The Season Could Very Well Be Over Already

[James17930]

With tonight's loss, we've wasted too many of our vaunted 'games in hand,' and we're too far back of the leaders to assume any sort of realistic chance at finishing in the top 4 of the conference.

Why did this happen? Prioritizing the CCL and basically throwing away the Colorado and Houston games, and now having just way too many regular players injured to be as competitive as we need to be. Yes, we have good depth, but only if 1 or 2 guys have to fill in here and there; the lineup we played tonight just can't cut it (especially with VV going out again).

So what's the best we can hope for? That we can scrounge enough points together to at least stay in the playoff picture while everyone gets healthy; seems that will be around late July/early August. Then, even if we're back to full strength, it'll take them another month probably to get back into the groove, so if – and that's a big IF – that can happen, then maybe we can get hot in September and try to ride some momentum into the playoffs.

But if we lose any of the next few games, I think we're just totally finished. We might even be already.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I think if we'll play a lot better from now on, leaving everything on the field in every game, no matter who is available and who is not, we have a fighting chance for places 3-4 in the East.

Places 1-2?
Forget about it, would be a miracle if we would catch one of those.

IMO we'll finish 3rd - 5th in the East.

[denime]

26 games left to play,season over:facepalm:

[wopchop]

26 games left to play,season over:facepalm:
No kidding. Guys, there are still 78 pts on the table.

We also still have games in hand on plenty of teams ahead of us - two games in hand on Atlanta/NYCFC, 3 on Columbus, 2 on Montreal and 1 on Orlando/Chicago/Philadelphia/New England.

Personally, I think finishing 1-2 is highly unlikely, which is how I felt prior to beginning this season because of the CCL. But making the playoffs is totally doable. More than half of the conference qualifies for the playoffs!

[Initial B]

Let's see...
Through 8 games - 7 Points
Games remaining - 26
Assume 16 wins, 5 losses, 5 ties - 53 points
End of season total - 60 points
That should be enough to end up top 2-4. I'm not worrying right now. If LeBron proved anything, North American regular seasons don't mean that much, so long as you make the playoffs.

[Red CB Toronto]

26 games left to play,season over:facepalm:

Totally my sentiment, plus with a nice little World Cup break in June, this team can recharge, reload and get to where they need to be.

[C.Ronaldo]

win canadian championship, get to CCL and win it

thats what i want

[James17930]

26 games left to play,season over:facepalm:

We just lost to the worst team in the West - at home.

We were shut out by Columbus, at home.

We're currently missing more than half our starting 11.

How are we supposed to win our upcoming games?

[Red4ever]

https://ip2.i.lithium.com/b3f47d633d272f45559dc0833e5197787234776b/687474703a2f2f706572736570686f6e656d6167617a696e65 2e636f6d2f77702d636f6e74656e742f75706c6f6164732f32 3031342f30342f636f6d6963626f6f6b6775792e676966

Worst. Thread. Ever.

[InDa_110]

This is possibly the most mis-informed and maybe the worst thread in the history of these boards.

We were the much better team by miles last night, the game before against Philly, and the game before that against Chicago. And that is still with the entire starting back line injured!

Finished already? what games are you watching? by inches on 3 occasions we missed scoring goals.

[pfk]

Yeesh. Why are Toronto fans so fickle? Or is this a troll?

Ok, so we have lost a number of winnable games, but we have zero defensive starters due to injuries and now some fans are saying the season's done already? smh.

We have just over 3/4s of the regular season left with a lot those games with a full and healthy squad. It's a long season, we'll get back up there in contention.

[OgtheDim]

2018 is not 2017

We all wanted this season to be like last year. Its not.

But its still more fun then most other seasons we've had. And we are far from done.

[portu]

Not yet, but if we're sitting in a similar position come August then heads better start to roll.

[Cas87]

https://frinkiac.com/video/S08E12/bhUzh2A8Xu5_bOKGA6Wc1QKV47k=.gif
^^
PANIC!

Usual reaction when any team with even slight expectation (TFC, Raptors, Leafs, Jays a couple of years ago) do not live up to expectations after a few games.
I am with everyone else, there is a reason why last year was celebrated, its because years like that don't happen all the time.

We need to temper our expectations ...

We aren't going to get the Shield this year ... oh well (a couple of other trophies look nicer in the case at the training ground anyway)

Remember, we get into Champions League via Canadian Championship, not MLS honours. Next focus should be that (especially since it is coming just after the World Cup break).

We aren't going to break OUR points record ... No one else will this year either (world cup break, wear and tear on World Cup players with take a toll, we won't have that issue later)

And the most important thing in MLS .. PARITY ... Just make the playoffs and see what happens (of course prefer a home date if we have to play in the opening round but, it has been proven that getting in to the playoffs with a good run could mean good things).

Can we say the players could be better in their execution ... YES
But, stating at the beginning of May that we shouldn't bother caring about another 4-5 months of games is just out of their mind.

[Couchy81]

I will enjoy bumping this thread as we climb the standings :D

[jabbronies]

I think if we'll play a lot better from now on, leaving everything on the field in every game, no matter who is available and who is not, we have a fighting chance for places 3-4 in the East.

Places 1-2?
Forget about it, would be a miracle if we would catch one of those.

IMO we'll finish 3rd - 5th in the East.


Ya I agree with this.
For me personally - as nice as it was to win the Supporters Shield last year - it meant shit compared to winning the MLS Cup.

For me - the clubs priority should be:

1 - MLS Cup
2 - Canadian Championship
3 - CCL
4 - Supporters Shield

Until the league allows teams to build deeper teams (a.k.a Raise the Cap) - all 4 of those things is impossible.

[pfk]

Ya I agree with this.
For me personally - as nice as it was to win the Supporters Shield last year - it meant shit compared to winning the MLS Cup.

For me - the clubs priority should be:

1 - MLS Cup
2 - Canadian Championship
4 - CCL
3 - Supporters Shield

Until the league allows teams to build deeper teams (a.k.a Raise the Cap) - all 4 of those things is impossible.

The Supporters Shield is a nice bonus due to home field advantage in the playoffs, but yeah, the MLS Cup was the bee's knees.

BTW, did you mean CCL #3, then Supporters Shield #4?

[Canary10]

I think this is a legitimate thread, maybe a week or two premature though. Our next six matches we have NE away, Orlando home, FC Dallas home, Columbus away, Philadelphia away, DC home. There are a few tough ones in there - we rarely do well in NE, Columbus looks decent, Orlando decent. What would we need to put this thread away? at least 12 points? 15 points?

[jabbronies]

The Supporters Shield is a nice bonus due to home field advantage in the playoffs, but yeah, the MLS Cup was the bee's knees.

BTW, did you mean CCL #3, then Supporters Shield #4?

ya that's what I meant

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I think this is a legitimate thread, maybe a week or two premature though. Our next six matches we have NE away, Orlando home, FC Dallas home, Columbus away, Philadelphia away, DC home. There are a few tough ones in there - we rarely do well in NE, Columbus looks decent, Orlando decent. What would we need to put this thread away? at least 12 points? 15 points?

13 points.
Win all 3 home games, win at Philly and draw at NE or Columnus and lose at NE or Columbus.
But this would seem very hard to do.

[C.Ronaldo]

For me Canadian champ is too priority.

Its way more embarassing to lose that after going to PKs in the ccl finals

[cmonyoureds]

This cannot seriously be a real talking point?????

[ensco]

Boycotting this thread

(oh wait)

[Globetrotter]

Seriously. The sky is falling. Season is toast in early May when we have the best team in the league.

The goal is to with the Canadian Championship (to get back to Champions League) and to win MLS cup. Supporters shield really isn't all that special. Without looking it up, who won supporters shield in 2008? Nobody cares. You care about who won the MLS Cup.

If we dont win the shield meh.

We can win the Canadian Championship.
We can win the MLS cup with the team we have. First step is getting into the playoffs, which all you need is 6th place.

We are 7 points back with 1 game in hand from 6th place. It's May 10th.

It's not very much a supporters comment to say season is done.

[105]

Last year our start wasn't the greatest either. We had 7 points in the first 6 games.

Just make the playoffs. If the team is healthy going into the playoffs, they can beat anyone.

[fergiejr]

One starting CB comes back, Bradley goes back in the middle, this team is COMPLETELY different. We miss Bradley in the middle - I would argue more than we miss Jozy up front.

[paul-collins]

This team is trash and you should stop watching. Give me your tickets and I'll dispose of them.

[BendItLikeGio]

this is a JOKE!! If you got no faith, please leave your tickets at the closest gate and never show up again. Yes looking at it right now, not great, a few W changes everything. We havent played NYCFC, Atlanta, Orlando, NYRB yet in the season which easily can change alot. I put a small excel projection fun, i so should do some over/under haha... However, looking at it, couple wins coming up can really change alot. Potential(is just how many points possible at end of season), Potential2(is with the trending PPG for now, how much they can get end of season). we need as a team and fan base just take everygame 1 step at a time, and not look at the end stage yet.

Eastern Conf


Club
MP
W
D
L
Pts
Potential
PPG
Potential2


Atlanta
10
7
1
2
22
94
2.200
75


NYCFC
10
6
2
2
20
92
2.000
68


Orlando
9
6
1
2
19
94
2.111
72


Columbus
11
5
3
3
18
87
1.636
56


NYRB
8
5
0
3
15
93
1.875
64


New England
9
4
2
3
14
89
1.556
53


Chicago
9
3
2
4
11
86
1.222
42


Montreal
10
3
0
7
9
81
0.900
31


Philadelphia
9
2
2
5
8
83
0.889
30


TFC
8
2
1
5
7
85
0.875
30


DC United
7
1
2
4
5
86
0.714
24



West Conf


Club
MP
W
D
L
Pts
Potential
PPG
Potential2


Sporting KC
11
7
2
2
23
92
2.091
71


LAFC
9
6
1
2
19
94
2.111
72


Vancouver
10
4
1
5
13
85
1.300
44


FC Dallas
8
3
4
1
13
91
1.625
55


Minnesota
10
4
0
6
12
84
1.200
41


Houstan
8
3
2
3
11
89
1.375
47


Portland
8
3
2
3
11
89
1.375
47


LA Galaxy
9
3
1
5
10
85
1.111
38


Real Salt
9
3
1
5
10
85
1.111
38


Colorado
8
2
2
4
8
86
1.000
34


Seattle
8
2
2
4
8
86
1.000
34


San Jose
8
1
2
5
5
83
0.625
21

[Captain]

For sure the sky has not fallen yet. The flounders won the cup in 2016 after being last in the league at the mid season point. I'm totally fine with giving up any hope of the supporters shield but I want to win the Canadian Championship, the MLS Cup and have another very deep run in CCL.






Unfortunately we're not doing any of that without our defensive line back. We're not getting any straight answers on the nature of all the injuries. Word was that Altidore had possibly another hamstring issue then we hear he's had foot surgery, Morrow was good enough to play half a game and then he's no where to be found. Word is that Mavinga needs surgery. Why are they putting this off? Just have it done and get healthy. Moor's out long term and with his age it may be hard to come back from this injury. As for Vasques, I'm trying not to think about this one. We can win games without him but we're better with him. No up-date on Zavaleta? Hagglunds great when healthy but we all know that will be short lived.





I can look at the big picture. Yes we have time. Maybe we've got most back healthy for July. Great, lot's of time still. We've got 8 games in July. If they're not back we run the risk of injuring everyone else. If they are all back maybe we push someone too fast. I wouldn't want to be Vanney making these decisions.

All this negativity put aside, I still think the team has the mental stamina to get through this and make the playoffs.

[Captain]

Not sure how I put the boxes on that post.

[Canary10]

this is a JOKE!! If you got no faith, please leave your tickets at the closest gate and never show up again. Yes looking at it right now, not great, a few W changes everything. We havent played NYCFC, Atlanta, Orlando, NYRB yet in the season which easily can change alot. I put a small excel projection fun, i so should do some over/under haha... However, looking at it, couple wins coming up can really change alot. Potential(is just how many points possible at end of season), Potential2(is with the trending PPG for now, how much they can get end of season). we need as a team and fan base just take everygame 1 step at a time, and not look at the end stage yet.

Eastern Conf


Club
MP
W
D
L
Pts
Potential
PPG
Potential2


Atlanta
10
7
1
2
22
94
2.200
75


NYCFC
10
6
2
2
20
92
2.000
68


Orlando
9
6
1
2
19
94
2.111
72


Columbus
11
5
3
3
18
87
1.636
56


NYRB
8
5
0
3
15
93
1.875
64


New England
9
4
2
3
14
89
1.556
53


Chicago
9
3
2
4
11
86
1.222
42


Montreal
10
3
0
7
9
81
0.900
31


Philadelphia
9
2
2
5
8
83
0.889
30


TFC
8
2
1
5
7
85
0.875
30


DC United
7
1
2
4
5
86
0.714
24



West Conf


Club
MP
W
D
L
Pts
Potential
PPG
Potential2


Sporting KC
11
7
2
2
23
92
2.091
71


LAFC
9
6
1
2
19
94
2.111
72


Vancouver
10
4
1
5
13
85
1.300
44


FC Dallas
8
3
4
1
13
91
1.625
55


Minnesota
10
4
0
6
12
84
1.200
41


Houstan
8
3
2
3
11
89
1.375
47


Portland
8
3
2
3
11
89
1.375
47


LA Galaxy
9
3
1
5
10
85
1.111
38


Real Salt
9
3
1
5
10
85
1.111
38


Colorado
8
2
2
4
8
86
1.000
34


Seattle
8
2
2
4
8
86
1.000
34


San Jose
8
1
2
5
5
83
0.625
21




Your Potential2 column proves the season is over.

[CountryoverClub]

But if we lose any of the next few games, I think we're just totally finished. We might even be already.

lol...are you mad? :facepalm::facepalm:This is MLS. All we have to do is make the playoffs..

[shwade]

Supporters shield unlikely but who cares.
This team once in the playoffs can knock off the rest on their way to MLS cup and REpeat. We dont need to be top 3 this isn't Europe.

[Bellzy]

Oh look another doom & gloom topic... Should I stick around for General Woolfe’s comments or does his negativity only get spewed in match threads?

[Richard]

This thread man.

https://media.tenor.com/images/58eba467f8a5d81b6ee8f2517d528fe6/tenor.gif

[James17930]

Wow. You guys think I'm overreacting, but I think many of you are being way too optimistic. Plus, as usual, no one seemed to bother reading this part of my post:

So what's the best we can hope for? That we can scrounge enough points together to at least stay in the playoff picture while everyone gets healthy; seems that will be around late July/early August. Then, even if we're back to full strength, it'll take them another month probably to get back into the groove, so if – and that's a big IF – that can happen, then maybe we can get hot in September and try to ride some momentum into the playoffs.

But if we lose any of the next few games, I think we're just totally finished. We might even be already.

I know we had a slow start last year, but the major difference is that we were relatively healthy then. It took the guys some time to get warmed up, but they were all doing it together. Right now we have just way too many guys injured to hope to be competitive game-in, game-out. Everyone keeps saying 'Bradley is a revelation' at CB, but c'mon, can we really think that's a good thing mid-term, or even short-term?

And do you guys really think I want us to fail? Obviously not. I'm just responding to what I'm seeing and what I'm feeling watching this team at the moment. Sure, Seattle only had 2 shots on net, but they scored with those shots. Our attack, however, seemed boring and anemic; without Jozy, we had no hold-up play at all, and it was way too easy for Seattle to stifle our ball movement by just putting everyone behind the ball. Teams have learned how to play us, and without all our big guns to be really creative and change things up, any decently organized team can handle us fairly professionally.

And think about this – what's our record away at NE? We pretty much have to expect a loss on Sat, right? And then again, almost all our 'games in hand' will be losses.

We are a better team when we play desperately, and I know it's early-ish in the season, but at this point we need to get a bit of desperation into our game or using all these second-stringers just isn't going to work.

[Auzzy]

Not sure how I put the boxes on that post.

Now if we all can learn about that, something truly useful will have come out of this thread!

Actually the boxes are there because you turned that text into a table, with 3 rows and one column.

[TheSloanRanger]

MLS cup on the road this year. That's all.

[ensco]

If we are 10 points out of the playoffs in August, I will still bet money that we will make the top six.

Who do you think wants to play us in the playoffs?

[James17930]

If we are 10 points out of the playoffs in August, I will still bet money that we will make the top six.

Who do you think wants to play us in the playoffs?

Well, the way things are going now, I certainly wouldn't want to have to play Atlanta in the first round.

The main point I'm trying to make with this thread is that we can't compete if we have this many injuries, and the longer it takes us to get back to full health the further we may slip out of the race, to the point where we may not be able to recover.

[denime]

Not sure how I put the boxes on that post.

But it looks sexy and important at the same time.:D

[Blindside16]

I agree that the shield is most likely out of reach now, but the season is over we are done???? Come on. You need to look no further than the 2016 Seattle team to realise what a joke statement this is. Going into August Seattle was dead last in the West (it might have even been the league) and they managed to put it together and win a trophy. To declare a season over just barely 2 months in? That is ludicrous. With the depth we have, this team is fully capable of ripping off a long win streak. To throw in the towel and declare this season a failure and we are done makes you appear to be a fair weather fan. This team will mesh and will go on a run. That I am sure of

[OgtheDim]

If there is one thing our long sojourn in mediocrity taught TFC supporters, its how this league works. For years, we were out of it by June. That meant that we were sitting there watching how other teams managed to make it into the playoffs. Heck, the one time we came close we seem to tie our way into contention rather then win our way. Its a unique perspective that maybe now only Philly supporters have - never were good teaches you a lot.


This doesn't feel like back then. Our quality levels are not way below other teams - when as healthy as most teams are, we are the best & most balanced team in the league.

Things will not continue as they have been.

[ensco]

Well, the way things are going now, I certainly wouldn't want to have to play Atlanta in the first round.

The main point I'm trying to make with this thread is that we can't compete if we have this many injuries, and the longer it takes us to get back to full health the further we may slip out of the race, to the point where we may not be able to recover.


The single game knockout for teams 3-6 is rough justice in MLS, but it may be that at full strength, we might have finished third anyway. Top 4 is the objective, we want that game at BMO.

We got lucky last year and avoided Atlanta and NYCFC. I would expect that the road will include those teams this year, no matter where we finish.

Home field advantage isn’t that big a deal in two leg ties - every one of the Mexican teams had it.

[ScarboroughRed]

The single game knockout for teams 3-6 is rough justice in MLS, but it may be that at full strength, we might have finished third anyway. Top 4 is the objective, we want that game at BMO.

We got lucky last year and avoided Atlanta and NYCFC. I would expect that the road will include those teams this year, no matter where we finish.

Home field advantage isn’t that big a deal in two leg ties - every one of the Mexican teams had it.

Agreed. We have to take out Atlanta and NYCFC eventually. The hope is a top 4 finish.

No away stadium will faze this team after playing at El Volcan, Azteca and Akron. None at all.

[OgtheDim]

...
No away stadium will faze this team after playing at El Volcan, Azteca and Akron. None at all.

People were saying last season "Just wait until you get in front of all those people in Atlanta"

Well yes, about that.....

https://i.imgur.com/fLjUYFx.jpg

[TFC1986]

Will get playoffs. Maybe in one of the last 2 spots is my guess.

[James17930]

If there is one thing our long sojourn in mediocrity taught TFC supporters, its how this league works. For years, we were out of it by June. That meant that we were sitting there watching how other teams managed to make it into the playoffs. Heck, the one time we came close we seem to tie our way into contention rather then win our way. Its a unique perspective that maybe now only Philly supporters have - never were good teaches you a lot.


This doesn't feel like back then. Our quality levels are not way below other teams - when as healthy as most teams are, we are the best & most balanced team in the league.

Things will not continue as they have been.

Yes, but there are also more teams now ... but anyway, I certainly hope we do turn it around.

[barticusz]

I feel like the only suitable response to this thread is... "are you dumb brother!?"

[Fort York Redcoat]

Thread: We Could Have Our Worst Thread of the Year Chosen Already

:scarf:

[ag futbol]

Thread: We Could Have Our Worst Thread of the Year Chosen Already

:scarf:
This still doesn’t top 150 pages of arguing if Earl Cochrane forgot to fax the paperwork for Dero’s training stint with Celtic. All timer

[DOMIN8R]

I'm glad this thread was started. It sparked an interesting and lively discussion, say nothing of the pile on animosity.

[James17930]

I'm glad this thread was started. It sparked an interesting and lively discussion, say nothing of the pile on animosity.

More the latter than the former, unfortunately.

But such is the internet.

[Oldtimer]

This thread reminds me of the Vanney "deathwatch" thread.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/BenBaer89/status/995477163200704513

Basically this. It's not over yet at all, but the margin for error is shrinking.

[ensco]

:lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5:

[InDa_110]

:lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5::lurk5:

Lol! Your earlier post in the other thread was the funniest post in 10 plus years imo

[James17930]

https://twitter.com/BenBaer89/status/995477163200704513

Basically this. It's not over yet at all, but the margin for error is shrinking.

But how are we supposed to achieve even that with the players we have available?

We're going to have to start getting guys back pronto. Plus now Gio is going to be suspended ...

[molenshtain]

This is hilarious. Let's relax. We can probably rule out a first round bye, but other than that we're still very well in it. Seattle was in a wors position last season (maybe it was the year before) and a later point in the season and still made the final.

Guys will get healthy. We'll get those nice summer home games that we always seem to dominate. We'll be fine.

[stevep]

I was thinking about this this week.

what is happening now is perfectly logical and makes total sense

here is the starting lineup vs Tigres

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2018-03-07-toronto-fc-vs-tigres-uanl/lineup

when you put this lineup on the field you beat the best team in Mexico, and you actually dominate them.


when you put this lineup on the field against Seattle this is what you get a 2-1 loss

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2018-05-09-toronto-fc-vs-seattle-sounders-fc/lineup

its very simple to understand,

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wow. You guys think I'm overreacting, but I think many of you are being way too optimistic. Plus, as usual, no one seemed to bother reading this part of my post:

So what's the best we can hope for? That we can scrounge enough points together to at least stay in the playoff picture while everyone gets healthy; seems that will be around late July/early August. Then, even if we're back to full strength, it'll take them another month probably to get back into the groove, so if – and that's a big IF – that can happen, then maybe we can get hot in September and try to ride some momentum into the playoffs.

But if we lose any of the next few games, I think we're just totally finished. We might even be already.

I know we had a slow start last year, but the major difference is that we were relatively healthy then. It took the guys some time to get warmed up, but they were all doing it together. Right now we have just way too many guys injured to hope to be competitive game-in, game-out. Everyone keeps saying 'Bradley is a revelation' at CB, but c'mon, can we really think that's a good thing mid-term, or even short-term?

And do you guys really think I want us to fail? Obviously not. I'm just responding to what I'm seeing and what I'm feeling watching this team at the moment. Sure, Seattle only had 2 shots on net, but they scored with those shots. Our attack, however, seemed boring and anemic; without Jozy, we had no hold-up play at all, and it was way too easy for Seattle to stifle our ball movement by just putting everyone behind the ball. Teams have learned how to play us, and without all our big guns to be really creative and change things up, any decently organized team can handle us fairly professionally.

And think about this – what's our record away at NE? We pretty much have to expect a loss on Sat, right? And then again, almost all our 'games in hand' will be losses.

We are a better team when we play desperately, and I know it's early-ish in the season, but at this point we need to get a bit of desperation into our game or using all these second-stringers just isn't going to work.

Well since we get another week of this thread I'll bite:

It's not your content as much as your thread title and definition of a season. It infers there's nothing left to see if we're not going to win everything, or at least the SS, which would most likely be found out first.

That's why most are responding to so flippantly.

I want a win streak to get back on track for a back to back SS but the season won't be over with Vcup still coming and there's pussplops for people.

Hang in there before you shut off the monitor on the entire season. And maybe keep the pessimism in game thread talks and you wouldn't see this kind of response to a dread thread this early in the season. :thumbsup::scarf:

[OgtheDim]

Murph said it best last night

https://twitter.com/murphy_malone26/status/995490375266656256

[ensco]

You know when I am going to care about the standings?

After the WC break. Red Bulls, July 1. We should have most everyone back. New pitch. Playoff bad blood hangover.

Just tell me what it will take to get to 6th and 4th in the east that day. I don’t care if we are 20 points back. You watch. It’ll be game on then.

[Oldtimer]

You know when I am going to care about the standings?

After the WC break. Red Bulls, July 1. We should have most everyone back. New pitch. Playoff bad blood hangover.

Just tell me what it will take to get to 6th and 4th in the east that day. I don’t care if we are 20 points back. You watch. It’ll be game on then.

A very common sense response.

Unfortunately the TFC fanbase is filled with so many who were conditioned by years of failure to develop "Post TFC Stress Disorder." Rational thinking would say that all that unbelievable failure year after year was under previous administrations who were almost completely cleared out by Tim L and the current TFC is unrelated to the old TFC, but fear isn't usually rational.

[Voodooman]

A very common sense response.

Unfortunately the TFC fanbase is filled with so many who were conditioned by years of failure to develop "Post TFC Stress Disorder." Rational thinking would say that all that unbelievable failure year after year was under previous administrations who were almost completely cleared out by Tim L and the current TFC is unrelated to the old TFC, but fear isn't usually rational.

I would say this is more of a Toronto thing then a TFC thing in particular, but yes the fanbase rides a trophy or bust attitude. Yes things aren't in the right state right now but neither is our team, the WC will give our team a much needed break to recuperate.

[stevep]

fyi: according to oddsmakers the latest outright odds have us a solid 3rd or 4th place finish.

http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/usa/mls/outrights/

Atlanta, NYCFC 1st and 2nd (interchangeable)
TFC, NYRB 3rd and 4th (interchangeable)
Orlando, Columbus 5th and 6th (interchangeable)

also note: pretty good odds for a TFC victory on Friday

[Chevy]

Let's all look on the bright side here - we will veryt likely play on the road in the MLS Cup Final. Epic Road Trip.

[Red4ever]

fyi: according to oddsmakers the latest outright odds have us a solid 3rd or 4th place finish.

http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/usa/mls/outrights/

Atlanta, NYCFC 1st and 2nd (interchangeable)
TFC, NYRB 3rd and 4th (interchangeable)
Orlando, Columbus 5th and 6th (interchangeable)

also note: pretty good odds for a TFC victory on Friday

Follow the money.

[Voodooman]

Let's all look on the bright side here - we will veryt likely play on the road in the MLS Cup Final. Epic Road Trip.

I already like the sound of this!

[Tdot_LFC]

Another month or so like this past month or so and it won’t be a joke anymore.

[Red4ever]

This Thread Could Very Well Be Over Already too.

But we all keep bumping it.

[CBTFC]

We've been without any of our starting CB's, no Jozy, guys playing out of position.

We can easily right this ship the closer we get to our "regular" starting 11.

Man games lost to injury is such an overlooked stat.

[Redcoe15]

After last night's victory, can we please close this thread?

[Canary10]

After last night's victory, can we please close this thread?

Not yet. Not yet.

[Oldtimer]

After last night's victory, can we please close this thread?

If nobody posts, it will go away of its own accord.

[Red4ever]

Nobody post in here.

[Blkndkr]

Okay. No more posts. Got it.
Nobody post in here.

[Carter]

Nobody post in here.


Okay. No more posts. Got it.

No more? Ok, I think I understand.. :troll::troll:

[Canary10]

You’re saying no more posts? Do I have that right?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

This thread will go away by itself, if no more posts? :flare:

[Shakes McQueen]

You know when I am going to care about the standings?

After the WC break. Red Bulls, July 1. We should have most everyone back. New pitch. Playoff bad blood hangover.

Just tell me what it will take to get to 6th and 4th in the east that day. I don’t care if we are 20 points back. You watch. It’ll be game on then.

Yep. Focus on getting healthy, accept that we are unlikely to have another record-breaker of a season, and look toward the MLS Cup.

But man, saying the season "might already be over" ten days into May, is just absurdity.

[JonO]

Pretty sure Seattle had the same number of points (maybe 1 less) after the same number of games last year. This is the beauty of MLS.

[Kaz]

Pretty sure Seattle had the same number of points (maybe 1 less) after the same number of games last year. This is the beauty of MLS.

Yep Seattle had 10 points after 10 Games... DC had 11 and LA had 12.

It isn't an indicator of anything. we could turn it around or we could continue to play badly and allow goals in the first 10 minutes. Or the boys could give their heads a shake and we can turn it around. Time will tell...

They should never have been allowed to get into the mentality the have been in since basically the Colorado Home game back in February.

[DinamoTFC]

Pretty sure Seattle had the same number of points (maybe 1 less) after the same number of games last year. This is the beauty of MLS.

This is true. However the east is much more competitive and stronger than the west is.

[sidvan]

This thread will go away by itself, if no more posts? :flare:
This is still true

[Red4ever]

This is still true

What is? Explain it to me via post.

[sidvan]

What is? Explain it to me via post.

This is still true - it will die, if no more posts.

[Red4ever]

This is still true - it will die, if no more posts.

Excellent post this! The thread will die in an absence of posts!

[ensco]

Can we rename this the logical paradox thread?

The next sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.

[portu]

I think we're in the middle of pulling a Portland.

[notthesun]

7 of our next 9 are on the road and we've dropped a ton of home games.

We're chasing 6th, no better than that. And I'd say the odds are against us at this point.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure Portland had this many injuries. But.... I think we're on the same trajectory. It ain't over but it's getting less likely.

[DOMIN8R]

James....... you have now been redeemed. I will now address you as the Amazing Kreskin.

It's hard to imagine that our best days are behind us. My prejudice aside. Alas.

Cue Shakespeare.

[backbeat]

We're making the playoffs, we're going to win the Canadian Championship and we're going to will the MLS cup - PERIOD...

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I think if we'll play a lot better from now on, leaving everything on the field in every game, no matter who is available and who is not, we have a fighting chance for places 3-4 in the East.

Places 1-2?
Forget about it, would be a miracle if we would catch one of those.

IMO we'll finish 3rd - 5th in the East.

Yeah, I need to correct this post.
We have no fucking chance for the 3rd spot, even if we would play from now on better than we've done it in the last season... which of course is impossible.

IMO we'll finish 4th - 6th in the East.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Odds for this thread:

- to not go away in the next 22 days: -310
- to go away in the next 22 days: +300

[stevep]

if we get in the playoffs all we got to do is win that one game to get to the round of 4. then the season meant nothing because at that point we have the same shot as nyrb, atlanta or nycfc
it is important to finish 1 or 2 because you eliminate the one game playoff but if you can get by that one game the season is even for everybody

it really is a weird thing this mls league
jsut get in

[ensco]

11 games played. 23 to go.

[James17930]

11 games played. 23 to go.

And right now we're at a PPG rate of 0.91, which projects out to ~30 points total for the season. Last year NYRB were the 6th place team with 50 points.

And now after the Dallas game we've picked up even more injuries.

I really, really, really hope we find a way to turn this around somehow, but I'm really, really, really worried that we've just dug ourselves too deep of a hole already. Again, I can't stress enough how much I want them to prove me wrong. I wasn't trying to be a dick by starting this thread; I was simply responding to what I saw as a lot of negative characteristics coming together at the same time and simply trying to point them out.

I think the main thing now is that everyone with the team has to realize this and drop the 'well, it's not danger time yet' mentality and realize that yes, it is danger time, and they need to start playing for their lives.

Conversely, they may decide to basically write this season off, get a high draft pick and start clean next year. Or just focus everything on the Canadian Championship. We'll have to wait and see.

[OgtheDim]

Our PPG isn't going to stay this bad.

[James17930]

Our PPG isn't going to stay this bad.

One would think so, but look at how many points we've dropped at home so far ... it's worrying to say the least.

And to get into the playoffs it seems we're going to need at least a PPG of 1.8 - 2.0 the rest of the way. That's double what we have now. Can we turn things around to that great a degree? I hope so, but like I said, it's worrisome.

[glaze]

We made the MLS cup back to back. A drop was likely. This has been frustrating but it kinda makes sense.
That said, if we win CCL then we're back in the concacaf hunt next winter.
It isn't all over yet.
But the MLS window is closing.....

[ensco]

Seattle were something like 5-9-2 on July 10 in 2016.

[James17930]

Seattle were something like 5-9-2 on July 10 in 2016.

Then we've got to go on a similar sort of tear as they did. Didn't they make a big mid-season signing that year which helped to turn things around?

[ensco]

Then we've got to go on a similar sort of tear as they did. Didn't they make a big mid-season signing that year which helped to turn things around?

Yes. Lodeiro.

Our situation is different. Injuries.

[ag futbol]

Remi Garde death watch is on. I’m just waiting for a “worst team in the world” quote from Piatti

[ensco]

Remi Garde death watch is on. I’m just waiting for a “worst team in the world” quote from Piatti

Saputo put Piatti on the market last week. I expect him to be on Atlanta mid summer (assuming they sell one of their DPs after the World Cup)

[Fort York Redcoat]

Conversely, they may decide to basically write this season off, get a high draft pick and start clean next year.

Maybe in MLS 1.0 but not likely in todays league. Thankfully our league doesn't work that way. Fuck tanking. It's terrible in any sport.

[noimpactinmtl]

The only reason why tanking exists in the big four are incentives to get superstar talent on the cheap and under control.

NHL, NBA and NFL all have potential to get you a superstar talent with a high pick. MLB, the bonus slot from a high draft pick ensures you have more money to sign difficult picks from going to college.

MLS Superdraft is a joke because the best talent are either raised in the academy or poached by big clubs.

[James17930]

Maybe in MLS 1.0 but not likely in todays league. Thankfully our league doesn't work that way. Fuck tanking. It's terrible in any sport.

I agree. I don't want to see that either.

[OgtheDim]

Management doesn't tank in MLS but we've seen teams tank on management; it might just be happening in Seattle.

[ag futbol]

Management doesn't tank in MLS but we've seen teams tank on management; it might just be happening in Seattle.
In Soviet Montreal, management tanks you:

@RickMoffat
Bluntest postgame quote I may have ever seen: "lack of skill, talent and willpower..." Remi Garde. #IMFC #MLS

Seriously though, i’m kind of enjoying this, minus Raheem being stuck in that hell hole.

[Tdot_LFC]

This thread angered some people so. I hope the club didn’t take the stumbling start with as much complacency as some fans. I mean, ya it’s tough sledding with the abnormal amount of injuries, but the injuries included, there’s were definitely early indications that this season could turn out to be a dog fight rather than coasting to another shield.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This thread will be ridiculous until the last day of the season.

[OgtheDim]

Its kinda replaced the Vanney out thread from 2014-2016.


**********

We better kick ass in the Voyageurs.

[NK Toronto]

Its kinda replaced the Vanney out thread from 2014-2016.


**********

We better kick ass in the Voyageurs.

Not for me. I'll take a pass on another CCL run given what its done to our 2018 MLS Season. Send out TFC II and get knocked out in the 1st round. Instead focus on getting guys back and healthy so something can be salvaged out of this season. If TFC misses the play-offs the narrative written won't be about a team decimated by injuries. Instead it will be how we were a one hit wonder.

[TFC1986]

If we don't make playoffs. The original poster deserves a free night of drinks on us. I even said TFC will probably get one of the last 2 playoff spots. And that is looking grim. Still not as optimistic as people say 3rd or 4th spot at least.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Not for me. I'll take a pass on another CCL run given what its done to our 2018 MLS Season. Send out TFC II and get knocked out in the 1st round. Instead focus on getting guys back and healthy so something can be salvaged out of this season. If TFC misses the play-offs the narrative written won't be about a team decimated by injuries. Instead it will be how we were a one hit wonder.

Partially for me.

Yes, we need to win the Voyageurs, and make the playoffs somehow. Just squeeze in...
But next year send a TFC C team to the first 2 games of the CONCACAF, and go out with an aggregate score of 0-6.

I do not fucking care any more about CONCACAF Champs league, until it remains a shockingly ridiculous competition IMO (see all it's stupid house rules and that is stronly contorsioned in the favour of the Mexican teams, because the time of the year it is played).

[Blizzard]

Its kinda replaced the Vanney out thread from 2014-2016.


**********

We better kick ass in the Voyageurs.

I agree. We need a cup. I don't agree with this taking a dive stuff I'm hearing from too many others. In fact, I wish the CCL would go back to the group format (which it will not be doing) as I loved having that kind of competition. I much prefer to MLS. It had intrigue. For me, there is nothing worse than having to play another MLS side in the CCL.

[NK Toronto]

I agree. We need a cup. I don't agree with this taking a dive stuff I'm hearing from too many others. In fact, I wish the CCL would go back to the group format (which it will not be doing) as I loved having that kind of competition. I much prefer to MLS. It had intrigue. For me, there is nothing worse than having to play another MLS side in the CCL.


Sure, everyone would love to see the team do well in both the CCL and the MLS Season. But I don't believe its possible. The way the CCL tournament is currently set-up its clearly stacked in favour of Mexican teams. CCL plays begins in February when MLS teams are still in training. The entire tournament is condensed over only 2 months meaning you are playing CCL matches mid-week followed by MLS games on the weekend so you don't have sufficient recovery time. You are playing a lot of games in March so the fields are going to be in horrible shape which further contributes to leg injuries. Plus given our geographical position relative to Mexico you are looking at 4 and 5 hour flights each way to Mexico and back. I recently read a stat where TFC flew more km's in their CCL run then most teams do over an entire MLS season. I firmly believe that our CCL run put is in the position where we are now. Every fan has their preferences and biases and for me I was hoping that 2017 was the start of a dynasty whereby we won several MLS cups in a row and established TFC as the premier club in MLS. But it now looks like we may miss the play-offs altogether. The price paid for the CCL run was too high.

[wopchop]

The price paid for the CCL run was too high.
We went out on PKs. Let's say we didn't and were crowned champions - would you feel that it was worth it?

[NK Toronto]

We went out on PKs. Let's say we didn't and were crowned champions - would you feel that it was worth it?

But we didn't win. So no one outside of a TFC supporter will remember that we lost in the final. The reason for this post was not too look back at what happened in the CCL and say it was a mistake to go all in, but rather to look forwards given that we now know the price of a CCL run, is it worth doing again? I don't believe anyone on the coaching staff or in club management thought such a thing would occur, otherwise the CCL would have been done differently.

For me another CCL run shouldn't be undertaken until such time that there is a re-configuration of the CCL format, meaning starting later in the spring, spreading the tournament out over a longer period, and having some sort of reasonable ranking system. To have the best team in MLS play the best team in Mexico (Tigres) in the second round was ridiculous and illogical.

It will be interesting to see how management approaches the CCL next time around.

[James17930]

But we didn't win. So no one outside of a TFC supporter will remember that we lost in the final. The question, and my reason for this post, is now that we know the price of a CCL run, is it worth doing again given how it impacts the rest of the season? For me it isn't until such time that there is a re-configuration of the CCL format, meaning starting later in the spring, spreading the tournament out over a longer period, and having some sort of reasonable ranking system. To have the best team in MLS play the best team in Mexico (Tigres) in the second round was ridiculous and illogical.

The scheduling is absurd, yes. But I don't know if we can ignore it if we qualify just for that reason.

But this year they went 100% CCL vs. 0% league. And that obviously was not the correct call.

[ensco]

The scheduling is absurd, yes. But I don't know if we can ignore it if we qualify just for that reason.

But this year they went 100% CCL vs. 0% league. And that obviously was not the correct call.

It was 100% the correct call.

You have a shot at something like that in front of you, you take that shot. With everything you have got.

[ensco]

Suck it up, buttercups. I am really disappointed at the criticism Bradley, Vanney, Delgado, Vazquez, others are getting.

We are missing all our starting defenders from last year. Moor, Mavinga, Zavaleta, Morrow. ALL of them. You think that had the slightest, tiniest factor in our not holding the lead last night?

We need to accept the fact that you don’t always get the result you should with some grace.

22 games to go. 8 points back with a game in hand.

[NK Toronto]

It was 100% the correct call.

You have a shot at something like that in front of you, you take that shot. With everything you have got.


For this year okay given the historic 2017 year. What about going forward?

It also depends on how you view CONCACAF. I have several friends from South America who believe that the Mexican league is inferior to the leagues in Brazil and Argentina, so for them wining CONCACAF is not that great of an accomplishment. Mind you that's just their opinion but winning CONCACAF might not be as prestigious as many TFC supporters believe it to be.

[ag futbol]

I think it was the right call at the time. I question, if we qualify again this year, whether it’s worth the continued elevated importance.

It’s a joke that a championship team gets basically a 6 week offseason and then is asked to compete for a supposedly larger prise against foreign clubs in mid season form.

[NK Toronto]

I think it was the right call at the time. I question, if we qualify again this year, whether it’s worth the continued elevated importance.

It’s a joke that a championship team gets basically a 6 week offseason and then is asked to compete for a supposedly larger prise against foreign clubs in mid season form.

Couldn't agree more. Changes to the format need to be made to level the playing field and make it both fair and desirable for MLS teams to compete. Otherwise its nothing more than a Mexican League Cup.

[Valdal]

It is a lost season. We lost Concacaf and that was just the icing on the cake. With how we are looking 2018 might be a wash year for the club

[ensco]

Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.

[NK Toronto]

This is what is concerning, from Joshua Kloke, before last night's game:



"Some numbers for anyone who thinks TFC shouldn't be panicking: Since MLS switched to current playoff format, the average number of points to grab 6th place in East is 47. To hit 47 points, TFC would need to grab 37 points from their final 23 games, or 1.6 PPG. Last season, only four MLS teams, including a historically good TFC team, hit 1.6 PPG. It's dire, and you shouldn't call it anything but that. Matches like tonight's against Columbus are must win."


Now make it 36 points from their final 22 games.

[ensco]

^That’s not that bad a story! I am very comfortable that a full strength TFC will be better than 1.6 ppg.

Also it’s not a relevant analysis. The question is, how often do teams hit 1.6 ppg over 23 games (or 22 games), not 34 games.

[NK Toronto]

The other factor that needs to be considered is the form of the injured players when they do eventually return. I don't expect Jozy, Mavinga, and Morrow to play at their usual level when they first get back. There will be an adjustment period for them to get back both their timing and fitness, especially given how long they have been out, and Vanney will probably ease them in gradually so as to avoid any re-injuries. He said so himself that players not fully recovered from injuries were rushed back into the line-up during the CCL run. The team we saw fielded last night in Columbus might be the team we continue to see over the next month or so.

This season has lead me to conclude that Jozy is our most difficult player to replace. We had a good CCL run against high quality Mexican clubs essentially without Vazquez, but with Altidore out we are struggling badly against MLS teams, even with Seba, Bradley and VV all playing. We may not see Jozy play a full match, or close to one, until mid July.

[Gringo Starr]

I don't know what some of you guys see in Orlando that makes you think we can't catch them for the 6 spot, The Revs at 4 are nothing special either.

[James17930]

Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.

But that feat becomes a more difficult every year with more and more teams added. Yes, it can still happen, but the chances get lower simply due to numbers.

Not saying we don't have a chance to do it ... but we need to be fully healthy to have any reasonable shot, and who knows when we're going to be fully healthy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The only reason why tanking exists in the big four are incentives to get superstar talent on the cheap and under control.

NHL, NBA and NFL all have potential to get you a superstar talent with a high pick. MLB, the bonus slot from a high draft pick ensures you have more money to sign difficult picks from going to college.

MLS Superdraft is a joke because the best talent are either raised in the academy or poached by big clubs.

The flip side of this post is that the NA sports have no comparison elsewhere in the rest of the world. That means a tank draft means a tank team will be getting the best player in the world that plays that NA sport.

MLS Super draft is not a joke. TankDraft Principle is the joke. Footy just rises above it because the best in the world don't just come from NA.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Not for me. I'll take a pass on another CCL run given what its done to our 2018 MLS Season. Send out TFC II and get knocked out in the 1st round. Instead focus on getting guys back and healthy so something can be salvaged out of this season. If TFC misses the play-offs the narrative written won't be about a team decimated by injuries. Instead it will be how we were a one hit wonder.

That's assuming we never win another trophy in all the years to come. Unless you are commenting on every other team in the league but DC and LAG. Every other team has been a "one hit wonder" Otherwise known as winner.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If we don't make playoffs. The original poster deserves a free night of drinks on us.

How would we find him? The season was over for him. We'll have to find him next year, I guess.:rolleyes:

[ensco]

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nill y::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_ni lly:

[ManUtd4ever]

I give these guys a pass if we don't make the playoffs. We've played a ton of football in the last year, and we've been decimated by injuries for what seems like an eternity.

At this point, I'll be content with a Voyageurs Cup victory and a berth in the CCL.

That being said, it's entirely plausible that we go on a run in the second half and storm our way into the post season with a lower seed. Once we get in, if we're healthy, we can beat anybody.

[pfk]

I give these guys a pass if we don't make the playoffs. We've played a ton of football in the last year, and we've been decimated by injuries for what seems like an eternity.

At this point, I'll be content with a Voyageurs Cup victory and a berth in the CCL.

That being said, it's entirely plausible that we go on a run in the second half and storm our way into the post season with a lower seed. Once we get in, if we're healthy, we can beat anybody.

We can nearly beat other teams with what feels like a B team. Once we are back to strength after the World Cup, I think think team will go on a royal tear and jump up the standings. We just need to get our back line to return and get Bradley back in the midfield. I'm only half panicking or half delusional.

I'll disagree with you that missing the playoffs would be a pass. This team should not miss the playoffs. I would not be happy, I'd rather miss the CCL than the MLS playoffs (not that I want to miss the CCL).

[OgtheDim]

All journos sell eyeballs & subscriptions & papers with this stuff. Their job is to find a story and if they believe "panic time is now" is real, they will reach to write that because that sort of stuff sells.

I also have an issue with how Kloke characterised the loss - sorry...away draw within the conference - on Saturday as something that injuries did not affect.

[Canary10]

A run of four or five wins in a row and we're right back in the thick of it. I don't see that being impossible with this team once a few key players return. The fact that we're totally competitive with our current lineup, I'd even say getting the better of play against most teams, is really encouraging.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We can nearly beat other teams with what feels like a B team. Once we are back to strength after the World Cup, I think think team will go on a royal tear and jump up the standings. We just need to get our back line to return and get Bradley back in the midfield. I'm only half panicking or half delusional.

I'll disagree with you that missing the playoffs would be a pass. This team should not miss the playoffs. I would not be happy, I'd rather miss the CCL than the MLS playoffs (not that I want to miss the CCL).

And yet, one or two matches is all it takes. We don't have to choose between the two, CCL and Pussplops. They are 2 different seasons.

[DinamoTFC]

All journos sell eyeballs & subscriptions & papers with this stuff. Their job is to find a story and if they believe "panic time is now" is real, they will reach to write that because that sort of stuff sells.

I also have an issue with how Kloke characterised the loss - sorry...away draw within the conference - on Saturday as something that injuries did not affect.

The only thing about Kloke which is positive is that hes using numbers and stats and previous years points totals to prove his point. So hes not just blowing smoke for the sake of it.

[InDa_110]

Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.

Ensco, you are the only one with any common sense, reason and logic of most people who frequent these boards. Thank you.

[NK Toronto]

That's assuming we never win another trophy in all the years to come. Unless you are commenting on every other team in the league but DC and LAG. Every other team has been a "one hit wonder" Otherwise known as winner.

I see MLS growing and transforming into a league with less parity that is dominated by a half dozen or so big clubs that have the largest fan bases, generate the most revenue and have the highest payrolls. This would include teams such as NYC, Atlanta, Seattle, LA, and hopefully TFC. MY hope is that TFC be at or near the top of the table each and every year and an MLS Cup contender each and every year. Now I realize that you can't win all the time, but to have the team sitting second last in the East with over a third of the season gone makes it look like last season's championship was a one time occurrence and that we are nothing more than a Portland, a one time winner that quickly fades into mediocrity. I realize that the club has been hurt by injuries, but what happened Saturday in Columbus should never happen to a championship team.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I see MLS growing and transforming into a league with less parity that is dominated by a half dozen or so big clubs that have the largest fan bases, generate the most revenue and have the highest payrolls. This would include teams such as NYC, Atlanta, Seattle, LA, and hopefully TFC. MY hope is that TFC be at or near the top of the table each and every year and an MLS Cup contender each and every year. Now I realize that you can't win all the time, but to have the team sitting second last in the East with over a third of the season gone makes it look like last season's championship was a one time occurrence and that we are nothing more than a Portland, a one time winner that quickly fades into mediocrity. I realize that the club has been hurt by injuries, but what happened Saturday in Columbus should never happen to a championship team.

Well NK I understand your vision of this league but it will be a long time coming. This league is built for parity. This league is still young and continues to add rule changes and teams to keep the league unpredictable.

There will always be a bigger draw for the biggest names in NY and LA but even the smallest centres enjoy success for a time. That's not to say that we the supporters don't have a say in how attractive the club is to play for either. Toronto, Portland and Seattle aren't the biggest cities but have a fanbase that players talk about.

I think Toronto fans see dynasties from years gone by and dream big. I count myself as one of them but in the modern sports landscape its just not profitable for leagues.

What happened against Columbus was disappointing but hinging so much on a mid season loss of 2 points is a lot.

This season has people letting their expectations finally run wild but as noted above by others, there are plenty of obstacles to just breezing to a repeat/dynasty.

[Areathrasher]

Lets hope these moves happen and both teams form goes in the shitter...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De8S5A7XUAAEaCq.jpg

[molenshtain]

Posted this on another thread but it applies here:

Orlando loses tomorrow in Van, which is likely I think, and we beat D.C. at home on Tuesday the gap between us and the playoffs is 2 points with 20 games remaining and the world cup break coming up to get some rest and get guys healthy.

We're gonna be just fine.

[barticusz]

A big step in the right direction. Bodies are coming back and we have people playing in their correct positions. Just need to string a few together and get that swagger back.

[105]

3rd seed is still attainable. Will be tough, but not impossible. A top 2 seed is pretty much out of the question though.

Just get into the playoffs and get there healthy. If that happens, we have a shot to repeat.

[Gringo Starr]

Good weekend for us, win in Philly, nycfc and atl tied, redbulls and crew tied, Orlando lose and MTL losing

[Canary10]

Five points out of the playoffs with a game in hand.

[paul-collins]

https://giphy.com/embed/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA

[paul-collins]

Last year was a record season points wise and we were only a bit above 2 ppg. There are 3 teams currently on 2 ppg. That isn’t sustainable. They will come back to earth.

[Areathrasher]

"They think it's all over.....it is now"

[Oldtimer]

Seba and Osorio have contract issues and see Aketxe getting a tonne of undeserved cash. I think this has poisoned the locker room and is a factor in our team performing so poorly.

[shwade]

Seba and Osorio have contract issues and see Aketxe getting a tonne of undeserved cash. I think this has poisoned the locker room and is a factor in our team performing so poorly.

You should write a novel.

[ensco]

Seba and Osorio have contract issues and see Aketxe getting a tonne of undeserved cash. I think this has poisoned the locker room and is a factor in our team performing so poorly.

Don’t see it.

Oso is having a great year, and while Seba may be unsettled re his contract, it has nothing to do with Aketxe - the difference between what Aketxe is worth, vs what he is being paid, is beer money to Seba.

I'd bet Seba couldn’t pick Aketxe out of a police lineup.

The problem is injuries, and especially Jozy. That and cumulative fatigue.

[Oldtimer]

Roster construction is another issue. We have too many fragile players, other teams have managed to have a healthy squad despite the MLS rules. RBNY went fairly deep into the CCL without so many injuries.

[TheGoodson]

Roster construction is another issue. We have too many fragile players, other teams have managed to have a healthy squad despite the MLS rules. RBNY went fairly deep into the CCL without so many injuries.'


RBNY also had 3 plus months off in each of the past two off seasons, where as TFC had approximately 12 weeks over the same period...

[ensco]

The east is crap again, a whole bunch of times are coughing it up

It really won’t take that much to get in.

[Voodooman]

The east is crap again, a whole bunch of times are coughing it up

It really won’t take that much to get in.

Thats' one of the things I keep looking at.

Despite all of this, we are only 6 points out with a game in hand. We all know what can happen when a team sneaks into the playoffs on a hot streak!

[notthesun]

It's over.

[InDa_110]

Yes.

[Oldtimer]

I'll wait until the end of July. If we're still in a hole, it's over.

[jloome]

We need a shot of energy.

We may also be tactically found out at this point. We're always trying to run a short pass offense around the box, but it's so compressed, with five up around the box, that it's hard to pull the other team out of shape. We've been playing basically the same two sets for two years now.

[ensco]

We left something in Guadalajara. Jozy, sure, but clearly something more than that. I thought this was the game we'd find it.

There is still a good chance we'll be a factor, given the ridiculous setup in MLS. The east is crap, 8 points back with two games in hand.

[SirBobSaget]

Can we finally start questioning gm, coaches, sports scientists etc ? Given the highest budget in mls they're keeping company with the bottom earning under a point per game. But the ccl!! Nyrb also had a decent ccl run except they're not crashing out of mls despite similar travel/games and 1/3 the budget

[Auzzy]

Can we finally start questioning gm, coaches, sports scientists etc ? Given the highest budget in mls they're keeping company with the bottom earning under a point per game. But the ccl!! Nyrb also had a decent ccl run except they're not crashing out of mls despite similar travel/games and 1/3 the budget

I'm really starting to worry about the whole medical regime. Where the heck were Vazquez, VDW, Mavinga, Auro? I thought Hernandez was doing a decent job vs. BWP, but then he went down as well, screwing us for an offensive sub in that heat. Feels like one step forward, two steps back.

[Gringo Starr]

We left something in Guadalajara. Jozy, sure, but clearly something more than that. I thought this was the game we'd find it.

There is still a good chance we'll be a factor, given the ridiculous setup in MLS. The east is crap, 8 points back with two games in hand.

i though Delgado had his first decent game since Mexico, starting to look like his old self, to bad he missed his chance that would have been a massive boost for the kid.

we are still in it but 3 points against The Loons are almost a must

[portu]

On the topic of “sell Giovinco, fire management, the season is over etc etc”:

The biggest hurdle leadership needs to jump is how they are going to gracefully rebuild a team that they themselves have curated based on a certain culture and group collective, which when successful turns the group into friends and the best players into ‘legends’. Manning was never able to do that at RSL and Bez has never had to be in that sort of position. Whether that moment is now or further down the line I don’t know, but if they want to maintain CCL contention year-on-year they’re going to have to know when to let go of regressing players to maintain quality, be decisive to reduce transition time, and handle it gracefully to keep up the clubs reputation.

If we miss playoffs playing the way we’re playing, it would be a massive gamble by club leadership to call it an outlier because of injuries, bad luck, etc. If it is an outlier than next season should be similar to 2017. However if it’s not and the club is actually getting worse 2019 would likely be even worse than this season. Further to that the club would have to rebuild with a number of regressing assets (Moor, Giovinco, Bradley) and heavy contracts (Aketxe, Vazquez, Zavaleta, VDW) as well as an entire league getting increasingly better.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It's over.


Yes.
See ya next year! :seeya:

[pfk]

An interesting statistical breakdown of TFC's playoff chances here: http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html

TFC need to finish with 46 points (33 points in the remaining 19 games - 1.74ppg) to have a positive percentage to get in to the playoffs. Of course, it depends on how other teams fare, but it's an interesting stats look at what could potentially happen.

[trane]

It is becoming frustrating, we are not playing too poorly, but we are giving up soft goals, and cannot finish our chances. I did not care while we were in the CL, and allowed some time to recover from it, I also will give some leeway in light of injuries. BUT now is the time, we need to start getting points ASAP. This will be a huge disapointing season, if we do not make the playoffs AT THE VERY LEAST. We still have what it takes to make it to the finals, but we cannot keep on dropping points.

[pfk]

An article in the Guardian on TFC's woes: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/03/toronto-fc-problems-mls-soccer

[paul-collins]

It is becoming frustrating, we are not playing too poorly, but we are giving up soft goals, and cannot finish our chances. I did not care while we were in the CL, and allowed some time to recover from it, I also will give some leeway in light of injuries. BUT now is the time, we need to start getting points ASAP. This will be a huge disapointing season, if we do not make the playoffs AT THE VERY LEAST. We still have what it takes to make it to the finals, but we cannot keep on dropping points.
I find it baffling that we are only 8 points out of playoffs with two games in hand, to be honest... This thread is so wrong because for whatever reason the majority of the East is just not able to garner points.

But I agree, the time for turnaround is coming on fast.

[ensco]

I don’t define success this season by whether we make the playoffs. Being sixth in the east, whoop de doo. We could easily make the playoffs and just be cannon fodder, which is not very interesting. The east could heat up, we may play a lot better but be 7th by a whisker. We may never get truly healthy. Even if we get in and play well, knockout elimination games are often cruel, as the past few days have shown.

Results alone are not the story.

I want us to start looking like our old selves. I want the crowd roaring at BMO, I want to have fun at games. I want Atlanta to have nightmares about playing TFC in November.

That is my definition of a good season. Then let the chips fall where they may.

[Richard]

I agree that this team had its soul crushed in Mexico, until we go back there we're going to slog it through.

But, I hope that they can get it out of their minds, I want to some venom, especially from Giovinco, get angry, get some vicious goals, get this team fired up.

[Globetrotter]

2 games in hand. We win both and we're 2-3 points back from the last playoff spot. It's halfway in the season. If by early mid August we're in the same spot, we can make the playoffs, and will if we have our injuries eliminated (except for Mavinga being long term).

As of today, playoffs still in the cards.

[portu]

2 games in hand. We win both and we're 2-3 points back from the last playoff spot. It's halfway in the season. If by early mid August we're in the same spot, we can make the playoffs, and will if we have our injuries eliminated (except for Mavinga being long term).

As of today, playoffs still in the cards.

As of today, we have an 11% chance of making the playoffs.

Also, I just want to point out that when Ryan Nelsen was sacked we had just under an 80% chance of making the playoffs and that at no point this season (aside from before a ball was kicked) have we had a higher chance of making the playoffs than at any point during Nelsen's 2014 tenure. Hell, at this point in 2010 Preki had us around 70% likely to make the playoffs. I don't have to remind anyone on this forum that this team did not make the playoffs in either year, stop daydreaming people. We're fucked.

[Globetrotter]

As of today, we have an 11% chance of making the playoffs.


So you're saying we still have a chance...

I dont know how those percentages are drafted and crafted but reality is if our guys are healthy and on the field together, they will start winning, and it will become infectious. No team has a better starting 11. (10 when we eliminate Mavinga, which of course is a big, big loss).

[portu]

So you're saying we still have a chance...

I dont know how those percentages are drafted and crafted but reality is if our guys are healthy and on the field together, they will start winning, and it will become infectious. No team has a better starting 11. (10 when we eliminate Mavinga, which of course is a big, big loss).

I honestly believe this is BS. We no longer can by any stretch of the imagination claim we have the strongest starting XI when most are regressing, constantly injured or both. Staying healthy is a skill, it is not good luck/bad luck.

[Globetrotter]

Staying healthy is a skill, it is not good luck/bad luck.

Are you suggesting they all go plant-based, vegan?

[portu]

Are you suggesting they all go plant-based, vegan?
I'm suggesting that there is a reason that Altidore has the durability of a Yugo and that Bradley's is that of a monster truck and that some players are and have been better at maintaining their bodies than others.

[Richard]

I'm suggesting that there is a reason that Altidore has the durability of a Yugo and that Bradley's is that of a monster truck and that some players are and have been better at maintaining their bodies than others.

It comes down to genetics and Altidore won and lost the lottery at the same time. He has had world class physicians and dieticians coaching him since he turned professional, I refuse to believe he isn't doing his best to stay healthy.

[portu]

It comes down to genetics and Altidore won and lost the lottery at the same time. He has had world class physicians and dieticians coaching him since he turned professional, I refuse to believe he isn't doing his best to stay healthy.
That’s why I said “have been” clearly he took very poor care of his body for a very long time. The difference between 2015 and 2016 Altidore was night and day because of him losing a tiny bit of weight and stretching more often. I would maintain that he’s probably ended up hurting his body early on in his career to the point where injuries are now just a part of his life regardless. And you would be surprised by the level of care provided at some clubs especially way back when he started playing.

[Abou Sky]

To make the playoffs, we likely need to average about 2 points per game.

That was our record setting season average last year.

If we are healthy, we are the best team in the league, but, we are missing Moor, Mavinga, Altidore, Vazquez and Van Der Wiel.

That's half the team!

[Fort York Redcoat]

As of today, we have an 11% chance of making the playoffs.

Also, I just want to point out that when Ryan Nelsen was sacked we had just under an 80% chance of making the playoffs and that at no point this season (aside from before a ball was kicked) have we had a higher chance of making the playoffs than at any point during Nelsen's 2014 tenure. Hell, at this point in 2010 Preki had us around 70% likely to make the playoffs. I don't have to remind anyone on this forum that this team did not make the playoffs in either year, stop daydreaming people. We're fucked.

Who's daydreaming? This thread is ridiculous because a season isn't over till it's over. There's another better thread talking about likelihood of this and that.

[NK Toronto]

I'm suggesting that there is a reason that Altidore has the durability of a Yugo and that Bradley's is that of a monster truck and that some players are and have been better at maintaining their bodies than others.

I absolutely love the "Yugo" reference. I am wondering how many readers here under the age of 45 would even know what a Yugo was. I believe they stopped selling them in the U.S. in the early 90's and I don't know if they were even available in Canada as I don't recall ever seeing one on the road. My cousin had one and it was a total piece of crap. It was Europe's answer to the "Gremlin".

This was the best post of the day. It brought a smile to my face and helped me stop thinking about last night's game. :)

Maybe I will start a new thread "Yugo vs. Gremlin, which one was better". Have at it people.

[portu]

Who's daydreaming? This thread is ridiculous because a season isn't over till it's over. There's another better thread talking about likelihood of this and that.

Apparently you are.

[portu]

I absolutely love the "Yugo" reference. I am wondering how many readers here under the age of 45 would even know what a Yugo was. I believe they stopped selling them in the U.S. in the early 90's and I don't know if they were even available in Canada as I don't recall ever seeing one on the road. My cousin had one and it was a total piece of crap. It was Europe's answer to the "Gremlin".

This was the best post of the day. It brought a smile to my face and helped me stop thinking about last night's game. :)

Maybe I will start a new thread "Yugo vs. Gremlin, which one was better". Have at it people.

Haha yeah when I thought of a comparison that’s the first thing that came to mind

[ensco]

My team has delivered about 50 amazing moments, and 3 championship games, none of which they lost, in 20 months.

All this precious running around, railing and swearing by a loud (but hopefully tiny) group of “fans” because it seems TFC cannot deliver championship performance like hot and cold running water, those posts are just juvenile.

I am not suggesting that the team should be satisfied with where they are. The team has to leave the history behind and look forward. But for the fans, no way. That history totally matters to how we should see things, and how we support, and the team absolutely deserves better from its fans than this.

We may not turn it around this year. If we don’t, I will not be acting like a 12 year old enraged by what I got in my lunchbox.

[shwade]

My team has delivered about 50 amazing moments, and 3 championship games, none of which they lost, in 20 months.

All this precious running around, railing and swearing by a loud (but hopefully tiny) group of “fans” because it seems TFC cannot deliver championship performance like hot and cold running water, those posts are just juvenile.

I am not suggesting that the team should be satisfied with where they are. The team has to leave the history behind and look forward. But for the fans, no way. That history totally matters to how we should see things, and how we support, and the team absolutely deserves better from its fans than this.

We may not turn it around this year. If we don’t, I will not be acting like a 12 year old enraged by what I got in my lunchbox.

Or do the fans deserve better from the defending Champions? Blaming fans is a losers mentality.

[jloome]

Or do the fans deserve better from the defending Champions? Blaming fans is a losers mentality.

Gratitude works both ways. Perhaps showing some for winning the fucking treble last season would entail giving them a season to start rebuilding again, as the rest of the league was doing that last year when we were already on top.


Look at this story from MLSsoccer today about Houston. In the same two years that we were getting Giovinco and Vasquez, they were rebuilding with south American talent. Now, they have SIX competitive strikers (five?); either way, their depth across the front just shows how reliant we were on Seba and Jozy.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/07/05/houston-dynamo-sign-young-venezuelan-forward-ronaldo-pena-full-transfer

We have no forward depth. Ergo, we are not going to be able to compete with injuries. And we have had tons of injuries.

The defensive corps has lost all of its experience. All. We have two guys in their early twenties who have never been number one center halfs on the pitch. And we're trying to integrate two more players who don't speak much English in Auro and Akexte.

This is not a season to be blaming coaching talent. If there are shortfalls, they came from overconfidence in the front office about our depth. But given Bez's last five years, he gets a FUCKING PASS.

Jesus H.

Let's not make this another example of Toronto Fans only caring if their team can win, and shitting on them all of the rest of the time, okay? It's an old cliche that really deserves a kick in the teeth.

[Voodooman]

Gratitude works both ways. Perhaps showing some for winning the fucking treble last season would entail giving them a season to start rebuilding again, as the rest of the league was doing that last year when we were already on top.


Look at this story from MLSsoccer today about Houston. In the same two years that we were getting Giovinco and Vasquez, they were rebuilding with south American talent. Now, they have SIX competitive strikers (five?); either way, their depth across the front just shows how reliant we were on Seba and Jozy.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/07/05/houston-dynamo-sign-young-venezuelan-forward-ronaldo-pena-full-transfer

We have no forward depth. Ergo, we are not going to be able to compete with injuries. And we have had tons of injuries.

The defensive corps has lost all of its experience. All. We have two guys in their early twenties who have never been number one center halfs on the pitch. And we're trying to integrate two more players who don't speak much English in Auro and Akexte.

This is not a season to be blaming coaching talent. If there are shortfalls, they came from overconfidence in the front office about our depth. But given Bez's last five years, he gets a FUCKING PASS.

Jesus H.

Let's not make this another example of Toronto Fans only caring if their team can win, and shitting on them all of the rest of the time, okay? It's an old cliche that really deserves a kick in the teeth.

Just want to highlight the last line. For real, Toronto is supremely guilty of this. Look at the Jays right now, attendance is all but gone again, and making fun of the team is back in.

We don't need to stoop to those levels. Every team goes through spells no matter how good, I have faith we will get it back. That's one thing this current regime has gained through us over the time and that's trust.

[OgtheDim]

Or do the fans deserve better from the defending Champions?...

All we deserve is for them to make an effort, including management.

I have seen nothing (apart from those 45 minutes in NYC) to indicate this team has stopped trying.

Have they been good enough? No. Bez is indicating they are going shopping. Nobody is happy. This is all a proper response.

We don't deserve better - we deserve a team that gives a feces. They do.

After years of teams being bad & not caring - I prefer this.

[shwade]

All we deserve is for them to make an effort, including management.

I have seen nothing (apart from those 45 minutes in NYC) to indicate this team has stopped trying.

Have they been good enough? No. Bez is indicating they are going shopping. Nobody is happy. This is all a proper response.

We don't deserve better - we deserve a team that gives a feces. They do.

After years of teams being bad & not caring - I prefer this.

Effort is what I'm talking about. The last 2 games it's been there but prior to that (post Mexico) it didnt seem like it was all there on the pitch (Aketxe, Ricketts, Zava, Seba sometimes).

Rebuilding is down to the FO and if fans aren't showing up or being as loud then that's a message for the FO. Unfortunately the players are caught in the middle.

[notthesun]

We have no forward depth. Ergo, we are not going to be able to compete with injuries. And we have had tons of injuries.

The defensive corps has lost all of its experience. All. We have two guys in their early twenties who have never been number one center halfs on the pitch. And we're trying to integrate two more players who don't speak much English in Auro and Akexte.

This is not a season to be blaming coaching talent. If there are shortfalls, they came from overconfidence in the front office about our depth. But given Bez's last five years, he gets a FUCKING PASS.

Jesus H.

Let's not make this another example of Toronto Fans only caring if their team can win, and shitting on them all of the rest of the time, okay? It's an old cliche that really deserves a kick in the teeth.

Well said.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Apparently you are.

LOL read as "I know you are but what am I". If all you came for was playoffs, that's too bad for you.


Or do the fans deserve better from the defending Champions? Blaming fans is a losers mentality.

Deserve butter? Blaming fans? I look for Supporters.

[portu]

LOL read as "I know you are but what am I". If all you came for was playoffs, that's too bad for you.



Deserve butter? Blaming fans? I look for Supporters.
Here for every game, just as you are. I'm not just here for playoffs. But the point of the regular season is supporters shield/playoffs and without those to go towards our MLS season is pretty much over and that's what this discussion is about. I expect better from a management group that preaches long-term, sustainable success, and I'm surprised by the number of people who don't (though it's a minority).

[Fort York Redcoat]

Here for every game, just as you are. I'm not just here for playoffs. But the point of the regular season is supporters shield/playoffs and without those to go towards our MLS season is pretty much over and that's what this discussion is about. I expect better from a management group that preaches long-term, sustainable success, and I'm surprised by the number of people who don't (though it's a minority).

No.

If the season is over you stop watching. It's not over. If you think it's semantics then you look at supporting differently.

Wanting better and checking out are different and on that we agree. It's the language that is the problem. It sets the tone that any of us would check out before the last kick of the ball.

It's important.

That's why the season is over for fairweather bandwagon glory hunters.

[portu]

No.

If the season is over you stop watching. It's not over. If you think it's semantics then you look at supporting differently.

Wanting better and checking out are different and on that we agree. It's the language that is the problem. It sets the tone that any of us would check out before the last kick of the ball.

It's important.

That's why the season is over for fairweather bandwagon glory hunters.
If the season is over you stop watching if you're a fairweather fan, as you said, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the season is over in the first place.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If the season is over you stop watching if you're a fairweather fan, as you said, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the season is over in the first place.

I don't think you are grasping "expression" vs literal. This is a case where the expression has lost it's meaning. It's the problem with the whole thread because of it's title.

We are not making playoffs is not saying there is nothing left to see here.

Like I said at the start, a ridiculous thread.

[Amir.]

Apparently one of the toughest remaining schedules..and about 30 points needed so something like a 10-6 or 9-4-3 record..extremely unlikely but good thing is NE and CHI have a tougher one and PHI equal

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/07/09/strength-schedule-rankings-update-who-has-toughest-road-left

[ManUtd4ever]

My team has delivered about 50 amazing moments, and 3 championship games, none of which they lost, in 20 months.

All this precious running around, railing and swearing by a loud (but hopefully tiny) group of “fans” because it seems TFC cannot deliver championship performance like hot and cold running water, those posts are just juvenile.

I am not suggesting that the team should be satisfied with where they are. The team has to leave the history behind and look forward. But for the fans, no way. That history totally matters to how we should see things, and how we support, and the team absolutely deserves better from its fans than this.

We may not turn it around this year. If we don’t, I will not be acting like a 12 year old enraged by what I got in my lunchbox.

Agreed. This is exactly how I see it.

We've played a ton of football in the last couple of years, and we've been decimated by injuries for the last few months.

lf we qualify for the CCL and take a genuine run at a playoff spot, I'll be content under the circumstances.

[DOMIN8R]

Wow. We have come a long way from asking for gravy boats.:hide:

[Hamilton_Red]

Ok my two cents...no matter what happens for the rest of the year...I will consider this a successful year. I will take a CONCACAF Final losing only on penalties in a heartbeat. The injuries and damage that it took out of the team...well there is no team in MLS that could survive that. There is a chance that we can make the play-offs...dwindling for sure. To call for wholesale changes would be insane. Sure few tweaks and punting Aketxe and replacing him with someone could spark the second half. It is as important to me that we get back to Concacaf for next season.

I really hate the Hockey/Leafs term "rebuilding year"...we should never use it. Ideally we are trying to improve 2-3 first team spots a year. Blow up the management and team and we are looking at a trip back into TFC circa 2007-2015.

[ensco]

There is only one thing I would ask the team to be tough on themselves about, and that is the training/medical/rehab setup.

I don't really understand why (i) so many guys have been injured in practice, and (ii) why most of those injured appear to have come back too early, and quickly re-injured themselves.

I don't want to rush to judge, or criticize, nobody is perfect.... I just want to understand. What have we learned from this?

[shwade]

There is only one thing I would ask the team to be tough on themselves about, and that is the training/medical/rehab setup.

I don't really understand why (i) so many guys have been injured in practice, and (ii) why most of those injured appear to have come back too early, and quickly re-injured themselves.

I don't want to rush to judge, or criticize, nobody is perfect.... I just want to understand. What have we learned from this?

Rational..can't be too hard on the guys after what they've delivered the past 18 months or so. They're burnt out, 1 month of off season in 16 months isn't enough...Training staff is probably figuring that out now and adjusting the intensity and finding a balance with the hole we're in now.

[OgtheDim]

There were rumours that some of the guys didn't take much time off after the celebrations.

[tfcfans]

Agreed. This is exactly how I see it.

We've played a ton of football in the last couple of years, and we've been decimated by injuries for the last few months.

lf we qualify for the CCL and take a genuine run at a playoff spot, I'll be content under the circumstances.

Agreed as well --- of course we are all frustrated at this years results, and the injuries thing is a legitimate concern as to why they keep happening (for reasons beyond the overly demanding schedule over the last 20 months), and the odd signing that has not worked out this season as hoped (AA)....I don't have the patience to check but I would love to know how many games did 4,10,17,7, and 23 play together this year in MLS play -- I believe the answer was one game (the home opener when we were clearly in the midst of getting ready for Tigres)....sorry but I would love to see what a team with those 5 key pieces playing together consistently can do before I decide that they all suck including Vanney who apparently went from genius to moron in 6-7 months (I mean he coached a team who dominated two MLS Cups in a row and lost one on penalties which is a crap-shoot as the WC has shown us again)......everyone did not get miles worse than they were on December 9, 2017 that by July 2018 they all are over the hill and useless all of a sudden --- some regression was to be expected (and the focus rightly or wrongly was on CCL to start the year which again they were a penalty crapshoot away from winning) and we just have not had a lineup to play the right people in the right places to maximize our chances of success this year with no true CB and no alternative scorer up front to replace Jozy --- Am I going to rip Bez for not finding another scorer or CB after he's pulled enough rabbits out of his hat the last few years? no.....if this team is still crapping the bed with a full lineup together for ten games than maybe I'll question some tactics or effort; but if not, I will put my faith in the people that are running this team that clearly aren't afraid to spend to try to be better - it's not like mgmt is trying to cheap out on salary, or that they tripled our ST prices for those that stuck around for the last 10-12 years supporting this team....let's put it this way if the Leafs win a Cup this year in 2018-2019 (a dream), and then crap out in 2019-2020 and don't make the playoffs, I'll sign up for that two season combo right now.....as would many Leafs fans who have waited since 1967.....if I heard a Blackhawks fan whining about not making the playoffs last year after 3 Cups in 6 years, as a Leafs fan I would have little sympathy....(I know we haven't won 3 Cups in 6 years but the basic premise of missing the playoffs after being very successful).....

I'm not saying we should accept losing and be happy about it.......but think back to 2014 prior to even making the playoffs, and if I said the next four years would be playoff loss in opening game to Montreal, lose Championship on penalties, win Championship (Treble), and then miss playoffs --- would any of us who have seen such garbage in the first 7-8 years not have taken that in a heartbeat.....when the 94 (strike) and 95 Jays sucked after two World Series, my feelings of disappointment were not quite the same as if they had never won or if it had been 20+ years since being in the playoffs (2015-2016) - a little perspective is sometimes needed, the Cavs had the best player on the planet for how many years of his career and won one title, they burned jerseys the first time as they lost their one real chance at ever winning -- he delivered a title and dragged a team to the Finals and lost 3x the second time around and as much as the fans know in Cleveland know their team will suck now, the reaction was different because he delivered that one title....only one team gets to be happy at the end, are all the other seasons a failure then? if so, sports is really going to disappoint you 95-98% of the time and you may as well stop watching and punishing yourself because the ROI on being happy only when your teams win a title, is simply a bad investment of ones time.....

[DIEHARDTFC]

Said this in the Minny GT, but wins against MTL in the reg season and a repeat of the Canadian Championship will satisfy me for accomplishments this season. We won everything there was to win last year, and the boys had little to no offseason. Yes, they're professionals and we feel (fairly or not) that they should always be ready to go, but the long seasons in 2016 and 2017 have to take a toll. We all got used to winning so this season has been very difficult to watch, but at the end of the day we had TWO consecutive MLS cups at home and won one of them - so if that means this season is a tough pill to swallow, I'll gladly be happy with what we did over the past couple seasons and hope that 2019 is different.

That all said, I'll stay on the glass half full camp and hope that we muster some kind of run into 6th

[ag futbol]

The team needs to get healthy and they need to give some consideration to shutting down multiple players for rest. Watching guys bounce in-and-out of the lineup after injuries looks bad on the coaching staff and the trainers.

We need to see these guys at 100% to know whether they still have what it takes to be on a championship team (even if that can only happen in meaningless end of season ties). From there we can think about what signings need to be made in the offseason.

This season is shot. It’s time to turn our eyes to 2019, not haplessly chase after a measly Canadian championship and CCL qualification when we know the team isn’t going to do anything with it as they are currently constructed.

[Richard]

If this is what happens to a successful team nearly winning the CCL then MLS has to address what has happened in some way.

I agree that the season is done.

[69Chevy396]

Curious: Didn’t Vazquez and Mavinga sign long term contracts just before going down with injuries? Getting rid of Beitishour was a big mistake. Leaving Edwards exposed, an even bigger one. Signing EVM and Axcete, didnt improve the team. What is going on with the constant hamstring injuries on this team? What is Aura’s status? Can we finally get rid of Osorio while he still has some value? Didn’t Delgado also sign long term, then play himself off the starting lineup? When does Bradley announce his desire to play in LA? Which league matches Seba’s TFC salary prompting him to leave in 2019?
2017 was fantastic. I predict five years of rebuilding to follow.

[ensco]

The answer to most of these questions is, the injury gods got us. We got used to our journeyman players getting results last year, but this year it ain't happening. It's a bit disappointing.

Let's see where we are in 5-6 games. I think we can win 4 of them. We are due, and the cavalry is coming.

Also I hereby rename this the TFC communal anxiety disorder thread.

[azorean]

The answer to most of these questions is, the injury gods got us. We got used to our journeyman players getting results last year, but this year it ain't happening. It's a bit disappointing.

Let's see where we are in 5-6 games. I think we can win 4 of them. We are due, and the cavalry is coming.

Also I hereby rename this the TFC communal anxiety disorder thread.

I agree, turn around HAS to come, full strength, let's see what we do.

That said, What a drop off !!!!! Nobody expected this. We have had a lot of injuries, tiredness, apathy, etc.. and we have definitely been unsettled BUT what a drop off from full strength to this.

[ensco]

We all got carried away with this "best team in MLS history stuff" and missed some obvious signs that we weren't THAT good.

Not least of which, we barely, and I mean barely, got through both series in the Eastern playoffs. We also had a whole bunch of pretty fortunate regular season games in 2017, where we were outplayed, but got wins.

We are still, at or near full strength, an excellent MLS team.

This is kind of a PTSD reaction caused by our weird history, imho. We went from “nothing good ever happens to us, we always suck” to “we deserve all good things, all the time, we are so great” in maybe 18 months.

The truth is that neither is right.

[shwade]

We all got carried away with this "best team in MLS history stuff" and missed some obvious signs that we weren't THAT good.

Not least of which, we barely, and I mean barely, got through both series in the Eastern playoffs. We also had a whole bunch of pretty fortunate regular season games in 2017, where we were outplayed, but got wins.

We are still, at or near full strength, an excellent MLS team.

This is kind of a PTSD reaction caused by our weird history, imho. We went from “nothing good ever happens to us, we always suck” to “we deseve everything good, all the time, we are so great” in maybe 18 months.

The truth is that neither is right.

It's just shellshock from how fast things got so bad. Injuries notwithstanding of course.

[jloome]

We all got carried away with this "best team in MLS history stuff" and missed some obvious signs that we weren't THAT good.

Not least of which, we barely, and I mean barely, got through both series in the Eastern playoffs. We also had a whole bunch of pretty fortunate regular season games in 2017, where we were outplayed, but got wins.

We are still, at or near full strength, an excellent MLS team.

This is kind of a PTSD reaction caused by our weird history, imho. We went from “nothing good ever happens to us, we always suck” to “we deserve all good things, all the time, we are so great” in maybe 18 months.

The truth is that neither is right.


There are also a slew of ancillary factors to consider. Jozy and Michael Bradley are basically football pariahs now in every U.S. stadium. After what they've given to that program since they were teenagers, the disgust and distraction level right now must be extremely high.

Seba has lost a step speed-wise, and is being marked a lot tighter. He needs to play more of a playmaker role, or have someone open up space so he can be a fox in the box. But without Jozy we have no one experienced and strong enough to play that hold-up. He also hasn't worked out a new deal with only a year left and there seems to be little impetus from the club. That's not very loyal.

Vazquez has turned into a porcelain player right after signing a big deal with a back that makes him an occasional contributor at best. And we have no quality start center backs, just two guys who -- and we can shed the young label at this point -- have great physical attributes but can only survive and contribute when directed.

Aketxe was a bust, Delgado's confidence was shot after the cup miss, and Auro, while a good winger, really can't defend, particularly on set pieces.

Other clubs have caught up while all this is going on, doubling the impact of every blow. On top of that, Vanney has been wedded to tactics that require a healthy team.

This season isn't all about the injuries. There's been some real mismanagement as well, I hate to say it.

Having said that, if we actually ever get healthy again we're still a competitive club. They just need to make some hard decision and bring in some improved supporting cast members.

[reggie]

I agree .. we have been awful this season .. but at home we have outplayed the opposition almost every game and should have at least had 3 more wins .. with 5 to 6 starters missing ...and yes we were the best team in mls history that’s a fact .. looks atl may break that record this year

[OgtheDim]

ATL is having issues beating teams who don't try to run against them. Actually they always have.

[TFC1154ever]

14 games remaining. TFC need to win a minimum of 8 games to have a shot at making the final. Of the 14, 5 are must wins:

Vs Chi
@SJ
Vs Mon
Vs NE
Vs Van

If they can get these 5, they need 3 wins and maybe a tie or 2 in the other 9 games.

[Canary10]

14 games remaining. TFC need to win a minimum of 8 games to have a shot at making the final. Of the 14, 5 are must wins:

Vs Chi
@SJ
Vs Mon
Vs NE
Vs Van

If they can get these 5, they need 3 wins and maybe a tie or 2 in the other 9 games.

I’d say we need 10 wins. That gets us to 49 which should be in. Very difficult but possible if the TFC we all know is in there somewhere shows up for the rest of the season.

[James17930]

I’d say we need 10 wins. That gets us to 49 which should be in. Very difficult but possible if the TFC we all know is in there somewhere shows up for the rest of the season.

And we probably still need at least one signing to give us more depth. Any time we have to play guys out of position (like Morrow on the right in Chicago), it's not ideal.

[leedsandTFC]

10 wins is to basically guarantee a spot.

8-9 wins can get us there, but 10 to guarantee one i think.

[koolvid12]

The answer is Jozy Altidore. He's the most important player long term for this squad while Gio is the best when everything is going "right" for the squad.

[Globetrotter]

Per all my other previous posts, we are not - and never were - out of the playoff picture. We just needed to keep pace with the bottom rung teams and playoff line until we returned to health by late July/early August where there would be 2 months left to go.


Of course we're still weeks away from the finish line, but for all the doomsday and naysayers, look at where we sit:


Tied with Orlando in points and games played.


1 point behind Chicago with 2 games in hand


5 points behind Philly (no games in hand)


6 points behind NE (no games in hand) with one game at home versus them. I see that as only a 3 point deficit.


6 points behind MTL, with two games in hand with 2 games against them. I see this as us moving ahead of them.




So what the above means is - as long as we stay status quo for the rest of the year in terms of points gained compared to everyone else below the 4th place in the East, we would:


have 2 playoff positions to be gunning for (5 and 6)


Moved ahead of CHI, MTL
ORL and NE are just a 1 win differential away from us... which we should be able to surpass.


Philly... doesn't really matter, they can take the 5th seed with the equation above because we've just landed ourselves in 1 of the 2 playoff spots.


We have the best team in the league when the lineup is on the field. Knocking down the "easy" point at hands and competing against the other best teams in the league puts us in a great test and position. Once we show that we can continue to beat them and go on a long run - NO team in MLS will want to meet us in the playoffs.


Still work to do - but we were never out of it, and still aren't.

[ensco]

It's just about putting a streak together.

btw keep half an eye on DCU, whose record is skewed because they were waiting for Audi Field to open, and have mostly home games left. They could easily get into the mix. Wouldn’t surprise me if TFC and DCU both make it.

[Kaz]

There are 13 games left in the season.

We will need between 45-51 points to just make the playoffs.

23-29 points more than we have currently.

That is 1.77-2.23ppg for those last 13 games.

That means this team needs their best player playing their best for the next 17 games (with playoffs)

Maximum points is 39 from the next 13 games.

Maximum points that can be dropped is between 10 and 16.

Realistically if all teams play as they are currently 47 points is likely safe.

That is 8 wins, 1 tie, 4 losses (or 7 wins 4 ties and 1 loss)

We have 6 games against teams above 1.75ppg (2 against Atlanta)

We only have 3 games against teams currently below the red line.

With a fully healthy squad playing at their best to over come the issues it is in the realm of possibility.

Is the squad fully healthy and clicking yet? no.

Will they be healthy in time? That is the question right now.

To be sure to get into the playoffs this team needs to win 9 of the next 13 games.

Last night we beat a team that is 5 points below the line with 2 games in hand. It is the next games that will be telling.

IF TFC has 30 points or greater on August 30th there is a chance to make it. Anything less than that and playoff are likely done


I just wanted to add last season the results of those last 13 games were 9 wins 2 loses 2 draws. 29 points.

[James17930]

Globetrotter;1876702]Per all my other previous posts, we are not - and never were - out of the playoff picture. We just needed to keep pace with the bottom rung teams and playoff line until we returned to health by late July/early August where there would be 2 months left to go.[/B]

Though the reason we're not out of it yet is basically because teams like Philly, Orlando, Chicago and NE have been so mediocre, allowing us to hang around – if two of them were better we might have been too far behind.

So yeah, if we can play every game like we did second half against Chicago, we should be fine.

[Yohan]

Crossing fingers that Jozy remains healthy all season. No Jozy, no playoffs.

[stevep]

as of today BET365 has TFC, Montreal and New England all same odds to take the 5th and 6th place slots
so one of the 3 is not going to make it, the other two are going to get 5th and 6th

[Red4ever]

Again this thread is wrong.

Burn it and watch it die

[barongan]

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread http://gshort.click/isna/1/o.png

[portu]

2014: 32 Points in 22 Games

2018: 23 Points in 22 Games

In case anyone's memory is fuzzy we did not make the playoffs in 2014 and Ryan Nelsen was sacked after accruing 33 Points over 24 Games (a total Vanney will certainly not hit by 24 Games).

[Oldtimer]

2014: 32 Points in 22 Games

2018: 23 Points in 22 Games

In case anyone's memory is fuzzy we did not make the playoffs in 2014 and Ryan Nelsen was sacked after accruing 33 Points over 24 Games (a total Vanney will certainly not hit by 24 Games).

RN hadn't won an MLS Cup, neither did he have the injury problem that TFC had. More critically, RN didn't agree on strategy with Bez, which is the main reason he was fired.

[shwade]

2014: 32 Points in 22 Games

2018: 23 Points in 22 Games

In case anyone's memory is fuzzy we did not make the playoffs in 2014 and Ryan Nelsen was sacked after accruing 33 Points over 24 Games (a total Vanney will certainly not hit by 24 Games).

Firing Vanney would be madness. Nelson didn't accomplish 1/5 of what Vanney has. Full squad Vanney can't really be doubted in MLS.

[Oldtimer]

Firing Vanney would be madness. Nelson didn't accomplish 1/5 of what Vanney has. Full squad Vanney can't really be doubted in MLS.

The few Vanney haters left ignore anything positive he's done (like the technical sophistication in how the team shifted formations effortlessly against Atlanta most recently, and many times last year, which is 100% coaching) and look for any shreds of evidence to keep on holding to the opinion that he should be fired.

This is classical cognitive bias.
Psychologists have noted for a long time that humans hate to change their views, and will tend to cling to whatever first impressions they had at the beginning. The fact is it's true Vanney wasn't what many people wanted when he came (many wanted a "big name" coach from abroad) and was pretty green at the beginning. However, he's by now one of the best coaches in MLS according to most journalists. However, it's hard to change that first impression!

Here's an interesting link to cognitive bias:

https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/definitions/cognitive-bias-13

[shwade]

The few Vanney haters left ignore anything positive he's done (like the technical sophistication in how the team shifted formations effortlessly against Atlanta most recently, and many times last year, which is 100% coaching) and look for any shreds of evidence to keep on holding to the opinion that he should be fired.

This is classical cognitive bias.
Psychologists have noted for a long time that humans hate to change their views, and will tend to cling to whatever first impressions they had at the beginning. The fact is it's true Vanney wasn't what many people wanted when he came (many wanted a "big name" coach from abroad) and was pretty green at the beginning. However, he's by now one of the best coaches in MLS according to most journalists. However, it's hard to change that first impression!

Here's an interesting link to cognitive bias:

https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/definitions/cognitive-bias-13

Definitely. Admittedly I was unhappy with his interim tag being removed back then because I was expecting something bigger after firing Nelsen.

But after what he's accomplished in less than 3 seasons...what more could we possibly ask for? Right now we have a 'tried and tested' coach that people want to throw away for untried and untested.

If we have to blame someone then I guess the guy is Bez with his duds this year but again...benefit > doubt. These were rare missteps from him.

[Kaz]

The few Vanney haters left ignore anything positive he's done (like the technical sophistication in how the team shifted formations effortlessly against Atlanta most recently, and many times last year, which is 100% coaching) and look for any shreds of evidence to keep on holding to the opinion that he should be fired.

This is classical cognitive bias.
Psychologists have noted for a long time that humans hate to change their views, and will tend to cling to whatever first impressions they had at the beginning. The fact is it's true Vanney wasn't what many people wanted when he came (many wanted a "big name" coach from abroad) and was pretty green at the beginning. However, he's by now one of the best coaches in MLS according to most journalists. However, it's hard to change that first impression!

Here's an interesting link to cognitive bias:

https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/definitions/cognitive-bias-13


While I agree that he shouldn't be fired during the season. Last nights game was a classic Vanney move too. There was a time that the best way for a team to go through TFC was get a red. Last night showed that in spades. Vanney makes a serious of tactical changes that basically made it easier for Vancouver to counter. Now that has as much to do with Ganter still getting Refing gigs as anything, but last night TFC got out played by a former TFC player this organization did wrong by. Thankfully Henry did something classic.

Other coaches of better quality could do the same things he has done. I have never said he hasn't done anything right. I've said what he has done wrong has been an issue.

Last night we had to take two Defenders off the pitch. Why are TFC defenders getting so many injuries this year?
Why does defending totally fall apart once one or two players are removed. He is supposed to be coach of the year. And this the deepest team in history. It is only deep in the Midfield though. Once you remove Seba, Jozy, Drew Moore, and Mavinga the team falls apart. Bottom Table.. hell you don't even need to remove Seba he has disappeared for the most part this season.. getting decent assists but not really scoring.

I feel the negatives out way any positives.

I think we can do better.

[OgtheDim]

Other coaches of better quality could do the same things he has done. I have never said he hasn't done anything right. I've said what he has done wrong has been an issue.

...

There are now maybe 4 coaches of Vanney's quality in the league.

Martino - outcoached by Vanney now twice in two games in Atlanta

Bradley - not faced

Torrent - 1 game - we will see this Sunday

Berhalter - consistently good games with little to nothing between the two except injuries & red cards


Nobody else in the league is of the quality of those 5.

The idea that there is some magic bullet out waiting to coach this team is just...not true.

*******

But if we must talk about the decisions made last night:

Bench

Bono GK

Morrow LWB LCB LB RB RWB
Hernandez CB
Telfer LWB LM
Fraser CM
Hamilton F
Bokero F



Up a man at the half, Mavinga is ailing - take him off for Justin Morrow who goes into the 3-5-2 as the LCB.

Auro injured - Telfer in to the LWB (he can't play LCB) Morgan goes to LCB Morrow goes to RWB

Morgan can't keep pace with Davies anymore - Hernandez into the middle.

I'm not sure what other choices there were? Fraser, Hamilton, Bokero? Injuries always rearrange game plans. That our best defender went out at the half messed everything else up. Mavinga vs. Davies, who is a once every 5 years sort of forward MLS normally does not see, is our way to deal with him. Morgan & Osorio double teamed Davies knowing that Mavinga was available for backup. In the second half, we gave up counter after counter & the only defender on this team who could have forestalled that was subbed.

The team stunk. Guys played poorly. Ricketts has had his chance & shouldn't see the pitch again. I see why choices were made to bring certain players along and others not. Circumstances got the best of the roster set up. The players not playing up to their potential (with the exceptions of Bradley & Osorio & Irwin) almost lost us that game.

[James17930]

Vanney makes the occasional slip-up tactically, but as has been stated, those occasions are rare – game-in, game-out he's usually on top of everything.

There's not way at all he should be fired. That's just silly.

[portu]

My point was more to do with the argument that we won't be able to make the playoffs than to do with firing Vanney. And Nelsen dealt with on and off injured Defoe (plus petulance) and Gilberto and Bradley was playing injured that season, so yeah.

Nelsen's team through the summer was far worse than Vanney's even with injuries and strategic disagreement with Bez, yet performed better.

[ag futbol]

Let’s not rehash Ryan Nelson. He was simply not a good coach regardless of the roster (which I think he should bare some responsibility for).

Terrible negative tactics and clearly did not understand how to define players roles in a modern game.

[Oldtimer]

While I agree that he shouldn't be fired during the season. Last nights game was a classic Vanney move too.

You're actually illustrating my point about cognitive bias, selectively choosing data points to support a conclusion that you already arrived at several years ago, rather than reassessing your viewpoint in light of new evidence.

It was a totally reasonable thing to disagree with hiring a coach with no first team experience when he was hired. A lot of us felt that way. When Kreis became available, I wanted Kreis over Vanney because Kreis had a proven track record.

However, after he won the triple (showing quite sophisticated tactics while doing so), after CONCACAF declared him one of the best coaches in the federation, it is reasonable to reassess the view that Vanney is inexperienced and not a solid coach. Clinging to the idea that he's not good enough is... cognitive bias (and cognitive bias is something all us humans do from time to time).

I changed my mind. I'm not ashamed to say that. A lot of us changed our minds.

Except for a couple of teams that have equivalent quality of coaches, almost any team in the league would love to take Vanney from us.

[jabbronies]

Vanney makes the occasional slip-up tactically, but as has been stated, those occasions are rare – game-in, game-out he's usually on top of everything.

There's not way at all he should be fired. That's just silly.

People hate his tactic this year, but they are the same tactics he used last year and it won us the treble. Vanney has built an interconnected team that works very well together.

It's mind boggling that people - even in the media - can't see why this team didn't perform in the first half of the season the way it did last year.

Injuries to key positions. plain and simple

Our game is to build from the back. Our entire back line has been decimated by injuries all season - How the well do you think a team can build from the back when your entire backline is made up of bench players?
MLS isn't a league that can afford starters to sit on the bench like in other leagues. Our bench guys are good when surrounded by starters - but when they are lined up with other bench players, the shallowness of the leagues roster structure begins to show. Yes we have depth - MLS level depth - not EPL or even league MX depth. These guys are good enough to hold down a position and nothing more. when there are too many of them on the field, things don't happen that should happen.

Drew Moor and Chris Mavinga make our midfield trio better, including and especially Micheal Bradley. They manage the defensive responsibilities of the team so that our midfield doesn't have to think about it. They can focus on forward movement - and if they are needed on defence - Moor or Mavinga will let them know exactly where they need to be and when.

Victor Vazquez has been injured for most of this season - you know - the guy everyone was talking about last season - the key to unlocking defences - 16 assist / 8 goals Victor Vazquez - the guy who was doing things all over the pitch that stats can't begin to describe. Our offensive success is linked to this man. Aketxe was a good attempt to bring in a backup for him but it didn't work. I wanna know who thought going out and getting a younger version of Vasquez was going to be easy is a bit delusional and doesn't really understand the market.

Jozy Altidore makes Sebastian Giovinco better. if you can't see that and need me to explain how - then you are not watching the game.

This is a lot of shit to deal with. No team in the league can cope with this type of stress on their roster. And to be honest - I'd be surprised to see a team in Europe deal with this shit as well.

[TFC Tifoso]

It's mind boggling that people - even in the media - can't see why this team didn't perform in the first half of the season the way it did last year.


Its not really that mind boggling though....reason being that there are still a very small portion of the local media who are following TFC enough to recognise the cause of the earlier poor form.

I know Larson & Wolstat reference the injuries often in their pieces, and I'm sure Molinaro is/was doing the same, but after those guys how many more are assigned to the team?
The Star had Laura Armstrong writing regularly about TFC last year, but it seems they've moved her on to the Jays, and don't even have a beat reporter for TFC anymore.....most of the articles on their site are from CP or AP.

Of course, all it would take is for these media types to do a little bit of research before they write crap about the team, but apparently that's too much work to do for TFC.....