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View Full Version : Columbus Crew to Austin unless new stadium deal is reach



bluelight05
10-17-2017, 07:48 AM
Interesting....


http://www.espnfc.com/columbus-crew-sc/story/3231574/columbus-crew-sc-exploring-relocation-to-austin-tx


https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/16/columbus-crew-austin-texas-anthony-precourt-stadium

fergiejr
10-17-2017, 08:10 AM
But what will happen to the Trillium Cup? :-)

Three teams in Texas?

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 08:35 AM
They are gone. Precourt is on the expansion committee. He knows he can't compete with a team in Cincinatti.

MartinUtd
10-17-2017, 09:51 AM
I can't get too upset about this one. Horrible town, bad fans, bad stadium, bad prospects going forward.

Pull the plug.

C.Ronaldo
10-17-2017, 10:11 AM
I can't get too upset about this one. Horrible town, bad fans, bad stadium, bad prospects going forward.

Pull the plug.

but i love hating them. i would prefer the situation fixed. ownership isnt exactly top notch

fergiejr
10-17-2017, 10:53 AM
I can't get too upset about this one. Horrible town, bad fans, bad stadium, bad prospects going forward.

Pull the plug.

Good beer at the stadium? :drinking:

Canary10
10-17-2017, 10:55 AM
I think it's appalling personally. Everything that's wrong with North American sports and franchises.

shwade
10-17-2017, 11:05 AM
I hope the Revs and their shitty stadium and owner are next.

Alixir
10-17-2017, 11:22 AM
I hope the Revs and their shitty stadium and owner are next.
this x 1000

MartinUtd
10-17-2017, 11:26 AM
I think it's appalling personally. Everything that's wrong with North American sports and franchises.


These aren't 120 year old community born clubs though. They're a product of their environment and even though it's not my money, i'd be even more appalled if they try to hit up taxpayers for a new stadium.

James17930
10-17-2017, 11:43 AM
They are gone. Precourt is on the expansion committee. He knows he can't compete with a team in Cincinatti.

But having the rivalry with Cincinatti seems like it could be something to get them going again. Especially if they can get a new downtown stadium.

Columbus needs a better 'rival' than us, who don't give a shit about said rivalry at all.

BenRhodes23
10-17-2017, 12:08 PM
but i love hating them. i would prefer the situation fixed. ownership isnt exactly top notch

Agreed. The game against them is always a good one. Plus, 3 teams in Texas is stupid.

Initial B
10-17-2017, 12:11 PM
If they do move to Austin, what does that do to the bid in San Antonio? Would MLS allow 4 teams in Texas?

Wagner
10-17-2017, 12:11 PM
Austin Villa is genius.

bye bye Krew.

they must have the data showing that Cincinnati will devour their market.

C.Ronaldo
10-17-2017, 12:13 PM
this x 1000

this / .001

Canary10
10-17-2017, 12:30 PM
These aren't 120 year old community born clubs though. They're a product of their environment and even though it's not my money, i'd be even more appalled if they try to hit up taxpayers for a new stadium.

Agreed on the money for a stadium (although TFC has a major bucks owner and benefited from public contribution to the stadium). But I don't think a team leaving should be celebrated. Maybe not 120 but they're 20 years there. Sad.

SmokedPanda
10-17-2017, 01:24 PM
Agreed on the money for a stadium (although TFC has a major bucks owner and benefited from public contribution to the stadium). But I don't think a team leaving should be celebrated. Maybe not 120 but they're 20 years there. Sad.

you wouldn't celebrate if the argos went belly up? not even a smirk?

owners are always threatening to relocate these days when their city won't chip in tax dollars for a new stadium

ensco
10-17-2017, 01:51 PM
I don’t believe this downtown stadium malarkey for a minute.

The issue is that the Crew, notwithstanding the USMNT thing they have going on there, have never caught on.

Atlanta has changed everything, the way we did 10 years ago.

C.Ronaldo
10-17-2017, 02:00 PM
you wouldn't celebrate if the argos went belly up? not even a smirk?

owners are always threatening to relocate these days when their city won't chip in tax dollars for a new stadium

i dont want the argos or the CFL to disappear, I just want the Argos out of BMO

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 02:39 PM
..

Atlanta has changed everything, the way we did 10 years ago.


This.

Which is why Cincy & Nashville & Sacramento are all getting teams announced in December (I think)

notthesun
10-17-2017, 02:43 PM
I would probably never watch MLS again if TFC were moved. I feel nothing for Columbus usually, but this is a huge slap in the face to their fans.

105
10-17-2017, 03:07 PM
This is just another example of a rich dude trying to get the public to pay for his stadium. When he doesn't get his way, he threatens to leave.

bluelight05
10-17-2017, 03:10 PM
Agreed. The game against them is always a good one. Plus, 3 teams in Texas is stupid.


Austin, Dallas, and Houston are hours apart. Only Austin and San Antonio are close proximity.

BenRhodes23
10-17-2017, 03:22 PM
This.

Which is why Cincy & Nashville & Sacramento are all getting teams announced in December (I think)

And Miami (Beckham United)

BenRhodes23
10-17-2017, 03:23 PM
Austin, Dallas, and Houston are hours apart. Only Austin and San Antonio are close proximity.

I still think it's crazy to have 3 teams in one state when there are only 3 teams in the other country that the league is played in

bluelight05
10-17-2017, 03:36 PM
I still think it's crazy to have 3 teams in one state when there are only 3 teams in the other country that the league is played in

I understand your point but Texas is almost as big as Canada and one of the faster growing states. I used to work in Austin and it is growing like crazy.

ensco
10-17-2017, 04:01 PM
Austin is an interesting choice. Kind of like Columbus (a big college football town) except it's growing, and provides good natural rivalries.

Moving Columbus, regardless of where they go, makes complete sense to any neutral.

But it's tough on Columbus.

BenRhodes23
10-17-2017, 04:16 PM
I understand your point but Texas is almost as big as Canada and one of the faster growing states. I used to work in Austin and it is growing like crazy.

As a business decision it makes sense to ignore Canada in favour of Austin but i think MLS needs to grow the game more in Canada. They released a statement after the USA got knocked out of the World Cup Qualifiers but didn't even mention Canada's failures

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 04:59 PM
Austin, Dallas, and Houston are hours apart. Only Austin and San Antonio are close proximity.

Therein lies a BIG problem for MLS. The San Antonio bid was money from the NBA team backers. Austin has had issues supporting any team in the past, apart from Texas University sports, while San Antonio has shown they can do more.

This is beginning to look like Precourt wanted out, found a place that will pay him more, and ran with it.


Think about it this way - CBus plays in the shadow of Ohio State Football. An Austin team is going to play in the shadow of Texas U Football.

khso11
10-17-2017, 05:09 PM
I think the owner is just bluffing, it takes a lot of resources to move a team, it's a huge risk for them. If nobody cares what he's saying, he'll just go back to counting money and leave the Crew as it is.

ensco
10-17-2017, 05:12 PM
Austin has had issues supporting any team in the past

The past is a different world in these markets.

I think the big revelation in pro sports is the discovery of the urban south.

Oklahoma City, Vegas, Nashville, Austin... no way any of these were pro sports towns 20 years ago. Atlanta pre Olympics was the worst pro sports market in North America. In the 1980s, the Braves were drawing 10,000 people a game (I went to a game with 3,000 people at it in 1988), the Hawks 5,000.

Now these places are in the vanguard.

btw Austin is bigger than Columbus. Check out its population growth rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Gazza_55
10-17-2017, 05:48 PM
They are gone. Precourt is on the expansion committee. He knows he can't compete with a team in Cincinatti.

Actually he's not on the expansion committee anymore. Hasn't been for awhile now.

Gazza_55
10-17-2017, 05:55 PM
This is just another example of a rich dude trying to get the public to pay for his stadium. When he doesn't get his way, he threatens to leave.

First stadium in Columbus was paid 100% by Hunt. Upgrades were also 100% privately financed. No indication yet Precourt wants taxpayer funds.

Auzzy
10-17-2017, 06:40 PM
Austin mayor is apparently also saying he won't help finance a stadium.

Despite Austin being far from the other Texas MLS sites, the summer weather is pretty brutal there as well. Austin is a bit better than Dallas & Houston, but not much. "Among the 50 largest U.S. metro areas, Austin comes in at No. 5 on the index. Ahead of it are Phoenix, Las Vegas, Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston." http://austin.culturemap.com/news/city-life/07-11-13-its-official-weather-index-shows-austin-truly-is-a-summertime-hotspot/

It's great to have teams doing well in places like Atlanta and Orlando, but it's all adding more difficulty to a league that is already very tough in terms of travel and environment. Not happy to have a third team in Texas. Maybe they should move the Frisco, Texas MLS team to Austin instead. :D

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 07:04 PM
Been reading through the Big soccer forum on this one and the verifiable stuff is pretty scummy.



Precourt bought the team with a 10 year do not move clause....unless he took the team to Austin
Crew linked up a few years ago with Austin as their affiliate team and sent many key staff down there
Players were not told prior to today's points
Last payment for next year's season seats were made yesterday
When sold off a few years ago, 3 bids were made for the Crew, 2 by locals, 1 by Precourt - his was an overbid by a large amount
Local businesses in the last 6 months have tried to buy the team outright, 50/50 or even 51/49 so Precourt feels he is still in charge - all rebuffed without even being listened to
the local MLS to Austin group has links to Precourt
the local MLS to Austin group announced they will be doing watch parties of Crew games


Of note:


Austin pols do not want to spend a dime on this and are being lobbied by Columbus business people to make this as difficult for Precourt as possible, in order to make the move untenable
Rumour has it Garber will allow Precourt to take the Crew records with him, including the Star for their MLS Cup win
Bill Archer is a racist ass
there are a lot of good people losing a whole chunk of their lives in all this

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 07:07 PM
First stadium in Columbus was paid 100% by Hunt. Upgrades were also 100% privately financed. No indication yet Precourt wants taxpayer funds.

He has asked for it in Columbus. He has suggested they build on city land in Austin, where he has said he will need some help beyond his own funds.

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 07:18 PM
Oh, and lets just add that MLS trademarked two potential Austin team names back in August.

http://www.mystatesman.com/sports/soccer/mls-trademarks-possible-names-for-potential-austin-franchise/ebRZrUnOnfwMjpYYywBXZL/

mistercorporate
10-17-2017, 07:45 PM
I understand what MLS is doing, purge the barely alive struggling teams/brands/markets and enter the more high potential ones. Noone shed any tears for Chivas, now teams in dying cities like Columbus are being superseded, not sure Austin is that much of an upgrade though. We shall see. Time for MLS to up its game, MLS 4.0 is less than 5 years away.

Red4ever
10-17-2017, 08:09 PM
Bill Archer is a racist ass

[/LIST]

Hahahahaha

OgtheDim
10-17-2017, 09:01 PM
My issue in Columbus is there is a local ownership option which could move the club out of its MLS 1.0 doldrums to something more like Minnesota.

My issue with Austin is Precourt, not a local there either, with a team there is not as good as the San Antonio bid with their ownership. Pissing off the most consistent and successful NBA franchise of the last 10 years is not a good idea.

Oldtimer
10-17-2017, 09:26 PM
From the SI article:


A source with knowledge of the situation said Columbus has been in the bottom three teams of nearly every MLS business metric for a decade.

It's a terrible market compared to the best MLS cities. Sucks for their supporters, but I am not surprised. I remember talking to some tourists from Columbus visiting Toronto the year after they had won the cup, and they had never heard of any pro soccer team in their city.

It's possible that the right owner might have turned it around, but it looks like MLS the business decided to go in a different direction. With the extensive MLS revenue sharing costing all the owners, and places like Atlanta doing so well, patience is probably wearing thin with these old weaker MLS 1.0 markets. Getting rid of Chivas was addition by subtraction, and I'm sure they view Columbus the same way.

If the team is moved, the USL should look into expanding there. A budget team might do ok.

Auzzy
10-17-2017, 09:49 PM
Yes it could be that a move out of Columbus makes economic sense, but the info that OgtheDim posted makes it looks like they (MLS & Precourt) are doing this in a much more scummy fashion than necessary.

dupont
10-17-2017, 09:51 PM
I am not cool with this at all. TFC fans and Crew fans have their differences but this team is from the old tough era of MLS and ripping apart the history is awful to me

DIEHARDTFC
10-17-2017, 10:27 PM
In the NBA I was not happy at all to see the SuperSonics leave a city they had been in for over 40 years and won a title in, leave for OKC. Similarly, I am not a fan of seeing one of the original MLS franchises and a team that has won a championship in that city just up and leave.

It just goes to show how shitty management/ownership can really drastically change the course of a franchise. We're on top of the league now, but had the bloody big deal and the aftershocks of that not happened on Liewickie's watch and we had remained as god awful as we were, I dread to think at how quickly ML$E would have started have backroom conversations about how TFC and and BMO Field were hurting their bottom line and ROI. It might seem farfetched to think that drastically, and obviously Toronto is head and shoulders above Columbus in every aspect of an urban city, but this still serves as a rude reminder of how fast ownership will sell fans down the river to fill their fat pockets.

nonc
10-17-2017, 11:13 PM
What is FC Dallas punishment for having the lowest attendance? Oh wait no they get a bonus point in a game they should have forfeited instead...

Redcoe15
10-17-2017, 11:16 PM
This.

Which is why Cincy & Nashville & Sacramento are all getting teams announced in December (I think)
Detroit will have something to say about that.

mistercorporate
10-17-2017, 11:16 PM
In some ways, Crew should self-relegate themselves to USL and maintain the brand. Austin can setup a new identity. Win-win for all involved.

Kaz
10-18-2017, 09:25 AM
As much as I'd prefer fewer texan teams (3-4 seems high)

Austin is a very different city than it once was. SXSW is a fairly major youth festival and the population is among the most liberal in the state (iirc). 76% of the population is under 44 and 49% of the population is between 20-44 with a median age 2 years younger than Columbus.

A downtown location in Austin could work well.

The major issue is trying to build a stadium. 10 years ago would have been fairly easy. Today it will be much more difficult. Most of the land that could have been easily obtained has been already redeveloped, and the land available though in a better spot than Columbus isn't in the urban area that is desirable.

Fort York Redcoat
10-18-2017, 10:36 AM
Agreed on the money for a stadium (although TFC has a major bucks owner and benefited from public contribution to the stadium). But I don't think a team leaving should be celebrated. Maybe not 120 but they're 20 years there. Sad.

Were they not the first team announced? The first Soccer specific stadium in this league? Lemar Hunt help build this league centered from a little talked about city.

That has nothing to do with how I feel about his club or their fans but to ignore the rest is a disservice.

Couchy81
10-18-2017, 12:59 PM
Been reading through the Big soccer forum on this one and the verifiable stuff is pretty scummy.



Precourt bought the team with a 10 year do not move clause....unless he took the team to Austin
Crew linked up a few years ago with Austin as their affiliate team and sent many key staff down there
Players were not told prior to today's points
Last payment for next year's season seats were made yesterday
When sold off a few years ago, 3 bids were made for the Crew, 2 by locals, 1 by Precourt - his was an overbid by a large amount
Local businesses in the last 6 months have tried to buy the team outright, 50/50 or even 51/49 so Precourt feels he is still in charge - all rebuffed without even being listened to
the local MLS to Austin group has links to Precourt
the local MLS to Austin group announced they will be doing watch parties of Crew games


Of note:


Austin pols do not want to spend a dime on this and are being lobbied by Columbus business people to make this as difficult for Precourt as possible, in order to make the move untenable
Rumour has it Garber will allow Precourt to take the Crew records with him, including the Star for their MLS Cup win
Bill Archer is a racist ass
there are a lot of good people losing a whole chunk of their lives in all this



So did he end up bidding less than what an expansion fee would have been for a fresh Austin team? Because that is what this looks like. Get rid of the crappy team with the incentive of not paying the expansion fee. Win-win for MLS and Precourt.

Red CB Toronto
10-18-2017, 01:28 PM
So did he end up bidding less than what an expansion fee would have been for a fresh Austin team? Because that is what this looks like. Get rid of the crappy team with the incentive of not paying the expansion fee. Win-win for MLS and Precourt.


Yes, less than half.$68M to exact for both the stadium and team.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/08/01/columbus-crew-sold-by-hunt-sports-group-for-record-68-million/&refURL=https://www.google.ca/&referrer=https://www.google.ca/

fergiejr
10-18-2017, 01:40 PM
https://twitter.com/BadMLSComics/status/920678742028181504

(https://twitter.com/BadMLSComics/status/920678742028181504)

ensco
10-18-2017, 02:58 PM
Were they not the first team announced? The first Soccer specific stadium in this league? Lemar Hunt help build this league centered from a little talked about city.

That has nothing to do with how I feel about his club or their fans but to ignore the rest is a disservice.

I dunno. It happens. The Montreal Maroons and New York Americans were foundational NHL franchises, too.

OgtheDim
10-18-2017, 04:31 PM
So did he end up bidding less than what an expansion fee would have been for a fresh Austin team? Because that is what this looks like. Get rid of the crappy team with the incentive of not paying the expansion fee. Win-win for MLS and Precourt.

Yeah, except

a) they are poisoning a relatively mature market that is within a few hundred miles of a probable new team

b) Austin this way screws San Antonio, which is as likely to be a viable market as Austin, with a proven ownership group


I think Austin is not as good as most of the current expansion possibilities.


And absolutely nothing in his makeup indicates Precourt is a decent owner who will make Austin into something more then an MLS 2.0 team.

OgtheDim
10-18-2017, 07:46 PM
So been planned for over a year

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2017/10/18/mls-crew-sc-have-been-working-on-austin-relocation.html?ana=twt

Heart of Stone
10-18-2017, 08:08 PM
Great hangover meals at White Castle and Cracker Barrel will be missed.

Auzzy
10-19-2017, 02:48 AM
We all love to hate Columbus & the Crew, that's understandable. But the more I hear about this situation, the more it pisses me off. Ensco said it right: it's only 10 minutes by car (about 8 km) from downtown Columbus to MAPFRE stadium. Even by transit it's only 30 minutes, which is amazing since Columbus transit mostly sucks -- and not really relevant since so few take it. BTW MAPFRE is walking distance from Ohio State, with a student body of 66k, and over 35k employees.

Why would they want a stadium closer to downtown? It seems like a ruse to just get out of there. Lamar Hunt was a decent MLS 1.0 owner; first soccer-specific stadium, but it needs an upgrade that Precourt doesn't want to pay for. And from what I've read, it seems that since the sale to Precourt, general marketing, or specific attempts to attract an OSU or other distinct crowd, have been absolutely minimal. No guarantee that this specific owner will do any better in Austin.

Remember that Columbus is the largest city in Ohio: City population of almost 1 million, and metro over 2 million. If the owner cared or had a clue, why can't they be as successful as the Cincinnati team hopes to be? (Cincy city pop of 300k; metro over 2 million -- even more decentralized and sprawling than Columbus.)

BTW Salt Lake City is far smaller than Columbus (200k/1.1 million metro), with the stadium in Sandy Utah 23 km from downtown SLC. They do quite well with a good ownership group.

Everything about this seems scummy and weird, from timing, to multi-year preparation, impact on an organic San Antonio bid, and so much more. Of course the team in Frisco, Texas should move first, but they're getting the US Soccer Hall of Fame out there in the middle of nowhere, probably securing the MLS team location for a while.

Fort York Redcoat
10-19-2017, 07:56 AM
I dunno. It happens. The Montreal Maroons and New York Americans were foundational NHL franchises, too.

Right. And although i didn't know that I did know and appreciate some cool old hockey teams.(Remember those old sweaters they began to sell again?).

http://coolspotters.com/files/photos/248014/montreal-maroons-vintage-reebok-heritage-sweater-jersey-profile.jpg

I get they aren't even gone yet but I hope once they are peeps can at least place them in history of the league. Rowdies, Fusion, Chivas etc.

Areathrasher
10-19-2017, 12:48 PM
Are the SG's planning on any "SavetheCrew" banners or fuck you precourt chants?

Oldtimer
10-20-2017, 07:39 AM
Are the SG's planning on any "SavetheCrew" banners or fuck you precourt chants?

I don't know what the Crews groups are doing. I tend to avoid them. #xenophobic #billarcherfans

Maybe Phil has heard something from the supporters union?

molenshtain
10-20-2017, 08:10 AM
It's astonishing the extent to which one voice has tainted an entire fan base for many supporters around the league.

I feel like that says something about the current state of the Crew. Can't put my finger on it though.

molenshtain
10-20-2017, 08:28 AM
Crew beat writer says MLS FO's are increasingly growing sympathetic with the #savetheCrew movement. Long road to saving them but this is good for now.

Honestly the league said the Houston debacle was the last time we'd see relocation. Was a stain on the league for a solid few years and the players, many now in FO's, remember that shit.

Areathrasher
10-20-2017, 08:34 AM
I don't know what the Crews groups are doing. I tend to avoid them. #xenophobic #billarcherfans

Maybe Phil has heard something from the supporters union?

Yea, i'm not particularly fond of them or their fans but if Precourt gets away with this it's sets a dangerous precedent. Should be a coordinated response from fans of all MLS sides to be against this IMO.

Grain of salt and all that...
https://i.imgur.com/g9KZfJ5.jpg

benito
10-20-2017, 09:12 AM
The Crew FO is doing well at sticking it to its fans. I think the 2018 season is going to be really ugly for everyone involved.

http://www.espnfc.us/columbus-crew-sc/story/3235676/columbus-crew-wont-give-refunds-for-2018-season-tickets-amid-move-plans

German21
10-20-2017, 10:40 AM
For support, got the idea since there was a logo already done but it was shit, who ever did it lost alot of the details in our logo.

https://i.imgur.com/jJTAwiy.png

molenshtain
10-20-2017, 10:44 AM
now supposedly there was a bid of 75 million for half the team and Precourt turned them down. He bought the team for 68 Million.

Precourt never wanted a team in Columbus. He just figured out a loophole to not pay an expansion fee for a team in Austin. Bogus backwards bull shit is all I can see. Looking increasingly like Garber got conned and can't figure out a way to go back on his promise and have the league save face.

jabbronies
10-20-2017, 10:47 AM
I don't get some TFC supporters.

For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!

German21
10-20-2017, 10:52 AM
its about hold the city hostage, demanding an inner city stadium or moving them. yes we hate the crew, but put yourself in our their shoes. would you like it if MLSE up and sold the team to else where because they didnt get a new in city stadium?

molenshtain
10-20-2017, 10:57 AM
Furthermore, it is frankly a precedent setter in MLS 3.0. The league was deeply embarrassed and regretful over the fallout of the Dynamo/'Quakes ordeal and for a long time it looked like they learned from their mistake. This suggests otherwise.

Columbus is the shithole we all love to hate. But them moving means anyone can move if things are bad enough/ a new owner is aggressive enough in moving a team.

TheGoodson
10-20-2017, 11:56 AM
I don't get some TFC supporters.

For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!

That's a pretty rich take...

They are an important club in the history of the MLS, they were the first club to have a soccer specific stadium. No offence, if MLSE didn't dump significant money into BMO, our stadium wasn't any better... Even now its only slightly better and a lot worse compared to the majority of the SSS in the MLS. Maybe you are sour do to a bad experience because is Philadelphia any better? Washington? I never had any issue being in Columbus (been there countless times) I always found something to do...

The making of the rivalry was when we were new and it was easy as they were closest.. But I bet if you ask any TFC supporter who do they want to beat the most year in and year out it would probably be Montreal first then Columbus/Vancouver second.. So was it manufactured yes, but now at least there is some animosity mainly due to us being shit for 8/9 years

That being said we don't know the market to justify the bolded part of your comment.. One can assume that the owner has done next to nothing with respect to marketing, promotions, community outreach etc... They don't draw away as there are no star players on the squad.. The same way TFC wasn't a draw till Bradley, Altidore and Giovinco showed up.

The only good think about MLSE is their money, if they didn't own this team and it was run on a shoe string budget averaging 10K a match how long do you think TFC would last?

At the end of the day, the idea from everything I have read is that he (the owner) had no intention of ever keeping the team there. Now its in the open, I hope no one gives him money for a stadium.. As the Austin's mayor is on the record they will not fund a stadium.

If the MLS is complicit and knew this from the start then there are deep issues that need to be discussed .

Areathrasher
10-20-2017, 11:56 AM
and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!

God, the waft of condescension on this is staggering. Well done for completely missing the point.
German21 and molenshtain get the crux of the matter in the posts that followed.

Wagner
10-20-2017, 12:29 PM
I don't get some TFC supporters.

For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!

I admit, I'm in this camp.
The Krew aren't TFC's nemesis.

Leafs Vs Habs
Yanks vs BoSox
Argos vs TiCats

TFC vs Krew??

the first three examples...those teams love to hate each other. The leagues wouldn't be the same if they didn't have those match ups.

I feel bad for the handful of progressive supporters in Columbus.

They'll have Cinci FC soon.

not having the krew isn't going to impact my MLS experience.
I swore off going back to that city a few years back.

No Fan base should be pooped on like this, but why does anyone do anything...because they can.
If Precourt could be stopped, he would be stopped.

jabbronies
10-20-2017, 12:56 PM
At the end of the day, the idea from everything I have read is that he (the owner) had no intention of ever keeping the team there. Now its in the open, I hope no one gives him money for a stadium.. As the Austin's mayor is on the record they will not fund a stadium.

If the MLS is complicit and knew this from the start then there are deep issues that need to be discussed .

The League and the previous ownership have had this in their back pockets since the takeover occurred.


The Columbus Dispatch reports that Precourt’s acquisition of the club from the Hunts included a promise to keep the team in Columbus for 10 years -- but it also included an exit clause for Austin, Texas.
Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/columbus-crew-mls-relocation-austin-texas-why-anthony-precourt-burns-all-bridges#S2U6UJoErgqOwYtr.99

jabbronies
10-20-2017, 12:59 PM
God, the waft of condescension on this is staggering. Well done for completely missing the point.
German21 and molenshtain get the crux of the matter in the posts that followed.

And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.

molenshtain
10-20-2017, 01:02 PM
And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.

That has to do with extraordinarily poor ownership. Columbus is a fine, increasingly progressive young-ish city with a basically downtown stadium and is down the road from a university that has a pop of 40k. They should be doing a lot better than they are.

Areathrasher
10-20-2017, 01:04 PM
And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.

One could say Precourt putting that clause in meant he had no intention of making it work in Columbus...

How about Precourt turning down a $75M offer from the Columbus Partnership for 50% ownership rights? A group that was committed to sorting the stadium situation in Columbus and increasing local sponsorship dollars.

fergiejr
10-20-2017, 02:09 PM
And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this.

as much as TFC in the pre Leiweke years was not working. If MLSE hadn't turned it around, I don't think TFC would be around anymore.

magmadragon
10-20-2017, 02:22 PM
If any of you want to learn more about this gong show, go on reddit and read any one of the couple dozen threads about this mess. I sent an email to the posted MLS contact and I cc'd my ticket rep. It may not be much, but if you give a damn about supporters not get fucked, I encourage you to do the same. If it can happen to the Crew, it can happen to us. We aren't far removed from the dark days.

TheGoodson
10-20-2017, 02:27 PM
as much as TFC in the pre Leiweke years was not working. If MLSE hadn't turned it around, I don't think TFC would be around anymore.

This could have been us

Without MLSE's deep pockets we would be in the same boat....

Mark my words if Montreal doesn't get their shit together, they will be the next one to potentially move. Think about what the owner said in Columbus and then look at Saputo's comments about being a small market team that they can't compete financially. If that happens Saputo will sell the team and they will move to the US somewhere...

Initial B
10-20-2017, 03:41 PM
^ I wonder if Saputo would sell his stake in MLS and move the Impact to the CPL?

As for the Crew, MLS has done it before to San Jose/Chivas/Miami/Tampa so it shouldn't be a surprise, but I think what is sticking in everyone's craw is the way Precourt and MLS have gone about this. They were much more up-front about the other situations, but this has all been done on the hush-hush. For a league that espouses transparency, it's not a good look.

SoccMan2
10-20-2017, 07:54 PM
All I have to say is, “ save the Crew” , no fan base deserves to lose their team!

Oldtimer
10-20-2017, 08:07 PM
https://twitter.com/boatical/status/921518417047445504

Fair comment. The question is, are the Crew losing tonnes of money, is that inevitable, or could the right owner turn it around. I remember when the then "Kansas City Wizards" played in a 10,000 seat baseball park. The right owner turned it around.

Red CB Toronto
10-20-2017, 08:25 PM
https://twitter.com/boatical/status/921518417047445504

Fair comment.

Totally respect that sentiment because at the end of the day a business is a business. To me it's just how this is all going down with the Crew as it currently appears that bothers me ie the smoke and mirrors.

As it's been mentioned it was really getting bad for TFC prior to TL arriving towards the end of 2013. In my Facebook timeline today a five year old memory popped up, it was from the Reds final home game of the 2012 season vs. Montreal. Just look at the crowd. 1-2 more bad seasons and this could be TFC that we are talking about in this thread instead of the Crew.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/174921_10152192828260055_631287241_o.jpg?oh=7c3164 49efa06b1c6960b7eb8c58269e&oe=5A87EFAB&dl=1

OgtheDim
10-20-2017, 08:28 PM
That post assumes




ownership & the league are making the better fiscal move
soccer teams make money - most in the world don't
that said move is neutral to fanbases in both Austin & Cincinnati
that supporter's opinions are based on emotion only

DinamoTFC
10-20-2017, 10:07 PM
https://twitter.com/boatical/status/921518417047445504

Fair comment. The question is, are the Crew losing tonnes of money, is that inevitable, or could the right owner turn it around. I remember when the then "Kansas City Wizards" played in a 10,000 seat baseball park. The right owner turned it around.

I remember back in the day KC was a joke and thought for sure they were getting relocated. The way they turned things around i's actually quite remarkable. There's no reason why the same couldn't be possible in Columbus with the right stadium and marketing.

ensco
10-21-2017, 06:52 AM
“This could have been us”?

No.

- Toronto is the 5th largest MSA in North America, Columbus is 36th.
- We had already demonstrated the financial viability here, the club had consistent sellouts and made money hand over fist the first few years.
- Show me an example of of one of the MLSE comparables (ie the sports conglomerates in NY, Philly, Boston, Denver, LA) selling one of their teams. If it were going to happen somewhere, it would be with the Rapids, who have never really shown anything close to what we showed 2007-2010. But that's a top 10 MSA, and it's part of a sports marketing/broadcasting monopoly strategy - there's no way. Kroenke will sell it all, or nothing, he'd never sell any of it piecemeal. Same for the others.

Those were “dark days”, but only in fan terms. In business terms, TFC in 2013 was a poorly run asset, not an asset whose viability was in question. (btw TFC has probably lost more money 2014-17, than it made 2007-10, but that is for another thread)

Columbus played the second leg in the second round of the playoffs two years ago against Montreal in front of thousands of empty seats. (This wasn't one of the play in games midweek, played on three days notice, that often have empty seats.) That is not what happened in Colorado btw - I looked it up, people showed up and froze their asses for both playoff games last year.

You think we would have big empty sections for a playoff game here? The commentators on that Columbus-Montreal game were openly speculating about the viability of the team.

I do have one big problem with this, and it’s with the idea that no refunds to season ticket holders will be offered. I hope some SSHs there sue the owners ass and win on that.

Canary10
10-21-2017, 07:18 AM
Is Columbus doing that bad and losing fistfuls of money? I never got that impression. But I honestly don't know. I always thought Dallas, Colorado, etc were the teams struggling to get fans in seats. It feels like a bit if a manufactured 'crisis.'

ensco
10-21-2017, 07:44 AM
Is Columbus doing that bad and losing fistfuls of money? I never got that impression. But I honestly don't know. I always thought Dallas, Colorado, etc were the teams struggling to get fans in seats. It feels like a bit if a manufactured 'crisis.'

I think they lose a bit of money, but it's more that they don't see a way to change the paradigm and make a lot money, the way KC did. They are on the treadmill to nowhere.

Columbus is hiding behind the stadium issue, they have a good enough SSS 5 minutes from downtown. I think it's made up issue, they'd renovate Crew Stadium if they thought that investment would pay off. I just don't think they have the numbers of fans, actual and latent, to make it work. I have no idea if Austin will be better, it's plausible that it would be. But I think it's obvious that Columbus sucks as a market. That team should have been in Cleveland or Cincinnati to begin with. It's bizarre that the Hunts went there to begin with.. (The Blue Jackets will eventually move too. Same problem in the long run.)

Precourt sees himself not as a stockholder but as a “stuckholder”. He wants to get un-stuck.

I find Colorado the most mystifying situation in the league. They are not in the deep boonies like Dallas, they have a gorgeous stadium half an hour from everyhwere (but not actually near anything, maybe that is part of it), and that is a big, sports crazed market. It's weird. It may have something to do with the fact that the team has mostly sucked the last 5-6 years.

noimpactinmtl
10-21-2017, 10:48 AM
I think they lose a bit of money, but it's more that they don't see a way to change the paradigm and make a lot money, the way KC did. They are on the treadmill to nowhere.

Columbus is hiding behind the stadium issue, they have a good enough SSS 5 minutes from downtown. I think it's made up issue, they'd renovate Crew Stadium if they thought that investment would pay off. I just don't think they have the numbers of fans, actual and latent, to make it work. I have no idea if Austin will be better, it's plausible that it would be. But I think it's obvious that Columbus sucks as a market. That team should have been in Cleveland or Cincinnati to begin with. It's bizarre that the Hunts went there to begin with.. (The Blue Jackets will eventually move too. Same problem in the long run.)

Precourt sees himself not as a stockholder but as a “stuckholder”. He wants to get un-stuck.

I find Colorado the most mystifying situation in the league. They are not in the deep boonies like Dallas, they have a gorgeous stadium half an hour from everyhwere (but not actually near anything, maybe that is part of it), and that is a big, sports crazed market. It's weird. It may have something to do with the fact that the team has mostly sucked the last 5-6 years.

Mapfre Stadium is in the middle of the fairground completely isolated by a rail line to the west and nothing within vicinity for bars. It wouldn't be so bad if it's accessible by public transit, but it's Columbus, meaning there's nothing for public transit options. BMO Field might be on Ex grounds, but there's a streetcar line and GO Trains two minutes away. Not to mention Liberty Village's growing bar scene where you can do European style pub crawls. All you have near Mapfre is a Rona's north of it.

Either the Crew renovates Mapfre and the city develop public transit options or the Crew moves downtown and build a better stadium with their own money while Columbus uses that as an excuse to build an LRT line.

ensco
10-21-2017, 12:02 PM
^Sure a nice new stadium would do better. Same as it would here. I could argue that a 50K SSS would work in TO if it was nice and you put it where Skydome is.

You can cross the entire city of Columbus in 15 minutes. It's 5-7 minutes from downtown.

Columbus' situation isn't remotely like KC or Boston. The stadium isn’t the real issue.

Hamilton_Red
10-21-2017, 01:14 PM
Yes I am with the #savethecrew. I think the American view of "franchises that are the owners plaything" is shite. A promotion relegation system would allow an Austin to work up to the MLS level and if uns-supported Columbus to move to a lower division. Billionaire owners extracting tax subsidy by ransoming their teams is plain wrong. The precedent needs to be stopped. I'd be with a movement to boycot games with the relocated team to send the league the message.

From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive. I would not like to play them in the play-offs if it goes the way of the latter. The other thing is that is that Columbus is a reasonable road trip distance for Toronto...not so Austin.

paul-collins
10-21-2017, 01:26 PM
From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive.
Something like this?

https://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/tw/twvod093008/twvod093008_fullsize_story1.jpg

RedsYNWA
10-21-2017, 02:56 PM
This downtown stadium is BS in my opinion. Columbus is a small city less than 30 min gets you everywhere. I along with countless others travel from Burlington/Oakville to see TFC. So its either 20$ for the GO or 20$ for parking plus the time (1 hour+ sometimes 2) Plus the drinks/food/cab or uber. It has always been a 100$ plus day sometimes 200 for each game, That is not including the cost of tickets. We have been season seat holders since day 1 & stuck with the team during the bad years. So cry me a river people that fork out a TTC fare or people in Ohio that could not be bothered with a 30 min commute. Support your team or lose it

Detroit_TFC
10-22-2017, 09:18 AM
Yes, there is the precedent of teams moving. In this case (and in that case, but that's history now) it should be opposed and MLSE bigwigs should be lobbied to oppose this move at the MLS Board level. Why? It doesn't make sense for the league. It's not meeting some unfulfilled demand for a team in Austin. If the Crew was sold to Precourt with the understanding that the league would support eventual movement of the team to Austin, it should have been rejected by the Board at the time. If the operator-investor can't make the business work, let him step out.

MLS is so full of absurdities and double standards, it is mind bending. It functions as a franchise system but then here decides that no, this team is the property of an investor and if he wants to move it, it's his to do so. More and more I see the need to fight the concept of franchise, and eventually make the changes necessary to make MLS in to an independent club run league. It may take a 100 years (hopefully not) but the current not-fish/not-fowl structure seems increasingly regressive and no longer serves its original purpose to nurture the infant league.

Redcoe15
10-22-2017, 11:43 AM
There have been plenty of example of franchises in other sports moving to another town for the slimiest of reasons. Robert Irsey moving the Colts from Baltimore to Indianapolis. Norm Green moving the Stars from Minnesota to Dallas. Michael Heisley moving the Grizzlies from Vancouver to Memphis. But eventually everyone got over it, accepted it and moved on.

I'm not one hundred percent certain Anthony Precourt will move the Crew out of Columbus and into Austin. Nobody in the Texas capital is chomping at the bit for an MLS team, much less an existing one looking for a new home. And, from what I've read, there isn't any land within the city core to put a stadium in, something MLS is definitely insisting on now, and zero interest in providing public money to build it.

But if it should come to pass, we all need to accept it and move on. Soccer is no different than any of the other major league sports in these neck of the woods. And given their traditionally poor attendance figures, it isn't as if there's no reason for the Crew not to move.

MLS will never abandon the franchise structure and have independently run clubs, nor other traditional methods like promotion/relegation, like they do in Europe and around the world. Financially, logistically, it would just do the league more harm than good.

TheGoodson
10-22-2017, 02:49 PM
Another reason I think this is all grandstanding by the league and the owner is to squeeze Columbus is that San Antonio wants a team and its backed by the San Antonio Spurs. IMO I would guess it’s a better sports market and is backed by the best run sports organization in all of NA. Why would they go to Austin with no government help for a stadium and from what I hear no land in the downtown core. Plus there is no way they would put 4 teams in Texas. Also, the owners would be giving up all of that additional revenue that an expansion fee would bring.

jabbronies
10-23-2017, 09:17 AM
I just want to quote this for those who may have missed it.



“This could have been us”?

No.

- Toronto is the 5th largest MSA in North America, Columbus is 36th.
- We had already demonstrated the financial viability here, the club had consistent sellouts and made money hand over fist the first few years.
- Show me an example of of one of the MLSE comparables (ie the sports conglomerates in NY, Philly, Boston, Denver, LA) selling one of their teams. If it were going to happen somewhere, it would be with the Rapids, who have never really shown anything close to what we showed 2007-2010. But that's a top 10 MSA, and it's part of a sports marketing/broadcasting monopoly strategy - there's no way. Kroenke will sell it all, or nothing, he'd never sell any of it piecemeal. Same for the others.

Those were “dark days”, but only in fan terms. In business terms, TFC in 2013 was a poorly run asset, not an asset whose viability was in question. (btw TFC has probably lost more money 2014-17, than it made 2007-10, but that is for another thread)

Columbus played the second leg in the second round of the playoffs two years ago against Montreal in front of thousands of empty seats. (This wasn't one of the play in games midweek, played on three days notice, that often have empty seats.) That is not what happened in Colorado btw - I looked it up, people showed up and froze their asses for both playoff games last year.

You think we would have big empty sections for a playoff game here? The commentators on that Columbus-Montreal game were openly speculating about the viability of the team.

I do have one big problem with this, and it’s with the idea that no refunds to season ticket holders will be offered. I hope some SSHs there sue the owners ass and win on that.

jabbronies
10-23-2017, 09:20 AM
Yes I am with the #savethecrew. I think the American view of "franchises that are the owners plaything" is shite. A promotion relegation system would allow an Austin to work up to the MLS level and if uns-supported Columbus to move to a lower division. Billionaire owners extracting tax subsidy by ransoming their teams is plain wrong. The precedent needs to be stopped. I'd be with a movement to boycot games with the relocated team to send the league the message.

From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive. I would not like to play them in the play-offs if it goes the way of the latter. The other thing is that is that Columbus is a reasonable road trip distance for Toronto...not so Austin.

It's funny you bring this up - because if there was Pro/Rel in North America - Columbus probably wouldn't exist anymore - they'd probably go into bankruptcy like many team in Europe are going through. Only difference is there are probably not enough people who would care in Columbus if it happened.

jabbronies
10-23-2017, 09:23 AM
Another reason I think this is all grandstanding by the league and the owner is to squeeze Columbus is that San Antonio wants a team and its backed by the San Antonio Spurs. IMO I would guess it’s a better sports market and is backed by the best run sports organization in all of NA. Why would they go to Austin with no government help for a stadium and from what I hear no land in the downtown core. Plus there is no way they would put 4 teams in Texas. Also, the owners would be giving up all of that additional revenue that an expansion fee would bring.

Are you speaking on fact with that last comment or just a hunch?

remember this is a single run entity league. If columbus is loosing money - that means all teams are "Loosing" money.

if the additional revenue from expansion that much more to offset years of loses?

fergiejr
10-23-2017, 09:24 AM
But hasn't it been us before? (ie Blizzard, Lynx, RoadRunners, Toronto Nationals, etc) If TFC kept bleeding money and season seat holders, MLSE would not have held onto the team. MLSE is not in this for the fans, it is in this for the bucks. Make no mistake about that. Big Tim sold them on the idea of splashing cash and that idea worked.

Toronto is a fickle fanbase, if you don't win no one goes to the games - the Leafs are the exception to that rule.

Fort York Redcoat
10-23-2017, 10:24 AM
Um what's all this "stadium is shit" talk?

There are better stadiums now but I was jelly of their real grass first and now I'm jelly of the soccer specific title they've kept the whole time. They even held onto the team name of the stadium for as long as they could.

The location is terrible but as a player it wouldn't be the worst place to play in MLS.

Oh and I felt for Columbites when they put that shitty stage on one side.

ensco
10-25-2017, 01:34 PM
The Crew fix the thing that everyone knows they screwed up. How they got this wrong in the first place is inexplicable. Kudos to them for fixing it, I guess

https://www.columbuscrewsc.com/post/2017/10/25/precourt-sports-ventures-offers-statement-regarding-2018-columbus-crew-sc-season/

Oldtimer
10-28-2017, 04:13 PM
Four four two article, written before the refund announcement. It could happen to any team if attendance drops.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/columbus-crew-fans-react-austin-relocation-everything-wrong-mls?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_m_medium=t

ensco
10-30-2017, 01:12 PM
Did MLS screw San Antonio over on this? I am not sure whether they have a legal case (did MLS have a duty to disclose the pre-existence of the Austin option?) but it sure seems like they acted in bad faith, at a minimum.

http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Wolff-asks-DA-to-investigate-MLS-in-Toyota-Field-12316966.php

sidvan
10-30-2017, 02:22 PM
The Crew fix the thing that everyone knows they screwed up. How they got this wrong in the first place is inexplicable. Kudos to them for fixing it, I guess

https://www.columbuscrewsc.com/post/2017/10/25/precourt-sports-ventures-offers-statement-regarding-2018-columbus-crew-sc-season/

Seems to me that you would be enhancing Precourt's claims that the Crew are not viable in Columbus if you are not supporting the team by asking for a refund for 2018.

Initial B
10-31-2017, 07:47 AM
They're saying on Big Soccer that they have 17,000 tickets sold for the game tonight, but there has been ZERO advertising by the Crew Organization - all the interest is being drummed up by the fans. And who's idea was it to schedule for Hallowe'en night?! It's like the ownership *wants* them to fail. It's really weird.

Oldtimer
10-31-2017, 08:08 AM
But hasn't it been us before? (ie Blizzard, Lynx, RoadRunners, Toronto Nationals, etc) If TFC kept bleeding money and season seat holders, MLSE would not have held onto the team. MLSE is not in this for the fans, it is in this for the bucks. Make no mistake about that. Big Tim sold them on the idea of splashing cash and that idea worked.

Toronto is a fickle fanbase, if you don't win no one goes to the games - the Leafs are the exception to that rule.

It's a misconception that the Blizzard were losing money. The Blizzard made money, at least as long as they were in the original NASL, it's just that their league disappeared out from under them.

denime
10-31-2017, 07:15 PM
Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

OgtheDim
10-31-2017, 08:13 PM
They had what....4 days to sell this game? And its Hallowe'en. Sure, we got 28K last year for the equivalent game, but that was on a Sunday night, not Hallowe'en & TFC had been selling that playoff round game for weeks.

Does anybody seriously think Precourt is putting anything into marketing right now?


And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

Canary10
10-31-2017, 09:46 PM
Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

Red Bulls should move too if playoff attendance is the metric. Ottawa anyone?

noimpactinmtl
10-31-2017, 09:52 PM
Reports are saying long lineups at Mapfre, half the gates are closed and no wands for security. Thorough padding down and getting into the stadium is borderline impossible.

Ultra & Proud
10-31-2017, 09:58 PM
Red Bulls should move too if playoff attendance is the metric. Ottawa anyone?

Red Bull Arena was way more empty and way more sad than Columbus. I agree with you. By those metrics you might as well empty out that stadium in the off season and move them to Nashville.

spe18
10-31-2017, 10:02 PM
They had what....4 days to sell this game? And its Hallowe'en. Sure, we got 28K last year for the equivalent game, but that was on a Sunday night, not Hallowe'en & TFC had been selling that playoff round game for weeks.

Does anybody seriously think Precourt is putting anything into marketing right now?


And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

Vancouver had close to a sell out in their mid week game last week. And Montreal had a sell out too mid week last year :D

glaze
10-31-2017, 10:07 PM
From what I remember we didn't sell out the playoffs until the semi final last year. For sure sections were empty for the Philly game.

Ultra & Proud
10-31-2017, 10:12 PM
From what I remember we didn't sell out the playoffs until the semi final last year. For sure sections were empty for the Philly game.

Yeah but there was still 20K+.

ryan
10-31-2017, 10:25 PM
Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

Lots of comments on social media proving they made stadium entry a slow painful process.

Precourt did this on purpose.

The crowd filled in pretty well for a Tuesday/Halloween.


Looking forward to TFC filling more seats at MAPFRE and generating elevated atmosphere in the east final.

PizzaEatingYeti
11-01-2017, 12:05 AM
And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

True that... just look at this first leg of 2nd round playoffs matches:
Except the Vancouver game, the 3 other stadiums where at best just half full!

Anyways, this is pathetic for MLS, because in all the other 4 pro American sports any playoff game is a sellout, no matter at all what day of the week and at what hour are they played.
This is a very strong proof that MLS playoffs are viewed in a totally different manner than playoffs for those 4 "main" sports.

Hey MLS, what the hell you'll going to do about this situation in future editions?
Around the World I guess a lot more footy fans are tuning into MLS when it's playoff time, and seeing these empty looking stadiums makes MLS look a more Mickey mouse league than what in reality it is.

paul-collins
11-01-2017, 10:45 AM
Anyways, this is pathetic for MLS, because in all the other 4 pro American sports any playoff game is a sellout,
Red Wings? Braves?

theaub
11-01-2017, 10:53 AM
The Red Wings and Braves were both, in part, because of playoff fatigue - not the case in these situations.

Just absolutely disastrous scheduling from MLS for this round IMO. Going up against MNF/WS can't be any better for ratings than going up against the struggling NFL, and early weeknight games are always going to draw far worse than weekend games which reflects poorly for anyone watching on TV. I somewhat understand the mid-week schedule for the conference finals when you have a couple of weeks to sell tickets.

MAPFRE looked far more full than RBA or Houston - feel like they may be sandbagging the attendance a bit.

ag futbol
11-01-2017, 11:22 AM
I know the sad reality is TV time slots rule the day when it comes to scheduling (along with the international schedule). However, I think between the rise of alternative methods of distribution and MLS’s younger fan base will be in a good position one day to stick to a consistent time slots.

Take the NFL for example. I don’t even care to watch but I could recite from memory every time slot they play within a week. That had a lot of value in terms of building viewership.

For MLS to continue to grow, they will have to on air at the same time as some bigger draws. It’s inevitable.

ManUtd4ever
11-01-2017, 12:50 PM
But having the rivalry with Cincinatti seems like it could be something to get them going again. Especially if they can get a new downtown stadium.

Columbus needs a better 'rival' than us, who don't give a shit about said rivalry at all.

It's a nice thought, but Ohio can't support 2 MLS franchises.

OgtheDim
11-01-2017, 07:18 PM
They are not leaving until after next season.

glaze
11-01-2017, 11:24 PM
Red Wings? Braves?

Ottawa Senators couldn't sell out the Eastern Conference Finals last year.....

molenshtain
11-02-2017, 02:16 AM
It's a nice thought, but Ohio can't support 2 MLS franchises.

Especially with Nashville looking likely to be in the next round of expansion. Too many teams in the same market.

paul-collins
11-02-2017, 08:01 AM
Ottawa Senators couldn't sell out the Eastern Conference Finals last year.....
And that's actually more consistent with the Crew's situation, although the move to a new arena is into downtown of the same city, instead of threatened to be elsewhere.

Poor marketing, poor pricing, poor service, all conspired to discourage fans from making the trek.

molenshtain
11-08-2017, 02:43 AM
Nashville just got a stadium deal. This means the owners, who will inevitably be the people who end up choosing if this does go through, have a choice to make. There will be some combination of Cincinnati, Nashville and Columbus in this league within 5-7 years. They all basically draw from the same National Media Market. They have to decide which 2 of the 3 they think are most viable for the future of the league.

kodiakTFC
11-08-2017, 11:21 AM
Nashville just got a stadium deal. This means the owners, who will inevitably be the people who end up choosing if this does go through, have a choice to make. There will be some combination of Cincinnati, Nashville and Columbus in this league within 5-7 years. They all basically draw from the same National Media Market. They have to decide which 2 of the 3 they think are most viable for the future of the league.

With Miami stalling it would be nice if they just announced Cincy, Nashville, and Sacramento.

105
11-08-2017, 01:00 PM
What's the end goal with expansion? 32 teams? Two 16 team conferences?

woolly
11-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Educated guess would be the Don rolling around in an olympic sized pool full of money.


What's the end goal with expansion? 32 teams? Two 16 team conferences?

redcard
11-08-2017, 02:54 PM
What's the end goal with expansion? 32 teams? Two 16 team conferences?

With 16 teams, I don think the playoff format would be viable. Right now we have 12 teams in, and the cup final is in December.

Unless they ignore the FIFA break, I don't know how they could add more teams.

105
11-08-2017, 03:52 PM
With 16 teams, I don think the playoff format would be viable. Right now we have 12 teams in, and the cup final is in December.

Unless they ignore the FIFA break, I don't know how they could add more teams.

Maybe they go to single elimination games.

OgtheDim
11-08-2017, 06:51 PM
Maybe they go to single elimination games.

There is serious talk of them doing that for next season.

The season would end the equivalent of last weekend, 2 week international break, then 3 weekends of cup/playoffs football for 16 teams. 4 rounds.

Would give time for the World Cup break.

ryan
11-09-2017, 12:04 AM
There is serious talk of them doing that for next season.

The season would end the equivalent of last weekend, 2 week international break, then 3 weekends of cup/playoffs football for 16 teams. 4 rounds.

Would give time for the World Cup break.


Wouldn't call reducing the amount of playoff games anything close to "serious". Money always wins and reducing games is anti that.

Blindside16
11-09-2017, 12:46 AM
What's the end goal with expansion? 32 teams? Two 16 team conferences?

I'm not sure on the end game, but mid term is 28 teams.

DinamoTFC
11-09-2017, 11:21 PM
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/8/16618962/columbus-crew-relocation-austin-financial-records&ved=0ahUKEwj00fHDkrPXAhVD04MKHewsB4UQqQIIKSgBMAE&usg=AOvVaw19uf2nqxbiYfaqRy1Yquae

Columbus Crew might move because 'business is struggling.' Financial records suggest otherwise

Article suggests owner is lying and the club isn't doing bad financially. The team has been paying $50k in rent per year and $72k since 2004 due to inflation. Stadium lease expires in 6 years and this is posturing for a new stadium in either city.

Owner looks to be a snake and this sets a bad precedent.

OgtheDim
11-10-2017, 06:42 AM
The biggest twitter account in support of the move to Austin forgot yesterday to turn off the geo location.

Turns out the account, that is more than 3 years old, is in Columbus.

Derko
11-10-2017, 07:08 AM
I am not going to show any support for anything related or relating to the Crew relocation until the Eastern Conference Finals have been won by TFC.

JT Red127
11-10-2017, 07:40 AM
The move is already finalized, they possibly are moving next year...if not, 100% for the 2019 season.

ensco
11-29-2017, 11:27 PM
I sat a few rows under the Columbus support tonight. They were total class all night, very friendly, and they brought it for their team.

I salute them. Tonight may well be the end of the road. Without getting into the business realities, it's incredibly tough for those great fans that do care.

Globetrotter
11-29-2017, 11:35 PM
If they move, isn't it in 2019? There's still a full season to go.

Redcoe15
11-29-2017, 11:38 PM
If they do move to Austin, and MLS awards Cincinnati an expansion team, will they make our side play for the Trillium Cup with the new Ohio team?

ensco
11-30-2017, 07:12 AM
If they move, isn't it in 2019? There's still a full season to go.

I think it's 50/50. There's a lot of vitriol there for Precourt now. Attendance will be total crap.

I think if the Crew/league can make the legalities work, they'll go early.

paul-collins
11-30-2017, 10:45 AM
I sat a few rows under the Columbus support tonight. They were total class all night, very friendly, and they brought it for their team.

I salute them. Tonight may well be the end of the road. Without getting into the business realities, it's incredibly tough for those great fans that do care.

Yes I've only seen Montreal represent that strongly (numbers and passion) and these folks were significantly more classy.

Sucks for them.

I would have liked for us to have been ready with a #SaveTheCrew something or other for after the game, but I understand people wouldn't want to tempt fate (like Derko said, above). So maybe people can do something at the final?

Oldtimer
11-30-2017, 12:31 PM
If they do move to Austin, and MLS awards Cincinnati an expansion team, will they make our side play for the Trillium Cup with the new Ohio team?

You know that they will. Fake rivalry is a league mandate.

Oldtimer
11-30-2017, 12:32 PM
Yes I've only seen Montreal represent that strongly (numbers and passion) and these folks were significantly more classy.

Sucks for them.

I would have liked for us to have been ready with a #SaveTheCrew something or other for after the game, but I understand people wouldn't want to tempt fate (like Derko said, above). So maybe people can do something at the final?

I think that #savethecrew is totally appropriate when we aren't playing them.

Initial B
11-30-2017, 01:04 PM
Maybe an MLS Cup tifo, "Rivals on the field, we stand with you #SaveTheCrew"?

cmonyoureds
11-30-2017, 03:29 PM
You know that they will. Fake rivalry is a league mandate.

Always laugh at this.
They created the "Trillium Cup" but the supporters had to create the shield for the league winners.
You can't make this stuff up.

T.O TILL I DIE
12-01-2017, 12:51 AM
Werent we once derby enemies. I think we need to stop with this #SaveThecrew business what happened to the good ole days. "We all laugh at the yellow football team". Columbus fans boo Altidore and Bradley every touch they got, there fans arent the nicest towards ours either. Just my opinion..

molenshtain
12-01-2017, 12:56 AM
Werent we once derby enemies. I think we need to stop with this #SaveThecrew business what happened to the good ole days. "We all laugh at the yellow football team". Columbus fans boo Altidore and Bradley every touch they got, there fans arent the nicest towards ours either. Just my opinion..

same could be said about Montreal. I would never want them to go under. Disliking them is a defining feature of my fandom for TFC. If they were to go I'd be none too pleased.

Similar sentiment Celtic fans had when Rangers went under. Hate them, but it's better to hate them than not have them at all.

Hamilton_Red
12-01-2017, 01:27 AM
As Celtic fan..I'd take exception to that comparison. I don't think there is a single Celtic fan that would shed a tear for Rangers disappearance, they would celebrate it. I like having Columbus as a very good competitor to TFC. There really isn't any hate there. Impact - now that is a proper rivalry. But Celtic and Rangers...there is no real comparison to that.

T.O TILL I DIE
12-01-2017, 11:11 AM
same could be said about Montreal. I would never want them to go under. Disliking them is a defining feature of my fandom for TFC. If they were to go I'd be none too pleased.

Similar sentiment Celtic fans had when Rangers went under. Hate them, but it's better to hate them than not have them at all.
Ya i agree with what your saying. I wouldnt want to see the Crew go under but i have no idea why another team with derby "enemy" history to dispay so much support. You just wouldnt see that for big league rivalrys.I read somewhere someone saying we should have #SaveTheCrew as a banner or show a banner of support. I think the support for the Toronto @ Columbus game was enough by our supporters.

ryan
12-01-2017, 12:09 PM
I think this sort of thing can be both.

You want them to exist because if they don't, you can't enjoy hating them and beating them.

However if they do go (which is entirely out of your own hands,) you can also enjoy laughing at their misery.

molenshtain
12-03-2017, 01:14 AM
However if they do go (which is entirely out of your own hands,) you can also enjoy laughing at their misery.


This is the crux of the issue. Banter aside, I find laughing at their misery particularly shameful and disrespectful in a way that crosses the line. A lot of people are getting something they've invested a lot of time, money and energy caring about ripped away from them. For some it may be a massive part of who they are. All of that is getting taken away from them, much in the same way any team could be taken away in this league. Laughing and derision is an ironically distasteful reaction to this.

Imagine our club was getting taken away on the whim of some billionaire and other teams decided to laugh at us instead of support us. I would be distraught. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Laughing at their misery doesn't do anything but make our fan base look bad (the Texan flag and Welcome to Austin sign hung in the south end were noticed and derided by US soccer twitter). It's not a good look really is what I'm saying.

PizzaEatingYeti
12-03-2017, 06:12 AM
This is the crux of the issue. Banter aside, I find laughing at their misery particularly shameful and disrespectful in a way that crosses the line. A lot of people are getting something they've invested a lot of time, money and energy caring about. For some it may be a massive part of who they are. All of that is getting taken away from them, much in the same way any team could be taken away in this league. Laughing and derision is an ironically distasteful reaction to this.

Imagine our club was getting taken away on the whim of some billionaire and other teams decided to laugh at us instead of support us. I would be distraught. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Laughing at their misery doesn't do anything but make our fan base look bad (the Texan flag and Welcome to Austin sign hung in the south end were noticed and derided by US soccer twitter). It's not a good look really is what I'm saying.

Very true!

TerryTheTerror
12-03-2017, 11:30 PM
This is the crux of the issue. Banter aside, I find laughing at their misery particularly shameful and disrespectful in a way that crosses the line. A lot of people are getting something they've invested a lot of time, money and energy caring about ripped away from them. For some it may be a massive part of who they are. All of that is getting taken away from them, much in the same way any team could be taken away in this league. Laughing and derision is an ironically distasteful reaction to this.

Imagine our club was getting taken away on the whim of some billionaire and other teams decided to laugh at us instead of support us. I would be distraught. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Laughing at their misery doesn't do anything but make our fan base look bad (the Texan flag and Welcome to Austin sign hung in the south end were noticed and derided by US soccer twitter). It's not a good look really is what I'm saying.

Totally agree with this.

DIEHARDTFC
12-04-2017, 12:54 AM
Spoke with a few of their supporters post match outside of BMO - echoing some of the other comments on here, they were nothing but class. Even as a friend and I spoke to a few of the guys in yellow, some of our supporters walking by started the Austin Texas chants and the crew fans let it go...although I don't think they had much choice, anyway.

As per my earlier post, I don't like this situation at all. It is a cold reality that a perfect storm of selfish, callous ownership, a few bad seasons and some horrible luck that really turn any franchise into a dark place. It's my own naive see-the-whole-world-as-glass-half-full attitude, but besides the SJ to HOU fiasco (chalk up to a one off, of sorts) and the Florida contractions (done for the better of the league at the time), I always thought that MLS' embracing supporters culture would deny franchise movement similar to what we see in other NA sports leagues. Reality is that MLS is no different than the NBA/NHL/NFL/MLB, supporters be damned.

ensco
12-04-2017, 08:11 AM
This issue is fundamentally why I gave up my SSH in 2013. (I had good seats and spent about $20K over the first six years.)

Those years taught me the bitter realities of the relationship between fans and ownership, in a way somehow that a lifetime supporting the Leafs (I was an SSH there too) never did.

Ownership and management were just so cynical towards us.

It's better now, but we're always only one board meeting away from everything changing.

DinamoTFC
12-04-2017, 10:32 AM
I just feel like a renaissance can occur for the Crew in the same way it did for Sporting KC when they got a new stadium. I had no hope aand was extremely dissapointed by KC when they were the wizards. But what a turnaround with a new stadium and name change.

ryan
12-04-2017, 11:12 AM
This is the crux of the issue. Banter aside, I find laughing at their misery particularly shameful and disrespectful in a way that crosses the line. A lot of people are getting something they've invested a lot of time, money and energy caring about ripped away from them. For some it may be a massive part of who they are. All of that is getting taken away from them, much in the same way any team could be taken away in this league. Laughing and derision is an ironically distasteful reaction to this.

Imagine our club was getting taken away on the whim of some billionaire and other teams decided to laugh at us instead of support us. I would be distraught. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Laughing at their misery doesn't do anything but make our fan base look bad (the Texan flag and Welcome to Austin sign hung in the south end were noticed and derided by US soccer twitter). It's not a good look really is what I'm saying.


I assure you nobody in Columbus would shed a tear if Toronto failed in MLS. You're naive if you think otherwise. Absolutely nonsense to think they wouldn't be in stitches at our misfortune.

I also disagree we look bad and think the world has gone too far in a world of political correctness and playing nice with sport. I hate my rivals and love every second of it. That's part of what makes sports so great to spend my time on for me. If you want to sign kumbaya and hold hands with Crew fans down the street, be my guest. I won't and I don't have to apologize for it. There's nothing wrong with this, you might not like it, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Areathrasher
12-04-2017, 11:12 AM
This is the crux of the issue. Banter aside, I find laughing at their misery particularly shameful and disrespectful in a way that crosses the line. A lot of people are getting something they've invested a lot of time, money and energy caring about ripped away from them. For some it may be a massive part of who they are. All of that is getting taken away from them, much in the same way any team could be taken away in this league. Laughing and derision is an ironically distasteful reaction to this.

Imagine our club was getting taken away on the whim of some billionaire and other teams decided to laugh at us instead of support us. I would be distraught. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Laughing at their misery doesn't do anything but make our fan base look bad (the Texan flag and Welcome to Austin sign hung in the south end were noticed and derided by US soccer twitter). It's not a good look really is what I'm saying.

Bang on.

T.O TILL I DIE
12-04-2017, 12:23 PM
I assure you nobody in Columbus would shed a tear if Toronto failed in MLS. You're naive if you think otherwise. Absolutely nonsense to think they wouldn't be in stitches at our misfortune.

I also disagree we look bad and think the world has gone too far in a world of political correctness and playing nice with sport. I hate my rivals and love every second of it. That's part of what makes sports so great to spend my time on for me. If you want to sign kumbaya and hold hands with Crew fans down the street, be my guest. I won't and I don't have to apologize for it. There's nothing wrong with this, you might not like it, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Totally agree with you!

paul-collins
12-04-2017, 02:09 PM
Boy, some people are awfully defensive about being called out for making fun of fans who were attending their club's funeral.

DIEHARDTFC
12-04-2017, 02:52 PM
lol who are you going to hate if all your rivals either cease to exist or move to markets where your rivalry becomes irrelevant...

This isn't an issue of all of a sudden feeling all warm and fuzzy for other clubs and watering down any rivalries that may exist. IMHO, this is a much bigger issue in that we as supporters dedicate a lot of time, money and effort to support TFC and also MLS. Again, maybe its my own view but I can separate between hating Cbus for issues on the pitch throughout a regular season and what happens in the boardroom. This issue is bigger than hating a rival, clubs moving cities is bad for MLS in general.

BTW this is all aside from the fact that Austin makes little to no business sense, and adding a franchise there under current CBus ownership adds little value to MLS anyway.

ryan
12-04-2017, 03:08 PM
Mate where have you been for the past 100 years? This is how pro sports in North America works. It's not new. It's how it is. Nobody is changing it. How much time money and love was poured into the San Diego Chargers? Cleveland Browns? Winnipeg Jets? Montreal Expos? Seattle Supersonics? MLS isn't special, it's playing the same game in the same economy.

If you think a social media tweeteroo is going to stop some rich dudes from moving their plaything to where they want you're a bit nuts IMO. There's a reason the Austin clause was in the purchase contract for PSV ya know eh?

I think people are fools for thinking MLS would be different than the rest. These guys want money just like everyone else, that's all it's ever going to be about. I can't stop it, nobody can. So I'm going to get something out of it by laughing at the piss stains.

backbeat
12-04-2017, 03:27 PM
Mate where have you been for the past 100 years? This is how pro sports in North America works. It's not new. It's how it is. Nobody is changing it. How much time money and love was poured into the San Diego Chargers? Cleveland Browns? Winnipeg Jets? Montreal Expos? Seattle Supersonics? MLS isn't special, it's playing the same game in the same economy.

If you think a social media tweeteroo is going to stop some rich dudes from moving their plaything to where they want you're a bit nuts IMO. There's a reason the Austin clause was in the purchase contract for PSV ya know eh?

I think people are fools for thinking MLS would be different than the rest. These guys want money just like everyone else, that's all it's ever going to be about. I can't stop it, nobody can. So I'm going to get something out of it by laughing at the piss stains.

that seems a tad silly

i enjoy beating them if the lose but i'd prefer they not lose their team - go figure

as for the shoulder shrug of, 'that's just the way it works', well the world would be a pretty sorry place if everyone kowtowed to that and nobody showed any sign of gumption.

ryan
12-04-2017, 03:38 PM
that seems a tad silly

i enjoy beating them if the lose but i'd prefer they not lose their team - go figure

as for the shoulder shrug of, 'that's just the way it works', well the world would be a pretty sorry place if everyone kowtowed to that and nobody showed any sign of gumption.

I've already said I'd prefer them to exist in order to continue to be able to have my laughs at them, but that's not how this works. That's not a choice we get to have, or make for that matter. This move was the plan all along, that much is proven. So yes this is how it's going to go whether you, me, or anyone else likes it. So enjoy what you can out of it I say. Remind yourself that they, Montreal and Vancouver would be making us feel the pain if it was us on the move. You think these bastards would shed a tear for Toronto, Canada? LOL.

We should be toasting glasses of Bill Archer's tears right now, the sympathy is too much for me. I want to barf at some of this.

DinamoTFC
12-04-2017, 07:08 PM
Just because other north American teams have done it doesn't make it right. The league loses integrity when a club moves. If real Madrid or Barcelona moved to moscow or beijing because the owner thinks he could make mote money you'd be okay with it ?

T.O TILL I DIE
12-05-2017, 02:30 AM
Just because other north American teams have done it doesn't make it right. The league loses integrity when a club moves. If real Madrid or Barcelona moved to moscow or beijing because the owner thinks he could make mote money you'd be okay with it ?
Your comparing apples to oranges bud.

ryan
12-05-2017, 11:11 AM
Just because other north American teams have done it doesn't make it right. The league loses integrity when a club moves.

They don't care about integrity, only fans think this matters. They will out date the outrage and we'll find something else to yell about in due time. The public's attention span isn't very good.

DinamoTFC
12-05-2017, 12:15 PM
Your comparing apples to oranges bud.

Nope its quite fair. You're just using that statement to avoid a counter argument.

DinamoTFC
12-05-2017, 12:18 PM
They don't care about integrity, only fans think this matters. They will out date the outrage and we'll find something else to yell about in due time. The public's attention span isn't very good.

Imagine TFC continued to be shit during the dark years, Tim Leiweke never came in to save the day, and MLSE gave up with soccer due to decreasing attendanace and TV viewership. In your opinion, it would be okay if MLSE wanted to sell/relocate to another market instead of actually trying to get their shit together and acting like smart owners?

Prime example: Kansas City. They were a huge mess and turned themselves around to become succesful and relevant in their market.

Areathrasher
12-05-2017, 12:48 PM
The other NA leagues do it argument doesn't really fly given how MLS have really tried to position themselves as engaged with the community and fans. In fact using this to try and differentiate against NFL/MLB et al.

The three stars on the MLS crest are supposed to stand for " For Club, For Country, For Community"

Obviously they should have added the disclaimer " except in cases of poor business metrics" http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

ryan
12-05-2017, 02:19 PM
Imagine TFC continued to be shit during the dark years, Tim Leiweke never came in to save the day, and MLSE gave up with soccer due to decreasing attendanace and TV viewership. In your opinion, it would be okay if MLSE wanted to sell/relocate to another market instead of actually trying to get their shit together and acting like smart owners?

Prime example: Kansas City. They were a huge mess and turned themselves around to become succesful and relevant in their market.

MLSE can do what it wants, they paid millions for it. It's their's, not ours. That's the disconnect. Of course it's okay. It sucks for us, sure I'd hate it. It's certainly okay from a business perspective though.

You want it to be like Europe, it's never going to be like Europe.


The other NA leagues do it argument doesn't really fly given how MLS have really tried to position themselves as engaged with the community and fans. In fact using this to try and differentiate against NFL/MLB et al.

The three stars on the MLS crest are supposed to stand for " For Club, For Country, For Community"

Obviously they should have added the disclaimer " except in cases of poor business metrics" http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

It's marketing, not positioning. You've fallen for it. What's true? Their words or their actions? HELLO?

Mark my words Columbus will not be the last. Although I'd wager in the future teams will "fold up" and then a new franchise will "be born", as opposed to "moving."

Areathrasher
12-05-2017, 02:55 PM
It's marketing, not positioning. You've fallen for it. What's true? Their words or their actions? HELLO?

Mark my words Columbus will not be the last. Although I'd wager in the future teams will "fold up" and then a new franchise will "be born", as opposed to "moving."

I haven't fallen for anything thank you very much. MLS is currently out their parroting that bullshit to expansion markets to fleece them of public money.

It's not right.

You can go with the "that's the way it's always been" or you want something better.

Detroit_TFC
12-05-2017, 03:43 PM
What exactly do "team owners" own? They are investors into MLS and are granted the right to operate a team in the league. All the players are signed to the league. The individual team IP belongs to the league (iirc). The individual investors may or may not own some assets like stadium leases, etc. The idea that Precourt can say "I'm moving the team to Austin" is no more valid than you or me saying it. The LEAGUE is moving the team.

People should be mad at Precourt. He's a shitty owner-investor. He planted the seed for this by getting it written into the investment agreement. But the sign offs for all this run through Garber and the MLS Board.

ryan
12-05-2017, 04:16 PM
What exactly do "team owners" own? They are investors into MLS and are granted the right to operate a team in the league. All the players are signed to the league. The individual team IP belongs to the league (iirc). The individual investors may or may not own some assets like stadium leases, etc. The idea that Precourt can say "I'm moving the team to Austin" is no more valid than you or me saying it. The LEAGUE is moving the team.

People should be mad at Precourt. He's a shitty owner-investor. He planted the seed for this by getting it written into the investment agreement. But the sign offs for all this run through Garber and the MLS Board.


This is kind of what I'm trying to say here. The league is complicit in this ENTIRE process (which started the day he became owner, not this summer), but we're supposed to believe MLS is different because of what their 3 stars in their crest means? Come on.

MLS is not what some of you think it is.

Areathrasher
12-05-2017, 04:56 PM
This is kind of what I'm trying to say here. The league is complicit in this ENTIRE process (which started the day he became owner, not this summer), but we're supposed to believe MLS is different because of what their 3 stars in their crest means? Come on.

MLS is not what some of you think it is.

You really missed the point on that, eh ? :lol:

But from your POV, MLS has carte blanche to do as it pleases? Is that what your saying?

Fort York Redcoat
12-06-2017, 02:19 PM
Just because other north American teams have done it doesn't make it right. The league loses integrity when a club moves. If real Madrid or Barcelona moved to moscow or beijing because the owner thinks he could make mote money you'd be okay with it ?

Please continue. What would you do for Real Madrid or Barcelona in this example?

I don't believe it's right but I don't see much change in it.

Atlanta got a hockey team. Twice. They may or may not want the club model over the franchise model but you'd think we'd see more talk of that here in NA if people that follow other sports cared.

So Columbus supporters want to add names to a list to petition? Will there be demonstrations? All this may cause a spectacle that may be a back page headline but stopping the move? That would be akin to stopping Real Madrid and Barcelona from scoring.

ryan
12-06-2017, 02:36 PM
You really missed the point on that, eh ? :lol:

But from your POV, MLS has carte blanche to do as it pleases? Is that what your saying?

They do what they please already FYI.

DIEHARDTFC
10-12-2018, 04:54 PM
Looks like there is hope for the crew after all

Saved the Crew? Local group in negotiations to keep MLS in Columbus
https://www.thescore.com/mls/news/1622152

Ultimately, I think this is good for mls
From an Ohio rivalry pov. relocation is the worst possible outcome to solve a franchises problems in the league, so it's good from that view as well.

OgtheDim
10-12-2018, 06:34 PM
Another NFL ownership group.


And a team in Austin to boot (literally as they will likely be a basket case with cruddy ownership & a small soccer fanbase)

Redcoe15
10-12-2018, 10:57 PM
Precourt fucks everything up. :mad5: :prrr:

magmadragon
10-12-2018, 11:23 PM
I'm sure the league would love to dump Precourt completely and get San Antonio Spurs organization going. They are the biggest losers of Precourt getting his team anyway in Austin. SS&E is a solid organization.