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View Full Version : Match Day 17 - TFC @ Minnesota - Wed July 4 7pm - Makes No Sense At All



OgtheDim
07-02-2018, 07:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1sYN0PuRs4



*******

Have at It People

James17930
07-02-2018, 08:34 AM
I would like to win this game, please.

Gringo Starr
07-02-2018, 08:55 AM
We need to win this one

OgtheDim
07-02-2018, 01:58 PM
We should win this game. The Loons are poor.

ensco
07-02-2018, 07:13 PM
So I just watched the extended highlights of the Dallas-Minnesota game last Friday, and Minnesota didn’t look poor, they looked snakebit. Sound familiar?

Quintero was a handful, extremely dangerous, creating a lot, looked a lot like Seba. Those with long memories will recall him tearing us to shreds in the second leg of the Santos Laguna tie in 2012. Based on what we have seen in CCL and the WC, I'd have kept him and sold Uribe (they sold Quintero right before our games with CA).

(ps how many games have I seen this year where Dallas do little but eke out a result?)

James17930
07-02-2018, 07:25 PM
We should win this game. The Loons are poor.

No offense, but this is exactly the type of attitude we absolutely can't afford to have, for we are also poor. How can we really claim to be better than anyone else right now?

Look at how many other 'poor' teams we've already lost too (at home, no less).

I really hope the players aren't still thinking like this, because if so, it means they've learned nothing over the past two months and will continue to lose.

As ^Ensco says, MIN is a decent team, and Quintero is more dangerous than anyone we're fielding right now. Plus the game is in MIN, on the turf.

I certainly want a win, but if we escape with a draw I think that would be an excellent result.

Fort York Redcoat
07-02-2018, 11:43 PM
All the points for Husker Du

I hope to be at Joes for this one

PizzaEatingYeti
07-03-2018, 03:27 AM
No offense, but this is exactly the type of attitude we absolutely can't afford to have, for we are also poor. How can we really claim to be better than anyone else right now?

Look at how many other 'poor' teams we've already lost too (at home, no less).

I really hope the players aren't still thinking like this, because if so, it means they've learned nothing over the past two months and will continue to lose.


This x 10.000!

What more needs to happen for everybody to erase from their minds forever the "we are the champions" or "we had a great run in the CCL" or "we are the deepest team in MLS, wait until everybody is healthy again, and we'll go on a world beater run again" attitude?

We are nothing right now, we are a struggling, very poor team, with a ton of deep problems!

More so, if comparing our payroll with all the other MLS teams, we are ridiculously bad.

OgtheDim
07-03-2018, 12:12 PM
More of an update

https://twitter.com/plattoli/status/1014193457231888384


Mavinga back for July 14th would be welcome news.

paul-collins
07-03-2018, 12:25 PM
Also vdW and VV travelling to Minnesota is potentially positive.

OgtheDim
07-03-2018, 12:47 PM
Seem to be really being cautious with the over training & doing a true rotation, finally. VDW out for Sunday was probably missed but he needed a game away I bet.

Gringo Starr
07-03-2018, 02:03 PM
If we beat the loons, would it make sense to play a true B squad against KC and rest guys up for Orlando, that game will be key

Super
07-03-2018, 02:07 PM
If we beat the loons, would it make sense to play a true B squad against KC and rest guys up for Orlando, that game will be key

We can't afford to throw games anymore. Quite frankly, if Vanney throws another game this season I'll be calling for his head. Every game from here on out is a must win. Field the best team, always, unless the players are unable to walk.

Gringo Starr
07-03-2018, 04:34 PM
Realistically though in our current form, on the road, against skc-top team in the west, on short rest are we likely to get points? The Orlando game and Chicago a week later-both teams we are chasing for the last spot in the east are near must wins and we have CCL games in there as well. SKC will be third game in a week, if guys are still tired would fielding a b side that bad

jazzy
07-04-2018, 10:35 AM
Every game is full out , going for a win . Our talent is mediocre and every team knows it . All teams press us , and counter up the middle , plus I'd love to see how many times we give the ball away . It has been to easy all season to coach against us . We have to control the ball much better , it's all we can do . Vanney amazing when we are on a roll but is perlexed when everyone is not clicking . We miss Jose but he'll take ages to get in shape and will he last .? teams have past us . Big changes will be needed .So players should be playing for their jobs period . Every game is a must win .

Derko
07-04-2018, 10:58 AM
I really don't know what to think about this game, TFC has had opportunities to win games when we play attacking football, but then revert to the passing game and with all of our missing pieces we don't have the player to play the passing game, just look at the second half comeback down 3-nil and attacked. This tippy-tappy game where 1000 passes are made all in the midfield and you don't score is not very attractive, to me anyway. Again I ask where has the leadership gone, not even Bradley seems to be interested in leading by example.

TFC are making it hard to be a supporter at the moment, much like England, I want them to win badly but are not surprised when they lose at least this year.

Sorry for being a Negative Nancy, Roll on TFC

ensco
07-04-2018, 01:02 PM
We have some injuries. Hope the replacements can find a way. Tough in a capped league.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 01:29 PM
Every game is full out , going for a win . Our talent is mediocre ...


The Loons are starting Colleen Warner.


We should win this one.

BelfastBoy
07-04-2018, 01:35 PM
Need an emphatic 4-0 win here.

Derko
07-04-2018, 02:00 PM
Need an emphatic 4-0 win here.

Agree, get everyone's confidence going in the right direction.

reggie
07-04-2018, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=BelfastBoy;1874808]Need an emphatic 4-0 win here.[
yes we hope but not with this roster tonight.wonder if anybody pulled a hammy getting out of bed today.:facepalm:

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 03:52 PM
A win - I don't care how ugly.

Davenport
07-04-2018, 03:57 PM
A win - I don't care how ugly.


I agree, but please stop calling me ugly.

catz4ever
07-04-2018, 05:09 PM
I don't know if this is good or bad

https://www.facebook.com/torontofc/photos/a.151267901804.123035.10611651804/10155282702636805/?type=3&theater

witenite
07-04-2018, 06:13 PM
My god my eyes are bleeding, what a pitch

witenite
07-04-2018, 06:15 PM
My god my ears are bleeding Vic rauter

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:16 PM
Here's a stream if anyone needs one (bad quality, though – if anyone has an HD one please post it):

http://www.soccerjumbotv2.me/1/ch-1.html

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:19 PM
The "always be shit" chant at the defending MLS champs. :facepalm:

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:21 PM
What the fuck ..

witenite
07-04-2018, 06:21 PM
Great shot

Gringo Starr
07-04-2018, 06:22 PM
Crap, so much for looking past the loons...

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:22 PM
Reminder of why we need Moor or Mavinga - they don't back off that guy in that position.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:22 PM
Huh ... that was actually just a really nice shot.

Canary10
07-04-2018, 06:24 PM
Huh ... that was actually just a really nice shot.

Nice shot but one of the two needed to close.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:24 PM
Better stream:

http://www.sb2.stream/2018/07/minnesota-united-vs-toronto-fc-mls-live_4.html

Yohan
07-04-2018, 06:24 PM
I get Hagglund backed off to not get beaten by Quintero on the dribble, but ugh. Too much respect of Quintero's ability and got burned

Canary10
07-04-2018, 06:24 PM
Fuck here we go again.

catz4ever
07-04-2018, 06:26 PM
Thatís it Iím done with them thereís no friggen hope...they are horrible

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:26 PM
Shoot me now !!

witenite
07-04-2018, 06:27 PM
Poor Irwin, man vanney has to be accountable for not having this team ready

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:27 PM
Fuck here we go again.

Yep.

Yep ...

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:28 PM
Can we please see Ayo get a run out tonight, about the only positive I can see as of now coming out of tonight.

urdiub
07-04-2018, 06:28 PM
Seasons over, we come into a game against Minnesota looking like we’re trying to get a draw. There’s no motivation anymore, nobody is running. It’s one thing to be unlucky, but we’ve just been BAD.

notthesun
07-04-2018, 06:29 PM
We are utterly broken. Mind boggling that this is the case with a team like 80% the same as the one that just tore up the league last year.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:29 PM
I'm not sure even the first 5 years of defending looked like this.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:29 PM
And now Osorio is hurt.

Let's just forfeit the rest of the season and start again next year.

EDIT:

Nevermind, he was just practicing his Neymar impersonation.

SirBobSaget
07-04-2018, 06:31 PM
Reminds me of Chelsea the season after winning the league with mourinho

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:31 PM
WTF is it with this back four tonight, they are a mess.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:34 PM
Hagglund & Zavs just are not good enough without somebody to tell them where to run.

Loons are crud though. They regularly just kick the ball out of bounds. I wouldn't give up on this game IF our defence can tighten up.

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 06:34 PM
The shitshow continues. How long before the coach has to take responsibility for at least part of this? After all it’s his responsibility to organize the side. I’ve lost count now of how many early goals we’ve given up through being disorganized. Also Hamilton is no Altidore, so why play him like he is? It’s like being a man down. Reshuffle your midfield and let them support Giovinco

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 06:37 PM
Hagglund & Zavs just are not good enough without somebody to tell them where to run.

Loons are crud though. They regularly just kick the ball out of bounds. I wouldn't give up on this game IF our defence can tighten up.
So that’s a priority for Bez along with a striker when the window opens. Ship out Aketxe and VDV to finance it. Also surely the question needs asked, if we are going to continually miss Altidore for such long stretches should we look for a replacement?

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:37 PM
Man it’s hard watching this shot show, especially with the World Cup going on, the level of play is light years apart.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:37 PM
The shitshow continues. How long before the coach has to take responsibility for at least part of this? After all it’s his responsibility to organize the side. I’ve lost count now of how many early goals we’ve given up through being disorganized. Also Hamilton is no Altidore, so why play him like he is? It’s like being a man down. Reshuffle your midfield and let them support Giovinco

Yeah ... maybe a 4-5-1, and then hopefully that would shore us up at the back too.

Oldtimer
07-04-2018, 06:37 PM
Wake me up when the nightmare season is over.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:38 PM
....Also Hamilton is no Altidore, so why play him like he is? It’s like being a man down. Reshuffle your midfield and let them support Giovinco

Because Giovinco as a lone forward is not going to work either.

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:40 PM
Wake me up when the nightmare season is over.
I will never turn my back on the badge, will still be going to games and traveling to support the lads, it’s what we do.

Canary10
07-04-2018, 06:41 PM
Iíd consider dropping Giovinco back as an AM instead of a striker. The backline though, I donít have a single idea.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:42 PM
Because Giovinco as a lone forward is not going to work either.

Maybe more like a 4-4-1-1 – have Hamilton sit a bit deeper to try to be a hold-up man, and then play in to Seba.

Maybe.

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 06:42 PM
I’d consider dropping Giovinco back as an AM instead of a striker. The backline though, I don’t have a single idea.

What a mess this neckline/backline is LOL

Oldtimer
07-04-2018, 06:42 PM
I will never turn my back on the badge, will still be going to games and traveling to support the lads, it’s what we do.

Not giving up, will support in person, just find it hard to watch something this bad disconnected from a distance.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:47 PM
Hasler has been getting run past - saw the same thing on Sunday. He's not really a WB. The change to the 4-4-2 might help but the back two are just not good enough for me.

Canary10
07-04-2018, 06:48 PM
What is Greg Vanney wearing? He looks like heís given up.

Gringo Starr
07-04-2018, 06:51 PM
Getting some chances at least

Gringo Starr
07-04-2018, 06:54 PM
Game on

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 06:55 PM
See what I was saying about the Loons being crap.

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 06:55 PM
Yes! That’s more like it by Morrow, but why did it take until the water break to find a formation that works?

We need to capitalize here. Three points tonight are a must

Canary10
07-04-2018, 06:56 PM
See what I was saying about the Loons being crap.

Yup. That was a horrible goal. Come on guys.

James17930
07-04-2018, 06:57 PM
Yay, other teams can have defensive miscues too.

notthesun
07-04-2018, 06:58 PM
Prime example of really missing Vazquez there. Osorio has been great but he's still not the guy to play defense-splitting balls. Oso had Giovinco making a run to his left and Hamilton on the right but delayed then played it behind Hamilton. If that's Vazquez on the ball he rolls it through for a good chance.

Eastend
07-04-2018, 06:59 PM
See what I was saying about the Loons being crap.

Don't think we have the right to call any other team crap at this time.

Dom

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 06:59 PM
Because Giovinco as a lone forward is not going to work either.
How do we know that? Not in a traditional lone striker role I agree but with Osorio and Vazquez playing more advanced midfielders supporting him ( think old fashioned No.8 & 10) it just might. Surely worth a try?

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 07:03 PM
How do we know that? ...

Because we have tried it numerous times over the last few seasons & it never works. Heck, when we play with Vasquez as the second forward, its really a 4-4-1-1.

RedsYNWA
07-04-2018, 07:04 PM
Horrible kits on Minnesota look like Pajamas:coolgleam::coolgleam::coolgleam::shocked:: shocked::shocked:

witenite
07-04-2018, 07:17 PM
Common boys big half time speech from vanney will bring us back

Eastend
07-04-2018, 07:20 PM
Can we just cut the TSN voice feed please and go with the other feed? Vic....ugh

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 07:25 PM
Bono gets that one.

notthesun
07-04-2018, 07:25 PM
Sad trombone

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 07:25 PM
Utter garbage from Irwin. Once again we start a half lethargically to our cost :mad:

Oldtimer
07-04-2018, 07:26 PM
The good side is that Irwin is getting lots of practice.

ensco
07-04-2018, 07:26 PM
Let's be reasonable. That is an amazing pair of goals from Quintero.

urdiub
07-04-2018, 07:28 PM
Should have traded Gio for Quintero! (Obviously kidding)

But comparing effort levels between the two today is like night and day.

SirBobSaget
07-04-2018, 07:29 PM
Irwin meet waivers

notthesun
07-04-2018, 07:30 PM
Irwin's MLS career just ended

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 07:30 PM
No way Irwin :mad: Once bitten twice shy and all that...

Shocking giveaway by VDV as well. What a waste of money he has been

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 07:31 PM
Irwin at fault on that one BUT gosh Zavs is afraid to jump in.

Eastend
07-04-2018, 07:31 PM
just awful....shit shit...awful

Leedsoronto
07-04-2018, 07:31 PM
Irwin will get an injury bending over picking up the ball out of his net if he not careful

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
Let's be reasonable. That is an amazing pair of goals from Quintero.
Nothing amazing for me, just shocking positioning by our goalkeeper. An amateur keeper would be expected to stop both those goals

wopchop
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
What the fuck.

catz4ever
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
😣😤😫🤮 embarrassing!!!!

Gringo Starr
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
We are making bad teams look like world beaters

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
This is just crap

Eastend
07-04-2018, 07:32 PM
The good side is that Irwin is getting lots of practice.

but he's not touching the ball...it just keeps going over his head.

Eastend
07-04-2018, 07:34 PM
Nothing amazing for me, just shocking positioning by our goalkeeper. An amateur keeper would be expected to stop both those goals

100%

azorean
07-04-2018, 07:34 PM
We are Broken!....This! against Minnesota! ...Holy...

Oldtimer
07-04-2018, 07:34 PM
If I'm in the board room, I'm asking why we are paying so much for this level of bad, when bad can be had so much cheaper. The first player I'd be asking about would be Clint Irwin.

Canary10
07-04-2018, 07:34 PM
We are just fucking awful. I donít know what to say. I canít see this being fixed this year. Too may injuries, too many problems, no cap space, Bradleyís leadership is AWOL. Wtf.

ensco
07-04-2018, 07:34 PM
Let's be reasonable. That is an amazing pair of goals from Quintero.

Listen, we suck. Easy to be mad. I am not.

Easy to blame Irwin. I blame our defending more than I blame Irwin, but Irwin is going to wear it, that’s how this works.

All three goals were amazing. Quintero is special. I wish we were seeing Gio have this kind of time and space on the ball.

I love that loon call when they score.

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 07:35 PM
The defence needs some retooling , WTF ..

sn0re
07-04-2018, 07:36 PM
Manning and Bez really need to do something about this now

jloome
07-04-2018, 07:38 PM
Easy to blame Irwin. I blame our defending more.

All three goals were amazing.


Something seriously off in our locker room, must be. THere's just no effort, no drive. Last year, we played with zeal and confidence. But now there's no self belief from the same players.

Anyone remember when the last time we had two from giovinco was? Or where they both came from the run of play, rather than a set piece?

Is Vasquez made of glass? Is Auro physically unable to defend?

These and more questions....

All I know is, we resign Beta instead of demanding he take a pay cut, keep our starting lineup healthy and....

How can extra travel possibly have such an effect? It seems like every MLS team has half the lineup missing at any one time.

DIEHARDTFC
07-04-2018, 07:38 PM
At this point two wins against mtl are the only things I can hope for this season. Well be back in 2019.

ensco
07-04-2018, 07:40 PM
Something seriously off in our locker room, must be. THere's just no effort, no drive. Last year, we played with zeal and confidence. But now there's no self belief from the same players.

Anyone remember when the last time we had two from giovinco was? Or where they both came from the run of play, rather than a set piece?

Is Vasquez made of glass? Is Auro physically unable to defend?

These and more questions....

All I know is, we resign Beta instead of demanding he take a pay cut, keep our starting lineup healthy and....

How can extra travel possibly have such an effect? It seems like every MLS team has half the lineup missing at any one time.

1) We have become predictable. When was the last time Gio had the ball with the kind of time and space that Quintero has had.

2) We can’t catch a break. We weren’t as good as our record last year, we're not as bad as our record this year.

jloome
07-04-2018, 07:41 PM
1) We have become predictable.

This is a major problem. Every offensive set starts with a wide player trying to feed the top of the box. Other teams just keep stepping up and breaking it up. We've got the players right now, but no space to move.

Kaz
07-04-2018, 07:42 PM
This is almost a clean sweep of the issues the team has been having. 2 goals in the first 20. 1 in the first 10. 2 sets of goals within 10 minutes. All you needed was the third goal to happen 2 minutes earlier and you would have what is wrong with TFC BINGO.

This is a team that is a sleep when they walk on the pitch. It is happening more and more. Because the team lacks leadership both coaching and from team leaders. End of season the front office needs to figure out who are the personalities leaving the team in such poor shape and remove them.

If that means, Vanney, Bradley and Gio all have to go so be it.

In the mean team the front office needs to tell them to get their heads out of their asses and start working.

Coach of the year should be able to make it work better than it is.

Last season we have injuries we do well and everyone is like oh look how deep TFC is Vanney is amazing. This year TFC has injuries and everyone is like oh well you can't blame Vanney for the poor play that is on the players and the injuries.

No this is shit play. This is TFC from several years ago. This is the TFC I've seen just under the surface since Vanney started. We hit a rough patch and he doesn't know how to play out of it because the league has left him behind.

catz4ever
07-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Finally Gio scores!!!! I think to little to late but hoping this helps his confidence

jloome
07-04-2018, 07:42 PM
When was the last time Gio had the ball with the kind of time and space that Quintero has had.

Prophetic

General Woolfe
07-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Yes Sťba!!

Too little too late though I fear ...

ensco
07-04-2018, 07:43 PM
When was the last time Gio had the ball with the kind of time and space that Quintero has had.



Haha. Too funny.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 07:47 PM
For the last 2 seasons, Zavs when with Moor has been OK. Same with Hagglund. Brought in Mavinga last year and we had a solid back line. THIS season, they have been pathetic. Its been their give aways early & bad defending lapses that have cost us momentum almost every single game. Yes, we have no outlet pass without Altidore. But the brain trust HAVE to figure out something about the back line. Yes, injuries started all this but we currently have decent enough WB's and FB's but not a single decent CB.

None of us or the brain trust could have anticipated that, and TFC have tried every single combination back there to get something to work. Like, what the heck do you do when guys who played well enough for two seasons come nowhere near the level of play needed in the league?

Mid season CB replacements have a BAD history in this league. (remember Kantari)

azorean
07-04-2018, 07:48 PM
How hard must it be to be repeat Champions? Props to those who do it in any sport / league, MLS should be the easiest of North American pro leagues but still not easy, so many things have to align. Hope we turn this season around and still make some noise though.

catz4ever
07-04-2018, 07:51 PM
TFC is looking very familiar to the Leafs

SirBobSaget
07-04-2018, 07:55 PM
Send hagglund forward!

Red CB Toronto
07-04-2018, 07:58 PM
Congrats to Ayo on making his MLS debut, thus becoming the 201st player to have played for this Reds in team history.

notthesun
07-04-2018, 07:59 PM
Giovinco basically taking up Vazquez's role right now

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 08:02 PM
I think I am going to start treating these games like before 2014 & stop expecting anything in the way of a result. Will make it all just a little less stressful.

SoccMan2
07-04-2018, 08:02 PM
Manning and Bez really need to do something about this now
Manning you say lol, he is too busy with the Argos lol.

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 08:08 PM
2013 TFC - hey, nice comeback fell short but nice to see young guys do stuff

2018 TFC - not good enough

notthesun
07-04-2018, 08:08 PM
2 game moral win streak, things are really turning around

Oldtimer
07-04-2018, 08:09 PM
If they had played all game with the same urgency they played in the last 10 minutes, TFC could have won.

Gringo Starr
07-04-2018, 08:10 PM
I think I am going to start treating these games like before 2014 & stop expecting anything in the way of a result. Will make it all just a little less stressful.

This is sad but probably a sound idea

GerMc
07-04-2018, 08:11 PM
That was brutal...I thought the people talking about the season being over were being premature...but not anymore. If we can’t beat Minnesota, who can we beat. And the painful thing is that the games aren’t even that fun to watch anymore.

BelfastBoy
07-04-2018, 08:14 PM
Is it possible that the players have collectively decided to not play the first half of the year? I can't wait for the first game of the season this weekend.

SoccMan2
07-04-2018, 08:21 PM
Season is basically over and it’s barely July, but we should not be upset as fans because we won everything last year lol, what a load of shit lol remember TFC the best team ever ya ok , how does MLSE reward TFC for winning it all last year , well they go out and buy the Argos and take one of the main Architects behind TFC’s season last year Bill Manning and take him away from full concentration on TFC and also make him president of the Argos, this is how MLSE rewards the only team to win anything since 1967 it’s crap like this that has me wanting to finally give up my seasons once and for all.

andyc
07-04-2018, 08:23 PM
To me there are two immediate issues...

- Why do we try playing 3 CBs when we only have 2 available. Moving people into unnatural positions when it's not needed is crazy right now. We were much more solid after we switched to a back 4...
- Irwin.... Wow he needs to be playing regularly on another team.

Lots of other stuff to sort out like slow starts and team chemistry but sort out the simple stuff first.

reggie
07-04-2018, 08:46 PM
im willing to give vanney another year but not bez...his off season has been brutal.vdw for 700k when he could of signed beita for 300k and is not a import. why give raises to mavinga and vasquez when they already had contracts.btw where is bez.have not heard from him for months

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 09:22 PM
Is it possible that the players have collectively decided to not play the first half of the year? I can't wait for the first game of the season this weekend.

2013 TFC thinking


Maybe, but it was nice to see some good plays & what a come back when you think about it & nice to see Seba get a goal from open play & hey the kids played well & .....



2018 TFC thinking


I think they thought they would just turn it on against DCU & were shocked when that didn't happen. Then Columbus - then NYC. Then NYRB. Now this game. One after another - shockingly badly played bits leading to goals that sap all their energy.


This looks a lot like watching the team in 2015, back when the defence was bad and letting the team down all the time. When you can trust your defence, you can put a plan in place. The midfield executes better, the forwards don't mind a missed pass, people are not trying so hard to get more goals because you know you are not going to have to get 3 to have any chance of a result. These guys in front of those back 2 think they have to score more because they will always give up a goal.

This defence is simply not good enough at this level. I know, Quintero scored some great goals tonight, but this is getting consistent each and every game. The centre of defence without Moor or Mavinga has been horrid. And, in this league, you HAVE to have at least 3 league quality CB's to succeed. We have 2 - both are injured.

Yes, we miss the outlet of Altidore but Hamilton is now providing about the same quality of hold up play as the rest of the league gets from its #3 forward. And we are seeing that in the amount of chances we are getting.

But...that defence.




Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.

Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.

Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.

SirBobSaget
07-04-2018, 09:29 PM
im willing to give vanney another year but not bez...his off season has been brutal.vdw for 700k when he could of signed beita for 300k and is not a import. why give raises to mavinga and vasquez when they already had contracts.btw where is bez.have not heard from him for months

Don't forget Aketxe who wasn't even on the bench tonight.

TFC07
07-04-2018, 10:10 PM
At this point I can't wait next year for CPL. Done with MLSE and MLS.

TFC1986
07-04-2018, 10:27 PM
The game today was "lol".
I still enjoy it, as I have since day 1.
Winning is nice. But I just love soccer as a whole.

reggie
07-04-2018, 10:28 PM
At this point I can't wait next year for CPL. Done with MLSE and MLS.
bye bye

69Chevy396
07-04-2018, 10:33 PM
I have a solution. Every player on TFC starts flopping, diving, and weeping at the first sign of contact.

NK Toronto
07-04-2018, 10:42 PM
Despite what's happening I am still a fan, I will still be going to the stadium, I will still be watching on tv, and I will still be reading this forum. But man is this disappointing. I thought going into this season we would have a dynasty, the Real Madrid of MLS, with an ever growing fan base so that MLSE would have no choice but to expand BMO field to 40K because of the demand for tickets.

SirBobSaget
07-04-2018, 10:57 PM
Despite what's happening I am still a fan, I will still be going to the stadium, I will still be watching on tv, and I will still be reading this forum. But man is this disappointing. I thought going into this season we would have a dynasty, the Real Madrid of MLS, with an ever growing fan base so that MLSE would have no choice but to expand BMO field to 40K because of the demand for tickets.

Great post. TFC is spending well above all the other clubs. They ran the league last year the added 2 more "DPs" in GVW and Aketxe. But because they relied on top players that are injury prone, plus their new Dps are underwhelming its been a total flop. They built last 2 season's teams on MLS veterans that have started to decline. Time to rebuild.

NK Toronto
07-04-2018, 11:06 PM
Great post. TFC is spending well above all the other clubs. They ran the league last year the added 2 more "DPs" in GVW and Aketxe. But because they relied on top players that are injury prone, plus their new Dps are underwhelming its been a total flop. They built last 2 season's teams on MLS veterans that have started to decline. Time to rebuild.


My concern is that MLSE is going to look at the loss in revenue from lower attendance, no play-off games, and decreased tv ratings and cut Manning's budget, which if it were to happen would make rebuilding a lot harder.

reggie
07-04-2018, 11:12 PM
our dps are overpaid anyway.the new dp s will be younger and cheaper.mlse will not cheap out

OgtheDim
07-04-2018, 11:13 PM
The current board's mo seems to be do what it takes to succeed - sure if you reach a plateau you can't get past, then fire people. But this team of management & coaches got past that plateau last year. It pretty much ran the table. That gives people a lot of leeway in the next few seasons. I think there will be some serious consideration as to the makeup of the squad moving forward & I fully expect a few players to be let go/traded come January.

If we are sitting like this a year from now, Vanney will be fired.

noimpactinmtl
07-04-2018, 11:57 PM
If we are sitting like this a year from now, Vanney will be fired.

In all honesty, if we are rehauling the roster, you'll have to give Vanney another two years of leeway unless the team mutinied.

Most of the decisions made by Bez/Vanney are defensible at worst. Aketxe was a young midfielder with a cannon of a foot who was brought in as a reclamation project (aka Mavinga and VdW). He even have Vazquez to vouch for him and convince him to come to Toronto. The red flags that were there was thought to be manageable.

In hindsight, maybe we should have paid more attention to the red flags and his toxic attitude.

Joe Kool
07-05-2018, 01:24 AM
I think I am going to start treating these games like before 2014 & stop expecting anything in the way of a result. Will make it all just a little less stressful.

I have been telling people this for a while now. As long as they donít have a full team I am not expecting anything so I am not disappointed or stressed out and you know what, it works. Why canít we be great? Season ticket price freeze anyone?

paul-collins
07-05-2018, 07:00 AM
In a salary cap league, an organization like MLSE has to find ways to judiciously spend money off the pitch.

Last year the story with Jozy was "we've finally got his hamstrings where they need to be." They spent a lot of thought on how to keep those hammys healthy. So they're no strangers to this way of thinking.

We've never had a winter/spring like this before, and obviously our medical/training staff wasn't ready, nor were the players. (Altidore's bone chips being the exception, everything else is muscle tears or ligament strains)

Similarly, we've never had to face the winter with live grass before, and the pitch was pretty terrible in March and April.

If we're going to be a dynasty, we have to fix the issues that lead to injuries, not jettison the players who many here are now describing as "injury prone." And that requires money and thought, and the money is where we're allowed to spend it.

In the meantime, just get healthy and play well from August on. Oh, and win the V Cup.

ensco
07-05-2018, 07:05 AM
I saw genuine effort, that is what I expect. But let me get this straight.

We are not playing well, and didnít win on the road in 35 degree heat on astroturf, with four of our 7 best players missing, in a capped league, which means....

A bunch of people are done and not watching on TV anymore, or not watching at all....

Like it's ďunacceptable ď. A meal you send back at a restaurant.

This just tells me some of you guys didnít understand ďwinningĒ, and you donít understand ďlosingĒ.

TheGoodson
07-05-2018, 07:07 AM
Holy f@$#ing shit... Fire Vanney, fire Bez... Blow up the team, get rid of our DP's..

Before everyone goes off the deep end lets look at TFC at one point 0 healthy CB, they are still without 2 starters in the back, Jozy gets hurt. Show me any bloody team in the MLS with this many injuries and tell me what place they would be.. Look at Seattle they are in the same boat with injuries. I have said this multiple time the players have essentially a maximum 3 months off over the past 2 years. There is a mental fatigue that kicks in, let a lone a physical one...

So if you are miserable stop watching go for a walk, blame the Argos, go sit and wait for the CPL and think of how great that league will be with a bunch of Ricketts and Dunns of the world.

Seattle made the playoffs and they were 15 or 16 points out in August in 2016 (I don't remember the number), just let that sink in, before you write off anyone. All any team needs is a few injuries and they are more screwed then we are

69Chevy396
07-05-2018, 07:44 AM
Holy f@$#ing shit... Fire Vanney, fire Bez... Blow up the team, get rid of our DP's..

Before everyone goes off the deep end lets look at TFC at one point 0 healthy CB, they are still without 2 starters in the back, Jozy gets hurt. Show me any bloody team in the MLS with this many injuries and tell me what place they would be.. Look at Seattle they are in the same boat with injuries. I have said this multiple time the players have essentially a maximum 3 months off over the past 2 years. There is a mental fatigue that kicks in, let a lone a physical one...

So if you are miserable stop watching go for a walk, blame the Argos, go sit and wait for the CPL and think of how great that league will be with a bunch of Ricketts and Dunns of the world.

Seattle made the playoffs and they were 15 or 16 points out in August in 2016 (I don't remember the number), just let that sink in, before you write off anyone. All any team needs is a few injuries and they are more screwed then we are

You are right. In MLS two or three outstanding players can easily make the difference. Columbus without Higuain. Atlanta without their DPs. Currently, TFC is playing without;
-the leagues top creative midfielder (Vasquez),
-two of the best defenders in MLS (Mavinga and Moor)
-the leagues most dynamic forward (Altidore)

Other important parts have been injured, are playing injured, or slowly recovering.

For me, losing Altidore and Mavinga, hurt the team more than anything. I notice in the TSN broadcasts, they rarely mention Mavinga, despite his playoff dominance last season.

C.Ronaldo
07-05-2018, 08:48 AM
Agreed

Mavinga is the key. He allows the team to push up.
Do we forget how many perfectly timed tackles he has made last year as the last man back?

C.Ronaldo
07-05-2018, 08:50 AM
I saw genuine effort, that is what I expect. But let me get this straight.

We are not playing well, and didn’t win on the road in 35 degree heat on astroturf, with four of our 7 best players missing, in a capped league, which means....

A bunch of people are done and not watching on TV anymore, or not watching at all....

Like it's “unacceptable “. A meal you send back at a restaurant.

This just tells me some of you guys didn’t understand “winning”, and you don’t understand “losing”.

not to mention quintero had the perfect game

Derko
07-05-2018, 08:53 AM
If they had played all game with the same urgency they played in the last 10 minutes, TFC could have won.

That is this year's story.

I said this before that both Zavaleta and Hagglund look like donkeys with cement boots out on the pitch, and look like they are going to fall over when the ball is at their feet, and I say it again, I know I will get others saying they are both serviceable CB. Not at this point.
I know Hagglund has score some nice goals, but fuck our defending is amateur. Our leadership is non existent.
Play with some fucking pride TFC.

C.Ronaldo
07-05-2018, 08:55 AM
2

Yes, we miss the outlet of Altidore but Hamilton is now providing about the same quality of hold up play as the rest of the league gets from its #3 forward. And we are seeing that in the amount of chances we are getting.

But...that defence.




Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.

Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.

Wow, great fight back lads, just came too short. Nice to see some kids playing & Giovinco get a goal from play. Shame about the defence but that seems to be the issue every game and probably won't be fixed until we get our two startng CB's back - maybe then we can have some fun & get some good results. Looking forward to the Voyageurs and some games against some rivals and some good soccer down at the lake with people in the stands.


perhaps the fwd issue from day one was to give the starts to Hamilton to build his confidence. Hamilton is showing good improvement this year despite the crappy season. Rickets was pretty much a waste but i can see why they used him.

pfk
07-05-2018, 09:28 AM
Analysis of TFC woeful defending last night: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1014668579223023618

TFC Tifoso
07-05-2018, 10:07 AM
imo there's something going on with this team's head(s)....

stat brought up last night was 16 of 32 goals against this year have come in the first 15 minutes of the game.....50% of goals in the first 17% of the game....that's crazy...

but this team did not stop fighting, and that is the only good thing I can say....

17 games played....17 to go......we will make the playoffs.....and that's what it's all about.....

whositwhatnow
07-05-2018, 10:47 AM
The game today was "lol".
I still enjoy it, as I have since day 1.
Winning is nice. But I just love soccer as a whole.

I concur, love of the game!

ensco
07-05-2018, 11:55 AM
Analysis of TFC woeful defending last night: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1014668579223023618

I don’t think Doyle has this play right.

I don’t think anyone should be automatically pressing Calvo there, when he gets the ball he already has time and space, pressing would make it worse. We are still OK.

Morrow jumps up because he thinks he can gamble, because Osorio has the man making the run. But Osorio is brutal on this play, just la-di-das it, gets totally beat.

It's giving up the ball in transition, then it's all on Osorio. Sorry Jonathan, we still love you.

C.Ronaldo
07-06-2018, 12:47 PM
I donít think Doyle has this play right.

I donít think anyone should be automatically pressing Calvo there, when he gets the ball he already has time and space, pressing would make it worse. We are still OK.

Morrow jumps up because he thinks he can gamble, because Osorio has the man making the run. But Osorio is brutal on this play, just la-di-das it, gets totally beat.

It's giving up the ball in transition, then it's all on Osorio. Sorry Jonathan, we still love you.

that's pretty deep for Osorio to be with a 5 man D. After tfc coughed it up, Osorio is to blame but Morgan should have notified him of the run or chase him down himself. There was no need for morrow to press up though.

MightyDM
07-06-2018, 09:40 PM
In a salary cap league, an organization like MLSE has to find ways to judiciously spend money off the pitch.

Last year the story with Jozy was "we've finally got his hamstrings where they need to be." They spent a lot of thought on how to keep those hammys healthy. So they're no strangers to this way of thinking.

We've never had a winter/spring like this before, and obviously our medical/training staff wasn't ready, nor were the players. (Altidore's bone chips being the exception, everything else is muscle tears or ligament strains)

Similarly, we've never had to face the winter with live grass before, and the pitch was pretty terrible in March and April.

If we're going to be a dynasty, we have to fix the issues that lead to injuries, not jettison the players who many here are now describing as "injury prone." And that requires money and thought, and the money is where we're allowed to spend it.

In the meantime, just get healthy and play well from August on. Oh, and win the V Cup.

Absolutely spot on post

MightyDM
07-06-2018, 10:08 PM
Analysis of TFC woeful defending last night: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1014668579223023618

1. That’s terrible on Oso and Morrow

2. We seem to be mentally tired

3. Management appears to have thought that they were smarter than everyone else. But just like the salary cap, they are the same, and this year things evened out ie replacing our RB who almost dies for us for an extra 700,000

4. Teams have figured out that the way to beat us is to press our CB’s who are poor with the ball, or put it over the top because they are slow

5. Zavaleta and Hagglund are good players but not good enough alone together.

6. Due to 4 and 5 above we needed a hold up player (Hamilton) but the coach chose not to use him. Without a hold up player our weaknesses are exploited.

7. The team had no rest and as a result has had significant injuries

8. This team had no rest and is mentally tired

9. There have been way too many muscular injuries. In fact, the idea that Nelsen ( fresh out of the EPL) was an idiot about training resulting in injuries and the Vanney regime had it all figured out is nonsense. In fact, serious questions need to be asked about why there are so many muscular injuries.There was a management smokescreen about this that has blinded us as supporters.

9. We won MLS and were so close to winning the Champions league.

i love this club. TFC!  TFC  TFC 

red-o
07-07-2018, 04:27 PM
Agree with most of your points especially 10.
i love this club. TFC!  TFC  TFC 


6. Due to 4 and 5 above we needed a hold up player (Hamilton) but the coach chose not to use him. Without a hold up player our weaknesses are exploited.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying - Hamilton started, and got a goal.

I do agree we needed a hold-up player, Hamilton hasn't done a great job of this so far.

Hope he gets another start tonight to see if he can pick it up - feel he hasn't had the chance he deserved over the last year.

MightyDM
07-07-2018, 08:40 PM
Agree with most of your points especially 10.


Am I misunderstanding what you're saying - Hamilton started, and got a goal.

I do agree we needed a hold-up player, Hamilton hasn't done a great job of this so far.

Hope he gets another start tonight to see if he can pick it up - feel he hasn't had the chance he deserved over the last year.

my points were really about the season as a whole. With respect to Hamilton, Vanney wouldnít play him and preferred to use VV as a forward. Tactically, that was an issue because it made it hard to release pressure if there was a high press without a hold up player.

For this game, I thought hamilton did ok. He is taking his chance.