Match day 26 - TFC @ Portland Wed August 29 10:30pm - Burnng Down the House

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYL_qiDYf0


Have at It People

[Omar]

This is going to be a rough week for the team. Injuries have ravaged our squad once again, and they have to cross the whole continent twice in 1 week. I don't get why MLS decided to schedule a midweek west coast match against Portland then a home game against LAFC on the weekend; this will take a toll on our squad and test their fitness.

We need 3 points as usual, but Portland will be battling for 3 points themselves. They've lost 3 on the trot after a long undefeated streak, and they'll definitely dominate the game on their home ground. We might stand a chance if they don't have Chara in the midfield. He's good at taking control of matches and plays similarly to Bradley (except he's better defensively). We'll definitely be set up to counter against Portland, but we should be ready for Portland to dominate the game and bombard our goal with fast-paced attacks.

I do hope that Vanney starts us with a back 3, but given the lack of numbers in our team, we might start off with the same diamond setup. I honestly don't get why Telfer doesn't get a sniff at left wing back ahead of Morgan. Morgan always appears unfit and slow, and Telfer has played enough at left wing back to not be uncomfortable there. Regardless, we need to be adept at defending the wide areas as that's where we are at our weakest.

[Voodooman]

Id be happy with a point from this one. Its going to be a tough one especially with yet another game this weekend.

You got to figure that Irwin gets the start.

[TheGoodson]

IMO Giovinco and Vasquez won't be playing as it's turf and they have a knock... Preferred if they are rested for Saturday

[ensco]

Statement game here. This is the one. TFC with their backs against it, in an impossible spot.

We win it, and we are back.

[OgtheDim]

I don't mind Jozy & MMMBop* up top & giving Seba the flight off.




*Everytime they speak his last name, this is all I can think of.

[pfk]

TFC are sitting at an 11.8% chance to make it into the playoffs. If they can pull off wins in Portland and vs. LAFC, playoff chances will keep going up (naturally).
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html

[notthesun]

I think we might be in tough here. Giovinco has some kind of nagging muscle injury and Vanney will probably prefer having him available for our home games than risking him in this one. He reportedly trained in the gym today rather than with the squad on the field, and after his 2nd goal yesterday you can clearly see him wincing twice in the celebrations. Plus him being upset about the field after the game, I'm guessing he pulled something.

Mavinga and Auro both didn't train today either, not even in the gym.

Offensively we might be looking at an Altidore-Janson partnership up top.

[OgtheDim]

Portland went on a massive 15 game unbeaten run - then lost the last 4. They will be ticked after the loss at home to the Sounders.

They are as mentally fragile as us. They love to counter but have problems beating teams who sit back in a block. This game could end up looking a lot like the the second half of the Montreal game.

[Cas87]

I am thinking a line-up close to this:

Irwin
VDW -- Hagglund -- Moor -- Morrow
---------------- Bradley --------------
---- Osorio -- Vazquez -- Delgado ---
--------- Janson ---- Altidore --------

[MightyDM]

Chapman not VV (nagging injury). Possibly Morgan not Morrow. Morrow isn't quite right, I wonder if he also has a nagging injury

[OgtheDim]

FWIW, team took a charter to Portland.

[Red CB Toronto]

FWIW, team took a charter to Portland.
That’s so they can get out directly back to Toronto right after the game. Charters just make for easier travel when it’s not a major city with constant flights.

[Defoe]

If Vanney wants to get cute with his minutes from Giovinco and Vazquez then he should take them out early instead of bringing them on late. Let's not have another San Jose repeat.

If they are completely unhealthy that's another thing; but every game here on out is must win. We're not really in a position to "save" there minutes for later; because there may not be an opportunity later

[Red CB Toronto]

If Vanney wants to get cute with his minutes from Giovinco and Vazquez then he should take them out early instead of bringing them on late. Let's not have another San Jose repeat.

If they are completely unhealthy that's another thing; but every game here on out is must win.

Jordan Hamilton did make the trip. So you have Seba, Jozy, Janson and him in the mix up front?

[matteo30]

I was at the Impact game on Sat and they had a great first 30 min knocking the ball around like the TFC of the past two years, at the end of the game they looked burned out. Even with Vasquez and Morrow at 60% they look a lot better I understand Seba resting but this like the Quakes match is not the time to play around, If you want to make the playoffs you play to win the game you only have 9 of them left and they are all mostly must wins. It is frustrating beyond belief to have the travel schedule we have had plus the injuries of everyone on the team. VAR costed us about 9 points? But more so is our medical staff guys coming back for one half or one game only to sit out 3 to 4. I hope Seba can travel and play at least a half an hour but i'm not holding my breath. A lot of Portland's attacks come out wide something we have had trouble defending all year I full expect us to come out and bunker for one point. We had 1 shot that game? We need to attack more in road games and play to win. No more of this tactical sit back and try to hit them on the counter because that is Where we are in trouble when Bradley Zavs and Hagglund are ran at because it opens up space. If that is our game plan we lose 2-0 at least.

[Defoe]

I was at the Impact game on Sat and they had a great first 30 min knocking the ball around like the TFC of the past two years, at the end of the game they looked burned out. Even with Vasquez and Morrow at 60% they look a lot better I understand Seba resting but this like the Quakes match is not the time to play around, If you want to make the playoffs you play to win the game you only have 9 of them left and they are all mostly must wins. It is frustrating beyond belief to have the travel schedule we have had plus the injuries of everyone on the team. VAR costed us about 9 points? But more so is our medical staff guys coming back for one half or one game only to sit out 3 to 4. I hope Seba can travel and play at least a half an hour but i'm not holding my breath. A lot of Portland's attacks come out wide something we have had trouble defending all year I full expect us to come out and bunker for one point. We had 1 shot that game? We need to attack more in road games and play to win. No more of this tactical sit back and try to hit them on the counter because that is Where we are in trouble when Bradley Zavs and Hagglund are ran at because it opens up space. If that is our game plan we lose 2-0 at least.


In short, if Hamilton and Zavaleta are both on the pitch; we are in trouble!

[OgtheDim]

Jon Bakero is in Portland so one of Seba or Altidore stayed home.

[Super]

Jon Bakero is in Portland so one of Seba or Altidore stayed home.

I guess we can afford to lose this one.

[stevep]

I guess we can afford to lose this one.

looks like we are playing for the tie here tonight

from bet 365
opening odds for tfc win were 3.0 or 33% chance of a tfc win, now odds 4.0 or 25% chance of tfc win
expected points based on the odds is 1.02 points for tonights game
looks like we are living to fight another day

from now on all the games there is adequate rest time between games and no really far away games, away games RYRB, DC, and Montreal

[magmadragon]

I don't think we have ever won in Portland.

[rydermike]

I don't think we have ever won in Portland until tonight.

Fixed that for you :)

[Canary10]

Did Giovinco travel?

[OgtheDim]

Well Jozy did

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1034965724559593472

[ensco]

Philly is dominating DCU. Probably good for TFC.

[rydermike]

TFC released lineup on instagram

Irwin
Morrow-Hagglund-Telfer
Chapman-Delgado-Bradley-Fraser
Bakero-Altidore-Janson

Bench: Bono, Morgan, Hernandez, Zavaleta, Akinola, Hamilton, Ricketts

I took a guess at formation based on roster


No Seba, Vasquez, Osorio, VdW, Mavinga

very Champions League MLS match looking squad

[notthesun]

Yeah this is a loss.

[Lennon]

Wow, what a lineup. One natural center back :facepalm:

[Gringo Starr]

A DC win would maybe have been better, have philly drop 3 -keep them in range, United have three tough games on the trot ATL, and the 2 NY clubs so they are likely going to drop points anyway.

regardless we have to take care of business

[rydermike]

Almost looks like we're going with the legendary gitoni/foosball 2-5-3 formation

[Gringo Starr]

Is bradley playing CB?

[Lennon]

A DC win would maybe have been better, have philly drop 3 -keep them in range, United have three tough games on the trot ATL, and the 2 NY clubs so they are likely going to drop points anyway.

regardless we have to take care of business

Not according to that playoff odds site. Philly win seems like the best result. I think realistically we can only catch DC and Montreal now.

[Canary10]

TFC released lineup on instagram

Irwin
Morrow-Hagglund-Telfer
Chapman-Delgado-Bradley-Fraser
Bakero-Altidore-Janson

Bench: Bono, Morgan, Hernandez, Zavaleta, Akinola, Hamilton, Ricketts

I took a guess at formation based on roster


No Seba, Vasquez, Osorio, VdW, Mavinga

very Champions League MLS match looking squad

Guess that lineup answers my question about Giovinco. Glad I’m going to bed before kickoff. Surprise me boys.

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/1034976782498156544

Going for a draw but it some ways that looks like a 3-4-3 or maybe a 4-3-3 with Bradley in the back.

[SirBobSaget]

TFC released lineup on instagram

Irwin
Morrow-Hagglund-Telfer
Chapman-Delgado-Bradley-Fraser
Bakero-Altidore-Janson

Bench: Bono, Morgan, Hernandez, Zavaleta, Akinola, Hamilton, Ricketts

I took a guess at formation based on roster


No Seba, Vasquez, Osorio, VdW, Mavinga

very Champions League MLS match looking squad

No Moor either. Can't even guess at what the lineup/formation will be. Telfer was OK as a wingback, slightly less OK as Fullback, but in the back 3 dont think that happens.

I'm afraid to say it might be a 4 man back of

Telfer - Hagglund - Bradley - Morrow

with diamond midfield
Fraser
Delgado Chapman
Janson

and 2 up top
Bakero Altidore

[Initial B]

Well, the lineup should surprise Portland, at least for the first 20 minutes.

Whether that lineup can win or draw, idk.

[Oldtimer]

This is due to the league's scheduling. If TFC misses the playoffs, the schedule will have played a big part.

[Gringo Starr]

As shaky as Zavs has been this year Bradley might honestly be the better option. A new CB best be the #1 off season priority

[rydermike]

No Moor either. Can't even guess at what the lineup/formation will be. Telfer was OK as a wingback, slightly less OK as Fullback, but in the back 3 dont think that happens.

I'm afraid to say it might be a 4 man back of

Telfer - Hagglund - Bradley - Morrow

with diamond midfield
Fraser
Delgado Chapman
Janson

and 2 up top
Bakero Altidore

Bradley in the back 4 seems more likely. Honestly though very random lineup. Even the substitutes bench is 3 defenders and 3 attackers with no midfielders.

Hasler would've been very useful today, with his versatility

[ag futbol]

This is due to the league's scheduling. If TFC misses the playoffs, the schedule will have played a big part.
Yes I would like to know what genius decided playing a mid week, cross-continent game, between two cities without frequent direct flights was a good idea

[magmadragon]

Fixed that for you :)

I appreciate your optimism but with that lineup, Vanney is either crazy or an absolute genius.

[Red CB Toronto]

If anyone is looking for a stream here you go.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFnRtuaxgIY&feature=youtu.be#fauxfullscree n

[SirBobSaget]

Yes I would like to know what genius decided playing a mid week, cross-continent game, between two cities without frequent direct flights was a good idea

They chartered this one so this flight will be as easygoing as can possibly get.

[iamthelight_]

The good news is that DC lost.

The bad news is that LOL at this line up.

[ag futbol]

They chartered this one so this flight will be as easygoing as can possibly get.
Still, they only get so many of those a season per league rules. They’ve basically forced them to use one with this scheduling.

[rydermike]

I appreciate your optimism but with that lineup, Vanney is either crazy or an absolute genius.

Made that well before I saw this lineup lol

[portu]

Anyone have the odds for Jozy getting injured or red carded tonight?

Edit: very confident that we have a back three of morrow hagglund and telfer tonight

[ag futbol]

This lineup.... yikes

[ensco]

I appreciate your optimism but with that lineup, Vanney is either crazy or an absolute genius.

We are gassed. Vanney must have no choice.

[daner90]

Wow what a line up

[rydermike]

anyone check out what the formation was? I saw a back three of morrow-bradley-hagglund, but didnt see the rest of how it was organized

[jloome]

We are gassed. Vanney must have no choice.

Timing makes sense. Road games are tougher on tired and injured players and Portland is struggling right now.

[stevep]

https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/1034976782498156544

Going for a draw but it some ways that looks like a 3-4-3 or maybe a 4-3-3 with Bradley in the back.

and why was this just reported now??
why not 3 days ago?

i do not bet but if I did how in the world are you supposed to bet on games in this league
an hour before the game it is announced 5 potential starters are not playing

you obviously have to wait until lineups are announced before you place your bet

also, to Portland Timbers fans
sorry but this is a fu game by TFC to MLS by scheduling this game on this day

if you win it doesn't prove anything, you beat us without 6 starters
if you lose you guys aren't very good

[FootBallAZ]

3
5
2

[rydermike]

and why was this just reported now??
why not 3 days ago?

Honestly, I am betting that Wolstat didn't even know and posted that based on the lineup released by TFC since he tweeted 20 minutes after TFC released the lineup

[Couchy81]

I'm going to regret staying up for this aren't I? Ah well there have been worse lineups I've stayed up to watch.

[rydermike]

Wow, so close

[TMAN80]

I'm going to regret staying up for this aren't I? Ah well there have been worse lineups I've stayed up to watch.

Yup, but you're not alone. I'm in for the long haul too, then will work through the day tomorrow in a zombie like state.

[rydermike]

Giovinco at home with a fever according to his instagram, not like he was playing anyways

[portu]

I like Bakero

[rydermike]

So clearly not our first-choice squad, but not quite TFC2.

Let's go TFC 1.5!!!

[Auzzy]

and why was this just reported now??
why not 3 days ago?

i do not bet but if I did how in the world are you supposed to bet on games in this league
an hour before the game it is announced 5 potential starters are not playing

you obviously have to wait until lineups are announced before you place your bet

also, to Portland Timbers fans
sorry but this is a fu game by TFC to MLS by scheduling this game on this day

if you win it doesn't prove anything, you beat us without 6 starters
if you lose you guys aren't very good

They wouldn't have known the lineup 3 days ago. Obviously dealing with some borderline injury issues, so they would have made a late decision who to take on the charter. They might even have a couple of extra players along, and have decided about the full 18 even later.

Plus TFC's only advantage tonight is surprise. I couldn't care less about the impact on betting. And many of the lineup changes were clear in advance.

[Auzzy]

The team looks better tonight than in many other games with a more normal lineup. Best chances on goal; good workrate & pressure all over the park. Still unlikely to get a win out of this; Portland is bound to score at some point. But so far so good.

[ag futbol]

Wtf is Delgado doing? He’s lucky to be still on the field.

[MightyDM]

Bakero is really struggling. The timing and place of his runs is totally off. And his passes. Everyone else doing ok. EDIT: except Marky

[notthesun]

Boyyyy oh boy did Delgado get away with that one. That's his third counter-attack stopping tackle and all three were on Chara... he should probably be off.

[portu]

Delgado you fucking idiot you should be off right now

[rydermike]

Definitely agree with Caldwell, Delgado needs to be off at half because he's guaranteed to get a yellow for any challenge because he should've gotten one there. But who comes on? No midfield on the bench

Bring on Zavs and go with the horrid Hagglund - Zavs combo with Bradley moving to midfield? Or Morgan for a 442?

[Red CB Toronto]

Delgado you fucking idiot you should be off right now

He is dam lucky on that one, that's for sure.

[Auzzy]

Often I'm a Delgado defender, but take him off now.

Vanney you have a discipline problem, not for the first time in the last few weeks.

[portu]

Janson's not playing like a guy worthy of DP status

[MightyDM]

Liking Fraser and Telfer so far.

[jloome]

Bakero is really struggling. The timing and place of his runs is totally off. And his passes. Everyone else doing ok. EDIT: except Marky

He's causing more harm than helping. Plus, he looks frustrated. Put his arms up at Telfer for that shot, but it only went a half-foot wide, and if he'd been going to the back post he would've had a tap in.

[MightyDM]

Definitely agree with Caldwell, Delgado needs to be off at half because he's guaranteed to get a yellow for any challenge because he should've gotten one there. But who comes on? No midfield on the bench

You move over to four at the back and shift Chapman. Or leave it five, bring Morgan on and shift morrow and then Chapman. There are options.

[notthesun]

Janson's not playing like a guy worthy of DP status

He's TAM not DP. And I think he's looking pretty good; we don't have much in the way of attacking support right now.

[jloome]

Janson's not playing like a guy worthy of DP status

He's not a DP, is he? He's on loan to buy, but I doubt he'd be a DP.

His movement is good. I actually rather like him so far.

[MightyDM]

He's causing more harm than helping. Plus, he looks frustrated. Put his arms up at Telfer for that shot, but it only went a half-foot wide, and if he'd been going to the back post he would've had a tap in.
i sort of feel bad for him, but he looks totally lost from a positional perspective.

[ag futbol]

Chapman has to stop playing it so damn safe. Take on the man on occasion, take some risks.

He’s just cycling the ball backwards every time.

[rydermike]

He's not a DP, is he? He's on loan to buy, but I doubt he'd be a DP.

His movement is good. I actually rather like him so far.

If we do buy him he'd be a DP due to the 3.7 million transfer fee

[stevep]

He is dam lucky on that one, that's for sure.

to me its obvious marky's gotta come off at halftime

lets see what the gregfather does

[notthesun]

Not a bad first half considering the circumstances. Obviously lacking some game breakers up top so getting a goal is looking like a real challenge.

Fraser looking real smooth in the middle.

[portu]

He's TAM not DP. And I think he's looking pretty good; we don't have much in the way of attacking support right now.

He's DP if we pick up the buy option. Every game he plays is an audition to unseat Jozy or Seba in my mind.

[tfcfans]

Considering the lineup and the location (and timing) of this game, that was about as good a half as we could have hoped for....and yes, Delgado needs to be taken off now....

[Lennon]

Great half all things considered. Very impressive.

[ag futbol]

He's not a DP, is he? He's on loan to buy, but I doubt he'd be a DP.

His movement is good. I actually rather like him so far.
I like him too. Good work rate, drops back to pick up the ball in midfield, etc.

Not having Osorio or Vasquez or Bradley in the midfield and not even morrow attacking hurts. Fraser is great but he’s the first pass, it’s the second pass to the danger areas that’s missing

[ag futbol]

He's DP if we pick up the buy option. Every game he plays is an audition to unseat Jozy or Seba in my mind.
It’s a posted price on a lark. No way they are getting 3+ million.

[portu]

It’s a posted price on a lark. No way they are getting 3+ million.

It's a contractual option. If they don't get 3.7m USD we don't get Janson.

[magmadragon]

Chapman doing the old Osorio of passing back each time. Kid needs a confidence boost. Bakero and Janson have been moving well. Pretty composed performance overall.

Marky has a horseshoe up his ass. We should be down to 10.

I think the guys need to change up their boots. So many guy losing footing, or not catching up to errant passes/deflections.

[Oldtimer]

Agreed that Delgado should be taken off. That was one of the few times a ref break given in TFC’s favour. Impressed how TFC has held up, but odds are Portland will win.

[ag futbol]

It's a contractual option. If they don't get 3.7m USD we don't get Janson.
It’s a ceiling price. 3.7 million we guarantee we get Janson. We don’t pick up the option we can still negotiate for less. Happens all the time.

[portu]

It’s a ceiling price. 3.7 million we guarantee we get Janson. We don’t pick up the option we can still negotiate for less. Happens all the time.

And it's bad faith bullshit, which contributes to the poor reputations of some clubs and individuals.

[rydermike]

Delgado still on. Well he has a horseshoe, might as well let him take a 40 yard shot. With his luck today, he'll score

[Auzzy]

Valeri has been diving quite a bit tonight.

[MightyDM]

Valeri has been diving quite a bit tonight.

He has likely lost @ step

[Auzzy]

Take a friggin shot Chapman, or at least don't pass into the most congested spot!

[ag futbol]

And it's bad faith bullshit, which contributes to the poor reputations of some clubs and individuals.
We lose nothing by Tigre adding a option purchase price, even if it’s unrealistic. It’s not bad faith, it just has very little value beyond if this was just a loan deal with no fixed option to buy at the end.

This is around in world football. Not a big deal.

[MightyDM]

Don’t think our guys benefit from the turf

[MightyDM]

We have horseshoes tonight!

[rydermike]

Two heart stopping near misses by Portland..

[portu]

We lose nothing by Tigre adding a option purchase price, even if it’s unrealistic. It’s not bad faith, it just has very little value beyond if this was just a loan deal with no fixed option to buy at the end.

This is around in world football. Not a big deal.

I agree we lose nothing by the addition of a buy option. However agreeing such an option and then attempting to achieve a deal for a lesser price than agreed is bad faith and when clubs and agents deal in this way other clubs are aware of it and become wary of those dealing in this manner. Just because it's 'around' doesn't mean it's not a big deal.

[notthesun]

Hagglund 1v1 is nightmare fuel

[MightyDM]

Time to bring Bakero off. 60 is enough. He is not up to speed in this league yet.

[MightyDM]

Damn.

[Fernandinho]

And there it is. FFS

[portu]

Time to bring Bakero off. 60 is enough. He is not up to speed in this eagle yet.
Fraser's the one who looked like he was gassed when we lost Blanco on that goal

[notthesun]

Total system breakdown. Telfer sprinted up way too far to close down, Morrow had to track Telfer's man making the outside run, and the 2nd man on Portland ran through the open space in the backline behind our midfielders.

[Oldtimer]

I think that's probably the deciding goal. Too bad. Good effort by TFC.

[Auzzy]

Fuck it. TFC can't convert on a couple of chances and finally give up a goal

[TFC07]

Garbage line up = garbage game from TFC.

Why bother playing this game? TFC might as well play TFC 2 this game. Giving 3 points away like it's t-shirt giveaway in halftime

Bez and medical staff needs to be fired after this season.

[MightyDM]

Bit of a surprise. Telfer nad Fraser have done very well. Zav is tactical but we need a goal. The forwards aren’t playing great, thought we might see Ricketts.

[pfk]

Morgan and Zavaleta now on. Looks like Bradley may move back in to midfield.

[Auzzy]

Bit of a surprise. Telfer nad Fraser have done very well. Zav is tactical but we need a goal. The forwards aren’t playing great, thought we might see Ricketts.

Subs are strange & too late. Fraser was tiring and contributed to the goal.

[MightyDM]

Garbage line up = garbage game from TFC.

Why bother playing this game? TFC might as well play TFC 2 this game. Giving 3 points away like it's t-shirt giveaway in halftime

Bez and medical staff needs to be fired after this season.

Players are carrying injuries and had and had to be rested. Except for the goal they have looked very organized. In the circumstances they have done ok. Need to do better, but the lineup has held its own.

[MightyDM]

Subs are strange & too late. Fraser was tiring and contributed to the goal.

Fair enough. Late though. Cost us the goal.

[notthesun]

Altidore pull the fucking trigger my dude

[Auzzy]

Fair enough. Late though. Cost us the goal.

I agree. I actually don't see as much use in the subs after the goal against.

[MightyDM]

Glad to see Hamilton. He sniffs goals. And he will get out of the way of the runs of the others.

[notthesun]

Lordy Chapman seriously cannot cross to save his life

[ag futbol]

I agree we lose nothing by the addition of a buy option. However agreeing such an option and then attempting to achieve a deal for a lesser price than agreed is bad faith and when clubs and agents deal in this way other clubs are aware of it and become wary of those dealing in this manner. Just because it's 'around' doesn't mean it's not a big deal.
I think you are misunderstanding why these are put in contracts at times. It is not always a 100%, line-in-the-sand, "this is what we think your worth and price we will do business" type clause.

MLS used to (not sure if this is still the case) require purchase options on all loan deals. This might be a cheap way of satisfying that requirement. Perhaps its in there given Tigre's preference to negotiate once the loan deal is done so they post a price way above market. Maybe it's there as a negotiating tactic to psychologically "anchor" TFC as the buyer to a higher price? Or maybe Tigre value the player enough where we'd have to pay above market to sell and he's really just here for a run-out on loan.

Regardless, these are sophisticated parties and nobody should be snowed by such a simple term. The implications of such a thing are obvious and should be readily understood by all involved.

[Auzzy]

TFC cannot buy a goal. Had some decent chances considering the lineup, need to convert those.

[notthesun]

Well that's on Bradley.

Zero room for error from here on out.

[benito]

Crappers.

[Omar]

Game over, I guess. Whatever spirit and motivation the team had must have drained out now. Oh well, this was always going to be tough, and the whole team set themselves up with the hope of gaining at least a point.

[pfk]

FFS Bradley

[stevep]

not bad effort considering 7 starters are not playing

Bradley is put in risky position every game and he typically gives up the ball at least once per game
this time he gave it up in no mans land, nobody could save him this time

i don't get why everybody thinks this Jansen guy is so good??

i was at bmo on saturday and he did nothing and tonight nothing
and he missed a sitter

[Auzzy]

I really wish Bradley would learn to look around before he receives the ball.

[BakaGaijin]

I've said it many times....Bradley is a turnover machine. Time to move on.

[daner90]

We had 2 games in hand and we just completely wasted 1 of them

[InDa_110]

https://youtu.be/QoQZ0qmf-mk

[InDa_110]

Turn out the lights
The party's over
They say that all
Good things must end
Call it a night
The party's over
And tomorrow starts
The same old thing again
What a crazy crazy party
Never seen so many people
Laughing dancing
Look at you, you're having fun
But look at me
I'm almost cryin'
But that don't keep her love from dyin'
Misery 'cause for me the party's over
Turn out the lights
The party's over
They say that all
Good things must end

[Bobo]

Jozy! Answer your shoe, dude! Can't afford to be let down by DPs when the team is so undermanned. Decent first 45 ultimately means jack. Not much reason to believe this team can win out the remaining games.

[SoccMan2]

Don’t worry the greatest team of all time will win every game now make the playoffs and win the MLS Cup , ya let’s keep resting players for games because they can afford to, moreover , how many games has TFC won with guys like Chapman, Telfer ,Fraser, Hamilton on the field together not many I don’t think, when are these guys ever going to step up they have been giving so many opportunities this season and have done nothing and people complain why they don’t play the Canadians please!

[gracos]

is it wrong to say im extremely disappointed with my club this year??

[notthesun]

If its and buts were candies and nuts... at the end of the day we were just missing too much talent in the starting XI to win.

The only way we have a chance here is if everyone that was out today is available for every single game to close out the year... and given how this season has gone in that department... yeah, not looking good.

[FootBallAZ]

not bad effort considering 7 starters are not playing

Bradley is put in risky position every game and he typically gives up the ball at least once per game
this time he gave it up in no mans land, nobody could save him this time

i don't get why everybody thinks this Jansen guy is so good??

i was at bmo on saturday and he did nothing and tonight nothing
and he missed a sitter



um he assisted on osorio's goal, created a lot of space for gio with his runs.
This game inches from having 2 goals.

Not sure what you saw at BMO

[Omar]

i don't get why everybody thinks this Jansen guy is so good??

i was at bmo on saturday and he did nothing and tonight nothing
and he missed a sitter
To be fair, we were always outnumbered whenever we moved into Portland's final third. We were so slow in bringing the ball forward that Portland were already in their shape, and we never had a spare player push up and stretch Portland.

The midfield did a good job in moving the ball forward, but they and the wing backs were very slow coming up. They were there for the taking, but we weren't committed to attacking them. That's what happens when we're set up to play with fear instead of confidence.

Too often have I seen us be tentative and reserved. Janson (and Bakero), in this regard, have been a breath of fresh air with their positivity. Unfortunately, the rest of the team aren't on the same wavelength. Against Montréal, Janson got an assist and was crucial in creating space for Seba and Oso with his perpetual movement. The rotations between those 3 were beautiful to watch, but along with that, the rest of the team were positive in their approach. Here, though, it was the exact opposite: the front 3 were isolated until they held onto the ball for a good few seconds, and we didn't have the quality out wide to stretch Portland.

There's an air of negativity in the dressing room, and it won't go away until this season ends.

[Omar]

is it wrong to say im extremely disappointed with my club this year??
You're not alone. The message TFC were sending out was wrong from the beginning. I felt that the whole club became somewhat complacent about the MLS as they targeted the CCL this year. Hopefully, this is a harsh lesson for everyone in the club from Manning to Morgan.

um he assisted on osorio's goal, created a lot of space for gio with his runs.
This game inches from having 2 goals.

Not sure what you saw at BMO
I'm glad I'm not alone with that assessment. :)

[SoccMan2]

I’m thinking by the middle of September they should be mathematically eliminated from the playoffs , time to clean house and include the coach and manager and whoever the trainer is, and please say bye bye to Mavinga and Vasquez who should retire before walking might be a problem never mind playing soccer.

[FootBallAZ]

First.ill say the 2nd goal is on vanney, he clearly directed irwin to pass to Bradley in the middle.

Issue with Bradley is either fatigue or decline.
2 give aways off his foot, unsure where team communication was .

Chapman cannot cross, he had a decent game except when near the 18 yard box.

Many easy passes instead of shooting2 the ball.

I also don't get if u bring on Hamilton ,why not have him and Fraser on together as the have some chemistry.

They said that vanney calculated 50 missed training sessions this season.

Not sure what heck is up with the medical staff, mavinga still not healthy.

I assume, auro, mavinga will be back soon.

Gio could actually get worse.
I'm pleased with janson, may be his issue is finishing.

I thought bakero made some nice passes. Fraser did well for a 20 year old

We now have 3 away games to win 1, and obv win out at home

[gracos]

it feels like the club knows we will support them whether or not results show up on the field, in my opinion i knew something was wrong back in march when all of our eggs went in to CCL and lost at finals, we have to stand up and show our frustration but how do we do it

[Derko]

This really sucks. Where is the drive and desire to actually play to your abilities. I can't wait to here the recycled excuses from Vanney. I am tired of them

[reggie]

really people what do you expect...7 starters out.telfer and chapman our wingbacks.stop the whining people jezzz.

[gracos]

really people what do you expect...7 starters out.telfer and chapman our wingbacks.stop the whining people jezzz.

Your missing the big picture this has been going on for 26 games, we havent show our best team throughout the season, im indicating that a proper team knows how to get the best of their team and this year is a write off and am frustrated on what can be great hasnt been

[reggie]

Your missing the big picture this has been going on for 26 games, we havent show our best team throughout the season, im indicating that a proper team knows how to get the best of their team and this year is a write off and am frustrated on what can be great hasnt been
the big picture is they had a 2 week break from last season travelled more than any other team we have not had our best team all year.. injuries injuries injuries,,is the bottom line.its prob too late ..but if ever got our best 11 out there we can beat anyone.

[SirBobSaget]

Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages

[tfcfans]

This was a lost cause before it even started --- we put out a lineup that was missing at least 1/2 of the starters on a few days rest after flying across the country......well at least the travel excuse and short week excuse is pretty much done after Saturday --- no more games outside of the eastern time zone (NY/DC/MTL), and really only the Montreal game being played with less than a weeks rest after this Saturday's game against LA (unless we count Campeones Cup BS)......let's be frank before this season even started I would have put the @Portland game on a short week as a "schedule loss" - and that was before we even knew a lineup without Gio, Oso, Mavinga, VDW, Vasquez weren't playing.....you simply can't win by having 4-6 of your top guys out of your starting lineup for about 80% of the season (the stat of less than 10% of the total MLS minutes played together for Jozy/Gio/Vasquez really sums up the year to me - add in Mavinga being gone for most of the season too and this team had no chance this year).....no other team would be getting results in that situation either.....whether the blame lies in the CCL run, some type of training/fitness issue is another question --- but to consistently not be able to field a starting 11 that isn't missing almost 1/2 of your starters is a lost cause.....

The amount of minutes not played by Mavinga, Vasquez, Jozy, Moor, Auro Jr. and even VDW and Gio (to a lesser extent) is ridiculous...

Prior to tonight:

Jozy - 7 GS and about 520 minutes played (about 20-25% of MLS minutes played)
Mavinga - 6 GS and 500 minutes played (about 20-25% played)
Vasquez - 14 GS and 1100 minutes played (almost 50% played)
Moor - 4 GS and 388 minutes played (about 17% played)
Morrow - 12 GS and 1070 minutes played (less than 50%)
Auro Jr - 12GS and 1060 minutes played (less than 50%)
(VDW - 18 GS and 1700 minutes played - still about 20-25% not played)
(Gio has started 20 (out of 26) and had played 1850 minutes or about 20% minutes not played - still a factor considering how little Jozy has played too.....)

In comparison - Martinez, Almiron and Gressel have all played around 2200 minutes already this season or approx 94% (!!!) of the minutes to be played in MLS this year by AUFC.....Gio and Jozy last year did not even play 2200 minutes for the entire 34 game season (about 68-72% of the available minutes for the regular season in 2017) and Bradley who is the obvious minutes horse of the team played about 88% of the available minutes last year.....this is all pretty extreme in my opinion and a little regression to the mean in terms of AUFC health or our lack thereof goes a long way to explaining this season to me ----- based on the minutes distribution of 2017, the "apparent" depth of last years team to me is astounding when you see how top heavy the top teams are this year in the East in terms of the load their stars play (NYRB actually have a bit more equitable minutes distribution with their top stars playing a bit less and NYCFC was missing Villa for about 1/2 the season this year).....

It is what it is.....but most of this league has 6-9 guys that have to be on the field for their team every week to be competitive, or there is a significant drop off in terms of talent ---- that people thought TFC was somehow 15+ players deep after last year was a bit of a fallacy being borne out this year (as I said earlier, their minutes distribution for 2017 was ridiculous for the results that they achieved) --- I don't honestly believe that any of the MLS goes that deep frankly --- give me the starting 11 for 80-90% of the year and I would bet we are a solid playoff team that contends......

[ag futbol]

the big picture is they had a 2 week break from last season travelled more than any other team we have not had our best team all year.. injuries injuries injuries,,is the bottom line.its prob too late ..but if ever got our best 11 out there we can beat anyone.
I agree we are worn down and not at our best. Leaving tonight side (clearly not our A+ lineup) do you think, once healthy, our players are as good as they were last year? Good enough to win it all again? I am not so sure.

[reggie]

This was a lost cause before it even started --- we put out a lineup that was missing at least 1/2 of the starters on a few days rest after flying across the country......well at least the travel excuse and short week excuse is pretty much done after Saturday --- no more games outside of the eastern time zone (NY/DC/MTL), and really only the Montreal game being played with less than a weeks rest after this Saturday's game against LA (unless we count Campeones Cup BS)......let's be frank before this season even started I would have put the @Portland game on a short week as a "schedule loss" - and that was before we even knew a lineup without Gio, Oso, Mavinga, VDW, Vasquez weren't playing.....you simply can't win by having 4-6 of your top guys out of your starting lineup for about 80% of the season (the stat of less than 10% of the total MLS minutes played together for Jozy/Gio/Vasquez really sums up the year to me - add in Mavinga being gone for most of the season too and this team had no chance this year).....no other team would be getting results in that situation either.....whether the blame lies in the CCL run, some type of training/fitness issue is another question --- but to consistently not be able to field a starting 11 that isn't missing almost 1/2 of your starters is a lost cause.....

The amount of minutes not played by Mavinga, Vasquez, Jozy, Moor, Auro Jr. and even VDW and Gio (to a lesser extent) is ridiculous...

Prior to tonight:

Jozy - 7 GS and about 520 minutes played (about 20-25% of MLS minutes played)
Mavinga - 6 GS and 500 minutes played (about 20-25% played)
Vasquez - 14 GS and 1100 minutes played (almost 50% played)
Moor - 4 GS and 388 minutes played (about 17% played)
Morrow - 12 GS and 1070 minutes played (less than 50%)
Auro Jr - 12GS and 1060 minutes played (less than 50%)
(VDW - 18 GS and 1700 minutes played - still about 20-25% not played)
(Gio has started 20 (out of 26) and had played 1850 minutes or about 20% minutes not played - still a factor considering how little Jozy has played too.....)

In comparison - Martinez, Almiron and Gressel have all played around 2200 minutes already this season or approx 94% (!!!) of the minutes to be played in MLS this year by AUFC.....Gio and Jozy last year did not even play 2200 minutes for the entire 34 game season (about 68-72% of the available minutes for the regular season in 2017) and Bradley who is the obvious minutes horse of the team played about 88% of the available minutes last year.....this is all pretty extreme in my opinion and a little regression to the mean in terms of AUFC health or our lack thereof goes a long way to explaining this season to me ----- based on the minutes distribution of 2017, the "apparent" depth of last years team to me is astounding when you see how top heavy the top teams are this year in the East in terms of the load their stars play (NYRB actually have a bit more equitable minutes distribution with their top stars playing a bit less and NYCFC was missing Villa for about 1/2 the season this year).....

It is what it is.....but most of this league has 6-9 guys that have to be on the field for their team every week to be competitive, or there is a significant drop off in terms of talent ---- that people thought TFC was somehow 15+ players deep after last year was a bit of a fallacy being borne out this year (as I said earlier, their minutes distribution for 2017 was ridiculous for the results that they achieved) --- I don't honestly believe that any of the MLS goes that deep frankly --- give me the starting 11 for 80-90% of the year and I would bet we are a solid playoff team that contends......
i really dont know what people expect with all these injuries.im giving the club a mulligan this season.but they have to look at the training staff and training methods

[tfcfans]

I agree we are worn down and not at our best. Leaving tonight side (clearly not our A+ lineup) do you think, once healthy, our players are as good as they were last year? Good enough to win it all again? I am not so sure.

I think we would at least be a competitive top-4 team in the East with a healthy lineup for 30 games of the year (along with AUFC, NYRB and NYCFC) and after that the playoffs involve some luck as we all know.....take multiple top stars off of other teams for extended periods of time, and I would bet their records would be worse too......

[reggie]

I agree we are worn down and not at our best. Leaving tonight side (clearly not our A+ lineup) do you think, once healthy, our players are as good as they were last year? Good enough to win it all again? I am not so sure.
it may be too late ..but i bet you that not too many teams would want to play our full squad in the playoffs

[tfcfans]

i really dont know what people expect with all these injuries.im giving the club a mulligan this season.but they have to look at the training staff and training methods

I agree - they took a shot at "all-time" glory in CCL and in retrospect they screwed over their MLS season as a result in my opinion -- however, if the price for the memories and glory of 2016 (playoffs), 2017, and the CCL run in 2018, was this crapfest of a 2018 MLS season - I would do it all over again in a heartbeat ---- flags/banners fly forever and that star stays on the jersey forever too ---- you think our rivals in Mtl wouldn't have traded a crap season in 2017 to have beaten us in 2016? Think back to what it was like to be a TFC supporter from 2007-2014 or so --- you wouldn't have taken this 2015-2018 run (with its ups and downs) in a heartbeat?

Put it this way for the Leafs fans in the room ---- if you told me the Leafs get a Cup in 2019 and they don't make the payoffs in 2020 due to lingering injuries from an extended playoff run (or some such reason) -- sign me up for that deal right now.....50+ years is a long time to wait.....ha ha ha......

[notthesun]

Our ideal lineup can beat anyone, I firmly believe that. The problem is many players in our ideal lineup are aging or injury-prone and while I doubt it ever gets this bad again, this isn't a problem that is going to resolve itself.

We need to start acquiring younger key players.

[OgtheDim]

it may be too late ..but i bet you that not too many teams would want to play our full squad in the playoffs

I'm pretty darn sure nobody really wants to play us now. Portland were not happy in the first half.

Last night was about trying to grab a point, work on chemistry, & give some kids some minutes. First thing didn't work in the end as we were never going to keep them off the scoring sheet. Last 2 did.

More a game about next year then this one.

Although I would say Chapman is beginning to get past his usefulness. Guy couldn't make a forward pass.

[Yohan]

Well, I didn't expect much from this game in the first place. And more so after seeing the starting lineup.

-Janson. Turning out to be a good pick up and unlucky to not to get a goal. He already seems to know how to be at the right place at the right time.

-Fraser. If he can work on his defending, he'll be a good passing DM. Unfortunately I think he's lack of speed is going to hamper his career, unless he plays beside an athletic destroyer DM who can compensate for him

-Osorio Giovinco. Definitely missed. Altidore got swarmed and lack of movement from midfield made TFC attack predictable. And the ball moved so slow from the back to the front on attack. Giovinco getting double teamed creates space for others, and Osorio has been very good at taking advantage of that.

-Defence. Oh well. Enough said that injuries is killing the defence and a stud commanding CB is a must for next season.

6 pts out of playoff spot, but it's hard to see TFC making the grounds, if the defence keeps being so shaky due to all the factors.

[Scott]

Well, I didn't expect much from this game in the first place. And more so after seeing the starting lineup.

-Janson. Turning out to be a good pick up and unlucky to not to get a goal. He already seems to know how to be at the right place at the right time.

-Fraser. If he can work on his defending, he'll be a good passing DM. Unfortunately I think he's lack of speed is going to hamper his career, unless he plays beside an athletic destroyer DM who can compensate for him

-Osorio Giovinco. Definitely missed. Altidore got swarmed and lack of movement from midfield made TFC attack predictable. And the ball moved so slow from the back to the front on attack. Giovinco getting double teamed creates space for others, and Osorio has been very good at taking advantage of that.

-Defence. Oh well. Enough said that injuries is killing the defence and a stud commanding CB is a must for next season.

6 pts out of playoff spot, but it's hard to see TFC making the grounds, if the defence keeps being so shaky due to all the factors.


Janson I completely agree. Its too bad we didn't pick him up at the start instead.

Fraser still has a few things to work on but his vision on the pitch is 2nd to none, better than Bradley this season imo.

We're really missing Drew Moor & Beita this year. Such a difference.

Giovinco & Oso I'm okay with having the night off however I wasn't okay with Jozy having the night off.
I'm finished with Jozy. This is the type of game he has to take on by himself and he simply couldn't do it. Lack of service was one thing but he was positionally awful for me.
Would have much rather seen Akinola or Hamilton start up top with Janson.

Delgado has taken a major step back this year. Obv should have been sent off. Him & Jay were lost.
Really hope it isn't too late for us. I'm disappointed to see us come away with nothing to show from that match apart from the promise of Janson.

[ag futbol]

There has to be some way for Fraser to get faster. Nobody can actually be that slow all the time. I think there is a lot of potential there.

[C.Ronaldo]

There has to be some way for Fraser to get faster. Nobody can actually be that slow all the time. I think there is a lot of potential there.

doesn't matter on the right team

William Carvalho looks slow as molasses and everyone picks on him as a weak link but the stats show otherwise.
Liam Fraser just needs a mustache (irwin needs to lose his)

[DinamoTFC]

Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages

Bingo. Something is wrong with the trainers/medical staff.

[dow117]

Well that's on Bradley.

Zero room for error from here on out.

Disagree, - Irwin played the ball direct to player (MB) in front that was being covered with min time. This put Bradley under pressure immediately

[A Stick]

Well they put up a better fight than I thought they could. Liam Fraser is too slow to play at this level. He is a great ball passer but his lack of speed will destine him to CPL. The new Spanish guy we got from Chicago should never see the pitch again. Janson is a decent player.

[jazzy]

Don’t worry the greatest team of all time will win every game now make the playoffs and win the MLS Cup , ya let’s keep resting players for games because they can afford to, moreover , how many games has TFC won with guys like Chapman, Telfer ,Fraser, Hamilton on the field together not many I don’t think, when are these guys ever going to step up they have been giving so many opportunities this season and have done nothing and people complain why they don’t play the Canadians please!

Always right on ......My rant ...I thought when they ask me to buy tickets , mlse was presuming it was for always the top line up ? Not pre-season Drabble like many of these games ? I simply don’t understand as paid pro’s every game no matter the consequences should be important . I blame Vanney but that’ll be irking for many , Yet of course they increase the prices with indifference . Imagine the ‘leafs’ cough saying we’re sitting Mathews and Taverares because we’re playing Arizona . If MLS and it’s bullshit hypocarcy of letting teams continue with crap fields is the problem then , give the fans relief , like Atlantic on 50% cut drinks and food or , at least low $ Canadian championship games ( ridiculous pricing .) To end when Bradley is at the back it’s a joke , we lose at great midfielder , and get another easy to beat defender , to predictable .

[Red4ever]

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

[jazzy]

This ! So it’s on Bez ? I do feel Vanney fails to pick up on the youngsters when they are on a roll though , and play hunches say , he’s very mechanical , and successful at it , but soccer isn’t always pure tactics or everyone here would be coach of the year ;). Mlse asks to pay for those star players but what do we get most games ? ......It’s a problem .

[lobo]

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

WTF ??? I can't even. I dunno. What? Is this real?

[ag futbol]

Disagree, - Irwin played the ball direct to player (MB) in front that was being covered with min time. This put Bradley under pressure immediately
I agree at face value that’s what it looks like. My question would be, does this team (due to some pretty weak defenders on the ball outside of Mavinga) plan to always play Bradley through those situations? Does Bradley himself demand it?

We are consistently playing balls to him that are cringe worthy but we get away with it because he’s outrageously good at picking the ball off the back line. I don’t think people quite comprehend how much of an important function he is serving in doing that and how much his teammates struggle to get the ball into midfield without him.

[Red4ever]

WTF ??? I can't even. I dunno. What? Is this real?

Did exhausting / injuring ourselves for a tournament in February and March damage our ability to compete in the league? Unquestionably.

Is the league the top priority? I think most fans would say that.

Now there will various schools of thought whether that action is worth repeating. To me, as my opinion states, it is not.

Many people may take pleasure in winning the prestigious champions league tournament in Europe. It's non unionized Mexican equivalent (for you Simpsons fans) does not hold the same gravitas.

Treat it like they treat the league cup in england this year. It has ruined our season.

[OgtheDim]

Did exhausting / injuring ourselves for a tournament in February and March damage our ability to compete in the league? Unquestionably.

Is the league the top priority? I think most fans would say that.

...

A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

[Red4ever]

A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

Come on. Fans not supporters.

The majority of people had no idea the champions league existed. They were educated on it because of the run last year.

[lobo]

Come on. Fans not supporters.

The majority of people had no idea the champions league existed. They were educated on it because of the run last year.

Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.

[Initial B]

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images/styles/AnimatedArena/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by SirBobSaget http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images/styles/AnimatedArena/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?p=1879369#post1879369)
Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages




Bingo. Something is wrong with the trainers/medical staff.

Or could it possibly be that they are playing on a field of partially sand, which is leading to the injuries? Did they have this problem before the Argos started timeshring BMO field? Compare the injuries has suffered over the last three years since the Argos moved in to the previous years for both grass and turf.

Perhaps good soccer can't be played on a field that is also in use for pointyball. Does Houston have a similar issue?

[ag futbol]

Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.
He’s right to imply it’s not widely understood by the public at large or more casual fans. That’s just the reality of it.

I’m not the biggest backer. When they fix the scheduling and there are less doormat teams i’ll be more interested.

[Cas87]

The issues this year are not just one specific thing (CCL, Field, Vanney, Physio Staff, injury bug, etc).
It is everything combined.

CCL drained our main starters early in the year (after having next to no off-season for 2 years in a row: 2016-2017 MLS Cup runs, maybe had 4 months "off" total when other teams had 8-10 total depending on playoff finishes and CCL participation).

The lack of an off-season for our players to fully de-compress has taken its toll mentally as well as physically (look at Moor's injury in training, Hagglund's nagging injuries over the last 2 years, Mavinga's issues this year, and so on and so on) -- its not just the staff! It is the travel, multiple surfaces (with varying degrees of quality), more games, temperature/climate changes, and no real recovery time.

[Red4ever]

Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.

They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

[Red4ever]

The issues this year are not just one specific thing (CCL, Field, Vanney, Physio Staff, injury bug, etc).
It is everything combined.

CCL drained our main starters early in the year (after having next to no off-season for 2 years in a row: 2016-2017 MLS Cup runs, maybe had 4 months "off" total when other teams had 8-10 total depending on playoff finishes and CCL participation).

The lack of an off-season for our players to fully de-compress has taken its toll mentally as well as physically (look at Moor's injury in training, Hagglund's nagging injuries over the last 2 years, Mavinga's issues this year, and so on and so on) -- its not just the staff! It is the travel, multiple surfaces (with varying degrees of quality), more games, temperature/climate changes, and no real recovery time.

Spot on.

[ensco]

^Good summary. Also Bez/Manning gambled and lost on the vdW “upgrade” of Beita (it wasn’t one) and the Aketxe thing. Combined that is around $1.5M of wasted TAM. That could have bought a lot of depth.

Of course they gambled and won the year before, with the Vazquez upgrade over Johnson (a home run) and Ricketts. You can't win em all though.

[Cas87]

They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

If MLS, MLSE and TFC themselves begin to really push that (with the new format in particular) there is a chance that you could see TFC versus Real Madrid, River Plate, etc. on a FIFA stage I think fans will care a bit more than the previous times we played (when there was a general sense that MLS teams were going to get killed and nowhere near the final).

[Red4ever]

If MLS, MLSE and TFC themselves begin to really push that (with the new format in particular) there is a chance that you could see TFC versus Real Madrid, River Plate, etc. on a FIFA stage I think fans will care a bit more than the previous times we played (when there was a general sense that MLS teams were going to get killed and nowhere near the final).

Yeah, listen, that's perfectly fair. I'm sure our season would be considered necessary growing pains to get to that point.

But that's only if you value getting to that point.

[DinamoTFC]

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images/styles/AnimatedArena/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by SirBobSaget http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images/styles/AnimatedArena/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?p=1879369#post1879369)
Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages





Or could it possibly be that they are playing on a field of partially sand, which is leading to the injuries? Did they have this problem before the Argos started timeshring BMO field? Compare the injuries has suffered over the last three years since the Argos moved in to the previous years for both grass and turf.

Perhaps good soccer can't be played on a field that is also in use for pointyball. Does Houston have a similar issue?

I dont believe this. Most injuries are hamstring or quad issues, same reoccuring issues. They only play at BMO for half the schedule. Whats their excuse for constantly getting injured on the road or at training faciliets. You're telling me these boys are so physically/muscluarly weak that one game at home causes 5 injuries per game. I dont buy it. It has something to do with training protocols and muscle imbalances.

[DinamoTFC]

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

Champions league is never a pointless tournament. It's a fantastic tournament that pits the best against the best. I was happy at the time and wanted TFC to go all in regardless if it caused us a slow start in league play. The way we have imploded, no one could predict and is not a result of only CCL. Look at the Red Bulls, they played nearly the same amount of games and they are killing the league leading the supporters shield race. They play a high pressing tempo game which you could argue they run and cover more ground than we do. I want us next year to go for it again but perhaps with more balance.

[TFC Tifoso]

^Good summary. Also Bez/Manning gambled and lost on the vdW “upgrade” of Beita (it wasn’t one) and the Aketxe thing. Combined that is around $1.5M of wasted TAM. That could have bought a lot of depth.

Of course they gambled and won the year before, with the Vazquez upgrade over Johnson (a home run) and Ricketts. You can't win em all though.

I don't necessarily think that FO "lost" on the vdW gamble.....I think of it more a "break even".....

Consider that vdW has been moved all along the back line this year filling in for injuries, and that its reasonable to assume that Beita may have actually been another name on our injury report this year.
vdW hasn't been terrible, but fair to say inconsistent, which is logical considering how many different combos we've had on defence this year.
And even with Beita being here and healthy, there was no way we could've moved him in to fill spaces on the back line the way vdW was able to this year.
Beita himself would've done nothing to change the team's record this year.

For me, its unfair to judge vdW based on this season.

I just wish that it was Janson we bought in the offseason rather than Aketxe.....

[Canary10]

I dont believe this. Most injuries are hamstring or quad issues, same reoccuring issues. They only play at BMO for half the schedule. Whats their excuse for constantly getting injured on the road or at training faciliets. You're telling me these boys are so physically/muscluarly weak that one game at home causes 5 injuries per game. I dont buy it. It has something to do with training protocols and muscle imbalances.

The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

[OgtheDim]

VDW has allowed us to change how our CB's play - we now use mobile CB's who roam forward while either Bradley or Delgado move back into the back line. Sure, Hagglund & Zavs & Hernandez can't do this but even old man Moor has been roaming within 10 metres of their 18. This is causing imbalances.

The main reason we miss Beta is injuries to Auro & VDW have had us relying a lot upon a regressing Zavs back there.

The big whiff is Aketxe.

**********

My issue with the training is the team allowed players to not really take time off. Bradley openly stated guys were back in within two weeks of the MLS Cup final.

[Smokecell]

The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

No such thing as "over-prioritizing" the CL, any successful team should set out to win every trophy or why bother playing at all. The issue is having the necessary depth to sustain high quality performances season long. The MLS salary cap makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for teams to retain the quality of depth necessary to be successful. It's been said many times before but beyond spots 1-14ish on an MLS roster it can be very slim pickings and we've seen that here firsthand. FWIW the only thing I question re the coaching staff is how some players seem to have been rushed back into the lineup being nowhere near 100% - case in point VV who I'm not sure I've seen a stretch of 20 consistent minutes all season that he's looked fit. Mavinga as well to a lesser extent. I think this has cost us some points this season for sure.

[MightyDM]

I'm pretty darn sure nobody really wants to play us now. Portland were not happy in the first half.

Last night was about trying to grab a point, work on chemistry, & give some kids some minutes. First thing didn't work in the end as we were never going to keep them off the scoring sheet. Last 2 did.

More a game about next year then this one.

Although I would say Chapman is beginning to get past his usefulness. Guy couldn't make a forward pass.

Harsh on Chapman. Rarely had a runner and he’s normally not a RWB

[MightyDM]

I have reread this entire thread. For me, our team is still by and large the guys who nearly were back to back MLS Cup winners and CCL champions. Even in this injury congestion and poor pitch played season, if we could kick penalties we’d be in the playoffs right now. Last night a below strength 11 played very well and deserved a better result. This group of players is the best I have seen and the most fun since the ‘85 - 93 Jays. I am with them and in my mind our best 14 are still the best in MLS. Yes injuries. Yes travel. Yes Axetke. Yes our pitch. But at our best, we are the best. I am with them, win or lose. And if we lose, look out Mexico. No stopping us.

[paul-collins]

No such thing as "over-prioritizing" the CL, any successful team should set out to win every trophy or why bother playing at all.
This is entirely correct IMO. My only regret is that I didn't prioritize it enough and didn't fly down to Mexico for one of those games.

FWIW the only thing I question re the coaching staff is how some players seem to have been rushed back into the lineup being nowhere near 100% - case in point VV who I'm not sure I've seen a stretch of 20 consistent minutes all season that he's looked fit. Mavinga as well to a lesser extent. I think this has cost us some points this season for sure.
Yes I think there was some panic setting in in June.

Look, it's not (just) that we only had 2 weeks off before starting training for the CCL - we only had 6 weeks off the year before also.

North American teams really get penalized for success, by having much longer seasons. There's a reason you don't see dynasties any more in the NHL, and it ain't parity.

[Oldtimer]

The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

Part of the problem was that TFC drew a cross-continent match in Colorado in the freezing cold, followed by the three best teams in Mexico. No other team had it that hard. Usually you get a Joe Public or equivalent in the first round, you send your scrubs for an easy win, and it's good.

[bhandsome90]

Champions league is never a pointless tournament. It's a fantastic tournament that pits the best against the best. I was happy at the time and wanted TFC to go all in regardless if it caused us a slow start in league play. The way we have imploded, no one could predict and is not a result of only CCL. Look at the Red Bulls, they played nearly the same amount of games and they are killing the league leading the supporters shield race. They play a high pressing tempo game which you could argue they run and cover more ground than we do. I want us next year to go for it again but perhaps with more balance.

The difference is the Red Bulls got almost a 3 month break after being bounced from the playoffs, where as TFC only got a 1 month break. That makes a pretty big difference, especially with the amount of travelling and playing 3 good quality Mexican sides.

[Blindside16]

A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

I agree with this 100%. If we do miss the playoffs, watch for the run at the Quad.

[lobo]

They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

Hey, no serious argument being made in that regard here. CCL is secondary to MLS in vast majority of opinions. But still, 23k for that CCL SF game, on a very cold, unpleasant Tuesday night in early April -- that's not nothing. CCL attendance numbers, especially given weeknight games in winter, were mostly just below our average for league games this year. I think this tournament is a bit more popular with casual fans than you would like it to be.

---
CCL Numbers
Tue Feb 27 v Colorado 23,383 (lowest home attendance YTD)
Wed Mar 7 v Tigres 25,587
Tue Apr 3 v America 23,463
Tue Apr 17 v Guadalajara 29,925 (highest home attendance YTD)

Average home attendance; League: 26,357; All: 26,016
---

Mostly, what provoked me to reply was your hyperbole about tanking a "stupid pointless" competition with intentional own goals.

TFC has had a challenging season in league play, after a very, very good run in our continental tourney. As already mentioned, other teams in the same competition were not similarly affected, just us (as if that was our only problem). Short off-seasons and all, management has to plan for it. Fitness, discipline, and late-game defending were the big problems this year, my opinion. Then again, bad luck and shit happens.

The club takes Champions League seriously, lots of us do. You don't have to take it seriously, but there's certainly no need to misrepresent or diminish it as ruining, mexican, unpopular. If we're talking about the opinion of fans (exclusive of supporters), I'd prefer to see messages from supporters raising the profile of the CCL. And maybe someday our continental competition can achieve some of that gravitas you mentioned earlier.



I have reread this entire thread. For me, our team is still by and large the guys who nearly were back to back MLS Cup winners and CCL champions. Even in this injury congestion and poor pitch played season, if we could kick penalties we’d be in the playoffs right now. Last night a below strength 11 played very well and deserved a better result. This group of players is the best I have seen and the most fun since the ‘85 - 93 Jays. I am with them and in my mind our best 14 are still the best in MLS. Yes injuries. Yes travel. Yes Axetke. Yes our pitch. But at our best, we are the best. I am with them, win or lose. And if we lose, look out Mexico. No stopping us.

Oh, if we could kick penalties, lol .... we might also have been 2x MLS Cup champs and perhaps CCL Champs right now. I hope we get that CCL trophy next year.

:scarf::drum::scarf: