Are TFC the 100th best club team in the world?

[gmacpheetfc]

Discuss

[Wagner]

fun poll, discussion.

is there some article or ranking that spawned this?

if so, i'd be interested in a link to it.

[fergiejr]

Gotta ask Danny K.

[Richard]

I think we would be quite competetive in The Championship.

[Oldtimer]

Why not? It's a fun idea.

[Bobo]

No. 1 with a bullet.

[Canary10]

100? No. 106th? Now you have yourself a debate.

[Oldtimer]

Gotta ask Danny K.

I'd love to hear how he feels. I know he follows the team.

[jabbronies]

Would love to see an initial ranking of teams rather than just guessing

79 teams are in the champions league
160 teams in Europa league

This doesn't take South America or Mexico

So I'd say no. Closer to 200 than 100 - maybe even 300

[TFC Tifoso]

Would love to see an initial ranking of teams rather than just guessing

79 teams are in the champions league
160 teams in Europa league

This doesn't take South America or Mexico

So I'd say no. Closer to 200 than 100 - maybe even 300

that's not fair to say though. I mean, some of those clubs in the qualification round are teams from very small countries, only in there by virtue of their league just happening to be in Europe.
IMO, you can't say just because a team is in the Qualifying round of CL or EL, they're automatically better than TFC.
Teams who got automatic qualification of course are better, but I think we can give a good game to AT LEAST 50% of the teams currently in the qualifying rounds.
Might be crazy, but just my opinion....

100 is not too far off.....the top halves of England, Spain, Germany, and Italy (plus say top quarter, at least, of France) with maybe some SA or Mexican teams included would take up the first 50, then it could get interesting....

[rydermike]

According to this we are 508th, (FC Dallas is 425th top MLS) http://footballdatabase.com/ranking/world/11

335th here (FC Dallas is 184 - top MLS) https://www.clubworldranking.com/ranking-clubs/wd/34/yr/2017/name/toronto

[Eastend]

Gotta ask Danny K.


I'd love to hear how he feels. I know he follows the team.

Just sent him a tweet. Will let you know what/if he responds.

[jabbronies]

that's not fair to say though. I mean, some of those clubs in the qualification round are teams from very small countries, only in there by virtue of their league just happening to be in Europe.
IMO, you can't say just because a team is in the Qualifying round of CL or EL, they're automatically better than TFC.
Teams who got automatic qualification of course are better, but I think we can give a good game to AT LEAST 50% of the teams currently in the qualifying rounds.
Might be crazy, but just my opinion....

100 is not too far off.....the top halves of England, Spain, Germany, and Italy (plus say top quarter, at least, of France) with maybe some SA or Mexican teams included would take up the first 50, then it could get interesting....

Ya I can agree that some of those CL and EL teams are minnows that TFC could compete with, but even if you half those numbers - which is being very generous - that still means TFC won't be in the Top 120.

And if you factor in teams just outside of a place in European competition - we are talking about teams like Everton, Southampton, Leicester, Werder Bremner, Schalke, Bayer Leverkusen, Espanyol, Inter, Fiorentina

And again, this is not including teams from South America and Mexico, some richer teams in Middle east, China, Japan...etc etc

If you made a list with all this factored in you are looking at TFC being in the 200's at best
Like do't even rank the other teams, just make a list of all the teams that are better than TFC and see how far down they go.

Love this club, but reality is, they are not with the big boys yet. They are middle tier team at best

[ensco]

100 is not too far off.....the top halves of England, Spain, Germany, and Italy (plus say top quarter, at least, of France) with maybe some SA or Mexican teams included would take up the first 50, then it could get interesting....

No, it's far off. Every team in the top four leagues is much better than TFC. The worst EPL team has a payroll that is 4x what TFC spends.

Plus half of the Mexican, Brazilian and Argentine top divisions would be better.

Plus most of the Championship has a higher payroll than us.

Same for best 3 or 4 teams in the top flights in the next 12 countries in Europe, and the next 6 countries in South America. (TFC would stand no chance against a top team from Russia, Turkey, Poland, Uruguay, Chile, Colombia etc)

We are similar to the biggest clubs in places like Egypt and Japan, which are very good, and might be better than us.

I think 150-200th is about right.

[OgtheDim]

Apples to Oranges to Grapes to Mangoes

[Mr. Bigby]

According to this we are 508th, (FC Dallas is 425th top MLS) http://footballdatabase.com/ranking/world/11

335th here (FC Dallas is 184 - top MLS) https://www.clubworldranking.com/ranking-clubs/wd/34/yr/2017/name/toronto
Um yeah. Given FCD's record this year versus TFC, I suspect the criteria might be just a tad out of date...

[ensco]

Apples to Oranges to Grapes to Mangoes

Payroll is a pretty decent proxy

[TFC1154ever]

Yes but to only a certain extent. I think TFC could beat some of the lower end EPL teams at home. Same with Serie A and La Liga and Bunduliga. I would put TFC at anywhere around 90-110. 65-70 in Europe, about 25-30 in South America and Mexico and a handful elsewhere.

[molenshtain]

No, it's far off. Every team in the top four leagues is much better than TFC. The worst EPL team has a payroll that is 4x what TFC spends.

Plus half of the Mexican, Brazilian and Argentine top divisions would be better.

Plus most of the Championship has a higher payroll than us.

Same for best 3 or 4 teams in the top flights in the next 12 countries in Europe, and the next 6 countries in South America. (TFC would stand no chance against a top team from Russia, Turkey, Poland, Uruguay, Chile, Colombia etc)

We are similar to the biggest clubs in places like Egypt and Japan, which are very good, and might be better than us.

I think 150-200th is about right.


I get your point, and to an extent it's certainly true. we're probably not in the top 100 just because there are a lot of good teams around the world and some decent teams at the bottom of the top 5 leagues that are better than us still.

But have you seen the quality at play in the championship recently? or even Poland or Japan or Egypt like you mentioned? I was in Japan a couple years ago and caught a game between Kashima antlers, who are perennial challengers, and a team called Omiya Ardija, a sort of wigan type team that just got promoted. The game was barely USL level. We would mop the floor with them either of them. I can't imagine even the better African leagues putting up anything better. Their best teams like TP Mazembe or Al-Ahly or Kaizer Chiefs could maybe hold us to a draw But even then I really doubt it.

I'm really not convinced the best teams in south America countries (excluding the obvious two) are obviously better than us either. If Luca Cavallini can light up your division it doesn't speak well to the quality of the league. Colo Colo would probably beat us. I'm trying to think of any other teams that are up to par with us.

If I'm going through a mid level championship squad there are a lot of guys I'd rather have from us. getting any of Bradley, Altidore, Seba, Vazquez, Delgado, Mavinga, Morrow, Bono and maybe Beita would instantly make a team better in that division. We might not be as deep but our starting eleven can go up against anyone in the championship.

This is obviously subjective just from what I've seen. outside Brazil, Argentina and most of the teams in the top 5 European leagues we would hold up pretty well. Championship teams for instance may have much bigger budgets, but they still suck most of the time. It's not our fault they're paying guys millions for a job that a guy Delgado could do for 2000k a year.


That's just my perspective on having watched a lot of different leagues. MLS is top-to-bottom probably the eight or ninth best league in the world. And us being far and away the best in our division we could certainly challenge many teams in leagues above us.

[rydermike]

Um yeah. Given FCD's record this year versus TFC, I suspect the criteria might be just a tad out of date...

Yeah, I'm assuming it's taking into account Dallas winning the Supporter's Shield and US Open Cup last year, and reaching the CL SF as a major factor. TFC is obviously better this year, so even if we give TFC Dallas' record that puts us at 184, which is in line with what several people have said here

[SirBobSaget]

Lets be realistic, if someone earning less than 500k on TFC could improve a club from a B league where the average wage is 1 million than they would be gone. TFC are behind every EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga team. That is just short of 80. Then you take (conservatively) the top 5 from B leagues like France, Holland, Turkey, Portugal, Belgium, Russia, Switzerland thats 35 more teams. Then there's the top teams from the Euro C leagues from ukraine, Poland, Austria, Greece, Romania, Denmark ... . That's another 30 teams. So nearly 150 and haven't ventured out of Europe yet.

[molenshtain]

See that's the thing. I'm not totally convinced teams like Cluj or Panathanaikos or Copenhagen are obviously better than us.

The reason the league's seemingly underpaid players don't go to Europe is because they basically can't. It's extremely hard to get a work visa. IIRC the big point of contention on whether or not you get to go to Europe is either A) having an EU passport or B) played in 75% of international matches over a specific - a think it's a year- period of time. There are tones of half decent players in this league who can't go overseas because they're unable to get a work permit.

[ensco]

^You may be right about Romania and Denmark. We may have passed Scandinavia. Places like Romania are hard to gauge because the top teams there are feeder systems to Germany and Italy, no one stays long enough for the team to gel.

Greece, no way. The top teams there are much, much deeper, top to bottom. Those are big clubs.

[molenshtain]

mmm maybe. Olympiakos are the only ones who sort of made it out of their economic crash reasonably unscathed. Panathanaikos and AEK and the rest of them have taken a serious downturn since 2011-2012. Even Olympiakos aren't what they used to be.

anyway. My overall point is we're no worse than the typical team that comes fourth in their champions league group. maybe with a little luck we could come third. I don't think we're really giving our front five enough credit. certainly talented enough to compete with some bigger teams.

[Oldtimer]

Knowing French football, TFC could beat any Ligue 2 side, and could compete with the bottom feeders of the Ligue 1 table. Top teams would beat TFC.

[flatpicker]

Apples to Oranges to Grapes to Mangoes

I suddenly want some fruit salad.

[TFC Tifoso]

Ya I can agree that some of those CL and EL teams are minnows that TFC could compete with, but even if you half those numbers - which is being very generous - that still means TFC won't be in the Top 120.

And if you factor in teams just outside of a place in European competition - we are talking about teams like Everton, Southampton, Leicester, Werder Bremner, Schalke, Bayer Leverkusen, Espanyol, Inter, Fiorentina

And again, this is not including teams from South America and Mexico, some richer teams in Middle east, China, Japan...etc etc

If you made a list with all this factored in you are looking at TFC being in the 200's at best
Like do't even rank the other teams, just make a list of all the teams that are better than TFC and see how far down they go.

Love this club, but reality is, they are not with the big boys yet. They are middle tier team at best

I've included these teams in my idea....they'll always be in the top half of the big 4 even if they miss out on Euro tourneys in a given year.
Same with Mex and SA teams....I though of those already....but even all of those only make up 50-60 teams.

But its so subjective anyways....personally, I rate the top end of MLS on par with teams in Saudi Arabia, China, and Japan.
I think that anything after 100 would be interchangeable for any given month or year, depending on form.

[molenshtain]

But its so subjective anyways....personally, I rate the top end of MLS on par with teams in Saudi Arabia, China, and Japan.
I think that anything after 100 would be interchangeable for any given month or year, depending on form.

Every team in MLS is miles ahead of those teams.

[TFC Tifoso]

No, it's far off. Every team in the top four leagues is much better than TFC. The worst EPL team has a payroll that is 4x what TFC spends.

Plus half of the Mexican, Brazilian and Argentine top divisions would be better.

Plus most of the Championship has a higher payroll than us.

Same for best 3 or 4 teams in the top flights in the next 12 countries in Europe, and the next 6 countries in South America. (TFC would stand no chance against a top team from Russia, Turkey, Poland, Uruguay, Chile, Colombia etc)

We are similar to the biggest clubs in places like Egypt and Japan, which are very good, and might be better than us.

I think 150-200th is about right.

We actually kinda agree...
The question is "Are TFC the 100th best club?"
I say basically, no but we're not far off.
150-200 is fair, but that could climb (or drop) based on form from year to year.

[OgtheDim]

Payroll is a pretty decent proxy

Until things like distance, weather, a rubbery salary cap, politics (see Serbia), and corruption get involved.

Its impossible to put every team/league down in a sealed environment where there are no variables beyond the quality of the players.

So what we are talking about is the eye test, which is also liable to hype.

[jabbronies]

We actually kinda agree...
The question is "Are TFC the 100th best club?"
I say basically, no but we're not far off.
150-200 is fair, but that could climb (or drop) based on form from year to year.

I think the only way they climb is if they make a convincing run in Champions League - which includes beating a decent Mexican team with the same ease Mexican teams typically handle MLS teams.
Even then - to be considered a top 100 team should be based on more than a years worth of events. I think a few seasons of sustained success is need to reach Top 150-100 status

[TFC Tifoso]

I think the only way they climb is if they make a convincing run in Champions League - which includes beating a decent Mexican team with the same ease Mexican teams typically handle MLS teams.
Even then - to be considered a top 100 team should be based on more than a years worth of events. I think a few seasons of sustained success is need to reach Top 150-100 status

I see your point, but imo this kind of stuff is always fluid, never set in stone.
Even say the top 10 in Europe can change from year to year based on performance.
Considering the small group there, the names will most likely be the same, just places change.....but when you're talking about such a large group like top 100 or 150, to me, one year can certainly make a difference in ranking that large of a group.

[SirBobSaget]

See that's the thing. I'm not totally convinced teams like Cluj or Panathanaikos or Copenhagen are obviously better than us.

The reason the league's seemingly underpaid players don't go to Europe is because they basically can't. It's extremely hard to get a work visa. IIRC the big point of contention on whether or not you get to go to Europe is either A) having an EU passport or B) played in 75% of international matches over a specific - a think it's a year- period of time. There are tones of half decent players in this league who can't go overseas because they're unable to get a work permit.

Those work permit rules are only for the UK. Most Euro nations are not as strict.

[Initial B]

If you look at the FiveThirtyEight SPI rankings (which I believe are more realtime), they rate TFC with a score of 46.8. Of the leagues they list there, the following number of teams have a higher SPI rating than TFC:

4 (Austria Bundesliga)
19 (English Premier League)
3 (English Championship)
17 (Ligue 1)
2 (Ligue 2)
18 (German Bundesliga)
2 (German Bundesliga 2)
18 (Serie A)
2 (Serie B)
6 (Eredivisie)
1 (Norway Eliteserien)
6 (Portugal Liga Primeira)
11 (Russia Premier League)
1 (Scotland Premiership)
20 (Spain La Liga)
4 (Spain ErediLa Liga 2)
2 (Sweden Allsvenskan)
2 (Swiss Super League)
7 (Turkey Super Lig)
2 (Liga MX)
11 (Argentina Superliga)
11 (Brasileirao)
169 TOTAL

So you could make the case that TFC is at least in the top 170-200 teams in the world. g:D

[Areathrasher]

That list above looks about right - id nitpick a couple but on the whole it's close. I'd probably include Atletico Nacional and Junior from Colombia in it too.

[StokeciTFC]

That list above looks about right - id nitpick a couple but on the whole it's close. I'd probably include Atletico Nacional and Junior from Colombia in it too.

I wold generally agree with that list, too other than a couple of glaring omissions, ie, it suggests TFC is bigger than either Celtic or Rangers. Which we aren't.

[Areathrasher]

I wold generally agree with that list, too other than a couple of glaring omissions, ie, it suggests TFC is bigger than either Celtic or Rangers. Which we aren't.

It's not club size, just form. Celtic are ahead of TFC btw.

List here https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

Methodology here https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/real-madrid-arsenal-la-galaxy-boca-juniors-in-one-giant-power-ranking/

[reggie]

Knowing French football, TFC could beat any Ligue 2 side, and could compete with the bottom feeders of the Ligue 1 table. Top teams would beat TFC.
i wonder if TFC could beat TFC:rolleyes:

[SirBobSaget]

There's a few league missing that have a handful of competitive teams in the Champions/Europa tourneys; Denmark, Belgium, Greece, Ukraine. Other than that its pretty accurate

[ensco]

Liga MX is underrepresented in that list.

Great thread.

[Shakes McQueen]

The real question is how you rate our non-DP starters, compared to other leagues.

Seba, Bradley and Altidore might be productive on a Top 100 team, but what about some of the guys making a couple hundred thousand a year?

I'd place us around 200-250 internationally, but it can be hard to gauge because MLS lineups are so lopsided talent-wise, with the DP stuff. European teams tend to either have money, or not.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Plus half of the Mexican, Brazilian and Argentine top divisions would be better.


IMO this is extremely off.

RIGHT NOW 4-4 teams in these 3 divisions are better than TFC, that's 12 teams in these 3 countries.

[Areathrasher]

IMO this is extremely off.

RIGHT NOW 4-4 teams in these 3 divisions are better than TFC, that's 12 teams in these 3 countries.

4 teams? What are you basing that off?

[Gazza_55]

The real question is how you rate our non-DP starters, compared to other leagues.

Seba, Bradley and Altidore might be productive on a Top 100 team, but what about some of the guys making a couple hundred thousand a year?

I'd place us around 200-250 internationally, but it can be hard to gauge because MLS lineups are so lopsided talent-wise, with the DP stuff. European teams tend to either have money, or not.

But to be fair wouldn't you have to take the top 3 players off the teams you are comparing to TFC as well? And what players are you replacing Gio, MB and JA with? Vasquez type players or Morrow type players?

[Gazza_55]

Yes but to only a certain extent. I think TFC could beat some of the lower end EPL teams at home. Same with Serie A and La Liga and Bunduliga. I would put TFC at anywhere around 90-110. 65-70 in Europe, about 25-30 in South America and Mexico and a handful elsewhere.

This. I have TFC around 80 to 140. Hopefully we will get to see them in the WCC next December.

[Defoe]

According to this we are 508th, (FC Dallas is 425th top MLS) http://footballdatabase.com/ranking/world/11

335th here (FC Dallas is 184 - top MLS) https://www.clubworldranking.com/ranking-clubs/wd/34/yr/2017/name/toronto

According to this; Olimpia (yes, the team you may recognize in CCL) is ranked 106. They are ranked ahead of 15 + Liga MX, all MLS Teams, West Ham United, Wolfsburg,Galatasaray etc.

[SirBobSaget]

According to this; Olimpia (yes, the team you may recognize in CCL) is ranked 106. They are ranked ahead of 15 + Liga MX, all MLS Teams, West Ham United, Wolfsburg,Galatasaray etc.




Thats the olimpia from paraguay not honduras. Seeing 2 estonian clubs in the 50s discredits this list to me.

[ensco]

I am now way outside my swim lane here, because I really don't watch Serie A, but I suspect TFC probably could give a decent game to the bottom feeders there. The academy systems away from the big clubs have apparently withered there, and the payrolls of minnows have dropped drastically.

I do watch La Liga, and there is no way TFC could compete at the bottom end there. The brilliance of the two big teams kind of blinds you to how good the overall quality is there. The pressure on the ball, and the overall pace, are at another level.

[kodiakTFC]

i wonder if TFC could beat TFC:rolleyes:

Toulouse FC vs. Toronto FC

Dream match up.

[ManUtd4ever]

This club, as currently constructed, can definitely crack the top 100 club teams in the world in my opinion. I would go as far as to suggest that in a one off, we could hold our own against any club outside of the top clubs in Europe.

[69Chevy396]

I would rather watch and support TFC as a 200th ranked club, than the Leafs, who rank 20 or 30 in hockey.

[ensco]

I would rather watch and support TFC as a 200th ranked club, than the Leafs, who rank 20 or 30 in hockey.

Anyone on here who has been around as long as you have feels the same way!

I think it says more about "us" than "it"!

Not it that it matters

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Then there's the top teams from the Euro C leagues from ukraine, Poland, Austria, Greece, Romania

Please, please, please.... for the love of God don't say such ridiculous things!

I'm Hungarian, but born and spent over 32 years of my life in Transylvania (ancient Hungarian land, given to Romania, when Hungary was savagely dismembered, being on the loser side after the 1st world war).

I have watched tons of Romania first division games, live too, ...my home city's team was many years in that division. Romanian 1st league was a lot better 10-15 years ago, and beyond that. Right now not even a single team from Romania can come even close to TFC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This thread title is what holds back most casual sports fans in Canada. The Leafs comment above comes closer to it as well. Most would rather watch a low number in a less played sport because they don't see past the national fishbowl.

I'm all for supporting ones own. Just keep a little perspective.

Same goes for Womens vs Mens National Teams.

[Cuppy]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

moved up up last week to 163rd

[Initial B]

^ I really like that 538 makes all the changes pretty much in real time. Interestingly, we are sandwiched between Hull City and Pescara above us, and Parma and Huddersfield below us. I have a feeling that before the season is done, TFC will rank in the top 150.

[BelfastBoy]

How would TFC rate against the USMT or Mexico?

[Detroit_TFC]

Now at 176, but says +11, not sure what happened, unless they added more teams and reindexed it.

[Initial B]

They just added the Europa League and Champions League teams that aren't a part of leagues included in the table, like Slavia Prague and Viktoria Plzen (both in the Czech First League and higher rated than TFC :facepalm:) .

Just for comparison, TFC would be ranked ahead of 2 teams in Champions League play (NK Maribor [Slovenia] and Qarabag [Azerbaijan]) and ahead of 16 teams (out of 80) in Europa League play.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Please, please, please.... for the love of God don't say such ridiculous things!

I'm Hungarian, but born and spent over 32 years of my life in Transylvania (ancient Hungarian land, given to Romania, when Hungary was savagely dismembered, being on the loser side after the 1st world war).

I have watched tons of Romania first division games, live too, ...my home city's team was many years in that division. Romanian 1st league was a lot better 10-15 years ago, and beyond that. Right now not even a single team from Romania can come even close to TFC.


I am going to have to disagree with you. I've seen Astra Giurgiu play live twice in the previous two Europa Leagues. They aren't even the best club in Romania and they knocked out West Ham two years straight. In the Europa League last season they even came second in their group and made the knockout round. I think you very much under estimating the current quality of Romanian clubs.

[molenshtain]

I am going to have to disagree with you. I've seen Astra Giurgiu play live twice in the previous two Europa Leagues. They aren't even the best club in Romania and they knocked out West Ham two years straight. In the Europa League last season they even came second in their group and made the knockout round. I think you very much under estimating the current quality of Romanian clubs.

I'd be willing to bet we could knock a rotated West Ham squad out of the Europa league too.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I'd be willing to bet we could knock a rotated West Ham squad out of the Europa league too.

And make the knockout rounds of the Europa League while balancing the league?

[molenshtain]

And make the knockout rounds of the Europa League while balancing the league?

In a top heavy league like the Romanian league? yeah I do.

[trane]

If you look at the FiveThirtyEight SPI rankings (which I believe are more realtime), they rate TFC with a score of 46.8. Of the leagues they list there, the following number of teams have a higher SPI rating than TFC:

4 (Austria Bundesliga)
19 (English Premier League)
3 (English Championship)
17 (Ligue 1)
2 (Ligue 2)
18 (German Bundesliga)
2 (German Bundesliga 2)
18 (Serie A)
2 (Serie B)
6 (Eredivisie)
1 (Norway Eliteserien)
6 (Portugal Liga Primeira)
11 (Russia Premier League)
1 (Scotland Premiership)
20 (Spain La Liga)
4 (Spain ErediLa Liga 2)
2 (Sweden Allsvenskan)
2 (Swiss Super League)
7 (Turkey Super Lig)
2 (Liga MX)
11 (Argentina Superliga)
11 (Brasileirao)
169 TOTAL

So you could make the case that TFC is at least in the top 170-200 teams in the world. g:D

I was looking at the list, and while I think that we could challenge some of those clubs, and I am only considering clubs that I have seen play, I think that for the duration of the season, facing the same competition those clubs may still do better, due to better and more consistent on filed organization, but we are getting there were we are challenging them.

I think we could play and hold our own, against mid and lower clubs in the top leagues, but I am not sure how we would fair entire season.

At the end, as an answer to the question posed, I would say maybe, just because I am looking at the top 100 and there are a few clubs there that I would think we could compete against as we are presently constituted, solid organizationally/defensively and with Bradley, Vazques, Altidore and Giovinco giving us a push upward in terms of talent.

[Davenport]

Would love to see an initial ranking of teams rather than just guessing

79 teams are in the champions league
160 teams in Europa league

This doesn't take South America or Mexico

So I'd say no. Closer to 200 than 100 - maybe even 300
Maybe 500. We're very good in our league, but the top 300 put's in a premier league somewhere in a proper football nation and we're not there...yet !

[Davenport]

I'd be willing to bet we could knock a rotated West Ham squad out of the Europa league too.
Nice thought, but not close....at the moment.

[molenshtain]

Nice thought, but not close....at the moment.

Agree to disagree. Look at the lineups West ham trotted out in those games. Our best 11 could very well get a result against them.

[Davenport]

Agree to disagree. Look at the lineups West ham trotted out in those games. Our best 11 could very well get a result against them.
Maybe 2 out 0f 10. Wish it was more...I'm not a fan of the 'ammers

[Greatest Ripoff]

Agree to disagree. Look at the lineups West ham trotted out in those games. Our best 11 could very well get a result against them.

This was West Ham's line up when they got knock out. One youth player and one punt from South America. The rest are full internationals.

Randolph
Byram

Reid

Ogbonna
Burke
Nordtveit

Töre
Obiang
Kouyaté
Antonio
Calleri

[Initial B]

FiveThirtyEight just updated their Global soccer ranking. TFC is now 160th, just ahead of Maccabi Tel Aviv and just behind Atletico-PR.

[jabbronies]

158 according to FiveThirtyEight - closer to 200th than 100th as I said earlier.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

I'm ok with this ranking - it puts us closer to the top spot of a 2nd division league in most top countries and mid-lower spot in 1rst division clubs of some other countries.

Funny but the next best MLS clubs are:

ReD Bulls at 301
Seattle at 304
NYCFC at 314

MOntreal is 398

[jabbronies]

However, fotball databse has us at 433
http://footballdatabase.com/clubs-ranking/toronto-fc

[Initial B]

^ Not sure I can take that seriously. They have TFC ranked 21 in North America?!? They should be Top 5 at least. I don't think they count MLS as being very competitive. Maybe they need to revise their coefficients since it's now 2017 instead of 2007?

[Defoe]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

moved up up last week to 163rd

Now they are up to 144.

They passed Cruz Azul, Club America and a few EPL teams.

Funny thing to point out, Altidore's old team Sunderland is ranked 237

[Initial B]

I usually wait until Monday once all the games from the weekend are in the books because they're now 143. Better than Malmo but worse than AZ Alkmaar.

[jloome]

Now they are up to 144.

They passed Cruz Azul, Club America and a few EPL teams.

Funny thing to point out, Altidore's old team Sunderland is ranked 237

The bottom teams in the Prem are nothing special now. We'd compete.