Match Day 22 - NYCFC @ Toronto FC Sunday July 30th 2pm - Pigeon Hunting

[OgtheDim]

http://i.imgur.com/zqfI3xp.jpg

Some great photography from this site http://www.chrisjimenez.net/


********

Have At It People

[ensco]

We have the best team.

We are in first place, and it's about getting the right work in, staying sharp, but not getting too high or too low.

This is a pretty meaningless game, and so is most every other game from here on in. I don't really care whether we are 1st of 4th in the east. It truly doesn't matter.

Seems that most of the comments in the last couple of game threads are agitated. I guess people are all excited about Supporters Shield, which I am not. I don't want to burn out chasing a meaningless trophy. I am also extremely bored with picking on reserves, which has become the house sport here.

A great opportunity to kick back and enjoy our elite team, who will get their fair share down the stretch.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We have the best team.

We are in first place, and it's about getting the right work in, staying sharp, but not getting too high or too low.

This is a pretty meaningless game, and so is most every other game from here on in. I don't really care whether we are 1st of 4th in the east. It truly doesn't matter.

Seems that most of the comments in the last couple of game threads are agitated. I guess people are all excited about Supporters Shield, which I am not. I don't want to burn out chasing a meaningless trophy. I am also extremely bored with picking on reserves, which has become the house sport here.

A great opportunity to kick back and enjoy our elite team, who will get their fair share down the stretch.

That's cool. Enjoy.

I don't need the league to tell me which I deem the best trophy in it to win. Haven't since we arrived in the league. Last year doesn't change that.

There's room for everybody.

This is a pretty exciting time for those keeping up with the race.

[Fort York Redcoat]

http://i.imgur.com/zqfI3xp.jpg

Some great photography from this site http://www.chrisjimenez.net/


********

Have At It People

Hawk v Pigeon. Bitchy about to take it to the Farm Team. Well played.

[ensco]

There's room for everybody.



Sure. I have always believed that.

My issue is with the negativity that seems to be going with this "chase". Did Cooper make a bad pass? Awful. Did Spencer miss an open net? yes.

This ragtag bunch got more than decent results the last six weeks, inclusing a stretch where we had 6 games in 12 days, or whatever that was.

How much did I see people celebrating the amazing sequence leading up to Morgan's goal? Not much.

I am probably going to have to stop coming into the game threads during and after, for a while anyway.

Anyway, to each his own, as you say.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sure. I have always believed that.

My issue is with the negativity that seems to be going with this "chase". Did Cooper make a bad pass? Awful. Did Spencer miss an open net? yes.

This ragtag bunch got more than decent results the last six weeks, inclusing a stretch where we had 6 games in 12 days, or whatever that was.

How much did I see people celebrating the amazing sequence leading up to Morgan's goal? Not much.

I am probably going to have to stop coming into the game threads during and after, for a while anyway.

Anyway, to each his own, as you say.

You're awesome, ensco.

I agree but those dozen or so negative people aren't all concerned with the race. They are knee jerking with no perspective to the past.

[BelfastBoy]

Vanney should rest everyone. Play the youth/reserves lads from now until October lol.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Vanney should rest everyone. Play the youth/reserves lads from now until October lol.

Well I mean 1 or 2 more wins and we should be comfortable point's wise to get into the playoffs.

I'm with FYR on this one though. I get what ensco is saying about burnout before playoffs, and I know the league isn't the same now as it was then, but damn it why can't we do a 2011 Galaxy? Is it greedy? Sure. But I feel like this team has the talent to do some things we haven't seen in this league in a while.

[fergiejr]

We have the best team.

We are in first place, and it's about getting the right work in, staying sharp, but not getting too high or too low.

This is a pretty meaningless game, and so is most every other game from here on in. I don't really care whether we are 1st of 4th in the east. It truly doesn't matter.

First or Second for me please. I don't want to be playing a one off playoff game.

But, then again, we retain our form and stay sharp by playing a mid-week one-off playoff game.

That being said, I really just enjoy beating NYCFC.

[Areathrasher]

Pfft to your Supporters Shield and MLS Cup, some of us are just sitting around waiting patiently for the CCL to begin http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[Canary10]

The biggest concern to me is not bench players, it's still Giovinco. He still doesn't look like the Giovinco of the past two years, as much as we were hoping that brace a few games ago was going to ignite him. He was pretty much invisible Saturday. That first touch where he's gone before the defender even knows what happened has deserted him. Luckily we have other players stepping in and making up his goals but we'd be basically unplayable if he was his old self. I really want to see him rip through NYCFC like he did a few times last year.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

I really want to see him rip through NYCFC like he did a few times last year.

The last time we played a game like the one vs Colorado where everyone seemed to just be phoning it in (1st leg vs Ottawa) the team came back with a 5-0 win against Columbus. I'm hoping for a similar sort of response on Sunday.

[Derko]

The biggest concern to me is not bench players, it's still Giovinco. He still doesn't look like the Giovinco of the past two years, as much as we were hoping that brace a few games ago was going to ignite him. He was pretty much invisible Saturday. That first touch where he's gone before the defender even knows what happened has deserted him. Luckily we have other players stepping in and making up his goals but we'd be basically unplayable if he was his old self. I really want to see him rip through NYCFC like he did a few times last year.

Giovinco looked a bit disinterested and was holding his side a bit in the first half, still not 100%? Didn't like being the lone striker?

[ensco]

Pfft to your Supporters Shield and MLS Cup, some of us are just sitting around waiting patiently for the CCL to begin http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

I put the Plata to Silva highlight up in the other thread, just for you!

[OgtheDim]

Giovinco looked a bit disinterested and was holding his side a bit in the first half, still not 100%? Didn't like being the lone striker?

He didn't look fit at the begining of the game, to be honest. Went out there to take the kickoff and was streching and running. I think it might have affected his decisin making. Hopefully a full week without a game and he's better.

[pdubs]

Sure. I have always believed that.

My issue is with the negativity that seems to be going with this "chase". Did Cooper make a bad pass? Awful. Did Spencer miss an open net? yes.

This ragtag bunch got more than decent results the last six weeks, inclusing a stretch where we had 6 games in 12 days, or whatever that was.

How much did I see people celebrating the amazing sequence leading up to Morgan's goal? Not much.

I am probably going to have to stop coming into the game threads during and after, for a while anyway.

Anyway, to each his own, as you say.

+1

For me its all about MLS Cup and our eventual CCL run. Supporters shield and such whatever. This team has fought through so many injuries, call ups and a jam packed schedule to be top of the league. Vanney and Bez are legit and rarely have our scouting let us down. Big crowds at BMO. I couldn't be happier with this season so far.

On Giovinco... his numbers are still impressive tho the bar for him is and should be MVP. Without a MVP Giovinco we are still top of the league. Hopefully he can finish the season of strong and be ready for our playoff push. If he needs more rest then rest him. Supporters shield is nice but MLS Cup is sweeter.

[Section_105]

We won the trillium cup. the rest is bloody gravy. :drinking:

[OgtheDim]

We won the trillium cup. the rest is bloody gravy. :drinking:

That Voyageurs was the best damn gravy we've had in a long time. Wouldn't mind getting a couple more portions like that.


******

To the game - a test. They will be coming for us with all they got. I think we got more. Hoping everybody in the stands brings it too because a Sunday afternoon game is a rarity around here.

[Richard]

I'm not going to dismiss the value of wining the Supporters shield entirely as it does take a very good team and depth to win it. However, its significance is made entirely meaningless with an unbalanced schedule and the erratic nature of MLS game scheduling.

Maybe winning it once would nice, just so we could say that we collected one of the trophies available.

I would still rank the CCL trophy as first priority to win and then the MLS playoffs.

[Eastend]

1st place = home field throughout, no? I'll take that, another cup final at home.

[Redcoe15]

If our side wins the Shield, the road to the MLS Cup goes through BMO Field.

Any team in Major League Soccer think they can stop a deep, healthy, and highly motivated Toronto FC in the Fortress come November and into December?

I don't think so.

[backbeat]

the Supporters Shield is important to me because I want to sit in BMO field, -6 degrees c, and watch live as TFC lifts the MLS cup - pure bliss

but CCL would be ultra-bliss...

[Blindside16]

I would like to win the Shield just to keep the possibility of being the first team complete the treble alive, but that in my opinion is not the main goal. What I want is to be the last team standing come mid December. I'd love nothing more than to do it again at BMO. I think with our depth and Vanneys ability to meld line ups and manage games, player burnt can be avoided. We have a team here that is very very good and the time to capitalize is now.

[Derko]

Good arguments to the 'Pro' Supporter's Shield Camp, more so than the 'Anti' Supporter's Shield Camp

Thrash NYFC on Sunday

I also want TFC to win the Shield in able to have Home field during playoffs

[TheGoodson]

I see everyone's point... I think that Vanney should rotate the players to keep everyone sharp and trying make sure that the top guys ie Seba, Altidore, Vasquez and Bradley are healthy and firing on all cylinders come playoff time and hopefully have home field advantage throughout the playoffs

That being said, I hope TFC has a few statement games against teams right behind us..

How nice is this that we are discussing the validity of chasing the supporters shield

[Eastend]

Good arguments to the 'Pro' Supporter's Shield Camp, more so than the 'Anti' Supporter's Shield Camp

Thrash NYFC on Sunday

I also want TFC to win the Shield in able to have Home field during playoffs


Why would any supporter not want their club to win everything? I don't get it. These are pros, players and coaches, I sort of understand the burnout concern but this is what they get paid to do.

[OgtheDim]

I also think I've heard a couple of times that this squad expects that whichever TFC team is out there that they will to win... every single game. The coachng staff may decide to rest people in certain situations where the next game is more of a priority but whichever squad goes out there, they expect to win.

Very different mentality then what we have seen here before.

[Section_105]

I also think I've heard a couple of times that this squad expects that whichever TFC team is out there that they will to win... every single game. The coachng staff may decide to rest people in certain situations where the next game is more of a priority but whichever squad goes out there, they expect to win.

Very different mentality then what we have seen here before.

This. it's refreshing that we can bitch and moan about ties with depleted squads instead of abject losses with full first team.

And we can haz all the points and silver.

[ensco]

I also think I've heard a couple of times that this squad expects that whichever TFC team is out there that they will to win... every single game. The coachng staff may decide to rest people in certain situations where the next game is more of a priority but whichever squad goes out there, they expect to win.

Very different mentality then what we have seen here before.

This I agree with.

I just don't agree with carping at or getting upset with supporting cast members who are in aggregate doing a great job, if we don't win.

Sometimes we don't win, you know.

This week everyone is on Cooper, and I agree that he has not looked good. But he has shown is that he has greatness in him, we know that, this isn't some random guy.

Let's support the guy.

[Yohan]

This I agree with.

I just don't agree with carping at or getting upset with supporting cast members who are in aggregate doing a great job, if we don't win.

Sometimes we don't win, you know.

This week everyone is on Cooper, and I agree that he has not looked good. But he has shown is that he has greatness in him, we know that, this isn't some random guy.

Let's support the guy.
It's Toronto. There is a requirement for a scapegoat in a team. lol

[shwade]

This I agree with.

I just don't agree with carping at or getting upset with supporting cast members who are in aggregate doing a great job, if we don't win.

Sometimes we don't win, you know.

This week everyone is on Cooper, and I agree that he has not looked good. But he has shown is that he has greatness in him, we know that, this isn't some random guy.

Let's support the guy.

Cooper went from starter to bench warmer... there's merit in discussing his decrease in form, geez.

[ensco]

Cooper went from starter to bench warmer... there's merit in discussing his decrease in form, geez.

I don't see discussion.

Discussion would include things like what formations/situations he does best in, impact of Vasquez on him, the fact that is is thousands of miles from home and has a new baby.

My own view is that he is maybe a better starter than a sub, and he should be allowed to work through it, the guy can make plays.

[Initial B]

I'm okay with Cooper. He fits with the team and that's the main thing. I don't hear about any cliques or locker-room dissension. They're all working towards the same goal.

I just look back to 2007 to 2013 and think, yeah, I can live with the way things are now.

[Yohan]

Frustrating thing about Cooper is that he's a one trick pony with a lack of footy IQ. Kinda reminds me of Alen Stevanovic when he had few games for TFC.

[RealG-TFC]

But it was also him that opened the scoring for us on that night in November. His form has been off I admit, but with the Gold Cup over and the end of the season I think he will pick it up.

As nice as some of the other guys are playing I think we haven't reached our full potential, and perhaps its by design so to start peaking for the playoffs.

[UltraFootyKWC]

1st place = home field throughout, no? I'll take that, another cup final at home.

I agree with Eastend. 1st place will guarantee us home field advantage throughout the playoffs and another cup final at BMO should we get that far.

With the playoff format the way it is, it's all about hitting form at the right time. I don't feel we should be letting off the gas to just coast in to the playoffs. We need to keep up the momentum so we are hitting top form down the stretch and in to the playoffs.

[ensco]

Frustrating thing about Cooper is that he's a one trick pony with a lack of footy IQ. Kinda reminds me of Alen Stevanovic when he had few games for TFC.

This year. But last year, he was running at guys and beating them, and winning 50/50 balls, all the time.

[Yohan]

This year. But last year, he was running at guys and beating them, and winning 50/50 balls, all the time.

So he got figured out by MLS defenders as one trick pony and haven't adjusted.

[molenshtain]

So he got figured out by MLS defenders as one trick pony and haven't adjusted.

Or his form dipped. it happens to some guys.

[TFC Tifoso]

I don't see discussion.

Discussion would include things like what formations/situations he does best in, impact of Vasquez on him, the fact that is is thousands of miles from home and has a new baby.

My own view is that he is maybe a better starter than a sub, and he should be allowed to work through it, the guy can make plays.

so then who sits out of the Starting XI then? Delgado? No, his form has merited the starts he's getting. And Vasquez or Bradley aren't in the conversation to sit....there's no discussion going on about it because imo there's none to be had....our Starting XI, barring injury/suspension/inavailablity is pretty much set, save maybe for some rotation at wingback and defense, neither of which involves Cooper.

[backbeat]

So he got figured out by MLS defenders as one trick pony and haven't adjusted.

he certainly gave away the ball that lead to their goal and you could tell he was distraught by it and it is frustrating; but he also spearheaded the subsequent drive that almost lead to us regaining the lead. He works hard, is technically very strong and tends to move the ball forward.

he's one of those players that i fear if we traded will come back to haunt you.

Still with the salary he's on he'll have to show it sooner rather than later

[ensco]

so then who sits out of the Starting XI then? Delgado? No, his form has merited the starts he's getting. And Vasquez or Bradley aren't in the conversation to sit....there's no discussion going on about it because imo there's none to be had....our Starting XI, barring injury/suspension/inavailablity is pretty much set, save maybe for some rotation at wingback and defense, neither of which involves Cooper.

I would sit Delgado for Cooper for the next 3-5 games. Cooper, if he's going, does a lot more to unlock Gio.

We don't need to settle on the "playoff" XI until September.

[Graeme]

so then who sits out of the Starting XI then? Delgado? No, his form has merited the starts he's getting.

While I agree that Delgado should still be getting starts, I feel he was partially responsible for two recent goals in which he didn't stay on his feet and/or blocked our clearances. Anyone see this?

[michaeltfc91]

While I agree that Delgado should still be getting starts, I feel he was partially responsible for two recent goals in which he didn't stay on his feet and/or blocked our clearances. Anyone see this?

^ yes, my midfield 3 is Bradley, Vasquez, Osorio. It's nice that our subs are Cheyrou, Delgado, Chapman and Cooper (stacked midfield)

[Derko]

TFC have to drive forward to the opposing teams net, we did it 2 or 3 times in the last game, scored a goal and created good chances. And stop ALWAYS looking for Giovinco, I know he can usually finish, but TFC waste so many opportunities just looking to pass off to Giovinco, even when he is well covered or not in a position to make something of the pass. I want to see Cooper in and be driving forward.

[OgtheDim]

Driving the ball wasn't the issue against Colorado. It was quicker ball movement. That's our game.

Of Osorio, Delgado & Cooper, Delgado is the quicker of those three. He starts until one of the other 2 show they can play more 2 or less touch football.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't see discussion.

Discussion would include things like what formations/situations he does best in, impact of Vasquez on him, the fact that is is thousands of miles from home and has a new baby.

My own view is that he is maybe a better starter than a sub, and he should be allowed to work through it, the guy can make plays.

And just got back from the Gold Cup, no? I'm pretty sure I saw bits of Panama where he was running his socks off.

[ensco]

This discussion makes we wonder whether we will be trading a midfielder for futures.

[TFC Tifoso]

I would sit Delgado for Cooper for the next 3-5 games. Cooper, if he's going, does a lot more to unlock Gio.

We don't need to settle on the "playoff" XI until September.

fair enough, but we have Vasquez to unlock the opponents.

imo, Delgado offers more defensively, which is needed more next to Vasquez in the midfield....having Cooper in there would make the CM unbalanced defensively, leaving only Bradley to have any cover for the back 3.

[OgtheDim]

This discussion makes we wonder whether we will be trading a midfielder for futures.

Cheyrou is out a minimum of 8 weeks - nobody is going anywhere.

[reggie]

you could still trade the 1st rd pick for a mid or bring some one in,maybe hasler can play their if need to.

[ag futbol]

This year. But last year, he was running at guys and beating them, and winning 50/50 balls, all the time.
Definitely find he's less active defensively this year. I agree theres probably other stuff distracting him right now.

Re: last game. It should be noted he tried to do the right thing. This wasn't him holding onto the ball and getting dispossessed, he passed right into the defender and simply didn't execute at a time when making the right play was crucial. On occasion guys will have bad luck and shit happens.

We need him to play well to be at our best.

[Hamilton_Red]

He displaced Johnson...I'd much rather Will was still here. Anyone know the salary difference between them? Seems like the one mistake that Vanney/Bez have made in the last couple of years.

Answered my own question WiJo - $400k vs Cooper $200k

[Derko]

He displaced Johnson...I'd much rather Will was still here. Anyone know the salary difference between them? Seems like the one mistake that Vanney/Bez have made in the last couple of years.

Answered my own question WiJo - $400k vs Cooper $200k

I think Johnson left with some sour grapes, not being played as much and in the final or something like that, no?

[Areathrasher]

This discussion makes we wonder whether we will be trading a midfielder for futures.

Wouldn't surprise me to see LAFC sign Marky Delgado for a boatload of allocation in the offseason....

[fergiejr]

Wouldn't surprise me to see LAFC sign Marky Delgado for a boatload of allocation in the offseason....

We could just lose him in the expansion draft as well...

[ensco]

I don't think it was a simple Cooper for Johnson thing. $200K is the price of eggs for a utility MF, and if we weren't paying it to Cooper, we'd be paying it to someone else.

Although we couldn't see it at the time, Vasquez was obviously the bigger reason we had to move a $400K midfielder.

[Derko]

I don't think it was a simple Cooper for Johnson thing. $200K is the price of eggs for a utility MF, and if we weren't paying it to Cooper, we'd be paying it to someone else.

Although we couldn't see it at the time, Vasquez was obviously the bigger reason we had to move a $400K midfielder.

True

[shwade]

I think Johnson left with some sour grapes, not being played as much and in the final or something like that, no?

Yes, he was salty as hell in his exit interviews.

[TFC Tifoso]

Wouldn't surprise me to see LAFC sign Marky Delgado for a boatload of allocation in the offseason....


We could just lose him in the expansion draft as well...

Don't understand why we would do either...Delgado is decent salary wise, young, and trending upward.....since we're on the discussion of Delgado vs. Cooper, my own opinion is to rather leave a guy like Cooper unprotected (if it has to be one or the other). There's also the added advantage of not loosing Marky to his NT.

[Areathrasher]

Don't understand why we would do either...Delgado is decent salary wise, young, and trending upward.....since we're on the discussion of Delgado vs. Cooper, my own opinion is to rather leave a guy like Cooper unprotected (if it has to be one or the other). There's also the added advantage of not loosing Marky to his NT.

Delgado is ex Chivas and an Angeleno. LAFC are 100% (in my mind) gonna make a play for him in the offseason and it's going to be the type of offer that makes Bez think long and hard about doing it.

[Yohan]

Delgado is ex Chivas and an Angeleno. LAFC are 100% (in my mind) gonna make a play for him in the offseason and it's going to be the type of offer that makes Bez think long and hard about doing it.

If LAFC or whoever offers something like 500k in allocation money, take it and run like hell. As good as Delgado has been, he's not untouchable. Allocation money will be needed to buy down the budget to get other players for CCL run.

[TFC Tifoso]

Delgado is ex Chivas and an Angeleno. LAFC are 100% (in my mind) gonna make a play for him in the offseason and it's going to be the type of offer that makes Bez think long and hard about doing it.

Yeah I get that.....I guess if they come with a great offer, Bez would have to make a decision.

On the other hand, I'm just saying that even with the ties to the area, and while a very steady player, I can't see LAFC going too crazy to get him....to me he's the type of player that if he's on your team then great, but may not be worth giving up too much to get him.

Besides, I have a feeling that if LAFC has to give up assets (player, allocation, etc.) they might be wanting a player with a higher profile in return. Delgado would be the perfect player for them to pick up if unprotected. Hopefully TFC won't do that when the time comes.

[OgtheDim]

Soooo...the game...

Looks like maybe Mavinga escaped a Disco suspension. They are going to be missing Herrara from a red card. Weaker midfield for them.

[fergiejr]

Looks like maybe Mavinga escaped a Disco suspension.

This is surprising. I wonder if they'll come back with more suspensions later in the week. I believe they have before, but that's usually when someone files a challenge or something.

[Graeme]

So who starts?

I think:

----------------------------Bono--------------------------
-----Hagglund----Moor------Mavinga----------
--???------------------Bradley----------Morrow--
----------Delgado-----------Vasquez--------------
-------Giovinco-----------------Altidore------------

With Osorio, Edwards and Chapman off the bench. Not sure who takes Beitashour's spot.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

The last time we played a game like the one vs Colorado where everyone seemed to just be phoning it in (1st leg vs Ottawa) the team came back with a 5-0 win against Columbus. I'm hoping for a similar sort of response on Sunday.

Same here!
The Reds never had two shit performances one after another this year.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I'm not going to dismiss the value of wining the Supporters shield entirely as it does take a very good team and depth to win it. However, its significance is made entirely meaningless with an unbalanced schedule and the erratic nature of MLS game scheduling.

Maybe winning it once would nice, just so we could say that we collected one of the trophies available.

I would still rank the CCL trophy as first priority to win and then the MLS playoffs.

I'm ranking also the CCL tropy as first priority, but I can't see happening it in the next 5 years, unless the Reds will be extremely lucky.
The first 4-5 Mexican teams are still a class above the best 2-3 MLS teams.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Frustrating thing about Cooper is that he's a one trick pony with a lack of footy IQ. Kinda reminds me of Alen Stevanovic when he had few games for TFC.

This!
Cooper has some great native technical ability with the ball, and physically good enough build.
But he's lacking big time in the head department... With a vision like for example the General has, he would be a well known, world class player.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

So who starts?

I think:

----------------------------Bono--------------------------
-----Hagglund----Moor------Mavinga----------
--???------------------Bradley----------Morrow--
----------Delgado-----------Vasquez--------------
-------Giovinco-----------------Altidore------------

With Osorio, Edwards and Chapman off the bench. Not sure who takes Beitashour's spot.

Probably Altidore just maximum 30 minutes in the second half IMHO.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

My short take on this game, done as a sports bettor (I am a sports bettor...):

The Reds need to score at least 2 goals to be 90% sure they will get 1 point out of this game.
The Reds need to score at least 3 goals to be 90% sure they will win.

I would bet my life saving on New York scoring at least 1 goal.
I would bet my car on Villa scoring at least 1 goal.

Go TFC! :scarf:
I will be happy if I was wrong on the last 2 thoughts. :)

[Blindside16]

I think Jozy plays a full 90 here. With the exception of the ASG on Wednesday which I can'r see him playing more than 30 minutes, he will have a full week to recover from Sunday. This is a glorious chance to take a strangle hold on the conference. I would be very surprised if the team came out anything but guns blazing. Chicago is away against SKC. If everything goes well we can have some breathing room.

[pdubs]

Hopefully we can see Hasler get some minutes. Want to see what he has to offer.

[Cas87]

Hopefully we can see Hasler get some minutes. Want to see what he has to offer.

Have a feeling he may feature either in front of Edwards (who comes in around 60 or so, depending on how his fitness is and how the game is going), or to spell Edwards if he tires or is now 'on' on Sunday.

[OgtheDim]

Hasler is a RB/RWB. Edwards is left.

[Cas87]

^^
I always get turned around talking about out wing-backs.

[OgtheDim]

Now that I'm thinking about though....you might be right that this is how it works out.

Edwards has played on the right this year.

[Captain]

Was it RB or LB that Mavinga has played a lot of for past teams? I believe he prefers to only play CB. We have several option on the left. Morrow can play RB. I think I would prefer him there then any of our other options.

[OgtheDim]

GAME DAY :scarf:

Going to be a warm won.


Bring your sunscreen lads an lasses.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

But why is this game at freaking 2 PM?

Wouldn't be better for everybody to begin at 5:30 for example?
Those coming from a radius of 140 km would be still able to get home easily by 11 PM after the game...

I don't like the fact that the heat will influence the quality of game.

[Eastend]

But why is this game at freaking 2 PM?

Wouldn't be better for everybody to begin at 5:30 for example?
Those coming from a radius of 140 km would be still able to get home easily by 11 PM after the game...

I don't like the fact that the heat will influence the quality of game.

Agree, not a fan of the 2pm start on a Sunday for a few reasons.

[pdubs]

Was it RB or LB that Mavinga has played a lot of for past teams? I believe he prefers to only play CB. We have several option on the left. Morrow can play RB. I think I would prefer him there then any of our other options.

From a walkingthered article https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2017/6/22/15854904/chris-mavinga-explains-why-joined-toronto-fc-tfc-mls-transfers

"On Thursday, he explained that his decision to come to MLS was motivated by a desire to play in the central role he has occupied with the Reds. In Europe, Mavinga had primarily played as a left-back over the past few seasons despite a glittering youth career with Paris Saint-Germain, Liverpool and France in the centre of defence."

Very interesting read actually. Talks about TFC "freeing" him to play his natural position which is CB. Wants nothing to do with being a LB.

[Cas87]

But why is this game at freaking 2 PM?

Wouldn't be better for everybody to begin at 5:30 for example?
Those coming from a radius of 140 km would be still able to get home easily by 11 PM after the game...

I don't like the fact that the heat will influence the quality of game.


Agree, not a fan of the 2pm start on a Sunday for a few reasons.


got to love the almighty ESPN *facepalm*

[ronzilla]

3 points, no excuses.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/891704959305216002

[ag futbol]

Still no sign of our new RB? That's frustrating.

[Berns]

any good streams?

[tfcfans]

Yay Gio!

[ag futbol]

Need to sub out Delgado at this point. Looks gassed.

[pdubs]

Delgado can't kick out like that after a challenge. So so so stupid. Lucky he didn't make contact.

[tfcfans]

Gio might be good at this soccer thing.....😄

[daner90]

So....fucking....good!!

[pdubs]

Hope morrow is ok. Looks like Mavinga is staying in.

[pdubs]

Edwards! Wow

[jloome]

Edwards! Wow

None of us would have dared say it a few months ago but I will now and I'm sure some will agree: Chris Mavinga, defensive signing of the season in MLS.

[pdubs]

Yep. This coaching staff has consistently scouted amazingly well.

Skying the PK is exactly what NYCFC deserve. Go back to your baseball diamond lol

[jloome]

That was a comprehensive shit kicking. If that doesn't make a statement in this league, nothing will.

The old days seem like an uncomfortable, hazy memory right now.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

THIS

WAS

A

FUCKING

EPIC

STATEMENT

GAME

FROM

TFC

!


:scarf:

[Redcoe15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpgnYhzdkI

g:D

[General Woolfe]

Superb performance from TFC throughout the side. Very happy today!!!

Onward and upwards :scarf:

[whositwhatnow]

didn't see that coming, man 4 goals...

[notthesun]

Full value win, we look damn near unbeatable at home with a full strength squad. Mavinga has locked down a starting role now I think and Bradley was excellent again. Awesome for Edwards to get his first too.

Hasler might get into the lineup now with Alseth's injury.

Loved that Giovinco gave Altidore the penalty and then they celebrated together. Far cry from the days of Defoe and Gilberto fighting over a free kick...

[ag futbol]

None of us would have dared say it a few months ago but I will now and I'm sure some will agree: Chris Mavinga, defensive signing of the season in MLS.
I don't know who else is on the list but I struggle to think of another "left back" (or rather left side defender) that has such an impact. He has bailed out the team on more than a few occasions.

[Canary10]

That was just fucking awesome.

[Detroit_TFC]

Was able to watch 2nd half on ESPN while down in Nashville. That was about was good a half from TFC I've seen. Guy from north London next to me at the bar said, "hey wasn't that 1-0 a few minutes ago..."

[Eastend]

But why is this game at freaking 2 PM?

Wouldn't be better for everybody to begin at 5:30 for example?
Those coming from a radius of 140 km would be still able to get home easily by 11 PM after the game...

I don't like the fact that the heat will influence the quality of game.


Agree, not a fan of the 2pm start on a Sunday for a few reasons.


got to love the almighty ESPN *facepalm*

I LOVE 2pm starts. :) (not really)

[OgtheDim]

Nice to see them get a few and put a team to the sword.

That free kick by Seba was amazing.

[C.Ronaldo]

Edwards needs to play as often as possible. His movement drives defenders mad

[Scotty74]

Awesome performance today!

[Richard]

Seba is free kick scoring machine. Is he right now one of the best in the world at scoring off of free kicks?

[Thomas]

Absolutely. Very solid.


None of us would have dared say it a few months ago but I will now and I'm sure some will agree: Chris Mavinga, defensive signing of the season in MLS.

[C.Ronaldo]

Anyone else feel weird playing against Pirlo. On both giovinco goals he was little more than a pylon, on the free kick he seemed to use his teammate as a shield

[Auzzy]

That defensive tackle by Mavinga -- unbelievable.

What a game -- amazing. A game where we had multiple injuries and forced subs, not allowing for the regular subs you would want in that midday heat. A game where a key player like Vasquez was off a bit, but everyone stepped up & put the game away.

[ensco]

We won 4-0 for one reason only -Pirlo.

I almost couldn't watch because Pirlo was so atrocious. He was personally responsible for most of the goals, and I have a feeling he may never see minutes in a meaningful role again.

Comprehensive beating.... but I hope this doesn't lead to overconfidence later on. That is a dangerous team that had multiple good chances before it got out of hand.

[ronzilla]

Mediocre performance over shadowed by the Giovinco show. NYC was absolutely rubbish and brought nothing.

[molenshtain]

yeah I was thinking last night that we didn't even look our best last night. could have been because we were taking it easy after an early lead in that heat, but we definitely have another gear or two that we could get to.

it's a really exciting prospect that we can beat contenders without breaking much of a sweat.

[Canary10]

Mediocre performance over shadowed by the Giovinco show. NYC was absolutely rubbish and brought nothing.Well whatever it was, I'll take more of it.

[Prof]

We won 4-0 for one reason only -Pirlo.

I almost couldn't watch because Pirlo was so atrocious. He was personally responsible for most of the goals, and I have a feeling he may never see minutes in a meaningful role again.

Comprehensive beating.... but I hope this doesn't lead to overconfidence later on. That is a dangerous team that had multiple good chances before it got out of hand.

I agree 100% with this. As Giovinco was lining up to take the free kick I said to my son he is going to shoot over Pirlo's head. If you watch the replay Pirlo actually moves over to hide beside the defender beside him.

[OgtheDim]

Watched that wall sequence a couple of times - the ball goes over the #13's head.

BTW, there was a nasty elbow on Giovinco by Callens that led to some of the agro later in the game.

https://twitter.com/24thminute/status/891755720483450881

[ManUtd4ever]

Statement win. With a reasonably healthy squad, we just dummied them all over the pitch.

[Section_105]

I agree 100% with this. As Giovinco was lining up to take the free kick I said to my son he is going to shoot over Pirlo's head. If you watch the replay Pirlo actually moves over to hide beside the defender beside him.

I like what Pirlo was and think he's been awful in some instances here in MLS but he made some great interceptions yesterday and in this case wasn't hiding. it went over the guy he was behind....that he was lifting.... He knew where the flight of the ball would be and tried to lift the man.....I think. If so that was fucking brilliant. if not he was a tosser for hiding but I'm pretty sure I"m right.

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2017/07/30/sebastian-giovinco-second-goal-july-30-2017?autoplay=true

[ronzilla]

^ Yeah you're right..good eye..Pirlo was behind lifting the player. Have never seen that before in a wall.

[molenshtain]

Pirlo was, for all intents and purposes, by far the worst player on the field yesterday. Incredible to watch a guy that talented literally lose the ability to run at anything faster than a snail's pace.

It'll be very interesting to see that team next year with two new elite DP signings.

[Yohan]

NYCFC tried to copy what Rapids did to get a point, to bunker and counter. Except NYCFC is a possession based team and they don't have speed for effective counters. Pirlo was a liability in the centre of the midfield and no Herrera was a bonus for TFC. And having Altidore meant Giovinco wasn't isolated and NYCFC couldn't ignore the wingbacks so there was more space for TFC on attack. I guess the lesson here is, stick to your team's strength.

It's good to see Giovinco was able to take over the game, even if TFC didn't have the best game overall.

[shwade]

I like what Pirlo was and think he's been awful in some instances here in MLS but he made some great interceptions yesterday and in this case wasn't hiding. it went over the guy he was behind....that he was lifting.... He knew where the flight of the ball would be and tried to lift the man.....I think. If so that was fucking brilliant. if not he was a tosser for hiding but I'm pretty sure I"m right.

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2017/07/30/sebastian-giovinco-second-goal-july-30-2017?autoplay=true

Pirlo's hand on that guys back is barely lifting the guy. Also chalking up our win to Pirlo's mediocrity is pretty unfaor to our squad. NYC came out hard the first 15 minutes and we weren't at our best all game yet we still managed to dismantle them..that's a comprehensive victory.

[samuraizero]

Apologies if this has been posted already. I havent read through the thread since the game.
Interview with Vieira after the match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzMsTp9y63Y

There's been a theme of blaming the refs for losses (and in fairness, the refs can be pretty bad sometimes) but Vieira comes into this interview and basically says "We were outplayed, they have a great side, we need to improve"

Guy just got some respect from me.

[samuraizero]

I don't know who else is on the list but I struggle to think of another "left back" (or rather left side defender) that has such an impact. He has bailed out the team on more than a few occasions.


THE LEGS ON THAT GUY. Fast.

[Oldtimer]

Pirlo's hand on that guys back is barely lifting the guy. Also chalking up our win to Pirlo's mediocrity is pretty unfaor to our squad. NYC came out hard the first 15 minutes and we weren't at our best all game yet we still managed to dismantle them..that's a comprehensive victory.

Great teams make good teams look poor. We have a great team.

[Yohan]

THE LEGS ON THAT GUY. Fast.
That Mavinga tackle on Moralez saved the game. I'm very impressed by how quickly Mavinga improved since his initial debut. I think a bit of adjustment taking MLS more seriously was needed and Mavinga proved to be a key signing.

[Section_105]

Pirlo's hand on that guys back is barely lifting the guy. Also chalking up our win to Pirlo's mediocrity is pretty unfaor to our squad. NYC came out hard the first 15 minutes and we weren't at our best all game yet we still managed to dismantle them..that's a comprehensive victory.

nah man he grabs his shorts and lifts. would never have got him high enough to block that one though.

[OgtheDim]

Pirlo knew where Seba was going.

Just as Seba knew where Pirlo wanted to go and called Moor back to cover that post.

Years on the training ground together.

[paul-collins]

chalking up our win to Pirlo's mediocrity is pretty unfaor to our squad. NYC came out hard the first 15 minutes and we weren't at our best all game yet we still managed to dismantle them..that's a comprehensive victory.
It seemed more like 25 minutes that they were pressing hard... but once we stopped trying to force it up the left (to Vasquez and Morrow) and gave Edwards some opportunity, NYCFC had to spread out again and that's what created the space for Gio's first.

In the second half after the second goal we were content to let them possess and just kept them mostly outside.

[ag futbol]

I thought we played well but pirlo's lack of speed really lobsided the result. If you don't have mobility in the centre of a MLS midfield and some steel you are flat out dead.

We did an excellent job limiting Villa, quiet day for him.

[molenshtain]

We did an excellent job limiting Villa, quiet day for him.

Zavs had him in his pocket all game. It's crazy how much he's improved since two seasons ago. Not the most athletic CB but I'd put him and Moor up as our best CB's. He gets caught out of position only once every couple games. His performance during the final last year was one of the best single performances by any tfc player ever.

[Richard]

Who cares if Pirlo sucked. TFC exposed a weakness and capitalized. Thats what good teams do.

[samuraizero]

Who cares if Pirlo sucked. TFC exposed a weakness and capitalized. Thats what good teams do.

Agreed, but just for good measure, I'll say it again.. Pirlo was awful.

[Section_105]

Pirlo knew where Seba was going.

Just as Seba knew where Pirlo wanted to go and called Moor back to cover that post.

Years on the training ground together.

true. good players just know. Like when Nguyen went back to the post and headed off the line.

[ronzilla]

TFC won because Seba dominated the game and was on all 4 goals. Had very little to do with Pirlo, who wasn't as bad as everyone is making it seem.

[OgtheDim]

The focus will be on Seba. And for the first 30 minutes, NYC had the ball but had no penetration. Veirra said as much after the game. That's a team defence thing. And Villa was basically marked out of the game. I give a lot of credit to the back line, especially Edwards and Zaveleta who held Silva in check where he likes to operate.

[Highlander]

Gallery for this game now available on my site : http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/gallery/ 100+ images including all 4 goals even if the ones in the south end are somewhat obscured by the inebriatti flags !

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/nycfc-fp-2017.png

[OgtheDim]

There are games when xG doesn't tell you how things worked out.

The Mavinga tackle barely moved the xG. The second Seba goal didn't move it at all.

https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/892091743486738434

[molenshtain]

There are games when xG doesn't tell you how things worked out.

The Mavinga tackle barely moved the xG. The second Seba goal didn't move it at all.

https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/892091743486738434


mmm expected goals model doesn't always tell you the whole story, even with larger sample sizes. our xGD says we should be a middling playoff team, which is better than it was a couple of weeks ago when said we were a borderline playoff team.

still a useful tool in general though.

[C.Ronaldo]

I like what Pirlo was and think he's been awful in some instances here in MLS but he made some great interceptions yesterday and in this case wasn't hiding. it went over the guy he was behind....that he was lifting.... He knew where the flight of the ball would be and tried to lift the man.....I think. If so that was fucking brilliant. if not he was a tosser for hiding but I'm pretty sure I"m right.

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2017/07/30/sebastian-giovinco-second-goal-july-30-2017?autoplay=true

yah looking at it again, it looks like a lift.

his first half assed play on sebas first goal just left a bad taste.

[jabbronies]

Pirlo was hitting all kinds of passes in the first 10-15 minutes. Defensively he was suspect, but the whole of NYCFC were even more suspect. You can't expect 1 player to carry an entire team in that situation.

[Don Julio]

but once we stopped trying to force it up the left (to Vasquez and Morrow)...

I honestly was wondering if they just wanted to be in the shade..

[Section_105]

Pirlo was hitting all kinds of passes in the first 10-15 minutes. Defensively he was suspect, but the whole of NYCFC were even more suspect. You can't expect 1 player to carry an entire team in that situation.

I'm starting to seem like a Pirlo fanboy but I'm not. I was watching how they were trying to mark Seba out of the game. When the ball went to our right Pirlo tracked the ball and their #8 came in to shaddow Seba. When it went left #8 went with the ball and Pirlo immediately got into seba's personal space. On the first goal #8 didn't do his job and when Pirlo realized it (as the pass was coming in) he had no time to recover marking someone twice as fast as him from 10 yards out. They had a good plan but it fell apart on a few occasions. We know what that's like. Though Pirlo gets dangled on the move I would place blame on their other mid (#8, not sure what his name is).




I honestly was wondering if they just wanted to be in the shade..
heck yes. they were cramping and dropping out there. LOL

[Section_105]

Gallery for this game now available on my site : http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/gallery/ 100+ images including all 4 goals even if the ones in the south end are somewhat obscured by the inebriatti flags !



Pirlo caption - "doh. no Chiellini or Buffon back there....we're screwed."
http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/gallery/#foobox-1/28/36291554795_74cdde9a73_b.jpg

[jabbronies]

I'm starting to seem like a Pirlo fanboy but I'm not. I was watching how they were trying to mark Seba out of the game. When the ball went to our right Pirlo tracked the ball and their #8 came in to shaddow Seba. When it went left #8 went with the ball and Pirlo immediately got into seba's personal space. On the first goal #8 didn't do his job and when Pirlo realized it (as the pass was coming in) he had no time to recover marking someone twice as fast as him from 10 yards out. They had a good plan but it fell apart on a few occasions. We know what that's like. Though Pirlo gets dangled on the move I would place blame on their other mid (#8, not sure what his name is).


I was watching Pirlo a lot this match cos I figured it may be the last time I got to see him play - I'm no Pirlo fan, but I respect what he's done in the past and he still has those little bits of magic in him - reminds me of Frings last season with us - although I think Pirlo has more legs left than Torsten did.

For the first 10-15 minutes they looked like they had this game all planned out. I thought they would have had a couple guys work the midfield and then pass to Pirlo who would just serve it to the forwards - which he was doing - but then the other mids just disappeared. - This plan fizzled out quick and Pirlo was just in no mans land.

He tried to occupy Gio's space in the 2nd half - for large chunks of the half gio and Pirlo were occupying the same space, but Pirlo just ran out of gas

[molenshtain]

#8 was Ring. He had a great first half of the season but has been regressing a bit since then.

Their midfield pressing/rotation is completely thrown off when Pirlo plays instead of Herrera. Herrera covers more ground than pretty much everyone in the league which really helps NYCFC specifically because of their style. He would have, for instance, absolutely shut down the lane Seba had on his first goal. We're lucky he didn't play yesterday or it might have been a very different game. Having Pirlo in there instead of a classic destroyer like Herrera forces Ring and Moralez to do a lot more work covering lanes defensively, which in turn threw off their whole shape. We exploited it well, but that's not the NYCFC we're gonna see come the playoffs.

[Redcoe15]

Can we all just enjoy yesterday's impressive four-nill victory over a close rival that gave our side distance in the Supporter's Shield and NOT nit pick on any negatives some over observed? The self flagellation is just too much.

[paul-collins]

I honestly was wondering if they just wanted to be in the shade..
That shade was not really in evidence for much of the first half, really only became a useful amount in the second.

Although yeah that sun must've been pretty intense. I was comfortable up in lower 205, shade for the whole game. Love that roof!

[ronzilla]

Highlights in a can


https://j.gifs.com/8qp20W.gif




https://j.gifs.com/mwKZgn.gif




https://j.gifs.com/BgDBmo.gif




https://j.gifs.com/Y6jEmY.gif





https://j.gifs.com/g5AJOk.gif




https://j.gifs.com/RgZ6Vw.gif




https://j.gifs.com/98qrEz.gif




https://j.gifs.com/g5AJ9r.gif




https://j.gifs.com/wjXp6r.gif

[Gazza_55]

Very, very good performance yesterday. The back 3 were solid. Totally different club with Jozy and MB.

[Bobo]

Any injury updates?

[OgtheDim]

Any injury updates?

Trust in the Molinaro

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/892428858192015361

[JonO]

Anyone know where I can catch a replay of the game. From where I was sitting, it looked like there were two absolutely blown offside calls (one around 50 min and one around 60 min). Both were downfield from me, so I didn't have the best angle, but both looks really blatant. Just curious to see what they actually looked like...

[Lennon]

Watched this one from the middle of the 200 level and didn't think we played all that great.

This confirms what I saw. Thank god for Giovinco ..

https://i.gyazo.com/8f86dc0c03b5b1fa4e9bc5a3775e7810.png