PDA

View Full Version : Was that penalty shot the right call?



Baggio2TFC
08-03-2008, 08:04 PM
I always understood that any fouls committed in or out of the box where the ball was not in the area of the foul was called a indirect kick...am I right or wrong??

Oblio2
08-03-2008, 08:07 PM
Foul in the box. Penalty.
Right call.

Canadian Blue
08-03-2008, 08:10 PM
Foul in the box. Penalty.
Right call.

I am not to sure about that.......a foul off the ball nowhere near the play should not have warranted a penalty.

Someone look up the rule.

leedsutd85
08-03-2008, 08:10 PM
I asked myself the same question. I'm pretty sure it's an indirect free kick.

Nestease
08-03-2008, 08:12 PM
it's a penalty kick as long as the ball is in play.

arbogast
08-03-2008, 08:15 PM
it was a good call.

leedsutd85
08-03-2008, 08:16 PM
An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if, in the
opinion of the referee, a player:
• plays in a dangerous manner
• impedes the progress of an opponent
• prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
• commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12,
for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lotg%5fen%5f55753.pdf

Baggio2TFC
08-03-2008, 08:22 PM
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following six offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences:

tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball
holds an opponent
spits at an opponent
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.* (see preface)

Penalty Kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.

I think he made the right call...SHIT!!!

Oblio2
08-03-2008, 08:23 PM
A penalty kick is awarded against a team that commits one of the ten offences for which a direct fre kick is awarded, inside it's own penalty area and while the ball is in play

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following 7 offences in a manner consdidred by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force.

* Kicks or attempts to kick and opponent
* trips or attempots to trip an opponent
* jumps at an opponent
* charges an opponent
* strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
* pushes an opponent
* Tackles an opponent

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the follwing 3 offences :

* holds an opponent
* spits at an opponent
* handles the ball deliberately

A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occured
(see Law 13-Position of the Free Kick)

Penalty Kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of the 10 offences is comitted by a player in his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball, as long as it's in play

TFC OZZ
08-03-2008, 08:30 PM
Wow, I was very confident that was a bogus call, I was under the impression that the attacking player had to be involved in the play towards the goal ie. crossing, shooting, heading etc.

What immediatly pops up in my mind, is that fateful day where Dichio scored TFC's first ever goal, didn't he AND ANOTHER PLAYER FROM CHICAGO get red carded in the box? I don't remember a penalty being called there... --(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Whatever I still wanted to make that ref my hood ornament.

Canadian Blue
08-03-2008, 08:30 PM
I stand corrected

rocker
08-03-2008, 08:31 PM
i'd like to see the video of the Hemming play near the end where he got knocked down.
seemed like the ref fucked that one up.... of course it was a judgement call

Chevy
08-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Wow, I was very confident that was a bogus call, I was under the impression that the attacking player had to be involved in the play towards the goal ie. crossing, shooting, heading etc.

What immediatly pops up in my mind, is that fateful day where Dichio scored TFC's first ever goal, didn't he AND ANOTHER PLAYER FROM CHICAGO get red carded in the box? I don't remember a penalty being called there... --(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Whatever I still wanted to make that ref my hood ornament.

Trure, the fouls were in the box (in the net even if I remember correctly) but the ball wasn't in play at the time Dichio tried to strangle the Chicago player.

ExiledRed
08-03-2008, 08:49 PM
Wow, I was very confident that was a bogus call, I was under the impression that the attacking player had to be involved in the play towards the goal ie. crossing, shooting, heading etc.

What immediatly pops up in my mind, is that fateful day where Dichio scored TFC's first ever goal, didn't he AND ANOTHER PLAYER FROM CHICAGO get red carded in the box? I don't remember a penalty being called there... --(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Whatever I still wanted to make that ref my hood ornament.

Play wasnt active at the time of the incident

and also the attacking player instigated his red card before the defending team got one as well.

andyc
08-03-2008, 08:54 PM
I'd love to see a decent replay of the incident...

Live - I was pretty close and didn't see anything deserving a red card.

On the big screen - No reply.

On CBC (PVR) - no way to tell.

I'm pretty sure that based on how long the linesman talked to the ref and the way the body language went, he didn't see the foul either...

Yeah I know the guy got a bloody nose but a lot of shit happens in a tussle...

Oblio2
08-03-2008, 08:57 PM
If you look close, you can see Guevera throw and elbow or a punch

colman1860
08-03-2008, 09:01 PM
The first call is the decisive one. During the Dichio-Gutierrez fight, the ball was out of play for a corner or goal kick. Therefore, that was still the restart. If you remember the Czech Rep – Turkey game at the euros, the ball went out of bounds for a GK, then the Turkish keeper (Volkan Demirel) knocked over Jan Koller – Red Card, but the restart stays the same.

andyc
08-03-2008, 09:01 PM
On cbc replay?

colman1860
08-03-2008, 09:05 PM
I'd love to see a decent replay of the incident...

Live - I was pretty close and didn't see anything deserving a red card.

On the big screen - No reply.

On CBC (PVR) - no way to tell.

I'm pretty sure that based on how long the linesman talked to the ref and the way the body language went, he didn't see the foul either...

Yeah I know the guy got a bloody nose but a lot of shit happens in a tussle...

I believe the ref talking to the linesman for a while was about whether it was inside or outside the box - the linesman had a much better position than the ref to judge that, and the ref only blew his whistle and sent off Guevara, he did not point at the spot before talking to his linesman. You could tell that the players were still hoping it would be a free kick – Marshall placed the ball outside the box during the discussion.
Also, I talked to Nigel Reed after the game, who said it was definitely a punch to the face by Guevara, and that it took place right on the line of the box. The line belongs to the box, so correct call.

Footie-11
08-03-2008, 09:10 PM
Unfortunatly correct call... if Guevara did infact lash out. I didnt get a good replay but judging from the other posters it sounds like the red was deserving.

Oblio2
08-03-2008, 09:11 PM
Actually, the Ref pointed to the spot BEFORE going to the Linesman

Donald Duck
08-03-2008, 09:15 PM
anyone think it should be a yellow instead of red? home advantage right?
and how about the second red to Velez?

colman1860
08-03-2008, 09:17 PM
He did? Well, he can still change the restart (penalty or freekick) after he makes the original call, he just cant take back cards or fouls. So this must have been what he was discussing with the linesman.

colman1860
08-03-2008, 09:18 PM
anyone think it should be a yellow instead of red? home advantage right?
and how about the second red to Velez?

LMAO @ U!
And velez already had a yellow and obviously told the ref where he could stick his whistle.

Donald Duck
08-03-2008, 09:22 PM
i know Velez alrady had a yellow... and wtf he did in order to get a red? I can't even see anything from my section... both times I just saw the ref took out the red card man....

Nestease
08-03-2008, 09:23 PM
anyone think it should be a yellow instead of red? home advantage right?


No. Card colours aren't at the refs discretion in this case. If he thought there was an intent to injure (especially off the ball) its an automatic red.

andyc
08-03-2008, 09:29 PM
So since I didn't see this as well as lots of people - did Guevera just lash out for shits and giggles or was there any preceeding incident?? I really can't see him punching someone for no reason - he's not Harmse FFS...

And if he was provoked why wasn't that called...

Oh yes the penalty was called before the ref talked to the linesman. I'm pretty sure that the linesman told the ref he was wrong based on the way the body language went...

I'd love to take the whole officating crew out for a beer tonight - maybe not all of them would get home safely....

dag
08-03-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm guessing the Velez dismissal was a result of dissent. Didn't he kick the ball into the stands after Dallas was awarded the throw in?

Phil
08-03-2008, 09:35 PM
Guevara admited to punching him. He is wondering why Ricchetti didn't get a card for elbowing him first.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2008/08/03/tfc_fcdallas/

colman1860
08-03-2008, 09:35 PM
So since I didn't see this as well as lots of people - did Guevera just lash out for shits and giggles or was there any preceeding incident?? I really can't see him punching someone for no reason - he's not Harmse FFS...

And if he was provoked why wasn't that called...

Oh yes the penalty was called before the ref talked to the linesman. I'm pretty sure that the linesman told the ref he was wrong based on the way the body language went...

I'd love to take the whole officating crew out for a beer tonight - maybe not all of them would get home safely....

Well whether the linesman told the ref he was wrong or not, he made the right call. So have all the beer you want.

andyc
08-03-2008, 09:40 PM
Based on what you saw?? What Nigel Reed apparently saw?? Certainly not what the CBC replays show from my PVR... Oh yeah you never answered my provocation question either...

Also stick your beer comment up your prissy ass...

summer sunrise
08-03-2008, 09:43 PM
So since I didn't see this as well as lots of people - did Guevera just lash out for shits and giggles or was there any preceeding incident?? I really can't see him punching someone for no reason - he's not Harmse FFS...



He got elbowed in the throat, and swung in reaction. Unfortunate that he got the asshat in the nose, really.

loconet
08-03-2008, 09:44 PM
Guevara admited to punching him. He is wondering why Ricchetti didn't get a card for elbowing him first.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2008/08/03/tfc_fcdallas/


Yup. I asked Guevara (in spanish) at the exit if the guy deserved it .. he said yes, he elbowed him more than once right before. But of course the ref only saw the end.

Roogsy
08-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Because the ref was crap.

Footie-11
08-03-2008, 09:50 PM
the ref was an asshole. I thought the red card to Velez was brutal. He misses an obvious call then knowing Velez was on a yellow, gave him another because Velez said somthing to him.

rocker
08-03-2008, 09:55 PM
was the Brennan offside correct?
from my vantage point way in the distance it looked onside ;)
I mean there were 4 dallas defenders back there, so it seemed like to would be onside.
but I haven't seen video yet.

andyc
08-03-2008, 09:56 PM
I like Brennans comment about all of us being here to see the ref...

His stupid actions have and will affect the result of this game and at least the next game. A good ref shouldn't be noticed - This ref should be pinned up on a fucking how not to ref notice board!

Roogsy
08-03-2008, 09:57 PM
The fact that this is one of the refs that was hired full time for the league absolutely shocks me.

SilverSamurai
08-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Ref seemed to just snap at weird times.
Couldn't see the Guevara card in the replay.
Can Velez appeal the 1st yellow card? That 1st one was BS. If so he should be able to play the next game...

ExiledRed
08-03-2008, 10:08 PM
The opposing player committed a foul. This occurs first, it wasnt called, and it should have been.

If this is called, Guevara's reaction gets a red, but we get the free kick.

andyc
08-03-2008, 10:11 PM
The opposing player committed a foul. This occurs first, it wasnt called, and it should have been.

If this is called, Guevara's reaction gets a red, but we get the free kick.

That I could live with... A red and a penalty against us is just fucking stupid. Not even anything we can appeal against. These officials should be relagated to U6 house league :taz:

tlear
08-03-2008, 10:18 PM
Guevara should have gotten him earlier, little fuck deserved his face to be busted but not in or near the penalty area. After 2nd goal I wish one of the subs hacked the fucker good an put him out of commission for a while

Dirk Diggler
08-03-2008, 10:18 PM
Based on what you saw?? What Nigel Reed apparently saw?? Certainly not what the CBC replays show from my PVR... Oh yeah you never answered my provocation question either...

Also stick your beer comment up your prissy ass...

It doesn't matter if there was previous provocation. A referee can't do anything about something he or his assistants didn't see. However, when he sees someone punch or elbow someone else, he can't just let it slide because it may have been provoked. Obviously no one angrily punches someone else for absolutely no reason.

bhoybobby
08-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Guevara is a selfish player, he should be fined for that stupic act

Blizzard
08-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Guevara should have gotten him earlier, little fuck deserved his face to be busted but not in or near the penalty area. After 2nd goal I wish one of the subs hacked the fucker good an put him out of commission for a while

Marshall perhaps? :D

andyc
08-03-2008, 10:24 PM
It doesn't matter if there was previous provocation. A referee can't do anything about something he or his assistants didn't see. However, when he sees someone punch or elbow someone else, he can't just let it slide because it may have been provoked. Obviously no one angrily punches someone else for absolutely no reason.

So how come they only saw the reaction from Guevara?? My issue is that this sitiation built over time so why penalize the final reaction? How can they only see the punch? Or maybe they missed that too and reacted to the resulting bloody nose....

Any way you look at it, the officiating is shit...

Roogsy
08-03-2008, 10:24 PM
You would've done the same bhoybobby...most players would. The ref wasn't calling the abuse all the way down...he was only going to take so much. He took ownership for the red...but rightly asked why the Dallas player was left off the hook. THAT is what we should be asking.

And at this point...I am hoping the organization itself raises the issue with MLS, not just the press complaints from the players and Carver. I think the FO needs to make this a formal issue with MLS itself.

tlear
08-03-2008, 10:28 PM
Marshall perhaps? :D

Could not afford Marshall to get redded, should have been Smith or Hemming maybe, hell let Harmse do it everyone expects him to get a card anyway

Dirk Diggler
08-03-2008, 10:30 PM
So how come they only saw the reaction from Guevara?? My issue is that this sitiation built over time so why penalize the final reaction? How can they only see the punch? Or maybe they missed that too and reacted to the resulting bloody nose....

Any way you look at it, the officiating is shit...

That just the way it is in football. 99% of illegal contact is went uncalled because they players do it out of the referee's vision. Unfortunately when you give the opposing player a bloody nose, you force the referee's hand into calling a foul.

ricciboy
08-03-2008, 10:31 PM
not the right call

Flipityflu
08-03-2008, 10:40 PM
amado admitted to punching the guy, but he was being fouled all the way down the pitch.


who knows where the ref was looking, but considering how long he talked to the linesman, he only caught the end of it.

andyc
08-03-2008, 10:46 PM
That just the way it is in football. 99% of illegal contact is went uncalled because they players do it out of the referee's vision. Unfortunately when you give the opposing player a bloody nose, you force the referee's hand into calling a foul.

Understood. I've been a Leeds fan for a very long time and I understand the way it is. Doesn't mean that I have to like it... My problem is that I believe the ref and linesman missed everything other than the bloody nose. If they didn't see the interaction they should call a red plus penalty...

MG42
08-03-2008, 10:53 PM
I thought when Harmse came in he was going to be a hit man!

Blizzard
08-03-2008, 11:04 PM
So how come they only saw the reaction from Guevara?? My issue is that this sitiation built over time so why penalize the final reaction? How can they only see the punch? Or maybe they missed that too and reacted to the resulting bloody nose....

Any way you look at it, the officiating is shit...

OK, here is a quote as close as possible to what was said by the translator at Amado's post game scrum.

Amado's words were, "the linesman told the ref it started outside the box" with the ref replying "I'm in charge here, it was in the box."

Take from that what you will but it fits with that arrogant twit's reputation that he would totally ignore the advice of the assistant even though he saw only the tail-end of the incident.

After all, he's the full-time ref. The linesman is just a part-timer. :taz:

andyc
08-03-2008, 11:09 PM
That completely fits with what I saw. I'm in the North East side and the linesman looked to be telling the ref that he was wrong while the ref patted the linesman on the back and ignored him...

We need an appeal process as well as repercussion for arrogant twat refs...

BuSaPuNk
08-03-2008, 11:13 PM
Yeah I am sorry but that game all around was officated by a fucking tard. It seemed like every call was completely unjustifed. I'm sorry when did they make this leauge into the NBA?

MEU
08-03-2008, 11:55 PM
i know Velez alrady had a yellow... and wtf he did in order to get a red? I can't even see anything from my section... both times I just saw the ref took out the red card man....

Velez flicked off the ref. He did deserve the yelow for that... of course, the Ref did deserve to get flicked off. I was in the beer garden and Velez thought that the ball went off the Dallas player when it went out at the sideline, and he just held his hand close to his stomach with the "sign" facing the ref. Velez didn't look like he said a single word.

Unfortunately, I think the ref made the right calls both times ( although I did not see the Guevara punch). Our guys need to have more discipline.

Benficachop20
08-04-2008, 02:56 AM
5 secs before velez got the second yellow card, he or someone else got a nice elbow to the face by cooper and the ref completely ignored it, i think velez was giving the ref shit for not calling it.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-04-2008, 07:00 AM
The Dallas prick started giving Guevara shit well outside the box, and I'd have sworn that a foul away from the play inside the box was an indirect free kick as well. It doesn't happen very often, but I have seen indirect free kicks inside the box.

I hate the referees in this league. You can bet the reason he was so tough on TFC today was because he thought he was being a big man, coming in and sending off two of their players in their own building. He must have seen the vid of Robinson shouting down the ref in the Montreal game or something, decided he'd put them in their place. Morons.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-04-2008, 07:04 AM
It doesn't matter if there was previous provocation. A referee can't do anything about something he or his assistants didn't see. However, when he sees someone punch or elbow someone else, he can't just let it slide because it may have been provoked. Obviously no one angrily punches someone else for absolutely no reason.I doubt nobody saw it, it was happening straight down the middle of the pitch. And anyway, if they didn't see it, they're not very good at their job.

Heathen
08-04-2008, 07:17 AM
I don't care how much you've been provoked a retaliatory elbow in your own penalty box is a cuntish act, well done Guevara you made his nose bleed hope it was worth the penalty and costing us at least a tie.
All the things we hoped wouldn't happen with the team are happening now, Guevara losing his discipline, Robert being a lazy fuck, Harmse being shit :(

Soods
08-04-2008, 07:22 AM
Velez was fouled just before he mouthed off to the ref. In fact, the ref saw the foul being committed and even raised his whistle to his mouth....then decided better of it and let it go. I'm sure that's what got Marco so ticked off.

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-04-2008, 07:30 AM
Harmse played maybe four minutes of that game, yeah, he was the reason we lost.:rolleyes: Robert's crosses and delivery from set peices were excellent, blame Cunningham for not even trying to get onto the end of those.

Heathen
08-04-2008, 07:34 AM
Harmse played maybe four minutes of that game, yeah, he was the reason we lost.:rolleyes: Robert's crosses and delivery from set peices were excellent, blame Cunningham for not even trying to get onto the end of those.

The Harmse comment was a joke but Robert is a lazy and pussies out of tackles, and I don't think his delivery was excellent today, ok but not excellent

romburgundy
08-04-2008, 08:20 AM
I'd love to take the whole officating crew out for a beer tonight - maybe not all of them would get home safely....

I think Carver would pay good money to find out where you're going for beers. I also couldnt guarantee your safety judging from how heated things got with Robinson and Brennen over the hand shakes. You want to have beers. Carver would have your ass :)

romburgundy
08-04-2008, 08:39 AM
was the Brennan offside correct?


Unfortunately it was. Probably 3 feet offside

rocker
08-04-2008, 06:52 PM
btw, just watched the replay of the match...

Jason DeVos: "I can't believe that's a yellow card." -- said after Velez did basically nothing to Sala and Sala nearly died on the field.... "Velez has every right to challenge for the ball..." says DeVos.

Dirk Diggler
08-04-2008, 07:48 PM
btw, just watched the replay of the match...

Jason DeVos: "I can't believe that's a yellow card." -- said after Velez did basically nothing to Sala and Sala nearly died on the field.... "Velez has every right to challenge for the ball..." says DeVos.

That was a stupid call, no doubt about it.

However, the penalty was still the correct call and even after watching the replays, I think the ref was right in doing so.

MFBODD
08-04-2008, 07:57 PM
The ref sucked...

It's not the first time that a reaction to a non call is the one that gets noticed...

AL-MO
08-04-2008, 11:23 PM
btw, just watched the replay of the match...

Jason DeVos: "I can't believe that's a yellow card." -- said after Velez did basically nothing to Sala and Sala nearly died on the field.... "Velez has every right to challenge for the ball..." says DeVos.


Yeah the issue was the first yellow card.

BigLou
08-05-2008, 07:04 AM
That referee was a wanker. I believe he accidentally got that call correct. His biography on US soccer website and his track record both go to prove he has confidence when showing red cards.

BigLou
08-05-2008, 07:05 AM
That was a stupid call, no doubt about it.

However, the penalty was still the correct call and even after watching the replays, I think the ref was right in doing so.
My problem with the dissent call is that it wasn't consistent with the leagues standards for making that call.