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NK Toronto
05-26-2018, 05:29 PM
One third of the season is over and we are in 9th place, 7 points out of the last play-off spot. The team has been decimated by injuries, and it seems that whenever we got someone back, someone else goes down. We've dropped a lot of points at home, and 7 of our next 9 games are away. We can't score goals and our best striker is away for at least another month.

So if you are Bez & company what do you do? Can we chalk this up to no more than injuries and bad luck, and wait it out hoping the situation corrects itself when everyone gets healthy? Do you try and make some roster changes during the summer transfer window? Given a lack of TAM and the fact that we already have the highest payroll in the league is this even possible? Are the current problems solely due to injuries or are there other issues as well? Last year we won absolutely everything so maybe the desire to do it again isn't as strong amongst the players as a year ago? Our star forward wants a multi-year extension but he is 31 years old and his scoring pace has dropped off from 2 years ago. Do you give in to his demands, or move him when he still could garner a good return? Our key core players are in their 30's with their best playing days probably behind them. Do we keep the same group for another couple of years, or is it time to re-build with younger players.

The Canadian Championship will be starting soon. Do we go all in so we can have another run at CCL next spring? If we believe that the cause of our current injury situation was the CCL run then do we take a pass and field TFC II so that we can focus on league play next season?

Given where we are now, what would you do?

Blindside16
05-28-2018, 03:34 AM
This is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I believe that yes the problem is due to some bad luck and injuries. I have a hard time believing that there is any issues in the locker due to the fact that 75 - 90% of the team was there last year. If the issue was locker room drama surely it would have reared its head at some point last year. I think the only way we pick someone up at the window is if it is one of those can't possibly pass up instances. Sure teams will come knocking for Seba at the window but I don't think it is time to move him yet. I would be inclined during the transfer window to hold steady. We know what this team is capable of when healthy. Now if this current form continues to the end of the year, then I think we need to re-evaluate the entire roster during the offseason/winter transfer window.

As for the Canadian championship, this needs to be a high priority. I am not giving up on this season yet, but this team needs to salvage something and another run at the CCL would be a good start. I think maybe the early start might have played a part in the injuries, but I think the bigger culprit was the short off season. These guys went balls to the wall for 43 games (some more on international duty) and had only 40 - 45 days for an off season. We were spoiled and to a certain extent lucky last season with how everything came together.

This season is far from over, there is a lot of football to play. Have we dug ourselves a huge hole.... Absolutely. Can we get ourselves back out of it and into the playsoffs... Absolutely. If the injuries that we have had to deal had happened to any other club how do you think they would fare? What other club could possibly win games or take points with up to 7 starters out?

Red4ever
05-28-2018, 08:02 AM
I don't want to make a Concacaf run for another few years. IMO the tournament just doesn't have the prestige yet. If there is one thing that killed us, it was chasing that.

Win the Canadian championship for sure. But I don't care if play in the CCL again.

Joe Kool
05-28-2018, 08:28 AM
This is definitely down to injuries and the CCL run. If we had our full team for this MLS season we would be faring way better. Just have to ride it out I think. We have a good team when everyone is healthy so hopefully we get everyone back with no new injuries by midseason and if we can squeak into the playoffs with a full team I think we can still make another run. If we get into the playoffs in an injured state I don't think we have a chance....if we make the playoffs at all that is. I don't consider this one of those typical situations where a team wins the MLS Cup and don't make the playoffs the next year (if we don't make it, too early to tell though) because the teams that do that in the past were usually not decimated with injuries or had long CCL runs. Those teams just had a flat year the next year but our issue is not solely under-performing. We could use a few miracle strikes for Seba though which are few and far between these days.

TFC Tifoso
05-28-2018, 09:38 AM
Its all down to injuries imo.....totally, 100%.....7 points out isn't the end of the world.....yet....

Once we get healthy again, we will be dominant.

imo, this team played Dallas off the park on Friday, but had no finish.....if Jozy's in there we score 3....

but regardless of injuries, Vanney has to find a way to get Bradley back in the mid.

Mike_S
05-28-2018, 09:42 AM
imo, this team played Dallas off the park on Friday, but had no finish.....if Jozy's in there we score 3....



And that I'm afraid is the problem. As good as the team is, it has only one consistent finisher, who is frequently injured.

TFC Tifoso
05-28-2018, 09:46 AM
And that I'm afraid is the problem. As good as the team is, it has only one consistent finisher, who is frequently injured.

Welcome to MLS.....Jozy is great when he's in, but unfortunately, we're (most other teams in the league too) are not in a position to be stashing strikers in case of injury.

I'm really hoping the foot operation was mostly to do with the ankle injury he had last year, and its not something new....

Super
05-28-2018, 10:25 AM
The CCL definitely cost us points. Not only in terms of injuries, but also the games we basically had to drop because the best team had to be in Mexico. I'm NOT happy about having to make that choice, but it's par for the course. We need to get healthy and then make a run for it - then we'll have no problem making the playoffs. I'll be happy with 6th place. If we're healthy we can go on to win the whole thing again - but there will be no final at BMO this year.

ag futbol
05-28-2018, 10:44 AM
Its all down to injuries imo.....totally, 100%.....7 points out isn't the end of the world.....yet....

Once we get healthy again, we will be dominant.

imo, this team played Dallas off the park on Friday, but had no finish.....if Jozy's in there we score 3....

but regardless of injuries, Vanney has to find a way to get Bradley back in the mid.
Agreed, completely.

I would say some tweaks are needed but nothing is broken.

NK Toronto
06-02-2018, 11:33 PM
We are now in 10th place, 8 points out of a play-off spot. Still no time frame for the return of Jozy, Morrow or Mavinga, and it seems Delgado has fallen out of favour with Vanney. Tonight in Columbus has to be the low point of the season.

For me the focus now has to be getting healthy and trying to make a playoff run to salvage something from this season. Send out TFC II in the Cdn Championship and get eliminated in the 1st round. I don't want a repeat of whats happened this year in 2019 so I will take a pass on another CCL run.

tfcfans
06-03-2018, 06:30 AM
I agree that this is painful to watch and there is a confluence of events/reasons for it; some are the fault of injuries and going for it in CCL at the expense of the MLS season to start the year. Yes, having Bradley at CB through either injury or stubbornness is not a solution as we are seeing.....however despite the sh$@show that we’ve seen so far.....how many of us in 2015 would have taken 2016 and 2017 in a heartbeat even if it meant crapping out in 2018......if this years crapfest is the price I paid to get last years perfect season, as a fan of TFC, I’m willing to pay that price.....any Leafs fans not willing to trade a Cup in 2019 for a non-playoff team in 2020; I know I would.....winning championships takes more than just talent; it takes luck or kismet too - remember the “greatest team ever” could easily have been eliminated by NY or Clbs last year if a ball goes a few inches one way or the other.....

I watched the Marlies yesterday (sorry to those who have Ransom Pack flashbacks) in Game 1 of the Finals yesterday, on paper they are clearly more talented and despite playing crappy they pulled a game out of their ass and won; great teams, even championship teams need some luck too....(not trying to jinx them here).....whether it’s CCL, luck, karma, injuries - this year seems to have it working against us whereas last year was the opposite - am I disappointed and frustrated, sure I am, but I’ve been around since 2007 and very very few teams are going to challenge for a title three years in a row in the modern MLS (not the 10-12 team version of the league) - other than LAGs sustained excellence (3 in 4 years), how many have even made 3 straight Finals since Toronto entered the league (NE lost three but that was also before “modern MLS”)....will finishing 6th and losing in that one game change the narrative for everyone?!....2017s memories don’t get erased for me because of this year; just like Joe Carters HR didn’t get erased because of the 1994-2014 crappy Blue Jays......following sports is mostly failure and disappointment punctuated by rare moments of competency and glory......

Blizzard
06-03-2018, 06:55 AM
I don't want to make a Concacaf run for another few years. IMO the tournament just doesn't have the prestige yet. If there is one thing that killed us, it was chasing that.

Win the Canadian championship for sure. But I don't care if play in the CCL again.

It doesn't work that way of course. If we win the Voyageurs Cup, we are in the CCL. We could of course just play the reserves and throw the games I suppose.

Blizzard
06-03-2018, 06:57 AM
Agreed, completely.

I would say some tweaks are needed but nothing is broken.

Absolutely. With Mavinga and the other true defenders available again .... one day .... and Bradley as holding MF, (and Jozy back up front of course) there's no reason at all this team cannot go on a role. We don't have to finish first. We just need to make the play-offs ..... and look at the bright side. More road trips!

stevep
06-03-2018, 07:23 AM
Absolutely. With Mavinga and the other true defenders available again .... one day .... and Bradley as holding MF, (and Jozy back up front of course) there's no reason at all this team cannot go on a role. We don't have to finish first. We just need to make the play-offs ..... and look at the bright side. More road trips!

Latest outright odds as of June 2nd says we will make the playoffs.
we will finish either 5th or 6th, split between us and New England
Orlando and Chicago 7th and lower

given we may be healthy by playoff times. our probability of making it to the round of 4 by winning the one game playoff will be around 50% vs about 70% if we were in 3rd or 4th place.
if we win the one game playoff game we are all square with everybody again. No mls cup game in Toronto this year if we make it to the MLS cup

Red4ever
06-03-2018, 07:32 PM
It doesn't work that way of course. If we win the Voyageurs Cup, we are in the CCL. We could of course just play the reserves and throw the games I suppose.

For sure. I just mean the former is important to me, but everything after we hoist that cup should be met with casual indifference.

Fort York Redcoat
06-04-2018, 06:40 AM
For me the focus now has to be getting healthy and trying to make a playoff run to salvage something from this season. Send out TFC II in the Cdn Championship and get eliminated in the 1st round. I don't want a repeat of whats happened this year in 2019 so I will take a pass on another CCL run.

Fuck that I want them to win Vcup first.

And the CCL comes after the holy Pussplops anyway. No reason to throw a trophy game, one of the only meaningful derby like matches we have for ..."A CHANCE TO SQEAK INTO THE PLAYOFFS AND WIN IT ALL. THE CINDERELLA STORY OF A GENERATION...BLAH BLAH BLAH"

MartinUtd
06-04-2018, 01:14 PM
The absolute hubris of this teams management is on full display this year. Thinking they could half ass it after a great run last year coupled with the lack preparedness to make moves to bolster our razor thin back line has me wondering if all that Vanney and Bez praise was a tad premature. Yes they made good moves last year but what did we add coming into this season? More midfielders. Now we have our best mid playing centre back and a rotating of inexperience and journeymen at forward. They chose not to plan for this because everything was going swimmingly.

I'll reserve total judgement until we what mid-season dealings are done, but so far I'm not impressed by the lack of foresight.

OgtheDim
06-04-2018, 01:43 PM
Could they have anticipated this?

3 starting CB's out
Starting LWB out
Back up CB out.
Back up LWB out.

We are basically playing defence with 1 RWB, 1 guy who was expected to challenge for midfield, the 5th CB & our DM.

I get the "why don't we have a decent forward option" talk but defensively this has been a completely absurd mess.

ag futbol
06-04-2018, 02:03 PM
I don’t know if i’d say it was huberis. Hubris, to me, would have been doing nothing.

We tried to improve, but I think we put our chips down in the wrong areas, in some cases on the wrong players, and got some unexpected positive performances (Osorio, Telfer, Auro).

Further, while management has advertised in the past they were comfortable managing players with a history of injuries and things seemed to go their way, this year it has royally bit them in the ass. Coming in CB depth looked pretty good, the bigger question was how big would Moor’s drop off be with age. However, the fact these guys as a group can’t stay healthy appears to be the bigger concern.

It looks a little odd that we dropped money on two guys who are great defenders (Mavinga, VDV) but can’t really be a “boss” I’m the middle, when that now appears to be something we sorely lack when an aging Moor can’t be on the field.

woolly
06-04-2018, 02:53 PM
I agree that the only mistaken assumptions that were made by the FO was the reliability of Moor and the potential of Akatxe.

Neither of these were truly predictable, as Moor re-signed at the beginning of last year (if memory serves) and we we all on the Akatxe train when he was originally signed. All the other injuries were pretty much surprises, with the possible exception of Jozy, but we all thought we had that under control with his solid record from last year. The fact is that 3 of our starters are out with long term injuries that may not get better this season (Jozy, Mavinga and possibly Vazquez).

On the flip side, 4 of our non DP players have shown glimpses of long-term potential (Oso, VdeW, Auro and Tiefert) so although this year MAY already be a write off, there is still plenty to build on if things go south.

For my 2 cents.. I would suggest not getting too hung up on the MLS cup this year, as it's a tough hill to climb from this point. Focus on the CCL and another crack at the CONCACAF ring, which is still an unmet challenge for any team in MLS, and start planning for next year in terms of contracts that may need to be cut or modified.

NK Toronto
06-04-2018, 09:40 PM
Winning the Voyageurs Cup essentially means beating 2 of Ottawa, Montreal or Vancouver, not much of an accomplishment especially considering that Ottawa is more or less a semi-pro club. Even with their record breaking treble season in 2017 if TFC didn't win the MLS Cup there wouldn't have been a parade in downtown Toronto, nor would they be wearing a star on their jersey. The MLS Cup should remain the number one priority. Until there is a change in the format of the CCL to make it fair for MLS teams to compete this should be treated as a secondary tournament by club management.

NK Toronto
06-04-2018, 10:26 PM
Fuck that I want them to win Vcup first.

And the CCL comes after the holy Pussplops anyway. No reason to throw a trophy game, one of the only meaningful derby like matches we have for ..."A CHANCE TO SQEAK INTO THE PLAYOFFS AND WIN IT ALL. THE CINDERELLA STORY OF A GENERATION...BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Excuse my ignorance as I am new to the forum, but what the hell is "Pussplops"?

Brooker
06-05-2018, 02:07 AM
Excuse my ignorance as I am new to the forum, but what the hell is "Pussplops"?

I could be wrong but I believe it's an old, old wooden ship used in the Civil War era.

OgtheDim
06-05-2018, 06:37 AM
Winning the Voyageurs Cup essentially means beating 2 of Ottawa, Montreal or Vancouver, not much of an accomplishment ...

Where were you for this then?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jsqiQ9QdFM


If you think that's not an accomplishment to win two home & away series well then.....

Fort York Redcoat
06-05-2018, 10:50 AM
Winning the Voyageurs Cup essentially means beating 2 of Ottawa, Montreal or Vancouver, not much of an accomplishment especially considering that Ottawa is more or less a semi-pro club. Even with their record breaking treble season in 2017 if TFC didn't win the MLS Cup there wouldn't have been a parade in downtown Toronto, nor would they be wearing a star on their jersey. The MLS Cup should remain the number one priority. Until there is a change in the format of the CCL to make it fair for MLS teams to compete this should be treated as a secondary tournament by club management.

It's entirely up to you if you want to prioritize what the league tells you to.

It's more of an accomplishment to win the Supporters Shield so it's what I prioritize. I'm ok if no one wants to officially parade about it. We supporters march when we want to anyway.
It's more attractive winning the regional tournament against opponents that we may never play again then pretending it's a bigger deal to play an MLS team again. For me.
The Voyageurs Cup celebrates beating Canadian rivals to represent our nation in the region. Again, that's bigger to me and has barely any drawback to a pussplops run.


Excuse my ignorance as I am new to the forum, but what the hell is "Pussplops"?

And finally, welcome to the boards, NK. Pussplops is the term ingeniously invented to avoid the use of the word playoffs for superstitious reasons. I've adopted it full time. :)

Initial B
06-05-2018, 12:01 PM
Winning the Voyageurs Cup essentially means beating 2 of Ottawa, Montreal or Vancouver, not much of an accomplishment especially considering that Ottawa is more or less a semi-pro club. Even with their record breaking treble season in 2017 if TFC didn't win the MLS Cup there wouldn't have been a parade in downtown Toronto, nor would they be wearing a star on their jersey. The MLS Cup should remain the number one priority. Until there is a change in the format of the CCL to make it fair for MLS teams to compete this should be treated as a secondary tournament by club management.
Hey, that's pretty disrespectful. Ottawa at home beat TFC last year in CC play and was one of 6 total losses that season. Remember that.

NK Toronto
06-05-2018, 09:02 PM
Hey, that's pretty disrespectful. Ottawa at home beat TFC last year in CC play and was one of 6 total losses that season. Remember that.

No disrespect intended if you are an Ottawa Fury fan but TFC fielded a reserve line-up in the 2-1 Ottawa loss. The fact is that Ottawa is not an MLS calibre team, so TFC should be able to advance in a 2 game series against them. My point was that for me personally I don't place as much value in a Voyageurs Cup championship as I do in an MLS Cup, which I believe is a more difficult trophy to win.

There doesn't seem to be a consensus amongst TFC fans as to what they value the most, the Supporters Shield, the MLS Cup, Voyageurs Cup, or CCL. I am willing to wager however that those that place the most value on the Supporter's Shield are probably originally from the U.K. or Europe where the greatest emphasis is placed on finishing first in the league over the course of an entire season.

Fort York Redcoat
06-06-2018, 07:37 AM
My point was that for me personally I don't place as much value in a Voyageurs Cup championship as I do in an MLS Cup, which I believe is a more difficult trophy to win.

There doesn't seem to be a consensus amongst TFC fans as to what they value the most, the Supporters Shield, the MLS Cup, Voyageurs Cup, or CCL. I am willing to wager however that those that place the most value on the Supporter's Shield are probably originally from the U.K. or Europe where the greatest emphasis is placed on finishing first in the league over the course of an entire season.

Plus the fact Supporters had a part to play in the trophies themselves, both Supporters Shield and the Voyageurs Cup.

ensco
06-06-2018, 09:27 AM
Philadelphia

Fort York Redcoat
06-06-2018, 02:27 PM
Philadelphia

Amazing.

FootBallAZ
06-06-2018, 04:26 PM
Winning the supporters and championship was amazing.
Never thought much of the champions league.
But I would have to say the last 3 opponents those games were for me more intense than MLS playoffs . Quality of opponents, atmosphere, and coaching all played a part in the run which rivals our MLS cup run.

I'd say ECF comeback over Montreal or the 2017 finals were more intense.

But my girlfriend's family members had interest and all were watching the champions league opposed to the MLS cup finals, didn't ever hear about any one watching.

ensco
06-06-2018, 11:25 PM
We have more silverware to play for. That MLS Cup champion v Mexican champion game in September is the highlight of the second half calendar.

Necaxa will play Tigres for the Campeon de Campeones in July. I hope Tigres win, so we can see them again. What a great opponent.

Brooker
06-08-2018, 02:24 AM
Winning the Voyageurs Cup essentially means beating 2 of Ottawa, Montreal or Vancouver, not much of an accomplishment

Those Voyageurs Cup away legs are so much fun. It's fun to be the bad guy. I wouldn't trade being there for anything.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/8rSpRt.gif

Soccer Mum
06-08-2018, 02:02 PM
Let's see what happens in the next few games, otherwise it's time for a rebuild. Giovinco is replaceable, Altidore only plays for half a season.

Fort York Redcoat
06-09-2018, 09:21 AM
Let's see what happens in the next few games, otherwise it's time for a rebuild. Giovinco is replaceable, Altidore only plays for half a season.

Now this place feels like the Leafs thread.

Rebuilds, tanking elsewhere. Go Reds Go

Areathrasher
06-09-2018, 09:33 AM
We have more silverware to play for. That MLS Cup champion v Mexican champion game in September is the highlight of the second half calendar.

Necaxa will play Tigres for the Campeon de Campeones in July. I hope Tigres win, so we can see them again. What a great opponent.

It's Tigres v Santos Laguna

Auzzy
06-09-2018, 11:59 AM
Let's see what happens in the next few games, otherwise it's time for a rebuild. Giovinco is replaceable, Altidore only plays for half a season.


Now this place feels like the Leafs thread.

Rebuilds, tanking elsewhere. Go Reds Go

Maybe we can rebuild or trade some of our fans while we're at it. We deserve butter! :D