Match Day 30 - Impact @ TFC Wed 20 Sept 7:30pm - TIC TIC TAC

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqUEbhlRKX4

*********

Have at It People

[OgtheDim]

After that missive from the Stinky Cheese Man, this is going to be an intense nasty game.

[Derko]

I have a feeling that the thugs will be out on Wednesday, I can see a few red cards

[ensco]

Who cares about Saputo's dumb letter?

We will paste them, same as we are pasting everyone.

[Eastend]

After that missive from the Stinky Cheese Man, this is going to be an intense nasty game.


I have a feeling that the thugs will be out on Wednesday, I can see a few red cards

I agree, could get nasty. MTL players playing for a job, and pride in beating the best team in the league. Our players need to keep their heads and just walk away from whatever BS the Impact try to pull. Don't need injuries or suspensions.

[Oldtimer]

Who cares about Saputo's dumb letter?

We will paste them, same as we are pasting everyone.

This:


I have a feeling that the thugs will be out on Wednesday, I can see a few red cards

I'm concerned about player injuries. Montreal's players will be desperate.

[ensco]

^If Montreal does that, watch out... they are still playing for something, we aren't. We can afford a suspension, they can't. (I actually kind of want to see Bradley sent off for trying to choke somebody in the fifth minute. He won't sit any other way!)

Also as a for instance, I think Fisher had better have his head on a swivel out there, if his teammates start gooning it up.

Who is the ref Wednesday night?

[Oldtimer]

Who is the ref Wednesday night?

PRO hasn't released it yet. This is where we can check:

http://proreferees.com/assignments/mls-assignments/

[RealG-TFC]

If we suspect they'll come to us hard and nasty we ought to use that to our advantage. We should dribble in and around the box, and bait them into making dumb tackles for a penalty or free-kick.

[flambe]

I agree, could get nasty. Don't need injuries or suspensions.
This is my big worry too, I feel like there have been more reckless challenges on our players over the past few games, given the level we're playing at.
Our skill level is just too high and its becoming increasing evident that most MLS'ers dont have the required skill to handle us, and have to resort to brutish play.

[Initial B]

PRO hasn't released it yet. This is where we can check:

http://proreferees.com/assignments/mls-assignments/
You know I never thought I'd say this, but this is one game when I hope we get Toledo. Players usually know better than to start something when he's reffing.

[woolly]

I was thinking that we can use some of our players that are sitting on 4 yellows to anatgonise them... Get a 5th yellow and clear the records before the final game against Montreal

That game will be goon esque and make this one look like a walk in the park.

[paul-collins]

I was thinking that we can use some of our players that are sitting on 4 yellows to anatgonise them... Get a 5th yellow and clear the records before the final game against Montreal.
Do these suspensions for accumulation - or, rather, do the accumulated yellows - carry into the playoffs?

[Jeffro]

I can't wait to be back at BMO for the first time in a few years for this match! I've brought my family to a couple tfc games at bc place, but this will be their first time at BMO. They are super stoked.

[flatpicker]

I can't wait to be back at BMO for the first time in a few years for this match! I've brought my family to a couple tfc games at bc place, but this will be their first time at BMO. They are super stoked.

Welcome back!

[pdubs]

I hope whoever the ref is that they set the tone of the game early. Early cards if needed. Lot to ask but with VAR hopefully if MLT are trying to take out our players it will be caught early.

[UpTheReds]

Vanney just confirmed Altidore is out for tomorrow, Seba is questionable.

[TheSloanRanger]

Montreal is still in a battle for a playoff spot. They've been out of form recently but there's nothing like a derby win to build morale and confidence. I expect an open, fast paced game with Montreal gunning for 3 points. The second Montreal game will be the potential shite show if Limpact can't start stringing points together.
This game still has something on the line. Oct 15th may not

[Detroit_TFC]

Vanney just confirmed Altidore is out for tomorrow, Seba is questionable.

That's not good.

[Auzzy]

That's not good.

Or he could be managing minutes between the Montreal & NE game. Seba part of the game tomorrow home vs. Montreal; Altidore part of the game Saturday; travelling to NE to play on the turf.

[UpTheReds]

GV said Seba is set to have a scan today on the quad to determine his status.

[paul-collins]

Also VV might have a touch of the flu? Heard it on the Sportscentre report... Not sure if I heard it correctly.

[OgtheDim]

Also VV might have a touch of the flu? Heard it on the Sportscentre report... Not sure if I heard it correctly.

Molinaro has the answer

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfcs-altidore-vs-impact-giovinco-questionable/




Victor Vazquez didn’t train on Tuesday due to a slight fever, but Vanney hinted that the Spanish playmaker should be available to play against Montreal.
“We feel good about where he’ll be,” Vanney offered.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Vanney just confirmed Altidore is out for tomorrow, Seba is questionable.
That is very bad news.
Plus I have a feeling that in the best case possible we'll se no more than 30 minutes from Seba.

Then in Boston none of them will play for sure, it is nonsense to play there on that bad pitch.

So we are looking to 2 more games without our best forwards by far, making it 3 in row.
In these conditions TFC is very much overdue to have at least one game from these 2 in which will find very hard to score.

[Hamilton_Red]

New England's turf was replaced last year - it's not the bad turn of old. That being said - team is in dissaray and have fired the coach. Should still be a win with the second string strikeforce.

[OgtheDim]

They replaced the NER turf a week ago.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20670592/new-england-patriots-replacing-synthetic-turf-gillette-stadium

[Derko]

That is very bad news.
Plus I have a feeling that in the best case possible we'll se no more than 30 minutes from Seba.

Then in Boston none of them will play for sure, it is nonsense to play there on that bad pitch.

So we are looking to 2 more games without our best forwards by far, making it 3 in row.
In these conditions TFC is very much overdue to have at least one game from these 2 in which will find very hard to score.

You're such a worry-wart, :drinking:

[OgtheDim]

Anyways....its GAME DAY!!!!! :scarf:

[ensco]

That is very bad news.
Plus I have a feeling that in the best case possible we'll se no more than 30 minutes from Seba.

Then in Boston none of them will play for sure, it is nonsense to play there on that bad pitch.

So we are looking to 2 more games without our best forwards by far, making it 3 in row.
In these conditions TFC is very much overdue to have at least one game from these 2 in which will find very hard to score.

We can score goals. Ricketts should have had four Saturday. Hamilton also has a great strike rate. I hope he gets in.

Vanney's problem right now is so high quality it's ridiculous. The subs could all play and do well, but that doesn't solve for what the team needs, which is to keep the rhythm going, and to get subs used to playing with the starters, because that's how he'll need them.

Ricketts and Hamilton developing chemistry with each other in September is useless in November. I hope Seba can give some minutes so that each can play with him.

[woolly]

We can score goals. Ricketts should have had four Saturday. Hamilton also has a great strike rate. I hope he gets in.

Vanney's problem right now is so high quality it's ridiculous. The subs could all play and do well, but that doesn't solve for what the team needs, which is to keep the rhythm going, and to get subs used to playing with the starters, because that's how he'll need them.

Ricketts and Hamilton developing chemistry with each other in September is useless in November. I hope Seba can give some minutes so that each can play with him.

You say that now, but if Seba gets injured like he was during the playoff run, we're going to be needing that chemistry. Same with Jozy. the fact that both of them are currently sitting with minor injuries means that they aren't invincible and having options is always a good thing.

Plus I think we get the only need 2 more wins to get all the records... Is it really worth rolling the dice for more than that?

[ensco]

^ I think the likelier scenario is that one of Seba or Jozy can't play, or needs to be subbed, in November, so the priority is getting Ricketts minutes with both.

I think the scenario where neither Seba or Altidore is on the field is obviously unlikely, but we saw what Vanney would do then - Ricketts and Vasquez.

I am really most worried about Altidore, if he has to play knockout USMNT games in November, I think it's at least 50/50 he isnt 100% when he comes back

[Detroit_TFC]

I just automatically pencilled in an L for NE considering the last few times there, but given the situation there, plus turf upgrade, I'm feeling better about the chances for a D or W.

[Auzzy]

They replaced the NER turf a week ago.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20670592/new-england-patriots-replacing-synthetic-turf-gillette-stadium

Which could be a good or bad thing. First of all brand new turf can play a bit funny. Plus they had already replaced the turf in the spring (wow), so it wasn't the "bad old stuff" anyway. NFL players found the new stuff this year too soft, which means the turf installed just now will probably be a bit harder. I think gridiron tends to like turf a bit harder; soccer a bit softer. So the brand new stuff could actually be worse for MLS?! Obviously their concerns will be taken less seriously than the Patriots. At least the Revs will hardly be more familiar with the surface than TFC.

It seems that plastic turf is still a very inexact science...

[notthesun]

Giovinco ruled out and likely not playing on the weekend vs. the Revs either.

[Auzzy]

Giovinco ruled out and likely not playing on the weekend vs. the Revs either.

Well hopefully they can nip things in the bud this year, and not have his health issues lingering into the playoffs...?

[Davenport]

Giovinco ruled out and likely not playing on the weekend vs. the Revs either.
Where did you hear that ?

[A Stick]

Where did you hear that ?

On TSN 1050 radio this morning.

[UpTheReds]

Kurt Larson also tweeted the same about 2 hours ago

[Oldtimer]

Who is the ref Wednesday night?

It's now out that its will be Jair Marrufo.

[C.Ronaldo]

Giovinco ruled out and likely not playing on the weekend vs. the Revs either.

Revs because of the plastic carpet they have

[Derko]

Ricketts can score against IMFC, so can Vasquez, just be very strong in the midfield and defensive half.

[Davenport]

On TSN 1050 radio this morning.
I think we may see him tonight, maybe just a cameo, but not Saturday.

[pdubs]

Better to rest them now during this stretch. Not ideal that both of them are out but better to be cautious. Sounds like both would be playing if it was a playoff game.

Bradley has put in a lot of minutes. 1 yellow away from suspension. Maybe he picks one up this game and save the trip to NE.

[OgtheDim]

The Giovinco talk seems to be all coming from Larson's tweet.

[Cas87]

I feel as though we will see something along the lines of:

Irwin
Mavinga -- Moor -- Hernandez
Edwards -- Osorio -- Bradley -- Chapman -- Hasler
Ricketts -- Hamilton

Bench:
Bono
Morgan
Morrow
Victor
Spencer
Delgado
Cooper

This will be a way to get everyone without regular minutes a run-out and keep everyone sharp.
Subs:
Morrow for Mavinga / Moor (whichever may need a rest)
Victor for Osorio / Chapman
Morgan for Hasler

[hh293]

TSN has an article stating that Bill Manning confirmed on the radio this morning that Giovinco will be rested tonight and on Saturday.

http://www.tsn.ca/tfc-to-rest-giovinco-against-impact-1.861490

[Globetrotter]

So let's move on. Give us the 11 guys that are good to go and let's do what's needed to win and knock MTL out of the picture.

[Initial B]

It's now out that its will be Jair Marrufo.
Oh crap, isn't he the ref that swallows his whistle and lets games get physically out of hand? I'd throw out as many of the young guys who can absorb the punishment Montreal is bound to let out. Then again, the Revs have been positively goon-like the last two games, so I'm worried about them as well...

[OgtheDim]

Yup..time to bring it all. Glory waits.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEKhUoYf-4o

[paul-collins]

I feel as though we will see something along the lines of:

Irwin
Mavinga -- Moor -- Hernandez
Edwards -- Osorio -- Bradley -- Chapman -- Hasler
Ricketts -- Hamilton

Bench:
Bono
Morgan
Morrow
Victor
Spencer
Delgado
Cooper

This will be a way to get everyone without regular minutes a run-out and keep everyone sharp.
Subs:
Morrow for Mavinga / Moor (whichever may need a rest)
Victor for Osorio / Chapman
Morgan for Hasler
My only concern with this is that Chapman has to be ready to not get knocked around. He's been a little soft the last few games and lost possession by being shouldered out. I could see Piette taking advantage of him.

[TFC Tifoso]

Bradley is 1 yellow away from suspension....methinks he will not play v NE on Saturday lol.....

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Bradley is 1 yellow away from suspension....methinks he will not play v NE on Saturday lol.....

Anyone know what happens if he gets 2 yellows? Obviously he's suspended the next game for the red, but would he miss a second game for yellow card accumulation?

[paul-collins]

Bradley is 1 yellow away from suspension....methinks he will not play v NE on Saturday lol.....
Or he could get one yellow back for good behaviour tonight.

BTW, found the answer to my question regarding accumulation carrying into the playoffs - it doesn't. Only if you get a direct suspension (two yellows/red) do you miss the first playoff game you're eligible for. It's a two card threshold throughout the playoffs, and you can't get suspended from the Cup game on accumulation, only directly.

[OgtheDim]

So....if Fischer plays....we boo him mercilessly everytime he touches the ball?

[Dunkers]

I doubt Bradley picks up a yellow card, his yellows are usually strategic, he wont make a rash challenge if he doesn't need to, and given our position in the table he would probably let someone slip by rather than take a card and get suspended.

[paul-collins]

So....if Fischer plays....we boo him mercilessly everytime he touches the ball?
If he's on the bench, boo him when they announce the roster.

[TFC Tifoso]

Anyone know what happens if he gets 2 yellows? Obviously he's suspended the next game for the red, but would he miss a second game for yellow card accumulation?

good question....no clue....


I doubt Bradley picks up a yellow card, his yellows are usually strategic, he wont make a rash challenge if he doesn't need to, and given our position in the table he would probably let someone slip by rather than take a card and get suspended.

ya fair point, but if the game gets heated, I can also see the Captain sticking up for the team.....if he does pick one up, it won't be just because.....

[Oldtimer]

News: Vanney is leaving his two best strikers off the game day squad "as a precaution."

2015 TFC fan: "what is he doing??? This is a game against our key rival!!! It's obvious he is inexperienced and makes poor decisions! We'll never make the playoffs!"

2017 TFC fan: "Interesting. He's giving chances for our depth players to shine and make sure they get some minutes and our star strikers a chance to fully heal before the playoffs start."

Winning changes everything.

[dupont]

I don't care if Montreal is our rival. I would throw this game to keep our best players healthy for the playoffs. But we have a deep squad, so resting those players isn't throwing the game anyway. Still a great chance to win

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/910632187468435456

Vazquez on the bench to start. Cooper taking the CF/roaming role Vazquez occupied last game.

Expecting a closer game with this lineup. Although Montreal is going with a 3-5-2 according to their lineup. I love when teams just try to copy the 3-5-2 to match us straight up; most teams aren't prepared well enough to do it successfully.

[Redcoe15]

This game has "nasty" written all over it. A friend from work and his girlfriend are taking in the match tonight with the potential of seeing on field fireworks. Worth getting boozed up over (but when isn't any time to booze up over a Toronto-Montreal derby?).

[molenshtain]

That's quite the lineup. I sometimes feel Vanney gets a little carried away with his experimental 3-6-1's.

[Richard]

That's quite the lineup. I sometimes feel Vanney gets a little carried away with his experimental 3-6-1's.

Yet we are on a record setting pace. Who cares haha.

[portu]

streams?

[molenshtain]

streams?

[PizzaEatingYeti]

holy shit, none of Seba, Jozy and Victor is playing.
This is bad.
Very bad.
Bad decision by Vanney.

If Seba and Jozy are out both, Victor must have been a MUST to start.!

[TheSloanRanger]

Tic tac tabernac
No seba here we'll still attack
Tic tac tabernac
Canadian champs back to back
Tic tac tabernac
How much longer til Biello's sacked

Whether we win or whether we lose
Just thank god we're not in blue

[PizzaEatingYeti]

We should be happy with a draw today because of the fucked up lineup...

[rydermike]

holy shit, none of Seba, Jozy and Victor is playing.
This is bad.
Very bad.
Bad decision by Vanney.

If Seba and Jozy are out both, Victor must have been a MUST to start.!
Vasquez had a fever/flu so probably good for 30 min instead of 90

[molenshtain]

holy shit, none of Seba, Jozy and Victor is playing.
This is bad.
Very bad.
Bad decision by Vanney.

If Seba and Jozy are out both, Victor must have been a MUST to start.!

Vazquez came down with a fever over the last couple days. I'm sure leaving Vazquez out was not by design.

[Globetrotter]

Why wouldn't we have Hamilton up top, Cooper in the middle, and Osorio helping clean up the hurricane damage down South?

[AdamAM]

l..o...l......

[rydermike]

Two errors by Zavaleta two goals

[notthesun]

That's two goals on Zavaleta. Yikes.

[Globetrotter]

And is that it for our home unbeaten streak?

[James17930]

In one of the previous threads, someone said they hope we lose a game in order to 'bring us down a notch' and make sure we don't get complacent.

Might be happening now.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

OK boys.
We can go home now, and forget this one
Here goes the MLS all time record in the regular season.

Not only very bad decision of Vanney to start such a lineup, but these guys started without any urgency.

[pdubs]

Sloppy play. Being too cute. No closing down. We better wake the fuck up.

Zavaleta has been great all year but is having a stinker. So frustrating.

An Cooper yea.... trips over his own feet.

[Detroit_TFC]

Ugh. Brutal.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

This game is just a demo how much less is TFC without Victor V.
IMO a 10-12 points difference.

Without him we would be at best head to head with New York City in the fight for the supporter shield.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

GET
RID of
COOPER
FOREVER

please!

[notthesun]

Probably gonna need Vazquez, hopefully he's not too sick.

[Leedsoronto]

Let's just think of tonight's game as "nostalgic night" remembering how shit we used to be and thankful that when fully fit we are 100% better than this ! :@)

[Globetrotter]

Zav 3 errors??

[rydermike]

Zavaleta falls and they score

[pdubs]

Zavaleta slips.

Other turnover tho. We can't handle their pressure.

[pdubs]

Zavaleta needs to be subbed out now. Idk maybe get victor on and go 4 at the back?

[James17930]

Wow.

They know exactly how to pick us apart.

Nobody has been great, but I think Cooper is particularly useless. I'd like to see Chapman in there instead.

[Detroit_TFC]

WTF, soccer gods taking full revenge tonight. No points for us tonight.

[notthesun]

Yeah this is probably over.

Two mistakes from Zavaleta had us right in Montreal's pocket, exactly the type of game they want to play. Overplaying trying to get back in the game and they counter perfectly.

Oh well. Even as good as we are, you take away our three best attacking players, it's gonna make a difference.

[rydermike]

Not even anything about the goals. The lack of Vasquez is glaring. Passes are not crisp to a player's path, and not to dangerous areas at all.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Watch out!
The whole league will analyze this "to blood" to see how can be the shit beat out of TFC.

[pdubs]

Ben Spencer? Bahhh

[James17930]

Ben Spencer? Bahhh

No kidding. Why make things worse? Put Hamilton in there.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Let's just think of tonight's game as "nostalgic night" remembering how shit we used to be and thankful that when fully fit we are 100% better than this ! :@)

We never were THIS shit with the Limp Act at home, lol...

[pdubs]

Watch out!
The whole league will analyze this "to blood" to see how can be the shit beat out of TFC.

Idk you add our top three players back in and it is different. Doesn't explain the sloppy play and terrible passing. Altidore, Giovinco and Vazquez all are great at working in tight spaces and dealing with pressure. Our current forward line doesn't tell us that much I think.

[James17930]

And you can tell these guys don't know how to play with each other ... they're all bunching up and getting in each other's way.

[pdubs]

Why are we putting so many crosses in the box? And the crossing has been horrible.

[TFC_4_Life]

Spencer has been the least productive player on our bench. Why was he the first option? Hamilton, Chapman, Edwards have proven more productive then Spencer.

[notthesun]

I just don't understand Vanney's like of Spencer. It's my only complaint about Vanney these days. What does Spencer do that Hamilton isn't better at? Hamilton's even been banging them in for TFC II. I truly do not get it at all.

[pdubs]

It's not pretty but its a start. Great moves by Osorio.

[rydermike]

Goal like their first

[Leedsoronto]

Touché

[StokeciTFC]

Can't be there or watch or even listen tonight, which is probably a good thing by the sounds of it.

Would Vanney choose to give us a lesson in humility here? Surely not - to have confidence blown at this stage is a horribly dangerous thing.

That said, having hated the schedule at the start of this season, bunching up the Columbus games at the beginning and the Montreal ones at the end, maybe it gives us a precious shot at redemption to play them one last time.

Hang about one moment though, we just might not need it...

[Detroit_TFC]

I like that the goal was by Owen Goal, he's a peach.

[rydermike]

If Vasquez is healthy enough to play 45 may be able to get a point

[daner90]

Would like to see Hasler and Edwards to start the second.

[notthesun]

At least we've woken up a bit now.

[samuraizero]

Ref needs to start calling some shit. That handball in the box would have been big.

[pdubs]

Spencer is 6'5". He needs to use his size to cause problems. That last corner he needs to be all other that.

[James17930]

I just don't understand Vanney's like of Spencer. It's my only complaint about Vanney these days. What does Spencer do that Hamilton isn't better at? Hamilton's even been banging them in for TFC II. I truly do not get it at all.

Only thing I can think is that he just wants size. Montreal's CB are pretty big ... maybe he just wants to Spencer in there to bang with them.

[pdubs]

Ref needs to start calling some shit. That handball in the box would have been big.

I didn't once hear a whistle all half apart from the goals it seems

[molenshtain]

Osorio is the only player out there playing with any purpose. everyone else looked completely fucking useless. I mentioned before the match that these 3-6-1 lineups that Vanney trots out occasionally are a little suspect. None of our midfielders have any idea where their supposed to be. I'm glad we're playing two up top now but this is something Vanney needs to cut out as a back up option.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I never understood what Vanney sees in Spencer, with so many better reserve payer alternatives (I'm talking about all this season, not only this game).
I have never ever seen any enough MLS quality any time when Spencer has played.

[Oldtimer]

My 2015 fan is back in full force. Vanney is playing too weak a side. Maybe not by choice though. Let's see what adjustments he makes.

The team did not respect the Impact enough and have a hole to dig out of.

At least we're having a game like this now and not in the playoffs.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

To have a chance to get today a draw, in the 2nd half all the players in Red on the field need to play the equal to their best to date this season.
And even then maybe won't be enough because of the missing people, unless Montreal has a bad second half.

[BenRhodes23]

We need to stay positive. Obviously the performance has been horrible but that goal at the end of the half could swing the momentum in our favour. If Montreal can score 3 in 24 mins then so can we. I wouldn't be surprised to see Vazquez come on soon

[Detroit_TFC]

Vazquez should come in at the half, set up 3 goals, then walk into Bez's office and demand a bazillion dollar raise.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

On a second thought it's almost ridiculous how everything lined up for a huge upset in the 1 st half:

1. TFC trotting out arguably the weakest lineup of the season.
2. Too many guys having their worst or almost worst performance of the season.
3. Montreal playing great, plus being lucky up front.

[rydermike]

You gotta be kidding me

[Leedsoronto]

Oh my gosh now we're giving away goals WTF.

[James17930]

Fuck off.

[Detroit_TFC]

That was a staggering fuck up by Beitashour.

[notthesun]

Jesus Christ that's absolutely brutal.

Good thing this game really doesn't matter. This is one you completely forget and move on.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Don't play Vazquez.
This game is in the books no matter what.

Rest the guy for coming games.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

To have a chance to get today a draw, in the 2nd half all the players in Red on the field need to play the equal to their best to date this season.
And even then maybe won't be enough because of the missing people, unless Montreal has a bad second half.

Sorry about being an idiot, thinking about this.
At this score TFC loses, even if every player stands on their heads.

[pdubs]

Wow. Just wow. I don't know what to say.

[rydermike]

We're going to set the record for biggest loss this season

[General Woolfe]

This is a very worrying evening. I don't know if Vanney has bought into the press wevebeen getting but this is a shocking display. Are Altidore and Giovinco so injured they have to miss so many games or is Vanney being over cautious and over rating his fringe players? We need to get our act together and put together a run before the playoffs. I don't want to go to Atlanta playing like this

This is shocking defending too which has nothing to do with Séba and Jozy's absence

[molenshtain]

fuck off. I'm rage quitting. see you all next week.

[James17930]

This is a very worrying evening. I don't know if Vanney has bought into the press wevebeen getting but this is a shocking display. Are Altidore and Giovinco so injured they have to miss so many games or is Vanney being over cautious and over rating his fringe players? We need to get our act together and put together a run before the playoffs. I don't want to go to Atlanta playing like this

This is shocking defending too which has nothing to do with Séba and Jozy's absence

But the weird thing is, he's even playing the worst fringe players. Why Spencer and Cooper? Why not Hamilton and Chapman/Edwards? It really is strange.

[notthesun]

We have to beat New England this weekend. Losing is ok but getting crushed is dangerous for our form. Absolutely need to bounce back from this.

[rydermike]

That sign behind the impact net needs some changing. Montreal toujours absent. More like tfc c'est absent aujourdhui

[pdubs]

But the weird thing is, he's even playing the worst fringe players. Why Spencer and Cooper? Why not Hamilton and Chapman/Edwards? It really is strange.

Agreed. I don't get it.

[Leedsoronto]

But the weird thing is, he's even playing the worst fringe players. Why Spencer and Cooper? Why not Hamilton and Chapman/Edwards? It really is strange.

This is a good point !! Or even add Endo, he been doing well at USL level

[SirBobSaget]

Anyone on the field that was in competition for a spot has emphatically lost that fight. Hasler over beits, cooper never comes off bench, spencer can get completely lost he's so shocking and would like to see Irwin start in ne to earn starter back

[James17930]

Only thing I can think is this is a final rehearsal for who makes the playoff roster. So if these guys don't produce tonight, they won't be there come playoff time.

[backbeat]

in a way maybe it's a good thing before the playoffs, to give our head a shake

the proverbial wakeup call, as it were.

[SoccMan2]

I thought this team had all this depth?

[pdubs]

I have to say tho, Jackson-Hamel first touch and composure is great. Good news for the CMNT lol.

[samuraizero]

CLEAR foul from that keeper. Some horseshit calls happening tonight

[TFC07]

Wake up call for TFC. That's all I am going to say tonight.

[pdubs]

Starting Cooper and bringing on Spencer should be a crime. Leaving Edwards and Hamilton stewing makes no sense. Media need to confront Vanney about it.

[SoccMan2]

TFC will get smoked in Atlanta in the last game of the season and if we play them , and remember if we do play them in the playoffs the first game will be in Atlanta and by the time they get back to Toronto for the second game the series could be out of reach if this is the TFC team that shows up.

[Detroit_TFC]

The whole management of this game is puzzling. As if there was a strategic decision to dump this game. That can't possibly be true.

[gracos]

wonder if their was a deal from Garber and CO that if we threw the game, we would be compensated some Garber bucks

[molenshtain]

I thought this team had all this depth?

doesn't make a lick of difference if Altidore, Vazquez and Seba aren't out there to make space for the rest of the squad. Playing six midfielders, five of whom are better defensively than they are offensively, doesn't fucking make any sense at home. Impact came out with a better 11 and a better game plan. This was inevitable.

[Kaz]

This game loses Vanney coach of the year.

He should have damn well knew Montreal was going to come in hard. He did not prepare the boys or himself for it. He did nothing. It is sad and I can't believe he expect a high press. The boys are playing slow, back passes under pressure, making the same mistakes over and over. refusing to counter instead waiting to let them defend. It is just OMG. This is the worst I've seen..

[pdubs]

TFC will get smoked in Atlanta in the last game of the season and if we play them , and remember if we do play them in the playoffs the first game will be in Atlanta and by the time they get back to Toronto for the second game the series could be out of reach if this is the TFC team that shows up.

You don't think adding Giovinco, Altidore and Vazquez into the lineup will alter our fortunes? This terrible but it does not write off everything we have done all year. 3 of the goals tonight were on bone headed mistakes.

[BelfastBoy]

They took the night off. Plus nobody plays TFC like L'Impact. Glad they are not in the playoffs.

[notthesun]

This game loses Vanney coach of the year.

He should have damn well knew Montreal was going to come in hard. He did not prepare the boys or himself for it. He did nothing. It is sad and I can't believe he expect a high press. The boys are playing slow, back passes under pressure, making the same mistakes over and over. refusing to counter instead waiting to let them defend. It is just OMG. This is the worst I've seen..

Dude he's gonna cruise to Coach of the Year by a mile. I know you don't like him but we're going to win the Shield and there are no better candidates.

[pdubs]

Rickets wow..... Wow

[molenshtain]

Hearing Bradley and Vanney's post game interviews will be interesting.

The game on october 15th becomes much more important. Statement game at the end of the regular season. We can't take our foot off the gas for the rest of the season like we did tonight.

[Leedsoronto]

Least score isn't as embarrassing now

[TheSloanRanger]

Let's just delete this thread and move on

[Detroit_TFC]

What an odd game this has been.

[molenshtain]

supposedly Ricketts has scored twice. good for him.

[pdubs]

supposedly Ricketts has scored twice. good for him.

Two great headers.

[notthesun]

Ben Spencer is Justin Braun in disguise.

[UpTheReds]

Don't understand why you include Vazquez in the 18 if he's not going to play. Odd team selection tonight. On the plus side, I've met Norm Powell of the Raptors while leaving the stadium, nice bloke.

[Yohan]

TFC gets a draw out of this game if Spencer can head the ball on the net

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Spencer fucked this up.
Ricketts was coming in!

[jloome]

TFC gets a draw out of this game if Spencer can head the ball on the net

I'd say if Hamilton starts instead of Spencer...

[PizzaEatingYeti]

TFC gets a draw out of this game if Spencer can head the ball on the net

No, he can't.
He needs 10 headers to get 1 one the frame.

[molenshtain]

One has to wonder how in the hell Cooper is still on the field

[pdubs]

As long as Vanney has learned about certain players from this... and that they never see the fucking field again....

[Detroit_TFC]

Get well soon (like immediately), Victor.

[rydermike]

Don't understand why you include Vazquez in the 18 if he's not going to play. Odd team selection tonight. On the plus side, I've met Norm Powell of the Raptors while leaving the stadium, nice bloke.

Pretty sure Vasquez was supposed to play about 30 minutes due to not being 100% due to fever, until it got to 5-1, then there was no point. If it was tied or 2-1,we definitely would've seen him

[SoccMan2]

Let's hope all of Giovinco, Altidore and Vasquez are healthy for some of these last few games, because you want momentum going into the playoffs you don't want to go into the playoffs on some kind of loosing streak. Moreover, if this team is going to the the MLS Cup Final you need all three to be healthy or else it's either Atlanta or NYRD Bulls in the final representing the east.

[notthesun]

For most of that game that was our worst performance of the season... and we still managed to get back in it. I'm not happy or anything but at least the guys made somewhat of a game out of it.

The goals were 3 horrendous individual mistakes and 2 team breakdowns where we were trying way too hard to score. I mean, cut out a mistake or two and Vanney subs on Hamilton instead of Spencer (dear lord, please let those be his last minutes of the season) and we somehow might have gotten a draw. There was the VAR thing too which could have been a penalty, Bush basically punched Spencer in the face...

At lot of this sucks (losing the undefeated record at home, all the all-time best record chasing), but truth is none of it actually matters. We're still going to win the Shield and Montreal is still going to miss the playoffs. We just need to respond well from this and prove immediately and without question that it was a one-time blip, not the start of a downswing.

[molenshtain]

Let's hope all of Giovinco, Altidore and Vasquez are healthy for some of these last few games, because you want momentum going into the playoffs you don't want to go into the playoffs on some kind of loosing streak.

IIRC correctly we were winless in 5 going into the Philly game last year. Momentum for the most part is extremely over rated in MLS. If we play our best 11 we don't lose in the playoffs. simple as that.

[TFC_4_Life]

Young players need opportunities. If they show promise and progress you can accept some errors. But Ben Spencer has not shown any contribution or sign he deserves to play at this level. With so many other young players with real promise on the bench it is extremely frustrating to see him play.

Press needs to ask why young home growns with promiss are not getting minutes: Hamilton, Chapman and Edwards

[wopchop]

Edwards should have gone one earlier IMO. Pretty telling IMO that before he comes on, basically nothing is going into the box, and ten minutes after, you got two from Ricketts.

The first assist definitely came off Edwards, although I think the second was Cooper. Still, the kid creates chances.

Morrow was invisible tonight. Cooper was mostly useless too. No idea why Vanney likes Spencer. Seems like Ricketts and Osorio were the only starters who came out to play.

[molenshtain]

The assumption is that Hamilton doesn't put in the work in practice. Hamilton is clearly the better player at this point but if that is the story than it's at least somewhat understandable.

[molenshtain]

This game wasn't quite as bad as 6-2 loss at home to Philly or 3-0 at home to New England, But it wasn't far off. Osorio and Ricketts the only two tonight who come away without criticism.

[BenRhodes23]

Cooper and Spencer actually impressed me tonight. In the final 12-15 minutes TFC were the better team in my opinion and after Ricketts scored his second I thought we had a chance as we were creating plenty of chances.

Let's get 'em on October 15th. :scarf:

[OgtheDim]

Ricketts is good at stretching the defence. Too bad we kept trying to do 5 passes in the area.
Cooper remains a weakness in this team. We had a year's supply of bone head plays. Hopefully out of the system. Montreal was better on the night. We better bring it in Foxboro.

[BenRhodes23]

This game wasn't quite as bad as 6-2 loss at home to Philly or 3-0 at home to New England, But it wasn't far off. Osorio and Ricketts the only two tonight who come away without criticism.

Agreed. Cooper and Spencer were much better than usual but were still shaky. Hasler impressed me in the final 10-15 minutes

[Couchy81]

Edwards should have gone one earlier IMO. Pretty telling IMO that before he comes on, basically nothing is going into the box, and ten minutes after, you got two from Ricketts.

The first assist definitely came off Edwards, although I think the second was Cooper. Still, the kid creates chances.

Morrow was invisible tonight. Cooper was mostly useless too. No idea why Vanney likes Spencer. Seems like Ricketts and Osorio were the only starters who came out to play.

Thought Morrow was the only one making wing runs in the first half, he kept creating space. Only problem was no creative runs in the middle.

[Canary10]

Totally meaningless game for us in the big picture but it sucks that it was Montreal and it sucks to sacrifice the home record in the name of resting players. Now we actually need a response in New England or we concede hope to the rest of the league.

[Canary10]

And why Spencer? Honestly. He's not ready.

[Couchy81]

Thought Vanney made a ridiculous sub tonight bringing on Spencer in a 2 goal game in the 31st minute with Jordan Hamilton on the bench. Critical coaching error tonight. Chapman should also have started since he wasn't reportedly ill or injured like our top three.

[Richard]

Who gives a fuck about this result. We won the shield and we are marching towards the MLS Cup and resting players.

In fact, this result is good, it shows the players they better not start slacking.

[wopchop]

Thought Morrow was the only one making wing runs in the first half, he kept creating space. Only problem was no creative runs in the middle.
I dunno, maybe I just did not notice with the rest of the atrocities going on. Down the middle was certainly a problem.

Bottom line is that on October 15th, there must be blood.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Totally meaningless game for us in the big picture but it sucks that it was Montreal and it sucks to sacrifice the home record in the name of resting players. Now we actually need a response in New England or we concede hope to the rest of the league.

I don't understand if Vanney wanted to throw a game by trotting out the most possible experimental lineup, why he hasn't done this in the New England game?
Everyone and their pet knew that Montreal is hugely motivated for this game, plus they are our league rivals.

Or... Vanney wants to throw both games?
Who knows...

I read somewhere today that most probably neither Seba and Jozy will start in NE.

[UpTheReds]

Totally meaningless game for us in the big picture but it sucks that it was Montreal and it sucks to sacrifice the home record in the name of resting players. Now we actually need a response in New England or we concede hope to the rest of the league.

Bang on mate. That result demands a response. Puts us in a bit of a tough spot to have to respond in New England.

[Canary10]

I don't understand if Vanney wanted to throw a game by trotting out the most possible experimental lineup, why he hasn't done this in the New England game?
Everyone and their pet knew that Montreal is hugely motivated for this game, plus they are our league rivals.

Or... Vanney wants to throw both games?
Who knows...

He did it in LA and it worked. Managers get cockey. He should have known how motivated Montreal would be.

[Globetrotter]

Totally meaningless game for us in the big picture but it sucks that it was Montreal and it sucks to sacrifice the home record in the name of resting players. Now we actually need a response in New England or we concede hope to the rest of the league.

Define big picture?

1. Montreal is a team that can beat us, and we want them out of the playoffs. We didn't succeed helping this cause.
2. We had an unbeaten record at home, that's gone.
3. In terms of being ranked best MLS team of all time, we could still finish with most points ever, but now at most we could finish with 74 points, which by decimal points, would be behind LAG99 by a few decimal places (if spread over 34 game season - which leads to debate. we lost the chance to make it a non topic).

If big picture is win shield, cup, and concacaf... yes, still on the table.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Bang on mate. That result demands a response. Puts us in a bit of a tough spot to have to respond in New England.
Extremely tough spot.
We have such a bad history at Foxboro, that almost every game is an automatic loss.

[OgtheDim]

Hopefully, the media will stop with the best MLS team ever talk.

[molenshtain]

Define big picture?

1. Montreal is a team that can beat us, and we want them out of the playoffs. We didn't succeed helping this cause.


remains to be seen that the Impact can beat us with a full strength lineup.

[tfcfans]

I am not one to read too much into a game like this as in no way was this a lineup we will see in the playoffs and frankly I think it's impossible to play close to 30 out of 34 games over an 8 month period at such a high level. There are going to be emotional let downs especially when these guys know their season is being judged by an MLS Cup as success not by a somewhat arbitrary points records and not even with a "Shield", which in NA soccer does not really define the champion of this league (BTW does any casual fan really know the "points per game" record (with or without shootouts?!) and talk about it?); if they win the Cup and have 67 points will they not go down as one of the greatest teams of all time, does 70 points radically change that narrative? Will it really affect how we play on October 30th or so? My hunch is no......Let's all take a chill pill, and not read too much into this. Would anyone here have been happy if Seba played and had a season ending injury and we win the game? We all would have freaked out and said it was stupid to chase some points record instead of trying to win a championship. If resting my top three guys (or three of the top 4?) meant losing a game and seeing what some backups can do, there are far greater calamities. We've lost 4 (?!) games all year, at least two of which were also at the end of a 5 games in 15 days stretches. If we are panicking now what do you think other teams are doing? Salivating at playing TFC? believe me other teams don't want us in the playoffs, despite a bad game here or there.....everyone is beatable, including us, however I'll take this group over any other team starting the playoffs in late October and anyone in their right mind would say the same......

Frankly the only team that even somewhat concerns me in the East is Atlanta as they have the greatest "upside" to me in terms of scoring potential and having 70,000 people in a stadium going crazy. I'm hoping they finish third and they can be NYCFCs problem in the ECSF (and not ours until at least the ECF).....looks like third is a strong possibility too based on the ease of their schedule.....

Relax.....the season didn't end tonight, or even on Saturday in NE on crappy turf which I would also not risk injury on as well for our key players.....

[Dunkers]

The big picture is vanney knows who will step up on demand off the bench. Every player on the team would have known going into the game this is a chance to prove your worth. Some players stepped up others not so much. For the bench players this was a pressure to perform game against a team that was going to compete 100%. Come Nov/Dec I will take what was learned this game vs 3 pts from our DP and TAM players. Rickets and hassler are first off the bench. Cooper won't see any minutes in the playoffs. Spencer was so so. Just disappointed chapman didn't get a chance to show what he has in this type of situation

[Dunkers]

I also suspect that rickets just booked his flight to La via Chivas 2.0. He won't be protected and I am sure he would be picked up in the expansion draft if soley to play the same role for Chivas 2.0. He has been solid off the bench for over a season now.

[Oldtimer]

but now at most we could finish with 74 points, which by decimal points, would be behind LAG99 by a few decimal places (if spread over 34 game season - which leads to debate. we lost the chance to make it a non topic).



You forget that in the shootout era there were no draws. That offsets the shorter season.

[InDa_110]

Zavaletta has to go

[molenshtain]

Zavaletta has to go

he's been a mainstay at the back all year for one of the best defenses in the league. I wouldn't read too much into one performance.

[InDa_110]

Vanney obviously did.

[molenshtain]

It was a tactical substitution as much as it was taking off a player who was having a bad night. one bad 30 minute performance doesn't erase a season of very reliable play.

[PAOK17]

he's been a mainstay at the back all year for one of the best defenses in the league. I wouldn't read too much into one performance.
This was a shitty performance at home against our biggest rival. Having said that, we had our 3 best attacking players out, and despite our depth, the replacements we used were puzzling. Sure Osorio is one of the first of the bench, but he's no striker (as he seemed to have been in the start). He should have been in Cooper's position, with Hamilton in up top with Rickets. Spencer has a poor first touch, which might have not been as important in MLS back in 2007, but it's very noticeable in 2017. Throw in that it's a midweek match after cross-continent travel, and it's a recipe for disaster.

[InDa_110]

he's been a mainstay at the back all year for one of the best defenses in the league. I wouldn't read too much into one performance.

Zavaletta is slow, makes poor decisions, and gets beat very often. Without VV in lineup and Bradley having to assume a more offesive role his vulnerablity was greatly exposed.

Speaking of VV. He must become a dp next year or he's gone. I think this game made that very clear. Sorry to say but Jozy will have to be the expendable dp. It is just much harder to find a defensive mid like Bradley or a set play plus talented forward like giovinco.

I really think tonight showed VV is if not the best, then the most valuable player in the team. Don't think for one second every European scout in charge of north America doesn't have his name in their notes. Especially Barcelona who at one point thought he would be better than Messi

[AlanO]

Bizarre starting lineup. Was that supposed to be a 3-6-1 ? Not sure how Spencer is chosen over Hamilton or Chapman as the first sub.

Seems like the team saved up all their out-of-character mistakes for one match. Zavaleta, Bono, Morrow, Beitashour, Bradley made some basic errors. Hopefully this match is a reality check and prevents complacency / arrogance from setting in.

Positives - Ricketts was good. Hasler and Edwards added a spark.

Chalk this one up as "It's MLS". Strange things happen.

[TheSloanRanger]

I suggest everyone see their doctor tomorrow and ask for a chill pill.

It's a derby. Shit happens. We are the best team in the league. No one else is close.

Name a team in the history of sport who didn't face a single moment of adversity. Get over it.

Goodnight, and god bless TFC

[notthesun]

Zavaletta is slow, makes poor decisions, and gets beat very often. Without VV in lineup and Bradley having to assume a more offesive role his vulnerablity was greatly exposed.

Speaking of VV. He must become a dp next year or he's gone. I think this game made that very clear. Sorry to say but Jozy will have to be the expendable dp. It is just much harder to find a defensive mid like Bradley or a set play plus talented forward like giovinco.

I really think tonight showed VV is if not the best, then the most valuable player in the team. Don't think for one second every European scout in charge of north America doesn't have his name in their notes. Especially Barcelona who at one point thought he would be better than Messi

You're overreacting on all fronts my man. Barcelona is not keeping tabs on Victor Vazquez, c'mon lol

[InDa_110]

I suggest everyone see their doctor tomorrow and ask for a chill pill.

It's a derby. Shit happens. We are the best team in the league. No one else is close.

Name a team in the history of sport who didn't face a single moment of adversity. Get over it.

Goodnight, and god bless TFC

LOL!! That's gotta make top ten funniest post of all time.

[InDa_110]

You're overreacting on all fronts my man. Barcelona is not keeping tabs on Victor Vazquez, c'mon lol

If European scouts don't have his name in their notes they are being negligent at the very least. Including Barcelona.

[molenshtain]

If European scouts don't have his name in their notes they are being negligent at the very least. Including Barcelona.

He's not that good dude. MLS defenses are still MLS defenses.

This scenario also presupposes that Vazquez is looking to up root his family for a third time in four years. Highly, Highly unlikely given everything he's said in the media since arriving.

[Prof]

The big picture is vanney knows who will step up on demand off the bench. Every player on the team would have known going into the game this is a chance to prove your worth. Some players stepped up others not so much. For the bench players this was a pressure to perform game against a team that was going to compete 100%. Come Nov/Dec I will take what was learned this game vs 3 pts from our DP and TAM players. Rickets and hassler are first off the bench. Cooper won't see any minutes in the playoffs. Spencer was so so. Just disappointed chapman didn't get a chance to show what he has in this type of situation

Hasler has shown and proved that he deserves to start over Beita. No question in my mind he is the best choice at the right wing back position.

[ag futbol]

He's not that good dude. MLS defenses are still MLS defenses.

This scenario also presupposes that Vazquez is looking to up root his family for a third time in four years. Highly, Highly unlikely given everything he's said in the media since arriving.
I think we've (at least with TFC) started to move to the next stage of MLS play tactically.

In the past, teams with a physically dominant midfield tended to rule the day. Didn't matter if they were that good positionally because the ball never moved fast enough to expose the gaps in behind. But now...

[InDa_110]

He's not that good dude. MLS defenses are still MLS defenses.

This scenario also presupposes that Vazquez is looking to up root his family for a third time in four years. Highly, Highly unlikely given everything he's said in the media since arriving.

Going back to Spain is hardly uprooting his family.

Anyhow, yes mls defences are mls defences. The lack of his presence tonight showed his value. That is my point. And I will stand by my assertion that if he is not paid dp money here he will take an offer in Europe.

To suggest that the best play maker in mls is not in the radar of European clubs is nonesense. European clubs spend millions of dollars a year in scouting and find talent 12,000 feet up south American mountains. And you really don't think VV is being scouted because he plays in mls?

My point is he needs dp money to stay. Very simple.

[molenshtain]

Going back to Spain is hardly uprooting his family.

Anyhow, yes mls defences are mls defences. The lack of his presence tonight showed his value. That is my point. And I will stand by my assertion that if he is not paid dp money here he will take an offer in Europe.

To suggest that the best play maker in mls is not in the radar of European clubs is nonesense. European clubs spend millions of dollars a year in scouting and find talent 12,000 feet up south American mountains. And you really don't think VV is being scouted because he plays in mls?

My point is he needs dp money to stay. Very simple.

Contrary to all evidence , though. That's my point. He wouldn't have signed his contract if he wasn't comfortable with it. He says he and his family love the city and everything that comes with playing in MLS; Less intensity from the fans, more job stability, he gets paid on time, his kids can go to good schools here. Going back to Europe for the twilight of his career to fight for a spot in a volatile situation goes against all of that.

[ag futbol]

I suggest everyone see their doctor tomorrow and ask for a chill pill.

It's a derby. Shit happens. We are the best team in the league. No one else is close.

Name a team in the history of sport who didn't face a single moment of adversity. Get over it.

Goodnight, and god bless TFC
Agreed. Watching people lose their minds here is rather funny. I'll grab my popcorn.

[InDa_110]

Agreed. Watching people lose their minds here is rather funny. I'll grab my popcorn.
I'm not losing my mind.

I started out by saying zavaleta is the weakest link in our defense when Bradley has to assume a more offensive role due to the absence of VV. Zavaleta got exposed tonight and vanney saw it I assume the way I did.

Then I said speaking of VV I think he needs dp money to stay because his absence tonight proved his value. I also said I think european clubs are taking note of him and quite frankly I believe he is the most valuable player in mls and to tfc.

If that's losing my mind d then check me into the nearest institution.

[stevep]

I was concered about this week of games. travel to california back here on wednesday night then travel a few days later to play on that garbage turf in new england
if you want to blame anything for this loss it is the schedule and your 3 best players in the league not playing tonight
still magic number is 5, any combination of 5 points from tfc and dropped points from nycfc and we win supporters shield

after new england game, schedule is smooth sailing. nice rest period between games,

[noimpactinmtl]

If European scouts don't have his name in their notes they are being negligent at the very least. Including Barcelona.

They're looking for young talent they can poach directly. Vazquez is a known quantity. I'd be more worried about Mavinga.

[Auzzy]

I agree about many of the issues mentioned. I also think this game was an excellent wake-up call against complacency or haughtiness. Hopefully it will help TFC prepare better for the playoffs. Other than that I won't get too worked up about this game.

I think tonight showed that Vazquez has become our most irreplaceable player.

One issue that wasn't really mentioned: I was not at all happy with Bradley's play during this game. Far from the only problem on the field. But he's the captain; the only available DP. He needed to step up big time; it was mostly the opposite. Actually some of his issues and tendencies show up in other game as well, but normally the team around him is so strong that some things are papered over. I won't get into it too much because Bradley enjoys almost god-like stature around here. I'll watch how he responds in the next games.

[molenshtain]

Part of the Problem I have with evaluating Bradley in games like this is that his job was made extremely hard with Vanney's lineup. He plays better when he knows where other guys are gonna be. That was totally absent tonight, with the other four CM's having exactly zero clue where to run off the ball. Bradley certainly wasn't at his best but he wasn't exactly put in a position to succeed.

[Auzzy]

Part of the Problem I have with evaluating Bradley in games like this is that his job was made extremely hard with Vanney's lineup. He plays better when he knows where other guys are gonna be. That was totally absent tonight, with the other four CM's having exactly zero clue where to run off the ball. Bradley certainly wasn't at his best but he wasn't exactly put in a position to succeed.

That was part of it; but there was far more to it.

[SirBobSaget]

I suggest everyone see their doctor tomorrow and ask for a chill pill.

It's a derby. Shit happens. We are the best team in the league. No one else is close.

Name a team in the history of sport who didn't face a single moment of adversity. Get over it.

Goodnight, and god bless TFC

So where were you sitting ? All you guys saying chill out were sitting at home with the tv on in the background. Did you spend ?$ and 6 hours of your day to watch the team play like it was a preseason game?

[magmadragon]

Talked to Giovinco after the game. Unless we misunderstood each other, he says he won't play this Saturday.

[Blindside16]

I just need to get the poison out for a minute. What an absolute shit show that was from top to bottom tonight. Everyone from Vanney down should offer up an apology for that farce they trotted out there tonight. We couldn't make 2 passes in a row to save our life, there was zero push back and intensity until the last 15 minutes or so when the game was long out of reach. Cooper needs to fuck off and take Spencer with him. Osorio, please please please shoot the goddamn ball!! I thought Bradley had a solid game, at least he was competing for the ball. I have never seen so many instances if guys simply just standing around watching. I really feel sorry for Bono he didn't deserve to have 5 goals hung on him tonight.

Fuck Montreal, Fuck this game :banghead:

Ahhhh I feel a bit better now. This game can be written off, I just hope it doesn't snowball any further than a one off shit show.

[SirBobSaget]

To continue ranting why was Spencer brought in over Hamilton? Spencer doesn't even deserve to play at TFC2 with 1 goal in 12 appearances. Is it because of his height? Well sorry but he plays like a soft 5'8 forward witha 2 inch vertical leap.

[SirBobSaget]

Also I was really rooting for Cooper to have a statement game seeing he had his daughter with him pregame. Can understand that a baby can effect the ability to focus as he might have been having to juggle things.

But then the constant giveaways then falling down and walking back at a snails pace each time he lost possession really got on my nerves. At one point he was 30 yards offside when Bradley won the ball back hoping to pick up an attacker breaking the offside trap.

He's good as gone at the end of this season and don't even waste a bench spot including him in the 17.

[Greatest Ripoff]

And why Spencer? Honestly. He's not ready.

He never will be. In three years with TFC2 he has scored 1 goal (significantly less productive than Babouli). Really have no idea how he can be picked ahead of players that can actually score in MLS.

[DOMIN8R]

He never will be. In three years with TFC2 he has scored 1 goal (significantly less productive than Babouli). Really have no idea how he can be picked ahead of players that can actually score in MLS.

Because he needs game minutes. Greg needed to change it up, by that point. At least, he helps Spencer gain match minutes and put another complimentary attacking threat up front. What other choice did he have? Not too many options at that point, frankly.

[DOMIN8R]

It pains me to say this. But Montreal looked damn good last night. I was really impressed. If they play like that and we meet them in the playoffs - it's going to be a dog fight.

[ensco]

So where were you sitting ? All you guys saying chill out were sitting at home with the tv on in the background. Did you spend ?$ and 6 hours of your day to watch the team play like it was a preseason game?

Actually I was at the game and I say chill out.

All this stuff about not stringing passes together - we scored 3 and could have had 3 more. We opened them up like a can opener on set pieces, just like last year, but Spencer couldn't put away open headers. (I agree with the questions about the Spencer experiment, but assume Vanney knows what he is doing)

Our back line was as terrible as I have seen in years, all of them were doing bizarre things. I love Mavinga but the breakaways happened in part because he was roaming way upfield.

Ricketts is a legend, btw. Seriously.

Getting and keeping the vets healthy, NOT the Supporters Shield, is the priority. People who were booing at the game, they have lost the plot.

[ensco]

Why was that not a straight red for dangerous play on Busch btw? He never got that close to the ball. Seemed like textbook dangerous play.

[OgtheDim]

Yeah, Spencer improved his play last night. And Hamilton doesn't really compliment Ricketts. BUT, we misused Ricketts all game. Guy was making runs and people just passed it sideways. When Seba & Jozy are in there, somebody tries a pass on a run every few minutes. Last night...not one. Too much timidity. Oh, and sometimes you just gotta shoot the damn ball.

I liked what Hasler brought. The one goal where he brought it in and it swung out to the left to come back in was created through his urgency.

[CBTFC]

So where were you sitting ? All you guys saying chill out were sitting at home with the tv on in the background. Did you spend ?$ and 6 hours of your day to watch the team play like it was a preseason game?

Or maybe you need to get over yourself??

Sorry but dude is right. Hell even Real Madrid lost to Real Betis yesterday.

C'est la vie, move on.

[Initial B]

After a night's sleep, I can look at the game a little more philosophically.

Last night all the players on the pitch seemed off. Passes were two touch instead of one, either too far ahead or behind, with players second-guessing themselves close to goal. I'm sure Vanney brought in Spenser to add height to the frontline and take some pressure off Tos, but his performance just guaranteed him that he won't see the starting 18 for the rest of the season. I remember after the 4th goal the cameras cut to Vanney on the sideline and he looked shocked at the breakdown, like whatever he said in the locker room at the half seemed to have no effect. This also highlighted just how much Vasquez contributes to the team. He's my MVP this year.

I'm sure they'll learn from this. I'm actually surprised at this forum that there isn't more rage and angst at theis result like there would have been in previous years. Maybe we're all maturing? :D

Well, on to the next one...

[Globetrotter]

You forget that in the shootout era there were no draws. That offsets the shorter season.

I think it needs to be looked at differently. LA played 4 overtime games. You dont get 3 points for an overtime win, you get 1. You get 0 points for a loss. There record was 2-2 in shootouts. So instead of getting 4 points (4 ties in modern style), they got 2 points only. That means under today's point system, they would have had 70 points over 32 games instead of the 68 they were credited for.

That's 2.1875 points per game. Keeping that PPG over 34 games totals 74.375 points for LAG99. TFC now, at best, can hit only hit 74. We needed 4 wins and a tie to hit 75 points.

[Derko]

The whole management of this game is puzzling. As if there was a strategic decision to dump this game. That can't possibly be true.

Our theory at the end of the game, is the typical Canadian team helps another Canadian team make the playoffs, TFC just didn't play hard enough, there were what maybe 2 fouls called, 1 for each side in the first half, after the second IMFC goal, TFC needed to hard tackle one or 2 of the IMFC players. TFC were too damn soft.

[ag futbol]

Because he needs game minutes. Greg needed to change it up, by that point. At least, he helps Spencer gain match minutes and put another complimentary attacking threat up front. What other choice did he have? Not too many options at that point, frankly.
Game minutes with the first team are for people who have proved themselves at the lower level at the least. Here, we seem to have an example of a guy who isn't performing at a lower level, yet continues to be selected over someone who is.

Any of Edwards, Chapman, Hamilton at that stage would have been a better choice. I find it crazy how far down the depth chart Edwards has fallen. He has his flaws, but there is a true example of needing game minutes... he performs when he's on the field and has shown he's above a TFC II level.

Anyway, all this is to say I'm still in strong support of Vanney but these quirks are a little frustrating.

Edit: heck, based on run of play at TFC II I might even say Endoh is more deserving of minutes.

[Canary10]

Part of this was playing a team who was motivated and desperate for the points. We were neither last night. People do need to chill. We'll win the SS and host the final if we make it. Our top players will be rested. Winning the cup is what matters.

I just hate that it was Montreal.

[TheGoodson]

After taking the night to digest what happened, I realized in the big picture in a 34 game season they were bound to have a game like this. We were also missing 3 of our best players, take the 3 best players from any MLS team and the results will be the same...

We are still 9 points up with 4 games to its not the end of the world. Would I like to break all the records sure, but what is more important is that everyone is healthy and ready for the playoffs, Everyone freaking out needs to remember were we came from and the first 8 1/2 years of this squad. This was a regular occurrence before so RELAX!!!

[fergiejr]

I just hate that it was Montreal.

Yup.

My takeaways.
We fought back and kept fighting. We didn't get all the way there (apparently the fourth official doesn't know how to add) but we did fight. And, Montreal squandered a very good lead. If we had 10 more minutes we may have gotten another one back. This will have to effects. 1) It gives our boys hope - they won't go into New England feeling AS sorry for themselves and 2) it will have scared the shit out of Montreal. If we had our head in the game from the beginning it would have been a different night.

Also, Ben Spencer needs more time on TFCII. He's not ready for the big leagues.

[BelfastBoy]

TFC was missing 3/4 all-world players. It just amazing though the mileage that Montreal gets out of players like Piatti and Donadel. Going forward management needs to find value players like this unless they are always going to be willing to spend the mega-bucks.

[Oldtimer]

I think it needs to be looked at differently. LA played 4 overtime games. You dont get 3 points for an overtime win, you get 1. You get 0 points for a loss. There record was 2-2 in shootouts. So instead of getting 4 points (4 ties in modern style), they got 2 points only. That means under today's point system, they would have had 70 points over 32 games instead of the 68 they were credited for.

That's 2.1875 points per game. Keeping that PPG over 34 games totals 74.375 points for LAG99. TFC now, at best, can hit only hit 74. We needed 4 wins and a tie to hit 75 points.

I agree with your analysis. So TFC will not be able to really have the best record ever.


That doesn't really matter much to me as long as TFC wins the shield and the cup.

For a bit of perspective though, the league has gone so far and changed so much in the DP era, any MLS 1.0 records are essentially meaningless. I'm pretty sure that any of the bottom feeders today are significantly better than that 1998 Galaxy squad.

[Canary10]

Another takeaway: our defense gets overwhelmed by teams who attack directly and with pace. Which is also how Atlanta plays from what I've seen of them. We really need to sort that out.

The world class players we were missing were on the other end of the pitch, and we actually looked fine going forward. I expect more from essentially our first choice defense. That's a bit worrisome.

[UpTheReds]

Look at any record setting, championship season in any sport and you will see a game where the team in the midst of that season got blasted somewhere. It happens. The only thing that matters now is that a great team responds after this type of game. It commands a response.

[ScarboroughRed]

Hmmmm....

This feels like the San Jose game from last year, maybe worst due to it being Montreal but it was the wake up call this team needed from all the good press. And, my dad as a coach always harped this to me, you want your team to have the bad games before things start to matter so this was good to get out the system.

On the Spencer thing... He needs TFC II time still. Would have liked to see any of Hamilton, Hasler (played upfront for country), jeez even Endoh lol.

That Oct. 15 game just regained its meaning again.

[Kaz]

Dude he's gonna cruise to Coach of the Year by a mile. I know you don't like him but we're going to win the Shield and there are no better candidates.

Did you watch them play in LA? Did you watch them play today? He isn't coaching? where was the coaching today? where was the preparation? where was the sharpness in the players? This is not a team that was coached well.

In LA they suck and it would seem Vasquez makes up for a lot.

The Pitch was in poor shape... A good coaches sees that and adjusts. Montreal is desperate and better than they have been playing... a good coach knows that and prepares for that. We were missing major pieces a good coach knows that and prepares for that.

Ya it is one game.. but coach of the year should have done at least ONE of those things. This game I'm sorry should cost him that award because this was the worse performance this year.

Cooper should have never been on the pitch.. and if he starts again this season without showing improvement omg. it constantly spent too much time, was too slow making decisions. The whole team seemed afraid to attack quickly.

At 3 down I wasn't too worried as I know we could pull three back. Particularly after the first goal. Once the 4th goal happened I shut the TV off because the game was over and it was just really poor.

And that Pitch was disgusting.

[C.Ronaldo]

poor starting line up choices true

even worse 1st sub. Spencer is nowhere near ready

but at the end of they day, the players were lazy, slow and sloppy.

[C.Ronaldo]

Game minutes with the first team are for people who have proved themselves at the lower level at the least. Here, we seem to have an example of a guy who isn't performing at a lower level, yet continues to be selected over someone who is.

Any of Edwards, Chapman, Hamilton at that stage would have been a better choice. I find it crazy how far down the depth chart Edwards has fallen. He has his flaws, but there is a true example of needing game minutes... he performs when he's on the field and has shown he's above a TFC II level.

Anyway, all this is to say I'm still in strong support of Vanney but these quirks are a little frustrating.

Edit: heck, based on run of play at TFC II I might even say Endoh is more deserving of minutes.

Hamilton's hold up play has really improved. He is better 10/10 times over that lanky pylon.

[notthesun]

Did you watch them play in LA? Did you watch them play today? He isn't coaching? where was the coaching today? where was the preparation? where was the sharpness in the players? This is not a team that was coached well.

In LA they suck and it would seem Vasquez makes up for a lot.

What? We were great in LA. It was individual mistakes by Zavaleta that put us in the hole to start with in this one; from there I agree Vanney had us playing too recklessly. Montreal is the worst team we could have played being without our top 3 attackers because they play the best bunker and counter in the league.

Vanney made errors yesterday, he admitted as much. What's the big deal? Real Madrid lost to an underdog yesterday too.

Your response is just way out of proportion, I'm sorry. We've lost 4 games this year and this one was a clear massive anomaly compared to our recent play. Nobody is going to remember this game when we lift the Shield and Vanney will deservedly stroll to the Coach of the Year award.

[ensco]

The Pitch was in poor shape...

And that Pitch was disgusting.

Nobody was a bigger skeptic about Argo groundsharing and the potential for problems than me.

I sat in the third row last night. This statement is absurd. The pitch was perfect.

My hat is off to the groundskeepers.

[shwade]

I do wonder what Vanney has against Hamilton...he's done good with the chances he's gotten and then Spencer who hasn't done anything just gets to come in and take that spot...

[C.Ronaldo]

The assumption is that Hamilton doesn't put in the work in practice. Hamilton is clearly the better player at this point but if that is the story than it's at least somewhat understandable.

thats silly way to pick team players, its not like they are close in talent

if it was a tie in talent give it to the harder working one.

but spencer is just not ready.

[Cas87]

Driving home listen to TSN radio with Wheeler and Dunfield after the game last night they stated that it seemed to be Spencer in almost as an audition. Both presumed that Vanney put him on as Hamilton is a known commodity to him, Spencer not so much (only can go off TFC2 tape and coaches). With the performance last night, Hamilton WILL be the choice to put in if Seba and Jozy need to be subbed/need time off with Ricketts.