TFC On Pace for the 3rd Worst Season in Club History

[NK Toronto]

We are now at the halfway point in the season with 15 points earned. If this pace continues the team will have 30 points at season's end which would make this the 3rd worst season in club history since the league went to a 34 game schedule in 2011. In 2012 TFC had their lowest ever points total with only 23 points based on a record of 5-21-8, which was followed by a 29 point season in 2013 from a record of 6-17-11. In 2007 the team had 25 points for the year but it was during a 30 game season.

I can't recall any team in any league in any sport having such a drop off from one season to the next. I know we have been decimated by injuries but I just don't see this thing turning around when and if everyone gets back healthy.

Is it time to re-build or do we go another year with the same core of players?

[notthesun]

I refuse to believe we went from possibly the best team on the continent to MLS basement dwellers in the span of a few months. This isn't Space Jam - our roster is talented and despite how we're playing that talent is still there.

Ugly as things are right now, I have to believe this is a blip. Blowing things up right now is throwing out all the good we've built over the last 2 years for 3 bad months.

[OgtheDim]

I am willing to give this braintrust the chance to retool & learn from all this.

Why?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Columbus_Crew_SC_season


I don't think there is any magic bullet coach or GM out there guaranteed to do better moving forward. I do believe that if these circumstances occurred again, that things would be handled much differently. But nothing in the past experience of any of these players, coaches, staff or management could have prepared them for what has occurred. The only people with close to this experience are Frank Klopas and those players with Montreal. But they didn't have an MLS Cup final/ Supporter's Shield season before that.

I have yet to see anything in the work of Bez or Vanney indicating that they can not move on from what is a disappointing year and move this team forward. We have all seen many times where rash decisions to dump coaches/players/management after half a season have led to spirals of ineptitude.

We need some changes for next season. Some players had their best season's ever & will not be repeating those years. And, the league evolves, as players cycle out.

Let them try to salvage this season. Dumping anybody now means giving up on 2018 & 2019 & likely into 2020. This team is not that bad. It has the basic blocks to get better (except at CB which has been a black hole for this franchise since day 1). Don't throw that out.

[NK Toronto]

I am willing to give this braintrust the chance to retool & learn from all this.

Why?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Columbus_Crew_SC_season


I don't think there is any magic bullet coach or GM out there guaranteed to do better moving forward. I do believe that if these circumstances occurred again, that things would be handled much differently. But nothing in the past experience of any of these players, coaches, staff or management could have prepared them for what has occurred. The only people with close to this experience are Frank Klopas and those players with Montreal. But they didn't have an MLS Cup final/ Supporter's Shield season before that.

I have yet to see anything in the work of Bez or Vanney indicating that they can not move on from what is a disappointing year and move this team forward. We have all seen many times where rash decisions to dump coaches/players/management after half a season have led to spirals of ineptitude.

We need some changes for next season. Some players had their best season's ever & will not be repeating those years. And, the league evolves, as players cycle out.

Let them try to salvage this season. Dumping anybody now means giving up on 2018 & 2019 & likely into 2020. This team is not that bad. It has the basic blocks to get better (except at CB which has been a black hole for this franchise since day 1). Don't throw that out.

Interesting post. I read your link and I believe your message is that Columbus went from Eastern Conference Champions in 2015 to missing the play-offs in 2016 and then made it back to the Eastern Final in 2017, so these large swings in point totals from season to season are not unheard of.

[OgtheDim]

Interesting post. I read your link and I believe your message is that Columbus went from Eastern Conference Champions in 2015 to missing the play-offs in 2016 and then made it back to the Eastern Final in 2017, so these large swings in point totals from season to season are not unheard of.

Yes.

NYRB & CBus have shown that with the right coach, if they show promise, you stick with them to get through the rough patches. FCD after last year to this year is another example.

What all 3 of those teams have is a specified identity that their best players play to. They also all specialise in bringing in young players to fill those identities. I think we are beginning to see that with guys like Telfer.

Our identity is breaking lines to attack right at defenders. What we need to add to that is a consistantly good defensive line.

[James17930]

I am willing to give this braintrust the chance to retool & learn from all this.

Why?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Columbus_Crew_SC_season


I don't think there is any magic bullet coach or GM out there guaranteed to do better moving forward. I do believe that if these circumstances occurred again, that things would be handled much differently. But nothing in the past experience of any of these players, coaches, staff or management could have prepared them for what has occurred. The only people with close to this experience are Frank Klopas and those players with Montreal. But they didn't have an MLS Cup final/ Supporter's Shield season before that.

I have yet to see anything in the work of Bez or Vanney indicating that they can not move on from what is a disappointing year and move this team forward. We have all seen many times where rash decisions to dump coaches/players/management after half a season have led to spirals of ineptitude.

We need some changes for next season. Some players had their best season's ever & will not be repeating those years. And, the league evolves, as players cycle out.

Let them try to salvage this season. Dumping anybody now means giving up on 2018 & 2019 & likely into 2020. This team is not that bad. It has the basic blocks to get better (except at CB which has been a black hole for this franchise since day 1). Don't throw that out.

I mostly agree, though Aketxe was a big mistake. Signed a problematic personality in a position we didn't need for too much money.

[NK Toronto]

Going forward I would like to see the club focusing on younger players vs. players in their late twenties / early thirties. As great an addition as VV has been he has shown himself to be fragile this season. The same with GVDW. There are a lot of good quality players in both Europe and South America who perhaps aren't happy with their playing status at their current club and would like the opportunity to play for a "big" MLS club, especially now that salaries are going up due to increased TAM. These are the types of players I would like to see TFC targeting. The problem with older players is that they tend to break down a lot quicker and we have seen how this has hurt the club this year.

[NK Toronto]

I mostly agree, though Aketxe was a big mistake. Signed a problematic personality in a position we didn't need for too much money.

Interesting that Aketxe neither played nor was on the bench tonight. Leads me to believe there may be a transfer in the works and they don't want to play him so as not to risk an injury.

[James17930]

Interesting that Aketxe neither played nor was on the bench tonight. Leads me to believe there may be a transfer in the works and they don't want to play him so as not to risk an injury.

A return to Bilbao, most likely.

[Red4ever]

Going forward I would like to see the club focusing on younger players vs. players in their late twenties / early thirties. As great an addition as VV has been he has shown himself to be fragile this season. The same with GVDW. There are a lot of good quality players in both Europe and South America who perhaps aren't happy with their playing status at their current club and would like the opportunity to play for a "big" MLS club, especially now that salaries are going up due to increased TAM. These are the types of players I would like to see TFC targeting. The problem with older players is that they tend to break down a lot quicker and we have seen how this has hurt the club this year.

I have trouble thinking of anyone from Europe who is under 25 and has contributed to our club in any meaningful way.

I say this because if you are under 25 and in the best region in the world, you're probably not ready to give up and come to America for anything less than a insane amount of money.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I have trouble thinking of anyone from Europe who is under 25 and has contributed to our club in any meaningful way.

I say this because if you are under 25 and in the best region in the world, you're probably not ready to give up and come to America for anything less than a insane amount of money.

This!

Nobody in his right mind if he's under 25 would come from Europe to play in the MLS, unless he's grossly overpaid.
I'm talking ony about players who are good enough in Europe too, not problem players, a la Aketxe.

So in these conditions the management should look almost exlusively towards south America for young players.

[NK Toronto]

I have trouble thinking of anyone from Europe who is under 25 and has contributed to our club in any meaningful way.

I say this because if you are under 25 and in the best region in the world, you're probably not ready to give up and come to America for anything less than a insane amount of money.

Chris Mavinga was playing in Russia and was unhappy and wanted a move. He was 25 when TFC signed him and has become the club's best defender.

Auro was brought in on loan from Sao Paolo in Brazil, with an option to buy, at age 22. He has become a regular in the line-up and given his age has enormous up side potential.

So yes there are young players out there willing to play in MLS. Not everyone can play for a top end side in La Liga, the EPL, Serie A, or the Bundesliga. Doesn't mean they aren't good players. Plus living in a major city like Toronto might be appealing to young, single players who may be living in a smaller town.

I am sure there other Mavinga's and Auro's out there.

[Ultra & Proud]

This!

Nobody in his right mind if he's under 25 would come from Europe to play in the MLS, unless he's grossly overpaid.
I'm talking ony about players who are good enough in Europe too, not problem players, a la Aketxe.

So in these conditions the management should look almost exlusively towards south America for young players.

There a a lot of leagues and/or countries in Europe that are without a doubt pure shit that players would like to get out of. I said this to many people many times, but there are a lot of leagues in Europe besides England, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Holland, & Italy. Not every player from Europe can manage to play in a 'top' league. Once you get into places like Scandinavia & eastern Europe the leagues are lesser as are the wages and not everyone & their families can fit comfortably in certain places (Mavinga for example). That's our advantage and as long as you scout properly, there are players out there. Not to say a S.A player can't come in and be effective obviously but to some we might be one of those places where they don't fit comfortably because of language, colder weather, etc.

[Globetrotter]

It's so obvious yet nobody has point this out... all of these problem we're having "coincidentally" happened after we got rid of Beitashour...

People ragged on him for so long, and now look what's happened.






(ps, though factually true, it was said jokingly)

[Hamilton_Red]

It's so obvious yet nobody has point this out... all of these problem we're having "coincidentally" happened after we got rid of Beitashour...

People ragged on him for so long, and now look what's happened.


(ps, though factually true, it was said jokingly)


but but we went to the CONCACAF Finals and lost on penalties...would have won the whole darn thing if Delgado could have kept calm.

We are going to be that team that squeaks into the playoffs late in the last spot...get drawn against the first place team....and the first place team goes...ah shit!

[Derko]

This


but but we went to the CONCACAF Finals and lost on penalties...would have won the whole darn thing if Delgado could have kept calm.

We are going to be that team that squeaks into the playoffs late in the last spot...get drawn against the first place team....and the first place team goes...ah shit!

[OgtheDim]

Every single one of our defenders has been out injured at one point or another.

Beitashour on his own would not have helped that unless he too managed to stay uninjured for this stretch. Given he had some normal scale injuries when he was here, I doubt it.

Our team has been held together by Bono, Osorio, Bradley & Seba - everybody else has either been out for bits or crap.

[Globetrotter]

Lol - if you read through the other threads I had supported the team and thought we would get into the playoffs. If we stay tight over the next 3 weeks and come back healthy (minus Mavinga, long term), then we should be able to put on a great run.

Looking at the starting lineup we put out over the last several games/weeks... not surprised at all with where we sit. We dont have the 2017 team out on the field, and when we do, each one of those regulars have had their own turn at botching us out of points.

The whole thing strictly comes down to health.

[Auzzy]

I really don't get why people keep going on about Beitashour. Remember GvdW is costing us less under the cap than Beitashour, due to TAM used. Add to that, vdW has shown to be more versatile, and saved our bacon by playing all positions across the backline. Not that it was all perfect, but better than Beita could have done. Plus vdW can play midfield well. And he's been injured less than all our other defenders (except Auro).

The comparison Beita/vdW is moot. If you want to make some comparisons, then compare vdW with somebody else from around the world that we could have gotten for TAM.