Match Day 23- NYC @ TFC Sunday August 12 4pm Perfect for a Rustic, Gamey Sunday Roast

[OgtheDim]

https://i.imgur.com/Bx9psowl.png


https://www.greatbritishchefs.com/how-to-cook/how-to-roast-a-whole-pigeon

**************

Have at It People

[Voodooman]

Must win game here! I feel like this game is going to have all the intensity!

[Oldtimer]

A big six pointer against an Eastern rival.

[pfk]

I feel we can take this one and get three points.

I wonder if the new signings will make an appearance soon.

[paul-collins]

Still nothing on Mavinga's discipline?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/discipline

[Oldtimer]

Still nothing on Mavinga's discipline?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/discipline

Likely means no further punishment than missing one game.

[DinamoTFC]

We really need 3 points this game. Especially heading into the next game after that vs mtl.

[Detroit_TFC]

Still nothing on Mavinga's discipline?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/discipline

The league will wait until 12 hours before the match to announce the suspension, because they are busy people.

[pfk]

We really need 3 points this game. Especially heading into the next game after that vs mtl.

We have a game at San Jose the week before (the Mtl game is during the Ex). The Quakes have the worst record in the MLS currently, so I hope it will be nine points straight against NYCFC, the Quakes, and the Limpact (and a Cdn Championship)!

[molenshtain]

Still nothing on Mavinga's discipline?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/discipline

There have been other players who were fined/suspended by disco retroactively this week. I think it means their not gonna do anything about what happened at the end of the game.

Probably because it would mean they'd have to suspend Almiron for a fair bit of time and MLS doesn't want to do that obviously.

[Gringo Starr]

NYC are not a good road team, we should get three points. The Revs and the Union face each other which is good since we need to catch them both,

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Huge game this one...
I feel if we don't get here the 3 points, we have 90% chance to miss the playoffs.

[barongan]

3 point the price of deathhttp://gshort.click/isna/1/o.png

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1027959509665366017

With Mavinga out, Moor's return could be huge.

[Defoe]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1027959509665366017

With Mavinga out, Moor's return could be huge.

I don't even want to no our record when Mavinga/Moor don't play.

41 goals against this season vs 37 goals against all of last year is the story of our season.

[notthesun]

Kloke tweeted again that Vanney later said Moor has been in training all week, only this is the first time media has been present. So sounds like his return is indeed lining up.

[paul-collins]

Likely means no further punishment than missing one game.
Both Molinaro and Kloke have tweeted that Chris will miss this weekend and the SJ game.

[Bobo]

Auro's injury is the worst thing that could have happened after Mavinga's red. VDV will have to play RB and *shudders* Hagglund and Zavaleta will more than likely play alongside each other again. Unless Moor starts, which would be madness. I'd rather see Hernandez play with Hagglund, in all honesty.

Shame Janson couldn't get here early enough. Really going to need a strong 70 minutes from Vazquez.

[Gringo Starr]

The Mavinga suspension is on the MLS website, One additional game and an undisclosed fine for not leaving the field in a timely manner. ATL gets nothing

[James17930]

The Mavinga suspension is on the MLS website, One additional game and an undisclosed fine for not leaving the field in a timely manner. ATL gets nothing

I can see Mavinga getting an additional game, but the fact Almiron got nothing is utter bullshit.

[Defoe]

Auro's injury is the worst thing that could have happened after Mavinga's red. VDV will have to play RB and *shudders* Hagglund and Zavaleta will more than likely play alongside each other again. Unless Moor starts, which would be madness. I'd rather see Hernandez play with Hagglund, in all honesty.

Shame Janson couldn't get here early enough. Really going to need a strong 70 minutes from Vazquez.

I didn't read that Janson won't be available; but i'll take your word for it.

Without Janson, Mavinga, Auro we still have enough to win. But we really need 60-70 from Vazquez or we are looking at a potential draw...

Giovinco-Altidore
Osorio-Vazquez-Delgado
Bradley
Morrow-Hagglund-Moor-VDW
Bono

[pfk]

I can see Mavinga getting an additional game, but the fact Almiron got nothing is utter bullshit.

I am certain that the MLS doing everything in their power to help Atlanta win the title. Complete BS call by MLS.

[PawTar711]

We need to win. And can. Period.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

No win, no playoffs, and we can stick a fork in this whole fucked up season.

[Red CB Toronto]

I didn't read that Janson won't be available; but i'll take your word for it.

Without Janson, Mavinga, Auro we still have enough to win. But we really need 60-70 from Vazquez or we are looking at a potential draw...

Giovinco-Altidore
Osorio-Vazquez-Delgado
Bradley
Morrow-Hagglund-Moor-VDW
Bono

Janson has not even arrived in Toronto yet as of yesterday according to a few tweets I saw including one from John.

[Redpunkfiddle]

No win, no playoffs, and we can stick a fork in this whole fucked up season.

Ehhh.... More like no win, more difficult to get in playoffs.

If we aren't winning, we likely aren't playing well and that causes questions and emotions for sure. The margins are thin.

Mavinga and Moor are out of this one.

But I'll save my fork and season over thread for real do or die times.

[TFC07]

Not do or die game, but a win here will be massive and send a message that TFC is back.

[FootBallAZ]

Moor is on bench.
Zavleta and hagglund. Gonna look ugly

[Defoe]

Moor is on bench.
Zavleta and hagglund. Gonna look ugly

Yikes. Not to be "reactionary" but these 2 have shown zero signs of being MLS capable center backs.

[Auzzy]

Can anybody recommend a good stream? My DAZN doesn't work in Europe.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

All my streams are horrible quality, someone does have decent ones?

[Yohan]

http://www.sportingvideo3.com/20180811/vv5b6f44074f9f08.34420788-2011577.html

[TFC07]

Jozy being a dumbass

[notthesun]

It should've been a foul on Callens, he shoved Altidore without trying to play the ball. But what a fucking idiotic move by Altidore. This could literally end our season.

[Detroit_TFC]

Goddammit.

[Yohan]

well. that was dumb by Jozy

[Inklink]

Altidore you moron. What the hell are you doing.

[Detroit_TFC]

This season is killing me.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Really Jozy?
Go fuck yourself. The club should give him an extra fine of at least $100,000.
We have some fucking idiots on our team, who react like some 16 year olds.

[daner90]

Annnnnnd we are fucked

[Inklink]

Really Jozy?
Go fuck youself. The club should give him an extra fine of at least $100,000.
We have some fucking idiots on our team, who react like some 16 year olds.

For sure. I would suspend him an extra game too but they need his scoring.. Can't believe how selfish that was.

[JavierMartini]

That took what? 3 minutes. Why couldn't we score a man up like that. 😂😂

[notthesun]

This season is killing me.

Fittingly enough Jozy just killed our season.

[Inklink]

lmfao Bradley gets paid $6 mil and can't shoot the ball.

[Defoe]

I blocked off my Sunday afternoon for this game. Altidore was wrong and cost us the game; but the miss-call was even worse. MLS is just such a joke sometimes. Literally ruined the whole game.

[Auzzy]

When you have repeated discipline & motivation problems with multiple players, at what point is it more than a problem of the individual players?

Also on the goal against, what was Bradley doing other than staring at the ball going around?

[Defoe]

When you have repeated discipline & motivation problems with multiple players, at what point is it more than a problem of the individual players?

Also on the goal against, what was Bradley doing other than staring at the ball going around?

If management decided to blow it up and sell of Vazquez, Bradley, Altidore, Giovinco, Van Der Weil and make money on them and go full rebuild with Janson, Osorio, Auro, Akinolo etc and re-invest in young south americans; I would support a couple years of pain

[PizzaEatingYeti]

For sure. I would suspend him an extra game too but they need his scoring.. Can't believe how selfish that was.

For doing something like this, in a point in a season when every game is so vital, any serious Euro team would suspend even his best star player maybe even 2-3 games besides a very hefty extra fine. There a message sent in these situation.
But of course TFC won't do this... This in MLS, and everything must be done differently than what works in the whole wide word where football is by far the no. 1 sport.

[notthesun]

Jesus Zavaleta and Hagglund are just clueless leading the line. Get Moor in a halftime.

[MightyDM]

We have had discipline issues for a while. This is something it’s fair to criticize Vanney about. Mavinga was surprising. This is shocking. Shocking. Our season is hanging by a thread.

[ag futbol]

That took what? 3 minutes. Why couldn't we score a man up like that. 😂😂
The irony. And they are all over us, the way a team up a man should be.

[MightyDM]

Also, Vanney really doesn’t like Hamilton. All he does is score - when he gets a chance to play. I don’t understand it.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

If management decided to blow it up and sell of Vazquez, Bradley, Altidore, Giovinco, Van Der Weil and make money on them and go full rebuild with Janson, Osorio, Auro, Akinolo etc; I would support it.

Me too, without hesitation.
Too many players in this team are too full of themselves, after the last season they think they are world beaters.
They are not, they never were, they never will be.

[Inklink]

Sebaaaaaaaaa

[daner90]

Super Seba!

[stevielarson]

For doing something like this, in a point in a season when every game is so vital, any serious Euro team would suspend even his best star player maybe even 2-3 games besides a very hefty extra fine. There a message sent in these situation.
But of course TFC won't do this... This in MLS, and everything must be done differently than what works in the whole wide word where football is by far the no. 1 sport.

Please cite an example of a European club doing this with a top 3 player - genuinely curious.

[ag futbol]

Come on guys! Let’s battle this out!

[MightyDM]

Don’t even think it. Never. These guys are the best team in the leagues history. It’s absurd to suggest gutting the team. Look what VV and Gio just created, out of nothing

[Auzzy]

Great shot by Seba! And note that Delgado forced the turnover that started the play.

[MightyDM]

And on their goal, Bradley, like everyone else, saw the guy shooting. No-one could anticipate such a terrible shot falling right to Villas feet.

[Couchy81]

Gutting the team is the worst move possible lol

[ag futbol]

Bono really should have that. What is going on with this team?

[Inklink]

So Osorio picks up a stupid booking.

Bono has to have that.

[MightyDM]

Delgado screwed up there

[notthesun]

Delgado and Bono looked awful there. What an avoidable goal, sigh...

[ag futbol]

So Osorio picks up a stupid booking.

Bono has to have that.
That was a pretty comically quick yellow from the ref. I don’t know what he said but that sort of mannerism suggests to me an official who is not experienced in handling pro players

[Yohan]

what the heck was Delgado trying to do? absolute fail. And Bono too.

[daner90]

This game is a roller coaster of emotions and its not even half!

[burlington Red]

that's inexcusable from bono at this level

[tfcfans]

Ridiculous - cards and craziness everywhere.....

[Inklink]

Stupid by Bradley but not a yellow

[MightyDM]

If we stop giving away cheap goals, this game is there to be won.

[Inklink]

Giovinco whining to the 4th official while TFC is launching a counter attack??

[Inklink]

Why is VDW heading that back across his own goal?

[ag futbol]

Giovinco whining to the 4th official while TFC is launching a counter attack??

Giovinco was tackled while he was running up the field by a defender to stop a counter attack and this novice officiating group did nothing about it

[Inklink]

Giovinco was tackled while he was running up the field by a defender to stop a break and this novice officiating group did nothing about it

Ah OK that would make sense. Luke said he was talking to the 4th official.

[notthesun]

We should be tied, the second goal should've been stopped twice. So annoying.

It's such a struggle for us to get the ball in their half with controlled possession. Thanks Jozy.

[MightyDM]

He was rugby tackled. The A/R and fourth official must have clearly seen it

[SirBobSaget]

Thanks Jozy not only killed this game but now your teammates (most earning a fraction of your salary) are having to bust their added to make up for the lost man. So they can all be more exhausted for the final in 3 days

[Auzzy]

Man f this crap. On the 2nd goal against, not only Delgado & Bono screwed up. Two TFC defenders (probably Zavaleta and vdW) turned away from the shot and stuck their feet out backwards in very weak attempts at blocking the shot. Seriously? Square up, man up, and don't make it that easy for them!

And just now two TFC players let Villa take a totally open & uncontested shot on goal. Really no reason Villa didn't score a third goal for NY.

[notthesun]

We might as well go for it in the 2nd half. High press to force more turnovers. I don't know exactly what it should look like but Vanney should make some aggressive changes. A tie does barely anything for us.

[ag futbol]

Some of these highlights from hagglund and zavs at halftime... my god.

Start turning over rocks for that new CB already.

[portu]

Lmfao we are a joke

[Oldtimer]

Make Jozy miss an additional game to discipline him? Sell off our team? Some of the worst ideas I've seen on this board, and I've seen doozers.

Make Jozy apologize to each and every one of his colleagues is more like appropriate discipline.

[Oldtimer]

Put on Drew and Tos, take off two defenders to play a back three. My two cents.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

If we go down 1-3, please do not force the play at all, no matter if we end 1-6 even, but at least the team won't be exhausted for the Voyageurs Cup final.
I almost wish this, I mean between the game ending like it is now, in 1-2, or getting down very soon to 1-3, and then following this scenario, is way better for TFC.

[MightyDM]

Put on Drew and Tos, take off two defenders to play a back three. My two cents.

You might see this around 75th minute

[notthesun]

You have to respect that Osorio just keeps bringing it every game despite how crazy this season has been.

[Defoe]

Gutting the team is the worst move possible lol

It doesn't have to be a full out rebuild because we have a lot of good players around our DP'S. I liked the New York Red Bulls re-tool where they shipped out some older players and brought in Kaku and Rzatkowski. If this team sold Bradley and Altidore and brought in some younger players I imagine the fan base would be 50/50 spilt on it

[MightyDM]

Thats a red!

[Auzzy]

Does anybody know why Bradley takes long free kicks? After a couple of years, I can't remember a single assist off a free kick. At least there haven't been many.

[Couchy81]

It doesn't have to be a full out rebuild because we have a lot of good players around our DP'S. I liked the New York Red Bulls re-tool where they shipped out some older players and brought in Kaku and Rzatkowski. If this team sold Bradley and Altidore and brought in some younger players I imagine the fan base would be 50/50 spilt on it

The only re-tooling we need is our back line. Deal zavaletta and vdw and get some solid defenders.

In hindsight Beitashour was our biggest loss and we downgraded in his position.

[MightyDM]

Not that it needs to be said, but this is why you don’t gut this team. They are resilient. And good.

[ag futbol]

Wtf is zavaletta thinking?

[MightyDM]

Bradley is a monster. Keeping us mentally in the game with his work rate and fitness.

[Auzzy]

Bradley is a monster. Keeping is mentallyvin the game with his work rate and fitness.

Sorry he also f'd up majorly on a few recent plays.

[MightyDM]

Moor!

[notthesun]

Wtf is zavaletta thinking?

To be honest sometimes I wish guys would be a little more aware of their teammate's limitations. Bono has to know that playing short to Zavaleta with 3 guys surrounding him is a recipe for disaster.

[Auzzy]

Great Morrow injured for a change. WTF is up with the injuries on this team?

[MightyDM]

The only re-tooling we need is our back line. Deal zavaletta and vdw and get some solid defenders.

In hindsight Beitashour was our biggest loss and we downgraded in his position.

Justin Morrow hasn’t been himself either

[Vendetta]

Ashturd Morgan

[Inklink]

Horrendous header by Morgan.

[ag futbol]

To be honest sometimes I wish guys would be a little more aware of their teammate's limitations. Bono has to know that playing short to Zavaleta with 3 guys surrounding him is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah that’s a fair point but on that play Zavaleta didn’t appear to know his own either.

Too bad about that goal. Morgan looks a tad naive to say the least.

[burlington Red]

great finish. terrible header from Morgan but still a lot to do.

[notthesun]

Morgan has always been pretty inept in the air, but that was just awful

[ag futbol]

great finish. terrible header from Morgan but still a lot to do.
That’s the problem when you give them the easy ones: they’re a good enough team to score great goals too.

[Derko]

Sounds like a disaster of a game. Good thing I am away for the weekend and not watching my blood pressure can't handle it

[Vendetta]

Sounds like a disaster of a game. Good thing I am away for the weekend and not watching my blood pressure can't handle it
Totally was

[Yohan]

another game TFC loses by shooting themselves in the foot. multiple times.

it all started with Mavinga being an idiot last game. continued with Jozy also being an idiot this game. and defence just sucking yet again

[notthesun]

Gifted them a man advantage and two goals. We completely threw this away. Yuck.

[Oldtimer]

Not surprising playing down a man. Next match.

[Kamp Berg]

Only one thing to say: shame on Jozy, he needs to grow up and control his anger. This has happened way too many times.

[OgtheDim]

We held our own for 80 minutes when down a man. But those goals were avoidable. Delgado is a shadow of the player we saw in April.

No surprise teams are manhandling & baiting our hotheads. Jozy et al fall for it every time.

These guys badly need a win on Wednesday to release the tension. And the team's psych department needs an upgrade.

[oranje boven]

I actually checked to see if Jozy's girlfriend was playing in Toronto cause I sure couldn't understand how a team grasping for a playoff spot could have two key players in two straight games take such selfish undisciplined fouls to get red-carded? Top it off we have two get yellows for dissent. I can slightly see Bradley chirping as the Captain but Oso needs to zip it.
Also starting to think Irwin should be the #1.

[GerMc]

Hey, I hear a lot of negativity in this thread. Yes Jozy lost his temper and we made some avoidable defensive errors. But we also tied the best team in the league last week and almost tied one of the other best teams in the league this week, while playing down a man for 80 minutes. We have come a long way from losing to the worst teams in the league like we were doing for most of the season so far. This is a different team than it was even a few weeks ago. Yes, it will be a stretch to make the playoffs, but if we keep playing like this against the teams that aren’t Atlanta and NYCFC, then we can build up a head of steam that will make for a hot hand going into the playoffs, even if we scrape in by the skin of our teeth. Which I think we will. You can quote me on that :-)

[pfk]

That was painful to witness. I just rewatched the Jozy red and he deserved the card for a stupid play. He’s has to keep it in check.

The only brightside was the guys shows resilience and nearly pulled off a tie. If Jozy wasn’t such an idiot, we would have won that game.

Lastly, the reffing today was some of the worst I have witnessed. It’s Toledo and Penso level shitty reffing.

[burlington Red]

Hey, I hear a lot of negativity in this thread. Yes Jozy lost his temper and we made some avoidable defensive errors. But we also tied the best team in the league last week and almost tied one of the other best teams in the league this week, while playing down a man for 80 minutes. We have come a long way from losing to the worst teams in the league like we were doing for most of the season so far. This is a different team than it was even a few weeks ago. Yes, it will be a stretch to make the playoffs, but if we keep playing like this against the teams that aren’t Atlanta and NYCFC, then we can build up a head of steam that will make for a hot hand going into the playoffs, even if we scrape in by the skin of our teeth. Which I think we will. You can quote me on that :-)

we lost to a lot of teams back in the day. we now have one of if not the highest wage bill in the league. so expectancy is obviously higher.

[Auzzy]

We held our own for 80 minutes when down a man. But those goals were avoidable. Delgado is a shadow of the player we saw in April.

No surprise teams are manhandling & baiting our hotheads. Jozy et al fall for it every time.

These guys badly need a win on Wednesday to release the tension. And the team's psych department needs an upgrade.

The ref wasn't great today. However some of the calls Bradley was freaking about & debating were obviously the correct calls. He doesn't always set a good example for the team.

[zorsofstesab]

Jesus Zavaleta and Hagglund are just clueless leading the line. Get Moor in a halftime.

I have preached the same since they were both inserted as starting centre backs. I am mad, angry, frustrated and ultimately disappointed that this team has relied so heavily on these 2 as starters in the most critical part of the field. They are just NOT good enough together on at the same time, period!!

I know we have had injuries but lord help this team the rest of the year....

[stevep]

notes from the game:

ten minutes in and a potentially great game is ruined by a red card, what a f****** season this is
these scrubs keep taunting our starts and getting our stars red cards. isn't there any rule re instigation
alex bono is either alexander the great or bono the clown, today he was bono the clown
when morgan came on I said my son, morgan is really like half a man, so we are down to 8.5 players and sure enough he blows it, from now he will be referred to as ashturd morgan

great comeback twice today, great character.

[stevep]

Ashturd Morgan

I like that one!

[OgtheDim]

Dissing Ashtone Morgan. Fine.

Calling him that is beyond the pale.

[Davenport]

Altidore needs fining. He needs to pay back some of the stupid money he gets for playing football. Professional ?

Delgado jumped out of a tackle. Unforgivable in that area. Drop him.

Morgan. Pathetic defender.

Besides that, great character, completely let down by those 3 clowns.

[Gringo Starr]

That was an entirely winnable game against one of the leagues big pretenders. Even though mistakes were made I appreciate greatly the effort the ten guys on the field put in. Jozy has done a lot for this team but that was pure selfish stupidity at a most unfortunate time, not just for the playoff chances but also for the extra running the rest of the guys had to put in ahead of Wednesdays final. Truly Beckham/Simeone level selfish stupidity.

Guys on this team have to be more disciplined but it's about time someone in the management of this team takes a fine and rants at the shit quality of officiating and uneven discipline handed out by MLS.

[TFC1986]

Morgan was just terrible today

[stevep]

Morgan was just terrible today

he was and he is in general
if mavinga does not get the red card, he most likely does not see the field as telfer goes in for morrow

also, this from mls soccer message board:
Congrats, Marky....three assists in one game! But OOPSIE!, two were for the opponents! Never mind, you'll get to start again, and again, and again!
congrats Marky three assists in one game, but OOPSIE two were for the opponents but don't worry you'll get to start again, and again and again
ts in one game! But OOPSIE!, two were for the opponents! Never mind, you'll get to start again, and again, and again!
ongrats, Marky....three assists in one game! But OOPSIE!, two were for the opponents! Never mind, you'll get to start again, and again, and again!
ongrats, Marky....three assists in one game! But OOPSIE!, two were for the opponents! Never mind, you'll get to start again, and again, and again!

[PizzaEatingYeti]

we lost to a lot of teams back in the day. we now have one of if not the highest wage bill in the league. so expectancy is obviously higher.

I can't believe people still don't know that FTC has the highest wage bill by far in the MLS.
It was the same last year and the year before that.
Considering just this aspect, anything else than at least making the MLS Cup final is a failure.

And in many years of it's existence, before these last 3 seasons, when not even making the playoffs, TFC always had one of the highest MLS payrolls.
I am firmly convinced that comparing payroll to performance over all the MLS teams' history, TFC is the champion of underperforming by far!
Please give me solid counter-arguments if I am wrong.

[MightyDM]

Vanney was quite critical of VdW and Marky post game, without naming them. There was a lack of concentration when they gave up the ball on the last goal. Or an arrogance, perhaps. Morgan gets the blame from us - and it was a poor header - but their play on the sidelines was very poor. Just put the laces through it, lads.

[MightyDM]

Gio and Bradley worked extremely hard. Showed their value. Oso created again. Great effort by the team from 0-1 to the last goal. Very impressive. But: Haggs and Zavaletta look lost, they have both deteriorated. Maybe regular playing time will get them back to where they once were. Morrowdoesn’t look himself and VdW does not show much at all. Better at CB than RB, for me.

[paul-collins]

I think I have to agree with Vanney on this, Marky's giveaway on the sideline directlyresulted in that third goal. vdW wasn't very interesting this game, but then again, down a man the angles and space are all different. The number of times a no-look pass went to a space where the 10th player would have been was quite high.

Vazquez put in a decent shift as well as Oso/Gio/Bradley.

I'm ready to see less of both Delgado and Zavaleta.

[benito]

Delgado hasn't been the same since he missed the sitter goal in the CONCACAF Championship final. He looks like a much different player compared to last year.

[69Chevy396]

Delgado hasn't been the same since he missed the sitter goal in the CONCACAF Championship final. He looks like a much different player compared to last year.

He didnt play much last year. Always believed he was overrated, and nothing more than an avg MLS mid late game sub.

TFC had a great run. Two finals in a row. Should have won both. However, the teams that were close, and biting hard, have passed us, and in my opinion, this was our fate this season regardless of the champions league and multiple injuries to key players. Yesterday was a turning point for me. New York did not play well, but man for man, they matched or bettered our guys. Last season, that first and third goal would not have happened.

For 2019 TFC needs to keep Mavinga, Osorio, Seba, and Bradley. Everybody else is expendable

[stevep]

[QUOTE=69Chevy396;1877766]He didnt play much last year. Always believed he was overrated, and nothing more than an avg MLS mid late game sub.

when he comes on as a mid late game sub the other team always scores. pretty much everytime time

[Still Kicking]

Having slept on it, I feel that Altidore lost his cool because Vanney kept his and as a leader, your manager needs to lose his cool for tactical reasons. Yesterday, and I know a lot of hindsight is kicking in here, was the perfect time for the manager to draw down the fiery heavens. Go running up and down, kick every water bottle in sight. STAND UP for his players, who are clearly being kicked as they try to get back to being the best team in this league.
Weekend before in Atlanta, Martinez moves the ball to his right (we say stretching Bono puts a hand to the ball) ref says Bono got no ball = penalty Atlanta.
Yesterday, just minutes before the Altidore red, just outside the penalty area, Altidore on the attack, moves the ball to his right, beyond NYCFC defender, defender takes out Altidore, play on says the ref.
Altidore is thinking if I were Martinez, I get that call. It was blatant. Altidore is thinking if I wore an Atlanta United jersey, I GET THAT CALL.
Sure Altidore should have kept his cool, but I maintain that VANNEY should have gone beserk to distract, to get thrown out of the stadium. Defending a title is tougher.
I am not a Vanney basher.
I think he has made great decisions and deserves credit galore for the strengths of his team. But Mavinga red one week, Altidore red the next, I don't go %100 on the player need for calm in the face of provocation. An element yes, but the manager needs to breathe some fire and make a statement during the game. TFC needs more than tactics and player selection decisions, they need to demand respect.

[stevep]

Having slept on it, I feel that Altidore lost his cool because Vanney kept his and as a leader, your manager needs to lose his cool for tactical reasons. Yesterday, and I know a lot of hindsight is kicking in here, was the perfect time for the manager to draw down the fiery heavens. Go running up and down, kick every water bottle in sight. STAND UP for his players, who are clearly being kicked as they try to get back to being the best team in this league.
Weekend before in Atlanta, Martinez moves the ball to his right (we say stretching Bono puts a hand to the ball) ref says Bono got no ball = penalty Atlanta.
Yesterday, just minutes before the Altidore red, just outside the penalty area, Altidore on the attack, moves the ball to his right, beyond NYCFC defender, defender takes out Altidore, play on says the ref.
Altidore is thinking if I were Martinez, I get that call. It was blatant. Altidore is thinking if I wore an Atlanta United jersey, I GET THAT CALL.
Sure Altidore should have kept his cool, but I maintain that VANNEY should have gone beserk to distract, to get thrown out of the stadium. Defending a title is tougher.
I am not a Vanney basher.
I think he has made great decisions and deserves credit galore for the strengths of his team. But Mavinga red one week, Altidore red the next, I don't go %100 on the player need for calm in the face of provocation. An element yes, but the manager needs to breathe some fire and make a statement during the game. TFC needs more than tactics and player selection decisions, they need to demand respect.

at the game yesterday. every time that asshole LB for NYFC touched the ball the whole stadium booed. this went on for the whole game.
the real fans know the score, they know what went down. he caused a foul before altidore kicked him and then he embellished. he was perfectly fine a few minutes later

it's a great strategy by the opponent taunt our star players, piss them off, get them kicked out of the game
and of course the talking heads on tv must agree with the ref and take the mls corporate line .
and all the stupid morons on message boards agree with the talking heads and don't stand up for our guys that are taunted by scrubs.
our guys that won us the MLS Cup and that give us they're all every game and entertain us every game

[Super]

He didnt play much last year. Always believed he was overrated, and nothing more than an avg MLS mid late game sub.

TFC had a great run. Two finals in a row. Should have won both. However, the teams that were close, and biting hard, have passed us, and in my opinion, this was our fate this season regardless of the champions league and multiple injuries to key players. Yesterday was a turning point for me. New York did not play well, but man for man, they matched or bettered our guys. Last season, that first and third goal would not have happened.

For 2019 TFC needs to keep Mavinga, Osorio, Seba, and Bradley. Everybody else is expendable


Without the CCL or injuries we'd likely have a good 15 points more than we do now. Let's not forget that thanks to sending the first team to Mexico a few times we basically dropped 3 games playing bench and TFC II players. Beyond that we played many games without a single starter in defence. We did without Altidore for many games as well. This is a great team when healthy and given time to gel, but that just never happened this year.

[pfk]

at the game yesterday. every time that asshole LB for NYFC touched the ball the whole stadium booed. this went on for the whole game.
the real fans know the score, they know what went down. he caused a foul before altidore kicked him and then he embellished. he was perfectly fine a few minutes later

it's a great strategy by the opponent taunt our star players, piss them off, get them kicked out of the game
and of course the talking heads on tv must agree with the ref and take the mls corporate line .
and all the stupid morons on message boards agree with the talking heads and don't stand up for our guys that are taunted by scrubs.
our guys that won us the MLS Cup and that give us they're all every game and entertain us every game

Callens also body checked Seba to the ground in the second half. No call.

A good strategy that has worked against TFC (NYRB and NYCFC) is to hacka and get under the skin of our players and hope they get a penalty, especially with Altidore or Seba as they tend to overreact. It work in this game.

[leafsman]

Until the Refereeing improves in the MLS it will never be a top league. They quality of the players has increased but the refs are still shit.

[ManUtd4ever]

Credit to most of the players for battling hard yesterday in the face of adversity. Devastating loss in the standings though. That may have been curtains for the playoffs this season.

[Scott]

Having slept on it, I feel that Altidore lost his cool because Vanney kept his and as a leader, your manager needs to lose his cool for tactical reasons. Yesterday, and I know a lot of hindsight is kicking in here, was the perfect time for the manager to draw down the fiery heavens. Go running up and down, kick every water bottle in sight. STAND UP for his players, who are clearly being kicked as they try to get back to being the best team in this league.
Weekend before in Atlanta, Martinez moves the ball to his right (we say stretching Bono puts a hand to the ball) ref says Bono got no ball = penalty Atlanta.
Yesterday, just minutes before the Altidore red, just outside the penalty area, Altidore on the attack, moves the ball to his right, beyond NYCFC defender, defender takes out Altidore, play on says the ref.
Altidore is thinking if I were Martinez, I get that call. It was blatant. Altidore is thinking if I wore an Atlanta United jersey, I GET THAT CALL.
Sure Altidore should have kept his cool, but I maintain that VANNEY should have gone beserk to distract, to get thrown out of the stadium. Defending a title is tougher.
I am not a Vanney basher.
I think he has made great decisions and deserves credit galore for the strengths of his team. But Mavinga red one week, Altidore red the next, I don't go %100 on the player need for calm in the face of provocation. An element yes, but the manager needs to breathe some fire and make a statement during the game. TFC needs more than tactics and player selection decisions, they need to demand respect.


I sit behind Vanney, He did not keep his cool. It is always 100% on the players to keep their cool. I agree that the coach can have an impact and show his players something but he got sent off in the 10th minute... I wasn't in Atlanta so I don't know how he reacted there but if it was anything like what Ive seen on the sidelines behind him when the calls aren't coming then I would expect he flipped out. I doubt MLSE has any problem with him taking a fine going after the refs in the Presser but you can't blame Vanney on this result.

[Oldtimer]

Callens also body checked Seba to the ground in the second half. No call.

A good strategy that has worked against TFC (NYRB and NYCFC) is to hacka and get under the skin of our players and hope they get a penalty, especially with Altidore or Seba as they tend to overreact. It work in this game.

They are very intense players, and their reaction shows that. I don't believe that you can coach out basic personality. You can punish, but I think making your team lose is punishment enough.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I sit behind Vanney, He did not keep his cool. It is always 100% on the players to keep their cool. I agree that the coach can have an impact and show his players something but he got sent off in the 10th minute... I wasn't in Atlanta so I don't know how he reacted there but if it was anything like what Ive seen on the sidelines behind him when the calls aren't coming then I would expect he flipped out. I doubt MLSE has any problem with him taking a fine going after the refs in the Presser but you can't blame Vanney on this result.

This X 1000 times!

Come on guys, those of you who try to justify by any means the bone headed stupideness and gross irresponsability of Mavinga and specially Jozy's actions in the last 2 games!
Are you serious?

As I said in a previos post, TFC should HEAVILY fine Jozy for this conduct.
Like for example, if they would fine with $10,000 a player making $200,000-$250,000 per year, the fine should be proportional with what Jozy makes in a year.

You are paid truckloads of money to act like a true professional.
If you can not act like that, there must be consequences which to touch you at the pocket.
Otherwise you'll never learn.

[BelfastBoy]

This X 1000 times!

Come on guys, those of you who try to justify by any means the bone headed stupideness and gross irresponsability of Mavinga and specially Jozy's actions in the last 2 games!
Are you serious?

As I said in a previos post, TFC should HEAVILY fine Jozy for this conduct.
Like for example, if they would fine with $10,000 a player making $200,000-$250,000 per year, the fine should be proportional with what Jozy makes in a year.

You are paid truckloads of money to act like a true professional.
If you can not act like that, there must be consequences which to touch you at the pocket.
Otherwise you'll never learn.

Then Jozy says: who scored the GWG in MLS cup?

[Super]

Then Jozy says: who scored the GWG in MLS cup?

And then we say: by all means, fly off the handle and get red carded when we need you the most.

A player should never be bigger than the needs of the club. NEVER. If he doesn't want to fight for us, and that's his attitude, then we need to ship him out. However, I don't think that's the case of course, and I do think he is kicking himself right now. We need to cool our jets and get back on track FAST.

[T-boy]

Then Jozy says: who scored the GWG in MLS cup?

You can quickly become a hero on soccer and equally quickly become a villain.

Jozy lost us this game, there is no doubt in my mind. Ten minutes in? Come on Jozy, be professional! I love the guy, but he needs to keep his head otherwise it costs the whole team.

You spend all week training and preparing for a game and then you lose a key player within ten minute due to stupidity. Vanney could never plan for that to happen. It hurts when you get a red card for a professional foul or a last ditch mistimed challenge, but just randomly kicking a guy our of frustration? He's a silly boy.

[Areathrasher]

FYI That was Jozy's 4th red card for TFC

[pfk]

So Bradley has five yellow cards this season going back to the beginning of the season, is he going to be suspended?

According to the MLS website: 'Player accrues five yellow cards: $250 fine and a suspension from his next MLS Regular Season Match.'

BUT, there is a provision called the 'Good Behaviour Initiative' where a player that doesn't accumulate a yellow in five games has the total card accumulation reduced by one. There was a stretch of eight games where MB didn't get a card, so he should have four yellows now. Am I right in reading these rules?

[ensco]

This effing Altidore guy, making a mistake... I mean, what has he ever done for us?

[paul-collins]

Then Jozy says: who scored the GWG in MLS cup?
On a busted foot no less

[paul-collins]

All these people calling for Jozy's head are no better than those who are calling for Vanney to be out. You all have zero patience and zero perspective. I'm just not going to credit you with any reasonable thought any more.

By all means, Jozy's petulance could be criticized and even disciplined. I would hope he man up and apologize to his teammates at least. (And if you had watched him the 8 minutes leading up to it, the kick out was not random at all, regardless of how stupid it was. All the off camera harassment was pretty intense. He's got to learn to deal with that, clearly he's been scouted.)

But shipping him out. Yeah, ok. Take a seat.

[ag futbol]

Leaving aside Altidore’s red card for a second, the team played pretty damn well with 10 men for 80 minutes. Really it was simple mistakes that did us in as opposed to playing down a man. Impressive considering the circumstances.

I just wonder, beyond the general fatigue, if these guys are having trouble getting motivated game-to-game? Did it take being persistently ignored / disrespected by the officiating crew to come out and play like that? Having the playoffs on the line? It doesn’t feel like we’re getting that same push every game.

As far as the mistakes go: the midfield feels very out of balance in addition to the CB’s being terrible. I can’t help but wonder if another big-engine two way player to sit next to Bradley is the answer. Delgado does not look up to it this year and fielding both Vasquez and Osorio in a starting 11 is tough.

I hope the new guy is as fast as advertised because to my naked eye we consistently feel like one of the slower teams in the league

[portu]

Leaving aside Altidore’s red card for a second, the team played pretty damn well with 10 men for 80 minutes. Really it was simple mistakes that did us in as opposed to playing down a man. Impressive considering the circumstances.

I just wonder, beyond the general fatigue, if these guys are having trouble getting motivated game-to-game? Did it take being persistently ignored / disrespected by the officiating crew to come out and play like that? Having the playoffs on the line? It doesn’t feel like we’re getting that same push every game.

As far as the mistakes go: the midfield feels very out of balance in addition to the CB’s being terrible. I can’t help but wonder if another big-engine two way player to sit next to Bradley is the answer. Delgado does not look up to it this year and fielding both Vasquez and Osorio in a starting 11 is tough.

I hope the new guy is as fast as advertised because to my naked eye we consistently feel like one of the slower teams in the league
I thought this was Seba's best game of the season, really tried to take over the game and it elevated the entire team. He was incredibly active (and focussed). Closest I've seen him to 2015 form in a long time.

[portu]

On another note, I'm pretty sure Jozy leads the club in red cards now and not one of them has been for a valid tackle - they've all been irresponsible actions.

[flambe]

How does the ref not see the kick out by Moralez on Osorio, he's literally standing 10ft away!!

3:20 into this weeks instant replay on MLS:
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/08/14/was-acosta-offside-rooneys-game-winning-cross-dc-instant-replay?autoplay=true

Is this the kind of thing that can get retroactively looked at, and if not, why not? The consistency in this game (let alone the league as a whole) is ridiculous.

https://image.ibb.co/moo1Ap/Screen_Hunter_62.png

[shwade]

On another note, I'm pretty sure Jozy leads the club in red cards now and not one of them has been for a valid tackle - they've all been irresponsible actions.

At his age and this stage of his professional career it's ridiculous that he still can't control his reactions and allows himself to be baited.

[JuliquE]

On another note, I'm pretty sure Jozy leads the club in red cards now and not one of them has been for a valid tackle - they've all been irresponsible actions.


At his age and this stage of his professional career it's ridiculous that he still can't control his reactions and allows himself to be baited.
I'm hearing you guys, but I also know he's the heart and soul of this team—the rug that ties the room together.

Bradley is a great captain, but he's too militant to REALLY be able to relate to and get on with, for instance, the younger guys (probably does fine with guys like Moor, for instance).

The card is unfortunate, but it really hasn't been until his involvement that an air of belief began to creep back into this side; even his sending off seemed to inspire Giovinco, in his absence, who's no doubt been somewhat off his game. He just adds a little fire/fight to our side's collective spirit (look at his most recent couple of interviews).

He has the same impact on the pitch, as well, and if that means he's the first to be carded, or has a "moment" like he done last match… it's tough, but you have to take the good with the bad; he wouldn't be who and what he is to the team without it. Now, that's not to say I don't wish he'd try to find a better balance, especially at a time like now… but, I also keep in mind that it's a time like now when it'd be most trying, given the "us against the world" circumstances.

[shwade]

I'm hearing you guys, but I also know he's the heart and soul of this team—the rug that ties the room together.

Bradley is a great captain, but he's too militant to REALLY be able to relate to and get on with, for instance, the younger guys (probably does fine with guys like Moor, for instance).

The card is unfortunate, but it really hasn't been until his involvement that an air of belief began to creep back into this side; even his sending off seemed to inspire Giovinco, in his absence, who's no doubt been somewhat off his game. He just adds a little fire/fight to our side's collective spirit (look at his most recent couple of interviews).

He has the same impact on the pitch, as well, and if that means he's the first to be carded, or has a "moment" like he done last match… it's tough, but you have to take the good with the bad; he wouldn't be who and what he is to the team without it. Now, that's not to say I don't wish he'd try to find a better balance, especially at a time like now… but, I also keep in mind that it's a time like now when it'd be most trying, given the "us against the world" circumstances.

I'm not hating on him at all. He's all heart but it would be kinda helpful for our DP to not fall for the other teams shit so often. At this point he has to know they're baiting him.

[Red4ever]

How does the ref not see the kick out by Moralez on Osorio, he's literally standing 10ft away!!

3:20 into this weeks instant replay on MLS:
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/08/14/was-acosta-offside-rooneys-game-winning-cross-dc-instant-replay?autoplay=true

Is this the kind of thing that can get retroactively looked at, and if not, why not? The consistency in this game (let alone the league as a whole) is ridiculous.

https://image.ibb.co/moo1Ap/Screen_Hunter_62.png

This was infuriating.

[TheGoodson]

Giovinco was also mugged in the box in the second half and nothing had been said by anyone.. The referee was a joke, he had zero control of the game from the outset. If he would have called the multiple fouls on their defense the first 10 minutes on both Giovinco and Altidore, Altidore would not have gotten the red and more than likely would have had a man sent off due yellow cards as they were fouling both forwards all game.

That being said even with a man down we were the better team for the majority of the game. I know that doesn't count in the standings, but it bodes well for the stretch run and trying to make the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs the rest of the league is screwed as when TFC is in form and healthy there is no team in this league that can touch them

[paul-collins]

You know, the general discussion of team discipline would be great if some stats were used to compare Toronto to, say, NYCFC. Like, say, Fouls Committed. Toronto has the fewest FC by far in the league and NYCFC are the third worst offenders in the league - 192 vs 334. I mean, we all saw that NYCFC were dirty, but obviously this was not just a one-off.

Wish I could find the team card stats...

edit: found them

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/mls/team-stats/sp-s-yc-vw-teamdiscipline

mid table for yellows and reds. We need to get better at fouling without drawing cards. :D