930]

This is like watching a game from 2011.

[ag futbol]

Has Morrow made a decent cross this game? This season?
They don’t even bring over the man to cut down the angle. He’d struggle to get the ball around a garden gnome

[portu]

That ref shouldnt have another match for a long long long time

[Richard]

Should we start an Ali Curtis evaluation thread? Perhaps start with the fact we got no CB depth, and maybe that interview at the half.

[Mikmacdo]

Has Morrow made a decent cross this game? This season?
I think he had one nice cross to jozy all season. Pretty awful.

[James17930]

We definitely need some new, younger players and some new ideas. We look old and stale.

[gracos]

The club is continuing on the wrong path, it was fun while the positive results lasted, but as of right now if this doesnt get corrected; we are in for a long season

[ag futbol]

I don't know what to say about this game other than the front office and Vanney have really dropped the ball over the last 8-12 months.

I question whether today's Greg Vanney is the equivalent to the Orlando version of Jason Kreis.

[Areathrasher]

Fuck sake. What a crock of fucking shit that was.

[SoccMan2]

Goodbye good start let the Vanney watch begin, so the Orlando game was given away to key in on this game how did all that work out? Six points given away just like that so much wrong with this team right now .

[stegosaurus]

Game was moronic.

Ref was an idiot. Philly played like a CONCACAF team. Chapman singlehandedly blowing the draw by being in the wrong place yet again. Dribbling around the box without shooting. Two injuries.

Both goals came from exploiting the weakness of pairing up Zavaleta and Ciman on Auro’s side which is basically a free counter goal every time.

Westburg looked good.

[khso11]

Should we start an Ali Curtis evaluation thread? Perhaps start with the fact we got no CB depth, and maybe that interview at the half.

The “2 weeks away” thread

[JavierMartini]

We need wide players and defenders. We haven't come close to replacing what we lost in the off season. Ali curtis is more to blame than vanney.

[gracos]

i know management doesnt have to disclose the information, but who else was approached to be manager of the club

[OgtheDim]

This is tactically really ambitious from Vanney. Switching, fluid runs, selective pressing. Guys have bumped into each other 4 times now I think because they're not sure who should press. Starting to see some guys have their speed of thought challenged and get exposed a little. But I'd rather watch this than the usual stuff.

That was pretty much the story of the game.

[notthesun]

I foresee a lot of sky-is-falling to come out of this one so I'm just going to say I thought we played decently and this was a game on a knife-edge we easily could have won. We had a glut of half-chances not fall our way and seriously, we were all over them in the second half. They scored an OG and a counter attack down the side of our player that was injured on the field.

We had absolutely nothing break our way today. It happens.

The depth of the team and not having any impact subs is more concerning than the result. Our strongest XI can hang with any team in the league except probably LAFC, but as constructed we're 2 injuries away from a crisis.

[General Woolfe]

Like it or not we’re back to pre 2015 level. Utter mediocrity. The only difference is we’re paying three massive salaries to achieve such averageness. (And one of those salaries can’t be relied on to stay fit) Players like Morrow, Mavinga, Delgado and Osorio really need to pick up game and find the form we know their capable of, or be moved on. Curtis stands guilty of padding the squad with completely average MLS players like Ciman, DeLeon and Boyd.(why on earth did we acquire the latter when he can’t even make the squad?) Curtis is also culpable for essentially wrecking our season by failing to add the defensive and attacking strength we badly need. Auro and Zavaletta are a bust and should be shipped out if we can find anyone who wants them. We also need to face the fact that Hamilton, Laryea, Fraser and Akinola are TFC II level players. There might be room for one in the first team squad, but not all four.

In short we need a major rebuild. Pozeula was a red herring if you ask me. Great player but not exactly the replacement needed to replace both Séba and Vazquez. I don’t think Curtis is the man to undertake this rebuild. He’s nothing more than a MLSE yes man. So the rebuild must start with a General Manager who knows what he’s doing. I always thought it weird that Giovinco, Vazquez, and Bezbatchenko left at the same time. I think there’s more to that than we’re being told.

[OgtheDim]

Not going to draw the conclusion that we are crap or they are good based on that game. Well apart from our defence being crap but we knew that already.

[stegosaurus]

I foresee a lot of sky-is-falling to come out of this one so I'm just going to say I thought we played decently and this was a game on a knife-edge we easily could have won. We had a glut of half-chances not fall our way and seriously, we were all over them in the second half. They scored an OG and a counter attack down the side of our player that was injured on the field.

We had absolutely nothing break our way today. It happens.

The depth of the team and not having any impact subs is more concerning than the result. Our strongest XI can hang with any team in the league except probably LAFC, but as constructed we're 2 injuries away from a crisis.

Agree. I thought we played reasonably well but made a ton of mistakes and did very little with the chances we got.

Injuries are concerning, our bench isn’t great, and our non DP players need to show some teeth in front of goal (Hamilton made some attempts at least). Positioning needs work too...

[Mikmacdo]

I think auro and ciman wil be out for a long time. Auro was in too much pain to go to the ground.

Now tfc had to rely on moor every game... How long will he be healthy?

[OgtheDim]

The post match official team tweets are less positive than feelings in here.

Poz saying the mentality has to change.

[stegosaurus]

The post match official team tweets are less positive than feelings in here.

Poz saying the mentality has to change.

Yep. You can see how frustrated he is too.

Also, for all the Seba haters who didn’t like him “diving” or “whining,” basically all the Philly fans were complaining about Pozo diving and whining.

Maybe Seba dove and whines for a reason — he was systematically targeted by every team. They’ll do the same to Pozo.

[Ultra & Proud]

Better see Endoh soon. Would be an upgrade on all attacking options right now minus Jozy & Pozo.

[Hamilton_Red]

So the master plan to rest players against Atlanta so we could do our best today...worked out a charm. 6 points dropped in a week..add in Portland ...at what point are we in crisis mode?

[Mikmacdo]

So the master plan to rest players against Atlanta so we could do our best today...worked out a charm. 6 points dropped in a week..add in Portland ...at what point are we in crisis mode?
When they aren’t in the top 7. At least Jozy is back and Moor but for how long?

[Red CB Toronto]

Zavs . What was up with him today? On that goal his footing sucked.

[OgtheDim]

Yes, let's blame this loss on not running our team into the ground.

We lose because our defence is crap without Moor. The fact our team only works well when 1 particular guy is playing tells me we have too many pass happy defenders not really interested in defending positionally. Other teams in this league figure out the balance. We can't get past that "they pass well “ criteria.

Which is why I still say we don't make the playoffs.

[69Chevy396]

Yes, let's blame this loss on not running our team into the ground.

We lose because our defence is crap without Moor. The fact our team only works well when 1 particular guy is playing tells me we have too many pass happy defenders not really interested in defending positionally. Other teams in this league figure out the balance. We can't get past that "they pass well “ criteria.

Which is why I still say we don't make the playoffs.
So, after ditching TSN, I discover the game is also on cfto. I decide to watch, and much to my dismay, my predictions are coming true. TFC is not a good MLS team. They proved early on, that despite allowing too many easy goals, they could beat crappy teams.When playing better sides, we are poorly organized, outplayed, cannot finish, are woeful on corners, have no players who can cross accurately, lacking in pace, and tactically, abysmal.

Take Poz out of the line up and we are bottom dwellers. The only above MLS avg players are: Poz, Bradley, Mavinga, Osorio, Altidore and Moor, when healthy. All the rest are interchangeable and would be hard pressed to start on other teams in this league.

I am really disappointed with Morrow. He was a big reason for 2017, but stinks now. hoping CFTO doesn’t cover any more games this year, because thus has spoiled another Saturday.

[stegosaurus]

Yes, let's blame this loss on not running our team into the ground.

We lose because our defence is crap without Moor. The fact our team only works well when 1 particular guy is playing tells me we have too many pass happy defenders not really interested in defending positionally. Other teams in this league figure out the balance. We can't get past that "they pass well “ criteria.

Which is why I still say we don't make the playoffs.

There’s a reason for that though. Those are the defenders Vanney needs in his system. He needs defenders who are good on the ball, who can pass, who can run forwards.

Zavaleta isn’t one, and you ideally won’t have all your defenders playing that way. That’s why Ciman becomes a liability. That’s why Bono looked abysmal too. His distribution isn’t great, and either his confidence is shot or he can’t play in the way Vanney needs him to. Westberg is better at getting out and sweeping, which we witnessed him do numerous times today.

The reason Westberg had to come out is because the central defenders are playing too far forward and getting caught out. Mavinga is a freak athlete who is able to get back but he was playing in the midfield half the game.

Then you have everyone in the midfield playing high, with Bradley running basically box to box with no backup, Pozo running box to box, and while Morrow can get back and play defensively, Auro isn’t really defensively capable.

The big problem, again, is we’re playing a style of football that this team can’t play unless all the right pieces are there, and even if they are the margins of error are high. Bradley misplaces a pass into an opposing player? They counter and catch us out.

Faster counter attacking teams are tearing us apart (Lisa), but we can’t even make adjustments unless we sit back. But if we sit back we also can’t score, because we don’t have the speed to do so.

It’s a tough place to be at. In 2017 our defense at least had a chance to breathe, because we were playing in their end and every player going forward was dangerous. Players were less likely to stop our possession by hacking our best player because it was dangerous.

There’s a lot of thought that will have to go into how this team plays, because the players who are not naturally gifted enough to understand keep making boneheaded mistakes. For some people, that’s Delgado, but Chapman has fucked up the play twice in the same way by impeding Pozo when he shouldn’t have... in multiple games... if you can teach someone not to do that, it should have been done before he became a non-youth player.

Our bench isn’t good. TFC2 prospects aren’t going to cut it for the most part. FO doesn’t seem to want to assemble a team equivalent to 2017.

Hard to figure out.

[Red4ever]

Delgado, Zavaletta and Chapman should go.

No confidence in any of them.

[stevep]

I'm going to reiterate what a lot of what people have said here earlier.

The only above MLS avg players are: Poz, Bradley, Mavinga, Osorio, Altidore and Moor, when healthy. All the rest are interchangeable and would be hard pressed to start on other teams in this league agreed, Ciman is pretty good in my opinion.

Ayo, Hamilton, Laryea, Morgan, Fraser are TFC2

Auro no good, terrible crosser, not losing anything with him injured, maybe deleon can fill that rb role
Morrow, that left side is a black hole where the play dies every time in the final third.
Maybe Morrow is good enough as a left back in a 4-3-3
Zavalleta goes without saying, what the heck was he doing on the second goal today
Marky goes without saying, jogging on first goal

good news is we are only 3 quality players (LW, RW, RB) away from being elite, barring no injuries
westberg is good

[stevep]

was caldwell not calling the game today, highlights it was all kJ

is caldwell fired??
please say yes

[Areathrasher]

was caldwell not calling the game today, highlights it was all kJ

is caldwell fired??
please say yes

Hes in England for a Burnely alumni event

[Richard]

Well that's a shame. KJ is far superior in every way.

[reggie]

yes the sky is falling.this team is slow ,predictable and so bloody boring to watch and they seem to play one good half per game.its turning into a repeat of last season,dropping points at home and leaking goals.they need at least 4 new starters .rb lw cb and another striker:scarf:

[Bushmancan]

Well that's a shame. KJ is far superior in every way.

Except that I thought KJ was the home broadcaster for Philly. He was gushing over them. Piss off they weren’t good, they were dumbass lucky. We played like shyte but still could have won. The only good thing going right now is that the east isn’t strong. Just my thoughts.

[OgtheDim]

There’s a reason for that though. Those are the defenders Vanney needs in his system.

Only 1 on the pitch at a time, and he's said as such since before we got Moor. The thought in 2017 was Zavs was going to become a second thinking mans defender - well 2017 didn't continue. Actually, a LOT of what is going on since the injuries started to pile up in CCL 2018 has been reacting to things not going according to the way 2017 said the future would be.


I saw a very very good attacking team today move the ball around with pace and guile & guys finding spaces and lines being broken & ....no finishing. This is an improvement over swing the ball around and then make a bad pass & no finishing. Sure Bradley had a bad day & Poz only makes one out of 10 of his passes & why the heck the mids don't trust Hamilton to take the rock I do not know as he was open a LOT. BUT, it was still better then what we have seen for much of this season so far.

I LOVE Westberg and his ability on the ball.

There are many many positives.

But, our defence is unbalanced & until that gets fixed, we will drop points in an annoying fashion. Now if this was 2015 level of MLS, we'd still make the playoffs - its not anymore.

[Bushmancan]

One more... The person we keep forgetting about in the success of TFC in particular and MLSE in general was Leiweke. He was quoted early in his tenure at MLSE that TFC was the first team he could win a championship with.

The new leadership doesn’t think like him. They have been so used to TORONTO making money while being mediocre. He didn’t accept that and understood the value of a winner. Whether it was directly on the books or all the ancillary pull through revenues for MLSE (Merchandise, Content, Media, Sponsorship etc).


This team has the resources to be the dominant franchise in MLS. Curtis did a great job at NYRB but he needs to push the envelope and get us back to the top. ... no excuses.

[paul-collins]

I thought Bradley was uncharacteristically weak today.

Passing was off. Like, 2 feet off every target. Teamwide, including Poz, Westburg, everyone really.

Hamilton did a great job of dragging defenders around.

If you can't hit a target with your pass, you're going to turn it over. We did, constantly. A more typical execution by this team and we win handily.

We can't direct aerial balls at all. Headers are always aimless.

Yeah Philly were dirty cheap and cheats. But that game was there for the taking.

[Auzzy]

Not sure why "notthesun" is trying to belittle what is going on here, and how people feel, with "sky is falling" comments.. Philly also had lots of additional chances today, and could easily have scored 2 or 3 more. Things are not looking good, from management to coaching to players. Allowing in 1.7 goals per game is not a recipe for success.

Sure things can turn around, but we keep on seeing things go the wrong way. From not negotiating contracts and signing necessary players in a timely fashion. To repeatedly playing a formation that does not seem to consider the team's current strengths and weaknesses. Osorio and even Pozuelo are not part of the play enough to be able to create things. Osorio often too far on the wing; Poz often too far forward. And Poz doesn't have enough forward targets to pass to.

And then the players not executing. Why do they keep passing the ball around in the opponent's box; shoot the fucking ball!! Even Altidore was guilty of that once. Osorio had that amazing goal recently; and also some good assists this season. But today he was scuffing his shots again.

Read John Molinaro's article after today's game: Vanney again saying that the players aren't playing the way they are asked to. He's said that a couple of times in recent interviews. If that happens repeatedly, that's a big problem.

[MightyDM]

I thought Bradley was uncharacteristically weak today.

Passing was off. Like, 2 feet off every target. Teamwide, including Poz, Westburg, everyone really.

Hamilton did a great job of dragging defenders around.

If you can't hit a target with your pass, you're going to turn it over. We did, constantly. A more typical execution by this team and we win handily.

We can't direct aerial balls at all. Headers are always aimless.

Yeah Philly were dirty cheap and cheats. But that game was there for the taking.

Hamilton was really good. But our midfielders kept waiting too long when his runs demanded an early ball. The times they did that, the team made something happen.

From where we sat, Ciman and Delgado had much better games than normal.

But something is off with the team. They were yelling at each other. A lot. But I don’t think it is that. I think it’s the lack of balance catching up with us. Whatever it is, without Jozy, this is our level.

[paul-collins]

From where we sat, Ciman and Delgado had much better games than normal.

But something is off with the team. They were yelling at each other. A lot. But I don’t think it is that. I think it’s the lack of balance catching up with us. Whatever it is, without Jozy, this is our level.
Delgado to me was hot and cold, but his hot was looking more like 2017 at least. I agree that Ciman looked good until he went down (and that did not look good at all). That happened right in front of me, it was like he had been shot. I'm kind of pissed that the guy he had just beaten to win the ball stepped around him and shot at net. Cheap.

I noticed the yelling early on too. Less of it in the 2nd half, but the frustration with either the bad timing of runs or the bad passes was boiling over. (I lean toward the passes being off, rather than the runners going to the wrong place)

One thing I notice is that we are not having someone run into a space in the middle of a defensive setup, we have a lot of perimeter targets but I don't see how you're supposed to go side to side over 3 defenders other than the swing around through the back. We need midfielders coming into the closer space, turning and putting it to the next target. This started to get better in the 2nd half but it was obvious for the first 60 minutes. (Was true against Portland too)

[reggie]

Read John Molinaro's article after today's game: Vanney again saying that the players aren't playing the way they are asked to. He's said that a couple of times in recent interviews. If that happens repeatedly, that's a big problem.

he wants to play like man city ,without the proper players..maybe we will get some wingers in the next 2 years.

[Auzzy]

Read John Molinaro's article after today's game: Vanney again saying that the players aren't playing the way they are asked to. He's said that a couple of times in recent interviews. If that happens repeatedly, that's a big problem.

he wants to play like man city ,without the proper players..maybe we will get some wingers in the next 2 years.

Did you read the article?

[stegosaurus]

Did you read the article?

No one reads anything... it’s the internet.

[reggie]

Did you read the article?
yes i did...why do you ask

[Auzzy]

yes i did...why do you ask

I agree that Vanney doesn't seem very realistic. For example the lineup & formation, compared with the capabilities of the players out there. But some of what he said in this & previous interviews, isn't unreasonable. People on here have been crying for some of the same things. I.e. don't just pass the ball around for possession sake. Pass with an attacking purpose (and take some friggin shots: the way they pass the ball around in the opposing penalty area is nuts).

There seems to be a disconnect. Coach often doesn't seem realistic. The players often aren't listening to the coach. And what they do instead, isn't really any better.

[reggie]

i agree...i also think vanney doesnt have the horses he wants and needs to play the way he wants to

[Hamilton_Red]

Bradley is the core issue for me. I think that he has been told by the team that they are not going to re-sign him as a DP. That (like most of the folk here think) he will only be offered a TAM deal... He knows that there are several MLS teams that will give him a 3 year DP deal... and well he has become less vested in TFC. He is leaving at the end of the year and he knows it.

[MightyDM]

Delgado to me was hot and cold, but his hot was looking more like 2017 at least. I agree that Ciman looked good until he went down (and that did not look good at all). That happened right in front of me, it was like he had been shot.
I thought that was his Achilles . That’s how it happens - sudden

I'm kind of pissed that the guy he had just beaten to win the ball stepped around him and shot at net. Cheap.

I noticed the yelling early on too. Less of it in the 2nd half, but the frustration with either the bad timing of runs or the bad passes was boiling over. (I lean toward the passes being off, rather than the runners going to the wrong place)

One thing I notice is that we are not having someone run into a space in the middle of a defensive setup, we have a lot of perimeter targets but I don't see how you're supposed to go side to side over 3 defenders other than the swing around through the back. We need midfielders coming into the closer space, turning and putting it to the next target. This started to get better in the 2nd half but it was obvious for the first 60 minutes. (Was true against Portland too) interesting observation. Accounts for my point that “something was off”. Only bright spots are that Westburgh and Chapman continue to develop.[/B]

[stegosaurus]

was off “interesting observation. Accounts for my point that “something was off”. Only bright spots are that Westburgh and Chapman continue to develop.

Chapman cost us a goal yesterday doing something professional footballers shouldn’t be doing.

[Ultra & Proud]

Unless the system changes or players follow what Vanney is telling them then no amount of new TAM wingers, CBs, or forwards will make any difference.

The core issues must be addressed first and if they don't change then lets get to some good ol' trading, 2011 style. Turnover a chunk of the squad and see what happens.

[stegosaurus]

Only 1 on the pitch at a time, and he's said as such since before we got Moor. The thought in 2017 was Zavs was going to become a second thinking mans defender - well 2017 didn't continue. Actually, a LOT of what is going on since the injuries started to pile up in CCL 2018 has been reacting to things not going according to the way 2017 said the future would be.


I saw a very very good attacking team today move the ball around with pace and guile & guys finding spaces and lines being broken & ....no finishing. This is an improvement over swing the ball around and then make a bad pass & no finishing. Sure Bradley had a bad day & Poz only makes one out of 10 of his passes & why the heck the mids don't trust Hamilton to take the rock I do not know as he was open a LOT. BUT, it was still better then what we have seen for much of this season so far.

I LOVE Westberg and his ability on the ball.

There are many many positives.

But, our defence is unbalanced & until that gets fixed, we will drop points in an annoying fashion. Now if this was 2015 level of MLS, we'd still make the playoffs - its not anymore.

I wish it was easier to edit the quotes on my phone...

I realize that you don’t need two CBs who can pass to play out the back, but our CBs are currently Moor/Zavaleta and Mavinga/Ciman. I agree Zavaleta was supposed to step up and be the Moor successor after a good season, but he makes a lot of money for a player of his caliber who is pretty middling at this point for an MLS defender. He’s not fast, not good in the air, doesn’t have the IQ, etc. He’s an MLS 1.0 defender who sometimes plays well.

That’s on the FO again.

Pozo had 84% pass accuracy and was 5/5 for long balls. He was literally calling for the ball multiple times while open and the rest of the players felt like passing it back or losing it. The weak link was Bradley.

Hamilton was okay but he did nothing when he had the ball, he’s slow, and he missed runs.

They were still swinging the ball in and missing too.

Again — this wasn’t a bad game, but it highlights the issues.

[nonc]

A CB has to be signed. Ciman is the best one and that shouldn't be the case. Mavinga has been clowning most of the year, I'm not even sure he likes soccer, just the slide tackle. Moor is done, Zavaleta is terrible and showed why again yesterday not being able to win headers against a player he's got half a foot on, also looking slow and silly on the second goal against.

[stegosaurus]

A CB has to be signed. Ciman is the best one and that shouldn't be the case. Mavinga has been clowning most of the year, I'm not even sure he likes soccer, just the slide tackle. Moor is done, Zavaleta is terrible and showed why again yesterday not being able to win headers against a player he's got half a foot on, also looking slow and silly on the second goal against.

While we do need a CB, Mavinga is our best CB, fits Vanney’s needs, and is only 27. He’s one of the best CBs in the league and has saved us numerous times. Only reason for the OG yesterday is that he had to try to do the job our two other CBs (Ciman and Zavaleta) should have done.

Zavaleta isn’t good but he is a typical MLS defender, just on an inflated salary.

[Mikmacdo]

Bradley is the core issue for me. I think that he has been told by the team that they are not going to re-sign him as a DP. That (like most of the folk here think) he will only be offered a TAM deal... He knows that there are several MLS teams that will give him a 3 year DP deal... and well he has become less vested in TFC. He is leaving at the end of the year and he knows it.
If Bradley leaves its a good thing. He isn’t worthy of a DP spot, he isn’t connecting with Pozuelo well. To me your three DPs should be a 10 (Poz), Striker(Jozy) and an elite winger.

[Derko]

A CB has to be signed. Ciman is the best one and that shouldn't be the case. Mavinga has been clowning most of the year, I'm not even sure he likes soccer, just the slide tackle. Moor is done, Zavaleta is terrible and showed why again yesterday not being able to win headers against a player he's got half a foot on, also looking slow and silly on the second goal against.

I don't agree, your opinion obviously but I don't know what you are seeing, not the same as me, MJavinga has saved so many goals this season I cannot count them

[Auzzy]

Really turning into a hot takes thread here.... :D

[Initial B]

You know, I would be okay with losing to Philly on Saturday if it means we beat them on Sunday. Having severe 2001 flashbacks here...
Sorry guys, wasn't expecting a couple of player sacrifices as well.

[Canary10]

While we do need a CB, Mavinga is our best CB, fits Vanney’s needs, and is only 27. He’s one of the best CBs in the league and has saved us numerous times. Only reason for the OG yesterday is that he had to try to do the job our two other CBs (Ciman and Zavaleta) should have done.

Zavaleta isn’t good but he is a typical MLS defender, just on an inflated salary.

I agree with what you are saying about Mavinga in general, but he got caught on the wrong side of the player on that goal, and it happened a few other times as well. His concentration/positioning seemed a bit off to me Saturday. A bit slow to react, although he usually makes up for that with his speed and insane tackling ability.

[Canary10]

Not sure why "notthesun" is trying to belittle what is going on here, and how people feel, with "sky is falling" comments.. Philly also had lots of additional chances today, and could easily have scored 2 or 3 more. Things are not looking good, from management to coaching to players. Allowing in 1.7 goals per game is not a recipe for success.

Sure things can turn around, but we keep on seeing things go the wrong way. From not negotiating contracts and signing necessary players in a timely fashion. To repeatedly playing a formation that does not seem to consider the team's current strengths and weaknesses. Osorio and even Pozuelo are not part of the play enough to be able to create things. Osorio often too far on the wing; Poz often too far forward. And Poz doesn't have enough forward targets to pass to.

And then the players not executing. Why do they keep passing the ball around in the opponent's box; shoot the fucking ball!! Even Altidore was guilty of that once. Osorio had that amazing goal recently; and also some good assists this season. But today he was scuffing his shots again.

Read John Molinaro's article after today's game: Vanney again saying that the players aren't playing the way they are asked to. He's said that a couple of times in recent interviews. If that happens repeatedly, that's a big problem.

On a good number of those the ball was pinging around the box and just wouldn't fall for anyone to shoot.

[stegosaurus]

I agree with what you are saying about Mavinga in general, but he got caught on the wrong side of the player on that goal, and it happened a few other times as well. His concentration/positioning seemed a bit off to me Saturday. A bit slow to react, although he usually makes up for that with his speed and insane tackling ability.

Yeah, but it was more a minor error and everything. Had the ball come in an inch one way or another and it would have bounced off his knee differently and either missed the net or been slow enough for Westberg to grab it.

The attack came through a whole lot of people doing nothing and playing too high, Ciman made little attempt to shut down the cross or angle, and Mavinga prevented the shot albeit from the wrong side and then it came off his knee into goal...

Second goal was just as silly... Zavaleta, Ciman and Morrow all useless with Bradley jogging behind.

Both attacks came through the same side.

[Ultra & Proud]

Second goal was just as silly... Zavaleta, Ciman and Morrow all useless with Bradley jogging behind.

Both attacks came through the same side.

That was the pattern last season as well. That side is often weak in defending and of course Zavaleta is there so...

[Canary10]

Yeah, but it was more a minor error and everything. Had the ball come in an inch one way or another and it would have bounced off his knee differently and either missed the net or been slow enough for Westberg to grab it.

The attack came through a whole lot of people doing nothing and playing too high, Ciman made little attempt to shut down the cross or angle, and Mavinga prevented the shot albeit from the wrong side and then it came off his knee into goal...

Second goal was just as silly... Zavaleta, Ciman and Morrow all useless with Bradley jogging behind.

Both attacks came through the same side.

Yeah, absolutely. I was just commenting on the last bit of that play. If Mavinga was goal side it wouldn't have been a goal. But, yeah, that was probably the smallest mistake in a line of things that happened in the lead up.

[ensco]

We were bad on that second goal, but I want to recognize Monteiro's quality there, he really created something out of nothing.

I understand why Philly moved Accam now (they apparently are using the dollars on Monteiro's buyout). Monteiro is a player.

[nonc]

Mavinga wasn't good when not injured last year either, he's not right since 2017. So often out of position and I've lost track of how many penalties he's given up from completely unnecessary tackles.

Oh yeah Monteiro I think that's who Zavaleta couldn't win a header from.

[OgtheDim]

Our defence has issues being able to adjust on the fly when Moor isn't on the pitch.

If Moor is on the pitch, he sees Auro hobble & immediately starts yelling at his teammates to get them in position. Ciman hasn't the experience with this lot to do that, yet.

[ag futbol]

^ Someone did a good breakdown of each goal yesterday on Twitter.

Goal #1: Delgado gives away the ball. Auro is instantly caught high. Zavaleta goes tight to prevent the Union player from turning and running at speed. Not a bad decision; however, the second the runner starts moving up the flank for the break out Zavaleta has to make the tactical foul and stop the play. He doesn’t. The union player releases the runner who crosses the ball in for the goal as Ciman can’t cover on time and Mavinga is just plain unlucky.

Goal #2. We actually had a numerical advantage in terms of players defending vs. Attacking but Zavaleta is slow, doesn’t spot the danger inside from the late run, and moves to double team the winger with Ciman when he shouldn’t. This puts someone (Mivinga I think) in a tough spot coming across late to close down the player. Again it’s too late and it’s 2-1 union.

Honestly Zavaleta’s continues inclusion within the team has gone long after its best-before date. I would take the chance on someone else who could develop as opposed to a player we already know is too slow and can’t read the game well.

This has become a farsical charitable exercise at nearly 300k a year in salary

Separately, I think part of the reason we are seeing this crap is because Bradley’s recovery runs and physically dominance in the midfield isn’t what it used to be. It once covered for the fact we pushed a lot of players forward and at least some of our CB’s were shit. No more, it seems.

[stegosaurus]

Yeah, absolutely. I was just commenting on the last bit of that play. If Mavinga was goal side it wouldn't have been a goal. But, yeah, that was probably the smallest mistake in a line of things that happened in the lead up.

For sure.

[stegosaurus]

^ Someone did a good breakdown of each goal yesterday on Twitter.

Yeah. I’m fine with Ciman as a Maviga backup, which I thought was why he was here. Zavaleta doesn’t have any upside as he isn’t even cheap, and if Vanney is playing them this way it doesn’t even make sense.

At some point, you can’t just hope Moor can play — you have to adjust towards a style of play that doesn’t see us as easily exploited. If we score 4 goals a game and win 4-3, that’s one thing. But when the “goals will come” but don’t, there has to be some changes. Adding another CB who is anonymous isn’t going to help when you’re losing the ball constantly and everyone is too far up the pitch to even defend the counters.

[Ultra & Proud]

Separately, I think part of the reason we are seeing this crap is because Bradley’s recovery runs and physically dominance in the midfield isn’t what it used to be. It once covered for the fact we pushed a lot of players forward and at least some of our CB’s were shit. No more, it seems.
He needs to just anchor in front the back line. Straight up DM. Sometimes his foot speed seemed okay but I also think his days of 90+ minutes per match for 36+ matches a season has passed.

That being said I still stick to what I said that if our style of play doesn't adjust to what Vanney says he wants to do then either we fire him or we trade Delgado & Bradley. Those are my two main culprits when it comes to dragging the speed down with shit passing and purposeless possession.

[dow117]

We keep talking about defensive issue. While it needs improvement, our attacking options are a bigger worry. We are "in" every game so far & out - "stat" the opposition but we cannot score or even shoot on net. Are we now entering another era of a losing culture whereby the players lack confidence in team mates & themselves to win the games where we outplay opponents. We knew more than a year ago that we needed additions to stay competitive & as folk say , we are 2 injuries way from bottom feeding again. This is hugely disappointing for a team with the largest payroll. To announce 5-6 weeks ago that signings would "happen within a week " to find out that their clubs wont release them ? . I have now lowered my expectations not my support in order to deal with our table position after next 10 games.

[Ultra & Proud]

We keep talking about defensive issue. While it needs improvement, our attacking options are a bigger worry. We are "in" every game so far & out - "stat" the opposition but we cannot score or even shoot on net. Are we now entering another era of a losing culture whereby the players lack confidence in team mates & themselves to win the games where we outplay opponents. We knew more than a year ago that we needed additions to stay competitive & as folk say , we are 2 injuries way from bottom feeding again. This is hugely disappointing for a team with the largest payroll. To announce 5-6 weeks ago that signings would "happen within a week " to find out that their clubs wont release them ? . I have now lowered my expectations not my support in order to deal with our table position after next 10 games.

Like I said earlier, we could have signed 4 TAM guys and unless we correct our style of play, shape, and tactics then no amount of new players minus individual displays of brilliance will matter.

[ag futbol]

Like I said earlier, we could have signed 4 TAM guys and unless we correct our style of play, shape, and tactics then no amount of new players minus individual displays of brilliance will matter.
Interesting point made post-game by KJ. Basically saying we are living on displays of individual brilliance and the “system” by itself is not providing much in the way of opportunity to score.

Sometimes it’s hard to see with this team what is tactical and what is a failure to execute said tactics.

I might have described Saturday as a bit of both. With tactics leaving is vulnerable on goal one and pure stupidity killing us on goal two. The best coach in the world couldn’t have saved Zavaleta from himself there

[SirBobSaget]

He needs to just anchor in front the back line. Straight up DM. Sometimes his foot speed seemed okay but I also think his days of 90+ minutes per match for 36+ matches a season has passed.

That being said I still stick to what I said that if our style of play doesn't adjust to what Vanney says he wants to do then either we fire him or we trade Delgado & Bradley. Those are my two main culprits when it comes to dragging the speed down with shit passing and purposeless possession.

In the Philly way game Bradley was outstanding when given the freedom to jump into attack when needed. Since Poz came in Bradley's role is what exactly? Destroyer DM, Box to Box, Deep Playmaker?

Since Pozuelo joined Bradley has not had a good impact on the offensive side. He's not playing attempting short precise asses that are being intercepted and never running up to support the attack. He's being wasted. Bradley dind't suddenly turn into a terrible player he's not being supported propperly same as a bunch of other that are square pegs in round Vanney holes

[MightyDM]

^ Someone did a good breakdown of each goal yesterday on Twitter.

Goal #1: Delgado gives away the ball. Auro is instantly caught high. Zavaleta goes tight to prevent the Union player from turning and running at speed. Not a bad decision; however, the second the runner starts moving up the flank for the break out Zavaleta has to make the tactical foul and stop the play. He doesn’t. The union player releases the runner who crosses the ball in for the goal as Ciman can’t cover on time and Mavinga is just plain unlucky.

Goal #2. We actually had a numerical advantage in terms of players defending vs. Attacking but Zavaleta is slow, doesn’t spot the danger inside from the late run, and moves to double team the winger with Ciman when he shouldn’t. This puts someone (Mivinga I think) in a tough spot coming across late to close down the player. Again it’s too late and it’s 2-1 union.

Honestly Zavaleta’s continues inclusion within the team has gone long after its best-before date. I would take the chance on someone else who could develop as opposed to a player we already know is too slow and can’t read the game well.

This has become a farsical charitable exercise at nearly 300k a year in salary

Separately, I think part of the reason we are seeing this crap is because Bradley’s recovery runs and physically dominance in the midfield isn’t what it used to be. It once covered for the fact we pushed a lot of players forward and at least some of our CB’s were shit. No more, it seems.

Pretty sure Pozuelo gave the ball away on the first goal.

[MightyDM]

In the Philly way game Bradley was outstanding when given the freedom to jump into attack when needed. Since Poz came in Bradley's role is what exactly? Destroyer DM, Box to Box, Deep Playmaker?

Since Pozuelo joined Bradley has not had a good impact on the offensive side. He's not playing attempting short precise asses that are being intercepted and never running up to support the attack. He's being wasted. Bradley dind't suddenly turn into a terrible player he's not being supported propperly same as a bunch of other that are square pegs in round Vanney holes

Ya, there is something to this

[paul-collins]

In the Philly way game Bradley was outstanding when given the freedom to jump into attack when needed. Since Poz came in Bradley's role is what exactly? Destroyer DM, Box to Box, Deep Playmaker?
In the NYCFC game that Pozuelo exploded, we played 4-2-3-1 with Bradley in the 2, Poz centrally in the 3, and Altidore up top.

Bringing Pozuelo closer to Bradley is better for the team.

Having him up top as one of the 2 is IMO a waste. In the 3-5-2 we played on Saturday I'd have swapped Poz and Osorio, so that Poz can be fed more directly by Bradley.

To me this is much more explicitly the role Vazquez played for us in 2017.

[stegosaurus]

In the NYCFC game that Pozuelo exploded, we played 4-2-3-1 with Bradley in the 2, Poz centrally in the 3, and Altidore up top.

Bringing Pozuelo closer to Bradley is better for the team.

Having him up top as one of the 2 is IMO a waste. In the 3-5-2 we played on Saturday I'd have swapped Poz and Osorio, so that Poz can be fed more directly by Bradley.

To me this is much more explicitly the role Vazquez played for us in 2017.

He has never been “up top as one of the 2” though (unless you mean he also was against NYCFC), and Pozo isn’t here to slot into Vazquez’ role. He’s here to play the 10 in a 4-3-3 that we can’t play because we don’t have the players to do it.

Considering how talented he is compared to MLS defenders, we may as well play with Pozo up top with Jozy and put Osorio or Chapman behind since they’d be Pozo’s backup if he ever has to sit a match anyway. It would save him from having to run up and down the pitch for 90’ at least...

[paul-collins]

He has never been “up top as one of the 2” though (unless you mean he also was against NYCFC), and Pozo isn’t here to slot into Vazquez’ role. He’s here to play the 10 in a 4-3-3 that we can’t play because we don’t have the players to do it.
The lineups submitted show him sitting behind a lone striker, but in practice it's been pretty equal in who is challenging the last defender, and then walking back once the opposition possession has moved forward (note this is not a criticism, it is simply an observation as to the function).

Why wouldn't we put him a little deeper in transition? I'm not looking for him to come back and defend (Vazquez wasn't expected to do that either) but I currently feel he's not getting service because when we gain possession he's too far up the pitch.

Managing his legs is a valid concern, though.

[Ultra & Proud]

Pozo was going way too deep the past few matches. He really had no choice because if our mids have their way they would just recycle it back to the D and to the GK over and over until hopefully the opposing team gets lulled into boredom and we can pounce on their somnolence.

[stegosaurus]

The lineups submitted show him sitting behind a lone striker, but in practice it's been pretty equal in who is challenging the last defender, and then walking back once the opposition possession has moved forward (note this is not a criticism, it is simply an observation as to the function).

Why wouldn't we put him a little deeper in transition? I'm not looking for him to come back and defend (Vazquez wasn't expected to do that either) but I currently feel he's not getting service because when we gain possession he's too far up the pitch.

Managing his legs is a valid concern, though.

I’d prefer Pozo playing higher but he’s often back to retrieve balls or bring the ball up.

There are times when he’s basically back in our box.

[OgtheDim]

Jozy fined for that kick into the stands.

[stegosaurus]

Jozy fined for that kick into the stands.

Was Osorio fined for his dive, or are embellishment fines only if they weren’t yellow carded at the time?

[OgtheDim]

No other TFC fines.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/05/14/mls-disciplinary-committee-fines-altidore-aranguiz-and-etienne-jr

[stegosaurus]

No other TFC fines.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/05/14/mls-disciplinary-committee-fines-altidore-aranguiz-and-etienne-jr

Looks like it’s only if they don’t card you then.