Match Day 20 - TFC @ NYCFC Wed July 19 7:30pm - Somebody loses, and somebody wins

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZy3iF3z6Qs

Have at it People

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Will be an extremely difficult game because too many titular players we'll be missing for TFC.
(Those called to the Can and US national teams for the Gold cup, because yes, I believe Can will make it to the 2nd round.)

In these conditions I would be very happy if we can steal 1 point in NY City.

[General Woolfe]

My thoughts are in line with Yeti. I've a feeling USA might call up both Bradley and Altidore (certainly the former) for the knockout rounds of the Gold Cup and with Canada looking good so far (touch wood!) we could be quite short handed for this visit to the Bronx. You have to figure as well that Citylite will still be smarting from our last visit there and out for some revenge. With all this in mind I don't think I'd be too upset if we were to emerge with a point from this one, although with this current squad I wouldn't put it past them to take all three.

[Initial B]

If they only take Bradley, I think Cheyrou could slot into his spot for now. Really, what's so bad about the following lineup?
Bono
Zavaleta-Moor-Mavinga
Endoh/Cooper-Cheyrou-Vasquez-Delgado-Morgan/Alseth
Giovinco-Altidore/Hamilton

I don't think 3 points is out of the question, especially with them all rested.

[Detroit_TFC]

Bradley for sure but not sure about Altidore. Dom Dwyer seems to be filling that role well. The shocking performance by USMNT last night vs Martinique was largely to a lack of leadership in the midfield. Dead cinch Arena will want MB for the later stages.

[Section_105]

Park a 5-5 bus and lock down the point. unless they get frustrated and pull a red then sub in 3 strikers and make em pay. <yes, pipe dream I know>

[UpTheReds]

3-2 to Toronto.

[Red CB Toronto]

Bradley for sure but not sure about Altidore. Dom Dwyer seems to be filling that role well. The shocking performance by USMNT last night vs Martinique was largely to a lack of leadership in the midfield. Dead cinch Arena will want MB for the later stages.

Well with Jozy and Michael both already in US camp things just got whole lot tougher for the Reds.

[SoccMan2]

It's funny the US wasted no time in calling for reinforcements. while Canada has still not called in any reinforcements having qualified for the quarterfinals, no announcement of a Larin yet
or anyone else. The US which has had so much more success over the years wastes no time calling in reinforcement and Canada who has been pathetic for so many years is still waiting to call anyone in, lol!

[General Woolfe]

Well with Jozy and Michael both already in US camp things just got whole lot tougher for the Reds.
I saw Bradley in the stand there at the Nicaragua game in his US tracksuit so I take it he's a given, what makes you sure Jozy's been drafted in as well m8?

[SirBobSaget]

It's funny the US wasted no time in calling for reinforcements. while Canada has still not called in any reinforcements having qualified for the quarterfinals, no announcement of a Larin yet
or anyone else. The US which has had so much more success over the years wastes no time calling in reinforcement and Canada who has been pathetic for so many years is still waiting to call anyone in, lol!

Canada pretty much called in their available A squad. Only improvements would be Larin and Johnson. But is it fair to cut someone now for a slight improvement. US on the other hand held back their big MLS players. Sucks that for TFC this was 1 game for the group stage now they lose Bradley and Altidore for the next 2. Hopefully Arena is reasonable and releases Morrow.

[EL DUQUE'----']

Canada finally has a team. Cavallini will lead the charge with the right service. My opinion, it's from osorio... No hometown bias...but that's our builder besides arfield who is THE CAPTAIN... Any problems.. U talk to me.. We are so close to something, but still a couple of years away

[OgtheDim]

Canada pretty much called in their available A squad. Only improvements would be Larin and Johnson. But is it fair to cut someone now for a slight improvement. US on the other hand held back their big MLS players. Sucks that for TFC this was 1 game for the group stage now they lose Bradley and Altidore for the next 2. Hopefully Arena is reasonable and releases Morrow.

There are a number of Liga MX players who are likely to be released back to their teams. One of those is Villafana, who in theory is their starting LB. Morrow would then be staying.

Regardless, Morrow is not being released back to TFC in a trade for Bradley and Altidore.

[rydermike]

USA released their team for Knockout round. As expected, Bradley and Altidore called up and Morrow staying there for the second round as well

[Initial B]

It would be interesting to see if Arena throws all 3 TFC players into the staring lineup.

[OgtheDim]

Morrow likely on the bench now. Although if Arena chooses the 3-5-2 against Mexico again, Morrow is a good fit for that LWB.

[spe18]

It would be interesting to see if Arena throws all 3 TFC players into the staring lineup.

Does affiliation to a certain club team even have a factor on who is in the line up for a national team?

[Red CB Toronto]

Does affiliation to a certain club team even have a factor on who is in the line up for a national team?

Not at all, it's just seems that with Bruce Arena's MLS ties to the MLS he is willing to compromise to some extent with the club teams.

[OgtheDim]

I'm trying to imagine what Alseth is going to experience on Wednesday. Poor guy - two games and he goes up against Kaka & Villa. (He must be pinching himself to be this lucky). Villa has spent most of his career gunning in from the left. He's been the MVP of the league so far.

This isn't last years NYC. Much more mobile in their midfield and with a defence able to play out of the back. They are still vulnerable back there and Hamilton/Seba should have a good time. A result will be difficult but if anybody can do it, its our team.

[reggie]

looks like edwards was released from Canada s roster,we could sure use him weds night.Larin added.

[SirBobSaget]

looks like edwards was released from Canada s roster,we could sure use him weds night.Larin added.

Disappointing that Edwards didnt get àny minutes, glad to have him back for the next 2 games.

[Blindside16]

Still a winnable game but I think we shift back to a 4-4-2 for this one. It is yet again another chance to showcase our depth. I'm thinking we line up something like:

Bono
Morgan / Moor / Mavinga/Zavs / Alesth

Edwards / Cheryou / Vazquez / Delgado

Seba / Hamilton

[Fort York Redcoat]

It's funny the US wasted no time in calling for reinforcements. while Canada has still not called in any reinforcements having qualified for the quarterfinals, no announcement of a Larin yet
or anyone else. The US which has had so much more success over the years wastes no time calling in reinforcement and Canada who has been pathetic for so many years is still waiting to call anyone in, lol!

Well they seem to have waited till the round was decided. I'd love to know if there would've been a difference in the wait.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/canada-adds-experience-to-concacaf-gold-cup-squad-for-quarter-finals-p161020

Anyway

I'll be at Joe's for this one. Another game of ping pong at the Pigeon Farm.

[Graeme]

-------------------Bono------------------------
--------Zavaleta---Moor---Mavinga------------
-Hasler--Cheyrou--Delgado--Vasquez--Edwards-
------------Giovinco---Hamilton----------------

Doesn't look so bad now Edwards is back? Maybe Chapman for Cheyrou, since the Vasquez/Cheyrou experiment is pretty slow? Although the Vasq/Chapman experiment also didn't go too well...

[Canary10]

It's really annoying that MLS respected the Gold Cup while Bradley and Jozy weren't there, and now that they are, we have games again.

[ManUtd4ever]

It's really annoying that MLS respected the Gold Cup while Bradley and Jozy weren't there, and now that they are, we have games again.

This.

[Joe Kool]

With the limited players at our disposal Vanney just needs to come up with a gameplan to hold NYC at bay on that tiny little pitch for 90 min. Shouldn't be too hard right? Should be an easier pitch to park the bus on.

[Dunkers]

This.

On the bright side Bradley and Altidore got a weeks worth of rest after a very full schedule the last month and half. Which I am sure came only helped.

[fergiejr]

NYCFC are going to be deadly on that short poor excuse for a soccer pitch. AS FYR says, it will be a ping pong match for sure. Our track record there is not stellar, if you take out the playoffs last year. Look for lots of goals.

[Derko]

Happy with a tie in this one, but you never know, as commented above the Vasquez/Cheyrou combo didn't work well, but with the short pitch it might be better to that combo, thoughts, Delgado can do the most of the legwork defensively.

[Richard]

How long until NYCFC get a real stadium?

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/WheelerTSN/status/886988403178450948

Unlikely Hagglund or Hasler for Wednesday. Rapids on Saturday maybe.

[Fort York Redcoat]

How long until NYCFC get a real stadium?

Maybe when they move further out than the Bronx.

[Yohan]

Giovinco loves playing in Yankees Stadium. I think he's about due for another hat trick there

[PizzaEatingYeti]

-------------------Bono------------------------
--------Zavaleta---Moor---Mavinga------------
-Hasler--Cheyrou--Delgado--Vasquez--Edwards-
------------Giovinco---Hamilton----------------

Doesn't look so bad now Edwards is back? Maybe Chapman for Cheyrou, since the Vasquez/Cheyrou experiment is pretty slow? Although the Vasq/Chapman experiment also didn't go too well...

I cannot imagine Hasler playing already in this one.
How many days has this guy he's with TFC til the game? 5-7?

[notthesun]

Hasler might get a look according to Larson.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

How many days has this guy he's with TFC til the game? 5-7?

I know it's not something 2017 TFC would do, but isn't it nice to at least not be asking "how many hours has this guy been with TFC til the game? 5-7?" any more? (I'm thinking of Gargan)

[OgtheDim]

I don't know. Throwing a guy new to MLS into that weird bandbox where sightlines and angles are all messed up and with David Villa running right at him.

[noimpactinmtl]

I don't know. Throwing a guy new to MLS into that weird bandbox where sightlines and angles are all messed up and with David Villa running right at him.

Its really between him, Alseth, Edwards or Endoh. Delgado is our only CDM, so he's not an option.

[Auzzy]

I don't know. Throwing a guy new to MLS into that weird bandbox where sightlines and angles are all messed up and with David Villa running right at him.

The footy pitches are probably tiny in Liechtenstein as well... ;)

[ensco]

It's really annoying that MLS respected the Gold Cup while Bradley and Jozy weren't there, and now that they are, we have games again.

I know what you are saying but those guys badly needed the two weeks off. It's probably for the best.

[OgtheDim]

The Mirriam Webster word for the day is edacious - having a large apetite.

E.g. Seba will be edacious for goals.

[Graeme]

Its really between him, Alseth, Edwards or Endoh. Delgado is our only CDM, so he's not an option.

I think Edwards has to take Morrow's spot, as he's better than Morgan. Maybe Vanney will play 4 4 2 for the first half again?

[Blkndkr]

Anybody travel to the game? Any meet ups before the game?

[BenRhodes23]

Odd lineup today... Moor in right back, Alseth in left back, Morgan in midfield... Some weird stuff. I was hoping to see Endoh up top with Gio as well. They worked well together last year

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/887801958798696448

Its read as

GK
CD's
WB's
Mids
Forwards

[James17930]

Odd lineup today... Moor in right back, Alseth in left back, Morgan in midfield... Some weird stuff. I was hoping to see Endoh up top with Gio as well. They worked well together last year

??

Doesn't look like that to me. Looks like Hernandez, Moor and Mavinga as a back 3, then Alseth as the RWB and Morgan as LWB.

[69Chevy396]

Youtube stream, anyone?

[James17930]

Youtube stream, anyone?

Just out of curiosity ... did you actually try searching YouTube? They're pretty easy to find ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f6SHeXH_pI

[69Chevy396]

Just out of curiosity ... did you actually try searching YouTube? They're pretty easy to find ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f6SHeXH_pI

I do, but most, if not all, don't work, or redirect me to a bad site

[OgtheDim]

SD stream with crowd noise but not any commentary

http://theblackmamba.comlu.com/soccer3

[69Chevy396]

It works, thanks!

[molenshtain]

I think Spencer will do well on this small pitch.

[BenRhodes23]

??

Doesn't look like that to me. Looks like Hernandez, Moor and Mavinga as a back 3, then Alseth as the RWB and Morgan as LWB.

Sorry. Just noticed my mistake. The MLS app had it in a 4-4-2 and everything was shifted around/ false.

[molenshtain]

yessssss Ashtone

SPencer with a nice assist

[notthesun]

I think it was last game I asked if Morgan had ever scored a goal for us. There it is!! :D

[BenRhodes23]

First goal for Morgan! Well deserved - he's worked hard for us for years

[MightyDM]

Morgan deserves more credit and less stick than he sometimes gets. This system suits him.

[MightyDM]

Spencer not showing much so far.

[BenRhodes23]

Gio's hip looks hurt

[Auzzy]

Fuck it.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I can't believe this shit, how much f,,,ucked we are!
Seba out.
We need to have 3 teams to be able to play OK in this league!!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Richard]

A well deserved goal by Morgan, I'm happy for him.

[notthesun]

Shit, we really needed to get to half. Don't like our chances here.

[Still Kicking]

ugh, predicting an ugly, bunker down, clutch and grab second half.

[Hugh Jazz]

Just a bit before we conceded there Spencer was thrown off the ball way too easily. Second time that's happened today. His hold up needs to be better.

[Auzzy]

Crap, TFC missed two golden chances, then NYC levels on a half-chance. Plus Giovinco injured.

The announcers on the YouTube stream are pretty annoying.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Practically this is a 3rd best TFC lineup.
It will be a miracle if we escape with 1 point from this ridiculous minifotbal ground.
I'm so angry now I can hardly watch the 2nd half...

[MightyDM]

Excellent half time analysis by KJ on TSN. Time for Spencer to sit. Endoh or Hamilton in, for me.

[UpTheReds]

Spencer only served a purpose up front for Giovinco to play off a target man similar to Altidore (in size only!). Bring on Hamilton. Might as well go for it.

[Davenport]

It's not our 3rd team ! 5 starters in the best team are out there.

[OgtheDim]

Fair result so far. They are vulnerable at the back but we have been giving them way too much possession in the middle.

We are also trying too many passes across our own midfield. NYCFC eat those up because they basically sit 6 across the middle. Our best route continues to be down the wings to the wingbacks.

I get the Chapman for Giovinco move as it basically becomes a 3-4-1-1. Problem is Spencer isn't mobile enough. He can pass the ball well but he doesn't get into space.

[Davenport]

Spencer is the smallest, weakest big lad up top I've ever seen. Delgado really fooked up with their goal, he got in Cheyrou's way.

[MightyDM]

Spencer only served a purpose up front for Giovinco to play off a target man similar to Altidore (in size only!). Bring on Hamilton. Might as well go for it.

he failed to do that. Gave no hold up play whatsoever. Not writing him off, but he didn't look like he belonged on the pitch in that half.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Extremely unlucky moment that huge Seba miss.
Probably a 3 point moment - instead of being 2-0, from where I can't see New York coming back to equalize, Seba hit the ball so that he harmed himself.

[MightyDM]

Chapman!

[molenshtain]

fuck that

[Bobo]

That was my first reaction. Spencer messed that header up so bad.

[MightyDM]

It sure looked like the guy behind the play played Chapman onside.

[notthesun]

It's the correct decision, by fucking inches but it does look like Chapman was ahead of Spencer. How can Spencer not nod a ball into a wide open net???

edit: Actually I'm not sure it was correct, that side angle is incredibly deceiving because of how far back in the field it is. There's a player down on the field on the far side and he might be keeping Chapman on.

[Auzzy]

Fuck this shit.

[BenRhodes23]

I don't think that calls should be reversed that late after they happened without a video replay. Silly call.

[MightyDM]

Caldwell is correct. Spencer royally screwed that up. Unfortunate the replay camera isn't from the right angle and it isn't possible to see if Chapman was onside. The shot from above made it look like Chapman was in fact onside.

[ag futbol]

Why is spencer on the field again? Dare I say it, Hamilton is held to a much higher standard. This is a joke.

[Davenport]

Spencer, a pathetic effort, should have scored easily...now we're done.

[MightyDM]

I don't think that calls should be reversed that late after they happened without a video replay. Silly call.

Agreed

[Hugh Jazz]

NYCFC gets so many garbage goals against us. Frustrating.

[notthesun]

Take Spencer off and put in Hamilton already, come on

[SirBobSaget]

Get spencer out already he's just standing around

[khso11]

The defender on the far side was keeping Chapman on side. There's no way you can call something back this long without VR. Spencer should've scored, this game is all messed up.

[sn0re]

FFS finally Hamilton is in

[OgtheDim]

That's the pressure of VAR - they want to be seen to be getting it right before the VAR comes into play.

Oh look, its our last remaining decent forward.

[khso11]

LOL "OFFSIDE"

https://scontent.fyzd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/20205671_10155379609436425_797094434_o.png?oh=a944 1999ac6972bb80fad7d74be48902&oe=59722CB1

[Auzzy]

The YouTube stream died; MLS Live is blocked even if I set a VPN to the US. (Perhaps the game is blocked across the US?) Does anybody have another YouTube stream they can recommend?

Yeah and that's not offside. As I said, fuck this shit. I do like the way TFC is passing the ball around. Perhaps something good will come of it.

[notthesun]

They are sooooo open at the back, we're just missing quality up front to put these chances away. Why is the Gold Cup every 2 freaking years

[Couchy81]

Well well well well well.

That screenshot says it all.

[dupont]

The worst thing about that call was how late it was. Seemed more like a reaction to something than a decision based on the play

[Couchy81]

The worst thing about that call was how late it was. Seemed more like a reaction to something than a decision based on the play

Like the NYC goon squad threatening the refs? lol

[khso11]

PK!!!!!!! Where's the yellow card!?????!

[Auzzy]

Anybody home?

Anybody have a good stream they can recommend? YouTube stream died, Fox complained, and I couldn't find anything else on YouTube. I tried the other link somebody posted a few pages back (http://theblackmamba.comlu.com/soccer3) but it went nuts on my computer despite having Adblocker on.

[khso11]

Vazquezzzzzzzz!!!!!! Goallllll

[notthesun]

The YouTube stream died; MLS Live is blocked even if I set a VPN to the US. (Perhaps the game is blocked across the US?) Does anybody have another YouTube stream they can recommend?

Yeah and that's not offside. As I said, fuck this shit. I do like the way TFC is passing the ball around. Perhaps something good will come of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyWll1M07EA

[UpTheReds]

Boom.

[Auzzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyWll1M07EA

Thank you very much! I like the channel name: "Goalzy Alwayscore" -- nice! I don't always like Caldwell & Co, but what a relief after the crap US commentators.

[flatpicker]

That game was a bit of a mess.
Feels good to get out with a point.

[Shakes McQueen]

Salvaged the point - I'll take it. We got jobbed on that "offside" call.

NYCFC have Chicago next - hopefully they can cool Chicago off.

[ag futbol]

Good work by the guys in the last 20.

I'm normally a Vanney fan but he bumbled the lineup choices for this game. Spencer is not a MLS player at this point period. We would be better off with babouli. At the very least we should be starting Hamilton FFS.

And while Morgan isn't bad Edwards was the offensive catalyst that allowed us to tie the game and push NYFC back. And the only reason he even saw the field when he did was essentially by accident.

Lesson learned, I hope.

[BenRhodes23]

If Victor Vazquez were an animal... He'd be a GOAT

[Hugh Jazz]

Edwards, my goodness!

[BenRhodes23]

I was very impressed with Raheem tonight. Incredible work ethic and that pass leading to the penalty was amazing

[Hugh Jazz]

And while Morgan isn't bad Edwards was the offensive catalyst that allowed us to tie the game and push NYFC back. And the only reason he even saw the field when he did was essentially by accident.

Lesson learned, I hope.

I think one factor could be Edwards' return from the national team, Vanney probably was prepping Morgan for this game well before Raheem returned.

[notthesun]

One of our biggest results of the season IMO. Maybe the biggest.

No doubt in my mind we win this game if Giovinco doesn't go off injured, not to even mention all the other absences.

Edwards was incredible off the bench.

[ManUtd4ever]

Gutsy effort in the face of adversity. Even with a patchwork lineup, we showed tremendous resolve tonight.

[Still Kicking]

Thrilled with the point vs NYCFC.
Tough to take the post game channel change to see Bradley, Altidore and Morrow playing American.

[red-o]

2nd Spencer start - obviously he has some of the coaching staffs confidence but I don't understand why he isn't getting the minutes he needs by being subbed in instead

Super happy to get a point out of this game after the first 60.

Congrats to Morgan on his first!

Glad to see Vazquez take the point - not his best night but he is still such a key to our identity this year.

[Davenport]

Edwards, when he was finally brought on, along with Vasquez and Cheyrou were the difference tonight. The offside call on the Chapman goal was irrelevant, Spencer's attempt at defending cocked it up for us.

Can anyone tell me why Edwards isn't starting for Canada in every game they play ?

[ag futbol]

Edwards, when he was finally brought on, along with Vasquez and Cheyrou were the difference tonight. The offside call on the Chapman goal was irrelevant, Spencer's attempt at defending cocked it up for us.

Can anyone tell me why Edwards isn't starting for Canada in every game they play ?
Agreed. Why not at least try Davies and Edwards on an overlap on the left side? Could give teams fits.

[UpTheReds]

Edwards and Davies on the flanks would be lethal.

[Auzzy]

Thread title is wrong BTW. Nobody lost and nobody won. :D

[OgtheDim]

Take the point and RUN!!!!

I was shocked NYC was sitting back so much. They basically but 4 across the back and 5 in front of them and had Villa all on his own up front. Suddenly, we were able to pass it around the middle. They played into our hands. I don't know whether to call in naive on their part or what.


*******

Now...Ashtone Morgan


Guy has been THE most loyal servant to TFC we have ever had. Over 100 games going back to the dark days of 2011. The last guy left from Aron Winter.

Scores his first goal ever for TFC and caused them problems and held his own on that side for when he was on.

No freaking way I'm going to complain about him tonight. Is Edwards better, yup. But Edwards can't yet play 180 minutes in 74 hours.

Give the man his due, he did his job and on a night when we stole a point, I'll take that.


*********

Spencer can pass but he can't run. He knows where he needs to get to - he's got way more awareness of the pitch then many strikers - you can actually see him move before most strikers do towards the place he should be going to but he is so slow he has to go somewhere else after he takes about 3 steps. Maybe by next year his speed will be where it needs to be but its just not at this level right now.


***

VV is the bomb. And he can play with Cheyrou, as long as Delgado is beside them. The best AM in the league I'd say, even better for being one who roves all over the pitch.

[fergiejr]

I think the 2 dropped points were our loss and nycfc's win. Man I hate that "pitch". Watching the El Salvador vs USA game now.

[samuraizero]

Thread title is wrong BTW. Nobody lost and nobody won. :D
LOL
FAK i missed the game D: stupid work

[Red CB Toronto]

Loved that Ashtone got his first goal, will go a long way for his confidence.

[Auzzy]

I think the 2 dropped points were our loss and nycfc's win. Man I hate that "pitch". Watching the Honduras vs USA game now.

USA vs El Salvador, actually.

[fergiejr]

USA vs El Salvador, actually.
Yeah that one. ;-). I'd like to claim I have been drinking, but alas - no.

[Auzzy]

Yeah that one. ;-). I'd like to claim I have been drinking, but alas - no.

Maybe you should be! I just finished my first 1/2 liter of nice craft cider, I think I'll open the 2nd. Cheers! ("No Boats on Sunday" from Winona, ON. Good stuff!)

[Oldtimer]

Followed the game on twitter while camping. This team never gives up. Wow.

[notthesun]

Agreed. Why not at least try Davies and Edwards on an overlap on the left side? Could give teams fits.

That's what I wanted to see, but for some reason I think Zambrano only sees Edwards as an attacking winger. That's where he played vs. Curacao and he's preferred Adekugbe and De Jong at LB so far.

No disrespect to those guys but even if you think Edwards is worse defensively (which I don't even buy), he does so much good for you offensively that I can't see how you leave him out.

[Hamilton_Red]

That weakened a side & we got an away point. In days gone by that would have been a hiding.

So with no complaints....we should have had 4 or 5 goals... Giovinco's miss would have sealed that game. With our b-team playing we were still the better team. With a full squad we win that game every time.

[mowe]

Nice to get a point, but I can't help but feel we should've won. The goal looked onside but Spencer should've scored in the first place. We go up 2-1 and we're in control the rest of the way.

[General Woolfe]

I love this TFC!

After 30 minutes where we looked the better team and seemed to be cruising to a great away result that turned into the game from hell. I suppose the misses by Vazquez and Séba should have clued us in to what was coming. Losing a DP on an already depleted side, having a marginal goal overturned, only after badgering by our opponents on the linesman who saw nothing untoward initially, then giving up the lead to a side who had all the momentum, by this stage.

Still, inspired by young Raheem the Reds found a way to salvage a point, that felt like three, at the death.

I love this TFC! Tonight showed the spirit we have as a group, and it's not just star players who have us leading the league. This TFC plays as a group and it's so refreshing to see

Onwards and upwards.... :scarf:



p.s. I hope Seba's okay and his injury won't see him miss a start

[pdubs]

My only complaint is Jay Hams not starting. Spencer is a pylon.

With all our missing players ill take a road point in New York.

[UpTheReds]

Missed chances yes but at the end of the day, we'd all have been happy with a point at the start of this game. It's really not a bad result.

[Brooker]

Reaction for the penalty at the death?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Al-bundy-ed-oneill-animated-gif-2.gif

Definitely felt like a win. I have no complaints. Felt like a win and NYC felt deflated yet again at home. I'll take it.

Both clubs missed numerous chances. I'll take that kinda draw. Massive point.

[OgtheDim]

I think the 2 dropped points were our loss and nycfc's win. .

I see what you are saying in terms of the game; but in the context of the next few weeks, that point a piece is huge.

I had to remind myself today that we are almost 2/3 of the way through the season. This starts to change the thinking. Results matter more starting now because there is less time to catch up. And when you play a conference rival who is behind you, holding them from getting closer is a good thing.

NYC has Chicago on the weekend. They wanted 6 points out of these 2 games to get going on us and the Fire. Now we are still 5 ahead of them with a game against them in our park, with Bradley & Alitdore back. Even if Seba's injury is longer term and he's not there, I'll take that version of our team on our pitch in front of our supporters. So although we could still in theory end up this month behind NYC, we are just as likely to be 10 points ahead of them or more (NYC tie the Fire, we beat the Rapids and we beat NYC at home).

Oh, and what Hamilton Red said....the A team wins that game.

[Auzzy]

I just loved the way TFC started passing the ball around near the end. NY looked dead despite the tiny pitch; TFC was in control. Could easily have scored a couple more goals over the whole game.

[tfcfans]

Agree with much of what has already been said about the importance of this result overall in terms of keeping the gap between us and NYCFC, and also as a statement by the team in terms of "stepping up" under adverse circumstances and still delivering a solid road performance.....

More than anything what I observed tonight (and keep observing this season), is that this is a VERY confident team who rarely does not appear to be the better team on the pitch most games, and more importantly does not "crumble" or "turn on each other" when things don't go their way, they remain calm (minus a few Seba outbursts - ha ha) and figure it out rather than pity themselves and act petulant....from a Vasquez/Cheyrou/Moor on some nights to a Bradley/Altidore/Beita (Get Well Soon!) on other nights (and Vanney et al) - we have many leaders on this team who are just doing the job and not making excuses, that's the sign of great leadership, and in my opinion what's required to be a champion; you need to "face adversity" (like last December), "deal with adversity" - by sucking it up last winter into the spring and and then start performing night in and night out (this regular season), and then "overcoming adversity" to ultimately become champions (at some point in the 2017 playoffs they will be pushed into a difficult spot and they will have to respond).....I'm hoping that what I am seeing over the course of the last 20 games combined with last years playoffs is preparing them to do what needs to be done to take the final step - so far I've been impressed with the effort and professionalism of this group to bring it (almost) every game despite the trying circumstances sometimes (scheduling/injuries/absences)......this is a TEAM we can all be proud of.....

Good work tonight boys, keep it up!!!

[Hugh Jazz]

I'm really looking forward to the rematch with a more complete squad. Incidentally, it will be my first game at BMO in over two years. Moving out west has been rough in that regard.

[ensco]

Tremendous performances from all the Canadians tonight. Edwards, Ashtone, Hamilton, Chapman. The wrong guys are on the Gold Cup team.

[flambe]

Followed the game on twitter while camping. This team never gives up. Wow.

I'm at a northern Ontario camp resort and got a bunch of Minnesotans (sp) routing for toronto. The fact that that I'm the drunkest and loudest had nothing to do with it!! Gotta love football and the roudiness that comes with it!!

[SirBobSaget]

Awesome comeback to rescue the point but .....why is Spencer getting startsover hamilton? Only time he's useful is if you play directly to feet. He cost 3 pts as the Chapman 'goal' should have been nodded into the wide open net anyway. He's 6'5 but doesn't get involved in aerial battles and doesn't do anything for hold up. He failed to read the play so many times on whio to press on the backline, was standing still while VAzquez tried to cover. its no mystery when Hamilton went on NY were pinned back because he has more sense on how to pressure the backline.

Vanney deserves all the praise, I have all faith in him but don't quite understand why Spencer gets to leap over others who have earned it. He has floated at TFC2 as well.

[backbeat]

and Edwards can't get a minute for Canada....

but he gets stellar minutes for the best team in MLS

I love Canada's future

and TFC's...

I'll take the point but we should've had 3

Love TFC...love Canada...bring on Thursday...

[molenshtain]

Bono also very good tonight I thought. Made a couple big stops.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

19:30
New York City - Toronto FC (http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/usa/mls/new-york-city-toronto-fc-6XcEHhal/)
2:2
-139 (http://www.oddsportal.com/matches/soccer/20170719/)
+285 (http://www.oddsportal.com/matches/soccer/20170719/)
+363 (http://www.oddsportal.com/matches/soccer/20170719/)




Up here are the odds for this one, taken from 5 Dimes (1/X/2/ in this order).
As you can see, NY City was seen by the oddsmakers like a very clear favorite. Believe me, oddsmakers are not stupid!

For the draw, if you would have wagered $35.09 you would have been paid out $100.

So in light of this, we can see how precious is the point earned by TFC!
Huge point, even if most of us feel we could have won easily, because we had more clean cut chances.

Excellent performance by the whole team, except of course Spencer.
But it's not his fault that he seemed to be from another planet out there. Poor guy is simply far too weak to be played anymore any time soon, unless TFC is leading any team by at least 3 goals...then you could put him on for max 15 minutes every once in a while.

Other that that, I really do not see why the coaching staff would still force the issue with him, if there are so many other better players to get a run-out...

[James17930]

Good work by the guys in the last 20.

I'm normally a Vanney fan but he bumbled the lineup choices for this game. Spencer is not a MLS player at this point period. We would be better off with babouli. At the very least we should be starting Hamilton FFS.

And while Morgan isn't bad Edwards was the offensive catalyst that allowed us to tie the game and push NYFC back. And the only reason he even saw the field when he did was essentially by accident.

Lesson learned, I hope.

I agree - Spencer is a total pylon. Gets knocked off the ball way too easily and is so slow.

Hamilton is a much better option.

[OgtheDim]

Math shows the call was eventually right but how the call was made wasn't

https://twitter.com/OffsideModeling/status/887871809693011968

[ensco]

There were people saying three weeks ago that Morgan should never see the pitch again.

Vanney is not an idiot. He is seeing things in practice from Spencer that give him reasons to give him minutes. Plus he may have very good reasons around team dynamics, that we will never know, for witholding starts from Hamilton (and Edwards).

You don't have to have speed to play striker, remember Dichio? Lots of guys aren't burners.

Spencer had a seriously classy bing-bang assist in heavy traffic. If you want to get on Spencer for muffing the header, you can give some stick to Vasquez for missing a gimme too.

Spencer had a decent game.

[Blindside16]

I will gladly take that point and run. We managed to find a way to pull out a result with everything surrounding the team (down 8 players, Gio down hurt etc, Vanney getting tossed etc). It becomes more and more clear each game that every player on this team has a very clear objective and are willing to put in the work to achieve it. I am a little disappointed that I will be missing the return match in 10 days, but I will be watching from my hotel room in PEI.

I agree with the other posts regarding keeping the gap over the teams chasing. We are battling Chicago right now, there is no need to allow another team to jump in the race at our expense. Hopefully Chicago and NYC can draw and we can take 3 points on Saturday. If that happens we will be up 3 points on Chicago and up 7 on NYC with 13 games to go. Keep in mind the strength in schedule has us having a slightly easier schedule than the other 2 teams.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/13/strength-schedule-rankings-how-hard-your-teams-remaining-schedule

[Graeme]

Extremely unlucky moment that huge Seba miss.
Probably a 3 point moment - instead of being 2-0, from where I can't see New York coming back to equalize, Seba hit the ball so that he harmed himself.

It looked like the NYCFC player took Seba out as he was shooting to me. Not sure he would miss the goal if there wasn't that contact. Anyone else see that?

[Derko]

It looked like the NYCFC player took Seba out as he was shooting to me. Not sure he would miss the goal if there wasn't that contact. Anyone else see that?

I thought that as well watching the replay

[TFC Tifoso]

lots of positives to take from the game....most of all a road point in MLS is never easy to come by.

Great stuff to see Ashtone score....despite some of the past comments here, I for one, am always rooting for the guy.

No point of discussing offside or not.....the real discussion should be how the hell Spencer missed an open header on an open net from 6 yds out.....simply not good enough.
How old is he anyways?

Hopefully Giovinco is good to go for Saturday.

[ensco]

All this carping about Spencer, jeez.... people are spoiled. Some seem to want to pick on the reserves these days.

News flash: NYCFC are an elite team, and they have a huge home field advantage.

This was Vanney's single greatest coaching performance, and it's 100% because of what he got from reserves. I wasn't sure about Vanney the first year because it seemed to me the team was not built to do anything but give the ball to Gio and get out of the way. Boy have they put that to rest.

That first goal was incredible: it is almost impossible to execute plays in that bandbox. Where did that come from? Alseth's clever little bounce throw, Delgado with a nifty play to Spencer, Spencer with the perfect cross, Ashtone with the smooth one touch finish .... all one touch.... seriously, one of the 25 best TFC goals ever. A beautiful team goal 100% created by reserves and kids.

The credit goes to Vanney, because these guys are obviously getting fantastic work in on the training ground. They are ready to execute when given the chance.

[C.Ronaldo]

morgan for MVP, drop the mic

[TFC Tifoso]

no picking on the reserves from me....but that miss was horrible.
Its the kind of stuff that get put on blooper reels....he missed a pure gimme.....nothing more, nothing less.

Fully agree about your comments on Vanney though....but I liked him from the beginning.
Just to hear the man speak, you know he is someone who knows the game, and not just a "hit and hope" guy....I've called him a tactical nerd before, and I say it in the most complementary way...imo he's fantastic.
My big fear is hearing the commentators talk about Bruce Arena during the US game last night and saying that he's not expected to be with the team past WC 2018....could Vanney be the next guy? You gotta think people in the US Federation have their eye on him.
Ya I know he has a contract with us for a while now, but that doesn't seem to matter much in soccer nowadays....

[Fort York Redcoat]

Spencer needs more time. End of. Why we assume every player is going to walk into starting position like a DP is a bit much.

I agree with anyone wishing it was Jham to start and Spencer to sub in at 70' when (not if) we were ahead. That's about it.

My only other note was that Marky got pretty locked into 2 footed challenges right leading up to us giving up that goal.

It's a funny ole game- That Spencer miss was almost as likely as that Morgan goal. Morgan was training ground perfect on the play but looking at that face after the goal said he was as surprised as anybody he got time and space to angle that in.

Regardless, I'm over the moon for it and I expect it won't be the last time he tries it - and succeeds.:scarf:

[Canary10]

I missed the match on TV. What happened to Giovinco? Did it look serious?

[samuraizero]

I missed the match on TV. What happened to Giovinco? Did it look serious?

Didnt look crazy serious - but im not a doctor.
Twisted a bit strange, probably pinched a nerve or something

Here's the replay from highlights
https://youtu.be/UAqlqC9PC8s?t=116

[C.Ronaldo]

lots of positives to take from the game....most of all a road point in MLS is never easy to come by.

Great stuff to see Ashtone score....despite some of the past comments here, I for one, am always rooting for the guy.

No point of discussing offside or not.....the real discussion should be how the hell Spencer missed an open header on an open net from 6 yds out.....simply not good enough.
How old is he anyways?

Hopefully Giovinco is good to go for Saturday.

i dont think he missed, but it was a poor decision to pass it. hopefully he learns from that one

good to see hamilton get involved again. amazing how much respect these guys have for cheyrou. hamilton wanted that PK, but cheyrou makes the call with no 2nd guesses

[TFC Tifoso]

Spencer needs more time. End of. Why we assume every player is going to walk into starting position like a DP is a bit much.

It's a funny ole game- That Spencer miss was almost as likely as that Morgan goal. Morgan was training ground perfect on the play but looking at that face after the goal said he was as surprised as anybody he got time and space to angle that in.

Regardless, I'm over the moon for it and I expect it won't be the last time he tries it - and succeeds.:scarf:

I'm not expecting Spencer to play at a DP level....in fact, he made a nice cross on the first goal for sure.....but on the other hand I don't think its to much to ask for any player at that level to score on an open header in an open net from 6 yds out.
Here's hoping we see a more complete player with time, because his size is amazing and you can't teach that!

Soooo happy for Morgan last night!


i dont think he missed, but it was a poor decision to pass it. hopefully he learns from that one

good to see hamilton get involved again. amazing how much respect these guys have for cheyrou. hamilton wanted that PK, but cheyrou makes the call with no 2nd guesses

nah he had to have whiffed on it....

[shwade]

Bono was HUGE. Agreed about Spencer..no reason why he should be starting over Hamilton. Hate to say it cuz Vanney and co have been stellar..but they seem to give chances (and second chances) to Americans easier than our Canadian boys.

[Joe Kool]

I didn't read all the pages of this game thread so not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but I thought Hernandez was a monster last night. I was really impressed. He relentlessly broke up NYC plays over and over. Maybe he had a little incentive given the team he was playing against. A good effort by our bench guys. I too was hoping for Hamilton to start over Spencer but I understand what Vanney was trying to do having a taller hold-up player with Giovinco up top. The ref did all he could to give NYC the win but our guys persevered. Edwards made a great impact when he came on. Bono played great too when he had to. If that is NYC's full lineup we have nothing to fear from them if we play them again with our full lineup. Imagine if Bradley, Altidore, and Morrow were out there for us and Seba did not get injured? Another 5-0 win? Maybe. Happy enough with a point on the road on a crappy pitch with poor reffing.

[molenshtain]

Bono was HUGE. Agreed about Spencer..no reason why he should be starting over Hamilton. Hate to say it cuz Vanney and co have been stellar..but they seem to give chances (and second chances) to Americans easier than our Canadian boys.

I think this is sort of a bogus narrative. are there any other instances where Vanney has done a similar thing? I can't think of one.

[ag futbol]

All this carping about Spencer, jeez.... people are spoiled. Some seem to want to pick on the reserves these days.

News flash: NYCFC are an elite team, and they have a huge home field advantage.

This was Vanney's single greatest coaching performance, and it's 100% because of what he got from reserves. I wasn't sure about Vanney the first year because it seemed to me the team was not built to do anything but give the ball to Gio and get out of the way. Boy have they put that to rest.

That first goal was incredible: it is almost impossible to execute plays in that bandbox. Where did that come from? Alseth's clever little bounce throw, Delgado with a nifty play to Spencer, Spencer with the perfect cross, Ashtone with the smooth one touch finish .... all one touch.... seriously, one of the 25 best TFC goals ever. A beautiful team goal 100% created by reserves and kids.

The credit goes to Vanney, because these guys are obviously getting fantastic work in on the training ground. They are ready to execute when given the chance.
Can't say I particularly agree. I guess you can credit spencer for putting that ball back across but his play as a whole was far from great. We have players within our squad that are more deserving of that playing time and created a bigger impact on the field.

The bottom line here is if Edwards doesn't come on the field we lose 2-1. The fact Edwards made the field appears to be dumb luck more than anything.

Now that said, I don't think Vanney is a terrible coach or suddenly deeply flawed but his decisions on the day were frustrating. I think that can be said without suddenly losing sight of the teams overall performance over the past 18 months or so.

[ag futbol]

Spencer needs more time. End of. Why we assume every player is going to walk into starting position like a DP is a bit much.

He does need more time, for TFC II in the USL. Putting him ahead of Hamilton is unjust.

[ensco]

I was at field level for the game in Ottawa in June. It was obvious that Vanney was very unhappy with the focus/effort of both Hamilton and Edwards in that game.

I suspect those guys are being sent a message.

[Still Kicking]

Math shows the call was eventually right but how the call was made wasn't

trouble with the pic is that I am not seeing the ball, so I am unsure that it shows the position of Chapman at the time of the ball being headed by Spencer...

[TFC Tifoso]

Vanney has said many times that he will pick the players who trained the best in the follow up to any particular game....if that meant Spencer before Hamilton for last night than so be it...

I also think that for last night specifically, he chose the players who went through preparations for the game with the team, as opposed to NT returnees (Edwards)....I'm not quite sure exactly when Edwards returned to TFC from the Gold Cup, but that may be the reason.

Look it, we got a point, on the road, in one of the tougher places to earn one.....I'll take it all day.... now let's get 3 points for Saturday on the menu!

[TheGoodson]

Can't say I particularly agree. I guess you can credit spencer for putting that ball back across but his play as a whole was far from great. We have players within our squad that are more deserving of that playing time and created a bigger impact on the field.

The bottom line here is if Edwards doesn't come on the field we lose 2-1. The fact Edwards made the field appears to be dumb luck more than anything.

Now that said, I don't think Vanney is a terrible coach or suddenly deeply flawed but his decisions on the day were frustrating. I think that can be said without suddenly losing sight of the teams overall performance over the past 18 months or so.

Who deserves more time with the squad that we fielded last night?

Spencer is the only target striker that we have outside of Altidore. Hamilton is not that player and will never be that player.

[notthesun]

I don't really agree with that. Spencer may appear to be a more prototypical target forward and there's no doubt that is how the coaching staff sees him, but Hamilton routinely provides better target forward play. He makes clever movements in the box to get himself a yard for crosses and he's more dogged in protecting the ball. His play to earn the penalty was textbook target striker stuff: run off the shoulder of the defender, take the ball down, and get between it and the man to force him into a risky tackle.

I don't think Spencer has been that bad, he's been okay. But Hamilton is clearly a more effective player overall, and I'd argue myself more effective in the specific role the coaching staff wants Spencer to play too. I don't disagree with Vanney on much but with Ricketts and Altidore gone, Hamilton should be starting every game right now.

[KurtLarSUN]

Math shows the call was eventually right but how the call was made wasn't

https://twitter.com/OffsideModeling/status/887871809693011968

The problem with this photo is it doesn't tell us the exact location of the ball, rendering the math useless.
Is the ball touching Spencer's head? Has the ball already come off Spencer's head? We can't tell because Spencer's head is in the way.
This play happened so fast that inches make a difference.

[MightyDM]

The problem with this photo is it doesn't tell us the exact location of the ball, rendering the math useless.
Is the ball touching Spencer's head? Has the ball already come off Spencer's head? We can't tell because Spencer's head is in the way.
This play happened so fast that inches make a difference.

its also the wrong photo. Would be interesting to see the modelling from the overhead view.

also, by definition, the call was wrong. The linesman did not see an offside, nor did the referee. So they cannot later change the call and be certain, it isn't possible because the moment has gone. So for example, if the linesman (A/ R) was asked " wasn't Chapman ahead of Spencer?", he possibly might remember whether he was or wasn't but cannot evaluate other things, like the timing of the header, the location of the NYC player behind Chapman, etc. They have to be done as the play happened, and when it did he did not see an offside. Very very unprofessional.

[MightyDM]

Oh and one minor thing: does anyone know why Ashtone Morgan got a yellow for being hit on the head? He was sufficiently hurt to leave the game. Seemed odd.

[General Woolfe]

The problem with this photo is it doesn't tell us the exact location of the ball, rendering the math useless.
Is the ball touching Spencer's head? Has the ball already come off Spencer's head? We can't tell because Spencer's head is in the way.
This play happened so fast that inches make a difference.
The issue for me was neither the ref nor the linesman saw anything wrong with the goal when it happened It was only when the linesman was badgered by NYCFC players he signaled to the ref, who ultimately reversed the call. I agree with Vanney if it was so tight neither official saw a problem in live play, you can't have them change their minds based on the protestations of the New York players

We wuz robbed!!

[Derko]

The issue for me was neither the ref nor the linesman saw anything wrong with the goal when it happened It was only when the linesman was badgered by NYCFC players he signaled to the ref, who ultimately reversed the call. I agree with Vanney if it was so tight neither official saw a problem in live play, you can't have them change their minds based on the protestations of the New York players

We wuz robbed!!

Yep, MLS is still trying to manipulate results to end up with that elusive NY vs LA final aren't they.

[Gazza_55]

Yep, MLS is still trying to manipulate results to end up with that elusive NY vs LA final aren't they.

This is sarcasm right?

[OgtheDim]

On another note:

https://twitter.com/Eric_Giacometti/status/888437279915692032

[Derko]

This is sarcasm right?

Of course